← Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
Part Two: Neuroscientist Dr. Julia Mossbridge: Was I a CIA Experiment? Remote Viewing, Missing Memories, and the Science of Psychic Abilities
01:13:56
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- [00:06]
A
Hey, Sal.
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B
Hank. What's going on?
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A
We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy.
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C
Think something's up?
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A
You tell me.
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B
They got thousands of options, found a.
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A
Great car at a great price, and.
- [00:21]
B
It got delivered the next day.
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A
It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.
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C
Buy your car today on Carvana.
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B
Delivery fees may apply.
- [00:35]
C
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B
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C
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B
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- [01:01]
C
Visit lifelock.com podcast terms apply. Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.
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A
And I'm Jonathan Cohen.
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C
And welcome to part two of our conversation with cognitive neuroscientist Dr. Julia Mossbridge. She's the human potential research lead for the telepathy tapes and also an affiliate professor, the Department of Biophysics and Physics at the University of San Diego. We're going to be talking about her disclosure, a series of experiments that she's never talked about that she participated in against her will when she was a child. And we're going to talk about the impact of that on her research and her sense of well being. But where episode two is going to start off is with a very, very fascinating remote viewing exercise that Julia is going to walk me through, the results of which we will reveal at the end of this episode.
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A
We are also going to explore how Julia is potentially proving that telepathy is real with unbelievable experiments done in conjunction with the telepathy tapes.
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C
Make sure to join us over on Substack for more on this conversation and so many different aspects of things that we couldn't even cover in the episode. So please head over to Substack for content that is not released anywhere else. And Here is part two of our conversation with Dr. Julia Mossbridge. Break it down.
- [02:18]
A
Let's do the exercise. And when we come back from the exercise, we're gonna ask you the difference between what is clearly observational in your mind in terms of what you spotted with us, and what's different about psychic ability and how they may overlap.
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B
I think that will actually become clear.
- [02:39]
A
In the exercise because I know everyone's excited to talk about that they're also, if I'm looking at our list, which Mayim loves, talking about strategies to increase psychic ability and intuitive ability. We definitely want to touch on precognitive abilities. A lot of people listened to the first episode and started taking note of their dreams. So I think we should touch on that again. And however you want to touch on this, how the CIA, in your awareness, has used and developed psychic tools in the field, because people are fascinated that what has previously been seen as fringe actually has grown from inside government agencies.
- [03:21]
B
We could disentangle that. I love this. Okay, so our job, Jonathan, you and I, our job is to beam her love. Everything that Miami is doing is perfect and she's doing the best she can.
- [03:37]
C
And I'm supposed to not be self conscious or judgmental of myself?
- [03:41]
B
No, because everything you're doing is perfect. So if you're self conscious or judgmental, that's perfect. Go ahead and split the whiteboard in half with a line. What I'd like you to do on the right hand side is to write the date, like on a piece of paper, like you're in school. And then just write your name, but not your actual name, Mayim Bialik. Like on a school paper. You're going to write your super secret code name that comes to your mind right now. It's in Hebrew, so that's secret to many people. Your secret codename. Fantastic. And then underneath that, I'd just like you to write. What are you afraid of right now? A word. It can be a code word so other people don't have to know anything. You're afraid of failure. Okay. When I'm helping people learn how to remote view, which is what we're going to help you do with this exercise, it is common that I'm working with people who are trained in the same way I was trained, which is super analytical, left hemispheric, major focus on, you're going to succeed, you're going to be top of the class, you're going to do all the right things and achieve, achieve achievements. And this is, you know, I work with engineers and doctors and people who have done that and they want to try to access something else. So the fact that you wrote down failure is so universal and beautiful. Before I even told you that I was going to ask you to remote view. And it makes me feel like you're being honest about what you're doing. So the right side is representing your left hemisphere analysis side, the side that you were trained in and that you're very, extremely good at okay, so we're going to come back to the right side of that. Okay, but now I want you to lean over and on the top of the left side. So just go ahead and write 9324. And that's going to be like our address in information space for what we're about to ask you to remote view. Okay, so what I want to ask you to do is imagine that inside of your body is your sensory system rather than outside. So you, the inside of your body is receiving information about. It's connected to the entire cosmos and it's connected to this information dimension that has all the information in the universe in it. So that instead of coming through your eyes and your ears and your fingertips, it's coming really the inside. So it's like this juicy cosmic space inside of you. And when you're on the left side of that page, I'd just like you to write your intention for this remote viewing session. So it could be one word or two words, but drawing on that unconditional love that Jonathan and I are both sending you and the feeling that you have in relationship to God. What is your intention? Your intention is to receive. Okay, so now we're working on this side that is really representing your right hemisphere and is like gentle, connected, loving, supportive, intuitive. Okay, and there. Wonderful. We're going to receive. And let's go right back because I saw you look at the right hand side. Let's look at that word failure. What can you do to decorate that word so that it is filled with love? So that the part of yourself that's afraid of failure can actually feel love. Right now we're playing with the analytic side by decorating it. You made an anagram. Draw a picture of how you feel when you look at that word owl fear that you created out of failure. You said you have the feeling of transforming failure, but don't say any more words. Excellent. That's beautiful. So we have your intention to receive. We've transformed failure. So your analytic mind is actually working over there on that process. So we can tap into your intuitive mind and we can gently say, close your eyes for a second. Here comes the dog to help you out with some unconditional love. Thank you very much. Your intention to receive. Go ahead and just whatever you see in your mind's eye, and it may be surprising to you, just something that shows up and see if you could not label it with a word and not speak, but just draw, it could be the part of something that you don't understand what it Is. Excellent. So you drew something. We're not going to label it, but you drew something that has a central area and some lobes around it. Wonderful. So now I'd like to ask you to let that go. And on the right hand side, write the label that your analytic mind would give that picture. What would your analytic mind call that picture? And you wrote expansiveness. So now go back to the left side, and I'm going to ask you to close your eyes again and ask you, what do you hear in your mind's ear? And then I'd like you to draw a picture of those sounds without using words. Okay. You drew a waveform. We are the nerdy ones. I totally would do that. Can you draw a picture of what the sound represents or how the sound makes you feel that you hear in your mind's ear? So different from your physical ears. In your mind's ear, you might be hearing a sound. How does it make you feel? Draw a picture without using words. Very. Did you write a very small dot?
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C
Yeah.
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B
So. And then on the right hand side, if you could write the word that explains that very small dot in an analytic sense and maybe also explains the sound. Discrete existence. Beautiful. Wonderful. So you have expansiveness and discrete existence juxtaposed in the right hand side. That's really interesting. So one more picture on the left hand side. I'd like you to consider imagining yourself in a garden. Someone comes up to you and hands you an object. It is not threatening. There's no problem with the object, but it's just an object. And if you could draw a picture without words of any aspect of that object. Excellent. And on the right hand side, if you could write a word that your analytic mind would like to say about that object. It's a pyramidal prism. Beautiful. And those separate light into rainbows. Yeah, those are beautiful. Thank you so much. So the end of our first time remote viewing session exercise that actually relates to couples therapy, and I'll tell you how in a minute is that you're on the bottom right, just to protect yourself and separate yourself out from sort of the infinite, a space of information. You just write unmorph, unmerge, unblend, like a mantra in case you strayed away from your discrete existence at any point. And then you just write end of session at the bottom of your page. End of session, and you're done.
