How to Be Ambitious Without Losing Your Relationships

Summary

Healing + Human Potential Podcast
Host: Alyssa Nobriga
Guest: Natalie Ellis (Founder of Boss Babe)
Episode Date: July 7, 2026
Title: How to Be Ambitious Without Losing Your Relationships

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Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, Alyssa Nobriga and guest Natalie Ellis explore the delicate art of balancing ambition with maintaining healthy, nourishing relationships. They discuss how high-achieving individuals can honor their drive without sacrificing personal connections, well-being, or authenticity. The conversation weaves together personal stories, actionable coaching wisdom, and the deep intersection between entrepreneurship, psychology, and healing. Natalie also shares behind-the-scenes examples from her experience leading one of the largest communities for ambitious women and launching her new book, “The Freedom-Based Business Method.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Priorities By Season

• Intention & Seasons: Natalie emphasizes the importance of recognizing different life "seasons" and intentionally choosing two or three top priorities for each phase. Trying to do it all leads to guilt and burnout.
  • “You cannot have 10 priorities. Otherwise they are not priorities. They are a to do list.” (01:56, Natalie)
• Letting Go of Guilt: It's normal for priorities to shift—what matters is being fully present with your chosen focus and releasing the guilt of not doing it all.

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2. Radical Honesty in Relationships

• Resentment vs. Honesty: Suppressing honest conversations out of a fear of conflict can quietly ruin relationships via unspoken resentment.
  • “We can often think that the honest conversation is going to ruin relationships, and I think it's the resentment that ruins relationships.” (06:33, Natalie)
• Self-Abandonment: Both hosts candidly share how people-pleasing and self-abandonment stem from childhood conditioning and lead to losing oneself and building resentment.

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3. Patterns Rooted in Early Life

• Parentification & Survival Strategy: Both Alyssa and Natalie discuss their childhood roles as caretakers, which built patterns of self-neglect and a drive to “make everything okay.”
  • “From a very young age, I abandoned myself because I wanted my life to be calm. … I just wanted everything to be okay. So I took everything on and I never really learned what it looked like to be taken care of…” (09:25, Natalie)
• Awareness & Healing: Traumatic experiences and major life events (like childbirth) can illuminate deep-seated patterns, providing opportunities for healing and change.

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4. Transforming Trauma & Rewriting the Script

• Birth Trauma as a Teacher: Natalie recounts her two childbirth experiences, illustrating how reclaiming her voice and advocating for herself reshaped not only her healing, but her approach to business and life.
  • “I was vocal and I was so clear. You will not operate on me until I give you the go ahead… What a beautiful experience it was to rewrite that.” (12:55, Natalie)
• The Power of Somatic Work: Alyssa offers guidance on integrating and healing past patterns through body-based, somatic practices.

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5. Boundaries, People Pleasing, and Self-Integrity

• Comfort With Loss: Natalie explains how building boundaries required becoming comfortable with potential relationship losses—and maintaining inner alignment regardless of others' perceptions.
  • “I had to get very comfortable with every outcome being on the table. … Do I still trust myself? Am I still in integrity with myself? Can I still sleep at night knowing my side of the street is clean?” (21:46, Natalie)
• Doing the Inner Work: The real transformation happens internally; once you're okay with yourself, it's easier to speak up and hold boundaries.
  • “There's no substitute for doing the work yourself.” (23:51, Natalie)

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6. Freedom-Based Entrepreneurship & Identity

• Non-Attachment to Outcomes: True inner freedom comes from being less attached to goals, while still feeling motivated and involved.
  • “It feels really good to have a goal and it feels really good not to be attached to it. … I'm so happy with how all of this has gone…” (27:12, Natalie)
• Self-Trust Over Proving: Both agree that chasing goals for external validation ultimately feels empty. The real growth is insourcing validation and acting from internal alignment.

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7. Understanding Burnout vs. Functional Freeze

• Burnout: Complete depletion—no amount of short rest helps, and motivation tanks.
• Functional Freeze: Operating on autopilot, achieving goals but feeling numb, constantly distracting oneself to avoid inner discomfort.
  • “Functional freeze is where you're in a place of dysfunction without really recognizing it. … You're functioning in many ways, but you're refusing to sit with yourself because there's a lot more going on.” (32:26, Natalie)
• The 80/20 Principle: Most entrepreneurs could let go of 80% of their activities with little effect on results; true leverage comes from clarity and focus.

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8. Focus, Follow-Through, and Delegation

• Systems Over Control: Entrepreneurial “freedom” requires installing systems—not micromanaging or over-controlling every detail.
• KPIs and Letting Go: Use key data points to monitor progress, then allow the team (or AI!) to deliver, intervening only when needed.
  • “As long as my data is right, … I have to trust. If things are in the green, then things are being taken care of.” (41:09, Natalie)
• Key Business Levers: For most businesses, focus on two things—generating leads and converting them.

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9. The Role of AI in Freedom-Based Businesses

• AI as a Leverage Tool: Natalie challenges listeners to delegate and automate using AI—not just as a chatbot or copy tool, but as a “team member” that can build dashboards, websites, collate testimonials, and more.
  • “If it's not making you money, saving you time, or getting better client results—less questions, should we be doing it?” (48:40, Natalie)
• Practical AI Exercise: Natalie’s actionable exercise for listeners—use Claude (AI tool), enter “plan mode,” prompt it with a business problem, and push back using “You do it” to build automation confidence.
  • “AI is better than us at most things. … Even if you're doing something that's working, you might ask yourself, could AI do this better than me?” (55:40, Natalie)

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10. Advice for the ‘Messy Middle’ & Success Principles

• Readiness is a Decision: Success doesn’t require feeling ready—it's about focus, responsibility, resourcefulness, and aligned action.
  • “If you continually wait until you're ready, you'll never do the thing. I still don't feel ready, do you?” (57:46, Natalie)
• The Four Qualities for Success:
  1. Personal Responsibility
  2. Aligned Strategy (starting with “What do you want?”)
  3. Consistency with Community
  4. Resourcefulness
• Everything Is Learnable: All of the key success qualities can be developed and trained.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You can have it all if you don't do it all.” (03:44, Alyssa quoting Natalie’s book)
• “If you can't be truthful in the relationship, you don't have a relationship.” (07:32, Alyssa)
• “Protecting relationships means that you have to be really honest, and you have to maybe say no when you want to say yes, and you have to get good at that…” (05:06, Natalie)
• “Ready is a decision, not a feeling.” (57:55, Alyssa)
• “AI is better than us at most things… Could AI do this better than me?” (55:40, Natalie)
• “Being okay with yourself… that will change every single thing in your life. … If there's one part that they rewind and listen to, it's that.” (61:52, Natalie)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:54: Introducing the central tension—ambition vs. relationships
• 01:54–05:45: Seasons of focus, setting priorities, and the cost of “doing it all”
• 05:45–08:50: The pivotal importance of honest conversations to prevent resentment
• 08:50–13:56: Tracing roots of self-abandonment to childhood and trauma; birth trauma story
• 16:08–17:44: Somatic healing and working with triggers in business
• 21:30–23:57: How to build boundaries and tolerate discomfort with difficult outcomes
• 27:07–29:36: Navigating the fear of failure and practicing non-attachment to goals
• 32:26–35:37: Burnout vs. functional freeze, letting go of extraneous work
• 37:49–43:27: Focus, follow-through, and practical delegation tips
• 48:40–54:22: Using AI as a leverage tool—complete testimonial automation example
• 57:46–61:33: Resourcefulness, confidence, and advice for entrepreneurs in the “messy middle”
• 61:52–62:48: Final takeaways—being okay with yourself as the foundation

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Actionable Takeaways

• Embrace “seasons” in your life and business; let yourself be fully present with what you choose to prioritize, and release guilt about what’s deprioritized.
• Have the hard, honest conversations in both personal and professional relationships to prevent long-term resentment.
• Use business challenges as mirrors for inner healing, tracing recurring patterns back to their origins and working with them somatically or therapeutically.
• Build systems—either with people or AI—to create a business that supports your desired lifestyle, not the other way around.
• Ask yourself regularly: “Do I need to be the one doing this? Can AI or someone else help?”
• Nurture personal responsibility, consistency, resourcefulness, and self-trust—they are the universal keys to sustained success.

