← Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
PART TWO: Key Supplements & The Science Behind Why They Work | Dr. Rhonda Patrick
01:01:55
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- [00:00]
Jonathan Cohen
Mind breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep.
- [00:04]
Mayim Bialik
Spring is in the air and so are all of the allergens that come with it. Spring allergens means you need more sleep, but there are a ton of factors that can prevent us from getting a good night's rest. Night sweats, back pain, feeling the person next to you when they roll over a million times. We were so excited to hear that Helix wanted to partner with us. I've had my Helix mattress for about five years now and I have been sleeping so much better. Jonathan and also our kids love their Helix mattresses and all of those issues. Night sweats, back pain, motion transfer. Those things are significantly better with a Helix mattress. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door, which is so much fun. With free shipping in the US they have a 120 night sleep trial and limited lifetime warranty plus their Happy With Helix guarantee. Rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The Happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk free customer first experience designed to ensure that you're completely satisfied with your new Mattress. Go to helixsleep do slbreakdown for 27% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com breakdown for 27% off site wide. Helixsleep.com breakdown. Hi, I'm Bialik.
- [01:16]
Jonathan Cohen
I'm Jonathan Cohen and welcome to part
- [01:17]
Mayim Bialik
two of our conversation with scientist and health educator Dr. Rhonda Patrick. Make sure to follow us on May Bialik's breakdown at Substack for never before seen clips and and episodes and also some fun behind the scenes stuff including from today's episode. As a reminder, Dr. Rhonda Patrick is a scientist and health educator recognized for leadership in nutrition, aging and disease prevention, specialist in omega 3 fatty acids, mitochondrial metabolism. We're gonna talk about so many different aspects of nutrition and also things that you can avoid to keep yourself optimally healthy. In part two of our conversation with Dr. Rhonda Patrick, break it down. I have a question as someone who happens to be vegan, but I think it's a question that everybody wants to have your answer on. What's up with protein? Like, are we getting too much? Which is what many of us have been told, like, chill out, don't worry. Like you're getting protein. There's protein in pasta, there's protein in rice and don't freak out. Then we went through a phase of like Jonathan eating his body weight in protein twice a day. There was a huge emphasis, especially among, I heard it among like men of like, all the protein, all the meat. Also add creatine, like Eat collagen, like be a hunk of protein. What's the story with protein and what is the perspective for women versus men? Is it a similar conversation? I need to know.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, yeah. No, it's funny, there's been, you know, in the aging field, which is where I'm sort of in, it's also been this thing where for the longest time, well, you don't want too much protein because that's gonna accelerate aging, it's gonna increase cancer risk. And this is largely done in animal studies like rodents. And so and there's lots of mechanism work there. And so, you know, you're kind of thinking, oh well, protein's aging you. That's because it's activating growth pathways and that's involved in cancer. And you know, so you wanna, you wanna kind of dial back on the protein.
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Mayim Bialik
This is also animal based protein. Correct? A lot of these studies were animal based protein. Cause most countries that, you know, get enough protein or actually not getting it from animal sources.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes. So except the United States, animal based protein has a high concentration of essential amino acids, particularly leucine. And that is the sort of switch for some of these growth pathways, like the MTOR pathway, but also IGF1. These are both two pathways that are sort of involved in the aging process. So yes, to some degree that was kind of like animal, animal protein. And then there's like all this human data that was observational data that came out that was looking at all cause mortality, cancer related mortality. And it looked like, oh, if you ate protein from plants, you had a lower all cause mortality, you had lower cancer related mortality compared to the meat eaters. Well, it turns out like after then adjusting and looking at all these other healthy, healthy or unhealthy lifestyle factors, the meat eaters, if they had no unhealthy lifestyle factors, so they weren't overweight, they weren't sedentary, they, they weren't excessively drinking or smoking. They had the same mortality as the vegan. So what it comes down to, and, and when you ask me what about protein? So look, protein is essential, right? We need protein to make proteins in our body. Everything, everything that we're doing, all, everything that's going on, our body is from proteins. And proteins require amino acids to be made. Our muscle also requires protein as well. And that's probably what most people are thinking about when they think about protein. They think about their muscle. And the RDA for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight. And that is probably where you're hearing A lot of people say we're not getting enough protein. And the reason for that is because when that RDA was set. Gosh, how many decades ago? I don't remember. Quite a few.
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Mayim Bialik
Yeah.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
When that was set, the studies that were.
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Mayim Bialik
It has to be close to a century ago.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I mean, no, I think it was like, oh, gosh, was it the 30s, 40s? Yeah, I think. I don't know. Well, someone can look that up.
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Mayim Bialik
Yes, go ahead.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But the point is that the studies that were done to, basically, the way that RDA was determined was, okay, how much amino acids can we lose in a day without going into a negative balance? Right. Because we don't actually store amino acids like we store triglycerides. We store fat in the form of triglycerides, or we store glucose in the form of glycogen. Right. We don't store amino acids. Well, our muscles actually are the biggest storage of them. Right. But you don't want to be breaking down your muscle tissue to get amino acids. And so that was determined based on 1941. 1941. All right, 1941.
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Mayim Bialik
Because in the middle of World War II, they were like, let's work on this.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So basically, the studies that were done were to determine whether or not that was enough, how much protein you needed to take in to prevent, like, basically your body from. From losing more protein. And it turns out that the studies were kind of flawed and the guesses were sort of overestimated. And so more studies have been done recently with newer technologies that have determined, actually, it's more like 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight is what we actually need.
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Mayim Bialik
That's more.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's more than 0.8, right?
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Mayim Bialik
Yes.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And so that's kind of like the. I would say the minimal amount of protein now, depending on how active you are, those requirements go up. If you are physically active and eat
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Mayim Bialik
the dog's protein, he's leaning into his body, he's like, I'm already not getting enough today.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, that's where it goes up. If you're getting. If you're physically active, you want to get about between 1.2 to 1.6. It's more like 1.6 grams per kilogram body weight of protein. And that's largely based on studies looking at gaining muscle mass and strength as well. So they've been randomized, controlled trials, giving people either 1.2, 1.6 kilogram grams per kilogram body weight of protein, and then looking at muscle mass gains and muscle strength gains and giving Them more protein along with working out and exercising. It seems like the 1.6 is better. So.
- [07:20]
Mayim Bialik
And also, I just want to reiterate when you say protein, because of the society we live in, I automatically think of like, meat, meat, meat, meat. And I think of all the things that are in meat that a lot of people, people don't want. But you're not just talking about meat, you're talking about for people who want to eat fish. It could be fish. And there are other ways to get protein. And like, there are protein powders and things. So it doesn't just have. Because like the notion of like eating meat five times a day. Right. Like, doesn't sound attractive for many reasons.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Right.
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Mayim Bialik
But that's not the only way that we're talking about getting protein.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No, absolutely not. And yeah, and that's another sort of, I would say, shift in the, the way like, of thinking in terms of protein. It used to be like, oh, you have to get all this protein from like, you know, a meat source or an animal source of protein. And you know, vegans and vegetarians, oh, they're just so protein deficient. Well, it turns out, you know, people that are, that are paying attention and eating multiple different types of protein and or supplementing can actually gain as much muscle from the same amount of protein as people that are doing eating meat. And, and so that's not. Again, that was a big change. A pretty recent, actually.
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Jonathan Cohen
I would say the caveat to that is you can't really get it from vegetables and beans alone. You need some form of tofu, tempeh, protein powder. It's very difficult to only get that level of protein from vegetables and legumes.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Well, you have to, like, there's different types of plants that are grains. Yeah, quinoa. Yeah. You know, there's different types of plants that have different amino acid compositions. And so.
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Mayim Bialik
But I don't rely on vegetables for my protein. Not at all.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's gotta be, it's gotta be beans,
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Mayim Bialik
nuts, it's gotta be things like that. And yeah, there's some in like rice and pasta and things like that. But no, it doesn't come from, from vegetables. But the fact is, as we talk about, it's very carb heavy. Like my protein intake is so carb heavy. Like, you know, my friend Denise who helped me kind of completely become vegan, she was like, when she became vegan, she gained 20 pounds in like two months because she was eating nuts and seeds all day. And she's like, healthy and she looked down, she was like, what just happened? So, yeah, the. The notion is, like, depending on where this protein source is coming, it can be very high in fat, it can be very high in carbs. So it's definitely a balance.
- [09:36]
Jonathan Cohen
I think the other conversation that's happening alongside the protein conversation is, should everyone be on creatine?
