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- [00:00]
Jonathan Cohen
Mind breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep.
- [00:04]
Mayim Bialik
Spring is in the air and so are all of the allergens that come with it. Spring allergens means you need more sleep, but there are a ton of factors that can prevent us from getting a good night's rest. Night sweats, back pain, feeling the person next to you when they roll over a million times. We were so excited to hear that Helix wanted to partner with us. I've had my Helix mattress for about five years now and I have been sleeping so much better and Jonathan and also our kids love their Helix mattresses and all of those issues. Night sweats, back pain, motion transfer. Those things are significantly better with a Helix mattress. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door, which is so much fun. With free shipping in the US they have a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. Plus their Happy with Helix guarantee. Rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure that you're completely satisfied with your new Mattress. Go to helixsleep do for 27% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com breakdown for 27% off sitewide helixsleep.com breakdown with Verbo Care help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists, so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind. Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.
- [01:30]
Jonathan Cohen
And I'm Jonathan Cohen.
- [01:31]
Mayim Bialik
And welcome to our breakdown. We're just here checking in the day after Thanksgiving to remind you all that we are thankful for all of you and especially thankful for all of the incredible topics we get to explore and the incredible people that we get to speak to here. We hope you're enjoying your week and today we're gonna revisit an older episode that that is very near and dear to our hearts. And I'm laughing because there's a lot of funny things about this episode. We're going to re release our episode with Matthew McConaughey. I don't even think Jonathan. Do I even need to like, list his credits?
- [02:07]
Jonathan Cohen
People know him from a variety of films and televisions and like he's been everywhere. He's been everywhere. He's done everything.
- [02:16]
Mayim Bialik
Most recently I saw him in contact with Jodie Foster. I had never seen it. And it is a young Matthew McConaughey.
- [02:23]
Jonathan Cohen
I don't have his bio in front of me, but how like, has he won an Academy Award? He's been nominated. He's like, he's A legitimate actor.
- [02:30]
Mayim Bialik
Maybe he's one with these things. We don't know. But what we do know is how to talk to Matthew McConaughey about his childhood. His parents divorced and remarried each other three times. That's a little spoiler alert. He talks about everything with us around his career, considering a run for political office. We talk about his book that had just come out when we spoke to him about. Also, let's not forget I asked him the question, do you have any idea who we are? So if that's not enough to tune in, I don't know what is.
- [03:01]
Jonathan Cohen
Mime and I have had a wonderful Thanksgiving. We spent some time hiking in nature. It was phenomenal to have a little bit of peace and calm. And we are excited to dive back into podcasting. So we hope everyone also had a phenomenal Thanksgiving. For those people who enjoy being with your family, Fantastic. For those people whose family are complicated and maybe bring up all the emotions that they can observe and witness and feel themselves learning from, we're here with you, too.
- [03:34]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, my goodness, Jonathan, sometimes you just say, happy Thanksgiving. Have a good autumn.
- [03:39]
Jonathan Cohen
That's what happens when you go visit your family. But for everyone else, as a friendly reminder, you can get more of us on Substack. Check out Mayim Bialik's breakdown on Substack, where Mayim and I do deep dives and release content not released anywhere else. Join the growing Breaker community.
- [03:54]
Mayim Bialik
And now, we hope you enjoy taking a listen at our episode with Matthew McConaughey. Happy Thanksgiving. Break it down. So do you have any idea who we are?
- [04:06]
Matthew McConaughey
I have some more of an idea.
- [04:07]
Mayim Bialik
Well, we can't believe that you're here talking to us. And I was thinking, what favor did he have to do to come speak to us?
- [04:15]
Matthew McConaughey
Did I do any favors? Is there something I don't know about, Jonathan? Do you know anything about that? Maybe I did that. I don't know that I did.
- [04:20]
Jonathan Cohen
It was a long campaign. It was pressure from all sides to get him here. We had deep seated spies in Texas.
- [04:28]
Matthew McConaughey
Gathering dirt got me and I didn't even know what it was.
- [04:31]
Mayim Bialik
That's what I assumed. So where do we begin? I read this book. It's called Greenlights. Not surprised that it is a number one New York Times bestseller. You know, one of the things that kind of struck me is it is not a classic memoir, you know, in the sense that that people often think of a memoir. It really is kind of a journey into your journey, as it were. I guess I wanted to sort of start with these two wet dreams you had.
- [04:56]
Matthew McConaughey
Yeah. Thank goodness. I wouldn't be sitting there talking to you right now if I didn't have those two wet dreams.
- [05:01]
Mayim Bialik
That's true. Now, you had two dreams that sent you on two separate and very specific journeys in your life. Was it the same dream twice?
- [05:13]
Matthew McConaughey
That's the. That's why.
- [05:14]
Mayim Bialik
Right? It's the same dream.
- [05:17]
Matthew McConaughey
Exact same dream. I had this dream in 1993.
- [05:23]
Mayim Bialik
Whoa.
- [05:23]
Matthew McConaughey
I woke up. That was a wet dream. Boy, the elements of that dream do not add up to a typical wet dream. What was that about? Oh, okay, okay.
- [05:31]
Mayim Bialik
Another thing that I related to you with, because I sometimes have dreams like that, but they're not sexual. It's just like a thing and it's happening, but none of them take me to places.
- [05:39]
Matthew McConaughey
Getting away with it as long as we can.
- [05:41]
Mayim Bialik
That's so weird. Okay, go ahead. I shut up.
- [05:43]
Matthew McConaughey
So then I have the dream again. Exact same dream, exact same outcome, frame. The dream was the exact same frame. For frame 11 seconds. Bam. Well, it's the second time that I go. In 1996, four years later, that I go, whoa, that was the exact same dream, the same outcome. That's a sign that's telling me something. I got to chase that down. That's when I went off and chased down Peru, because the two things in the dream were the Amazon river and African tribesmen, and that was my geographical point. So then I think my dream's over. I've chased it down. Cut to three years later, in 1999. I had the dream the third time, which tells me I gotta chase down the second half, which was the African tribesman, and I haven't had it since. If I have it again.
- [06:29]
Mayim Bialik
You might have it tonight, Matthew. You might have it tonight.
- [06:32]
Matthew McConaughey
I hope so. But if I have it again, I don't know what the hell I'll be. Jason, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it. Revel in the post.
- [06:39]
Mayim Bialik
Well, and one of. One of the other things that I really liked about your book and also kind of about your perspective is you come from a religious consciousness that's very infused in kind of the culture that you grew up in. Meaning it's not overtly Christian, it's not overtly dogmatic. You have a lot of appreciation for a lot of different practices and a lot of different kind of traditions. But, you know, this kind of experience is a. Is a very mystical, spiritual, profound experience. And I mean, in another culture, in another time, we would call you a prophet. So was there some element that you felt of, like, personal prophecy or, like. Yeah. How do you kind of frame that?
- [07:18]
Matthew McConaughey
I took it as a direct line from the world. The Prime Mover, the Waymaker, whatever we want to call it, the Uncaused Cause, whatever. I took it as a direct line of truth, a lightning bolt that was saying. I knew it was specific and only for me, and originally for me. I knew that this was not something I was going to go share. Hey, have you ever had this dream with this outcome? I knew it was an original experience that I had. No one had said, hey, one day you might have this dream, and if you do listen to it, it was mine and mine only and my. So I sat there and after the second time said, okay, what? I got to listen to this. I got to heed this call. I've never had something so specific. If the dream would have been similar to the first one with the same outcome, I probably wouldn't have done anything about it. But it shook my floor because it took me back to the time I had the first dream. And it was exactly every detail, every frame. I remember it's 11 frames, like a movie. One second, two second, three. And I remember all the angles, angles, angles. 11 of them. 11 seconds, ejaculation. Wake up. Whoa. Hey. How about that?
- [08:19]
Mayim Bialik
What was that little kiss? Was that for me?
- [08:23]
Matthew McConaughey
Sure. That little kiss was, wow, you know, going. All the elements of that dream sound like a nightmare, but they weren't. They were the opposite. Ooh. Okay. Flip the script on that. I like this version. So then what is it? Yeah, that's why. That's. That's why I chased it. And did I feel like it was a. Yeah. A prophetic call for me to go follow? Yes.
- [08:45]
Mayim Bialik
What other. Have you had, other specific feelings like that? Actually, I was. I was interviewed this morning, and I was asked to identify some of the most spiritual experiences I've ever had. And I had my second son at home, and I remember that was a very, very singular, mystical, spiritual, like, transcendental kind of experience. Are there other things that you've experienced like that? You know, are you a person that you feel like, oh, I'm in touch with something, I have access to that, or it just kind of drops in.
