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- [00:00]
A
Tired of your car insurance rate going up? Even with a clean driving record, you're not alone. That's why there's Jerry, your proactive insurance assistant. Jerry compares rates side by side from over 50 top insurers and helps you switch with ease. Jerry even tracks market rates and alerts you when it's best to shop. No spam calls, no hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over $1,300 a year. Switch with confidence. Download the Jerry app or visit Jerry AI Libson today. That's J E R R Y AI Libsyn. The Gospel of John doesn't mention Jesus birth from a virgin, doesn't show Jesus baptism by John the Baptist and does absolutely nothing to keep his identity a secret. Not even don a pair of glasses. This week, Dr. Bart Ehrman joins me to explain why the Gospel of John is so drastically different from the rest of the New Testament Gospels. Welcome to Ms. Quoting Jesus with Bart Ehrman, the only show where a six time New York Times best selling author and world renowned Bible scholar uncovers the many fascinating little known facts about the New Testament, the historical Jesus and the rise of Christianity. I'm your host, Megan Lewis. Let's begin. Happy October friends. Before we get started, I wanted to let you know about some special offers this month, including courses on sale for up to 50% off, a newly launched Halloween themed course, a way to get Mark Goodacre's latest book for free, and a special buy one get one two offer on our new discussion series Face to Face on the Bible. Proceeds help keep this podcast going and we truly appreciate your support. You can find all the details@barterman.com October and be sure to use the code mjpodcast for a special discount. Hello everybody and welcome back to Misquoting Jesus, where today we are talking about the Gospel of John and why it's quite so different from the Synoptic Gospels. We've also got our bonus segments which this week is a round of Outsmart Bart, so be sure to stick around for that. But before all of that wonderful stuff, how are you doing today?
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B
Yeah, I'm doing pretty well. You know, as we're recording this, we've just, you and I both have finished a very long weekend for the New Insights into the New Testament conference. That was absolutely, I thought it was spectacular. The speakers we had, man, it could not have been any better, I thought. But for you and me, it's kind of exhausting. So we're both hoping we're not completely brain dead. We do this podcast have you recovered?
- [02:41]
A
I thought I had, but then before we hit record, I missed multiple things in my preparation, so I, I don't think I have at all. It was, it was fantastic. It was really interesting, but there was a lot of concentration going on.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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A
So I'm like.
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B
But it was good, man. We've gotten huge, great feedback from it. And justifiably, I just, you know, these speakers we had were so good and so it was just so interesting. So.
- [03:05]
A
Yeah, agreed. And the, the chat was really fascinating as well. People had some great insights during the Q and A sessions.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.
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A
Now, for our icebreaker question, I guess I wanted to ask, given that you've been doing podcasts and interviews for so many years, if you have a favorite interview or one that stands out in your mind, obviously, besides all of our conversations, which are the favorite of everybody.
- [03:33]
B
Yeah. And hugely memorable. You know, we love every one of them, but. Right. A favorite. You know, I don't know if I've had a favorite interview. I've, you know, some interviewers are, are really just so good that you just come away thing, man, that person really knows what they're doing. And so I, I guess I have to mention too, I mean, and they're, they're the kind of big names you would kind of expect. I mean, Sam Harris is a fantastic interviewer. And so I've done his show a couple times and you know, he's not, he's not kind of personally interested in religion in terms of like being committed to or anything, and. But he, he's just so knowledgeable about so many things and he asked such clear, good questions. I think Sam Harris does. But the, the other one is for years and years, I've. Almost anytime I write a book these days, you know, it's like I do Fresh Air with Terry Gross, and she's fantastic. Oh, my God. And I, I don't know how many I've done with her. Eight, ten or something. And they're always good. And I asked her one time, you know, early on, I said, you know, I've never met her face to face. Hardly anybody's actually kind of seen her face because she does these things remotely. But I asked her, I said, terry, how do you do this? Because you interview these people, like every week you have different people doing hugely different things. You have all these questions and that are sewed right on. And I had the impression that she had like, assistance next to her, handing her three by five cards with questions on it. She said, no, no, she get, I get all the books on Thursday night and I spend the weekend reading and I do it all myself. Really? Wow. I mean, one hand that's a great job, but on the other hand there are like, there's like nobody who could do that but she, so. And she's been doing it for a very long time. So.
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A
Yeah, I'd say I always enjoy listening to her interviews as well. She's, she's great. Just her style of asking questions is great.
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B
Yeah, yeah. Very insightful, keen. My. She's very clear minded. Yeah. Yeah.
