← Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
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- [00:04]
Mayim Bialik
Hi.
- [00:05]
Jonathan Bialik
Carvana is so easy. Just a click and we've got ourselves a car.
- [00:09]
Mayim Bialik
See so many cars.
- [00:11]
Alanis Morissette
That's a clicktastic inventory. And check out the financing options payments
- [00:15]
Mayim Bialik
to fit our budget.
- [00:16]
Alanis Morissette
I mean, that's Clickonomics101.
- [00:18]
Jonathan Bialik
Delivery to our door.
- [00:20]
Alanis Morissette
Just a hop, skip and a click away.
- [00:22]
Mayim Bialik
And bought.
- [00:24]
Alanis Morissette
No better feeling than when everything just clicks.
- [00:28]
Mayim Bialik
Buy your car today on Carvana.
- [00:32]
Alanis Morissette
Delivery FEES may apply.
- [00:34]
Jonathan Bialik
MayimBioX breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep
- [00:38]
Podcast Narrator/Host
like so many of us spending a lot more time indoors as winter's in full swing, sleep's even more important during the colder season. It's peak cold and flu time. So now's the perfect time to invest in a new mattress. I've had every sleep issue you can imagine.
- [00:52]
Mayim Bialik
Night sweats, back pain, motion transfer.
- [00:55]
Podcast Narrator/Host
We are so excited when we heard that Helix wanted to partner with us years ago. After all the incredible feedback, we've heard about them over the years. I've had my Helix for about, gosh, five years now and it's made a huge change in our lives. Jonathan loves his Helix. My our kids love their Helix. We highly recommend taking the Helix Sleep quiz to find your perfect mattress in under two minutes. That's how we did it.
- [01:16]
Mayim Bialik
Everyone sleeps differently.
- [01:17]
Podcast Narrator/Host
We're confident you'll find a Helix mattress specifically designed for your specific sleep positions and feel preferences. When I took the quiz, I was matched with a midnight cuz I like something a little firm and I sleep on my side. Jonathan, though, is a twilight person. But both of our mattresses are a huge upgrade from our last ones. They're models with memory layers, provide optimal pressure relief, and cradle your body in the areas that it need it most. It's the perfect combination of comfort and support. And Jonathan loves the cooling features of his Helix mattress. Go to helix sleep.com breakdown for 27% off sitewide exclusive for listeners of Mind Biox Breakdown, that's helixsleep.com breakdown for 27% OFF sitewide.
- [01:56]
Jonathan Bialik
Make sure you enter our show after checkout so that they know that we sent you helix sleep.com breakdown.
- [02:03]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Hey, I'm Mayim Bialik and welcome to my Breakdown. Today, in honor of Eating Disorder Awareness Week, we want to revisit a really, really important and popular episode from a few years back with singer, songwriter, musician, overall incredible human being, Alanis Morissette. And while we've talked about eating disorders a lot on mbb, we've talked about disordered eating in particular. Alanis articulates so many aspects of the struggles that so Many have with food. We wanted to share this episode in honor of the week coming up. There's also a ton of other incredible topics we talk about with Alanis. We talk about boundary setting, we talk about anger as a catalyst for positive change, the benefit of meditation, and also some prophetic visions that she had about her career. Also end this episode in a conversation about what we project on our relationships that we inherited from our parents. We also talk about craniosacral therapy, what it means to rest and stick around to the end to hear me sing and dissect some of my favorite Alanis lyrics. If you have trouble with eating or with an eating disorder, we hope that you will get help. We have some references in the episode that we talk about and now we hope you enjoy taking a look back at our very, very special episode with Alanis Morissette.
- [03:26]
Mayim Bialik
Break it down. It's really, really lovely to get to speak to you. This is my co pilot, Jonathan, who's also Canadian. We like to highlight the Canadians.
- [03:34]
Alanis Morissette
A moment of silence. Yes.
- [03:37]
Mayim Bialik
I would like to talk to you about everything forever. But in the time that we have with you, you know, there's so much that's going on now in your life that's super exciting. So maybe can we just like touch on a couple things and then we'll sort of go back in time and work our way back. Let's do it. You have a meditation album out which is called the Storm before the Calm. It is available on comm, but you can also get it elsewhere. Correct.
- [04:04]
Alanis Morissette
At other places that aren't so calm.
- [04:06]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, got it.
- [04:07]
Alanis Morissette
Yes.
- [04:08]
Mayim Bialik
You know, there's something that you posted on Twitter which I won't read back to you, but sort of about the necessity of kind of going into this space of I think the words used.
- [04:21]
Alanis Morissette
Yeah, restoration. Yeah.
- [04:22]
Mayim Bialik
Stillness and gentle inquiry. You know, in whatever way you feel kind of comfortable and inspired. What? You know, why this now and this way?
- [04:31]
Alanis Morissette
Well, there's a certain responsibility that I had to start taking very actively and consciously around my temperament, you know, because I've. I've had the privilege and luxury of having some very, I call it edge dwelling conversations with people who've been my teachers and mentors. And basically it got to the point where self care and the whole well being conversation, which beautifully became trendy over the last few years, it got to the point basically where self care was no longer a luxury. It wasn't, oh, this is a treat once every six months. Or it got to the point where that version of restoration and we all have different versions. You know, some of us it can be meditation. Some of us it could be specifically not meditation. Because at our point in what might be a trauma recovery journey, being left alone with our thoughts is not always the smartest way to go. So I qualify it a lot with this meditation record that being left alone Peter Levine talks about sort of. I don't know what the term was that he used, but it's something along the lines of anxiety induced relaxation.
- [05:34]
Mayim Bialik
This Peter Levine that I have the
- [05:35]
Alanis Morissette
book of right here, Moment of silence. Again. So, yes, basically, not everyone, you know, the panacea in terms of meditation and mindfulness. It's not actually the route for everybody in the world. So I'd like to qualify that. This meditation might not be the way. In fact, maybe a guided meditation or a Q and A or an inquiry with some support, some relationality thrown in there to make it a little bit more regulating than some. But for me, with music, sometimes that can be the portal into just getting to that state of witnessing and listening and inquiring and getting to the bottom of a lot of things that I have to have extreme safety to explore. And sometimes I find that certainly in my relationship, my friendships, my marriage sometimes. And then sometimes I'll find it in therapy. But the pay dirt moments of really getting to the bottom of some really intense stuff is usually around journaling and meditating and really listening and really asking the tougher question of my multiple parts that are showing up and attempting to act out.
- [06:38]
Mayim Bialik
So you're being very kind also to people who may not want to meditate. And I'd like to sort of put that.
- [06:44]
Alanis Morissette
You'd like to shame them? No, no, no.
- [06:45]
Mayim Bialik
Should we do it? No, I would like to create, you know, the safety that you create who may need more guidance. I'm going to sort of put that, you know, in a separate category. I'm not asking you to shame people, but I do want to know sort of just. And I'm not asking you to be the authority on all things meditation, but I've found this with people kind of with yoga, where they're like, I don't like yoga. I don't sit still. I don't do it. And I've heard this with meditation too. Like, that's not for me. My mind is too busy. But can you speak a little bit to. Not the category of people who, let's say, need other processes, you know, to go through to, you know.
- [07:21]
Alanis Morissette
Yeah, but to get wherever they're going.
- [07:23]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Exactly.
