Podcast
Letters to Our Unborn Children
Hosted by Letters to Our Unborn Children / We Own This Town · EN
An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice
18episodes
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Wrap-Up
Jul 1900:26:54Tap to summarizeThis episode concludes the “Letters” mini-podcast. Based on their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice,” hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver reflect on their podcast journey. Tarri Driver is a lifelong creative artist with a wide range of independent, academic, professional and therapeutic arts experience. Her decade of work as an art therapist in Nashville (in public schools and a children’s hospital) — along with her experience teaching college-level art therapy courses and later years as an independent art instructor—inform both her worldview and her art. Since relocating from Nashville to a small town in East Tennessee, she has retired from her career as an art therapist and re-embraced artmaking from her home studio, where she writes, illustrates, publishes original work, designs commissions and devises new creative projects. Forthcoming works include writing and illustrating the third children’s book in her Lunar Mooner Lula series, and a new book of short stories for adults, (working title) Pursuing Terra Firma. Sarah Saturday is an innovative musician and multimedia performance artist based in Nashville, TN. Over the past 15 years, Sarah has made a name for herself with her boundary-pushing artistic expression, combining music, film, dance, spoken word, and visual art into immersive, interdisciplinary experiences. Her work spans numerous albums, film scores, and performance pieces, and she has collaborated extensively with artists across mediums. A 2024 recipient of the Tennessee Arts Commission Individual Artist Fellowship, Sarah’s work is celebrated for its emotional depth, conceptual richness, and striking visual language. Since 2007, she has performed over 200 shows throughout the U.S. and Canada, with her music featured in films, TV shows, and commercials. Her film scoring credits include the Discovery Channel’s Dark Side of the Sun and the independent film Superpowerless. After relocating from Los Angeles to Nashville in 2012, Sarah expanded her artistic practice by incorporating film and choreography into her live performances. Her latest project, Voyage, premiered to sold-out audiences in Nashville (2023) and Los Angeles (2024). Recorded on May 8, 2025 Additional Links: Official Letters Project Website: letterstoourunbornchildren.com Tarri’s Artist Website: tarridriver.com Sarah’s Artist Website: sarahsaturday.com
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The Voyager
Jun 2000:33:40Tap to summarizeThis episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” Hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver discuss the “Martyr” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the Letter. They also interview two Buddhist nuns – Sisters Brightness and Splendid Moon – from the Magnolia Grove Monastery. The Sisters share about their experiences entering and devoting themselves to the (joyful!) monastic life, and, as part of that decision, their choosing not to have children. Sisters Brightness and Splendid Moon are Buddhist nuns who have dedicated their lives to the teachings of the Buddha and Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. Practicing boundless love, meditation, and joy, the Sisters guide others and build community through special programs and retreats, easing suffering and promoting goodness. Born and raised in Hue, Central Vietnam—a land rich in Buddhist tradition—Sister Tr?ng C?m Tú (Sister Splendid Moon) grew up surrounded by the teachings of the Buddha, which instilled a deep spiritual foundation. Yet, as a child, she grappled with profound questions: Who am I? What is true happiness? How can I live a meaningful life? Her path became clear in her teenage years when She encountered the Plum Village tradition of Buddhism and the teachings of her teacher- Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. At age 18, while preparing to enter university, she decided to embrace the monastic life. She was ordained in Plum Village Thailand in 2013. Over the past 12 years, she has practiced and lived in various monasteries, including Dieu Tram (Viet Nam), Plum Village (France), and now Magnolia Grove Monastery (MS, USA). This journey has filled her with profound joy and purpose. She dedicates her days to practicing boundless love—bringing joy to others in the morning and helping ease their suffering in the afternoon. She also shares her practice with children and teens, guiding them through special programs in retreats. Beyond her spiritual and community work, she finds joy in creative expression, particularly drawing and calligraphy, which further enriches her practice and life. Sister Man Nghiem, which translates into Sister Brightness, is Chinese-Vietnamese-American and grew up in North Carolina, California, and France. In 1998, she became a novice aspirant in Plum Village, France and in 1999 ordained as a novice nun. She began her Siksamana training in 2004 and also became an Order of Interbeing Member also in 2004. She received her Bhikshuni ordination in 2006. In 2008, she received her dharma lamp and became a dharma teacher. She moved back to California in 2010, this time to Deer Park Monastery, a sister monastery of Plum Village, near San Diego and then relocated to MS, to another sister monastery called Magnolia Grove Monastery, in 2021. She enjoys leading worldwide meditation retreats with her community, including retreats with programs for youth and young adults. A fun fact is that she is the 101th monastic student of Zen Master TNH and was often teased as the 101th Dalmatian. Another fun fact is that she enjoys taking on the challenge of finding foolproof recipes for plant based desserts to prove they can too be just as delish! Recorded on Jan 2, 2025 Additional Links: You are Mother Earth | Brother Phap Dung Magnolia Grove Monastery: https://magnoliagrovemonastery.org/ Plum Village: https://plumvillage.org/ Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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The Martyr
