Doppelgängers, The Uncanny Valley, and Black Eyed Kids

Summary

Podcast Summary: Haunted Cosmos

Episode: Doppelgängers, The Uncanny Valley, and Black Eyed Kids
Hosts: Ben Garrett & Brian Sauvé
Guest: Josh
Date: October 15, 2025

---

Main Theme

This episode of Haunted Cosmos' "Graveyard Shift" dives into unsettling firsthand accounts of high strangeness, focusing primarily on doppelgängers, the unsettling phenomenon of the uncanny valley, and Black Eyed Kids. The guest, Josh—a longtime listener and supporter—joins Ben and Brian to share his most haunting, personal experiences with the paranormal, ranging from chilling childhood encounters to adult brushes with the unexplained.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Josh’s Introduction and Context [00:48–04:24]

• Josh introduces himself as a devoted listener and supporter ("Our guy Josh" [02:04, Brian]), and shares how his children also enjoy select episodes.
• He names "Hat Man" and "Sleep Paralysis" as his favorite, most impactful Haunted Cosmos episodes, referencing deep-seated fears such themes evoke.

---

2. Encounter #1: The Childhood Doppelgänger and the Uncanny Valley

Josh’s detailed story of a terrifying, humanoid entity experienced in childhood.
[09:04–16:20]

• Setting: Age 10, Josh moved into his own basement bedroom, with a view into a dim laundry room for comfort.

• The Incident:

  • One night, Josh became consumed by intense dread, deciding to face the door (preparing to escape to his parents if necessary).
  • He saw a creature crawling into the doorframe on all fours, “kind of sidestepping,” and looking almost but not quite like his younger sister, with “dark, evil, glaring look on its face.” [11:07, Josh]
  • The entity locked eyes, projecting palpable hatred and intent to harm.

    “It's just staring me down. I can just feel this tension and like it hates me, it wants me dead, it wants me gone.” [11:26, Josh]

  • Feeling trapped and immobilized by terror, Josh hid under his blankets, hearing unnatural, “almost robotic” breathing and the thing shuffling closer.
  • The entity entered his room, slamming the door behind it—Josh’s screams finally brought his parents, at which point the experience ended.

• Verification & Shared Trauma:

  • Years later, Josh’s brother recounted a nearly identical experience: being terrorized by an entity resembling their sister, “hunting him and trying to catch him.”

    “That was the same thing that looked oddly like our sister hunting him and trying to catch him.” [13:44, Josh]

• Notable Analysis:

  • The hosts compare this to the “Kakowski intruder” legend—multiple siblings sharing nightmarish, almost identical supernatural experiences, often without initially realizing it.

The Uncanny Valley Theory [15:02–16:02]

• Ben references Freud’s essays on the “uncanny,” highlighting the unique human terror at things that seem almost human but are just “off.”

  “The most horrifying thing that you can ever see is something that looks so much like a human, but you know that it's not.” [15:20, Ben]

• Brian summarizes: “That is a seed of terror for mankind.” [15:33, Ben]

---

3. Encounter #2: Apparition on the Road – Black Eyed Child

Josh’s direct run-in with a possible Black Eyed Kid.
[21:23–25:22]

• Incident Overview:
  • Driving home at night on a rural Utah highway, Josh slows for a young child riding a bike along a dangerous section—"Really odd place for a bike to be." [22:06, Josh]
  • As he slows, the child veers directly in front of his truck and disappears beneath it. Josh slams the brakes, gets out—but there is no child or bike, only an “unnatural, dead silence.”

    “It's completely silent. Like dark, heavy silence, can't hear anything.” [22:37, Josh]

  • Later, his wife asks if he noticed the child had no eyes; this detail only surfaced in his memory after listening to the Haunted Cosmos episode on Black Eyed Kids.
• Atmospheric Notes:
  • Josh describes the profound abnormality of the silence—“like you go into a sound booth,” unable to hear even the running engine. [25:21, Josh]
• Host Commentary:
  • Ben notes the rarity of such impactful hallucinations in adulthood, reinforcing the abnormal nature of his experience.

---

4. Interpreting the Uncanny, Fear, and Spiritual Realities

Hosts discuss materialist vs. biblical explanations for the uncanny valley and existential dread.
[25:47–32:27]

• Freud’s (materialist) view: Human evolution programmed us to be especially afraid of things almost, but not quite, human—an instinct to avoid danger.

• Biblical fringe theory: This “sense” may come from an ancient need to avoid nonhuman entities—e.g., fallen angels/nephilim (“Genesis 6:4, the sons of God…” [27:32, Ben]), who could appear “almost human.”

  “The offspring that is produced is uncanny… almost human or it's part human, but it's not actually human…” [28:05, Ben]

  • This could explain a divinely-implanted human aversion: “If you actually care about righteousness or life or whatever… there were demons running around posing as human beings.” [28:22, Ben]

• On Black Eyed Kids/demonic deception:

  Brian: “So Black Eyed Children, little demon creatures… like, trying to—What are they trying to do? Because they're always trying to get in.” [29:25]

  • Ben theorizes that different fallen spirits employ different strategies, from overt terror (the uncanny) to alluring benevolence, all aimed at undermining mankind.

---

5. Encounter #3: Shared Sleep Paralysis Experience

Josh describes a joint episode with his wife—lending credibility to the reality of the supernatural.
[35:31–37:49]

• Incident:
  • While staying at a friend’s house, Josh feels overwhelming dread and paralysis in a dark basement bedroom.
  • Senses a presence in the doorway; wife, asleep, starts exhibiting distress—rapid breathing, twitching.
  • He finally breaks free enough to call out to Jesus, after which the presence subsides and both “felt it lift”; wife wakes terrified, confirming the experience was shared, not imagined.

