Re-Air: Melissa Joan Hart: Teaching Mayim About Clam Breeding & Christmas!

Summary

Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown: Re-Air — Melissa Joan Hart: Teaching Mayim About Clam Breeding & Christmas!

Date: December 26, 2025
Host: Mayim Bialik
Guest: Melissa Joan Hart

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Episode Overview

This holiday re-broadcast offers a lively, wide-ranging conversation between Mayim Bialik and Melissa Joan Hart—a beloved TV star known for Clarissa Explains It All, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, and a slew of Christmas movies. Riffing on topics from growing up as child actors to the oddities of clam breeding, the “Queen of Christmas” opens up about her family, career, directing, her love/hate relationship with Christmas, and even shares some religious traditions. The episode is packed with humor, warmth, behind-the-scenes stories, and surprising tidbits—delivered with candor and camaraderie.

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Main Topics & Key Discussion Points

1. Shared Experiences as Female TV Leads in the '90s

Timestamp: 03:20–05:30

• Mayim and Melissa bond over being the rare young female leads in major TV shows during the early '90s.
• Melissa reveals she nearly played "Six" on Blossom (Mayim’s show), going through multiple auditions for both that and Clarissa at the same time.
  • "I remember praying at night... Let the right thing happen that will, you know..." – Melissa (04:42)
• They reflect on the legacy of centering stories on young women at a pivotal cultural moment.

2. Melissa’s Quirky Long Island Upbringing & Clam Breeding

Timestamp: 05:45–13:00

• Melissa drops the surprise that her dad was a clam breeder, launching Mayim into delighted curiosity about the process.
  • "My dad was a clam, like, a clam breeder." – Melissa (06:41)
  • "Do they need help?... They don't know how to do it." – Mayim joking (06:54)
• Melissa explains her family's roots: her dad and now her sister became accidental marine biologists running a clam and later oyster business.
  • "They're like...accidental marine biologists because they got into this business." – Melissa (07:16)
• The conversation hits humorous highlights about never eating clams (Mayim) and what family meals were like in a clam-breeding household.

3. Becoming a Child Actor & Early Career Hustle

Timestamp: 11:03–16:00

• The inciting incident: Melissa wanted her name said on Romper Room, leading her mom to seek out TV auditions.
  • "I told my mom, like, I'm gonna need to get on tv." – Melissa (11:34)
• Melissa booked her very first audition, after her mom discovered that commercials could actually start paying for all those trips to NYC.

4. Landing Clarissa Explains It All (& a Blossom Audition Connection)

Timestamp: 16:13–21:30

• Deep dives into the audition process, including lucky outfits and tricky interview questions (e.g., accidentally bad-mouthing New Kids on the Block).
  • "I wore like a pink T-shirt and bright blue overalls, and I guess the strap kept falling at the same point each time..." – Melissa (16:37)
  • "They didn't want a blonde to play Clarissa... smart girls can't be blonde..." – Melissa (18:11)
• The role was a major turning point, and Clarissa’s success paralleled the launch of cable TV and Nickelodeon’s move into original scripted series.
• Reflection on the challenge and privilege of being a pop culture "touch point" for girls.

5. Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Branding, and Family Influence

Timestamp: 22:57–25:10

• Transition from Clarissa to Sabrina: Melissa’s mother was her manager and a branding pioneer ("the original momager").
  • "She knew branding before branding." – Melissa (23:48)
• Sabrina began as a TV movie via Archie Comics and her mother’s hustle, eventually spinning off to a series sold to multiple networks.
  • The show ran seven seasons; Melissa reflects on finally being a “grown-up” with her first car and house, and the relief of working without needing to study for school on the side.

6. Directing: From Sabrina to Young Sheldon

Timestamp: 28:38–31:46

• Melissa shares her development as a director (starting on Sabrina) and her approach to multi-cam vs. single-cam sitcoms.
• Highlights the importance of storytelling (“tell the story — that’s the core of directing”) and building trust with cast and crew.
  • "The fundamental... of directing is: tell the story." – Melissa (29:38)
• Mentions mentorship from Garry Marshall and her gratifying experience directing on high-profile sitcoms (Goldbergs, Young Sheldon).

7. The Queen of Christmas: Lifetime Movies, Christmas Con, & Holiday Culture

Timestamp: 33:23–41:03

• Melissa’s reign as a Christmas movie queen—she reflects on the appeal and formula of the genre, the joy and limits of its predictability, and the surprising emotional comfort these movies offer.
  • "At first I was like, this is where careers go to die. I don't want to be a part of it. And then it started...it's very lucrative. It's just fun. It's happy." – Melissa (35:30)
• Info about the “Christmas Con” convention, a phenomenon for superfans and holiday movie stars—complete with matching sweaters and themed booths.
  • "Santa comes and all the, like, stars of all the different Christmas movies." – Melissa (36:24)
• Honest confession that the excess of holiday commercialism can be overwhelming, even for the Queen of Christmas.

8. Melissa’s Own Christmas: Faith, Rituals, and Family Traditions

Timestamp: 41:06–43:00

• How Melissa celebrates — organization is key! Advance decorating, matching towels, every detail planned (including whether to use “travel ornaments” or homemade ones).
• Talks about her religious upbringing, transition from Catholic to Presbyterian, and observance of Advent.
  • "Advent is every Sunday, four weeks leading up to Christmas...each candle is a different representation." – Melissa (41:50)
• Shares the joke of Mayim being a fascinated outsider to Christmas culture.

9. Melissa & Joey and Joey Lawrence

Timestamp: 43:22–47:00

• Recounts decades of knowing Joey, starting as audition kids; how Melissa & Joey was born out of palpable TV chemistry in a rom-com project.
  • "So Joey and I did this movie, Fake Fiance, and from that, we just—the chemistry between us..." – Melissa (45:22)
• On choosing to develop a show where the lead woman is not relegated to the “wife” straight role, but gets to be as weird and flawed as she wants—a callback to Lucy and sitcom classics.

10. Growing Up Under Pressure: Staying Grounded

Timestamp: 47:39–52:32

• Mayim asks about the “clean” sets of their shows and how Melissa avoided many of the pitfalls of child stardom.
• Melissa credits a sense of responsibility from being the oldest of eight, lead star, and a “family” of crew who protected her.
  • "There was this sense of responsibility...showing up on time...so I didn’t want to be that person." – Melissa (48:54)
• She shares about some boundary-pushing in her early 20s but always with mindfulness and limits, maintaining stability.

11. Family, Motherhood, and Evolving Partnerships

Timestamp: 54:23–56:33

• On working closely with her mother (her manager and producing partner), growing pains, and how their relationship matured.
  • "Who do you trust more than your mom?" – Melissa (54:53)
• On her father’s new venture—breeding oysters and algae farming for ocean clean-up.

12. Podcasting and Life in Nashville

Timestamp: 56:51–58:34

• Melissa explains why she started her podcast “What Women Binge”, which features fun pop culture chats rather than heavy topics.
• She sought a work-life balance that let her stay local and connect with other familiar faces over shared interests.

