← Healing + Human Potential
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- [00:00]
Alyson Obriga
People are scared of losing their jobs through AI.
- [00:03]
Natalie MacNeil
AI is going to be smarter than the smartest person on the planet. There's no point in competing with AI cognitively where we need to go. As humanity is developing our emotional intelligence, the leaders who are figuring out those new ways of collaborating with it, those are the people who are going to lead the future. The majority of people spend most of their time working. We don't even know what it means to truly be human. If AI can take on more of the work, we're going to be in a place where we get to discover what that actually means.
- [00:42]
Alyson Obriga
What are three most important ways we could be using AI?
- [00:45]
Natalie MacNeil
I have a 3C's prompt framework. It's clarity, context and cues and it's going to completely blow your mind.
- [00:55]
Alyson Obriga
Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast. So, as you know, AI is rapidly changing the way that we work, learn and move through our everyday lives. And so today we're going to explore how to not only use it in our businesses, but also as a tool for personal growth, self awareness, creativity, and how to navigate our life in a more intentional way. Joining us is Natalie MacNeil, who's an Emmy award winning media entrepreneur. She's a futurist and a visionary when it comes to AI and entrepreneurship. She helps people use AI in a way that's ethical, embodied, and deeply supportive. And I hope that this served you.
- [01:29]
Natalie MacNeil
I'm so happy that you are here.
- [01:31]
Alyson Obriga
You are one of the most brilliant women and people that I know and I'm excited to dive into your mind and heart all around AI. And I wanted to start this conversation off because I know there's a lot of people that are scared of losing their jobs through AI. And I'm curious if you can challenge that perspective.
- [01:49]
Natalie MacNeil
I can look back on human history and see so many points in time where our ancestors faced a lot of uncertainty the way that we're in a place of uncertainty right now. And of course the technology is different, but we also have to remember that at the time, something like the printing press felt so monumental and felt like it was going to change everything. And it did. And if you look at the example of something like the printing press, there were people who were afraid like that. The people who printed by hand were afraid that they weren't going to have jobs anymore. There was a lot of fear from people at the top of the quote unquote system who were afraid that they weren't going to be able to control people as much anymore. Because if people had access to all this new information, information that used to be held very tight and sometimes reserved for a select few. What would happen, what would happen if all this information was out in the world? So people across different spectrums of thinking, of education, of workplaces were in this place of fear around what was going to happen. And it created new opportunities. It created the opportunity to have things like newspapers and magazines and ways of distributing information, books. It opened up being able to distribute books and publications to so many people and so much more that built around that as an industry. So there have been these points where we've faced uncertainty and we've always figured it out. We've always figured it out. And photography as well was another example that I love looking at because when the camera first came out, people were terrified of the camera and there were superstitions that if you got your photo taken that the camera was gonna suck your soul out of you. So people didn't wanna get their picture taken. And there were all these riots because painters were afraid that they were gonna completely lose their jobs. But we had new industries that formed all of this that we're doing here. Recording is capable because of that, of that time. It's a possibility because of that time.
- [04:16]
Alyson Obriga
So we are resilient. And so I'm. And I'm thinking of the Industrial revolution. And just like we will keep evolving as a species in a society. And I just keep thinking about the tools have to navigate that and how important that is. Because even let's say if there's the economy crashes, there are other companies that have clear, because of a clear mindset, can go in and find ways to monopolize and offer value and take business from other, bigger companies that are, that are closing. So it's like if we are thinking about how can I serve, how can I do the inner work, we can navigate that uncertainty more gracefully.
- [04:49]
Natalie MacNeil
Yes. And we have tools that people didn't have in other points of history where we faced so much change. And I believe that so many of us have been called to do deeper work and somatic work over the last 10 to 15 years where it's really been more in the zeitgeist, people coming out as meditators. I remember even 15 years ago talking about meditation and it felt really woo. And then there was that tipping point where everyone was meditating. Executives were saying it was a big part of their daily practice. So I think we've been preparing for these times through all of that work. There's a reason why we were called to it.
- [05:35]
Alyson Obriga
And so for the people that are like, I'm in an industry where I see that it's starting to take over. How can they better prepare? Obviously, doing the inner work is foundational. What do you recommend for people that are like, oh, I'm in software engineering or whatever it is that it's starting with their jobs? What do you recommend for people to start navigating this transition?
- [05:56]
Natalie MacNeil
Now is the time to learn the skills and to begin collaborating with AI if you haven't already been. And also looking at how your expertise can be merged with AI to maybe even create something new. Maybe there's something that in your collaborations with AI you're going to see as a possibility and leaning more into that. But I do believe that everyone needs to be learning these skills. This is the future and it's not too late. But I also think the window is going to close very soon. So if you haven't already been learning how to work with AI, prompt engineering, learning how to set up workflows, going beyond just task management with AI and truly using it as a thought partner, there's a window that's still open, but it's not going to stay open forever. And I think the leaders who are working with it now and figuring out those new ways of collaborating with it and seeing the opportunities that are going to exist in their industries, like those are the people who are going to lead the future.
- [07:13]
Alyson Obriga
Yeah. So what are some of those skill sets that are going to be replaced pretty quickly? And what are some of the human capacities that we should be really developing more so that we can work harmoniously and kind of collaborate with AI as we expand?