- [07:23]
Mayim Bialik
But for people who are just like that Sounds, you know, fill in the adjective. It sounds dumb. It sounds for hippies. It's not for me. I like kickboxing instead. What is the thing, that stillness, that silent, that learning to breathe, for example, what does that bring?
- [07:42]
Alanis Morissette
Well, if someone were to say, I get that through kickboxing, I would. My begged question in that moment would be, you get what? You know what. What does it provide for you? What does it make available to you? So it could just be that we're all chasing this hyper presence. So if staring at a candle does it for you, if listening to a certain kind of music does it for you, some people it's dancing. Some people it's exactly kickboxing or UFC watching or whatever it is. So I have no sense of the right way to do anything at this point, especially after becoming a mother. I had a lot of opinions before
- [08:14]
Podcast Narrator/Host
I was a mother.
- [08:15]
Mayim Bialik
That's the best time to have opinions about is when you don't have any.
- [08:18]
Alanis Morissette
When you don't have any. And I was riddled with many opinions. And then after I had children, I just stopped talking. Basically, I just started listening and empathizing really large. So what the meditative invitation really is, is can we be with what's going on in this moment? And for those of us who have traumas that aren't resolved or developmental stuff that hasn't been touched on yet, it can be overwhelming. It can flood the system, especially if you're sensitive. You know this as a neurobiologist, I'm assuming so. So just being responsible for what floods us, if we're highly sensitive, if we're empaths, if we haven't had enough time alone or we don't have enough support and the relationality of someone supporting us in a safe context. If we don't have that, there could be ways to tiptoe into that, maybe through a guided meditation. I definitely benefited from that. In my 20s, when I was touring alone in hotel rooms, I wasn't at a place where I could be left alone to my own devices without the voices in there getting really mean. So guided meditations were perfect for me because I could just follow, and I would notice that I'd start feeling regulated again. And then in that place of feeling somewhat calm, I always feel like resting is enlightenment, like if we can truly rest. That's when I think I ideally have all the access to whatever it is, art, clarity, clear on what to prioritize. It all becomes really clear for me when I have that state or that space. But so many of our Lifestyles now are such that we're just operating from such a flooded place, from overwhelm, you know, the so called invisible load of moms, which I would love to have be rendered visible, you know, just the details of what our minds are doing. And when I hear people say what. It sounds like you've heard a lot too, of. There's too much going on, I'm too busy. You know, you're right. We live in a culture now that is the norm. The set point seems to be overstimulation and that's just been normalized, which is not how we're built.
- [10:12]
Mayim Bialik
Right.
- [10:12]
Alanis Morissette
We're not built to take in that information and stay in that chronic revved red for that long.
- [10:17]
Mayim Bialik
It's interesting you mentioned music as sort of a portal for either meditation or contemplation. You know, there's people have different relationships with music and I'll just use your music as an example. Your music is very, very important to me and it speaks to a time. And I'm sure you, you know, there are people all over the freaking world, right. Who, who have specific associations, let's say, with, you know, your music. And for me it is. It's the lyrics, it's the time, it's how old I was, it's how I identified with you. You know, all the things that we put on you. Yep.
- [10:47]
Alanis Morissette
We're here to be projected upon. Anyway.
- [10:49]
Mayim Bialik
That's what I love it. Yeah. But you know, I've also. So I'm a fan of the Cocteau Twins, which is a very, very ethereal, you know, very music heavy, very lush. You don't even know if they're speaking English. But it doesn't really matter, you know, it doesn't matter.
- [11:04]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Right?
- [11:04]
Mayim Bialik
It doesn't matter. And I actually know all of the lyrics and I have no idea what I'm even saying, you know, for most of the songs of that genre of music that I love. But for meditation music, which I didn't even know is a thing until I started actively meditating and I use a free app. But what's interesting is, and I say this with all the love in my heart, you know, when I look at. You have 11 tracks, correct on. I think so, yeah. On this album. And I'm going to be super honest, I'm like, how different can they be? And then I looked at the titles and I was like, oh. You're like, oh, okay. So there's different things. But you know, when I think of meditation music, Jonathan, I think you'd agree it's like, you know, and then it, like, goes into. Which I also love.
- [11:47]
Alanis Morissette
But I was like, I need that desperately sometimes.
- [11:49]
Mayim Bialik
Well, and I thought, if Anyone can make 11 different tracks, it's Alanis Morissette of 11 different feelings or states of being.
- [11:57]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Correct.
- [11:58]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, so feelings, States of being. So I'm just gonna. There's 11 words everyone can be Patient, Light, Heart, Explore, Space, Purification, Restore, Awakening, Ground, Safety, Mania, and Vapor. Talk a little bit about sort of how this kind of evolved. Do you set out and say, I want to write something about explore, and I'm going to make it sound like Explore. Did you name them after. Is it about a state that you're in when you create them?
- [12:29]
Alanis Morissette
It's the inside out. And I appreciate that some people are really great at doing the outside in approach. I just can't do it if someone tells me intellectually how to create something that in some senses has to be done from this unfettered listening state. Listening and heeding is kind of the practice for me. But if someone gives me a sense. I remember years ago, someone at the record company said, I really need you to write a party song. And I was like, party song? Well, I could write a party song about my experience at a party and how scared to be social. And does that make me anti social. But the running joke is like, I can't be dictated what to do intellectually for a process that requires a full, somatic, receptive state. So with these songs, I wrote them and then later named them because I attempted to get a sense of what was being offered. And Mania was the one that was a little challenging for some people because it's counterintuitive to think that embracing chaos, you know, Dan Siegel, the rigidity, chaos continuum. Embracing chaos in some senses sounds extreme, which can sound really scary to those of us who are recovering from addictions or whatever it is. But for me, my experience, whether it's with movement, dancing, being on stage, is that really finding that groundedness inside the mania can be a really great release of energy. It can shift everything for me. So there's a tenacity that is asked of us, in theory, in this kind of chaotic musical expression. So somehow including the mania in the conversation is really an invitation for all these parts and all these voices and all these archetypes within me that are just sometimes fighting for the front seat of the car. You know, there's the mom, there's the rock star, there's the activist, there's the student, there's the scholar, there's the freak show. You know, like all these parts that just need a moment in the sun and they can all get really loud if I haven't spent enough time doing that inner dialoguing. And it's, you know, it's just waiting for me whenever I stop, whenever I get really still, it's all. They all just wait for mommy's attention.
- [14:37]
Jonathan Bialik
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Podcast Narrator/Host
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Mayim Bialik
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Mayim Bialik
I've even been able to use it
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Podcast Narrator/Host
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- [16:20]
Jonathan Bialik
My Mbialx Breakdown is supported by Odoo.
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Podcast Narrator/Host
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- [17:57]
Jonathan Bialik
Use our links in the episode description for the best deals possible and get started with Odoo today. Mayim Bialix Breakdown is supported by Bioptimizer.
- [18:08]
Podcast Narrator/Host
As I have been reflecting on the past year, I realized that one of the best discoveries of last year was Magnesium Breakthrough and how it's had a really, really positive impact on sleep. Jonathan and I discovered it a while ago and it's kind of become a non negotiable in our nighttime ritual. Better Sleep sounds simple, but the difference is real. You can fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer and wake up feeling rested. Those are the biggies. Not groggy, not drowsy, Genuinely rested. And here's why it works. Most supplements use cheap single form magnesium that your body just can't use. But this one has seven essential forms of magnesium with the Passport delivery system designed to help support magnesium absorption. The ripple effects are huge. I mean less stress during the day, better muscle recovery from workouts, even digestion has improved. And the real win is deep Restorative Sleep. That's the foundation that everything else builds on. Go to bioptimizers.com breaker use our exclusive code breaker for 15% off.