- [11:36]
C
Okay, So I don't understand what just happened. Why was that a remote viewing session?
- [11:42]
B
Because it's one way of doing remote viewing that gets like it's Not a full remote viewing session. It was like a taste. It's one way of doing remote viewing that gets to the strengths of the right and the left hemisphere. And our goal was to create an exercise that would allow you to, in your own mind, recognize the value of. Of this left side of the board, which was run by the right hemisphere, which is the thing you devalue in Jonathan.
- [12:08]
C
What I found interesting was there's a way to look and listen that most of us are not in touch with. Right. Whether it's. And there's a lot of new research that I'm seeing about interoception, about the set of internal tracking systems that the nervous system has established. It's, you know, like, if you think of, like, how do you know when you have to go to the bathroom? Like, of course we say, like, my bladder's full. That's actually not it. There's actually stretch receptors where the bladder's like, this means time to empty it. Right. So there's an entire internal system. So this was kind of the. The mind's interoception. Right. To be able. And I pictured, I, you know, I love sensory systems, just physiologically so. So I literally pictured it turning inside out. But it's so hard to think about something without naming it.
- [13:00]
B
Yes. And that separation allows you to appreciate. I kept forcing you to only do pictures on the left side, except for that very first time with the intention. Because it's getting to know this part and then separating it out and so recognizing the value of each.
- [13:16]
A
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- [13:18]
C
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- [14:26]
A
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- [15:34]
A
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- [16:50]
B
And so the question is, of course, how did you do? Before we move on, I would like to actually talk about what the target was. The first thing people do, especially good students, is they try to read the teacher's mind. So that's where Mayim will go. She'll go into my head. And the thing is, I don't know what the target was. I won't know until the future. I'll know when you both know. And so that's why I only work with precognitive remote viewing. In fact, this is my shirt from my team that I, that I founded, oprv Team Love Operational Precognitive Remote Viewing Team Love. And the focus is on using Love to get to a future answer to a question. We don't even know what the question is yet.
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C
So one of the things that.
- [17:34]
B
That.
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C
Came to me was I assumed that there was, once we started going, some sort of target. When people do remote viewing, like when they do this, let's say when they're recruited, like we had Angela Ford on, they are given specific things like, we need you to find this criminal. They're not just vaguely given like see what happens. But you're saying that at some point in my life, I may come across a prism that is salmon colored.
- [18:02]
B
So it's interesting because what I said was there is a target in the future. But when you try to go into my head, I don't know it because it's not the future yet. So none of us will know it. But then you interpret that as there's no target. And so this is a common. I did the same thing when I first started remote viewing as a good student. I'm like, if it's not in your head, then it's like that's where I would get the answer from the teacher. If the teacher doesn't know the answer, then it doesn't exist. But the teacher knows the answer in the future, just when you know the answer. And that's true for people who are doing missing persons. That's true from anyone. For anyone who's, you know, looking ahead in time to look at potential terrorist threats, the answer is in. If they start going to someone else's head for the answer, they're just going to give back whatever the bias is of the person who was just talking to them about this.
- [18:46]
C
Well, right. And that's about, that is about statistical probability. Right. So, for example, if I'm, if I need to buy a couch, chances are there's a small number of places I might find that couch. I could find it sitting on the street, but chances are it's going to be in a furniture store. Right. So with certain things, you can have some sort of precision.
- [19:09]
B
If you're a gifted remote viewer and you're doing remote viewing, the reason you're doing remote viewing for whomever you're doing it for, some defense contractor or intelligence agency or investment banking firm, you're doing it because they've already used the analytic tools at their disposal and they know what is predicted by the past. And so like, that information is already there. We have a lot of machine learning. We can figure out the patterns suggest that this, you're doing remote viewing because they want to find out if their prediction is any different from what is actually going to happen. So there's black swan events, for instance, that you can predict based on the past. And so if all you're doing is using the past analytic information to calculate it, why would you do remote viewing? So that's why I'm really focused on future targets. Because you can answer useful questions like what would be the best form of climate mitigation in the climate crisis? Right. Or what would be the best way to manage transition between different presidential administrations? These kind of questions that would actually help people.
- [20:17]
C
What's the difference between remote viewing and thinking?
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B
If you're a trained remote viewer who's trained to really both honor the intuitive and analytic sides of your mind and work them both at appropriate times, which is what we were doing in that exercise. You realize the value of both of them. And you can use that in your thinking, you can use it in your writing, you can use it in your analysis, you can use it in your creativity. So it makes a better thinker.
- [20:43]
A
What I noticed is that there were two sides of the board which are representing two sides of your brain. And one of those sides you were very comfortable with and the other side, which had a lot of unknown in it, you were uncomfortable.
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B
You literally said, I don't like this side of the board.
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C
Well, yeah, and also I was using my right, my dom, my dominant, I was using my right hand for both, which, like switching hands is also another way to tap into.
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B
You can, but it's harder for people because then they'll say, I'm using my wrong hand.
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C
I'm pretty ambidextrous. But yes.
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A
So what I saw in this exercise, as it relates to the target, but also as it relates to how do people increase and take steps to increase their intuition, was that you were asking her to spend more and more time in a side that had no boundaries, no guardrails, and no words. No words, really open ended. And you were pushing her into a space that she was uncomfortable with and encouraging her to spend more time there.
- [21:38]
B
And when I saw that she was gonna break if she didn't write down a word, I would say write down a word.
- [21:44]
A
So if I have to use the engineering side of my analytical mind, I'm seeing that there are these two sides of us. We want to be able to toggle back and forth, because when we get something, we want to understand it, but we want to push and allow ourselves more time and space in the other side. That is open. Open ended, vague. And we don't know what will happen and information will come to us because, as you said, we are all part of a collection of the entirety. And therefore, we may see a Black Swan event. We may see things that we would not otherwise be aware of, because there's such an openness in that space.
- [22:23]
B
You would filter them out or turn them into a label. So that's why I said, I'm not going to call that a flower on the left. And then the word for it I expected you to write was flower. And you wrote expansiveness, Which I was like, well, that's interesting. And so the words we're so used to, like, talk about trying to foreclose and fear of the unknown. We use words to say, you know, there's something. I see something that's sort of blue, and there's this, like. It's like, oh, it's a cup. And you. Once you get to a cup, you don't realize that it's actually a missile silo.
- [22:57]
C
There's a certain kind of sparkly glitter that reminds me of something from my childhood. I don't know what it is, but when I see it on a necklace, when I see it on a sweatshirt, like, it just brings up this feeling of, like. Right. Like, what's that thing? Right. How you can't even put it to words. Which is why some of our greatest writers articulate. Right? I mean, Nicole Krause in the History of Love, she articulates so much about these dynamic Things that are beyond description.
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B
But you said it right there. Dynamic. And so when it. When a director says to you, this is what I want from you in this moment, they're trying to use words to label an inside experience that cannot be labeled. And so if they are imprecise, it's because they cannot be precise. So when you say, okay, that's what you want, you have an internal picture, you have labeled it and now you've failed because it's not going to be the same thing again and again.
