Yale Psychiatrist on the Science of Manifestation, The Truth of Your Intuition, Reconnecting to our Souls and Why Mental Health Needs Spirituality! | Dr. Anna Yusim

Summary

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Mayim Bialik's Breakdown

Episode: Yale Psychiatrist on the Science of Manifestation, Intuition, Reconnecting to Our Souls, and Why Mental Health Needs Spirituality!

Guest: Dr. Anna Yusim
Release Date: February 10, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the dynamic intersection of spirituality and mental health through the lens of both science and personal experience. Dr. Anna Yusim, award-winning Yale psychiatrist and clinical assistant professor, joins Mayim and Jonathan to discuss the science behind spiritual manifestation, the role of intuition, soul work, and why addressing the spiritual is a vital component of true mental well-being. The conversation covers scientific research, practical tools, personal anecdotes, and a compassionate look at how ancient and modern wisdom can be integrated into Western psychiatric practices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Spirituality and Mental Health Are Not Separate

• Perception vs. Reality

  • Dr. Yusim dispels the myth that spirituality and mental health are separate or incompatible.
  • Quote [07:36]:
    "The misconception is that the two are actually very separate and distinct. ... But I believe that they actually are so interlinked." – Dr. Anna Yusim

• Empiricism vs. Subjectivity

  • Science values measurable, repeatable phenomena; spirituality seems deeply personal and subjective.
  • Dr. Yusim argues for their integration and emphasizes emerging research that connects the two.

Scientific Research on Spirituality

• Empirical Findings

  • Studies show weekly church attendance can reduce suicide rates by up to five times for heteronormative populations, but may not benefit— and may harm—LGBTQ groups ([08:50], [11:01]).

  • The moral prohibition against suicide is the strongest protective factor, even more so than community or routine.

    Quote [11:01]: "The number one factor is actually a moral prohibition against suicide that churchgoing instills in people." – Dr. Anna Yusim

• Beyond Religion

  • Recent decades show people increasingly identify as spiritual but not religious: a trend away from institutional religion and toward individualized spiritual practice ([12:18]).
  • Practices such as yoga, meditation, and time in nature represent secular spirituality.

The Pathways to Spiritual Awakening

• Suffering and Spiritual Growth

  • Many initiate spiritual exploration after experiencing suffering ([20:31]).
  • The “roadmap” to awakening is unique and often nonlinear.

• Manifestation as Deliberate Action and Being

  • Two main ways to manifest:

    1. Action/Intent (“masculine”): Setting goals and working hard.
    2. State of Being (“feminine”): Elevating vibrational frequency and aligning with desired outcomes ([21:55], [23:41]).

    Quote [21:55]: "There are two primary ways to manifest. One is deliberate action and intent ... and the other one is not about doing, but much more about being." – Dr. Anna Yusim

The Science of Raising Your Frequency

• Frequency as Metaphor and Mechanism

  • Raising frequency means moving from contraction (fear, anger, sadness) to expansion (joy, peace, gratitude) ([23:41], [27:31]).

  • Practical ways to re-tune include therapy, meditation, gratitude, service, and specific trauma or unconscious-pattern work.

    Quote [27:31]: "Metaphorically raising your frequency ... is moving from a state of contraction to a state of expansion." – Dr. Anna Yusim

• Neurological Evidence

  • Research at Yale and Columbia shows specific brain regions activate with spiritual practices like prayer, meditation, gratitude, and purpose ([25:55]).

Overcoming Unconscious Blocks

• Unconscious Sabotage

  • Psychoanalysis, hypnotherapy, psychedelics, and bibliotherapy (self-help books) can support uncovering and shifting self-sabotaging patterns ([34:49], [36:03]).

    Quote [34:49]: "Probably Sigmund Freud's greatest contribution ... was the understanding of the unconscious mind." – Dr. Anna Yusim

• Intergenerational Healing

  • Family patterns and psychological “codes” can be inherited, just like traits ([44:00], [46:35]).

  • Techniques like genograms and constellation therapy can help identify and heal these issues.

    Quote [46:35]: "Those patterns, not only psychologically but, you know, energetically, are imprinted on the individual." – Jonathan Cohen

Family Dynamics & Energy Boundaries

• Managing Family Conflicts

  • Ideally, conflicts are processed together, except where there is danger or explicit need for space ([48:44], [49:24]).
  • "Energy vampires" can only take what you allow; developing boundaries is key.

• Quote [52:09]: "They need something from you. You can no longer give them what they need." – Dr. Anna Yusim

Intuition and the "Four Clairs"

• Types of Intuition:

  1. Clairvoyance: Seeing images or visions (“mind's eye”)
  2. Clairaudience: Hearing messages
  3. Clairsentience: Feeling intuitions in your body or emotions
  4. Claircognizance: Just knowing, an immediate understanding without explanation ([52:09], [55:15]).

  Quote [52:15]: "There are the four clairs... clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience, and claircognizance." – Dr. Anna Yusim

• Channeling and Mental Health

  • The same capacities (especially hearing voices) can be mystical or pathological depending on context, control, and outcome.

  • Scientists are studying why some “voice hearers” are empowered while others develop psychosis ([53:59], [56:37]).

    Quote [56:37]: "Where you are and where your frequency is ... is what you're tapping into." – Dr. Anna Yusim

• The Source of Intuitive Information

  • May come from within (the soul), from intergenerational patterns, or from a greater universal “field” (the Akashic records, collective consciousness, etc.).

    Quote [56:37]: "One of the highest forms ... is the infinite field ... it has information, answers ... there's this thing called the Akashic records ..." – Dr. Anna Yusim

Spiritual Growth: Cautions and Potentials

• Victim Mentality and Agency

  • Some may default to blaming the universe, externalizing their problems.
  • Recognizing and shifting this pattern is essential for empowerment ([42:15], [42:48]).