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A
So thank you for that. Now we should probably get to the Gospel of John, which I introduced at the top of the episode. What do we know about when and where the Gospel of John was written?
- [05:42]
B
Well, the where question is easy. We don't know. Traditionally it's been located as being written by John the son of Zebedee, Jesus disciple in Ephesus. But there's. Apart from later legends, centuries later, there's nothing really to place John the son of Zebedee in Ephesus. And John the son of Zebedee didn't write the book anyway. So we don't know where it was written. It almost certainly was not written in Israel. It was written somewhere outside in the Greek speaking world. When was it written? It. It's almost certainly the last of our gospels. It's. That's been thought since, you know, as soon as people started talking about John back in the second century, they thought of it as the last gospel. And there are very good reasons for thinking it is last. And so that's, that's a virtual consensus among scholars today. And that usually people put it in the 90s of the Common Era, so around 90 or 95 or so for a variety of reasons. But it would mean that it's being written 60, 65 years after Jesus death. And so an account of his life that is over six decades later.
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A
Can you give us a couple of reasons why it's dated so late?
- [06:52]
B
Yeah, so for a long time people thought it was dependent on Matthew, Mark, Luke and Luke. And that's rearing its head again. People are starting to say that if so it had to be after Matthew, Mark and Luke. And there's pretty good reasons for that earliest gospel being written close to after 70 of the Common Era, and Matthew and Luke 10 or 15 years after that. So it had to be after that. It is, it's the most highly theologically developed of our gospels. And you know, developing theology takes time. People don't come, you know, nobody comes up with like a full fledged doctrine on the spot. You know, they develop over time. And so it looks like a much more developed view of Jesus, presupposing a lot of knowledge about Jesus. And so it's generally on those grounds it's dated late. We have a. One reason for thinking it's not much later than that is we do have a man, like a tiny little fragment of a manuscript. It's called p52, Papyrus Number 52 of the New Testament. And it's just the size of a credit card. But some scholars, it's traditionally dated to around the year 125. So it might be from 110, it might be from 140. Somewhere in there you have to have a range of dates, possibilities, but based on the handwriting analysis, it looks like it's early second century to most scholars. And that means. And it's, it's a fragment of Jesus trial before pilate in John 18 to 19. And so it had to be written before that. But it's probably after the Synoptics. And so around 90 to 95 makes sense to most people.
- [08:24]
A
Now in my introduction I talked about the fact that we're going to be investigating why the Gospel of John is so different to the Synoptics. Before we get to the why, could you give us an overview of what the differences is? The differences is what the main differences are between the Gospel of John and the other three New Testament Gospels.
- [08:43]
B
You know, most people don't notice it because the way they read the Gospels, if they read the Gospels, they'll read a passage here, then a passage there. So they'll, you know, they'll pick out something from the Sermon on the Mount and they'll think, oh, today I want to read something from Mark. You know, I'll read some from Luke, I'll read some from John and it's, it all gets mashed together in your head. The way to do it is, is to, is to read them separately. And, but when you read Matthew, Mark and Luke, you have the basic kind of structure that's very similar between Matthew, Mark and Luke. I mean there are lots of differences and lots of add ons, but they all have, for example, you know, Jesus being baptized by John and then going into the wilderness to be tempted for 40 years and cut 40 days and coming out from the wilderness and beginning to preach about the coming kingdom of God. Jesus teaches in these three gospels. He teaches mainly in parables. The first miracle he does in our first Gospel Mark is he casts out demons. And he casts out demons Throughout Matthew, Mark and Luke, halfway through his ministry, he goes up on the mount of Transfiguration and is transfigured before his disciples. When he goes to Jerusalem, he has a last supper where he says, this is my body, this is my blood. He is, you know, he put on trial before the Jewish Sanhedrin. So these are the things, like they make the skeletal outline of Matthew, Mark and Luke. And when you read John, John has none of those stories. So there's no so. I mean, you just. Guys, you know, you kind of start at the beginning. Jesus is not said to be baptized by John the Baptist. John the Baptist appears, but there's nothing about Jesus being baptized by him. There's no temptation in the wilderness. Jesus does not teach about the coming kingdom of God at all. He never tells a parable at all. He never casts out a demon at all. He doesn't go on the mount of Transfiguration. He doesn't, you know, he doesn't get go. He doesn't institute the Lord's Supper. He doesn't. He doesn't appear before the Jewish Sanhedrin. Like, you just go down the list, wow, none of that's there. And so you think, well, what could he be writing about then? So you read John, and it's a bunch of stuff you find only in John. You have a number of very long conversations in John, whereas Matthew, Mark and Luke. Jesus is kind of the master of the one liner and of the parable. You don't get those things in John. You have these long discourses. Chapter three talks to Nicodemus, the whole chapter. Chapter four, he talked to the woman from Samaria versus the whole chapter. It talks most of chapter five, talks most of chapter ten. He has one talk that goes from chapter 13 to 17. He's talking the whole time. It's like so, you know, you got these five chapters, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And he's talking the whole time. And like, you don't get any of that in the synoptic. The miracles. You have several miracles that are shared between them. But John also has miracles of his own. I mean, two of the most famous, the turning water into wine and raising Lazarus, only found in John. So, like, there's so much that's different about them just in terms of the content, let alone the, the emphases.