13. Rapid Fire Questions

Timestamp: 58:34–59:47

• Fun quick Q&A segment, memorable answers:
  • What was your mom right about? — “Don’t wear too much mascara.” (58:42)
  • What’s your mantra? — “You only regret the things you don’t do.” (59:00)
  • Who are you most competitive with? — “Myself, mainly. But growing up, probably Sarah Michelle Geller.” (59:25)
  • Best intuition moment? — “When I realized I don’t need to take anyone else’s advice as a mom.” (59:13)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On family oddities:
  “So your dad was breeding clams. Your mother just bred humans.” — Mayim (10:44)
• On holiday movies:
  “It’s become a genre of a story...it’s a happy place to go to in a season.” — Melissa (35:06, 38:52)
• On feeling the weight of being a lead:
  "There was this sense of responsibility...that was infused in me at a young age." – Melissa (48:54)
• On what keeps her grounded:
  "I'm the oldest of eight kids, and I feel responsible. I have a very serious sense of responsibility." – Melissa (49:09)
• On directing:
  "The fundamental... of directing is: tell the story." – Melissa (29:38)
• On mother-daughter working relationship:
  “Who do you trust more than your mom?” – Melissa (54:53)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Mayim & Melissa: parallel careers as female TV leads | 03:20–05:30 | | Long Island childhood, clam breeding explained | 05:45–13:00 | | How Melissa became a child actor | 11:03–16:00 | | Clarissa & Blossom auditions | 16:13–21:30 | | From Clarissa to Sabrina: branding, family influence | 22:57–25:10 | | Directing: multifaceted, lessons learned | 28:38–31:46 | | Holiday movies and Christmas Con | 33:23–41:03 | | Holiday traditions, Advent, Catholic/Presbyterian shifts | 41:06–43:00 | | Melissa & Joey backstory, sitcom dynamics | 43:22–47:00 | | Staying grounded, avoiding child star pitfalls | 47:39–52:32 | | Family relationships, dad’s algae farm | 54:23–56:33 | | “What Women Binge” podcast, pop-culture fun | 56:51–58:34 | | Rapid fire & closing fun | 58:34–end |

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

The episode is a blend of nostalgia, warmth, and playful banter. Melissa Joan Hart emerges as grounded, self-aware, and grateful for her unusual path, with deep familial bonds and a healthy perspective on fame and responsibility. The Christmas queen’s confessions offer a backstage pass to holiday movie culture, while even odd tangents—like a deep-dive into mollusk reproduction—are handled with authentic curiosity and humor.

Ideal Listening For:
Fans of '90s TV, pop culture enthusiasts, those curious about child stardom, lovers of holiday movies, and anyone who enjoys candid, insightful, and funny conversations about life inside and outside Hollywood.

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For full context, listen to the episode or check out video clips on Mayim Bialik’s YouTube channel.

Transcript

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Foreign.

[Mayim Bialik]

Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

[Mayim Bialik]

And welcome to our breakdown. Well, the weather outside is frightful. That's just one of the Christmas songs I like to sing at this time of year. Happy holiday season, everyone. We're revisiting today a really fun episode with the queen of Christmas herself. Who? Melissa Joan Hart. This is from a couple years ago. You know Melissa from obviously Sabrina the teenage witch Clarissa explains it all. And basically most Christmas movies that have come out in the last 20 years before.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Mime continues to tell you about this episode, which is phenomenal. And you know, I wasn't in it actually when it first recorded. So I'm here with you all revisiting it. I'll tell you a little bit of story about Mime. There's a local Christmas party that we went to last year and we're going to go again this year. And Mime's favorite activity during a Christmas party is leaving the Christmas party, especially when the Christmas carol start. She is such a good caroler and she's such a good singer, but there's something about collective singing and dancing that maybe freaks her out a little bit.

[Mayim Bialik]

I think this is a misrepresentation. There's actually a lot that is really fun and joyful, even if you don't celebrate Christmas, which I don't. But in this episode we actually talk about kind of Christmas culture, so we thought it was a perfect episode to let you hear. So she also talks about Christmas Con. There's a conference, an annual conference all about Christmas. Jonathan, I want you to surprise me and take me one year.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We should go. Can we dress up?

[Mayim Bialik]

Of course. Melissa also talks about how she got her start on the iconic shows that she was on. But she talks about her Blossom audition. What? What did she audition for? You're going to want to find out. We also bond over starring in female character driven shows and that was really, really fun to get to talk to her about. And she also has so much interaction with Joey Lawrence in her life, so we talk about that as well.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Friendly reminder. Check out Mayim Bialix Breakdown on Substack where we explore the intersection of science and spirituality. And we get really into a lot of details that we don't get to dive into on the podcast. It's a growing breaker community. Gift it to a friend this holiday season we have a special going on. Check out Mayim Bialix Breakdown on Substack.

[Mayim Bialik]

Giddy up jingle horse kick up your feet. Happy holidays, everyone. Thanks for spending 2025 with us. It's been a fantastic year as we get to know so many more of you. We'll see you in 2026. We're going to take the last week of the year off, but we promise we have so much exciting content in store for all of you that you don't want to miss. We hope you enjoy taking a listen back at our episode with Melissa Joan Hart. Merry Christmas, happy holidays, and Happy New Year to our entire Mayambiologics Breakdown family. Break it down. Melissa, welcome to the podcast.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Thank you. What a great intro. Thank you.

[Mayim Bialik]

You know, I don't usually do. I don't usually do intros in front of the person, largely because I hate when people talk about me in front of me. But since Jonathan isn't here and it's just. Just you and me, I felt like I'm gonna go for it.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Oh, I loved it. I loved it.

[Mayim Bialik]

Thank you so much for being here.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I just can't believe we haven't met. We have so much in common.

[Mayim Bialik]

That's what I was gonna say. We. We really. I mean, we're, I think a year difference in age, but our lives have, like, kind of been, you know, in parallel aspects of, you know, many iterations of television existence and then having a life beyond what we were known for on television. What years was Clarissa Explains It All.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Clarissa was about, I think it was like 89 to 93, right?

[Mayim Bialik]

So I think that's what I remember is that you were, you know, at that age. I was like, she's younger than me, even though it was like a year. But, you know, for us with Blossom, we started, you know, a year or so after, and then we didn't really gain steam, you know, until our, like, second season, second, third season. So. So, you know, what I knew of you is that you existed like I did on television as a girl and, you know, really not since kind of like Gidget, you know, did we really have shows that were, like, truly, truly about, like, really about a girl.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Did you know that I auditioned for six at the same time as I was auditioning for Clarissa?

[Mayim Bialik]

I did not know that.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I think it was up. I think it was between me and Jenna. I think it was, like, that close. I went like three times to three auditions for both.

[Mayim Bialik]

Oh, my gosh.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I remember praying at night and being like, God, let me make or let the right thing happen that will, you know, and it was, like, really interesting. Obviously you had already had the part of Blossom, but I was auditioning for six. That is kind of crazy. Because I do talk fast, and I think I could have had some fun with that part. But, I mean, Jenna was brilliant and she's a good friend.

[Mayim Bialik]

But that is so funny.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

So I'm in my office and I have. I'm like a hoarder. I have, like, memorabilia everywhere. So I have this Nickelodeon thing, and it's something about girls punching through like that. Girls.

[Mayim Bialik]

Oh, my gosh. That is so cool.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Funny. I think it says something about Nickelodeon bunches punches through ratings barrier. Something about one of the first times a girl like Girls will be watched as lead.

[Mayim Bialik]

That is incredible.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And it's the same time like we were doing this. Exactly.

[Mayim Bialik]

That did not exist on NBC, let me tell you. We had a lot of Playboy models to try and break through that ratings barrier. But that's incredible. Okay. But so many amazing things also, like, you got to work with Joey Lawrence. Like, we have so many fun things that we can talk about.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I've been with Joey since I was, like, four years old.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, so. So take us back. Because you are from a place in New York that I've never heard of, which is fine, because there's a. New York's a very large state. People are just like, New York. No, it's actually the tiniest part is that little island that people think of but you are from. Is it upstairs state? It's to the west. It's near Philadelphia. It's. Oh, it's Long Island Island.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Oh, my gosh. Sayville. Yeah. So Long Island. It's like, right in the middle of the island on the south shore. It's like where the ferries go to Fire Island.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, got it.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

We used to drive into the city to audition all the time. That's how I'd actually run into Jenna. I'd run into Joey. And. And so I auditioned a lot in New York, and then when I started Clarissa, my parents got divorced, so I moved to the city when I was about 12 or 13.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, so I need to understand, though, you are a child just like, growing up. And I'm assuming you're adorable because, you know, people are adorable. And was this like, your. Your parents, they were not in the industry?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

No, my dad was a clam. Like, a clam breeder. My mom was.

[Mayim Bialik]

You can't just say that and expect me to let you keep talking.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Is it clam breeder?

[Mayim Bialik]

Do they need help?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

My dad gets. They do.

[Mayim Bialik]

They don't know how to do it.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Impregnate that. Now he. Now he impregnates oysters.

[Mayim Bialik]

No answ happening. What? That's not my Long Island. This is the other kind of people that live on Long Island. Okay. This.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

You would actually be fascinated to talk to. My.

