← Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
Mayim Bialik's Breakdown
Re-Air: Why Our Current News Media is in the Toilet & How the Legendary Connie Chung Changed Media
01:23:47
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- [00:00]
Connie Chung
Foreign
- [00:04]
Jonathan Cohen
Bialix breakdown is supported by Helix Sleep.
- [00:07]
Mayim Bialik
Spring is in the air, and so are all of the allergens that come with it. I know. I'm starting to feel them already. Spring allergens mean you need more sleep, but there are a ton of factors that can prevent us from getting good night's rest. Talk about night sweats, back pain, feeling the person next to you when they roll over. We can't tell you how excited we were to hear that Helix wanted to partner with us years ago after all of the incredible feedback we'd heard about them over the years. I've had my Hel Helix for about five years now, and I've been sleeping pretty good. Jonathan and my kids also love their Helix mattresses and all of those issues. Night sweats, back pain, motion transfer. Those things are significantly better. We highly recommend taking the Helix Sleep Quiz like we did to find your perfect mattress in under two minutes. Everyone sleeps differently, and we're confident you'll find a Helix mattress model specifically designed for your specific sleep positions and field preferences. I took the Helix Sleep Quiz and I was matched with the midnight mattress because I like something a little firm and I mostly sleep on my side. Jonathan is a Twilight person. Our mattresses, though, are an absolute major upgrade from our last ones. Their models with memory foam layers provide optimal pressure relief and cradle your body in the areas that need it most. And it's the perfect combination of comfort and support. Jonathan loves the cooling feature of his Helix mattress. Keeps him from overheating at night. Go to helixsleep.com breakdown for 27% off.
- [01:29]
Jonathan Cohen
Exclusive for our listeners of Mindbelix Breakdown. That's helixsleep.com breakdown For 27% off site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so that they know that
- [01:42]
Mayim Bialik
we sent you helixsleep.com breakdown.
- [01:47]
Jonathan Cohen
Reggie, I just sold my car online.
- [01:49]
Mayim Bialik
Let's go, grandpa.
- [01:50]
Connie Chung
Wait, you did? Yep.
- [01:52]
Mayim Bialik
On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.
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Connie Chung
You don't say.
- [02:00]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast. Wow. Way to go.
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Jonathan Cohen
So about that picture frame.
- [02:07]
Mayim Bialik
Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested. Car selling made easy on Carvana. Pick up. These may apply. I'm Mayim Bialik.
- [02:17]
Jonathan Cohen
And I'm Jonathan Cohen.
- [02:18]
Mayim Bialik
And welcome to our Breakdown. Today we have something very special. In honor of Women's History Month, we are going to revisit a fantastic episode from 2024 with legendary journalist Connie Chung. She was a trailblazing journalist for NBC, cbs, abc. She shattered glass ceilings. She paved the way for many women and especially for Asian women, particularly in
- [02:45]
Jonathan Cohen
this day and age where journalism has changed so much. No matter what side of the political aisle you're on, news has a bend to it. It has an objective. Often, very rarely is it just reporting facts without a narrative associated with this. And Connie brings us back to a time period where there was an honor amongst journalists to just provide us with the facts and allow us to make up our own minds.
- [03:13]
Mayim Bialik
We're especially thrilled to revisit this episode right now. Connie made history when she became the first woman to co anchor the CBS Evening News and the first Asian to anchor any news program in the country. An entire generation of women were actually named after her in the Asian community. And we got to speak to Connie about so many aspects of her life. Covering Watergate, interviewing Magic Johnson, and how she conquered the male dominated realms of journalism and politics, the way she combated sexism in the newsroom, and her deep desire to be one of the guys. She also talks about abuse she suffered at the hands of a doctor when she was a young woman. It's a fantastic episode, and we can't wait to share it for you in honor of Women's History Month.
- [03:58]
Jonathan Cohen
As a friendly reminder, come check out Substack Mind Bialik's breakdown on Substack. Just type it into the app. Come find us. There is content there that you cannot get anywhere else.
- [04:07]
Mayim Bialik
And now we hope you enjoy taking a look at our episode with Connie Chung. Break it down. It's such an honor to get to talk to you. We're, we're thrilled that we get to interview the great interviewer. And I said to Jonathan, I feel incredibly intimidated because, I mean, I literally, I grew up watching you. I was born in 1975 and I was, you know, raised in a home where we read the New York Times and we watched the news. That's what happened in our house. And you were such a powerful image, obviously, for so many of many generations. But in particular, you know, for someone of my age growing up, you know, in Hollywood, getting to see a strong, intelligent woman, you know, holding your own with some of the, you know, the most kind of culturally intimidating men of so many decades. It's just really, it's so incredible to get to talk to you. We're really honored you're here.
- [05:06]
Connie Chung
Oh, my goodness. Thank you. Thank you. I will make a point of calling you every time I'm Feeling a little down, you know, it will be. That. That was great. Thank you.
- [05:19]
Mayim Bialik
Thank you. Well, it was very, very honest. Also, I'm a huge fan of your husband, but I didn't know that you were married to him until, like, well into the 90s. And I just was one of those people who kind of had followed his career. And it blew my mind that two people of, you know, a certain amount of, like, news and public stature could be together for so freaking long. I had no idea.
- [05:51]
Connie Chung
Well, you know what? I can't believe it either. You know, I'm saying to myself, he actually, Maury Povich has been determining the paternity of every child in America. But he has a wider vocabulary than you are the father or you are not the father. Because he was actually started out as a journalist, right? And for many, many years, he did a traditional talk show in Washington, D.C. you know, where politicians and authors and Julia, even Julia Child would come and he'd do a cooking segment with her. So he became quite a voracious reader. And over. Over the years, I would see him creating this massive library in our apartment. And so I asked him, who. What. What memoir would you recommend that I read to sort of create the same feeling, the tone and what have you? And he said, Personal History by Katherine Graham. She was the lone woman publisher of the Washington Post during a period in which there were. No, not really. There was maybe one other woman publisher, but she was at a particularly difficult time. She was the publisher during the Pentagon Papers in the Watergate scandals. So. And she had a lot of ups and downs in her life. And I found myself at the end of her book, just all the way to the end. I was rooting for her, and I thought, what do I do about. I don't want to cry in my soup. She never did in her book. She didn't. She was never. Woe is me. So that's what I decided. I would try and pattern my book after.
- [08:01]
Mayim Bialik
So the book, which also is the most awesome title ever. Cause it just says, Connie, a memoir, the book is. It definitely, you know, takes us through. I mean, a bit of your, you know, a bit of your family's history, which I think is really critically important to understand, and you really address it in a very appropriate way. You know, your parents come from really, another time, and not just because they were immigrants and you were, I believe, the only of your siblings born in America. Is that correct?
- [08:36]
Connie Chung
Correct. Yes.
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Mayim Bialik
But your parents really come from another time. I think you described it as, you know, your mother married A man who wanted nothing to do with her.
- [08:45]
Connie Chung
Yes.
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Mayim Bialik
And they had 10 children, five of whom passed, correct?
- [08:52]
Connie Chung
Yes. As babies. And three of them were boys. It was. And in China, so want girls. I mean, we really. We're totally second, third class, fourth class citizens. It was people like you, Jonathan, who were coveted because you were male.