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C
Sometimes, and as an actor, I think a lot of actors have this experience. Sometimes we'll bring something to a role, to a scene that even the writer didn't imagine, but it's better than what they thought.
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B
I mean, that's why I don't use AI to write is because like the whole thing is these words that you're communicating, you don't even know what you're saying. And then later you go, oh, wow, okay, I said that. And so that it's the discovery of that information that we normally filter out that can come through.
- [24:16]
C
It's about identity. I mean, it really is, right. Who am I when I feel this thing?
- [24:21]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [24:22]
A
I used to script doctor a lot, especially when I was right out of grad school and my favorite thing was finding the unconscious breadcrumbs that the writer was leaving for himself or herself that they didn't know were in the story. Because they were like, the story would be 120 pages and I'll be like, oh, actually the story is right here in these few pages that you were kind of working around. Especially in an early draft.
- [24:45]
B
Yes. And even a cherished manuscript. I don't know. Charles Dickens, that's lived forever. You can be like, oh, I get it, you're really trying to say this. But he may never have been conscious of that. Like, so just learning what I feel like, that's what reading is about. That's what experiencing art is about. It's about like there's a message that's being sent quietly without words.
- [25:11]
A
You said something earlier in the episode, unconscious process from non local sources.
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B
Yes.
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A
It's understood that the brain is filtering and only processing. So if I'm in this room, the I may be getting a lot of other information that I'm putting my blinders on in order to have this conversation with you.
- [25:28]
B
But there's also non local information and.
- [25:31]
A
You talked about from past future. If I start to open my senses, what might I start to be aware of? About all the information that is possible.
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B
It'S kind of like an interesting question because you're asking what might I become aware of? You're saying, is something else going to join the movie now that I have this capacity? And what I'm saying is remote viewing is a trick to get at the things you're not aware of. And you may never be aware of the relationship between what you experienced and what the target is. And in fact, when people are doing remote viewing in situations where they really can't know the target because it's for national security reasons or whatever, they often never know about the relationship between what that non local information is and what the target was. And so it's not about what you're aware of, it's about what you receive. Your word, receive. Beautiful. It's about what you receive and getting the raw data and not necessarily even bringing that into your conscious story about the universe. And then that's protective because this is a real thing and people's minds can really do this and it can actually protect you to not have to really understand what it is that you received. Because if it's about, you know, a horrible bombing or something, wouldn't it be nice to just be like, I drew a flower, right, so. And then they said, thank you.
- [26:55]
A
Well, the reason I ask is because I like to figure out how things work. And then I also like to try to make things practical for people in their everyday lives. Some people will remote view and have information. Other people may start to use the same tools and principles to help them be more aware of things that they have suppressed, that they have hidden from themselves.
- [27:17]
B
You can use a tool like this, which is essentially having the hidden part, which is generally our right hemisphere, which doesn't generally have a voice, giving the hidden part a chance to reveal what it's hiding, which is a lot of information. This is the part that accesses all the information in the universe and only reveals what's necessary for us.
- [27:35]
C
Keep in mind, Jill Bolte Taylor, when she had her stroke, became one with this portal, this book. It's very digestible. Like you give us just a little bit and then the chapter's over. And I, with each chapter I was like, oh, I get to breathe. Because it's a lot, it's a lot of information. So what's also interesting is, you know, it's not until a good five, six through the book that we kind of get to a very specific conversation that the rest of the book was preparing us for.
- [28:10]
B
It turns out, although frankly, I didn't.
- [28:12]
C
Know that this is a book that, like the Never Ending story, deep cut, it writes itself as you're reading it, because I believe that it wrote itself as you wrote it. So there's like a lot there. You use images that we don't really fully understand until later in the book.
- [28:32]
B
Well, and then we still don't.
- [28:33]
C
We don't even have a framework for what these symbols are that you're using throughout the book. And I would say this. You know, it feels like a memoir. You know, it's called have a Nice Disclosure. But in some ways it's a very beautiful little memoir.
- [28:45]
B
Right.
- [28:46]
C
So I want you, though, to be kind of explicit with us about some of the things that you started to realize you did not realize from when you were a child.
- [28:59]
A
I love this, and I think it speaks to one of the questions that I was holding, which is this difference between your aware part, which is just observational, informed by how you were brought up, and your psychic part. And I think the story about what you disclose to yourself may tie into explaining to people what does that mean to have those abilities and how do you harness them.
- [29:29]
B
It's interesting. This is a case in which I had many of the memories that I talk about at the end of that book in the Soar Gate section, but I didn't understand them. I didn't have them as a picture that made sense. So the basic story is super simple. There was a program called Soar S O A R. It was a gifted and talented program that I was in my seventh grade, which was back in 1981, 1982. And you grew up in Libertyville, Illinois. This was at Butterfield School. And I was tested. I knew I had been tested since I was in first grade because I kept acing all the tests. And so I knew they had their eye on me. And then in this class, it was. There was a lot more of that.
- [30:12]
C
Were they testing lots of kids or were you aware of somehow being different and singled out that way?
- [30:18]
B
They were testing lots of kids, and then after they tested them, they then they would single you out. So I was one of the singled out. And as I talk about this, I'm very aware that, like, gifted and talented programs are very important. People who went to public schools did not have the same protection as people who went to private schools. And so they're, they're. They get money from the government. And so there could be government programs in public schools, especially when the parents are, you know, in a situation where they're not paying attention or they've got other things going on. That can. That can definitely be a problem. And so my. But I'm just. That's my little editorializing. I had all these things happen in this gifted and talented program. Some were really great. Like, we got to write our own books. That was cool. Now we had cool field trips. Some were really weird, and I sort of just ignored them for a long time. But as I'm writing this book, I just realized I had to talk about it. And the weird things were things like we had quote, unquote, hearing tests that were not hearing tests. So I ended up Getting my PhD in a psychoacoustics lab. I know what a hearing test is. Looking back, these were not hearing tests. We also had them every week. And it's not like we were next to our firing range and they were concerned about hearing tests.
- [31:30]
C
What were they testing?
- [31:31]
B
They were. They weren't testing our hearing. They gave us these sounds over these headphones that were, like, really high pitched. I can't imitate it because it was so high pitched, especially our left ears. And they would. They would always do it in pairs. At least that was my memory. They would bring you and another person. Do you remember this?
- [31:51]
C
I remember testing. I mean, I was. Yeah, I was born in 75.
- [31:55]
B
So, okay, this kind of test was like, listen to these tones. What do you feel? Listen to these tones. What are you thinking? Did you remember those kind of tests? No. Yeah. So it was kind of Monroe Institute y. Sort of weird sounds. How do they have to relate to cognition?
- [32:14]
C
Also, what does a seventh grader say?
- [32:16]
B
So when I started thinking back on that, I was like, okay, I started thinking back on that in the end of 2024, so year ago. And I asked my mom about it because I was like, hey, there was this weird program where they did these weird hearing tests. You know, it was a gifted program, you know, and she said, oh, yeah, they were studying you. Like, apropos of nothing, they were studying you. I mean, who's they? She goes, I don't know. The CIA? I'm like, just because she said CIA doesn't mean it's CIA. That's just what people think.