    “That one was one where it was like, there are two people here that experienced it in different ways.” [37:48, Josh]

---

6. Practical Reflections and Encouragement

Hosts and Josh encourage listeners to treat such feelings of dread or uncanny terror seriously, not as mere imagination.
[37:49–42:23]

• “If you ever find yourself in a situation where you feel a sudden onset feeling of existential dread, get out of that situation, call upon the name of Christ, ask Him to help you.” [38:34, Ben]
• “It's never a bad idea to call upon the Lord.” [38:52, Brian]

Host and Listener Stories of Fear as Warning [39:12–42:23]

• Both Ben and Brian share their own experiences—overwhelming, irrational terror while alone in nature—describing it as a possible divine warning or protective measure.

  “Like, you will die painfully if you take another step.” [43:15, Brian]

• Comparison made to “Balaam’s donkey”—sometimes dread is the only warning we pick up on.

---

7. Paranormal Encounters as Spiritual Warfare

The hosts continually frame these experiences as spiritual in nature, reinforcing the power and importance of calling on Christ.

• “Just another example of…the supremacy of Christ, calling upon the name of Christ.” [43:38, Ben]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The central horror of the uncanny:

  “The most horrifying thing that you can ever see is something that looks so much like a human, but you know that it's not.”
  [15:20, Ben]

• On existential dread:

  “Like, my vehicle motor is still running and I can't hear that. That's just completely gone, insanely creepy.”
  [25:45, Brian]

• On shared supernatural experience:

  “That one was one where it was like, there are two people here that experienced it in different ways.”
  [37:48, Josh]

• Repeated advice:

  “Call upon the Lord. That is always the right response.”
  [39:11, Ben]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Josh’s Childhood Doppelgänger Story: [09:04–16:20]
• Shared Sibling Experience: [13:44, Josh]
• Kakowski Intruder Recap & Analysis: [17:19–19:44]
• Uncanny Valley Discussion: [14:47–16:20]
• Black Eyed Kid Road Encounter: [21:23–25:22]
• Zone of Fear / Existential Dread Discourse: [25:22–32:27]
• Joint Sleep Paralysis With Wife: [35:31–37:49]
• Practical Guidance: [37:49–42:23]
• Wrap Up and Christ’s Supremacy: [43:38–43:58]

---

Conclusion

Josh’s chilling stories are powerfully contextualized by both personal and philosophical insights from the hosts, exploring overlapping themes of doppelgängers, the uncanny valley, and Black Eyed Kids. The discussion merges personal testimony, supernatural folklore, and theological reflection, ultimately urging listeners to take their own spiritual intuition seriously and to rely on Christ when faced with inexplicable—and often terrifying—encounters.

---

"If you ever find yourself in a situation where you feel a sudden onset feeling of existential dread, get out of that situation, call upon the name of Christ, ask Him to help you. But don't just ignore it and brush it off as like, oh, I'm just in my own head."
– Ben, [38:34]

Transcript

[Ben]

This episode is brought to you by Indigo Sundry Soap company Clean soap cleaner body. In this episode of the Graveyard Shift, we hear from a good friend about some wild paranormal encounters that he had all through his life, including the uncanny valley and potentially a black eyed kid.

[Josh]

Tune in and I start to see something edge into my frame of view on all fours. Nope, kind of sidestepping. And it looks almost oddly like my who would have been okay.

[Brian]

Artist recreation.

[Josh]

Veers directly in front of my truck. See the kid disappear underneath the vehicle. When you saw in the headlights as you were getting ready to hit this kid that he almost looked like he had no eyes.

[Ben]

This fallen angel. And then the offspring that is produced is uncanny, almost human. Or it's part human, but it's not actually foreign. Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Graveyard Shift where we hear from listeners some of the craziest stories that they've ever had in their lives, whether it's high strangeness, paranormal, supernatural. And we are joined today by a special guest named Josh. We're going to hear some fascinating stories from him. But first let me take the opportunity to introduce my co host, Mr. Brian.

[Brian]

S. Man, it is so good to be here. Ben, can I just say, Can I just say that you have never looked handsomer than you do in this moment?

[Ben]

Man, I appreciate that. I needed that. I've recently been really self conscious about my hair. No, because it's thinning so bad you all can't see the top of my head. But if you could, you would be blinded.

[Brian]

You will look better bald than any other man looks. Fully haired.

[Ben]

I just don't. I just don't believe you.

[Brian]

Some people are without hair.

[Ben]

I just don't. Will Smith's husband.

[Brian]

Will Smith's husband.

[Ben]

Anyway, how about we let Josh say hello to the audience. Josh, why don't you introduce yourself for us?

[Josh]

I'm Josh, long listener to Haunted Cosmos. Started out right from the first episodes. Got onto the Patreon. Really love, really you're doing. Yes.

[Ben]

Oh, thank you.

[Brian]

Our guy. Our guy Josh.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Be like Josh.

[Ben]

He, you, you have some children. Do your kids like listening to Hana Cosmos?

[Josh]

They do, yeah. We're somewhat selective about some of the episodes that we let them listen to. Most of it like our oldest is absolutely major fan.

[Brian]

Good.

[Josh]

We're not listening to a book this time. Let's listen to Haunted Cosmos.

[Ben]

Forget the books, man.

[Brian]

They're worthless. Do you have a favorite episode?

[Josh]

I do, yeah. I guess it's kind of a toss up because for me there are two that were really impactful. First being the stories with hat man in it.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh]

Kind of terrifying. Yeah. The other being sleep paralysis. Different. Various times dealing with certain things kind of along those same lines. So that one struck me a little hard. When you're listening to it at 9 o' clock at night in the vehicle with the family and then you try to go get out of the vehicle, it's like, that's not a good idea. Hey, man in the van.

[Ben]

That sounds like a skill issue on your part.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Ben]

That's just bad planning. That's just bad planning. Yeah.

[Brian]

No, that's great.

[Ben]

Thank you. First of all, thank you for supporting the show. Thank you for listening to the show. And we're good friends with you. We know Josh, we go way back and honestly I didn't know until I reached out to you a few weeks ago that you would have had any stories like this. And you sent me an email that was like a few, kind of a few quick high level summaries of what you've seen and experienced. And I was absolutely blown away. So I'm really excited actually, to just hear from Josh.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And get an idea of the, the, the profound experiences that you've had kind of in this realm. Yeah.