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I know, right? I mean, like.
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Mayim Bialik
I mean, you sprinkled it all around the room.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I mean, I did.
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Mayim Bialik
I, like, I was.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I dosed up today because I wanted my brain to be working. But. Yeah.
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Mayim Bialik
What is creatine? Tell us what creatine is.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, I mean, so creatine, you probably think of creatine, you think of the bodybuilder muscle.
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Mayim Bialik
100%, right. It's in a big white plastic tub, whatever it is. Right.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And then I always think about the water rate I'm gonna gain like that. Like, those are the images that I think about when I think of creatine. Well, creatine is. It's really important for energy production, and I don't want to get, like, too much into that mechanism, but essentially what you need to know is that it is important for energy production. And so.
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Mayim Bialik
But is it a thing that's in our body already?
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It is something that's in our. It's in our muscles. It's in our body. Yes. It's in our brain. We make it in our brain. We make it in our muscles. Sorry. We make it in our liver. We make it in our brain, not in our muscles. Our muscles take it up from. From what's made in our liver. Our muscles are what crave it the most. Right. Especially because we're. When we're working out and working our muscles, then the creatine is really coming from either what we're making in our liver to our muscles or from what we're supplementing.
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Mayim Bialik
So.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So we're not. Essentially, creatine is especially vegan. Vegans are not getting enough of it because creatine is found in muscle meat. So people that are eating meat are getting a dietary source of creatine.
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Mayim Bialik
Right.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But vegans and vegetarians are not getting that creatine.
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Mayim Bialik
So it's vegan to take it. It's an organic compound.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes. It's synthesized. Yeah. It's not like being isolated from, like, cow. Yeah. So what is it doing? So the muscles are really greedy and your muscles take it up because it's. It's, you know, helps with energy production. Right. But aside from that, other organs in the body also need it, like the brain. And that's why the Brain also makes its own creatine pool. And when you get like a higher amount of creatine, if you dose, if you're taking a higher amount of creatine, whatever your muscles don't take up, your muscles get the first pick because they're very, very greedy. Then creatine's left over to kind of get into the brain. And so people that are taking about 5 grams of creatine a day, which is what I used to take, take, it's enough for your muscles. That's pretty much what your muscles are happy with. And when I say your muscles, like, why do your muscles want it? It's not necessarily going to bulk you up. It's not like protein, it doesn't. Creatine doesn't increase muscle protein synthesis. You're not going to, you know, get bigger muscles unless you work out. What it does do is helps you work out harder because you, you have like, you're able to basically get more energy and more power. So the volume of your workouts are better.
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Mayim Bialik
Now it feels like you're giving me
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
a steroid, but it's not, it's not a steroid.
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Mayim Bialik
Am I gonna be like grunting?
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's all, it's all the effort, right? Yeah, I, I definitely was grunting yesterday morning. I had my strength training. Not.
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Mayim Bialik
So you said that you used to
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
take 5 milligrams, 5 grams. I used to take 5 grams because I wanted it for my, my workouts.
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Mayim Bialik
And now you take.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And now I take 10.
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Mayim Bialik
Every day, all the time, no matter what.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Every day, all the time, no matter what. Baseline is 10. And I do that because of the brain effects. So there's been studies now coming out that it improves cognitive function. It might be important for brain aging. Depression is another one that's coming out again. Energy production in the brain, very important. But you have to get above that 5 grams to have spillover right to the brain. But there's an even bigger, I would say dose that I take on days when I don't sleep well. So if I'm traveling, I'm jet lagged, I'm in like the other part of the country and I have to give a talk at like 8:00am, which is, you know, 5:00am My biological time in those sorts of scenarios. I actually take 15 to 20 grams. And it's amazing what it does to me.
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Mayim Bialik
No, it's like speed without the speed.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's like speed without the speed. You're like, it's like caffeine without the caffeine.
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Mayim Bialik
Where can you Abuse it.
- [13:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I mean, I wouldn't take much more than that. So it's not, like, addictive. It doesn't. I don't feel like I don't wake up in the morning.
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Mayim Bialik
You know, it is addictive being alert
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
and, like, on target, like, in the context. It only really works in the context of a background deprivation, something stressful, like sleep deprivation.
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Mayim Bialik
Right.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And this has been shown. I mean, yeah, Right.
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Mayim Bialik
But I'm, you know, I'm kind of curious, like.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, it's been shown in studies. And so what. It's what? I guess, you know, the question is, okay, well, how much stress in your life? A lot of us do have a lot of stress. So I think it makes. It does make a difference. Right. But it helps. It helps. You don't need as much sleep, even. So this has been shown in studies. And in fact, one of my vegan friends was like. She messaged me back. She's like, this is. I don't need as much sleep, and I have all this energy. What's going on? And I'm like, well, you weren't getting any dietary creatine because, you know, you don't eat any meat and you weren't supplementing with it. So you were only relying. And you work out. I'm like, you're only relying on what your liver can make, which is not that much. So it really kind of changed her life.
- [14:32]
Mayim Bialik
She was Bruce Banner, now she's Hulk.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What happens is creatine. I'm talking about the role it plays in energy production, but it also plays another role. Interestingly, it plays a role in that whole methylation process as well that we think about. Folate, choline, and creatine does it too. So creatine can also help turn homocysteine back into methionine. It can help with gene expression. So methylations are like carbon, Carbon with three hydrogens. They can basically change the way our genes are activated. You need methylation groups to have that happen, and creatine helps with that. So I think when you free up creatine, when it's like, okay, the muscles aren't using every last bit of it, because now you're giving it an exogenous source through supplementation, then other things can happen. Right? Other things like the methylation process can happen. Right. So changing the way genes are activated in the brain, but in the context of stress, stress requires a lot of energy. It depletes your creatine. And so in that background, giving your body the extra creatine will give you more energy. Because that energy that you would have had otherwise was taken because the stress is very energy consuming.
- [15:38]
Jonathan Cohen
This episode is sponsored by Wondering Jews, an open door media brand.
- [15:44]
Mayim Bialik
If you've ever found yourself feeling like you have more questions than answers, you're in good company. The Jewish people have been like that for thousands of years. Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam is a podcast where two of today's most dynamic Jewish voices, Michal Bittone and Noam Weissman, dig into the biggest questions about life through a Jewish lens. It's the kind of conversation where you'll laugh, learn something new, and probably shout in disagreement at least once. Michal and Noam tackle the tough topics like antisemitism in America, what happens after we die, and the future of religion with guests like Bret Stephens, Michael Rope Port, and Sarah Hurwitz. And this past month, in honor of Jewish American Heritage Month, they've been celebrating some of the Jewish lives and institutions that have shaped American life, from food to music and comedy. Thoughtful, joyful and always honest. That's Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam, a production of Unpacked. Find it on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube and make sure to hit subscribe. Check out Wondering Jews with Michal and Noam podcast and subscribe@unpacked.com bio NMX
- [16:45]
Jonathan Cohen
My Ambiox breakdown is supported by Bio Optimizers.
- [16:49]
Mayim Bialik
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- [18:13]
Jonathan Cohen
Make 2026 the year you finally start sleeping again.
- [18:18]
Mayim Bialik
Well, also, I'm thinking just in terms of the creatine conversation, how many of those things diagnostically would earn you a prescription for an ssri?
- [18:25]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Right.
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Mayim Bialik
I can't sleep, I don't have energy, which means I'm not working out. So then you're not generating any positive feel good chemicals.
- [18:33]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Right? Right.
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Mayim Bialik
You're not going to feel good about yourself. You don't have the kind of like oomph to get up and go. Many doctors would see that and be like, you're for me. You know, you're a woman of a certain age. Like take an SSRI and you'll feel better.
- [18:47]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Right, Right.
- [18:48]
Mayim Bialik
And how many people are disappointed by that because there's other biochemical things going on that we don't even know about.
- [18:54]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Right.
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Mayim Bialik
It's fascinating. Jonathan had a list of rapid fire things and I just want to mention that the first three items are this. Alcohol, coffee, golf course. Go.