- [19:08]
Jonathan Bialik
If deep Sleep has been on your upgrade list, this is it. Trust us.
- [19:15]
Mayim Bialik
Well, and I think that's a. It's a good place to sort of, you know, take us back in time a little bit to sort of who you were before you were all those things to all of these people. You are from Canada. You're from. Name a city or a province. Jonathan, help me.
- [19:30]
Alanis Morissette
Ottawa, Ottawa, Ontario.
- [19:32]
Mayim Bialik
Ottawa, which is a city city in the province, capital, Ontario, the capital of Canada.
- [19:40]
Jonathan Bialik
People get really angry.
- [19:41]
Mayim Bialik
I'm sorry.
- [19:41]
Alanis Morissette
Edit that out.
- [19:42]
Mayim Bialik
I'm sorry. It's the capital of Canada. Of course it is. Everyone knows that.
- [19:45]
Jonathan Bialik
Exactly.
- [19:46]
Mayim Bialik
You also did something interesting as a child. You had a presence as a performer even when you were a youngin.
- [19:55]
Alanis Morissette
Yes.
- [19:55]
Mayim Bialik
And I don't want to label it too much, but you were part of, you know, a mainstream. I don't want to say generic, I don't mean it in a bad way, but like a mainstream.
- [20:06]
Alanis Morissette
I don't want to say it, but I'm going to say it.
- [20:07]
Mayim Bialik
No, no, no. Like, I don't mean generic like so gener. So basically.
- [20:10]
Alanis Morissette
I know what you mean.
- [20:11]
Mayim Bialik
I mean it was like mainstream. Yeah. You were part of a mainstream kind of. Yeah, here's the question.
- [20:17]
Alanis Morissette
Still am, but.
- [20:18]
Mayim Bialik
Right, but here's the question. Were you, you then in that different casing?
- [20:26]
Alanis Morissette
Yes. And it was a little bit more presentational. I don't think I was sophisticated enough in my emotional culling to be able to have written wildly autobiographical songs at 10.
- [20:39]
Mayim Bialik
Right.
- [20:40]
Alanis Morissette
Although I touched on some songs. There was a song that I wrote when I was 16 that started being more vulnerable. But to be perfectly honest, I was in environments where my songwriting prowess was not encouraged. So there were a lot of things that were focused on and encouraged. Songwriting was not one of them. And when I left the situation I was in in Canada and started fresh, for lack of a better term, in la, there was this freedom. It was just like a big open road. And there were no preconceived notions of what I'd done before in terms of genre. And I just basically integrated all of it. I love pop, I love cheese, I love, you know, self expression and non rhyming and experimenting with the voice like a paintbrush, you know. So basically eventually it all came out once I was in a different environment where the collaborators or producers just thought, okay, here's a woman who wants to express herself. How great. Let's support her.
- [21:35]
Mayim Bialik
I like to remind people, you know, this was a very different time. There really wasn't, like, an Internet as you know it. There'll always be someone who's like, the Internet began in 1932. Like, I don't know. But, yes, in terms of. Right. In terms of sort of where you were placed and where we all were at that, you know, point in time, we were still like, oh, my gosh, MTV is a thing. And they make TV shows, too, where they show you what happens behind the scenes of, like, we were still learning about the world, as it were. Yes. I graduated high school in 1993, and I was still working on Blossom up until I went to college two years later, I will say. I mean, there's many things that I can say. And it's also interesting because we have interacted socially outside of cameras. We're both part of a, you know, home birth, extended breastfeeding, holistic attachment parenting, homeschooling, unschooling kind of universe, you know, it's wonderful to have you here, and I hope it doesn't make you uncomfortable that I also, like, there's a fangirl element of.
- [22:36]
Alanis Morissette
No, I love it and me for you.
- [22:38]
Mayim Bialik
And also, I don't just say it like, oh, my God, I loved your music. Like, this was a time in my life when I had been, you know, on television for five years, since I was 14.
- [22:47]
Alanis Morissette
As a child.
- [22:48]
Mayim Bialik
As a child. You know, I was very young. Like, I started acting at 11. But, you know, there was a me inside that wanted to come out. You know, I was very, like, America's like, look, she's like a strange Jewish sweetheart. You know, Like, I was, you know, I was sort of.
- [23:03]
Jonathan Bialik
That's how I describe you now.
- [23:05]
Mayim Bialik
That's how I describe you is what's funny.
- [23:06]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Yes.
- [23:06]
Alanis Morissette
You've been consistent, by the way. That's right.
- [23:08]
Mayim Bialik
No, but I remember that, you know, the person inside of me who, the first time I heard Smells Like Teen Spirit, like, it was like my heart exploded. Like, what is this music? What is this consciousness? And, you know, for. For many of us, especially the feisty, the girls who had been called a bitch and who were teased for not shaving their armpits and their legs. Like, there was this person, you know, who sang about medication, which, like, was something I whispered about, you know, I've been in therapy, you know, since I'm 17, and, like, someone else is talking about medication and about, you know, things that back then nice girls didn't Talk about, you know.
- [23:49]
Alanis Morissette
Right.
- [23:49]
Mayim Bialik
Yes. And it was an extremely powerful moment, you know, for you to share that part of you. And, like, I had the middle part and the hair down to my tush. Like, I was so. No, but, like, I was so empowered by the fact that you existed. And I think that was the experience of a lot of females. And I can't believe it was 25 years ago also, because when I. And it's true, when I hear really anything off that album, I am right back, you know, I am right back in my room, alone, weeping, writing my sad poetry.
- [24:24]
Jonathan Bialik
What, this past weekend?
- [24:26]
Mayim Bialik
This past weekend also, I did.
- [24:27]
Alanis Morissette
Yeah. Just like last night. Yeah.
- [24:29]
Mayim Bialik
But when you sort of like, you know, when you look back at that time, did you know that's what you were gonna do for humanity?
- [24:39]
Alanis Morissette
What? I knew I'd seen images of my future in terms of just, you know, pictures, prophetic pictures in a personal way. So I'd seen myself. I'd envisioned touring the planet, traveling a ton. I had that bug instilled in me quite early on from my parents who lived to travel. So I saw myself traveling and performing and movement and sweat and some blood and tears. I saw all of that, and that's all I really saw. So I just kept showing up. I kept just keeping my eye on that prize without even being aware I was keeping my eye on any prize. I just kept those pictures alive. And actually, after a lot of them were made manifest, I actually didn't know where to go next. You know, all of a sudden, the pictures went dark, and I just thought, oh, am I supposed to die now? Is that what this means? No, I just needed a moment to regroup, and a lot of brass rings and all kinds of achievements, quote, unquote, had been reach. And that it begs the question, well, where do we go now? So I just kept going deeper and deeper within because interiority was so terrifying to me. I just thought, well, if it's that terrifying, I want to keep going. But I couldn't do it without therapists and friends and safe environments. So there's no way I could have moved forward. Although I did do a lot of workshops, and I'd show up for all these things that were not appropriate for me to be there in the sense that I wasn't really protecting myself very well. But I was so hungry for knowledge and hungry for ongoing education that I didn't care. So there was a bit of a carelessness to how I approached it. And when I say it, I mean the work that I was doing and the psychotherapeutic meets spiritual inquiry and showings up and, you know, following mentors and reading, reading my teacher's books cover to cover 12 times. And so I just felt like a real student.