• Intergenerational Cycles

  • “The buck stops here” work stops passing down emotional, psychological, and spiritual wounds.

    Quote [37:57]: "...as you start to look at intergenerational patterns ... you then make the unconscious conscious. And suddenly ... you finally have control over it." – Dr. Anna Yusim

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Realization of Spiritual and Psychiatric Integration ([32:30]):
  "When I went to speak at Yale, I saw my old professors, they liked my book and they actually invited me back on faculty. ... Rather than dismissing it, Yale was ready for it, like society was ready for that integration."
  – Dr. Anna Yusim
• Spiritual Experience Through Suffering ([20:31]):
  "A lot of people get to the end result of a spiritual experience through suffering of some kind."
  – Jonathan Cohen
• On Psychic Messages ([00:06]):
  "That which we can see with our eyes and hear with our ears is only 1% of reality. 99% of reality is unseen and unheard."
  – Dr. Anna Yusim
• On Intuition ([40:40]): "Intuition is an epiphenomena of consciousness. It is also the voice of the soul."
  – Dr. Anna Yusim

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Key Timestamps

• [07:36] The biggest misconceptions about spirituality and mental health
• [08:50] Science showing the impact of spirituality on physical and mental health
• [11:01] Weekly church attendance, suicide studies, and the moral prohibition factor
• [12:18] The evolving definitions of religious and spiritual identity
• [20:31] Suffering as a catalyst for spiritual awakening
• [21:55] The two ways of manifesting: action vs. being
• [23:41], [27:31] What it means to “raise your frequency”
• [25:55] The neuroscience of spiritual experience
• [34:49] Unconscious patterns and sabotage—a Freudian perspective
• [36:03] Examples of self-sabotage and how they manifest
• [44:00], [46:35] Intergenerational pattern transmission and constellation therapy
• [48:44], [49:24] Family conflict, energy vampires, and boundaries
• [52:09], [55:15] The Four Clairs—types of intuitive information
• [56:37] Discussion of where spiritual information “resides”
• [58:39] Conclusion and lead-in to Part Two

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Tone and Delivery

• The conversation is a blend of skeptical inquiry (Mayim’s scientific background), lived experience, and expert opinion.
• Playful, open-minded, yet grounded in evidence and a desire for clarity.
• Frequent clarifications for listeners who may feel skeptical, anxious, or confused by spiritual language.
• Gentle, supportive, and inclusive of all perspectives—whether religious, spiritual, neither, or both.

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Takeaways

• Spirituality and mental health reinforce—not contradict—each other.
• Intuition has both spiritual and scientific explanations; exploring both deepens self-understanding.
• Healing requires both conscious action and addressing unconscious or inherited patterns.
• Manifestation is more than goal-setting; it involves aligning inner being as well as outward action.
• Boundaries and conscious awareness help navigate complex family and energetic dynamics.
• The “Four Clairs” describe diverse ways intuition presents—everyone has dominant modes.
• Ongoing scientific research continues to illuminate spiritual experiences in the brain.

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For Further Exploration

Listeners are encouraged to check out Part Two (in which psychics, spirit guides, pitfalls, psychedelics, and kabbalistic perspectives are discussed), and Dr. Anna Yusim’s book and exercises available via the podcast’s Substack.

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(End of Summary)

Transcript

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

This psychic and a young child come up to me and the psychic says, I'm a psychic. I have a message for you. Can I give you a message?

[Mayim Bialik]

What?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

This woman starts telling me all of these deep truths about my life, including the name of the guy that I had a crush on. I don't know if she read my mind. There's no way this woman could have known. And she knew. That which we can see with our eyes and hear with our ears is only 1% of reality. 99% of reality is unseen and unheard.

[Mayim Bialik]

Dr. Anna Yusum. She's an award winning psychiatrist. She's a clinical assistant professor at Yale Medical School and has spent years studying all of the spiritual traditions to find what can she bring to her western practice that can really transform lives.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Nobody wants to consciously self sabotage, but we do. There's something holding us back. Intuition is an epiphenomena of consciousness. It is also the voice of the soul. Your connection to the part of us that already knows what is best for us in any given situation. How can you receive intuitive information? The four clairs, Clairvoyance, clairaudience, clairsentience and claircognizance. Which is when you just know. Just by virtue of knowing.

[Mayim Bialik]

There are people who hear things routinely.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

At the quantum level. We're matter and energy. We need to clear out whatever blockages we have within ourselves. Ego, anger, jealousy, hatred, depression. All of those things that are so human, if we don't know how to metabolize it, they contract us, lower our frequency and prevent us from having the best life possible. Ultimately, there are two primary ways to manifest. One is.

[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

Make sure you enter our show after checkout so that they know that we sent you helixleep.com breakdown hey Sal. Hank. What's going on? We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, huh? And it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

[Mayim Bialik]

Buy your car today on Carvana.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Delivery fees may apply.

[Mayim Bialik]

Hi, I'm Maya Bialik.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And I'm Jonathan Cohen.

[Mayim Bialik]

And welcome to our breakdown.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Welcome to our expansion into the psychic realm.

[Mayim Bialik]

What's that I hear? Is it intuition?

[Jonathan Cohen]

It may be one of the four Claire's.

[Mayim Bialik]

Today we're going to be talking about a variety of aspects of our spiritual experience that directly impacts our brains, our nervous systems and everything that we decide. If you're not sure why spirituality touches every part of your life and existence, you're going to want to hear this episode today.

[Jonathan Cohen]

If you want to develop better intuition, if you want to feel connected to something greater, if you want to access your guides and guardian angels, this is the episode for you.

[Mayim Bialik]

If you're rolling your eyes at the mention of guardian angels and guides, this episode is also for you because we're going to talk about what is actually happening when we tap into information that is not available in any physical sense. What does it mean to say that there is spiritual energy in the universe that surround us all the time? Why are some people able to tap into it and others roll their eyes at it when we talk about the four Claires, you may have heard of clairvoyance, but have you heard of clair cognizance? Have you heard of clairaudience? Have you heard of clairsentience? We're going to learn about the four clairs and what it means to be in touch with information in the energetic and spiritual realm.