- [09:16]
Matthew McConaughey
I mean, look, I've had different original, particular, singular experiences on. Usually on my own, when I'm off on one of those trips where I've put myself in a place so that those truths can land, you know, and you can hear them. Like I say, though, they. They hit you, it's like, soft as a Butterfly, but it's a fucking lightning bolt at the same time. You go, whoa, I can't unwrite that. That's. That's talking to me. And I needed. I need to heed that. Look, first child born, that was a biggie for me. I became. I remember I was like. To myself, I was like, I just became immortal biologically so. But even more than that, I was like, okay, this is it. This is what I've dreamed of being all my life. Not immortal, but a father. And here we go. I've had. Look, I don't know why I cry at birth and not death. I don't know why I cry when I hear the story about the person getting out of jail that was wrongly prosecuted and finds his freedom. But I don't cry at the death of something. The birth, springtime of things just light me up. And that's so. And I've been told that's odd. I look around and no one else is crying. And then when they're at the funeral, I'm not crying. And maybe that's me. Maybe that is part of the faith belief as well, because I don't think it's over in this life. Although, I don't know, I believe it's not. And so something about like, oh, great. Not happy for that person to be leaving physically, but there we go. Congratulations.
- [10:45]
Mayim Bialik
You describe a really interesting time that you had. Was it year between high school and college when you went to Australia?
- [10:51]
Matthew McConaughey
Oh, Australia. I bet you love that story.
- [10:53]
Mayim Bialik
I loved a lot of things about that story. So you're a very adventurous spirit and I know that sounds really trite, but, you know, really so much of your life, you know, as you tell it, has been marked by, I mean, you kind of call them green lights, you know, but sort of finding. Finding openings, you know, where sometimes things have seemed closed. You know, I think that sounds like it was an element of your personality. But this particular experience you had in Australia, my favorite part of the story, I think, was your description about getting there, where you're picturing, like, I'm going to have this great time in Australia. And like, the car just keeps going. It's like you described all the kinds of roads you drive on before you just get to shitty dirt. It's like you just kept going and the population signs kept getting smaller and smaller. And, you know, I mean, there's a lot of humor to it, but, you know, as someone trained as a neuroscientist and someone who's been really immersed in mental health and, you know, I grew up with mental illness also in my home. And so, you know, what I heard and what I saw was an unraveling, you know, that you went through at a very critically important time in your life. And you're kind of not. Just because you're. You're many people's image of, like, the American man. You have to understand, my grandparents were about 3ft tall and 3ft wide. And you embody, like, America to us. Like, we came from the shtetls to meet men like this, you know, so, like, I picture you, you know, like, ready to have this journey in Australia. But your transition from high school to college was also one of tremendous challenge. And you ended up. I mean, you took on a very interesting, strict vegetarian diet because you said you craved discipline. You were depressed, my friend, and you were trying to make sense of insanity.
- [12:43]
Matthew McConaughey
I needed some measurement of achievement a day. And eating that head of lettuce with half a bottle of Heinz ketchup pulled, poured over it gave me a sense of accomplishment to run those six miles a day, even though I was losing all the weight, gave me a sense of accomplishment to say out to be celibate, yet still go masturbate in the bathtub every night gave me a sense of accomplishment. I needed these sort of measuring sticks to go. I did that today. I followed through on that because my world was chaos.
- [13:08]
Mayim Bialik
Right. Well, that's. And we call that binding anxiety. I mean, you were finding all sorts of ways to kind of make it make sense. Sense. I don't mean to get all, you know, fancy on you, but, you know, it's like,
- [13:19]
Jonathan Cohen
she loves a good label.
- [13:21]
Mayim Bialik
I love. I love a good label.
- [13:22]
Matthew McConaughey
I do, too.
- [13:23]
Mayim Bialik
There's a tremendous courage to you. Like, there's all these situations that you found yourself in, especially as a young man, where you kind of asserted this courage that kind of seems like it was driven from some other power in you, meaning when you had to ask to be removed from that home. Right. Like, that's a tremendous sense of courage. And I think about your father, and you paint a really fascinating picture of this man. But I think about sort of the ethics that you were, you know, sort of raised with. You're really, like, you're a very classic hero's journey kind of guy. Like, when I think of Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey, like, I picture your story, not the Matthew McConaughey that, like, you know, is famous and that, like, we see on the red carpet and all these things, but, like, this story that you tell is one of really Finding yourself and your courage. A lot of it is around masculinity, but I don't find you toxic. So I'm curious, kind of how you frame that sort of courage, especially. Cause you are this very masculine dude. And you're also a very thoughtful and very dedicated sensitive artist. I know that's kind of a lot of questions in one, but talk a little bit about some of these journeys that you had.
- [14:30]
Matthew McConaughey
Well, let's go to that Australia one. To get the courage to say to go to the Rotary Club and go to the president and go, hey, you think there's any other families I could live with? And then they go away. I don't know. I mean, is everything okay over there? And to still take a high road and go, yeah, yeah, everything's fine. Which it wasn't. But. But, you know, I just. I've got my year here. Can I experience another family? I don't think I would have had that courage if I wouldn't have got the clarity from. The one event that I talk about in the book is when they said, call us mom and Pop. And it at that point, the prior four months of all the wild shit that they had come up with, that I was like, going, okay, I'll do that. Maybe that's a cultural difference. That one was clear to me. I was able to plant my flag, have another binding anxiety and turn it into action and go, I'm binding this. No, I'm not calling you mom and Dad. I have a mom and dad. And I remember saying this. I put this in the book, but I remember saying this. I'll go. I go, thank you for thinking of me that way. It's very polite, but I have a mom and dad. And I remember it going through my head clear. And I go. And I felt I need to contextualize that. I went, and they're still alive. For some reason, I felt I need to throw that out there. That. That would really bolster my argument.
- [15:48]
Mayim Bialik
Not unlike being hit on by someone and being like, I appreciate you'd like to have sex with me, but I have a girlfriend and she's alive and
- [15:56]
Matthew McConaughey
she's sitting right here. Yeah. So that moment was a moment that I needed. Because again, I talk about up to that point, all the confusion, the things that they want me to do that I didn't know was right. I was tabbing up to cultural differences. I didn't have anybody to bounce it off of. Is this cool?
- [16:13]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah.
- [16:13]
Matthew McConaughey
I don't know. I didn't have Dad. I didn't have Mom, I didn't have friends. All I had was the paper that I was writing on. So that moment to have the clarity and go, I'll bet. I'm betting on myself here. This is black and white. This is not a shade of gray. I'm not compromising on this. I'm going forward, going, no, I'm not calling you mom and dad. And I'm sticking to it. And I don't care if I'm wrong. I may end up. I don't care. I'm different. Well, that gave me the courage thing. Go. I'm going to try and get out of here and move in with another family. I'm not going to go home. I'm not going to pull the parachute and get the flight home, but I'm at least going to try and get out of this house. I don't know. I mean, it gave me to go back to the ethics and ethos of certain. The religious underbelly. Responsibility, courage are kind of were ingrained in there in us. And go, you better go. Take care. Take care of yourself. That was part of the masculinity. Step up to the initiation. Go through the initiation. How long can you endure it? Can you step up and go, I am the only. I'm standing for this, and I may be the only one standing for this, but I'm going. I'll go by hook or by crook. That was a big thing for my father, as you read in other rites of passage that I have for him. He's wanted to see that if I was. If I had the courage to stand up for myself in certain situations.
- [17:23]
Mayim Bialik
We call it chutzpah in my family.
- [17:25]
Matthew McConaughey
Chutzpah, all that, the metal, whatever it's called. Did I have it to stand up for myself when I was alone and everyone else disagreed? That was a rite of passage for him, in a way. You bring it up. I performed it over there in a couple ways in Australia and then literally performed it with him. With that bar fight.
- [17:45]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, that bar fight. Yeah.
- [17:47]
Matthew McConaughey
It wasn't. He wasn't happy that I was a fighter. He was just happy that I did something on my own, that I made the choice.
- [17:54]
Mayim Bialik
So let's talk a little bit about the bar fight.