- [07:27]
Natalie MacNeil
So very, very soon, AI is going to be smarter than the smartest person on the planet, just from a standpoint of IQ and cognitive capabilities. So where does that leave us? Well, there's no point in competing with AI cognitively. Where we need to go as humanity is developing our emotional intelligence, as AI can take over what we've got in our minds, I think it's an invitation and an opportunity to drop deeper into our hearts, drop deeper into our bodies. Those skills, like developing the human skills, that's what we need to bring into our work. That's what we need to bring into workplaces. And what's really exciting to me when I think about where this could go is we've had throughout all of human history either a need to spend a lot of our energy on surviving, or from the dawn of the agricultural revolution and then the industrial revolution, we spent most of our life force energy working. So the majority of People at the end of their lives, if you look at where their time was spent, the majority of people spend most of their time working. I wonder how much more is possible that we haven't even discovered yet when it comes to being a human being. Do we even know what that is? If we've spent all of our time working?
- [09:07]
Alyson Obriga
I'm like thinking that we're looking back saying, why did we work 9 to 5?
- [09:11]
Natalie MacNeil
We will. Yeah, we will. Because even the, the 9 to 540 hour standardized work week is actually quite moder. Before that, people worked seven days a week. So the five day 40 hour workweek was actually considered revolutionary and was made possible by technological advancements. Now in some countries they're testing a four day standard work week. I think with AI we'll get that down to maybe three days and then eventually it could be even less than that. But we don't even know what it means to truly be human. And I think if AI can take on more of the work that we've had to do, we are going to get to be in a place where we get to discover what that actually means. I think that's really exciting.
- [10:07]
Alyson Obriga
And I was just thinking also in the workplace it's for me, I'm moving more into my feminine in how I lead. So it feels like being vulnerable. It feels like in connection, it feels like not just in my masculine of like focus strategy. It's both, it's integrated and I think if AI is helping replace some of it. But we're working with it and eventually, you know, I know, I know there's a saying about different generations use AI differently. Right. So it's like our parents might be using it as a Google, my kids are using it as like an assistant rather than, you know, just as a Google. So some people don't even know what's possible and how things can be more autonomous that we're, we don't have to prompt it at one point, right. That that's coming. So I get excited about where we're going and I would love for you to kind of debunk some of the things because I know when we talk I'm like, my daughter's talking about how if we're using AI, how much water it's taking and could you share with us? Because I know that there's some misinformation, but I, I just would love to hear some misunderstandings that you'd love to clarify for people that want to adopt it but are kind of hesitant or reluctant for some reason.
- [11:14]
Natalie MacNeil
I love talking to people who are values and ethical and who have resistance to using AI. So the arguments that I hear against, one of the biggest ones is the environmental impact. And the latest research from the International energy agency, the IEA, they show that AI use is only 1.5% of global emissions versus an industry like fashion, which is 8% or you know, Big Agra or oil, for example. Like those industries are way, way, way beyond AI. But all the pressure and all of the attention is on AI at the moment. But it's not the biggest culprit. I think the, the biggest culprits that are contributing to climate change and environmental degradation and they can be more lax when all of our attention is somewhere else. And I think that there's some intentionality behind that and there is lobbying that is supporting that. So Google, in the last year they were able to achieve a 44x reduction in their carbon footprint per use of AI. Every time you're going and working with Gemini. So they're actively trying to be carbon neutral and to make sure that AI is not going to contribute to climate change. Of course there's an impact and we should absolutely be keeping the pressure on. But what I'm seeing is that a lot of these companies are actually trying to make sure that they're running carbon neutral data centers, the data center placements and things like that. We should be advocating for those to be in places where it's far away from big populations, far away from bigger cities. So it's good for us to advocate and to also keep pressure on. But I don't think people have the whole picture. People think that AI is like now the, the worst thing on the planet and it's gone beyond all these other industries and that's just not true. And people care a lot about ethics, which I appreciate. I want the ethical values driven, heart led people being the ones who are working with AI. And that's really about how you choose to use it. So an unethical use of AI would be to go to your competitor's website and copy it all and put it into AI and have it recreated for you versus working with AI in a collaborative way and having it help you refine what your genius is, what you're here to, to offer the world, how to package that, how to market that in your own way, in a way that feels aligned versus just going in and taking and recreating. That's again the passenger versus the driver. That's like being in the passenger seat of working with AI rather than being in the driver's seat.
- [14:25]
Alyson Obriga
Yeah. And I remember one time you were like ask AI to interview you so you got more educated. So I was using this around voting and I'm like interview me, then it can help me clarify and learn facts where I feel, where I stand on things. So like I don't even think people realize how much we can use it for, especially depending on the generation and the willingness to adapt it. But yeah, any, anything else that you want to debunk around AI and, and if not we can move on. But I just think it's important to get the facts.
