← Healing + Human Potential
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- [00:00]
A
The most important thing if we want to know who we really are and how we feel about something beyond the people pleasing mechanics that are hardwired into our consciousness. We must start a day with at least five minutes of silence. Every single person on this planet is a vessel for something greater to move through us. We are here to burst non physical into the physical realm. Burst as a thought into an active step, actually anchoring into this dimension.
- [00:26]
B
What has helped you trust the process of versus trying to control the outcome?
- [00:31]
A
If we are attached to the outcome, the process can be anxiety inducing. If we just make the process about the process and not the outcome, then there's nothing to be worried about because we're no longer attached to a certain delivery of it.
- [00:44]
B
People hyper focus on the what and not enough on the how because it's not just the product or the service, it's who we become as we answer the call, as we say yes to whatever is inside. It will help us cultivate parts of ourselves that we hadn't developed yet. What if the unknown isn't something to figure out, but something to be in relationship with? Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast where today we're exploring how to trust yourself in the unknown, hear your inner guidance without overthinking and stay devoted to what's actually calling you forward. We'll also explore tarot and archetypes not as tools for predicting the future, but as mirrors for self discovery. Joining us are Blue of Earth, a speaker and teacher exploring unseen forces shaping the human experience. And Lily Ashwell, an artist and teacher working with the symbolic language of the soul. Together they created the Heavenly bodies tarot and it's a beautiful conversation. Let's dive in. I'm so happy you guys are here. I wanted to jump right in and just talk about. For somebody who has a new path that they're feeling into, it could be a career path, a creative project or a body of work and they're moving towards it. But oftentimes fear comes up. It's part of the equation. And when fear comes up they start to control and rather than, you know, part of the work would be to do work around clearing the fears which would be really helpful. But from your guys journey specifically, what has helped you really trust the process of your calling versus trying to control the outcome.
- [02:14]
A
Before I create anything, before I stand on stage and give a talk, before I make a painting or draw a drawing or create anything, there is a voice that comes up and that says what the bleep are you doing? What are you doing. Are you sure that you're actually skilled enough to create this and all of this? Imposter syndrome. And a projection that the outcome is going to be horrible comes up. And so instead of being like, oh well, I'm an artist and I stand on stage and I give talks and do all the things and it becomes so easy. It's actually not. It's acknowledging for me at least that there is a very real part of myself that doubts and questions every time before I create something and to just acknowledge that it's there, but not let that be the deciding voice. And so once I actually just acknowledge that that voice will show up at some point, that that's not actually a prediction of the outcome, but that voice can be there, but it's just not in the driving seat. It's not the thing that is going to be like, oh, you know what, you're right, this is going to be horrible. So I'm going to stop right now, I'm going to go do something else. And I'm not going to blow my own mind because I'm going to create something that I didn't know I could create yesterday because it's a horrible idea. And I listened to that voice. And so I think for me that's the most important thing is to let the voice be there, but don't give it too much validity.
- [03:38]
B
That's right.
- [03:39]
A
That is the absolute truth. And that voice ultra contributes to making it so good on the other side when I just stick with it and then I blow my own mind and then I'm like, wait, this is, this is amazing. And I didn't know I could do this yesterday. And that feeling is so much richer because the voice was there but it wasn't listened to. And so, I mean, I don't know if the same thing is for you, Lily, when you create. We're both artists and illustrators and writers. However, that voice, I don't think there has been a single time where I've created and that voice hasn't been present. What about you?
- [04:16]
C
I feel that voice in so many areas of life, but when it comes to making art, it's the one space where I feel completely at peace with approaching something from the lens of process before productivity. And I think that in this time we're living in with AI and you know, we can go to ChatGPT and create a very wisdom packed, articulate, full length book in minutes. And the, the words are perfect, but there's a hollowness there because it hasn't been arrived at through lived experience. And I am so grateful for the creative process to be a place where we can actually move through the, the steps and the mistakes and the alchemy where we can actually arrive at something true. And of course, you know when for me, that voice can come up when I'm comparing myself maybe to someone else. But when I come back to center, I know that my creative space is where I can actually remember that it's the journey and not the destination and that I trust my ability to make something beautiful.
- [05:52]
B
And I imagine that trust came from experience because in the beginning it's like self doubt comparison. All the things come up and I love that it's normal and it gets to be there and that it gets to be honored. Because anything that we resist, we're giving our energy to. And it gets louder so it gets to be honored. And then what I also heard is that actually by listening to it, like even perfectionism can make you double check something and make it more beautiful. So it gets to be included, but not driving. And then over time you start to really trust the process. Like, oh, this is natural. This is. Every time I go on stage or say yes to something, it's going to come up and it's welcomed.
- [06:26]
A
Well, Lily says something that made me kind of go ding. If we are attached to the outcome, the process can be anxiety inducing.
- [06:35]
B
Yes.
- [06:36]
A
If we just make the process about the process and not the outcome, then there's nothing to be worried about because we're no longer attached to a certain delivery of it. And so Lily immerses herself in the world of creation, not because she's trying to create a physical thing that to hand out to other people, but because just in the art of making, the creation itself is already the journey, then why would there be anxiety for the outcome?
- [07:01]
B
Yeah. And I think a lot of people hyper focus on the what and not enough on the how.
- [07:05]
A
Yeah.
- [07:06]
B
And the how is just as important, if not more important, because it's not just the product it's like or the service. It's who we become as we answer the call. And I always say there's a divine design within desire. As we say yes to whatever's that calling inside it will help us remove, let go, or cultivate parts of ourselves that we hadn't developed yet. And so that is more important. And I love the trust in the process. And so for somebody that is answering the call, they're in the middle of it, but they're feeling blocked. And oftentimes my experience is that when we have A genuine heartfelt desire and a prayer. It comes forward, but it doesn't always look the way we think it should look. And so there's a moment of, or a long moment of like I wanted this, but it's not turning out the way I thought it would. How can somebody help discern between this just being part of the hero's journey of you're going to hit against blocks as you answer the call versus when is it out of alignment and not to move forward? How can somebody help decipher what the difference is in their process?
- [08:09]
A
Okay, so we just created a body of work, took us three years. And I can tell you there is so many blocks specifically for me that came up. There would be moments where I'd be like invited to just write one prayer and I would age regrets to like my 8 year old self and I'd have a tantrum and I was like, I can't write it. She was like, what do you need? You need some cookies? You want me to run you a bath? Like you need some cold compress? Because I'm trying to, you know, we've got this, this, this goal to get to a certain point and I got really in my head and like questioning whether I'm an artist or a writer or if I could actually really bring this through. And I think that in that stage right now we can talk more about it later. But with the rise of AI that it can be like, well, I'm blocked. I'm not a writer, I'm not an artist. This block is obviously telling me I can't do it. So what would it look like to hand over my creative process to a few prompts to generate it for, for me, but then lose the entire journey of what it means to carve ourselves out as a physical vessel so that we can become a heavenly body and call something through us that when we read it or when we look at it back, it actually gives us the transmission and gives us the medicine through our physical body. And that is on the other side of acknowledging there will be blocks. And what is the block here to teach us as opposed to the block being a representation of that I can't do it.