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Listener Challenge

• Try the Claude AI exercise: Choose a routine task you’d like to delegate or automate, enter “plan mode,” and repeatedly prompt “You do it” until you uncover AI’s true potential as a business team member.

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For more on freedom-based entrepreneurship, check out Natalie’s book, “The Freedom-Based Business Method.”

Connect with Alyssa Nobriga and explore additional tools and workshops via the show notes.

Transcript

[A]

For people who are highly ambitious, they want to pursue their dreams, but they don't want to lose their relationships. What would you say?

[B]

Firstly, be intentional about it. What are my two or three top priorities in this season? It's not easy when you're really ambitious to pour into all areas of your life all the time. I really do think something's got to

[A]

give, and I don't think people know how to navigate resentment. I think that they just push it down.

[B]

I've learned the resentment lesson the hard way. We can often think that the honest conversation is going to ruin relationships, and I think it's the resentment that ruins relationships. From the conversations we you talk about

[A]

the difference between burnout and functional freeze.

[B]

What I would first say is you could let go of most of 80% of the things you're doing and your business results wouldn't change.

[A]

You're trying to be everything for everyone else. Then you lose yourself. Do you have insight as to where that started in your life?

[B]

When I had my first daughter and trigger warning for anyone with birth trauma. You might want to skip this part.

[A]

What if building a wildly successful business wasn't about working harder, but creating success in a way that actually supports your life and freedom? Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast. In this episode, we're going to explore how to pursue your ambition without sacrificing your relationships, burning out, or losing yourself along the way. We'll also unpack freedom based entrepreneurship identity and why doing less can actually lead to more. Joining us is one of my best friends, Natalie Ellis, who's the founder of Boss Babe. She's an entrepreneur and author and creator of one of the largest communities for ambitious women in business. This is a good one. Let's dive in. I'm so happy that you're here. I want to have a conversation about business, but from the lens of using your business for personal development. Because all of our patterns get projected onto our businesses. And so for people who are highly ambitious and they want to pursue their dreams, but they don't want to lose their relationships. From your experience, what would you say to people like that? How do they really honor their heart and what they want to create without losing their relationships?

[B]

I love this question because I I think everything is in seasons in your life and in your business. And we all know you cannot have 10 priorities. Otherwise they are not priorities. They are a to do list. And for me, what I realized is every season requires something different of me, whether it's more of a personal season or a business season. And What I really like to do when I know I'm going into a new season, firstly, be intentional about it. What season am I going into? What are my two or three top priorities in this season? Is it, you know, my, my kids, my marriage, my business? Okay, great. Well, guess what? I need to be all in there and I need to let go of the guilt of not pouring into to other relationships at that time. But it has to be a season because if that's how I'm running 24 7, that's not what I want my life to look like. So for my book launch, it was very much okay, I'm going into book launch for a month. I'm going to be all in. My top priorities are my kids, my marriage, my book. Beyond that, I don't have a lot of space and time. I'm going to be more delayed texting friends back. I'm going to be saying no to the dinners. But coming out of that season, how do I change up the structure of my priorities? How do I get my nervous system back in regulation where I can now pour into friendships and my marriage and my kids and my business? And I think everything like that comes in season and you just have to be really intentional about it. It's not easy when you're really ambitious to pour into all areas of your life all the time. I really do think something's got to give in each season. And if you constantly feel bad about not pouring into every single area of your life, you'll feel this constant guilt and always feel like you could be doing more because there's always more we can do. Ye, especially as entrepreneurs, the work is never done. There's always more we can give. And I think you have to give yourself grace with that.

[A]

Yeah, I like the seasons because it feels like there's a finite. It's not like forever and then you're really intentional. You can have conversations with people that you love and also the willingness to be to let. One of the quotes that I love that you have in the book is you can have it all if you don't do it all. And it's like, oh, okay, if what's really important is business and relationship, then I'm going to prioritize those things. But you said maybe three, not all of them. These are like the main priorities versus nice to haves.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And I mean even with your relationships too. And I think back to one conversation we had that I, I come back to a lot when I'm thinking about how I approach relationships and how I'm pouring into relationships. I remember you had asked me if I could support you with something, and at the time, I was 10 out of 10, stretched. So stretched. And I felt like I should have been honest about that, and instead I wanted to say yes, because I just had in my mind, you'll figure it out. You'll have more capacity. And I remember saying yes, of course. I just couldn't show up the way I would have liked to. And I remember you saying to me, you know what? I would have rather you just said you couldn't because, you know, this doesn't feel good for me. I'm sure it doesn't feel good for you. And in that moment, I had such a realization of, actually, it doesn't serve everyone for me to say yes and not be able to follow through on that. What serves me and my relationships is that honesty.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that I. I think is incredibly important, too, when you're ambitious. Because we want to support everyone. We want to pour into every relationship. We want to do all the things you physically cannot. And something's gonna give, and it's. It's a relationship or it's yourself. And what I've realized is protecting relationships means that you have to be really honest, and you have to maybe say no when you want to say yes, and you have to get good at that, which I think can be really difficult. But I come back to that conversation we had a lot because it was such a lesson that actually you would have felt way less stretched and stressed if you just had an honest conversation first.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And I love. I don't remember that, but I love that you learned something from that. And I love meeting in truth, because if you don't, that's when the resentment builds up. And I think resentment is a silent killer of relationships. And so one. And I don't think people know how to navigate resentment. I think that they just push it down. And I'm curious. It sounds like being honest with yourself is one of the things you've learned. What else have you learned to help people navigate resentment, even. Even in, like, working dynamics? Because I can feel if I abandon myself to do the thing my team needs or what I think the company needs, I'm going to resent myself. Right. Like, that can build and be a silent curse to any relationship. What would. What would you recommend for people that. So you could. They can learn from your lessons early on, like being able to speak your truth. What else?

[B]

I've learned the resentment lesson the hard, hard way. I put that on Hard mode. And so what I have realized is we can often think that the honest conversation is going to ruin relationships. And I think it's the resentment that ruins relationships from the conversations we didn't have. And I can see in my life where a relationship hasn't worked out because of resentment. I've been so afraid to have the honest conversation because I've been so afraid to lose the relationship or to disappoint someone, to let someone down. But actually I've just built up resentment because I haven't spoke my truth there. And that's been the thing that's eroded the relationship over time. And so I think you really have to be honest in your relationships and I think you have to know who you can and can't have certain conversations with. And if you feel like you can't be honest and that will ruin a relationship, if you can't speak what's real for you, you need to examine those relationships, which is hard to say totally.

[A]

If you can't be truthful in the relationship, you don't have a relationship.

[B]

You don't.

[A]

Yeah. And it's interesting because oftentimes things that we're, we're trying to avoid something from happening in the strategy to avoid it, we create it.

[B]

I did that.

[A]

So it's like I'm trying not to hurt you and then I'm hurting you by not sharing. Honestly, eventually it's going to come through.

[B]

It does. And it's painful on the other side of it when you take a look at that and you realize for, for me I just realized I had self abandoned in so many different areas of my life. In pursuit of being a great friend or, you know, a good person or keeping the peace or people happy. I had just self abandoned in so many different areas to a point. I didn't know what I wanted, who I was at my core. I was just part of lots of other people and their vision for me or their vision for their life and how I could play a part in that. And I was just giving so many pieces of myself away. And I went through a full dark night of the soul that lasted many, many, many nights where I had to really come back to myself and start to understand what, who I was, what I valued, what I cared about, what I wanted. But I self abandoned for so many years. That was a really hard thing to even understand what I wanted anymore.

