An Empath’s Guide to Understanding Your Emotions & What It Means for Extra-Sensory Abilities

Summary

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Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown

Episode: An Empath’s Guide to Understanding Your Emotions & What It Means for Extra-Sensory Abilities

Host(s): Mayim Bialik & Jonathan Cohen
Date: July 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the concept of being an empath—what it means, the science and neurology behind empathy, its complex relationship with sensitivity and extra-sensory abilities, the dark side of empathy, and practical strategies for navigating empathic experiences. Mayim and Jonathan dig into how empaths experience emotions, how empathy can both enrich and complicate our lives, and strategies for protecting emotional well-being, all while weaving in science, stories, and a sense of humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is an Empath? (00:00–04:12)

• Defining “Empath”:
  Mayim and Jonathan clarify that being an empath means more than simply being empathic—empaths deeply feel and sometimes even pick up on emotions and experiences outside themselves.
  • Mayim: "Are you the person that everyone confides in? Do you regularly feel burnt out?...You may be an empath." (01:25)
• Prevalence:
  Jonathan shares that approximately 160 million people have this unique characteristic (00:11, 01:10).
• Extra-Sensory Experiences:
  Empaths often report intuition, dream experiences, “reading” energy, or feeling the emotions of others (00:20, 06:02).
• Empath vs. Highly Sensitive Person (HSP):
  Mayim distinguishes HSPs (strong reactivity to stimuli) from empaths (may process emotional input deeply, but not necessarily overwhelmed by sensory input) (04:12–06:02).

2. The Types and Signs of Empaths (07:57–13:10)

• Three Core Types:
  • Cognitive Empathy: Intellectually understanding others' emotions.
    • Mayim: "That’s cognitive empathy...I know what that person's feeling." (07:57)
  • Emotional Empathy: Personally feeling what others are experiencing.
  • Compassionate Empathy: Not only feeling, but wanting to help.
    • “A full empath has developed skills in all three of these categories.” (09:31)
• Additional Types:
  • Animal, psychic, precognitive, indigo, dream, and psychometric empaths (11:19–11:33).
    • Mayim: “A psychometric empath is someone who senses energy with objects or places.” (11:33)
  • Notable Story: The Elizabeth Crone “haunted necklace,” illustrating psychometric empathy (11:39–11:59).

3. Empath Quiz—Recognizing the Signs (15:34–26:07)

• Jonathan walks Mayim through a 20-question quiz for listeners to self-assess empathic tendencies. (Quiz starts at 15:34)
  • Common traits: Over-sensitivity, emotional overwhelm, low stimulus tolerance, physical sensitivities, desire for solitude, emotional eating, isolation, and reactions to others’ emotions.
  • Memorable Mayim moment: "I'm overwhelmed and anxious right now." (15:47)
• Results Framework:
  • 15+ "yes": Full-blown empath
  • 11-15: Strong tendencies
  • 6-10: Moderate tendencies
  • 1-5: Partial empath
• Mayim scores 19/20, reflecting strong empathic qualities (25:54).

4. The Science of Empathy (26:07–34:32)

• Neurological Basis:
  • Empathy is a blend of cognitive and emotional processes in the prefrontal cortex—key for understanding, feeling, and acting on emotional information.
  • Balanced (bilateral) activation in the brain and the prefrontal cortex correlate with greater empathic abilities. (29:00–31:28)
  • Mayim explains: “Prefrontal cortex...is both holding emotional information, allowing you to switch the attention...and then execute and orchestrate an appropriate emotional response.” (29:00)

5. Understanding Low Empathy & Emotional “Shut Down” (34:32–40:20)

• Traits of Low Empaths:
  • Critical, judgmental, detached, lack of awareness of impact on others; sometimes overlaps with autism or certain personality disorders.
  • Mayim: “Low empaths often feel like it wouldn’t happen to them...they often call other people too sensitive.” (33:10–34:32)
• Burnout and Emotional Flooding:
  • High stress can suppress empathy as people prioritize survival over connection (38:57–40:20).
• Empathy Can Be Developed:
  • Guided experiential exercises can help increase cognitive, emotional, and compassionate empathy (40:20–43:52).

6. Practical Tips to Increase or Manage Empathy (40:20–45:24)

• Cognitive Empathy: Practice seeing from another’s perspective, debate both sides of issues, expose yourself to diverse environments.
• Emotional Empathy: Active listening, eye contact, physical touch, asking open-ended questions.
• Compassionate Empathy: Read fiction to experience others’ inner worlds, deliberately focus on others’ stories.
• For “Too Empathic” People:
  • Steps to differentiate between your emotions and others'; use the “feeling wheel” to label nuanced emotional experiences (49:13–52:25).
  • Mayim: "Learn to label what you're feeling so that the feeling does not become your entire identity." (50:05)

7. The Dark Side of Empathy – Dark Empaths (45:24–48:44)

• Dark Empath Definition:
  • People who weaponize cognitive empathy to manipulate, gaslight, or harm others for personal gain.
    • “A dark empath is someone who uses cognitive empathy for personal gain.” (00:36, 45:24)
  • Traits: Emotional detachment, manipulation, extroversion, sarcasm, love-bombing, grandiosity.
    • Mayim: "There's a certain kind of romantic sexual predator...they know your weaknesses and they can just twist it." (46:24)
  • Jonathan: “You think that there’s a high level of understanding there but really what’s happening is manipulation.” (48:23)

8. Empath Burnout & Boundary Strategies (49:13–56:21)

• Why Empaths Burn Out: Blurring their own emotions and others’, absorbing others’ pain, and being everyone’s “shoulder to cry on.”
• Tools for Protection:
  • Label and differentiate feelings as yours, someone else's, or mixed.
  • Visualization techniques: Imagine returning energy that isn’t yours (56:21–59:56).
  • Codependency warning: Helping to make oneself feel better can become unhealthy (60:03).

9. Empathy, Extra-Sensory Abilities, and “Collective Consciousness” (52:25–65:17)

• Empathic Intuition:
  • Some empaths access emotional “databases” outside personal proximity (e.g., sensing something is wrong with someone far away).
    • Jonathan shares a personal story of repeatedly thinking about a friend, leading to a reconnection just before that friend’s mother passed away (52:25).
• Collective Emotional Experience:
  • Tuning into pain is more “natural,” but training oneself to tap into joy/higher frequency experiences is both desirable and possible (64:34).
• Adverse Childhoods & Extra Sensory Ability:
  • Empaths often have histories of trauma or adversity, believed to “prime” systems for intuition (65:17).

10. Applied Examples & Personal Stories (Sports, Animals, Parenting) (63:42–69:23)

• Sports Example:
  Mayim feels the pain of athletes who lose, and Jonathan suggests practicing tuning in to the joy of winners as an exercise in managing empathy (63:42–65:08).
• Parenting & Empathy:
  • Postpartum hormonal changes can increase empathy and sensitivity; some mothers experience the opposite, relating to postpartum depression and loss of connection (66:30).

