← Healing + Human Potential
Healing + Human Potential
The Truth About God, Death, Love + Our Purpose on Earth with Neale Donald Walsch | EP 93
00:54:08
What if the most painful moment of your life was actually the beginning of your greatest awakening? In this episode, I sit down with Neale Donald Walsch, author of Conversations with God, to explore how losing everything — his home, his health, and...
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- [00:00]
Neil Donald Walsh
I was evicted and I had nowhere to go because I had no money in savings. So now I'm living on the sidewalk. One year living on the street, sleeping on the ground, in the rain, in the snow, in the cold. And I woke up One morning at 4:23 and I wrote an angry angel to God. Dear God, what does it take to make life work? What have I done that's so horrible in my life to deserve endless continuing struggle? It just never stops. I what do you want from me? Before I knew it, I was having an on paper dialogue with God. Your life is not about you. Your life is about everyone whose life you touch and the way in which you touch it. But when you live your life from that place, you suddenly realize that in a universal sense your life is about you. There's only one of us in the room. We are all one.
- [00:50]
Alyssa Nobriga
For somebody who is afraid of dying or losing somebody that they love, what would you say to them?
- [00:55]
Neil Donald Walsh
You're afraid of nothing because death does not exist.
- [01:00]
Alyssa Nobriga
Welcome back to the Healing and Human Potential podcast where today we are joined by Neil Donald Walsh. He is the bestselling author of Conversations with God and his work has touched millions around the world because he has a unique perspective on spirituality, purpose and what it means to connect with something larger than ourselves.
- [01:18]
Unknown
And before we dive in, I know.
- [01:19]
Alyssa Nobriga
The word God can mean different things for different people. And so if it doesn't sit well with you, I want to invite you to replace the word God with love, source, truth, whatever does feel in alignment because I'm aware it can be triggering for some, comforting for others. And this is an exploration for you to find out what your truth is. And I am honored to be in this exploration with you. Well, I'm so happy to have you on Neil. And I know that your work has just touched millions of people around the world. And I also know that there was a point where you hit rock bottom, where you had a divorce, you lost your job, you even became homeless and are people that are feeling despair. And I'm curious if you're able to share a bit of what that experience was like for you and how it actually brought you closer and deeper connection with God.
- [02:10]
Neil Donald Walsh
What happened was not only did I lose my relationship with my beloved wife and then lost my job, but I also wound up in a terrible car accident. An elderly gentleman, an 85 year old man, decided that I was going slower than I really was. I wasn't speeding, I never speed, I I was driving 25 miles an hour, but he thought I'm going to make a left turn. And he made a left turn right in front of my car. Unfortunately, he didn't make the turn in front of my car. He made the turn into my car, into the driver's side of my car, and the car was a total wreck. I mean, as they say in the car business, it was. The car was totaled and so was I. They pulled me out of there, of course. The ambulance came and they took me to the hospital. I suffered a broken neck and not just a hairline fracture. They told me that I had suffered. I remember the wording on the report. Specifically, they said I had suffered a 3 quarter inch avulsion fracture of the seventh cervical vertebrae posteriorly. In other words, a break in your neck large enough to put a pencil through.
- [03:20]
Alyssa Nobriga
Wow.
- [03:21]
Neil Donald Walsh
When I woke up from the anesthesia, the doctor said to me, I need to tell you that 9 out of 10 people who suffer that big of a break in their neck die instantly because of spinal cord complications. You did not die. It's a miracle. Furthermore, the. The rare person who does not die surely is paralyzed from the neck down. You didn't suffer either one of those consequences. He looked at me in the face and he said, so what do you intend to do with the rest of your life? Because you've had a miracle. Well, miracle or not, nobody would hire me. I couldn't find another job. I was going to interview after interview after interview. But you see, what happened was the doctors fitted me with what they call in the business a Philadelphia collar. It's a plastic collar that you wear on your neck. Hold your head. The doctor said, you are not to take this collar off for any reason until I tell you to, because it's the only thing holding your head up right now. Because we cannot put any more strain until that neck refuses. They wanted to see it fuse again. He didn't want to put an artificial filler in. So I had to wear this collar for around a year and a half. Around 14 months. Nobody would hire me because I would go in for an interview even though I had all the qualifications. Finally, the seventh man said to me, Mr. Walsh, I've got to be honest with you. We can't hire you when you're wearing that therapeutic device around your neck. Obviously, you're not fully healthy. And one wrong move on the job and we're paying your medical bills for the next five years. Come back to us when you're all in one piece again and we'll hire you in a minute. So I couldn't get work. Finally I ran out of my savings. I had a few thousand dollars in the bank. I wasn't sitting there with a hundred grand in the bank, but I had about 15 or 20,000. But after a few months I ran out of my savings and I couldn't pay my rent anymore into a little apartment that I had rented. After my marriage ended, I was evicted and I had nowhere to go because I had no money in savings. I had spent all of my savings on food, groceries and rent and putting gas in my car like any other average person. So now I'm living on the sidewalk. But I thought, I can get away with this for a month or two, for a little rough time. I was out there for a year, one year, living on the street, sleeping on the ground, in the rain, in the snow, in the cold. You don't know quite what life is like until you're sleeping in the cold, 32 degrees outside and the snow is falling on your body and you know you don't have covers or blanket. I mean, you're lying on the ground. You own two pair of jeans, two