[A]

Yeah. It's almost like you're trying to be everything for everyone else and you lose yourself and what you want. Do you have insight as to where that started in your life. Because for me, I know that I became the self appointed parentified child. I was the glue. Even though I was the youngest, I really took care of everyone. And that same pattern started showing up on my team. I was abandoning what I wanted to do, make sure everything was okay. And so I think helping people make those connections so that they're not just trying to focus on the mirror, which is the business and important, but what's the root of it? Because as we shift inside of us, it's much easier to shift those practical things in our business.

[B]

Yeah, I was parentified child too. I was the eldest of eight and from a very young age I learned to read the temperature of a room and I would behave in certain ways to make sure there was not big emotional reactions. When there was a big emotional reaction happening in my house, I would be the easy one or I would be the one that makes everything okay. You know, I grew up in a house with a lot of domestic violence and substance abuse. And when that was going on, I would try and get in the middle and make things okay. I would be the one calling the cops, calling the ambulance, taking my siblings away and putting them in a different room and making sure they didn't know what was going on. I was always the one taking on everything that was happening at home and then showing up at school the next day as if nothing happened. And just from a very young age, I abandoned myself because I wanted my life to be calm. I wanted my life to be happy. I wanted my brothers and sisters to be happy. I wanted my mum to be happy. I just wanted everything to be okay. So I took everything on and I never really learned what it looked like to be taken care of, to have my own needs. I felt like I was an easy child if I didn't have needs. And. And for me, that did come out as resentment in so many different areas of my life because I was giving, giving, giving. But underneath that, I think there was part of me that just felt like, well, why can't I have a need? Why can't I say what I want for once? And that all shifted for me when I had my first daughter because I'd gone through my entire life like this very subconsciously and I had beautiful relationships in my life and there was places I was speaking my truth, but there was a lot of places that I wasn't.

[A]

And were you aware of that, that you weren't speaking it or was it hard to see?

[B]

Somewhat, yeah, I was, somewhat. There was one particular relationship in my life where I was very aware of it, But I was terrified to speak my truth. Terrified because I was in a dynamic where there was big emotional reactions and I knew speaking my truth would cause an emotional reaction. And I didn't feel resourced enough to handle that. Yeah, I didn't.

[A]

That's important that you said that you didn't feel resourced to handle their big reaction.

[B]

I didn't. I would. I was. Was worried what I would do in that situation. So whenever there was a big emotional reaction, I just. If I felt like I'd caused it by saying what was true for me, I'd immediately say, no, don't worry, it's not a problem anymore, and let them have their reaction. Yeah, but when I had my first daughter and trigger warning for anyone with birth trauma, this, you might want to skip this part. I had a C section and my anesthesia didn't work. And going into that, when I replay it back, I feel like I could have stopped the process. I could have stopped what was going on the room. I could have slowed the room down if I was vocal enough, if I had said, stop, this has not worked yet. I was calm. I. Cat was kind of saying, this hasn't really worked. Like, quietly. I didn't want to interfere. I didn't want to be a problem patient. And went through that experience, came out the other side of it, started to process that trauma again of what had happened, start to realize that dynamic could have done. Gone differently had you spoken up. And immediately I was shown all of the areas in my life where I was still doing that. And that changed everything for me because I was also, you know, after you go through an experience like that, for me, I. I was in full freeze. My entire body was shut down, My brain was shut down. I wasn't functioning the same way I was used to. And from that place, when I say dark night of the soul, that for me, it's like I shone a light on every area of my life and committed to doing it differently. And that wasn't an overnight process. It was a very long, drawn out process of healing and committing to do things differently. And my second time round, I had my second daughter eight months ago. Same thing happened. The anesthesia didn't work, which now we know on the other side why it didn't happen. I had one spinal tap and three epidurals before it worked. But I was so vocal in that room from. From the minute I got into the operating the. I was vocal and I was so clear. You will not Operate on me until I give you the go ahead. To every single person in that room. And I was making them repeat back to me that they understood what I was saying, that I was really in charge of how this was going to go. This was my birth. This is my body. And what a. I didn't want to have a C section the second time around, but what a beautiful experience it was to rewrite that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I remember I cried with happiness during it because I was rewriting that trauma, just reliving it. And I was so grateful. Grateful that I got to do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it ended up being beautiful. But yeah, it was. It was that moment that showed me wow. Where for 30 years I'd self abandoned.

[A]

I mean the. The traumatic experience was really the mirror and the lesson that you heard and you got and you could see where it was showing up in all your life, including your business. And where it was originally developed as a safety strategy because of trauma growing up. Wanting to make sure that everything was okay so that you survive. So the innocence within it, the ways that trauma can mirror where. What is this trying to teach me? How can I use this to get free? And the willingness and the courage to have a voice and to change and rewrite your. Your future is really beautiful. Have you ever wondered why some coaches, therapists and healers create clients consistently and then others stuck wondering where's the next client going to come from? The reason is probably not what you think. And after supporting thousands of practitioners over the last 20 years, I found that the people that create the most momentum aren't necessarily the most experienced or even the most visible. They're the ones that have learned to trust themselves, to communicate the value that they provide and learn to create clients in a more aligned way. And that's exactly what I'm teaching inside my free workshop. Confidence that converts. This is where you're going to learn a new tool to embody deeper confidence. Three grounded, strategic ways to create ideal clients right away for free. And learn how to sell in a way that feels natural, authentic and genuinely is of service. And so if you're ready to stop second guessing yourself and start creating clients with more ease, just click the link below to save your spot while it's still available and free.

[B]

Yeah, it was amazing. But it's. It's so interesting how it still never came naturally to me. I'm very curious if it ever will. But to. To get into that operating theater and advocate myself, I had to psych myself up so hard because it just so didn't Come naturally to me. And afterwards I was like, you did that? That felt so good. And it felt like it did rewire something where I was in an Uber the other day and the Uber driver was not paying attention to the road and he's on his iPad. And again, in that situation, every ounce of my being is like, nata, don't say anything. Don't say anything. I was like, excuse me, can you please focus on the road while you're driving me? And it felt so good to. To flex that muscle because it is a muscle. I think that I'm. I'm relearning how to just advocate for myself. But it feels so good every single time I do it.

[A]

It's great. And I also like the full circle of the original trauma. And going back to almost the same exact experience and getting to rewrite it is huge. And just for people listening, we can also go back to those younger memories and rewrite those younger memories. Like, what did I need to hear or experience the saf, the protection, and offer that to our little ones as well to try to heal it at the root, in addition to rewriting and making it easier in the present.

[B]

And with that, it's inner work.

[A]

Yeah. So like, if there's a memory that comes forward, I really like somatic work. So if there's. I'm say I'm triggered by abandoning myself in my business, I might get curious about where that is activated in my body. And then I would close my eyes and just be with the sensation in my body. Sometimes a memory, an image, a story would come up, up, and I would follow the thread to see if there's. When was the first time I felt this way. Doesn't always have to be that way because you could work it somatically. But if there's a younger memory that repeats, it's. Oftentimes we unconsciously create the past patterns so that we can fully feel what was not felt then and integrate it in our nervous system now and then when we integrate it, we allow it. It moves through our body. We stretch our capacity to be more resilient and then change the pattern. The practical is a lot easier. Easier. So for you to have a voice in that situation.