[Mayim Bialik]

Already fascinated.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Well, they're like my. My father and now my sister are like, accidental marine biologists because they got into this business of, like. My father and my uncle owned a boatyard, and they started taking clams and figuring out how to kind of breed them. So they would then put them in the bay and they. They. I don't know if you ever went across the great South Bay to Fire island or something, you'd see a tree, just like a random tree with, like, a bag on top, right? And that means that's where someone's planted their oysters or clams down below, and so they kind of breed them there.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, I'm sorry. We're going to get to all the things that everybody wants to hear about. However, as someone who wanted to be a marine biologist in middle school, I need to talk about this. I've known this at some point because as a neuroscientist, I was trained in biology. How do oysters and clams have sex?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I think it's something about. I mean, you're asking the wrong. There's boys and girls, the rest of my family, but it's something about taking, like, the. I don't know if there's a male oyster, but, like, they spray something into the water. There's my. My sister has this, like, maternity ward, so it's like a tank, and there's certain oysters, and then they'll, like, put something in. Like, it'll look like a handful of sand, and there'll be thousands of baby oysters. So they'll breed them to that level, and then they'll sell them to, like, Blue Point or someone, and may they send it to, like. They probably won't send it to, like, Pei or something, but they'll do it around Long Island, Connecticut.

[Mayim Bialik]

Right.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And then those oysters become, you know, they. They grow in the water that they're claimed after.

[Mayim Bialik]

Did they have pearls?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

No. I don't know. I've never. Not that I know.

[Mayim Bialik]

A certain kind. Okay, so I need to ask another question. This is just your dad. I can't wait till we get to your mom. But did you, like. Was it like, we ate clams every night?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Oh, yeah. My mom won't eat them to this day.

[Mayim Bialik]

Is that why they got divorced? She's like, do not bring another clam in this house.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Partly. I think the clam business wasn't really getting her the fur coat and diamond she wanted, so. Yeah. That makes herself spoiled. She's not. No, no, no.

[Mayim Bialik]

But I. Please, I get it. So you would just, like. You would eat clams? You would like you.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I actually got into.

[Mayim Bialik]

I was raised kosher. You need to know, this is like the farthest thing from things that I know about. I've never eaten one. No. I was raised kosher. And that was like, when I. When my mom stopped being kosher, it wasn't like, let's get what? We couldn't afford a clam. So I've seen them eaten. It is not interesting to me at all. But you. Are there other ways to eat? I just know that they're like steamed and sometimes there's pasta around them.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

So many ways. Clams are one thing I'll eat anyway that they're. They can be baked, they can be like chopped. They can be cooked, they can be raw.

[Mayim Bialik]

People fry them. It's an Italian thing.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah. You put them in your linguine. Yeah. You like everything. Like, you'll have linguini and clam sauce.

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, clam sauce. That's from clams. I don't want to know about how they get that. Okay. So that's what your dog. That's what. That's what your dad did.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yep. And then he segued to a construction company and then to lobsters. He was a whole lobster wholesaler.

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean, where else would you go if not lobsters? I've also never had.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

They were like a dollar a pound. So we would, you know, as opposed to when you buy them in the, you know, restaurant, they're 50 bucks.

[Mayim Bialik]

Like, they're also alive in a tank. And you watch them and it's like a whole thing. I'm a vegan. It's not working. Okay, so that was your. That was your dad's life? Was your. Was your. So your mom was not in the. She was a stay at home mom.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah, well, she was really young. She had me right before her 20th birthday.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And then when she was 22, had my, like every two years, had a kid job. So I'm the oldest of eight siblings. So it's a very big family. Yeah.

[Mayim Bialik]

So your dad was breeding clams. Your mother just bred humans.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Sorry. It is true.

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean that very respectfully.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Okay.

[Mayim Bialik]

So how many of you were there? Are those all from your biological mom and dad?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Five. There's a brother. And then my mom remarried and had two. My dad remarried and had one.

[Mayim Bialik]

All girls. Goodness.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Except for my brother. Yeah.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And Birthday. So happy birthday to my brother.

[Mayim Bialik]

So you. Do you remember liking to perform? Was this just something like, oh, we live near the city, and, like, let's see if she can be in commercials. Because, like, that was a thing that happened.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah, it was really. Do you remember the show Romper Room when we were little?

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean, who doesn't remember Romper Room?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

That was the. That was my inciting incident.

[Mayim Bialik]

Like, I. Romper Room was an inciting incident for many things, but for Melissa Joan Hart, it was to become an actress.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I had to be on that. I had them. I needed them to say my name on that show in the magic mirror at the end, right? And I realized, I put it together that, like, I was 4, and I was like, I need her to say Melissa. She'll never say Melissa. And then I realized, oh, she's saying the names of the kids in the audience, so I have to be in the audience for her to say my name. So I told my mom, like, I'm gonna need to get on tv. She goes, actually, I know someone who just did that. I know someone who got their kid in. Like, they're doing a commercial or something. Maybe I'll call them. So she called and she got me an audition, and then she got me another audition. I mean, I got the audition and the callback, but it was so expensive to take the car into the city or the train into the city and take taxis around and, you know, then try to eat in the city and then get home. It was an hour and a half each way to the city. So by the time she got the call that I booked the job, she goes, I can't afford to bring her anymore. We're done. And they're like, no, no, no, you're going to get paid now. Like, now that she got the job, you'll get paid. And she was like, oh, okay, well, maybe we'll try that again. So I booked my first audition, my third audition, my fifth audition, and then I was just rolling.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

So she became like a. She was probably 24 at the time.

[Mayim Bialik]

I was going to say she was a. She was a kid herself, right?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And she had three kids at that point. So she's, like, dragging us all to the city.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Doing auditions with us and taking us home.

[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

So you, you know, you did a lot of things and I guess the first kind of. I guess the first kind of thing that, that people now know you for, you know, as a sort of long term gig, though, was Clarissa. Do you remember. Do you remember sort of what the process was around that kind of set of auditions and that time of your life?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah, and it was like, literally, I'm simultaneously auditioning for Clarissa and for Blossom. And so I'm like, I'm in the city, like, auditioning. I felt like it went on for weeks, right. Of like, will I get one of these shows? You know? And so with Clarissa, it was. I remember the third audition, I think was the one where I guess I wore the same outfit. I don't know if you did this, like, audition.

[Mayim Bialik]

If they liked it once, they're gonna like it again.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yep, lucky outfit. I booked it once or they liked it so far. We're gonna keep traveling down that road. So I wore like a pink T shirt and like bright blue overalls and I guess the strap kept falling at the same point each time. And he thought it was like, like I was doing like a thing. He thought I was like, you know, that, you know, kind of actor that was like planning when I was going to lift this. Like, it was part of. I, like, I wrote it in my script or something and I was like, no, I think I did the same body movement and it fell, right. Anyway, so I go in for the third audition and I'm meeting with the producer and he asks me, he goes, do you like New Kids on the Block? And I immediately went, oh, I hate them. And then I went, oh, my gosh. He probably. He's in the industry. He knows them. Like, why would I say that? And he goes, oh, okay, who do you like? And I went, they Might Be Giants. And he was like, okay. And I'm like, I blew it. I blew it. I left the audition. I was like, I didn't get it. I didn't get it. My mom goes, we're wasting our time on these auditions all the time. And you know, you know, it's always when you're ready to quit the business that you get something. So we were ready to quit the business and then, and then Clarissa happened.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow. And I just, you know, I wanna, I wanna kind of underscore like, how significant, you know, that was for you as an actress. You know, my experience was like, I was in this movie and like, people were like, oh, you should have your own show. But that's like a very, that's like a strange route. I mean, every route is strange, I think, for the lives that we, that we live. But what I think is so exceptional about your story, it's like, it's really, really like hardcore fantasy of like, you. You know, they could have picked any number of girls, right?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

They didn't want a blonde. They refused to have a blonde play. Clarissa, like, the producer did not want me. He was trying everything he could to not have me because he thought that smart girls can't be blonde. Like, he wanted her to be smart. Non conformity, you know.