- [11:39]
A
That's a good lead into my next question. What do authors think? Authors, what do scholars think is the main message that the author of John is trying to get across?
- [11:49]
B
In John's Gospel, Jesus spends most of his time talking about his own identity, who he is. And John emphasizes from beginning to end that Christ is a divine being who is descended from heaven, sent from God in order to reveal the truth that can bring salvation. And that anybody who will believe in him will have. Has. Has now eternal life. And anybody who rejects him is now condemned. And what one has to believe about Jesus is that he's the one that God has sent into the world to reveal the truth. And so it's kind of. It's kind of an irony because it's kind of wrapped within itself. You have to believe. You have to. Jesus is sent from God to reveal the truth, and you have to believe in him. What do you have to believe in him that Jesus sent from God to believe, to reveal the truth? That's what you got to believe. And so that's the overarching message. And so that's what he preaches. And his miracles in John, and only in John, are meant to prove that what he says about himself is right. And so the miracles have a different function and his preaching is different.
- [12:59]
A
We'll get to the miracles in a minute. But I wanted to ask about the Johannine prologue, which is the very beginning of the Gospel of John. And I think it's probably a good way to illustrate how this difference in emphasis comes across in the writing.
- [13:15]
B
Yeah. You know, when you're reading a lot of ancient narratives will begin in a way that will foreshadow what the rest of the thing's going to be. So, like when you begin with the Gospel of Mark, it's John the Baptist preaching a message of repentance, which becomes the whole message of the Gospel. Matthew and Luke begin with a virgin birth. John begins with this prologue. It's very different from beginning. It's a poet. It seems almost poetic. It's like exalted prose of some kind. It doesn't scan the way Greek poetry does, but it's an exalted prose thing. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. Through him were all things made. Apart from him was nothing made. That was made. In him was life, and his life was the light of humans. And so it's going on about this. This thing called the Word of God, the Logos in Greek, the Logos of God. And it's a being that is with God in the very beginning. And he's with God, but he also is God. And this Word creates the universe, and it provides light and it provides life. And then at the end of this prologue. And he says, and the word became flesh and dwelt among us. And so this pre existent creator of the universe that's with God becomes a human being. And then it's identified. It's Jesus Christ is the word of God that has become a human. This is so unlike anything in Matthew, Mark and Luke. And it begins this gospel. It's identifying Christ as a, as an incarnate, a fleshly manifestation of this divine being that was both with God and was God. And so it's a very exalted thing. And so it's embracing an incarnation idea that God became human. And so yeah, it sets the stage, it sets the stage for everything else.
- [15:13]
A
And this would be the kind of more developed theological side of John that you mentioned in your earlier question or early answer.
- [15:22]
B
Scholars tend to differentiate between. It's kind of a simplistic differentiation, but between a high Christology and a low Christology as I, I think we've probably talked about before. Low Christology is when you understand Christ as a human being who was then elevated to divine status. So it's low because he starts out down here like the rest of us as a human being, but then he becomes exalted. A high Christology starts with Christ up above and coming down. So Christ is the divine being who becomes a human being rather than a human being who becomes a divine being. Of course there are shades between these things things. But John definitely has the high Christology and he's the only of the four gospels that does. Christ is a divine being who becomes human. In the other gospels he's a human being and he's somehow divine. But he's not like divine in the sense that he created the universe and that he always existed with God. That is there's not in the vision of Matthew, Mark and Luke.
- [16:19]
A
Thank you. We're going to take a very brief break for some announcements about an upcoming course and when we get back will be looking at how the words and deeds of Jesus in the Gospel of John kind of fit into this high Christology. So. But you have a new course coming up which you're calling the Earliest Christian heresies. It's eight lectures and you're going to be recording it on November 9th. No, November 8th and 9th. What kinds of things are you going to be covering in this? It sounds fantastic.