- [32:45]
C
Sure. Well, that's the catch. All for that's the catch. All the man.
- [32:49]
B
Yeah. Right. And unfortunately, the poor intelligence community has to deal with the fact that everyone thinks the CIA is evil and they have done evil things. So, like, I get it. But it's also the case where they have to work really hard.
- [32:59]
C
They also do a lot of secret things that they can never admit.
- [33:02]
B
And they are. And they try to avoid war. And so that's pretty cool if you ask me. But. But anyway, that's what she said. And I was like, well, that's interesting. So I had applied for a job in the federal government, and I. In the job description, it said, go get, you know, all. All of your transcripts. And so I'm a good girl. And so I'm like, all my transcripts. Okay, I'll go back to my grade school. I'm sure no one does that. But I did, and I get my transcript. And all eight years from first to eighth grade at Butterfield School in Libertyville, Illinois were redacted. When the comment section redacted, someone had redacted my transcripts from me. And I wrote them and I said, was this like, what? And they said, that's how we found it. We don't know why it's like that.
- [33:46]
C
Also, you have your first grade report card from 1976. You have it in the book and then this redacted electronic copy.
- [33:55]
B
Yeah. And you can see that the redaction was actually done with cardboard because there's. It's at an angle.
- [34:00]
C
They just put a piece of paper over it.
- [34:02]
B
Yeah. Which is the old way to do redaction and takes a lot of work.
- [34:05]
C
Redaction is a fancy word for hiding.
- [34:08]
B
Yeah. It's censoring. It's censorship. So I cannot have access, apparently, to my. So luckily my mom had kept at least my first grade report card. So anyway, that was interesting.
- [34:18]
A
The one she kept was not redacted.
- [34:20]
B
No, no. So the one she kept was from first grade. They never redacted their comments. That's where they would have written about this program.
- [34:27]
A
And was there anything in that first grade report card that raised any suspicion?
- [34:33]
B
It's just that it said I was reading at like a fifth grade level and that I'm a good storyteller and blah, blah, blah. So they took that out, but I think it was just all redacted, like every year. So I don't think they necessarily read it. I think someone decided to do that. Now, it could be that there was a law that all of those had.
- [34:50]
A
To be redacted for anyone who was being tested, maybe, or some.
- [34:53]
B
I don't know. I make up stories to make this sound normal, but it's not normal. So I don't know what to say. This episode is brought to you by Peloton Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton Cross training Tread plus, powered by Peloton IQ with real time, guidance and endless ways to move. You can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push and go. Explore the new peloton cross training tread +@onepalaton.com hey, it's Brooklyn Adams and I'm.
- [35:27]
C
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- [36:24]
B
The other thing that they would do is every week I would meet with my counselor. Now I was a really good student. I had no behavior issues. I was getting straight pluses, which is the old term, right? Like that was the word open school term for A's. Teachers loved me. I was always good. But I had a counselor for some reason, not clear why and when. I would go see her every week and sometimes I saw her and a man. I would walk down, I would dread walking to her office. I would. I could see the lockers on my right. I could go past the office, go to this weird part of the building, take a left into this area, take another right, and that's the room where I met them. As soon as I close the door, I don't remember a single thing that ever happened. And then I leave. And now I remember things again and I go back to my classroom so I can still, you know, I'm 56 years old back then, what I was 12 years old. I can remember the pathway and just dreading that whole thing. And I can remember that I didn't remember.
- [37:22]
C
Now I I also want to say, you know, 12 years old. I mean a lot of us remember things that happened when we're 12. This is not like, oh, these are toddler memories. And like, oh, you're gonna like the implication that some might make is like they were stealing your memory and giving you drugs and blacking out. It's also possible that whatever was happening, you did not want to remember.
- [37:40]
B
I think it's very likely. I. I know I have a gift when someone. Where I see a movie that's too traumatic, and I won't watch certain movies or if someone's telling me something that's traumatic, I. I often forget it. So I. I know that that's. That I would like to not be traumatized. And so isis. So actually this is. So I didn't put this in the book, but I'll just tell a bunch of millions of people who are watching. I. I talked with the UFO community. I said, there's, you know, you've got to have someone who does past life regressions or, or this life regressions to help me figure out what a blocked memory is. And they said, we do. We do. And here's this person. She's really wonderful, et cetera. And so I said, great, I'm going to work with her. So I told her I want to unblock whatever happened. And she said, great. And we had an appointment. The day before the appointment, she texts me. She says, I'm sorry, I can't do the regression because I have emergency dental surgery. And I said, okay, well, can we reschedule? She said, no, because I will have emergency dental surgery at any time you would like to do this. Which was her way of saying, I can't do this regression.
- [38:44]
C
What?
- [38:45]
B
Yes, I know these things happened to me, and they've been happening.
- [38:48]
C
Well, can we try a different one? Jonathan will do one right now. Lay the ground.
- [38:54]
A
You said that you were making narratives to fill the holes here, but someone who. Does she have a connection to the intelligence world?
- [39:04]
B
I have no idea. After that, I backed away. And I thought maybe she knows about something really traumatic and maybe it's better if I don't know what happened in that frigging room.
- [39:13]
A
But who got to her?
- [39:14]
C
Jonathan is saying that what he hears, which is a possible interpretation, is that this woman is saying, someone came and told me, do not do a reading for. For Moss Bridge. She has information we don't want to get out.
- [39:26]
B
What.
- [39:27]
C
What we're saying is that this woman perceived that anytime she tries to dip into Julia, she's going to be pulled away and pulled out of it, and.
- [39:38]
B
That it would be unsafe for me. I think she was giving me a message that it would be unsafe for me.
- [39:42]
A
There are two versions of this. One is that there is some system of control that organized the tests. What, what was being played on those audio recordings? Because one version of this is that there is an organization designing these tests. Why would they use students? Because students don't have the depth and development of the analytical side. But also what they're trying to do is use someone who may have a larger access to that non rational side, that non analytical side, and they're just going to feed them information. And from their perspective, it may be the richest source of data because you're young enough not to have blocked out the intuitive side and you're old enough to not be so vulnerable that you're an 8, 9 year old.
- [40:32]
B
I understand, I understand. I'm not saying that that's not the case. In fact, I think that is the case, especially given some of the follow up cognitive testing that was done with me and some of the coincidental relationship between the timing of my filing a FOIA request and getting a progressing in a job offer for the federal government. So all those things totally support that interpretation. And I also hold in my mind, and I think it's important, especially for you who let's be with the unknown a little bit. I also hold in my mind that people do different things for all sorts of different reasons. And when you're a person whose mind has been surveilled, essentially which mine has been through much of my life, it appears, because you're interesting in some kind of way, you have some kind of capacity, there can be positive and negative motivations to do that. And the motivations that I really respect are the positive ones that are about taking care. Like take care, take care. And that's what I felt from the woman who said I'm going to have emergency medical surgery was take care. And that felt not like, oh, someone got to her, maybe someone did. And she was responding in this really responsible way. But to me, the way it felt to me was there's danger going into those waters. Maybe consider not going into felt protection. It felt protection.
