← Misquoting Jesus with Bart Ehrman
Loading summary
Transcript53 lines
- [00:00]
A
Hey guys, if you're looking for the perfect Mother's Day gift, listen up. Boldbelly ships America's most legendary foods from iconic restaurants and chefs nationwide. So treat mom to Ina Garten's coconut cupcakes, Joe's stone Crab dinner kits from Miami or a New York bagel brunch. You can even send Magnolia Bakery's famous banana pudding or classic lottery macarons make Mother's Day unforgettable with flavors she loves delivered anywhere in the country. Visit goldbelly.com and use promo code MOM for 20% off your first order.
- [00:31]
B
Jesus most famous commandment might be to love thy neighbor, but what exactly does love mean and how do you love your neighbor? Today, Dr. Bart Ehrman joins me to talk about the different meanings of love in the New Testament and how that informs our understanding of Jesus teachings. Welcome to Misquoting Jesus with Bart Ehrman, the only show where a six time New York Times best selling author and world renowned Bible scholar uncovers the many fascinating little known facts about the New Testament, the historical Jesus and the rise of Christianity. I'm your host, Megan Lewis. Let's begin. Our inaugural New Insights into the Hebrew Bible conference is happening March 20th through the 22nd and I am thrilled to be one of the presenters. My talk is titled before in the the Creation Myths that Shaped Genesis and it explores the striking parallels between Genesis and ancient Mesopotamian creation stories, showing how those earlier myths helped to shape the biblical account. To celebrate, we're hosting a special live Meet Megan AMA on Zoom exclusively for those of you who grab an NIHB pass between now and March 20th and use the coupon code Meganbonus at checkout. You'll hear from Dan McLellan, Joel Baden and more. Just head to bartiman.com hbconference on the checkout page, enter Megan Bonus. That's M E G A N B O N U s to unlock a special discount and the instructions for the ama which will take place in early April. I'd love to hang out, answer your questions and connect with you. So grab your pass, use the code and I'll see you there. Welcome back everybody to Miss Quoting Jesus, where today we're discussing the meaning of love in the New Testament. We've also got our bonus segment Bart's Soapbox at the end where Bart gets on his metaphorical soapbox about an issue he feels strongly about. But before all of that, how are you this week?
- [02:38]
C
Well, you know, I'm in a preaching mood, so let's, let's go for the Soapbox right off the bat.
- [02:42]
B
All right, all right. I'm down.
- [02:44]
C
Yeah, no, I'm doing well. I'm doing well. You know, I. When I retired, I. It, man, it took me. Took me a few weeks, it took me more. It took a while before I was ready to actually start plunging back into doing serious work. I think I had kind of long term burnout, and I'm not recovering from that fully, but I started doing some more detailed reading of stuff and started realizing, oh, I like this. And so, like, so I'm feeling better about, like, how things are going right now. So. Yeah. Yeah. How are you doing? Yeah, good.
- [03:13]
B
I have bits of blue food coloring on my fingers from dyeing Epsom salts for an archaeology class, which is not a sentence I ever thought I'd say. We're looking at the layering in archaeological digs, and the easiest way for me to show that to small children is with layers of colored salt. Or it's supposed to be sand, but coloring salt is a hell of a lot easier. So I've been spending my morning dyeing bags of salt. It's been very interesting.
- [03:41]
C
Well, you know, if this doesn't work, you've got a career in geology.
- [03:44]
B
Exactly, exactly. I'll just. I'll just switch. It'll be fine.
- [03:47]
C
Okay.
- [03:48]
B
All right. Before we get into. Love, our icebreaker this week, how do you deal with negative reviews or critiques?
- [03:57]
C
Oh, yeah. Well, especially when it comes to, like, reviews of my books, I'd say I don't deal with them well. I think, like, like every author, they could.
- [04:12]
B
Tea?