- [16:50]
B
Oh yeah, this one's fun. I mean it's. I, I've been, I've been deeply interested in this topic since I was like 21 and so and, and have written about it and thought about it and, and taught about it. So, you know, in early Christianity you have huge diversity. You have people who, they say that Jesus was God but he wasn't human, or Jesus was human but he wasn't God. You have people saying that there's only one God. You have people saying there are two gods, some people saying that there are 12 gods, some say there are 36 gods. We know one Christian group that says, are there 365 gods? What, how are they Christian? You know, you have people saying Jesus died for the sins of the world. Other people saying, yeah, Jesus died but had nothing to do with the sins of the world. These are Christians and other people saying Christians saying Jesus never died. And so what? And so how, how are these people Christian? Well, they call, they did consider themselves to be followers of Jesus and they all had books to back up what they said that they, they claimed were written by apostles. And, and we have some of these books. And so my course is like, what in the world is that all about? The relationship of like these earliest Christian heresies, you can trace some of them back into the first century. You have false teachings, so called in the New Testament that are being attacked that lead to these heretical groups of various kinds of things. People like the Gnostics, for example, or the followers of Marcion, or the Jewish Christians who maintain their Jewishness, these groups that end up being declared heretical. And so my course is, what are these people saying? What is their basis? What is there any logic to it? How were they opposed? And, and how is it that one group ended up winning out? You know, was that one group always the dominant group? The orthodoxy? Was it or something else? How did it work? And so this class is eight lectures. We need 80 lectures. But it's going to be eight lectures and I'm going to condense it and it's going to be. I'm really, really looking forward to this one.
- [18:46]
A
Do you have a favorite early Christian heresy?
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B
Oh, I love them all, I'll tell you. But I'm really, I'm really kind of partial toward Marcion and Marcionite Christianity. Just as in terms of, it's not because it's personal what I believe or anything, but I think one reason it's particularly interesting is because many people continue to hold the views of Marcion, who was the first person who by name was declared a heretic. And many people, without knowing a thing about him or knowing a thing about his views, actually have views very similar. Christians like Con, very committed, conservative Christians, have views that are very similar to his in ways. And so that that's one reason I find him particularly fascinating.
- [19:29]
A
And Martin's actually going to be the topic of next week's podcast, so everyone should definitely come back and hear about him because it's fantastic. I enjoyed researching as well.
- [19:37]
B
Yeah, you're gonna get a hint of that. And you know, everybody loves the Gnostics, but Gnostics are hard to understand. But I love talking about the Gnostics. And so, yeah, so we got a
- [19:46]
A
whole range of stuff now, as I said, that's eight lectures. The recording is going to be on November 8th and 9th. The regular price will be $79.95, but the early bird price is $59.95. And that early bird price is good as long as you purchase before October 26th. You can visit bart erman.com heresy that's spelled H E R E S Y for more details and to purchase
- [20:14]
B
so
- [20:15]
A
before our break, we looked at the main message of the Gospel of John and the kind of developed theology, the high Christology that it includes. And you mentioned also that Jesus, what Jesus says and how he behaves is quite different to the other synoptic gospels. So starting with what Jesus says, his like verbal messaging. He talks an awful lot about himself, which doesn't really happen so much in the other gospels. So could you talk a little bit about that?
- [20:44]
B
No. It's very interesting because, you know, a lot of conservative Christians, like I was when I was conservative Christian, we, we used to say, you know, did. Is what Jesus said about himself true? You know what he said about himself true. And you don't realize that. We didn't realize that when you read Matthew, Mark and Luke, he doesn't say much about himself. It's kind of striking how little he says about himself apart from saying that he's going to go to Jerusalem and be executed and be raised from the dead. He doesn't talk about his identity. When you get to John, that is what he talks about. He talks about his identity from beginning to end. And he makes divine claims about himself in John. He doesn't make these in Matthew, Mark and Luke. And so in John, for example, in the Gospel of John, Jesus will say things like he's talking to the Jew, his Jewish enemies, who in John are called the Jews. It's a little bit problematic, but the Jews are confronting him with things. And he's talking to them about the father of the Jews, Abraham, who lived, you know, 1800 years earlier. And, and he. And they said, well, how would you know about Abraham? You know, you're not even 50 years old. And Jesus said before Abraham was I am. And so that's, so he's claiming to have Pre existed Abraham 1800 years earlier. But he's also using God's name I am, which is what God calls himself in Exodus 3. And, and the, his opponents know exactly what he's saying. They take up stones to stone him to death. And then in John chapter, a couple of chapters later, John 10, he's telling, talking to him, he says, I and the Father are one. They pick up stones to stone him because he's blaspheming. And then when he's with his disciples four chapters later at the, at his, his, his farewell discourse, his final meal where he's having this long discourse, Philip says, lord, show us the Father. And Jesus says, if you've seen me, you have seen the Father. Wow. They don't take up stones to stone him, they're his followers. But these are really bold statements. And about divinity, he's claiming divinity. You don't get anything like that in the synoptics. You don't get these specific sayings certainly, but you don't have Jesus talking about himself as somehow being God.