- [09:31]
B
Yes.
- [09:32]
A
And so we have come across so many blocks over the past three years, but on like for us to stay in the pulse with it and not let the block be a defining end, but actually invitation to a deepening of us carving out the soot of the chimney of our creative process and to recognize every single person on this planet is a vessel for something Greater to move through us and to actually understand what that really means. Whether it may not be an artist by trade, but we do. We are creatives. We are here to birth something non physical into the physical realm and to recognize it, once first started as a thought, and then it moves into an active step that then can create something, whether it's a body of work, or if it's. If it's some food or if it's furniture or if it's painting the walls or having a vision of what the podcast set wants to be and then actually anchoring into this dimension. Every single person, I believe, is a creative. If you have a physical body, you have the vessel from, from one dimension to the next, whether you're even, you know, being a woman and having a womb and being able to birth a child through this body and into this dimension, we are here to create. So that that creative block is also an opportunity to ask for me personally, where am I distracted? Where am I fragmented? Where am I spinning many plates at once and then expecting myself to be able to stay focused, to write this passage? And who is this passage asking me to become so that I can be the vessel to birth it? And that was one of the biggest questions for me, is like, well, what does it mean for us to actually become the vessel so that this can move through us? And so the journey for me was, if I'm feeling blocked, where is my energy scattered? If I'm feeling blocked, where am I distracted? If I'm feeling blocked, where am I actually filling myself with noise as opposed to getting quiet enough to be able to hear what is asking to move through? And so the blocks were just an invitation to get deeper within myself as opposed to create a story that says, oh, I can't do this. Let me hand this over to AI and hand over the process of the creativity, the uniqueness and the listening of something beyond ourselves so that we can truly become the vessel.
- [11:41]
B
That's beautiful.
- [11:42]
C
I think. Well, the, the second part, I think of what your question was as well, was the block. And then also when the work maybe isn't coming to fruition the way that you originally envisioned it to. And, and so I think with that, it's about getting out of one's own way and recognizing it's not necessarily about me, about you, and finding that line between remaining humble and recognizing that we are in conversation with something greater and simultaneously empowering ourselves to be ready so to be completely prepared and poised and, and to channel that discipline, to show up and to practice one's skill, but then to remain open and receptive. And I think of everything through the lens of astrology. I find it a very helpful framework. And the archetype that would be very helpful for this exact question would be Capricorn. Because Capricorn, we know, is traditionally very goal oriented and disciplined and productive. But in shadow, it's actually disconnected from the. The accomplishment. And it can feel empty. And that happens when we're not remaining soft and receptive and malleable. And the key is nurturing and nourishing our vision into life. And so I would say it's a combination of holding that structure while simultaneously recognizing that the shape of it might shift and change. And it's because it's. We're not just working alone here.
- [13:28]
B
Yeah. And in creating Heavenly Bodies Tarot, the part of what I imagined was that there was a moment where. And maybe it was from the very beginning, I don't know. But there might have been a realizing you're not just creating something, you're in a deeper conversation that it is guiding you. And you can't have a fist closed trying to control it. You can't also be so open palm that it doesn't have any form to hold. It's kind of this middle way. Was there a story or a moment where you're like, oh, I am being. This is channeling. This is guiding us bigger than we could even comprehend a hundred percent. If you're feeling overwhelmed, disconnected, or just simply longing for more peace, presence, or intuition in your life, you're not alone. So many people are seeking something deeper, whether it's clarity, self trust, or a deeper sense of spiritual connection. But oftentimes the answers feel like they're out of reach. But what if I told you that the peace and clarity that you're craving are already within you? You don't need to search outside yourself for the answers. You simply need to reconnect with the power of your own presence. That's why I've created the Miracle of youf six guided meditations designed to help you embody your wholeness, rediscover your sense of direction, so that you can bring that energy into your relationships, into your work, into every area of your life. And today I'm gifting it to you for free. And so if you'd like to take advantage of it while it's still available, just click the link in the show Notes or scan the QR code on the screen to download the Miracle of youf and start your journey back home to yourself.
- [14:54]
A
What was so fascinating if you know anything about Tarot, then they'll understand when I say, like, the major arcanas, the miter arcanas, and the court cards. And if you don't know anything about tarot, this still applies every single day. When we were making a different card, we started noticing a theme happening that we would come in it maybe up to four to five days for one card to be created between the two of us and the card and the energy that the card represents. The archetype that the card represents was exactly what was happening in one of our lives. And it was. We were so close to the Energetics, we started realizing that something magical had happened, that when we agreed to do this deck and started calling through the artwork, we were living initiates of every single Energetics of this deck. And that's why it took us three years, because we couldn't create the art or we couldn't write the description until we had lived it ourselves. And so we were watching our life become the inside of this world and play like humans that came into our lives. They were characters in the deck, and so we created the characters from what was happening in our lives. And then there are some challenging cards, just like there are challenging, you know, cards we're dealt in life. And sometimes, you know, I'm. I'm in the depth of a dark night of the soul, and I'm sitting there with the tower, and I'm drawing the artwork of, like, one's life completely dissolving. And I'm like, lily, I don't know if I can keep drawing on this right now. Can I pass that over to you? Because it's so confronting, because it's triggering exactly what is happening in my life. And usually when we're going through a challenging moment, sometimes we can grab distractions, we can self soothe, and we can numb. But what this project was asking for us was to sit and draw it for four days. Like, don't look away. Like, this is really what's happening. And it was so confronting and yet incredibly transformational because we didn't have a choice to look away or to avoid. We got to go so deep into the Energetics, what was weaving in our life for us to actually illuminate the gift that's present too, because there's two sides of every coin. With every artwork, with every archetype, there's a shadow, and then there's also, where is this going? What is it alchemizing into? So we spent three years not being distracted, facing the depth of our own psyche, being Confronted by the artwork and then also having a through line of the resolution on the other side of what this is initiating us into. So we knew we were being used as puppets for the orchestration and the hidden archetypes of life to breathe through us so that we can understand from a place of empathy and create from a place of relatability and. And feeling so incredibly connected. So for me, I felt like spirit was guiding us the entire time.