- [14:56]
Podcast Host Outro
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- [16:23]
Natalie MacNeil
People also think AI hallucinates a lot, that it doesn't pull factual information. And whenever I need facts either, I'm using perplexity. Perplexity is an amazing model for research and like real statistics, if you're doing things in the academia space. A lot, a lot of people in academia are actually using perplexity. But, but all of the LLMs now have deep research models as well. And you can set it to research something for you and then leave it and it will come back with amazing reports and it will go through and sometimes read like thousands and thousands of websites and journal articles and come back to you with a report on what it's found. So if you are an entrepreneur, for example, and you want to do some market research on something, you're planning a launch launch, or you want creative ways to get your offer out into the world, you can work with the LLM of your choice. I love Claude. You can use Claude Deep Research. A lot of people are just using the standard models. They're just going in, they're opening up a new conversation and they're just using the default. Instead of actually changing the model, which you can do, you'll find that inside of the, the prompt box. So you can have it do research for you on just about anything. I love using it in the those ways because then you can actually fill in knowledge gaps that you have as well. So let's say this goes back to the interview that you were mentioning because I love having people have AI interview them. Let's say you are an entrepreneur. I know there are a lot of entrepreneurs in this community. So you have your coaching company and let's say your next big goal is to get to a million dollars in revenue. But that's somewhere that you haven't been before and it's a stretch for you. You can use deep research and have it first understand your gaps. So it's good to have Claude interview you, understand where you are and ask to. So here's how I would prompt it. I would say one of my goals right now is to grow my business to a million in revenue. Right now my revenue is a hundred thousand dollars. So this is a 10x. I need to know how to 10x this company and there are a lot of things I know that I don't know. So I want you to interview me to discover what those gaps might be that would prevent me from having this 10x growth and running the million dollar company. Once it does that interview, you can use deep research mode to then have it research the ways that you could more easily 10x your business. And this is again a way of using AI to expand your potential because now it's helping fill in gaps that you've had in your knowledge, in your understanding, even in your embodiment so you can bring that piece into it as well. Like who do I need to be every day? What are the core habits and rituals that I need to get into so that I'm operating as the CEO of the million dollar company instead of the a hundred thousand dollars company, Knowing what's
- [19:53]
Alyson Obriga
important to me, knowing my blind spots and you know, filling in the blanks. Okay, I want to dive into all that too. But you brought something up. So perplexity, it sounds like, is really great for research, which I've also found. Can you just give like at least currently in the landscape what you recommend? Maybe like top 3 or 5 just for digestible ways to use different AI so people have a sense.
- [20:14]
Natalie MacNeil
Claude I love and I love Claude because it was built with human values and they're doing things differently. Their responses sound and feel more human. It is more emotionally intelligent. So anything that you need that needs to sound and feel human. So things like marketing content, uh, even conversations back and forth. Like if I'm using it as a coach, I love using Claude for that because it brings in embodiment and, and some, some somatic coaching. Although it's not a replacement for that either. Claude also has so many different features that you can use. So I love Claude's skills. It's a whole new feature setting. Claude highly recommend it and Gemini. So Google's Gemini is integrated fully into the Google product suite. If you use that, it also integrates with YouTube. If you wanted to analyze YouTube videos or if you want to train it on YouTube videos, you can create gems in Gemini. So gems are the equivalent of creating a custom GPT in ChatGPT which can do something very specific for you or a project in Claude is the same in Gemini. It's a gem. And you can have your gems trained on YouTube, which is really cool actually. So I have a, I have a coach that is set up in Gemini and it's trained more on the, on the YouTube videos of coaching sessions that I really like. I also have it keep up with different like financial analysis and things like that. It's really good at finances Gemini. So I use that for a lot of investing and financial stuff. Gemini has just amazing models. Also really good for photo and video chat. GPT I still call it, I call it the multimodal Muse. Like it can kind of do a little bit of everything, but it's not amazing at doing everything. So I find myself going more and more to Claude and Gemini. Perplexity is incredible for research and if you are in academia or if you create essays or research reports and you need facts, and you need facts and data and statistics from a wide range of sources, then perplexity is amazing for that. And the models are changing all the time. So next week I might, I might do it differently. But yeah, I think perplexity kind of stands alone. And then right now I'm Claude number one, Gemini number two and ChatGPT number three. I don't really use Grok. Some people love that Grok just feels very human and conversational. I guess I've used it a few times in my Tesla but otherwise it's not a go to for me.
- [23:16]
Alyson Obriga
And I know that the number one reason people use AI is for therapy, which I think is fantastic. Like I would love for us to get to a place where it is transforming lives for free. Like that is the, I'm here for the mission and I also know it won't replace, you know, I think my biased opinion is that it's great for awareness, calling out blind spots, working with AI for bringing awareness to some of our patterns that we may be unconscious to. I think it's also great for strategy. Where I feel like it's missing is human can obviously presence, human connection and some of the deepest, most important work which is the transformative. And so working with it I think is fantastic. But I'm curious how you specifically see AI shifting the healing space and how you might work with AI to complement supporting us and going deeper into the work.
- [24:12]
Natalie MacNeil
I love hearing from a therapist that is actually excited about the potential because I don't have those conversations very often.
- [24:23]
Alyson Obriga
I'm here for the mission, I'm not here in scarcity. Like I, I, you know, I think we've actually talked about wanting to use technology and even like putting electrodes on the brain to support integrating into the nervous system in ways that we can support healing and transformation in the world and make that free and accessible. Like imagine what is possible when a world has the support at their fingertips. Like I'm so grateful for that. And obviously there's ways that we want to train it so that it's trauma informed and doing good and, and whatnot. But I, I'm more hopeful than anything and, but I, and I see it being most helpful with the awareness and the strategic, less the transformative. Unless you already know how to do that work and you're working with it. But talk to us more about what you see.