- [23:02]
A
What kinds of things do the other synoptic gospels have Jesus saying? If it's not like a self identity proclamation, what's he talking about?
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B
Yeah, this is the other side of the coin. And it's equally important. In Mark, our first gospel, the first words of Jesus are in chapter one, verse 15. When he comes, he starts preaching and he says that the time has been fulfilled, the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe this good news. So you've got to. So it's an apocalyptic image that the day of judgment is coming and God is going to bring in a good kingdom and get rid of all this pain and suffering in this world so that God will rule the earth. But you need to be ready for it in God's side. And so you need to repent of your sins. And if you do, then you'll enter into this kingdom. Jesus never says anything like that in the Gospel of John. He doesn't talk about a coming kingdom of God. He doesn't talk about coming day of judgment that is soon to appear. He does not tell people to repent. He doesn't tell them to believe the good news. His message is that he's the one who's come down from heaven to reveal the truth. And if you believe that he's the one who's come down to heaven to reveal the truth. You have eternal life now. So there's not a future judgment, there's not apocalypse, there's not repentance. There's nothing like that in John. So it's a very different message.
- [24:26]
A
And if we've, we've looked at his, his words, how do his actions kind of feed into this Christology and this development of Jesus as an incarnate divine figure?
- [24:40]
B
Well, they fit in very well. And it. This is another really interesting contrast because in Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus. Jesus does a lot of miracles. They appear to be to show, you know, that he is powerful and has the power of God working through him. And they, in Matthew, Mark and Luke, he says that they are signs that the kingdom of God is near. Because this is what it's going to be like in the kingdom. Nobody will be sick. So he heals the sick. Now there won't be any demons, so he casts out demons. Now people won't die. He raises the dead. Now there'll be no natural disasters. He calms the storm now. And so he's showing what it's going to be like in the kingdom, in the kingdom that's coming. But when somebody wants him to do a miracle to demonstrate who he is, he refuses. And they want him show us a miracle to prove it. And he says, no, no sign, no miracle will be given to this generation. In Matthew, Mark and Luke, his great deeds are called miracles. The Greek word is dunamis. It's where we get dynamite from. They're like explosive, like oh my God kind of events. But ask him to do a sign to signify, to show who he is, he refuses. Flat out, flat out refuses. When you get to the Gospel of John, the great things he does are not called. They're not called dynamite, they're not called dunamoi. They're miracles. They're called signs. He refuses to do signs in Matthew, Mark and Luke to prove who he is. And that's all he does in John. His, his. He does seven. He does seven miracles in John. And they are all designed to show that what he says about himself is true. And so, for example, he says that in chapter five, he says, I am the bread of life, meaning I'm the one who can provide the sustenance you need for eternal life. And he proves it by multiplying the loaves of bread. He says, you know, he says, I am the light of the world. And he proves it by healing a man who's been born blind. He says, I am the resurrection and the life. And he proves it by raising somebody from the dead. So the saying, in other words, the sayings and the miracles are in the. They'll be in the same chapter. Like he'll say something, then prove it, you know, or, you know, he'll say something and prove it. And so they are proving that what he says about himself is true. And so that's, that's the opposite of Matthew Markeluk, where he refuses to do anything like that.
- [27:17]
A
So you said at the beginning that there were several things that the Gospel of John leaves out that we find in the synoptic Gospels, and this includes a few miracles. If John is so concerned with showing Jesus as God, why is he leaving out miraculous episodes like the birth from a virgin and the casting out of demons?
