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Nephilim Death Squad
134: Mormon Rebuttal w/ The Artificial Dissemination Podcast
01:55:07
Welcome back to Nephilim Death Squad! In this episode, Raven (David Lee Corbo) and Top Lobsta sit down with Not Nice Guy and Megan from the Artificial Dissemination HD podcast to dive deep into Mormonism. From Joseph Smith’s First Vision to the...
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- [00:00]
David Lee Corbo
Geico's motorcycle expertise gives me the coverage I need. Like 24. Seven claims.
- [00:05]
Not Nice Guy
I'm on cloud nine. Clouds are wholly unable to support the.
- [00:09]
Megan
Weight of an adult human.
- [00:10]
David Lee Corbo
What's happening?
- [00:10]
Not Nice Guy
Furthermore, clouds are not numbered.
- [00:11]
Megan
Even if you procured a jetpack and.
- [00:12]
Not Nice Guy
Searched, you'd find no cloud numbered nine.
- [00:14]
Megan
However, at that altitude, you'd likely befriend a flock of migrating snow geese. Geese who'd encourage you to leave your 24.7geico motorcycle claims insurance behind as they would take you in and even share their dinner of crickets and clovers with you.
- [00:23]
Not Nice Guy
GEICO assumes no liability for any indigestion that may occur from a clover cricket dinner. GEICO expertise for your motorcycle.
- [00:32]
Megan
Productions.
- [00:35]
David Lee Corbo
We are being hypnotized by people like this.
- [00:41]
Top Lobster
News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely.
- [01:00]
Not Nice Guy
Oh yeah, dude, there's some Nephilim.
- [01:03]
David Lee Corbo
It's like we all know what's going down, but no one's saying what happens to the home of the Braves and everybody's just walking around. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get into today's guest, I would like to remind all of the live viewers that this is a 30 minute preview only. Sometime around the 30 minute mark we're going to be going live exclusively to patreon.com Nephilim Death Squad where you can continue with watching along, enjoying an ad free viewing experience, talking in the chat and gaining access to the episodes before the general public does. And you could do it all for free. So if you like the conversation and are quite upset when that 30 minute mark hits and we go away, fret not, you can follow us there and you can do it for free. Joining us today is not Nice Guy and Megan of the Artificial Dissemination HD podcast. Did I get that right? Yeah, yeah, I believe I got it right. Guys. If for the audience who might not be familiar with you, why don't you tell them a little bit about where they can find your work and what it is that you focus on. Because I know you're here, by the way, to make Joseph Smith proud.
- [02:32]
Not Nice Guy
I feel like the HD part of his podcast, like he put hd. It's like a maybe as a slight to us because like my video quality isn't so great.
- [02:40]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, That's Artificial Dissemination HD. This is Nephilim Death Squad. Grainy standard definition CRT TV 240p. Yeah, it's not good. Guys, please. But let. Let everybody know where they can find your work.
- [02:55]
Top Lobster
Yeah. So I'm. What happened? Oh yeah. So where did everyone go?
- [03:01]
David Lee Corbo
And it's over. Sorry guys, it's been talk. But yeah.
- [03:04]
Top Lobster
So Artificial Dissemination HD AKA ADHD podcast on Rumble. So far it's the only place I really post because I. I named the J a lot so.
- [03:13]
David Lee Corbo
Ah yes, yes. I don't problematic for other platforms but.
- [03:16]
Top Lobster
I got a Sunday show there called Latter Day Sunday. We talk about Mormon shit Wednesdays I do another show called Hazardous Discourse which like current events, politics, stuff like that. I got more down the pipeline so like stay tuned for that. You can also find me on on X where I just pretty much shit post and call people Jews and fags all the time.
- [03:33]
David Lee Corbo
Very nice.
- [03:34]
Top Lobster
Not Nice guy.
- [03:35]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah, definitely are people. Yeah. I met you at for the first time at Bohemian Grove and it was like after. I think you came up to me after like the second day and I was tired. My wife was like. Like we were about to pack in the car and I tried to talk to you for a few minutes but I was like I gotta go because I have these people waiting on me. So I'm glad that we have this like well, you know, this follow up second chance. Yeah, the follow up conversation. And we're gonna chill. We're gonna talk about why Heidi Love is wrong about the Mormons.
- [04:04]
Top Lobster
That's right.
- [04:05]
Not Nice Guy
How dare she?
- [04:06]
David Lee Corbo
How dare, dare she.
- [04:07]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah. And we'll get into whatever else you know is on your heart these days. So where do you want to. Where do you want to wait?
- [04:13]
David Lee Corbo
Before we do that? Can I just. I want to thank Not Nice Guy because I do have my, my Bible. So my King James version Bible with the beautiful custom the raven in the bottom corner. And. And I also got the Book of Mormon from Not Nice Guy. And that was at the last Bohemian Grove. Some of the coolest things I've ever received from anybody. So I just wanted to say thank you for that because they're awesome. I love these things. Not. Not very many people get to have a leather bound vers Book of Mormon and a King James version of the Bible, you know, with their name on it. So thank you very much for that, brother.
- [04:46]
Top Lobster
I know you standard.
- [04:48]
David Lee Corbo
Is it really?
- [04:49]
Megan
I mean like church when my kids are baptized, when they choose to be baptized, like that's what we get Them. And that's a pretty common thing.
- [04:57]
David Lee Corbo
Is it really? I wasn't raised in the church, so I have no idea. So to me, it's very meaningful. I mean, I guess it is meaningful either way.
- [05:04]
Top Lobster
Show the back. You never show the back.
- [05:06]
David Lee Corbo
You always show.
- [05:06]
Top Lobster
Show this off. You showed it on Heidi Love, and you didn't show the back.
- [05:09]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, that's right at the bottom there. Retardio. Just a little Easter egg for you.
- [05:15]
Not Nice Guy
Very cool corner. Yeah. At the end of this episode, we'll be burning one of these, depending on how it goes.
- [05:21]
David Lee Corbo
So.
- [05:21]
Megan
No, no, don't burn.
- [05:24]
David Lee Corbo
It's my understanding that King James was a homosexual demonologist. I don't know how true that is. I don't know if there's veracity to those claims, but we're not here to talk about.
- [05:31]
Megan
King James can do good things.
- [05:33]
David Lee Corbo
That's true. That's true. I suppose so. But we are here to talk about Mormonism. We did an episode with Heidi Love, and I know that it was a little bit contentious because she's an ex Mormon, and. And so it was kind of a spilling of the beans. Right. An insider's look at what really goes on within Mormonism.
- [05:52]
Top Lobster
Is something on fire in your room? I see, like, smoke.
- [05:56]
David Lee Corbo
It's my coffee.
- [05:59]
Not Nice Guy
Episode.
- [06:00]
David Lee Corbo
Just chaos.
- [06:01]
Megan
I don't think she spilled any beans. I think she found a new religion, probably.
- [06:05]
David Lee Corbo
I mean, isn't that what we all do? I don't know. We segue from one religion to the next. But let me tell you, after having that conversation, I was certainly not turned off from Mormonism. In fact, my. My look at Mormonism now is. It's one of the closest branches of Christianity that is kind of closer to Christian mysticism as. As Sam Tripoli likes to put it. And there's a lot of fun stuff within Mormonism. I don't know where to put it, but I'm excited to get into this conversation. So, I mean, where do you guys want to start in regards. Because this isn't necessarily a full rebuttal of. Of a Heidi Love episode as much as this is just, you know, more information about Mormonism. Right.
- [06:44]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Well, I give you, like a. Like a. Like a world view from, like a pro Mormon versus anti Mormon. So at least you guys get like, the other side. I mean, I think. I think I'd start at the beginning. And this is the thing that Heidi Love brought up that, like, to be entirely honest, like, ticked me off a little bit.
- [07:01]
David Lee Corbo
Okay.
- [07:01]
Top Lobster
Be like the first vision. Yeah. She. She mischaracterized the first vision, in a way that was just like. Like, frustrating to me because if she had gone to the temple and was, like, a member her whole life, like, she know. She knew better. And so that. That frustrated me a bit because it's like, okay, well, I know that, you know, that's not how the story went. Like, so why are you telling, you know, well, let's start there.
- [07:29]
David Lee Corbo
What did she say exactly? Because I. I have a hard time remembering. And. And then what would you add as a caveat or how would you correct that?
- [07:37]
Top Lobster
Yeah, so, like, the story that she. She tells is that, like, Joseph Smith, he read some scripture in James or, you know, in the Bible where it says, you know, you should. You should pray to know things. He went out to a grove and he knelt to pray. And then he was, like, surrounded by darkness, and he blacked out. And when he woke up, there were these two beings standing over him. Yeah, this great, great pull up top. And, you know, he. He told them not to join any churches and stuff. So, like, it's maybe not obvious to other people what. What I have a problem with, but, like, he never blacked out.
- [08:14]
Megan
First critical piece there that she completely bypassed.
- [08:17]
Top Lobster
Yeah. So what happened in the, like, official story would be like, Joseph smith read James 1:5, where it says, if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally abradeth not it shall be given him. Something like that. And so Joseph Smith, you know, was in this time, this period where, like, there was a lot of religious contention. People didn't know which church to join. There were churches all over the place. There's also very, like, superstitious and, you know, folk, like, folklore going around. And so he didn't know where to go and who to join. So he's like, well, I'm gonna go pray to God. Because I read, you know, I read this scripture where it says, if you lack wisdom, pray about it. And so he did, and he went to a place where he had, you know, just like a secluded grove and knelt and prayed. And as he started praying to find out which church was true, he was, like, surrounded by, like, darkness. And he felt like it was not like someone like. Not like some imagined thing, but like, this real force that was closing in on him, trying to kill him if it could.
- [09:24]
David Lee Corbo
Is this when he is. He's still a very young man at this time.
- [09:27]
Top Lobster
He's, like, 12 years old.
- [09:28]
David Lee Corbo
He's like. He's 14, kid.
- [09:30]
Top Lobster
14?
- [09:30]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [09:31]
Not Nice Guy
She's. She's like, obfuscating the, the idea of him blacking out to this part of this, this darkness part.
- [09:37]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Well, I also don't like how she downplayed the scripture like that.
- [09:40]
Megan
He never loses consciousness. And then when he's being surrounded by darkness, the key factor is that he calls out to Christ so it's before he even utters a word. And then as soon as he calls out to Christ, that's where.
- [09:51]
Top Lobster
Right, exactly. And that was where I was bothered by it because she left that part out. So he's being surrounded by darkness about, you know, feeling like he's about to be destroyed. And he calls out to Christ and as soon as he does that, the darkness dissipates and then the light descends on him and the figures appear and he sees God and Jesus Christ. And one, they look, apparently they look exact, like very similar. And one points to the other and goes, this is my beloved son, hear ye him. And then, you know, Jesus speaks to him, tells him to join none of them, that they're all wrong. The creeds are an abomination. Yeah.
- [10:27]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, that's interesting. So that is to say, could that be interchangeable with. The denominations are an abomination, more or less.
- [10:37]
Top Lobster
But I think it's more of like the foundation of what Christianity has been built upon for the last 2000 years was the creation of man and not.
- [10:46]
Not Nice Guy
The, the book of Revelation. Right. The first, the first couple of chapters are basically going through whatever the denominations were there at the time and saying, this sucks. This sucks. This sucks. So fairly common practice.
- [10:59]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he didn't join any of them. He was. And he like, he told, like this is kind of like later on down the line, I guess. But like, Heidi Love got into like the treasure digging and it's like, okay, well you're gonna, you're gonna get on a guy for a summer job. Like, like, I've done some weird summer jobs.
- [11:20]
Megan
There's conflicting. I mean, there's been rumors since the beginning. And so there's a lot of information that it's like, it's not necessarily secondhand. It's from people that were contentious or antagonistic to him from the beginning. So you kind of have to sift through. And I don't know that anyone's going to get the total truth.
- [11:36]
David Lee Corbo
But so far, I mean, the idea that you would, excuse me, ask, ask God for wisdom when you lack it, and then to have this, this experience where it feels like darkness is encroaching on you and when you call out to Christ that, I mean, all of that tracks in a massive way. I couldn't. If that is how it is really unfolding, I couldn't fault that. Well, that feels pretty. Pretty straightforward on its face.
- [12:00]
Top Lobster
Well, it's not uncommon either. Like, at the time, it was called the Second Great Awakening. Like, people were claiming visions and all sorts of stuff all the time. But, like, Joseph Smith seems to be, like, the only one who came out of it with, you know, a big church. And he. He had his own translated Book of Mormon, his own works.
- [12:19]
Not Nice Guy
Can I ask you a question? How so? He said he saw Jesus and God.
- [12:26]
David Lee Corbo
And that they look very similar.
- [12:27]
Top Lobster
He said they're two personages. Yeah.
- [12:31]
Not Nice Guy
How did he. How is he able to look upon God? Is there something about this guy Joseph Smith? Because I know that really nobody can look out, look at God. Was it. It was Moses that was able to look at him as he walked by.
- [12:45]
David Lee Corbo
But only see his back?
- [12:47]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah. What's up with this guy Joseph Smith? Is he like, do you want to.
- [12:50]
Megan
Do that or do you want me.
- [12:51]
David Lee Corbo
To go for it?
- [12:53]
Megan
Okay.
- [12:54]
Not Nice Guy
Super strong eyes.
- [12:56]
Megan
You have to be translated. You have to be changed in some way in order to view the glory of God. And so we believe that's what happened with Moses. That's what happened in the New Testament. When people are encountered with, like, Jehovah or God, they're changed in some way. And that would be what happened with Joseph Smith. And I think one of the first things that Christ says to him is like, your sins are forgiven you. And so he would be more in a state of innocence at that time. Does that sort of answer your question?
- [13:25]
David Lee Corbo
Well, no, I mean, so. So within it.
- [13:29]
Not Nice Guy
Would it make sense why, like, why Moses wouldn't be able to look upon God because he didn't have Jesus at the time to that. That had that covenant where he could remove his sins. So. Okay, yeah. All right. That. That does make a little bit of sense to me.
- [13:43]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [13:43]
Top Lobster
We call it transfiguration.
- [13:45]
David Lee Corbo
Right, Right.
- [13:46]
Top Lobster
It's where you're transfigured.
- [13:47]
Megan
That would be the temporary. Right. And then translated as more permanent. That would be like Enoch.
- [13:51]
Not Nice Guy
It's like we'd have to constantly be transfigure, transfiguring ourselves because we're constantly sinning. So I guess if. All right, all right, I get. I get what you're saying here.