[Brian]

I like it for people to know that it's not like that we didn't even know this because it's. Some people, they, they talk a lot about like this or that high strangeness thing or this ghost story and you're always like a little bit.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Did that happen? I don't know. But when you know a guy and then you also know like, and we know you're trustworthy and reliable and all those things. Honorable man. But also then you know, and a Christian, that's very important, like a member Christian. We, we know you well through that. But then also like, you're not always talking about this stuff. It's not just like a constant, you know. Well, let me one up the guy at the campfire or something like that. I think it's good for listeners to know that.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

That you're a reliable guy. You know, we can trust it.

[Ben]

It reminds me a lot of something that Dwayne the Rock Johnson once said, which is let other people tell you that you're great. Now, this doesn't apply to your situation literally at all. But just to your point about not constantly talking about how terrible of things that you've seen in the demonic realm, but when you're asked, you pull out the trump card and you're basically Neil Armstrong.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Ben]

Hey, well, I walked on the moon. I walked on the moon. If you believe in the moon. If you believe in the moon.

[Brian]

If you believe in that kind of thing.

[Ben]

Yeah. Anyway, should we just let Josh take away.

[Brian]

Do you have any other. Yeah, tell us. Tell us your story. Whatever order pace you want to go. We might ask a few questions, but mainly we just want to hear from you, Brian.

[Ben]

I got bad news the other day. I was using one of the big box soap products to wash myself, and I got this weird urge to go buy a Stanley cup and fill it with iced coffee. And it started to feel a little cold in the house. I just wanted to wrap myself up in, like, a heavy wool blanket. And then also I started googling ticket prices to Taylor Swift concerts.

[Brian]

Ben, what are you doing? Don't you know that these big box soap companies just jam all their soaps full of hormone disrupting chemicals? They're probably turning you into a girl.

[Ben]

Well, I know that now, but what am I supposed to do about it?

[Brian]

Ben, you ignorant Normie. All you've needed to do is go to indigosundrysoap.com and support a great Christian family business that's making all sorts of soaps that are completely free of hormone disrupting chemicals and other nasties.

[Ben]

Okay, I am literally going to indigosundrysoap.com right now. Tell me what to buy.

[Brian]

Ben, What I would recommend doing is clicking on bundles and then selecting the best one for you. You could get the men's six pack. You could get my favorite, the clay bundle.

[Ben]

Ooh, I like the pipe and jug bundle. That seems cool. Or a men's six pack, because that'll make me feel like I have something that I actually don't.

[Brian]

So true, King. And you know what else I heard? Because they're such good friends of the show, Indigo Sundries Soap Company is offering 10% off your order if you just use one. All caps, discount code, Haunted Cosmos, no spaces.

[Ben]

Wait, Brian, you're going way too fast. I didn't get all that. Is that information in the show description?

[Brian]

Ben, you ignorant Normie. It's always in the show description.

[Ben]

Okay, so I'm going to go to indigosundrysoap.com I'm going to pick the men's six pack bundle, and I'm going to use code Haunted Cosmos at checkout. All caps, no spaces. And if I forgot all that, it's in the description of the show.

[Brian]

Of course, Ben. And if you just do that, then you will stop wanting to do all of those girly things and maybe you'll I don't know, maybe want to buy a classic car to restore or something dignified.

[Ben]

How many demons, ghosts or vampires are lurking in your investment portfolio? If you're invested in the S&P 500, it's probably more than you think since it's full of companies that actively oppose your faith. Stonecrop Wealth Advisors is here to help their faith based portfolios redirect your hard earned dollars away from destructive agendas and into companies making a positive impact on society. Get the demons out of your portfolio and invest in God's kingdom while you grow your wealth. Contact Stonecrop Wealth Advisors today by visiting StoneCropAdvisors.com Haunted Cosmos investment advisory services offered through StoneCrop Wealth Advisors LLC, a registered investment advisor with the U.S. securities and Exchange Commission.

[Brian]

The nighttime is crawling with dangerous creatures. Bigfoot, Sleep paralysis demons. The Mothman. Now imagine what would make them even more terrifying. That's right, guns. Cryptids with guns. That's where Armored Republic comes in. They equip law abiding citizens to stand against the unthinkable. Even if it's a gun wielding devil worshiping Bigfoot. From combat tested coatings to high performance carriers, every piece of their ballistic armor and tactical gear is built to protect. Visit armoredrepublic.com or text join all CAPS J O I n to 88027 to get involved in the preparedness effort. Man, Ben, I knew we were handsome, but I didn't know we were that handsome until I saw our recent Haunted Cosmos thumbnails.

[Ben]

Yeah, your skin looks so velvety smooth.

[Brian]

I mean it's unbelievable. Chris at New Dominion Design Company did an absolutely fantastic job not only on those thumbnails but on our recent book cover as well.

[Ben]

Yeah, exactly. And if you need some design work from Chris, you should go to newdominondesignco.com get started there and he'll serve you right, man.

[Brian]

He will make you look 50% as handsome as Ben. Guaranteed.

[Josh]

And so this is a story that I haven't really told a whole lot of people, maybe four or five people over time. But when I was about 10 years old we were living in a house. We just moved into a house a few years before and in this space, all of the bedrooms, the main bedroom that all of us kids slept in. I have three younger siblings and all four of us shared a room up on the third level. So you had your kitchen main space on the main on the middle floor and then down in the basement at a TV room, laundry room, one bedroom And a pantry, really kind of small space that I got moved down to the basement bedroom on my own. 10 years old, pretty excited, get my own room for the first time. It's a pretty big space, but still decided, you know, it's my first time in my own room and I want to be close to the door. So had my bed set up in a corner of the room where I could see directly out the door into the laundry room where we would always keep a fluorescent light turned on so that it wasn't completely dark and there wasn't really opportunity for night lights and stuff. I mean this is 100 years ago. So like night lights are really a big thing.

[Ben]

Stegosaurus as we're walking around outside.