- [41:57]
C
And the other thing also, and I think this is something and you deal with this very clinically in the book. Let's just take the one example you gave of the that sound right. And they're asking what do you feel? Let's also keep in mind that may not have been a mind control experiment. It could have been an opening to see which kids talk deeply, which kids have an active imagination. It could literally have been a stimulus, keep us going down this road. So this is seventh grade.
- [42:31]
B
This is seventh grade. We also have this weird pink drink that's kind of viscous, that we're supposed to drink that they tell us is fluoride or antibiotics sometimes.
- [42:38]
C
Have you talked to other kids from your school?
- [42:40]
B
Yeah, yeah, so some of the kids. So one of my, my best friend in junior high was also in this program and she and I spent the summer of 84 together talking and stuff. But she had a different experience. She doesn't remember the hearing test. She doesn't. So I think different kids were selected for different reasons. I mean, I have a complex situation with my father working for Department of Energy. My mother, I think was recruited to University of Chicago from a very poor family and her parents worked in a uranium mining facility in Denver. I started to put together the clues and that's what this book gave me was I started to put together the clues of. And then this one dream I had that led me to a phone number of a, of a radioactive, like the, like a, like a agent, a government agency that, that examines people for the effects of radioactivity. And then I found this document in 19 from 1978, a memo that sets out the government's desire and the necessity for studying the effects of radiation, ionizing and non ionizing in humans. And so that's where my dream took me. And so this whole. And then, and then this book, writing this book took me to this process of I have to say these things out loud, I have to piece them together and do a little more research. And when I do a little more research I start to go, oh, maybe this has something to do with when I was taking a test on 23andMe and it was something like an 18 month or two year longitudinal study. And they are asking me questions like I signed up to do about my medical history. They asked me questions about, you know, they have me do these cool tasks which turn out to be kind of like they could be psychic tasks. And they are asking me questions about what I ate recently and stuff. But they asked me two questions that were so personal. Two questions. First, was in your twenties did you have. Were you diagnosed with a ganglion cyst on your ankle? Excuse me, in your 20s were you diagnosed with a ganglion cyst on your ankle? Which the answer was yes, but also like what? Because you can't get ganglion cysts from DNA nor can you get the location at that point Anyway. Then the next question, which happened a little time later was were you recently diagnosed with a torn rotator cuff? Yeah. Now that also you can't get from DNA or anything.
- [44:58]
C
Well, I mean, people Of a certain age. Again, I'm just running stats here, and.
- [45:02]
B
They weren't asking any other specific questions. And the other ones were like, have you had any stomach aches? You know, da, da, da, da. Like, just general anxiety questions. Right. The reason they couldn't get it from my medical records is I did have a torn rotator cuff, in fact, in both shoulders. I don't know how I got it. I woke up with them, and I never went to see the doctor because I was like, screw it. All they're gonna do is give me a cortisone shot.
- [45:22]
A
Tell us about the pink drink.
- [45:25]
B
It was chalky. Like contrast. Actually, I hadn't thought of it like contrast until now. That's interesting. Anyway, my memory, my logical memory says I must. I don't see the problem is I remember the drink and I remember the taste of it. So there's. There's just missing chunks of what happened with that drink and what happened after that drink.
- [45:45]
C
Did this go on through junior high, through high school?
- [45:48]
B
Not explicitly. Not explicitly. I wasn't, like, told I was in a program. You know, obviously I was in all the AP classes and all that stuff, but, like, no, nothing explicit until. Until after that, when I was in college and I had another memory loss experience where I remember losing memory. But before I even go into that, I want to say about this pink drink, I'm not the only one who remembers this. So when you say it was the 70s, I got to say it's also the 80s, the 90s and the aughts. And so in the 80s, 90s and aughts, there are people who are taken out of gifted and talented programs. The pink drink resonates. The weird hearing tests that weren't hearing tests resonate.
- [46:27]
C
This person grew up in north central Ohio in the 1980s. Anyone here remember a weird routine in elementary school called swish? You'd get a paper cup of pink fluoride to swish around in your mouth for a minute. Someone said, I keep waiting for my superhero powers to kick in. Someone said, if you grew up in a community without city water, this was how they gave fluoride to kids.
- [46:48]
B
Well, we had city water. Not at our house, but anyway, this was a drink that was viscous. Now you don't have to. You don't have to have viscosity with fluoride. So that's the piece that's. Anyway, so as I'm getting older in college, I took some time off of school to go sort out my life and be with a friend who had Graduated and I went to Palo Alto. And then in my mind I have this experience, a two pronged experience. One experience is my dad tells me I needed a job because, you know, not from an independently wealthy family. So my dad tells me, oh, go talk to my friend at Lockheed Martin or this person I know they need a word processing person and you know how to do that stuff. And then the other part of my mind says no, I saw an ad in the newspaper, so I don't memory recall, not great on that. So anyway, I go to Lockheed Martin, Palo Alto or East Palo Alto. I forget where it is and here's what I remember from that day. I walk in, I applied for the job, they give it to me immediately, like weirdly. That feels weird to me. I'm having a conversation with the guy who's giving me the job and he's kind of avuncular and sort of like great, you'll type letters and do word processing. And I have this experience of behind me there's this weird equipment, but I don't remember it, but I, but I have the experience of it. I can see through the window, I can see in my mind's eye, I'm saying I can see the cars, it's on the first floor, the guy's desk, I can see all that. And then what I can see is the end of the day, that's the next thing I can see where I'm shaking and crying and I'm typing on the word processor letter and I go into his office and I say I have to leave, I can't do this. And he tells me he thinks I would be a great asset to Lockheed Martin. Why, why would he say that? A 20 year old who's taking time off of school to go live with a friend to word process is going to be a great asset to Lockheed Martin. After one day and I'm aware of not remembering the rest of the day, I'm just shaking and crying, which is not something that I had ever done before. So that's, and the fact that I was shaking here in your studio earlier, it just brings back that feeling of like there's something there.
- [49:03]
C
What did it mean to, you know, come out of the closet in a way with this book you have a, you know, a beautiful academic life. You've written wonderful book. Like you're, you know, you're, you know, you're like the lead on telepathy tapes, research. Like you're, you've got this incredible life. And not that this is not incredible, but I'm curious what it felt like, because I think a lot of people, and you do talk about, especially with sexual identity, with gender identity, a lot of that is what we think of when we think of disclosure. Right? Right. Or if we talk about the government revealing secrets about aliens, we talk about disclosure. What does this kind of disclosure do for you? What does it feel like? And what might you say to people who might be holding something or who are curious what they're holding?
- [49:53]
B
It makes me scared. It also makes me proud. It makes me feel whole. It makes me feel loved and feel loved, all of those things at once. So all of those are in there. The fear is. And I've managed the fear. Like, I'm aware of the fear. Like when I talked about me shaking, like, I'm aware of the fear. The fear is largely twofold. One is the paranoid fear of, like, it's a conspiracy and Lockheed Martin is going to come kill me, which I don't think is going to happen. The other is the underlying fear, which is, do I really think I count enough for this to be true? Am I being grandiose? Right. And I finally let myself say, look, it's objectively true that I have an interesting mind. It's objectively true. I've had my psychic capacities measured by people other than myself. I know that I am decent as a psychic. I also know that I'm very good as an analyst and that I'm very creative as a scientist. And this makes me very interesting. And it's okay to just notice those things and say, yeah, it is not that I'm that important. It's that I'm that interesting and that that interest makes sense. I would be interested in a mind like mine.
