← Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
Part Two: Is Consciousness Outside of The Brain?! Physicist and Inventor of the Microprocessor, Federico Faggin, explains how Science and Spirituality are Merging. His powerful awakened Revealed the Truth About Reality.
00:42:45
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- [00:00]
Mayim Bialik
Mind Breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep.
- [00:04]
Jonathan
Spring is in the air and so are all of the allergens that come with it. Spring allergens means you need more sleep, but there are a ton of factors that can prevent us from getting a good night's rest. Night sweats, back pain, feeling the person next to you when they roll over a million times. We were so excited to hear that Helix wanted to partner with us. I've had my Helix mattress for about five years now and I have been sleeping so much better. Jonathan and also our kids love their Helix mattresses and all night sweats, back pain, motion transfer. Those things are significantly better with a Helix mattress. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door which is so much fun. With free shipping in the US they have a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty. Plus they're happy with Helix Guarantee Rest easy With seamless returns and exchanges, the Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure that you're completely satisfied with your new mattress. Go to helix sleep.com breakdown for 27% off sitewide that's helixsleep do for 27% off site wide helixsleep.com breakdown with Verbocare help is always ready before, during and after your stay.
- [01:17]
Federico Faggin
We've planned for the plot twists so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind.
- [01:29]
Jonathan
Welcome to part two of our conversation with Italian physicist turned inventor Federico Fagin. He created Silicon gate Technology in 1968. He created the first commercial microprocessor at intel, created the touchpad touchscreen, and was a pioneer in artificial intelligence development. He put the first neural net on a chip in 1989 at Synaptics, which he founded. He's literally the guy responsible for all of the incredible things that we can do with with computers and technology. He created Silicon gate technology in 1968. That's what underlies all of modern computing. Why are we talking to him? Because he also had an incredible spiritual awakening and he is an expert on explaining the intersection of science and spirituality, how our consciousness and free will are fundamental to our existence here on the planet. And in the first part of our conversation with him, he explained how the universe was alive and conscious from its onset, how reality is not what we think it is and even not what we've been told to think it is. In part two of our conversation with Fedrico, we're going to talk about love and how it fits into a world that is ruled by capitalism. We're going to talk about the Next, evolution in medicine and how we can better understand oneness, consciousness and free will and, and how that can literally change our health. We're also going to talk about what he thinks about collective consciousness, the afterlife and simulation theory. He says we're in a game that we created. We cannot wait for you to hear part two of our conversation with Federico Fajin. Break it down. You talk about this rationality inspired by heart. You know, you talk about this incredible heart opening. And I can't help but think of the ways that we describe love in human terms, right? That we feel like we're going to like, float away and you have to bring yourself back to Earth when you're in love, right? You're floating, your head is in the clouds. And it's so interesting that we're talking about gravity being this grounding, this grounding universal quantum force that is saying there is a, a way to come back to a source, which I would hold is this, this oneness that we're talking about. I also love that you say that quantum physics actually doesn't describe an outer reality. It's describing the inner reality. And again, most of us would think, I'm not a physicist, I don't know what he's talking about, but the fact is we have had to create words. And you talk about this, and this is. You know what I love about this book? Before we get to your. Your next book is you take us from literally the beginning of evolution, the evolution of the universe and also the evolution of us.
- [04:19]
Federico Faggin
Where is life? Life, for scientism, starts with a living cell, which nobody knows how it could possibly be made by random variation in selection because there is no selection yet. But never mind that. But the point is that you start with cells. No, life is the first act of love, of one that wants to know itself and creates fields. Those fields are parts, all of one. Those fields are parts, whole of one, that field. Since one is holistic, he cannot create part of itself. It must create a totality of itself, but with a point of view, with the way in which he knew itself when he created that field, that self, knowing that is the identity, that is the identity of the field, and that remains forever in that field.