shirts, a pair of shoes, and that's it. So you go from person to person with your hand out. If you have anything you could spare, I would appreciate it, anything at all. And some people would throw in a couple of quarters or a half dollar and they said, well, this is all I have in chains. I'd say, please, please, even those two quarters. If everybody that I asked today gave me two quarters by 4 o' clock, I could actually get a hamburger, please. And so they would give you the coins out of their pocket once in a while. A generous person would even put some folding money in your hand. You couldn't believe it. You want to know what it's like to have no dignity whatsoever when you're living on the street where you go to the bathroom? I mean, excuse me, but where do you use the bathroom? Yeah, you have to sneak into restaurants. And after a few months, because you haven't had a haircut in 12 weeks and you haven't had a shower in 12 weeks, you smell and look like a street person. And the manager comes over to you as soon as he sees you walk in the door and he says, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but you can't come in here. You're just going to panhandle the, the customers. I can't have you begging for money from our customers. And I have to say, please, please. Honestly, I won't be, I won't, I won't ask anybody For a nickel. I just need to use the toilet, please. When you have to beg to use the bathroom, you realize you've gotten down to the bottom of the barrel. I have to tell you a little story. Finally one manager of a McDonald's restaurant said to me, I'll make you a deal. You come in here and you promise me on your word of honor that you're not going to ask anybody, not even anybody that you meet in the men's room. Not going to ask anybody for a nickel. No panhandling the customers and you can use the bathroom whenever you need to. Oh my God. Thank you. So at least I could get inside and have a tiny bit of privacy and use the bathroom. That went on for a year when I finally got off the street because I, I found a little part time job, weekend fill in. Nobody would give me a full time job. But I did get a job as a weekend substitute, a weekend fill in employee. And I was earning just enough money to pay for a little one room over, over the, this little apartment on top of somebody's garage. They just turned the, you know, the second floor into a little studio. And I managed to afford that. And I got in there. So I was out of the weather and it had a shower stall and everything. So I, I was, to me it was luxury. And that's when I sat down. I woke up one morning. I was there about two months or so and I woke up one morning at 4:23 in the morning and I, I wrote an angry letter to God. It was a yellow legal pad on the coffee table in front of me. And they had a couch in there. And if they threw in a couch, no bed, it was not, not even a bed, but it was a couch. You could sleep on the couch. And I'm sitting on the couch writing on this yellow legal pad. Dear God, what does it take to make life work? And what have I done? What have I done that's so horrible in my life to deserve endless continuing struggle? It just never stops. I'm screaming on paper, you know, I'm just writing, writing in huge letters. What do you want from me? I don't know who I thought I was writing to, but I began hearing a voice at first. I mean in the first instant I really thought there was somebody in the room. Of course there was nobody in the room. Then I realized, oh my God, on top of everything else, I'm losing my mind. Except the voice was so calm and so sweet. And the voice in my mind said to me, neil, do you really Want answers to all these questions or are you just venting? And my mind goes, you think, yeah, I'm inventing. But if you've got answers, I'd sure as hell like to know what they are. And the voice came back and it said, oh, sweetheart, you are sure as hell about a lot of things, but wouldn't you rather be sure as heaven? And my mind is now thinking, okay, what's that supposed to mean? And the voice said, okay, sweetheart, take this down, and answered every question I had. And that brought up other questions, of course, which brought up other answers, which brought up other questions, which brought up other answers. And before I knew it, I was having an on paper dialogue with God. I never ever imagined that anyone would ever be privy to it, that I would ever share it with anyone. I would never. It was, I considered it a very sacred personal experience. But I was told in the dialogue about a third of the way through what became a book, I was told, you will make of this a book one day and it will be accessed by many people. And I thought, no, no, no, no, no. No publisher is going to put a book out because some guy in Oregon says he's talking to God. It's not going to happen. So on a dare, I can remember the moment I'm daring God. I said, okay, show me on a dare. I xeroxed three copies of my handwritten notes. These are all I was. I didn't have a computer in those days. I'm just writing on a yellow legal pad. But I did send it to three publishers. I went to a bookstore and I just looked at some books in the self help section. And you know, most books have the address of the publisher right in the book, in the, on the front cover, one of the, one of the first pages. So I'm writing down the addresses and I, I mail off my, my notes to these publishers. And by golly, if I didn't get a telephone call, because of course I put my phone number in there and I, I wind up getting a call two and a half weeks later from one of those publishers. It wasn't a major publishing house like Random House or put them, but it was, you know, a small publishing house on the East Coast. And they said, we love this material. We're going to put it out. It's a wonderful piece of fiction about a guy who has an argument with God. Said. I said, you can't publish it as a work of fiction. That's, that's not what happened. And the guy says on the phone, says to me? Mr. Walsh, are you trying to tell me you think you really had this happen to you? You didn't just make this up as a work of fiction? I said, of course not. This is my. These are the handwritten notes from my actual experience. He said, well, okay, we can put it out as a non fiction book, but it's not going to find 500 readers because people aren't going to buy a book because some guy in Oregon claims to be talking to God. Come on. But we'll put it out. And he was right. The book didn't find 500 readers, it found 5 million.