11. Exercises & Community Feedback (69:23–70:03)

• Listener Engagement:
  • Encouragement to try feeling-labeling techniques, share experiences, and use strategies like cord cutting or visualizations (69:23).
• Further Exploration:
  • Quizzes to determine one’s empath type; more discussion and community support available via Substack (70:03).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Mayim:
  • “Are you the person everyone confides in? …You may be an empath.” (01:25)
  • On quiz Q2: “Yes, I'm overwhelmed and anxious right now.” (15:47)
  • “Learn to label what you're feeling so that the feeling does not become your entire identity.” (50:05)
  • “I feel like I want to redo my whole life.” (63:42)
  • On the dark empath: “Romantic sexual predator…they know your weaknesses and they can just twist it.” (46:24)
• Jonathan:
  • “160 million people have this very specific, unique characteristic.” (01:10)
  • “[Dark empaths are] a very dangerous person…You think that there’s a high level of understanding there but really what’s happening is manipulation.” (48:23)
  • “We know that...intuitive and extra sensory ability...are often primed by…childhood trauma. We know that that increases the people's likelihood of having intuitive and extra sensory ability.” (65:17)
  • On empathy and sports: “Can you direct yourself to focus on the winning team and feel the joy that they were experiencing?...Often when empaths go wrong...they are tuned into the pain frequency of the human experience.” (63:53–64:34)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–04:12: What makes someone an empath?
• 06:02: Distinction between empaths and highly sensitive people
• 09:31: Defining cognitive, emotional, and compassionate empathy
• 11:19–13:10: Other types of empaths; “psychometric empathy” story
• 15:34–26:07: Empath traits quiz
• 29:00–31:28: Neuroscience of empathy
• 34:32–36:39: Traits of low empaths; does low empathy help in tough environments?
• 40:20–43:52: How to build empathy—practical exercises
• 45:24–48:44: The dark empath explained
• 49:13–52:25: Empath burnout and tips for boundary-setting
• 52:25–65:17: Emotional databases, collective consciousness, and intentional tuning
• 63:42–69:23: Applied cases—sports and animal empathy, parenting impact
• 69:23–70:03: Listener challenges for practicing empathy skills

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Additional Resources

• Types of Empath Quiz: Linked in show notes (26:07, 70:03)
• Feeling Wheel Tool: Recommended for emotional literacy (50:05)
• Substack Community: For bonus content, discussion, and additional quizzes
• Previous Episodes Referenced:
  • Highly Sensitive People
  • Indigo Child
  • Narcissism
  • Are You Codependent?
  • Near Death Experiences, including Elizabeth Crone and Bruce Grayson

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Summary

This episode provides a nuanced and practical breakdown of what it means to be an empath, the neurological and psychological mechanisms underpinning empathy, and the broad continuum from sensitive to manipulative (dark empath) personalities. With practical tools, personal stories, and a blend of science and spirituality, Mayim and Jonathan empower empaths and non-empaths alike to better understand, build, and protect their emotional worlds. Whether seeking to develop more empathy or set healthier boundaries, listeners come away with actionable insights and a greater sense of community.

Transcript

[Mayim Bialik]

Do you have strong intuition? Do you experience deep emotions? Do you often feel pulled to deep emotional reactions to other people's experiences?

[Jonathan Cohen]

160 million people have this unique characteristic.

[Mayim Bialik]

You may be an empath.

[Jonathan Cohen]

A lot of empaths will have this set of extrasensory abilities. Some people are like, I see energy, I read energy, I feel energy.

[Mayim Bialik]

It's like, what? How am I feeling something that someone else is?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Is your life being controlled by a dark empath?

[Mayim Bialik]

A dark empath is someone who uses cognitive empathy for personal gain. They can be vindictive, manipulative. They often use love bombing, gaslighting, ghosting.

[Jonathan Cohen]

That person that you're describing is a, a very dangerous person. You think that there's a high level of understanding there, but really what's happening is.

[Mayim Bialik]

Hi, I'm Imbialik.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I'm Jonathan Cohen.

[Mayim Bialik]

Welcome to our breakdown. Today we're going to be talking about something that affects hundreds of millions of people.

[Jonathan Cohen]

160 million people have this very specific, unique characteristic. And if you have it and are interacting with people who don't have it, there can be a real significant divide.

[Mayim Bialik]

Are you the person that everyone confides in? Do you regularly feel burnt out? Do you regularly experience emotions and you don't know why? Do you often feel pulled to deep emotional reactions to other people's experiences? If so, you might be exactly the person that we're talking about. You may be an empath and you may have heard, oh, you're empathic, you're too sensitive, you're so sensitive. But what are the superpowers of being an empath? What are the different types of empaths? What happens with the dark side of being an empath? And if you're not empathic, empathic person, is this something you can build? We've got all of the answers to that and a lot more today.

[Jonathan Cohen]

One of the most fascinating parts for me was the dark side of empathy. We cover that later in the episode, but it is so terrifying because usually you think, well, empathy is great. It helps people feel seen and felt and there's a connection that is, that grows through that bond. And we, we are going to cover scientific basis for the benefits of being empathic, but it can be used against you in a way that can be manipulative. You have to know where the connection is coming from and are tactics being used to manipulate you as well. If you are highly empathic, this touches on some of the extra sensory, highly sensitive people episode that we did a few weeks ago. And there's some overlap here where if you are an empath, what are the ways that you can protect yourself, keep yourself emotionally, your emotional reserves charged in order to make sure that you're showing up in the world the way you want to?

[Mayim Bialik]

We're going to be breaking down the science of empathy. Is there really something different going on in the brains of people who are highly empathic? And we're going to talk about low empaths. What does it mean if you're a person who doesn't seem to be able to feel what other people are feeling? Have you been accused of being isolated emotionally, shut off emotionally? We're going to talk about what those interactions mean and specifically how the brain responds to different kinds of calculations that we have to do socially.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What's interesting about the low empathy quotient, some people will say, is empathy helpful? Does it get in the way of getting ahead in this capitalist cutthroat world? Or is it actually really a superpower to help you build teams, build alliances, and get people all on the same page? Moving forward, we're going to explore break it down.

[Mayim Bialik]

All right, let's get into some generic signs that you might be an empath. And also I want to distinguish between empathy, which is the, the feeling of being an empathetic person, and someone who is an empath. So we're talking about someone being an empath. Do you feel drained when exposed to intense emotions? To do you avoid emotionally impactful media? Are you the person that everyone naturally confides in? Do you feel compelled to practice compassion in everyday life? Do you have strong intuition? Is your intuition often correct? Do you dislike crowds? Do you experience deep emotions, like even crying in response to somebody else's experience, experiencing emotions without knowing why, and often feeling burned out because of these things. So, so these are signs that you might be an empath. Now you might be thinking, that sounds an awful lot like being a highly sensitive person. So I'm going to make this distinction very clear, as clear as I can. I would say, and this is a non clinical diagnostic measure, all highly sensitive people are empaths. Not all empaths are highly sensitive people. So being empathic and, and being labeled an empath is often something that happens when with highly sensitive people. Highly sensitive people tend to have more emotional and physiological reactivity to stimuli. Whereas people who are empaths may have some, but it's not, let's say, disturbing or upsetting or need to have them kind of removed from situations in the same way as people who are highly sensitive. So highly sensitive people tend to have you Know sound, smell, taste, auditory overstimulation. That's not necessarily true of empaths, but there's definitely some crossover here.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What was fascinating about a lot of the feedback and we got so many comments in the YouTube channel, in the comments section from people who watched and listened to our episode on Highly Sensitive People, people were giving us their scores. And we're going to encourage you to do that for this episode too. There is a quiz coming. Hold your hats, wait for it. But people were posting in the comments what their scores were for the Highly Sensitive People quiz. And what was fascinating is the number of them that said, oh, I'm also intuitive. Oh, I have extra sensory abilities. And those extra sensory abilities come in all different shapes and sizes. Some people are like, I have dreams. Some people are like, oh, I see energy, I read energy, I feel energy. So what I think the significant difference is here is highly sensitive people may have an increase in the likelihood that they have extra sensory abilities. This level of sensitivity, when we call it sensitivity, what we're saying is that there's something else that they're processing, feeling. Being aware of empathy is an extra feeling. And so when you say they have a visceral response, the empath will have a visceral response. That is a level of information that they're processing that is additional to what someone else might be processing. And so where I'm going here is that a lot of empaths will have this set of extrasensory abilities. Now, how they integrate it, understand it, utilize that skill, or integrate that skill, I think is a huge factor in whether or not it sort of overwhelms them and shuts them down. And they feel over, like disoriented by it versus can you make sense of it?