- [51:13]
C
If you had to give your best guess as to what might have been happening. What is your best guess?
- [51:21]
B
So my best guess is that intelligence and defense in the US realized they needed to study the effects of radiation because there was more and more radiation, not only from World War II and children whose parents had been exposed to radiation, not only from World War II and from all the nuclear testing, et cetera, but from electromagnetic radiation, from computer screens, from cell phones, I mean, mobile phones, before, right before the smartphone. So there was a mass recognition that our humanity, and particularly people in our country, were going to be exposed to radiation in everything. Right. Like, you can't have this background of nuclear testing, et cetera, and not have that be the case. So what's that going to be like? And I don't know if that pink drink was an amnesiac or what if it was mixed with some kind of iodine to help protect us from radiation? Or if it was a little bit of radiation, to see if a little bit of radiation could cause psychic capacities? I put myself in the position of people who were under. It was a national emergency to figure this out. Apparently, according to that memo. What would you do to do that? And how would you do that and keep it secret and yet try to maybe do it in an ethical way? I don't see a lot of evidence that there was a lot of attention paid to the ethical part, but it seems like you would be trying. I think it's good intentioned people trying to answer a call to do something that was very important.
- [52:53]
C
Can you explain just for people who may not know what happens, for example, with radiation poisoning, meaning what's the information that they're trying to get? And are we seeing things in our lives, in our bodies, in our physiology that might actually be reflecting that we are impacted in a way that might have been curious to the government?
- [53:14]
B
I don't have any idea to the answer to that. I think that I almost avoid any information about that. I almost. Because I feel like, well, I mean, certainly cancer.
- [53:28]
C
Well. And we also know that there's more spontaneous mutations, younger and younger in people's DNA that is leading to a lot of things, which could be many reasons. It doesn't have to just be radiation.
- [53:38]
A
With a spike correlated to the fact that we're now all carrying cell phones with us everywhere we go and we're spending five to six hours a day with it in front of it.
- [53:46]
B
You don't have to be like, have a security clearance to know that we have more radiation, both ionizing and non ionizing in our world than we did, you know, 100 years ago.
- [53:56]
C
Where do we get exposed to radiation?
- [53:58]
B
I mean, so first of all, there's natural radiation. So we're getting exposed to radiation. Where is everywhere? Everywhere where you can go on the planet. And then when you go to space, you get more, when you fly, you get more, you know, you're not as protected by our amazing magnetosphere.
- [54:12]
C
Can you explain to people where they may not even realize that they're being exposed to radiation? And we're not saying like don't do this, don't do that. But some people may have no idea how this even is relevant to their life.
- [54:22]
B
Right? And there may be benefits. So there may be benefits. Microwaves from your cell phone on your WI fi works on radio frequency, any kind of radio frequency that's out there, there's people who explicitly use radio frequencies to injure other people. So you might get exposed to that and become paranoid about that after I just said that. But most of the time it's people just being in like, what, an X ray? You walk through the TSA thing. So what we have to figure out.
- [54:50]
A
Of course, is what's the tipping point?
- [54:53]
B
What's the tipping point? And what do we mean by the tipping point? And this comes back to neurodiversity. Neurodivergence is like, is it acceptable if a tipping point is to create more psychic people?
- [55:03]
A
Is radiation creating psychic people?
- [55:05]
B
So I have no idea, but maybe that's one of the questions that might be asked, right? Is it more acceptable if radiation creates more people who can't speak, but they can communicate with spelling? Is that acceptable? What is the acceptable risk? Again, I'm not saying that these things are true. I'm asking questions that I think probably other people are asking.
- [55:24]
A
So you say that there are people using radio frequency to harm people. How is that happening?
- [55:29]
B
Since the 50s, you know, that's like. That's a kind of. It's called like a directed energy weapon. And you can use radio freak as part of electronic warfare. So people can use that to make you feel like. Like a heat on one side of your body or.
- [55:45]
C
Yeah.
- [55:45]
B
What.
- [55:46]
C
Where is it coming from?
- [55:47]
B
Well, I don't know where it's coming from and maybe that's classified. But I mean, people can do this whether with like, I don't know, on the ground with a beam or something.
- [55:56]
C
Can you clarify a little bit about what the CIA is doing, isn't doing or might be doing?
- [56:01]
B
No, but what I can. Not at all. Not because I'm part of the CIA and I have to be secretive, but because I don't know, because I am not part of the CIA.
- [56:10]
C
And if you were, you also would have to say you don't know.
- [56:13]
B
It's true. But also, I think we have to remember. So I hang out with a lot of people in the intelligence community and I collaborate with them to try to make the intelligence community not a shitty place. And these are people I highly respect who have either been involved in CIA or. Or are involved in related. There's like something like 16 or 18 intelligence agencies. So I really like them, I highly respect them. In fact, I invited them to my house for a book launch party and gave them a copy each a copy of the book, maybe as a protective maneuver, but also. But also because they really get it that the country might. What I want to say is there are some really good people in these agencies that are being dissed all the time who are trying to do. When I say the right thing, I mean really the right thing. They have lawyers who are incredibly ethical and say, well, first of all, the CIA shouldn't be involved in any kind of work like this in the United States. That's illegal by the way. And so if anyone represents themselves as someone who's from the CIA, or I used to work at CIA or you know, to you, in order to try to, for instance, work with your child who's a non speaker or gain access to your, you know, gifted child and give them a pink drink, you know, they're using the mystique and the fear that people have about the intelligence community to mess with you and to gain access. And that is unacceptable to both the intelligence community and to the rest of the world. That's not okay. And that should be called out. And people need to not be afraid of that bs. That's nuts. And there's this amazing documentary people need to hear about which will be coming out next year, the Power we have or something like that, I can get it to you. But it's these women called Iron Butterfly who have been in the intelligence community and who are calling out the power of women in the intelligence community to be moral, ethical guideposts for what is done. And I feel like people need to know about that before they go slamming whole agencies that are really huge.
- [58:23]
A
When did you first discover that you had intuitive or psychic abilities?
- [58:27]
B
When I was a kid. I was like seven first grade. I started having dreams about things that would happen on the playground and I started keeping my journal because I had parents who were, who, we would talk about dreams at the breakfast table. And of course, as everyone does, I would say like, oh, I dreamt this and then that would happen or something. And so then I started keeping a dream journal because I wanted to make sure I wasn't having a false memory.
- [58:57]
A
But like, what things would be coming true on the playground.
- [58:59]
B
Like, yeah, my very first precognitive dream that convinced me that we didn't understand time. And that was my particular friend Ushain would lose her watch on the playground. That was the dream. So three components, very specific. Ushain would lose her watch on the playground. Oh, at recess. But I mean, we were only on the playground at recess, so that doesn't count. So three things that were independent and specific. And then the next day that happened.
- [59:26]
A
And she hadn't lost her watch before.
- [59:28]
B
No. Her father had just given her the watch the day before. Before.
- [59:31]
A
Wow.