- [27:37]
B
Oh, well, you know, we don't know how much he knew, and we don't know. I. This is a dispute. We'll talk about this a little bit later. I'm not, I'm not. I don't think he knew Matthew, Mark, and Luke. But. So it's not that, like, he knew these stories and left them out. He may have known them. I mean, surely he knew hundreds of stories. He's not telling. All of these gospel writers, you know, these gospels do not take long to read out loud. Mark's gospel takes like two hours to read out loud. And Jesus, If Jesus lived 33 years, okay, you got two hours of material here out of his 33 years. And so all of them must know lots of other stories. And so the question then is, why do they include what they include? And in, in the case of the two you mentioned, the virgin birth and the casting out of demons, it wouldn't really make sense for him to have a virgin birth because he believes that Christ is God incarnate, that he's divine, not because God gets Mary pregnant. There's nothing like that in John. That is why he's the Son of God. In Luke, the angel tells Mary that because the Holy Spirit is going to make you pregnant, therefore he'll be called the Son of God, literally God's son. But in John, it's not like that. He's not. He's not the Son of God because of how he's born. He's God who's become a human being. So you don't have the, the virgin birth. You don't have. You don't have the demons casting out demons, which is very common in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, because the idea that there are forces of evil that God is going to destroy is an apocalyptic image that, you know, it's showing what's going to happen when the kingdom of God arrives. And the Gospel of John is not about when the kingdom of God arrives in John. It's not that like we're living in an evil age and God's going to destroy the powers of evil and then bring in a good age. It's not like a dual. It's not a dualism that you could put on like a chronological, like on a timeline. You have a horizontal timeline. You've got this age, the end of this age, the beginning of the next age. And this chronological dualism, this timeline. John has a dualism, but it's not an apocalyptic dualism. The dualism is not temporal. This age and the age to come, it's spatial. John has flipped the apocalyptic timeline on its axis so that now the dualism is spatial. It's down here and up above. So John doesn't talk about now and then, he talks about up there and down here. So Christ starts off up there, he comes down here, he goes back up there, so the people who are down here can go up there. And so it's all up and down in John as opposed to here, now and then. And so they're both dualistic, but in completely different ways.
- [30:19]
A
So do you think that there are any miraculous stories that the author of John doesn't include that are in the synoptics that could have helped illustrate his message, but the fact that they're left out suggests that he wasn't familiar with the synoptics or he just didn't know those particular stories?
- [30:38]
B
I don't think we know. I mean, my guess is that some. Someone like John, who's a very creative writer and a very thoughtful writer, could have used most anything to his own purposes by. By retelling it in a way. Because there are a lot of stories in John that are stories found in Matthew, Mark and Luke that, for example, you know, Jesus trial before Pilate. Okay, he has the trial before Pilate, so does. So do Matthew, Mark and Luke. But John retells it in a way that it shapes his story to his message. And I think he could have done that with anything. And if anybody doesn't quite understand what I mean, just read Mark's trial before Pilate, it's not very long. And then read John's trial before Pilate, which is long, and compare them and you'll find things that can't be reconciled between each other if you look at them closely. But also you can see how John is like what he's trying to emphasize here that he's added to the story. So I think he probably could have used other miracles. Why doesn't it use others? I don't know. But it is striking and often noted that in John's gospel there are seven miracles. There are seven miracles that happen and seven is the perfect number. John says at the end of his Gospel that Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples that are not written here, but these are written so that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ. And so once again, the miracles are to get you to believe as opposed to the Matthew, Mark and Luke where Jesus won't do miracles to get you to believe in him.
- [32:17]
A
Why is it that you think that John wasn't actually familiar with the Synoptics?
- [32:24]
B
When I was in graduate school, that was the consensus view. And it had been probably throughout the second half of the SEC. Of the 20th century, almost all gospel experts agreed that John was independent. The reasons were because it doesn't, it doesn't have most of the stories of Matthew, Mark and Luke, so it doesn't include those. Most of its stories are not found in Matthew, Mark and Luke. Like all these discourses that Jesus has in John, none of them are in Matthew, Mark and Luke. Some of the miracles are not in Matthew, Mark. So they don't have. So in terms of content, when it does have the same stories of Matthew, Mark and Luke, they're told so differently that they're making a different point. You don't have word for word agreements between Matthew, Mark and Luke. The reason we really are sure that Matthew copied Mark is because they have verbatim agreements word for word. And they. So somebody's copying somebody and you just don't have that with John. So that was the view. And that's been the view. It's been the view until about 10 or 15 years ago. Scholars, as happens within every field of the humanities, scholars have a consensus and somebody comes along, says yeah, no. And then the consensus goes the other way. And so there's a pendulum swinging back and forth. So the pendulum swinging the other way. And my, my colleague and very fine John scholar Hugo Mendez, thinks that, who's just published a book, thinks that John knew the synoptics. Our friend Mark Goodacre, who does not think there's a cue, does think that John used the synoptics and has written a book about it. And I'll say, by the way, Megan, I don't know if you're planning to mention this. Are you planning to mention this Mark Goodacre and I have an event coming up just in a couple of weeks. Are you going to be mentioning this?