- [13:57]
Alyssa Nobriga
Wow.
- [13:58]
Neil Donald Walsh
Not bragging, just saying that's what happens when you listen to God.
- [14:05]
Alyssa Nobriga
Was there ever a moment where you doubted what you were hearing or what? Of course, you entrusting the wisdom that you were listening to?
- [14:13]
Neil Donald Walsh
Well, let's talk about the moments when I doubted. First of all, I was told things like, Neil, there's no such thing as right and wrong. I was told, there's no such thing as the ten Commandments. Who would I command? God said, myself. I am everyone who. No one stands. No one. And nothing in the universe stands outside of me. And who would I punish if the commandments that you say that I gave you were not. Were not obeyed? Does the right hand slap the left hand? I mean, would I slap myself when I punish myself? Because I am you, you are me. We're all one. There's only one thing, Neil. In the universe, all there is is one thing. And we're all part of the one thing there is. I got it. I began to stop doubting because here's what the voice that I identified as God said to me. Neil, don't believe a word I'm saying. I'm not asking you. I don't require you to believe anything I'm saying. Try it out. Listen to what I'm saying. See how it feels in your own life. Use it in your own world. Because I was being given advice about everything. Inter interactive relationships, human sexuality, parenting, right livelihood, even advice on dieting. I mean, I was giving it being given advice on everything God said. Just try the advice. If you. If you don't think that anything you're hearing makes any sense, throw it out. I was invited by God to throw everything away if it had no value to me. So that's the answer to the second part of your question. When did I lose my thinking about maybe you know, even ask God? I said, how do I know I'm not making it all up? It's just my imagination And God's answer kind of surprised me. She said, neil, where did Mozart's music come from? Where did Michelangelo's art come from? Where does any great discovery or any great insight come from, if not from your imagination? Einstein had to imagine things that no one ever dreamt of before. He had every right to think to himself, am I just imagining this, or might there be something of value here?
- [16:30]
Alyssa Nobriga
I love the invitation not to trust it, but to test it and just to see.
- [16:36]
Neil Donald Walsh
Yes.
- [16:36]
Alyssa Nobriga
And I love the invitation also to throw it out if it doesn't resonate. That feels so true and loving. And I imagine that starting to have this greater intelligence on board shifts not only how you see life itself, but also just grief and death in general. And I know that that is a big pain point for people. And just before I even go there, it's like going through your hardest time of your life, I would imagine, opened you to the greatest treasure of your life, a greater realization. So I just want to remind people, like if they are in despair or going through challenges and initiation, that sometimes those are the greatest breakthroughs that offer us miracles and grace and just to be really compassionate with ourselves as we go through whatever human experience we're going through. But for somebody who is afraid of dying or losing somebody that they love, what would you say to them?
- [17:28]
Neil Donald Walsh
You're afraid of nothing because death does not exist. You, you never die. You, as a person, if you're losing a loved one, you may feel deeply sad at the loss of your loved one, but don't feel sad for them. In fact, just the opposite, be happy for them, because death does not exist. I ask God, in conversations with God, well, what is this thing about death? What is that? What is death? God said, in simple human terms, it's merely a change of address. You simply go from the physical realm to back to the spiritual realm whence you came. And you make that circle from the spiritual realm to the physical realm, back to the spiritual realm, back to the physical realm, repeatedly throughout eternity. It's called reincarnation.