- [26:24]
Mayim Bialik
Were you going into meditative trances to see things or was just this something that you. When you closed your eyes at night, could you picture it or did you feel a momentum? What did it feel like?
- [26:35]
Alanis Morissette
It was all of those things. It was a propulsion, almost like a catalystic push. Energetically, it was pictures. If I was quiet for a minute or if someone said, what do you want to be when you get older? Boom. I would see this just me traveling and touring and meeting a ton of people. I have the high novelty seeking sort of temperament combined with the shaky poodle, sensitive, empath, debilitated temperament. So I'm a wallflower that has, you know, some sassiness. So it's like a black stallion with a poodle temperament inside the black stallion.
- [27:13]
Jonathan Bialik
Let's talk about anger.
- [27:15]
Alanis Morissette
Yay.
- [27:16]
Jonathan Bialik
Your album was a representation or a communication of anger for many people who could not express it themselves. So mime and I have talked about anger before. Not to outer, but I tend to do that on this podcast.
- [27:29]
Mayim Bialik
I have an anger problem. Do you? I have a rage problem. So I. I only have. I have no anger or I have all the anger and it goes violent places.
- [27:40]
Alanis Morissette
Dude, that's. That's Canadian.
- [27:43]
Mayim Bialik
I've been waiting.
- [27:43]
Alanis Morissette
Honorary Canadian.
- [27:44]
Mayim Bialik
I've been waiting my whole life.
- [27:45]
Alanis Morissette
We tolerate. We tolerate so much. Tolerate, tolerate, tolerate. And people would credit me or praise me for being so highly tolerant. And I would say it's not awesome how much I tolerate, actually, because I don't set the boundaries until I'm imploding.
- [27:58]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah. And I also. I don't. I don't have any idea what, like, healthy anger looks like.
- [28:03]
Alanis Morissette
Well, it looks like punching a pillow rather than anger.
- [28:06]
Mayim Bialik
No, like, apparently you can. Like, this is a new thing. And I'm 46 years old, and just this last year, I learned that some people say things and they say, like, I'm angry about that. And they don't, you know, you. You don't name call or shame or scream, but, like, I'm angry about that. And then supposedly you can feel better after expressing that. I was like, what? It only feels better when I slam a door, break something, throw, or walk out.
- [28:30]
Alanis Morissette
Well, what if you get both going? Like, for me, because my son is at that age where, you know, I'm attempting to. To walk that fine line of containment is valuable. If you want to get along with people in the sandbox, but you don't want to contain to the point where you're repressing or sublimating, because then you will explode and we will act out and I will break something, maybe a bone or a glass or I don't, you know, and for me, a laptop. I think anger gets a laptop. Fill in the blank. So I think what happens along the way is that anger got a bad rep because it was associated with the destructing actings out of anger.
- [29:05]
Mayim Bialik
That's my fault. So I gave anger a bad name
- [29:07]
Alanis Morissette
because all of you, if you had done that, our planet would be in a completely different place. So I hope that you really go away and think about what you've done. No, I think, you know, as soon as someone says, you know, I have a rage problem or it feels terrifying, right? It's the lack of control. But the beauty of anger is that it catalyzes, it kickstarts things. It has us show up for activism. It has us be able to say no. You know, it has to show up. So I wouldn't want to eradicate anger as if we even could. It's more that how do I move it? You know, and for. In my family, I have to just put it into words. So I'll, you know, we have a freedom to use any words we want as long as it's not, you know, debasing to somebody. But we can, we can say whatever we need to say if we're putting it into words. And then physicality of it has to happen. Like attempting to say to a young person who has hormones running through them, or frankly, me, perimenopause hormones running through.
- [30:07]
Jonathan Bialik
I have that.
- [30:08]
Alanis Morissette
It's just like, okay, so I have all this anger. Even two nights ago, I just texted my husband and I said, you know, just for your sake, I'm raging right now and I love you and you need to stay away from me. And I mean, it's, you know, because I just. I'm just slightly feeling out of control. So I had enough wherewithal to at least isolate myself so that I could just rage out. And it looks like anything, it looks like punching. I can punch the bed. I did it last night when I'm just ragey, I just punch. So that helps. As long as.
- [30:37]
Mayim Bialik
Can I come over and punch your bed?
- [30:39]
Alanis Morissette
Yes, you can. Anytime you want.
- [30:42]
Jonathan Bialik
We have to sit with it. And it's like there's levels to it, right? If you suppress it, ignore it, say, I'm not supposed to Feel it or
- [30:50]
Alanis Morissette
someone invalidates it or.
- [30:51]
Jonathan Bialik
Yes, you're not supposed to be angry and intellectualize it. Then it, you know, eventually gets shoved down and it turns into rage. But, like, to be able to be like, I am feeling out of control right now, and that's an okay state to be in, as long as you're not acting out of control towards someone else.
- [31:06]
Alanis Morissette
Just. I mean, just don't hurt yourself. My. My whole thing, when any of us are raging and we're fire. You know, family's pretty fiery. I just go, don't hurt yourself and don't hurt the stuff.
- [31:16]
Mayim Bialik
You know, a lot of my anger and a lot of my rage is very old. Cause I collect it and I save it and.
- [31:24]
Alanis Morissette
Right.
- [31:25]
Mayim Bialik
It's like in my little knapsack.
- [31:27]
Alanis Morissette
And our families.
- [31:28]
Mayim Bialik
Right, Exactly.
- [31:29]
Alanis Morissette
Grand, grand, grand.
- [31:30]
Mayim Bialik
So. And there's like, there's definitely an intergenerational, you know, trauma aspect of it. But, you know, I think for women especially, you know, we learn other ways to turn it inward because women especially are not encouraged really to show, you know, those kind of emotions. And I talk a lot sadness and anger. Right. So I've talked here, you know, pretty openly about disordered eating, myself. And, you know, one of the ways that we feel in control because anger is. It's out of control. You know, one of the ways that we feel that way. Right. One of the ways that, you know, we try and have control is we'll either control other people, which is also.
- [32:09]
Alanis Morissette
Yeah, that's something go to. Right?
- [32:10]
Mayim Bialik
That's a go to. But, you know, beating up ourselves, you know, for many children especially, and, you know, children and teenagers, if you. If you turn it on yourself, it's the happiest dead end ever. Because no one's gonna point it out.
- [32:27]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Right.
- [32:27]
Mayim Bialik
Because you can. You can keep it inside. Right.
- [32:30]
Alanis Morissette
You can keep it quiet.
- [32:31]
Mayim Bialik
Correct. And no one needs to know. It feels like a very safe way to kind of process. But, you know, anger and resentment, those are the things like you can. If you list a hundred things that bother you, you could probably categorize all of them as either based in anger or resentment.
- [32:48]
Alanis Morissette
This episode is brought to you by
- [32:50]
Mayim Bialik
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Alanis Morissette
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Mayim Bialik
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Alanis Morissette
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Jonathan Bialik
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- [33:36]
Alanis Morissette
Predator
- [33:37]
Jonathan Bialik
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- [33:39]
Mayim Bialik
on Disney plus here. You're not the predator, you're the prey. Pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, pray, pray. Critics are saying it's epic, stunning and breathtaking. Many have come here, none have survived.
- [34:01]
Jonathan Bialik
Predator Badlands now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney.
- [34:04]
Mayim Bialik
Rated PG 13. You've been open, talking about kind of disordered eating. And I do wonder, you know, for you, do you think of that separate from your role kind of publicly and in the industry? Is that something that was a way that, you know, you think you would have kind of chosen or was there extra kind of pressure that way because of what you were experiencing, especially as a young woman?
- [34:25]
Alanis Morissette
You mean subject to the. To the messaging? You have to look like 2% of the planet. I think it was compounded by being in the public eye. Even to this day, there are times where I forget that I'm even a body. I'm not obsessed with mirrors. So we don't have very many in my home. So I'm trying to add more because as a kid, it's actually valuable to dance in front of a mirror. So I'm adding mirrors. I think what wound up happening was it was already something happening in the patriarchal context of the planet that women are supposed to look like this 2%. And men too, have the same challenges, but it's so much more compounded because of the context of patriarchy. So these women were basically being told. I was being told, we were being told that 2% of the planet, the other 98% of the planet has to look like that. So the giant pervasive messaging is there's something wrong with you and here's what you have to chase. And it's nothing like how you were born to be.
- [35:19]
Mayim Bialik
Tell us what the 2% is. Are you talking dress size? Are you talking. Okay, gotcha. No, I just want you to be specific.
- [35:25]
Alanis Morissette
Abs that are pronounced low body fat. You know, and every era has its different indication of what, you know, quote unquote, beauty is of that decade or whatever.
- [35:34]
Mayim Bialik
It's usually thin, right? Or right, yeah. Meaning like The Marilyn Monroe, you know, era is long over and we are well into a different, you know, era.
- [35:43]
Alanis Morissette
Yes and no. Right, right. It's like, oh, we still have the dress that we're trying to fit into. That's right. You know, so it's. The pressure is the same. It gets even more so now because of social media in general being about. I think of social media as the storefront in New York at Christmas time. It's presentational by its very nature. It's presentational. But what's the message that we're sending? That there's a standard by which to measure yourself, whether it's academically, aesthetically, chronologically, spiritually, in terms of success is defined oddly and unusually and randomly at times. So in some ways the message being sent is who you are. And the essence of who you are is not enough. And it's wrong. So here we're going to show you how to be good. And it sets up this whole binary, extreme, unrealistic, immoderate impossibility. So we spend the rest of our lives beating ourselves up because we're not some standard. And then what, on our DeathBed at this point, 150, we're going to be thinking, God, I missed the whole experience because I felt like everything I was doing was wrong or I was looking wrong or speaking in a wrong way or whatever it is. So just giving a little bit more freedom now to just go, okay, so what's the difference between feeling cute and adhering to a standard? What has me feel alive in a non wildly medicated way? Like if me taking a shower or me doing cryotherapy or whatever it is that I do in my rituals, if it brings back a sense of excitement and passion and curiosity and hyper presence, then great, that works. It's not destructive. It won't kill me.
- [37:26]
Mayim Bialik
So my. Well, Jonathan and I both separately have a 14 year old and then I also have an almost 17 year old. And you know, there was something we were talking about the other day, you know, because you know, their generation is very, especially we live in Los Angeles, so they're very, very hyper aware about being open. You know, when you talk about things like choice feminism or really just choice existing, you know, and my boys, we were talking about it and they were asking seriously, like, well, what if someone wants to blah blah, blah. And I said, here's my rule, I have no problem if someone wants to blah blah blah. The question is, is the reason they're doing something? Because the culture has already decided that that's the way you get success, be attractive. You know, if someone says, I'd like to shave my eyebrows and pencil them in, by all means, have a great time. But this is a totally random example. But if it is that society has told us we have to shave our eyebrows, like, that's the only way to look attractive. That's where I say we have to kind of question that.
- [38:25]
Alanis Morissette
And I think the same question the indoctrinations and the messagings from way pre. Pre birth. At this point, the messaging is there.
- [38:32]
Mayim Bialik
I wanted you to speak to that also in the spiritual realm, because this is something that you started talking about, you know, and even with. Thank you.
- [38:40]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Right.
- [38:40]
Mayim Bialik
You brought an awareness that a lot of people weren't yet ready to embrace. And. And, you know, I feel like in many ways, you were very ahead of your time in terms of that kind of mindfulness, that kind of this has been a whirlwind. I need to regroup. And it was done very consciously and in a really meaningful way. And I'm curious, as you think about sort of your journey, you know, from this kind of explosion that you had to then trying to calibrate, like, who am I really in the face of all this? How do you see that in terms of sort of what in many cases is like a pop psych and sort of trendy notion of, like, spirituality or, like, wear these clothes to have the best, you know, meditative experience? I'm curious what you see, because you really were ahead of your time with that kind of consciousness.
- [39:27]
Alanis Morissette
Oh, thank you. And I think the consciousness that you might be speaking to is a degree of. I don't know if you do the enneagram stuff. Of course I do. I'm a four with a five wing.
- [39:39]
Mayim Bialik
Of course you are. I'm a four as well. Yeah.
- [39:41]
Alanis Morissette
Yes. Are you. Do you know what your wing is?
- [39:43]
Mayim Bialik
I can't remember my wing. I've known it.
- [39:45]
Alanis Morissette
Personal question.
- [39:45]
Mayim Bialik
I don't think it's a five. I feel. I think, well, maybe a three. Well, at my healthiest, I look more like a one, which is kind of funny. At my unhealthiest, I'm the most unhealthy four you've ever seen. And that's kind of where I resonate. Yeah, that's where I resonate four.
- [40:01]
Alanis Morissette
And then. So the five is really about the observer.
- [40:05]
Mayim Bialik
Right.
- [40:05]
Alanis Morissette
And ever since I was even pre verbal, I just remember just watching humans. So fascinating to me whether, you know, you might relate to this one, whether it's the brain or the stomach or the proprioception. Or the feelings or the sublimation or the messages or the patriarchy or the context or the sh. I was just. There's just. It's like a candy store for me. The humanity thing is rugged and beautiful and terrifying, you know? So for me, I just always felt like I was observing everything, to bring it home in some ways, process it and then comment. Comment through a photo, comment through a song, comment through a keynote talk, comment through a conversation. So just continuing to show up to comment and bouncing between the micro and the macro. So zooming in on the. I need to make sure I get to the audition on time for the school musical with my son. All the way out to what is self expression in the world? And how can we comment on that and invite people in to feel safe? So just bouncing between the two. And if I don't do micro or macro enough, if I'm serving publicly, I really do feel like something's missing. And if I'm not serving privately and quietly, something's missing. So as best as I can anyway, I attempt to keep those moderately cooking along as I go.
- [41:22]
Mayim Bialik
It was really, really lovely to get to connect with you this way. We super appreciate it and so great
- [41:27]
Alanis Morissette
to speak with you too. I think so highly of you. Whenever I hear your name in the world, I just go, yes.
- [41:31]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, thank you. I hope you're here. Well, hopefully our paths will cross again. Thank you so much.
- [41:35]
Alanis Morissette
That's awesome.
- [41:35]
Mayim Bialik
Thanks. Alrighty. Bye.
- [41:39]
Jonathan Bialik
Is that what I sound like? She sounds Canadian. I can hear it.
- [41:42]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, that's what you sound like.
- [41:43]
Jonathan Bialik
I never think I sound Canadian, but when I'm listening to her, I'm like,
- [41:46]
Mayim Bialik
oh, she's such an Ottawa hick.
- [41:50]
Jonathan Bialik
No, that's putting words in my mouth. But I was like, yes.
- [41:53]
Mayim Bialik
She said, that's what you sound like a boat. A boat. A boat, a boat.
- [41:56]
Jonathan Bialik
So there was a time period where I was, like, living in LA for, I don't know, like five years. I thought I was totally.
- [42:01]
Mayim Bialik
You sound more Canadian. Because we were speaking to her now
- [42:04]
Jonathan Bialik
and I went to the Trader Joe's checkout and I was chatting with this guy and he says to me, where are you from? And I'm like, what? He totally thought I was from somewhere else.
- [42:13]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, you are Canadian and you sound Canadian and she does too.
- [42:17]
Jonathan Bialik
I know it's a blind spot. I don't hear it. Oh, hey. I don't know if I accept that as a accurate depiction of us, but I can hear it.
- [42:28]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, there's a lot of cool Canadians, but she's up there. She is up there.
- [42:34]
Jonathan Bialik
It's a high bar to ascend to.
- [42:35]
Mayim Bialik
She dated Ryan Reynolds. He's also Canadian. That's like a royalty years ago. That is Canadian royalty.
- [42:42]
Jonathan Bialik
What was her emotional state when writing this anthem that expressed all the anger for all the people who couldn't express the anger. Was she angry when writing it? Like what?
- [42:53]
Mayim Bialik
I'll answer that for her. Yes.
- [42:55]
Jonathan Bialik
All right, great. Let's move on.
- [42:56]
Mayim Bialik
Yep. No, I would have liked to know more about that. Well, I think I was kind of hinting at that when I asked. Like, when she was kind of, you know, squeaky clean, more like pop, you know, in her youth, that person was growing, you know, in there.
- [43:09]
Jonathan Bialik
There was the anti culture.
- [43:11]
Mayim Bialik
I think girls and women all over the world in particular identified with that and many boys and men. But she really was ahead of her time in terms of the way she presented herself and the way she. The way she wrote, the way she appeared publicly. Most of the place where I feel her music is. This is gonna sound super specific. It happened when we were listening to youo Oughta Know, and as I'm looking over the lyrics to my favorite song, you learn from that album, there's chills that comes up only the back of the left side of my head, and it wraps around my ear. I don't know why. That's my Alanis Tangle. The reason there's. Let's trademark that there is something that happens. And you know, I am a. I care about lyrics in a way that sometimes other people don't.
- [44:01]
Jonathan Bialik
Caveat being that she's memorized every lyric of almost every song she's ever heard, even if she's only heard it once.
- [44:07]
Mayim Bialik
So that's not fair to say that I memorized it. That sounds like an active process.
- [44:10]
Jonathan Bialik
Oh, no, no. It just goes in there.
- [44:11]
Mayim Bialik
It is memorized.
- [44:12]
Jonathan Bialik
It doesn't come out. And I don't know how you actually memorize it. You just hear it once, and it just stays in there.
- [44:17]
Mayim Bialik
Not once. But I have a very strange auditory memory. I also have a vaguely photographic memory, but that's not how I learned lyrics,
- [44:26]
Jonathan Bialik
but check out the Instagram page where I'm gonna post how she reads a book.
- [44:31]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, so the thing that happens, though, she's a robot. There's something that happens with certain chord progressions and certain melodies that do something different in my brain than other things. I will give you examples of this, and you are welcome to look these up. There's a song called Suit of Lights by the great Elvis Costello. It is on an album called King of America, which came out Just Want to Be. Just wanna. What year was king? 1986. So in 1986, this album came out, King of America. And I did not know of this album in 1986. I was 11 years old and whatever. When I first heard this song, Suit of Lights by Elvis Costello, the first time I heard it, I said, I know this song. I know this song. Like, this must be a cover of some song that I have been listening to since before the universe was even created. Like, it felt that deep.
- [45:27]
Jonathan Bialik
You downloaded it in your consciousness before listening.
- [45:30]
Mayim Bialik
I don't know. But there's something that happens in that. Whatever that is with my brain. I don't think it's everybody's brain but that song. And I've had this with a handful of. Of music in my life. And there is something about the last line before each chorus in this song, you learn, that just makes my soul do a flip flop. The first one is Wait until the dust settles. And the way she says it, you wait until the dust settles. She does that whole pretty thing. She does it with. Wait until the dust settles. She does it with. You wait and see when the smoke clears and there's something. It's. Right now I have chills.
- [46:08]
Jonathan Bialik
Do it again for us.
- [46:09]
Mayim Bialik
Do it again. No, please. You wait and see when the smoke all clears. It's so pretty. Anyway, not the way I sing it. The way she sings it. And the final one is the fire trucks are coming up around the bend. And they're. Fire trucks are coming up around the bend. Anyway, there's something about the way she sings the chord progression that's leading to the chorus. It just. It does something to me that is very. I don't know, it's very elaborate. It's very emotional. It makes me cry. And I. It's not that I don't love the song, but there's something about the dust settling and the smoke clearing and fire trucks. It's like. Oh, just gets me every time. Ugh. Anyway, what do you feel that's. I don't know.
- [46:57]
Podcast Narrator/Host
I feel chills.
- [47:00]
Jonathan Bialik
And it makes you think of.
- [47:01]
Mayim Bialik
I don't.
- [47:02]
Podcast Narrator/Host
It's
- [47:04]
Mayim Bialik
like, if I really am honest about what it reminds me of, there's something about feeling like my personality, who I am, is something that has to be deciphered and is dangerous. I don't know if that's what she intended, but that's what it means to me. And I also think what a tremendous responsibility it is to be a singer or a Writer or really any kind of person that's putting yourself out there. Because I have this, like, deep emotional connection to something that she wrote that she may have been thinking about. Who knows what? But that becomes my experience. And every single. And I make my children shut up. When this song comes on the radio and I sing really loud and she sings higher than me, so it's not so pretty, but I feel it very deeply. I start to cry like I just did.
- [47:50]
Jonathan Bialik
The power of that is, for me is that there is some chaos. You associate it to your personality. I associated it to that. Like, there's gonna be some emergency in our life at some point and it's gonna be all fucked up, no matter what that is. And we all have had that messed up moment that, like, the fire trucks are coming for. Like, that's just like, oh, no, bad things are happening and you can't get away. You can't get away from it.
- [48:19]
Mayim Bialik
Also, when she says melt it down, there's some. It's like. It just gives me chills. There's something about. She says, melt it down. You're gonna have to eventually anyway. And I always. I think of goals. I think of gold being melted down. Like, taking.
- [48:31]
Jonathan Bialik
I think of our current reality. Nothing we think is real. She has a great line that we didn't talk about. And I'll use this opportunity of you fumbling with technology to get it in. We're here to be projected upon.
- [48:45]
Mayim Bialik
Well, I think she meant we public people.
- [48:48]
Jonathan Bialik
No, I mean everyone.
- [48:49]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, no, that was just for me. That wasn't for you. You think it's everybody.
- [48:56]
Jonathan Bialik
It's human interaction, the people around us, we project our reality onto them and they.
- [49:01]
Mayim Bialik
Why can't you let me and Alanis have something that's just ours? Yeah. I mean to say that we are all kind of living that experience of other people's expectations, judgments, realities. What do I project on you?