- [05:10]
Jonathan
And so what you describe is if you go from, however we got that first single celled organism, if you go from that, like we had to come from somewhere, meaning there was a mother of a mother of a mother, right? You can keep tracing it back and at a certain point your brain starts to bend, which is why in certain religious traditions, you don't get to study these things unless you have a certain level of intellectual sophistication because it will make you go crazy. Right. But at some point we got to the humans that we are. But you talk about the evolution of language. What was language? It was the decision by a group of some species to say we have more to communicate and we need more ways to do it. But it's completely arbitrary. And for those of us who speak more than one language, we know that it's an arbitrary collection of sounds and phonemes and gestures that we say we're just trying to describe meaning. And ultimately the thing that we have to get to is how do you perpetuate the species? Right. And for Homo sapiens, we get to insert love into that perpetuation of species. Right?
- [06:18]
Federico Faggin
Yeah, but, but you know, in this view, we created the first cells, we fields created the first cells to have an experience collectively in this reality that we are creating. So they, they don't come from variations in selection, randomness. There is no randomness. Randomness is only ignorance. That's it, only ignorance. But. And also the languages. Why do we need languages? Because we want to communicate the meaning that we find. But the meaning is endogenous. It comes from within, it doesn't come from without. Then it creates symbols which are structures outside in space and time. Those are structures that we create to manifest the meaning that we have inside. But the creativity is within. This in the spiritual part is not in the body and not even in the mind. The mind creates. The mind does computation about what we have learned. And so it makes prediction. But the predictions are not reality. Predictions are probabilities. The reality is created by our choices as spiritual beings that choose to go to manifest this thing or something else. So that is, that is very, again, very different than the way we imagine things. What we imagine things is that you know there is, you know there is, there are laws. And therefore the laws govern the world. But the laws are the byproduct. The laws are the law simply are saying that there is coherence within one and that coherence requires certain, certain laws, certain coherencies that are reflected into the mathematical laws. But the mathematical law don't dictate what has to happen.
- [08:13]
Mayim Bialik
Coming from an entrepreneurial background, being in business, business being a winner take all attitude whereby you have to corner markets and get as much market share as possible, get ahead of your competition. Where does love fit in to a notion of a new version of capitalism?
- [08:36]
Federico Faggin
Once we start to accept that cooperation is the only game in town, as opposed to competition, we had to rethink everything that we do. Because we start from kids, we start to compete, we are told to compete. I mean, the educational. Even in the family, we are sort of. Without even knowing. We're sort of set one against the other sometimes, right? And then schools, business, everything is about competition. And of course, competition leads to war and God knows how many wars we have lived through in our many lives. We basically have to change the entire structure of how we interact with each other. So I'm not there yet, meaning, I know that that has to occur. We have to figure out how to do this. But, you know, before we can do that, people have to understand that they are no longer bodies. Because if they think that they are bodies, automatically you go into the survival of the fittest, you know, and then we have to have an experience that you are not the body, you know, exactly like I had. And everybody can do that. The point is that the difference is that, you know, you know, I don't set myself as a special guy that, you know, you have to believe me. No, no, no, no, no. You know, everyone has to experience its own connection with one. Without that experience, we will not believe because the weight of, you know, our experience that we think that what, you know, this physical reality is the only reality, is so powerful that unless you have an even more powerful experience that tells you that that's not so, you're not going to change. You're not going to not giving it a chance. Given a chance, you won't even be
- [10:29]
Mayim Bialik
able to think about the new paradigm without the embodied experience of realizing there's another way of being.
- [10:35]
Jonathan
This is where people see the divide, that there are those of us that are going to compete and get ahead, and they're going to trample on all of the working class and all those other people, and they're going to be having their yachts and all the other things that rich people do. And then there's the spiritual people, who are going to be ridiculed, right. For believing that there's more than just what we see and what we experience. And there's this sort of divide.