- [18:18]
Alyssa Nobriga
You know, what's interesting is when I was around seven, I also heard a voice, and I was raised Catholic, so I didn't know what reincarnation was, but it said that the body is like a car, like a rent a car. And you just go from rent a car to rent a car. It was using my childhood analogy. And then later in life started to hear about reincarnation, which made it fascinating. But even in the inquiry of who dies, for example, I were to die, how would I know I would be dead. Right. So there's just a deeper inquiry on. I love what you're inviting. Who dies? You know, who do you think you are? And if you were dead, how would you know? And so it's pulling back some of the conditioning that we all have around these very general topics. But I'm wondering if you could share a story about losing someone and how this changed your perspective of losing them, somebody that you love.
- [19:09]
Neil Donald Walsh
Well, you reminded me of the death of my own mother. She was a wonderful woman. I mean, everybody thinks, I hope, well of their own mother. But my mother was a saint, Was a walking saint. She never would hurt the feelings of anyone. She would, of course, never physically hurt any living thing. She wouldn't even tap the dog on the bottom. She would never. She was just a walking saint. When my mother was passing away, she was very seriously ill. And the doctors told us, my brothers and my dad and I, the doctors said, you know, she doesn't have long to live, maybe another day or two. So they let us see her for. They gave us each five minutes with her because they didn't want us to over tax her. So I was given five minutes with my mom. She's on, literally, I hate to be dramatic, but she's lying on her deathbed in the hospital. And I walked in, my mom said, sweetheart, I need you to promise me two things. Anything. Anything, Mom. What do you need? What do you want? She said, number one, take care of your father. He's a good man, and he's going to have a little difficult road to travel without me. Promise you'll take care of your father. I said, absolutely. And then she said something that I'll never forget to this day. I remember her exact words. Dance on my grave. I said, what? She said, sweetheart, I know where I'm going. I'm going home to God. Dance on my grave. Celebrate for me. And I promised her that I would. And you know, Alyssa, I actually went to my mother's grave a month and a half or so later. I flew to Wisconsin, where she was buried. I was living in California at the time, but I flew across the country to keep that promise. I went to her grave site, looked back and forth left and right to make sure no one saw me, because they would think I'm being sacrilegious. I mean, what are you doing? But when I saw that no one was near and no one was watching, I actually stood on the mound of dirt that was her grave and did a little soft shoe danced on her grave in celebration. That she was once again home with God. Because if my mother wasn't in heaven, then nobody is.
- [21:52]
Alyssa Nobriga
It's beautiful. She seemed to be pretty clear. And I know that when we're in touch with something greater than ourselves again, it shifts everything. And I'm curious how you've seen over the years when people start waking up to their spiritual nature or a deeper connection with the divine, or you could say, wake up to a higher version of themselves. How does that change their life? What have you seen over the years?
- [22:18]
Neil Donald Walsh
Well, I think first of all, what I see is that fear leaves them. Not just fear of death, but fear of life. My friend Elizabeth Kubler Ross said to me once. She was an author that wrote many books, but she said to me once, neil, when you no longer fear death, you no longer fear life. And I did see that in other people. They stopped being afraid of simply living their life and making decisions and making choices. They just moved into their life and fearlessly. But the other big change that I saw in people myself, obviously, most importantly because I was watching my own behaviors, is that I saw people being more accepting and more loving with each other. Because here's the big change that people come to when they get in touch with who they really are. And what is true about God when people come to understand, Alyssa, is that God's relationship with us is not transactional. God doesn't say, I love you if God hasn't entered into a trade relationship with, with us, like nations have trade relationships with other nations. You know, you give me what I want, and I'll give you what you want. But if you don't give me what I want, I won't give you what you want. It's not a trade deal. God simply loves us without condition. Pure love is the two word definition of God. People sometimes ask me, how would you define God? You wrote, wrote a book called Conversations to God. How would you define God? I say, I can give you a two word definition. They say two words, okay, what's your two word definition of God? Pure love. Now, sometimes somebody will say to me on the, on the, on the. I've been listening to you for 20 minutes for you to tell me that you think that God is love. Everybody, all the world's religions, even with their doctrinal differences, agree that God is love. Who would not agree to that? Well, I have to say to them, wait a minute, that's not what I said. I didn't say that God is love. I said that God is pure love. Now my friend will say, okay, what's the difference? The difference, my friend, is that pure love needs, expects, requires, and certainly demands nothing in return. We can't even love the person on the pillow next to us that way. Much less can we imagine a God who loves us that way. So the good news is that God expects and requires nothing in return for her love. She loves us no matter what. And he will tell us that every day of our life. If we listen carefully.
- [25:26]
Alyssa Nobriga
It's a love big enough that includes all of it. The resistance, the grief, the challenge, the joy.