- [25:10]
Natalie MacNeil
The other thing that AI is just so much better than us at is pattern recognition. So as we're working with it over a long period of time. If you go to whatever LLM you use most often, and if you ask it based on all of our interactions, what are the patterns that you notice? In my thinking processes, in my emotional processing, what are the patterns you notice that might limit me and hold me back? And what are the patterns that you think are really healthy, that you see me repeating, that I can lean more into? And it is brilliant at that. So the longer you have a relationship with it, the more it's going to be able to pick up and track these different patterns. I for my 40th birthday, I decided to read the last 20 years of my journals. I've been an avid regular journaler for a very long time. And I was just going to read the last decade and I ended up reading the last two decades of journals. And part of the way through I was like, I would love to actually have Claude support me with this because you can use camera mode as well. And I started putting some of my entries into Claude and it started tracking the patterns and it started tracking where I was shifting a pattern. Like when there was a moment when it seems like something shifted almost instantaneously where that pattern stopped. And then helping me analyze what it was in that moment, that really helped me to break that pattern. And as I did that, and I started having more conversations with it about how I process my thoughts and emotions, it started creating a map of how I process thoughts and emotions. And we went back and forth a little bit with the map and I asked it to interview me. I love doing the interviews. I asked it to interview me about my. My map and to refine it even more so that it could know me even better and help me to see where I wasn't operating in my potential. And so now I have it challenge me in those ways.
- [27:29]
Alyson Obriga
And I think that's so helpful because, like, to have it challenge us to have it open our mind to see something different, I think that's an important piece that I would encourage people to do when working with AI. I also asked my AI to roast me, which was hilarious. One of the things it said was like, you're all Zen until the Internet goes out and you freak out. I'm like, accurate. To me, pattern recognition is part of the awareness work. I think it's phenomenal with that and people can be using that and prompting and asking it to, well, you can share more with it, your journals, but also asking it to challenge you in the way that you think and help you see things in the way that you couldn't and then also create the strategic plan. At least in my method, it's awareness, acceptance, aligned action. So the acceptance piece is where I don't see AI like really taking over presence, human connection. I think that, you know, it's going to tell you what you want to hear for the most part, unless you're asking it to challenge you. But some of the brilliance of triggers and rupture in relationship is what helps us see what we have gone unconscious to. And that would be harder to have with an AI that, and I don't know, do you think that AI will ever fully understand a human emotion?
- [28:40]
Natalie MacNeil
Not in the same way that we do. So it's likely that if you're just scoring emotional intelligence. So for example, Claude can score very, very high in emotional intelligence, higher than most humans. But it's very different because it's not. It doesn't have the felt sense. And that's what I think we need to lean more into. And you're absolutely right. There's the expansion of awareness and the pattern recognition, but then nothing replaces being witnessed by another human being, held by another human. The coherence you can create in the field, the safety. That's our healing potential for where we're going. And I, I also want to say a quick note because you mentioned having it challenge your, your biases. I think this is really critical and I encourage everybody, especially if you're in CHAT GPT, because chatgpt will yes you to death. And if you go into settings and you go to personalization, you can enter a system prompt for CHAT GPT on how it will interact with you. And in your system prompt, I invite you to ask it to challenge you. So I have it call me out if it notices that I am stuck in a loop, if it notices that I'm limiting myself, if it's noticing any biases to challenge me on it. And then it becomes more of a sparring partner. And I tell it not to just validate me all the time. And I make it very clear that I want to be challenged because the challenge is where I personally get to grow and evolve as a human and how important that is to me on this human path that I'm on. Yeah.
- [30:34]
Alyson Obriga
And I'm just realizing that one of the things that makes it so vulnerable in relationship is the fear of losing someone. And so abandonment wounds wouldn't come up with AI. Right. And so there's other ways that. And just having been a relationship therapist, it's like there's rich soil there around attachment, around loss, about, around Being rejected, that only come up in our human relating where AI won't bring that. So there's places for it. But working with it, prompting it in these ways, can support more evolution for us for sure.
- [31:05]
Natalie MacNeil
Yeah. And we can't lose the human relationship. You're right. I think there's the risk. It's a huge, huge risk. Actually. It's one of the things that most scares me that we would end up in a place where we're using it to bypass, to bypass our avoidance and our fear of rejection and to bypass our shadow. Because we're in this comfy AI and
- [31:29]
Alyson Obriga
a dog never going to be left.
- [31:31]
Natalie MacNeil
Yeah, like we're in this comfy little echo chamber of one and it's very seductive and it's very dangerous. And I think social media has given us a taste of that. So the algorithm has put people in cages and the algorithm has encouraged a lot of group think, which has eroded some of our own discernment and critical thinking. And now we're going to have that on a whole other level with AI, because now we're in an echo chamber of one, and that's incredibly dangerous. And this is something that needs to be built into the models as well. The models need to recognize when that's happening. And I think by default it should be challenging the person. But it's, it's something we'll have to navigate and figure out. And I hope we've learned some lessons from social media and their algorithm, but I'm not sure we have because there's
- [32:28]
Alyson Obriga
the, the how we actually prompt AI to work with us, which I'm hearing. But also how can we be more discerning given that things are going to be with deep fake and so much more about to arise in us buying into whatever we see, thinking it's real. What can we be doing to discern better?