- [17:44]
C
So Heavenly Bodies Tarot is the sibling of my first project, which was Heavenly Bodies Astrology, which was a deck that I made years previously. And when I made that body of work, the astrology deck, I hand painted everything and I finished the project and I realized I'd made the whole project with one paintbrush and that it was my grandmother's who has passed paintbrush. I inherited her art box, and I unknowingly had used her paintbrush for the whole thing. And that project came to life through a deep healing portal that I was in. And Blue and I, our first interaction was her working with that astrology deck before we even knew each other. And then through the alchemy of our friendship, Blue has been such a karmic ally in alchemizing so much of my female lineage in me. And I really feel my grandmother orchestrating our friendship and weaving with her. And she feels the presence of my grandmother deeply as well. And so Heavenly Bodies as a world has definitely, you know, there's a deep relationship with the other side, and it has its own consciousness, and it's been woven in our friendship and in our individual healing journeys in a deep way. And then with the Tarot deck, obviously, we decided to partner on that together. And when we began, we made these mood boards in our studio with just color schemes that we were feeling drawn to. And we ended up taking the mood boards down and not really referencing them again over the few years of bringing the project to life. And I recently looked at all of the initial inspiration, and it's a spitting image of what the packaging ended up becoming without actually thinking about it again. So it. It revealed itself to us and then kind of slipped away. And then it became.
- [19:45]
A
And then it made me think about the experience. We time lapsed every single studio session, pretty much every single one, to share the journey of how long it took, of how hands on this was project was, and not to just provide a finished product. And on one day, on the time lapse, we. There was a window right above us, and this piercing light came through it. You see it on the video, and it and it pierced through the window and then went and rippled these light waves into the studio. Like, like an ethereal light. Like, like we watched the time lapse back and we had done hundreds of time lapses, never had this happen. And we were like, oh, that's. That feels like the presence of an angel coming into the studio. Had shared it with her mother and she goes, oh, it's your grandmother's birthday today. And on the day of her grandmother's birthday, there was an angelic presence that time was on the video of the time lapse that rippled into the studio and, and like flashes of light that was happening. And we just knew there's so many synchronicities, but we just knew that there was an, an ethereal presence that was guiding us throughout this journey. And looking back on it now, it really felt like this is a conversation with something much greater than ourselves.
- [20:56]
B
That's beautiful. And to me that's the most powerful way to create because that energy that's moving through it translates to the product itself. It's a transmission. I got to go to your guys studio and see some of this process. And it's just been so beautiful to witness your devotion to the calling and the commitment to staying true. And to me it's conscious creation where you're consciously evolving through the, the calling. And I had a similar experience with my coaching certification program where in my human self I was so tired. But I had never felt more spiritual energy moving through me. It was almost like from the back of my heart through my hands into the computer where things were just lining up. And that energy is. It's not your own personal reserve. It's really connected to something bigger than yourself that then is transmuted into what the creation is. So somebody doing a course or somebody having a deck or a book, it awakens within you that energy and that transmission. And so to me, I think it's an important piece to speak of because a lot of times, especially with AI and things speeding up, they're just going to want the end product and miss the whole experience. And so it's like, who do we become as we answer the call? And yes, we're confronted. I know for me, with my certification program, I head up against module 4 was and 5 is blocks. And I just kept hitting up against blocks. And I was like, oh, I'm being initiated into. How do I resolve and work through this so that I can teach in a, in a more embodied way? And the gifts and the shadow of that. And I love what you had shared Blue around the opposite of every coin holds. It's like even in embracing unworthiness, we feel worthy. It's like when we embrace the shadow, we feel light, right? So it's like the opposite. Both are important and both become part of it. And then we can live more freer and open hearted lives. Like that's what we're here for. Taking that formless into form. And so I just honor the commitment and consistency you guys have had in that process. For somebody that's listening and is wanting to hear more of their inner guidance or their intuition, but they feel lost. Is there any wisdom that you'd share with them so that they can channel what feels true rather than just what they may have been conditioned around?
- [23:10]
A
We are living in a time specifically if you're online, that has never been louder. And there is a tremendous, tremendous amount of information that is being pumped out that actually this is the first time in the history of humans is that we can't actually believe our own eyes anymore. So we can see videos that are not even real and we think they're so real and, and literally they don't know what to believe on the Internet. So it is impossible to actually like start to really differentiate what is real and what's not with our own five senses. And something that is just. Has been a rite of passage for me during this process of making the deck is that six months ago I moved from being a hearing person to being legally deaf. And I literally like, I mean I've got the headphones on right now. It's the only way that I can actually hear this conversation through direct communication through the microphones. And this initiation has, has absolutely stripped down everything that I know about what it means to be human and everything that I have perceived in 35 years of being a hearing human on this planet to completely recalibrate my operating system overnight. And what I'm realizing is there is so much noise and words complicate things all the time. And so if we are having a hard time to hear our intuition or, or to be guided into anything that's an original thought. Because to have an original thought these days is extremely rare. We are just regurgitating information that we've heard or seen or read or just a reel that we watch or a TikTok that we saw. And so the most important thing is silence and stillness. The most important thing if we want to know who we really are and actually how we feel about something beyond the people pleasing mechanics that are hard, hardwired into our consciousness, that have Lived generations to the point where we don't actually know who we are anymore. We must start a day with at least one hour of silence, if we can. If we can, five minutes of silence, if we can. If we can even just carve out the space between the moment we wake up and the moment we open our cell phone and just have some stillness before we are regurgitating more information from this device that is literally taking us anywhere by the present moment. And we're wondering why there's so much static noise in between us and what we're truly feeling in our gut or what our body is saying. It's purely because we've allowed far too much noise into our psyche. And so I believe that life, God, Creator, has instilled this deafness so that I can learn how to truly listen to what is really going on in the pulse of life that sits beyond the noise. And this is actually where a lot of universal truth, truth lies. But because we don't even know what silence even sounds like in our own psyche, that we don't actually know what that harm and that pulse really feels like. And I believe that the world is splitting into two different frequencies and has been splitting into two different frequencies. And the best way I can describe those frequencies is synthetic and authentic. And authentic holds a certain resonance. And authentic is sits inside of our body. Authentic is. Is what we are connecting with beyond the words, but into their vibrational essence that you feel of some person that being able to actually look at you in their eyes, into your eyes and into your soul, because I've met myself. And authentic vibrationally holds like a. Different variations of a certain hum and synthetic. And so how can we start to acknowledge knowledge where we've allowed synthetic truths over authentic silence and stillness? And how can we carve out more space for authentic truths to return to our life, into our being on a micro expression of every single moment? Are we allowing synthetic truths or authentic truth? Are we eating synthetic foods or authentic foods? Are we around synthetic friends or authentic friends? Are we giving synthetic truths to others? Or are we just giving people what they think that they want to hear? And how could we utilize the discernment of saying, I'm going to keep choosing authentic over synthetic to the point where now I can actually really hear the authentic truth of what's coming alive inside of my heart, inside of my soul? So the thing that actually drives me in life is my gut, my intuition, and my ability to listen beyond my ears. And that's the high priestess in our tarot deck that's the archetype of being able to listen beyond the ears. And this is where the juice of life comes from, I believe. And when we create from that place, it can literally change physical matter. When you look at a piece of artwork that is created because it has taken a lifetime to carve out one's vessel, to create an authentic process and then to deliver that it is felt. And it has never, ever, ever been more beautiful to create authentic creations. Because of the contrast now with the synthetic noise, it's stood out, stands out so much more. And so silence, stillness and discernment over synthetic and authentic will start to create out the space that it is just inevitable to start being able to hear the pulse of our own intuition, guidance.