[B]

I love that. I have another question on that, because one thing you said there was say that shows up in work with the team, and I think it's very easy in that situation for you to default to being frustrated with the team.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you pull the thread. You do your own inner work. How do you handle being in relationship with Others who don't pull the thread and do the inner work, and they make it about the team or they make it about you in that dynamic,

[A]

it's hard it to blame is such a toxic trait, and it seems like it works. And so if I blame that person for blaming me, I'm caught in the same pattern. And so I always take personal responsibility. What is life mirroring to me about myself? How can I use this to learn and grow? And oftentimes in the beginning of people doing personal development work, they're like, they want everyone to see it, and they also want everyone to do their work so that their life's easier, but you don't need them to do their work work for you to get free. And sometimes, I mean, I've had some fierce. I think we've all had fierce teachers where people are just blatantly blaming us and we're like, this isn't mine, but if it triggers something in me, it's mine. And then I work the trigger where, oh, I'm not comfortable with their discomfort. Oh, I think I did something to part like to make this happen, to make them feel this way. That's where I'm hooked in codependency. So I'll use them as a mirror to teach me what's that pattern that they're playing out, and where else does that show up in my life? Oh, that was when I abandoned myself to care for my mom because I didn't think my mom was okay, Okay, I can be with myself. And now I'm not trying to change them. And I'm not defending, which the first act of war is defense. Byron, Katie's quote. So if. If I'm not defending, then I'm soft. I may choose not to have them in my life.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I'm not triggered. Anytime there's a trigger, it means that there is a projection happening. There's something inside of me that I need to tend because if I try to change them, then I'm gonna have to try to change every other template of that same pattern versus really shifting it at the root, which is like, oh, when people blame me, how do I be with that inside of myself? Can I stretch the capacity to be with somebody in blame without taking it on?

[B]

And have you chosen to keep relationships in your life where you have people that don't take responsibility?

[A]

I find that they naturally move away. It doesn't need to be a harsh, like, oh, you're. You're dead to me. Because sometimes that can come from defense and protection. There's like this fierce one that's like, you're never. You know. And I have had. I've had somebody that. One of my best friends, she wanted to call it quits in our relationship. And I let myself grieve that and I moved on. And it hasn't stayed with me. She's also cut a lot of other people out since then. And so I can see the pattern. I have love and compassion, but it's not. I know it's not mine. And so I don't get hooked into it. And that feels incredibly liberating. But I think sometimes people think, oh, if I do the inner work, then I'm going to tolerate it. But you can have boundaries. It's not like you're a doormat. You can stay true to yourself, but there's no, like, it's not coming from this harsh place. And I know people pleasing and boundaries are huge for people. And so I loved and honestly, I've sat. We've worked together like in business partnership and I loved it. And I've always really admired how in my experience. And maybe I play a different dance with you in our patterns, but you've stayed true to yourself. You have really clean boundaries. In my experience of you as a friend, as co. Working together. And I've always admired that. And I think people are challenged with boundaries and people pleasing in general. Any wisdom that you want to share with them around how they can start to speak their truth or risk saying the thing, even if it may lose the relationship, but then you don't lose themselves.

[B]

For me personally, I had to get really comfortable with the idea of losing people, of a relationship not working out the way I would like it. I had to get very comfortable with every outcome being on the table.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And be okay in myself. Am I still okay if she doesn't like me anymore? Am I still okay if this person goes and changes up this story and tells a different story about me? Do I still trust myself? Am I still in integrity with myself? Can I still sleep at night knowing my side of the street is clean? So I did all of that work on myself first. And I just made sure in any of the interactions, I'm really proud of how I showed up. 90 of the time. I'm proud of how I showed up. I spoke my truth. I did it in a way that took responsibility for myself. And I just had to get okay with the possibility of anything else happening. And that was the hardest thing for me. I also. One of the biggest lessons I learned, which was the biggest blessings Was I would have this fear. I always had this fear of being left out. Or I remember this dynamic in middle school where I was in a friendship with two other girls. So it was always was the three of us, and it always felt like I was the one left out. And so in my life, I started putting myself in situations where I wouldn't be left out. And I had such a fear of, you know, if I speak my truth in one relationship, maybe they will go and say something to someone else, which means I get put on the outside, I'm on my own, I'm not safe. And I had to really face off with the part of me that wasn't okay with, you know, not telling her side of the story and really become comfortable in my side of the story and not feeling like it has to be public or talked or anything like that. I'm okay with me, and anything else that happens is not in my control. And that was all inner work. There was not anything I could do in relationship that would change that. It was all inner work. And then I just also make sure it's done respectfully. I make sure it's done in a responsible way. And I think that really helps. But there's no substitute for doing the work yourself. Yeah, if I feel good in myself, then I feel so much. It's so much easier for me to have a certain conversation or hold a certain boundary or not jump into people pleasing.

[A]

Yeah, it's that staying true to yourself. But the other key thing I just heard you say is you're okay with the outcome.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And actually I think that's one of the super. The hacks for success. Because a lot of entrepreneurs, I think it's Gabor Mate that has a quote around entrepreneurship is a trauma response. Response. I believe I can see that. Yeah. And it's like the entrepreneurs can get obsessed with the outcome and the goal, and the stronger the obsession, the deeper the wound. Not that that's bad, but that's just feedback that we want to tend to that inside of us. The obsession with the partner, the obsession with the followers, the obsession with money. It's like, okay, where am I outsourcing my okayness and how do I insource that and take my power back? Not being a victim to the goal. And so. So when you say that you have space for whatever the outcome is, that's freedom, that's real. That's the real flex. And doing the inner work to get there actually supports you in having more surrender. And I've watched you, and I really Again, just really respect your integrity with yourself and to do the inner work. Like, even when there was a point where you were thinking about selling your share as a boss babe, you were willing to explore the deeper fears underneath entrepreneurship because a lot of people are hustling for their worth and they're afraid to slow down because they're afraid of what they would be faced with, which is the vulnerability underneath it, the fears that come up. And I watched you be willing to do the inner work, to be like, who am I without success? Who am I without all of this? And I think that that's actually ironically supported you in being more successful because of the inner freedom.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that inner freedom supports the outer freedom because then it can just fall into place in this more surrendered way, rather than being hyper vigilant and frantic trying to make it something. And everything that's worked in my life has always come from that place, that more surrendered action, like high involvement, low attachment. And so if there's any wisdom that you've learned from that experience or anything that you want to share for the person that's so scared of doing the inner work because they're going to slow down or be left behind, I would love to hear, because I think there are people that are. Are sitting at home in the messy middle, just like in angst of what's going to happen.

[B]

I think one of the most freeing things you can do is go to the root of the fear. Okay, so you're afraid. Let me give you one example. I am in a book launch right now. I'd love to hit the New York Times list. Right. I was very afraid to speak that goal out loud. And I was so curious as to why. And so what I like to do is I play the game. Let's really figure out why. What am I so afraid of? And it's like a mindset mind map for me. So I put the goal in the middle, hit the New York Times. This. I'm so afraid to say this out loud publicly. Why? Because what if I don't hit it? Okay. Why? Well, then I. I look like a failure. Oh. So I'm very curious if, if I look like a failure to other people because I've set a goal out loud, what does that mean? I think about myself. I'm not good enough. And I really. I explored every area of that and what I ended up. I played it all out. I sat with myself, I looked at what was true, what was not. And I got to a place where I'm actually screaming that goal from the rooftops. And if it happens, great. And if it doesn't happen, great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I am not attached to that outcome as much as it would be.

[A]

It would feel great.