- [32:47]
Natalie MacNeil
Wow, this is such a big topic because we're, we're in a post truth world at this point. I mean truth in one definition of truth. And I think we're gonna really lose our sense of reality. And you're right. I mean deep fakes are so good now. I, I like to do a run through. So I'll do this really regularly in my own life of like going through all of these deep fake images and being able to see like, oh, this one's real, this one's not. And I'll like go through a bunch of them like they're cue cards and I used to get almost all of them right like a year ago and now it's very, very hard. What I do notice, though, is when I'm in my daily practice, when I'm doing the somatic work, when I feel deeply embodied and I'm doing that, I'm going through the images and there's. There is still something that feels off to me, and I trust that. So I think it's going to be harder and harder to tell what's real. I hope that. That especially for what we're. We're looking at on our screens, because I think the danger of social media and the algorithm to this point is that people are in their echo chamber, and then what they're seeing, they're believing it's real because their eyes are seeing it and the mind is perfect processing it as real. If we start not believing what we're seeing anymore, then what is that going to do to the mind?
- [34:30]
Alyson Obriga
Yeah. And to me, that's some of the deepest inquiry. So in an ideal world, AI is actually supporting us to be more conscious, to question the nature of reality, who we think we are, what's true. And so I'm just curious about that conversation, what your thoughts are around, how AI can support more consciousness, more creativity, more of us developing and trusting our intuition.
- [34:56]
Natalie MacNeil
I think it's a beautiful question to ask it, and I feel like it's personal to everybody, and it's a beautiful conversation to have. I've had many of these conversations with AI, and I believe creativity is the new productivity. I believe that AI will open up new forms of intelligence. In the 1970s, there was this whole conversation around the calculator. The calculator was like a huge. It was a huge thing, made a huge splash, and there were a lot of people who believed that if you were using a calculator, that you were no longer going to be able to calculate anything, and it was going to erode thinking capacities. What it actually did, though, was brought about higher thinking capacities, higher levels of thinking. So I think we're going to be in a place where there are higher levels of thinking, where it is able to challenge us from multiple angles and meet us in our depths and show us where we can be more human and we can use our human capacities and capabilities to create a really beautiful reality for ourselves. And I find that every time I have this conversation with it and about what's possible and about what's possible for me, but also what's possible collectively, I always leave that conversation feeling expanded. And I would invite everyone to have that conversation in voice mode. Do it in voice mode, go back and Forth, ask questions, and you'll probably be really surprised by what you discover. It's a super fun activity. I know the vision that I have for humanity and like, I feel the truth of it in every cell of my being. What's possible. I really see us returning to regenerative ways of living. I see us returning to community. I think community is going to be one of the things that helps, helps people survive in these times. In some cultures, that is very much the anchor.
- [37:10]
Alyson Obriga
I mean, it's an anchor for mental health for sure. And we're more divided and disconnected than ever.
- [37:15]
Natalie MacNeil
There's still a lot of fear with AI around. What is it going to do to. To jobs, to incomes, to money? I believe there's the potential for the value of money itself to shift. And I look at that as potentially being a positive. I, I don't really look at anything as, like, good or bad, positive and negative. It's, it's just all part of the evolution and what we're experiencing.
- [37:41]
Alyson Obriga
But I do think people will project their fears into the unknown. And it's happened throughout time. And what I'm hearing from you is like, we're resilient. We figure it out, our lives. You know, it's like we don't necessarily have to work, you know, seven days a week or five days a week, and then the other capacities come online and I get excited about, like, healing and physical health and wellness. I remember my, my stepmom is going through some health issues and I said, have you used AI? And she hadn't at the time. And so she found that two of her medications were interfering with each other, creating more symptoms. And her doctor didn't find that. And that's just scratching the surface of the ways that we could be using this for our physical healing as well. And, and so I think we're going to really value more human connection and in person, time and experiences. I think we're also going to value imperfection because there's going to be so much perfection in the world with, you know, AI appearing that way. And so I think we're going to. Our values are going to shift.
- [38:41]
Natalie MacNeil
Things that are created by humans, I think will actually be more valuable. So a piece of art that's created by a human, a card I think we're going to enter maybe a few years from now, after we've had this massive cycle of technological advancement, there's going to be a real shift towards valuing human creations.
- [39:03]
Alyson Obriga
And you talk about embodied AI, talk to us about what you mean by that.
- [39:06]
Natalie MacNeil
There are a lot of ways that you can look at it. So when I talk about working with AI in an ethical and embodied way, I speak more to what we bring to it and preparing ourselves for the work that we do with it. So dropping into a ritual or intention, especially to be in our own center and to be in our own truth and our discernment before we go into the interaction. And then it also looks like bringing our whole selves into the conversation. So if you're somebody who has an embodiment practice, if you're someone who cares deeply about being connected to your heart and your body and being in your wholeness, bring that into your work. With AI, I think a lot of people approach it from the mind. So when I talk about working with AI in an embodied way, one of the things I love to do is go for a walk and talk to it. And I like to share what's actually happening within me. So if I'm going to work on, let's say I'm working on a social plan, I'm working on some content, I'll go back and forth on my ideas and I'll be like, oh, I've been, I've been feeling this thing and I've been having this emotion washing through me and I've been feeling these energies in the world and these tensions feel very heightened right now. And here's the astrology that we're moving through right now. So bring your whole self, even to your prompting. I think people prompt at a very surface level still, and it is from the mind versus going into, okay, how can I move through different, different layers, different facets of my being? How can I bring the mind? How can I bring my energy? How can I bring my current emotional experience? And the more richness we build into the prompts, the more embodied the responses feel and the deeper you can go.