- [28:20]
B
Beautifully said. Yeah. And it's so nourishing the authentic. And that contrast will be even more felt. Yeah.
- [28:27]
C
Yes. Everything she said. And I think also being mindful of how many opinions and how many external perspectives we are being bombarded with on a daily basis, whether that's through social media or the news or even AI, people are turning to AI to help them understand their inner worlds. And I think that it's never been more important to connect with our own lens and develop our own perspective. So that might look like creating more than consuming and even, even art. I. I love film, I love good television. But to recognize that the. Those forms of storytelling are completely shaped through the eyes of the director. And so I've found myself recently, my favorite form of entertainment is. Is reading memoirs. Because even with reading an old fashioned book, of course it's through the lens of the writer, but it forces our imagination to work a little bit harder when we are not seeing the visual imagery in front of us. And then in addition to that, memoir writing is. It's less about a packaged philosophy on. On something that we've arrived at and then are presenting. And it tends to be again, more process oriented. So you're observing someone kind of living and their journey of arriving at something. And so I think it's just really important to strengthen the muscle of one's own imagination, to be mindful of how much we're consuming in media and to lean into that, welcoming the process.
- [30:26]
B
Yeah, beautifully said. Yeah. And I'm thinking of somebody that is going through a hard time right now and I'm wondering, maybe they have uncertainty or they're just being challenged by whatever they're being initiated into. How can archetypes support them in making more sense for themselves rather than outsourcing that? And even if we outsource, I Think to a degree, it's okay as long as it's filtered through our own knowing and helps us refine that muscle of what's my truth? Not just, oh, I looked up a dream journal and this is what it means. But how do we dance with and play with archetypes so that we understand what our truth is?
- [31:01]
A
The tower is known as the mirror of the soul, not the soul itself. So the magic, the infinite capabilities, the multidimensional essence of being tapped into everything that ever has been and everything that ever will be is the physical human form, not the deck. Yes, the deck is fully magic and astrology is magic and genkies and magic and, and human design is an opportunity. But they're all just mirrors to go. I'm going to ask the deeper questions for myself and these tools help me hold up a mirror to look deeper into what's going on within me. And that is the most important emphasis on this, is not to put all of the magic into something externally and then override that. Actually the invitation here is just to look deeper into this incredible quantum computer and this multi dimensional essence of your soul to remember and by asking deeper questions, to actually be in a self reflection. And so the tarot is the hero's journey. There's 22 major Arcanas, there's 22, two archetypes in this hero's journey that you're about to go on. It starts with the fool. And the fool is one of the most powerful cards in the deck because the fool is the one that's foolish enough to walk the unbeaten path is to lean off the edge. Even though everyone's warning you that you're about to go on a crazy journey and be like, you know what, I don't know what I'm getting into, but I'm going to follow my heart. And it may seem foolish, but I tell you right now there's a tremendous amount of power in that. It kind of leaps off the edge and goes into the unbeaten path. And that starts the hero's journey, the 22 archetypes. And there are trials and tribulations and challenges and beauty and exile and moments of just like wow and, and it's kind of every key on the keyboard. So the beautiful thing about working with a deck is that it's, it's a guidance system to say, I'm going to give you the energetics of what's most alive right now. These are the areas of contemplation. I'm going to ask you these questions and have you a moment just to pause and self reflect and have a sense of direction, of being like, okay, if I've pulled, if I've asked the question, what is the energetics that really needs my attention right now? Where are the areas where my life force energy is blocked that is inhibiting me from stepping into the next evolution of my consciousness and thus my service to the planet? Okay, I pulled the emperor. All right. What's the emperor asking? Well, the emperor would like you to dot your T's. I'm sorry, crush your T's and dot your eyes and make sure that you're doing everything in a logistical, organizational place. Where are you not taking care of business and then going straight for the highs? How are you being while you're actually taking care of the mundane moments in life? Oh, you know what? I haven't taken care of all of those things, but I've constantly seeked all of the high dopamine hits of all of the highlight moments of my life.
- [33:48]
C
But I've actually.
- [33:49]
A
My stuff, I in my closet still are not unpacked. There's a bunch of boxes of random stuff that I just haven't earned unwound and given it a place to go. I haven't taken care of making sure that there's groceries and nourishment in the fridge and making sure that I'm actually fed today as opposed to showing up on an empty stomach. The emperor is an invitation for me to reflect on those moments in my life where I've kind of just gleaned over to get to the next highlight reel and to realize if I want to live a life of integrity and be a queen of pristine, I must take care of business behind the scenes so that when I show up, I show up in full presence without 100 tabs being open and loads of things started and a lot of things not finished. So that archetype isn't saying, oh, there's some energy, there's an emperor outside of me that's going to tell me how to do it. But it's really just holding up a mirror and saying, where are you falling short in this area? Because the very question you asked was, why am I leaking life force energy? And the emperor then appears, appeared and said, well, my darling, you should take care of some business first. And so it's such an amazing mirror to just mirror back the multi dimensional, multifaceted version of who I am with a sense of direction. That's it. We love the emperor, Big Daddy.
- [35:06]
C
I think we're also very programmed to believe, believe that Life and relationships are supposed to feel good all the time and be harmonious all the time. And that we're supposed to feel empowered and clear at all times. And if we are really living and if we are really going to become the highest versions of ourselves, there's going to be inevitable moments of challenge and initiations in order for us to. To move through and alchemize and step into the higher level of ourselves. And the same is true in relationships. The most aligned relationships can sometimes feel really difficult. And the way we meet those difficulties with honesty and presence is the level of intimacy that's available on the other side. And the archetypal journey recognizes those moments of initiation and names them. And there is comfort that comes in pulling the tower card when we're feeling like our life is falling apart and recognizing, oh, this is a tried and true archetypal moment that happens on the journey of self actualization. And there's a path to alchemy, and there's a. There's a way to use this productively, and it can take me to higher ground and eventually a deeper sense of fulfillment. And so even with the challenging cards in Heavenly Bodies Tarot, you know, no one likes pulling the tower card, but we were incredibly mindful. Or the death card, you know, there's.