[B]

I would love it. I'll celebrate. When I even visualize myself getting that, I also visualize myself not getting it and my reaction is kind of the same. It's. Oh, awesome. I got it. Oh. Oh, bummer. I didn't get it. Let's try again. I don't feel I know my life's not going to be changed either way. I know the way I feel about myself is not going to be changed either way. It feels really good to have a goal and it feels really good not to be attached to it. But I had to go all the way to the part of me that was just afraid to even feel like I could say the goal out loud. And I think I see that a lot in. In chasing goals where you're so you're forcing and pushing so hard you lose all the joy in it. And then you might hit the goal, but it feels empty because what did you have to sacrifice to get to that goal versus just that one switch of going all the way to the fear. Getting okay with that can switch how you approach something. I'm approaching my book launch in a very fun way because I am doing the work. I think the work's really important and I'm so proud of how I've shown up regardless of the tangible outcome. I'm so happy with how all of

[A]

this has gone and also doing it. There's so much I want to unpack and what you just shared because the fear of failure is so big for people. It's like, well, who am I then? I'm a failure versus like I failed at something that your identity is not caught up in it. And identity is the core root of a lot of suffering in relationships and in business. But also with this book, you have to have an eight month old. Right. And so you chose to do it in a different way, which requires a lot of self trust as well. It's like, okay, here's the goal that I have. What's another way that I can be self honoring while having a baby and not just getting on 150 podcasts. How can I do it in a way that serves me and hits the same goal that I have? And you did it that way. And so I imagine that that kind of resourceful thinking comes from having worked with the fear first.

[B]

Yeah. Because if I'm. If I'm operating from the fear, then I'm doing everything and I'm just frantic and worried and I need to do xyz. This is the way it's always been done. I'm not tapping into myself at all of Natalie, you have done the thing, you've shown up for yourself multiple times. What feels really alive for you? What are you good at? How can you lean into that? And can you trust that if you do your best, you're okay with the outcome? And I can.

[A]

And you making space first for the fear of failure ironically opens you for more success because you have capacity and then you're not. It's not then just this book launch then, because if you don't face that fear, it's going to be projected onto your next launch and to the next goal. And so proactively being willing to go into the thing, doing the courageous, facing that fear and for people that are like, how do you do that? You can question the assumptions of who you would be if it didn't happen. Like if the book fails, then that means and write down all the stories or if I don't get whatever I want, this is all what's going to happen. Question those one at a time. Another way is to feel it somatically in your body. Where is the fear of failure? And then feel that directly in your system and see if you can, even without a story, discover what's the sensation. Maybe there's even pleasure in it where you bring a sense of curiosity and openness to it. That's you stretching your capacity and your resilience and your nervous system to feel more emotionally talking to that part of you to be like, it's okay to feel scared, like I got you. You're not identified with it, you're just feeling it. So I'm kind of giving people different ways to work it.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

So that it's more, it's like, oh, let me, let me. Because they want what you have. That level of freedom. And I love the freedom based business method is inner and outer free freedom. And it really in my eyes starts from the inside. Right. The freedom to feel all of it is real freedom. I'm not opting out of this experience. You like, you're saying you're having the courage to go into it. And ironically then that freedom reflects in your business as well. Yes.

[B]

And yeah, it's interesting because I feel like it's a business book. And one of my friends reflected back to me, he said, I wish you had a quote in there that the freedom based business method is helping you get free of time, time and mind. Because it really is both. It is. I have experienced all of the outer freedom and feeling completely trapped and feeling like I have none of the inner freedom because I'm so hooked on the need to have all the outward success. And so to have both. My hope in writing it is that you don't have to go all the way to reach every single goal you've ever had. To realize it's important not to neglect yourself in the process. That's my hope, is that as you grow one, you grow the other two. And I think entrepreneurship can be the biggest vehicle to freedom out of freedom and inner freedom. That's why I love it so much.

[A]

I know. Yeah. And you can use everything in your life for your spiritual awakening, for your personal development, and this book supports that. And I also know that you talk about burnout, which is huge for entrepreneurs. They're like, I'm going to leave my 9 to 5 to work 24 hours a day. And so for people that are overwhelmed, stressed out, burnout. I know that you talk about the difference between burnout and functional freeze. Can you help us understand the difference for just walking people through with where they may be in their process?

[B]

Burned out is when your body really is completely depleted. You are burned out. You are not taking care of yourself at all. You're doing everything and anything. You just are in a place where you are very, very depleted. And it's not like one night of sleep is going to bring you back. You just feel like your motivation, your energy, all of it. The tank is low. That is burnout. Functional freeze is where you're in a place of dysfunction without really recognizing it. You're going about your day. You're functioning at work. You know, you're hitting your goals, you're functioning in your relationships. You're showing up, but you're not feeling a lot of it. You are numbing out in a lot of ways. You're kind of afraid to be alone. You know, if you're even on the loo, you're scrolling on your phone at night when you finally sit down, down, you're putting on your tv. You are functioning in many ways, but you're refusing to sit with yourself because there's a lot more going on. A lot of us can get into that place and we can call it burnout. Oh, I'm just so busy. Oh, there's just so much going on. But then you had those 10 minutes free and you still kept yourself occupied because you were afraid to slow down. That is Nervous system dysfunction. And there's a big difference between the two. What I would first say when with either or is you have to stop doing everything. I can promise you that being successful in your business does not come from doing everything all the time. Actually, I would argue being successful in your business is being incredibly clear on what moves the needle, which is probably 20% of the things you're currently doing. And doubling down on that. You could let go of most of 80% of the things you're doing and your business result wouldn't change. But you're doing it all because you think you should be doing it all. You're afraid to let people down or you're afraid to, to not be seen doing it all, that you're just doing it all. So firstly, you have to slow down, you have to take stuff off your plate to give yourself a chance to look at where your nervous system is at, to look at how you're taking care of yourself. And it doesn't need to be hours of therapy. It doesn't need to be taking hours to yourself every day. Being in the gym every day. Fill in the blank. Blank. Sometimes it can be. You get a 10 minute break in your day. You put your phone down, you close your laptop, you just sit, you bring awareness to your body and find out where you're at. How am I functioning right now? How am I, how am I feeling? Is my mind racing? Am I telling myself a lot of stories? Or am I able to push back from my desk, take a breath and just be present without the need to jump into something else? Little moments like that, you'd be really surprised how they can contribute to running a very successful business in a functional way without burning out. I think if we push through 247 constantly, we're always busy. You will limit the amount of success you're capable of. You will limit your ability to expand your window of Torrens. Your capacity. That is the thing that will allow you to grow to new levels of success. Because if you cannot hold it, you will not get it. It will break you.

[A]

You.

[B]

And that's been my experience is every time I want to go to a new level of success, I have to get myself first. I have to figure out what is required of me to be able to hold that and then go to it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And continue to increase my capacity. And the people I admire the most are the people who have been able to train that capacity with them in themselves, who don't break under pressure, who are able to recognize when pressure is, is just created and false and can manage themselves in that process, I think is a superpower.

[A]

I don't think enough people talk about that. As your business grows, your nervous system capacity also has to grow because the things that come to you, nobody's talking about that. And I remember one time I called my friend Leila, I was going through something and she's like, oh, yeah, that's just a Tuesday. I'm like, oh, okay. And it just, it lipped my mindset of like, oh, I can handle this. Right? This is normal. And I do think in the beginning of like 0 to 100k, there's something around being willing to test and experiment and try and be good at different things and wear different hats. And then there's a point where you doing a lot of the things and keep testing is holding you back from the focus. And I would say one of them, like the number one block for entrepreneurs is spreading themselves too thin, always doing too many things. And in some ways the distraction of scrolling or trying to do it all, like the ambition is the distraction is the way that we're like, if the hustling is there and it's not coming from that regulated nervous system, then you're going to get taken in lots of different ways, especially depending on how you're designed. And so if you do have a big capacity doesn't mean you should be doing it. Also, going to your next level requires more delegation. And when I was reading your book, I literally read it in one week and I just devoured it. I was sharing screenshots to my team and the delegation metrics and things. I'm like, I gotta really go to my next level around. I love how clear you are of like, this is the end goal and this is what I want. And I. If entrepreneurs really get focus and follow through, that will support them. And when, when we know what we should be doing but we're not doing it, kind of just sitting in the fire a little bit and having those. Maybe it's a chime at one hour throughout the day to just consciously breathe into what's coming up. That's been a practice. If I want to react, act on slack. I'll just take a moment to breathe, to feel the thing I've been avoiding to get present with it and not, not move from that place. And it. Those small pattern interrupts really do help shift things.