- [19:06]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, don't, don't, don't live on a golf course and sip your, and sip your wine. Yeah, no, there was, there's a really interesting study that came out recently that living near a golf course dramatically increases the risk of Parkinson's disease. Because golf courses are notoriously sprayed with Roundup glyphosate. I mean, they're, I mean that's like you look at a golf course, like, I don't know that I can find a weed like at any golf course I've ever, you know, been to. So the, the pesticide exposure is, I would say, the most classical way of inducing Parkinson's, like symptoms in animals. I mean, that's like what researchers do to induce Parkinson's is they give like paraquat rotenone. Right. These things cause mitochondrial toxicity. Your mitochondria are the energy producing organelles in your cells. They cause it in the, in, in the dopaminergic neurons in the, in the substantia negra. Right. Part of the brain. So what's, what the, the prevailing theory with the golf course is that these pesticides are getting into the water source. And people that live near the golf course are drinking water that has this, you know, the pesticides in it, Roundup, glyphosate, whatever they're using.
- [20:19]
Jonathan Cohen
So golfers don't have to be terrified necessarily. Like if you're spending a lot of time on golf courses versus living next to it.
- [20:26]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No, exactly, that's a great question. I mean unless they're like spraying that you're inhaling it. Like, I mean if they're spraying the course, I, I run sometimes along a golf course and there are times when they're spraying and I'm like trying to get ahead of the spraying machine thing and I'm like, I just have to like figure out when they're spraying and not run on those days.
- [20:41]
Mayim Bialik
Well, I think the issue also is not so much like don't live on a golf course. The issue is a larger one that the things that give us so much luxury, joy and pleasure. Like having a weed free garden, which is something that's very important. We now know things. And the Future of Food and Food Inc. Are two wonderful documentaries that I highly recommend that discuss in particular Roundup and Monsanto. And you know, these used to be things that were on the fringes of conversations and people used to kind of roll their eyes and say like that's ridiculous. You're worried about hippie things. But what we know now is that the things that, that give us a lot of conveniences do come with a very high price. And once that information is out there, we are so grateful to people like you for spreading this information because it's not something ignore. If you're living somewhere where pesticides are being sprayed and if there are no weeds, which is a naturally occurring thing to have when there's grass, chances are there's, there's a downside to that luxury, as it were.
- [21:41]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And, and you know, these pesticides and a lot of other forever chemicals, these things are contaminating our water sources, our soil. Like, I mean it's, and it's ending up in the sludge that's, that's give, you know, in the, in the conventional farming that's used not organic, but it's actually ended up in organic farming too. But it's like we're, everything's contaminated. We got microplastics, we got the forever chemicals. We have, you know, now this, the, the roundup and the pesticides. Water filters do help. I mean they help filter out a lot of these chemicals and like small, small particles and stuff. But, but yeah, it's, it's a big problem like how the damage is Done already. So, like, now it's like, okay, do we keep doing more damage? Can we somehow stop that damage? At what point is enough enough? Right? I mean, at what point can we
- [22:24]
Mayim Bialik
say, are you sure you want to live to 115?
- [22:26]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I mean, you know, it's the microplastics and the forever chemicals. That's the thing that also gets me. Right. I mean, it's in everything. It's in. It's in our fruits and vegetables. You think you're eating healthy and then you're like, oh, everything's coated in forever chemicals now because it's in our soil.
- [22:41]
Jonathan Cohen
We did an episode on this, and then the doctor we had on was like, oh, yeah, it's in the ocean and in the rainwater. So it's in the air.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, it's in the air. It's in. I mean, it's everywhere. So you need air filter, water filter. Right? Yeah. So that's the.
- [22:55]
Jonathan Cohen
The golf course new product idea. We live in a bubble. It's filtered, be totally safe. The other conversation that's happening a lot is about alcohol. Feels like the tide has turned on alcohol. It used to be a little bit as good. It used to be red wine is good. Now none of it is good.
- [23:15]
Mayim Bialik
Well, you know, alcohol is a toxin.
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Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It is. I mean, I think a lot of the studies that have been sort of reanalyzed that came out claiming that, oh, moderation, actually, not only is it not harmful, it's beneficial compared to not drinking
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Mayim Bialik
alcohol, especially for women. Let's market it to women. It's delicious.
- [23:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Which is actually the worst women is actually women are most susceptible to the damage related to alcohol. Yeah, we can talk about that in a minute.
- [23:42]
Mayim Bialik
But like, we're also susceptible to the damage created when. I don't drink alcohol.
- [23:46]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Sorry, that's hilarious. And so true. But, yeah, so you don't want me
- [23:52]
Mayim Bialik
sober all the time. I'll tear shit down.
- [23:56]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
All those studies were actually, like, comparing non drinkers to people that are doing moderate alcohol consumption. It turns out there was this whole sick user bias. Whereas the non drinkers were like former drinkers. And so they were comparing them to people that had done so much damage that they had quit drinking. Right. And this was not just one study. This is many studies. And so now it's kind of like, oh, I don't know that we can use that data.
- [24:22]
Mayim Bialik
Right. I mean, well, it's cumulative. So.
- [24:24]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah. Right. And so. And there's just. There's a big spectrum here. And I think at the end of the Day. My biggest concern, particularly for women, is breast cancer risk. Because alcohol, one of the, one of the, I would say one of the biggest risk factors for alcohol consumption is increasing cancer risk. And, and when you think about a person's, when your lifetime risk for, you know, esophageal cancer, which is one that alcohol increases, and I'm like, I don't know. Our lifetime risk is 1 in 500. It's not that big. Right. Like, so a little modest half a percent increase isn't really concerning to me. But what is concerning is my lifetime risk of 1 in 8 for breast cancer. Like every woman has a 1 in 8 lifetime risk of getting breast cancer. That's pretty low. I mean you get in a, in a crowd, in a, in a room with eight women, one of those women in that room will be diagnosed with breast cancer. Right. There's a lot of lifestyle factors that can affect that risk. So obesity can increase the risk. Alcohol definitely increases the risk. Smoking increases the risk as well. And then there's, you know, some other things as well, but those are the main ones. Alcohol really has a dose dependent effect and, and there's no amount, even light drinking increases the risk.
- [25:32]
Mayim Bialik
What is alcohol doing?
- [25:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Oh gosh. I mean, it's getting metabolized into toxic things that are, that are causing cell death that are damaging DNA. They're dam. That's what's essentially causing the cancer. Right. You're damaging your DNA and that's what it's doing. It's creating these aldehydes and things that are reacting with your DNA. It's bad. It's a toxin. Yeah. It does kind of lower your inhibitions and maybe affecting serotonin and stuff like that. And it can be fun to do once in a while, but it's certainly not something that you want to do every day for sure. And that was like the message you know, years ago, one drink a day. Yeah, it's good. I mean, glass of wine a day for a woman is very bad, very bad. Because breast cancer risk, I don't know
- [26:19]
Mayim Bialik
that I've heard that. It's so funny because it's such a huge marketing, you know, like, is it wine o'? Clock? Like how many dish towels do you
- [26:26]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
see when it's the women? And women are actually more susceptible to the toxic metabolites because we have a lower body mass. So we actually, that's why it takes less alcohol for us to feel the effects.
- [26:36]
Mayim Bialik
Sorry, I'm just thinking about like, we're also like more susceptible to like the marketing and the marketing is so geared at that. I'm thinking about the, what was it? The, the skinny cigarettes marketing of my childhood. It was like, this is the sexy cigarette for you. And I feel like in so many ways that's what wine has become, right? It's this culture of like, oh, here's a little wine charm set. Like everything's like wine goodies, right?
- [26:58]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I. I do feel like it's changing somewhat. I mean, you see a lot of these, like, you know, mocktails. I mean, they're really showing up everywhere now.
- [27:06]
Jonathan Cohen
There's a huge industry of, of non alcoholic, right. Fancy drinks.
- [27:10]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Whenever there's money to be made, that explodes, right? Like people like, oh, this is like, this is, this is a great business, which is good. But cancer is my, my main concern with alcohol consumption is, is the, the breast cancer risk. Now if you have like a family history, then it's like, you know, I don't have a family or Ashkenazi Jew. Yeah, if you're Ashkenazi Jew. Yeah, for sure.
- [27:30]
Mayim Bialik
We should not be drinking.
- [27:31]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's like, yeah, breast cancer. I mean, that's a big one, right? We doing, doing the mammograms every year.
- [27:37]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, for sure.
- [27:38]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, for sure.
- [27:39]
Jonathan Cohen
Talk to us about coffee.
- [27:40]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Coffee. I know. I mean, should you drink it? Should you not drink it? Everyone drinks it, right? Who doesn't drink coffee?
- [27:46]
Mayim Bialik
I don't drink coffee.
- [27:47]
Jonathan Cohen
It's probably the. Well, you drink a little bit of tea through your boba, but probably not enough caffeine.