- [34:11]
A
I wasn't going to, but we should mention it.
- [34:14]
B
I'll say what it is because it's like we're starting this thing on our, for the, you know, for our online courses thing for the paths and Biblical studies we're calling Face to Face on the Bible where two scholars get together to talk about something that is controversial and sometimes they'll disagree. It'll be friendly conversations. Not going to be debates or anything. We're just going to two guys, two women, two people sitting down and talking. And so we're start. We're going to have three of these on the Gospel of John and Mark Goodacre And I on October 26th are going to talk about Did John know the Synoptics? And he, he thinks, he thinks he's got really good evidence. They do. And I think the evidence is very thin. And so we're not going to debate about it, but we're going to both, you know, you know, we were very friendly with each other. We're going to, we're just going to talk about it and see, you know, so people can see both sides. And so. Yeah, but see, he, he find. Mark tends to find like little things and, you know, and kind of emphasize them. And I, I have a. I. My guess is I tend to have a kind of a higher standard bar. Higher bar for standard proof. Yeah.
- [35:24]
A
Yeah. And you, and you and Mark are talking on. I've got this information up here. Sunday, October 26th. 6th at 7pm and there's information in tickets at bart ehrman.com forward/facetoface. And I'm not hosting, but I'm going to be attending because that just. It sounds like so much fun.
- [35:43]
B
How do they spell face to face on this?
- [35:46]
A
F, A, C, E, T O F A, C, E. Okay.
- [35:50]
B
Yeah. Okay. Spell it out. Okay. Face to face. Right. Okay. Our internal memos are the numeral. Okay.
- [35:55]
A
Yeah.
- [35:55]
B
So, yeah, people should look it up because there are two others that are going to be happening on John on. Let me see. Hugo Mendez and AJ Levine are going to be talking about how much. Propaganda.
- [36:07]
A
Propaganda, yeah.
- [36:08]
B
And then I think it's Robin Faith
- [36:11]
A
Walsh and Paula Frederickson.
- [36:13]
B
And Paula Frederickson. You know, we talk about what. We're talking about something similar too.
- [36:17]
A
I don't have the topic on that, but I, I think it's about. Is it related to Greek literature?
- [36:23]
B
I don't know. It's gonna be people can look it up. I don't.
- [36:26]
A
We don't know. Yeah, go to the website and look it up.
- [36:28]
B
I'm so worried about having to talk to Mark Goodacre about something that he's a real expert. I can't think about anything else. Oh, my God.
- [36:35]
A
You're too busy worrying about Mark. Well, that is. That is about all we have time for for John today. So we're going to move on to this week's bonus segment, which is Outsmart Bard. And it's been a while since we've done an Outsmart Bard. So for people who are not familiar with it, we take three questions that have been sent in by a listener that are designed to stump Bart's knowledge. We're trying to test the limits of Bart Ehrman's knowledge on the he, not the Hebrew Bible, on the New Testament and early Christianity. So we have three questions, and we will see how many Bart can get. Right.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah. To Bart Ehrman's regret, he doesn't know these three questions yet. Okay,
- [37:18]
A
okay, three questions. Bart has not seen them. They were sent in. Unfortunately, some time ago, someone asked during New Insights into the New Testament how many audience Q and A questions we have as a backlog. And I have over 500 emails in my inbox. So if you've sent a question in or sent an Outsmart Bard email in, we will get to them. It. It might just take a little while, but I value them. I appreciate them. They're always fantastic questions. And the first one for this episode of Outsmart Bard, which gospel contains the most parables?
- [37:57]
B
Whoa, that's a good question. John has none. Mark has one chapter mainly devoted to them. It's going to be either Matthew or Luke and. Wow. I'm guessing Luke.
- [38:16]
A
Luke is correct. The. The answer provided is 26 parables in the Gospel of Luke.
- [38:21]
B
I would not. Glad he didn't ask or she didn't ask the number. I had no idea. Wow.
- [38:27]
A
I think asking you to count them would be a little unfair.