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Mayim Bialik
If you knew a little bit more about Jonathan, I don't know if you would say that he was the coveted one.
- [09:26]
Connie Chung
Wow.
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Jonathan Cohen
Lander.
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Connie Chung
Yeah. Thanks a lot. Right. What would all the Cohens be saying now? But my mother's feet were bound. Their marriage was arranged. They had never seen each other when they were engaged at 12 and 14. They had not met until the day they got married at ages 17 and 19. And she was perpetually subjugated as a female. And so when they came to the United States and I was yet another girl. Oh, dear. So what do we do about that? Well, nothing. One day my father wrote me a letter and said, maybe someday you can tell how the Chunk family came to the United States and what exactly, you know, they. How they. How they came and. It's a harrowing story, isn't it, Mayim?
- [10:35]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, well, absolutely. And I think also the sort of context, you know, I mean, perpetually subjugated, right. That was the story for. My grandparents are immigrants to this country. And, you know, my grandmother wouldn't have even known the words perpetually or subjugated. But your duty as a wife was very, very specific. And what was interesting to me is that that's kind of one level of grief. But for your mother to lose children, and especially to lose that many children while also being expected to keep having children and then raising those children is this whole other level of grief that kind of is the, the stew, right, that, that all of you girls were raised in.
- [11:21]
Connie Chung
How perfectly you put it. You really did. I wish I had written it that like, that it was really good living, too. It was. She really lived a hard life being a dutiful Chinese wife. It was not fair. Never, never fair to her. And her life changed so dramatically when she came to the United States because she had actually grown up somewhat privileged and, you know, there were servants at home. And that's not because we were way, way high class or anything. It was just that there was a caste system in China whereby if you were middle class business people, you could have a cook and maids and nannies and all of that because of this horrific caste system. And so I always felt my mother never got her due at all. I mean, at all. And sadly, she was illiterate because women didn't go to school, really. I mean, they could up to a point, but then they really were instructed to stay home and knit and sew and play mahjong.
- [12:56]
Mayim Bialik
I happen to enjoy mah Jongg. I play international, not American.
- [12:59]
Connie Chung
You do?
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Mayim Bialik
I do.
- [13:01]
Connie Chung
Oh, my gosh. Good for you.
- [13:04]
Mayim Bialik
I have not one, but two sets. I own two mah Jongg sets. I want to get a mah Jongg table, because then you can build your wall. It helps you build the wall, and I really want one anyway.
- [13:14]
Connie Chung
Yes.
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Mayim Bialik
Not your problem. But I'm just telling you I want one.
- [13:16]
Connie Chung
No, but you know what? I found an old mahjong table at a crummy little antique store.
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Mayim Bialik
Wow.
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Connie Chung
Yeah, it's very cool. I mean, it's just square. It's like a card table.
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Mayim Bialik
No, it's a very special table, though. I'm gonna ask a question, and I don't mean it to sound harsh, but given the sort of role model that you had, you know, given the fact that you said your sisters really took a pretty traditional trajectory, and I think the way you said it was if they hadn't been busy being dutiful wives, they might have had their own careers.
- [13:55]
Connie Chung
They would have. Yes, Mayim, they would have.
- [13:58]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah. So the question that I have is, why you. What felt to you like anything else was possible when what had been shown to you was that it wasn't?
- [14:12]
Connie Chung
Very good question. I don't know. I. I do know that they. They suffocated me. Those bossy, hormonal sisters. They. They were always telling me what to do and what to say. So when they finally got married and left the nest, I. I felt liberated. Truly. I felt as if I could lost them finally, because they. They really overpowered me with their. They were ballsy. Downright ballsy. And. And I. And they. They took their balls with them. So I. So I got to grow mine. My own. My very own. And. And when I decided I wanted to go into the business, I was. I just happened to be working as an intern on Capitol Hill, So I. I saw the pulse beat of the nation right before me. And my rock stars were the senators and congress people, and. And news was so prevalent in my home, just like you. But I. I read the Washington Post and watched Uncle Walter or Walter Cronkite on the news. We would gather just the way you did. We. It was appointment television. We'd sit down and watch the news together. And so I decided that that's where I would go pursue a career Because I was a bad girl in college. I was having loads of fun.
- [15:58]
Mayim Bialik
What does Connie Chung fun look like?
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Connie Chung
Oh, at the time it was drinking. I mean, trying to drink the guys under the table. Going to a bar even in the afternoon with the guys and trying to drink them under the table with draft beer. And I would go to the student union and play pool. So I was already morphing into the man I wanted to be. I mean, I felt I had to
- [16:34]
Jonathan Cohen
be my MB Alex Breakdown is supported by Bioptimizers how's your life been lately?
- [16:39]
Mayim Bialik
Feels like it's a never ending hustle, constant juggling of responsibilities, the endless to do lists. Maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling it's not. It can feel overwhelming. And I'm not even talking about how any of that affects overall well being. Sleep, productivity, immune function. Stress has this way of slowly creeping into your life and over time it can place extra demands on key nutrients, including magnesium, which is a vital mineral that your body depends on. It's often called the vicious stress magnesium cyc. Have you heard about it? In simple terms, stress increases, your body uses more magnesium, sleeps harder to come by, your energy dips, stress feels higher and that increases your body's demand for magnesium even more. But listen up. We found a game changer. Magnesium Breakthrough. I'm holding it right here from Bioptimizers. Magnesium Breakthrough contains seven forms of magnesium formulated to support relaxation, muscle comfort, nervous system balance and healthy sleep. We take it on the regular. It's been super helpful. If stress is wearing you down, this could be worth trying. Give it a shot. It's you have nothing to lose. Bioptimizers is so confident in their products they offer a risk free 365 day money back guarantee. For an exclusive offer go to bioptimizers.com breaker use our exclusive code. That's breaker for 15% off. And if you subscribe, not only will you get amazing discounts and free gifts, you'll make sure that your monthly supply is guaranteed. Do not miss an opportunity to improve your well being in life.
- [18:00]
Jonathan Cohen
That's bioptimizers.com breaker mind biox breakdown is supported by Kachava.