- [27:53]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Oh my gosh. Do you know how much microplastic is in boba?
- [27:56]
Mayim Bialik
He always tells me there's a girl on Instagram and her stomach was full of boba. It was like all just like a
- [28:02]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
big plastic mess is top. Those things are plastic.
- [28:05]
Mayim Bialik
They're plastic, honey. It's the only fun thing left. It's the only fun.
- [28:10]
Jonathan Cohen
You're just putting Lego.
- [28:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Eat it with fiber. Eat it with fiber. Fiber, like stops the absorption of microplastics. Yeah, it stops the absorption of microplastics.
- [28:18]
Mayim Bialik
Chia seeds in my boba.
- [28:19]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes, that's right. Chia seeds in the boba. Yeah.
- [28:22]
Jonathan Cohen
The benefits of coffee. I want to sort of reconcile that. I drink a good amount of coffee.
- [28:27]
Mayim Bialik
He gets weird if he drinks too much and he gets weird if he drinks too little.
- [28:30]
Jonathan Cohen
That is correct.
- [28:30]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Add some L theanine that.
- [28:32]
Jonathan Cohen
So I've tried that, but Dr. Amen is like, no, caffeine is good for your brain. It restricts blood flow. He's like totally against caffeine. Help me Reconcile the difference.
- [28:43]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Oh, my gosh.
- [28:43]
Mayim Bialik
Really?
- [28:44]
Jonathan Cohen
Yeah.
- [28:44]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's so interesting because. Okay, so let's, let's. We'll get to the brain in a minute. But yeah, coffee. I, I did a deep dive on it and it's, it's got so many health benefits that are undeniable. Undeniable. I mean, the polyphenol content in coffee is extremely high.
- [29:00]
Mayim Bialik
And we're talking about coffee itself. Not if you add a shit ton of sugar and milk.
- [29:04]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Oh, yeah, no, I drink my coffee black. Yeah, the additive stuff negates everything.
- [29:09]
Mayim Bialik
Forget that because a lot of people are like, I go to Starbucks, it's great. Sorry.
- [29:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No, it's the coffee itself.
- [29:13]
Mayim Bialik
Okay.
- [29:13]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Polyphenols, like the chlorogenic acids are really, really powerful polyphenols that are doing anti. Inflammatory, antioxidant. They're very beneficial. And so there have been studies showing that people that drink coffee one to three cups a day have a lower. All cause mortality. So like 30% lower than people who don't drink coffee. And, and there's been a lot of studies now looking at like, biological aging. So, you know, they're looking at these, like, epigenetic signatures, these methylation groups that change with age. And you can look at these groups and like, you can determine someone's age based on that, like, characterization of it. And it's delaying biological aging by like one year. So.
- [29:50]
Mayim Bialik
Pretty.
- [29:51]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Pretty. Yeah, that's pretty. It's pretty profound with. When you're talking about at least that type of, you know, data set. When you're looking at, like, biological aging, it's been associated with lower cardiovascular disease risk, type 2 diabetes. I mean, just everything. Everything. And when it comes to dementia and Alzheimer's disease, I should caveat that decaffeinated coffee is also beneficial, again because of the polyphenols. It's not the caffeine, unless we're talking about the brain. So the dementia risk and Alzheimer's disease risk seems to be dependent on having caffeine. There's decaf didn't have that effect. So I don't know why someone would think that the, the caffeine causing vasoconstriction. The amount of vasoconstriction is not that high. And there's also a. I think maybe the polyphenols are countering that, but you'd think the decaf coffee would have the same effect. It doesn't.
- [30:42]
Jonathan Cohen
It doesn't.
- [30:43]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Caffeine is required for. Which is, you know, it's so interesting and I was thinking about this Is that nicotine, which is all the rage. And I would stay away from that. But it's kind of structural.
- [30:54]
Mayim Bialik
It's all the rage.
- [30:55]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah. People are like.
- [30:56]
Jonathan Cohen
Doesn't go on the Internet. She doesn't know.
- [30:57]
Mayim Bialik
Also, the Dr. Amen study was people who drink like six cups or more a day. It was like high, high volume.
- [31:02]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Okay, let me explain that. Okay, so here. Here's what it comes down to. People that drink like eight cup. Eight cups or more a day have an increased risk.
- [31:12]
Mayim Bialik
Right.
- [31:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But it was only at eight cups or more, when they were doing 1, 2, 3, 4 cups, they had a 50% lower risk. So there's something about a little bit selective data. Yeah. Like eight cups of co. Like, I don't know who's doing that, but, like, that's a lot.
- [31:27]
Mayim Bialik
No. And that's going to disrupt sleep. It's gonna.
- [31:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, you're gonna be a disrupt sleep, which is a dementia risk. Yeah. So. But it's also the brewing, the way you brew it that matters. So filtering. It filters out these diterpenes, which increase LDL cholesterol. So that's also important because you can. You can. You can increase your LDL cholesterol, especially if you're adding, like. Like cream to your coffee. You know, 30. 30 units. Like, just from.
- [31:49]
Mayim Bialik
Wait, you were talking about nicotine. Nicotine's all the rage.
- [31:52]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Oh, yeah. So what I was getting at was that nicotine. Nicotine is used as a nootropic. People are, like, using these, you know, little mints or the Zen pat. Like the Zinn bags and stuff. I've never tried it. But Nicorette, like the gum for a nootropic effect, it improves their cognitive performance. You focus. You're, like, in the zone. You're productive. I'm terrified that I'll love it, so I'm definitely not trying it.
- [32:13]
Mayim Bialik
It's delightful.
- [32:14]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah.
- [32:15]
Mayim Bialik
Great drug.
- [32:16]
Jonathan Cohen
And some people claim that it has anti Alzheimer's.
- [32:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Exactly. That's what I was getting at. So there are a few studies looking at nicotine. And nicotine also causes vasoconstriction, though.
- [32:25]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah.
- [32:25]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But it's doing it. Like, I would say there's a little bit of similarity between nicotine and caffeine.
- [32:31]
Mayim Bialik
Very, like, structurally, both diuretics. Right.
- [32:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Is nicotine a diuretic?
- [32:35]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, because they used to recommend it for digestion. Yeah.
- [32:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Okay. Yeah. But I think there's some overlap. Yeah. The fact of the matter that the. The coffee required the caffeine to be protective against Parkinson's, and they're yeah, they're both. It's like they're both doing something similar where there is a protective effect against neurodegenerative diseases for whatever reason. There's all kinds of speculation. I don't know.
- [32:56]
Mayim Bialik
Just don't smoke it. Put it in your gum.
- [32:59]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I don't know. No, no, I don't think that's good. No, no, because it does. It's. It causes cardiovascular disease, hypertension.
- [33:04]
Mayim Bialik
It's.
- [33:04]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
It's constricting your. Your bloodstream.
- [33:06]
Mayim Bialik
Got it. So that's just that. That's not a mechanism of the smoke.
- [33:08]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Nicotine. Yeah, that's not. And that's not a mechanism of caffeine. Caffeine's not doing that. It's nicotine. But people are doing it because they want to, like, be productive. They want to, like, be smarter. It's a, It's a.
- [33:18]
Mayim Bialik
Can't they just. Microdose, like all the guys in Silicon Valley?
- [33:21]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I. That's what. That. Yeah, if you're gonna do it, definitely microdose. But people are not. People are like. I've had people come up to me after talks and they're like, oh, I take, I take. You know, I go through, like, six of these a day, and I'm like, so six of these, like, closing the
- [33:33]
Jonathan Cohen
loop on coffee, though, Just on the, On. On the decaf. I've heard that that's washed with chemicals when you do a decaf. And so you should avoid decaf because of the chemical process.
- [33:45]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Well, yeah. So it depends on what decaf, you know, coffee you're buying. So, yes, it is kind of like a paint thinner, like, ish method that's used to decaffeinate coffee. However, by the time you, you know, whatever's ending up in your cup of coffee is so insignificant. I don't know all these studies on all the benefits of decaf. People are drinking just decaf coffee. Like, they're not buying. There's other methods. Like, you can use this Swiss water method or the carbon dioxide method.
- [34:15]
Mayim Bialik
Don't tell him. He'll start doing it.
- [34:16]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But no, I mean, I mean, I buy that because, like, you know, you kind of obsess over the little things. But I think at the end of the day, you have to choose your battles. I don't think that's a battle to choose. I think that all these studies are showing people drinking decaf coffee have so many benefits, and most of them are just drinking.