- [04:15]
C
No, you know, look, I don't, you know, I don't do anything about them, but I get. I get irritated. And like everyone else who gets a negative review, you start grumbling about, but the person didn't actually read the book. And. Which is often the case, by the way, but not just about my books. I mean, just generally. Or they. They say I said something I didn't say, or they, they object to something, or they like, you know. And so basically you think, well, they're clueless. Why. Why they asked them to write a review. And then. So. But you know, because actually it doesn't. It's not like. Like when you're in graduate school where you have a professor who might critique your work so that you could do better next time you've written the book, it's done.
- [05:02]
B
And so go back and fix things or change things.
- [05:04]
C
You can't improve it now. So I think that that's one reason. I think a lot of Scholars don't even read the reviews. And I actually don't seek out reviews of my work. Some people do, but I, I don't seek it out, but it'll be called to my attention if there's a, if there's a very damning review of my thing in the Wall Street Journal. So somebody will tell me, I say, oh, God, why'd they get him? Yeah.
- [05:30]
B
So that sounds uncomfortable and unpleasant, especially if you can't go back and fix things. Like constructive criticism is one thing.
- [05:39]
C
Yeah.
- [05:40]
B
And will help you grow. And negative reviews are another thing entirely.
- [05:44]
C
Well, the thing is, scholars are very territorial and if you impede on somebody else's turf, they get very upset. And a lot of times it's not just me again, but just kind of generally. A lot of times somebody who doesn't, who hasn't written a book on this but considers themselves an expert on it, you know, will just attack. Go on the attack. And you, you kind of feel like saying, well, no, okay, good. Well, you know, you really should write that book then, because, you know, that's your view. And so, but people do. Yeah. I mean, kind of the smaller the world, the more, the, the greater the politics. Like. And so, like, if you're in a small discipline, you know, it's, it's not, you know, it's easy to, even though, but in the big disciplines, obviously people who write right. On biology or something, you know, they get very, very harsh critiques from people who disagree with them.
- [06:36]
B
All right, on to the discussion of today, which is love. I have known Christians who claim that the idea of love was introduced to the ancient world by Christianity.
- [06:47]
C
Is that true? Well, it's true. You've heard it. It's true that people say it. It is. I hear it. And you know, I, I, I get it. I mean, they, you know, they, they understand Christianity a Christ. There's, there, there's a lot going beneath, on, beneath that statement. Often, not every time, probably. I think a lot of people just don't know any better. They haven't, they haven't read Aristotle, you know, how would they know, you know, or they haven't read, you know, they haven't read ancient moral philosophy. There sometimes can be a bit of anti Judaism in it when people say that because they assume that the Old Testament God was a God of wrath, but the God of Jesus was the God of love. And so Jesus introduced love into the Christian tradition. That's wrong on every count. When people tell me that the Old Testament's the God of wrath and New Testament is the God of love. I usually ask them, have you read the book of Revelation lately? It's all about wrath. That one's in the New Testament. And the commandments to love are in the Old Testament. Love is all over the place in the Old Testament. So I think it's just dead wrong. Love was a frequent topic of discussion in every, in every surviving, you know, every kind of source from the ancient world.
- [08:11]
B
How did ancient Greeks and Romans think about and talk about the ethics of love?
- [08:16]
C
So in this book I've got coming out, love thy Stranger. I have, I spent a lot of time talking about this kind of issue. What did ancient people mean by love? How did they understand it? How did it work in Greek circles, Roman circles, Jewish circles? How did Jesus have a different thing? And so as I was saying, it's a bit crazy to say that Greeks and Romans weren't concerned about love. You have entire treatises devoted to it by important philosophers, including Aristotle and before him Plato. And so it is a big deal. Love. I would say, like, if you have to generalize, which sounds like I need to, because I only about 20 seconds to do this. But if you had to generalize, you'd say, say that for most people in the ancient world, love was a kind of. Was a kind of, was an emotion that led to beneficial actions towards another. And so something like that.
- [09:15]
B
Did ancient Jews have a similar understanding or was there a difference?