[B]

They help a ton. And there's a few things that I've done that have made a world of difference. I don't have emails or slack on my phone. You know, if I'm not on my laptop, I don't know what's going on in the external of people coming at me. Because as an entrepreneur, as a CEO, so you're going to have a lot of input. What's most important to my results is my output.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And if I spend 80% of my day managing inputs, what am I moving forward in the business? And when I switch that, when I take all the things off of my phone and I focus on my output first, I get my stuff done first, my business moves forward.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Whereas if I start my day to reactivity to everybody else's priorities, to everybody else's, else's desires of me, I might get to 3, 4pm, feel like I've accomplished nothing. I haven't moved my business forward. And that's where I move into the exhaustion phase of, okay, I've got to get it all done by 7pm or I'm behind or all of this other stuff. And what I've also found is a lot of people will be more resourceful if you're not jumping in all the time.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. I'm hearing that where it's like, if you're not just reactively responding, then they're like, oh, I can do my job or I can figure this out, which supports it in the long run.

[B]

Yeah. And it's tricky, tricky for entrepreneurs because we often get into business because we have a, an idea of how things should be done and we like it to be done a certain way. And the idea of letting go of that control is very hard because most people will not do things exactly the way you want them to do it. So one example this morning I again, I don't have any of these apps on my phone, so I don't really know what's going on in the day to day. I know exactly what's going on in the company. I know exactly what the KPIs are, I know exactly what everyone's role is. But I don't need to know how it's being done as long as it's being done. And I check in on the scorecard, I see that things are in the green. Good. If I start to see things in amber or red, of course I'm going to step in. But this morning I was driving, I took a look at my calendar this morning and I saw that I have a couple of big things coming up this week. Before I went off on book tour, I had told my team if I am not actually the person showing up, I Don't want it to be on my plate. Please make sure everything else is taken care of. And I realized this.

[A]

This.

[B]

There's this one thing in my calendar that I'm showing up for, but I know I'd asked my team to handle it, but I hadn't seen any check in from it. And on the drive, I called someone on my team and said, hey, I've got this thing on Wednesday. I'm wondering if it's being thought about. And they said, yep, we've got it handled. Would you like to hear the plan? They give me the plan. And hearing it, I was like, okay, this is 80% of what I would like. Now I have two choices in this moment. I can spend the next hour of the drive micromanaging this person to get it done exactly how I want it, or I can figure out what. When good is good enough. And so what I did was I said, cool, that's. Let's say this thing's happening over the space of an hour. Give me the first 15 minutes to frame up things the way I would like and get in. The things I would like to execute on the next 45 minutes is yours. You do it the way you've planned. And so I got to have my input. They got to do it their way. It's probably now 90% of the way I'd like to like it. That is more than good enough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I spent the drive in silence versus spiraling and micromanaging and controlling. And that is how it shows up in many different areas in delegation, many different areas in my team. But I have to come back to as long as I my data is right, as long as I'm tracking accordingly, as long as I have great processes and systems in place, then I have to trust. If things are in the green, then things are being taken care of.

[A]

Yeah. To let go of the rest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because then you get your life back. And I love that you have the KPIs. And for people that, even for those that don't have teams, just focusing on the two most important handful of things that are important. And for a lot of my audience, for people that want to create clients, it's creating leads and then converting those leads. Yeah, that's it.

[B]

That's business in a nutshell. That's the business master class you all need.

[A]

It's like, focus on those two things. Let go of the rest. They're nice to haves, but do they support leads? Do they support conversion version? And obviously you're going to deeply serve Your clients. That's. That's an understatement. Like, that's the foundation of it. But if you just focus on those things and have your team focus on those. I can feel like, even as you're saying the micromanaging, I can feel where it's like anytime that there's micromanaging or control, there's fear underneath. So I can feel another level of my letting go. And it's like if that scorecard is really clear and it's being accounted for, which I'm just setting up right now, my business business, then it's like, great. Then, you know, it's like, I want to have this ship built from point A to B. Did it get sh. Did it get built? Did it. Did it get to point B? Okay, if it did, then great. And then people feel celebrated and supported. But we have to do the inner work around the. The lot. The fear. Because the fear is really where the control comes from.

[B]

Yeah. And there's a few tactical ways of doing it. So let's say one of the things on your scorecard is your email. Email. You want a certain number of open rates. Click through rates and revenue driven from email. Cool. One thing is that could all be in the green, but the emails being sent to your list could be so off brand. And so what you wouldn't say in that situation, done is not good enough.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It has to be done to a certain standard. And so if I'm handing off a new process like email, for example, it's not just about the data, it's about the gut check. And so what I will often say is I will step away from this process once I have signed off five emails consecutively with no edits.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And that's how I'll handle it. And so my team will send me something. I'll make an edit. Cool. The. The clock hasn't started for the five consecutive no edits yet. And we could get to four consecutive no edits. And if I start editing, we start all over again. Because we want to make sure we get that the way that that's going to represent the brand. We don't want to dilute the brand. That's very important long term. So it's both. It's the gut check and it's the data.

[A]

I love it. And where I'm realizing as you're talking, you're so good at systems and my brain doesn't think in systems. And so just being able to download your playbooks of like, oh, this is how you can run things. Then you give it to somebody to set those up. It then supports also. Yes, doing the work around the, you know, moving through the fear but also setting up the systems to be able to have that high level check. Super important, important. But again focus and follow through. Because if you're just starting, just focus on leads and converting them. If you're scaling, then it is about those systems with team to be able to delegate and let go.

[B]

Yeah, but even at any level, honestly it's about the leads and are you converting them?

[A]

That's right.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

Don't lose track of that.

[B]

That's the game of business. Even if you're at eight figures and you're stressed and there's so much going on, bring it back to basics. That's truly what is important in the business. Are you generating enough lead leads? Are you converting them? Are you delivering a high quality service or product on the back end? Rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. Let's put this, it doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

[A]

Yeah. And, and I know freedom based businesses is like what your jam is. What would be one of the number one pieces of advices you would have for people that want to build a freedom based business?

[B]

A freedom based business requires having freedom giving systems. And so at every level in your business business, you look back at what you've created and you ask yourself, how can I create this result on a consistent basis? Let me put a system in place. We way too often as business owners put ourselves in 10 different directions at once and we dilute all of our focus in 10 different directions and before we know it, we're a one man band playing 10 different instruments. It's really important at every single level when you get a process working because most of the time as the entrepreneurs, as a CEO, you'll be the person getting that system working. Once you've got it working, you figure out how can this process deliver consistent results without me needing to be part of 100% of it. And you start to create a system there. And maybe you work with AI, maybe it's a team member, maybe it's an automation. It doesn't have to always be team. But you figure out what that process looks like, then you turn your attention to another area of it. And what I will say is a freedom based business is not an easy business. It doesn't mean everything's going smoothly. There's never a fire. That's not real life and that's not something we should aspire to. But what it means is it's a business that reflects the way in which you want to spend your time most of the time. And it's a business that eventually you won't wake up one day and want to burn down. And we have to just be really intentional in every single season of what we're building. Most of the time, when clients come to me and they're asking me to solve this problem or do I do this? And all of the questions I always start with, what do you want?

[A]

I hear that. Yeah, what do you want?