- [34:31]
Jonathan Cohen
Tell me, your coffee protocol. What filter system are you using? What are you doing?
- [34:36]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I have the. I like the Pour over. And the Chemex filter, which is not the bleached one, but it's like the brown paper filter.
- [34:45]
Jonathan Cohen
One brown. Are there coatings of microplastic in those? That's what I use. And I'm wondering.
- [34:50]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Not supposed to be, but I'm sure a study will come out in a month or two saying yes, because that seems.
- [34:54]
Jonathan Cohen
I got you filter this rumor filter clogs, though, and it's very hard. And then you spend like 25 minutes
- [35:00]
Mayim Bialik
making dire, don't you?
- [35:02]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
That's the best way. I also do instant coffee, which has benefits as well.
- [35:06]
Jonathan Cohen
Interesting.
- [35:06]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And so, but, yeah, but like, like
- [35:09]
Mayim Bialik
I said in picture, you a Folgers girl.
- [35:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But like, you know, sometimes I'm like, I just don't have time and I'm traveling or whatever. I'll do an instant. Has some.
- [35:17]
Mayim Bialik
I've had one can for 20 years in the freezer because I use it when I make my honey cake.
- [35:21]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
There's. There's a brand like Hagens Instant Coffee, which is pretty good.
- [35:26]
Jonathan Cohen
What's the difference between instant coffee benefit and, like, pour over benefit?
- [35:30]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So the instant coffee, you're getting a lot of the same polyphenols. And with the pour over, what you're doing is you're filtering out those di terpenes, which can raise ldl, but the amount in instant is so small that it's really not a big factor. Yeah.
- [35:44]
Mayim Bialik
So with everything that we've talked about and especially as we've gotten pretty detailed with coffee, what's the most kind of unusual thing you've tried for your own health?
- [35:58]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
The most unusual thing that I've tried.
- [36:00]
Mayim Bialik
What would we consider unusual?
- [36:01]
Jonathan Cohen
You don't have to limit it to one. We're fascinated.
- [36:04]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I mean, you know, I don't know that there's such an unusual thing. I mean, I've. Broccoli sprouts. I was like, doing a lot of broccoli sprouts.
- [36:11]
Mayim Bialik
Were you doing them?
- [36:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I was. I was doing them. You were eating them bags and I was like, so much. Broccoli sprouts.
- [36:17]
Jonathan Cohen
You're on like that now or.
- [36:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No, now I supplement.
- [36:20]
Jonathan Cohen
Yeah.
- [36:20]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But I was like, you're just eating
- [36:21]
Mayim Bialik
them raw bags of broccoli.
- [36:23]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I was making smoothies with them. It was disgusting. And I was like, drinking them.
- [36:27]
Jonathan Cohen
And you're just more efficient to supplement.
- [36:30]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah. Now it's less work. I mean, it was cheap. Like growing. Growing your own sprouts is much cheaper than supplementing. Supplementing is expensive, but it was. It was cheaper. And, you know, I was doing this when I really couldn't afford supplementing and I was making smoothies with them, which I was getting a nootropic effect too. Like I was feeling something in my brain. But I think that's probably one of the weirder things that I've done that, you know, I've done like exogenous ketones and all that stuff. But, like, everyone does that.
- [36:56]
Mayim Bialik
I don't think it's an exogenous key.
- [36:58]
Jonathan Cohen
This whole episode is mime experiences trends on the Internet.
- [37:01]
Mayim Bialik
For the first exogenous ketone. I mean, I know what the words mean. And I could draw a ketone.
- [37:06]
Jonathan Cohen
It's all those jars in the cupboard. Then the corner that we never go to in the. In the kitchen that you never looked at.
- [37:13]
Mayim Bialik
I'm saying which cupboard? Because half of the kitchen is all these things that you tell him about. What's exogenous ketones?
- [37:20]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Exogenous ketones. So ketones are something that our bodies make when we're using fatty acids for energy. So it could be during a fast or if we're on a ketogenic diet, or we're exercising really hard. Right. And haven't had enough calories. And so you make something called ketones. The major circulating one is beta hydroxybutyrate. And beta hydroxybutyrate is interesting not because it's a source of energy. So it can be used as a source of energy. And that's really cool. Why it's interesting is because it's a signaling molecule. So it's like it's acting like lactate in that it's increasing brain drive, neurotrophic factor. It's like, it's a way of increasing. It's like a stress response because your body's like, oh, I'm in this ketosis. I need to activate all these other beneficial genes that are involved in dealing with stress. Right. So exogenous ketones are a way of taking that supplementally exogenously. Right. And so there have been, you know, a variety of different types of this on the market. And I've, you know, people. People like taking beta hydroxybutyrate because it does help with focus and attention. It seems to really kind of get you into that. I mean, maybe it's something like the nicotine. I don't know. I've never done the nicotine. But it does kind of like help you hone in and kind of like focus and be more alert and just like on your game, a little bit
- [38:34]
Jonathan Cohen
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- [40:19]
Jonathan Cohen
Are you on it now or off it now?
- [40:20]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I just ordered some, actually. It's funny you're asking. I haven't done exogenous ketones in years
- [40:26]
Mayim Bialik
and I don't know how you've gotten anything done. I'm amazed you can have a PhD.
- [40:30]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I've just worked really hard.
- [40:33]
Jonathan Cohen
But what drew you back to them?
- [40:35]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What drew me back to them was a conversation I had with a friend whose mother is kind of dealing with mild Alzheimer's disease. And I was kind of. And he was asking me about ketosis and I was kind of getting back into that world that I had, you know, kind of was in a few years ago. And so I started kind of like researching it again. And I was like, gosh, this is like so beneficial. I personally don't like being on a ketogenic diet. There's so many plants I like to eat and it just kicks me out of ketosis and. But I do think there's benefits and maybe I can cycle it in. But, you know, so I, I've done ketogenic diet. I really loved the way I felt when I was on it. Never had that energy crash in the middle of the day, you know, like that mid afternoon energy crash where you're like, some people go for their diet coke, some people go for their nicotine or whatever. I'm just drinking like blueberry smoothies because that's polyphenols. Help me or I'll do my exercise snacks. But the exogenous ketones are kind of a nice compromise for me because I can get some of those ketones for like three hours or so without having to like the work of like doing nutritional ketosis, which is hard work. Now also I do practice time restricted eating. So when you're in a fasted state for, you know, 16 hours, you, you really. It depends on the person.
- [41:55]
Mayim Bialik
When do you stop eating?
- [41:56]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Well, it depends on what's going on. Like I have a family and it's.
- [41:59]
Mayim Bialik
Do you have children?
- [42:00]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes. Yeah.
- [42:01]
Mayim Bialik
How old are the humans?
- [42:02]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
My son is seven. Well, he'll be eight in a couple of months. Got it.
- [42:06]
Mayim Bialik
So. Okay. But like on an average day, like I'm trying to think which 16 hours, like if you were to stop eating at seven.
- [42:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, it's usually I have dinner at six, so I'll be done before seven. And then no snacky poo, no snacks, no late. No late time eating. That's a no. No, that's not really good at all actually. That disrupts your sleep. Yeah, big time. You don't wanna be digesting while you're sleeping.
- [42:26]
Mayim Bialik
Says you.
- [42:26]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Right. So yeah, you start.
- [42:31]
Mayim Bialik
Basically that would be like 7 to noon. AM I doing the math right?
- [42:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Something like that. Yeah.
- [42:35]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah. So you don't have breakfast. I mean, what I was raised was the most important meal of the day.
- [42:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But that's what I, I don't always do.
- [42:42]
Mayim Bialik
Right.
- [42:42]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
16 hours. I mean most, I would say most times I'm more like. I was saying 16 because that's.
- [42:47]
Mayim Bialik
Are you about to brag that you don't eat a midnight snack? Lady, that's not that important.
- [42:50]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No, no, I think what I, I think you kind of misunderstood when I was talking about 16. It wasn't necessarily me, but I do eat breakfast after my workout. My breakfast is usually like 10, 10, 30. Okay, got it.
- [43:01]
Mayim Bialik
But when I hear, like, fasting. Like, I get really scared. That sounds like kind of reasonable. Meaning, like, eat at an early time. Like, don't have. Don't have three snacks.
- [43:12]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No wine before bed.
- [43:13]
Mayim Bialik
No wine, no. Midnight snacks.
- [43:15]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes.