Jun 2000:48:12Tap to summarizeThis episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” Hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver discuss the “Martyr” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the Letter. They also interview two Buddhist nuns – Sisters Brightness and Splendid Moon – from the Magnolia Grove Monastery. The Sisters share about their experiences entering and devoting themselves to the (joyful!) monastic life, and, as part of that decision, their choosing not to have children. Sisters Brightness and Splendid Moon are Buddhist nuns who have dedicated their lives to the teachings of the Buddha and Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. Practicing boundless love, meditation, and joy, the Sisters guide others and build community through special programs and retreats, easing suffering and promoting goodness. Born and raised in Hue, Central Vietnam—a land rich in Buddhist tradition—Sister Tr?ng C?m Tú (Sister Splendid Moon) grew up surrounded by the teachings of the Buddha, which instilled a deep spiritual foundation. Yet, as a child, she grappled with profound questions: Who am I? What is true happiness? How can I live a meaningful life? Her path became clear in her teenage years when She encountered the Plum Village tradition of Buddhism and the teachings of her teacher- Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. At age 18, while preparing to enter university, she decided to embrace the monastic life. She was ordained in Plum Village Thailand in 2013. Over the past 12 years, she has practiced and lived in various monasteries, including Dieu Tram (Viet Nam), Plum Village (France), and now Magnolia Grove Monastery (MS, USA). This journey has filled her with profound joy and purpose. She dedicates her days to practicing boundless love—bringing joy to others in the morning and helping ease their suffering in the afternoon. She also shares her practice with children and teens, guiding them through special programs in retreats. Beyond her spiritual and community work, she finds joy in creative expression, particularly drawing and calligraphy, which further enriches her practice and life. Sister Man Nghiem, which translates into Sister Brightness, is Chinese-Vietnamese-American and grew up in North Carolina, California, and France. In 1998, she became a novice aspirant in Plum Village, France and in 1999 ordained as a novice nun. She began her Siksamana training in 2004 and also became an Order of Interbeing Member also in 2004. She received her Bhikshuni ordination in 2006. In 2008, she received her dharma lamp and became a dharma teacher. She moved back to California in 2010, this time to Deer Park Monastery, a sister monastery of Plum Village, near San Diego and then relocated to MS, to another sister monastery called Magnolia Grove Monastery, in 2021. She enjoys leading worldwide meditation retreats with her community, including retreats with programs for youth and young adults. A fun fact is that she is the 101th monastic student of Zen Master TNH and was often teased as the 101th Dalmatian. Another fun fact is that she enjoys taking on the challenge of finding foolproof recipes for plant based desserts to prove they can too be just as delish! Recorded on Jan 2, 2025 Additional Links: Magnolia Grove Monastery: https://magnoliagrovemonastery.org/ Plum Village: https://plumvillage.org/ Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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Menfolk
May 1701:05:20Tap to summarizeOn this special episode, hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver interview three men who have decided not to have children to find out more about the male / non-female perspective on this complicated topic. They are joined by Chris Driver, Daniel Jones, and Jeremy Lister. Chris Driver, a professional writer/editor since 2010, has written about science at Oak Ridge National Laboratory since 2023. Before his writing career finally began, he did several restaurant tours of duty, drove a truck to deliver and repossess portable storage barns, sold computers and sporting goods, dabbled in landscaping, parked cars at fancy parties in Nashville, toured most of the USA in a punk rock band, and worked construction and cleaned fishing boats in Alaska. Virtually no one has read the book he wrote about all of that. He enjoys a variety of rock and jazz music, loves to read widely and is a bit of a film geek but isn’t much of a podcast guy. Happily married since 2006 to his best friend, the artist Tarri Driver, he has reluctantly agreed to invest further in that happiness by talking on her public podcast about his personal feelings. Daniel Jones is a Nashville-based creative producer, dramaturg, writer, and director passionate about facilitating shared live arts experiences that ignite social change. In 2022, the Nashville Scene named him “Best Advocate for Artists.” He serves as the Associate Director of Programming & Partnerships at OZ Arts Nashville where he has supported hundreds of visiting artists from around the world, including companies from Brazil, Japan, Chile, Germany, South Africa, France, and more. He also works closely with Nashville artists as they develop new works in OZ’s unique 10,000 square-foot creative warehouse, including the annual Brave New Works Lab. Additionally, as the Co-Founder & Producing Artistic Director of the nonprofit organization Kindling Arts, Daniel has worked with hundreds of Nashville-based artists to launch more than 120 unique artistic experiences since the organization was founded in 2018. Kindling’s programming has been hailed by the Nashville Scene