- [10:59]
Federico Faggin
Yeah. But also the spiritual people are not, you know, they live in their own world. And so they, you know, they're kind of say, well, this stuff is not real. No, the reality is body, mind and spirit. Everything has to work together. And so both had to make a move toward joining together. Unfortunately, they stay separate, like two. You know, like quantum physics in general relativity. They don't want to come Together, you know, in some ways, but. Because everybody wants its own way. But no, we have to cross that divide. We have to merge. Merge is the right word. Fuse them. There is no longer a boundary between science and spirituality. And what science has that spirituality doesn't have much of is rationality. And the principles of experiments prove whatever theory you have. Because physics lives and dies on experiments. You may have the most beautiful theory, but if the theory makes a prediction that doesn't happen. The theory has to be scrapped. So the experiment is more fundamental in science than the theory in spirituality. You know, it has to be the same. We have to reach similar states. And we have to be able to talk about it. And we have to be able to see that they are us. You know, they're no longer objective like the outer reality, but they are subjective. But this subjectivity overlaps enough to be able to say, yeah, we are talking about the same thing. But it is, it comes from experience, inner experience instead of outer experience. That's where the joining can come. And that's why spirituality has to be the right word, not religion. Because there are 200 religions in the world. They better combine themselves first. Right? They cannot even agree with themselves. How can we create science and religion? I mean, you have to have 200 science and religions then, because all the religions are different. So. But there is only one physics in the world. So at least physics has already arrived to a level of unity. Because every. Everybody agrees because of the principles of physics are very clear. You know, you have a theory, Theory makes prediction. And you make an experiment. If the experiment, you know, says the theory is right. Well, even if the theory says something that appears crazy, reality is that crazy. That's exactly what has happened in the last hundred years. Because quantum physics makes predictions that nobody thought could exist. That kind of reality. Now we know that there is a reality much, much more, much more different than what we thought.
- [13:56]
Mayim Bialik
Mind Bialix breakdown is supported by bioptimizers.
- [13:59]
Jonathan
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- [15:24]
Mayim Bialik
Make 2026 the year you finally start sleeping again. My imbialics breakdown is supported by Bioptimizers.
- [15:31]
Jonathan
You know, I struggled to get good quality sleep and I just assumed it was stress. But as I learned during perimenopause and menopause, your hormones shift in a way that affects your magnesium levels. And low magnesium, it makes everything harder. Not just sleep, focus, mood, your tolerance for stress. That's why I have added Magnesium Breakthrough by by optimizers to my nightly routine. It's a blend of seven different forms of magnesium designed to support relaxation and overall sleep quality. Try it. See if you wake up more rested and refreshed. You've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain. BIOptimizers offers a 365 day, no questions asked money back guarantee. Magnesium Breakthrough is a huge breakthrough to improve hormonal balance, to help with focus, decrease brain fog, improve sleep hygiene. Overall. Bioptimizers makes it very easy. Jonathan, what do they get when they go to bioptimizers.com breaker and use the code breaker?
- [16:23]
Mayim Bialik
You get 15% off your entire order and a free bottle of Mask Bioptimizers,
- [16:28]
Jonathan
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Mayim Bialik
That's a $20 product free on top of your discount already.
- [16:39]
Jonathan
This is a limited time offer and while supplies last, you can't get it on Amazon, you can't get it in stores. This offer exists in one place. Our link, our code. That's it. So maybe you were already thinking about it this is the sign. Go to buyoptimizers.com breaker. Use the code breaker. Grab it before it's gone. Make 2026 the year you finally start sleeping again. You've talked a lot and your book includes so much about the differences between computers and humans and the differences between biological systems and those that are, let's say, being utilized for artificial intelligence. And what you talk about is some of the beauty that every interaction that cells have is so much more than the sum of its parts. You talk about homeostasis, you talk about metabolic processes, and it's not enough to say, oh, cells are more than the sum of their parts you're talking about. And again, you can think about this on a human level. It's not just the individuals that are more than the sum of their parts. It's the interactions. The processes that occur when these units interact is so much more than you could even imagine in the greatest fantasy. So can you talk about the cell being this microscopic, you know, beautiful quantum classical system, but the human being, this macroscopic one, and what that means practically for us?