- [09:21]
C
There were. Well, there are similarities and differences, especially when you get down a little bit more into the weeds. Haven't gotten into the weeds at all. But once you get down a little bit, of course, Jews felt the same thing, that love. Love was an emotion that should have positive reaction, facts on how you behave toward, toward other people. But love wasn't just an emotion in probably in any circle. But in Judaism, for example, In Deuteronomy chapter 6, a commandment that is still recited by Jews today, every day there are Jews who recite the Shema, The Deuteronomy chapter 6, you should love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and strength. Now, in that context, love doesn't actually mean like an emotion. And it can't mean an emotion because you cannot command somebody to love something. You can command how they behave, but you can't command their emotions. You know, and so, I mean, you can, but it's not going to get you anywhere because you can't get. And so it actually means something else there. In that case, it sort of means something like give God his due, you know, worship him. And devote your life to him. But it doesn't mean like have a gooey feeling towards him. And you get that as well in the Hebrew Bible. Throughout the Hebrew Bible, we're talking about human love. There's different kinds of human love, but most of them do involve some kind of emotion.
- [10:47]
B
Now love, when we're just talking about the emotion, can have a lot of different meanings today. You can love your spouse and love your grandmother, but it means something very different. You can love your job or a book or tennis or cooking, but again, all of these are very different to being in, in love with someone. Did the inhabitants of the ancient world have a similar range of meaning when they talked about the emotional side?
- [11:10]
C
Yes, they did. They had different, they had different, you know, they, they, they, they knew all of that and they agreed with all of that. They like, like in English they have different words that sometimes they would use a. Synonyms, synonyms for love in some contexts. But you know, in English we say love and like and desire and have passion for and you, you various things you can use that have different nuances but could be translated as love. And the ancient languages also had different words that could, that. But they certainly understood that there are different nuances and different kinds of love depending on the person to whom it's being directed.
- [11:54]
B
We're going to take a very brief break. I have some announcements to make and then we are going to get back into the meaning of love, looking specifically at Greek words that are rendered in English as love. All right, this is your final reminder everybody. This is your absolute last chance to join us for on our inaugural New Insights into the Hebrew Bible Conference. We're kicking things off in just a couple of days. The attendee mixer is this Thursday, March 19th. On Friday, March 20th, Dan McLellan delivers the keynote and then more than 10 featured presentations are happening on Saturday and Sunday. But what are you most excited about when it comes to this conference?
- [12:34]
C
Well, this is our first time doing this one. We've done new insights into the New Testament for three years now and it's been a huge success. It's been great, really great. And this is going to be equally great. We rounded up 10 of the top scholars in the world on, on various aspects of the book of Genesis, one of the most famous books of the Hebrew Bible, of the entire Bible, one of the most read books of the entire Bible. And scholarship has a lot to say about it. These are top level scholars who are all going to be talking about different aspects of it and with, with insights of that scholars about who, you know, read this thing in Hebrew and have studied it for decades and they're based on centuries of scholarship that are often things that people wouldn't have thought of or wouldn't know and but were presented to on, on in terms that people can understand who are not, who are not experts. So I, I'm looking forward to this a lot. This is going to be great.
- [13:32]
B
It's going to be fantastic. And I'd like also to remind everyone that I'm going to be hosting a live Meet Megan AMA on Zoom for anyone who purchases an nihb pass before March 20th. Make sure you use the code Megan Bonus at the checkout where you will hang out, do a meet and greet, talk about sources for Genesis myths, talk about the podcast behind the scenes stuffs. However many glasses I have, really whatever you want to ask me about. But to get access you have to buy a ticket@bartlehrman.com hbconference and use the coupon code Megan Bonus at checkout. When you're on the checkout page, look for the little have a coupon link, grab that, put in Megan Bonus and it will unlock the instructions for the meetup. So grab your pass and use the code and I will see you both at the conference because I'm presenting and then at the AMA afterwards. So I think it's going to be fun. I'm going to be great. Pairs of glasses I have, I think
- [14:26]
C
I, I hope they give you some real zingers. Are they going to do a Megan thing?