- [36:50]
A
So.
- [36:51]
C
There are just like life. There's so many cards in the tarot that feel daunting to pull.
- [36:59]
A
And in moments where, like, we'll pull it and pretend like the other one hasn't seen it, just, like, slowly put it back. Wait, hold on. You can run, but you can't hide from life. Like, take it back out. Like, okay. Yeah.
- [37:12]
C
But we were in the writing of the book and in the prayers and in the descriptions, we. We also outlined the road to alchemy through these cards. So there is no dooming card in the deck. We're honest about the challenge that accompanies some of these cards, but it's important to recognize that these challenges serve a purpose.
- [37:35]
B
Yeah. And to be able to use them rather than be used by them.
- [37:38]
C
Exactly.
- [37:38]
B
Not to feel like a victim to it, but here's how I can evolve through death, through things falling apart. Maybe that's not always bad. And like we were saying earlier, on the other side of the coin is. Is a gift in all of it. And can I harness the gift, or am I running away from life rather than, like, meeting it full on? So I love that the. Even our relationship with the archetypes and the cards are like, am I willing to face what's Needing confronting or am I distracting? Avoiding and the courage to do that, but then to use it for your growth, I think is how we live life. So it's beautiful.
- [38:11]
A
I think the goal here for me as a Scorpio woman with Pluto conjunct my son. Like we we dying bro, but like we're gonna use it.
- [38:19]
B
Yes.
- [38:20]
A
And I think the most important thing as human is to acknowledge that we will go through trials and tribulations and things that bring us to our knees because life will differ. Something we never thought was going to happen in our life and it we didn't see it going that way. Now the question is, can I learn through self awareness and the ability to reflect and take full responsibility of my emotional process, Can I learn how to die well? And I think that that is one of the greatest allies we can have in this life is to to say I may not have chosen this challenging experience and I definitely don't like it while it's here. But I promise you 100 of the time, I will use it. I will use it for a deeper level of self awareness so I cause less harm in this life and I can open my heart to more life entering in and from that place. Be of service from a place of truly integrated wisdom. Not just knowledge that I'm regurgitating, that I heard once upon a time, but because I integrated the wisdom through facing the challenge and using it to be of service to something greater through empathy. And that's what we are all being invited into. If we are trying to constantly just seek happiness and fulfillment. We are going to be very sorely disappointed if we allow ourselves to stand in front of the wheel of fortune, which is another archetype meaning that everything in life is always constantly changing. Nothing will ever stand still. Nothing is ever stagnant. But the goal here is to find peace in life, in life's inherent uncertainty is to find the center of the wheel as well. Life is constantly changing. And so if we can find the trust and the peace, no matter what is presented to us, or the surrender and holding it with an open palm to go, okay, I let thy will move my will and I surrender something greater than myself, then life will always work out in our favor eventually. And a hundred percent of the time it has worked out up until this point. So who am I in the face of challenge? Is what the invitation here is. And if I could say I'm going to use it, then you'd be a very powerful person.
- [40:18]
B
Yeah. And even when you were talking, I was thinking the death card Supports awakening. So, like, the very thing that we're afraid to actually face opens us to the thing we deeply desire. And so it just is hidden in gift wrapping that looks unwelcoming. And yet the present and the gift within it is worth everything and something that we would move towards. And as we build trust in ourselves to handle difficult feelings and sensations, which is ultimately what it's about, that's the hardest thing that is happening. Then we can face and open the gift well and deepen in who we become and embody more resilience and open heartedness in the face of challenge. Which you both demonstrate beautifully. I also know that tarot is not necessarily about a prediction of the future. And I know you guys talk about this, talk to us about how you hold it, rather than it being a fortune teller.
- [41:07]
C
Yeah. And we have different quotes that have been meaningful to us throughout the process tucked into the packaging. And one of our quotes is the task is not to predict the future, but to be present enough to meet it. And so it's this idea quoted by
- [41:24]
A
Lily Ashwell, by the way. She actually wrote that in one of a subsects.
- [41:30]
C
It's good. We're gonna go crabbing. Yeah,
- [41:34]
A
yeah.
- [41:34]
C
So as an astrologer, even people oftentimes turn to astrology and they want to know, when am I going to meet the love of my life? When am I going to succeed in my business? And those timelines are there, but there are infinite timelines available to us. And I believe that fate and free will both exist. And the way that we meet this person, present, moment, informs the path that we align with. And so it's fun to play with the idea that the future is here, it's knocking on our door, and it's working through us and through the intelligence of life. What we want, wants us. And so maybe this tower moment is in some service to the thing that we want most of all. But we're not going to get there if we're not present with the tower moment. So ultimately, the tarot can be a tool for trusting the present moment and to no matter how uncomfortable or beautiful, but to be fully available and entrust that it's taking us to this future that is already here. But it's not passive.
- [42:54]
B
Yeah. And I love holding it that way, where we feel more present to what's actually here, rather than being like, oh, I'm just a victim to the cards unfolding as they are destined to unfold.
- [43:04]
C
Yeah. Astrology has helped me really connect with this way of thinking because a birth Chart for people that know what a birth chart is. It's a map of where all the planets were at the time we were born. But it's not set in stone. It's a map of potential. And so our highest potential is outlined in the chart. And so is the shadow expression of our life and being. And it's with our free will and the way that we empower ourselves or not to engage with life informs which versions of ourself and our life we align with.
- [43:39]
B
Yeah, yeah. And I'm. And I'm still on this wheel of fortune that you mentioned. And staying true to the eye of the storm of the eye of the wheel. Because that stillness point transcends all of the weathers of life. And so when we're in touch with a deeper stillness within that is our true nature. These different archetypes and challenges can come up. But it's easier to navigate when it's almost like we have a ballast in a ship so that the winds of life can move us. But we're more anchored and rooted in something true. Deeper than the circumstance or the story of who we think we are, what's possible. And, and one of the biggest things in the human predicament is this relationship with uncertainty and the need for certainty. Because oftentimes the mind will project fear into the future as a way to know. Right. Like the left brain will actually fill gaps between the meaning so that it creates a false sense of security and certainty. And so having a deeper rooted connection within yourself, using creation to support you in creating from and as a deeper stillness and truth to me, like the secret is silence, you know, and using these as maps to support us in refining our gifts, to meet the moment presently as it's being presented is the art of life. How we, how we use our creations to deepen and how we use our life as an altar.