as “freewheeling, uncensored and full of heart, pushing the boundaries of what we imagine performance art to be.” Daniel’s creative producing credits include The Naughty Tree, an interdisciplinary, queer retelling of the Garden of Eden creation story; two installments of Heroic Couplets: Poetry into Film Collaborations with Defy Film Festival; and HAUNTED, a multimedia, immersive experience inspired by the deadliest train crash in American history. He is joyfully living child-free, which allows him lots of time to create art and invest in his local community. He plans to remain childless until he is in the grave. Jeremy Lister is a songwriter with Big Yellow Dog, a background vocalist for Post Malone, and a founding member of Street Corner Symphony from NBC’s The Sing-Off. Beyond music, he co-owns Blister Hot Sauce with his brothers and is an avid runner, having completed two 100-mile ultramarathons. Most importantly, he is happily married to the most beautiful and brilliant person on the planet: Sarah Saturday. Recorded on Mar 20, 2025 Additional Links: Chris Driver: hardbarned.com/ Daniel Jones: kindlingarts.com/ Jeremy Lister: @jeremyblister blisterhotsauce.com jeremylister.com Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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The Steward
May 2, 202501:02:44Tap to summarizeThis episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” Hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver discuss the “Steward” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the letter. They also interview Nicole Louie, author of “Others Like Me: The Lives of Women Without Children.” Part memoir, part exploration of childlessness through candid conversations, “Others Like Me” is the story of fourteen women around the world, from different walks of life, who don’t have children. It’s also Nicole Louie’s story and the story of why she had to find others like her. As the social expectation to procreate weighs the most on women, Louie focuses solely on them, their experiences, and how they flourish outside of motherhood. In doing so, she upends the stereotypes that diminish women who are not mothers and offers reassurance and companionship on a path less known. Recorded on: March 28th, 2025 Additional Links: Nicole Louie on Instagram: @bynicolelouie More from Nicole Louie: linktr.ee/nicolelouie Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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Special Episode: Moms
Apr 17, 202501:22:34Tap to summarizeOn this special episode, hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver interview four women who are moms, diving into the complex topic of what it’s like to be a mom. They are joined by Cara Dorris, Megan Johnson, Reneé Eades, and Melinda Dabbs. Cara Dorris is an integrative dream therapist and spiritual counselor who helps clients connect with the sacred within and with all. Enriched by over a decade of exploration in energy and pastoral healing, dream integration, end-of-life care, grief support, 12-step recovery, and Nonviolent Communication, the core of her spiritual direction is identifying the divine needs most alive in her clients. These needs are often hidden in shadowed behaviors and offered as metaphors in dreams. She believes through learning the language of our needs and dreams, both universal and personal, people can deepen their relationship to self—the core from which all relationships grow. Cara’s first memory is a dream, one full of treasure and perspective she continues to unearth. In addition to impromptu intuitive stretching and channeling spiritual guidance through poetry, one of her favorite therapeutic exercises is dancing—at a rock show, in the kitchen with her children, and in her dreams. Megan Johnson is a trainer, coach and instructional designer, currently working for the State of TN. She lives in Nashville with her husband, 9-year old son, and dog. She’s originally from Chicago and has loved living in music city for 15+ years. She enjoys writing and singing/playing pop/rock/IDM music, boating, being outdoors, and personal/spiritual development. Reneé Eades is originally from Corinth, a small town in Mississippi, and has lived her entire life in the South. She left my hometown when she was 18 to attend college in Florence, Alabama, at the University of North Alabama, where she studied English and Professional Writing. She’s enjoyed literature and reading since she was a young child, so this was a natural fit for her. After finishing at UNA, she started her master’s program in English at MTSU, where she gained a teaching assistantship and worked in their Writing Center, so she moved to Murfreesboro and met some of the most amazing women who became close friends and confidants, including Tarri Driver! During grad school, she had the opportunity not only to tutor students, but also to teach – something she had sworn she would never do, as her mother was a teacher who worked harder than anyone she knew. Nonetheless, here she is, working hard at a career that she loves. She has taught English for a community college north of Nashville full-time for 20 years, and this is where she met her husband, who teaches History at the same school. They have been married for 15 years, and they have the funniest and brightest son that ever existed, in their humble opinion. Their son has just started middle school, and to the surprise of his mom and dad, he loves math as his favorite subject and hopes to be an engineer one day. He’s involved in a variety of activities, including band, Robotics, Scouts, and chess club, so he keeps his parents on their toes. Renee’s own personal interests include cooking with her friends in their Cooking Club, enjoying a good rock show or comedy show, and spending time with their cats, Poly and Shadow. Melinda Dabbs is a friend and ally; artist and scientist; and lover of bunnies, mini donkeys, and good coffee – especially when enjoyed with dear friends. She lives in East Tennessee with the man of her dreams, their two precious boys, and their two squishy rescue buns. If you were able to examine her lifeblood under a microscope, you’d discover a rainbow of colorful inspiration fueling her soul. Her creative heart is especially energized by the world of surface pattern design, but her affinity for repeat patterns might be subconsciously influenced by the fact she has twins. Yes, her hands and her heart are beyond full! Recorded on Feb 18, 2025 Additional Links: Cara: theestuary.org/cara-dorris theestuary.org/dream-therapy @thepeacebetween Megan: scalemodelmusic.com @coach.rox Melinda: melindadabbs.com Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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The Healer