- [17:57]
Jonathan Cohen
Mayim Bialix Breakdown is supported by bioptimizers
- [18:00]
Mayim Bialik
I struggled to get good, quality sleep and I just thought, like, ugh, it's stress. But I learned during perimenopause and menopause, your hormones shift and it affects your magnesium levels. Low magnesium makes everything harder. Not just sleep, but Focus, mood, stress tolerance. That's why we added Magnesium Breakthrough by Bioptimizers to our nightly routine. It's a blend of seven different forms of magnesium designed to support relaxation and overall sleep quality. Try it. See if you wake up more rested and refreshed, you've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain. BIOptimizers offers a 365 day no questions asked money back guarantee. Magnesium Breakthrough is a fantastic way to improve that hormonal imbalance that especially happens with magnesium. And then you have better focus, you have better sleep hygiene in general. Bioptimizers makes it so easy. Here's what you get when you go to bioptimizers.com breaker and use the code breaker. 15 off your entire order and a free bottle of Mass signs. That's Bioptimizer's best selling digestive enzyme added to your order automatically when you use our exclusive code. That's a 20 product free. Free on top of your discount. This is a limited time offer while supplies last. You cannot get this on Amazon. You can't get it in stores. The offer exists in one place. Our link, our code. That's it. So if you were already thinking about trying it, this is the sign. Go to bioptimizers.com breaker use the code breaker. Grab it before it's gone.
- [19:25]
Jonathan Cohen
Make 2026, the year you finally start sleeping again. Mind Balax breakdown is supported by Bioptimizers.
- [19:32]
Mayim Bialik
You know, I struggled to get good quality sleep and I just assumed it was stress. But as I learned during perimenopause and menopause, your hormones shift in a way that affects your magnesium levels. And low magnesium, it makes everything harder. Not just sleep, focus, mood, your tolerance for stress. That's why I have added Magnesium Breakthrough bye bye Optimizers to my nightly routine. It's a blend of seven different forms of magnesium designed to support relaxation and overall sleep quality. Try it. See if you wake up more rested and refreshed, you've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain. BIOptimizers offers a 365 day no questions asked money back guarantee. Magnesium Breakthrough is a huge breakthrough to improve hormonal balance, to help with focus, decrease brain fog, improve sleep hygiene. Overall. Bioptimizers makes it very easy. Jonathan, what do they get when they go to bioptimizers.com breaker and use the code breaker?
- [20:25]
Jonathan Cohen
You get 15% off your entire order and a free bottle of Mass Zymes,
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Mayim Bialik
Bioptimizer's best selling digestive enzyme that'll be added to your order. Automatically when you use our exclusive code,
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Jonathan Cohen
that's a $20 product, free on top of your discount already.
- [20:40]
Mayim Bialik
This is a limited time offer, and while supplies last, you can't get it on Amazon, you can't get it in stores. This offer exists in one place. Our link, our code. That's it. So maybe you were already thinking about it. This is the sign. Go to buyoptimizers.com breaker. Use the code breaker. Grab it before it's gone. Make 2026 the year you finally start sleeping again. I. Like I said, there's something very not toxic sort of about the way that, that, that you talk about, you know, this kind of structure of how you were raised. And I resonate with it a lot because the culture that I come from is very, very patriarchal. There's a lot of. There's a lot of. Because dad said so. And dad decides and dad puts cash on mom's dresser every week, and that's the cash she has for the week. And, you know, like, you know, is very, very old fashioned. But this bar fight, I remember what struck me, and probably because I, I do feel a little bit like we're similar. It was that someone put their hand on your dad when they weren't supposed to.
- [21:33]
Matthew McConaughey
I remember seeing almost the fingers go from outstretched to compressed lightly against his chest. And I was like, that was trespassing. That was, get out the guards, we're going. And the next thing I knew, I'm getting pulled off hearing a voice in my head going, that's enough, son.
- [21:49]
Jonathan Cohen
That's enough.
- [21:49]
Mayim Bialik
And that's like where it got me when he said, that's enough, son. Because it's such a fascinating moment. And it's not that that's the only way that you could show connection or love, but, you know, this portrait that you paint of your dad, he was a very specific man, you know, he was very specific and very definitive. Your mom was too. Your parents were twice divorced and then they married each other. Right. Were you at any of the ceremonies? I was trying to figure out the timing. Okay, so the first, the first time they got divorced was like. Right. Like within a year. Right.
- [22:24]
Matthew McConaughey
Pretty soon after. Yeah. Early 50s.
- [22:27]
Mayim Bialik
Right. Okay.
- [22:28]
Matthew McConaughey
And then the second one, like 1977. Ish.
- [22:32]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, got it.
- [22:32]
Matthew McConaughey
That time when I was living in the trailer park with dad and thought mom was on the extended vacation.
- [22:36]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, yeah, that's. Yeah, she's taking some time. You grew up with a certain amount of drama, right? I mean, there was a certain. I mean, we didn't call it that then it was just.
- [22:46]
Matthew McConaughey
We didn't call it that and we didn't give it the credit to call it drama.
- [22:49]
Mayim Bialik
Right. What I mean, what was it? You know, I describe, like unpredictable predictability was my house. You know, it was predictable. Chaos is kind of how it felt sometimes. Do you have sort of, you know, just for people who may not know. And a lot of it is in the book, but, you know, you're. You're one of three boys. Yeah.
- [23:08]
Matthew McConaughey
What.
- [23:08]
Mayim Bialik
What was it like? What did it feel like?
- [23:10]
Matthew McConaughey
Love. Hard. I Look, I didn't include. And my mom. It's what she doesn't like. What. Which she didn't take well about the book. She was like, all the stories are true about me and your dad. And yeah, my middle finger is broke four times from him doing that. And I deserved every one of them. And that's how I needed to communicate. She goes, but she could have included more stories about how loving we were and how many times we were hugging it out. And I go, you're right. And I didn't. And that was 98% of the time we were loving it. I didn't include those because for me, these stories, I think this is the best I can come up with it. Why I choose to tell these stories as the love stories for my family. They were when the love was tested the most.
- [23:52]
Jonathan Cohen
It's.
- [23:52]
Matthew McConaughey
You thought it was going to break down. You. I thought we thought it was over or from objectively you would think it was over. I never thought it was over. When I watched the fight, when mom pulls out the knife, I never thought that was the end. I thought, ah, here we go.
- [24:06]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, when the cops come sometimes that's just how the evening ends.
- [24:12]
Matthew McConaughey
And they didn't, you know, they handled it right there because. But it was always. It was drama looking back at it. But again, at the time was I crying? Was I. Oh, my God, no, no. Have I been on my dad's back when he, you know, had my brother pinned to a ceiling, you know, this feet kicking, going, stop it. Dad stopping him. Yeah, but what do I remember? I remember that he had Pat up there because Pat lied to him. And once Pat got up, which is about off the floor, about five minutes later, I remember him going, let's load in the truck, boys. Me and my brother and my dad rode in the front cab in the bench seat, me in the middle, windows halfway down, radio half off frequency AC on. Drove to the. All the way across town, it was 45 minutes to the best burger stand there was. In town and it was a school night. It was after bedtime, but it didn't matter. We're getting doubles and you can have a milkshake. That's what I remember. That it always ended with the love. The love always ended. And there was never another word talked. There was no grudge. There was never. Remember what we said yesterday?
- [25:25]
Mayim Bialik
It was over.
- [25:25]
Matthew McConaughey
It's quick, lethal and over.
- [25:27]
Mayim Bialik
You're a dad, you're a parent, and that shit doesn't fly anymore, right? And you say something really specific. I think it's page. I literally said to Jonathan, I don't wanna mention anything he mentions in the first two pages of his book. Cause he'll think I didn't read every single word. And I did. But you mention that you don't identify as a victim. But in the language of today, right, we would say, Matthew, you were traumatized. That's a traumatizing experience. And I wonder now that you're a dad, and especially, you know, you're a. A progressive person. And you know what? How do you frame that as a dad? Because I do raise my kids differently than I was raised. I mean, my children's like, I also did something. Matthew, here's another thing you don't know about me. I recently wrote a screenplay and I directed my first film. And it stars Dustin Hoffman and Candice Bergen and also Simon Helberg and Diana Agron. And I wrote a story about a family that is struggling with mental illness and with loving hard, one could say. And yes, there are absolutely things from my life. I do not want my mother to see it. She has not read it. We've already had several fights and a few therapy sessions about why I don't feel the need for her to see it for some of the reasons you kind of talked about. But the things that I live through, they. They don't need to be repeated that way. Because we do live in a different time and I have a different experience. And it doesn't mean I demonize my parents or my childhood, but I absolutely know that I was to a certain extent conditioned with fear. Because that's how we were raised. And it, quote, works. It works. And it's. It's a choice that I make to. To try not to do that with my kids. Right? But at the same time, I don't want them to feel like everything about the way I was raised was shitty and wrong and it was bad and they traumatized me. These were complicated people who fucking did the best that they could. And like, that's kind of what it looked like, you know, they did better than was done to them. And, you know, my grandparents fled Eastern Europe. Everybody was just doing the best that they could, and my parents did the best that they could. And you're absolutely right. The story that I tell is much more interesting when I dig into the hard stuff and I dig into that complexity and the conflict and that tension. And one of the notes I got from my director's cut was this abuse seems gratuitous. And I was like, oh, well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that it makes you uncomfortable, but I wonder sort of what your perspective is as a date dad. How do you frame that with your own kids?