[Josh]

So as I'm trying to fall asleep one night, I'm feeling really unnerved, like just nervous down to my bones. Can't figure out what's going on. Decide that I'm going to roll over and face towards the door so that I can start planning my escape. Get up to my parents bedroom on the second floor. And as I roll over, that nervous feeling just grows in strength completely to the point that I'm almost frozen, locked up, looking down out into the laundry room where the light's on. And I start to see something edge into my frame of view framed by the door. And as it comes into view, it's this thing on all fours kind of sidestepping as it's coming into view. And it looks oddly like my sister, who would have been, who would have been about 6 years old at this point in time. When I say it looked oddly like her, it's like the, the features were just off enough that it wasn't her and kind of just a dark, evil, glaring look on its face. And through as it came into view, it starts locking eyes with me and it's just staring me down. And I can just feel this, this tension and like it hates me, it wants me dead, it wants me gone. But as it comes into view, like my thought beforehand was I'm gonna get to mom and dad. It comes into view now and it's almost like it's not necessarily telepathically, but it's like the, the feeling of I'm in the way. You can't get to mom and dad, they can't get to you. You're stuck. This is it. And so I just kind of sat there staring at this thing thinking this has to be fake, this can't be real. Something, something's wrong in my own head. But I'm 10 years old, so I don't really know any of that kind of stuff. Finally decide blankets are the best thing in the world. I'm just going to put it over my head. Everything's going to go away. It's going to be fine. Put the blanket over my head and wait for I don't know how long. It felt like eons. And as I'm laying there kind of trying to calm my own nerves, I can hear what sounds like breathing. No, dude, but it's not breathing. Like something is just barely off about it. And it's just continuously going. I haven't heard anything move.

[Ben]

And you're still under the covers.

[Josh]

Yeah. And this, this continues to go on for a while with this kind of almost robotic sound of breathing. And eventually start hearing it shuffle and move. No, it's coming towards my bedroom.

[Ben]

And for that reason I'm out.

[Josh]

And so it continues to edge towards my bedroom. The fear is just continuously expanded. I can't move at all. I'm locked in fear. Eventually comes into my bedroom and slams the door behind it. At that point, I started screaming as loud as I can. A couple of screams go by, and then finally mom and dad barge through the door, switch the lights on, jump into my dad's arms, crying uncontrollably. Can't. Can't even talk. Dad's trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah, I can't tell him anything. And I'm not even sure to this day if I ever really told him what I saw, what I experienced then. But Dad's trying to calm and reassure the way that any father would like. It's probably just a bad dream. We're going to be okay. We're going to pray. Everything's going to be all right. It never really said anything more than that. Couple of things to note with it. Well, I guess after this point, my younger brother, they decided to move him into the bedroom with me. Everything was fine. When you've got company, it's not going to happen anymore. And really didn't have anything extreme happen after that point. But years later, my brother and I were kind of recounting some of these different odd things that we've experienced through life of spiritual natures or whatever else. And that story came up and he told one that was very similar. That was the same thing that looked oddly like our sister hunting him and trying to catch him. Trying to give him complete fear situations.

[Brian]

What?

[Ben]

Dude, that's like the Kakowski.

[Brian]

It's exactly like the Kakashi.

[Ben]

I don't want to derail us right now. But that.

[Brian]

Have we talked about that?

[Ben]

I think so. I think in an episode. In an episode. But I didn't want to derail us, but I just.

[Brian]

So I don't. It is exactly like the Kakowski dude.

[Ben]

That's crazy. So let me ask you this. Like, your door was open when you went to bed, and then your dad had to open the door?

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So that wasn't in your head?

[Josh]

No.

[Ben]

Like, the door slammed shut. Yeah, dude, that is.

[Brian]

And it slammed itself in with you. It didn't leave and close the door. It came in and closed the door.

[Josh]

The door was an inward swinging door. So in order for it to slam.

[Ben]

It would have had to be inside.

[Josh]

It had been from inside.

[Brian]

That.

[Ben]

So here. Here's some of the things that I think that it's. Maybe it's Carl Jung. Maybe it's Freud. It's. Freud talks about the.

[Brian]

Ben's about to bring up Rene Girard.

[Ben]

No, I'm not gonna bring up. Not yet.

[Brian]

Or Edmund Freud.

[Ben]

I'm not bringing up Sigmund Freud.

[Brian]

I'm sorry, I said Edmund Freud. What is his cousin.

[Ben]

I'm not bringing up Rene Girard yet.

[Josh]

Okay.

[Brian]

He's gonna. I'm just letting you know he's gonna do it.

[Ben]

But Freud brings up the terror of the uncanny a lot. Like, he wrote a whole series of essays on.

[Brian]

Is that where the uncanny valley.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Comes.

[Ben]

Where it came from. He really, like, posited this idea that the most horrifying thing that you can ever see is something that looks so much like a human, but you know that it's not.

[Brian]

That is creepy.

[Ben]

Whether by the way that it moves or by just some thing in the face or some sense that you have, you're like, that is definitely not a human being, but it really is trying to look like one. And how that for some reason like, that is this seed of terror for mankind. And anyway, obviously that that's plays a role in this because it looked like your sister.

[Josh]

Right.

[Brian]

That's great.

[Ben]

But it was on all fours and it, like, shuffled to the side like a crab.

[Brian]

Yeah, dude, that's Recreate Artist recreation.

[Ben]

Why did it start growling?

[Brian]

Dude, I don't know. This is what I'm picturing.

[Ben]

That's really. That's really scary. Okay, so you're family at the time was Christian. Your dad came in and prayed for you. Were you raised in a Christian home?

[Josh]

Yeah, we were raised in a Pentecostal Assemblies of God church. Okay. When I say before, like, we. My brother and I both and my sister and my youngest brother, all four of us have dealt with different things along these lines. Like we've all told different stories to each other of things like sleep paralysis and things like that. That just seemed kind of odd. We didn't know anything about it beforehand. Not sure whether or not to assume that it came from it, but being in a hyper charismatic, hyper spiritualist church, like the spiritual battle, this is something you're going to have to engage with. Like, I remember vividly at one point in time as a teenager, praying, God, make me a warrior for a spirit warrior. Let me see my enemy that's coming against me. And actually seeing really, really odd things after that point in time. And I'm not sure where that lays into it or plays into it, but it was just interesting that all four of us had had similar ish experiences, but my brother and I having one that was almost identical.