- [17:53]
Federico Faggin
Basically, you know, if you look at the organization of the body, the organization of our body is we are 30 to 50 trillion cells. And each cell, as I mentioned even earlier, is a part whole of the entire organism because they all came out of a single cell. And each cell, or these 30 plus trillion that we have, has the same genome. So it has the same fundamental capacity to express as the original cell that created the entire organism. That's amazing. I mean, right now there are in quantum biology and also in advanced biology, there are people that can reverse. A cell that is specialized, can be made to be a stem cell, which is like a plenipotentiary cell that can create any other cell, revert in a sense, to become closer to the original cell that create, created the entire organism. Can you do that with a computer? Is a computer organized the same way? Not even close. Not even close. A computer is made of switches. On, off, on, off, on, off. That's it. At the best, the computer can know its own state, which is, I'm open or I'm closed. That's it. There is nothing else for the computer. A cell has the potential to understand the other cells because they have the same making. You can explain the operation like a machine by deterministic things. But in living system, the cells make decisions which are highly probabilistic. You can only predict probability because these cells are quantum and classical system. Each cell doesn't work with the principle of classical physics. They work with the principle of quantum physics primarily. And then certain processes are closer to classical and other are purely quantum. And we do not understand how a cell works as if as an informational system. That's why my book, I speak about live information, which is a different type of information between quantum information and classical information that information can explain will in the future be able to explain how living cells are informational systems, not biochemical systems. We have studied cells as if they were biochemistry. No, not even close. You know, we can only explain a tiny bit. But cells are connected directly. All our cells are connected with the field that we are. So when the field that we are communicating with the body, it doesn't communicate with a piece of the system. It communicates in parallel with the entire body. So the potentiality to self healing, for example, by people that are developed spiritually, are enormous. But yet we have to start by changing the idea of what we are. If we think that we are the body, you know, that is, you know, the only intervention has to come from the outside. But, you know, the field that we are can affect the body in ways that we have still to find out.
- [21:31]
Jonathan
So if we approach the cell and the biological systems as not just biochemical processes and those that obey the laws
- [21:37]
Federico Faggin
of classical physics as informational systems.
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Jonathan
Right. If they are informational systems, this would be support for the notion that Bruce Lipton talks about that the cell is operating as a microcosm of the entire organism.
- [21:51]
Federico Faggin
You know, we're talking about holographic systems where the part is like the whole.
- [21:57]
Jonathan
So changing the environment of the cell as it were, creating more positivity, whatever that looks like on a cellular level is what has the potential, you're saying, to then heal the body in ways that, let's say Western medicine may not be able to touch.
- [22:15]
Federico Faggin
And right now we have to do it from the outside because we don't know how. We don't have developed enough of our own, you know, our, our own soul, if you want to call it that way, but our own spiritual aspects.
- [22:28]
Jonathan
So the next sort of evolution in medicine would be for all of us to have a better collective understanding of this sort of oneness and the deeper reality that that consciousness and free will are providing. So that even medicine could be affected by the ways that we approach the cellular systems. It's fascinating.
- [22:49]
Federico Faggin
That's right. And the way that you approach the cellular system is you start with love again. Because, you know, and, and the medicine that we practice today moves away from love because it's all about machines. We Are, you know, we are repairing a machine and that's it, you know, and the doctor that looks at the computer doesn't even look at you and, you know, ask questions and print, you know, types on a computer.
- [23:16]
Jonathan
This is why people are going to energy workers and healers, which some of them are legitimate and some of them are not. But the notion that there is a spiritual solution to what is going on, that is presenting itself as a biological one.
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Federico Faggin
And sometimes it works in ways that appear to be miracles, and they're not miracles because it shows that there is something that can come from the inside out, not only from the outside in. And beside, when I say outside in, you know, the in is a different one because when I say from the outside in, there is nothing in other than organs, which is still outside. This is part of the outside in my meaning, because the inside is not in the body. The inside is the inner reality or meaning of qualia and meaning. That's not in the body. It's in a field that controls the body. Okay? So unfortunately, the words can deceive us.