- [43:16]
Mayim Bialik
And then wake up, get your kid to school, do a workout, then start the party.
- [43:21]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I mean, it depends on the type of workout. Sometimes I have to have like a banana or something before the workout.
- [43:25]
Mayim Bialik
Right, okay, that makes sense.
- [43:26]
Jonathan Cohen
So when are you using ketones? Are you using them in the morning while in a fasted state? Are you using them in the afternoon? Like, because you're supposed to use them without food. Is that accurate?
- [43:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You don't have to use them without food.
- [43:35]
Jonathan Cohen
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [43:36]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, no, it raises your ketone levels. Now, if you use them without food, you'll. If you're extending your fast, you'll probably get a bump even more. But, yeah, I haven't. I just ordered them again. When I was experimenting with them, I was doing both. I. Either way was good for me. I mean, even, like, being in a fed state, taking the ketones. It only lasted, like, fed state.
- [44:01]
Mayim Bialik
Here's Dr. Patrick in a fed state.
- [44:05]
Jonathan Cohen
So you would use them in the afternoon, and that would give you a bit of a bump as well. I haven't tried that yet.
- [44:10]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yes. Yeah. And that's essentially what I ordered them for, to be honest. I was like, I'm not, because I don't drink coffee in the afternoon.
- [44:16]
Jonathan Cohen
But you have been drinking beet powder, which I got very excited about when I saw, because I have name a
- [44:23]
Mayim Bialik
powder he's not excited about.
- [44:26]
Jonathan Cohen
Tell us a little bit about beetroot powder.
- [44:28]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, I have been drinking beetroot powder.
- [44:30]
Mayim Bialik
And is that like, from the beet?
- [44:32]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Yeah, it's the extract.
- [44:34]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah.
- [44:34]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So beets are really high in nitrate sugar.
- [44:37]
Mayim Bialik
Well, that's all I think of.
- [44:39]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
They are high in sugar. I'm getting extract. That's like low sugar.
- [44:42]
Mayim Bialik
Okay.
- [44:42]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But beets are also, besides sugar, high in nitrates.
- [44:46]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah.
- [44:47]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And nitrates are found in a lot of different plants, but beets have a lot of them. And when you eat them, nitrates get converted into nitric oxide. Right. Which is vasodilator, which increases blood flow. And there have been a host of studies looking at this. Like, humans taking beetroot extract, it increases blood flow to the brain. It increases blood flow to the muscle. Muscles as well. People, like endurance athletes like to use it before their endurance run or whatever. It increases blood flow to the brain, and that's been shown to Improve cognition, activate parts of the brain that's involved in, like, whatever task that you're doing. Kind of helps activate that machinery.
- [45:23]
Mayim Bialik
So you just put it in a smoothie.
- [45:25]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So what I do is I just put, like, a big heaping scoop in water and I just take a shot of it. It doesn't taste really great.
- [45:31]
Mayim Bialik
Sure.
- [45:31]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But the other thing, that nothing you eat tastes great. Well, I'm sure the high sugar one probably tastes good, but I don't get the high sugar one.
- [45:39]
Mayim Bialik
Okay.
- [45:40]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And. And so I take that and it gives me a little pump, like. Like a little. Almost kind of like what a, you know, little peloton, 10 minute peloton would do. Where I get that.
- [45:49]
Mayim Bialik
Like, kill you. That's what it would do to me. It would kill me. Wait, I'm gonna ask a question that I don't think any fancy doctor has ever asked you. What does your son eat?
- [45:58]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He's such a picky eater.
- [46:00]
Mayim Bialik
Does he eat chicken fingers?
- [46:01]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
No. Does he eat pizza? He likes pizza.
- [46:04]
Mayim Bialik
How about a hot dog? Just tushies and snouts.
- [46:08]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
You know, the vegetables that I can get him to eat are spinach in his smoothie. Carrots.
- [46:13]
Mayim Bialik
Okay.
- [46:13]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He likes carrots.
- [46:14]
Mayim Bialik
He's in a smoothie phase.
- [46:15]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He likes.
- [46:15]
Mayim Bialik
My kids used to do smoothies, and now I can't. I don't know what happened. Okay. But go ahead.
- [46:20]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Okay, well, he's in a smoothie phase.
- [46:21]
Mayim Bialik
Okay.
- [46:21]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
So I put the spinach in the spinach. Enjoy it. But, you know, we're working on, like, a little bit of broccoli. Like, let's just eat this one. Yeah, Broccoli. Florence.
- [46:28]
Mayim Bialik
But does he like meat? Fish. Will he eat fish?
- [46:31]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He likes meat. He used to eat fish. Not anymore. I don't know what's happened.
- [46:34]
Mayim Bialik
Deep fry it, then he'll eat it.
- [46:35]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Deep fry it, Right?
- [46:37]
Mayim Bialik
Okay. What else? What snacks do you let him have?
- [46:41]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I mean, gosh, does he eat yogurt
- [46:43]
Mayim Bialik
in a squeezy pouch? No.
- [46:44]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He does eat yogurt and granola.
- [46:46]
Mayim Bialik
Okay.
- [46:46]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Like the. That low sugar granola. It's called a bear or something. Whatever. Yogurt and granola.
- [46:51]
Mayim Bialik
Okay.
- [46:52]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He does eat sun chips. That's, like, his favorite snack.
- [46:55]
Mayim Bialik
Which.
- [46:55]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
What am I gonna do?
- [46:56]
Mayim Bialik
So good.
- [46:57]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
I know. I loved those two. You know, he eats, like, the typical snacks that kids will eat. Okay.
- [47:02]
Mayim Bialik
So, like, when you send him to school, would people know that this is
- [47:05]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Dr. Rhonda, Patrick's kind of funny story. He does read the nutrition facts on things, and he'll point out to his friends about the sugar. And he's like, you shouldn't eat that
- [47:15]
Mayim Bialik
because he's gonna get punched in the face is what he's gonna get.
- [47:18]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Well, what's funny was one of his friends was like, nah, nah, I like candy. But another friend of his, and he was like telling his friends not to drink out of plastic bottles. Cause the microplastics.
- [47:27]
Mayim Bialik
No, your child is a riot.
- [47:29]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
But he did get one friend. One of his friends, the mother was telling me that he basically doesn't want plastic bottles anymore. He, like, had to stop. He, like, came home one day, was like, you know, no, I can't get a plastic bottle because it's bad for you. And sugar, Sugar's bad for you. I don't want all this sugar.
- [47:46]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, my gosh.
- [47:47]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
And so I guess he was drinking.
- [47:48]
Mayim Bialik
You're gonna get punched in the face, Max or something.
- [47:50]
Jonathan Cohen
Yeah, he's the littlest influencer.
- [47:53]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
He is. He does, you know, he tells me, do podcasts on Coke and why it's bad for you, don't drink soda. But he does. He's still a picky eater. I mean, his favorite food is bacon. And I'm like, oh, great.
- [48:04]
Mayim Bialik
I just sent my oldest to college. He just finished his first year in college. And that's what I was most curious about. Like, how is he going to eat, like, once he's out of my, you know, purview. And I remember we had. We had foreign exchange students staying with us. And at the end of the two weeks that they were staying with us, the head of their program, we had like a going away party. And she said, you sent the most interesting lunches with these children because it was like raw vegetables, you know, cut up and like, here's a little bean salad. And every other kid had like a sandwich or like a schnitzel. And I was like, here's your bell pepper. Color of the day. Anyway, yes, they will all rebel in their own way, I'm afraid.
- [48:44]
Jonathan Cohen
But yeah, what do you want people to remember? Take away as they're exploring their health journey, trying to balance it all, trying to get the misinformation that's online. We recently actually just heard that like a third of health information online is potentially inaccurate on TikTok, so.
- [49:04]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Oh, on TikTok.
- [49:05]
Jonathan Cohen
Yeah.