- [18:07]
Mayim Bialik
We've talked a lot here on Mind biox Breakdown so far this year. About that New Year new you Dopamine Spike. Dopamine is great for getting started, helps us imagine the future and feel motivated. But it's not what keeps us consistent. Consistency comes from lowering activation energy and building habits that can just run on autopilot. That's why we use things called anchor habits, behaviors that we can attach to something we already do consistently so the existing habit becomes the trigger for the new one. For example, after meditating in the morning, which should never be skipped, I blend a Kachava shake and take it on a walk. No decision fatigue. It's just the next step Fueling your brain matters when blood sugar crashes, so does focus. So does mood. Since adding cachava, Jonathan and I have both noticed steady all day energy. Their five key vitamins and minerals support strong workouts, smoother recovery and improved cognition with way fewer afternoon brain fog moments or needs for naps. Two scoops give you vitamin C, zinc and probiotics to nourish your immune system, 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber for more stable energy, plus electrolytes, B vitamins, probiotics, greens and adaptogens to support metabolism, digestion and just overall resilience. I love the Matcha flavor blended with frozen fruit and a nut milk. Sometimes I add a little peanut butter and I feel fueled and not sluggish an hour later. If you want habits that last beyond the dopamine spike, reduce friction and fuel your brain, try Cachava Risk Free with their Love it guarantee. Stick with your wellness goals with Kachava. Go to kachava.com use the code breakdown for 15% off your first order. That's Kachava K A C-H-A V A.com
- [19:41]
Jonathan Cohen
code breakdown Mayim Bialix breakdown is supported by no C D have you ever
- [19:47]
Mayim Bialik
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- [22:35]
Connie Chung
I think I blindly walked into it not thinking. I mean, I'm 78, you're 48. So it was such, just like you were saying, it was such a different world than it is today, that it was so incredibly male dominated. I mean, I really did literally look around the room, the newsroom, for instance, and I saw all men. Maybe there was one black male. And then I looked. The competing reporters were all men. And then the people I was covering in Washington were men. At the White House, at the Pentagon, at the State Department, on Capitol Hill. My gosh, it was filled with men. So since I'm the one who's looking out at the men, I'm on a wall looking out at them, I think to myself, why can't I just be one of them? I mean, I don't See me, I don't know that I'm a Chinese woman. And so I decided I'll take on their Persona. I'll be bold, I'll be scrappy. I will walk into a room and own it the way they do. I will command respect the way they do when they walk into a room simply because they are men. So I will take on all of the pages from their playbook and become one of them. Because so convinced myself that when I walk past a mirror, I'd go, just a Chinese woman there. So it was kind of, yeah, call me crazy, but I would. I didn't think that I could not do it. And I had this photo and the moxie that I don't have today, I just mustered it because I knew I had to.
- [24:44]
Jonathan Cohen
I'm fascinated about how you built this realization because in the movie version of you, Sandra oh would have looked around, she would have seen all these men, she would have looked in the mirror and then she would have had to say, okay, you should have gone home and say, in order to compete, I need to do this. And the sort of plan would have formulated. Was it an all at once realization? Was it? Because it sounds like you built this really very complex and detailed internal plan about how the Persona you needed to build. But describe to us how that sort of formed because it's, it's fascinating and very powerful.
- [25:21]
Connie Chung
Well, no, it was just born out of necessity. In other words, I didn't have a plan. I didn't say to myself, I am now going to take on all the characteristics of a man. No, I looked around and said, what the heck do I do? They're treating me like I'm a little lotus blossom. And I'm not a lotus blossom, and I'm not going to be treated like a lotus blossom. So it was almost as if I had gone to the Millicent Busybody school of journalism and learned how to have a potty mouth. I had the worst potty mouth. And they would be shocked at the words that I would drop. They'd be taken so aback by the fact that I did not hesitate and I don't recommend it. It's not that I'm saying this is what young women should do. It was honestly, I was just trying to survive. So I got this attitude that I was going to tell a better dirty joke than they did. I mean, not literally, but if they were going to throw something sexist or racist at me, I would do it to them. Because before they did it to me. And at that time, my brain Was not as mushy as it is now. In my 70s, I was able to do a comeback. Like, I can't believe I came back with all these lines. And because I'm so old, I can remember the lines. You know, I can't remember what I had for breakfast, but I, I can remember those crazy lines that I would throw out at various people. So I, I put them, many of them, in the book.
- [27:13]
Mayim Bialik
So one of the things you talk about, and this sort of relates to what I'm going to ask next, you know, you talk about, you know, a particularly astounding and egregious and, and horrendous thing that happened to you at the hands of the doctor, who actually was the doctor when you were born.
- [27:33]
Connie Chung
Yes. He delivered me.
- [27:34]
Mayim Bialik
Yes. And when you were in college and this is a, a secret that you kept for decades and decades, and you revealed that you had been assaulted by this doctor. And you talk about it in the book and you chose to write an op ed about it during the Kavanaugh hearings, which was incredibly brave and really inspirational. But what I think is interesting is knowing that that was the climate that you lived in, that when you went to the doctor, something like that might happen and you have no one to tell and you're not even sure if you'll be believed. That is so fascinating to me that, that also produced Connie Chung, who, you know, went into newsrooms knowing that being female could be dangerous. And your attractiveness is part of the story because you, you were, you got a lot of attention. You had to know sort of where. Here's the question. Where did you start to understand your sexual power lay? Meaning when could it be protective for you? When did it intimidate you or others? How did you learn to manage that?
- [28:47]
Connie Chung
Well, it was like machine gun fire. So I found myself, you know, it's this look that, that all women recognize when a man looks at you. And they're, they're not going to ask you, you know, what book are you reading? They're, they're just. I, I call it, and forgive me, but I call it. I could see the sperm swimming in their eyes. And it's like, it's like it's going like a million miles an hour, you know, And I, as soon as I see that look, I would say to myself, oh, okay, I gotta, I gotta do something. I gotta say something quickly. And I don't think it had everything to do with the way I appeared. I think it happens to everyone and it doesn't matter who we are, what we look like or whatever. If we are walking around in a skirt or even not a skirt, it's. We know that look and we have to find a way to deal with it. I found that just being the only woman among a sea of men, it was pretty obvious that I was an aardvark. And so I had to just kind of deal with it. And it wasn't any big. To me, it wasn't any big deal. I was just trying to get my job done and I just wanted to be as good as they were.
- [30:43]
Mayim Bialik
What did you perceive as sort of the status of women versus men, Right. When the bar is, I want to be as good as they are. And the fact is men aren't necessarily better. They just have had more opportunity, right, to be in that arena. So what did that mean to you?
- [31:03]
Connie Chung
Well, in writing this book, I finally understood that, or I came to the conclusion that we were given such a tiny sliver of the big pie, that the men owned the entire pie. But when women were hired in the television news business, certainly we were given a skinny little hair, thin sliver, and that would cause us to have to share it, which was not healthy either, because when we, you know, the natural inclination when you have to share is a lack of cooperation on the part of some people. So I found that I wanted to find some higher up female or a female people who I could commiserate with, but there weren't any. And the only one in the Washington bureau at CBS actually was Leslie Saul. And she has remained friends. We are still friends to this day, even though we're both old farts and we have lunch at least once a year were it not for Leslie, but she was. It's not as if we had time to commiserate. I just knew what she was doing and what she was battling, and I knew what I was doing and battling. And it just wasn't a case of being able to sneak off and tell each other our horrendous stories. And also, by the way, I was determined just from the beginning that there is no crying in baseball. There is no crying in news. You do not run to the ladies room and cry. Oh, oh, Mayim, I wanted to say, you know, you were talking about these different waves of feminism. Back when I was starting, I couldn't even go there. In other words, it would be a criminal if I even went, you know, uttered the word. I mean, if I suggested that Gloria Steinem or Betty Friedan or any of them were people that I admired, I couldn't go there. And Leslie didn't feel she could go there either. We could not be tagged with being a feminist. And so anything we did, we just did subtly. But, I mean, I think even today, it's very hard for women to burn their bra. They just end up on the wrong side of the tracks, which is ridiculous.