- [24:19]
Mayim Bialik
We hear a lot from people who listen, who are trying to understand this, right? They're trying to change their life. They may be suffering in this moment. What I'm hearing and what I believe to be true is that the first step to accessing a spiritual awakening, to accessing the ability to start to heal oneself through adjusting the field, is to start to change the mindset. First, to believe it is possible, and second, to start to understand the mechanism that we're actually changing something. When we start to invoke love, when we start to meditate, when we start to have a belief that something is possible, when we're not just wishful thinking, we're actually changing the frequency that is everything that surrounds us, which then impacts the cell.
- [25:05]
Federico Faggin
In my experience, the first step is to take responsibility for what happens in your life, okay? And that's the lesson that I learned by being CEO of a company, in fact, more than one company, where the good and the bad that happens in the company in one way or another, I had a lot to do by doing something or even more by not doing something when I should have done something. That is an idea that in the beginning was hard to grasp because it is mostly by not doing what you should be doing that you attract to yourself suffering and whatever, okay? For example, it was not taking care of myself, for example, my inner reality, that I became very estranged for myself and I was unhappy with my life. Okay? For example, it was not because I Did something wrong. It's because I didn't do what I was supposed to do. And so it is very important to take that responsibility. And it was exactly because I have taken responsibility on my life that when I was suffering, I say, somehow I created that for myself. I didn't look outside, somebody to blame for my state. But I say, what did I do? I want to know what did I do to create this to myself? Who am I? Why is that? Why is that going? Why is that going on with that sense, with that sense of responsibility? This is my life. I am in charge of my life. That very important, because if you don't go there, you will always find outside. The problems that affects you. They always come from the outside. That's why you go to the outside to find the cure. But once you know that what you know, your happiness or not, depends on you. From your interiority, from your conscious self to your inner experience, the meaning, the love that you have within for yourself and from others, that stuff, then you can find the solution. But if you don't, you had to reach there first. Otherwise you will always look at some kind of magic inside or outside to solve your problem. But it's not you.
- [27:30]
Jonathan
We'd like to talk a little bit about your new book, which we just got a little taste of. And one of the quotes that I wanted you to talk about as you introduce us to what this next book is. We're not matter, we're not mind, we are spirit. That is meaning, love, joy and peace. And if we want to have a better future, we must all radically change direction together. And to do this, we must first change our minds about who we are. I inverted those intentionally. Talk a little bit about what this means and what this new book is going to introduce us to that is not covered in irreducible, which I can't imagine there's anything left because I love this so much. But tell us what, what we can expect.
- [28:13]
Federico Faggin
Well, I mean, my next book is actually not in English yet. I mean, I had translated, it will be out in hopefully six months or so.
- [28:21]
Jonathan
Even people who speak English might think that this is not written in English. It's very dense.
- [28:30]
Federico Faggin
That idea is an idea that will be my fourth book is an idea that the theory that I have can actually be explained very effectively with the concepts of body, mind and spirit, which I also illustrated earlier. You know, where you have. Essentially you can, you know, these three aspects are not separate, they're not separable. But so when we concentrate with one, we can not lose sight that the other two are also present. We tend, when we tend to concentrate on one, we tend to separate the others because the, you know, the way we write and the way we think tends to, you know, it tends to work that way because we focus on something. But in reality, body, mind and spirit are three in inseparable aspects which have overlaps. Like I mentioned Before, I mentioned 6, over 6, 3 overlaps plus the overlap in the center, which is all three together, which is the, the essence of one. Essentially, that's the white light, the love, peace, joy, meaning. All that stuff is where we want to get to, you know, within ourselves in communicating and so on, to get to that meaning that unites, that brings us back to one. The next book is beyond the Invisible, and beyond the Invisible is actually a conversation so it's easier to read and allows me to repeat things in different contexts without being accused or repeating myself. You know, the context determines the meaning, you know, I mean, even particles, you know, when, you know, the property of the particles depend on the interaction that the particles has. So the reality is not built with things that are absolute. Everything is relative to each other.
- [30:28]
Mayim Bialik
This episode is sponsored by Wandering Jews, an open door media brand.