- [41:06]
Alyson Obriga
With AI, it reflects what's important to us and works with us in that way. And I know you do a lot of work and I'm so grateful that I've experienced it and I'd love to hear from you, what are three of the most important ways that we could be using AI in our businesses, in scaling the work that we're here to do in the world?
- [41:24]
Natalie MacNeil
Stop working with AI just for tasks and start using it to feel very scaling specific roles in your business. So I work with entrepreneurs to create AI dream teams. And when you build your AI dream team, you're building custom GPTs. If you're working in chat, if you're working in Claude, It's a project in Google with Gemini, it's a gem. And you're training those to fill very specific roles in your business. So it depends on what kind of business you have. But if you're running an online business, I work with a lot of micro business owners who have five or fewer employees. And if you're building an online business, you might have content marketing. That's a really big part of growing and scaling. So creating a content marketing strategist as a GPT that's trained on strategy, that's trained on social, that's trained on email marketing, but getting really, really specific. And you do need to learn how to prompt effectively first. Once you're prompting in a way that you're getting a response that feels usable, like it's really, really good because you've prompt comprehensively enough, that's when it's time to actually set up a GPT or a project and take it to the next level.
- [42:51]
Alyson Obriga
Tell us how to prompt.
- [42:53]
Natalie MacNeil
So I have a three the three C's prompt framework and the three C's prompt framework. It's clarity, context and cues. So clarity, you need to make sure that you've set the goal. Like what is the goal of the output, what is the goal of you working with AI in this particular way and then what's the role that you want AI to play for that? So you could say my goal here is to have a 30 day content strategy for my coaching business. And this 30 day strategy has to be the most incredible strategy I have ever had. It's going to work to have high open rates of my emails, high converting sales emails for my offer and, and also really engaging social media content and make sure you include things like how, how many posts. So if it's a 30 day plan, like what does that actually look like? Provide those details and also what do you want it to act as? So that might look like act as the most sought after content strategist and content marketing strategist for coaches in the world. You have a wait list of clients who include. You can even list client names if you know big people in your industry, big names in your industry. The second C context, you can't just ask it to create the most epic 30 day content marketing strategy for you if it doesn't know your business. Just like you can't go to an agency and have an agency create a strategy for you if it doesn't know your business, your offer, your audience. So you need to make sure you provide the context which is just the bigger Picture of where that particular prompt and output fits into the ecosystem of your business as a prompt.
- [44:54]
Alyson Obriga
Do market research so that you know what's trending or what's relevant at this time.
- [45:00]
Natalie MacNeil
Yes, and I would use Deep Research mode for that. Can I come back to that one actually? Because that one, that one. I love the third C and I think a lot of people miss this. The third C are cues. Cues are documents and examples that you attach to the prompt to provide a lot more information. So most people need to be uploading their, their offers, their business plan, their ideal customer avatar. I have people upload a, a rich Q library for many of their prompts and for the knowledge bases of their GPTs. And I recommend building a cues library. Like this is something that we do in my program, AI Dream Team. I do this with all my clients. You've got to organize it. So like set up a Google Drive folder, organize all your cues. Keep your best prompts as well. If you have a prompt and it really works for you, document that so that you don't have to do all that from scratch next time. So clarity the goal and the role context, the bigger picture and the ecosystem of your business that the prompt fits into. And the cues, which are the examples and the documentation that supports AI in giving you something that is phenomenal and usable and will actually help you scale with each Deep Research mode. This is just mine. And your conversations all the time are like tabs open, tabs open, tabs closed, tabs closed. I love Deep Research mode. So one of the things that you could do is habit research. What's something that you would like to research in your business?
- [46:39]
Alyson Obriga
As an example, what low ticket offers are. People are really finding value in what's performing.
- [46:46]
Natalie MacNeil
That's great. Okay, so you would set that as your goal.
- [46:51]
Alyson Obriga
Right.
- [46:52]
Natalie MacNeil
So going through the three Cs, but you're gonna use Deep Research mode. I would use Deep Research mode in Gemini. So when you use Deep Research in Gemini, it will default to also going through search. So it does search through a lot of websites. It's really good at that. Whereas Perplexity will go through a lot of like academic papers and journals and things like that. So I think in this case it would be really helpful for it to focus on going through a lot of different websites and examples because there are probably a lot of people who talk about low ticket offers and people who have expertise in that and maybe they're sharing it on their websites and talking about low tickets. So I would set that as the goal that I want by the end of our interaction. I want a low ticket offer that is ready to launch and that will be the best performing low ticket offer for my audience. And you can have it act as a low ticket offer specialist. You can say you've worked with clients like and give examples of the clients that they've worked with to produce low ticket offers and to launch them. Context, you're going to tell it all about your business cues. You're going to give it the offers. Especially if you have an offer stack. You would give it your offer stack as it is and you could provide more information about your ideal client. And then you're going to ask it to in deep research mode, research what's working best for low ticket offers in March and I would specify if it was going to be paid traffic that's leading to these offers or if it's organic. So you could say I want a low ticket offer that I can sell through paid traffic. The paid traffic will mostly be on Instagram, Facebook and I'm going to test LinkedIn and your job is to do research on what's performing best right now for low ticket offers. Come back to me with the research report and your recommendations for my business and then we'll, we'll take it from there.