- [34:20]
Mayim Bialik
Can you talk about some of the names that women were called? You know, my mom was called a bitch before it was a popular term and something that, you know, women were reclaiming. And what it meant was a woman who spoke her mind, didn't take nonsense from people, and didn't appreciate being felt up on the subway that was called a bitch. Can you talk about some of the sort of euphemisms that you heard for the kind of woman you were or the kind of women that worked in news at that time?
- [34:52]
Connie Chung
For me, it was always a sexual innuendo because I actually tried to avoid being a bitch. I didn't want to be called the B word. I didn't want to be considered someone who was uncooperative. I really was a double dose of dutifulness, being a woman and being Chinese. And so I tried not to be that dutiful. But honestly, in the end, I realized after I compiled everything in my book that I was much too dutiful. I regret greatly not standing up for myself. But what would happen is that the usually male. I mean, always male, superior person would grind me and grind me and grind me until I would, okay, you know, I'll do the right thing. This is for the team. Take one for the team. And I think there were times maybe. I'm trying to think. I think Leslie fought that a little better than I did because she. She had a little more experience than I did. She had already been around the track a couple times, but, you know, one time we had lunch, and she said. I said, you did it the right way, Leslie. You know, you're still working today on 60 Minutes. And she said, no. She said, I. She said, I. You took risks. And every time I threatened to leave, I wouldn't leave. I would stay. And she said, but you threatened to leave and you'd leave. So it was so interesting that we, you know, we're contemporaries, and we sort of took our paths. Were different paths.
- [37:09]
Jonathan Cohen
Mind Bialik's breakdown is supported by Superpower.
- [37:13]
Mayim Bialik
I think we can all relate to the feeling of leaving a doctor's office feeling like we didn't really get anything useful out of that experience. Maybe they just said, you're fine, or told you to drink more water. But there's no like real data or game plan. This has happened to me a lot, especially when I started my perimenopause journey. That's why we're so fascinated by what Superpower is doing. They send a licensed professional to your home, or you can visit a nearby lab. It's one simple blood draw with over 100 biomarkers, way more than what you usually get, and it unlocks a real understanding of your body. Their app includes detailed information on your heart, liver, thyroid, your hormones, your metabolism, vitamin and mineral levels, and even environmental toxins. From disease prevention to treating that annoying brain fog or simply optimizing your gym game, Superpower is the most comprehensive and advanced system out there. I had been so tired of constantly guessing or reading random articles online about what I should do next for health, but Superpower's actionable health plan based on personal results has been a game changer for us. Plus, they have an on demand clinician team to answer questions. Supplement or prescription suggestions can be directly bought through Superpower so you don't have to go anywhere else. They also offer nutritional guidance, tips for lifestyle, behavioral adjustment, and you even get your true biological age that you can track over time. Guess what? I'm 3,000 years old. Superpower used to cost $499, but right now it's just $199 for the full experience, which is much more affordable than anything else out there. Make this the year you stop guessing about your health with Superpower. Not only did Superpower reduce their price to just $199, but for a limited time our listeners get an additional $20 off with the code BREAK. Head to superpower.com use code BREAK at checkout for 20 bucks off your membership. After you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Make sure to mention this podcast to Support the show.
- [39:00]
Jonathan Cohen
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- [39:03]
Mayim Bialik
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- [40:37]
Jonathan Cohen
Use our links in the episode description for the best deals possible and get started with Odoo today.
- [40:45]
Mayim Bialik
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- [40:52]
Connie Chung
Like wrangling your toddler into their car seat.
- [40:56]
Mayim Bialik
That was fun.
- [40:57]
Connie Chung
Coaching your 6th grader soccer team Go Girls.
- [41:02]
Mayim Bialik
And carrying all the groceries in one trip.
- [41:06]
Connie Chung
Try Quaker Protein Instant Oatmeal, Granola and bars.
- [41:10]
Mayim Bialik
Great taste and a good source of protein.
- [41:12]
Connie Chung
Quaker bring out the good.
- [41:15]
Mayim Bialik
Can you talk a little bit about sort of what, what your first break was and then what some of the things were that would come up that would kind of mean that you had to take it for take one for the team.
- [41:33]
Connie Chung
The big break was when I was working at a local station in Washington, D.C. and a tony French restaurant in D.C. was cited for unsanitary conditions. And it was unthinkable. So I barged into the restaurant, demanded to see the owner and with cameras rolling, you know, a la Mike Wallace in 60 Minutes and said why did you get this unsanitary rating? And there was a the Washington bureau chief of CBS News, a man named Bill Small, favored that restaurant. It was called Le Provencal. And he was there having lunch. He saw me in action and he gave me his card and he said, call me. So you got to time this. Well, let's see, he finishes lunch, then he goes back to the office. How much time should I give him? I gave him 20 minutes. And he said, I called him in 20 minutes and he hired me. So that was my big break. And I think Bill was very. He was invested in the women. He. He decided to engage in a preemptive strike because the drumbeat of higher women and higher minorities was really getting louder and louder. So he hired four women. Leslie Stahl, me, Michelle Clark, an African American or black woman, as we say now, and Sylvia Chase. And the four of us were hired at cbs, but Leslie and I were the only two in the Washington bureau. And that was the first wave of women hired. And another wave didn't occur. That was in the 1970s. 71. Another wave didn't occur until the 1980s. Good gosh. A decade later, finally, more women were hired. And now it's better, but still hasn't reached a level of parody.
- [43:57]
Mayim Bialik
Can you talk about some of what your life was like during the Watergate scandal?
- [44:06]
Connie Chung
I was sent out on these things called stakeouts, which means you try to catch a Watergate figure as he's going to work or as he's coming home. But during. And then in between, I'd cover like the Senate Watergate hearings or the House Judiciary Committee hearings into the impeachment of Richard Nixon. Oh, can I show you a picture? This is the hardback. And can you see this picture?
- [44:36]
Mayim Bialik
Yes. I love this picture.
- [44:38]
Connie Chung
Isn't it hysterical? I'm among a sea of men, a lot of sideburns, and I look bushed because I don't know why, but the Capitol Hill photographer Dev o' Neill took this picture and I remembered keeping it because it was pretty iconic. I call it the sea of Men because I found myself surrounded by all these men. And a friend of mine put it on, I guess, Instagram, Facebook or something, and she called it mood. And mood, in today's parlance means I've been there. That is so me. So anyway, and during Watergate, I would have to, like, with a Watergate figure, post myself outside the person's home at 5:30 in the morning and try and ask them about the latest story that was appearing in the Washington Post, written by Woodward and Bernstein. So it was a. Did you? Did you? Did you? Did you? Did you, did you? And then they would jump into the car and speed away and not say anything. But that was television. Stupid. No, Very, very ridiculous. Just to get a shot of either H.R. haldeman or John Dean or John Ehrlichman, the sort of tight circle around Richard Nixon.