- [45:00]
A
And what a revolution in a human for somebody that's actually present in today's time. That somebody actually has an expanded attention span that isn't just 15 seconds long onto the next reel, onto the next reel, onto the next short form content that is just making my awareness and my attention span so short. And then I'm just regurgitating information that I've heard and I'm inundated with noise. And what would it look like as a revolution of a human that's actually found the stillness in life right now and has actually found the attention span long enough to read a book, to create something by hand, to plant a garden, to tell a story, to write Poetry. This is a revolution in a human form that can be present enough to receive the moment beyond the projected control of what it should be, to create a false sense of safety that can only ever be established from within. And we are gripping to external things. This relationship, this house, this bank account, these. These external ways, my beauty on an external level, gripping to these things that are always in flux and are always changing. And that's what the wheel of fortune's showing us, that life is inherently always changing. You may have this money in your bank account, but maybe tomorrow something will come up. You may have this relationship, but maybe a rupture will present itself. You may have this home, but then the fires might rip through Los Angeles and you don't have a home anymore. This is the wheel of fortune. And when we are in the illusion that we can control what's going on outside of ourselves, we are constantly trying to micromanage our environment to allow us to feel safe for a moment. But the most important thing is how safe am I to myself in all 60,000 thoughts I'm thinking every single day? And how safe am I where I'm not identifying with my anger, but I'm allowing my anchor to move, my anger to move through me as a passing emotion with full permission and a safe expression, so that then also the joy on the other side can be lived inside of my being without me clinging to it, needing to be joyful all the time.
- [47:07]
B
Yeah, it feels like a stage of development. It feels like it's a bit younger and it's innocent when we try to look for outside, because that's how we've been conditioned and told. And yet safety is really found in the present moment only. And using these challenges to come back to a deeper dimension of our being is the medicine. And I really hear that you guys have not only deepened in your own process through the creation of this, but also inviting other people to use this as a reflection, a relationship to deepen in themselves, which is the greatest thing any teacher or guide could ever offer. Is back to ourselves. And it's so beautiful. And I honor the work that you guys are doing. And you keep mentioning, like, AI and I'm curious because with life being so fast for people, and I'm just realizing from the Industrial Revolution, this, like, product line of efficiency, it's almost like AI feels like it's going to help us transcend into a different dimension as a whole. And I know there's going to be a lot of death and transition in that, with jobs and ways of people of living really. But I'm curious what happened because this took you years to do and you had the choice to use AI and chose not to. Was there something that you feel like you didn't bypass because you slowed down to honor the creative process that you could have missed had you not.
- [48:22]
C
For me, I, I don't want to say I'm a minimalist, but I. I'm not, definitely not a hoarder. There's not a single pen in my house I don't know about. Like, I, I'm very intentional.
- [48:36]
A
I can't say that the same thing.
- [48:38]
C
I'm very aware of just clutter and noise. And I really cultivate and prioritize cultivating stillness. And I, I know even, of course, with AI but even before AI, the world doesn't need any more stuff. The world doesn't need another. Another tarot deck. But if. If two creators are having an authentic conversation with the consciousness of a deck that wants to come through and wants to go on a journey to bring that creation into form, the world always needs that. And so could we have created a beautiful deck with AI? Yeah, but it, to me, it would have felt empty and. And the world wouldn't have needed it
- [49:34]
B
and you wouldn't have become who you are.
- [49:35]
C
Exactly.
- [49:35]
B
As a result. And that's the living demonstration and the exampleship.
- [49:39]
C
Yeah. And.
- [49:40]
B
And one of the big fears for people, I think, when they start to say yes to a calling and to create is this fear of being judged. Like, I'm gonna. I hear it often. And like I'm scared of putting myself out there, not realizing that we're putting our work out there, not ourself, who we are separate than what we do. But it's this real fear of like, I'm scared to put my work out there. Even it feels vulnerable. And I think we can also then get influenced by what we think the creation wants to be based on other people's eyes, as if we're looking from the outside in versus from what's my true authentic expression out. So for somebody that's in that. That dynamic feeling, that push pull of like, here's. I'm going to stay true to my vision and what feels right in the calling versus what I think I want it to be or the metrics, what would you offer to people?
- [50:27]
A
Well, I'm not going to coddle people in this process. And I'm not going to say that it's easy because it's not. And I think that there's a reason why people are afraid of Putting themselves out there because people could be like, actually, no lack of a better word, regardless, regardless, you are going to be judged for the rest of your life. You will. And that's just the way that it is, unfortunately. But for any creation, anytime you show your voice, anytime I put something out there, people are going to judge it. And for the most part, the ones that are judging harshly are the ones that don't feel fulfilled in their lives. When you create something or you share your beauty, or you share through authentic authenticity, or you're the first one on the dance floor, or you're the one that makes the art that makes people go, go, what you're going to highlight inside of other people where they have not allowed themselves to cross through the threshold over their own authentic expression. And you're going to be fiercely triggering. And it's just the nature of it. If you were having everybody like you, you're not being authentic. That's just, just what I've learned. And so there is a reason why people don't express themselves. Because that realization that I'm already judging myself enough, now I'm going to be in the face of judging others. And every time I'm judged by someone else in something that I'm judging within myself, it permeates in and it feels even deeper. And so the reframe here is that every time someone judges me, I put something out there and there's a hater in the comment. And I sit with myself and I'm like, okay, I'm feeling triggered right now by this comment from Joe. 154 with no profile picture and 0 followers has come into my comment section. I'm standing in my bedroom and their energy has made their way into my bedroom. And now I'm mad. I had a great morning. I did my mantras and now all of a sudden I'm pissed. I'm like, okay, well what is this actually, what is this saying about me? Because I believe in what I created. I know that process that it took for me to get to that point. So what? Why is this person getting in? Because there is a part of my psyche, consciously or unconsciously, that believes what they're saying. Okay, well, thank you, Joe. You've just showed me where there is a hole in my ship. There is a part of myself that believes what they're saying to the point where is me unconsciously playing a track that is undermining my sense of self worth from the inside out. So Joe has now just become my greatest teacher. Thank you you so much. If we see every single person that is a hater, or every single person that judges, or every single person that just doesn't like it as an opportunity for me to build a more solid queendom inside of my own psyche, then why would I not put myself out there? Because now I'm alchemizing them into my greatest power and my. And this power does not come from the outside in. This power cannot be taken away. This power is a power that is. I know who I am, I know why I'm here, and I know how I serve. And nobody can take that away from me. Yet everybody from the outside that doesn't like it is just inviting me to build a more solid sense of self. Now all of a sudden, why would I not create? Oh my goodness. Every time someone doesn't like what I'm doing and it really gets in, that is pure fuel for a deeper sense of self and deeper roots into the earth. And so from that place, that reframe goes, okay, I'm going to be judged. People are not going to like what I created. People are going to have a pushback. And yet this is an opportunity for me to know in the core of my being where this came from and keep moving forward. And so that has really helped me as somebody that's created content, that someone that's put myself out there for 10 plus years, has shared intimate parts of my journey and has been deeply judged on a daily basis. If you have the larger the platform, the more people you're impacting, the more people that are not going to like you. However can I be, can I be solid within myself so that I can withstand any storm that happens externally? And if the answer, you know, is cultivated into a big resounding yes, and that's the gift that keeps on giving. And ultimately that's the times that we're living in right now, I believe, is that we're being asked to live from the inside out. We have been conditioned from the moment that we're born to live from the outside in, to think our worth comes from external achievements, and to have my sense of self worth so intricately woven with my productivity that I don't know what's what anymore. This is the opportunity for us to shift the narrative, shine it from the inside out, and to know that nothing can ever and no one can ever take that away from you. And that is true power.