[Mayim Bialik]

Ah, the 80s.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And he was like, I don't want a blonde. Like, that's not what I'm looking for here. And I had done a play. I was big into Broadway when I was like, maybe between the ages of like 8 and 12. And I had just done or was doing at the same time as I was auditioning. I was doing a play at night at the Players Theater called Imagining Brad. And I was this small part. I was a monologue at the opening of the play called the Valerie of Now. And I was on stage for 30 minutes by myself, singing, dancing. It's a little girl who just got her period for the first time and doesn't know what to do. And it's just sort of her flailing, like, what do I do? What do I do? And she sort of comes to the realization that she's a woman now in that night. But then you find out the next part of the play, it gets a little dark. But like, the next part of the play is that she's. You find out that she was beaten and abused by her father that night. So she marries a man with no arms and no legs.

[Mayim Bialik]

So it's a very strange.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

It was written by Peter Hedges, it was directed by Joe Mantello, who went on to do Wicked and like, massive, right? Like huge shows. And so it was because of that play, though, that a veterinarian of the producer, I guess the producer went into the vet's office and. And found a dog named Valerie and was like, why did you name the dog Valerie? He's like, I found it in an alleyway after this play last night. This girl was amazing. And he was like, you need to see her for the audition for Clarissa. And that's why. So the veterinarian recommended me. It was, like, very strange.

[Mayim Bialik]

You essentially were, you know, were. Were chosen to be the face of, like, what became, like, a brand and an identity, you know, and like a touch point for. For such. Also, like a really specific part of that genre of television, you know.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Well, and launching of cable. Right. So we were like, Blossom took a little while to get off. We really took a long time to get off the ground because nobody had cable really at this time. I didn't know a lot of people didn't have cable boxes in New York. A few people did. So I started getting recognized on the street earlier in New York than anywhere else. But, you know, it was just having to, like. I don't know. I was. The first time I got recognized. I remember being so embarrassed, like, oh, you watch Nickelodeon, like. Like, unless it's a game show, like, why are you watching Nickelodeon?

[Mayim Bialik]

Right?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

But, yeah, and then the female aspect of it all, too, to be. And the writers on our show went on to do. I mean, like, Paul Lieberstein went on to do the Office, and Alexi Young went on to run Friends, and we had some amazing writers that I think you've worked alongside as well and just really had some powerhouse writing behind it. So it just. It was kind of like, in a way, a lot like Blossom, right, Was like five characters, just like stories. Just stories, you know, no kind of pranks and stuff happening. Just sort of like, really well.

[Mayim Bialik]

And it was also. It was the beginning of kind of like a shift for Nickelodeon because it really hadn't been, you know, known predominantly as a. As a show for, like, or as a network for sort of like, scripted material and narrative like that. So it was very, very unusual. Um, what was your. What was your life like at that time? Were you still going back to school in between filming? Like, did you have a schedule? Like, our schedule was basically like a school year. You know, we filmed kind of like August to April or August to May. Was. Was it the same for Nickelodeon? And how did you handle school at that time?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

We kind of did. We did like, half seasons, sort of the way the streamers do now. We did, like, 13 episodes a season. So we almost did, like, yeah, like a half a season, right. Without the back end order, really. So we would kind of disappear. I would disappear to Orlando for four months at a time, get tutored while I was down there, and then go back to New York and go back to school. So it was tricky. I mean, I was in ninth grade, and I was a really good student. I love learning. I'm still like, a lifelong learner. And so I'm constantly kind of chasing what I missed in high school now because I was this great student. I was gonna learn all These languages in 10th grade and all this stuff. But then the show happened, and I was supposed to finish all my New York sequences in 10th grade. You know, I was, like, so excited to, like, push through my academics. And then I get the show, and I'm being tutored Mondays. I don't know if you guys did the same thing, but, like, Mondays is math. 6 hours in math on Monday, and then you wait till next Monday to do math again and French on Tuesdays and science on Wednesday. So it was like nothing retaining, nothing sticking, just kind of pushing through. And so I ended up changing schools. I was in public school until 9th grade. In 10th grade, I went to professional children's school with, like, Sarah Michelle Geller and Tara Reid and Jerry o' Connell and. And so tried that. That didn't work for me. Then for 11th and 12th, I did what now I guess we would call homeschooling.

[Mayim Bialik]

Right.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Tutoring, basically.

[Mayim Bialik]

Right. And so you kind of went. Then you went to sort of, like, your second exploration of you as, like, the centerpiece, you know, of a television kind of identity with Sabrina, which a lot of people, you know, I think it depends what. What age you are. You know, kind of like what your jam was. But, you know, I. I knew you from. From both. But a lot of people, you know, do have more, you know, kind of knowledge with Sabrina. How did that come about after Clarissa? Because also, like, what's really cool is that, like, they're both you, but there's also, like, a real fun distinctiveness to, you know, as you got older. And, you know, obviously Sabrina had, you know, a very different flavor to it. It was what we would now call high concept.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah. And a hybrid, interestingly enough, Clarissa. So Clarissa ended, and my mom, being my manager for many years, was getting all these offers for me to play really risque. Like, I was auditioning for, like, Lolita and, like, all these things. And my mom was like, I don't think after Nickelodeon that's what you should be doing. She knew branding before branding. Right. She was like, the original Momager. I feel like, in a way, like, she was like, let's. We need to find something family friendly or create something family friendly. And someone handed her a comic book, an Archie comic on a playground with my. At my sibling's school. And they said this would be a great project for Melissa. It's Sabrina the Teenage Witch, one of the Archie comics. So she brought it to Showtime. Actually, she brought it to Viacom because Clarissa was a Viacom. We had a connection there. She brings it to them. She goes, we should make this movie. We make the Showtime movie. She cuts it together. She goes, this should be a series. They go, well, we'll see. We'll see. She cuts it together in, like, a trailer. She sells the series to three different networks. And the next thing you know, I'm 20 years old playing a teenager again.

[Mayim Bialik]

And how long did Sabrina run?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

It was seven seasons.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah.

[Mayim Bialik]

And so that was kind of like. That was really your. Your teen years into young adulthood where essentially you lived on television.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah. I mean, by the time I'm 20 and I moved to LA, I, you know, with the money I made in my first episode, I bought myself a BMW. And then I. By the time I finished my first season, I bought my first house. And I was like, now an adult. And what was great was not having to go to school.

[Mayim Bialik]

School.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

You can. Like, not having to go to school and get to work and, like, and then afterwards go out dancing. And like, I was like, this is awesome. We can go shoot pool after work. I don't have to go home and study my lines for tomorrow. Or, like. Because Sabrina also was the first time Clarissa. I had massive monologues, and I would start memorizing those on Sunday to shoot on Thursday, because, I mean, I have three or four an episode, and they'd be pages long, and I'd have to be direct to camera. There was no cutting. There was no editing, so I had to learn those. And those were a bitch, man. And then school, and then the, you know, senior year with the SATs and college applications and all that stuff. It was just too much. So when I got Sabrina and I was like, I have dialogue scenes where I can bounce off other people. I, like, you can cue me into what my next line is. And I'm only doing two pages at a time. This is awesome. So I loved that life, and I made some of the best friends in my life and had such fun with that. And it is like you said, it's like, that show is international. That show has made people Happy across the board for decades now. And I couldn't be prouder of it because anywhere I go in the world, I hear people say, I learned English from your show. I am a scientist because Beth Broderick played a scientist. Or I got into fashion because of, you know, like, people, or I was in the hospital for a long time, you know, recovering from surgery or something, and they'll say that that was like their, their happy place. And so it's just such a nice thing to hear when we hear that. Right.

[Mayim Bialik]

It's like, sure, that's why we do it. Well, and, and also, there was a brief period kind of between these two shows where you did go to college. Yeah. And I'm kind of curious, like, did it, did it suit you, or were you kind of like, I want to try this, but it's not for me. Like, how did that work out?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Like, the 80 year old that's gonna throw my cap in the. I just saw, like, NYU just had their graduation. I'm like, I need to do that someday. I applied to NYU is the only college I knew about. I knew about one in Florida because I was down there. But I really didn't know much about college. I was the oldest in my family. My parents hadn't gone to college, so I, you know, I saw an NYU shuttle go by one day like a trolley, and I was like, that's where I should go. That looks fun. I want to get on that shuttle. Meanwhile, I've never been on the trolley, but I was like, I should go to nyu. So I applied at nyu. I didn't think my grades were good enough to get in. I tricked my way in by getting into Tisch as an actor and then immediately transferring to the Gallatin program. Individualized study. And I tried for, like, seven years to graduate, but I was doing Sabrina in LA at the same time, and I couldn't quite. I couldn't get the credits. I went on an abroad trip one summer to try to get some credits, and I did an internship and directing and did all these things to try to get the credits, but never quite made it there. So now I've got to start again. And someday.