- [49:05]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Well, on a lot of probably platforms. Yeah, there is, there is. I mean, there's lots of stuff out there that's not accurate. Right. I. I think the main takeaway that I want people to realize is they should be thinking about the way they're eating they should be thinking about food, about like, instead of what should I avoid, they should be thinking about what do I need? And I think that makes it so much easier because when you start to realize all these vitamins and minerals, you need essential fatty acids, essential amino acids. Then you start to realize, okay, I need to eat my leafy greens, I need to eat, you know, my carrots for the beta carotene. I need to eat my seeds for the end nuts for the vitamin E. You start to, you start to coordinate like each food choline. I got my eggs, you know, or my soybeans if you're vegan or chickpea, right. You start to coordinate like what foods are high in each, you know, nutrient. Protein. I need my protein. Okay, well, where am I gonna get my protein? But when you think about your meals like that, there's no room, you'll be full. There's no room for sun chips, there's no room for like the processed food stuff, right? Because you've already gotten full of what you actually need to fuel your body, to fuel everything. And I think that's a really good way to think about eating. And nobody ever thinks about it that way. It's always avoid glucose, avoid processed foods, saturated fat is bad, whatever. It's always this avoidance, like what not to eat. But like, what about thinking about what we actually should be eating? What do we need? And that makes it so much easier because you won't eat the other stuff, you don't need it, you know, so that's one thing. Two, I do think it's important to supplement to fill your micronutrient gaps. I think it's a low hanging fruit. It makes a difference in the way you age and the way you feel. And it's, it's, it's super easy to do. It does make a difference. I think that's another one to take away. And the third one is I think exercise is the most important thing you can do for mental health and physical health and for your health span. Improving, improving the way you age, you know, is exercise. Nothing's better than that.
- [51:05]
Mayim Bialik
I also want to direct people to. You have a cognitive enhancement blueprint. At BDNF protocols.com, you have, as we mentioned, the Omega 3 supplementation guide. That's fmfomega3guide.com and also how to train according to the experts, which is something we didn't get to get into a lot, but that is@howtotrain guide.com tell people where they can find everything else about you.
- [51:30]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Well, thank you. Yeah, those free guys are wonderful. Start. I've got a podcast. I'm on all platforms. It's called Found My Fitness. You can look my name up, Dr. Ron Patrick. I'm on social media. I'm on X and Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, all of it. You can find me again, Found My Fitness is my handle. Or you can just look up Dr. Rhonda Patrick and you'll find me as well. And then I have a website where you can find me as well, and that's foundmyfitness.com Good.
- [51:56]
Jonathan Cohen
Brilliant.
- [51:57]
Mayim Bialik
Thank you so much. Really, so much fun to get to talk to you.
- [52:00]
Dr. Rhonda Patrick
Thanks so much.
- [52:04]
Jonathan Cohen
Okay, what I was. What I'm taking away here is that my coffee consumption is actually okay. I was worried that I was overdoing it for a while.
- [52:13]
Mayim Bialik
Everyone was worried. Everyone listening to this episode was like, what's Jonathan gonna do about his coffee?
- [52:18]
Jonathan Cohen
What I have noticed, though, is that it's. I feel like it's impacting my voice a little bit. I heard that singers don't consume coffee because it impacts their vocal cords.
- [52:28]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, it does.
- [52:29]
Jonathan Cohen
What does it do to the vocal cords? I mean, I'm basically singing while talking. This is what I try to do for everybody.
- [52:36]
Mayim Bialik
I only hear singing when you open your. When you open your mouth.
- [52:39]
Jonathan Cohen
That'. With my intestine, it's.
- [52:42]
Mayim Bialik
Well, it. So coffee is dehydrating. I know that. And it is a diuretic, as we talked about. It dehydrates the vocal cords. One of the things that. That happens, you know, when you have a weak voice or losing your voice is actually that you're dehydrated, just like water. So, yeah, anything that's a diuretic soda, those are things that make the body, you know, kind of. Of lose water. Coffee contributes to acid reflux, which can irritate the vocal cords. And that is something that might happen in. In shorter time. And a lot of people may not realize that they're having acid reflux because it may not feel like acid reflux like on the commercials, but one of the symptoms is an irritation of vocal cords, because it's literally coming back up
- [53:29]
Jonathan Cohen
that I don't feel. Maybe. Yeah, I don't think that's my thing, but interesting to know. And like so many of these other micronutrients that we're talking about, there's a cause and effect that we're not really aware of. And what I love about these types of conversations and the work that she does, as well as so many others in the space and some of that we've. Some that we've had on, it's looking at. Oh, wait a second. That health issue that you're having may be related to something way upstream.
- [54:01]
Mayim Bialik
Fascinating.
- [54:01]
Jonathan Cohen
I've caught myself in some podcasts being, like, clearing my throat and like, like having it catchy. And I'm like, oh, I wonder if my coffee consumption beforehand had an impact. Should I be adding water to the mix?
- [54:13]
Mayim Bialik
No, no.
- [54:13]
Jonathan Cohen
Meaning not in the coffee, but beforehand.
- [54:16]
Mayim Bialik
I think that it doesn't. It's not like that. It's not like I drink my coffee. My core just get affected. It's more about the whole body. You know, a lot of people, usually we can talk about it here. We talk about everything. A lot of people use coffee to poop. So when you poop, you're losing water like that. That's. It's a diuretic.
- [54:32]
Jonathan Cohen
But you're not suggesting not to poop because that would be very bad for you.
- [54:35]
Mayim Bialik
No, but same thing with cigarette smoke. It's going to be a diuretic that's going to irritate your vocal cords in a way that caffeine will not.
- [54:42]
Jonathan Cohen
But she was saying to. The other thing that is, I think, important to. To just differentiate is 2 to 3 to 4 cups is not necessarily like a cup like this that we're holding up. Like, three of these are. That's not a cup. Most coffees are like 12 to 16 ounces.
- [55:03]
Mayim Bialik
Well, most of that's milk and whipped cream.
- [55:05]
Jonathan Cohen
No, but I'm saying just if you're having. If you're going to get like a
- [55:07]
Mayim Bialik
black coffee, I can't even have that kind of dairy. But that's. If I were drinking coffee, that's what I would want. I would make it taste like so much like caramel, and I'd want so much. I'd be like, double whipped cream. I'll pay an extra $2.
- [55:21]
Jonathan Cohen
That's why they don't let you in Starbucks.
- [55:23]
Mayim Bialik
That's why I don't drink coffee. That's what I.
- [55:25]
Jonathan Cohen
Did you ever. Did you ever drink coffee?
- [55:27]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, like in my, you know, like. Well, in my coffee house days, like
- [55:31]
Jonathan Cohen
in the, you know, reading Sartre with your French hat.
- [55:35]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, I graduated high school in 93. It was like the height of, like, you know, Seattle culture, grunge culture.
- [55:42]
Jonathan Cohen
You're wearing your Doc Martens in your plaid shirt, around your waist, with your dark makeup.
- [55:48]
Mayim Bialik
Yes, it was definitely. It was definitely an era of hanging out at coffee shops.
- [55:54]
Jonathan Cohen
And what would you do? You would just like Sip it. Not really drink it, or did you like it at that?
- [55:58]
Mayim Bialik
Even at that time, I think I was eating dairy, but it never occurred to me. My parents would drink coffee and my mom would put a lot of like, milk in it. Like, I knew how to. Someone once said to me, it's not a normal thing. I knew how to make each of my parents favorite iced coffee. Like that was a thing. Like in the afternoon in the summer, I would be like, okay, he wants this much milk, so it's this color and she wants this one. It was like preparing their martini, but it was their iced coffee. So I, I had tasted it and it just tasted like sugar. So I drank it black. But, like, it never tasted great. I never really felt the effect. But I know that if I drink too much caffeine, I just get shaky and jittery. Also, when I speak, you animate like you're my stage mom. And I think it's an act of devotion. But a lot of times I'll be talking to you and it's like, we're on dance moms. I'm your favorite dance child.
- [56:47]
Jonathan Cohen
What do I do? Show your.
- [56:48]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, well, say a sentence and I'll show you what you do.
- [56:51]
Jonathan Cohen
So when you were drinking,
- [56:54]
Mayim Bialik
it's. I think we're enmeshed. And are you codependent? Would be an episode that Jonathan should review.
- [57:00]
Jonathan Cohen
Interesting. I don't have a good listening face.
- [57:03]
Mayim Bialik
You did very well today. You were very engaged with, with Dr. Rhonda. You clearly have been up on all of these topics. One of the things that I appreciated that echoed another episode of ours that people liked a lot. Dr. William Lee, the way that he helps you design your eating really reminded me of the, that Dr. Patrick talks about it. The notion of what if instead of being like, what's available or like, what's convenient, you were like, I need to plan meals that check these boxes off so that I'm getting all the proper categories of nutrients and food. How do I plan my meal? And then lo and behold, there wouldn't be a lot of room for, you know, kind of the, the filler that a lot of us want because it takes so good.