[Mayim Bialik]

We're going to be breaking down the science of what actually is going on in the brain. That might indicate that people who are empaths might have an opening into other kinds of understanding. But I think we should talk a little bit more about the specifics of empaths. What is this energy that Jonathan's talking about? What are you actually picking up that can sound a little bit like it's floating in the air? Let's bring it down to the ground. So there are three main types of empaths, and there's lots of different ways to categorize this. But for our purposes today, we're going to talk about cognitive empathy, emotional empathy, and compassionate empathy. So cognitive empathy is the ability to cognitively identify with someone else's feelings. So believe it or not, that's its own kind of empathy. Like, some people look at other people and they're like, I don't know what they're feeling. Other people like me get a whiff of someone's pinky from around the corner and I'm like, I know exactly what that person's feeling. That's cognitive empathy. Emotional empathy is the ability to feel someone else's emotions. So again, for those of you who are listening, it might be like, of course I can feel someone else's emotions. Of course I can experience that. Other people might be like, that person is experiencing something, but I don't feel anything. So that's emotional empathy.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And just to touch on that, there are people out there who are like, someone is crying, someone is doing their thing, and they're totally oblivious. They're, like, watching the game or they're doing their dishes, they're cooking. And like, they're not impacted at all by other people's experiences.

[Mayim Bialik]

The third type is a compassionate empath. So we have a cognitive, emotional and compassionate. Compassionate is wanting to help someone who is in need, meaning feeling a. A desire or a pull to actually be helpful. So some people may experience what someone else is feeling. They may feel it. They may not feel like they need to help a full empath. A full empath has developed skills in all three of these categories. So for those of you out there who are like, I feel what other people feel. If you don't also identify it accurately and have a desire to help them, you may not be a full empath. It's super awesome to be empathic in any of these ways. It's amazing to be a cognitive empath. It's amazing to be an emotional empath or a compassionate empathy. But are you a full empath?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Like, certified.

[Mayim Bialik]

Certified. Certified with the diploma, Michelin star. You are a Michelin star empath if you've developed skills in all three categories. So what does that look like? What does it look like to be a full empath? It means that you are interacting with people and animals in many cases, and you can identify accurately what they're feeling. You feel it yourself, you. And then there is a subsequent helping or assisting of the other person from a place of compassion. That's kind of the full empath experience. Now you might be wondering, are there other types of empaths? Yes, there are. And I just gave you a hint. We have listed here 12 other types of empaths. There's an animal empath. Jonathan, what's an animal empathy?

[Jonathan Cohen]

People who are empathic to Animals.

[Mayim Bialik]

That's right.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Amazing. Gold star.

[Mayim Bialik]

The other types of empaths are psychic empaths, precognitive empaths, indigo empaths. If you haven't checked out our Indigo Child episode, you can learn more about that. There are dream empaths, there are psychometric empaths.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What is that?

[Mayim Bialik]

A psychometric empath is someone who senses energy with objects or places.

[Jonathan Cohen]

We actually have a crazy story about that from Elizabeth Crone, who was one of our most viewed episodes on the near death experience topic area of this podcast where she had an experience with an object, the necklace.

[Mayim Bialik]

She felt like inexplicably drawn to purchase from a store that had no idea where it came from, how it got into the jewelry case, or or how much to charge her for it. She insisted on purchasing this necklace and it ended up foretelling a lot of very strange things. She tried to get rid of it. It kept ending up on her doorstep. She buried it in the yard. It showed up again. Eventually. It showed up under the front seat of her car. She thought she had gotten rid of it and when she went to sell the car, it was underneath her seat. She has no idea how it got there. We have a quiz here that we're going to link to. It is 20 questions that Jonathan is going to administer to me. I have not looked at them and it's a yes or no. So keep track. How many yeses do you have?

[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

Question Number one Mime have you ever been labeled as overly sensitive, shy or introverted?

[Mayim Bialik]

Overly sensitive, yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

2. Do you frequently get overwhelmed or anxious?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yes, I'm overwhelmed and anxious right now.

[Jonathan Cohen]

3. Do arguments or yelling make you ill?

[Mayim Bialik]

Very, very not pleasant. Yes. No, I can't. Even if I see it from like 100 yards away, I can't deal with it.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yeah, doesn't but fight in Lord of the Rings? No problem.

[Mayim Bialik]

Yes. And we'll talk about later the role of fiction

[Jonathan Cohen]

number four Do I often feel like I don't fit in?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yes I'm also an enneagram 4 for any enneagram Fours out there. That's one of our traits.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number five, are you drained by crowds or need alone time to revive yourself?

[Mayim Bialik]

I didn't know that I needed alone time to revive myself. I was just functioning on overwhelm by everything.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yes, Just a little family feud by herself and she'll be good as new. Number six, am I overstimulated by noises, odors?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yes, I'm overstimulated in general or non stop talkers? Yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What happens when you get a nonstop talker?

[Mayim Bialik]

I feel it. Like. Like an engine starts revving in my chest.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And what do you want to do? Run or put a sock in their mouth?

[Mayim Bialik]

No. Could be a sign of Jonathan being a dark empath that he wants to put a sock in the mouth of someone who's speaking. We'll find out later this episode.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I don't want to. I just want to run away. Number seven, do you have chemical sensitivities or can't tolerate scratchy clothes?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah. Yes, that's me.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yes, but you did have linen sheets, which I did understand.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, I have. I have chemical sensitivity, but I'm. I'm the other side of like. I'm just like numbed out to any physical sensation. I'm a cutoff from the neck person. But I do have chemical sensitivity. So that's a yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Sleeping on some sandpaper? No problem.

[Mayim Bialik]

When your son asked me if my feet sweat, I was like, what? Who even knows? Well, I don't know.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Do I even have feet?

[Mayim Bialik]

Do I have feet? Actually, we were playing pickleball with your child and when I was wearing a non fancy sock and I could see that my toe was sweating and I said to him, look, my feet are sweating, but only because my sock showed it. It was like a pale gray sock and it was thin and possibly not cotton.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Look how much awareness you're getting through this podcast. Number eight, do I prefer taking my own car places so that I can leave early if I need to and

[Mayim Bialik]

not have to speak to people on the way? Yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Also, there's always an escape plan.

[Mayim Bialik]

Even with you. I always prefer to just be in my own car.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Anytime we've ever gone somewhere, you inform me ahead of time that we won't be staying long, that we will be leaving early, and that we will have no fun.

[Mayim Bialik]

You're in good company. My ex husband said he never ate a piece of wedding cake. We were invited to weddings all the time we were gone by the cake. He's like, I Just want to try some wedding cake.