- [59:31]
C
But why would you. Right. Like, if that's not something that, like, a kid would dream about, Like, I'm gonna dream that my friend's gonna lose her. Like, it's not something that you would think necessarily would.
- [59:42]
B
And that's when I knew that as a kid. I'm like, this is too precise. I have to find out what's going on with the time.
- [59:48]
A
What was the next step in that evolution?
- [59:50]
C
Then she drank the pink liquid. Her mothers were lesbians, and she got a PhD.
- [59:54]
B
I love I.
- [59:55]
C
And then she saw the Vagina Monologues, which she really liked.
- [59:58]
B
I think this show should be an album, potentially.
- [60:02]
A
This is like in the movie, this is the inciting incident where you. All of a sudden a spark is cast in this young child who says, there's something going on here. Where I close my eyes and I see the future. How does that go into, like, how does that develop? What next steps happen there?
- [60:20]
C
Did you continue to have these dreams? Did you. Did you see other psychic abilities develop? Did you broaden your sort of toolbox of psi phenomenon abilities?
- [60:31]
B
I didn't think about it as psi phenomenon. I. I had a. I had a human brain coloring book. Do you remember that one?
- [60:37]
C
Yeah. I mean, I used it through grad school.
- [60:38]
B
Yeah. Yes. Right. And I had that. And so I would color it and think about the brain and try to understand. I was always this left, right sided, sort of center brain person, but I could do really well with both sides. And so I would always try to use the one to understand the other. So I would go back and forth. So when I first started out my scientific career, I was at Oberlin and I was like, I'm going to be a neuroscience major and I just want to understand the brain. And I didn't even think about all this other stuff, these experiences. I would have them at the same time, but I sort of discounted them or didn't think of them. I just kind of had to go in one, like we did with the exercise. I had to go in one area at a time and then polish that and then move to the other area. So after college, I go to graduate school. I'm at UC San Francisco in the neuroscience PhD program. And it's very linear, it's very left brain. And I completely rebelled. And I was like, wait a minute, what about psychic stuff and consciousness and dreams? And they're like, would you like to ruin your career and study those things? Have at it. Go away. I mean, there were Very nice people there, but definitely you're going to have to do this somewhere else. So then I left and I went after my master's and went to Northwestern and met some people there after my PhD who were really interested in studying the psychic stuff and then did my postdoc with that group of people. So it's just a back and forth of trying to work with each of these sides and integrate them so I can understand them.
- [62:03]
A
When you were working in the analytical side, did you have less precognitive dreams than when you switched?
- [62:13]
B
Yes. This is something you brought up about also the idea that people like we had talked about CIA or whatever, but I think we should talk about that again about people's impression that if you're working with one side of your brain, like if you're super analytical, you won't have the experience of the other side, you'll almost suppress it. And in some cases I think that's true. I think for me it's like it had its own plan. And this is the hidden part. So the hit back to the hidden part. The hidden part said I'm going to show up and I'm going to show up when you're being too frou frou and woo woo. And I'm going to make you get more analytical and I'm going to show up when you're being too analytical and I'm going to remind you that you're connected to the rest of the universe. And so it feels like my hidden part does both parts. So that's why I don't associate it completely with the right hemisphere. It's really. It's really this underlying. It's a mind thing, it's not a brain thing. Right.
- [63:11]
A
If you had advice to anyone who is either having intuitive experiences but may not be able to understand them fully, or they don't feel grounded and incorporated in their lives, or someone who wants to sort of open up their ability to have intuition guide their lives. Right. Like we make so many decisions all the time, often without all the data. What would you say to someone who is trying to increase their ability to navigate this world from an intuitive sense?
- [63:41]
B
Start with a relationship with God and you could call God unconditional love. You can call God the universe, whatever source or God or whatever name you have. Start with a relationship with God so you feel protected, whole and loved. And then everything will just happen. Like that's where it starts.
- [63:59]
A
And the reason being that when you don't feel protected, you're going to assume bad things are going to Happen and therefore you're going to bias your intuition towards either being blocked, stuck, unclear, or moving you towards those negative outcomes.
- [64:13]
B
Well. Or you won't listen to your intuition because it just doesn't have a voice because it's the scary unknown and you don't feel protected.
- [64:20]
A
Do you have to sit in the scary unknown in order to have intuition?
- [64:24]
B
It doesn't have to be scary, but.
- [64:25]
A
It has to be unknown.
- [64:26]
B
But it has to be unknown.
- [64:28]
A
Beautiful.
- [64:30]
B
There's two things we need to do before the end of this podcast. One is to talk about what I'm doing with the non speaking autistic students that I've been studying in relationship with the telepathy tapes. Thanks to Kai Dickens, who introduced me to many of the people on my team. But two, we need to get your target. You still haven't seen the target for your remote viewing.
- [64:52]
C
It's in the future.
- [64:54]
B
We are going to make that future now.
- [64:55]
C
The future is now.
- [64:56]
A
Yeah, the future is always new.
- [64:58]
B
So, Jonathan, do you have photos on your laptop or on your phone?
- [65:02]
A
On my phone, yeah.
- [65:03]
B
Okay, great. Pick a number between one and ten.
- [65:06]
C
Pick a number between one and ten.
- [65:07]
B
Yep.
- [65:07]
C
Seven.
- [65:07]
B
Okay, Jonathan, open your photos. Look at all photos.
- [65:10]
A
Yeah.
- [65:11]
B
And then find the seventh photo. Okay. Now show that to Mayim. And we are going to send her love. Because this is the target. So why is this the target? This is the essence of it. Intention. I intend, I intended, without speaking, that the target was going to be the X number that you picked. Photo. That photo, slash, video that's on your phone. So let's look at the board again.
- [65:38]
C
Let's do it.
- [65:38]
B
Because this is what do we see that's similar? And what do we see that's different about what you have on the board? So use your analytic brain to say what is similar and then what is different?
- [65:50]
C
And I can make up whatever associations I would like right now for sure. I mean, the first thing I thought of is I had forgotten this dog's name was Peaches. But when I pictured that prism, I described the color as salmon. But when he said Peaches I was like, it's that kind of color. It's like that pinkish orange. It's almost like Valerie's hair, which is, you know, also kind of like that sherbet. Yeah, I thought of that.
- [66:16]
B
What about the sound?
- [66:18]
C
Yeah, there was something kind of staticky, but also it didn't have variation.
- [66:26]
B
Like a white noise.
- [66:27]
C
Yeah, exactly. It was my mind's ears version of discrete. Yeah, white noise like that. There is something about the shape that they're taking that feels pyramidal. Like there's something about the way that they're laying together a couple times.
- [66:44]
B
Oftentimes when people first do a remote viewing, when they're trying to indicate outside, they will draw a flower. That's just an indication of something outside.
- [66:53]
C
And that's just symbolism that exists in our culture.
- [66:57]
B
And then the prism is often a symbol of light. And if you notice one of those dogs was in the light. Did you see the shaft of light in that video?
- [67:05]
C
Also, I'm thinking of, like, love and the feeling also of watching joyful, unconditional love. Source. Right. Like, I did think of that also.
- [67:14]
B
I would say you did a pretty good job.
- [67:16]
C
I did not fail.