- [55:07]
B
I, I agree. And that, that they didn't make you feel that way, they activated a trigger that was already inside. You said the ship, the hole in Your ship. It's like, okay, great, I'm going to use this for my growth. I know one practice that I've had is when I feel like a ting or a charge or trigger, I will sit with it. So I will just let myself feel it somatically in my body. Oftentimes it's the gut where we hold the deepest stuff. I think also identity is in the gut, like 2 inches below the belly button. I find I'm very curious about doing more work around that as like, a part of a spiritual awakening path. But one of the things that I've realized is that if I.
- [55:45]
C
If.
- [55:46]
B
If they say something that stings, can I find what they're saying? Is there some part of me that actually feels like it's true? And maybe it's actually feedback? Maybe there is something practical that I can learn. But if it just feels like they're being a jerk and. And then they highlight something inside of me. Yes, they become a teacher. And then I can sit with that. Who am I pretending to be? Or how am I wanting to be perceived as? And can I own all the archetypes within me, within consciousness and humanity? Because I have all of them. And the more I do that shadow work, the less I feel upset with them and the more I feel empowered to use this for my own freedom and growth. So I love that perspective. I think that's.
- [56:25]
A
Yeah. I think about somebody sitting on the sofa yelling at the NFL players about their past that they made. Yeah. And they sit in there with a bag of chips, and they're like, what are you doing, you idiot? They're so mad at this NFL athlete for passing the ball wrong or dropping it or whatever. They're sitting on the sofa with a bag of chips. You know, it's so easy to sit behind a cell phone and to judge and criticize those that we see on the screen from the comfort of our hidden, private lives, where we're actually not doing anything in the direction of what it is that lights our soul on fire.
- [57:00]
B
And then that's triggering also, probably for them, if they're not playing the game, if they're not in their life engaged. And I don't think triggers are bad, similar to you. I use them for my growth. Because otherwise, then you're a victim to life and there's nothing to do. How do you use it rather than be used by it?
- [57:17]
C
I think in this time of AI to bring it back there. Invention of AI is like the invention of electricity. It's going to change how we fundamentally move through life. Nothing that we're doing right now in this space, we could be doing without electricity, the lights, the electronics. And so I have no idea what we're going to be able to do five years from now, 10 years from now. But I do know that AI is going to be better than us in a lot of ways. It's going to be a better writer, a better illustrator, a better lawyer, and even doctor maybe. And so I think the most important thing we can do at this time and the most valuable asset we have is our humanity. And so allowing ourselves to be a stand for that and to be seen and witnessed in this process that we keep going back to, that's what differentiates us from, from the robots and, and so to allow ourselves to be seen and witnessed in our mess and in our path to alchemy, like, there's no shame in that. And if someone's judging or pointing fingers, then unfortunately they might be replaced by a robot. We have to be. We have to be a stand for what is human.
- [58:43]
A
May I ask a question as I'm gonna sit into the hay seat for a second? Lily, I want to hear about your journey with being seen because you're somebody like from an authentic place of what it really like what you've had to move through around actually sharing your creations. Because this is new for you. Like what is the process for you to actually allow yourself to be winner?
- [59:03]
C
Well, I kind of, I shared that at the beginning of this conversation. In my art making, I have this down. You know, they're. My approach to art is very slow and gentle and compassionate and flexible. And when it comes to my own expression, I'm. I am harsher with myself and more self conscious and I put more pressure on myself with how I'm going to be received. But I really believe what I just said in terms of being a stand for humanity. So, so whether I'm feeling anxious, I know it's the most important thing to not hide and to be vocal about that. And I've been in the practice of that now for some time. And my friendship with Blue has been a huge, A huge support in that process for me. And. Yeah, but it's not, it's. It's funny. It's. I. I always think about pain as. There's, there's clean pain and there's. There's dirty pain. And clean pain is like, it might not feel good, but you know, it's good. You know, it's healthy, like growing pains. Yeah. And. And maybe dirty pain might be like moving against Gravity and. And kind of being in a state of contraction and resistance. And so the challenge, you know, I just. Back to astrology. I have a lot of Virgo, a lot of Pisces. I don't have any Leo. I don't have that. And Blue does. I don't have that innate wiring that wants to express and be witnessed and to share. But I am wired for integrity, and I'm wired for clarity. And I know that for whatever reason, my soul came here at this time because we're at this juncture point with what's going to happen with AI and. And I need to be a stand for what's real.
- [61:12]
B
And I think people are going to be really craving more imperfection and human flaws and that vulnerability and to be met in that rather than have it polished, because I think everything will be polished and we'll be craving something more real.
- [61:25]
A
I love a good typo in an Instagram. If I see someone's got a typo in the their Instagram caption, I'm like, well done. You wrote this yourself. This came from your raw, authentic human process, as opposed to the perfection of it. This certain cadence, now everything just. You can hear it. There is a. The best way I can describe it is that there's a song. There's always a song in every room. I'm always making jingles, but there's like, there's always a song. And I can hear a certain song when someone writes something from their heart. When I read Lily's substack, there is a song that is almost like a Ludovico piano piece that just plays in the background while I'm reading the cadence of her writing, because I know she wrote it. And then when I hear a cadence of an AI, like, write me a caption, make it spiritually profound, and talk about the importance of truly listening with your. Beyond your ears. And then it goes. And you copy paste, take all of the M dashes out so that it looks like you wrote it and put it in the caption on Instagram. I can hear the cadence. And it's like. And I'm like, I don't like this song. And. And I literally can hear it in the Instagram captions. And so there is a cadence of soul and there is a cadence of artificial. And this is what Lily is emphasizing. And the reason why I asked that question is because you speak to people that have something really important to share, but it is challenging to move through those blocks. And that's the main thing that I really celebrate in you. Is that you have determination to. Even if it's difficult, even if you're wiring, it's not Leo, Moon, conjunct Jupiter. You're literally like, oh, this is really. I. I can create something that's authentic and honest, and my challenge is actually to stand behind it and be witnessed in the world and to utilize your determination to actually do so. To show up on a podcast like, this is so relatable for people. And this is what you were asking at the beginning of. People have got something real, but they're afraid of standing behind it because of the judgment, or they. They want to create something real, but they have the voices that come up in their head. I think that you're such an incredible role model for people that doesn't come naturally, isn't super easy, would rather not be seen, but believes in something, stands in integrity, and creates something from the human process and the courage it takes for you to stand behind it. So that's why I just wanted to emphasize that part of the journey for you.