- [14:00]
Megan
The other thing, though, is that we believe that Jehovah, the Old Testament, that Jesus. And so he was the one that was interacting with the world.
- [14:09]
Not Nice Guy
Interesting.
- [14:10]
David Lee Corbo
Well, we've heard that argument, and I Think even Ed Mabry makes it so. There are moments in the Bible where God is, is talking about when he left his throne and, and I, I forget exactly how it goes, but that, that reference to like Jesus Christ, people, people seeing God before the arrival of Jesus Christ. And I believe there's like descriptives that it sounds very much the same way that Jesus was described throughout the Bible. So even before the first coming of Christ there seems to be some correlation where when people have experiences with God, there are similar descriptives that would have been used later on in the book to describe Jesus Christ. So it's like an, you know, it's his Son, but it's an aspect of him. So I mean, it's not the first time I'm coming across this concept that they are similar looking or similar in appearance.
- [14:59]
Not Nice Guy
I mean the idea of the Trinity, right, it's like one in the same. It's, it's very, it's complex. Kind of hard for me to grasp.
- [15:05]
Top Lobster
Well, it's not nonsense.
- [15:07]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [15:09]
Not Nice Guy
So what the hell are you saying then?
- [15:13]
Megan
Well, we just did an episode on the Trinity.
- [15:15]
Top Lobster
Yeah, we did. Before we like move on from that though. I did want to mention that like, like Adam walked with Jesus and he partook the apple and then you know, tried to blame the woman for, for his down, you know, mistakes. And he wasn't like immediately destroyed or cast out. And then even after he was, he left the garden, Cain slew Abel and the Lord still appeared to Cain and was like, what have you done?
- [15:39]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, I was like, there are times.
- [15:42]
Top Lobster
Where, there are times where it's maybe not fully understood exactly how that you stand in the presence. I mean, it's definitely different because like, well, like I don't think we believe Jesus had a body at that time because he received his body when he came later on. So you know, there may be something different as far as like a glorified bodily person versus the spirit of.
- [16:08]
David Lee Corbo
Well, doesn't it make sense in some way that the physical form would imitate the spiritual form? I think so, yeah. So I mean this idea that he, you know, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Egg is, is, you know, I mean, oh, Master, he's kicking off the, you know, the creation of the universe and long before the arrival of Jesus Christ. And then, you know, you have this big thing whatever, wherever you guys stand on the Trinity. I'm just using it as an analogy in this context to highlight how, you know, similar descriptives are used for the Father and used for Christ. So. Yeah, I mean, if spirit imitates, or rather if flesh imitates spirit, then you can kind of follow that. That through line.
- [16:48]
Top Lobster
Yeah, it was Genesis 4:16, and Cain went out from the presence of the Lord.
- [16:53]
David Lee Corbo
Right. And that's when didn't God come to him and ask him, you know, where his brother is? And that's where you get the line, am I my brother's keeper?
- [16:59]
Top Lobster
My brother's keeper. Right, yeah.
- [17:01]
David Lee Corbo
And that's another instance of number one. Of course God knows, right? I mean, it's not like ditch, bro.
- [17:08]
Top Lobster
He always gives you an opportunity to explain yourself.
- [17:10]
David Lee Corbo
He gives you an opportunity to explain yourself. Exactly. And also in what context is he there asking Cain that question?
- [17:17]
Top Lobster
But there was definitely some sort of presence involved. He, like he was in the presence of either a spirit or something along those lines. But yeah, we don't kind of going back to the other thing too, like the Trinity. We don't believe in the Trinity. We do think that, like Jesus, Heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit are three separate beings. We only worship God the Father. So we.
- [17:41]
Megan
But we do recognize that Christ is right. You know, he's the only begotten of the Father. So he is as much God as the Father, only made through him.
- [17:48]
David Lee Corbo
When Christ says that the way to the Father is through him.
- [17:54]
Megan
I agree with it. I don't understand the question.
- [17:57]
David Lee Corbo
Well, I'm. I'm just asking if you agree with that, then that's, that's.
- [18:00]
Megan
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [18:01]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [18:01]
Megan
Like, we pray in the name of Jesus Christ to the Father.
- [18:04]
David Lee Corbo
Okay. Yeah.
- [18:04]
Top Lobster
So baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. I mean, all of our prayers aim end in the name of Jesus Christ.
- [18:11]
Not Nice Guy
You just think that they're three distinct entities.
- [18:14]
David Lee Corbo
Okay, Yeah, I would agree. Jesus Christ is the air. So I would agree with the idea that they're three separate entities, but there is an overlap between them. So. So they are their own separate entities, but they share some fundamental shit in common. Right?
- [18:28]
Megan
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Well, John 17 clarifies that they're one, but he explains exactly what he means by one.
- [18:34]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, so. So we, I think we, we look at the Trinity or we look at a lot of things as through a lens of this physical realm that we inhabit. We don't have a lot of understanding of the spiritual realm. We don't understand how something can be. I don't know how omnipresence or omnipotence escapes us entirely. Right. These, this God is outside of. Of time and space, but even the symbol of the Trinity, I Think it kind of does. And I'd be open to. To your thoughts on it. It looks like it represents it pretty well because if they were the same exact beings, you'd have one circle, but instead you have three overlapping circles where there's some conjoining, you know, crossover, but then also a massive body of the circles that are outside of one another. You know what I mean? So.
- [19:23]
Not Nice Guy
So in that way, personalities for each of these. Each of these. Each of the Trinity.
- [19:30]
David Lee Corbo
But I, I mean, I would agree with that. I would agree with, like, they're, they're separate entities, but there's obviously massive conjoining tissue. And so I think the actual visual representation of the symbol of the Trinity kind of, if you look at it through that lens, does a pretty good job. But then what, do people take it and, you know, interpret it differently or run with it in a different direction?
- [19:48]
Megan
If you change Trinity to Godhead, then we're on the same page.
- [19:52]
David Lee Corbo
This seems interchangeable, no?
- [19:54]
Megan
Well, it depends on who you talk to.
- [19:56]
Top Lobster
Right.
- [19:56]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, so, I mean, you guys know, or at least not Nice Guy knows. My, My understanding of. Of Christianity and Catholicism is. I'm. I'm getting into this new. So I'm looking at this from. I guess you would call it, like a naive perspective. I see that Trinity, and I go, yeah, that. That makes sense. But then when you say Godhead, I go, yeah, okay, that also resonates with me. And so when you say there's three separate entities definitively, but there's a tremendous amount of overlap, I can't even figure a way that I would push back against that. That seems exactly what's going on in my head.
- [20:28]
Top Lobster
Yeah, Well, I definitely think they're like, one in purpose and, like, they obviously have, like, Jesus obviously has, like, God's DNA, for lack of a better term, where, like, they are. They are still part of, like, what the cat. I get the Catholics would say the same essence, but they're. They're not the same person. Just like your son or your daughter isn't going to be the same person as you, but they are like you. When you look at them, you see yourself in them still.
- [20:51]
Megan
Well, and you point out that there's a hierarchy that's pretty evident in the Scriptures. Like, Christ never does his own will. It's always the will of the Father.
- [20:58]
David Lee Corbo
Yes, yes. And. And why would you constantly reference the Father? Why would you even reference yourself as the way to the Father if you were one in the same exact thing? So I, I think it's just, you know, when it comes into the semantics of, of conversations like this, surrounding the Trinity or anything else, it's. It's not the fault of Scripture as much as it's the fault of We. We're limited in our understanding. That's why we're told constantly to lean not on our own understanding. Right. Because some things are just beyond us. You know, if, if. And, and people that get, you know, get upset when it's like, oh, that it requires faith, that last part. Because some things are beyond us and people pull back at that concept. But I mean, there's a lot of things that we anecdotally have faith in and, but, but are beyond our own understanding. We're doing that same thing right now when it comes to like quantum computing and like that. Like, we don't understand that well and we just hear that jargon, right? The multiverse or other dimensions or quantum super states. If you observe something, it's in a, then that determines the state that it's in. But the act of not observing it, it's in a super state where it's both here and there. We don't understand that that requires a leap of faith. So there are things that are beyond our grasp.
- [22:14]
Not Nice Guy
I'm comfortable saying that I'm not quite sure how this works. And I'm also, I think anybody that says that they do understand exactly how it works is full of shit.
- [22:25]
Megan
Yeah, I agree. Well, I think that's why the creeds are an abomination, is because it says you have to believe in this exact way.
- [22:30]
David Lee Corbo
Yes.
- [22:31]
Top Lobster
It's funny too, because if you ask a Catholic, like, like what. What is the Trinity? They'll go, well, it's like he's, like he's unknowable. We don't actually know. It's hard to talk about without like descending into heresy. But I'm going to hell if I don't believe in the Trinity. So like, I don't understand how I'm going to be going to hell for something that nobody can actually possibly truly know or understand.
- [22:54]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, that's.
- [22:56]
Top Lobster
I think it goes to strange to me.
- [22:58]
Not Nice Guy
It probably comes down to this weird metaphysical thing that exists on whatever plane God exists on, not on this realm. So it's, it's going to be very hard for us to understand or explain the physics, but there certainly is this aspect of like, they are moving in one accord and they have this same goal. But then you have these parts where Jesus will look up and say, why have you forsaken me? Or Jesus doesn't quite know he doesn't quite know the exact plan of what God has sent him to do. And it seemed like when all the years that he's on Earth, he's learning, he's figuring it out. So there is this a disconnect. I don't understand it. I also will say that I do like the idea of the Trinity. I like the idea of they are of this one mind, but they are separate entities for sure.
- [23:44]
David Lee Corbo
Right.
- [23:45]
Not Nice Guy
There's something strange here that we, well, we'll never know.
- [23:47]
David Lee Corbo
I think it's almost a question of why not both, right? Why not share a tremendous aspect in common? Why not also be individual entities? You know, and going back to that faith conversation and how people who are non religious will pull away from this, it's like we know that our eyes are only capable of seeing, you know, so much of the light spectrum. And so there are colors that are beyond our perception. And we take it, you know, on face value that those colors exist. Are they provable? Well, some of them are with infrared and things like that. And you have this idea of like ultraviolet, whatever, man. Mostly we're taking that on faith. So we understand that there are things that are beyond our perception and we don't get upset about it when it comes to science, but when it comes to religion, then all of a sudden everybody gets upset.
- [24:32]
Top Lobster
Well, I, I kind of want to push back a little bit on like the, the whole, like, unknowableness of God. I feel like, what father doesn't want to be known by his children? And I think that's why he sent Jesus is because we're supposed to emulate Jesus who lived a perfect life, who is the literal son of God. Like, Jesus came here so that we could know God, not so that we would be confused and not understand who our Father in heaven is and not have a relationship with him. Like there, there's I, I, I, I, I don't agree with the Catholics on this. I think his power is more unknowable than God is. I think God has done everything that he possibly can within reason to like, help us understand who he is so we can have a relationship with Him.
- [25:16]
David Lee Corbo
I would say.
- [25:16]
Megan
I want to clarify, Go ahead. I want to clarify something Heidi Love said where she's like, the Mormons believe that God literally banged Mary. Like, not only super disrespectful, but no, we don't actually, we don't know how he was conceived, so.
- [25:30]
David Lee Corbo
Well, that seems reasonable.
- [25:32]
Megan
Right? So we're not going to speculate or like put ourselves in a box that we know exactly how it happened. We don't.
- [25:36]
Top Lobster
Well, this happens a lot. This is one of the, I would say, like the fallacies that a lot of anti Mormons fall into is they. If someone who's LDS does something or says something, then, oh, well, then the whole church did or said this. It's not true. We also have like, we don't believe that prophets are infallible. So just because Joseph Smith says something or, you know, Brigham Young had a theory, like, it doesn't mean that it's doctrine or that it came directly from God. I think it gets kind of law, like, like kind of lost in the weeds because people think, oh, well, like all the scriptures, everything they said is true. And it's like, yeah, but like you didn't record all the conversations they had outside of those scriptures. It's like, well, how's a little different when it's like 200 years ago, there's a lot of documentation on things that they said and who they, you know, what they did. And we don't have that. It's not even that long ago. We don't have that for like Jeremiah or Moses or Jesus. So like, I think if we had a different look on it, people, it.
- [26:35]
Megan
Is obvious that Moses made mistakes too. Right?
- [26:38]
David Lee Corbo
Well, none of people have Christ.
- [26:40]
Top Lobster
Exactly.
- [26:41]
Megan
Right, Right. But they'll. What anti mos and ex mos do a lot of times is they'll argue like atheists, where they'll be like, like she wouldn't say Sky Daddy talking about someone that believes in God, but she will use absurdity to characterize our faith.
- [26:55]
Top Lobster
So let me say the magic underwear thing.
- [26:58]
Not Nice Guy
What did you call them? Anti what? Anti mos.
- [27:00]
Top Lobster
Exmos.
- [27:01]
Megan
Exmos. And then there's progmos, which are like progressive Mormons. There's kind of a war within the church. Like, there's a lot of interesting stuff.
- [27:08]
David Lee Corbo
We could talk about, but that's within every denomination.
- [27:11]
Top Lobster
Right.
- [27:11]
David Lee Corbo
What I want to ask you is.
- [27:13]
Not Nice Guy
If I like your slur, though. I like the slur, dude.
- [27:15]
David Lee Corbo
I thought it was, I thought it was, you know what I thought she was saying? I thought initially for a split second, I was like, oh, like X Moses enjoyers and, and pro Moses enjoyers. I was like, damn, I didn't know there was a real deviation on Moses like that. So, so you know, Joseph Smith has this experience and he's told that the, the creeds are. What was the, the word machine.
- [27:37]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [27:37]
David Lee Corbo
Okay, so then we have the, the springing up of the Mormon Church and how did, how Then does the. The church square those ideas where Joseph is the recipient of this idea that the denominations are abominations, does that then mean that he erects the correct domination or denomination or. Or is this. Yeah, okay, okay. All right.
- [27:59]
Top Lobster
Yeah, you know, what do you mean?
- [28:00]
David Lee Corbo
No, because Joseph Smith didn't do it.
- [28:04]
Top Lobster
Jesus Christ did it. So this is why we call it the restoration. It's the restored gospel brought back to the earth. So, like, a lot of people will quote me. It's like, oh, well, they said that, like, the gates of hell will never, you know. Yeah. Prevail against, like, the Church. And it's like, well, yeah, it didn't because it was restored.