[Jonathan Cohen]

This is a little tidbit I think people will appreciate. We don't go out very much for this very reason. And we got invited to dinner in Santa Monica for someone's going away party. And so, you know, Santa Monica is not so fun.

[Mayim Bialik]

It was our friend Scott Barry Kaufman, cognitive scientist, Columbia professor Scott Barry Kaufman.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Great podcast that he has. And so, Scott, if you're listening to this, what you told me ahead of time was, let's go for dinner, but we'll just pop in and say hi and then leave before we have to order. And I said, how are we going to a dinner party and leaving before we eat anything?

[Mayim Bialik]

First of all, a true empath, a true hsp, would know exactly how to do that. Valerie, do you know how to go to a dinner and leave before if anyone orders a main course, 100%. It's something we're just like, it's in our DNA. We know how to do it. I know the sentences to say really sorry have to, we're just going to have an appetizer and then got to go. Don't want to be disruptive. I'll leave now if you prefer. Also, Scott should know this had nothing to do with my affection or tenderness that I feel for him. Or our friend Sam Harris, who was at the dinner as well. There was a lot going on that week. It had nothing to do with Scott. I wasn't sure I could deal with the stimulation. I think that's an unfair characterization.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Spoiler alert. You made it through the entire dinner and you were able to walk out on your own. You didn't have to be carried.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm going to give you the two words that allowed me to stay at that dinner, which I think Valerie will understand. French fries. If you serve me French fries, I will stay.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number nine. Do I overeat to cope with stress?

[Mayim Bialik]

This is a vulnerable one. And I actually am surprised to hear that that's on the list. Yes, I didn't know that this might

[Jonathan Cohen]

be a thing, but yes, it's actually a surprising one. And I think, you know what I'm always fascinated by when we do these explorations of people's personality or tendencies, characteristics, is that there's always like, oh, did you know that frozen shoulder was actually the result of something totally else? Or did you know that overeating was the result of this other emotional thing going on? So there's always these surprising correlations that

[Mayim Bialik]

we find before we get back into the quiz. We just did an excerpt of this episode that you need to hear on Substack. So if you have not yet gone over to Substack sign up, you can adjust all of your settings and notifications to whatever you want. But this is a particularly hilarious and important one and it relates directly to this episode and the episode on Highly Sensitive People. So please follow Mayim Bialik's breakdown on substack. And now we will get back to the quiz after a really, really significant insert that we highly recommend you go over to my Balik's breakdown on Substack

[Jonathan Cohen]

to listen to number 10. Am I afraid of becoming suffocated by intimate relationships?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yes. Some people, like me, are clingy, codependent, needy, Velcro humans. However, that doesn't mean that I don't have fear. Fear about intimate connections and interactions.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You just fear not having the more,

[Mayim Bialik]

well, anxious or avoidant attachment will do that. You want to be close, and it's scary to be close. A lot of my, like, desire to cut and run from relationships which has plagued me my whole life, is exactly this. So thanks for bringing up that incredibly painful aspect of my existence.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Look, if nothing else, we're here to be real, to bear it all for our MBB listeners. Number 11, do I startle easily?

[Mayim Bialik]

Just you asking that startled me. Yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number 12, do I react strongly to caffeine or medications?

[Mayim Bialik]

100%.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You don't even drink caffeine.

[Mayim Bialik]

I don't even. I very rarely drink caffeine. And I'm that person who, if you give me, like, Sudafed or any of those, like those other Medicare, I lose my effing mind. It's like I'm stoned. I once took a Sudafed. I can't remember. It was a strong react. Before I got on a plane, I literally was concerned I might be stopped. I seemed out of my noggin. And I'm that person who has to tell, like an anesthesiologist or a dentist, like, I react strongly to certain medications. Please be careful what you give me. Yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number 13, do I have a low pain threshold?

[Mayim Bialik]

You know, this is a funny one. My trauma has given me a high pain threshold, but I do often feel things that other people don't. So I'm gonna go ahead and say I do have a low pain threshold. I have a very complicated relationship with pain, as a lot of people kind of in my universe do. But I'm not the kind of person who, like some people, like, if you stub a toe, it's like you may as well have broken the Whole body.

[Jonathan Cohen]

That's not you.

[Mayim Bialik]

That's not me. It's Jonathan. But I won't say it out loud. I think a lot of women might be thinking like my man might be an empath because of just this one.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You need more than one to qualify.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number 14. Do I tend to socially isolate?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yes, that is a coping mechanism. By socially isolating, we're talking about. Not necessarily. If you're in a group, are you isolating from the group? We're talking about avoiding social interactions by just staying home and being by yourself.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number 15, do I absorb other people's stress emotions or symptoms?

[Mayim Bialik]

I didn't realize that's what was happening, but I think that that's what's happening. Yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number 16, am I overwhelmed by multitasking and prefer to do one thing at a time?

[Mayim Bialik]

This is a maybe for me because, you know, my, my ADHD qualities in many cases allow me to have a lot of hands in a lot of pots at once. So this might be a no for me.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I think that is could be a no. Do you replenish yourself in nature?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yes. Again. Another thing I didn't know was a thing. Didn't even know that that's like a thing.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's a thing send you into a body of water to swim and love you come out a new person. Do you need a long time to recuperate after being with difficult people or energy vampires?

[Mayim Bialik]

Absolutely, yes. It feels depleting, like, it feels like, like someone has sucked my energy from me. Hence the name energy vampire.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Number 19. Do I feel better in small cities or countries rather than large cities?

[Mayim Bialik]

You know, I feel better when there's less stimulus. I think that's a yes for me. But I do like the madness of a New York. I like the madness of a Jerusalem. I like the madness of, you know, of certain anonymity aspects of that. But generally speaking, I don't love the stimulation of a large city. Yeah.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Do I prefer one to one interactions or small groups rather than large gatherings?

[Mayim Bialik]

Absolutely, yes.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Those were the 20 questions. Let's ask Valerie how you did 19 out of 20.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, so if you answered yes to more than 15 of those, that means you are a full blown empathy card carrying.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Maybe will print certificates from the MBB with the MBB logo.

[Mayim Bialik]