- [38:29]
B
But, you know, Luke has things like the Good Samaritan and the. The. And the Prodigal Son and has these really quite amazing parables and the Rich man and Lazarus and stuff. So. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, good.
- [38:41]
A
All right. Question two. Which quest? Which question? Which chapter contains three parables about loss? And which chapters are they in? They're all in Luke.
- [38:53]
B
Yeah, it's Luke. It's either. Let me see. It's either chapter 15 or chapter 16. It's 16, I think.
- [39:04]
A
15.
- [39:04]
B
15.
- [39:06]
A
For your brother's point, can you tell me? The three parables.
- [39:10]
B
So it's the woman who's lost a coin, the shepherd who's lost a sheep, and the. Is it the. Is it the Prodigal Son?
- [39:22]
A
It is.
- [39:23]
B
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I guess I should know what chapter the prodigal son is in, right? I'm a New Testament scholar. I don't know what chapter the Prodigal son is. Oh, my God. Go back to school there.
- [39:32]
A
I don't think they'll make you give your card in.
- [39:34]
B
Okay.
- [39:35]
A
Okay, question three. Three parables are traditionally named the Wise and foolish. Blank. Which parables are they?
- [39:44]
B
I ain't gonna get this one. Let me see. The Wise and Foolish. All I can think of are the. I don't know. They have different types. The bridesmaids who are waiting. The wise. You know, the ones who run out of oil. There are three that are called the wise and foolish. Well, I will remember them as soon as you tell them to me.
- [40:06]
A
Wise and foolish builders. Which is apparently Matthew 7:24 to 27.
- [40:11]
B
Oh, okay.
- [40:14]
A
Wise and foolish servants in Luke 6. Also Matthew and Luke.
- [40:19]
B
Okay.
- [40:20]
A
Oh, no, I'm getting these. Sorry, I'm not reading my notes correctly. Wise and foolish Builders is in Matthew and Luke. The Wise and foolish servants. Also Matthew and Luke. And then. Yes, the bridesmaids in Matthew.
- [40:31]
B
Yeah, I. You know, I was. I guess I'm not familiar with them, Those other pair about the Wise and Foolish builder. I guess I'm not used to that being called the Wise and Foolish Builders or the other. But. Okay. Yeah, fine.
- [40:46]
A
Well, those are all of them. I think you did pretty well, actually. That was like one and a half, kind of.
- [40:51]
B
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, again, if I was playing baseball in the major Leagues, I'd be an all star. As it is, I'm kind of like. Kind of.
- [41:00]
A
I think using. Using baseball standards to. To judge your success is a reasonable thing to be doing.
- [41:05]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [41:06]
A
Good.
- [41:06]
B
Good.
- [41:07]
A
All right. Well, thank you very much. I can't remember who sent those in. I never write your names down, but thank you for sending them in. If you do have questions for Outsmart Bart, you can submit them on the website. Now, Bart, before we finish for the week, could you please remind us what we spoke about today?
- [41:22]
B
We're talking about the Gospel of John and how and why it's so different from Matthew, Mark and Luke, the Gospels that are called the Synoptic Gospels. John has different contents. It doesn't have most of the stories that are found in Matthew, Mark and Luke. And it has a bunch of stories not found in Matthew, Mark and Luke. And it has sayings differently and doesn't have their sayings. It does have its own sayings. And what it does talk about, it emphasizes very different things. And so John stands out. And it's often talked about, as the maverick Gospel sometimes called that, because it does stand out. And so, and the question is, you know, not just no, how is it different, but but, you know, why is it different? And it's trying to portray, it's giving a very different portrayal of Jesus than the others.
- [42:09]
A
Audience, thank you all for listening. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, please subscribe to the podcast to make sure you don't miss future episodes. Remember that you can use the code MJ podcast for a discount on all of Bart's courses over at www.bartehrman.com, including early bird pricing for Barth's new course on Heresies Earliest Christian Heresies. You can find information on that@bart ehrman.com H E R E S Y Misquoting Jesus will be back next Week Bart, what are we talking about next time?
- [42:40]
B
Well, we're talking about Marcion, the 2nd century teacher and philosopher within Christianity who had distinctive views about Christ and the Bible and Paul and who ended up being declared an arch heretic.
- [42:59]
A
Join us next time. Thank you all and goodbye. This has been an episode of Misquoting Jesus with Bart Ehrman. We'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday, so please be sure to subscribe to our show for free on your favorite podcast listening app or on Bart Ehrman's YouTube channel so you don't miss out. From Bart Ehrman and myself, Megan Lewis. Thank you for joining us.