- [14:32]
B
Oh, gosh, that wouldn't be hard. All right, announcements over. Back to our episode for this week. Were there different Greek words that are translated into English as the word love?
- [14:48]
C
Yeah. You know, this creates a huge problem because the answer is yes, there are a number of Greek words that, they often have different nuances, but there's not a good translation for them except for the word love. And so if you don't know the Greek word, you don't know the different nuance. And so this is a tricky business. But it's true. It's a problem with translation generally. You know, when you, this is why, this is why scholars have to learn these ancient languages because you don't understand the nuance of a, of a text. I, I don't think I mentioned this last time we, I mentioned Aristotle's Nicomachean ethics. He has a, he has extensive discussions of love in the Nicomachean ethics, especially friendship. Love Within a Friendship has two entire books devoted to it. But the Nicomachean ethics are difficult to read in English. The reason it's difficult, it's not. Not difficult for a reason, you might think. In other words, it's not like highly complicated philosophy, particularly. But when I was trying to read it, I realized I don't know what the Greek word that he's using here is, and it makes a big difference. And I looked at the Greek, I said, oh, yeah, that's much easier. Now I know what it means. And so it's a problem. So there are. There are several words in Greek that mean that can be and are translated as love that are used in Greek and Greek moral philosophy, and in Christian circles as well.
- [16:17]
B
Which of these words are used in the New Testament?
- [16:20]
C
Okay, so there are. They're basically. They're basically four words that typically get translated as love, either as a verb or noun in regular Old Greek. Okay. And so the. The word. Well, I'll just say what these words are. So one of them is eros, where we get erotic from. And it doesn't necessarily mean sexual love, but it can mean that it means a kind of love that is passion. You know, like you could be passionate about a book you're reading or passionate about, you know, playing golf or something. Things you're passionate about. That would be eros. There's another word, philia, which is the word we get Philadelphia, from the city of brotherly love. And philia isn't about a passion you have for some. Something. It's really like in an interpersonal relationship. It's more about you really liking somebody. Like you connecting with them. You have good chemistry with them. You're kind of buddies with them, you're friends with them. It's kind of more like a friend friendly love, but where you really connect with each other. That's philia. So you have eros. You got Philia, you've got. You've got a verb in Greek. Stergo. Doesn't. Doesn't have a noun for some reason, but it has a verb, stero, which is another. It's a. It's another word for love. It tends to do more with kind of affection between, say, like between parents and their children. You know, it's kind of. It can be kind of that kind of connection you have with someone. Yeah, so just say. It's often in family context, but in other contexts as well. So those are the three main words in Greek. There's a fourth verb in Greek, agapa, which is also a verb for love. And it means something like to have affection for somebody, to be Affectionate for somebody. And so those are the. Those are the four words you get widely in. Widely in Greek. And they are sometimes differentiated by Greek philosophers who say, well, eros is this and philia is this. And they're very different. And they are in these Greek philosophers. So you ask which words are in the New Testament, and only two of them. Eros does not occur in the New Testament. Eros, the one for kind of passionate love. And stergo, the verb, which is like familial love, doesn't occur there. So the two words that occur in the New Testament are philia and agapao, or the Greek or the noun verb agape. It's spelled A G, A P, E, but it does not mean agape. It does not say. It doesn't sound like a gape. It's agape and that. That's the principal word, agape, within Christian circles.
- [18:55]
B
And does Jesus use both of these words or are they used by other speakers in different contexts?