11 to 15 means you have strong empathic tendencies. 6 to 10 means you have moderate empathic tendencies. And 1 to 5 is you're partially an empath. We're also going to link to a quiz which allows you to figure out what type of empath you are, meaning you can figure out if you're a plant, an animal, a psychic empath. We'll link to that quiz below. It's a really fun one. I want to get into the science of empathy, which is the quality that empaths possess. And from a sort of scientific perspective, you know, what is empathy? Right? It's a combined ability to interpret the emotional state of others, right? That's that emotional empath component, which also involves a sort of cognitive component, right? The, the cognitive empath being able to identify that and simultaneously being able to experience emotions that then elicit, let's say, compassionate behavior, right? So when we talk about that full empath, you know, spectrum, that's what we're looking for. And scientifically, this is actually something that can be studied. So the term empathy from a more clinical perspective is, is the vicarious sharing of another's pain or, or sorrow. So there's obviously positive empathy and you can feel other people's positive emotions. But when you think evolutionarily, like, what's the purpose of this? Like, why do we have this? Why is it useful? If you, you know, read philosophers like Ayn Rand, she might say, like, it's not useful, right? Everybody should just kind of mind to themselves and we don't need to have this. But the, the empathizer, the person who is empathizing, is understanding the negative emotion of another person so as to sort of change behavior. And why is empathy considered a complex emotional process? This is something that scientists have determined developed later compared to basic emotions, right? Like happiness or fear. Those are emotions like, is something good, is it bad, right? Do I go towards this? Do I stay away from it? Those are kind of more basic emotions. But when we talk about empathy, this is an experience of what's called blended emotion, right? It's your emotion and mine, or it's my emotion and yours, right? So goodwill, concern for others, you know, symbiotic kind of interactions. Those are things that developed in theory, kind of later, they're more complicated, as it were. We talk a lot about the prefrontal cortex here. If you've been following this is probably a term, an anatomical region or set of interactions that you've heard us talk about. The prefrontal cortex is important for emotional processing. So that's literally processing others emotions. It's the major, the major representative in the cortex of the limbic system. So the limbic system is all of those kind of complicated emotional and, and elaborate emotional interactions. And the prefrontal cortex is the cortical representation of the limbic system. This is where that information is kind of getting moved to for processing. So emotional processing and executive functioning. So what is executive functioning? This is working memory, this is emotional regulation. It's, it's the self monitoring processes. It's when this part of you is damaged, you often lose impulse control. Right. So when you think about the prefrontal cortex, it's a combination, right, of emotional processing and executive functioning. And that's what they think is one of these regions that is both holding emotional information, allowing you to switch the attention of concentration between is this mine or, or is it yours? And to then execute and orchestrate an appropriate emotional response. So this is all prefrontal cortex. So emotional information processing, the ability to switch attention between your feelings and someone else's and then to orchestrate and execute an appropriate emotional response. So there's many, many interesting studies that are done. One of the studies that I was reading about was 128 children. So it was a study of 128, I think they were, yes, 6 to 10 year olds. What they found was symmetrical activity between the left and right hemispheres often reflected a better ability to express empathy. So this is one of these things that's incredibly interesting to neuroscientists and those of you who are interested in these kinds of things. Also frontopolar activation was seen and, and particularly bilateral activation. So when you think about why are people empathic and why are people not empathic and is there some genetic basis? Yeah, it could be that there are certain pathways that predispose you or make you more likely to have this kind of bilateral symmetry which in this kind of study would show people who are more likely to be experiencing an empathic reaction.

[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

That's a $20 product, free on top of your discount already.

[Mayim Bialik]

This is a limited time offer and while supplies last, you can't get it on Amazon, you can't get it in stores. This offer exists in one place. Our link, our code. That's it. So maybe you were already thinking about it. This is the sign. Go to buyoptimizers.com breaker use the code breaker. Grab it before it's gone. Make 2026 the year you finally start sleeping again. With Verbal's last minute deals, you can save over 50 on your spring getaway. So whether it's a mountain escape with friends, a at the beach or sightseeing in a new city, there's still time to get great discounts. Book your next day now. Average savings $72. Select homes only. That leads us to a conversation of what about low empaths? What about people who are like, I'm a good person, I'm a nice person, but like I'm not feeling it. What's going on there? So some of the qualities of low empaths and you, you, you may already know them. If you know someone who is a low empath, they may be critical and judgmental. In particular, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in now if you had done this right. I know what you could have done. To not feel that is often a feature of someone who's a low empath could also just be a feature of someone who's kind of a jerk. But with all of these other qualities, we're trying to kind of paint a picture. Low empaths often feel like it wouldn't happen to them, meaning I wouldn't be in that situation. So why should I feel for you when I kind of know what I would have done in that situation? Low empaths often call other people too sensitive, meaning if you know someone who kind of tends to call other people overly sensitive or see other people's feelings as optional.

[Jonathan Cohen]

So just because someone is an empath doesn't mean that they are always empathic, Correct?

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah, that would mean that if we're looking for like diagnostic criteria, I fall more on the empathic side. But I can also be a jerk sometimes and sometimes low empaths can be jerks too.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I'm going to touch on number one and two on the low empath scale because a lot of people, and this goes to the idea of is this helpful or harmful? Some people will say quit wallowing in all of your issues. It doesn't matter how you got there, it doesn't matter how you feel about it. The only thing that matters is what you do next. Like pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Even if you are in a bad situation, you need to be able to get out of it and you're making a face of like, oh, that's really harsh. But a lot of people will, will say that and they're saying, I'm not a jerk, I'm just. If you want to navigate and have a successful life, there's a certain amount that you can focus on your emotions and how you got here and why you're feel so badly for yourself. And then you have to take some kind of action and take a step forward in order to activate and, and be self actualizing.

[Mayim Bialik]

Like someone like Joe Dispenza, someone like Bruce Lipton, even like Tony Robbins, people who like those kinds of things, even Mel Robbins. Right. That's not to say those people are not empathic. That's a different approach. Approach. So I don't want to, I don't want us to confuse those, we're talking about these features of people who are low empaths. Yeah.

[Jonathan Cohen]

But I'm going to take it one step further and say you can feel like that, that that should be the end result and not dismiss the experience that someone is going through. Meaning you could have the same end result, which is, you know, you wouldn't be in trouble if you had taken the right actions earlier, before you got in this situation, while still having an empathy for them being in that situation. Because I don't want to confuse these that oh, if you're empathic you can't set a boundary, you can't take a step in the right direction or you can't make concrete plans. I don't want to. I think there's a difference between the emotional realm of feeling and sensing and the action realm of navigating the world in, in ways that help you push yourself forward.

[Mayim Bialik]

Another thing that low empaths do is they often respond in inappropriate ways. And if you've ever known someone who. There's sometimes overlap here also with the spectrum where sometimes people literally don't understand what's going on. But, but people who are low empaths and who are kind of on this scale might seem indifferent or even cheerful if you've expressed something sad. They may literally not be resonating with what's going on. Um, and in addition, and kind of in a similar vein, people who are low empaths may have trouble understanding how their behavior affects others. And we often see this in the autism spectrum. It's very, it's not ill intentioned, but often low empaths literally don't understand that their behavior affects other people. Um, and they may, they may seem selfish, they may even seem vindictive. They don't realize that it's actually hurting other people. So those are some qualities of low empaths. Some of these low empath qualities can occur in autism. Can also see low empathy in psychopaths or antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, also narcissistic personality disorder, different from narcissism per se. But this is a place where you may see low empathy as kind of features of those diagnoses. And just a quick note, you know, we've talked about some of the prefrontal cortex stuff and some of the sort of like neuropathways that might be involved with different aspects of, of empathy. Prefrontal cortex in particular, low emotional intelligence is often linked to, to low empathy, meaning not having an understanding of emotions can lead you to not understand obviously the way that they impact other people and exist in other people, and prolonged stress, emotional avoidance. These are reasons that people also may not feel generous in terms of empathy. And many people feel it's not worth the mental effort, time and emotional weight to develop empathy.

[Jonathan Cohen]

The idea of shutting down and what creates emotional flooding, which is basically the overwhelm where you can't process. You know something is happening, you're feeling something's happening, but you feel unable to either communicate it, metabolize it, speak to it, respond in a way that's going to yield a result that's positive, you can tend to just block it and shut it down, which can show up as a lack of empathy where someone is either stonewalled or if you're trying to have a conversation with someone and they've sort of become introverted and they're blocking that communication, you may say, oh, they have no empathy, but it may be that they actually feel a lot but don't have the tools to communicate it. And I think that is often happening in, in couples, one person will have a higher emotional language and vocabulary than another. Someone Might be a faster processor than another. That is different than having low empathy in general or the capacity to build empathy. I think the other thing that is really interesting to think about is our stress level. How much bandwidth do we have for emotional processing versus how much are we just simply using our resources to survive, keep our head above water and tend to our basic needs when we are exposed to high levels of stress, especially ongoing stress? Empathy is one of those hierarchy of needs that can be put by the wayside.