- [46:27]
Mayim Bialik
So Richard Nixon is a great place for us to kind of move into my next kind of set of questions about neutrality and what news anchors are supposed to do, what they provide, what their service is. You know, I was raised in a union family. My grandparents were sweatshop workers. My grandfather's favorite thing to talk about in his very heavy Polish accent was that Richard Nixon was a crook. You know, like, that was the sort of, like, story for a lot of us who were raised that, that he was this, I mean, a very exceptional president in terms of what the Watergate scandal revealed. But this is sort of my question, and, you know, I'm asking it in light of what we sort of see happens now in the news. Your job as a reporter, right, is to report the news. But I'm curious, was there a notion of I'm in the middle of a scandal that's going to shape, you know, this presidency, this era? Like, what he did is wrong. He's a crook. You know, you had to maintain neutrality. How were you sort of raised as a journalist? Because it's so different now. And I'm wondering what it was like then, what it meant to you and how you kind of got there. And were there ever times when you did have opinions? But there wasn't a place for that as a reporter,
- [47:53]
Connie Chung
since I was early on trained by the best of the best. It was the CBS News Washington bureau was considered the Tiffany staff. Not only was CBS the Tiffany network, but that collection of reporters and correspondents were considered the creme de la creme. So I was. My training wheels were on the entire five years that I covered Capitol Hill in the White House with these men who ended up being very, as you noted, wonderful to me. Actually, some of them were incredibly competitive. But nonetheless, it created a climate in which I understood it was just the job to compete and to kill your colleagues and to kill the. You know, especially at cbs, they used to say the stains on the rug and NBC are coffee, but the saints on the rug of the industrial carpet at CBS is blood. So when we covered Watergate, we could tell that it was the story of the decade because the presidency was at stake. We could not. We could not get anything wrong. So that bureau chief who had hired me, Little Small, he instituted stringent rules. We had to have two firsthand sources of information before we reported something so called anonymously. If I had had a Deep Throat the way Woodard and Bernstein did, I would have had to have had another source besides Deep Throat to tell me something before I'd be allowed to Report it. So those days were, we knew the rules. We would not precipitously put something on the air. We would not, we were never allowed to express our opinion. In fact, that's one of the problems I had writing this book because when I started writing it and I submitted what is commonly called the shitty first draft, the editor looked at it and said, you're just giving me the facts. I said, no, but that's what I do. And she said, no, no, this is your memoir. You have to tell everyone how you feel. How I feel, I can't do that. I never have. And so it was very hard for me to jump over that hurdle and try and eke out feelings. Felt like a louncinger.
- [51:00]
Mayim Bialik
Feelings. Can you explain a little bit? Why not, why not have feelings?
- [51:09]
Connie Chung
Well, as a journalist, you just can't. I mean, and right now the paradigm has changed and the pendulum swung way off the deep end with, with people I don't care for or don't care to read or to listen to. But there are plenty of still fantastic journalists, people who I happen to know them and I know that they are giving it to me straight, but there's so many who don't and we just have to ferret through it all to figure out what the truth is. But I had never found it difficult to parse out the truth because maybe mime is because I'm wishy washy and I couldn't, you know, I'd rather not go there. It was very easy for me to get one side of the story, the other side of the story, present it to the viewer and let them decide who is telling the truth. I think television doesn't lie.
- [52:20]
Jonathan Cohen
It's a fascinating exercise in self control. How did you not think, oh, wait a second, this feels more right. Did you never have a hunch and you were like, oh, wait a second, that actually isn't the case. Like it's such an exercise, it's almost an enlightened exercise not to have an opinion about something.
- [52:43]
Connie Chung
I, I agree with you that it, it seems impossible to suppress your opinion. And what is true is that we are but human beings and we are products of our upbringing. And no matter how much we say to ourselves, we are being objective, we're human beings, so we probably do have an opinion. But I think the old fashioned journalists would almost bend over backwards to try and be fair. So what happened when I was covering George McGovern? I would say that the majority of the reporters were part of the eastern liberal establishment press which was alive and well, then. But they. They gave him such a hard time. They really bent over backwards to pick him apart because they felt perhaps guilt for being actually in favor of the guy and probably intending to vote for him, but they just had to do their job the way they were taught to do the job. And it was so, I think, admirable. But lots of times journalists will go too far and pick on somebody who they really shouldn't be, you know, picking all the lint off this one person. It could easily have not been fair, but the govern had his own issues, so. And, you know, during election years, every. Every news organization tends to go overboard in one direction or another, but nothing like it is today. This is insane.
- [54:51]
Mayim Bialik
It's insane. Connie?
- [54:53]
Connie Chung
Yeah.
- [54:54]
Jonathan Cohen
Let's talk about today, because when I think about.
- [54:59]
Connie Chung
Jonathan. I'm sorry, I didn't look at you. Are you from Canada?
- [55:02]
Jonathan Cohen
I am, yes.
- [55:03]
Mayim Bialik
Oh, I.
- [55:04]
Connie Chung
How did I know? I don't know. I don't know.
- [55:08]
Jonathan Cohen
How did you know?
- [55:09]
Mayim Bialik
I'm undercover here.
- [55:10]
Connie Chung
You sound Canadian.
- [55:11]
Mayim Bialik
You sound Canadian. You do.
- [55:14]
Connie Chung
Oh, you do. It's the about. It's the about. Yeah.
- [55:19]
Mayim Bialik
I love it.
- [55:20]
Jonathan Cohen
I think I'm much more undercover than I am, clearly. You should see how Canadian I sound when I go back to Toronto, though. It's much. It's much increased.
- [55:31]
Connie Chung
That happens. Yes.
- [55:33]
Jonathan Cohen
But what I was going to say is when I think about news organizations, when I think about news anchors in the 70s, in the 80s, even in the 90s, there's a level of professionalism that speaks to what you talked about. I'm going to present as much both sides of the story. Now, maybe I'm naive and that was never the case, but it seems like it was the case back then. And at a certain point, especially, you know, to get us where we are now. Profit motives, echo chambers. It seems like the only incentive an organization has right now is maintain their viewers at all costs, Cut through an increasingly crowded landscape to get attention, and there are no morals or scruples. They'll perpetuate any narrative that will get them the viewer, and they're. The result is that no one trusts anyone. How did we get here? And are you. And are you sickened by what, you know, this, this institution of. Of news has divulged into?
- [56:41]
Connie Chung
Yeah, I. It. It depresses me terribly. And I. But I think it was encroaching on us as early as the 80s, and I kind of track that trend in my book. The. The evolution of. Or the demolition of the news media. It. Honestly, I think it might go Back all the way to Vietnam when the general public wasn't trusting the government and there was this creeping negativity spreading whereby people didn't trust the government because the government wasn't telling them the truth. And then gradually, one of the biggest seminal moments in media history in television news was that corporations bought over abc, NBC and cbs. And right now you're seeing CBS in a terrible struggle, being bought by a Hollywood mogul and competition coming from the Seagram's heir, Edgar Bronfman. And it's just, it's the bottom line mentality. The so what happened with the three networks is that once they got the bottom line mentality, the most important thing was to make money. So in order to bring more people into the tent to get higher ratings, they actually got people like me to cover things that I didn't want to cover, like Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan and their battle or O.J. simpson. And all of this was, would not have been covered had it occurred in the 70s because it wasn't news. Right? That's right. That's exactly right. It was not news. It was frivolity. It was something that maybe it was on a feature page, possibly, or the sports page, maybe even the Olympics would be on the sports page, but it was not on the evening news. Walter Cronkite, I mean, all I could think of when I was covering Tonya Harding in Portland and she was skating around, skating around at the Clackamas Mall skating rink and I was dangling my microphone down is Tanya, Tanya. I was thinking, would Walter be standing here going, tanya, Tanya, come talk to me. No, no, no.
- [59:42]
Mayim Bialik
So was it because you were a woman also that you were given what might be seen as not dignified pieces at that time? Because that was not a. You're always dignified. But I'm saying that's story was not. That was not a news story. And the question is, is exactly right. Would a man be asked to do this?
- [60:05]
Connie Chung
For me, it was more at the climate at cbs. CBS said my co anchor Dan Rather would, would never go. None of the 60 Minutes men want to touch this story. But CBS had bought the Olympics and it was CBS prime time was in trouble. And they were using it the way NBC did every single Olympic year. And that is to boost their ratings. And people would watch it night after night after night. And it did boost the ratings. So I had to do it for the team. No, you have to do this because no one else will touch it. 60 Minutes men won't touch it. Their mother won't touch it. You have to do it for us. And faced with that responsibility, even though I was co anchoring the CBS CB News and knowing I didn't want to do it and I didn't think it was dignified, I don't know, I should have said put my foot down and said, not happening. I'm not doing it. I'm not. Hell no, I won't go. But I couldn't. I wimped out.
- [61:24]
Jonathan Cohen
You talk about a perfect storm. Really, Connie. And you, you connect it to Vietnam and then the corporatization of news where all the networks are being bought by conglomerates that have a responsibility to their shareholders to drive shareholder values.
- [61:42]
Connie Chung
You said that so much better than I did.
- [61:45]
Jonathan Cohen
I practiced.
- [61:48]
Connie Chung
You really did. Go ahead.
- [61:52]
Jonathan Cohen
My question, I think, goes to the need to have impartial news as a core part of a healthy democracy. In. In the absence of that, if the American public as. As you said, starting in Vietnam, stopped believing what they were being told, and it's been a slow decline ever since, and the incentive structure of news organizations is literally to drive eyeballs at any cost, is democracy at risk because of that recipe?
- [62:26]
Connie Chung
I still believe that the fourth estate can live and thrive because it's a part of who we are. If you go back, way back, there was a time when the news business was literally biased because the news was being disseminated by partisan. I think you have to go back to when the printing press was invented and news was disseminated by partisan politicians and partisan groups. But I think I want to believe that we can harness it back to where it should be. And one of the things my husband Maury is, you know, aside from naming babies or identifying babies, he. He has started a small newspaper in Montana, and he did that as an homage to his father, who is a newspaper man at the Washington Post. And it has. It is so appreciated by the community. It's called the Flathead Beacon. And other states judge it for awards, and it gets investigative awards and it gets best online reporting and general coverage and all these wonderful awards. And the community really appreciates straight news. I believe that if we really can, we can do it one city at a time. We can do it at one station at a time, one podcast at a time to make sure that whatever we are uttering. Is accurate and fair. Maybe we can bring swing that errant pendulum back. I have to believe that because I was so lucky to be working at a time when news was honest and appreciated. Now we stand as low as Capitol Hill does. And the Supreme Court and, you know, the media is in a toilet and we have not been able to climb out for some time. It's really depressing.
- [65:15]
Mayim Bialik
It is depressing. I was, I mean, not to get super political, but I happened to be watching the Democratic National Convention last night, and, you know, I was really just kind of wanting to hear the speakers. I didn't really want to hear the commentary. And I was kind of like flipping around on the channels and I'm watching. I have an 18 year old who said to me last night, even though we live in California and it won't matter, I really want to say that I voted this year in this election, you know, and so I wanted to watch, to hear speakers. I wanted him to hear perspectives from the Democratic National Convention. And, and I'm hearing kind of all this commentary and they keep cutting away from the speakers so that I can hear what they think about the speakers. And that was annoying. And it, it occurred to me that I kind of felt like I was watching. And I won't say which network, but it felt like I was watching kind of an extended social media Instagram feed where it was like, rah, rah, rah. And even the convention itself, it kind of felt like everyone has been given signs so that they can all raise them in the air so that we can like get that image. And they're all doing the same chants. And, you know, my parents were anti war activists and, you know, civil rights activists. So, like, I know what happened in 1968, and I'm very interested in everything that's happening at this convention. But I actually want to just see what's happening and not the image of what they want me to see is happening.
- [66:39]
Connie Chung
Yes.
- [66:40]
Mayim Bialik
Does that feel like an accurate sort of assessment?
- [66:43]
Connie Chung
You're spot on. I mean, completely spot on. The rah rah on both sides is. It actually makes me sick. I can't. I so want it to be. You know, I feel like I'm an old fart and I want to say, that's not the way we did it. And I would love to bring Uncle Walter back and he would do it just plain straight. And also, I don't know, I find I talk myself blue in the face. I throw shoes at the tv, I'm yelling when I hear. When I see an interview being done, I am always saying, ask this, ask that. You didn't follow up.
- [67:48]
Mayim Bialik
I'm going to ask you to go kind of one step deeper in that there are things that are happening in our culture and there are things that are happening with the way we view the Supreme Court, there are things that are happening that people are kind of referencing as, like, he's a threat to democracy. Right. Do I have the right, you know, to make decisions about my own body without caring what you think about it? Right. These kind of issues of abortion, women's rights, you know, the, the rights of, of union workers to strike, you know, the notion that we cannot live in this. I do not want to live in a society where workers are threatened, you know, to be fired if they strike. Are there places where you as a human being can see that being a journalist is extra special hard right now when we're dealing with these kinds of broad brush paintings of the issues. And the fact is, like, I, I will lay my body down, you know, for women's right to an abortion. Like, this just feels like, like, at what point do you, as a, a journalist get to say, I don't know how to be impartial? Right? Like, is there still a way to do that? Like, I used to talk to people on, quote, the other side, and then I realized, oh, they don't believe in my fundamental right. You know, as a liberal, as a Jewish woman, you know, at what point do you kind of understand that framework
- [69:25]
Connie Chung
I feel for our journalists today? I mean, people have asked me, would you like to be back reporting? No, thank you. It's fraught with danger. It is very, very hard because if you as a journalist are aiming for the truth, it's very hard to ferret it out because there's so much vitriol and so much partisanship that I would find it very hard to, to navigate this, this journalistic world today. I'm, I, I can't work in that kind of world. And I, and I, I can barely watch it. I can barely read it. It's, it's, it's, it's truly fraught with danger.
- [70:29]
Mayim Bialik
And if you were a journalist now, what, what would your tactic be? Would you say, there are certain questions and areas I don't want to tackle? Would you believe that you could even be kind of, you know, respected in a space to even talk, to, quote the other side, whatever that looks like?
- [70:47]
Connie Chung
I, I believe that, you know, because I, because I believe in what I used to do. I think I could, I think I could navigate it, but that's just because I foolishly believe I knew what I was doing. But, you know, it's. I don't know. I think it's, it's very hard because I, I have friends who are still in the news Business. And, and I don't envy them. They plow through it. They get through the garbage, but it's hard not to get some on your shoes. It really is.