- [30:33]
Jonathan
If you've ever found yourself feeling like you have more questions than answers, you're in good company. The Jewish people have been like that for thousands of years. Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam is a podcast where two of today's most dynamic Jewish voices, Michal Bittone and Noam Weissman, dig into the biggest questions about life through a Jewish lens. It's the kind of conversation where you'll laugh, learn something new, and probably shout in disagreement at least once. Michal and Noam tackle the tough topics like anti Semitism in America, what happens after we die, and the future of religion with guests like Bret Stephens, Michael Rapoport and Sarah Hurwitz. And this past month, in honor of Jewish American Heritage Month, they've been celebrating some of the Jewish lives and institutions that have shaped American life, from food to music and comedy. Thoughtful, joyful, and always honest. That's Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam, a production of Unpacked. Find it on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube and make sure to hit subscribe. Check out Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam podcast and subscribe at Unpacked Bio nmx. We talk a lot about exceptional phenomenon. We talk a lot about extrasensory perception. On this podcast we really try and understand the science of many things that a lot of people would consider outside of science. I Want to ask you a few things and I want you to give us your most honest answer, both from your scientific and your spiritual perspective. Okay, I'm going to start with kind of a softball one. Collective consciousness. Is there a collective consciousness?
- [32:03]
Federico Faggin
There is a collective consciousness. I mean, I mean, you know, in a sense we are a collective consciousness. We are fields of fields of fields of fields of fields. So we exist with a comprehension which is the, all the comprehensions of lower levels, you know, like atoms are more than the, you know, than the parts that they compose them. And the nucleons are more than the, the protons and neutrons, but then the neutrons are more than the quarks and the, and the gluons and you know, this kind of thing.
- [32:34]
Jonathan
What happens when we die? Is there an afterlife? Does consciousness exist after we die?
- [32:40]
Federico Faggin
Yeah, I think that I believe the essence of the near death experiences of which there are hundreds of thousands, you know, known and hundred hundreds of books written about. So people don't believe they should read at least one or one or two of those books and have a sense of it because they, they are, you know, their coherence of what happens is so strong that, you know, they, and, and those are people that don't have the, the body doesn't work anymore, the brain doesn't work. And you know, they have extraordinary experiences that changed their life. How can that be that you, you know, you have an experience that is so powerful that changes your life and you were not even functioning as a body. I mean, if we are the body, that's a, you know, that needs to be explained. And you cannot explain it by, you know, just eliminating it like scientism does. You know, if you don't, there's something, if something that you cannot prove something, forget it. It doesn't exist. Well, that's, that's, that's too convenient.
- [33:46]
Jonathan
Are we in a simulation? What do you think about simulation theory?
- [33:50]
Federico Faggin
No, we are not in a simulation. But this reality, however, is mostly virtual reality in the sense that. But it's a virtual reality that we create. Now. We're not in a simulator created by somebody else and we are just little avatars there thinking that we are, you know, that we are what we are. No, that's not. These, this is a game that we have created and we are in the game that we created. So we are actor, but also the creators of this game and we learn from this game to create other games. So I mean, this is just, you know, but a lot of this reality that we think is Real is actually a construction information that is experienced as a reality in the field. So it doesn't exist here. It exists in the field in our consciousness. But because the quantum states of the field are not separable from the field, I cannot say that this is virtual. Virtual reality is what you get with a computer, for example, full virtual reality, where the bits of the computer are entirely our creations. They don't exist. We have created them and we are the ones, our conscious, the one that gives reality to it. When we put a headset and we see, you know, space and objects and things going around and we look around and looks like is a real reality and it's all done by bits of the computer. That is virtual reality. That does not exist in the same sense that the game that I was talking about earlier exist.
- [35:38]
Mayim Bialik
We create our experience, therefore we can adjust our experience. So in that way we can adjust the game. Some posit that the fields that all consciousness is a part of were created by some external force, which would be the potential for the simulation. Not that our personal experiences are simulated, but that the entire creation of consciousness and all of the fields that make up it may have an external creator.
- [36:10]
Federico Faggin
It's like, you know, my body is being created by a cell. And every cell on my body is a copy of that cell that created this body. Okay, so I'm self created. There is not a creator. I'm a part whole of one. So I'm indivisible from one. So I'm one in some way, but not one in the sense that I'm all of one. I'm a part whole of one. It's an holographic principle. It's not made like computers are made. Machines are not made that way. They're not made of parts whole, they're made of parts.
- [36:51]
Mayim Bialik
They are separable about the evolution of technology. You created the microprocessor before you had your big spiritual awakening. And so it's a two part question. One, do you feel like that information was given to you in a way to have that breakthrough to create this world changing technology? And two, how do you see the evolution of technology as it relates to our experience of ourselves, to either know ourselves? Some will say it's helped us know ourselves better. Having conversations like this, being able to share information while at the same time it's distracted us from ourselves, Increasing the ability to check out, to have digital distraction and create companies that their sole goal is to take every moment of our free time and attention.
- [37:39]
Federico Faggin
Perhaps my biggest invention was the invention of the Silicon Gate. Technology that allowed to make a microprocessor that I did my first job when I came in this country. I was 26, working for Fairchild. And that technology was five times faster than the previous technology was reliable. You could put twice as many transistors and it had about 500 times less leakage current. So you could make dynamic random access memories. You couldn't do conato memories before, but with this technology you could do everything to make a computer in a single chip. And the first step was the memories dynamic ram and the microprocessor. Microprocessor also used dynamic RAM inside, okay, because the static RAM were too many transistors. So that is how I did this thing. And it was a number of intuitions that allow me to do that and then of course, a lot of work. But also the intuition was that the microprocessor were able to were a new step in the evolution of computers that would allow with this technology to miniaturize and have computers everywhere and so on. And so that was something that I understood and I wanted to really create as fast as possible. And in the early days, did not understand the management didn't understand the microprocessor. We are the future. They thought memories were the future computers, the big computers. They did not understand that little thing could be a big thing. We have now in one chip. We have now computers that couldn't even fit in a skyscraper, for Christ's sake. I mean, in a chip like this now. So I decided my second generation microprocessor, the 8080 of intel, it took me nine months to convince them, my management, to let me do it. And then when I done that, they were six times faster than better architecture, done faster than the previous ones. They still were wasting their time to get the next one. So I decided to start my own company, Said, that's it, I have enough of this. So I started my first company, Zilog, developed the Z80 that became the bestseller. I mean, it's still in production today, almost 50 years after it was introduced. But that, compared to what I'm doing now, is like child play in a sense. It's a child play in the sense that it only covers this stuff, you know, this stuff. But we are beyond measure, you know, I mean, that's what excites me is that if we wake up to our own reality, the machines that we do is, you know, already the brain, you know, our brain has about 100 trillion parameters. ChatGPT has 3 trillion parameters. So and our brain consumes 20 watts power. Nobody can build a computer better than the brain, but not even close. Because our brain can do things that no computer in existence can do, even by itself, never mind by the connection with the field that we are. Because it's like having a programmer in a conscious being connected with the brain. And the brain is just a machine. The brain is a machine. So the machine does what the programmer wants, is on board. All is on board. So it's a, you know, it's a new world. So technology, just use the way we use technology today, without a sense of who we are, can become dangerous. And that's the danger that I see is both in the nuclear technology that, you know now an arsenal of tens of thousands of atomic bombs that any crazy person could use. So that's a very dangerous, you know, very dangerous thing to have, you know, sitting around. And of course, AI will become a major problem or a major. Or a major abundance if it is used right. But to be used right, we need to change the idea of what we are. Because if we think that we are here to compete and to beat the less fortunate of us, that's not the way the technology will help. It will actually help those guys to destroy our humanity. And that's not the game that I would like to see.
- [42:37]
Jonathan
Federico Fagin, it's really such a pleasure to get to speak to you. We're so grateful for your time.
- [42:42]
Federico Faggin
Thank you. It's a pleasure.