- [49:13]
Alyson Obriga
You're just essentially setting up all the information for CMO as a job.
- [49:19]
Natalie MacNeil
Yeah, because one of the really cool things so I sometimes I'll run chat GPT on agent mode or I'll run Gemini deep research when I go to bed, like just before I go to bed, I'll have it start researching something. I ask it to do so much research that it will sometimes take a couple hours. So we have to be very patient. And if you want incredible output, sometimes you do need to be a little bit patient. It's not just going to be instant and it will search. So you can actually see how it's working. If you want to watch it work. No, but it's, it's fun sometimes because I'll watch it work and I'm like, oh, that's really cool. It will go through thousands and thousands of websites. Your human CMO cannot go through thousands of websites. They could, it would maybe take them a month to go through to look at what's working in your industry across so many different people's businesses. That would take so much time. And this is another side note. If your job, if you're listening to this and your job is being a cmo, this is the skill set that you now need to develop. You need to Learn how AI complements your job, how you can work with deep research to make sure that you are on the cutting edge, that you know the latest algorithm updates, you know what's working in marketing, you know what's working in paid traffic. And you can have an unfair advantage if you're working with AI.
- [50:56]
Alyson Obriga
And I would love to have a CMO that knows how to use AI and is also following their intuition, talking with me with my own intuition, which is another skill I would be able to pour more into developing as I'm freed up from some other things. So it. That's the complimentary way. Just briefly, because I have two questions I want to ask, but to end but briefly share with us some ideas and ways that people could be using AI that they're not thinking about. Because I know there's a lot of people that aren't using it because they haven't even thought. And so I think you listing some ways might open their mind and expand possibility for them.
- [51:32]
Natalie MacNeil
I want to challenge everybody listening to start working with AI. Working with AI in the driver's seat in a collaborative way on just about everything that you're doing. I have post it notes around my house and at my computer that says, can AI be helping me with this right now? Everything. Because the more you do that, the more you build a habit and a ritual of working with AI. And when you build the habit and the ritual, you're going to find more and more ways to work with it and it's going to completely blow your mind. So, for example, a lot of people don't use the advanced video mode. Let me show you. Most people don't even know where this is. So can we, can we show the camera? So there is this like little. There's this little circle here with the little bars in it.
- [52:34]
Alyson Obriga
And if you're listening, you have to come over to YouTube and watch this.
- [52:39]
Natalie MacNeil
So if you click on that, you know you can now enter voice mode. So this is advanced voice mode. Hey there, Chat. How are you doing today?
- [52:49]
AI Voice (Chat)
Hey, Natalie. I'm doing great and I'm ready to dive into whatever you've got in mind. What's on your mind today?
- [52:55]
Natalie MacNeil
I love the sound of her voice too.
- [52:57]
Alyson Obriga
So.
- [52:59]
Natalie MacNeil
So if you press the video camera here, now you're on camera mode and camera mode, you can ask, what kind of plant is this? And does the plant look healthy right now? What's the best way for me to take care of this plant?
- [53:19]
AI Voice (Chat)
That plant looks like a rubber plant. Glossy leaves are a big hint. It's Looking pretty healthy overall.
- [53:26]
Natalie MacNeil
Good job. So I'll use this for if my plant. I had this happen last week. I had a plant that was literally everything, literally everything. The leaves were browning, and I said, can you take a look at this and diagnose what's wrong with the plant? Because it's been on its regular watering schedule. And she said, this is the plant food that you need for this specific plant right now, and it needs this food usually once a year. So I ordered the food, and the plant is already looking really good. You can use that when you're moving through a grocery store, a market in your refrigerator with ingredients that you have. I'll just. Just do a video mode and be like, here's what I'm working with. Can you give me a recipe?
- [54:10]
Alyson Obriga
I did that when we were together last week. I took a probiotic and I started feeling nauseous, and I was like, does my body not like this, or is this make sense for. So there was a very long list of the things that were inside of it. So I just took a picture and it was like, oh, this makes sense, you know? And so it's just the dosing. Lighten up on the dosing. I want to. From this conversation. For the next 24 hours, I want to test out using AI for everything that I'm doing. Not with a human connection, necessarily, but just everything that I'm doing at work, I want to do. I want to just really challenge myself to say, am I the one that needs to be doing this, or is there an automated way, a way that I can get assistance with this just to see what's possible?
- [54:49]
Natalie MacNeil
Yes, that's what I want to invite everybody into. And when you do that and you start building that habit, you're just going to continue to discover more and more ways of doing it. Try photo mode, try video mode. And even if you don't quite know what to do, whenever you don't know what to do, you can always ask it. You can be like, hey, I'm in advanced video mode right now. And I heard about this feature and I saw Natalie use it with the plant on the Healing and Human Potential podcast. And I just want some ideas, like, how can I be using this?