- [27:55]
Matthew McConaughey
Well, my mother's been living with us now for 18 months. Because of COVID Yes. And she's about to turn 90. And, you know, like you said, I didn't grow. We grew up. And why? Because I told you so.
- [28:09]
Mayim Bialik
That's right.
- [28:10]
Matthew McConaughey
And fear based. And I write about this. Are there things I didn't do that I shouldn't have done for fear that, oh, that ass whooping might hurt more than how much I'm going to enjoy doing this? Yes. And I'm glad I didn't date where I had other friends that did. I knew there were consequences on the other side, and that helped keep me in line in certain ways. I didn't fear random, especially from my dad. I didn't fear any random. Like I said, every time I got in trouble, gosh, dog. And I look back, I knew it at the time. I'd earned it. I knew it, knew I'd earned it.
- [28:40]
Mayim Bialik
When I opened my mouth and something fresh came out, I knew it was coming back.
- [28:44]
Matthew McConaughey
You know, I. You know, I've. I've tried to evolve as a parent, too. I don't, as you see the book, I don't judge my parents at how they did is right or wrong or, oh, you can't do it that way anymore. I'm trying to instill the same values my parents tried to instill in. In us. I try to do it in different ways. Do we have long or much longer discussions with our kids? Yes. Do we choose?
- [29:07]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, they have so many feelings. Children today, they got so many. I said, you think anyone asked me where I'd like to eat out? We ate out once a month. And you went wherever they told you and you ate everything on the plate. You don't feel like Chinese food.
- [29:20]
Matthew McConaughey
And no, corn does not count as a vegetable in the line at Luby's cafeteria.
- [29:26]
Jonathan Cohen
Yeah.
- [29:27]
Matthew McConaughey
So I. We have. Trying to instill the same values. Don't really do physical punishment and consequences. Try. It's tough figuring out, what do you take from them that they love to make them think, oh, I, you know, I got my screen time taken away. Why? Because I did this or I told you this favor didn't fall. It's tough figuring those things out.
- [29:49]
Mayim Bialik
It doesn't make sense to them. If I fibbed, why you take away my screen time?
- [29:53]
Matthew McConaughey
Yeah. What's the math? The math doesn't add up.
- [29:56]
Mayim Bialik
I used to say, how do you stop hitting? I can't cut off your hands. Like, I don't know what the logical consequences. Don't hit your brother.
- [30:03]
Matthew McConaughey
I hear you. Or you get hit back. Wow, that hurt.
- [30:06]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, exactly, right?
- [30:08]
Matthew McConaughey
You know, and it's quicker that way. And it's. It's. It's immediate. And it sure as hell is more than it can be. At least an attention getter. Camille and I are trying to do it differently than. Than my parents did, or even her parents did. And are we doing it better? I don't know. We'll see how the kids get out there and negotiate. Me and my two brothers have done all right, you know, with how. And my older brothers had it rougher than I did. I was the baby boy. I was more the mama's boy. I didn't, I didn't. I didn't have it as rough as probably as they did. Well, that's what they say. I would say I learned to break the rules and get away with shit better. But, you know, I mean, I'm already in this time now where my kids are 13, 11, and 8. Well, you start off, there's a rule that every kid follows. That's it. Everyone follow the same rule. Then all of a sudden, they start becoming their own little people and you gotta go, wait, I'm gonna treat you fairly, but I'm not gonna treat you all the same, because I know you, sir. If you forgot to feed the dogs, you actually looked at the empty dog bowl and said, don't get away with it. But I know you, dear. You looked at the dog, you didn't look at the dog. You just freaking forgot. So the same consequences. Not for you. Because yours wasn't intentionally, you know, you didn't intentionally walk away from it and not do it. So I'm trying to customize those. How do we teach them? We are big on consequences and also big on the definition of consequences. Get to bad rap is always being the bad. Yep. Consequences are. Have equal amount of being the good. The pleasure as well. We are pretty disciplined family. We like our. We like. I like the manners and graces that my parents caught me with. I like sirs and ma' ams and please and things.
- [31:44]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, I don't let my kids call any adult by their first name. Freaks me out. They are miss or mister.
- [31:49]
Matthew McConaughey
It's. It's a great thing of respect. I even call my kids Mr. And Mrs. Now just to get in the lingo, going back and forth, calling them out of respect. So we try to give them more agency. We listen to more debates than my parents would have listened to.
- [32:06]
Mayim Bialik
Holy moly, will they stop talking someday? It's like, I understand you have feelings, but that doesn't mean that they win. Yes, I understand you're in terrible psychic pain that they don't have the sweet potato fries, but I'm not going to another restaurant. You're just not gonna have fries tonight.
- [32:24]
Matthew McConaughey
I know. Yeah. Just not gonna happen. Oh, now that. Now it's over, now the whole night sucks. Really? Because no sweet potato fries. The sweet potato fries became more important than our time together is. Fine, then you go. Then you find yourself and it's past bedtime and you're up late. You're going. As you know, to say no is a hell of a lot harder than saying yes.
- [32:42]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, totally.
- [32:43]
Matthew McConaughey
Keeps you up at night and all of a sudden it's getting into your time with your spouse, it's getting down with your partner. They're staying up late. So we, you know, another one we've tried here recently is like one of the. One of the kids doesn't listen to the rules. Okay, I'm gonna walk around and ignore you for a day. Why? Because you ignored me.
- [33:02]
Mayim Bialik
Jonathan does that to me.
- [33:07]
Matthew McConaughey
I mean, it's. It's. It's a quiet but. But, but good one.
- [33:10]
Mayim Bialik
It's silent but deadly. Literally, you know?
- [33:12]
Matthew McConaughey
Yes, yes. You know, why didn't I. Why did. Why. Why didn't I get a plate set? Oh. Didn't know you were here eating. Why? Well.
- [33:21]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, and you know how long that conditioning takes. One day. That's a one day lesson.
- [33:28]
Matthew McConaughey
I hope so. But. Yeah. I'm trying to evolve and do it differently than my parents did. And again with no judgment to saying that they did it wrong. You explained with your parents I would use the same verbiage for mine. They did it the best they could and their intentions were right. And I know that it was really important to my mom and dad to go. We got 18 years to help you get ready to go negotiate life. And life's a bitch. Civilization's hard. Not everyone's. For you, it's thorny out there. You're gonna need a helmet. You're gonna have to stand up for yourself. And so you know, for what, to what extent. A lot of that, A lot of that worked.
- [34:04]
Jonathan Cohen
This episode is sponsored by Wondering Jews, an open door media brand.
- [34:09]
Mayim Bialik
If you've ever found yourself feeling like you have more questions than answers, you're in good company. The Jewish people have been like that for thousands of years. Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam is a podcast where two of today's most dynamic Jewish voices, Michal Bittone and Noam Weissman, dig into the biggest questions about life through a Jewish lens. It's the kind of conversation where you'll laugh, learn something new, and probably shout in disagreement at least once. Michal and Noam tackle the tough topics like antisemitism in America, what happens after we die, and the future of religion with guests like Bret Stephens, Michael Rapoport and Sarah Hurwitz. And this past month, in honor of Jewish American Heritage Month, they've been celebrating some of the Jewish lives and institutions that have shaped American life, from food to music and comedy. Thoughtful, joyful and always honest. That's Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam, a production of Unpacked. Find it on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube and make sure to hit subscribe. Check out Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam podcast and subscribe at Unpacked Bio nmx. Wherever you go, whatever they get into, from chill time to everyday adventures, protect your dog from parasites with Credelio Guattro. For full safety information, side effects and warnings, visit cordelioquattrolabel.com consult your vet or call 1-888-545-5973. Ask your vet for Cordelia Quatro and visit quattrodog.com one of your kind of earliest thoughts, you know, about sort of where you see your life. I mean there's some really, there's some really sweet actual in your handwriting, which I really loved and I love trying to decipher your, you know, your scribbles and stuff, especially when you really kind of get going. But you wanted to be a dad. You knew you wanted to be a dad. Is it what you imagined? How's it different? How's it the same?
- [36:03]
Matthew McConaughey
When I had the first child and I write about this and I don't know how it is for the mother, but for the father, the man's never more Masculine than that time when he has his first child again. For me, I was like, I'm immortal. Like, literally, biologically. Wow. I am now, immediately now, inherently, instinctually, living for the future where yesterday I wasn't. I am a shepherd. I'm a postman. And wherever I go out in the world, they may not be with me physically, but I got them right here. And my decisions are based on consideration for them, too, and their future. Second thing that I was really surprised me, which I think a lot of parents run into. This is. I thought it was a lot more environment. Yes. Than it was DNA.
- [36:51]
Mayim Bialik
It's a lot of DNA.
- [36:53]
Matthew McConaughey
Oh, DNA is the champ. Okay. Biology, I got. I'm all for the giddy up, but the giddy up ain't beating the biology. Okay. They are who they are. You know, we can shepherd them and form them, give them, lay in front of them what turns them on and try to keep from them what may really harm them and show how that feels good to them and how it's good for them and hopefully good for others. But, boy, you know, other than that, they are. You know, you teach. My buddy says, what you teach them how to read and write in literacy. After that, you don't know if they're petunia or an oak tree. I believe DNA, they are who they are. And that was a big surprise for me as a parent. I've heard that's a surprise to a lot of parents that I came in thinking it was a lot more like what we do as parents, which is
- [37:37]
Mayim Bialik
not to say you shouldn't pay attention and be there.
- [37:39]
Matthew McConaughey
No, absolutely not. No. You don't just go, yeah, absolutely. But, you know, especially as they get older. And I said earlier, I'll treat you fairly, but not all the same. I see three different, completely different individuals now where. When they're younger and they're more of a young, you know, marshmallows, whatever we want to call them. Marshmallows.
- [37:57]
Mayim Bialik
Yes.
- [37:58]
Matthew McConaughey
They're. They're, you know, you're trying to teach them to block and tackle and do the. And just you kind of get up and eat and clean up after yourself, that kind of thing. Now, it's very specific for.
- [38:08]
Mayim Bialik
Do you have one that's a mini you? Do you have a mini me?
- [38:12]
Matthew McConaughey
The boys. Camilla. It's easy for Camilla, my wife, to say. And she says, did you see that? I'm like, yeah, right. She's like, what are you. Yeah, right about. That's you. And I get it. I see it in both of them. A Lot in completely different ways. Eldest, very much a perfectionist, very much wants and is very clear about what he wants and has incredible debates about it. Takes. Take the coffee table with the microphone and has slideshows. And you're like going, damn, that's a good argument. That's not what we decided to do. But that's a. That's a great presentation. So he's a. He's got that to do whatever about hook or crook to get what he wants. And has the marketeering sort of side, the salesman side. I got another one that's really wonderfully stubborn. They're both wonderfully stubborn. And I'm. Well, you know, you want to walk that line. I think with kids. I tried to. To go, I'm glad you're a perfectionist because you're clear on what you want. At the same time, understand that the world can do unto you, and you can also be open to. We were just having a conversation a minute ago about something about it. You got to try to. Do you have the ability to hop into the opposite opinion and just understand it and just sit in it. It doesn't. I know what you're doing. You're getting scared, thinking, well, if I think of that opinion as a possibility, that means I'm weakening my. No, I'm not trying to convert you, but can you jump over? And that's something that kids learn to do and adults are still learning to do, to talk about it frankly. So, yeah, I see a lot of myself in them, and if I don't, my wife reminds me. Yeah, that was you.
- [39:43]
Mayim Bialik
I'd like to talk about what's behind you, because what I see is just stacks of money. Is that just stacks of money behind you?
- [39:48]
Matthew McConaughey
The second person who said, you see how much money's back there?
- [39:52]
Mayim Bialik
Is that just how you do your interview?
- [39:55]
Matthew McConaughey
Just like me and Floyd Mayweather.
- [39:59]
Mayim Bialik
But there are two flags behind you. I believe that is the flag of the United States of America. And is that the flag of the great state of Texas?
- [40:06]
Matthew McConaughey
That is.
- [40:07]
Mayim Bialik
Where are you? Are you in the Capitol building?
- [40:09]
Matthew McConaughey
I'm in my office in Austin. And those are stacks of money. Now, those are actually greenlight books.
- [40:17]
Mayim Bialik
Are you serious? That's amazing.
- [40:19]
Matthew McConaughey
I love that symbol under the COVID
- [40:22]
Mayim Bialik
Take the COVID Yeah, that's what I was noticing.
- [40:24]
Matthew McConaughey
Symbols. That's what's cool right there. So I want. That's my. You know, I was looking for my Nike swoosh with the book, and that's. I was. And I've always said this. That's why I made that cover of my face on it 3/4 hopefully to tell the reader I pull my face off the thing and look under it.
- [40:42]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, if I had a nickel for every time I said sorry. Okay, sorry. Jesus. I think I'm your new brother from another mother. I think Woody Harrelson needs to move over.
- [40:56]
Matthew McConaughey
Scoot over wood.
- [40:59]
Mayim Bialik
So do you talk? I mean we can completely edit this out if not. But do you talk about some of the buzz surrounding your. Oh, so please tell us. I would vote for you for president, but there's a couple steps before that, correct. Logically, maybe you do have political inclinations, as it were. Is this something you talk about?
- [41:20]
Matthew McConaughey
I have leadership inclinations and less than inclinations. I feel like I'm being pulled that way. I feel like it's. When my, you know, my Saturday night, 2am buzzed ideas go to places where I look at and go that's, that's. I think that'd be good for people. I think that'd be useful. It's my natural free association mind goes to things naturally and has been for quite a few years now. I don't know what that category embassy is going to be. Do I need to consider politics for that? Well, I'd be foolish not to. Yeah, but it's in a way politics got to repurpose, redefined because it's some small thinking right now it's both. Each party thinks they are democracy, they're not. And then democracy still needs continual redefinition and needs its own challenging. So I'm looking and I'm going through my own process now and have been diligently have gone, well, what is my emc. What is my way forward? What is. How can I be most useful not only to most amount of people but to me and my family as well? Because it's got to be a selfish decision. It's a very personal decision that would come with great sacrifice. But I got to. I'm trying to measure that. Where would I be most useful to myself, my family and the most amount of people. Now would that be politics? I don't know. It's a bit of. It's a bit of a broken business that needs a lot of repair right now. And as I said, redefinition. Am I the right person to do that? Is that sort of the test?
- [42:44]
Mayim Bialik
Are you asking me consider?
- [42:46]
Matthew McConaughey
I'm asking that you do.
- [42:48]
Jonathan Cohen
Are you asking for her as your running mate?
- [42:50]
Mayim Bialik
I would be.
- [42:51]
Matthew McConaughey
It's a binding anxiety.
- [42:53]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, stop it. Never gonna let me live it down. Oh, Matthew, when I see you at all our red carpet parties. You'll say, binding anxiety. You do a lot of really interesting. Also other things. You do hold a professorship, as it were. What is your time commitment for that? Like, how often do you do that?
- [43:10]
Matthew McConaughey
It's very. It works with me very well. I have a professor that's in there daily named Scott Rice, who really has taken my baton of the class. I created and runs it day to day. I go by the classes in person and. Or I zoom. I'm able to zoom in more to talk to the class. What we do is take. It's called Script Screen. We'll take like your script, your movie you just directed. You put up your original script next to your movie. Wow. They're very different. Right? So what we do is we'll go. I would say come to you and go, I have a class. It's a full semester. Can you share your first script and with notes about. Here's what I. What? Then they. The kids get up and they declare, here's what movie I see. Here's the drama. Here's the things. You hand them the second script. Wait, what happened to so and so? These changes. Do we know why you hand them the third? You hand them the shooting script.
- [43:58]
Mayim Bialik
That's amazing.
- [43:59]
Matthew McConaughey
Then you show them a first assembly. Now they think they're going on the final cut.
- [44:03]
Mayim Bialik
I'm editing literally in the next room. Before I got here, I was editing. And that's what I'm going to do later today. I'm literally. I just did my first cut and working on my second. That's. And it's a complete. I'm totally making the actors do everything I wanted that they didn't do in person. But it's a totally different movie. Yeah.