- [25:35]
Neil Donald Walsh
Unless we understand how God loves us, then we do. We do finally start loving the person on the pillow next to us in the same way. I was finally able to turn to my wife for the first time in. I've had several marriages, I'm sorry to say. I'm not. I'm not bragging about it because I. I had failed marriages. But in my latest marriage, I was able to turn to the lady on the pillow next to me and say, sweetheart, I don't need a require or even hope for anything back from you. I don't love you because of what you can give me. If I loved you because of what I could get from you, that I'm just loving myself, using you as a tool. Yeah, I love you because what I see across the room, whether I get any of it or not, I see the beauty in you in every way. Not just your physical beauty, but your mental, spiritual, philosophical, psychological, emotional beauty. You're the most emotionally generous person I've ever met. When I see you capturing a little spider that you found on the kitchen counter and grabbing it, putting a glass on top of it and sliding a piece of cardboard beneath it and lovingly carrying it back outside. When I see you with that kind of compassion, when the average person will just slap the spider and kill it. No, you wouldn't hurt a single living thing, not even a kitchen counter spider. If it takes you 20 minutes, you capture that little creature and carry it outside and then say to it. Because I heard her say, okay, sweetheart, you're back out where you belong. Have a good life. And I thought to. When she came back into the kitchen, I said, that's the reason I love you, because of who you are.
- [27:35]
Alyssa Nobriga
And it sounds like the generosity of heart that your mom embodied.
- [27:39]
Neil Donald Walsh
Yes.
- [27:41]
Unknown
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- [29:00]
Alyssa Nobriga
Work in the world.
- [29:01]
Unknown
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- [30:03]
Alyssa Nobriga
I know that there is this desire for a better world that a lot of people want unity and yet they're struggling, they're divided. And I'm curious what you see gets in the way of us being able to have a more harmonious, connected world.
- [30:21]
Neil Donald Walsh
Because we have not learned how to disagree agreeably. We have been taught by our culture, not just in recent years, because of the present political climate, we've been taught frankly throughout most of human history that when we have a major disagreement, the only way to solve it is through violence. Either verbal violence or God forbid, even physical violence. And we've had armed conflict on this planet for all but 5% of recorded history.
- [30:53]
Alyssa Nobriga
Wow.
- [30:54]
Neil Donald Walsh
That tells us that we have not simply learned how to move through our disagreements agreeably. We feel that we have to use physical or emotional verbal violence in order to negotiate our disagreements. We have done that because we've been taught by the highest form of moral authority on this planet. We call them our religions. And by the way, I'm not talking about one or two or three religions. I don't know whether you're aware of it, but surveys have shown that there are currently on the planet, I mean right now, today, being practiced 4,223 religions.
- [31:36]
Alyssa Nobriga
Wow.
- [31:38]
Neil Donald Walsh
4,000 different faith traditions now being practiced on the planet Earth, each one of which has its idea about who and what God is, what God wants, what God does if God doesn't get what God wants, and what happens to you in the process. And most of those religions, to be fair, not all of them, but the largest majority of them, teach us of a God who is four things, loving, judgmental, condemning and punishing. Now what will God punish us for? Well, like you, I was raised a Catholic. And I can recall being told in Catholic school in third grade, when I was nine years old, I mean, I write, the priest came in once a week to teach catechism because I went to a Catholic school. Nuns were teaching us in front of the room. They were nice, wonderful ladies. I had a wonderful third grade teacher, there's no question about it. But the priest came in and he was talking about mortal sin and venial sin. And so I raised a little nine year old hand. I said, father, can you give me an example of mortal sins? And he said, of course, my son. And I'm thinking he's going to say, you know, murder or stealing someone's life savings or, you know, he said, if you miss mass on Sunday, it's a mortal sin. I said, what? He said, oh yes, it's a mortal sin. Ten commandments tell us the Lord's Day must be kept holy. If you miss mass on Sunday and you haven't gone to confession and confessed that sin and it hasn't been absolved by a priest, then you go to hell when, when you die. I said, and you know, my nine year old minus trying to put this together, I said, Father, what if I'm on my way to confession? It's Saturday afternoon, and I'm. I'm on my way to confession and I step off the curb and I get hit by a car and I die. Surely God would. Would forgive me because he knew that I was on my way to confess. The priest said, I'm sorry, my. I'm sorry, my son. Your sins must be absolved by a priest or you will go to hell. And missing mass on Sunday is a mortal sin. Now, my mind at the age of nine is trying to put this together. I'm being commanded, by the way, another commandment is to love the Lord thy God. We're commanded to love God. Not invited, but come told to do so. So we're being told to love an entity that punches us if we make the slightest merit, the slightest error, the slightest mistake. You know, by the way, I'm not exaggerating this because any, Any Catholic will. I. I checked about two years ago. I wanted to make sure I wasn't saying something that was not true. I checked with my local archdiocese. They still teach that missing mass is a mortal sin.