[Jonathan Cohen]

And if you think this is a very out there conversation, we're having it with a psychiatrist and an MD that has been trained at some of the world's best academic institutions.

[Mayim Bialik]

Who is the psychiatrist who is so deeply tuned into the spiritual realm? Her name is Dr. Anna Yusum. She's an internationally recognized, award winning, board certified, Stanford and Yale educated psychiatrist and also a coach. She has clients including Forbes 500 CEOs, Olympic athletes and A Listers. Her book is how the science of spirituality can help you live a happier, more meaningful life. She's a clinical assistant professor at Yale Medical School and the co founder of the Yale Mental Health and Spirituality Program and Center which bridges the Yale Medical School and the Yale Divinity School. She is an incredible expert on all things psychology, psychiatry and mysticism. She's traveled to over 70 countries and has spent years studying all of the spiritual traditions to try and find what is in common and what can she bring to her western practice that can really transform lives. We talk about autoimmunity, we talk about depression, anxiety. We talk about trauma. Also included in this episode is a conversation about prayer.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Be careful what you pray for because you may not like the results. She explains why the law of attraction may not be working for you.

[Mayim Bialik]

We're gonna have Dr. Useom explain all of this and break all of this down. It's a wonderful episode. We cannot wait for you to hear it. And please hop over to substack because Dr. Useom's book also contains a ton of exercises and meditations and we're going to feature one of those just for our Substack listeners. So please go over to bialikbreakdown.substack.com for content you cannot and will not get anywhere else. Dr. Anna Youssom, welcome to the Breakdown. Break it down.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Thank you so much Mayim. It's amazing to be here with you today.

[Mayim Bialik]

There's so many different aspects of spirituality, of mental health, of psychiatry that you are an expert in. Before we get started, what would you say is the biggest misperception people have about spirituality and mental health?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

It's a great question and I would say that the misconception is that the two are actually very separate and distinct and so called strange bedfellows. And the reason people have that misconception is because often everything that is scientific and medical is seen as subject to experimentation, to double blind placebo controlled trials. Something you can touch with your hands, hear with your Ears, very empirical. Whereas spirituality is something that is deeply subjective, transcendent, very personal, and hard to reproduce. You know, experimentation and replication. Which is why the science of spirituality is often such a paradox and a mystery to many. But I believe that they actually are so interlinked. And that's what we will talk about today.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, I think a lot of people want that intersection because they want proof, because it can be so subjective. And we talk about spiritual awakening, how people are often touched and their lives are transformed and they have miraculous health benefits, and yet people want a roadmap, and there doesn't seem to be one. What have you discovered as you've studied this from a scientific basis? What is there a roadmap? What should people know is possible?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

That is also such a great question because you're exactly right. People want certainty. They want something they can touch. What do I have to do to get better, A, B, C, D? I have to become spiritual? What does that even mean? What if I don't believe in God? What if I believe in mother Nature and I'm in flow, but God has never really been there for me? What if God abandoned me when I got cancer? You know, what if I have all these beliefs that are in contrast to this whole spiritual thing that everybody's pushing on me? So I think that a lot of people encounter that. The way that you can answer a question like that is twofold. One is to look at the science, because there's been a ton of science at this point looking at how spiritual beliefs and practices could actually improve physical and mental health as well as well being. And there's numerous studies showing that, for instance, going to church on a regular basis reduces suicide by up to five times. And so this is weekly church attendance. Humongous effect size on suicide reduction. Very interesting. This is for both men and women. However, it's not for every population. Do you have a sense of what population might not have that effect? The LGBTQ community. So it's more the heteronormative communities. Churchgoing reduces suicide. Lgbtq, the opposite effect. Very interesting. Right? But the effect sizes for those people for whom it does reduce it. Very profound, very powerful, very real effects. And then you look even deeper. What is it about churchgoing that reduces suicidality? Right. And there's many different things. Is it the community? Is it beliefs about healthy living? Is it having, you know, something to do every Sunday at noon? Is it something, you know, much deeper? And there's actually one primary thing that was at the root of it all. That was the number One factor, whereas all the rest also came into play, and it wasn't any of the ones I mentioned. Any ideas what that is?

[Jonathan Cohen]

I want to believe that it is some connection and feeling that you're a part of something and that you matter in some way outside of the social connection. I want to believe that, you know, from a spiritual experience, we are touched in some way that we can't ignore.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

I think that that also is a huge, huge part of it. But interestingly, the number one factor is actually a moral prohibition against suicide that church going instills in people.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Wow.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

So very interesting. Right. That was all the other factors, what you said as well. Feeling that you have a connection to the divine, being connected to your inner essence for the first time. How can that not be significant? And yet the number one thing is the moral prohibition. And this is all based on Tyler Vanderweel's research at Harvard's center for Human Flourishing. So it's data like this that's super interesting and super compelling. And they have this for recovery from cancer, recovery from addiction, so many other things as well. Depression, anxiety, et cetera. Spiritual beliefs and practices consistently having positive effects. But, you know, in nuanced ways similar.