- [71:40]
Jonathan Cohen
Almost everyone in today's news business is an opinion columnist. As they present news, they present facts. They may acknowledge the other side and contrary facts, but primarily they are opinion people. If you had to do that, you know, if we're just imagining Connie reinvented in 2024, you know, she's out at one of the news stations. Where would you. Where would your home be? And could you imagine that? I know you talked about how hard it was just to even add your opinion in your memoir, but if we were just playing imagination, I'm not going to go there.
- [72:23]
Connie Chung
Jonathan. That's fair.
- [72:25]
Jonathan Cohen
That's fair.
- [72:30]
Connie Chung
Maybe, Jonathan, if you sit down with me, I have a scotch on the rocks, I might spill the beans.
- [72:38]
Jonathan Cohen
That's fair.
- [72:39]
Mayim Bialik
What do you see as the challenges for women journalists now? No matter kind of what side of, you know, any aisle you're on, what are the challenges now and how are they different than they were, you know, when you started?
- [72:52]
Connie Chung
Well, we, we still haven't reached a level of parody in all, not only journalism, but in corporate America, in sports, in all field of. Of endeavor, we just aren't there yet. I mean, I look at Caitlin Clark, who matched Pete Maravich's record for, I think, the most baskets in NCAA career, and then she bashed Steph Curry for three pointers. She surpassed that, I believe. But then when she joined the wnba, she, she makes a morsel amount of money compared to. And I can't pronounce this. Wembayama, I think, who is the first draft. She was the first draft for women for the wnba. He was the first draft for the men for the NBA. It's just astounding. I mean, I look at that and say, how could this be so? I mean, at CBS News, a woman just stepped down as the anchor. Although the, the evening news is not what it used to be anyway. Nobody will be Walter Cronkite again. Anyway, she just stepped down and they replaced her with a black male and a white male. So sort of like, what's wrong with this picture? We. It's not. We're taking a lot of steps backward, but at the same time, we cannot stop trying to make inroads. It would be foolish to. So I'm just hoping that today's women will fight the good fight, carry on, reach down and help another woman trying to step up the ladder along the
- [74:55]
Mayim Bialik
lines of Sort of women needing to continue to fight the good fight. One of our worst enemies as women is our own guilt and, and our own judgment. And you, you have a quote in your book. I, I belong. I believed earning a living was inexorably tied to my self worth. I paid my own bills, supported my parents all their lives. And then after marrying Maury, I always split the family finances with him. 50, 50 without a salaried job. And this was after you left cbs, I believe. I felt as if I were not carrying my weight in my household. I deemed myself unproductive without a paycheck to show for my time. And you say that he never made you feel that way. It was I who took it upon myself to feel the guilt. Guilt being my favorite emotion. And you had all, you know, you had all sort of ways that you made light of it. This is so relatable. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about, you know, was it that you came from such a strong work ethic and that you started working so young and you had to sort of compete in the male world. What was it driving this notion that your worth in particular as a woman was tied to you working and earning and being quote, productive?
- [76:07]
Connie Chung
It was probably being Chinese and being dutiful and, and these strong feelings of filial piety that I had to fulfill all of my parents wishes. But add to that, when my father had a minor heart attack and retired, I became the breadwinner in my family. I was only 25, mid 20s, and my sisters had all gone off and gotten married and I was supporting my parents, basically the soul support. My sisters didn't have enough money to contribute and then some of them didn't want to either. In other words, they were building their families and they didn't have the means and they thought, well, Connie's got her career. So as the breadwinner of the family, I understood that also brought together this necessity to be a man, a guy, because that's the traditional role of a man. So here, Jonathan, this weaves into your movie again. Barbara Walters was also. I related to her a lot because her father's nightclubs tanked and she became the breadwinner of her family too. So we both had to have our jobs because we needed the paycheck. And if we didn't have the money flowing in, we couldn't support our parents. She couldn't support her sister and I couldn't support myself. And so I took on this feeling of, of being the son that my parents never had. And this was a mission, actually, that my father had written to me in a letter. He said, maybe you can carry on the Chung name and tell how this family came to the United States and carry it further forth the way Sun Tzu, basically. I mean, and I got that into my head then. So here I was morphing into this guy, not only to earn my money, but that perpetuated even when I was married to Maury, because I couldn't. I always, as you read, tied my self worth to a patient. Then, if I may, the final thing that comes around to give me a nice, wonderful denouement, an ending to this book, is the fact that a young Chinese woman who is a journalist, her parents came from China, she was only three years old, and they said, we need to give you an American name. And she said, they said, who would you like to be? She's three years old. She knows what she sees on television. She says, connie or Elmo. So fortunately, her parents chose Elmo. Well, then this young woman who became a journalist for Refinery29, her name is Connie Wong, she starts coming across more Connies, and they're all Asian. And she says, this is weird. I think I've hit upon a phenomenon. And lo and behold, she found a lot of Connies. They were born in the 70s, 80s and 90s when I was doing television news. And their names are Connie. So these parents decided that I had created this. Well, then I broke the bamboo ceiling. And I being guilt is my favorite emotion and humility is my favorite emotion. And I could never declare success if I didn't have a paycheck. And so when, when they did this, I thought, oh my gosh, maybe I did. Maybe I did what? I can't say I did.
- [80:50]
Mayim Bialik
Well, I will happily say it for you and embarrass you once again. Yeah, I mean, the notion that, I mean, we had Jalen Rose on a very famous basketball player and a generation of boys were named Jaylen for him, but a generation of women were impacted. And what I thought was so, so especially powerful is, you know, you, you broke the bamboo ceiling. But it wasn't, it was not just for Asian women. You know, you represented an understanding of the seriousness of a woman and the fact that you had to do it as the son your parents never had, you know, the, the man who was a woman in the newsroom. Right. That, that fact, I mean, we, we do, we stand on your shoulders. And I think it's so important for women, you know, of my age and younger women to understand you did all of this so that we can be outraged when men make a comment about our legs. And it's not appropriate. So we, we really do. Even those of us who are not named Connie, we stand on your shoulders. Thank you so much for writing this beautiful memoir. Thank you for being the mother to your children, the wife to your husband, and really like a voice of reason and neutrality that we simply don't have any more, especially from women. It's really so spectacular to get to talk to you.
- [82:12]
Connie Chung
I am, I can't tell you, I'm. I'm calling you tomorrow, you know, just to get a little bit of boost.
- [82:22]
Mayim Bialik
Well, I literally, you can tell your husband that I watched Current Affair. I was the only 11 year old who watched Current Affair. I saw him as a very serious newsman before anyone started talking. So I'm really a fan of both of you. And when I found out that the Current Affair guy was married to Connie Chung, I lost my mind. So it's really such a pleasure to talk to you. The book is Connie A Memoir. I highly recommend it for anyone who wants to know what it used to be like and also what it's like now. So thank you so much.
- [82:53]
Connie Chung
No, thank you. Mayim. Jonathan, I'm so happy you came along for the ride and you put, you, you, you know, you, you summarized a lot of my thoughts, so maybe I ought to call you, too.
- [83:10]
Jonathan Cohen
We're available for pep talks anytime you need.
- [83:13]
Connie Chung
Oh, good, good. This is good. This is very good for me. I appreciate it.
- [83:18]
Mayim Bialik
We wish you only good things with the book and, and all things and really such an honor to talk to you. Thank you.