- [28:27]
Megan
Like, the apostasy was also prophesied in Amos and in different scriptures.
- [28:32]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Even Jesus Christ says, like, there will be a falling away first before he returns. It was like, in our belief, the apostasy that falling away happened shortly after, you know, the last apostles were killed. And then they convened these councils and discussed, like, which books to put into the Bible and, like, which ones to keep, which ones to throw away, which ones, you know, how. How to interpret them. And then it was like, once it was set in stone, then it's like, all right, everyone else needs to go.
- [29:05]
David Lee Corbo
Let me ask you this. In. In what are some of the ways in which Mormonism deviates from, say, like, an orthodox Christianity? Some of the. Some of the major ways. I'm not asking for the whole laundry.
- [29:15]
Top Lobster
List, but the Trinity for sure.
- [29:17]
David Lee Corbo
The Trinity for sure. Okay, so we've got that one.
- [29:19]
Top Lobster
Oh, that's a good one.
- [29:21]
David Lee Corbo
What was that?
- [29:22]
Not Nice Guy
Mortal existence.
- [29:22]
Megan
Pre. Mortal existence. We believe we existed as spirit children before we were born. So, like, when it talks about in the Bible, you know, before you were in your mother's womb, I knew you. And it talks about foreordination and it talks about Christ in the spirit before he had a body. We believe that souls existed or spirits existed before they were born.
- [29:40]
Not Nice Guy
Where are you guys at on reincarnation?
- [29:43]
Megan
That's a debate in the church. Some people believe in what they call multiple mortal probations. Where. But the official church would say, you get one chance.
- [29:53]
David Lee Corbo
Okay, so what is then? I'm not, you know, I don't like you guys.
- [29:59]
Top Lobster
Like, I think it is. Yeah, sure. As possible. Until he tells me it's not. You know, that's my personal belief.
- [30:04]
David Lee Corbo
I understand you guys are Mormons. You're not orthodox Christians, but you're saying that this idea of, like, existing pre. Mortal, you know, what was the expression used?
- [30:16]
Top Lobster
Pre.
- [30:16]
Megan
Mortal existence.
- [30:17]
Top Lobster
Pre.
- [30:17]
David Lee Corbo
Mortal.
- [30:18]
Megan
What we called. It's funny because what we call the spirits before, they're sort of. I don't know how to explain this. What we say that God did is that he organized intelligences, that we existed in some form. And then Heidi says, well, everyone knows intelligences are demons. It's like, well, that's a thing that everybody knows.
- [30:36]
Not Nice Guy
So yes, they are. But again, it's like, why not? What? Yeah, yeah. What the demons do is just replicate. They, they don't really create. So yeah, if they're doing these things, if the fallen are doing something somewhere. Yeah, I think about like the UFO phenomenon as well. We see a lot of that and I, I think immediately fallen angel. But I'm like, well, why not angel technology as well? Like this is presented itself in the Bible the same way.
- [31:01]
David Lee Corbo
Well, it's the same thing that pops up with the number seven, right where it's like, yeah, we. We've did an episode recently with John Lee. I forget his name, his last name was a childback. But he lays out this like, you know, 77 pattern. It appears in all these like major events. 9, 11, yada yada. And it appears like over and over and over again. It's the 77th floor. It's, it was it departed from this at the 77th, you know, whatever. Over and over and over again. And it's like, does that make 77 bad? Well, in the Bible it talks about resting in seven days. There are seven seals. It goes on and on and on. So it's like. No, it's just an inversion. Yeah, it's just an inversion of some sort of spiritual principle. God makes the spiritual principle. They co opt it.
- [31:44]
Top Lobster
That's one of my arguments against Heidi Love is she says, oh, well, look at these symbols and look at, you know, this upside down cross on this cane and stuff like that. And it's just like, well, you know, if, if, if you presuppose that like we are the restored church, the original church, you know, from every sense, Moses all the way down to, to Jesus is coming. Like, well, yeah, like we're gonna have those same symbols because where did the evil people get those symbols from? Well, they got it from the original restored, you know, the original church. Well, if we're the restored church, where the original church brought back, then well, yeah, we're gonna have the same symbols.
- [32:16]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [32:18]
Megan
Did you have a guest on that, talked about the. The code of colors, the code of markings?
- [32:23]
David Lee Corbo
Yes.
- [32:23]
Megan
Yeah. So we would believe that too. And like when God gives Adam the garment to cover himself to cover his nakedness. Like, that's essentially what our garment represents, is that we're taking upon this covering and the atonement. That word, I think it's Kippur, means covering. So we're covering ourselves with Christ.
- [32:43]
David Lee Corbo
Shout out to Prometheus Lens podcast. That's exactly who we're talking. That's our guy right there, Justin Brown. Shout out, Justin. He's. He's the man. So do you guys believe that, though, that this. This coat that was given to Adam was stripped from the. The nakash in the garden, the serpent, and. And given to him?
- [32:59]
Top Lobster
Well, it's not doctrine, but I. I think there's definitely room for it to be true.
- [33:04]
Megan
I'd say there's room for it. Yeah. I think you get into trouble when you start putting yourself into rigid boxes, which the Pharisees did.
- [33:09]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. It seems like the Bible. We've talked about this a lot where it's like it's given you what you need to know, but there was so much that just wasn't. You would. The book would never end. It would be, you know, it would be the size of a sofa. You would never get through it. And so I agree.
- [33:24]
Not Nice Guy
Bring it on a plane and give it to you dog.
- [33:26]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [33:27]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [33:27]
David Lee Corbo
It's got to be able to fit in your nightstand when you go to a hotel. So. So I. I agree with you. Once you make it doctrine, that becomes problematic. But. But I think I'm very open to the. The speculation. It becomes fun, but it's a slippery slope.
- [33:41]
Top Lobster
That's the thing that I really like about the LDS Church is that we, like, we do have doctrine. But then it's like, even. Even on every Sunday, it's like the people who are talking and. And, you know, getting up at the. The pulpit and telling people what, you know, teaching. It's people, it's the members of the congregation. So it's. We don't just have, like, one pastor who gets up there and says, this is what we believe, and this is why we believe it. Here are the scriptures. It's like, no. Like, one week it'll be me. Next week it'll be Megan, and the week after it'll be somebody else. And so, like, there's this open discourse. There's room for being wrong. There's also room for exploring possibilities, not being called a heretic.
- [34:19]
Not Nice Guy
So you. You're doing. You're preaching. When do you do church? Sundays. Saturdays.
- [34:25]
Top Lobster
Yeah, Sundays.
- [34:26]
Not Nice Guy
So you. You are actually having a turn preaching or bringing forward. That's an interesting. See Now, I think this is one of my main issues with the. The common church, like the church that I would have went to and my parents go to. Now you go in this one guy talking, and he's probably good at his job, and he's also studied. He's got the correct credentials and stuff like that. But I feel like the conversation is missing. And. And unfortunately, people come to this show where we've said all kinds of crazy. Actually, we just came up on another show the other day yesterday, for being extremely racist. They referred any fans who are racist to this show. But I get DM after dm.
- [35:05]
Megan
Am I on the wrong show?
- [35:07]
Top Lobster
You're on the show.
- [35:09]
David Lee Corbo
Shout out to.
- [35:10]
Not Nice Guy
My heart goes out to you. But it's. It's like we're just kind of like, allowing a discourse of talking back and forth. And I feel like people get a lot more from that than this one way from the, like, behind a pulpit talking at you. Right? Yeah, it's a little bit like, the.
- [35:29]
Top Lobster
Best way to learn is to teach, like, if you really want to.
- [35:32]
David Lee Corbo
That's true.
- [35:33]
Top Lobster
Test how much. You know. It's like you teach. And, I mean, I think it's a great way for people. And, like, there have been times where people get up there and they start teaching, and then afterwards, the bishop will, like, film, say he's like, you know, hey, actually, like, that's. That's. That's a little too far. Like, there's this one time, there's. We do test. The first Sunday of every month, we do what's called the testimony meeting, where instead of, like, you know, someone getting up there and teaching everyone, everyone in the congregation has the opportunity of going up there and bearing their testimony. So a lot of times it's. It's kind of.
- [36:01]
David Lee Corbo
That's great. I love that idea.
- [36:03]
Top Lobster
Yeah. It can get wild and it's fat. It's a fasting testimony meeting, you know, so, like, everything's fasting.
- [36:09]
David Lee Corbo
We're all side by side in this pursuit of, you know, coming closer to God. And. And I never really did like the idea that there is supposed to be this hierarchy and this one individual is the mouthpiece of God. That's one of the things that gets me about Catholicism when it comes to the Pope. It's like, it's essentially, you're this.
- [36:27]
Not Nice Guy
You're.
- [36:27]
David Lee Corbo
You're keeping the chair warm for. For Jesus Christ. That feels strange to me because you're just an old man with a fish hat. So I. I don't know. I don't know. I don't like that model and, and I learned. I think that's a great observation. Not nice guy. If you want to learn something, you have to, you know, teach it. And, and that was always something. So as a martial artist, my, my boxing in particular got significantly better when I started teaching boxing. So this idea that you could have this cross pollination of ideas and, and nobody gets cast out of it. I think that's great. I want to kind of go back for a second though. I almost am surprised that given the, the verse that you provided Megan, that before you in your mother's womb I knew you that the orthodox Christian church doesn't believe that. Do you know what they believe is, do they have like a strong stance against it? Is it something that they just don't talk about that much because it seems right on its face in the Bible.
- [37:26]
Top Lobster
I don't know what they believe.
- [37:27]
Megan
I, well I feel like it seems obvious to me certain things but I, I don't know what they believe. That's why I came back to being a Mormon is because this is what makes the most sense to me.
- [37:38]
Not Nice Guy
Can we. Do you want to go through your journey really quick? I mean I think you were talking in the pre show not nice guy about how you came back to the church during COVID but Megan, you've been in the Mormon church for your whole life and then went away came back. So if you give us a brief synopsis on this because I think that that's important in understanding what this is.
- [37:59]
Megan
Okay. So I, my mom and my dad both come from like pioneer but genetically Mormon is not a thing. So I have that ancestry but wasn't ever like I was rubbed the wrong way when Heidi said Mormon royalty. Like it's kind of antithetical to what it is to believe in the faith. So I was raised with like they have very strong faith. We did what's called family home evening every Monday where they you know, have family led study of the scriptures. And then eventually I went, I graduated early from high school, went to college, I went to byu, Idaho which is a faith based school. And then I realized I don't actually have a faith of my own. I was kind of leaning into my parents faith and now I don't actually have a good class. Had like, you know, my first existential crisis and dropped out. And then I moved across the country to marry my husband who was in the military at the time and he had, he got baptized and he didn't tell me, which I'm grateful that he did because I didn't want him to, like, change for me or, you know, join for me. And then there was a scripture in Ruth because it was kind of a contention between the two of us, but there was a scripture, that scripture, that's like when Ruth says to her mother in law, like, I'll go where you go. Your God will be my God. I gave that to my husband in his ring because it's like, okay, I'm going to kind of submit to you and we'll do this together. Um, and then his faith grew. We both kind of grew together, and we were kind of in, kind of out. I had a unique experience. Like, we moved way more than we should have moved with the military, like 20 times. And then we spent time living in Japan and we kind of attended churches all throughout. So I feel like I got a really good understanding of what the gospel is outside of the culture, because the culture in Utah, my. My extended family grew up in Utah. My cousins, I was very familiar with that and I didn't like it. So one of the things that I loved about my husband is he didn't have that culture. Yeah. So that's kind of. And then I had, you know, kids, and that was like, I need to either be in or be out. I need to know. Like, I need to dig into it. So it. Eventually it was me deciding to put in the work to really know what it is. And I still like, I love other faiths. So I've gone to church with, you know, my Catholic friends, and I've tried different things, and this is the one that makes the most sense to me. But that doesn't mean I don't love and respect truth in other places.
- [40:25]
David Lee Corbo
That is a luxury that, that sort of fence sitting that a lot of people will engage in. I'm not saying that this is what you did, but what you did do, which is why I'm highlighting it, is make this decision after children. And that's like the big. I mean, that was in a huge way for me too. I. I've always been a seeker and I've always been trying to understand, but once my son was born, once I was, you know, married and everything, all those things came together and it. It does something to like, really light a fire. Fire under your ass. I think it just puts things into perspective in a huge way because now you are part of something that transcends the physical. Yeah, right. Your leveling relationship, your relationship with your wife, your relationship with your children transcends the physical. And, and just that feeling alone, it urges you to like, seek a little bit more or. Or at least to not. Not be lukewarm. Right. To. To pick something and to go towards it. So I just find that a common theme in a lot of people's. It certainly wasn't my experience.
- [41:28]
Megan
What. And I. If you don't mind, I want to add, like, I had two main experiences that kind of solidified my faith. So in 2008. 2008, when my husband and I were engaged, we were headed home to. From North Dakota to Idaho, and we were hit. We were hit head on. On the freeway, really 80 miles per hour. And we rolled like it was a fatal crash. The EMTs were like. We brought body bags, which EMT should never say to people, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [41:58]
David Lee Corbo
You want to keep that under wraps? Don't freak people out.
- [42:01]
Megan
We walked away and that was like.
- [42:04]
David Lee Corbo
You know, that's huge.
- [42:05]
Megan
It was a miracle to me, so. And then there were other little things that kind of solidified. Okay. I know there's a God. And that's one of the things where I think faith is very. It's line upon line, precept upon precept, where you first, you know, faith in God, second, what comes next? What can I know? And I think what happened with Heidi is that she. And I don't know her. So this is just me speculating. But, like, when she says a lot of members leave and they become atheists, that's because they don't have that foundation of, like, what are you built upon if all you have is the Latter Day Saint faith? And then you lose that, like, what are you gonna fall back to?