[Jonathan Cohen]

To this, let's separate out spiritual belief and practice from religion because it's such a murky area for people. The institution of religion, as you mentioned, especially for people who may be not in the heteronormative community, the morality there or the judgment there can have a negative effect. So let's talk without religion. What does it mean to have a spiritual experience?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Yeah, and I also love that you brought in religion and the distinction between the two. And so, according to the Pew Research center and all the studies there, there's four groups among us. We are either spiritual and religious, spiritual but not religious, religious but not spiritual, and neither religious nor spiritual. And interestingly, over the past 25 years, two groups have been going up and two have been going down. The two that have been going up are both of the groups with spirituality. The two that have been going down are both of the groups with religion. Religion is going down in our community, in our country and our society, and it's being replaced by people wanting more of a spiritual belief. So anything that is more orchestrated, ritualized, with authoritative, is starting to go down, replaced by a more personal connection to the divine, whatever that means to somebody, whether that is in a more religious way, because you can be spiritual through being religious, or. Or in a more secular way, which is connection through yoga, meditation, something that is, you know, connected to you and your divine essence, such as a connection to nature, psychedelics, et cetera. All of these ways are ways in which people can connect to their spiritual essence and spiritual self.

[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

T r.com after your purchase they'll ask you how you found them. Please show your support for the show and let them know that we sent you. A lot of people get to the end result of a spiritual experience through suffering of some kind.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

For sure.

[Mayim Bialik]

I just keep racking up the suffering and waiting for the spiritual awakening to happen.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

We all are mayim. Unfortunately you're like what's on the other side? How do we, you know, speed that process up? Exactly. Where's the roadmap?

[Jonathan Cohen]

The other thing I think that happens is that people who have a spiritual experience or who Are seeking it, believe that there is some understanding of how the universe works, how to navigate life that they are missing. Right. Like it's this multiple sided benefit. Yes, there are physical benefits which we want to touch on. Yes. There are internal benefits like more inner peace, more clarity, less anxiety and depression. And then like the third bucket is actually like. I'm not saying life is going to be perfect, but there's this belief that we are all here for some purpose and by increasing our senses we can navigate the world differently. And I'm not saying we achieve X, Y or Z or have this many cars or anything, but there's something where we are in acceptance and life unfolds in a way that seems to make some kind of sense instead of random chaos. Can you talk a little bit about the people who are seeking the third and then we'll cover all of them.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Absolutely, absolutely. And what this makes me think of, you know, I talk a lot about manifestation. That's a very popular buzzword these days. Right. And you think about how do you manifest? And I think that there are two primary ways to manifest. One is deliberate action and intent, which some people may equate as the more masculine way of manifesting. You set a goal, you say, I'm going to do this. You work very hard, you make it happen. Great. We all know how to do this. This is how we got through graduate school, medical school, became a neuroscientist, et cetera. And then there's the other way, which is not about doing, but much more about being. And in being, you essentially figure out how to embody the most joy and peace that you can possibly embody and essentially have this thing called a vibrational frequency. And have your vibrational frequency become a match for the vibrational frequency of whatever it is that you're trying to draw in. And in that state of being, you set your intention, you do what you have to do, but it's very different. You don't go out and make it happen. It's like a surrender and receiving. And this is the two ways that I think that we as humans manifest. One is what? Very action oriented, masculine, let's do it. The other one is more feminine, receiving. Let's be, let's enhance our state of being and let's receive what we can from the divine.

[Mayim Bialik]

You know, I think that there's a certain amount of hand waving that sometimes goes on when people talk about raising their vibration. You know, it is something that does have a, a practical nature to it. In certain forms of yoga, we actually you know, kind of work on, I don't know, I think working in these arenas of raising a frequency. But maybe Dr. Youssom could explain to us sort of what that means in terms of matching it with that of someone else.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, like, ultimately we are energetic beings and we also are matter. So we're matter and energy. And with, as such, we have a frequency, as does all matter and energy. And, you know, in a way, like sometimes we. We have our own destiny, but we might want a destiny that's a little bit of a different destiny. And in order to reach that destiny, we need to clear out whatever blockages we have within ourselves that lower our frequency. And what are the things that lower our frequency? We can think about those things. And this is from my studies of Kabbalah way back in the day. You know, the manifestations of ego. So our anger, our jealousy, our hatred, our sadness, our depression. All of those things that our so human and that we've all felt and are so normal. And yet if we don't know how to metabolize it, if those things become a part of it, they contract us, lower our frequency, and prevent us from having the best life possible. And so that's one of the ways of increasing your frequency. And the other way is filling yourself with the positives, filling yourself with joy, peace, living with purpose and mission based, purpose driven, contented action in the context of your life, serving others, interacting with gratitude and awe, which are like the spiritually adjacent, you know, entities and states of being on a regular basis.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It feels like this is the intersection of the spiritual language that is common and popularized and the quantum science, neurophysiology. Can we bridge these two? Because a lot of people hear this, I'm gonna raise my frequency. And they're kind of like, okay, sure. But like, is that just something that I'm like thinking, is it in my body? Is it in my quantum field? Whatever that means. Like, how do we bring these two different disciplines together to make this really understandable?

[Mayim Bialik]

What is the mechanism by which spiritual connection, manifestation is actually changing? Right. Things about our, our. Our hormone profile, hormonal profile, our physiology, our mood. What is the mechanism for that?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

I think that's a great question. And there's people who are devoting their life to studying that. We have Dr. Mark Potenza at Yale, where I'm based, and we have Lisa Miller at Columbia. So the two of them together have done studies looking at the neural correlates of spiritual experience. So there are certain regions of the brain that get activated when you think about God, when you pray, when you are in gratitude, when you feel aligned with your purpose. Right. And also, you know, because spirituality is something that is so encompassing. And it can be secular or religious. For instance, a form of secular spirituality is meditation. There are tons of benefits of meditation. Helping with hormones, with somatic processes, with anxiety, with your sympathetic and parasympathetic system. Balance with regulating your vagus nerve. Tons of studies showing all that and different meditation techniques showing subtlety and variation in that. But nevertheless, the finding is clear that meditation over the long term has a huge impact mechanistically. So I think that to answer that question, we first have to say, what part of spirituality do we mean? And then looking at each part of spirituality, really look at what the science shows. And there is a lot of science.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Circling back to frequency raising. How does that help us navigate life. Or get the life that is one step beyond or two steps beyond where we're currently at?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