- [83:24]
Jonathan Cohen
Really a pleasure.
- [83:25]
Connie Chung
Thank you. Nice to meet both of you. I mean, you know, I knew all about Mayim, but I knew nothing about Huge Jonathan. And frankly, I don't care.
- [83:38]
Mayim Bialik
That's how I feel.
- [83:39]
Jonathan Cohen
Nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
- [83:40]
Mayim Bialik
That's right, Jonathan. There was something I wanted to ask her about that I didn't get to. There were so many things I didn't get to get to. She and Maury Povich dated for seven years without living together or being married. And then when they finally got married, they were living in two different cities. When they moved in together, I mean, like, they were. It was a very unconventional thing. And they've been together a million years.
- [84:07]
Jonathan Cohen
That could be the secret to a long term relationship. Just live in separate cities. They were also doing it at a time where there was like no FaceTime, no Zoom. You had to pay for a long distance call. Like they were racking up long distance charges.
- [84:21]
Mayim Bialik
I mean, we'll have to have her back for a whole episode on Connie Chung's guide, too. A successful relationship.
- [84:28]
Jonathan Cohen
When I choose my American name, when I fully acclimatize to this country, I might pick Connie.
- [84:34]
Mayim Bialik
Connie Cohen. It's got a real. I'm sure there's a Connie Cohen somewhere.
- [84:39]
Jonathan Cohen
That's a really good. Has a ring to it. I like alliteration.
- [84:43]
Mayim Bialik
And her, her full name is Constance, but she said no one ever called her Constance. She was always Connie.
- [84:48]
Jonathan Cohen
I think she was underplaying the risk to democracy that shocking the nature of our current news is currently having.
- [84:59]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah, but she didn't want to go there with you. You're. She's not on the Maury Povich Show.
- [85:04]
Jonathan Cohen
I need Maury to get on and say, is democracy gonna end? And is mime the mother?
- [85:11]
Mayim Bialik
No, I think that she. I mean, I think she was raised in a time when there literally was a sense of reporting neutrality. And what I got was that of course she had opinions, of course she had feelings, but that's not what neutrality looks like. And in many ways, that was the challenge to being a female reporter. That's what they were afraid of. That you'd be too emotional, that you'd be too, you know, partisan, that you couldn't control your feelings. And she really mastered that art, for lack of a better word.
- [85:40]
Jonathan Cohen
I mean, it's, it's almost laughable that that is something that people aspire to because of how foreign it is right now.
- [85:48]
Mayim Bialik
Yeah. Like the, the, the notion when. What she was saying about McGovern. And, you know, for those of you watching at home, McGovern was a, you know, a left wing person. Right. So what she was saying was that a lot of the reporters who were technically, quote, on his side and former govern were, were actually going out of their way to be critical so that no one would think that they were biased because they were liberal and he was liberal, or they were Democrats and he was Democrats. And that's how egregious it was for news to be seen as in any way, you know, partisan.
- [86:22]
Jonathan Cohen
Can you imagine that right now, where someone in the media would be like, I'm scared that someone's going to call me partisan. Like that was the biggest fear, that your reputation could be damaged by being considered partisan.
- [86:37]
Mayim Bialik
I know how every reporter feels based on the network that they're on pretty much. And, you know, there's some variability based
- [86:45]
Jonathan Cohen
on the first thing that comes out of their mouth. It's this Party is horrible. That party is horrible. The tagline tells you everything.
- [86:52]
Mayim Bialik
Here's what I was raised as a kid. Every politician's lying. Every politician is lying on both sides in the middle, they're all lying because it is their job to convince you of something so that they can win the equivalent of ratings, which is your votes. So here's my thing. I know both sides are lying. I just do. But what I know is that there's gonna be things that I feel are consistent with my ethics, my, you know, my, my concept of how I want the country to be. That's what is gonna drive me to a particular candidate, not necessarily a particular side, cuz there's more than two sides now. But the notion that when I watch the news, I often hear reporters telling the lies that the candidate is telling, even if it's the candidate I'm voting for. And I like, like I'm not three years old. It's not like you need to, you know, make it so simple. For me, it's complicated. And jobs are complicated and the economy is complicated. International policy, it's all very complicated. I'm a big girl. I can handle it. Do not feed me a lie that I know is a lie. Even if it's the side that I agree with, it actually makes me not trust you.
- [88:04]
Jonathan Cohen
Yes. And most of the talking points are boiled down to taglines that they test. Does this, does this test well? Are you going to get a bunch of people cheering for this tagline like it's, it's divulged into. No one wants to actually talk about policy. Like it wasn't that long ago that people would get up and a politician would be like, here are the five things that I'm going to make the cornerstone of the focus when I get into office. Now, either one side wants to make American great. The other side wants to bring back hope. What does that even mean?
- [88:45]
Mayim Bialik
Joy. They want to bring back joy. Your choices are greatness or joy.
- [88:51]
Jonathan Cohen
But if you get to be great, then you will have joy. And if you have joy, then you can have greatness. So like, there's no differentiation.
- [88:59]
Mayim Bialik
There's also, you know, a level of kind of mudslinging that, that existed in a different way in Connie's time. But you know, when I even think about, you know, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, right. I think they were in a debate together. Well, there was like, look, there were like shots below the belt, right. But the bar has been lowered so much and it's like it, it is unrecognizable even from 15 years ago, we
- [89:29]
Jonathan Cohen
literally had a vice president candidate talking about how another vice president candidate had sex with a coach. Like, that's a running thing. And I'm not saying he did or didn't. I'm just talking about the level of discourse that we're currently at. Like, could you imagine George Bush having that conversation? When was that? In the 2000s? I've lost my life.
- [89:58]
Connie Chung
I'm Canadian.
- [89:58]
Jonathan Cohen
I don't know, it just seems just utterly insane that that is how we communicate now.
- [90:06]
Mayim Bialik
Well, Connie, you know, lived through it all and also just from such an interesting perspective, you know, that she was so aware of what she sort of had to be and also that she had to be that in her family. And I think so many, you know, people and women in particular, I think can relate to that. You know, when we get out into the work sector, we're in many ways repeating what we were raised in. Right. Whatever role we had, whatever, you know, whatever duties we had in our family, we often take those into the office space. And, you know, we've talked here before about sort of how then the politics of the office become the politics of parenting. Right. Because, oh, this is how I had to work to get ahead. So then, of course, mothering becomes a competition of whose kid will say the Alphabet first, whose kid will walk first, who will eat solids first, who will wean first. You know, everything becomes this competition. So it's kind of like we're bouncing between my duties in the home, my duties at work, bringing them back to the duties at home, and then you're raising a kid in this ultra competitive atmosphere, and we wonder why everything is crazy. Anyway, that sort of sums up where we're at. Thank you, Connie Chung. From our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.
- [91:14]
Connie Chung
It's Maya Bialik's breakdown.
- [91:17]
Mayim Bialik
She's gonna break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. Non fiction.
- [91:23]
Connie Chung
And now she's gonna break down. So break down.
- [91:26]
Mayim Bialik
She's gonna break it down.
- [91:30]
Connie Chung
This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company.
- [91:33]
Mayim Bialik
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