- [57:48]
Jonathan Cohen
I was taking notes during this podcast, like I do sometimes, and what I was kind of shocked about, and this is not even a, you know, detailed list. Fully 90% of people are missing this. 87% of people are deficient in this. 50 to 60% don't have enough of this. Like, there's an epidemic of pre clinical health issues that are happening that are Just waiting below the surface.
- [58:16]
Mayim Bialik
Well, I mean, in many cases, they're not below the surface. The general, like, the message that I got is we're not generally eating an appropriate amount of different nutrients. We're not living in an environment both like, literally the environment in terms of sun exposure and all these things, and also the sort of social environment to support the systems that our body naturally is made, you know, to operate with. So when we think about, you know, what. What the human experience was like a thousand years ago, what it was like 10,000 years ago, and what it was like a hundred thousand years ago, right. We're in a very different state of nature right now. And the things that have changed in our culture and in our way of living, they're cumulative, and they are cumulatively deleterious in many cases. Also, people used to live until they were 30, maybe 40.
- [59:07]
Jonathan Cohen
So we've been out of that for a little bit now.
- [59:10]
Mayim Bialik
We've been out of that for a little bit. But if you look at the length of time that Homo sapiens sapiens have existed, it's. It's not. I mean, I know it's not as important to you to think about those people, but, you know, there. There was a lot of time when, you know, people were. And granted, they were likely deficient in things. And we know that from a lot of the really interesting, you know, physical anthropology studies and things like that. But, but, but, yeah, in the sort of state that we're living in now, you know, it's been. It's been a rough go. It's really been a rough go. And it's been a rough century in many ways. And there have been so many advances. But as. As we talked about, a lot of those advances have turned out to be, you know, not necessarily in our best interest. Right. Microwaving plastic to heat things up is very, very efficient, and it's a fast way to do things. But we now know that, like, if we can use glass, we really should be right, like, for real.
- [60:00]
Jonathan Cohen
There's also a lot of positive and very practical steps that people can take. Like, it's not that difficult to get a multivitamin. It's not cost prohibitive. Getting the right multivitamin, making sure that you have a fish oil just how. Or an algae oil or an algae oil, just how impactful that can be as an antioxidant to help us repair some of that oxidative stress that's coming into our body because we're getting exposed all the time. And the other thing I thought was really interesting is the idea of an anti inflammatory response. We talk about it physically here, but also emotionally, like there's a parallel meaning you can't eliminate all the stress that you're going to experience both on a physical level and on a psychological level. So how on a psychological level do we use some of the tools that we talk about on this podcast? Framing regulation, knowing what's in our control, what isn't, and then also how do we make sure that on a physiological level we're getting the support we need so that when the stress does arise, our body's able to metabolize it. Talk a little bit more about the mind body connection that.
- [61:10]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, I mean that was unpacked here. Yeah, I mean that's like, it's something I feel like I've heard before. But the way that she talked about it made so much sense to me and I just couldn't help but thinking like all the things that we go to the doctor for and they don't know to look for these things or there's not money to look for these things or there's not time for look for these things. So I really appreciate, you know, her kind of like filling us in on like here are some things you can try before you have to try. Fill in the blank right before you are put on a medication that you actually may not need. And I don't want to say that people shouldn't go on antidepressants. Like if you need an antidepressant, by all means, if you want to go on an antidepressant. But what if what you're dealing with is actually inflammation and you've been given a diagnosis that's constitutional? Right. Your body doesn't produce enough serotonin. Right. Like that's a very different story. And you know, then you're dealing with like side effects of those medications or you just end up on an SSRI and you're like, I'm just going to be on this forever. When maybe what's going on is like a, some of the foods you're eating may be causing inflammation, like gut brain connection. You may be like having a brain on fire is what I call it. Or what if some supplements could fill in some of those gaps to help reduce inflammation, which is a normal thing that happens. Like there's inflammation. But like, what if you just don't have enough stuff? Like what if you're literally going on a diagnosis that might not even be appropriate for what you're experiencing?
- [62:34]
Jonathan Cohen
You may be going to the doctor thinking that you have depression with all the clinical symptoms of depression, but really what might be happening is you may not have enough fish oils, you may not have enough vitamin E in order to have an anti inflammatory response. So your body is having a physiological response. And sure, you could go back and do psychotherapy and we're big proponents of therapy here to understand your patterns.
- [62:58]
Mayim Bialik
No, but you might just need a supplement of some stuff that you can get at the supermarket.
- [63:03]
Jonathan Cohen
You may have had a nutrient deficiency, a micronutrient deficiency that is preventing your body from being able to regulate itself well.
- [63:11]
Mayim Bialik
And I'm really grateful for people like Dr. Rhonda and, you know, and the Hubermans and The Atiyas and Dr. Lee, like the people who are bringing this more into our consciousness because there is more of it that's in our control, you know, and it can be very disempowering, you know, to be put on a medication and think that there's something wrong with you when there actually may be more to the story. So we're, again, we're not advocating for people throwing out your SSRIs, but also finding out more information or trying things in addition to what you're doing, because maybe it's not just about you're not meditating, right. You're not exercising enough, you're not, you know, in a job that brings you the ultimate joy that it could.
- [63:50]
Jonathan Cohen
It's top down, bottom up.
- [63:51]
Mayim Bialik
Jonathan.
- [63:51]
Jonathan Cohen
Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. But if we had to summarize, it's top down, bottom up, right? Top down. Being. Let's analyze how you think, what your thought process is, how you're making meaning of the world, what your past history is, your emotional complexity, your upbringing. Bottom up. Do you have the basic physiological building blocks? And that's actually a nice parallel. You know, on the podcast, we talk a lot about emotional health. We look at extra sensory ability, we explore the edges of what's possible, where science and spirituality meet. And then we have a podcast like this because we're all in physical form, we have these bodies. We can't have spiritual experience without still being alive in, in the vessels that we have come here in. And so how do we take care of these bodies that we have in order to continue the human experience that we're all having? Bottom up. How do we. How do we make sure that we're getting what we need?
- [64:44]
Mayim Bialik
One of the articles that she published with Dr. Ames, who she mentioned, was an article about vitamin D hormone regulation and serotonin synthesis and the high rates of autism in boys and a differential distribution of vitamin D and serotonin in boys that might account for the increased diagnosis in autism for boys. Very interesting paper. So she does so much like, like deep, deep work. But we're so grateful that, that she talked to us about all these things and also some fun stuff today. So yeah, check out her website. Check out, yeah, especially those guides that she talked about. They're really, really cool.
- [65:22]
Jonathan Cohen
Mayim, if people don't know what Substack is, tell them what Substack is.
- [65:28]
Mayim Bialik
Well, Substack is a, a platform that our podcast exists on where we have more, more in depth conversations in many cases about the things that we talk about on the podcast. And Substack is also a place where we can communicate directly with our breakers and also share content that we've never shared anywhere else that we've been kind of saving up to share with a more select audience of people that we know want that content. And so it exists over on Substack
- [65:59]
Jonathan Cohen
that is very well explained. A lot of people ask, what is Substack? It is a platform. They have an app, they have a website. You create an account, you join and you can look at what you want
- [66:10]
Mayim Bialik
and not look at what you don't want.
- [66:11]
Jonathan Cohen
And yeah, there's a lot of things on Substack but you can follow us, the podcast, the Breakdown community, the Breaker community. We have exclusive content there, never before released, not seen anywhere else. Mayim and I do lives. If you love what you're hearing here, please come over, join us. Considered becoming a paid member, but there's also a free membership.
- [66:31]
Mayim Bialik
And also I've gotten back to writing. So I do writing that is on Mind Bialik's Breakdown Substack and Jonathan does writing on his Substack page, which is Jonathan Cohen. I do have a substack, but I write from the Mayambialics Breakdown podcast. So you can also see writing which is usually things elaborating on things we've talked about here and also just general writing that otherwise I'd be blogging about or submitting to other publications. We now have a place where all of that lives. So head on over.
- [66:57]
Jonathan Cohen
The larger takeaway is Google Substack. Put it into google. Go to substack.com, search for mind bialix Breakdown and follow us there. We are so excited to continue to build the Breakdown community.
- [67:09]
Mayim Bialik
We'll see you over there. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time.
- [67:13]
Jonathan Cohen
It's Maya Bialix Breakdown she's gonna break
- [67:17]
Mayim Bialik
it down for you.
- [67:18]
Jonathan Cohen
She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fix your she's going to break down, so break down she's going to break it down.