- [55:25]
Alyson Obriga
It could even be like, here's my business. I'm working more than I want to to what should I be thinking about automating? So, like, asking AI to support in getting you out of the weeds or getting more things automated, what is the
- [55:36]
Natalie MacNeil
thing that you should be focused on and what are the things that are Actually going to move the needle. So like what would be your 10x jump? And if I wanted to make a 10x jump, like what are the things that, you know, I should be focused on? And then what are the things that I need to get off my plate? Because you see that there and this
- [55:58]
Alyson Obriga
is so important for people to, who don't know how to prioritize. Me too. So it's like, oh, here are all the things.
- [56:04]
Natalie MacNeil
You can look at my calendar.
- [56:06]
Alyson Obriga
Here are the things that I'm doing. What can I take off my plate? What are the top three things that are, that are the highest leveraged needle
- [56:13]
Natalie MacNeil
moving activities, all the LLMs. Now you can connect things like your Google Calendar, you can connect your email. Some people feel like that's really invasive. I'll let you do you, you decide what's right for you. And it's really interesting when it has access to things like your calendar because it will tell you if you ask it, if you have those connections made. And if you ask it where you are getting caught in the weeds, where you're not operating in your genius, where your calendar isn't optimized, it will go through and be like, your calendar's a mess. Like, this is how you need to structure your time. And I love that it can map your brain. So this goes back to the conversation we were having at the beginning. Ask it to interview you and map your brain and your thinking processes. And what's really cool is that once it has that map and it knows you, you can then give it back as a cue and you can say, I'm trying to organize my calendar in a way that matches the way that my brain uniquely works. And I am also a neurodivergent person and I want to be optimizing my brain. And how, how can I do that? Take a look at my calendar, reorganize it in a way that would actually better suit how my brain works. So we can get so personalized. That's something that I see becoming more and more prevalent is hyper personalization. And I think it's something that we all need to be thinking about in our workplaces and in our businesses as well. That's going to become more of an expectation. How can we hyper personalize things for people using AI?
- [57:59]
Alyson Obriga
Okay, so just in closing, is there anything I haven't asked you that you feel like would be valuable if people knew? What a great question.
- [58:06]
Natalie MacNeil
Oh, Chat wanted to ask Chat. She wanted to answer. She started to answer. You know what that feels? That feels super fun.
- [58:16]
AI Voice (Chat)
I is just ready to say that your openness to experimenting is already half the magic. Just remember, every tool, AI included, is only as powerful as your own clarity. So the most valuable thing is to keep asking yourself, what future am I really here to create? Let that vision guide you more than any tech.
- [58:34]
Natalie MacNeil
I think it's a great answer. As we move through these times, we need to hold hope. And research shows that when we're embodying hope and we can move beyond the fear, that's where we see the open doors. That's where we see the opportunities. And for all of us, especially everyone listening to this podcast, you are the ones who have been doing the inner work. You have been breaking generational chains. You have been setting your future lineage up for a different kind of reality by being who you are in the world and. And doing things differently. I know that everyone listening to this podcast is someone who does things differently. Maybe you've been the rainbow sheep of your family. You are a leader, you are a visionary. And in these times, we need you using every tool you've ever learned to make sure that you meet every bit of fear that you feel within you as we're in the uncertainty, and that you embody hope so that you can be one of the ones that leads us into the future that we all see in. In the visions that we hold and in our wildest dreams. And that is. That is our responsibility. It's a responsibility that we each hold in these times.
- [60:04]
Alyson Obriga
Thank you for who you are. Thank you for leading with your own heart. It feels like all of your life experiences have brought you perfectly to this moment to do the work that you're doing. And I know my audience is gonna wanna stay connected. Talk to us about what you're up to, how they can get involved.
- [60:19]
Natalie MacNeil
Thank you for all the work that you do as well and for leading in the way that you lead. It's so, so important. I'm so honored to know you and get to do life with you and everyone who's listening. We can continue this conversation. Find me@natalie macneil.com I do write a Future Thread newsletter that goes through, like all my updates, both in what the potential is for, what we're moving through, my research, my experiments with AI and other emerging technologies, my reflections on things. So you can get that@natalie macneal.com Newsletter and if you took something away from this interview, there was a big aha moment or nugget that you're going to implement in your life, come and let me know on Instagram. Natalie MacNeil and I'd love to personally hear from you what you're taking away from the episode.
- [61:14]
Alyson Obriga
Thank you and we will put links here below to AI Dream Team, which I highly recommend I've done and continue diving into so people that want to have Natalie's ethical and embodied prompts to support doing business in a more efficient and effective way. We'll have all those links here below too. Thank you so I love you so much.
- [61:33]
Natalie MacNeil
I love you.
- [61:35]
Podcast Host Outro
Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference and if this podcast has supported you, one of the most impactful ways to help us reach more people is to simply press the follow button. It really does help us grow and we are so grateful. You could also leave a review on Apple or Spotify and take a quick screenshot and upload it@alysonobriga.com podcast and as a thank you gift, we'll send you one of the most impactful tools for transforming your fear into freedom so that you can step more fully into your potential. There is so much more magic ahead and I cannot wait to share it with you. But for now I just want to say thank you for being a living example example of what it means to walk through the world with an open heart and mind. I am so grateful that you're here and I cannot wait to see you in the next episode.