[Mayim Bialik]

Do you. It's. It's interesting. I mean, you have, you've, you've gone on to do, you know, so many incredible things, including directing. And you, you did an episode of Young Sheldon, which is, you know, so awesome. Do you still feel a desire to, to, like, have that as a benchmark?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

It's something I never finished. And, like, I need to go Finish it right. Like, I need to have that moment. It feels like a rite of passage. I missed. I missed so many. I never had my own prom. I never had a real graduation in high school. They threw me one on the set. But there's so many things I missed. And I'm like, that is not something I'm going to like. It's something I can still do, you know? So it's still out there. I just recently took a course at Belmont. I moved to Nashville, so I took a course at Belmont on screenwriting. And a few years ago, I took a course on Italian. I wanted it like photography. I'm like, I'm gonna figure this out somehow.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm gonna.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

When my kids are out of the house, I have one going to college next year, my first one. So I'm like, once they're out of the house, maybe I'll go back to college. But, yeah, I do want to. I mean. And like you said, I direct a lot now. It wasn't as easy when I started directing in maybe 2000, I started on Sabrina. I did some other shows for Nickelodeon and Disney, and then it was always sort of a PR stunt. But then I started directing the Goldbergs, and then Adam Goldberg recommended me to the. To the boys at Sheldon and the Steves, and they just. They took. I mean, we all had a Nickelodeon history as well, me and the Steves at Young Sheldon. So I was. I directed a bunch of Young Sheldon. So we have that connection as well. Like.

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah. And tell me, you know, I think a lot of people. You know, a lot of people may know that there are obviously directors of shows, but can you talk a little bit about sort of what's the skill set that you drew on or that you draw on to direct that. That kind of format?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah. Oh, well, that's the thing. Right. I jump back and forth between multicam and single cam. And so, like, Goldberg's and Young Sheldon are a single cam, and it's interesting. Well, they have two cameras, but we shoot it like a. You know, it's shot as if it's a single cam. So it's shot like a little movie, is what. It's a little bit more theatrical. Yeah. It has that sort of more cinematic feel to it. Right. And for me. So I was a big fan of Garry Marshall, and I was lucky enough to spend a little time with him where he mentored me a little. Basically just said that the fundamental, like, the basic of directing is tell the story. Just make sure you tell the story right. So I always Go back to that really, you know, that we're here to tell a story. What's going to tell the story the best? Like, you know, angles, character development, all those things. So. And I think with. With Young Sheldon, there is a very specific humor to it. So bringing that kind of. I think the Steves and I have this, especially Molaro, like we have like this shorthand kind of. We sort of see things similarly. He trusted me because I think he saw pretty early on that we had a similar eye, especially for the comedy part of it. So, you know, I think winning his trust was one of the biggest moments of my life. But I think that basically having a rapport with the actors and then working well with the crew and trusting them that this is their show. Like, you're gonna go on the show like that. Especially something like, I think it was third season, you're not gonna find a new corner to film in, right? You're not gonna talk to the actors about their character. Cause they know their character better than you do. So, you know, it's really about bringing in energy. And I like to be efficient. Like, that's how I started directing, was to be efficient on Sabrina. It was such a difficult show as a hybrid. So we would rehearse for two days, film for three, and we shot it like a single cam, but it was three camera film. So it was shot like a multi, but ended up looking like a single. So it was a little tricky. And we'd have these veteran directors come on and go, I don't understand what to do with the cat. What do we do with the special effects? Our special effects guy went off to do Game of Thrones and, you know, like, it was a complicated show. We all learned so much on that show.

[Jonathan Cohen]

This episode is sponsored by Wondering Jews, an open door media brand.

[Mayim Bialik]

If you've ever found yourself feeling like you have more questions than answers, you're in good company. The Jewish people have been like that for thousands of years. Wandering Jews with Michal and Noam is a podcast where two of today's most dynamic Jewish voices, Michal Bittone and Noam Weissman, dig into the biggest questions about life through a Jewish lens. It's the kind of conversation where you'll laugh, learn something new, and probably shout in disagreement at least once. Michal and Noam tackle the tough topics like antisemitism in America, what happens after we die, and the future of religion with guests like Bret Stephens, Michael Rapoport and Sarah Hurwitz. And this past month, in honor of Jewish American heritage, month, they've been celebrating some of the Jewish lives and institutions that have shaped American life, from food to music and comedy. Thoughtful, joyful, and always honest. That's Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam a production of Unpacked. Find it on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube and make sure to hit subscribe. Check out Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam podcast and subscribe at Unpacked Bio nmx

[Melissa Joan Hart]

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[Mayim Bialik]

Ugh.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I love my VRBO for the view. Good reason. Ooh, and the sauna. Sweet. Another good reason. And that it's one of those good saunas with the hot rock thing. Ugh. Love a good hot rock thing. Fancy. That's. That's also a reason. Don't worry about surprises. Book a verbo you'll love with the Love by Guest filter. If you know you verbo.

[Mayim Bialik]

I also want to mention you've been dubbed the Queen of Christmas. You have. You have a production company, which I also think it's adorable that like all your things that you create have the spelling heart like heartbreak films, but like it's spelled like Melissa Joan Hart last

[Melissa Joan Hart]

name for so many things.

[Mayim Bialik]

So it's like a great last name. So you have a production banner, as they call it. What do you like about sort of the Lifetime experience as an actor and as a producer?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

They've been great to me over the last decade. I guess I've been lucky enough to have a Christmas movie on almost every year, whether I directed it or I starred in it. And they have just been so great to me. And what I love about them is while the Christmas movie, you know, it sort of fits in a certain box, right? It's got to have a happy ending. There's very little conflict except in romance. And you know, there's. There's certain. And then there's certain elements that have to. It has to be sprinkled in, you know, snow and nothing but red, right? Like nothing but green and red. So it just was such a fun way to tell stories and try to keep trying to find something new. But what I love about Lifetime is they let me be a little bit funny. They're okay with sometimes not a perfectly happy ending, like not getting the girl and guy together. We've done two or three movies now, and I think we're about to do another one where they don't get together at the End, which. That's a rare thing. So I like just playing around with the format a little bit.

[Mayim Bialik]

I always knew that there were like, these people who liked Christmas movies, but I feel like it's become so much, you know, so much bigger of a phenomenon. And like, there's such a. There's such a great audience for it. I mean, like, people.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

It's become a genre of a story.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Right.

[Mayim Bialik]

It's become a total genre. And like, it's become, you know, it's become like a real kind of identity point, you know, for the holidays, like these kinds of movies.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And it's only getting bigger, strangely, because everyone jump into it.

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah. Do you. Is this something you. You like to continue doing? Like, is this sort of, like, you can imagine this being sort of your. Your annual commitment, like sort of to the Christmas season.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

That's the way it's been. I don't think it's going to continue that way necessarily for me. I think that there'll be those opportunities. But I'd like to do. I'd like to do a little bit more outside the box with it, I think. But it is a really fun, you know, the wonderful thing about them, because it is puzzling, right? Like, I was like, why are these things so popular? At first I was like, this is where careers go to die. I don't want to be a part of it. And then it started. It's very lucrative. It's very, like, it's just fun. It's happy. Like, you go to these Christmas cons. I'm going to one and Kansas City in a few weeks. And it's like, it's just a happy, joyful, everyone miss con. I know they're doing these. They do one in Jersey and now they're doing one in Kansas City in July. Yeah. They serve clam.

[Mayim Bialik]

No, but it's like, hold on. I. Again, like, I'm Jewish. I'm all the things that don't mix with some of the things we're talking about. So what happens at a Christmas. It's like all things Christmas.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

It's like, well, it's mainly celebrities. And then there'll be booths. So they'll be like someone that makes cookies and a hot cocoa thing. And like, you know. But it's women that show up in their sweat, matching sweaters with their mom or their. Has to be. Santa comes and all the, like, stars of all the different Christmas movies, like, Lacey Chabert's always there.