[Mayim Bialik]

One study in particular, foundation that empathy was associated with forgiveness in men, but not in women. This was based on, it's about 130 people. But just kind of interesting to think about the different aspects of empathy that might vary in some cases by gender and might be able to be tackled. So just wanted to give that a shout out. So let's say you're a person who has low empathy or you love someone who has low empathy. Is this something that you can actually work on? Is it something that can change? There may be genetic predispositions, there may be obviously personality types that people have. But how do you build these different aspects of empathy? So we've talked about cognitive empathy, we've talked about emotional empathy, and we've talked about compassionate empathy. Let's start with cognitive empathy. So that is basically understanding what, and labeling what others are feeling. The way that you do this is to literally, it's like put yourself in someone else's shoes. One of the suggested activities was go different places where there are people who believe or live life differently than you do and try and actively understand what they're experiencing. This is a time I think in global history and certainly in the history of North America where there's a lot there that people have found challenging to understand. But that is the true, you know, kind of way to build that cognitive empathy. Also second guess yourself. Oh, this is a great activity. Have an internal or even written debate with yourself about something that you think you believe strongly. Argue the other side of it. See what it's like to second guess yourself, see what comes up. I always love when my kids have like a debate and they come home, you know, a debate class and they come home and I'm like, what did you debate? You know, and it's usually some like really big thing, you know, it's, it's, it's abortion, it's, you know, voting rights, things like that. It's, it's an important exercise for your brain to develop cognitive empathy.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Especially in this day and age when we're all on an individualized media drip of news. Trying to see the world through someone else's perspective is such a valuable exercise.

[Mayim Bialik]

What about increasing emotional empathy? So this is basically being able to emotionally feel what someone else is feeling. Active listening is something like, are you actually listening to what someone is saying and what emotions they're expressing instead of

[Jonathan Cohen]

just thinking, what do I want to say next?

[Mayim Bialik]

Right. What do I want to say next? How do I want to react to it?

[Jonathan Cohen]

How am I going to tell them that they're wrong and I'm right?

[Mayim Bialik]

Right. Asking open ended questions is one way of doing this and really listening. Also harness the power of oxytocin. Eye contact. Look at people, see. See if you can understand what they're feeling from looking at them. Also physical touch, being, being the person who places a hand or says to someone, do you want a hug? Those things can increase your ability to also feel what the other person's feeling.

[Jonathan Cohen]

In this work world where so much moved to zoom, we lost one of the biggest ways that we create empathy with other people, which is being together. The digital interaction is not the same. We don't exchange energy the same way. That's not the, you know, scientific term. But we, we know that there are scientific studies of simply being around people, sharing gaze, eye contact with them increases our levels of feeling bonded and connected and increases our ability to show empathy to one another.

[Mayim Bialik]

What about enhancing compassionate empathy? So this is the ability to want to sort of act on understanding that you can support someone else's emotional process. Developing cognitive empathy and emotional empathy help towards developing compassionate empathy. In theory, they're kind of wired similarly in that there should be some sort of domino effect here. One of the suggestions is to read fiction, so learn about other people's stories and understand, especially from writers who can write richly about other people's emotional experience. It can stimulate those other aspects of empathy so that you can start to kind of garner that compassion. I thought that was a very interesting suggestion. Jonathan, you're gonna give us some other suggestions for people who are too empathic, which is its own kind of problem. But before we get into that, I do wanna touch on dark empathy. A dark empath is someone who uses usually cognitive empathy for personal gain at the expense of others so they can see someone's situation. They're like, I get what's happening there, but they do not have sympathy for them. So I know everybody's brain is like, tick, tick, tick, tick. I know this person, I know this guy.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I mean, they might have sympathy, but what presupposes or, or goes ahead of that sympathy is their need to control, manipulate, or benefit in some way.

[Mayim Bialik]

Right, so this is a person. I'm going to describe the person who could be the dark empath. They could be. They're emotionally detached. They often have a grandiose bent to them that's actually fueled by intense self criticism. They can be vindictive, emotionally manipulative. They're often extroverts. They're often sarcastic, intimidating. They often use love bombing, gaslighting, ghosting. I can guarantee you that everyone listening who has ever dated someone who might fall on the narcissist scale is like, yes, because there's a certain kind of, I'm going to say it. Romantic sexual predator. And I'm not saying it's always a man. They can be women too. To me, there's a certain kind of romantic sexual partner who like, sees into your head. Valerie, am I getting a head nod like you? Even if you didn't date this person or marry them, you know this person, they're like such a persuasive manipulator. It's like they're in your head, they know your weaknesses and they can just twist it. And especially if you're in a vulnerable place, if you've had trauma, maybe they're helping you through it. Maybe they're a healer, right? A doctor, someone taking advantage of in that situation. I never thought of it as like a dark empath, but it's someone who's often very intelligent. I'm thinking of a very specific person, someone who's very intelligent and they get it. They can clock it, but they're like, how can I use it? For me, that's a dark empath.

[Jonathan Cohen]

That person that you're describing is a very dangerous person. There's also a version which we covered in our episode on narcissism, which is the COVID narcissist who is super empathic, lures often men in and then is, oh, woe is me. Everything is so hard for me. I can't, you know, I, I, I can't succeed because. And pulls them in to be taken care of and offers in exchange this level of understanding, but starts to put parameters in place, starts to shift the narrative, often labeling their experience. No, you, it isn't like this. It's like, it's like how I see it. And I understand you more than anyone else. And you can get your claws put into you in a way that is very difficult to extract because you think that there's a high level of understanding there but really what's happening is manipulation.

[Mayim Bialik]

I love how there's so many different aspects of different kind of personality features and episodes that we do that show really the complexity of the human experience. And it's not about one label, it's not about one diagnosis. It's really about a variety of like, behaviors, interactions, and then how those impact the choices that we make and particularly the people that we choose to be in relationship with.

[Jonathan Cohen]

If you do have an experience with someone where you. There's a high level of empathy where someone's like, oh, they get me in this amazing way. Take a beat, see, see what happens. Do they have an agenda? Right? Like we can get lured in by the sense of being seen and understood really quickly. And we want to know what, is there an agenda there? What type of interaction are we going to have next beyond just being seen?