- [49:12]
Jonathan Bialik
Oh, so many things. I have to remind myself. My version of Alanna saying, how are we? I have to remind myself, just because I can't meet someone else's need doesn't mean that they're needy. Wow. Crickets is very.
- [49:30]
Mayim Bialik
Just because you can't meet someone else's need, it doesn't mean they're needy.
- [49:33]
Jonathan Bialik
No, it doesn't mean that. Because it's easy for me to be like, oh, someone else has a problem if I'm not able to rise to an expectation.
- [49:43]
Mayim Bialik
When someone has a need that you can't meet, to be like, you're so needy. It's like Saying someone, you're so sensitive. When someone's expressing that they're upset about something. Well, you're so sensitive. Exactly. That's interesting.
- [49:53]
Jonathan Bialik
The other thing to circle back on.
- [49:55]
Mayim Bialik
You didn't ask what I project on you.
- [49:58]
Jonathan Bialik
Everything. No.
- [49:59]
Mayim Bialik
Well, I think a lot of us in relationships project our relationships with our parents.
- [50:04]
Jonathan Bialik
Oh, yeah. The line that if the person you're with isn't your parent or isn't like your parent, you will turn them into them.
- [50:14]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Right.
- [50:16]
Mayim Bialik
So like I can bring all the dysfunction for the entire couple.
- [50:21]
Jonathan Bialik
So when you go to try to find a partner, they say you're gonna find someone like your parents. And the rub is that even if they're not like your parents, over time, because you're working out the stuff with your parents, you're gonna turn that person into aspects of your parents.
- [50:35]
Mayim Bialik
Right. Well.
- [50:36]
Jonathan Bialik
Or you will project or you will project so that they become, and they reflect back to you aspects of. Of your parent and the stuff that you need to work on with them. The other thing that she said was about truly resting and still points and if we can actually have real serious rest. That's when she talked about having intuition. You're getting upset. I can see your face.
- [50:57]
Mayim Bialik
I'm not upset.
- [50:58]
Jonathan Bialik
You're getting your faces doing that thing again. Because she talks about being powered by all the information around us and that we're like charged.
- [51:08]
Mayim Bialik
So tell us, what do you think she meant? What is truly resting?
- [51:11]
Jonathan Bialik
I think most people pass out versus rest. I mean, I think most of us go to the point of exhaustion not to. Or numb out or numb out. Not to pick on Scott. We were talking about sleep patterns and routines and he was talking about it's okay to say that he watches YouTube and he puts a timer on his YouTube and that gets him to sleep. And I know a lot of people.
- [51:31]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, I don't even put a timer. Sometimes I wake up at three in the morning and some show is on that I wasn't even watching.
- [51:35]
Jonathan Bialik
What is truly resting? Me.
- [51:38]
Mayim Bialik
Yes, Jonathan. What does truly resting mean?
- [51:39]
Jonathan Bialik
That's the question. When are we in a place where we get out of the bubble of the constant stimulation that we're all surrounded in and we're not so exhausted that we just pass out and become unconscious.
- [51:50]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah. So science has already answered this question.
- [51:52]
Jonathan Bialik
Huberman calls it deep rest, non sleep.
- [51:55]
Mayim Bialik
Science actually has.
- [51:56]
Jonathan Bialik
Tell me about science. Because you're the spokesperson.
- [51:58]
Mayim Bialik
I don't. Yeah, no, I don't like to be like. Well, science will tell you when you're resting, however, have you ever gone to the doctor and they take your blood pressure right when you get there and you've just like run from the bathroom or like you were late or you were like looking at your DMs on Instagram, or fighting with your boyfriend or your mom or whoever, and they take your blood pressure and it's not, it's not low. And you know, there's, I don't think there's any medical authority, no matter what side of holistic or not, that you were on, that would say that a high heart rate or a high, you know, blood pressure reading is an indication of rest. So what I know is I have learned to control, to be able to regulate my breathing so that I can effectively lower my blood pressure. There's also a lot of things we can do to lower our blood pressure. In general, there are a lot of dietary things we can do to lower our blood pressure. The times when I've done a raw flush and eaten raw, my blood pressure has been consistently unbelievable. Like I'm awake and alive. I have plenty of energy. But that's a great example of where science knows that's one of the markers. And there's incredible labs doing other research on, you know, the electrical signals that come off your head and brain.
- [53:09]
Jonathan Bialik
I'm more interested in that because that is for me a next level of truly.
- [53:14]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Yeah, there's different, there's waves, there's waves.
- [53:17]
Jonathan Bialik
There's something called a still point in different types of somatic work and cranial sacral therapy.
- [53:25]
Mayim Bialik
What's the still point?
- [53:25]
Alanis Morissette
Tell us.
- [53:26]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Us.
- [53:26]
Jonathan Bialik
So the still point is when the body literally goes into a reparative function. And so if you're able to track the, you know, in craniosacral therapy, you're tracking a pulse that the body has,
- [53:37]
Mayim Bialik
which Chinese medicine also does, which we know.
- [53:41]
Jonathan Bialik
It's not the heartbeat, it's not the, it's not the respiratory.
- [53:46]
Mayim Bialik
What is it? You have, you, you have done years and years of hands on work. What does that feel like when you're working with someone? Can you tell when they hit that?
- [53:54]
Jonathan Bialik
So I'm. It's hard to describe in audio, but in video, I'm sort of taking my hands right now and they're sort of being held apart from one another and there's a slow pulsation that happens where it expands and then it comes back together.
- [54:07]
Mayim Bialik
Where's the pulsing?
- [54:08]
Jonathan Bialik
The pulsing is in the cerebral spinal fluid in the, in the person. And you can feel the movement of that sensation and it goes out and it goes In. And people will have different, different pace for each individual. And sometimes the left is greater and sometimes the right is greater. And when a still point happens, that motion actually pauses and the body goes into what can only be described as like a bit of a hard reset. It pauses, and then the person's awake. The person's awake. Often what they feel like is that they're riding the sensation between being awake and being asleep.
- [54:45]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, got it.
- [54:46]
Jonathan Bialik
And there is this moment right before you fall asleep that often when you're getting this type of bodywork and you're in a reparative function, that it's this very, very deep rest. And your mind is kind of gone away from its normal narrative and consciousness that it has. And it's not dreaming yet, but it's in an altered state. And this is a still point.
- [55:06]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, so what you're also describing physiologically is have you ever had too much caffeine? And that rattly feeling that you get, you know, when you feel jittery at all? And this is the thing, most people don't even know to tune into their body. If you tune into your body and you learn to sort of like, listen, if you can feel that there's like a pulse to your breathing, you're not in true rest. That's not resting.
- [55:28]
Podcast Narrator/Host
If you.
- [55:28]
Mayim Bialik
And that's right, I am. Now the.
- [55:30]
Alanis Morissette
So this is different than what wizard of rest.
- [55:32]
Jonathan Bialik
This is the. Different than what I'm talking about.
- [55:34]
Mayim Bialik
No, no, no. But I'm saying, right, I'm saying these are all indications that you're not getting towards that. Or, you know, if. When you have your blood pressure taken and it feels like it's like beating, beating, beating. Not in rest yet. If you try to meditate or if you're in Shavasana in yoga, if you feel a racing heartbeat, racing thoughts, those are all indicators that your brain is working. It's being cognitive. That's not a resting place.