- [34:46]
Alyssa Nobriga
I feel like whatever religious or spiritual connection people have, I mean, I did study comparative mysticism in my undergrad when I was going to school. I found the through line of different religions. Catholicism. There was a spiritual energy through all of them. And I connected with that without all of the dogma and the fear and the control, which for me was really important. And I can see there being good in certain. In lots of different religions. And I can also see there being harm that is done. And one of the practices that I did was really powerful for me, was to look at what was the God I was raised with and what was the God that felt true now and to really question each belief. I was told about what God is to discover for myself. Circling back to what you were saying around this. If it's true for you and it supports you, keep it. If not, let it go. And that partly having that critical thinking and really tuning into what our truth is and being supported feels like a God that is more in alignment with love, that is beyond good and bad. I think sometimes there's, you know, control of. You need to do it this way so that I can manage control and we can go into a deeper conversation about that. But beyond, when there's a real true trust in the human spirit, in our true nature, there's a. There's a lot less need for some of the judgment and divide. But I really hear you saying that the struggle externally is really a reflection of the struggle internally. And some of that is through how we were raised and controlled.
- [36:20]
Neil Donald Walsh
Well, there's a reason most people that is the largest number of people, number one, believe in God. Recent surveys have shown. Again, I'm not making this stuff up. Sociologists have taken surveys in every country of the world in the past 10 years asking a single question, do you believe in a higher power? And Alyssa, eight out of 10 people said, yes, they believe there's in a higher power. There's more going on here than meets the eye. Yeah, but they can't agree on what the higher power wants, what it does, if it doesn't get what it wants, and all the rest of that stuff. But the one thing that most religions do agree on is that there are things that God wants. And if you don't give God what she wants, he's going to get you and you're going to go to hell. You're not going to be allowed into heaven. So I bring that up again to make a point, because religions tell us. Wait till you hear this one. Religions tell us that the best thing we can do, what we should be doing in life, is to imitate the divine, to live divinely, to try to bring into your life as best you can the behaviors of the divine. Well, we are doing that. We are, in fact, creating a society that we think is judgmental, condemning and punishing. And if. If people or nations don't do what we want, we judge them for it, then we condemn them for it, then we punish them for it. It's going on right now in Ukraine. It's going on right now in Gaza. It's going on right now all over the world. It's going on in individual homes. So we are behaving with each other the way we understand that God behaves with us. When we change the world's idea about how God behaves with us, we can at last change how we behave with each other. That's going to create a radical.
- [38:21]
Alyssa Nobriga
Yeah.
- [38:23]
Neil Donald Walsh
Alteration in human behavior.
- [38:27]
Alyssa Nobriga
Yeah, I see that. There's so much change happening politically, technologically, societally. And I'm wondering, like, what makes you hopeful for our future? And I don't know if part of the answer is just as we shift what we know to be true around our nature and what God is, and as that relationship is shifted. Yes. Then we'll be able to embrace those parts of ourselves with unconditional love. All parts. And as we do that inside of ourselves that is reflected in our families, in our countries, and in the world. But if there's anything else you want to add to that, I think it would be helpful to hear.
- [39:06]
Neil Donald Walsh
Well, what makes us hopeful, what makes me hopeful, is simply our technology. Look what's happening right now, Alyssa. This experience that you and I are having right now would have been impossible when I was your age. Again, I'm not exaggerating. That's the absolute truth. What we're doing right now, talking to hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people and sharing a message that many will say, oh, this is exactly what I've been waiting to hear. This is exactly what I thought was true. Because of our technologies today, we can share and spread a brand new idea about God. An idea that if we share this idea from person to person, one on one years ago, we would have been called a blasphemer. We would have been labeled an apostate, we would have been labeled a heretic. You can't say these things that God is not going to punish you for. Not for not doing certain things. But you know what? If we're all going to hell, then we're going to have to remember what George Bernard Shaw said about hell. All the interesting people are there anyway.
- [40:22]
Alyssa Nobriga
Yeah. And I love that it's back to testing it. You know, it's just like, find out what your truth is. This is the exploration of finding out what your truth is. And, you know, your story is so fascinating. To go from a real, like, continuous challenges of one thing after another to waking up to communication with God and into a real, clear, divine voice. And I'm imagining that there are people here wanting to develop that, wanting to be able to tune into the divine directly. What would you say to them?
- [40:55]
Neil Donald Walsh
I would say that it's very possible for you to do so. I wrote a book about that, actually, called God Talk. And, and I, I, by the way, I didn't write a book about that because I felt like I wanted to. For the first time in my life, I actually had a call from a publisher. This has never happened before.
- [41:13]
Alyssa Nobriga
Of the other 41 books.
- [41:15]
Neil Donald Walsh
No, no, no. Those other 41 books, you typically, when an author writes book, they send it. Maybe if they're lucky, they have a literary agent. And the literary agent, you know, shops it around to see if anybody, any publisher, wants to put it out. And if they can find a publisher who wants to put it out, then the publisher puts it out. And the literary agent takes 15% for having found a publisher. I mean, that's how the process works in the real world. Right. Except My telephone, right? And it was a publishing house. For the first time in my life, after I'd written already 39 books, asking me if I would write a book for them. I said, wow, what did you have in mind? They said, we'd like you to write a book that tells people how they can have their own conversation with God. I said, okay. So I wrote that book and I looked at my own process because I never, you know, I never really analyzed it in a way that would. A book would come out of it. But I looked at my own process and I thought, oh, you know, there's a six step process that I've kind of like come up with in my own life. Step number one, possibility. I have to know that it's possible to even have a conversation with God. That some people don't even think that a God exists, much less that you can converse with her. So I have to embrace the possibility that there is a God and that one can talk to God. Step number two, worthiness. I have to know that, okay, if there is a God and God talks to people. But I have to be among those who are worthy to hear from God. I mean, because when I was a young person, I thought, okay, God talked to Moses, fair enough. God talked to Muhammad, bless his holy name, fair enough. God talked to Jesus. Obviously God talked to even people who are, are alive today. I was taught that God speaks to the Pope, that the Pope actually can receive information from the Lord, but not God doesn't talk to the first baseman for the New York Yankees. I mean, come on, Much less is he going to talk to some weirdo living in Ashland, Oregon? No, it doesn't happen. So worthiness is the second step. I have to realize that I'm worthy enough that God would actually speak directly to me and that God talks to all of us all the time. We're simply calling it something else. Women's intuition or any epiphany or a psychic hit or an insight, a sudden brilliant idea, you know, so we call it something else because we don't want it. We don't dare say that. God said to me this morning, Step number three, willingness. We have to be willing to overcome a cultural bias. The cultural bias says, come on, Neil, God doesn't talk to you. He doesn't talk to me. Come on. Maybe it may be the pope, fair enough. Or the chief ulama or the head rabbi, but he's not going to talk to you. So we have to have a willingness to be brave enough to say, no, you don't Understand? God does talk to me and to all of us all the time. Step number four, wakefulness. Since we have been willing to receive information, we have to stay awake. Stay awake to the ways in which God's message might be coming to us. For all I know, it could be a podcast by a person named Alyssa. And people are watching the podcast right now, going, of course, it's right in front of my face. I'm getting the message right now. Which leads us to step number five. Acceptance. To not reject what we're hearing. Not to say it's just my imagination or I'm just making it all up, or I'm trying to create something out of nothing. No, to not only be awake to how the messages are being sent to you, but to accept them when you receive them. Like, listen to what you're hearing right now, my friends, and don't toss it out because it might violate everything you thought you knew on this subject prior to today. Step number six. Finally, discernment. How to tell the difference between messages that are coming to us from a higher source and messages that are coming to us, you know, from. Especially these days with the Internet sending us 10,000 messages a day from various sources. And in today's modern technology, I talked about that being an advantage, but it's also sending us many, many, many, many messages every minute of every day. So we have to have discernment. For instance, I'm going to my car in the parking lot after leaving the grocery store, and I reach into my pocket to get my keys, but some folding money happens to come out with the keys and falls on the ground. It's a sign. And he's supposed to throw all my money on the ground. No, no, no, no. A little discernment, Neil. A little discernment. You could tell the difference between messages from the divine. And not everything is a sign. So the six steps are possibility, worthiness, willingness, wakefulness, acceptance, and discernment. And I talk about all this in great detail in the book titled God Talk.
- [46:37]
Alyssa Nobriga
All of that is a muscle that you can be building, especially discernment. This is one of the most commonly asked questions. How do I know when it's fear or clarity? How do you answer that?
- [46:47]
Neil Donald Walsh
It's clarity when it makes you feel uplifted, expanded, excited, and even the beginning of joyfulness. It's from another source when you feel diminished, smaller, fearful, apprehensive, and severely doubting. So God's messages cause us to feel freedom. Messages from other sources often cause us to feel the opposite of freedom. Oh. Oh. What if I'm wrong about this? Oh, my God. So that's how I tell the difference, because I was told in conversations with God. Neil, feelings are the language of the soul. If you want to know whether a message is coming to you from the higher power, give it the tummy test. Your stomach will tell you you're either going to feel or you're going to feel. Yes. Yes.
- [47:46]
Alyssa Nobriga
Yeah.
- [47:47]
Neil Donald Walsh
And so when I feel the great big yes, then I go for it.
- [47:52]
Alyssa Nobriga
Yeah. And I know for me, sometimes, even if I hear something that's a hard truth to hear, there's still a solid in my gut. It feels solid, it feels true, even if it's not necessarily what I wanted to hear. It's just like a ring of. Almost like my nervous system is stable instead of dysregulated. And I know one of the things you say is, what does the world want to hear from God through me? So I'm just curious, as we're starting to bring this to a close, if there's any message that you feel you want to share with people?
- [48:26]
Neil Donald Walsh
Well, there are two messages. I was asked the same question, by the way, by Matt Lauer on the Today show a few years ago. Matt is interviewing me and he says, same thing you just said, okay, Neil, what's God's message to the world then? But then he said, you know, could you put it into one paragraph? We have only 30 seconds.
- [48:45]
Alyssa Nobriga
Can we tweet this?
- [48:47]
Neil Donald Walsh
We have only. He said, we have only 30 seconds left. I thought to myself, you stinker, you'd wait until you have 30 seconds left out of a 12 minute interview to ask me the most important question. So I'm thinking, what can I say to his millions, millions of people watching the Today show? It's God's message to the world. God gave me the message. I said, matt, I don't need 30 seconds. I don't need one paragraph. I can give you to you in five words. So, Matt, Laura looks at the camera a little bit askance, and he says, all right, ladies and gentlemen, from the man who claims to be talking to God, God's message to the world in five words. Neil, you've got me all wrong. Matt didn't know where to go with that. I said, matt, either. Either the message is accurate and our conversation has just begun, or the message is inaccurate and the conversation is over. But there's a second message that I would end this particular interview with because it's the message that really affected me most in my life. God said to me, neil, your Life is not about you. Your life is about everyone whose life you touch and the way in which you touch it. But when you live your life from that place, you suddenly realize that in a universal sense, your life is about you for an elegant reason. There's only one of us in the room. We are all one. When I realize as I'm looking at you, that you're simply me in a different form, and when I treat you and speak to you and interact with you the way I would want people to treat and interact with me. You know, somebody said this about 2,000 years ago. He put it very simply. He said simply, do unto others as you would have it done unto you. What he didn't add, or he may have said it and it didn't get recorded, was do unto others as you would have it done unto you. Because it is being done unto you. Because what goes around comes around and what flows through you sticks to you. So as I look at you on my computer screen right now, I realize I'm simply looking at another version of me.
- [51:29]
Alyssa Nobriga
So powerful, so beautiful. Thank you for dropping us all into our heart and for answering the call and living your life into service to yourself, to your bigger self, to all of us.
- [51:43]
Neil Donald Walsh
Yes, all service is self service. That's what conversations with God said to me. I don't want people to think that I imagine myself to be this extraordinarily wonderful human being who's here to serve the world. Guys, I'm very clear that all service is self service because there's only one of us in the room.
- [52:06]
Alyssa Nobriga
That's right. And your story is so beautiful that you have gone the range within your humanity. And I love that you have had so many challenges and that you still woke up to yourself and that you live in alignment with that. And it just shares that everybody has the opportunity no matter where you are, what you've gone through. It's available right here and right now. So if you're looking for a deeper guide into listening to God, the divine within you, check out God Talk. And where else do we stay connected to you?
- [52:39]
Neil Donald Walsh
CWG connect.com beautiful.
- [52:44]
Alyssa Nobriga
We will put all the information here in the show notes below. Thank you Neil, for your time, for your heart and just doing the work to remind all of us what's possible when we listen.
- [52:55]
Neil Donald Walsh
Thank you for the opportunity to share this time with you. I appreciate it very much and thank you for being one of those people on the planet who understands that the sender of the message becomes the message.
- [53:10]
Unknown
Thank you so much for doing this work that changes the world, starting with yourself. It truly does make a difference. And if you're finding value in this podcast, a cost free way to support us is by following us. It does help us grow and we are so grateful. Leave a review on Apple or Spotify, submit a screenshot of that and upload it to Alysonobriga.com podcast as a thank you gift, we will be sending you one of the most powerful tools that you can use on any area of your life to help you tap into your full potential so that you don't let fear hold you back from really stepping into your dreams. I have so much more magic I want to share with you and I cannot wait to do that soon. But for now I just want to say thank you so much for being an example of what it's like to live with an open heart and mind in the world.
- [53:53]
Neil Donald Walsh
Sam.