We're talking about it, yes, at the quantum level. I do believe frequencies raise. But I talk about it really more mechanistically as a metaphor. Metaphorically raising your frequency. And this is moving. Moving from a state of contraction to a state of expansion. And we all know what it's like to be contracted, right? To feel stuck, to feel scared, to feel fear. To be in those ego states that I mentioned. Control, fear and sadness, depression, anger, hatred, jealousy, all of those things. Nobody wants to be there. And we all know what it's like to be in expansion, right? And so what do you do? How do you go from one to the other? And there's many, many different ways. There's many different. And I think that first the distinction has to be. There's things that you can consciously. And then there's ways in which you have to work on your unconscious. Because there's a lot of aspects of us. That we can change everything consciously. But still not be receiving in life that which we hope to receive. And why is that? It's because there's something holding us back in our deeply held unconscious core beliefs. That needs rectification and release and metabolism. And until that happens, whatever conscious work we do to raise our frequency and remove blockages is going to hinder us. So this is a very powerful, important step to doing unconscious work. And there's many different ways to do that. From psychoanalysis to hypnosis to unconscious reprogramming. You know, through hypnotic suggestion. With certain therapists who are trained in that. And psychedelics can do that for people as well. In certain circumstances, certain trauma work can do that for people. And then at the conscious level, you align, you know, with. With expansion to the degree that you are able. And I can talk much more about all that, too.

[Jonathan Cohen]

What comes to mind when you're explaining this is like, there could be a solution that you haven't even thought about yet because you're so worried about finding the solution that life can't unfold and give you an opportunity. I want something so badly that I'm just gonna force a solution versus sitting back and saying I have to have a little bit of trust in order for that solution to unfold, which can be a terrifying component.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

I completely agree. And this is, I think, the most powerful part of faith, which is surrender, is that you do your. Whatever it is that you are seeking to manifest or that you would like to have happen. You do your work in the physical world, you give 100%. And then you have to trust and have faith and believe that there is also something greater that is supporting you. If you're a spiritual person, if you choose to live this way, right? And in doing so, when you surrender, you're exactly right, that magic can happen. Things can come into your consciousness through synchronicity, into your intuition, and you can see things in a new way or something can present that you never, ever would have thought that was a solution to a problem. And this happens in magical ways. For instance, with mathematicians and artists who are trying to solve something in their mind. They do all their conscious work, and then finally they go to sleep and they wake up with a solution. That's one way that that manifests. And in other ways, people are trying really to solve a problem in their life, and then one day, a solution just comes from out of the blue. They're like, I never would have thought of this. And they're like, thank you very much. And, you know, they thank the divine for the intervention.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's like, you. You're mentally trying to solve this problem. You can't figure it out. Finally you give up, and you're like, I'm just gonna go get a coffee and enjoy myself. And you end up having a conversation with someone in line at the coffee shop where they say something, and all of a sudden the problem opens up for you, and you see it totally differently. Mime likes to joke, as she did earlier, that she's just in the suffering part. But all the time she's like, oh, I saw this differently. And if we try to help people understand what a spiritual awakening is, I think we have to dismiss the idea that it is somehow all of a sudden I'm floating on a cushion and I don't touch the ground anymore because I've achieved such a grand state of enlightenment. And instead it is about these moments of shifted awareness that all of a sudden I have a problem and I haven't been able to figure it out and a solution is available in a way that I hadn't imagined before.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Yeah, I love that. And also, you know, a Course in Miracles, which is a spiritual framework there they describe a miracle as a shift in perception, just like you said. And that's exactly it. We see the world anew, our mind expands, our life expands. Very powerful.

[Mayim Bialik]

You know, many of these things are, are generally kept separate from the fields of psychiatry, from, you know, kind of the classic Western materialist perspective. I wonder, did you receive any pushback when you started incorporating some of this spiritual perspective into your practice and into your kind of worldview? And how have you, you know, how have you managed to balance that?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Yeah, so I anticipated receiving a great deal of that when I first wrote my book, which was integrating mental health and spirituality. But I also was very committed to writing the book in truth, based on my research and my experience. And so I went to Stanford for undergrad, Yale for medical school, then nyu. Then I very deliberately chose not to be affiliated with an academic institution as I wrote my book and started my practice for the next you number of years. And after I wrote my book, I started talking at different schools, at, you know, Kripalu, Multiversity, all these different places. And when I went to speak at Yale, I saw my old professors, they liked my book and they actually invited me back on faculty. And that was like a shock and such an amazing revelation that here I put something out there that was really kind of out there. And rather than dismissing it, Yale was ready for it, like society was ready for that integration. And that was when in 2017, we started talking about the creation of this mental health and spirituality center, which would be at Yale, a bridge between the divinity school and the medical school. And we started working on that. And we're still, you know, working on that. We have the program now, we're going to have the center when we have enough funds for that, and eventually, God willing, an institute which will also grant degree granting programs at the intersection of mental health and spirituality. So I anticipated having a lot more pushback, but because I think because I tried to approach it in the most scientific way I could and had wonderful colleagues in psychiatry stand behind me in my Work. I think that was incredibly helpful and Yale accepted it and has been super supportive of the work thereafter.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Here's an area that has a lot of crossover between what I will call the spiritualist language and the medical psychoanalysis language. The notion that at a unconscious level there may be things happening that are running our perception, running our beliefs that we don't even realize are happening, that make it seem like the world is this horrible place, that make it seem like we can't get anywhere, that we're stuck in some way. You mentioned doing this unconscious work. Can you talk a little bit about that level of programming that is influencing and filtering people's reality?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Absolutely. And this was probably Sigmund Freud's greatest contribution to the field of psychiatry was the understanding of the unconscious mind. And the idea of the unconscious mind comes from the fact that you have your conscious mind where you will certain things, but then you also see how you as a human being will self sabotage. Right? How certain things just for whatever reason don't seem to work out. In certain parts of your life you have challenges. Right. In my book, I call these our soul corrections or tikuns, those things that come up in our lives again and again and again, often much to our chagrin and dismay and despite our best efforts to change it. Sigmund Freud call these your repetition compulsion. The same idea. It's those things that are your particular self sabotage pattern. And so nobody wants to consciously self sabotage, but we do. So what is that unconscious process by virtue of being human, you will self sabotage. Now the question is, what is your unique self sabotaging pattern? And it's often through therapy, working with a professional, you can see how this, you know, someone can hold a mirror to how this can work for you.