- [67:17]
B
You did not fail. You did receive.
- [67:20]
C
What's 9324?
- [67:21]
B
That's an arbitrary number that I just. I gave your.
- [67:24]
C
Says you. That's my home phone number.
- [67:28]
B
No, I wanted to give your analytical mind something to hold onto as if that would have, like, magical powers that would link you to the target.
- [67:34]
C
Telepathy tapes. Tell us what you're working on.
- [67:36]
B
Telepathy tapes. We're writing up our results from some trials on both telepathy and also trying to understand the minds. We call them mind discovery trials with a bunch of autistic non speakers in Chicago. And then I'm doing a brief article for Aperture magazine, which is the International Remote Viewing Association's magazine, to compare remote viewing and the savantism of non speaking autistic people. And then next year, we're working on curriculum. Natalia Meehan and Maria Welch, two teachers of non speakers, are creating a curriculum. It's a holistic curriculum that brings into the teaching of how to do spelling and communication with non speakers, brings the telepathy into that as a tool to use rather than to be ignored. And then we're also doing this fantastic new venture, which is for profit nonprofit organization called mindrise, which will be a national organization that will actually help, we hope, change the way human potential research and technology is both conducted and funded.
- [68:48]
C
What is your best interpretation about psychic abilities in, let's say, the nonverbal autistic community? What are you finding?
- [68:57]
B
We say non speaking just because they're very verbal when you get them in on the letterboards. So it's. The trouble is that there's no reliable speaking. So what we're finding is that the original telepathy test that Diane Hennessey did, we can't speak to that because we're using a completely different method that uses richer stimulus sets and more naturalistic interactions. But given that there's definitely telepathy going on, it is really hard to capture with our stimuli because they don't seem to care about them. But they do care about the conversation that they had in their mind with their friend whom they've never met in the body, you know, who's thousands of miles away. And we get that all the time. And so that kind of spontaneous telepathy is very clear. And I also have heard from some parents of non speakers that they've been approached by folks who claim, oh, we work with the intelligence community and for national security reasons, we want to have access to your kid. And like, I just want to underscore, well, it may be true that there could be national security reasons why you need to use these gifts. Just use your sense. Just use your sense. And your sense needs to be, is this person treating me ethically, Is this person trying to manipulate me, etc.
- [70:18]
A
Hold on. Government agencies are recruiting these?
- [70:21]
C
No. People who are claiming to be government agencies are often contacting, which could be more of an indication that there is something to tap into here. But we don't want people also using legitimate intelligence agencies to try and gain access to vulnerable populations, especially with the promise of, we're going to prove that your kid has telepathy for sure.
- [70:41]
A
How are you proving these, these experiences, though, when you say that they're communicating with people that they've never met in physical form, how are you identifying it?
- [70:52]
B
So we write down the anecdotal stories because that's what always drives people to do research. But then the research. For example, we wanted to have a controlled. We had worked with videos that were from stock footage where we try to get non speakers to describe what's in the video that someone else is watching. Not great. Not great. They're not that interesting. They're not.
- [71:11]
A
Why would they care?
- [71:12]
B
Why would they care? And that's what they say. Like, okay, I tried, but it was a boring video. So they often have associations in those trials. So, like, one student had an association. The video was of these blossoms. And someone you know, more than 50ft away in another room that didn't have any adjoining walls with the doors closed, was watching the video of these blossoms opening really fast. So he says, oh, well, the video that they're watching reminds me of church and religion, greatly seen by others. That was his wording. And so we were like, okay, whatever. We didn't know what the target was because we like to keep ourselves blind too. Right? The only person who knows what the target is is the person who's watching the video. That's how you keep things blind. So then when we go over the target with the non speaker and we show him the video, he says, yeah, that's the kind of tree that's outside my church when I go in. That's the kind of tree we have. So then we call in the mom, what kind of tree do you have? Is there a tree outside of the church where your son would go in? Oh, yeah, there's these blooming trees. They're like pink. So it's like that's how we get the spontaneous information.
- [72:22]
A
And you have been seeing that there's overwhelming data that this is happening.
- [72:26]
B
Oh, it's clear. I mean, even we were just playing around once with another Natalia Meehan, who's helping to put together the bridge program that I talked about the curriculum. So her sister is a non speaking autistic person, and she has dropped out of graduate school in ecology to go help her sister learn to spell and then communicate. Now she's discovered that her sister is gifted at understanding herbal remedies for people. So in any case, Natalia and I were playing with one of her students that I'd never met. And so I said to her, like, okay, we have to get permission from the parents and the student to do this little thing. Fun, play a game. You go ask permission. So she asked permission. They said yes. So the game was Natalia was going to just intend, without saying anything out loud, that the non speaker report on what I was thinking in that moment. So I knew the time of day, I had it written down. And so I kept track of what I was thinking in that moment. Right. So the non speaker comes in, she says, well, is there anything you want to talk about before we get going with our lesson? And the non speaker starts talking about Julia, like literally names me. So she hasn't mentioned my name at all to. To him. Writes about Julia writes about this owl that I was watching on a video. Oh, the owl flying over and then mentions something that I was thinking of for the last 24 hours, sort of obsessively, which is Three Eye Atlas, that comet. And she didn't know what Three Eye Atlas was.
- [73:58]
C
The issue here would be with facilitated communication. If the person who's holding the letter board knows what Julia is thinking about, can we even verify that the student knows? But in this case, the only person who knew what Julia was thinking about was Julia and the universe. So someone is in theory holding a letter board that this individual, who is otherwise Nonverbal is using to communicate with. So if they said owl, I mean, think of how many words there are in the English language. Even if that was the only thing that happened was that you were looking at an owl and this person typed owl. The stats on that are.
- [74:35]
B
It's ridiculous. Out of all things that you could say and then, and then talks about three eye Atlas, which she didn't know. She knew owls existed, but she didn't know what she was like, what is 3i Atlas? And she had to look it up and the mom had to look it up and then they found out, oh, it's a comet. So then they asked him, why, why are you talking about what is 3i Atlas? And he's. He spelled out it's a sentient comet.
- [74:57]
C
Do you anticipate that using this kind of spelling method as opposed to facilitated communication? Do you think this could be the thing that breaks this wide open in terms of people's understanding of what's actually going on when we talk about telepathic abilities?
- [75:13]
B
Yes, I absolutely do. And I think that's also where the love revolution comes in because these non speakers are very right hemispheric in this, in, in the colloquial sense, which is very focused on human connection, relationships, trying to help and love and so bringing that in. It's revolutionary.
- [75:34]
C
Julia Mossbridge. Where can people find you obviously have a nice disclosure, really, really beautiful little book. Where can people find out more about you?
- [75:45]
B
So people can find out about me@theinspiracy.com which is also juliamossbridge.com, so either one, maybe it's easier to remember the inspiracy, which is by the way, like a conspiracy but inspired inside of yourself. So it's the inspiracy and then juliamossbridge.com is the same site. Everything I do goes on there.
- [76:03]
C
Join us on Substack for a lot more conversation about all of this and more from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.
- [76:10]
B
It's Maya Bialik's breakdown. She's going to break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two and now she's going to break down. So break down. She's going to break it down.