[Brian]

That's wild.

[Ben]

Yeah. So maybe, maybe we should tell people, remind people about the Kakowski intruder. There was this story of a brother and sister, and I'm probably going to get the details wrong, so feel free to interrupt me, but. She remembered sleeping in her room. Her brother was older than her.

[Brian]

Like 8 years old.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, like a lot older. Which is why they didn't talk about this for a long time. They just didn't have that close of a relationship. But she was sleeping in her room upstairs, kind of single hallway, you know, and she remembers waking up with sleep paralysis one night. And she knew that there was like she could see through the POV of the sleep paralysis demon that was coming down the hallway to her room.

[Brian]

It was like she was seeing. It's from its eyes.

[Ben]

Yes. And she knew that it was coming to her room. But she's awake. Like she just can't move. She hears. Yeah. Kind of some movement. And then she sees it open the door, and she sees it close the door from its perspective. And then she can start to see this thing out of her periphery. Then it kind of gets up on the bed and is like looming over her, this like dark demonic presence. And I don't totally remember how it ends. I think that maybe she just finally suddenly is able to move enough or.

[Brian]

It'S like she blacks out or something.

[Ben]

Blacks out and then kind of wakes up in a, in a fright, but then falls back asleep right away. Like just, you know, her, she. She's not even recognizing how terrifying of a thing this was until the next morning.

[Brian]

She describes it as a recurring dream.

[Ben]

Yes, it happened many, many times in.

[Brian]

The dream, she's waking up in bed. And then this whole sequence would play out night after night after night.

[Ben]

Now, when this is happening to her, her brother was so much older that he was away at college. And before he left for college, he would sleep in the same room. Yep, I would have room. Yeah, it was his room. She was sleeping in a different upstairs room. So anyway, later, like much later in life, this is decades past. They're both comedy writers, they're in the same industry, and they're comedy writers for a show. And they're out, like at a party or whatever after wrapping a season, and they just start telling ghost stories. And her brother starts sharing this experience that he had that was literally shot for shot the same room.

[Brian]

Hey, this happened. And she's like, are you kidding me?

[Ben]

She starts weeping in the middle of this party because she's like, you too. So they start talking and turns out that he had experienced the same thing, recurring sleep paralysis, nightmare for years. Seeing the same being. His was a little different, though. And I think that this is right. The added wrinkle with him was that since she was also upstairs, but in a different room, he remembers the POV stopping at her room and him telling it, no, don't go in there, just come to my room. So he's kind of like protecting his little sister. And that was like the added wrinkle that just totally blew her away. But then this being just got in the mode of, like, that's the room. I'm finally going to find the girl in that room, you know, after tormenting this, this young man for so many years. But it's crazy how that lines up with your experience with your little brother, who saw a similar thing, if not the exact same thing. Now, another question that I had for you was when you were looking at it before you went under the covers, you were able to see it, like, in the center of your field of vision. Like, so it wasn't only looming on the periphery, which is another big thing. Like, people say I see it and then I look and it's not there. But this was like full blown, right in the middle.

[Josh]

I was. The way I was laying down in my bed on my side looking out the door. The door was perfectly framed and it was standing right or down on its haunches right in the center of that in the laundry room.

[Ben]

That's so, so creepy.

[Brian]

So this was one thing you experienced. Were there other situations or.

[Josh]

Yeah, there are other odd things that have happened over the years. Various different counts of sleep paralysis and Other kind of odd things that didn't like listening to the Black Eyed Children episode that you guys did. There was something that piqued my memory back to a time when I was working over in Logan and living in over about 45 minutes away. And on my way home from work one night as I'm driving, I see off to the side of the road, full view in my headlights, there's this little kid on a bike riding on the middle of the right on the side of this highway.

[Brian]

Very of like i15.

[Josh]

It's not i15, is it the highway.

[Ben]

Going through like Manaway Valley View that goes. Oh yeah, dude, you don't ride bikes on that.

[Josh]

Really odd place for a bike to be. So, okay, that's really strange. I'm going to slow down a little bit and as I start to slow down and get ready to pass this kid, he's going to be off to the right hand side. Veers directly in front of my truck. Like I should have hit it, I should have hit him. See the kid disappear underneath the vehicle. So I slam on the brakes, get out of the car, look around, start trying to see what's going on. Well, there's still a lot of wildlife like birds and stuff that would be going off. But get out of the vehicle. It's completely silent. Like dark, heavy silence, can't hear anything.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Josh]

And then get back in the truck and start moving. And just like this gripping fear that stayed with me the entire time when I relayed it back to my wife, one of the things that she picked up on was she said, now hold on a second, go back. You said when you saw in the headlights as you were getting ready to hit this kid that he almost looked like he had no eyes. What is that? And that kind of peaked to me when you guys were going through the Black Eyed Children. Like that's kind of a weird situation. I don't know if it's just like it's happening so quick. Maybe it didn't happen like that. But I didn't hit anything and I.

[Brian]

Could see there was nothing there.

[Josh]

There was nothing there. Didn't feel a bump, Nothing along those lines. Went back the next day back to work and there's my tire marks in the middle of the road. I know something happened, but yeah, what time? This was like 10:30 at night probably. Oh, so you're working like darkish. Yeah, working a later shift. And that was one of the things that came to mind. Like well maybe I was just tired. I don't know, maybe it was A figment of my imagination. But to make it that a kid comes. Right.

[Ben]

Have you had. You ever had anything like that as a figment of your imagination?

[Josh]

Not like that, no.

[Ben]

Yeah. See, like you're already an adult at this point. It's pretty rare that in your 30s you're suddenly going to have the first high level hallucination of your life just because you're a little bit tired from work.

[Brian]

I'm kind of tired.