[Mayim Bialik]

Can you give us some examples? Just because, you know, there's people who don't want to cheat, but end up cheating, or there's people who, they don't want to drink to excess, but they can't seem to control their addiction. Am I thinking of good examples?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Those, those are great examples. It's that you want to be faithful, but for whatever reason you can't be faithful. That you make an intention, you make an intention to yourself, to your spouse, and then you don't end up being faithful over and over. What is sabotaging you? What is the unconscious pattern that you are playing out? And the same thing, you really want a relationship, you want a healthy, stable relationship with an amazing man or. And yet you keep drawing in emotionally unavailable men or women. And you know, and why is that? You want one thing, but you keep drawing in the other. So what is the delta? What's the gap? And there's so many different reasons for that, for, you know, on both sides. Like, we can. If you want, we can dissect, and I can give you, like, the 10 reasons that, like, this could happen.

[Mayim Bialik]

Just send me your bill, and I'll be happy to do that.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Exactly what are some of the reasons people.

[Jonathan Cohen]

People often think they're like, well, it's unconscious. I don't know how to get to it. I don't have all this endless time to circle around and discover it.

[Mayim Bialik]

Most people don't have financial resources also to do that.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Absolutely. In which case, bibliotherapy. Get some really, really good books and start drilling down and start understanding yourself through books. Yeah. You know, and all the podcasts, all the amazing content that is put online. But often working with a professional, of course, is, if people are able, much better. But let's talk about that. Let's talk about why somebody who says that they really, really want a relationship, let's say a woman with, like, a. She wants a wonderful man, a committed man with whom she could have a family. And who does she draw in train wrecks? She draws in train wrecks. One train wreck after the other, right? This guy is dating five other women. This guy she has to take care of, like, she's his mother. This guy ends up up stealing from her.

[Mayim Bialik]

Now, she's got to be polyamorous, but he's the one who wanted it. She's not even sure what polyamorous is, but. Okay, we'll try it.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Exactly. Exactly. Right? And so, so, so many different ways to understand this. Right? And this can be understood first from the lens of, you know, her own upbringing, that as much as she wants this healthy, stable relationship, she might not have the pattern for it. She might have the default pathway of something totally different based on what her parents are playing. So she might be running that old program without even realizing it. It option one, Option two, which can coincide with option one, she really, really wants commitment, but there's a part of her that's also terrified of commitment, right? And so she also loves to be free, and she's strong and independent. And so in being terrified of commitment, how better to avoid commitment than to constantly draw in emotionally unavailable men or train wrecks, things that don't work out, Right? So those are just two, but there's so many more. And as you go with somebody deep into this work, you can understand why they're making the choices they're making. And ultimately, as you start to look at intergenerational patterns, because usually the patterns that you observe with somebody are not just with this person. They go from their parents and from the grandparents. You start to understand the intergenerational shifts. And in understanding those shifts, you then make the unconscious conscious. And suddenly when the unconscious is conscious, you finally have control over it. You can make a different choice in a way you couldn't before. And in doing so, what you're doing with the intergenerational pattern is the buck stops here. You're done. You don't pass this on to your children. You actually stop the intergenerational pattern because you have chosen to do the work, metabolize it and let it go. It's very, very powerful work.

[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

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[Mayim Bialik]

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[Jonathan Cohen]

Thank you Remy for sponsoring this episode. The pattern that I see is that when someone is continually ending up in the place that they don't want, when they consciously want something else, what they end up doing is blaming the universe. But when you describe it, that there is this program running that they may not be aware of, the external reality of their lives is actually the perfect reflection of all the mechanisms, all the dominoes that are falling on the inside. They're just falling in silence 100%.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

And I think that the first point that you made about blaming the universe and thereby making oneself the victim of an evil protagonist or an evil God or an evil whatever, that does happen for many people. And that's another subconscious pattern that for whatever reason they learn that in being a victim, they somehow have righteous indignation of the victim. And so they seek out blaming the victim whenever they can. On an unconscious level. They could have learned this somehow or another. They just came into the world and this was a pattern of theirs. And once they recognize that pattern, they can make different choices as well. And that's a very powerful pattern that we, when something goes wrong, tend to internalize it. Oh, this is all my fault. Or we tend to externalize it. It was this person or my parents or an evil God or unjust circumstances. And in different situations it's different. But usually people tend to sway one way or the other. And if people sway too much at blaming themselves, it's actually good to externalize a little bit. But if you are the victim and have victim mentality, it's good to start taking victims more responsibility. What did I do to get here and what kind of control do I have to get myself out?