- [42:40]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. And that's not unique, by the way, to the Mormon Church. That's every church. Catholicism, Christianity, it doesn't matter when you have a falling away. Sometimes people in their own, like, pride and hubris, they decide because this thing that I've identified is wrong. Was where I was before. Well, now wherever I'm going is certainly right. And. And usually it's in the polar opposite of whatever experience you had. That's why I often say I was blessed to not have been raised in the church, because I think I have kind of a rebellious nature myself that I have to deal with. And I could have easily pulled away from that, but I never had that baggage. I like what not nice guy was saying before too. When it comes to, like, what father doesn't want his. His child to know? And we're talking about this idea of faith, I think there is a shit ton you can know. You could know a lot. I mean, I am in the process of, of, you know, getting to know more where I thought I did previously. And then through whatever set of circumstances I'm led to this, this, this biblical narrative. And I realize upon closer scrutinization that like, oh yeah, there's quite a bit you can actually know. So that's a trope that exists outside of religion that I'm very familiar with where people, you, you think it's all face faith based. It's like faith is a massive component about it. And I don't think it has so much to do with, I don't know, believing something without evidence as much as it has to do with trusting the father. That's, that's really like when I hear faith, I hear trust the father, not like believe without information. That, that to me. But that's what a lot of people interpret it as. Faith equals believe without information. I think that's a misunderstanding.
- [44:18]
Top Lobster
Yeah. That's why there's a distinction between blind faith and faith. Right. Yeah. I think just the fact that he's our father tells us a lot about him. That he sees us as his children says a lot about us and says a lot about him as well. Like.
- [44:31]
Megan
Oh, sorry, we also believe, like we don't believe in a queen mother, but we do believe in a heavenly mother. Yeah, yeah, that's something else that would.
- [44:40]
David Lee Corbo
Let's. Can we talk about that a little bit? Because that's been.
- [44:42]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah, yeah. I want to get back on track with the, with the. What Mormonism is and also the differentiation that you guys, what you disagree with, with what Heidi presented.
- [44:50]
David Lee Corbo
But please, before we do that, we gave these people an extra 15 minutes they don't deserve. Guys. We are now going live exclusively to patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad. You can, however, continue watching along, enjoying an ad free viewing experience as well as gaining early access to this episode before the general public. You can even sound off in the chat. All you gotta do is go over to patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad and you can do it for free. Free. For free for a limited amount of time. So otherwise we will see you when this episode drops in its entirety. So yeah, please, let's, let's start getting back on this. And I think we, we were going into this idea of the mother, which is fascinating. I'd love to hear about that.
- [45:34]
Megan
Do you want me to do it or not?
- [45:36]
Not Nice Guy
Does it have anything. If it has anything to do with eggs, I don't want to hear it.
- [45:40]
David Lee Corbo
If it has Anything to do with eggs. Let's stop this episode. We'll start another one. We'll talk only about eggs from now on. Very open to it.
- [45:47]
Top Lobster
Well, the sear stones were oddly egg shaped. No God everywhere.
- [45:52]
David Lee Corbo
Dude, I'm kidding. Unbelievable. So.
- [45:55]
Top Lobster
Oh yeah. So like. Well, because we see like the entire LDS worldview theologically and otherwise comes down to where we, we look at everything through the familial lens. Everything's about family. That's why Heavenly Father is our father and you know, we're children of God and like Jesus is the son of God. Like, I mean even, even to the point like we call, we call like people at church, brother and sister, you know. Right.
- [46:24]
David Lee Corbo
And, and just to bolster that, it's interesting that we've identified here in 2025 now that it seems the crucial component to the falling apart of the culture in the west is the destruction of the nuclear family.
- [46:36]
Top Lobster
Yeah, my show, my show on Monday. The parallel prophecies that was, that was the one thread that went through every single prophecy is before this third shaking before like the end of days, the book of religion, like families are going to be destroyed.
- [46:48]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, yeah, I could see that.
- [46:51]
Top Lobster
And then like, and there's, there's a reason for that because if you can destroy the, the familial lens, the familial worldview, like that separates you from not just your family, the people who you are closest to, but it also separates you from God because he's our Father.
- [47:06]
David Lee Corbo
And that's one of those things, Right. Where it's like the fractal nature of reality as above, so below. That's a spiritual principle that's been co opted by, you know, dark art occultists and shit. But like we said earlier, it doesn't seem that they can create. They can only invert and co opt. So yeah, it makes sense to me what you're saying, not nice guy, that like the family unit is as. And admittedly I have been giving a lot of shit to this like divine feminine, this Mary worship stuff, but I recognize that somewhere in this picture the mother has to fit in.
- [47:38]
Top Lobster
Well, I think there's like, there's a truth there, but it's maybe not the whole truth. Right. But there is something important. Like this is something that I thought was interesting in Genesis 224.
- [47:48]
Megan
Right.
- [47:48]
Top Lobster
Is it 224? One of the first things that God does, right. For Adam is like one, he gives him a woman so he's not alone and to be supported. And he says this, therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh. Well, like Adam was the first man. He was made from the dust. How does he understand what a mother is? Why, like, he has no. He would have, he would have no understanding of, like, what's this mother idea? Like, you made me from the dust. You made her from my ribbon. Now you're talking about father and mother. Like, where, where does, where does he get this understanding? And I think this is part of them. Either. Either is left out or just, I don't know, is missing.
- [48:38]
Megan
It's kind of been washed from the Bible. Like there, there was a female wife of. I don't. Elohim in the ancient cultures. I think her name was Asherah. I don't remember exactly, but they had like, little stone statues of her that were surrounding the temple. And at first someone was like, oh, it's just a doll. But it's like, no, no, it was involved in worship. There was this connection. There's actually a Protestant woman who, In England who talks all about that. The LDS people love her because it lines up with our theology, even though she's not part of.
- [49:13]
David Lee Corbo
Makes sense to me because obviously you look at the way the feminine is portrayed within the occult versus the masculine. Masculine is, Is often order and the feminine is, Is often chaos. And that kind of analogy will leave you thinking that the div. The divine feminine. I'm using that in air quotes. That's just kind of a. Esoteric terminology. Is, Is bad. Right. And, and that gets into the whole yin and yang and the, you know, the sort of the, the, the, the push and pull of light. Yeah, but I, But I don't know if that's where that argument belongs. I, I don't know if that's where the feminine belongs in that discussion, because there are. Instead, it's almost like we've, We've placed masculine and feminine. Feminine's in the darkness, masculine's in the light, and that's the pole. But I don't think so, because masculinity has a duality. And that duality is, Is order and, and paternal love and, and structure, or rage and destruction and murder and, you know, genocide and war. Like, that's masculine. Right. And then you look at the fe. And. And it has that negative side, which is the Oedipal mother, Right. This overbearing presence that corrupts ultimately.
- [50:26]
Top Lobster
Right.
- [50:26]
David Lee Corbo
That's going to Jordan Peterson, the Oedipal mother. But then there is the, the nurturing, the sympathetic, the empathetic. The love like the lifebringer. The lifebringer. So, so you need that. I can see that as a recipe for the alchemy of this realm that we inhabit. You need that. But yeah, it's absent from the Bible or at least as far as I've seen. And I can't even claim to have read the whole Bible because I simply can't read. So there has to be some place for, for the feminine in this conversation. And I'm, I'm recognizing that as I move forward because.
- [50:55]
Top Lobster
Absolutely.
- [50:56]
David Lee Corbo
Railing hard against it.
- [50:57]
Top Lobster
Well, and there's like, it's doctrine that there is a Heavenly Mother, but there's not much doctrine about her. And I think, and this is like kind of a speculation I've heard over and over again. It's like, why don't you guys have your wives on your show? Why don't you show their faces, say their names? Like, well, there's, there's going to be backlash. That gives them, it gives people the opportunity to attack them.
- [51:18]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [51:18]
Top Lobster
So like, I kind of see the, the lack of information about Heavenly Mother is a way of like, like a, like the way a husband would protect his wife by not putting her out in the forefront.
- [51:28]
Megan
But that doesn't mean she's not influencing. That doesn't mean she's not a part of.
- [51:32]
David Lee Corbo
That's a fascinating theory because on this show we've been talking a lot about how, I think previously I was not comfortable when I was, when I was a young agnostic kind of a character. I wasn't comfortable with looking at God in any way relative to the human condition. Because basically what struck me is like, how could we ever claim to know the nature of what created this entire universe? Now I'm realizing as I've moved on that the fractal nature kicks in as above. So below or shout out to. Let me find this one real quick. I forgot who posted it. I wanted to give them their, their flowers. But this idea of like, as it is on earth, so it is in heaven or something of that nature. So I'm comfortable with that. And, and I think that we can probably see. So that idea of like protecting your wife from. Yeah, maybe, maybe there's some aspect of.
- [52:25]
Top Lobster
That that's playing out well, like tradition, I guess. Traditionally speaking, I think there's a reason why men are the ones that leave the home and they go out into the world and they face the dangers and stuff on the outside. And women are at the home nurturing, growing, protecting, you know, from a different lens. And so it's like, if it is as above, so below, then, like, there's a reason why the forefront, the thing that we see is. Is the man, right? Is. Is. Is God and not heavenly mother.
- [52:52]
David Lee Corbo
Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, man.
- [52:54]
Top Lobster
But that's like. That's, like, speculation. There's a lot of talk about it. But we do. We do believe that there's heavenly mothers. So that's one thing that for sure separates us from a lot of.
- [53:05]
Megan
We also believe in eternal marriage. That marriage doesn't end with death.
- [53:09]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, there's no such thing as death.
- [53:11]
Top Lobster
Death to us part.
- [53:12]
Not Nice Guy
So no remarrying. No. No divorce. That's kind of.
- [53:17]
David Lee Corbo
That's it in heaven. And also, it's not till death do us part. It's forever.
- [53:21]
Megan
Oh, no.
- [53:21]
David Lee Corbo
We.
- [53:22]
Megan
We. People can get divorced. I mean, we don't encourage it, but.
- [53:25]
Top Lobster
Like, it's very, very discouraged, in fact.
- [53:29]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [53:29]
Megan
You should do everything that you can to have both people work on the marriage. But, like, I mean, it happens. And in order to undo. So what we. Our marriage. I don't know how to explain this. Okay, so in the temple, kind of our capstone ordinance is called a ceiling. So you can go through the temple and be married, and the marriage is a ceiling between the husband and wife. We don't, like, exchange rings in the temple, but we do take our vows there and then in order. You can't undo that, but you have to request that from the first presidency. So that would be a, like, religious divorce.
- [54:04]
David Lee Corbo
Okay. But the idea is that it doesn't end at death. Right. So. So conventionally here in the west, when you get married in, you know, most churches, evangelical, whatever, the ones that are, you know, really common, it'll be until death do us part. And. And admittedly, I don't even like that because remember when I said that you feel a certain spiritual aspect when you start a family unit where it's like, now you know that there is a spiritual component to this. You've got to pick a side. That spiritual component to me, transcends this physical realm in time. And so when I say that I'm marrying my wife, I look at much more in a spiritual way. So, yeah, at our vows or whatever, we said till death do us part because that's what, you know, you're told to say or whatever. But I don't want that. I'd like her.
- [54:52]
Top Lobster
What's that? Scripture is like, let. Let no man divide what God has joined. Something along those lines.
- [55:00]
David Lee Corbo
Right.
- [55:01]
Top Lobster
You know, marriage is so important that you become one. You know, Then, I mean, and it was one of the first, one of the first things ever given to Adam. You know, it's like he's like, you leave his father, your father and your mother, and cleave unto your wife, become one flesh. I don't know, it's just like there's, there's. We've definitely lost the reverence of marriage, especially in this modern day. But it's like if it was so important that it was one of the first things that God told Adam, then. Well, I mean there's a, there's a spiritual importance to it that goes beyond just this life. Yeah.
- [55:38]
David Lee Corbo
And it's also incredibly. It's hugely important to God marriage. Right. Because it's, it's a, it's a covenant that you're making to or with God. With God, I guess.
- [55:48]
Megan
Yeah.
- [55:48]
David Lee Corbo
And so what we've discovered top and I is, you know, we do NDS chronicles and we're reading a lot of like paranormal testimony and you find this overwhelming pattern that emerges and that is when people are, are telling us their story about this harrowing demonic experience. It takes place sometime relevant to a divorce. And I think that, you know, that is pretty obvious on its face. Right. You have broken this covenant with God and because of this, you've given yourself over to these entities, influence.
- [56:21]
Top Lobster
I don't know what gaping spiritual wound that's like open for infection when you separate each other, that's been like fused through this like divine covenant.
- [56:32]
Not Nice Guy
Well, why. I, I know that one of the, one of the criticisms of at least like older Mormonism was polygamy or taking multiple wives. But it doesn't go the other way. Right. Like a wife.
- [56:43]
Megan
What do you mean?
- [56:44]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, no, it doesn't have mad husbands.
- [56:46]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [56:46]
Not Nice Guy
Wife can't have mad husbands.
- [56:48]
Megan
Even currently. I think you, I'm, I may be wrong on this, but a woman can only be sealed to one.
- [56:54]
Not Nice Guy
Right, Right. Okay.
- [56:56]
Megan
Yeah.
- [56:58]
Top Lobster
Well, polygamy is kind of an interesting thing because a lot of people say it and be like, oh well, it's evil. Monogamy is the only way. It's the way God said. Like, okay, what about all the people in the Bible who had multiple. Yeah. Jacob, Abraham, David.
- [57:13]
David Lee Corbo
Right.
- [57:14]
Top Lobster
So yeah, the 12 tribes come from like three different women, four different.
- [57:19]
David Lee Corbo
So the question becomes, well, there's a bunch of questions you can ask there. Was that a function of the time? And I think, does it go away? Like the idea that like after Jesus it was no longer necessary to sacrifice. Right. And so certain things do change given, I guess the the, the makeup of the reality that we're in. Could those things have served as important?
- [57:41]
Megan
Well, doesn't it say it'll come back again somewhere in the Bible? It's like the women will. Like seven women will cling to one man and be like, let us at least have your name. Or am I making that up?
- [57:51]
David Lee Corbo
Sounds like a nightmare.
- [57:53]
Not Nice Guy
I know.
- [57:54]
Top Lobster
It's funny. Megan and I were on like, diff. We were on like different sides of this at one point. At first I was just like, yeah, you know, I think, I think, you know, man should have multiple wives. I see the function. It makes a lot of sense. And then like, later on I was like, man, screw that. Like, one is enough.
- [58:14]
David Lee Corbo
Disappointing one woman on a regular basis is a heavy enough burden. I don't need to disappoint a Hiram of seven women. Thank you very much. I'm good on that.
- [58:23]
Megan
So to clarify with the early church, like one, it wasn't everybody practicing it. You had to have permission to do it. You had to be able to provide for all of the wives. And it wasn't. I think it was a necessity at the time. So like Missouri had issued the extermination order where they're. You're allowed to kill Mormons on site. And then they are.
- [58:43]
David Lee Corbo
We're gonna put a, we're gonna put a marker on that. Please finish your, your, your, your. But there was a. Okay, what was it called real quick. They put a hit on mor.