[Ben]

Yeah. Like, that's. Dude, that's nuts. I didn't know that.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Brian]

So you're. I'm just. I'm thinking back to. In the Mothman story, who's the investigator? Keel.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Keel gets that zone of fear.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Where he was. He was driving, and then all of a sudden, like, literally as he's driving, he just became overcome with terror. And of course, Keel being Keel, he stops the car. I would have been like, I drive faster.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

He stops the car. He gets out in the dead of night when there's like this weird cryptid thing giving people conjunctivitis and eating their dogs. And he's like, no, I'm gonna get out of the car. And he walks and he finds, like a front edge in the road to the zone of fear. When he walks in, he's terrified. Walks all the way to the other side, and at another point, like a line in the sand gets over it and there's no fear, no fear. And he, like, finds both edges and he's just. And it was so strong that he considered at one point he had got on the other side of it from his car and he thought, I could just sleep here on the side of the road. Like, that's how terrifying it was. When you say that the experience was uncanny. Like, the silence, is it like that? There was almost an unnatural, almost shift in the whole.

[Ben]

Like it almost feels like a different world.

[Brian]

Yeah. Like you've been translated to another parallel plane. I'm just making stuff up right now.

[Josh]

Yeah. Because you. I mean, you step outside your. Your back door, you're going to hear nature sounds.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Something. You can hear the air moving, all of that. This is like you go into a sound booth when you're trying to record music or something, and it's complete dead silence. Like just nothing. And it's a pretty wide open space. There's houses not too far away from there. There's all sorts of different stuff that's going to be going on. Can't hear anything. Like, my vehicle motor is still running and I can't hear that That's.

[Brian]

That is just completely gone, insanely creepy.

[Ben]

So this reminds me of we. We've talked about this in another one of the Graveyard Shift episodes, but how in the garden, God gives the curse and he tells Satan the whole plan. You know, the seed of the woman is going to eventually crush your head. And. And so that gives Satan his great strategy, which is, well, all I have to do is corrupt the seed of the woman. Right. And so, going back to the uncanny thing, Freud wrongly posited that the reason we're so afraid of uncanniness is because in our deep evolutionary past. Yeah. We finally developed as Homo sapiens. Yeah. Homo, homo sapiens. And homeo Romeo. Yeah, no, homeo bro. There you go.

[Brian]

Yeah, I got you.

[Ben]

And when we finally became fully conscious Homo sapiens, we developed a disdain for the lesser, almost human that were close.

[Brian]

But not quite species because they were violent.

[Ben]

And, yeah, they were still walking around, but they were barbaric. And so we developed kind of a revulsion towards them. And that eventually became this uncanny dread where we're like, if we see something uncanny, we're gonna totally avoid it. And he even posited to the point about the. The zone. Fear. The fear zone, whatever, is. You know, humans have a lot more than just five senses. We have dozens of senses. And that's one of the senses that, in an evolutionary sense developed where we would be able to tell somehow in the air that there was this specific type of danger, really. And it would mean that all of our other senses shut down, which is why we don't hear anything, why we don't, like, feel the air move, just tap into it, because we have to focus on this big threat. Now, obviously, he's wrong with the materialism.

[Brian]

I made it up.

[Ben]

Yeah, he made it up, but he's trying to explain something that he believes he's seeing in nature. Right. And so he's explaining it wrong. But some later Christian thinkers who've kind of been in this zone a little bit more on the fringe, they've thought, well, maybe he wasn't totally wrong to notice that. Like, maybe that is a thing that we. We have a particular fear and aversion to the uncanny. But he's explaining it from a materialist standpoint. Could we explain it from a biblical standpoint? And they propose, yes, we could. Because if Satan wanted to corrupt the seed of the woman, how would he do that? Well, Genesis 6, 4, the sons of God came down and they took for themselves wives, and they had to take upon themselves a corporeal form. And so the line of Seth, the righteous line of Seth, is seeing this fallen angel in a corporeal form. And then the offspring that is produced is uncanny where it's almost human or it's part human, but it's not actually human. And it's like a monster that you should flee and fear and run from. And so that's kind of like one of the ideas is that man actually does have a sense for that, because whether it's by providential grace or just by something that man was taught for generations down the line, that anytime you see something and you know it's not a human, but it looks like a human, you had better flee if you actually care about righteousness or life or whatever. Because there were demons running around posing as human beings for millennia. And super spooky, maybe still do. And so that's where we get this. Anyway, like, I think that's a very fascinating idea. We're excited. Again, made it up, but it is a fascinating idea.

[Brian]

So. So black eyed children, little demon creatures.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Like, trying to. What are they trying to do? Because they're always trying to get in. In other stories, in this case, they weren't trying to get in, but like the original.

[Ben]

And. Well, so there's. There. I was talking about this with someone some weeks back. Like, there's the doctrine of total, total depravity for man doesn't say that every human being is as bad as they possibly could be. Right, right. That they do as many sins as they could ever do.

[Josh]

Right.

[Ben]

It just says that all of man's nature to the very bottom has been corrupted and twisted by sin, and now man's desire is for sin left to his own devices, outside the grace of God. They're saying that and. Sorry, within that you have different dispositions. Someone is a serial killer. That is objectively more damaging and worse than someone who is not a serial killer.

[Brian]

Yeah. Than someone who, like, occasionally tells a lie, steals birthday money.

[Ben]

Exactly.

[Brian]

From their sibling.

[Ben]

Yes. Yeah. Or someone. Yeah, exactly. And I was saying, well, what if the same could be true for the fallen spirits where they're not all literally the devil and they don't all do as much wickedness as they possibly could ever do, but they have personality as well, because they do. I mean, that's one of the tenets of reformed angelology, is that the angels are personal. They have individuality because they're a unique intelligence. And so you have some angels, fallen angels. Sorry, like demons that want to very explicitly, in a way that's very terrifying. And terrible. Destroy mankind. And they'll do that in different ways. But maybe one of those ways is by making themselves into a uncanny lure that terrifies like it's just pure terrifying versus another kind of trick that they might try to pull depending on disposition is I'm going to actually make you feel really good.

[Brian]

Yeah, right.