[Jonathan Cohen]

The other component that you talk about is this idea of intergenerational patterns and, you know, the language that is familiar amongst people in the energy healing world is the notion that I'm going to do the work and break the cycle. Let's unpack that a little bit, because inherent in that is the work of Bert Hellinger and family constellation. Work, work. I want to talk about these intergenerational patterns, and we've heard about the epigenetics work with mice and showing that mice who go hungry, well then multi generations later have, you know, physiological influence of that and impacts of that. So we've seen those studies. But what you're talking about is actually more pervasive whereby a mother or father, or even grandparents, or even great, great grandparents, psychological profile, whether that be pain they're carrying, broken relationships, not being able to accomplish something, fleeing war, fleeing war, fear, intense fear, physical safety issues. Those patterns, not only psychologically but, you know, energetically, are imprinted on the individual. And the way that Bert Hellinger talks about it, and I'm curious how you interpret it, is that because you're a member of the family and you're connected to these people, the child will reflect those patterns, not because they think they have to, but almost as a reflection of being part of the system. It's like, hey, I understand. I speak the same language of this family energetically, even if they never knew that the parent had an affair, even if it was so buried in secret that there's no possible way the conscious would ever have registered it that these patterns are exist. And again, we struggle with the word in the energy realm because it's hard to visualize, but it's almost like there is this code of ones and zeros that are just surrounding us. In a similar way that Niels Thies, when we spoke to him, explained that everyone who lives in a house shares a microbiome in some way. Like that information is just passed back and forth. The same is true with the informational data of our emotional experience and our psychological experience. And so you think, oh, I'm not anything like my parents. But you've received all of this information on a physiological level that you're not even aware of.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

I completely agree. This is why I think constellation therapy is super, super interesting. And doing genograms and seeing the patterns in families. And those patterns can be, like you said, it could be be patterns of addiction or patterns of certain emotional things, or patterns of cheating. Or it could be patterns of, like, here's more subtle patterns of the parentified child of somehow or another the child comes into the world having to take care of the parents because the parents are unstable mentally or physically or weak mentally or physically, and the child is a strong one. And then what that does in a family system is that actually reverses the family system because you're supposed to have. Have the grandparents, the parents, the child, and the energy is supposed to flow down. And the idea of the family system is even after people have passed, the energy is supposed to support you from your ancestors. And if you have the family system aligned in the right way, you get support from your ancestors to have certain processes and patterns work out in your life with the right energetic support. And when that is not present like a parentified child, that, like, flips the. You know, that, like, has the energy flowing the wrong way. And so then you can energetically fix that. Or there could be a pattern of secrets that you know. And you're exactly right. The most interesting thing is, like you said, this is imprinted at the energetic level. People might not even know about secrets consciously, but they just feel it. They know. And children sense everything. Children are sponges. They pick up all of the things of their parents. The parents think the children don't know they know everything. They might not know it consciously, they might not know that they know, but they do know. It's being imprinted in. In every single part of their being. Their energetic being, their physical being, their spiritual being. That's who we become. And so to recognize what patterns exist and see what. Because in every family, there's amazing patterns. There's traits that we love and traits that we want to expand on. And there's also traits that could be really problematic for your life in whatever way. So going through and doing this genogram, really understanding where you fit into the family system and then figuring out how you could do the rectification exercises with that very powerful work. And I've seen it in my practice create huge shifts with families.

[Mayim Bialik]

What happens when there's a conflict in a family? Right. Can you explain a little bit from your perspective Especially as a psychiatrist, right. How do you manage the energetics of a family, let's say, that is in conflict? How do you know when people should be brought back together? How do you know when people should be kept apart? And it also relates to some of the conversations you've had about sort of energy vampires, right? If you sense that someone, let's say, in your life or in your family, is taking something from you energetically when you are with them, is there a way to remedy that? How do you work with that kind of energy conflict?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Great question. So I think we'll take the first one first. So in working with families and couples, how do you know when people should be together and rectifying and when they should be apart? I would say that the goal in families, to the degree that's possible, is always to rectify and to enable people to come together and metabolize whatever is going on and to have safe discourse and to create the space where people can openly discuss what it is that they are experiencing. And the situations where people should be kept apart is if, first of all, if somebody requests that specifically and then to understand the reasons for that. And second, if there is danger, danger to one's safety or any sort of abuse, and in those situations, that could definitely be a different way of treating. But with conflicts, you really want to bring people together. And because conflict is an inevitable part of life, it's an inevitable part of families, of relationships, of being, of friendships. And for people to know how to rectify conflicts and be able to, to speak their truth in a way that is grounded and where they feel heard and where they can be compassionate, that's a very, very powerful skill. If you can learn that in your family, you're going to be very well suited for life. That's the first question, the second question about energy vampires. So it's a very interesting thing because someone can't be an energy vampire unless you let them take your energy, you know, so it's like it's, you know, to some degree, right? And so. And it could be that in certain families there's a person who could be taking more energy and someone doesn't know how to protect themselves. And then in those situations, the person who doesn't know has to do everything they can to learn to protect themselves and to create really, really good boundaries. And so I think that, you know, because you can also think about energy vampires are the people who need to be taken care of, of, and then they will pair up with the caretakers and there'll be A perfect hand in glove relationship that, you know, the energy vampires will be with the people who have so much energy to give and don't know how to do anything but to give. Right. So it could be this beautiful symbiosis until one or both parties decides it's not, and then they decide to revamp things. But if you really do feel that somebody is negatively taking your energy and you don't want that to be a part of your life, there's many different techniques that you can learn, you know, which I talk about in my book, to be able to ground yourself and create the boundaries spiritually, energetically and physically to protect yourself and your energy.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's interesting if you're in a dynamic with someone who you feel draws a lot of energy from you, when you start to create those boundaries, all of a sudden they don't want to be around you.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Well, because you served a purpose in their life and you can no longer serve that purpose. And they really feel it.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Yeah, everything shifts.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