- [58:51]
Megan
Oh, yeah, yeah. Senator, I think it was Boggs, Lilburn, Bo Bogs in Missouri. Missouri actually apologized not too long ago for that.
- [58:59]
Top Lobster
Yeah, there doesn't.
- [59:00]
Megan
Sorry can come back.
- [59:04]
David Lee Corbo
Did you. Sorry we murdered you? That's crazy. Okay.
- [59:08]
Megan
Yeah. So I mean, that's kind of why the LDS people feel like, I mean, they literally were persecuted. And then a lot of Christians are like, well, you don't. You can't be in the cool kids club. So I've even had co ops with. Because I homeschool my kids and they're like, well, you don't believe the right way, so you can't participate. Which is fine. Like, it's okay.
- [59:24]
Not Nice Guy
What were you guys doing though?
- [59:27]
David Lee Corbo
Hey, what were you guys?
- [59:28]
Megan
Well, we were anti slavery in a slavery state and we were coming in. In mass, so like, I understand how that would be a threat.
- [59:34]
Top Lobster
Well, and we like. And we like burned in like a newspaper.
- [59:38]
Megan
The printing press.
- [59:39]
Top Lobster
We burnt a printing press who was posting a bunch of like, bs.
- [59:44]
David Lee Corbo
Interesting.
- [59:44]
Top Lobster
I think it's kind of based. I mean, seeing journalists these days. I'm like, well, I can understand the sentiment.
- [59:49]
David Lee Corbo
I do have. Yeah, I got a little bit of empathy for that. Yeah. It just so happens that the publication that was burnt down was called the Daily Wire, so. Okay, this is fascinating. I can't believe they. They, they. They did that. That's wild. Hit. Hit jobs on Mormons. They were killing Mormon people.
- [60:06]
Top Lobster
Wow. What was this?
- [60:06]
Megan
This is a Missouri cool story. Yeah. Missouri. Yeah. There was a guy named Porter Rockwell, and he was known as, like, the. What did they call him? The destroying angel of Mormondom. Like, the latter day Samson and Joseph Smith prophesied, like, as long as you don't cut your hair, no harm will come to you. No bullet or blade. And like, he. There's so many cool stories. Like, it's a pretty interesting relationship.
- [60:29]
David Lee Corbo
Well, that's what, you know, I have. I don't have the baggage of being raised this or that. And so I'm looking at, you know, Christianity. Let's just say that includes, like, all the denominations as super fucking cool. Because there's so much to. To learn there, and there's so much that flies in the face of the narrative that we get from whatever propaganda machine is pumping it out. And when I look at Mormonism, like I said, even. Even if. If it's. Speaking of hit jobs, if that's what Heidi did here, that wasn't what I came away. I was like, are kind of doing some cool. I don't know if I'm not saying I'm gonna become Mormon or anything like that, but I'm like, they got tech.
- [61:09]
Top Lobster
Like, we got money. We got attack.
- [61:12]
David Lee Corbo
They were hunted in. In Missouri. Now they got, you know, magic artifacts. I like that kind of shit. You know what I mean? It's very Raiders of the Lost Ark kind of a vibe.
- [61:22]
Megan
So there's another girl, Alyssa Grenfell. She is an ex M.O. also, and she, like, people are actually getting baptized because of some of these people where they're like, oh, they, like, it's a spark of something. Doesn't sound quite right here. Like, it's interesting, so I'm gonna learn more. And then they're like, oh, well, that was all bs, But I learned a lot of cool things.
- [61:43]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. Okay. All right. This is an interesting one. Somebody.
- [61:47]
Megan
Heidi's doing the Lord's work just in a roundabout way.
- [61:50]
David Lee Corbo
And that's. I mean.
- [61:51]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah.
- [61:51]
David Lee Corbo
And. And I can't really. I can't really fault people because you see that a lot, right? You're raised in a thing. I'm not saying Heidi's right or wrong. I'm. I don't know. I don't have the information. That's why we have these conversations. But I. I get it. You know, you're raised in one thing, and. And then you find disdain for it. That was actually a big fear of mine when me and my wife got together because she's an ex Jehovah's Witness. But at the time that we got together, like I said, like, marriage and. And. And having a child really does something to you on a spiritual level. So I. I had to very cautiously approach this. This idea of God with my wife, because she had already been burned by one thing all her life. You know, she had very negative experience as a Jehovah Witness. Many people do, you know, that's. That's one you could do, you know, a shit ton of episodes on. And so it was. I. I was cautious. I have a lot of empathy for that. I know people get burned when they're raised in a thing. It's just. You don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Right, right, right.
- [62:54]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Could I. Could I. Could I take a potty break real quick?
- [62:57]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, dude, go for it. Go for it. Megan, carry the whole show now. Thanks a lot.
- [63:01]
Megan
He does that to me all the time. That's fine.
- [63:02]
David Lee Corbo
That's all right. I was gonna get up just like.
- [63:04]
Not Nice Guy
Just like Master. Do Mormons think that they're. That they're the new Jew? That they are the Jews? Do they think that they're the chosen people?
- [63:12]
Megan
Kind of, yes and no. So in the Bible, it talks about. And maybe this is. There's overlap between the Book of Mormon and the Bible, and it talks about the first shall be last, and the last shall be first. So, like, after the Jews rejected the Gospel and they rejected the Messiah, then it will be brought to the Gentiles, the people who didn't have it, which is symbolic. When Christ goes to the woman at the well and he's teaching, he reveals his mission to the Sumerians before everybody else. And so we believe that it was restored. We would have been the Gentiles, like the people without the covenant first, but that everybody either belongs to or is adopted into the one of the 12 tribes. So, like, a lot of. I don't want to say white people, because I could be wrong, but, like, for example, we have something called a patriarchal blessing, and it will tell you what tribe you're from. So, like, I'm from the tribe of Ephraim, which is one of the sons of Joseph. It's like Joseph had Manasseh and Ephraim, and then Ephraim will be charged with bringing the gospel back to the rest of the world and gathering the 12 tribes. Does that sort of answer that?
- [64:14]
David Lee Corbo
Well, let me ask you this. You know, this is because of my limited understanding of biblical information, but what are the differences between the tribe. Is there a. Is there a. Or from one tribe to the next? Is it a doctrine difference?
- [64:31]
Megan
I don't know. I mean, I would think that there's. There's differences between people. Like, obviously, I'm not Asian. Somebody would think that Asian would. Would belong to a certain tribe. I don't know if there's, like, not nice. Gay. Is there, like, a racial aspect to the.
- [64:48]
David Lee Corbo
The 12 tribes, or is it. Is it a. A doctrine disagreement, you know, between.
- [64:54]
Top Lobster
I thought. I thought it was a. I thought at one point it was like a. Like a racial thing, but it turns out I've heard plenty of stories where, like, even. Even, like, brother and sister have been set to different tribes. So it's more of, like, a spiritual life. Like a spiritual. Yeah, it's like a spiritual tribe that you belong.
- [65:15]
Not Nice Guy
Is this. Is this what Heidi is, like, kind of getting on about when she's talking about, I guess, like, the special lineages? Because if I were to become. Become Mormon, I wouldn't be part of this tribe. I'm Puerto Rican, so I'd be some kind of mud blood. But I'm still embracing your religion. Is there.
- [65:33]
David Lee Corbo
Is there.
- [65:33]
Megan
Like, you'd be. You'd be part of one of the tribes, like, every. So this is one of the things that I love most about this gospel is that we believe in the Bible. When Christ said, I have other sheep which are not of this fold, he visited all of his children. Like, just because you weren't the chosen people of the beginning, like, all of God's children are essentially chosen people. And so everyone belongs to something.
- [65:57]
Top Lobster
There's a. There's a story in the Bible talks about the grafting onto the olive tree, right? And so, like, the Gentiles weren't originally a part of the olive tree, but we were grafted on later. And, like, this is kind of like a spiritual adoption into the tribes of Israel. So, like, you and me and Megan, like, we're. We're all still God's children. We're still all a part of the 10. The 12 tribes. Probably the 10 tribes, because I think to be a part of the Benjam. Well, there are 12. But then aren't the Jews and like, Jews are Judah.
- [66:32]
Megan
Right. And then Reuben lost the birthright, and that went to Joseph. And Joseph had two sons, Manasseh and Ephraim. And the only one that wasn't One of the 12 was Levi. I just looked this up, but I don't think it's.
- [66:44]
Top Lobster
I don't think you get your patriarchal blessing unless you are Jewish, that you're going to be part of the tribe of Judah. Like, I think there's like a. There has to be like a actual genetic lineage for that.
- [66:54]
Megan
I think with Levites too, because they have what we would call the lesser, like the lower priesthood. They have the Levitical or Aaronic priesthood. Oh, and that's important to know is like the priesthood, we believe is the authority to act in God's name. And so if you believe in any sort of authority and you. It's all throughout the Bible when they talk about laying out of hands, setting apart callings, being ordained. So if you believe in priesthood authority, it's either the Catholics or the Mormons, because the Catholics have some sort of claim going back to Peter. And then the Mormons claim is that it was restored.
- [67:28]
Not Nice Guy
Okay. All right. All right.
- [67:31]
David Lee Corbo
So.
- [67:31]
Not Nice Guy
Interesting. I'm David. I was just asking them about bloodline lineages, where they think they come from. But.
- [67:36]
David Lee Corbo
Well, I wanted to ask something before because, you know, you're. There's a speculation about genetics, and then obviously this comes up constantly within the Bible. Right. It seems genetics is a huge component. And I know this isn't something that you guys or the church itself practices or believes in anymore, but there was a time, at least I saw a clip, and I think that nice guy probably knows we know it's about white people. And the reason there's. The reason their skin was white is because they had picked a side in this sort of, you know, battle between good and evil. Black people are black because that is a sign that says they didn't pick a side. They're kind of neutral. Which kind of goes back to. Even besides the hilarity of that goes back to the idea that there was a side to pick before you were here in a physical way. Yeah, right.
- [68:30]
Top Lobster
We were there at the war in heaven. I mean, that's part of our belief, like with the premortal existence is like that war in heaven happened. We were all there. We were part of that war. I heard also, like, I think this is doctrine. There were no. There was no neutrality.
- [68:47]
Megan
Yeah.
- [68:47]
Top Lobster
Because you were either hot or cold. There was no lukewarm.
- [68:50]
Megan
We call it keeping your first Estate coming to earth to receive a body. And if you chose not to do that, then you essentially damned yourself. Like you cannot progress without a body.
- [68:59]
David Lee Corbo
Fascinating. So this idea that you have to pick a side. Are you talking about people within the Mormon Church? What about people outside of it? Because there is, you know, precedent within the Bible for being told not to be lukewarm. Now does that necessarily mean that you didn't make a decision before you came here, you then forget and then you behave in a way that is lukewarm.
- [69:22]
Top Lobster
Just the fact that you're here and you have a body. You made a choice in the premortal existence to, to at least not fight against God with Satan. Like Satan doesn't have a body. He was cast down before he had the opportunity to have a body because of disobedience. He. He wanted, he wanted to take Jesus's place, but he wanted to save everybody. And it would have been absolute tyranny because.
- [69:40]
Megan
And take the look the glory.
- [69:42]
Top Lobster
Yeah. You take all the glory and there would be no free will. Jesus was like, Father, your will be done. And you know, Satan didn't like that and then started the war. So just the fact that we're here, we chose aside to accept the plan of salvation and to come here to, to go through all of this.
- [70:02]
Megan
I would say no to black white thing though.
- [70:06]
David Lee Corbo
But that's. Yeah, that was something that was. Was that the entire church or was that just like individuals?
- [70:11]
Top Lobster
It was a policy, not doctrine.
- [70:13]
Megan
Well, the priesthood was never policy. It was actually like precedent that was never fully threshed out.
- [70:20]
David Lee Corbo
Wait, I'm talking about the black people thing. Is that what we're talking about?
- [70:23]
Megan
I would say that would be opinion of some people, but I don't know that it was ever. It was speculation.
- [70:28]
David Lee Corbo
It's not something that you see now commonly espoused.
- [70:31]
Megan
Yeah, correct. Well, the church is growing like crazy in Africa for example, so.
- [70:36]
David Lee Corbo
Right, right. So obviously they're picking aide spiritually. Yeah. So. Damn it. There was something that I wanted to, to ask and it escaped me. Give me a second. We were talking about the genealogy thing. No, it's, it's. It's almost certainly gone now. I've lost it. I hate it when it happens. I had.
- [70:54]
Top Lobster
Well, I could come up with another thing that we separate ourselves from other Christian face on.
- [70:59]
David Lee Corbo
What's.
- [71:00]
Top Lobster
That would be the, the spirit world where you go when you die before the resurrection. So it's kind of. The Catholics have something similar to it. They call it purgatory.
- [71:10]
David Lee Corbo
But this is something that I mean, we're talking about ghost. Yes.
- [71:14]
Top Lobster
Or I don't know about ghosts.
- [71:17]
David Lee Corbo
Well, okay, so.
- [71:18]
Top Lobster
But like, your spirit. So, like, when you. When you die, your body stays here. Your spirit goes. Depending on your baptism and the covenants that you've kept or the covenants that you made, you either go to spirit paradise or spirit prison. Spirit prisons, kind of like what the Catholics call purgatory.
- [71:34]
Megan
It's pre judgment.
- [71:35]
Top Lobster
Like, just because we haven't. We. Judgment Day isn't here yet. So, like, you're not. You're like, Grandma and Grandpa aren't in heaven or hell yet because the judgment day hasn't happened. So in the meantime, you're either in spirit prison or spirit paradise. If you're in spirit prison, people in spirit paradise, they come to the people in prison and teach them. Jesus also in New Testament, says he. He was going to teach this. I'm going to go to teach the spirits in prison.
- [72:05]
Megan
It's first Peter 3.
- [72:07]
Top Lobster
First. Yeah.
- [72:09]
Megan
And then 1820, I think.
- [72:13]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah.
- [72:14]
Top Lobster
First Peter 3, 1820.
- [72:16]
David Lee Corbo
So. So what does the. The Mormon Church make then of the concept of ghosts? Right? Because if you're. If you're saying there is a place where the dead go, you're either in a spiritual prison or you're in a spiritual paradise. Is. Is it something that the Church. The Mormon Church believes is familiar spirits and that's what people are seeing, or do they have any explanation for what ghostly encounters are?