Mar 30, 202501:06:22Tap to summarizeThis episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” Hosts Sarah Saturday and Tarri Driver discuss the “Healer” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the letter. They also interview Marcia Drut-Davis, one of the original contemporary childfree by choice advocates. Marcia has used her experience, strength, and wisdom to encourage, mentor, and advocate for women all over the world. Marcia Drut-Davis is a woman who believes that life is about taking risks. On her website, Childfree Reflections, she writes that “choosing paths for ourselves is often frightening, but without risking, you stay where you are.” She’s the author of the 2013 memoir “Confessions of a Childfree Woman: A Life Spent Swimming Against the Mainstream,” and the book “What?! You Don’t Want Children?” that was published in 2020. She’s famous (or infamous) for her 1974 “60 Minutes” interview about her decision to not have children, after which she received death threats and lost the teaching job she had been in for fifteen years. She’s been interviewed on numerous childfree podcasts, has been the keynote speaker at The NotMom summit, and has been featured on two documentaries (To Kid Or Not To Kid and My So-Called Selfish Life). For over 5 decades, Marcia has helped pave the way for women who are childfree by choice. She is a living legend! Recorded on Jan 2, 2025 Additional Links: Marcia Drut-Davis on Instagram: @childfree_guru Marcia’s Official Website: childfreereflections.com Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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The Jester
Mar 17, 202500:56:18Tap to summarizeThis episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” Hosts Sarah and Tarri discuss the “Jester” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the letter. They also interview Maryjane Fahey, founder of Glorious Broads: Sages Not Saints, an online epicenter of confident, unconventional Broads over 50. Maryjane Fahey is on her fifth reinvention as founder of Glorious Broads, the epicenter of confident, unconventional Broads over 50. She cut her teeth in print, art directing, rebranding and launching magazines from Fast Company and Women’s Health to The Boston Globe, then rode the internet tsunami as launching editor of AARP’s Disrupt Aging, writer for Bustle, TZR, Huffington Post and co-author of a book called Dumped. Glorious Broads is now her focus and love child – “I want to inspire women to say ‘I WANNA BE THAT BROAD’ and see fear mongering about age become a thing of the past in my lifetime. Let roaring into age prevail.” Recorded on Jan 9, 2025 Additional Links: Glorious Broads Website: gloriousbroads.com Glorious Broads on Instagram: @gloriousbroads Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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The Protector
Feb 28, 202500:56:29Tap to summarizeThis episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” They discuss the “Protector” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the letter. They also interview Emma Duval, creator of the online “Childfree History Museum.” Emma Duval is a writer who’s passionate about history, especially women’s history. She created the Online Childfree History Museum as a way to share her research on the history of women without children. She’s working on a non-fiction book about childless and childfree women, and she has a book coming out in Fall of 2025 called “Unwed and Unbothered.” Recorded on Nov 19, 2024 Additional Links: Emma’s Website: www.childfreehistory.com Emma on Instagram: @millennialemma Childfree History Museum: https://childfreehistory.com/ Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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The Sage
Feb 14, 202501:10:20Tap to summarizeThis episode introduces the next of 12 letters from their collaborative visual arts project “Letters to Our Unborn Children: An Exploration of a Woman’s Decision to Remain Child-Free by Choice.” They discuss the “Sage” archetype behind the Letter, and share their research and insights around the themes in the letter. They also interview paintress and surfer Caroline Zimmermann. Whether searching for powder, the perfect wave, or the perfect light to paint, Caroline Zimmermann’s passion for travel has led her to all hemispheres of the earth. Caroline’s paintings in oils over the past 50 years document her experiences in the vastly different environs of the South Pacific, Caribbean, Tuscany, Provence, the English countryside, and Indonesia, as well as the coast and mountains of her native California. In her richly painted compositions, shadows and vibrant colors create deep impressions evoking memories among those familiar with these settings. Caroline began painting in oils at the age of six, nurtured by creative parents and then immersed herself in the artistically rich setting of Laguna Beach. Recorded on Oct 3, 2024 Additional Links: Caroline’s Official Website Caroline on Instagram Caroline’s Linktree Caroline’s YouTube Find more about the Letters project at letterstoourunbornchildren.com
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