[Mayim Bialik]

This is amazing. I need to go to one of these just to see what happens. That Feels like something we should do.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Did you do 90s con?

[Mayim Bialik]

I did not do 90s con. I knew it was happening, but I'm more interested in Christmas Con.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I know, but I think you need to go to 90s con also.

[Mayim Bialik]

I grew up in Los Angeles. My parents are New Yorkers, but, like, I grew up in L. A, so it never snowed. Like, nothing Christmas, like, ever happened. And also, I'm Jewish, but still there would be these, like, Christmas stores where you would, like, see. And then they started popping up more and more like, I love a Christmas store. I'd never had a tree in my life. I have no desire to have one. But there's. There's a. There's a magical quality to sort of, like, the culture surrounding Christmas. I'm very fascinated by this.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

It becomes a whole thing. Right. It's kind of taken over. I'm kind of. I'm a little bit pissed off at Christmas in general just because it's, like, so excessive. I'm like, the cards and the decorating

[Mayim Bialik]

and angry at Christmas. You're the queen of Christmas. You can't be angry at Christmas.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Don't tell anybody. Just between us, okay?

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean, honestly, when the movie Elf came out, I was like, this is the greatest Christmas movie that will ever be made. I mean, I do love, like, Miracle on 34th Street, 42nd Street, 86th Street. Which street?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

34.

[Mayim Bialik]

34. I mean, I love a Christmas movie, but, like, when Elf came out, I was like. I get like, I'll watch that every year.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I think that the thing about. The thing that people love about those movies is it's predictable. I think that. I think the holidays, everyone pretends it's. You know, it's supposed to be about hope and. And love and family and stuff, but it's. It ends up being so much about commercialism. So I think it's nice for people to just kind of watch something that's predictable. That's. You know, I think we forget a lot about the people that lose, people that don't have someone at the holidays, have a breakup, have a divorce, whatever, you know? And it's tough times sometimes. People can't afford to throw the kind of Christmas they want to have and that kind of thing. So watching these movies, I think, just gives people a happy place to go to in a season.

[Mayim Bialik]

You know, I actually. I've never heard that kind of explanation, and I think that's very astute, because I think also it's not like we're watching it because that's what life Is like, we're watching it because that's not always what life is like. And we know that. Like, it feels like a real acknowledgement of, like, there are ways to show, you know, a different side of happiness. Like, I think that's really.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I think that's like an escapism for a minute.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, I'm asking you one more Christmas question, and then we'll move on, I promise. What.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

What are.

[Mayim Bialik]

What is your life like for Christmas? Like, are you one of these people? Like, I'm just gonna give an example. Are you one of these people who has, like, the green and red, you know, like, Tupperware containers with all, like, the wrapping things? And are your ornaments, like, classified? Like, these are the ones that are white and like, are you do this. Are you this lady?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I do all of that. I. Okay. I'm very organized, first of all.

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean, that's the only way to be. If you like Christmas, you have to

[Melissa Joan Hart]

be organized around it. It's a lot. It's a lot. I'm not kidding. Like, it is a lot. And so you have. If you're not organized with. Are you putting up the travel ornaments this year, like 100 or the kids ornaments of the macaroon crap or the. Like, what are we putting on the tree this year? Because we can't put it all up there. So you have to be organized or it's.

[Mayim Bialik]

So when do you start preparing for Christmas?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Before Thanksgiving nowadays? Yeah.

[Mayim Bialik]

Oh, like.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Oh, you like today? Like this summer? Yeah. There might still be a treat. No, I'm just kidding. No, there's not.

[Mayim Bialik]

But you. But you prepare in advance.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Every railing, every window has a wreath. Every. I mean, my husband goes off. Every railing has a garland. Every, like, every Santa Claus.

[Mayim Bialik]

Toilet paper.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

We don't wipe our butts with Santa Claus. But.

[Mayim Bialik]

But you're.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

But you're thinking, like, every bathroom is decorated. Yes. That's amazing. I have little reindeer in the bathrooms. Yes. Towels. The towels are hanging with all the different. All the towels in the house get changed to Christmas towels.

[Mayim Bialik]

Do you all wear matching Christmas BJ's? Is that your holiday card? No, it's.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

We usually a little more formal. We tried that one year.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wait, we do like, a formal Christmas card?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Like a formal Christmas card because it's like our family photo for the year. And it's like the only way I feel like I can mark how everybody grow. It's the only time my boys are actually old still. Yes.

[Mayim Bialik]

Do they dress up for Christmas?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

They do.

[Mayim Bialik]

What do they wear? Do you make them look like reindeer.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

They just wear, like, red and green collars or something.

[Mayim Bialik]

Well, step it up, Melissa.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Jonah. I'll send you a picture.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'll send them to be reindeer. I want you to have Dasher and Dancer Donner and I don't know their names.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

All of them.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay. This is fascinating.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

No, it's not. It's. It's slightly embarrassing.

[Mayim Bialik]

It is also, just to give it a little bit of reference, you were raised Presbyterian, is that correct?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I was raised Catholic. I was Catholic.

[Mayim Bialik]

Oh, Catholic. Oh, you're Presbyterian now?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah.

[Mayim Bialik]

Those are different things.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Well, yeah, it depends on who you're talking to. As a Catholic, I didn't think so. But now living in the south and going to a Baptist church, people do think Catholic is very.

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah, well, so. But, like, there's. Forgive me. There's Catholic and then there's Protestant. That's what they're called. Yes. That's the other ones.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

The umbrella of Protestant. Yeah, you got it.

[Mayim Bialik]

So, okay, well, now I need to ask. This is Catholic Christmas different than. Than Presbyterian Christmas?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

No, only in the church service. Really?

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay. But you go to church on Christmas like you're that person. It's not just like, let's have a tree. It's like. It's a religious holiday.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And every Advent. Advent is every Sunday, four weeks leading up to Christmas. So every Sunday leading up to it, and you light a candle every night in. In a lot of the ways like you would a menorah. We light a candle every night.

[Mayim Bialik]

What's Advent for?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Advent is to count down the days, and each candle is a different representation of one's the love candle. One's a hope candle, one's a one seen in Catholicism.

[Mayim Bialik]

Anxiety candle. Because that's the only thing that would remind me of a minority.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Maybe the one in the middle.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wait, like Seventh Day Adventists. That's what they're called.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah. So Advent is like. So you get an Advent calendar when you get your chocolates.

[Mayim Bialik]

That's right. They have them for pets. I've seen them in the pet store.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah. So you have an Advent calendar, and you'll open every day. You would open one and get a chocolate out, and that counts down to Christmas. I see.

[Mayim Bialik]

Got it.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Okay.

[Mayim Bialik]

But some people celebrate, like. I knew the song. The twelve Days of Christmas. Is that a thing?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I don't know what that is. I know it's not a thing anymore.

[Mayim Bialik]

Catholics, they celebrate into January sometimes.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Oh, well, that's because of the three kings. The three kings?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

The three kings day is like, January 3rd or so were they Jewish too? Of course they were. Jesus was Jewish. Okay, got it.

[Mayim Bialik]

So the Kings. That's what I meant in terms of two.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah.

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean, I need to learn more things. Okay, sorry. This is just like Melissa Joan Hart teaches Miami about clams and Christmas.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And Christmas.

[Mayim Bialik]

I love it. Okay, let's get back to non Christmas things. Although I do appreciate the education. Tell me a little bit about working with Joey Lawrence, because.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Why don't you tell me about working with Joey Lawrence?

[Mayim Bialik]

I worked with Joey Lawrence. Let's see, I was 14 to 19, and he was whatever, a year younger than me. Um, and then he went on to do the show with his brothers. And then, you know, somewhere in the ether, like, I went to college, I had two kids, I went to grad school. And somewhere in there, the two of you did Melissa and Joey. How did that come about? You had obviously vaguely known each other or did you design this together?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Sort of. So we. We knew each other, like, since we were like six. We've been on a lot, actually. He's on my podcast coming up, and we tell the story about, like, how we met when we were young and stuff. Awesome. But our moms knew each other from the audition, waiting room and stuff. So his youngest brother, Andy is supposedly a product of seeing one of my siblings holding the baby and being like, all right, I need another one. And then she went home and got pregnant with Andy.