- [44:20]
Matthew McConaughey
Then you talk about that. And it's just the many ways to skin the cat, like every movie. How do you. Because, you know, I was in film school and I thought it was a dictatorship. I thought, oh, you make a film, it has to be every word for word. The intentionality has to be super clear. Well, I was closed off to magic and inspiration. Then I go work with Richard Linklater, and he's very much like, will take an idea from anywhere. And I was like, oh, you can get great ideas and be open to inspiration anywhere along the way. And I saw a completely different way of making movies in a much more successful way. So it's a class that shows. Puts the science behind the magic of how we get how we tell stories.
- [44:52]
Mayim Bialik
That's really. That's beautiful. And I also do want to mention your Just Keep Living foundation. Tell us about it. Because we're going to post, you know, links and stuff so people can learn more about it.
- [45:02]
Matthew McConaughey
We have an after school curriculum in title I schools. Title I schools are lower income schools through the United States. We're in a little over 40 schools and I think nine states. I have a curriculum on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And these young men and women come and they set a physical exercise goal, which may be I want to make the soccer team but I can't run half a mile. It may be I want to lose three pounds so I can fit my prom dress in two months, whatever that is. We're going to help you kind of get that. We had nutritional goals. Hey, you went and spent 42 bucks on burgers last night. Great, we're all for burgers. But we're going to take you and your mom or your dad to the super supermarket with the same 42 bucks. We're gonna walk down the produce section, grab some beans, maybe some meat, we're gonna come home, have a healthier dinner and you get to cook it with your family. We also have community service they all have to give back to their community. And then the final sort of halo over our curriculum is gratitude. The students share something out loud they're thankful for in their life with each other. And as you know with your neuro education, sharing what you're thankful for when you're in high school ain't cool. So these kids thought that when we first started off, they were like, I'm thankful, just foundation. They'd mumble stuff. And then all of a sudden I was like, ah. They, they're feeling this is really heavy that they have to tell something dramatic and real. And I, Camilla and I went one day and I was like, got to me. And I was like, I'm thankful. I woke up this morning, I got a French kiss from my wife right when I woke up. And they all went, oh. But it opened the floodgate and it made them go, oh, I'm happy. Halloween's coming, I'm gonna get candy. I'm happy. I'm feeling sexy today. Now once that happened, they started to share things like that my grandmother got out of the hospital, that my dad got a job that my sister's now helped and they share it. And the coolest thing we've heard about it is kids say their favorite thing about the gratitude circle is that for the first time in their life, they're hearing their peers say thank you for Something that they have in their life that they've never said thank you for. So that's what we're doing.
- [46:57]
Mayim Bialik
That's really beautiful. We have a little rapid fire set of questions. Okay.
- [47:02]
Matthew McConaughey
I thought we were in that.
- [47:03]
Mayim Bialik
Okay. Such a comedian. All right, Rapid fire questions. What was your mother right about?
- [47:15]
Matthew McConaughey
My mother was right about the fact that there's great value in denial if you really commit to it.
- [47:26]
Jonathan Cohen
Take it to your grave.
- [47:27]
Mayim Bialik
Holy Toledo. What was your father right about?
- [47:31]
Matthew McConaughey
In an intimate time. And he told me this when I was 12. We were having our birds and bees talk. He said, you're gonna be at an intimate time with a girl. You're gonna like a girl. Y' all gonna get off. You're gonna get off saying, have some time together. You are gonna kiss. And it may go further than that may move to here. We talked about it. And he goes. It may carry on. He goes. Those are the stages that intimacy goes through. He goes. When you're with whoever that girl is, if you feel them hesitate, don't go any further. He goes. And he goes. And what happens if you don't go any further is they may even go, oh, yeah, no, it's okay. Don't wait till next time. And then. But if there's a reflex to stop the forward momentum of the intimacy stop. Then lived. Live to live to love another day. And he. And it was a good one. When I think back about it.
- [48:25]
Mayim Bialik
Nice.
- [48:25]
Matthew McConaughey
When I. When I'll share with my kids.
- [48:27]
Mayim Bialik
Location you've been in that promotes the best mental health for you.
- [48:31]
Matthew McConaughey
I love desert. I love the desert.
- [48:33]
Mayim Bialik
You have a lot of little sayings. You're so southern. But what's your favorite mantra?
- [48:39]
Matthew McConaughey
My favorite mantra. Let me give you a real Southern one. Because this came from the Southern man, a 92 year old.
- [48:44]
Mayim Bialik
There's gonna be a lot of apostrophes in this. There's going to be a lot.
- [48:47]
Matthew McConaughey
There won't be any GS on the end of any of the ins.
- [48:51]
Mayim Bialik
The GS are all behind you, Matthew. They're lined up on that table. Sorry.
- [48:55]
Matthew McConaughey
All the G's. Me and Floyd. Money, load them up. Lopez truck is out front.
- [49:03]
Mayim Bialik
Mantra.
- [49:06]
Matthew McConaughey
If there's one thing you can depend on people being, it's people
- [49:13]
Mayim Bialik
perfect. Who has been your best spiritual teacher?
- [49:17]
Matthew McConaughey
Pastor Dave and Brother Christian.
- [49:20]
Mayim Bialik
They're in your book. Who are you most competitive with?
- [49:24]
Matthew McConaughey
Me.
- [49:26]
Mayim Bialik
Last one. One of the really remarkable things that I loved in this book and that I love about you. I promise, I really learned so much about you from this book, and especially because I'm trained as an actor, but, you know, write and, you know, just directed for the first time. You have a tremendous sense of intuition. You have a tremendous sense of intuition. And when you need to make a move, when you feel something with most passion, your last rapid fire question, when has been your moment of your best and strongest intuition in your life?
- [49:58]
Matthew McConaughey
She was moving right to left from my eyeliner. The place was kind of fuzzy, and not just because there was fake smoke coming from the floor. The amount of tequila I had in me had something to do with it. These caramel arms had a little bit of sheen on them. Just a touch of humidity coming out of this turquoise dress. And I said, what is that? And as I said it, I started to get up, but then I said I'd try to catch her eye. And I waved to get her attention. And as I was waving to get her attention, I heard my mother in my 15 old ear going, get your ass up, boy, and go introduce yourself to that woman. You don't wave this woman over. And I went, yes, ma'. Am. And I got up and went over myself to who is now the mother of my children and my wife, Canola.
- [50:49]
Mayim Bialik
That's beautiful. This has been an absolute pleasure. I don't know what favor you were repaying to come speak to us, but we are so thrilled. It's been a real honor to speak to you.
- [50:59]
Matthew McConaughey
It was super fun and interesting. Let's do it again.
- [51:05]
Jonathan Cohen
You crack some good jokes.
- [51:06]
Mayim Bialik
I make Matthew McConaughey my best friend.
- [51:09]
Jonathan Cohen
I think Woody Harrelson is a little bit in the way. We have to.
- [51:12]
Mayim Bialik
I think I make Matthew laugh more than what he does.
- [51:14]
Jonathan Cohen
We should have a contest. We'll get both of them in the same room with you and see who does a better job.
- [51:20]
Mayim Bialik
I'm very proud of myself.
- [51:21]
Jonathan Cohen
He did a great job.
- [51:22]
Mayim Bialik
I barely have seen movies that he's in. I've seen, like, two movies, but I love them.
- [51:27]
Jonathan Cohen
I think I did a good job not mentioning Dazed and Confused.
- [51:31]
Mayim Bialik
If this man has not said, all right, all right, all right. Every day for the last month. I don't even know what that is. Do it. You do it. Cute.
- [51:38]
Jonathan Cohen
No, I won't do it. No.
- [51:39]
Mayim Bialik
How do you say it? All right, all right, all right. What do you do?
- [51:41]
Jonathan Cohen
That is not how it's done.
- [51:43]
Mayim Bialik
All right, all right, all right.
- [51:44]
Jonathan Cohen
You clearly haven't seen the movie.
- [51:46]
Mayim Bialik
I have. Is that for. Is that the link letter film?
- [51:50]
Jonathan Cohen
All right, all right, all right.
- [51:51]
Mayim Bialik
That is cannot be how he says it.
- [51:53]
Jonathan Cohen
No, it's probably not it either. But that's a classic movie. It's.
- [51:57]
Mayim Bialik
He seems very famous. He has a very famous. See, movie stars are very different than TV stars. I once saw Emma Stone on an airplane. She just has, like, an air about her. It's like the movie stars are different. He's just like. He's different.
- [52:12]
Jonathan Cohen
TV actors bring their lunch pails to work. Okay, pretend you're a movie star for a minute.
- [52:18]
Matthew McConaughey
How does it.
- [52:19]
Mayim Bialik
I don't.
- [52:19]
Jonathan Cohen
How does it.
- [52:20]
Mayim Bialik
He's sit.
- [52:21]
Jonathan Cohen
He's got very good posture.
- [52:23]
Mayim Bialik
Very good posture. He's very confident. Like, I'm sure that he's got his moments. And I read his book. Like, he sure has his moments. But, like, I don't think he cries like I do.
- [52:33]
Jonathan Cohen
No one cries like you do.
- [52:35]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, I don't mean to, like, fangirl out and be, like, starstruck, because the fact is. Look, let's just be honest. He's a person just like you're a person. Just like, you know, the person experiencing homelessness when I drive off the freeway. Like, we're all just people. We're all just here. But he's very different. Because he's different.
- [52:54]
Jonathan Cohen
Well, he is. He's composed. He hasn't. He has an. A very collected energy about him.
- [52:59]
Mayim Bialik
There's something very handsome about him besides just like, oh, he has classically attractive features. Like, you know, I hope people weren't upset or triggered by his. His and my conversation about masculinity, because, you know, that that is obviously a gendered term, and it's not just reserved for men. There are women who have masculine. Like, it's totally good and all good, but he really is, like, a very. You know, he's America.
- [53:20]
Jonathan Cohen
I don't know that this is a fact, but he's one of the most photographed people with his shirt off. That's not true in tabloids. Yeah, there's like a. There's a running joke that Matthew McConaughey never has a shirt on in picture. Okay. You don't go on the Internet.
- [53:35]
Mayim Bialik
I don't do things. There's a lot of pictures of him here. He does have his shirt off. I mean, if I had a body like that, I would never put on clothing.
- [53:44]
Jonathan Cohen
No, there's like. If you Google it, there's running jokes on late night.
- [53:47]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, I didn't know.
- [53:48]
Jonathan Cohen
He never. Like, he doesn't own shirts. And there's pictures of him and Woody without their shirts. They're like, totally. He's like the shirtless guy.
- [53:56]
Mayim Bialik
I didn't know that.
- [53:57]
Jonathan Cohen
I mean, there's jokes that he had to, like, put a shirt on to drive his Lincoln. That's when the only time.
- [54:02]
Mayim Bialik
Well, I saw him in Dallas Buyers Club, which is a really, really. A very significant, important film about HIV and a very specific time in history. And he plays this unbelievable character, and he actually talks about in the book. Like, you know, at that time in his career, he was switching over from the movies that everyone knows Matthew McConaughey from to the movies that I know Matthew McConaughey from. And, like, no one thought he should make it, and he lost all this weight to the role. And, like, he's very. I didn't want to, like, talk, act. I mean, I wanted to talk everything with him. But I don't know if method acting is something that he kind of talks about, but he really does talk about, like, being in character. And he has a story of something that he, like, didn't even study the script for this job because he, like, wanted to just, like, be in it. And then he gets to set and finds out he's supposed to speak Spanish and, like, give a whole monologue in Spanish, and he's like, oh, my God. Like, so much for, like, trying to be in the moment. But anyway, that's the. Like, the shirtless image I have of him is from Dallas Buyers Club when he. I mean, I think he was, like, 130 pounds or something. Like, really, really, very, very thin. No, he. We didn't get to ask him about hair.
- [55:08]
Jonathan Cohen
There's a great anecdote in the book. Tell us about it.
- [55:12]
Mayim Bialik
He was gonna shave his head.
- [55:13]
Jonathan Cohen
He has amazing hair.
- [55:15]
Mayim Bialik
He has beautiful hair. He was. He was starting to lose it, and so he just. No one believes that he. That's what he said. And he decided to shave it.
- [55:24]
Jonathan Cohen
And it's also a wives tale.
- [55:26]
Mayim Bialik
And what was it? How did he phrase it? There's an aboriginal handshake. And the. The man said, if two people believe. What is it? If two people believe something, like, it becomes true. Like, if they believe it deeply enough. And then his hair was fine.
- [55:42]
Jonathan Cohen
So you're telling me that this could have been prevented?
- [55:44]
Mayim Bialik
We don't believe it enough that it's gonna be okay. Oh, maybe it'll come back.
- [55:48]
Jonathan Cohen
What do we believe together enough that we're gonna make it true, that we're
- [55:52]
Mayim Bialik
gonna last as a couple? But even that is, like, no, there's a lot about his hair. In addition, you know, he, like, almost lost a job because of it. And then, like, the Director saw him in person, was like, like, oh, just kidding. You're still stunning. Everything's fine. I do very highly recommend this book because he really. It's. It's not a memoir like you think. And he really does cover. We didn't get into a tremendous amount of, like, mental health per se, but, I mean, all of our lives are a journey of mental health or of challenges, you know, and he has this running line of persistence and spontaneity and courage. And, like, I don't know if he's fearless, but he lives as if he is fearless. I know that not everyone has the resources to be like, I had this dream about, you know, the Amazon, and I'm gonna go there. But, you know, he's done some beautiful things. And it's funny, when we asked him about his Just Keep Living foundation, when he opened his mouth, I was like, are we gonna get, like, a little soundbite here? Which is fine. But then when he started talking, I was like, this is a man who really is articulating solutions to some really prominent challenges, you know, at schools all over this country. And I really. I do. I admire that. I don't. It's not lips. I don't feel like it's lip service. Like, it's really, really lovely. The things he was saying. He wasn't just like, we're giving money to support after school programs. He was giving real examples. Like, I was very, very impressed by him. And I know people are gonna be like, he's just a rich celebrity. But, no, I was really impressed by him. I made him blush. Can we talk about the.
- [57:24]
Jonathan Cohen
That we can. He's clearly guided by a deep intuition. And we talked a little bit about spirituality and being guided by sort of what he called a direct line and a direct line of truth. I think that's, like, clearly.
- [57:38]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, it's a very religious concept. And I didn't want to poke him about it because I don't think that this is the case, because we're not
- [57:43]
Jonathan Cohen
friends like that yet.
- [57:44]
Mayim Bialik
Well, no, but I.
- [57:45]
Jonathan Cohen
The next time he comes. No, but I didn't book two hours.
- [57:49]
Mayim Bialik
I didn't want to poke that. Not now. He said, let's do it again. I think he meant it. But what I do think is interesting is that, like, I've been taught that dreams are symbolic,
- [58:00]
Jonathan Cohen
not him.
- [58:01]
Mayim Bialik
Let's pick a dream. That I could have woken up and been like, must pursue this. Like, are there donkeys with wings? Let me go find them.
- [58:11]
Jonathan Cohen
Do you have a recurring donkeys with wings dream?
- [58:13]
Mayim Bialik
I do.
- [58:15]
Jonathan Cohen
This is the first time hearing about this.
- [58:17]
Mayim Bialik
Name me a dream of yours that you think maybe we shouldn't take literally.
- [58:21]
Jonathan Cohen
I mean, I fly sometimes. I have a recurring flying dream. Never flown.
- [58:25]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, do you have a better example, bro?
- [58:28]
Jonathan Cohen
I mean, I had a recurring dream that actually came true, but I didn't go pursue it.
- [58:32]
Mayim Bialik
Whoa.
- [58:33]
Jonathan Cohen
I had a recurring dream about the town of Ashland that I wrote to you about, and I told you about that. I showed up, and it was, like, this extremely distinct place. And the geography is what made it so specific. There was, like, a river next to a downtown area, and. And I ended up in this town in 2018.
- [58:56]
Mayim Bialik
In real life.
- [58:56]
Jonathan Cohen
In real life, I walked downtown for the first time, and I was just struck. I was hit so hard by this recurring dream that I had had. I had it but, like, once a week for several years.
- [59:06]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, that's weird, babe. And then you're telling a weird story. I mean, weird in a good way, but I feel like it's a little bit of a different story.
- [59:12]
Jonathan Cohen
It's a weird story I was looking for.
- [59:14]
Mayim Bialik
Like, I once dreamt that I joined the circus, but I didn't do it. Instead, Jonathan's like, I speak to the universe, and it sends me messages of where I should live. Like, that's a different story.
- [59:24]
Jonathan Cohen
Well, this was not necessarily permanent living. I was on this road trip in the dream, and I was arguing with my then partner, and we got to this town, we pulled over on, like, on this road trip.
- [59:37]
Mayim Bialik
Is this real life or the dream?
- [59:38]
Jonathan Cohen
This is the dream. And then we park there, and I just turned to her, and I'm like, can we rest here a little while? And, like, there was so much tension in the car.
- [59:46]
Mayim Bialik
From cut to. We live here now.