- [19:01]
C
So the problem is that we have the New Testament in Greek and Jesus spoke in Aramaic. And so it's a little bit hard to know how the Greek translators of his sayings dealt with his use of different Aramaic words, which was a kind of a comparable range to what you get in Hebrew. And in the Old Hebrew Bible, there are two main words that get translated into English as love, usually. So there's that complication. But within the Greek New Testament, Jesus does use both words. He principally uses the agape word agapao. Sometimes it leads to translational and interpretive confusion. There's a famous instance of this, and it's a passage where you wouldn't realize that there's a problem by reading it in English. It's in John, chapter 21. Jesus has been raised from the dead. He's talking to Peter, his closest disciple. And he asked Peter, do you love me? And Peter says, yes, Lord, I love you. Jesus has asked, do you agape me? And Peter's replied, yes, I philia you. So Jesus asks again, do you agape me? Do you love me? Peter replies, yes, Lord, I love you. But again, Jesus says, agape, Jesus. Peter says, philia. And so it looks like Jesus is fishing for something here. The third time he asked him, do you love me? Peter says, yes, I love you. So in English, you'd have love all six times, right? Do you love. Yes, I love you. And so it isn't quite clear why he keeps repeating it. But in Greek, the third time he asked it, Jesus changes to philia, do you philia? Yes, I Philia. Okay, feed my sheep. And so the question is, is there a different nuance between the agape and the philia? And what we learned in graduate school was like then was the standard wisdom is that the words were synonyms. They actually did not matter which word they were using. It meant the same thing. And the reason you have three requests isn't because Jesus is fishing for something. It's because Peter denied him three times, and now he can confess his love for him three times. Okay, well, so that might be true, but Jesus does change. It does change the word. And so why would that be? And so the way other interpreters have interpreted that might be more correct is Jesus is saying, would you do anything for me? And Peter says, yes, I really like you. Would you do anything for me? Yes, I like you. Peter, would you do. Do you really like me? Yes, I like you. Okay, good enough. So this hinges, though, on something we haven't really talked about yet, but I guess we will now, is the difference between agape and philia in the New Testament itself.
- [21:54]
B
So, Bart, what is the difference between agape and philia in the New Testament?
- [21:59]
C
Okay, I'm glad you asked me that. I thought you would. I thought that would be. I wasn't expecting it. Okay, so here's the deal. Philia means pretty much in the New Testament. What it means generally, it's a word for love that can refer to lots of different kinds of love. Agape seems to take on a distinctive meaning in Christian writings. The noun agape I may have mentioned does not occur in the Greek language outside of Judaism and Christianity. It's not a word found in Plato, Aristotle, in anybody. It's not found. You can't find it in a Greek lexicon being used. The noun agape, it first occurred, occurs in the Septuagint in the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, where it translates one of the Hebrew words, ahav, as agape. And there it kind of means what it means in. In general circles, Greek circles, you know, where the idea of agapao is affection for. When you come to the New Testament, agape takes on a different meaning. It clearly does not. It does not refer to an emotion. Unlike other Greek words for love, it is definitely not an emotion. It is how you behave towards somebody, whatever you feel towards them or whatever you think towards them. Agape has to do with doing something for the good of another, even at a cost to the self. So agape is being concerned about the needs of another. That makes it virtually a synonym of altruism. But it Comes in a verbal form and as a, as a noun form, you know, so you have love for somebody. You really wouldn't say I have altruism for somebody, but it does mean that. So, so agape, by far the most common word for love in the New Testament and the verb they refer to this kind of self giving love that is interested in somebody else's needs rather than one's own.
- [24:04]
B
Now Jesus seems to emphasize this form of love as more important than anything else. Do you see a similar emphasis in other Jewish teachers from the same time period? Or is this particular to Jesus?
- [24:16]
C
There were other rabbis who absolutely would have said that loving God above all else is the most important thing and loving your neighbor as yourself is the most important thing. They're both like, they're the two important things. Within Israelite tradition. Of course you get the commandment, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. And this is, this is central to Jewish thinking and goes all the way back to the Torah. But when you read that in the Torah, love your neighbors as yourself, Leviticus 19:18, it is referring to your fellow Israelite. You're to love your fellow Israelite, but it includes strangers among the Israelites like some of you don't know. But they're an Israelite, you're supposed to treat them well. And not just somebody who's born into Israel, but anybody who immigrates into Israel and has settled among the Israelites and is adopting Israelite ways. Even a foreigner, you're supposed to love in this way. So immigrants and native Israelites. Yes, but, but this does not apply throughout the Hebrew Bible to those who are outside of Israel. So this, this commandment occurs in Leviticus. In the next book, the Book of Numbers, the Israelites go into, start, start conquering the promised land. And they're not supposed to love the Midianites and the Moabites, they're supposed to destroy them. And so, so the idea is that this is, it is within the community that you're to love others. But within Judaism, it's different from the Greek and Roman worlds because now it's not just your family and friends or the people who like live in your close knit community. It's like you love any Israelite and you would never have a Greek author saying, love every Greek, you know, love everybody who speaks Greek or Romans. Yeah, you should love every Roman. No, of course not. But you do get that in Judaism and then you get that pushed to an extreme by Jesus.
- [26:21]
B
So if he's pushing the extreme, pushing a statement from the Book of Leviticus to an extreme. Is he extending it to all of humanity or is he restricting it in some way? What's happening there?
- [26:35]
A
The GLP1 pill you've been waiting for is now on row. Yep, it's finally here with the same clinically proven ingredient now in a pill. And now on Roe. It's the first FDA approved GLP1 pill for weight loss at the lowest price available. That's one daily GLP1 pill for big results now on Roe, go to Roe co. Listen to see if you qualify RX only go to Roe co safety for serious side effects and boxed warning associated with GLP1s.
- [27:05]
C
It appears to be non restricted. And I think this is one of Jesus really radical teachings. Jesus really did say, I think love your enemies. And I think he meant, didn't mean feel good about your enemies or to like them or to have any kind of emotion toward them. It meant do you know. And it doesn't mean like, you know, help the enemy destroy us, but it means work in their best interests, even if they're your enemies. And so this gets encapsulated in a number of Jesus teachings in the gospels. The best known, the most famous one, is the parable of the Good Samaritan. The Samaritan is a man who sees this Jewish man who's been beaten half to death by the side of the road, apparently unconscious, who has been bypassed by two Jewish leaders, a priest and a Levite, and who don't help him, don't even go over to see if he's okay. He looks like he's dead. They just pass him by. The Samaritan comes by and sees him and he goes over and he binds his wounds and he takes him to an inn. He pays for his upkeep, he takes care of him. And Jesus says, this is how you are supposed to love your neighbor. The deal is that the Samaritans were the hated enemies of Jews and for a number of historical and cultural reasons, their enemies. But the enemy is taking care of the enemy. This is what it means to love your neighbor, says Jesus. So he. And he means that for, for his followers. That's what, that's how they're supposed to behave. To love everyone who's in need, regardless of who they, who they are.
- [28:53]
B
So when he says love your neighbor, he's not talking about have a warm fuzzy feeling towards someone. He's talking about how you are supposed to treat people.
- [29:02]
C
Yeah, and he's not talking about just, you know, the, the guy next door, the woman across the street, you know, he's not your literal neighbor. He. Every other human being is your neighbor and you should treat them well. And, you know, so that gets translated into these two other topics that I deal with, my book, charitable giving and forgiveness. You treat people well, even if they mistreat you. As long as they're in need, you try to help them out. That's, that's Jesus teaching. It's pretty radical. I mean, it's so radical that most Christians today don't follow it. I mean, they, you know, most people don't follow it. Understandably, I don't follow it. I mean, I try to with. But I mean, it's, it's a radical teaching and it, but I think it really is what Jesus meant.
- [29:49]
B
That is all we have for today's interview. But is there anything that I didn't cover that you would like to make sure people know before we move on?