- [42:47]
Mayim Bialik
I'm curious how you heard his explanation of how the cell is impacted by changing our perspective and changing the state around us.
- [42:59]
Jonathan
Look, I think this is a really important addition to so many of our conversations about, in particular, the kind of loving kindness meditation, the kind of focus on manifesting or placing yourself in an environment that feels like you've already achieved it. In the meditation that I led people in, that's over on Substack, you know, that's what we talked about. Imagine something beautiful and create the. The emotional state as if you're there. It's very, very powerful. And I love how many different places we're getting for people to pull from support for that. Whether it's Bruce Lipton, you know, from this more kind of, you know, cell biology perspective, or it's Federico Fagin from this, you know, quantum and like micro. Microcosmic and macrocosmic, you know, quantum collective consciousness sort of perspective. I'm super fascinated with this concept, you know, of love. Again, that's just the word you put on it. Like, don't think about how you feel about the person that you're dating. And, oh, well, I'm in love with them. What does that have to do with it? We're talking about the state of feeling joy, peace, serenity, that you are loved, that you are taken care of. That's a different kind of, you know, what he's talking about as almost like a fundamental, you know, foundation of the universe is that feeling that we were, you know, and these are the religious concepts. We're created out of love. Right.
- [44:29]
Mayim Bialik
His description reminds me a lot of, like, the first time I sensed energy where my palm was tingling, and all of a sudden I had an experience that was so foreign to how I had grown up. And anything that I had experienced in the past that I couldn't reconcile it with my understanding of reality. And when he describes that in order to change and come up with solutions that may not be purely based on competition, that may be more cooperative, which we can't really imagine right now because our entire society is based on. Well, if I get this, then you don't get that. And anything else is seen as un capitalist. And it's described that capitalism is not the best option, but it's better than all the others.
- [45:18]
Jonathan
Yeah. In some cases. I think you have to separate out these conversations. And I really appreciated your question, especially to ask the creator of what we use as a microprocessor and the phone that we hold in our hand to ask that person, you know, what would you have been like if you did not have a desire to compete, to get ahead, to run a company, like all those things. But I think what he was saying also is, you know, and the question I didn't get to ask him, but I kind of feel like I can imagine the answer, you know, if he didn't create the microprocessor, would someone else have. The answer is. Is yes, of course. But would another human being have his particular awakening experience? No, that was his alone. But as he indicated, that part is indicative of the entire whole. Right. And that experience is sourced in what he calls one.
- [46:13]
Mayim Bialik
Yes. And when he talks about having that experience that is not able to be reconciled with everything else we understand to have that visceral, powerful, emotional and intellectual change, that's the first step in solving other problems. When you say we have to keep these things divided is because not enough people have had that awakening to then imagine a world without the current incentive structures that exist right now.
- [46:44]
Jonathan
Totally, totally.
- [46:46]
Mayim Bialik
And what I love about this conversation and about many of the others is that people start to paint an understanding and sort of shine a light on how they've done it. And others can start to do it as well simply by hearing these and opening up to the possibility that there is more. When we had Deepak Chopra on and he said, just by listening to this conversation, you are starting to change. It can feel like an overstatement, but if you've only seen the world in one particular way and you start to imagine it in a different way, that's the first step to having those visceral awakening experiences.
- [47:26]
Jonathan
This book, as I said, it's incredibly dense, but is really. It was a wonderful, you know, a wonderful exploration, literally, of exactly what he says. Consciousness, life, computers, and human nature.
- [47:37]
Mayim Bialik
We're gonna have more about this conversation. Reflections as they simmer for Mayim and I. We're going to talk about how each one of us can have their own spiritual awakenings. We tell stories about different ways people wake up and have these profound moments where they just feel a connection to something greater. Over on Substack, join us. Mayim Bialik's breakdown on Substack.
- [48:01]
Jonathan
And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.
- [48:04]
Federico Faggin
It's Mayim Bialik's breakdown. She's gonna break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two, and now she's gonna break down. So break down. She's gonna break it down.