[Ben]

I'm going to give you a lot of happiness. I'm going to give you what you want, I'm going to give you all these gifts, you know, and by doing that I'm going to win you over to this like last spell that'll actually pull you away from the.

[Brian]

Which we saw in the first graveyard shift with the psycho. The psychedelics.

[Ben]

Exactly. And whether that is the right mechanics doesn't really matter. The point is both of those things clearly happen where some of them are more overtly, very visibly terrifying, terrible, dreadful and other ones are even very visibly benevolent, quote unquote and beneficent towards man, quote unquote. And then there's a whole spectrum in between of different deceptions. Dang. So the Black Eyed Kids would be like on the one side a demonic intelligence that is very much like just loves to. I want to terrify you. I want to make you, you know, want to destroy things. Yeah, I want all that.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Ben]

So it's just kind of a more low brow form of demonic oppression and deception.

[Josh]

So. So you believe the aliens are demons?

[Ben]

Yeah, I do. Jake Muller Adventures is an immersive, mysterious and engaging audio drama. It weaves in meaningful Christian themes and rich sound design with suspenseful storytelling. Check out the Jake Muller Adventures audio drama [e-mail] or you can find them on Spotify, Audible or Google Play. Man, what is that?

[Brian]

Did you hear that? Is that a ghost?

[Ben]

It's just me moaning through the pain of a terrible night of sleep and a hurt back.

[Brian]

Honestly, you probably just have a magnesium deficiency, which like the Fae, is a very real thing.

[Ben]

Well how. Well, how do I get more magnesium? Do I start leaving offerings out to it or something?

[Brian]

No, you just use Humble Love's magnesium cream. It's got no weird chemicals or demonic ingredients. It's made by a husband and wife team. Totally clean, totally safe, even for kids.

[Ben]

Well, at least that doesn't sound scary.

[Brian]

It's not. Visit the humblelife store.com, that's the humblelifestore.com and use code NCP15 for 15% off your first jar link in the description.

[Ben]

Hey Brian, have you ever wondered what Sasquatch's feet smell like? After a long journey through the wilderness?

[Brian]

Absolutely not. But I have wondered about what a dwarven forge smells like after I visit a gothic cathedral that sits right next to the alchemist.

[Ben]

Whoa. Well, hey, then you're in luck because Mythology Candles has all of those scents in candle form.

[Brian]

Even Sasquatch's smelly feet.

[Ben]

Well, not really his smelly feet, but they do have a Sasquatch candle. So go to mythologycandles.com that's mythology spelled with with ie at the end and use code cosmos for 10% off your order.

[Brian]

Hey Ben, I just read that our great grandparents probably experimented with butter on their dry skin as a moisturizer. Is that why you look so radiant?

[Ben]

Maybe it's grandma's butter recipe. Or maybe it's Gray Toad tallow.

[Brian]

Their tallow products are 100% organic and naturally contain the good stuff that your skin craves. No mystery there.

[Ben]

So say sayonara Sammy to kitchen experiments. And say hello to healthier skin Gray Totalo Trusted by Skin envied by Great Grandma's butter recipe.

[Brian]

For more information and to get a sample pack, check out gray toad tallow dot com. Don't forget to use the code COSMOS15. That's all caps COSMOS15 for 15% off your order. Any other things happen to you? That's terrible. That's horrible.

[Josh]

I guess one other thing that similar, different types of situations that have happened along the lines of like sleep paralysis. There was one time in particular that comes to memory that stood out as, yeah, this wasn't the figment of imagination because of external proofs that made it obvious that something weird was going on. So my wife and I were staying at a friend's house. She had a spare bedroom set up in the basement, space, tv, pull out couch, all of that kind of stuff. So we're sleeping on the couch, the couch, bed. And right around roughly midnight, based off of the time that we went to sleep and you know, she's asleep. I haven't really been able to yet. Just kind of lay in there and start feeling this kind of oppressive feeling, similar to my experience from when I was 10. Just like, okay, this is creepy. The room's really dark, so I'm not going to be able to see anything. But that's freaking me out a little bit. And as I'm laying there, like you felt something come into the room, A presence looming in the door that again was open. I don't sleep with the door open anymore because it's just a room of being able to indicate that something is coming that shouldn't be there.

[Brian]

It's also like a good fire safety practice.

[Josh]

Exactly. That's the prime.

[Brian]

So really, like two birds zone.

[Josh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So laying in the bed, something's in the room. And I'm recognizing, like, that. Okay, this is really odd. I. I don't like this. I'm feeling really scared in this situation. And as I'm kind of sitting there thinking, like, what am I going to do? I can't move. And I start hearing my wife. Her breathing gets really heavy, like, speeds up. She's kind of twitching in bed and stuff. Something's weird. It's bugging her too, but she hasn't woken up from it yet. And eventually, like, able to break free of that inability to speak or move and start crying out to Jesus like, you don't have power in this room anymore. In the name of Jesus, leave us alone. And finally it kind of raises and lifts and my wife wakes up. She's like, what's going on? Like, what was that? I'm scared out of my mind right now. Like, I don't know, hun. Something. Something was in here and I cried out, sorry if I woke you up. She's like, no, I terrified right now. And that's happened a couple of different times, I guess, over the years. But that one was one where it was like, there are two people here that experienced it in different ways.

[Brian]

Yes.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

Oh, yeah, totally.

[Ben]

One of the. I mean, I love that. I don't love that it happened to you, but I love that you brought.

[Josh]

I love.

[Brian]

Because.

[Ben]

No, because a lot of times people can get that feeling of, like, that intense dread and they think, I'm in my own head. I'm making too much of this. Maybe you're camping alone and you're like, I'm just being a baby. But the fact that both of y' all were witness to it and you witnessed to each other about it, like, no, I felt terrible and now it's gone. The practical takeaway for the listener is if you ever find yourself in a situation where you feel a sudden onset feeling of existential dread, get out of that situation, call upon the name of Christ, ask him to help you. But don't just ignore it and brush it off as like, oh, I'm just in my own head. No, maybe actually the Lord is trying to help you by giving you a sense of something scary that's close by.

[Brian]

It's never a bad idea to call upon the Lord.

[Ben]

Yeah, never. Yeah, you're never gonna. Even when times are good.

[Brian]

Yeah, you're never gonna be like, oh, I really regret Calling upon the Lord.

[Ben]

Yeah, I really wasted his time.

[Brian]

I really, like, I'm. It's better when I depend on myself, honestly. You know, I am able to really accomplish a lot more.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

No, no, no. Call upon the Lord.

[Ben]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Brian]

Call upon the Lord. That reminds me of a. Of a story that I heard an interview. I heard the guy tell it directly on an episode of Astonishing Legends. It was one of their very first episodes, probably first 10. And he was just talking about how he would go solo backpacking all the time. And he, you know, had this one place he wanted to go. Along a highway. He noticed a trail that just went up this river. And so he. You know, he went up there. He got. He was late from work, like, getting off work. So it was, like, going dark when he started setting up his camp. When all of a sudden he was just, like, overcome with dread in this sense of like, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm absolutely not supposed to be here. But then everything went wrong. Like, his. His flat. It was like a movie. He dropped his flashlight. It breaks.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

You know, he, like, can't. He's so. He's got. He's like, lighting matches. It's pitch dark. He's lighting matches to, like, try and take a few steps down the path. He just starts hearing all these things around him, feeling things brush him. Like, he's going. He finally just yells out, I know I'm leaving.

[Ben]

I'm not.

[Brian]

Like, I'm going. Will you, like, stop it? And he gets all the way down this trail. Like a mile. Not even that long. Like a mile or two. But it takes forever. Cause it's pitch black. And then he gets back to his truck, and it's just like, it's over. Walked by this boundary, and it was just. That was it. The guy's not a Christian, but he was, like, a doctor. He was not a kook. He was a medical doctor, an ER physician who had done, like. He was retired, like, 40 years as an ER doctor.

[Ben]

Dang.

[Brian]

Not a big. Like, he didn't have any other supernatural experience, but just. He was so certain that even though a skeptic would look and say, but what's the evidence that something happened, he's like, well, you weren't there. Yeah, if you were there, you would have experienced. I know what I felt and that I do. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some spiritual reality to that situation that was just seeking an opportunity to terrorize or demonize. Or do something. And, like, he apparently got away. Hopefully he called upon the name of the Lord at some point.

[Ben]

But, you know, genuinely, the only paranormal experience I've ever had was exactly like that. I was in college. I had grown up backpacking in the Appalachian Mountains my whole life with my dad. And I was like, well, I'm just gonna go for a quick little, like, camping trip up to North Carolina just by myself, solo, you know, just get away.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And I got camp set up. Everything was great. And then it, like, stormed. And so I just got in the tent. I was reading a book, waiting out the storm. It stopped, and I was like, well, I'll go for a hike. So I went. And I was. And I remember exactly when it happened, like, where on the trail I was. It was like, taking a step, and I'm like, I have to go. Like, this is. I'm being watched. There's something here. I can't be here. Something bad is definitely going to happen. And I had never felt that before, ever. And since. Never felt it since. And sure enough, yeah, I went and, like, packed up everything, and my dad lived relatively close by, so I called him. I was like, can I just stay at your house tonight? Like, this is.

[Brian]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah. Do you think.

[Brian]

Do you think there might be an element? Speculate a little bit. You know, we pray, like, God, send your angels to watch over us. There's just some danger head, spiritual, physical, whatever. And God's like, the means I'm going to appoint is there's just going to be like, when the donkey.

[Ben]

Balam's donkey. Yeah.

[Brian]

I mean, he's like, you idiot. What are you doing? Why won't you keep going? And the donkey's like, like, are you kidding me right now? Am I not a good doll? Like, there's. There's an angel about to just John Wick him.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

You know, maybe that's what's.

[Ben]

Where it's like, you know, like, guys are terrible at picking up signs from a girl that likes them. They'll blink and they'll. And finally it just. The woman's like, hey, I like you. Can we do something about this?

[Josh]

Can we date?

[Ben]

And the angel's like, what's actually going to get their attention? I know stuff they don't like.

[Brian]

Uncontrollable fear, hard confrontation. Like, this guy is just not that quick.

[Ben]

Yeah. Like, you're gonna get a lot worse than this.

[Brian]

Everything in you is gonna say, you will die painfully if you take another step.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Brian]

You know, so the angels, your guardian angels. Just like. It was like a grizzly bear right up there. There was a bigfoot. There was some. It was gonna eat him. And he was like, I mean, why not?

[Ben]

Why not?

[Brian]

You know, why not?

[Ben]

Yeah, why not?

[Brian]

Why not us? Why not today?

[Ben]

Well, should we wrap this up?

[Brian]

You should wrap it up.

[Ben]

Josh, thank you so much for sharing those stories. Really fascinating stories. Glad that Lord brought you out of them. And I mean, another example of just the, the supremacy of Christ, calling upon the name of Christ. Even your dad praying over you. Good. And then you calling on Christ with that strange feeling with your wife. That's beautiful. Yeah, that's beautiful. Love it. Yeah.

[Brian]

All right, guys, thanks for listening to this Graveyard Shift special Haunted Cosmos episode. We hope it was helpful to you and you enjoyed it. If you like the work that we do here at Haunted Cosmos and New Christian Apartments, press be like Josh, go to patreon.com haunted cosmos and become a monthly supporter. You can chip in a few bucks a month and it helps us keep the lights on here at Haunted Cosmos. I help pay for all the different hands that touch every single episode. But everything we do at Haunted Cosmos, before it hits your YouTube feed or your podcast feed, and there's a lot of perks there, we do a weekly story driven show called the Dusty Tome every single week. You can get that just as a patron. Our audiobook is up streaming for our upper two tiers as well and a lot of other stuff. Early ad free episodes. We're between the seasons right now, but season six is already streaming, completely finished and ad free for not necessarily the whole season. But they're already experiencing season six there on Patreon. So we appreciate you guys. Thanks for listening. Make sure you tell your friends and we'll catch you next time on Hana Cosmos.