[Mayim Bialik]

So besides the desire to be seen, this leads perfectly into what happens if your being an empath makes you everyone's shoulder to cry on. Because you're the person who gets them. You're the person who constantly feels what they're feeling. And you know, if you've ever been told, like, no one gets me like you do, or I can't talk to anyone else, like, I can talk to you. Sometimes people really feel those things. You know, I remember I was, you know, labeled an old soul right when I was young. And I remember, you know, I had a friend who's, whose father died when we were quite young. And I could see that, like I was a person who was able to kind of hold for that person in the way that a lot of other 14 year olds weren't into. And I see now I had these qualities of like, I really felt it. I felt it so deeply and I wanted to be helpful, I wanted to be supportive. And I'm seeing that that can also take a toll, you know, on you. So, Jonathan, we wanted to talk a little bit about if you are an empath and if you are feeling perhaps overwhelmed by the blending that can happen between other people's emotions and yours, we have some general tips here. You know, one of the things is to label what you're feeling when you're feeling it. So remember that thoughts and feelings are actually not the same thing. We often combine them. But when we feel something, there's a thought behind it, there's a need. Even creating a cognitive label for it can help. So you know what? I happen to have my feeling wheel right here. And the feeling wheel is a tool of nonviolent communication or nvc and what it is is it's, it's a way to literally label a feeling. So let's say someone's feeling something and you feel sad. Can you go a level deeper and label it? Do you feel despair? Do you feel guilt? Do you feel hurt? Do you feel depressed? Do you feel lonely? Those are all under sad, right? So the first thing we'd say is like, ugh, I feel sad. Well, what is it? There's another layer, the third layer on the outside of this feeling wheel. Here are your choices. Isolated, Abandoned. Victimized. Fragile. Grief. Powerless. Ashamed. Remorseful. Empty. Inferior. Disappointed. Embarrassed. I highly recommend you can print one of these up for free off the Internet. Learn to label your feelings. It is incredibly helpful. It gives a lot more information. So that's kind of the first tip. Learn to label what you're feeling so that the feeling feeling does not become your entire identity. Ask yourself if what you're feeling is yours, someone else's, or a mix. Now, for me, I don't really have any idea what this is, but Jonathan is going to explain this to us also. Jonathan, does this extend into the realm of extra sensory abilities?

[Jonathan Cohen]

If you're going through the process of labeling your feelings, also know that you don't have to fix them. Acknowledging them, being aware of them, bringing them to the surface. They will pass, they will shift. And one of the things to be aware of in that process of shifting is, are these mine or am I picking up on other people's stuff? Especially with empaths, when we think about them as having a higher aperture or, you know, bandwidth, you know, they're getting more information that can be energetic, can be sensory information. It may be that they are tuned into someone who is not in directly in their proximity. Could be a family member, it could be a friend, it could be someone going through something. How often, if you're an empath, have you thought about someone for a few days? I had this experience actually a handful of months ago. A friend of mine from childhood kept popping into my mind. I hadn't spoken to this guy in years, but we grew up together. We spent a lot of time together in school. I played hockey with him when I was 6 years old and was that summer camp with him. And he just kept coming up in my mind. And so I ignore it for the first couple times I ignore it again. But over the course of three weeks, it just keeps happening. I call him and then I find out we have a great reconnection. I catch up with him, he doesn't say anything to Me, he still, after that conversation, keeps coming up on my mind. Turns out his mother passed away a week or two after I spoke to him. And, you know, it was so much nicer for me to be able to have had reconnected with him and then have sent him a condolence and sort of tracked and tried to connect with him around that time. But we can easily have people's either information or emotional experience come up to us, come up for us when we're not around them. So evaluating if I have an emotion, is this mine? Is this my experience? What does it feel like when it's mine versus someone else's? And that is where, you know, this is a whole other episode on what do people who do have extra sensory abilities do to try and differentiate between the types of feeling that they have?

[Mayim Bialik]

For many of us who operate in a very materialistic way, it's like, what how could I be feeling? Right? Like, how am I feeling something that someone else's. And for this we could refer people to any number of episodes we've done about a notion of collective consciousness. Thomas Campbell is a great example. Bruce Lipton is a great example. There. There's this notion that there are certain people who have an ability to tap into things that we often can't explain, but which often have very, very deep emotional repercussions. Any of the episodes we've done on near death experiences have hinted at this Dr. Bruce Grayson experiencing something inexplicable to him. Someone who literally traveled outside of their body. Right. The Angela Ford episode. What does that mean for people who are empaths? They may actually be on this spectrum of having emotional ability that could possibly explain, extend to other things. So when we talk about sort of the weight, the emotional weight of being an empath, let's say, Jonathan, that you're able to sort of say, I'm gonna understand that I'm feeling something very intensely that's simply not mine. Meaning I can have compassion for that person. I can feel empathy, I can feel sympathy, I can understand it, but I don't wanna physically hold it in my body. Jonathan, can you sort of talk us through? Is there some sort of way to like, visualize like them over there and me over here, like, what do I do when I feel it in my body and it really feels like me first?

[Jonathan Cohen]

Identifying that there is a feeling that is happening and identifying, is it mine or someone else's? Now, if you've never done that before, I would start by questioning, I'm feeling something. Maybe use the feeling wheel. But really asking, is this mine or someone else's? And if you don't have a direct relationship with asking your higher self or a collective consciousness, then I think that's. That's another conversation that we could have. Maybe we'll do a sub stack on it. Put in the comments if you've had that experience or if you're stuck in that moment so that we have a better understanding of what people's experiences are. Um, but that's the starting point. If it's mine and I'm feeling it, then I need to process it. And it goes through the pathway that we often describe of emotions being transient. Right. They come up. They're clusters of sensation. They may have a narrative attached to them. They're going to pass as we observe them. We don't have to fix them necessarily. Or there may be a need associated with it. Right. Like, I am sad because I'm disappointed. I'm going to acknowledge that I may. There may be some interpersonal work to do.

[Mayim Bialik]

I have a question because I realized I don't understand something very, very basic. Let's say I hear that something bad happens to someone and I feel super bad. And it's not meaning. I'm not talking about God forbid you hear someone that is close to you is sick or someone, God forbid, passed away. I hear something that happened to someone else. This is a point I'm. I'm literally asking, I'm not being facetious, where if I'm having a feeling, I need to literally say, am I feeling it or am I feeling it about that? Is that what this means? Like, I'm this year's old. When I'm understanding that I need to literally say, oh, if I'm feeling sadness because someone broke up with that other person, that's not mine.

[Jonathan Cohen]

This is an amazing moment. Right. Where think about a breakup.

[Mayim Bialik]

Like, I hear someone broke up with someone.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Where do you feel it? Viscerally in your body. So I know, like do a quick skin. Where do you feel it?

[Mayim Bialik]

I feel it in my chest. Like when I think about this. Yeah. And it feels like I'm sad. I feel sad.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You may feel sad. Yes. Now, in your mind's eye, go to the person who has had that breakup.

[Mayim Bialik]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And the same way you would do your own body scan. Scan their body.

[Mayim Bialik]

What does that mean?

[Jonathan Cohen]

You're closing your eyes. You bring up the person who has gone through the breakup. You can see them. And now scan quickly scan their body. Does do you get any sensation or emotion?

[Mayim Bialik]

I think of their heart.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Okay. So now you have to. You have the opportunity to say what you felt. How much of it is yours and how much of it do you feel?

[Mayim Bialik]

It feels like I'm feeling it for them. Yeah, feels like I'm feeling it. So that's not mine.

[Jonathan Cohen]

So that's not yours. And so what you just did in the moment of your empathetic experience was that you tapped into the energy of the breakup that exists in the universe, and you went right to it and thought it was yours.

[Mayim Bialik]

Now I feel hot.

[Jonathan Cohen]

So you can gently say, this is your experience that I was aware of, but I'm gonna give it back to you.

[Mayim Bialik]

So it's like by me feeling it, it's like some part of my brain feels like I can make it better for this person when they have to feel it on their own.

[Jonathan Cohen]

I mean, that is a whole other meaning that I'm not even touching on right now. Which, you know, you could talk about in the intellectualization of why you felt it. Why not? But if we just talk about the fundamental, like, building blocks here. Every experience that people have exists in the database. You just went and tapped into that experience in the database and then felt it viscerally for yourself.

[Mayim Bialik]

And in theory, what a lot of people would do is like, I need to call them, I need to text them, I'm going to send them flowers, I'm going to take them out to lunch, right? And that may be coming from a healthy place, or it may be coming from a place of like, I need to feel this go away. I need to like, do something so that I don't feel their pain. And that's actually kind of a codependent thing to do. Meaning, like, you're not feeling well, so I need you to feel better so that I don't feel bad. I mean, that's like the basis of my emotional codependency is I don't like what you're feeling because it's making me feel it. What about the overlap between codependency and empaths?

[Jonathan Cohen]

We did an episode on are you codependent? And go back and listen to that one. Tell us your score on the codependency episode and then the empath episode and see if there is an overlap. I would suggest that a lot of empaths aren't differentiating between what they're sensing in the database and what is their personal experience. Now, in that exercise we just did, you could very well feel badly for her.

[Mayim Bialik]

But feeling badly for someone is different than feeling they're bad.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Correct. And if you just felt badly for them. It would. This is. This is sort of the criteria or characteristic of that feeling. It would be like, oh, that hurts my heart a little bit. I feel for her. But it would pass much more quickly if you're, oh, my God, that really hurts my heart. And I can't breathe and I'm crying and I'm crying and I can't get over this. It's likely not yours, because an experience that you haven't gone through won't sit and resonate and impact you in the same way. So it is an energetic exercise to remove yourself and. And allow that energy to shift back. Because actually you holding that for them entangles you in it and doesn't allow it to shift more easily for them.

[Mayim Bialik]

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and say this. Valerie and I have this.

[Jonathan Cohen]

With animals, it is a little bit different because they. They are often dependent on human beings.

[Mayim Bialik]

No, but it. Like, I. But like, if you see one in the wild, or like, I once saw a raccoon that had been hit by a car. I mean, it was like, it was.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's harder to know in that circumstance because that's a very sad experience. And if it's been hit by a

[Mayim Bialik]

car, but I felt the raccoon, it doesn't feel like I was feeling bad for the raccoon. I was feeling the bad of the raccoon.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What I think is the most interesting part of this is think about all the information that exists in the database. At any given time. We have the opportunity to connect into that type of information, and we get to choose what we want to tap into. This is an example of what our automatic choosing does when it's not guided. But as we start to practice guiding our focus of what we feel, what we're connected to, then the possibilities for what we experience open up.

[Mayim Bialik]

I feel like I want to redo my whole life.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Okay, here's an experience. Recently, not that long ago, you were watching the NBA finals.

[Mayim Bialik]

Oh, no.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And here's a question. Did you feel more connected to the people who were winning or the pain of the loss, the team that lost and the pain that they were going through, or the excitement and exhilaration of the winning team? And can you direct yourself to focus on the winning team and feel the joy that they were experiencing? Can you hold that energy? Because often when empaths go wrong and when they have the negative repercussions of being overly empathic is because they are tuned into the pain frequency of the

[Mayim Bialik]

human experience that was A very special thing you just said.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's a, it's a heavier, easier energy in some ways to connect to the higher vibration of joy, happiness, excitement is a different almost tuning system.

[Mayim Bialik]

I mean evolutionarily you technically would be more geared towards pain and suffering because like am I going to suffer what they're suffering feels more important than am I going to eat the happy berry, you know, that they're eating. It's like oh, the person that's like vomiting and dying evolutionarily seems more important to pay attention to than hippie like you know, skipping, frolicking person over here making their.

[Jonathan Cohen]

People who found the magic mushrooms and are making the baskets I want to know about.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm more interested in the poisonous mushroom people than the psychedelic mushroom people.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And often what we know. And again this is anecdotal, it's not coming from, you know, large data sets, but it's coming from the comments, the overabundance of comments and messages that we've been getting on these episodes and what we've seen in the near death experiences that for people who are prime their systems are primed to build extra sensory and intuitive information. They've often gone through some sort of difficult childhood. Whether that be physical psychological abuse or whether it just be high levels of adversity and conflict and being othered exclusion, whatever that may be. We know that that increases the people's likelihood of having intuitive and extra sensory ability. So they're again going to be primed for that challenge, sadness, grief, frequency that they will just naturally tune into more. And again that can feel overwhelming and it can lead to feelings isolated, wanting to avoid crowds, wanting to avoid interaction. If you know that you're going to then tap into those, those emotions versus training yourself to tap into the higher frequencies.

[Mayim Bialik]

I want to answer this sports question, cause I think that's a really interesting one. I don't know how many empaths out there are sports fans like I am. You know, there's a definite experience for me in seeing the losing team and I often will say, you know, on the one hand, like oh, their mothers must be so proud that they're winning, right? And like I'll say to my kids, like if you were that player, I'd be so proud of you. But then on the other hand it's like, oh, the devastation. And what does that feel like? And with these recent NBA finals that just finished a little bit ago, there were some heartbreaker injuries that felt really, really very difficult and painful. And actually there was, I think I can say it in Game 7 of these recent NBA Finals, Halliburton, the star player for the Indiana Pacers, you could see something pop in his leg on television. And it was the beginning of, you know, the. The most important game of this series. And his entire team formed a circle around him on the floor, partly to protect him from having to be seen in his pain, both, you know, physical and emotional, of not being able to play. He was removed from the game and couldn't play the rest of the game, and they ended up losing. But the star player from the other team, Shea Gilgis Alexander, who was the mvp, actually came over and touched him and made a connection with him. And I was thinking what a generous and complicated moment that is to be able to show that sort of extension of empathy in the middle of this kind of situation. So, yeah, I was also thinking about how after my kids were born, I became much more sensitive. Right? And now I'm wondering if it was not just becoming more sensitive, but if my empathy was increasing because of the hormones, you know, the bonding experience that you participate in. You know, if all of that priming, right, that hormonal priming of labor and delivery and breastfeeding and all those things, they do make you tuned in because again, evolutionarily, you've got to be a lot more sensitive to what others are experiencing because you're tuned into keeping this thing alive. Right. For primates, it's like, keep that thing, thing alive for a very, very long period of time. And a lot of people who experience, let's say, postpartum depression would be the first to say, like, oh, I didn't feel that. That pull. I didn't feel that connection. I didn't feel like I cared. Right. So interesting, some of this overlap. So, Jonathan, thank you so much for explaining. Now I would like to go back to my entire life and try and see every emotion that I've had. Was it mine? Was it someone else's? And now I know how to do that. So thank you.

[Jonathan Cohen]

You're welcome. I would love to hear from anyone who has either used this technique, tried it, are there stumbling blocks? Are there successes? What other strategies? Also post in the comments. Let us know how you navigate whether or not you're experiencing your emotions, whether you're experiencing someone else's. I know a lot of people use cord cutting as a strategy. There's also visualizations to put a field around yourself. You can find out more information on Mind Bialik's breakdown on Substack. We'll post and we'll provide some additional resources there as well.

[Mayim Bialik]

Jonathan and I are going to reveal the results of our what kind of empath are you? Test. So I know you're curious. Jonathan's probably going to be a lot more interesting than I am. I think I'm just sort of the garden variety, but you never know. You never know. So please head over to Substack for more on the types of empaths that you might be. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time.