[Mayim Bialik]

Oh, my gosh, that's so funny.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Supposedly that's. That's how Andy came to be. But anyway, we ended up in la. I'd done Sabrina. We had never worked together. We'd run into each other numerous times over the years. And then I had to do a. Oh, I'd done a Christmas movie. I'd done a Holiday in Handcuffs with

[Mayim Bialik]

Mario Lopez and Holiday in Handcuffs.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Holiday in Handcuffs. I know. Try go to go to Canada and get a work permit for that one. I don't really want you.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm assuming this has something to do with, like, being arrested.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah, well, I kidnap him and make him pretend to be my. It's. It's actually a little kinky.

[Mayim Bialik]

Melissa Joan Hart.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

That's a little kinky. It's really funny. And it's still one of my favorite projects I've ever worked on because it's so ridiculous. But it kind of launched this TV genre of Christmas movies because it was so popular. I think it's still today. Like, one of the most popular Christmas movies.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Not, you know, Home Alone in the big Christmas theatrical releases. Like, as far as Television goes. But Holiday in Handcuffs was a big success, and it was me and Mario. And Mario had been on Dance with Stars, so I had to go do another movie for them. And it was called My Fake Fiance. I was producing it and my mother and I producing it with Heartbreak Films. We were like, well, who should we get to play the guy? You know, we did so well with Mario. Who else has been on Dancing with Stars that we haven't worked with in a while? And I was like, oh, my God, Joey. We need to have Joey.

[Mayim Bialik]

Wow.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

So Joey and I did this movie, Fake Fiance, and from that, we just. The chemistry between us and that the network loved. We were like, let's create a show around this. Around two people that need each other but don't like each other.

[Mayim Bialik]

Got it.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

And so we did this really funny. Like, Holiday in Handcuffs is probably my favorite movie I've ever been in. And then Melissa and Joey is my favorite TV show. It's like, I picked a child that was my favorite, and it's Melissa and Joey because it's just ridiculously funny and it's stupid funny. And I get to play this very flawed character. I'm like this drunk lush who takes in her sister's kids. She's a politician, too. She has to take in her. Her sister gets arrested for fraud, and she has to take in her sister's teenage kids and raise them. And Joey shows up at my door and ends up being my Manny. And so we hate each other, but we need each other. And a lot of sexual tension and stuff like that. But really, it's just a lot of kind of jabs, quick jabs at each other and just ridiculousness. Like, neither of us know how to be parents, and we're just failing at every turn.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm getting, like, a little bit who's the boss Vibes. I remember people would mention. Well, yeah, because I remembered people would mention that it was, you know, I mean, I find you more compelling as a lead character than the way they wrote Judith Light. But that's just me. It's a different time.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Well, that's the thing. I refused to when we were. Because we did develop the show. I was lucky that I have some friends that have played those characters of the, like, you know, the wife that stands there goes. And I was like, I don't want to be that. And that's what I felt like when you kind of see. You kind of talked about, like, Clarissa and Sabrina and how different they were. Clarissa felt funky, cool, nonconformist, edgy. Right? Like Kick ass, fearless, all that. And then I went and did Sabrina and I just didn't really identify with her. I know a lot of people did. And, you know, no disrespect to Sabrina at all, but I didn't identify with the character that's like, ooh, don't look at me. I want to hide in the corner. Because that wasn't me. I was the loud, talkative, I want a million friends in the room. Let's go to a party, let's do stuff. And Sabrina was a little bit more reserved, a little bit more shy, a little, you know, a little bit like, wants to be the wallflower over the center of attention. And I just didn't really get her necessarily. So when I went to do Melissa and Joey and I'm playing Mel, I could just be ridiculous. It was very Lucy, right? So I got to just kind of be larger than life with that, which was really fun.

[Mayim Bialik]

That is fun. And I do want to ask something, you know, the thing that, like, teen actors are always asked when they grow up, you know, especially because you do describe yourself as like an outgoing person and, you know, liking to be around people in parties. You did not, you know, experience any public or private that you have spoken about. You know, kind of brushes with a lot of the things that plague, you know, humans in general, not just celebrities. But. But I feel like, because you are such kind of like a positive role model, I mean, I consider you, you know, this like, really positive and inspiring, you know, powerful, smart, funny, awesome woman. I wonder if you would speak a little bit, you know, sort of about, you know, those things were around us, you know, even though I think you probably grew up similarly to the way Joey and Jenna and I did. A clean set. You know, we grew up on a very clean set. And Don Rio, our showrunner, kept a very clean and healthy environment. I mean, I'm assuming it was similar for you, especially in the Nickelodeon world, but that stuff was around. And I'm wondering what you credit. Like, I don't know if you're, you know, if you were a person of faith and that kind of kept you on a specific path or if it was, you know, kind of the guidance of your mom, like, what sort of guided you.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

You know, it's interesting. I've tried to give that a lot of thought and, like, dig into it all. And I realized, like, on Clarissa, I actually have a picture. I'll. I'll have to post this at some point. Two pictures. I just found them. They're actual photographs. Right? So I had to, like, take a picture of the picture, the crew on Clarissa. So I was in Orlando by myself. My mom wasn't on set with me and stuff. So I wasn't as much as I was protected as a child and in the theater world and whatnot, with my mom being right there. Now I'm in Orlando, and I'm 13, 14, and I'm kind of on my own. I have guardians and stuff. But the thing is, we were working so hard, I don't think I had time to do anything. The crew would go out Friday nights, and they would take me with them to a bar, and I wasn't allowed to drink. No one would allow me to, no matter how mad I got. I kicked one guy in the shins with my Sean. I had a crush on him. I kicked him in the shins with my combat boots and was like, get me a beer. And he's like, no, I'm not getting you a beer, because I want to keep my job. And I'm so thankful for that now, right? Like, as mad as I got, like, give me a beer. They would be like, no, I'm not. And. And I still have some really, really good friends. Like, my best friends. My son. My oldest son's godparents are the executive producer's assistant and the wardrobe supervisor from Clarissa. So they're still my best friends. And they looked out for me, and they became like a family, and they surrounded me, and they protected me. And also, I think because there was something about me being the lead where I felt like I was responsible the same way. I'm the oldest of eight kids, and I feel responsible. I have a very serious sense of responsibility, and I don't want to disappoint anybody. So I have to memorize those monologues. I have to show up on set or so. And so doesn't get to go home to their child for their, you know, big polo match or whatever. Like, I realized this. This huge weight that's on my shoulders of, like, if you don't show up on time and you don't know your lines and you make everyone wait, that's not only embarrassing, that's. That's. That's, like, super rude. You're just selfish. Like, so I didn't want to be that person. So I think that there was this sense of responsibility that was just infused in me at a young age of doing the right thing and being responsible for myself. And so that carried from Clarissa to Sabrina. And then as Sabrina, I had my mom to protect me. Like, all the Me Too movement stuff. Of course, when that all happened, everyone's asking me, what's my story? My mom was always right there with me. My mom has a few MeToo movement stories. Cause she ended up getting. Having meetings with producers that kind of could have gone in bad directions. But really, my mom's there the whole time. And again, I'm the lead of the show. And as, you know, as the lead of the show, you set a tone. And it was. If I hit my marks and I say my lines and I show up on time, everyone else should too, right? Like, if I start to slip, everyone else could. They could. They might slip. So. And I'm not saying that's necessarily always true with everybody, but I felt that sense of responsibility. Like, I've got to set an example. I've got to be, you know, they're looking at me. I'm the one on camera. I'm the one that's got to say the lines. I'm the one that's got to do the work. Once the cameras are rolling, everyone else is, of course, working behind the scenes. But. So, you know, I just felt that sense of responsibility probably kept me on a really good track. I mean, I'm not saying I didn't have some rebellious moments, because around. I had just, you know, kind of an arrested development as far as a delayed bad behavior, which was probably in my early 20s, 22, 24, where I did, you know, go out and party. But I would party on hiatus weeks. You know, I would dabble with mushrooms when I was on a trip to Utah and walking through the woods, or do ecstasy when I was in Ibiza. Or, you know, like, I was careful about where, when, how am I recovering, how am I getting home? You know, I would go out and have a gin and tonic every night and go dancing and show up tired on set. That was about as irresponsible as I got.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm curious. I mean, I think everyone feels happy that, you know, you experienced some, you know, some, I guess, like, release of that pressure. Because it is a lot of pressure. And I think, like, that's, you know, when I hear about. You talk about that responsibility, like, part of that is, like, in the back of my head, I'm like, oh, is she straight edge? Then I was like, oh, no, she's not straight edge. Like, she, you know, had a thing. Oh, for. For people who might be young or maybe that wasn't a term. Straight edge is a term for someone who, you know, kind of, like, proudly and confidently abstains. You know, like as a, as a movement, you know, there's coming back around.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I think because my son again. Yeah, my son is sort of straight edge in a way. Yeah, like the virginity rocks thing and like that kind of stuff. So I mean it wasn't necessarily. I always thought of straight edge more as drug is an alcohol. I don't know if it have a sex component to it.