[B]

Because we can create anything. I always say, any strategy will work. My strategy is no better than the next person. Any strategy will work if you work it. But what do you want? And if we get really clear on that and we build that, that's your freedom based business.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And for me, in every season it looks very different. Right now I'm getting into an ambitious season. I want, want exciting things. I want growth opportunities. I want to expand to the next level. For the last few years, I haven't wanted that. I've wanted a business that runs without me and that's felt really great. So it always comes back to, what do you want? And I go through that a lot. In the book, I talk about shedding the shoulds. A lot of time we're building businesses that we think we should have it. We should have followers, we should have this revenue, we should have a program as well as this, that and the other. Why you said the person on Instagram that you. You thought is. Is. Is writing the bible of business.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We need to understand what we want. Otherwise we will end up building something we don't want.

[A]

And also just looking at other people, what other people are doing, oh, I should do it the way they're doing. Or that's the way to succeed. But most people like coaches. I'm like, you don't need to use social media to create clients. That's actually, there's a much quicker way to do it. They're like, wait, what? So it's. And so just. And that's one of the things that you do is like, you find out, what is it that I want want? And then you do. You move forward in a path that's aligned for you and you still hit the metrics, but you do it in a way where you don't abandon yourself. And I think that's so important.

[B]

Yeah, I get a lot of people coming to me, how do I do this? How do I do this? I want to pivot to this. And I always say, what do you want? Okay, tell me what's working, Tell me what you're good at. Well, then there's our strategy.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's not what I'm doing. What are you good at? Let's double down on that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This isn't working. Is it not? Let's look at the data.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, it's working better. Better than you think it is. We are so quick to think everyone else is doing better than us. Everyone else knows better than us. Everyone else has discovered the secret that I'm yet to discover. Not true.

[A]

Yeah. And if you get clear on what, what do you want? How much do you want to make? How much do you want to work? You reverse engineer it. Like literally just created a quiz to help people reverse engineer it. Because I'm like so many coaches, therapists, service providers try to do all the things I'm like, that's gonna, that's gonna spread you thin, that's you're not gonna get the best results that way. Focus and follow through. And I want to also invite you to talk about AI because you talk and I think it supports freedom based businesses when you talk about AI and how you're using it in your business to free you up. It's a totally different way than everybody else that I'm hearing talk about it. And so I don't even know how to help people understand until I got on a call with you behind the scenes and you're like, oh, you could do this, you could do that. Can you share with people like what's possible so that they have a reference point? Because I think, think, I don't think

[B]

that they know anything and everything is possible with AI. And that's a blessing and a curse because what it means for entrepreneurs is they are, they are at a point where they can do more than they've ever done. And so they're putting more on their plate than ever before, yet it's not moving the needle. And so they're busier than ever before, but they don't have the results to show for it. So first of all, let's pull back if it's not making you money, saving you time, or getting better client results. Less questions, should we be doing it beyond that that I AI can support you in.

[A]

So sexy when you say that like you're just in your boss like it's so good. Cuz you're like the rule. Let go of the distraction. What's most important, you keep coming back to that. Sorry, I just want to interrupt You.

[B]

Thank you. One of the limitations is thinking AI is a chatbot. If you're just using AI to have conversations or to write your copy, you're using level one and there's a hundred levels. I like to use AI in a way that makes me money, saves me time, or drives better client results. And so I will think about things that I am doing on an ongoing basis that I could be delegating to AI. AI is very capable of building dashboards, of building websites, of building entire platforms, of becoming employees, of executing in your behalf. It can do anything and everything you want it to do. But first you have to get clear on what it is that you want. And so for anyone listening, I can sit and give you a master class in AI or I can give you a challenge. And my challenge is go find one thing in your business that you would like to not be doing anymore or that is costing you a lot of money that you don't really want to be spending money on anymore. So I'll give you a few examples. One of them could be collating all of your client testimonials. You might be doing that manually. You might not want to do that anymore. Another thing could be, every time you're putting together a landing page, you're having to pay a designer and a copywriter and a developer to to have it put together. You think there's an easier way. Another thing could be, every time you want to see how your business is doing, you're going and pulling data manually and putting into a screen a spreadsheet. In an ideal world, this would be presented to you every Single morning at 7am by a robot that says, hi, Natalie. Here's how your business is doing this morning. Here's how I recommend that you proceed today. Any one of those things is possible. So if you're listening and you hear that and you're curious, here's your homework work. You're going to go and download Claude. You're going to download it on your computer because the web browser will not do this. And you're going to navigate to Claude code. At the bottom, in the little chat bot chat box area, there is a button that says plan mode. You're going to tick that button. So you go into plan mode and you're going to say, claude, the problem I would like to solve is. And you give it your problem. Give me three paths to how we could do this. Submit it. Claude is going to propose to you three things it can do. You'll pick one and you'll run with it. And it doesn't have to be the. The exact thing you want to do, but it's a training process. I want you to see this process through to the end. And by the end of that exercise, you will have built AI confidence. That is the number one skill you need to work with AI. And one thing that will happen throughout this process is AI will tell you, I need you to go do X, Y, Z. I have three magic words that everyone needs to listen to. I want you to really lean in and listen to these three words. The three words are, you do it.

[A]

That's right. That's right.

[B]

Claude will tell you or I will tell you, I need you to go do X, Y, Z. It is capable of doing it all for you. But if it gets.

[A]

This is a good training and delegation. Yes.

[B]

You're going to say, you do it. And it's going to say, you're right, I can do that. Let me go do it for you. And you might tell it 10 times. You do it. Do it one of 10 times. It's going to say, actually, no, I really need you to do it for security reasons. And you'll say, okay, fine, that's a good excuse. Otherwise you keep saying, you do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you'll be really surprised what it can do for you.

[A]

I remember talking to you and I was like, well, I can't use Claude because it doesn't actually scan videos online. You're like, yeah, I can just ask it to download whatever it needs to be able to do that. And I'm like, oh, okay. Let me just push back. Yeah. Honestly, I have so many things that blow my mind when I'm like, oh, I am doing this, the testimonial thing. I just don't even get into the habit of thinking that I can automate some of these things and it can take people hours. And I don't, you know, I want, I don't know with the people on my team if they want to be doing all of these things, you know. Yeah.

[B]

Let me tell you one thing with the testimonial. So this is a great example. We have been running an accelerator program for a long time and we've never had a really dialed in testimonial process. What would happen is we'd see a win in the community and someone would screenshot it and throw it into Google Drive, or they would just send it in Slack and it would be forgotten about. And we had so many of these. And I one Saturday decided, I'm going to tell Claude to go fix this, and then hopefully by the end of the day, I will have the process done. So I told Claude in the morning, I have testimonials in Slack, in Google Drive Online, in my communities. I listed out all of these places a testimonial could be. I said, can you figure this out and just present me with something awesome? It's like, yeah, I got this. So by the end of the day, what Claude had done is it had pulled every single testimonial into a spreadsheet. There were about 6,000 cells of testimonials in this one spreadsheet. It then categorized them into different types of testimonials. Revenue, social media systems. There was about 10 categories. Then what it did was it scored them 0 to 100 based on how powerful the testimonial was. 100 is. This is an amazing testimonial. One was, ah, it's okay. Then what it did was it built me an entire website that shows all of the testimonials. It highlighted the best testimonials on top, then it categorized along the bottom. Someone could click social media, someone could click revenue. And it showed all the testimonials. It went and pulled the name and a profile picture for every single person who left a testimonial. It handled every single detail, published it to the web. And I had this website, and I still have this website.

[A]

How much time, time did that take you and how many prompts did you offer it?

[B]

It took me active time about 30 minutes and it took Claude about four hours. Wow.

[A]

I, I, as I hear like, oh, testimonials and inbox, I just keep, I'm, this is where I'm like, oh, I haven't thought about it that way. And I'm somebody that is proficient into some level with AI, so I just wanted people to start hearing other ways that they can be using it to support their freedom.

[B]

Yeah, you, you don't need to know how you want something to be done or how you want it to look, but you need to have the original thought of there is a better way to do this. And if you start with that, AI will tell you all of the ways in which it can think about doing this and then you can run with it. But it's the initial thought first of what if I wasn't the one to do it? Or what if this was possible? And it's possible.

[A]

Yeah. And I think that's part of the habit of thinking that needs to be cultivated.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do I need to be the one doing, doing this? Can AI support? Can the team support. And as we. I think I'm going to have a timer go off every hour to ask myself that question. Yes. Do I need to be the one doing this?

[B]

And historically, you know, those of us that run our own businesses, we are normally the best on our team at doing a very certain thing. News flashes. That's not true anymore.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

AI is better than us at most things. Yeah. And so even if you're doing something that's working, you might ask yourself, could AI do this better than me? And that's quite confronting for entrepreneurs because all the questions come up. Is I going to take my. Like all of the questions come up, but do you want to fight it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or do you want to roll with it?

[A]

I mean, I think anybody listening, we, we are in the, this age, like we need to adopt a lifestyle of, of working with it and doing it consciously and work the fears that come up and, and decide, you know, I think AI is fantastic. Externally, I am in inquiry around any chips and putting anything in my body that feels like that's a deeper inquiry that I would, I'm not jumping at at the moment.

[B]

Yeah. I'm in huge inquiry about AI in my kids too. You know, I, I love AI. I work with AI on a minute to minute basis of my day and I'm worried for my kids of what their future looks like with it and how I'm gonna be conscious about their introduction to it. And I think that's healthy.

[A]

Healthy.

[B]

I think we should all be. I. None of us can sit here. Even the smartest minds in AI in the world will sit and tell you they have no idea what it looks like. For me, the way I feel in control is I learn, I immerse myself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because the more I understand about something, the, the less fearful I am about it. And so that's been my process with it.

[A]

I think it's an intelligent way to navigate the fear, is to inquire into it, to look into it. I'm thinking of the, the entrepreneur who has like got this big dream in their heart and they feel this angst, like they're not there yet. And I'm just wondering if you have any words of wisdom at this point in your career to share with them about. Because I think that those people that, that don't feel confident, that really question if they're capable are usually the ones that are most capable because they know what they can do, but they're just comparing where they are to where they're going to be. And it can create a Lot of angst. And so I'm just wondering for those in the messy middle that are like, building something new or they're not quite there. They haven't even had their first mountain of success. Any words of wisdom that you want to share with them from your own experience?

[B]

Yeah, and I'm sure they've heard this before, but if you continually wait until you're ready, you'll never do the thing. I still don't feel ready, do you? No.

[A]

Ready is a decision, not a feeling.

[B]

It's not a feeling. You know, even running a events for this book, I'm. I haven't run events in many, many years. I've been hibernating, having babies. I did not feel ready. Like, you know what, the book is out now. There is no better time than now. If I keep waiting till I'm ready, the book will be collecting dust. Let me do it anyway. I think that's really, really important. And the second thing you've said, focus, follow through. The way you describe that is, is it. We have to let go of everything else. And if you really go all in on something and, and you create your own momentum, you will be successful in it. You have to know when to pivot and when to. To adjust. You have to listen to feedback and listen to the data, listen to your gut, but you just have to go at it and give it everything you've got. And please stop waiting to feel ready, because you'll never do it.

[A]

I love that. It's just like that. Focus on that one thing for the next three months. I would say one new goal every three months because you get that focus and then the, the plane lifts off, you've got it on cruise control, then you can start another thing and you can pass it off to your team or AI but you have to have more focus in the beginning. Yeah. And yesterday we're masterminding at the house with a bunch of friends and you just kept being like, I know I'll be successful whatever I put my mind to. And to me, that highlights the inner qualities of what it takes to be successful, which to me, there's four qualities. And I wouldn't say they're all inner, but four qualities to be successful. I'm just realizing this now. It's personal responsibility, which I see you do. We both, like, live by that. I also think that's why our friendship is so easy. We just, like, own it and just ref. Reflect to each other and support each other. The second is having an aligned strategy, like you guys kept saying. What do you want? Not what other people are doing. What do you want? The third is having consistency. And I find community supports that it makes it way more fun. You don't feel so alone in it. You don't need to do it alone. Especially for entrepreneurs, it can feel solo and having even us doing masterminds yesterday and just like being with friends and the other.

[B]

I would say resourcefulness.

[A]

Exactly. Yes, yes, yes. Because then, you know, during a pandemic, during an economy crash, doesn't matter what's happening, that you can iterate and try different things and if you stay with it long enough, it'll work out.

[B]

Yes. There are two types of entrepreneurs. The the person that says, oh, it's not working and the person that says, let me figure it out.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And the person that figures it out will win. Is if you sit in the. It's not working. I need someone to tell me what to do. I need to like that is a hard place to create success from.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

If you go out and figure it out anyway and you get resourceful, you

[A]

will get results and you build your trust in yourself so that yesterday you're like, it doesn't matter what I'm applying. I know the same. If I go for something, I'm going to make it successful because I have those qualities. So I want people to hear that they can have those qualities. They nurture that also with AI changes the landscape of business. We're going to adopt to it, we're going to learn about it and see how we can iterate and learn and use it to support our growth and our integrity. And so I want people to get that there are just certain qualities you can nurture within yourself to have what it is you want. And also if you are outsourcing your okayness to an expert, someone else, or thinking your business is going to save you or a partner is going to save you. It's like, no, let me find my power, power and let me use everything for my growth and my freedom. That you will feel more confident, you will feel more trust in yourself to navigate the changing landscapes. You'll feel happier and more aligned.

[B]

Yeah. And what I love about those four things that you shared is not one of them is innate. Every single thing you can learn, you can train yourself to do. It doesn't matter where you're at right now, those four things are available to you.

[A]

That's right. That's right. So those are the things to focus on and to keep nurturing as quality face.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

And So I just love you so much. And I. I want to ask you one more question before we close. Is there anything that you feel like in this conversation we haven't addressed that would deeply serve people if we spoke about it?

[B]

No. I think I would just highlight the being okay with yourself part that will change every single thing in your life. It will change your business. Yes. It will change the way you feel about your business business, but it will elevate every area of your life. And so I hope if there's one part that they rewind and listen to, it's that. Because I wish I heard that 10 years ago.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would have changed everything for me.

[A]

What do you think would have been different?

[B]

I think I would have negotiated contracts differently. I think I would have walked away from certain situations earlier. I think I would have advocated for myself. I think I would have built something more aligned and true to myself than versus what I thought I should have. I think I would have just acted very differently.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that would have been a great way to shortcut a lot of the heartache that has taught me a lot of lessons, but I think it would have been a great shortcut. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And you've used your business to evolve you and that you keep using it to learn and grow and to stay aligned. And I just really respect in love and appreciate your willingness to lead with an open heart and mind. And it's just such a gift to have you as a sister in my life throughout all these years and to share your wisdom in this book. Like you guys, I devoured this in a week and I don't read physical books. I usually do audible and I usually don't finish them.

[B]

This is such a compliment.

[A]

And I front to cover. Front to cover, which is like screenshotting, highlighting. So I just highly recommend if this conversation resonated with you, get the freedom based business method. I will put links here in the show notes below. But just thank you for who you are. Like you, you live by serving. And you, you, you embody the work. You don't just teach it, you live it.

[B]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[A]

Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference. And if this podcast has supported you, one of the most impactful ways to help us reach more people is to simply press the font button. It really does help us grow and we are so grateful. I just want to say thank you for being a living example of what it means to walk through the world with an open heart and mind.