- [72:39]
Top Lobster
I don't know.
- [72:40]
Megan
Didn't you get arrested for ghost hunting?
- [72:42]
Top Lobster
I did get arrested for ghost hunting.
- [72:44]
David Lee Corbo
And get arrested for ghost hunting by the Roman Church.
- [72:47]
Not Nice Guy
By who?
- [72:48]
Megan
No, no, not by the Church.
- [72:50]
Top Lobster
I was like, no. Why?
- [72:51]
David Lee Corbo
That's kind of cool.
- [72:52]
Top Lobster
Yeah, No, I was. I was. I got arrested for trespassing. They tried to say I was doing something niggerish like steal the copper wires out of the wall or something like that. I was just. I was just there to ghost hunt.
- [73:04]
Megan
I don't know if the church has an official stance on ghosts, but we do believe the angels are either pre or poor, pre or postborn. People like spirits.
- [73:12]
Not Nice Guy
Right, Right. So that's my next question about this guy Maroney, the Angel Moroni. I guess he leads back to a lot of.
- [73:20]
Megan
Yeah, but I like Moroni.
- [73:22]
Not Nice Guy
Sorry. He's Italian.
- [73:24]
Top Lobster
Sounds like a mob boss.
- [73:25]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah. Hey, tell me. Tell me about this.
- [73:28]
David Lee Corbo
I don't know what that is.
- [73:30]
Not Nice Guy
Moroni. How dare you?
- [73:32]
David Lee Corbo
It's macaroni.
- [73:33]
Megan
Moroni is the son of Mormon. He. He is the person that compiles all of the books. Together that have been passed down through the generations. Because one of the things that the people do is they keep a record so that they can pass on their both familial heritage, genealogy stuff, and then also, like, the inspiration from God.
- [73:53]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah. The words of the prophets and everything. So, like, the Book of Mormon isn't just one book. It's actually a compilation of many books. And so you have two parts to the Book of Mormon. You have what they call the small place and then the large plates. The small plates, if I'm not mistaken, are like Nephi and Lehi. They came to America and his children, and then there's like an abridgment. So I think it's Mormon. That's why it's called the Book of Mormons, because Mormon is the one who took the plates and abridged everything, you know, shortened it, kept all the important stuff, and compiled like the plates for Joseph Smith in the. In the future.
- [74:32]
Megan
Yeah. And then the war between the Lamanites and the Nephites were essentially like the main peoples. They were essentially brothers. And then generations later, there are these groups that hate each other and they ascent. They ended up killing each other. So the Lamanites killed off all of the Nephites, and Moroni would have been the last or one of the last Nephites. And so it was his job to carry forth the record and then to keep it safe. And then he was the one that came back to Joseph Smith and said, okay, we're gonna finish this work.
- [75:01]
Not Nice Guy
Okay, Moroni came back. So you guys think that people in this waiting place could also come back as angels? Or is this. Is this just specific to this one guy because he was some sort of.
- [75:11]
Megan
A. Oh, no, we definitely believe people can come as angels. I mean, Gabriel comes to Mary and.
- [75:17]
Not Nice Guy
No, I mean. I mean, like people like human beings who then pass on could be resurrected as an angel, as an Elohim.
- [75:24]
Top Lobster
Well, that's pre resurrection, so. Because they don't have a physical body, because the judgment day hasn't happened yet. So it's their. I guess it would be like an edified spirit or. I mean, I don't know how to necessarily, like, frame it, but yeah, there'd be the people who would be in paradise, who lived righteously, who did the Lord's work.
- [75:46]
Not Nice Guy
So basically. So that guy, the angel Moroni, he is man, but not. But like. Like representing himself as a. Like this edified spiritual entity. Or is he an angel? Because I've heard that he's an angel. That this is. I'M trying to.
- [76:01]
Megan
Well, how are you defining angel?
- [76:03]
Top Lobster
Yeah, I was just gonna say because.
- [76:05]
David Lee Corbo
Angel in my mind is Elohim. No, like a high ranking spiritual entity.
- [76:10]
Not Nice Guy
Something that was created before humanity that's created directly by God doesn't really have free will. That would. That's what I classify as an angel.
- [76:19]
Megan
Okay.
- [76:20]
Top Lobster
We don't think it's that way. Yeah.
- [76:22]
David Lee Corbo
Okay.
- [76:22]
Not Nice Guy
How do you.
- [76:22]
David Lee Corbo
So what do you look at them as? Messages?
- [76:24]
Top Lobster
Angels are the spirit, like the spirits of man that were righteous effectively.
- [76:31]
David Lee Corbo
How do you, how does, does Mormonism.
- [76:33]
Top Lobster
Yeah, well, yeah, more like a saint. Yeah. Huh.
- [76:37]
David Lee Corbo
How does Mormonism come to that conclusion?
- [76:41]
Top Lobster
How do we come to that conclusion? It's a good question.
- [76:46]
Megan
Let me look it up. I don't want to misspeak.
- [76:49]
Top Lobster
Well, while, while I don't, I don't, I don't know enough about that particular.
- [76:53]
David Lee Corbo
Well, while she checks that out, I do want to say that that idea of being here before is, is, is really stuck with me existing before you had a physical body. That's something that a lot of people do.
- [77:07]
Not Nice Guy
Sorry, David. Do Mormons. Does Mormonism. Like discredit or discard the Book of Enoch, the Book of Jasher, like these two, specifically because they are mentioned in the Bible in this?
- [77:19]
Megan
No, not at all.
- [77:20]
Not Nice Guy
No.
- [77:20]
Megan
Well, like we don't believe that all of the apocrypha is 100 true. Like even in the Book of Mormon it says if there be errors, they're the heirs of men, not the heirs of God. And what they're finding, which is pretty freaking awesome, is that a lot of the stuff in the Apocrypha or the apocryphal texts align with the Book of Mormon, but it's missing in the Bible. So it talks about like how the Messiah was prophesied of. It even says like, you've stoned my prophets, you've killed them. But then it doesn't give the examples. It talks about, about they stone false prophets, but it doesn't show where they actually were stoning the prophets that were prophesying of the Messiah. Do you know what I mean? So like these things were taken out. And so it shows the apocryphal text and the Book of Mormon have like a common ancestor where they're getting more information that we may not have yet.
- [78:02]
Top Lobster
Always wondered that too, because like Jesus said, it's like, oh, you stoned the prophets, you didn't listen to them, you persecuted them. And then you go and read the Old Testament and you're like, where's that? Like where's that present? Like, they don't, they don't talk about that. I mean, Jeremiah was like arrested a bunch of times, but he wasn't stoned.
- [78:17]
Megan
He was put in stocks. Right? He was never.
- [78:18]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [78:21]
David Lee Corbo
Well, just going back to what I was saying before about this idea of being, you know, existing in some way, shape or form before you have a physical body and there's scripture to back that up. That's something that resonates with me, but it also resonates with a lot of other people, like even within the New Age movement or somebody that isn't necessarily adhering to some denomination of Christianity or something like that. You see that sentiment espoused. So it's, it's a common theme from, from strict religious doctrine to New Age gnostic practices. And, and you know, just because it resonates with them or it's part of their narrative doesn't mean that it is inherently bad. Right? Because oftentimes these, these New Age or these Gnostic principles are, like we said before, just inversions of, of God's principles and God's laws. But it's something that even strikes me as I feel, and I don't know how to I into it or in, in, you know, in my heart, on some level feel like, yeah, we chose to be here during this time. That specifically is something that really resonates me with me, that we chose to be here in this time, during these days before we were ever put here.
- [79:28]
Top Lobster
Right. Because like, if we truly have free will, then we're not here against our will. What a lot of people like to. A lot of people like to say is like, why, no, I didn't ask to be born. It's like, well, we believe you did.
- [79:42]
Megan
We kind of answer that problem of suffering, aren't you? In a couple ways. Not just that we believe that God is omniscient, omnipotent, but not just that he can do all things, but he can do all things that are possible to do. So like, there's an eternal law that exists outside of God and he is God because he is the fullest truth, goodness, all of those things. But that. Joanna?
- [80:03]
Top Lobster
Yeah, well, I've been thinking about this a lot lately because that be considered blasphemy to a lot of people, like, oh, you're saying God can. But like, people like to ask the question, like, can God create a stone so heavy that even he can't move it? And I'd go, no, that's nonsense. And like God, if God is truth, then he can't Behave in a way that's nonsensical.
- [80:23]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. That almost feels like a, a gay debate tactic. What is it?
- [80:27]
Top Lobster
It's usually like an atheist tactic.
- [80:29]
Megan
The absurdity.
- [80:30]
Top Lobster
Yes, the absurdity. But like God isn't a God of absurdity. And so like, well, does that mean that he can't do absurd things? Well, I would say he can't do absurd things. I mean it may seem absurd to us without like an understanding, but like he would, he would cease to be God if he ceased to be truth.
- [80:48]
David Lee Corbo
Right.
- [80:49]
Top Lobster
And like nonsense isn't truth. And so like there are a lot of things like that. Like I don't think God can do evil and still be God.
- [80:57]
David Lee Corbo
Right. But we can misconstrued something and, and determine that it was evil. But in our limited information or right to grasp a concept.
- [81:05]
Top Lobster
Like those are the things that I think are like the actual mysteries. I don't think like, like God is, is a mystery of like who he is. Like he's our father, he loves us unconditionally. Like he has this plan for us. He gave his son like that. That says a lot about him. I think the mysteries would be like, well, we don't necessarily know how he heals the sick or how he, you know, create the world.
- [81:26]
David Lee Corbo
There's some things that we're not supposed to know. Right. There's a reason that we forget. Like if we truly did choose to be here. Well, in order for us to develop or, or be able to actually choose God, we have to forget all of that stuff. Right. And so I could see that a lot of things would be purposely obfuscated for us, for our development and also so that we can make an actual decision based in free will. Because if you know too much about the nature of this reality, then that kind of removes your ability to come to your own decisions.
- [81:54]
Top Lobster
You can't have faith if you know something.
- [81:56]
David Lee Corbo
Exactly.
- [81:57]
Top Lobster
And like this is actually something that we believe that might be different than other people's. Like one, we believe that in the premortal existence when we came here to earth, we passed through the veil. This is why we don't have a memory of all the things that happened before. I was about to say something else.
- [82:13]
David Lee Corbo
Well, when you, while you think of that, I just want to say that I almost, almost want to jump to believing that we were here or we were, we did exist before we were here. Because when you're a child especially. Well, I know when I was a child, but this isn't unique to me. Whenever you get like, let's say you get grounded by your parents, right? And. And you start throwing your little hissy fit, and it always manages to escape. I don't know anybody. That this hasn't escaped their lips at some point or at least crossed their mind when they were a child is like, I didn't even ask to be born. This isn't fair. Like, that kind of. And like, that is the. The thinking of a. Of a naive child. And so, you know, there was a video that I was watching where a guy was defending. He was. He was talking to Jake Paul, and Jake Paul's talking about like, oh, well, you were born one way and somebody else who's gay was born another way. And therefore, like, what? God made them that way, just the way that he made you. And then the guy goes, actually, no, shut up, stupid there. When I was a child, I smashed my friend in the face with a. A metal fire truck because he wouldn't share with me or was annoying me. So. So my predisposition when God made me, if that's your argument, is one of, like, violence and lashing out and, you know, whatever, just, just. Just childlike behavior. And then we're. We're called to elevate above that and to choose God over our own sin. And so, you know, much of what we. Or how we behave as children is, you know, our natural state. Right? Everybody's like, it's natural. It's good. It's our natural state to be like that. And then we work from that point to become better. So it just strikes me as significant that while we're in that perceived natural state, we're bitching and moaning about like, I didn't even ask to be born. Which is hilarious, because if the answer to that truly was, yes, you did, you dummy, then that is incredible. I love that.
- [84:05]
Top Lobster
Well, and also it's, you know, we're spiritual beings having a physical experience, not physical beings having the occasional spiritual experience. It's like, like, I think that changes perspective in a lot of ways for a lot of people.
- [84:17]
David Lee Corbo
Yes. Yeah.
- [84:19]
Megan
Someone pull up Revelations 12:7.
- [84:22]
David Lee Corbo
12:7.
- [84:23]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's about the. The angel part, right? While you're pulling that up, I also wanted to say the thing I was going to say earlier was that we. We don't think that, like, hell. We think outer darkness and hell are different. And so not a lot of people that we know of are probably going to outer darkness because that would require to commit the unforgivable sin, which is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which we Believe would be like if Joseph Smith had this. Actually had this vision and God and Jesus appeared to him and then he went, nah, not for me, bro. Well, he didn't have faith. He had knowledge and he rejected the knowledge. So that was like an active choice of rebellion. And that would. That would be like the preconditions to be going to outer darkness.
- [85:10]
Megan
Which you could talk about the witnesses of the golden plates and how they never denied or recanted their testimonies, even putting it on their tombstones, even after they left, like the official church, they never took it back.
- [85:21]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [85:21]
Top Lobster
There are eight witnesses to the place. There were four witnesses to angels. They're all documented.
- [85:28]
David Lee Corbo
And who. Who are these witnesses? Do they end up holding a high place in the Mormon Church?
- [85:33]
Top Lobster
Most of them walked away, but still admitted it.
- [85:36]
Megan
The witness testimony is in the beginning of that book that Not Nice Guy gave you. You can read the testimony.
- [85:42]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, oh, oh, the. Is that in the Book of Mormon?
- [85:45]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [85:48]
David Lee Corbo
I mean, you don't have to.
- [85:48]
Megan
Read the whole thing.
- [85:50]
David Lee Corbo
Testimony of the three witnesses. A testimony of the eight witnesses? Yep. It says, be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people unto whom this work shall come, that we, through the grace of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi. That's interesting. Also. It's just like the root word, right? And also of the Lamanites, Lamanites. Lamanites, Lamanites, Lamanites. They ever that up three times in a row, huh? Their brethren. And also of the Smith, the people of Jared, who came to the tower of which hath been spoken. Man, this is a fucking. So what are they? Who are these people? And. And what ends up happening to them? This is Oliver Cowder.
- [86:36]
Top Lobster
Cowdery, Martin Harris and David Whitmer.
- [86:39]
Megan
And then the other translate the record.
- [86:42]
David Lee Corbo
The record being the tablets?
- [86:44]
Megan
Yeah. The book you're holding? Yep.
- [86:46]
David Lee Corbo
So what?