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean I think that usually was the other thing that happened. But yeah, we, we thought of it more, you know. Yeah, we thought of it more sort of in terms of drugs and alcohol. I wasn't asking about sex. I mean I can but I wasn't planning on. No, but my, my, my question, sorry, my question was also did that sense of responsibility ever feel like a burden? Like did it ever feel heavy?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I don't think so because I'm also really good at like I said like being social and having that relate having relationships and whether it was, you know, I always had a boyfriend, long term boyfriends. I was very much like a serial monogamist or having parties, just super social. I was still to this day I'm like when are we meeting for book club? When are we going to see the lights at the, you know, at the show around the corner? When are we going to the old movie theater? When are we, you know, like I just love to plan my social time. So I really do live by the Work hard, play hard and I add a third in there. Sleep hard, really good sleeper. I'm very talented sleeping.

[Mayim Bialik]

I think that's just as important, possibly the most important. I wanted to touch on something that's you know, kind of been a through line. You know, you mentioned your mom was so young, you know, when she had you and you know you were, you've kind of, you've worked with her essentially your whole life and you know, I wonder sort of was there a time when you felt like I did don't want that or has it always felt pretty copacetic?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Well, you know I did definitely go through a period especially when Sabrina was ending. There was like a lot of pressure on us to figure out the next thing. You know, if we don't find something right away in this industry, you can really fall off. And so, you know, so if I felt that pressure and wasn't sure that we should be working together because she, I was getting married and she was mad at me for getting married I think because she never hated any of my other boyfriends. But when I was getting married she was losing her basically. She called me her travel buddy. She was losing her travel buddy. And I've been her best friend her whole life. So, like. Or my whole life. So I feel like, you know, when I was starting as. As Sabrina's ending and I'm getting married, there was a little bit of tension between us. And, you know, so, I mean, I think as. As would happen in any mother, daughter relationship, whether you're working together or not. But I came to realize in my, like, late 20s, like, who do you trust more than your mom? If you're gonna have a production partner, who do you trust more than your mom in most cases, like, right. That's gonna look out for you, protect you, have your best interest, tell you the truth, that kind of thing. And you're not really gonna. There's not that fear of kind of a big divide. So, I mean, for me, it worked out really well that we just trust each other. We're honest and open with each other, and we have that relationship. It took a. There was a. There were growing periods in there where it was like, oh, I don't want to say anything to her, or my agents didn't want to say anything, or she didn't want to say something, you know, hurting feelings. But now we realize it's just. We keep it separate, business and family.

[Mayim Bialik]

What's your relationship like with your dad? Is he still back east?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

He is, yeah. Now he's breeding oysters with my sister. And they also grow algae. They have this whole algae farm. Wow, it's. You would. You would love this. It's like, I don't even understand it. I can eat algae.

[Mayim Bialik]

That's something I can eat.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Oh, yeah. Well, that's what they're doing. They're actually. Right now. Yeah, they're petitioning New York to put more algae farms in and, like, start growing algae on a high level to try to clean the oceans and trying to do a whole thing with algae. It's the future. But he is a really, really great guy.

[Mayim Bialik]

It's awesome. And just before I let you go, talk a little bit about your podcast and sort of how that fits into life now. I mean, I know you're obviously a busy person and you're a mom, and it sounds like a very active mom, but this podcast sounds like a lot of fun talk about why you wanted to do it.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

You know, I'm always trying to find something that I can do locally so I don't always have to leave. And I moved to Nashville two and a half years ago, and everybody's always been like, don't you want a podcast on your own podcast? I was like, I don't know what I would say in it. And I always thought it should be hard hitting politics and religion. And I was like. Then I was like, you know what? Without with the last, like, six years of politics, I'm like, I don't want to talk about this stuff anymore. Now I want to do Fluffy, which I never wanted to do before, but what women binge and we'd love to have you on is bringing in people like yourself that are, you know, familiar faces and just asking you what you're into. I was actually. It kind of came about on the set of Young Sheldon because Annie. Oh, not. Yeah, Annie Potts and Jason Alexander were giving me advice on what shows I should be watching because I was, like, in LA by myself for a few weeks. What should I watch? They were like, you have to watch the great. And then you have to watch this show, and they have to watch that show. And so they're giving me advice. And then I was like, this is awesome. Like, I love talking to people about what show should I watch, what book should I read, what. You know, that kind of thing. And during COVID I feel like my friend group started a spreadsheet of, like, hey, if you need a new podcast to listen to, or if you need this or that. So I started an Instagram page, and from that it spawned into a podcast, which is just fun because it's just. It's just fun, light talk. And, you know, we. We just did an episode about, like, the coronation, which we also tied into Queen Charlotte, which also tied into the Great. The new season of the Great. And we had Joey on to talk about kind of our history, but then all the things he's into. And so we're having a lot of fun with it. I really enjoy it.

[Mayim Bialik]

Awesome. We'll do a quick rapid fire.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Yeah, sure.

[Mayim Bialik]

This is Rapid Fire with Melissa Joan Hart. What was your mother right about?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Don't wear too much mascara.

[Mayim Bialik]

What was your father right about? You don't need college location that promotes your best mental health. Oof.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

The mountains Mantra.

[Mayim Bialik]

Do you have a mantra or, like, a saying that you like?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I do. It's. You only regret the things you don't do.

[Mayim Bialik]

Nice. Who's been your best spiritual teacher?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Oh, there's been so many through my life, but probably my mother.

[Mayim Bialik]

Moment of best intuition.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Probably when I. The moment I realized that my. That I'm my children's mother and I don't need to take anyone else's advice.

[Mayim Bialik]

Nice and who are you most competitive with?

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Myself, mainly. But growing up, probably Sarah Michelle Geller.

[Mayim Bialik]

Well, I want to thank you so much for coming to talk to us. And, you know, I feel like there's so many times that I've wanted to ask you all of these things, and I'm really appreciative that we got to do it right here and that I got all my Christmas and clam questions to answer. I know.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

You know what? I feel like you're going to have to call me. You're going to have to come to Nashville for my tacky sweater party. I just want you to come see how Santa pukes in my house.

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean, I. I'm fascinated by the whole thing.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

I might take you up on that like, it's insane. And then you have to wear your tacky sweater. And you can wear a Hanukkah one, right?

[Mayim Bialik]

I don't have a Christmas one, but I do have Hanukkah ones.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Wear a Hanukkah. We've had many Hanukkah ones.

[Mayim Bialik]

Show up.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

Come on over. Or just wear a kiss one or whatever. You know, come on over and see the whole tacky sweater. I want things with bells.

[Mayim Bialik]

I want things to jingle, jingle when I walk so I'll aim for that. It has been so much fun having you on the breakdown, and I'm so

[Melissa Joan Hart]

honored that you asked me. I just feel like we should have so long ago. And this just. It's just so nice to see you.

[Mayim Bialik]

Awesome. And check out what women binge. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We will see you next time.

[Melissa Joan Hart]

It's Maya B. Breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. Fiction. And now she's going to break down, so break down.

[Mayim Bialik]

She's going to break it down.