- [55:56]
Jonathan Bialik
Sometimes people can get to this state when they just lay down for a nap. And if you even have your hands just resting on your solar plexus or on your chest and you were monitoring your breathing, you can hit that place in between awake and asleep and kind of ride that moment for a while.
- [56:11]
Mayim Bialik
But some people do have a hard time in that space because it can be scary to go in and out of what feels like sleep, but it's not really sleep. But what I wanted to say is that for thousands and thousands of years, Chinese medicine in particular has known about these things and all the different kinds of Pulses that you can have. Right. Did you know that there's 16 kinds of pulses or something in Chinese medicine?
- [56:33]
Jonathan Bialik
If anyone has experienced acupuncture and gone to a great practitioner. When I experience acupuncture, if I'm open and I'm able to calm down, I will often go into that place of sort of being in between states and sort of lose track of time and space.
- [56:50]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah. So craniosacral therapy is where I've experienced this, where you go to a place that is different from awake and it's different from asleep, but you can come to and feel like you napped for, like, three hours. Like you feel amazing.
- [57:04]
Jonathan Bialik
What I think is, you know, curious about. When you say people don't always feel comfortable in that space. That space, in my humble opinion, is. And this is not a scientific answer. We have access to all the information about our lives.
- [57:20]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Oh, my.
- [57:21]
Jonathan Bialik
Meaning.
- [57:21]
Mayim Bialik
What does that mean?
- [57:22]
Jonathan Bialik
You know the book the Body Keeps Score?
- [57:25]
Podcast Narrator/Host
Yes.
- [57:26]
Jonathan Bialik
And this idea that we have information about what has happened to us, what we have experienced beyond what we are consciously able to access when we drop into that.
- [57:37]
Mayim Bialik
Do you mean other lives?
- [57:39]
Jonathan Bialik
I don't. I wasn't going there. I was meaning more memory than we can access in a conscious state.
- [57:45]
Alanis Morissette
Got it.
- [57:45]
Mayim Bialik
Okay, Got it.
- [57:46]
Jonathan Bialik
That. That altered state of consciousness, that deep rest state, is a place that is beyond the limits of our normal cognition,
- [57:56]
Mayim Bialik
which is why a lot of people don't like to go there.
- [57:58]
Jonathan Bialik
That's what I would posit, is that people who have unmetabolized trauma, who have things that they're dealing with, which we all do to some degree, that is a place that your awareness can really expand and open up. And from a physical somatic level, we begin to surface things that then the mind can catch up to. But it's almost a physiological led reset versus an intellectual probing of understanding our experience.
- [58:25]
Mayim Bialik
I think EMDR has allowed people to access this in a lot of ways.
- [58:31]
Jonathan Bialik
Yes. The slight difference in my understanding of EMDR is that you pick a specific moment and then you bring in the psycho. The somatic experience, and you map the somatic experience to allow the body to process whatever the memory is. And so you start with intellect and then go into the body. This, on the other hand, is allowing the body to do whatever it needs to and almost taking the intellect out of the picture, which can be terrifying for people. All that to say is that some form of deep rest practice and accessing that level of our unconscious. I know you don't like that word.
- [59:09]
Alanis Morissette
I do.
- [59:10]
Jonathan Bialik
Oh, you do?
- [59:10]
Mayim Bialik
I don't like subconscious.
- [59:12]
Jonathan Bialik
Oh, great. The exploration of unconscious. Because when she talks about seeing images and the intuition that she had about what her life would entail, I mean, in many ways that's extremely helpful because it acts as a guiding post to say, like, oh, I should keep going at this because I have something. Not that I'm working towards an end state to fulfill those images, but if we probed a little bit more with her, I would imagine that those images had a sensorial attachment to them. Meaning that, like, when she had those images of her on tour, or, like, that matched aspects of her personality that she probably felt extremely seen by. So if I have, for example, an image of me being super creative or something like that, I'd be like, oh, I kind of feel like whatever I'm doing, I'm moving towards that. And if I feel really positive in that space based on that image, then I'm gonna be like, oh, my life has an alignment that feels on track.
- [60:14]
Mayim Bialik
I don't wanna gloss over, but we've already talked about so many things. Her mention of the Enneagram. I Recommend going to enneagraminstitute.com if you'd like to learn more about it. The Enneagram is, to put it lightly, it is a personality kind of assessment. And there are nine different types. And chances are you fall into one of these categories. And there's to do the full Enneagram test. It's a lot of questions. You're technically supposed to test for every single one of the nine, and it's a lot of questions. But there are shorter tests you can do. Alanis and I are a four.
- [60:46]
Jonathan Bialik
Do you remember what happened when we tried to pick my Enneagram?
- [60:50]
Mayim Bialik
Jonathan is so terminally unique, he can't even pick one. Not true.
- [60:54]
Jonathan Bialik
No. The funny part for me was that you had a strong belief of a certain type of Enneagram. I was gonna be.
- [61:00]
Mayim Bialik
Well, here's the thing. This is really hard to talk about. The thing about Enneagram. Well, there are actually Enneagram therapists who specifically are trained in this style of analysis. Because. Because what this is, is the most accurate personality test I have ever experienced. And it is very rarely. It has very rarely let me down in terms of helping me better understand people based on the type that they fall into. The thing about.
- [61:32]
Jonathan Bialik
Go on.
- [61:33]
Mayim Bialik
The thing about taking the Enneagram tests and figuring out which you are, if you have a certain perception of yourself.
- [61:40]
Jonathan Bialik
Okay, I'm going to jump in right here because you're going to put your foot in your mouth. You didn't think that my perception of myself, my self awareness allowed me to answer the questions honestly, right?
- [61:53]
Alanis Morissette
That's true.
- [61:55]
Jonathan Bialik
But we went to one person in March 2020 and I got the same result. And then you kind of answered the questions for me because you still had
- [62:06]
Mayim Bialik
the same lack of self aware and
- [62:08]
Jonathan Bialik
got the same result. But then we went to an expert who validated the first person.
- [62:13]
Mayim Bialik
They don't know what it's like to be with you.
- [62:17]
Jonathan Bialik
If people want to practice their own deep rest, they should try doing it with Alanis's album.
- [62:21]
Mayim Bialik
Yes, her meditation album is called the Storm before the Calm, which also I think is a John Mayer lyric from Slow Dancing in a Burning Room.
- [62:31]
Jonathan Bialik
Also I really like that title because there is a lot of storm before a comm.
- [62:34]
Mayim Bialik
There is a lot of storm before a comm. It is out now, also available on comm. And I also wanna mention we didn't even get to talk to Alanis about this. She's in the middle of a European headline tour celebrating 25 years of jagged Little Pill. And it's a musical. Go to alanis.com for information on all of these things. And was there something else? Hold on one second. Yeah, those are the highlights.
- [63:04]
Jonathan Bialik
And we're gonna practice our own deep
- [63:06]
Podcast Narrator/Host
rest from our breakdown to the one
- [63:08]
Mayim Bialik
we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.
- [63:10]
Jonathan Bialik
It's Maya Bialik's breakdown.
- [63:12]
Mayim Bialik
She's gonna break it down for you.
- [63:14]
Jonathan Bialik
She's got a neuroscience PhD or two one fiction and now she's gonna break
- [63:19]
Mayim Bialik
down so break down.
- [63:21]
Jonathan Bialik
She's gonna break it down.