- [29:57]
C
Well, I, I'll just say that I think this is really, is the core of Jesus teachings, that, that when he, when he explains who it is that's going to be brought into the kingdom of God In Matthew, chapter 25, it isn't. It isn't just Jews. It isn't people who believe in him. It's people who have done good things for those in need, who fed the hungry, given something to drink to the thirsty, who have, who clothed the naked, who have visited the lonely. These are the people who will get into God's kingdom. And so Jesus teaching is all about the kingdom of God is coming soon. You need to get on God's right side, and here's how he tells you to do it. It's to live this way. And so if people want to be followers of Jesus, I'm an agnostic atheist myself, but if people want to be followers of Jesus, they should take this seriously. It doesn't matter if these people are your family, friends, or neighbor, literal neighbors. It doesn't matter if they belong to your, your country or your ethnicity or your race or anything else. It matters if they're in need. And Jesus says that's whom you're supposed to live. So if you're a follower of Jesus, I think that's what you're supposed to do. And even those of us who aren't think, yeah, you know, it's a pretty good idea to do that.
- [31:16]
B
But thank you so much. We're going to be moving on to this week's bonus segment, which is Bart's Soapbox. But what are you feeling strongly about this week?
- [31:27]
C
Right. Well, you know, So I think last time, in the last episode, we talked about whether people get surprised. Like, I've written this book, which, you know, of course I'm not urging people to become Christian, but I am pointing out the good things that came into the world because of Christianity. And I, you know, I've thought a lot about how I get a negative reaction about that from some of my friends who are very hardcore atheists or strong agnostics. I also, as I said, I'm an agnostic and an atheist as well. But I do know a lot of people who used to be Christian who have left Christianity, who see nothing good in Christianity, that it's all bad. And even in my book, I talk, this forthcoming book, I do talk about, yes, there are bad sides to Christianity. I mean, Christian history is, is not always glowing. You get the, you get anti Judaism very early. That leads to horrible pogroms and slaughters in the Middle Ages that ultimately lead up to the Holocaust. You get, you get Crusades and all that has to say about Islamophobia. You get inquisitions, which people who don't believe the right things are tortured to death. You get, you know, you get the support of slavery, biblical justification for slavery in the South. You have the oppression of women. You get, you get, you get all sorts of things that are really, really dark from Christianity. And boy do I get that. But it is crazy to pretend that everything is bad, just as it's crazy if you're a gung ho conservative evangelical Christian to think that everything about Christianity is good. It's not completely good, it's not completely bad. And it just kind of irritates me that people don't see this, you know, that you can't see there's anything good in Christianity. My God, yes, of course there are good things in Christianity. And so anyway, my book is trying to show that there are good side, especially the sides that I point out. The kind of institutional changes have made a huge difference in society. And I just think that it's part of the problem I have that people can't see both sides of an issue. Everything's got to be one thing or the other. And it's driving our society apart right now, this kind of division that's happening everywhere along all sorts of lines and within religion. But my view is that even though I'm not a Christian, in addition to the many, many dark things, there are good sides of Christianity. And it, I really think that people ought to be opened up to the good as well as to the bad and to the bad as well as the good.
- [33:58]
B
Thank you, Bart. Now, before we finish for the week, could you remind us what we spoke about today?
- [34:04]
C
Well, you know, we're talking about the topic of love. It's rather a big topic to try to do in 35 minutes or whatever we spent on it. But it, but it's a topic main one of my main topics in my book, Love Thy Stranger and kind of reflecting on how love in the Christian tradition, beginning with Jesus, was different in ways from the way it was manifest otherwise in the Greek and Roman world and at the world at large. And it's important to see what the differences are and to appreciate appreciate these differences in order to evaluate them. It's not that Jesus invented love, but but there is a different aspect to it that he talks about that ends up making a big difference in our world.
- [34:44]
B
Audience, thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed the show. If you did, please subscribe to the podcast to make sure you don't miss future episodes. Remember that you can use the code mjpodcast for a discount on all of Bart's courses over at www.bartehrman.com. thank you all and goodbye. This has been an episode of Misquoting Jeanne Jesus with Bart Ehrman. We'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday, so please be sure to subscribe to our show for free on your favorite podcast listening app or on Bart Ehrman's YouTube channel so you don't miss out. From Bart Ehrman and myself, Megan Lewis. Thank you for joining us.