- [63:50]
B
And I've seen the way that you. Your friendship and also partnership in this has evolved both of you in these really beautiful ways where, like, you've really, like, distilled and slowed down and, like, deepened, and you've really been supported in more of your Leo and sharing. And this is probably the next phase of that evolution. And so it's beautiful to also watch a sisterhood that is because you hear about relationships romantically helping each other evolve, but so do teams, so do friendships. And, like, this is a beautiful example of that.
- [64:20]
A
Well, I'm realizing more and more that Lily's my creative partner. Actually, it's funny, because I announced my engagement recently online. I had so many messages. People were like, whoa. This entire time, I thought you were dating Lily. And I had to just disappoint so many people that I actually am not in a relationship with Lily Ashwell. However, we. We do. We are creative partners, and we had a creative baby. And, like, we literally have given. We're crowning right now. The baby's, like, being created, and by the time this podcast comes out, it will be out in the world. And there is something very, very potent in the name of sisterhood and collaboration and honesty and rupture repair for deepening, and that we have cultivated a framework through our relationship that, like you said, Lily has very positively impacted me in so many ways, whether it's my compassion and my softness and my. My presence and slowing down enough to create something that is sustainable as a legacy project, not just a Short term high of some, some Sagittarius rising that I'm like, ah, lots of fire, lots of excitement, but nothing that holds deep, deep roots. And what I'm offering her is, is the opportunity to stand behind her creations and be witnesses. The teacher that she is in the Gene Keys, by the way, and the importance of continuing to highlight her voice so that she finds that, that strength within herself to really be able to stand in who she authentically is. With nothing to remember, but just everything to be and the complementary nature that we've offered each other. I don't know if I would have found that in my romantic partnership and to not put all my eggs in one basket that my partner is supposed to be all of these things for me. But to actually find that through sisterhood and creativity and support and honesty and safety that is available. I think I've only ever found that with, with my relationship with Lily and other sisters in the past. And so it's just a tremendous gift. Such a beautiful pocket of life that I'm so grateful to have received.
- [66:29]
B
Yeah, it's, it's. The whole theme of this episode is really conscious living, conscious creation, conscious relationships. How do we be in right relationship within ourselves and how do we express that in the world? And so just in closing for people who, they hear the call, they want to honor it, but they're scared of that vulnerability. They're scared of the time commitment or the uncertainty. Any words of wisdom that you would offer them.
- [66:55]
A
Stay present. The sphere is coming from a projection of the future timeline. I'm scared because I may run out of time. I'm scared that I may not be very good. I'm scared that I don't have what it takes. This is literally me living in a future timeline. And you were the one that introduced me to the work of Byron. Katie, if you're like, whose business are you in? That's God's business. Hey, come back into your business. Well, what's my business? Everything that is in this present moment. Okay, what's in this present moment? I have 30 minutes. Okay, well, what can be created in 30 minutes? Get out the watercolor. Go to something for outside. What am I? Oh, you're going into a future timeline again. Come back into the now. Just create something. It doesn't matter what it looks like, or I'm gonna make a dish from scratch today and I'm going to learn how to create something. If I have 30 minutes and I have what's right in front of me, be present and let the moment reveal itself, but us to try work on retraining our brain to come back to here, because for the rest of your life, this is right here. And I can already hear Lily's voice just saying, just do it, even let the voices be there, but stay present and see what the moment was to reveal it.
- [68:09]
C
So. And I think there can be a fear of making a mistake and not being good enough, like you said. And I don't know why I have been blessed to have such a healthy relationship with creativity, but it's really, like, the only place in my life where I, I, I live in a way that I wish I can embody in all areas of my life. But I know creatively that there really are no mistakes and that I can be working on a painting and it can appear like I've messed it up, and it becomes the best part of it. And that's where the trust in being in conversation with something beyond oneself comes in. Because if you trust that the mistakes are intentional, if the limitation is intentional, and the way that you work with them is a part of you developing your style or your voice or your vision, then you're in a conversation, you're in a dialogue. And I went to art school, and I, I went to one of the best art schools in the world, and I felt so intimidated by the caliber of artists that I was surrounded by, and I was not as technically skilled as the, as my classmates, and it forced me to develop a style that is, so that I could sit side by side by them. And my, my style, my, my vibes were what kept me in the room. And it's, it's the style that I'm still working with and have evolved into what it is that I'm sharing today. So had I been as skilled as those kids, then I, I wouldn't be making the work that I'm making today. So it's, it's. I think that being in process and being in conversation is. And the only way to do that is to be present.
- [70:06]
B
Yeah, we can handle whatever's in the moment, not projected fears in the future.
- [70:10]
C
Yeah.
- [70:11]
B
Well, I just love you guys so much. I love that you are in my lives as sisters, and I know my audience is going to want to stay connected. Where do they get their hands on this deck?
- [70:21]
A
Don't walk. Run to www.weareheavenlybodies.com and that is where you can get your hands on this tarot deck and also the astrology deck, and, you know, all sorts of things in good timing, but that's where the the whole world of heavenly bodies is. And it is a world like we just get started on, on what we're creating. And Lily and I are both on Instagram. Lily's @lilyashwell a s h W E L L and I'm at Blue of Earth B L U A O F Earth E A R T H and we're pretty active on there, but mainly that's where you can get the deck. And to know that when it's you're holding it in your hands, you are literally holding our heart and our soul and our tears and our depth and our death, purification, rebirth, integration, journey of life through many years. And every single design, every single brushstroke, every single line, every single piece of font is all done by hand. And so we are just tremendously proud to stand behind our co creation and to know that it's in your hands and that it can be your ally and your and your support during times of confusion or not knowing you know what the answer is. Just having a mirror that represents a deeper part of the content contemplation that is available inside of your heart with a sense of direction, moving forward to make decisions from a heart, not from the mind. It is truly an honor.
- [71:53]
B
What a gift. I cannot wait to dive into it. And also, we'll put all the links in the show notes below. Thank you both for who you are and how you live in the world. I love you both deeply.
- [72:02]
A
Thank you for having us.
- [72:07]
B
Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference. And if this podcast has supported you, one of the most impactful ways to help us reach more people is to simply press the follow button. It really does help us grow and we are so grateful. I just want to say thank you for being a living example of what it means to walk through the world with an open heart and mind.
- [72:36]
A
Sam.