- [86:47]
Megan
It's funny, a lot of the people that were coming after Joseph at the time, they didn't deny that he had the gold plates. They wanted them for himself because they thought the treasure was the gold itself and not what was contained on it.
- [86:57]
David Lee Corbo
Right, right. What, what, what language was it written in that would it have been like an Enochian, like an angelic language?
- [87:06]
Megan
I think it was a form of Egyptian, like reformed Egyptian.
- [87:11]
David Lee Corbo
Interesting.
- [87:11]
Megan
Maybe because at the time that Nephi's family left Jerusalem. Never mind, I'm speculating. I don't know.
- [87:21]
David Lee Corbo
Interesting, interesting what? What happened to the Plates, they were taken back?
- [87:27]
Megan
Yeah, we believe the angel took them back, which I know is such like a. It'd be so easy, you know, if.
- [87:32]
David Lee Corbo
If they, if spiritual beings bought these, then. Spiritual. That's not really. That doesn't concern me at all. I just wonder, like, what does the. What's the church's stance on what happened to the plates? Is there an official narrative?
- [87:45]
Megan
Yeah. That they were taken back?
- [87:46]
Top Lobster
Yeah, they were. They were taken back.
- [87:48]
David Lee Corbo
And why would they have been taken back? Do you know?
- [87:52]
Top Lobster
I could speculate. I don't know. I think the speculation would be because even if we had the gold plates we showed people, it's not going to make people believe they'll see the gold plates in and they'll be like, well, it could be. It could say anything on these places. And then you could have other people come and translate it through the knowledge of men. And then they could be like, well, that's not what the, the book says. And so, like, there's also a part of the, of the place that we're sealed that we still don't have that.
- [88:20]
Megan
Martin Harris lost 116 pages.
- [88:22]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Yeah.
- [88:26]
Megan
Well, he begged. He wanted to show them to his wife, and he begged Joseph Smith over and over and over again. And Joseph Smith went to God and God said no. And then he kept being bothered. So eventually God was like, okay, do what you're going to do. And so he gave them the, The. Those pages and then they were lost. And then he was. He wasn't able to translate. He lost all his gifts and he felt like he was going to be damned to hell and had to, like, really repent.
- [88:50]
Top Lobster
And like, he went a long time without. Yeah, yeah.
- [88:53]
David Lee Corbo
I. I went ahead and asked the. The demonic spirits that inhabit AI, why did the angels take back the golden tablets? It says, according to the Latter Day Saint faith, the angel Moroni took back the golden eye. I'm sorry, it looks like macaroni. It looks like, phonetically, it looks like the word macaroni. My mistake. Golden plates from Joseph Smith after he translated them. Because the plates were a sacred record meant to be used for the translation and not kept permanently and to ensure their protection from those who might try to misuse them for worldly gain. Okay, so that kind of. It's interesting because it seems like they. They bought you. They're like, hey, this is ours, but you could fucking translate it. But as soon as you're done, we're taking the shit back.
- [89:36]
Top Lobster
Taking it back. Yeah.
- [89:37]
Not Nice Guy
Can I.
- [89:37]
Megan
Can I. Let me ask you a question. Go ahead.
- [89:41]
Not Nice Guy
All right. Yeah. Just real, real quick, put a pin in that. Not nice Guy. How does the Mormon Church feel about you listening to our show, to this show, or at least being a fan of it? And it's not. It's not necessarily what we. We. We obviously brush the lines and touch the third rail a little bit, but that's like, that's nonsense in my opinion, compared to the things that we're talking about and what we possibly do believe. So one of the major departures would be this idea of the fallen angels and things like that. So what?
- [90:09]
Top Lobster
Yeah, I don't advertise that. I watch this. So. So I don't know exactly what they would tell me, but, I mean, they respect my agency and they caution people to avoid certain topics and speculations because, like, a lot of times those things can be pathways to, like, apostasy, to losing your faith.
- [90:28]
Megan
Not ask questions.
- [90:30]
Top Lobster
Yeah, not to ask questions. It's not like I'd be damned. Like, I'm not a member in good standing as is. So.
- [90:36]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. What's going on there? What did you do?
- [90:38]
Megan
What did you do?
- [90:39]
Not Nice Guy
Kicked out.
- [90:41]
Top Lobster
Kicked out. Adultery, Premarital relations.
- [90:45]
David Lee Corbo
Is that why?
- [90:46]
Top Lobster
That's. That's why. Yeah. Yeah.
- [90:50]
Not Nice Guy
You can keep it in my getting pushed. All right.
- [90:55]
David Lee Corbo
How do you get back into the, The.
- [90:56]
Not Nice Guy
The.
- [90:57]
David Lee Corbo
The church like, to get back into good standings at least?
- [90:59]
Top Lobster
Well, I'd have to go like, a period of time without engaging in those activities and, you know, repent. So most repentance can be done, you know, through prayer and. And, you know, personally. But like, the greater sins, like adultery and stuff involves like, a confession to your bishop. So this is what I did. I confessed to my bishop. I told him what I'd been doing. I'm not worthy to hold the priesthood, take the sacrament, things like that. And so they, you know, they hold a council, they say, okay, well, you still want to actually be here? I'm like, yeah, why? Well, then, you know, here's. Here's like some. Some restrictions until you can. You can get yourself straight.
- [91:40]
David Lee Corbo
So there's a path to redemption. I would hope so, because that's obviously the, the massive overarching theme in, In Christianity is redemption. So.
- [91:49]
Top Lobster
Right. You know, if that's abstain from the sin, which is. Which I'm not doing still, because I'm. I'm engaged. And before I'd start. Started going back to church and being faithful again, I was already kind of like, engaged with her. So once we get married, you know, I'll go back to the Bishop and say, hey, you know, we're not, we're not adult adulterating or not fornicating anymore. We're married. Yeah.
- [92:12]
Not Nice Guy
And then you still go, you still go there weekly? I suppose.
- [92:15]
Top Lobster
Yeah. Yeah.
- [92:17]
Not Nice Guy
Okay. It actually makes, Listen, it makes a lot of sense. I think it's. No, it's true. Like, especially what we've heard from Ed Babry, who I'm sure you disagree with a lot, but I actually agree with.
- [92:29]
Top Lobster
Him a lot more. Like, I don't know if he knows this, but there are so many doctrines and things that he talks about.
- [92:34]
David Lee Corbo
He did it last time.
- [92:35]
Top Lobster
I only hear Mormons talk about. And so, yeah, like, sometimes I feel like, oh, dude, you're so close. You're so close to.
- [92:41]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah. Something. Last time that somebody was like, that's, that's straight out of Mormonism. And I was like, that must be nice guy. Must be punching the air. Yeah.
- [92:48]
Top Lobster
His, his idea of eternal progression really stood out to me.
- [92:51]
David Lee Corbo
There you go. Eternal progression was the one. There you go.
- [92:53]
Not Nice Guy
Well, I mean, the main, the main focus I'm talking about here is the idea of fornication being this, like, spiritual act.
- [93:00]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah.
- [93:00]
Not Nice Guy
And yeah, marriage, it's akin to marriage if you're doing it before marriage, whether, I mean, I don't know. I guess marriage is through the state now.
- [93:09]
Top Lobster
I actually don't know if I disagree with him. I've been, I've been actually contemplating that. I've been pondering that a lot. And actually he makes a lot of sense. So I, I, I think it makes sense also that there would be, like, for instance, in my case where I'm not in good standing. Like, there would have to be a time where I've shown that I've repented, where, you know, I'd be washed clean of, of the sin of adultery or fornication, that of that marriage.
- [93:33]
Not Nice Guy
Technically, he'd say that you are married. Like, once you engage in that act with a woman, you are now married and joined to her. But now, I guess, you know, through the state or, or the, at least, like, the legal bonding that you've made with her with your mouth. You haven't done that just yet. So that's the, that's right. I get why a church, the church should be, like, against these. Even though, listen, I participated in it for a while as well, and they told me, and I told them to go themselves because I'm still going to do what I'm going to do.
- [94:00]
David Lee Corbo
But I know where it strikes me as significant when Ed Mabry says that There is no separation between sex and marriage. The act of, of sex is a spiritual marriage. Well, to back that up, we're now getting articles over these past, like two years about how, you know, women who have sexual partners, that genetic material stays inside them for it changes them forever. And if this is really, truly about genetics, right, whether it's the serpent seed or, you know, this, this genetic lineage, that genetic lineage, obviously your DNA plays a massive role. It's kind of almost a central component to this. And, and so that would, that would make sense that where you look at that one thing and you just go like, oh, that's gross. And it's kind of a joke, right? Like, oh, women are. And men too. You're retaining this genetic material from past sexual encounters. Well, if the spiritual was tied into the genetic, then yeah, there's your answer. I guess he's right.
- [95:00]
Not Nice Guy
Where does the Mormon Church fall on that? The, the serpent seed and the idea of what we talk about on the show, the nephilim, the, you know, tainted lines.
- [95:11]
Top Lobster
Well, I mean, I would, I would hesitate to say that we really have a doctrine about them at all other than they existed. The LDS Church has this way of, like, we look at things from like a positive light. So like, if it's not going, if it's not vital to our salvation, if it's not Christ focused, if it's not important to the plan of salvation, then why are we wasting our time with it? So they kind of have this, this idea of like, well, it's not, it's not really important because it's not going to help you get closer to God knowing all these things. It's not going to help you, you know, be redeemed through, through his sacrifice. It's not going to help you get back to Heavenly Father. So like, why do, why would, why do we care?
- [95:53]
Not Nice Guy
I think that's kind of, I think we have, we've built a pretty compelling body of evidence here that it does in some form or fashion.
- [95:59]
Megan
When I look it up, it goes to giants and then that lists all the scriptures that are related.
- [96:04]
David Lee Corbo
So it does talk about them.
- [96:05]
Megan
Website.
- [96:06]
Not Nice Guy
What do you have an app there? You have like a Mormon app?
- [96:08]
David Lee Corbo
Hell yeah.
- [96:09]
Top Lobster
The Gospel library app. It's actually really good. It's really good.
- [96:13]
David Lee Corbo
Let me ask you this because we're coming in, it's now an hour and 40 minutes. What does one have to believe in order to be Mormon or to find themselves classified as that? I mean, I know obviously adhering to a Mormon church and I imagine getting baptized or something like that in a Mormon church is a prerequisite. But as far as the beliefs, the ideas about the greater picture, what are some of those?
- [96:39]
Megan
That's like an article of faith 11 thing. Do you know what I'm talking about?
- [96:44]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah. Well, we have articles of faith and then we have, like, the baptismal questions. Let's see if I can pull them up here. I don't want to miss any.
- [96:53]
David Lee Corbo
Because within Christianity, it. It's, it's, you know, the belief in. In the, the death and the resurrection of Jesus Christ and that he came and died for your sins. And so that's like, fundamental. If you believe that, then generally speaking, it seems you can identify yourself as a Christian. But in order to go a step further and adhere to a certain denomination, that's when things get a little bit more logistical. You have to have a couple of other key beliefs to fall one place or the other.
- [97:21]
Top Lobster
Yeah. So they ask you questions. They ask you, do you believe that God is our eternal Father? Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Savior and redeemer of the world? Do you believe that Jesus. That the church and gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored through the prophet Joseph Smith? And do you believe that the current church president is a prophet of God? What does that mean to you? What does it mean to you to repent? Do you feel that you have repented of your past sins? Have you committed a more serious crime? If so, are you now on probation or parole? You have been taught the membership of Jesus Christ Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints includes the living gospel standards. Do you understand about the following standards? Are you willing to obey them? The law of chastity, which prohibits sexual relations outside the bonds of legal marriage between a man and a woman. The law of tithing, the word of wisdom, keeping the Sabbath day holy, including partaking of the sacrament weekly and rendering service to others. When you are baptized, you covenant with God that you are willing to take upon yourself the name of Christ and keep his commandments throughout your life. Are you ready to make this covenant and strive to be faithful to it?
- [98:22]
David Lee Corbo
Interesting. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
- [98:25]
Top Lobster
So, like, those are the. Those are the questions that they ask you.
- [98:31]
David Lee Corbo
So it seems the major deviation is, is. Do you believe that the church was essentially restored through Joseph Smith?
- [98:38]
Top Lobster
Yeah. And do you believe that, like, God still uses prophets?
- [98:42]
David Lee Corbo
Interesting, man. I mean, what you're laying out there is. Is. I don't want to downplay it in the sense of its implications. It's not small, but Otherwise it is a. It's a. It's almost a minor detail, not in its spiritual implications, but in its deviation. It's kind of this one thing.
- [99:02]
Top Lobster
It's like this one thing. Yeah.
- [99:04]
Megan
We also believe we have articles of faith. There's 13. And number 11 is we claim the privilege of worshiping almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege. Let them worship how, where, or what they may. So a lot of the like details, the whole point of this gospel is that it's an individual conversion. So like the prophet leads the global church. There's like 17 million members across however many countries. And so they keep the ecclesia ecclesiastical stuff together. But as far as individual conversion, it is a personal thing. So like in the temple we learn essentially like we are all Adam, we are all leaving, you know, leaving the garden, going out into the world, learning of our own and trying to come back to God. Or Joseph Smith, like going out and praying for ourselves and then figuring out what truth we can come to.
- [99:48]
David Lee Corbo
Hmm, interesting that. So as somebody who's not super immersed in all the different denominations in the. And the sort of. The caveats or the nuances, I don't look at that as, as it's like what we have in common. That you worship and serve the Father God, that you believe that Jesus Christ came and, and died for our sins and gave us salvation. I mean that kind of thing is, I guess. I guess other denominations would. Would claim that it's not blasphemous but heretical, I guess to deviate in such a way as to. So the main point of contention is that Joseph Smith is where the true church lies.
- [100:33]
Megan
Well, Jesus through just like he restored it, but it's not. We don't worship Joseph. We don't think that.
- [100:39]
David Lee Corbo
Do you guys pray to him? No.
- [100:42]
Not Nice Guy
Okay. That's. That was a one that comes up as well, that there is that you guys do worship Joseph. Joseph Smith.
- [100:48]
Top Lobster
So that's not true definitively. No, we do not.
- [100:53]
Megan
Everything we do called praise to the man which says praise to the man who communed with Jehovah. So people will take offense with that. But like we don't worship praise to.
- [101:03]
David Lee Corbo
The man who communed with Jehovah. So what if we applied that to somebody else? One of the. One of the apostles, perhaps?
- [101:13]
Megan
Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't say give them honor and glory, but like be grateful for their role.