- [59:48]
Jonathan Cohen
We do, but I don't think we're living there forever. And it. Okay, I had forgotten about that dream.
- [59:55]
Mayim Bialik
Just took a turn.
- [59:56]
Jonathan Cohen
I totally forgotten about that dream until I then walked in that downtown. And I hadn't had it for, like, five years, that dream. But I was, like, totally struck. I'm like, holy shoot. This is the location of the dream.
- [60:09]
Mayim Bialik
Also, don't curse.
- [60:10]
Jonathan Cohen
That I had been having for years and years prior to that. And it, like, totally freaked me out. Do you think that it's gonna require another wet dream for Matthew McConaughey to run for office? Like, he's gonna have a wet dream. He's like, yep, I'm supposed to be governor of Texas.
- [60:24]
Mayim Bialik
No, but I do think, in all seriousness, I mean, again, I'm not saying He's a prophet. But this notion of.
- [60:30]
Jonathan Cohen
But he has the hair for it.
- [60:32]
Mayim Bialik
No, but this notion of, you know, what if we received information that we get with that kind of seriousness, meaning to say, what's the message here? Like, what am I supposed to do? And he. I also really respect, you know, public people, famous people, you know, who are not afraid to say, like, I have a relationship with God and like, this happened. And I believe that was like, that. I really. I think that's really cool.
- [60:57]
Jonathan Cohen
He also said he put himself in the place to receive that information. And so if we want to go there, I would posit that everyone has the ability to receive direct information of truth, whatever we understand truth to be.
- [61:11]
Mayim Bialik
We don't know how to listen or receive like people used to.
- [61:14]
Jonathan Cohen
So so many of us are not putting ourselves in the position, not making space in our lives.
- [61:18]
Mayim Bialik
And it's like, also, it's, you know, you call it serendipity or, like, coincidence, but, you know, that's just the lens that we see it with.
- [61:26]
Jonathan Cohen
If people want to tell us about their serendipity moments or moments of moments
- [61:31]
Mayim Bialik
of great intuition, we would love to hear that. I think that's fascinating.
- [61:33]
Jonathan Cohen
Tag us on Instagra @BialikBreakdown. That's our Instagram page.
- [61:38]
Mayim Bialik
This was a very exciting episode.
- [61:40]
Jonathan Cohen
Before we go, Mayim, talk to us a little bit about gratitude.
- [61:43]
Mayim Bialik
I have an attitude of gratitude.
- [61:46]
Jonathan Cohen
He talked about attitude of gratitude. He talked about. Well, before he talked about attitude of gratitude, he talked about Quick, Lethal and Over, which might be the episode title.
- [61:55]
Mayim Bialik
It's also the title of our memoir.
- [61:58]
Jonathan Cohen
But tell us why gratitude is helpful. We've talked a little bit about this in an Ask my many things, but. But, you know, this is less of an Ask Mayim anything and more of a little why gratitude is so good for us.
- [62:10]
Mayim Bialik
One of my favorite things that we do here at mayimbiox Breakdown is to break down the science behind things that people don't often know have science that relate to mental health, and gratitude is one of them. And, you know, I'm kind of allergic to positivity, meaning, like, I'm not.
- [62:24]
Jonathan Cohen
I hate when I'm positive.
- [62:25]
Mayim Bialik
No, I'm just like. I wouldn't say I'm like an optimistic, positive person. Like, that's just not. It's not my vibe.
- [62:30]
Jonathan Cohen
I was kidding, by the way. You like positive.
- [62:32]
Mayim Bialik
No, I. I do, but I much more resonate with gratitude and an attitude of gratitude, which, because there can be
- [62:39]
Jonathan Cohen
false positivity, which is a whole other Problem.
- [62:41]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah. And like, I'm. I'm very. I'm just. It's me. It's not you. You know, I'm very sensitive to. To false positivity or to kind of spiritual bias.
- [62:49]
Matthew McConaughey
No.
- [62:49]
Mayim Bialik
Or like, like super. Sometimes it can feel superficial to me or it can feel inauthentic. But there have been some really interesting studies, scientific studies about gratitude and some of the things, you know, you can kind of dismiss if you'd like to. I mean, the. The studies report there was a study of, I think 300 college students that was done. And, you know, they found that, like, depression markers decreased when people were asked to like, write gratitude letters every day and things like that. But enter functional MRI machine. That's right. FMRI is our friend. And there have been gratitude studies that have been done when people are in an MRI scanner. And I'm happy to discuss. Describe what an MRI scanner does another day. My undergraduate thesis, we used functional mri. It's showing blood flow and brain activity. And there are things that we can infer. Infer from the patterns that we see and the changes in blood flow and therefore oxygen delivery to different parts of the brain. And gratitude seems to activate the medial prefrontal cortex, which is generally associated with learning and decision making. So the idea is that when we experience gratitude, when we express gratitude, our brain is rewiring in some ways. And I'm not saying that as like the brain can rewire. I'm literally talking about when you express and have access to things that you can be grateful for. Even if fill in the blank, it allows your brain to start learning and accepting and being open in a new way. And that's one of the things that 12 step programs in particular are big on, is gratitude lists. You know, when you wake up, can you be grateful about three things without feeling guilty about it, without feeling like, oh, but also, this is going on and I shouldn't be. You have a right to experience gratitude. And it is. It's good for your brain.
- [64:39]
Jonathan Cohen
And it can be little things too. That's what people don't understand. They're like, totally. Oh, my life has to be perfect in order to.
- [64:44]
Mayim Bialik
You know what? My list sometimes sounds like cats.
- [64:47]
Jonathan Cohen
Just that they exist, just cats.
- [64:50]
Mayim Bialik
Patience. I often just have gratitude for patience. The gift of pausing is something all I can, like, get my head around in the morning. I'm just grateful that I've learned that I don't have to instantly react to everything. I'm grateful for the gift of recovery, that I can experience things bigger than Myself. But those notions of gratitude, it does. It puts a different lens on your day. So, yeah, the.
- [65:13]
Jonathan Cohen
The last thing about this interview that
- [65:15]
Mayim Bialik
we just did, because everybody's like, nobody wants to listen to you. We just heard Matthew McConaughey, is that
- [65:20]
Jonathan Cohen
Matthew talks about not raising his voice, and that I connected to that by pausing. I don't know why I'm getting that face.
- [65:30]
Mayim Bialik
Because you shouted at me the other day.
- [65:32]
Matthew McConaughey
There's no evidence of that.
- [65:35]
Jonathan Cohen
If he gets to a point of needing to raise his voice, what he says is that he hasn't dealt with other things that are contributing to him boiling over, and that the thing he's yelling at Hundo is not actually upsetting most of the time.
- [65:49]
Mayim Bialik
The best example is with my children, and I was a yeller. I was a yeller in some of their early years, and I have tremendous, tremendous sadness and regret about it. But I took a parenting class. It's called Quality Parenting. And it's kind of a progressive. You know, a lot of people in the holistic community. Well, we took it together, a group of girlfriends of mine. And what it said is that anytime you lose your patience, not just with a child, but with any human being, it is always because you do not have the patience to deal with whatever it is that's in front of you. Meaning people can try and get their needs met, children, especially, in ways that are annoying, that are frustrating. But I can have my child behave and do the same exact thing on a good day and a bad day. And the only thing that's different is me.
- [66:36]
Jonathan Cohen
That's the baseline of overall stress that has either accumulated or that we haven't managed in other ways. And so that's an amazing sign.
- [66:44]
Mayim Bialik
What have I not dealt with? It's coming out now.
- [66:47]
Jonathan Cohen
And so much of what we talk about is being aware enough to deal with the stuff that is in front of you, that you're holding onto, that you're experiencing and having the tools to do so. Mayim. I'm very grateful for learning new tools every day that we do this podcast.
- [67:01]
Mayim Bialik
Well, thank you.
- [67:02]
Jonathan Cohen
But all the guests that we get to speak to, people that I would never otherwise get to talk to.
- [67:06]
Mayim Bialik
Jonathan, I'm grateful that we get to do this podcast together. It's really lovely.
- [67:09]
Jonathan Cohen
I'm also grateful for all the listeners that really seem to appreciate it. They. They message us, most of them. We get a couple of.
- [67:16]
Mayim Bialik
I'm grateful for our awesome team, from our grateful breakdown to the one that we hope you never have, except the gratitude part. We hope you have that? We'll see you next.
- [67:24]
Matthew McConaughey
It's Maya Bialix. Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. Non fiction one. And now she's going to break down to break down. She's going to break it down.