They need something from you. You can no longer give them what they need. Indeed.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Let's talk about clairvoyance. Tell us what you think about it, what your research is discovering.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Yeah. So I think clairvoyance is one of the many forms of intuition. And what is intuition? So I love to, you know, intuition is an epiphenomena of consciousness. Right. That's one, an emergent property of consciousness. And another way of thinking about it is also the voice of the soul. It's like your connection to the deepest part of yourself. So you can get messages through your intuition that are maybe even deeper than what you can get through your rational mind or more profound than what your emotions can tell you. Right. So it's a very deep voice. And how can you receive intuitive information? There are, you know, the four clairs. Clairvoyance, which is when you can see things in your mind's eye. Clairaudience, which is when you can hear a voice like giving you information. Clairsentience, which is where you can feel something in your body. And claircognizance, which is when you just know, just by virtue of knowing. Right. So those are four intuitive pathways that you can, you know, receive information. Clairvoyance, I think, is super, super interesting. And to be clear, also, you know, we talk about hearing voices and seeing things. Those can be incredibly powerful, intuitive properties for us to develop in our lives. And this is what psychics and intuitives can do. And there are also people who are very, very sick and do not know how to control Those very things. They can hear voices and see things and not stop it. And then be diagnosed with schizophrenia, be put on medication, and their life goes down a downward spiral. And so I think that being able to develop those capacities within oneself in a safe, healthy way is an amazing thing and deepens one's intuition. But it's also important to recognize the other side, that it's not always without its problem problems.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm sorry, I. I think everybody is entirely more comfortable with the notion that you could just like hear things than I am.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Let's talk about the four. Let, let's dive into it together. Because I love when you, when you're like, wait, what?

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm like, Everybody's like, oh, you know how you can like hear things and it tells you what to do? No, that's when you call the doctor and you say, I either need more pills or I'll meet you at the er.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Totally. Totally. No, and I, I always, you know, I'm very intuitive, but I can never hear things and I always want to hear things and I'm always listening, thinking that today I'm going to hear it and ever do. So, you know.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Well, each person has a different modality. Often that is their primary modality.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Totally.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm so.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Wait, wait, hold on.

[Mayim Bialik]

I'm not. Jonathan, I'm not ready for this. You're telling me that there are people. I literally am this years old when I'm finding this out. There are people who hear things routinely.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Lee Harris, when he came on the show and, and talked about hearing information, what that was a voice other than their own. Now that's an external channel of some information in the universe, but other people have it as another version of their own voice.

[Mayim Bialik]

Sorry, I, I'm literally this, I'm not, this is not me acting. I just like this hadn't occurred to me because I know people like hear voices and like, oh, it's different than hallucinations. But I never thought of channeling as this kind of receiving in this kind of category. Right, so you said clairvoyance is a visualizing. Clairaudience is a hearing. Hearing clairsentience is feeling, feeling in your.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Body or knowing emotionally, like an emotional knowing or feeling something in your body.

[Mayim Bialik]

And then Claire, cognizant is, is you just know it.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Like it comes as a thought.

[Mayim Bialik]

It's like a knowing. Uh huh. These are new words for me. I like learning new words.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

They're fun words. They're very fun words. And I wouldn't say that they're necessarily scientific. Words and more in the spiritual community. Words. But I think that they're relevant for how people receive intuitive guidance and intuitive information. And they also map on to schizophrenia and psychosis. The other side of this, you mentioned.

[Jonathan Cohen]

The idea of the soul and intuition being a connection to our soul's knowing. Where do you think this information lives? Is in us? Is it outside of us? Are we part of a big computer simulation? How do you imagine it?

[Mayim Bialik]

Also, what is it? Right? Like, what are we talking? I don't mean to sound like Bill Clinton, but, like, what are we? What is is?

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Yeah, okay, let's. Let's first address what is is. Okay. Is. Is. No, so we exist here as human beings, but I think that we are not alone here. And there's many different, you know, places to tap in for information. And. And one of the highest forms of places that you can tap in is the infinite field. And this is the, you know, what people describe as an infinite field of knowledge. And it has information, answers. It has, you know, there's this thing called the Akashic records, which is, you know, if you believe in that, we know it well. When people are hearing voices and seeing things, they're tapping into very, very different things because some people are getting beautifully inspired divine information helping them to make the most important decisions in their life in the right way. And other people are getting voices to kill themselves and kill others. Okay, so let's be very clear that people are not always tapping into the same thing. And where you are and where your frequency is, where your mind's frequency is, is what you're tapping into. So you want to get your frequency high, you want to get on the right channels, how to do that, you know. So Al Powers at Yale, one of our scientists, neuroscientists, and researchers, is actually studying precisely that. He compares and contrasts voice healers or psychics with schizophrenics. And he asked the question of what is it about voice hearers that enables them to use this intuitive, clairaudient information in the service of themselves and, you know, their clients? Whereas schizophrenics have no capacity to turn this off, and it could be completely overwhelming and bad things could happen. So he's looking at the mechanism of that, and it's very different. But I'm not sure that Al would have a concrete answer to exactly where it comes from, but he probably would agree with me that it comes from many different places.

[Jonathan Cohen]

But there are all these. Call them radio stations. And it depends on where you are tuning your attention to know where you're receiving that information.

[Dr. Anna Yusum]

Totally. Totally. Yes, exactly.

[Mayim Bialik]

We're going to hit pause on our conversation with Dr. Youssef, but. But part two has got a ton that you're going to want to hear about. Are psychics for real? Can people read your third eye? What does it mean to have spirit guides? How do we tune into what messages they might have for us? And from my perspective, is any of this really real?

[Jonathan Cohen]

We talk about the three types of intuitions that people have and spiritual pitfalls. As you explore the spiritual world, there are dangers that you need to be able to navigate. She also talks about karmic patterns and universal themes that appear across all traditions.

[Mayim Bialik]

We're also going to ask her to explain how psychedelics can help get in touch with our spiritual side. And is that the only way? And in addition, we'll talk a bit about the kabbalistic tradition and how it views our purpose here on this planet.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Most importantly, we talk about why the law of attraction may not be working for you. Head over to bialikbreakdown.substack.com where we are going to be exploring our own law of Attraction and how to pray in a way that is going to truly serve you and help you get the life that you want.

[Mayim Bialik]

We hope you'll tune in for part two of our conversation with Dr. Youssom. And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have. We'll see you next time.

[Jonathan Cohen]

It's my biologics breakdown. She's gonna break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two and now she's gonna break down, so break down. She's gonna break it down.