- [101:18]
Top Lobster
Yes.
- [101:19]
David Lee Corbo
That becomes a definition issue. Right. What is praise like, so, so we get into the weeds on this Sometime, too, because there's a fine line between, like, veneration and worship. Right. So Catholicism ends up having this little bit of a slipping point, it seems. I. I would identify it as a chink in the armor. Right. Where if something dark seeks to subvert your movement or your church, then they might do so by looking where there's holes in your game. So veneration, as in respect to the saints, is totally understandable. Worship is not intended for saints. It's not intended for angels. It's intended for. For the Lord our Father. Right. So is praise the same thing as worship? No, no, no, it's probably not. Right. Because you could praise a child who's done well in school.
- [102:07]
Top Lobster
I praise you guys for your shows all the time.
- [102:10]
David Lee Corbo
Right, right, right, right. So, I mean, I don't know if that's truly the nature of the position of Joseph Smith within the churches. Is praise be to him who, you know, communed with?
- [102:23]
Megan
Well, I mean, we wouldn't even say that. It's literally just a song, and in the song, he's a man, and then the emphasis is who communed with Jehovah. It's all about ushering back in.
- [102:33]
Top Lobster
This is something I always wonder is like. Because a lot of people say, oh, you're not Christian. And I always want to ask. I kind of want to ask people.
- [102:41]
David Lee Corbo
Like, what makes a Christian?
- [102:43]
Top Lobster
Well, like, what makes it. Like, if you ask Grok what you know based on the Bible or orm is Christian, they'll say yes. And if you ask it if Mormons are Christian, just generally speaking, they'll be like, no, because they don't believe in the Trinity. But, like, what's. It's more of, like, the conversion aspect of it. I think a lot of people who follow these churches, they do it because someone told them or because the Bible told them they don't have, like, a personal witness or a personal testimony of Jesus Christ. And so, like, I feel like that's where we kind of stand apart, is that we encourage everyone. Even if the prophet comes out and says, take the vaccine, which they did. And it bothered me, like, well, he.
- [103:19]
Megan
Said, I urge you. Yeah, for me too.
- [103:23]
David Lee Corbo
You would have found representatives in any denomination that did that.
- [103:26]
Top Lobster
Right, right. But, like, I'm. But in. In my faith, we still have, like, personal revelation. I can still go to God, have with my personal relationship that I've garnered with him, and ask him, is this true? And we're. We're not told to believe everything the prophet says blindly. We are always encouraged to ask God Ourself and. And learn whether or not they're true through our own personal spiritual experience with Heavenly Father. Whereas a lot of people, that would be actually considered blasphemous because if you don't just align with, like the Catholic Church and everything that they say in the creeds, well, then you're a heretic, which is what we're called all the time, because we don't align. Align with them. And so, like, I always wanted, like, so what's more important, your personal revelation and relationship with God or blindly following this church institution? And I think that even though we are a big church institution, we don't blindly follow it. I'm sure there are people that do, especially in Utah, the Utah Mormons. That's what leads to sometimes.
- [104:25]
Megan
But the failure of, like, when you blindly follow it, you have nothing to stand on.
- [104:30]
Not Nice Guy
That's why.
- [104:30]
Megan
And it's so easily let down.
- [104:32]
Not Nice Guy
Yeah. So I guess two questions here. Okay.
- [104:36]
Megan
And I want to get back to angels so that.
- [104:39]
David Lee Corbo
Oh, right, because we never. We didn't get our answer wrong.
- [104:41]
Not Nice Guy
Go ahead, wrap up, wrap up the angels because we're coming at up to time here anyway.
- [104:45]
Megan
Okay, so that scripture, I think it was Revelations 12, 7. It talked about there was a war in heaven and Michael. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon we would consider to be Satan. And then it says dragon fought and wait, and the dragon fought and his angels. So biblically, then it sounds like they would be spirits and that the devil has what he would call angels, too.
- [105:10]
David Lee Corbo
So I would identify that as the difference between angels that are still in alignment with God the Father and angels that have fallen.
- [105:19]
Megan
Yeah. Yeah, that would be correct. So what we consider angels of God could be people that were either transfigured, resurrected, translated, or not born yet.
- [105:29]
David Lee Corbo
Interesting.
- [105:30]
Not Nice Guy
Okay, so slight deviation. Okay.
- [105:33]
Top Lobster
We think that Adam is the archangel Michael. That was. That was Revelation through Joseph Smith, too.
- [105:38]
Megan
That the archangels were the prophets of the dispensations.
- [105:42]
David Lee Corbo
So to. I mean, that sounds wild, but only if you are somebody who's been, you know, in one denomination or the other. So to me, I go like, okay, I mean, I don't have any information. That doesn't hurt me at all. I don't go like. And, and to be honest, when it comes to the whole Trinity thing, even, it sounds like, you know, it's really semantics that are being argued here. Right. Is this one cohesive being, or is it three separate beings? Or is it three slightly overlapping but mostly separate beings? You know, like. And that is to, to die on that hill. Maybe there are Christians out there that would get upset with me for saying that, but to die on that hill is like. Well, I'm not sure that I'm prepared to, to die. I literally have a trinity tattooed on myself. It was like this weird compulsion when I was a kid to get it tattooed on myself. And I don't, you know, you would think, if any, that I might have some, some string or some stringent beliefs on it. I, I don't, I can kind of see. So, so even in that deviation, it feels like semantics.
- [106:50]
Megan
You know, that sounds like humility, which is such a strength for finding truth. Like you can't find truth if you think you already have it.
- [106:55]
David Lee Corbo
Right, right. And that's why I love you guys.
- [106:59]
Top Lobster
By the way, because you guys are humble and open and you let people cook and.
- [107:04]
David Lee Corbo
Well, yeah, I mean, I got, because I'm retarded. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Like, you know, I, I care about this greatly and I, I, I want to understand it. And I recognize that that's going to be a long process and in order for me to come to any conclusion, I have to first see the evidence. So, yeah, I'm on a, it's a long journey for me. I'm 34 years old. I'm still gonna go through it probably till I die. But you know, like, I see somebody in the, in the chat said it's not semantics, it's literally the nature of the one true God. Right? Well, it's semantics in, in the, in the sense that you're not arguing about, is there one true God you're not arguing about is Jesus Christ the way, the truth and the life and, and the way to God. You're not arguing about those things. You're arguing about these details. And these details are like you're trying to understand the nature of a being that trends, transcends physical time and space. And that's where the semantics argument comes in, because we can't really know that. I mean, you could, you could know if you mix it with information and faith. And that's a form of, of knowledge or knowing. But short of experiencing it, that's the best that you're gonna do. And so, yeah, I, I just think three dimensional creatures trying to understand, I don't know, 4, 5, 6, 7. If you believe in quantum physicists who tell you there's 11 dimensions, maybe, okay, fine, three dimensional beings trying to understand 11 dimensional beings, like, good luck.
- [108:26]
Top Lobster
It's like my major Contention. If you ask like a Latter Day Saint, you know, do they worship one true God? And we'll be like, yes. And they go, who? We'll say God the Father. If you ask a Catholic if they worship the one true God, they'll be like, yes. And they'll be like, you'll be like, who? And they'll be like, God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. And I just feel like there, like the logical consistency isn't there. And I think that like we have logic for a reason. I think God is a rational being. I don't think he, he like behaves nonsensically. I don't think he like acts in absurdity. And so when I hear that I go, well, that seems absurd. I don't think God works that way.
- [109:02]
David Lee Corbo
Well, that, that's the thing too. And I know we have to bring it in for a landing, but I just want to say it's like God is a, what was the expression that you used? Not logistical, but a rational God. Right? And it's like if you look at our realm and you want to talk about logistics and rational, you know, thinking, you go, well, things are made up on a molecular level. You know, atoms and protons and electrons and neutrons and there's electrical synapses happening between one to the other to communicate in this way. And you know, mass and density and all these different things, that's the building blocks to this. Okay, tell me how the fucking fifth dimension works then. What is it made of? So, you know, we're trying to attribute a logical understanding and a definition to something that we don't even understand how the building blocks outside of this realm work.
- [109:47]
Top Lobster
But I think it can be understood. I don't think that, I think it can be outside the realm of be, of being understandable. And that's kind of where like, I think the disagreement is, is like, well, it's like, okay, I may not understand it now in this like fleshy three dimensional being that I am, but I think it is understandable. And I think like, we can continue to learn more and find the truth through seeking. And I'm not just going to throw my hands, well, it's a mystery. And then just go along with it.
- [110:11]
David Lee Corbo
I do think though that there's room for like, I use the analogy the other day of like, if we truly are in a flat stationary plane and there's a firmament over it and you, you can understand so much, but if God has made it so that you cannot leave this firmament, well then you simply cannot gather the data that is outside of it. And so if there ever comes a time, you know, in our experience where we can see what's outside of that, well, then, yeah, there is data collect and there are things to understand. But right now, I think for our development and for our. Our faith and everything else, there's a wall that we can only get up to and we can kind of maybe see a little bit through, but it's kind of foggy. But unlike what's beyond that wall here, where we are, we can look at the building blocks.
- [110:54]
Top Lobster
I think that's why we have prophets, because the prophets are the way of breaking through, that to receive revelation, to receive new information that can't be given to us in any other way. So, like, that's why I, I kind of put my, my.
- [111:06]
David Lee Corbo
I like behind the fact that there are prophets given to us. Right? It's like God's like, no, you. This is literally as it passes through this veil. You guys talked about, like the veil before that you might pass through on the way here and forget it distills. And I. This is all I can bring you in this realm. Maybe when you're outside of it, we can talk. But for now, this is what you got.
- [111:25]
Top Lobster
And I'm excited to learn more when I die. Like, that's something I'm excited about.
- [111:29]
Not Nice Guy
One more question, last question. Not, not really pertaining to the church, but why do you guys have a mountain with everyone's DNA in it? What's going on?
- [111:36]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, what you guys doing with that DNA, huh?
- [111:38]
Top Lobster
Where else you going to keep it?
- [111:39]
David Lee Corbo
Ivf, that's what's happening.
- [111:42]
Top Lobster
Where else keep it, huh?
- [111:49]
David Lee Corbo
You guys do have.
- [111:50]
Megan
I mean, I don't know that it's the church that officially owns it, but like genealogy, there's a lot of people doing their DNA. Well, and for example, my. I don't want to give all his information away, but like, my husband didn't know who his father was, and then he did the DNA test and then he. We were able to find his father. And then he had a. A lady reach out like a week later, and she's like, hey, I'm your sister. I've been looking for you for years. And we didn't even know she existed. So, like, there are benefits to connecting people.
- [112:16]
Top Lobster
I would, I would say that. And I'm not exactly sure because I look too much into it, but if we do have a mountain full of DNA, it's the same reason why we have. It's the same reason we have like, vaults that have all the seeds and vaults that have all the, you know, like, other important things.
- [112:31]
David Lee Corbo
Because.
- [112:32]
Top Lobster
Because, like, in the last days, we're gonna have, like, this great destruction, you know, and we need to preserve that information. We need to preserve that DNA partially for, like, the purpose of baptisms for the dead in, like, the millennial reign of Jesus. We're going to keep those safe from the destruction that's coming.
- [112:50]
Megan
And so, which I have to clarify what Heidi said about that too. We don't pretend or think that we're other people. We are doing proxy baptism switches for and in behalf of someone else. At no point is it like, okay, you are this person.
- [113:03]
David Lee Corbo
Okay, okay. Interesting. Interesting.
- [113:07]
Megan
Had to know that.
- [113:08]
David Lee Corbo
You could just see how it's alarming.
- [113:10]
Megan
To find out, oh, for sure.
- [113:11]
David Lee Corbo
That the Mormons have a mountain full of semen. It's crazy. It's crazy. I don't understand the logistics.
- [113:16]
Not Nice Guy
The Jews have a tunnel full of. Full of semen. So it's like, you know, I just find it whenever people start collecting DNA. I'm like, very suspicious. Everybody is collecting DNA though. So it's a bit unfair to just be like, why do you guys have your minds?
- [113:30]
David Lee Corbo
Like, well, just because we're interested doesn't mean we're not fans of it. Like, I want to know why you're doing it. But if you want to have a mountain full of DNA, I go, that's kind of crazy and kind of cool.
- [113:39]
Megan
In Utah too, there's a lot of, like, I think Salt Lake used to be, or maybe it still is, like a teaching hospital. And there's a lot of, like, there's a lot of science that LDS members are invested in, which, you know, for better or worse. So.
- [113:53]
David Lee Corbo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, all right. We. We were at the two hour mark. This is a fascinating conversation. I'm glad that we got it done. And. And I don't know what happens, but every time I talk about Mormonism, I just seem to like Mormonism a little bit more than the last episode. So let's bring it in for a landing one more time. Guys, you crush. Tell everybody where they can find Artificial Dissemination hd.
- [114:16]
Top Lobster
Yep. Artificial Dissemination HD on Rumble. I also have a ADHD gaming channel as well. Sundays we do our Latter Day Sunday show. We talk about Mormon shit. And Wednesdays I do a political show where just. I talk about all the faking gay stuff going on.
- [114:32]
Not Nice Guy
All right. And follow him at Anima Amoris. I don't know what this means, but follow him there anyway.
- [114:38]
Top Lobster
Spirit of love for spirit of love.
- [114:40]
Not Nice Guy
That's gay. You should change it. I like, I really do. Like, not nice guy. He's one of my favorite people in.
- [114:45]
David Lee Corbo
The movement and turns out to be a nice guy.
- [114:48]
Not Nice Guy
Turns out. How dare he is a nice guy. So he's a liar as well, which.
- [114:53]
David Lee Corbo
Is why we like him. All right, guys. Well, thank you so much. Thank you.
- [114:56]
Not Nice Guy
Thank you for coming.
- [114:59]
Top Lobster
I would love to continue. I mean, we just barely scratched the surface, so.
- [115:02]
David Lee Corbo
I know. Well, it's a hard thing to get into unpacking an entire religion in one episode, but two hours go. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, you know, it's. It's understandable, but. Yeah, a lot of meat left on the bone, so we'll have to have a conversation again, guys. Top. We got anything else?
- [115:20]
Not Nice Guy
Oh, that's it, man. Don't forget to obey, submit, and comply. We'll see you guys next time. Peace out.
- [115:26]
David Lee Corbo
We are being hypnotized by people like this.
- [115:32]
Top Lobster
News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers.