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Nephilim Death Squad
195: Mysteries of the Meadow w/ Trey Hudson | Nephilim Death Squad
01:54:44
In this episode of Nephilim Death Squad, hosts David Lee Corbo and Top Lobsta are joined by Trey Hudson, a former US Army Intelligence Officer and retired government official, to uncover the mysteries of the Meadow Project, also known as the South...
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- [00:02]
Host 1
Top Lobster Productions.
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Trey Hudson
We are being hypnotized by people like this. News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers.
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Host 1
We are in a country and in.
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Trey Hudson
A world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we're told is.
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Host 2
Going on and what is really going on is absolutely.
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Host 1
Oh yeah, dude, they should not. It's like we all know what's going.
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Trey Hudson
Down, but no one's saying what happens to the home of the Braves. And everybody's just walking around heading the.
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Host 2
Clouds and won't awaken to a dead in the grave. But then it's too late.
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Trey Hudson
We need to be ready to raise up. Welcome to the end of day. Everybody is slave.
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Host 2
Only some are aware that the government releasing poison. And welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation.
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Host 1
Hello.
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Host 2
Before we get into today's guest, a little reminder. Sometime around the 30 minute mark, we're gonna go live exclusively to patreon.com backslash Nephilim Death Squad forward slash. I keep doing that. Huh?
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Host 1
Forward, back. What? They'll find it.
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Host 2
Sideways slash. Nephilim Death Squad go to Patreon. And at the 30 minute mark, when we cut the stream to the patrons only, you can hang out there, enjoy the rest of the episode, enjoy the live chat and also gain access to episodes before they drop to the general public. This one's not going to hit YouTube or anything for about a week, week and a half. So if you want more content, patreon.com is a place for you. Also, when we drop those Bohemian Grove tickets you guys get first, I keep forgetting about that.
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Host 1
But let's get into the show. I'm excited, I'm really excited to get into the guest today, David, introduce him and we'll bring him on stage.
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Host 2
Well, we had a conversation not long ago with, with Wes and he was working on the Meadow project and he. There was a lot that he couldn't say about it because the documentary was going to get released shortly after that interview didn't. Now we have Trey Hudson on the show who has a much more intimate relationship with the things that happen there. But before we get into that discussion, and there's a lot of people that wanted to know more details about the Meadow Project and everything that took place. Couldn't tell him at the time. So very excited to be able to get into that today. But you have some books and I know you're working on a Second one. You have a first one. Where can people find your work?
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Trey Hudson
Yeah, the best place to find my work is, is you. You go to the local liquor store, go in the back alley, look under the cardboard box with the greasy stain coming out from. And I'm under. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. That's right. I am somewhat a sober and reasonable individual, I hope. No, actually the best thing for updates is my Facebook page which is Trey Huts, Trey Hudson author and I post all the updates and everything there. Like you said, I've got, my first book is published. My second book is published and out there. And so we've got the Meadow project documentary which, you know, I really am proud of. A lot of work went into that and the results were, you know, quite astounding. And then you can also go to Trey Hudson research.com and once the meadow project gets wide released, I'm going to start putting some of the, some of the data and you know, videos and you know, all that kind of stuff out there too. So yeah, it's a lot of stuff going on. I'm pretty busy for a retired guy, which is kind of crazy. I'm busier now than I was when I work.
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Host 1
What did you do previously?
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Trey Hudson
I. Yeah. Okay, now all of your audiences are going to kind of freak out when I say this. I retired out of the U. S. Government after 34 years. I started off as a U. S. Army intelligence officer. I rolled into civil service as a security specialist and I was in a intelligence community designated position and I retired as chief of intelligence and security out of one OD's organic industrial bases, OIBs which is like, people don't know this, but the department of Defense has factories where they, they build stuff, you know, huge defense factories. So, you know, that's what I did. And so, you know, I'm that guy, you know, that government guy.
- [04:16]
Host 1
But this is, then this is like right up your alley. Like you retired and kind of went directly into almost the same sort of work. Like, would you consider what you saw at the meadow something that the government would have been interested or possibly is interested for defense capabilities? Things like that? I mean, you know, no supernatural stuff. No.
- [04:34]
Trey Hudson
And it's really, it's really weird because I just, just got asked that question last week is I may or may not have worked in the special program arena, okay, the SAP's. So you know, people can read into that what they wish. And there were things that I worked on where I had very direct support from counterintelligence, special Agents, like I would meet with them monthly, you know, they would come to my office, we'd sit my conference room and we talk, do work stuff and you know, we would chit chat. And I'd mentioned to one of the agents, you know, he just, you know, we were just chit chatting. The guy was a friend of mine and he said, you know, what are you up to? I said, hey, I just, you know, released a book. And he goes, oh, interesting. What's the book about? And I told him there was my first book, the Meadow Project. And he said, that sounds really cool, I'm going to order a copy. So he ordered a copy, he read it next time we met. He's like, hey, could you sign my copy? And that's about the only interest that the government has ever had in this because I was the government guy. And at any time they could have come to me and said, hey Trey, you know, we just want you to give us an after action review of what you're finding and just, you know, or you know, we would like to insert a operative maybe into, into your operation and go out with you just to, you know, kind of see what's going on. But none of that happened. Which is really odd because, you know, the. Ryan Skinner, the guy who actually wrote the book on Skinwalker Ranch, you know, started the whole, you know, Skinwalker Ranch thing, Sherman Ranch thing, actually compares this to Skinwalker Ranch. And in his opinion, you know, this is equally up there as a, you know, a geocentric point of high strangeness. So yeah, no, they don't, they don't seem interested at all.
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Host 1
So you're this, this. Your investigations in the Meadow overlapped with your career a little bit, I guess.
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Trey Hudson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were. I started the Meadow started in 2016. Really. That was the first time we ever really started looking at. There was about 2016 and I retired in 2023.
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Host 1
And I'm sorry, I feel, I. I feel like this is a probing but like, what got you interested in how did it get on your radar at all?
- [06:44]
Trey Hudson
That's a, that's another great question is I started off as a ghost guy, you know, a paranormal researcher. I went to the University of West Georgia. I studied under the famous parapsychologist Dr. William Roll, a very famous guy. And their program out there is humanistic and transpersonal focused. Which is humanistic is the, the state, nature and experience of being human. Transpersonal is how humans become more than they, than they are know you through, you know, their religions, their spirituality, you know, their own self Improvement and self actualization. So our head of our department studied under Abraham Maslow. So, you know, that's how I. I went to the University of West Georgia. So naturally I kind of became a ghost guy, you know, because that's kind of, you know, they have a par. Parapsychology program there. And, uh, so I was researching, uh, folklore, and I found an area that had a folkloric haunted road, you know, and it's one of those places where if you go way back in the. The sticks and, you know, and Tony talks about it in the documentary how far back this area is, the locals will say, don't go out there. Them haints will get you. You know, don't ever go out there when the sun is down, boy. You know, that kind of stuff. And so you tell me not to go somewhere. That's where I'm going. You know, I'm that guy.
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Host 1
I like you. I like to go.
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Trey Hudson
And so. So we went out there looking for the haunted road. And supposedly the road was paved over a cemetery where they didn't move all the graves and the. The spectral visages of the. The inhabitants of the coffins below would come up out of the ground and rake their bony fingers across the side of your car, you know, and all of that good stuff, you know? Yeah, I love a story like that. A lot of times behind folklore, there's truth. So we went out to the haunted road and we didn't see poop. I don't know what I can say on this podcast, but we didn't see.
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Host 2
You know, you could say whatever you like.
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Trey Hudson
We didn't say we didn't.
- [08:40]
Host 1
Dial it back a little bit, but go for it, man.
- [08:42]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, no, I mean, I'm not a. I'm not an obscene individual. I mean, I was when I was in Afghanistan, but I've toned it down. But, you know, we didn't see crap. We didn't see anything. But back at base camp, my base camp operator, who was Bob Wilson, the famous Bigfoot guy that was on Bigfoot is Real on the Discovery Channel, who's a friend, was a friend of mine, he passed away. Unfortunately, he had a really cool UFO sighting back at base camp, which was quite a ways away from this haunted road. And it's like, I forget that haunted roads, garbage. We're going to start looking here. And it just so happens about three quarters of a mile away from base camp was this big open field. And, you know, I. I'm a former government guy, former military guy, so I kind of think like, that you know, I think about logistics and, you know, moving people and stuff and all of that. And I looked at this field, and it was a big open expanse. Imagine about eight acres of open field. Number one, it proved to be a large track trap because this area was also known for Bigfoot sightings, Hence maybe part of the folklore. Bigfoot sightings, very rich in UFO sightings. The first. Probably 25% of my first book goes into this, you know, quite. Quite in depth. And so you had this big, open expanse. So if something moved across it, it was a natural track trap. You know, we could track the footfalls, you know, from point A to point B. If it was something like Sasquatch or Bigfoot. Number two, being an open expanse, we could put teams in there at night, equipped with thermal and NODS night vision devices, and we could see something because, you know, it's unobstructed. Number three, to the south of it is a large ridge, you know, probably 100, 150ft above it. So we could put. Also put teams up there that could look down with their equipment and see anything below them. And number four is it had a wide expanse of open sky that we could see anything moving through the sky. So logistically, this really made a lot of sense. You know, it just was a really good place to research because it had so much stuff going for it. And that's kind of by accident. It's one of those, you know, coincidental, you know, serendipity, whatever you want to call it, that we happen to stumble across this particular area. And as it turned out, it is, you know, just chock full of high strangeness.
- [11:04]
Host 1
Yeah. So you. You chose it for logistical purposes. Not any. We. We were just doing a. We're doing a documentary on primary waters in Florida. And turns out, like, after some questioning, the guy who found the well and dug it, he was using.
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Host 2
What are they called, Divination rods. Also down.
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Trey Hudson
Dousing rods. Yeah, right.
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Host 1
Yeah, he was using dousing rods to find this. And I mean, it's a deep, deep underground well, and we're getting the water tested. But that was like. So he stumbled upon that location a bit esoterically.
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Trey Hudson
Yeah.
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Host 2
I mean, the idea is that he himself was a freemason in that. Really what stuck out to us is strange is it takes quite a bit of money to commission someone to drill a well. And the average well is anywhere from 100 to 300ft deep, especially in our area. This guy drilled 600ft deep.
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Trey Hudson
Oh, wow.
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Host 2
Limestone. And then told them to keep digging. And the well ends up being 1500ft deep. So, yeah, there's a. There's. It's very strange that he would have committed to such a task, especially just thinking about it from a financial standpoint.
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Host 1
Stranger. It's stranger that Trey would find this supernatural eight square acres just like. Just with your eyes. So purely logistically, like, that's right. Do you think that that's where the most activity happens or is it like spread out?
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Trey Hudson
Well, it's. It's spread. It's spread out. I mean, the area is strange. We've seen UFOs and other odd things in other areas, you know, around it, you know, four miles out, five miles out, things like that. But you, you mentioned something interesting is you talked about the individual, okay. The best piece of equipment for detecting high strangeness isn't something you carry in your rucksack. It's the human being, okay? That's the best piece of equipment. And it just so happens that a lot of members of my team are trained remote viewers, were trained in coordinate remote viewing, the military style remote viewing developed by SRI and U.S. army INSCOM. You know, Burt Stubblebine and all of that stuff, you know, and so, you know, we were kind of already kind of attuned to that stuff, but we weren't really out looking for it. So, you know, it's one of those things is, you know, which comes first? Is it, you know, nature or nurture? Is, are people drawn to these areas because they have a. Innate, you know, antenna tuned to the right frequency or do they just stumble across it or.
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Host 2
What I was going to get at when it comes to your involvement in the meadow project and then given your, your. Your history and your work life, that those two things. Could you call it a coincidence or were you the. The right guy for the right task.
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Host 1
The perfect candidate for that?
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Trey Hudson
Yeah, you know, it's. It's one of those things that we just have to take on faith, you know, And I'm just finding, you know, the older I get, the more things I just have to take on faith and let happen, you know, quit trying to guide the process and just let it happen. And I don't know, maybe both, you know, maybe both. But I will tell you, our lives haven't been the same afterwards.
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Host 1
Trey, can I ask you a question? I guess it might be a little personal.
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Trey Hudson
Sure. I'm married.
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Host 1
Interested? No. As far as faith goes, like with. You're dealing in the supernatural for years now, since at least 2016, probably longer thinking about it, where are you at with faith? Because for us and people. Yeah, we, we started this show looking into conspiracy, high strangeness and things like that. And then we ended up diving deeper than ever into Christianity and taking that more seriously because it seems like there's a lot of answers there. But where do you find yourself?
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Trey Hudson
I am a Bible believing, saved Christian. I am, I am drenched in the blood of our savior. Absolutely 100%.
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Host 1
Smart move.
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Trey Hudson
Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I tell people is, you know, I attend church. I was, was a. I'm not an active deacon anymore. But I mean I'm not. They didn't kick me out, but I'm an inactive deacon in one of the big, big denom, one of the Calvinistic denominations. So yeah, I'm, you know, I'm pretty, you know, pretty strong in my faith. I think you have to be. You know, one thing I warn people and they touch about it in the film, you know, Wards especially goes into it right there at the end is if you go into this business and I'm not talking about, you know, a couple of people taking the, the audio recorder on their cell phone and going into the, the local, you know, supposedly haunted house and sitting around and, you know, laughing, you know, for an hour. I'm talking about people that really, really, really get into this business. It's dangerous. Yeah, I mean it's dangerous and you have to be dialed in psychologically, physically and spiritually or you're not going to make it. You're going to have very negative outcomes. And you know, that's one thing I have. I don't. There is no lithiumus test for being, you know, only anomalous studies and observation group. I'm not that guy. But I do warn people that you, you really need to have a belief system or you're going to have some trouble with this because this stuff can affect you existentially if you're not well grounded.
- [16:22]
Host 2
Let me ask you this, Trey. So you know, given your experience and then of course what we saw in the, in the Meadow project and we spoke to Wes before a little bit about it. He talked about the cube and all the strange activity going on with that. And you know, when you watch the documentary, which I recommend to people right now, it's not available, there was a release that happened and then after the release and the general public got access to it, it's. It has been pulled back and it's going to be released in its entirety or something to that extent. So we're waiting on that to happen. But if you watch the documentary, it's. It's pretty wild. Especially you have infrared cameras that are viewing this entire scenario. You can see this cube that Wes described as hovering only maybe a foot off the ground or something like that. 20 by, or possibly 30 by 30 something of that size. And, and you know, so this whole thing is, is riddled with bizarre inexplicable activity. But what do you think is happening in these locations? You have a skinwalker ranch, you have a meadow. There's also another one. I forget what it is. It's, it's something Wolf ranch.
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Trey Hudson
Space wolf. Yeah, that's right.
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Host 2
Ranch. Right. So you had these areas of high strangeness. What's your running theory? You know, I find your perspective fascinating as, as somebody who has the faith that you have, but also has the, the, the career that you had. What's your running theory on, on these locations? Why in certain places is this more prevalent than others?
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Trey Hudson
I, I think it's a couple of things is, I think these places are a lot more common than people think. And unfortunately, you know, from a very early age we are trained to worship at the altar of science. You know, which isn't about. I'm not ant, I'm not a luddite, I'm not anti science. Okay, you know, guess what? I have a cell phone and electricity and all that good stuff. But, but I think that, you know, you have to look at other things. And our team, our mission statement is we look at phenomena from both the experiential and the empirical side of it. You know, you have to look at stuff as a human being. My philosophy is if you have all this stuff happening and there's not a human being to experience, then what's, what's the point? Why bother? So, you know, going back to your original question is what do I think is going on? I think that there are areas on the earth and you mentioned skinwalker Ranch, Marley woods, the, the ranch in Colorado, you know, which Katie Page talks about a lot, which I luckily had her, she took me out there to that ranch in Colorado last year. I think that for some reason the veil and that sounds all esoteric and you know, just, it's just a term. The barrier, if you will, the membrane if you will, between realities, between dimensions is a little bit thinner and you can interact with data entities, non human intelligence or whatever in some of these places. Now I just literally talked to Steve Mira of the, the Doorway Project a few days ago and you know, there are a lot of theories that these places have. Geomagnetic sinks, you know, these places, you know, Maybe have running water and quartz. You know, there's some sort of, there's some sort of geological, geographical, special, you know, specialness to these places and, or these non human intelligences are using it in several ways. And I'm going to use wind as an example. Wind is a natural occurring phenomena. We as humans can just, we can use wind to our, our furtherances, you know, like with sailboats, big ships, or we can generate wind artificially and use it for our own means, like you would with an airboat or a hovercraft with a large fan in the back. But nevertheless it is an artificial, I mean a natural phenomena. So why wonder if these places that are naturally thin areas and what John Keel called ultra terrestrials. In my first book, I use the term paradimensionals. If these paradimensionals are using these places because they're naturally a naturally occurring portal, if you will, or if they're generating it using some sort of technology. And that's why we're picking up like radiation spikes and possible micro singularities and relativistic sinks and stuff like that. So take all of that and jumble it up. The answer is I don't know. Okay, I'll tell you. Not only do I not know the answers, I might not even know what the right questions are. You know, it's that strange.
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Host 2
I have been so recently. We were talking about it yesterday one more time. What's that? Is this congresswoman, her name is Luna or something like that.
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Host 1
Anna Polina Luna.
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Host 2
Anna Polina Luna. She, she posts something rather fascinating on, on Twitter and it's this diagram that is trying to explain and for what, you know, angle of expertise, I'm not sure, but trying to explain the way that an angel would exist and then an angel exists as data and that data seems to be one of the, the, I don't know, just, just another dimension. So when you're talking about, are you engaging with, are you encountering entities or. Data is one of the things that you said and then you mentioned quartz being a potential component to an area that would make it thin of a veil and quartz being a component in microchips. Yeah, you get where I'm going with this. I'm like, I'm wondering maybe there's something much more to data than we understand. And I know we beat this to death, but the idea that ideas are alive and when you're engaging with, let's say the Internet, you're. It's just this exchange of data, information and ideas.
- [22:19]
Host 1
Your brain is like A synapse of electricity. So the idea would be there are electrical currents that are transmitting information constantly back and forth. Well, what are the conductors? Is it quartz? Is it running water? Is it. What's the Statue of Liberty made out of?
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Host 2
Oh, copper.
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Trey Hudson
Copper.
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Host 1
It's just a huge copper monument that sits in a bay in New York City.
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Host 2
Massive conductor.
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Host 1
Yeah, it's a conductor, but for what? And like, no one's really questioning, but it's definitely doing something because that place is kind of of fallen.
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Trey Hudson
Right.
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Host 2
All of that plugs into this idea where, where. And I don't want to deviate too far, but where AI is going. And then all the concerns, the spiritual concerns with what artificial intelligence is in.
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Host 1
The, in, in your documentary, there's a point where the, you guys are using a Spiricom, I believe, right.
- [23:05]
Trey Hudson
Or a spirit using the Estes method. Yeah.
- [23:08]
Host 1
Okay.
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Trey Hudson
And you, you were talking, talking about copper. And that's, that's why I always stuff a dollar's worth of pennies in my underwear. I jingle when I walk, but it seems to help. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. They call me Mr. Bojangles.
- [23:24]
Host 2
It attracts the phenomenon, but it's very localized too. Yeah, yeah.
- [23:30]
Trey Hudson
I don't know.
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Host 2
I mean. Wait, wait, wait.
- [23:31]
Host 1
Can you explain that the technique that they were using? Because we've done some work on the spirit. We did, we did a very intense deep dive on Indrija Puharich and he shows up, he shows up in Brazil and that's, he's, he's dealing with this guy, Dr. Origo, but he's doing a lot of other things. And he's also doing investigations into the spirit comm, which we have read about. And we've learned that it, it caused some of the, the users of it to basically delve into unsolvable schizophrenia.
- [24:01]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [24:02]
Host 1
And things like that. It's so there. It's. I mean, it seems like a technological Ouija board, but what, what exactly were they doing?
- [24:09]
Trey Hudson
Here's in the spirit comm that you talk about. I think you, there's channel, Dr. Meeks and I'm trying to remember some of the spirit come of the 80s, which is another technology. This is basically you take a ghost box and everybody, you know, probably listening has seen a ghost show, you know, where they sit there with the, the frequency hopping radio and you hear blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, balloon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, toenail, blah, you know, whatever. And you know, that's always subject to, you know, audio paradilia. You know, people hear what they want to hear, you know. You know, humans can convince themselves, you know, of anything. Rationalization is a very, very strong motivator. But what this does, the Estes method is you take a spirit box, SB7 is what we use, and you put earbuds into the output, shooting muffs over that. And then you blindfold the individual so they have no audio cue or visual cue a if a question is being asked and most certainly they have no idea what is being asked in their instruction.
- [25:12]
Host 1
Is that a form of disassociation that you're creating?
- [25:17]
Trey Hudson
Yes, yes. If you go back to like Lily's studies with sensory deprivation, it's similar to that but not quite as severe. And anybody that's ever done a, you know, samadhi tank or a float tank, you know, they kind of understand where I'm. And if you've never tried it, I highly recommend it. But it's kind of like that, but not quite as, not quite as extreme. But there is a bit of dissociation from, you know, your external stimuli. So what we do is, you know, we hook up a person and we have a person called the interrogator and the receiver. The interrogator is the person who's going to be asking the questions. The receiver obviously is the person with the ear shooting muffs on and all of that. And the receiver is given very simple instructions. If you hear an intelligible word as this device hops through these random frequencies, you repeat it loud and proud. If you hear rutabaga, however stupid that may sound, you just say rutabaga or you know, truck or whatever. And in several instances, and this is where it gets a little odd, is we have obtained what appears to be know. And I'm, I'm, I'm not absolute, I can't say for certain, but it appears that we have developed two way communications. And you saw that in the documentary. And what's very interesting is when we started trying to nail down with the NHL, the non human intelligence, the phenomenology of the experiences we were having in the meadow, you know, I start mentioning plasmas, I start mentioning, you know, radiation, I start mentioning, you know, real nuts and bolts thing. It gets very irritated, very agitated, like it doesn't want to talk about that. And I found that very telling, you know, so what I liken it to is imagine a sidewalk in front of your house that's being poured and you have workmen out there troweling down the sidewalk and a little kid comes up and he's the little kid in the neighborhood that's just jabbers all the time and just is a pest. You know, he's a pain in the butt. And he comes up to these workmen and he's standing there with his hands in his pocket and he starts just peppering these poor guys with questions and comments like what you doing? How long is that going to take? You know, where are you from? Is that your truck? You know, just jabbering. So the workmen have three, three options. Number one, they can just ignore the kid, just ignore them, go on with whatever they're doing. The kid might not even understand what they're doing. Number two is they might scare the kid off. Hey, get out of here, we'll whop you with this shovel. Number three is they may take pity and engage with the kid on a limited basis. The non human intelligence or the workmen going about whatever project they're doing. We might not even be able to comprehend their project. And we're the little kid. So I think we ask started becoming a nuisance especially when we started getting into the technicalities of maybe what's going on and it wanted to shoo us off. And that's my interpretation of what happened. I'm not saying that's, you know, the truth, but that's the way I interpret it.
- [28:25]
Host 2
This sort of thing is, is pretty common whenever we have a jump in, in technology, right? So when we would have first developed, you know, the telephone, you would have picked up strange anomalous interactions from disembodied spirits or, or non human intended or entities. And the same thing happens with the television. You know, until they recently we were talking about the, the Diceinian glass that they were allegedly using in Vietnam and it was for night vision purposes, but they were seeing horrifying visages in the jungle at night. My wife stumbled upon a tick tock yesterday. We're talking on the porch and it is somebody describing this new contact lens. And I think there was an infrared capability associated with that contact lens. But already, because it's a new technology, there's horrifying stories about seeing, you know, non human entities through these things. So it's, it seems like we constantly can use technology to peel that veil back and then in its infancy it has to be reeled back and readjusted because people are having, you know, horrifying experiences with things that they are told conventionally don't exist. Do you think that these are happening? You seem like somebody who is very, I mean you're going to One location or another. Do you think that these things are happening more frequently? And when I mean these things, I mean like the frequency of the discovery of areas of thin veiled or, you know, interaction one way or another with these entities. Is this happening more frequently or is it, you know, in a static state?
- [30:03]
Trey Hudson
I think it's happening more frequency and I think frequently. And I think that may be artificial and it goes back to like neuro linguistics is, you know, back in the 70s, you know, I'm 60 years old so you know, I remember back in the 60s and the 70s when the, the mantra preached by science, this doesn't exist, this doesn't exist. It's a pseudoscience, this doesn't exist. And then a few brave souls started going out there and said, yeah, maybe so, but we're going to look into it anyway. And he started having stuff like the SORAT experiments at Duke University that actually was an academic look into the paranormal. And people started saying, well, you know, maybe there is something to this. And now we're kind of going through a, a watershed moment with maybe uap. And I'm not going to say disclosure because that's such a loaded word these days, but acceptance, you know, the scientific establishment is finally a saying, well, you know, maybe we can't ignore this anymore. But more importantly they're saying, hey, we've kind of been looking into this for quite a while and so now that we, we have reprogrammed our brains through neuro linguistics, that this is acceptable, okay? That this maybe is another part of our reality. And I'm not talking about our three dimensional Euclidean reality, but a universal reality. I think people are more attuned to it, I think they're more accepting of it. And as they start to peel away their normality bias, they start noticing things around. And one thing I tell people is, you know, take a map of your local area, wherever it is, and you go to the National UFO Reporting center or Muon and you look for UFO reports and put them on your map. Then go to like BFR or Bigfoot reporting organization and put Bigfoot marks on your map and then go and start digging into your local folklore at your library and start putting ghost stories and folkloric and you're going to see these geo concentrations and one might be a few miles from your, one of your listeners right now. And they just never put the pieces together. And that's where things start rocking and popping. When people start putting this stuff together and actually going out there with boots on the ground and seeing what's happening now, once again, that does come with a warning. You really need to be, you know, squared away with your life before you go out and do this. But I think these things are a whole lot, you know, more common. Yeah, I don't think you have to go to, you know, go see Ryan Burns at, you know, Space Wolf Ranch or go, you know, visit Dwayne out at Blind Frog or you know, come to the Meadow. I think these places are a lot more common.
- [32:41]
Host 2
There's, there's a lot more that I want to ask you. But we're at this 32 minute mark. So guys, if you're watching live on YouTube, on, on rumble etc right now, you're going to want to go to patreon.com if you want to continue watching along with us. Otherwise, give it about a week and a half and this episode will be out in its entirety. But if you want to engage in that live chat and you want to hang out and watch this, patreon.com is where you want to be. You mentioned disclosure there and I'd be remiss if I didn't dive into that a little bit. It seems like we constantly get this, this, I've been calling it a pump fake where the, the government or, or whatever, whoever's associated with UAP disclosure or anything like that, they will have a build up. And it seems like we're going to get something and we do get like some congressional hearings. I know we had the second ever congressional hearing on UAPS maybe about a year ago and so we do get some movement and then they pull it back. And I don't know if that is sort of a way to prime the public because if you do it all at once, it could be very jarring. Although it almost seems like the public doesn't even care at this point. And so maybe they've done a great job of kind of nullifying that feeling in us of existential dread when they introduce some, you know, thing that is said not to exist. But we're at that point again it seems like. And what I mean by that is we have Tulsi Gabbard who, who is, you know, head of the, the, the dod, right. Or something like that.
- [34:04]
Trey Hudson
Now she's, she is dni, Director of National Intelligence.
- [34:09]
Host 2
There we go. And so she's saying that she believes that there is something and she believes that the government, you know, has some information and then she's going to be working to, to get that released to the general public. We've heard that sort of thing before, but now NASA is saying that there is, there's some sort of a celestial know object, or not a celestial object, but an object in space the size of Manhattan. I think they said, we were reading the article yesterday and it is geared to arrive here in November sometime. And they're even, they're even attributing things like hostility to it. They're saying that this thing is hostile. And I mean, we're reading this article just yesterday. I'm going, where on earth do they get off on saying that this thing is hostile of all the assumptions you can make about it. But what do you think about that? You said that you, you, you think it's kind of artificial, that these things are happening more frequently and then we have this happening on the world stage. Where do you put that?
- [35:05]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, it's my personal opinion, kind of based on, you know, my experience, you know, professionally and otherwise is I think probably 95% of what people see are explainable. You know, UFO wise. I think either they're misidentifications or they're classified airframes. And, you know, people say the government can't keep a secret. No, that's, that's a lie. The government can keep a secret. Believe me, they can keep a secret very well. And so that probably leads maybe 3 to 5% that are truly the anomalous. And so, you know, what does that mean? I, I think that a lot of them don't know. And I think a lot of people are, may be afraid of their ignorance and do not know how to, to put that out. I do think a lot of the stuff that people see are classified airframes that are either operational or in development. And one thing that the security specialist and counterintelligence people will do is they will misdirect attention away from whatever it is. And I'll give you an example. Let's say Private Snuffy is on an army base and he's working on a Humvee. And he looks under and he sees these coils under the Humvee. And Private Snuffy's pretty smart and he says, coils? Now I wonder if I ran a electronic field through that, if I could nullify gravity and this thing could float and fly. And so Private Snuffy put the pieces together and says, the army has a flying Humvee. So he starts talking to his buddies about that. Hey, you know, the army has this flying Humvee. And then somebody hears that and they report it to counterintelligence and counterintelligence Comes in and I'm not saying I've ever been part of something like this, is they'll come in and they'll sit Private Snuffy down and say, hey, you know, I think you're wrong. What you really saw was an anti mine technology that we have on the bottom of Humvees that will nullify the electromagnetic field of landmines and these vehicles can drive through minefields. So what they'll do is they'll create, craft a new narrative and put that narrative out there and spin things off in the distance. And that's where you get people like Richard Doty, you know, kind of alludes to, you know, he did some of that stuff. And you know, I'll tell you that's, you know, in the interest of national security that they do that. And I understand why. And it's, it's a necessary misinformation. You know, it has such a negative context, but it's, it's a way of protecting, you know, our secrets that give us the technological edge against our adversaries. And so I think some of that has happened. You know, people have seen things and it's like, oh yeah, yeah, that's a ufo, when in fact it might have been.
- [38:01]
Host 1
What's the guy with the UFO in Los Alamos Lab?
- [38:04]
Trey Hudson
I forget his name.
- [38:05]
Host 2
Lazar.
- [38:05]
Host 1
Lazar, yeah. When he mentioned seeing, it's like I saw a small gray alien sitting in there. I was like, I think like if I, if I were one of these guys and I had you working in a top secret facility and you're bringing your friends out to the desert, I would do something like this as well. And then spin, like there's some sort of spin going on and there's some factual truths in there and there's some things, things that kind of go wild.
- [38:28]
Host 2
Narratives that they want to see. We know only you saw this thing because we planted it. So if that narrative then gets out, well, then we know that you're untrustworthy as well. You know, one of the things we were talking about recently, Trey, is this idea of like we attribute so much of this to the military industrial complex or, you know, these, these blacklisted projects that, you know, finances are getting funneled into and we don't know where the money's going and it's, it's going here, it's making, it's reverse engineering craft, yada yada. And, and Top brought up this great point which is like, that's not really typically how it works, right? I mean, you have these, these private Companies that are contracted and, and you know, that's kind of the way you find out who's the best. Right? It's like the free market of things. And so, you know, we talk about how the Marvel movies do a really great job of it. They have Stark Industries, right, which is like Iron Man's company. And, and he's the guy who's making all of the, the, the, the cutting edge of military technology and then the military buying it. So a lot of the times what we're seeing and we're attributing to, you know, oh, look what the government's got or the military has. It's like that could be, that could be a private company that, that actually has that technology and I'll actually bring.
- [39:44]
Trey Hudson
Bring that back home. First of all, be very wary of anybody that jumps out and says, oh, I'm going to disclose this information. Information. When you are read into a special Access program, a SAP, be it a waived SAP, a acknowledged SAP or an unacknowledged SAP, you sign a piece of paper called a DD Form 2836 and that is a non disclosure indoctrination statement and it has very, very, very, very stiff penalties. If you disclose this information and you have an, a representative of the government that will give you this piece of paper and you will raise your right hand and you will do an attestation and then you will sign. So anybody that comes out and says, oh, like Bob Lazar say, yeah, I'm gonna just release this information. Look what happened to Robert Hansen of the FBI who released information. He's in, he died in prison. You know, look at the WikiLeaks guys. My mind just went completely blank. Snowden. Yeah, look what happened to Snowden, you know, when he released SCI special compartment information he's now in hiding. Look at Julian Assange. You know, all of these people, you know, released information that was classified and now they're hunted.
- [41:03]
Host 1
So we're actually dealing with something on like a minor political level with like Nick fuentes and, and J6 and it's kind of somebody, he was, he was warned like, don't go there. He went there, told people to go in and then, you know, his funds get frozen, but then they're unfrozen and it's like, it's very suspicious. I don't know. But yeah, it's exactly what you're saying.
- [41:23]
Host 2
Yeah, Bobar gets to go on Joe Rogan's podcast and.
- [41:26]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, yeah. So going back to your original question about the Defense Industrial complex and I'll I'll give you an example. One of the things that might have been confused for UAPs or UFOs back in the 70s was the F117 stealth fighter. It was developed, I think Lockheed, Lockheed Martin or Boeing, I can't remember which one developed it. And they developed this. This airframe that had this weird faceted fuselage. It was shaped like an arrowhead that flew out of the Military DOD's test facility out at Groom Lake, Area 51. Okay. It came from a program called Tacit Blue. You can go back and look at the declassified Tacit Blue photographs of us, their prototypes. And so you move forward in. This airframe was actually operational in the 70s. It was part of an organization called the 44th 50th, I think, Air Tactical Squadron. And they were flying operational missions with the F117, you know, for years, like almost a decade. But their cover was they flew, I think a Six Sky Raiders and they only flew the F117s at night. And the F117 didn't really become talked about until I think it was Operation. I think it was Panama just cause. And then it became really publicly known during desert storm in 1991. But so you have to wonder how many operational air. Airframes are flying operationally out of Tampa, Na, you know, into these other Air Force bases. And that's a misidentification. So that's how, you know, that that stuff works. Now we're going to bring it back to Skinwalker Ranch. And high strangeness is the Sherman Ranch was bought by Robert Bigelow. Okay? So Bigelow had this ranch and he always was interested in this stuff. The Defense Intelligence Agency was also interested in this stuff. And, you know, the government's been interested in, you know, high strangeness for. For decades, decades and decades. So they created a contract through DoD, specifically Defense Intelligence Agency, put it under the auspice of a special access program, read people in, set up a program manager, then hired Bigelow Aerospace to set up something called nids, which is the National Institute for Discovery Science. NIDS went out there, did all this investigation with government funding, wrote a report, and then gave it back to dia. That's when why Bigelow, when he's, you know, being interviewed, people say, why can't you disclose what you know? Number one, it's still classified. And it's not his information. The, you know, big government paid for it. You know, it's their information. So that's how that works is, you know, special access programs, especially in, you have three types of SAPs. You have acquisition SAPs, which are development of material and equipment and stuff like that. You have intelligence SAPs, which are intelligence. And then you have operational, which is like, you know, this. Your dev group is going out to get bin Laden. You know, it's an operational SAP or a CAG combat application group is, you know, doing a mission somewhere. So, you know, that's how the acquisition works. If anybody wants to kind of peel back the onion and see how all that operates, I suggest they read a book called Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. And it talks about how Harry Reid helped set up his special access program. And it got rolling and Bigelow was brought into it. Bigelow Aerospace. Bass was given the. The contract and they did the research out at US Skinwalker Ranch.
- [44:56]
Host 1
Now, a question for you, because you. Yeah, so Bigelow owns or he owned. Yeah, partially, I guess, like Skinwalker Ranch. But it was like this private.
- [45:05]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [45:07]
Host 1
Merger kind of thing. And then they sold it. And now it's like a reality TV show. And I'm left to say, what the hell if this. This place is very special. It's a thinny like. Like Stephen King would call it. It's a thin area in the veil. And I guess. What does that mean? Did they find what they needed and then just said. Or make a TV show out of it or something?
- [45:28]
Host 2
I can't imagine they would release it for public consumption in that way if it still had some real value.
- [45:34]
Trey Hudson
Now, I haven't sat down with Brandon Fugal and talked about the whole thing. I did follow it, you know, just kind of academically is Bigalow, you know, had the contract. I think they squeezed as much information as they could out of it. Either they ran out of funding or they. They met the deliverables for their contract. You know, I. I don't know what. What specifically happened. And then Bigalow, I think, started moving on to other things. I think he's publicly said he's now doing survival, life after death stuff. So he. He sold it to a group. And I'm trying to remove his Antin Antonidium, something like that holdings. And it was like a big secret. You could actually go online. You could look at the tax records there in Uinta County. And it turns out that that was actually bought by Brandon Fugal. That was his front company and he was behind that. So. But Mr. Fugal has always had a. A very strong academic interest in all things, you know, strange. And, you know, it's a natural fit for his, you know, Curiosity. And I think that it just happened, you know, I don't know what. How the sausage was made, but the deal was made with History Channel to develop the TV show. Now I have to. Have to wonder is, you have two tiers of research. You have what you see on tv, which is the sizzle. You know, that smells good and it makes your mouth water. The steak is behind the curtain. The real research. And so, you know, I've always been, you know, trying to reach out to those folks and say, look, you know, let's share this. I'll give you a bite of my steak if you let me have a bite of yours.
- [47:07]
Host 1
Okay. And can we get a bite of your steak there? Because let's. Let's move it back to the meadow. Is that public land? Is it privately owned?
- [47:15]
Trey Hudson
It is. It is public land. And I will get. Go ahead and give you the location. Oh, all right.
- [47:22]
Host 2
That's interesting.
- [47:23]
Trey Hudson
Where is it first? Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
- [47:26]
Host 1
Let's guess.
- [47:27]
Host 2
I can't guess. I can't possibly guess.
- [47:30]
Host 1
The. The area looks like Georgia, and I'm assuming I just have. Is it along the 33rd parallel?
- [47:35]
Host 2
Oh, that's an interesting question. Yeah, the 33rd parallel.
- [47:38]
Trey Hudson
I will tell you this. It is south of the Mason Dixon line and east of Arizona.
- [47:42]
Host 1
Okay. It's a little more west.
- [47:44]
Host 2
It's a big. It's a big area.
- [47:46]
Trey Hudson
I know. I'm. I'm just teasing you. That's, you know, I, I, I, I. I don't give the location away. And it's not because I'm trying to be a butthole. It's because if this area is ever disclosed or outed.
- [47:58]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Trey Hudson
My days of meaningful research are over.
- [48:01]
Host 2
Yeah. I don't know if you've seen what Tik Tock happens to do, like, to your favorite, you know, watering hole or whatever, you know, like, people have this place in their town, and it ruins.
- [48:10]
Host 1
Look at what it did to our favorite, the Miami Nephilim. That was, like, our favorite thing.
- [48:15]
Host 2
Now it's like, oh, now it's just this water disgusting thing. You know, speaking on the topic of. And this does apply to the meadow, you know, we had this situation. Keisha, in the chat brought it up about the New Jersey drones, which. Which was, you know, kind of gripping everybody in the. In the, I don't know, Truth or Community for some time there. And we were kicking around this idea of, like, what if a private company did successfully achieve some sort of technology? Like, how Bob Lazar alludes to this, you know, extra element in the Periodic table that takes space time and bends it around it. So it's not a propulsion system where fuel goes in and, and, you know, exhaust goes out the back and this thing goes forward, but instead it pulls space time around it. What if some private company really perfected that, figured it out, and then put on a display? Because the New Jersey drone situations have been more or less dismissed. Right? Donald Trump said he was gonna look into it. He came out, he said, nothing to see here. But if you go back to when the reports were happening, there were government officials that were saying, I'm watching these things appear as one thing, and when you zoom in on them, they are a ball of plasma and they're, they're, they're chasing Navy ships, they're tailing them. Right. That doesn't seem like something that our own government, I mean, so it almost felt like a display. And I don't want to jump straight to entities because that's a strange thing. You then have to say, well, why are these, you know, non human entities doing this? This is a bizarre display of power in New Jersey of all places. And there was some fog of war stuff where they're looking for nuclear material that was taken out of a dock in Newark from a shipping container. So who knows if that even applies to this situation, but it kind of could. You know, it looks to me like a, like a display of power if you were a company and you achieved that sort of level of what have you. So my question as it applies to the New Jersey drones and the meadow, is, is there any part of you that feels like what was seen on camera, especially in regards to this gigantic cube? Could it have been somebody testing out something, putting this thing out there on public land and saying, let's see how people interact with it. Let's see what their response is.
- [50:29]
Trey Hudson
Well, yeah, let me go back to the New Jersey drone thing. Misidentification. Okay? Every, every single video I saw, the, the drones were terrestrial airframes, be they drones or aircraft, you know, and you can go to Flight Radar 24, and there's a live app on that. You can click and you point it at whatever you're looking at in the sky, and it'll tell you the aircraft's identification number. You know, really handy. So I think that was basically a little bit of group hysteria, which is fine. That happens. I get it. Now, going back to one thing, you know, I was trained as an analyst, is two things you always what if and why? You know, those are two questions you always ask when you encounter Something, what if and why? So we go back to, you know, your, your question about, you know, was a company or somebody testing something is why? Why would they test something? Spend the money, the efforts, the logistics to test something in the middle of a room, extremely remote forest, hoping that some people stumble across it. That doesn't seem like a very good use of resources to me because companies here in the United States are beholden to the shareholder. You know, they have to make a profit. That's not a good profit making strategy is to, you know, ring a bell in the middle of the woods and hope that somebody hears it. Does just doesn't make sense. So, and that goes back to the what if? So what if we did this? What are our odds of success? Pretty remote. You know, if I was going to test something like that, I would go to an area that was populated, I. E. Remote Yellowstone, near one of the maybe more remote geysers where people are passing by, and I would test it out there. But just some area that has no real points of interest. It's literally in the middle of the forest. So it just, you know. Well, it just doesn't make sense removing.
- [52:24]
Host 2
That as a possibility then.
- [52:25]
Host 1
Well, I don't know if you, I don't know if I'm comfortable removing that because you've got like Lieutenant Fravor in the, the Navy airplanes and the Tic Tac things that they're following. I don't think that they, I think a lot of the times, maybe sometimes they do just come upon these craft, but I think a lot of the times the craft may be put there to see how, how it could combat and react.
- [52:46]
Host 2
It could want to be seen. But, but I mean, you know, if, if that's not the case.
- [52:50]
Host 1
If, if, but that's certainly the middle of nowhere as well. It's like, oh, certainly ocean.
- [52:54]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [52:55]
Host 1
And they'll see like, you know, a Tic Tac craft. They're like, what will they.
- [52:58]
Host 2
I think Trey would, would agree it's not an impossibility. Right. But it's a, it's a very low likelihood that would be the case. So.
- [53:05]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, I just don't think the return on investment would be there.
- [53:08]
Host 2
So, so if that's the case, then, then we're left maybe with, with more esoteric answers. Right. I mean, a cube is a very esoteric symbol.
- [53:18]
Trey Hudson
Yes.
- [53:18]
Host 2
Something that shows up a lot, you know, when it comes to the idea of like Saturn and the, and the worshiping of the black cube. And you know, also this, this, this hypercube, the idea of a fourth dimensional cube. The Tesla Ra act. This, this sort of, this is deeply ingrained in occult symbolism. So it's not. Well, it's a, it's a very, not, not a very unique. It's a very significant.
- [53:44]
Host 1
What were you gonna say?
- [53:45]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, yeah, actually I wrote a chapter in the second book on that is, you know, if we go all the way back, you know, when the Ark of the Covenant was being moved by the Israelites, they built a temporary tabernacle. Now the tabernacle was square, was, it was a box to hold the holy of holies. When the temple was built, the sanctum sanctorium behind the curtain was once again a cube, a box. You go to Mecca, there's something there called the Kaaba, which is a huge black cube which predates, you know, Christianity, predates Islamic and is basically a polytheistic temple in the corner of the Kaaba. Do you know what there is? There's the remnants of a meteor or a stone from the sky. And so then you come into the New Testament when John the Revelator was imprisoned and he started writing about the coming second coming of Christ, we encountered something called the New Jerusalem descending from the sky, which is a cube 1400 miles calculated the cubits on each side. You move Forward into the 20th century. You have the Carl Higdon case in Wyoming. He encountered a translucent cube which was an aircraft. You move Forward into the 21st century. There are some of the navy pilots talked about seeing a cube inside of a sphere. And I just saw during an article on one of the incursions at one of the air force bases that they are now releasing that not only did they see traditional drones, but they saw a flying black cube. Now why is a cube so important? Why did Carl Jung have the effigy of a cube put down at the lakeside at his retirement home? Because we look at cubes and it resonates with us.
- [55:40]
Host 1
When you turn that cube along its axis here on like on the Y axis. So it's kind of diamond shaped and you spin creates what resembles the Star of David, like the upward triangle, downward triangle or the seal of Solomon or however you'd like to call that.
- [55:56]
Trey Hudson
Right?
- [55:56]
Host 2
Yeah. I believe from the top, if you put a, if you stood a cube on its corner and looked from the top down, it would make a hexagram, I believe is the, the.
- [56:03]
Host 1
It's an, it's an interesting shape. There's a lot of power in the dynamic of that, the structure of that shape. So you seeing is not really a surprise.
- [56:12]
Trey Hudson
Right. No. And you go back to alchemy, you know, you talked about some of the esoteric sciences is there was something that the alchemist had called the prima materia, which was the basic building block of all matter in the way they represented that in their alchemal text was an illustration of a black cube. So, you know, it's, it's interesting that that archetype. And you can go back into Youngstein archetypes, you can go back into, you know, maybe genetic memory of certain things that really resonate with us. You know, a black cube in a place that's unfamiliar is really going to make the heck of a heck of an impression. You know, maybe even more so than like a saucer shape. It's just really going to resonate with people. And that might be a third dimensional shadow of a multi dimensional entity, machine or essence, or it might be something that's all of the above and none of the above. It might be some other, some other type of existence that we don't even understand yet. That's not machine organic. It could be something totally different. And that's the way it represents itself when it's reduced down into our dimension as a cube. Now that's a, that's a theory, but it seems to be the cube. You're right. The cube is very important. It resonates with people, it horrifies people and it makes people question reality.
- [57:30]
Host 2
So considering that you've written a chapter on this and this is something that, you know, you've seen and then you've understood the symbolism surrounding it, and it's one of those things where, you know, we, we do a conspiracy show. So the cube comes up constantly and it is, it is sort of the gift that keeps on giving. It's not, you can't, it's very difficult to boil it down into a quick conversation. Like, what does the cube represent? It's like kind of like a lot of stuff. Man. Man. And so in that way, how do you, I mean, where, where are you in your, in your, in your theorizing? I mean, I know you don't have much to grab onto. Turns out that the cube disappeared on you. Yeah, in the middle of the field there. But, you know, you, you strike me as a man who's not just gonna let that go to bed. You're gonna, you're gonna try to. Yeah.
- [58:18]
Host 1
How many, how many times have you, have you guys seen. This is.
- [58:22]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, we saw the Cube, of course, in February of 2017. And then I'm looking at my notes right here in April 8, 2018, our team was out there in the meadow and they were following a set of tracks in the grass. And it was like, imagine tire tracks, okay? And just imagine, I'm not saying they were tire tracks, but imagine that where the grass is pressed down. But it was like something was dropped into it, traveled a distance and then was lifted out and then the grass was bent over. It wasn't broken. And there were ant hills in the track lines that weren't compressed. Compressed. So it's like linear crop circles.
- [59:00]
Host 1
And so say the crop circle. I. Have you, have you read the book? It can't be People by somebody named Citizen. There's a guy named Citizen D, and we had him on the show. He claims to be one of the people that were doing crop circles in the UK. He says 80% of the crop circles he knows who are man made, actually. Man made. Some are unexplained. But the interesting part is that the location, the design, and even the when usually come down to like these external downloads that he explained in a way. But like I, I think his grasp on esotericism was a little bit like.
- [59:40]
Host 2
Yeah, it was kind of like he would just knight these. He was inadvertently channeling, which who knows what he did in his life or if something else was done in and his, you know, by his parents or his grandparents, whatever, gave access to that sort of an ability. He's inadvertently channeling this information and then he is inspired to get up and mobilize and go and do this thing. Oftentimes we'll, we'll arrive and other individuals will be there already working on the thing. They also got the same channel and even there's instances where after he was done with the design, he found he bumped into a local witch covenant, who.
- [60:14]
Host 1
Who, who thanked him.
- [60:16]
Host 2
Thank him for doing the design. Yeah, and said that they had actually been praying for this, you know, this sort of a, A symbol to appear or a message.
- [60:24]
Host 1
But I guess the, the point is that it's just very odd that something like that. So you, Are you saying that the cube, because it was floating above it, it just bent the grass, but it didn't touch the.
- [60:34]
Trey Hudson
Well, no, no, now let me finish. I just said they found these track lines. And what was interesting about it is, is if they stood inside of the track lines and they looked west using their full spectrum camera, which also, it basically translates infrared and ultraviolet into a visible spectrum that you can see on your camera, they could see another cube. And this was in 2018. They would step out of the track line. Look through their full spectrum. No cube. Step in the track line. They could see the cube. And this was like a smaller one. This was. I'm looking at my. Just like 9ft by 9ft by 9ft, much smaller. So they got real excited. So they went to hit record on their full spectrum camera and they left the SD card back at the camp. So they didn't. But I've got their affidavits. So that was the second, you know, second viewing of the queue. But you mentioned something interesting or downloads, which is. As this phenomena is evolving, that's something that we're encountering more of. And I think. I don't know if you remember in the. The documentary, the download of Knox Magby, the. The term.
- [61:42]
Host 2
No, I don't remember that one.
- [61:43]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, that was in June of 2020. We had gone out and this is how the. The meadow evolves. You know, what we experienced before is not what we're experiencing now. It's a constantly evolving. And it throws you these weird curveballs that come out of nowhere. And we had gone to the meadow and June of 2020, and that was right in the middle of COVID So the campsite that we usually use was shut down by whatever entity controls this swath of public land. I'm not going to say which entity, but they had closed down the popular campsites. So we found a dispersed campsite which was about three miles away from the meadow and our usual campsite. So we were staying there. So we decided we were going to go to the meadow and we were going to do a CE5 session which is, you know, there you go. I'm not going to get into the Trey.
- [62:35]
Host 1
Do you. Do you ever worry about this kind of stuff, like doing this? I would be freaked out, man.
- [62:42]
Trey Hudson
I am protected by the blood of my savior. I'm not worried about it, man.
- [62:46]
Host 1
I think my faith is just not strong because we've been. We've been confronted with like, should we talk to this person who's probably practicing witchcraft? Should we do XYZ thing? And I'm like, you know what, man? I've. My house has been touched by witchcraft in some form of fashion. I'm like, I'm kind of good, but I have.
- [63:03]
Host 2
I have that, that. That. That hair in me where I keep wanting to go to these places. I keep wanting to. And I'm not so really worried about hitchhikers or anything like that, because I don't.
- [63:11]
Host 1
I don't think I should be either, but I am. Which. Which should make me Worried.
- [63:17]
Host 2
Maybe. Maybe that's it. Yeah, that's the reason. Well, okay. All right. So he goes.
- [63:20]
Host 1
Trees, like.
- [63:20]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [63:20]
Host 1
Stay out of it. So you're doing.
- [63:22]
Trey Hudson
Yeah. I mean, what. Whatever makes you comfortable. But ce5. So we, you know, I can get into the controversy on Steven Greer, and, you know, I'm not going there, but the protocol does work. Okay. I mean, you know, it does seem to be successful. So we went to the. Went to the meadow. We set up a CE5 protocol. We actually broadcasted some. Some tones recorded in the middle of crop circles. We. A lot of the people there with this E5 session were remote viewers, so we. We tried to get down into Theta and project our attention.
- [63:51]
Host 2
You know what the. The CE. The basis of the CE5 is, is. Is hemisync. It's. It's binaural beats. Well, the brain.
- [63:59]
Trey Hudson
Yeah. And. Well, that's. That's Robert Monroe stuff right there from the Monroe Institute. And. And if we have time later, I can talk you about our experiments in the field with the God helmet.
- [64:09]
Host 1
Dude, Trey, you are a wealth of information. This is a. I'm. I'm, like, stunned.
- [64:13]
Host 2
I know. I hope we don't put you off. I hope you come back one day.
- [64:16]
Host 1
Yes. Dude, that's amazing.
- [64:19]
Trey Hudson
But. So anyway, we were doing the CE5 protocol, and once again, nothing happened. And it's like, well, crap, nothing happened. You know, we were just sitting out here in the woods.
- [64:27]
Host 2
Now we.
- [64:28]
Trey Hudson
We enjoy each other's company. So it was. It was a good time. I mean, we enjoyed the experience, but it wasn't what we had hoped for. So we came back to camp, and while we were out at. Out. Out in the meadow is the team member that was minding camp. That was our base camp operator and radio net control guy. He had something drive by camp. A vessel, a craft, if you will. It was completely blacked out. He turned off all the lights in camp because it was kind of strange. But he heard the. The distinct sound of crunching gravel as something traveled down the road adjacent to the campsite. But it gave off no light at the exact same time as this craft passed by base camp. Admitting no light, his Geiger counter spiked up to 0.66 microsieverts per hour. Now, that's not a dangerous amount of radiation, but the baseline is about 0.02 micro sieverts per hour. So it's a significant empirical increase. So we went back and did a hypnotic regression on that. And what he remembered through hypnotic regression is he perceived a Jeep. Now, he says Normally he didn't see anything, but under regression he remembers seeing a jeep. We think that was a screen memory. He says the jeep stopped and these two figures got out. They were all black. They had all black heads, all black bodies, no features, just black shadows that moved around, got back in the jeep and departed. So that happened at base camp. So once Again, maybe our CE5 protocol manifested itself in a way we weren't expecting. The next morning, one of my team members comes up to me. His name is Tony. Tony is a, has an engine engineering degree from the U.S. air Force Academy, worked in U. S. Air Force special operations for a while and is now a very respected member of his highly technical career field. Goes all over the world doing whatever it is he does. And I'm, I'm not going to go into it because I don't want to disclose, you know, disclose his ID because he comes up to me and he says, trey, he goes, while I was asleep, I had something really interesting. He said. About 4:30 this morning, about 0430, I woke up and I had this term in my mind. And the term is knox magby. N o x m a b e r m a g b e e mag b. That's the phonetic spelling of the term that he, you know, came up with. And then he popped up at 0630 and this term was still in his mind. And he says, what does this mean? Does it, does this have any significance you're aware of? And I said, well, you know, Tony, I don't, but I will look into it. So I go to look into it and it turns out that nox n o x is the name of the Roman goddess of the night. And magb was a little bit more difficult. I found magb as a derivative of the word magba which is in the old English poem Beowulf, magba means kindred or children. Now if you remember, old English was spoken right after the, the Romans left Britain. So it's, it's contemporaneous that somebody who spoke old English would also, you know, have at least a nodding knowledge of the Roman gods and goddesses. So the two terms, you know, are contemporaneous. So you put those together. Children of the night goddess. So water small, like children that have big heads and big eyes that sometimes come into people's rooms at night. The grays. So the meadow threw us a curveball. That's not how we were expecting our CE5 session to end, but it manifested in ways that we weren't expecting.
- [68:18]
Host 2
That reminds me of, of Nathan Gillis's work, where he refers to the entire thing as the phenomenon.
- [68:23]
Host 1
Nathaniel.
- [68:24]
Host 2
What did I say?
- [68:24]
Host 1
Nathan?
- [68:25]
Host 2
Nathan, yeah. Nathaniel Gillis, he refers to it as. My mistake. As the phenomenon because it seems to have an adaptation element where it will manifest in. In different ways, shapes, or forms. And there's kind of a categorized.
- [68:38]
Host 1
Gary Wayne's work. Right. It's just like a. Like. I mean, we started the show talking about constant rebranding of.
- [68:44]
Host 2
Oh, yeah, it's this.
- [68:45]
Host 1
It's almost the same thing. It seems like what you guys saw was a rebranding. Like you're seeing shadow entities or shadow people.
- [68:51]
Trey Hudson
Oh, yeah, kind of.
- [68:52]
Host 2
Well, that is what we were also told. Was it Pastor Dave that said that when he was using the CE5 app, he found that the frequency that it was using for its binaural beats portion was the same frequency he organically discovered on his own to be able to astral project and things of that nature. But he also found that what it would result in was sleep paralysis, alien abduction phenomenon, and poltergeist activity around his house.
- [69:19]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [69:20]
Host 1
And with the sleep paralysis, you're likely to see these shadow men.
- [69:24]
Host 2
So it's all interconnected. Right. That's why Nathaniel Gillis just blanketly calls it the phenomenon, apparently.
- [69:32]
Host 1
Did you know that David was giving himself sleep paralysis in the same way he was using a very. Like.
- [69:36]
Host 2
This is. Allegedly.
- [69:37]
Trey Hudson
But. But.
- [69:38]
Host 2
But there's a potential that my fan. The hum of my fan.
- [69:42]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [69:43]
Host 2
Was acting as a sort of binaural beat and was locking me into sleep paralysis, which is, you know, who I was. Binaural beat downing myself. But, Trey, here's a real concern, especially given what happened to the two gentlemen that passed into the area where the. The. The cube was.
- [70:02]
Host 1
Well, there were three, I believe. Right.
- [70:04]
Trey Hudson
But since passed away.
- [70:07]
Host 2
And, you know, it's one thing to speculate as to what happened to them, but the fact of the matter is, whenever this phenomenon takes place. You talked about a Geiger counter. There are commonly traces of radiation which kind of wreaks havoc on the human body. Is there no concern on your behalf or your constituents that radiation could be a real issue here?
- [70:31]
Host 1
Well, you know, we. We were actually gonna. We made, like, loose plans to go out to.
- [70:36]
Host 2
Oh, we were going to go to Moon Lake. Moon Lake, which was supposed to be. I think it's today, actually.
- [70:41]
Host 1
Yeah. They were doing like, a podcaster thing or, like supernatural podcast, and we're like, oh, let's go fly out there.
- [70:46]
Host 2
And being in Utah.
- [70:47]
Trey Hudson
Right.
- [70:48]
Host 2
Also having high strangeness.
- [70:49]
Host 1
Yeah. And I heard that they canceled it because of high levels of radiation within the area.
- [70:54]
Host 2
Unsafe levels of radiation. They actually had to cancel the event.
- [70:57]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, yeah. What I'll say is our radiation, our Geiger counters show very low levels of radiation. And we do have a guy on our team that doesn't come out as much. He's pretty busy, but he's a. Actually a nuclear engineer. And, you know, we've determined that the levels that we're detecting is not dangerous with intermittent exposure, you know. Yeah, would really, you'd really have to take a lot of it for it.
- [71:23]
Host 2
Really to be dangerous risk.
- [71:24]
Trey Hudson
It's a calculated risk. It's not, you know, a blind, you know, foray into danger. It's, you know, it's a calculated risk. And, you know, you really have to sit down and do like a risk analysis, you know, before these things, because, you know, there is some risk and there's some risk as esoteric as radiation and, you know, whatever, you know, interdimensional risk and all that. But there's also risk of, you know, falling down a hill, not hydrating, you know, not having the proper equipment because most of our research takes place in the wintertime, you know, not having rain gear. So, you know, you have to really.
- [72:00]
Host 1
Winter. Any specific reason?
- [72:02]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, the reason we like it in the winter is there are less, less people running around this area because it's cold. People just don't like being out in the cold. So they're not going to be out there camping. You're not going to run into, you know, Joe and his five children camping. Leaves are off the trees. So we have a much, much broader field of view because of the lack of vegetation. And then number three is the ambient air temperature is so cold. Hopefully if we see something on our thermals, there's enough of a discrepancy between the temperature of the object that we're seeing and the ambient air temperature. So it just makes it a little bit easier for us to research. Makes our equipment seems to work a little bit better.
- [72:44]
Host 2
There seems to be a correlation between these areas of high strangeness and, and two particular locations, one being military bases. This comes up a lot. And you can kind of understand why that might be the case, why there might be a military establishment over a area with a, you know, a thin veil or something of that nature. But the other correlation is, is national parks. Now you have the David Polity's missing 411 series, and right now there's something really strange and anomalous happening, which there are conventional Explanations for there are, you know, workers in the national parks holding the, or flying the flag upside down as a symbol of distress. And that's explained away as basically unsafe working conditions and understaffed and so.
- [73:28]
Trey Hudson
Right.
- [73:29]
Host 2
And that's how it's been explained for the most part. And then you have something strange going on at the same time in Canada in their forests where because of the wildfires which really have been a serious issue over these past few years, they just find a gentleman, $28,000 for stepping in the forest. There's a no go.
- [73:46]
Host 1
Not just the gentleman, but a guy that has like a kind of storied career within the military, all kinds of military aspects of the Canadian government. So I'm just like fascinating character.
- [73:56]
Host 2
That too.
- [73:56]
Host 1
I just said it, I see it.
- [73:57]
Host 2
And I go, okay, that away. Write that down.
- [74:00]
Host 1
Yeah, but I'm still, I'm watching you.
- [74:03]
Host 2
So. But those of us within this community, I can't help but speak speculate with absolutely no evidence whatsoever that, that maybe these things are connected in some way. The missing 41 1, the the not going in the forest, all the high strangers with the national parks. Do you think that there's any correlation, really meaningful correlation and I don't know if you've come across in your research between these areas of, of a thin veil and national parks and why that might be.
- [74:30]
Trey Hudson
Yes. And if I got a deal for you. June of 2020. Okay. We had decided to, decided to go back out to. Yeah, hold on, let me look them up. I'm sorry. Yeah. January of 2020. January of 2020, we had decided to go back out and do an expedition. Now this expedition, we didn't have a whole lot of people. You know, it was a very, we didn't have a lot of, you know, I'm retired, but a lot of the team members, you know, they work. So myself and one of my research partners, Kristen Payton, she and I decided we were going to go, go out during the day and do a survey for baselines and we were going to go to the different areas where we had had high strangeness, where we had the original cube. Then in the, the west end of the meadow where we had the cube that were, you know, down the two tracks. Another place where we had some high strangeness and we're going to take baselines of electromagnetic field using a tri field. We were going to do had a Geiger counter take radiation and just kind of check out the area, see if there's anything different. Because it's always important to have baselines because then, you know what the. The. You know, your sigma is, what the strangeness is. So we're going around, and we're doing our baselines. And, you know, I have a pad, and I have my Geiger counter and my compass and all my stuff. And we decided we were going to cross a creek. It's actually a small river or a very large creek to go to the north side of the meadow. So we go over there, you know, we take our boots off, string them around our necks, roll our pants up, and we wait out there. I wait out onto the shore, and I step out, and there's another big field. And I'm like, wow, this is really cool. There's, like this big, huge open area over here. I didn't think that this would even exist because of a ridge that was going to block it. We can do concurrent research on both sides of this small river, you know, and see what happens. So I was really excited about it, you know, and give you a little bit about my background. Like I said, I was a former army intel officer. I've hunted big game in North America and Africa. I am an Eagle Scout. I've earned the Scoutings 50 mile a foot of float award three times. I'm pretty comfortable in the outdoors. You know, I'm. You know, I'm really comfortable in it. I'm not tooting my own horn, but just. That gives you a little my background. So, you know, I'm really excited about it. I yelled at Kristen across the creek. I said, hey, you need to come over here. This is, like, really, really cool. It's like another big area. And she goes, what are you talking about? I said, now, this is cool. We can, like, run concurrent, you know, research studies, you know, both sides of the. The creek or the river. She goes, don't move. I'm coming over there to you. So she comes over there to me, and she says, trey, what are you talking about? I said, look at this. Isn't this cool? This is like a new research area. She goes, trey, you're back in the meadow. I'm like, no, no, I'm not. She goes, yes, you are. Look around. I said, no, this isn't the same place. And this is where it gets a little weird. Yeah, that's. That's a loaded statement. When she. Where it gets weird when she starts explaining to me that it is the original meadow, probably a place I've been to 50 times. It's like the environment changed. It's like it went back to what it was. And then you can get into the. The dual realities existing in the same time in quantum states. On a macro scale, you can get into that with. Which I think is probably what happened with the original cube. And I was so disoriented that she wanted to call our qrf, get our chief medic. Now, she's a trauma nurse, but she wanted to get our chief medic to come out there and get me. And I said, okay, guys, I'm making a command decision as the head of ASOG. Leave me the F. Alone for 10 minutes. Just leave me alone. Let me get my feet back on the ground, and then we'll head back to base camp. Yeah, I'm gonna drink some water. Just. Just. Because I had to get my head straight. At that same moment, we were logging the radiation readings with our Geiger counter. Like I said, we were recording baselines at that moment when I was so disoriented. We had a radiation spike of 0.33 micro sieverts per hour. So I always wonder, if I hadn't had our protocols in place, would you. A, you never go out alone. B, you always have radio communications, and C, you always have navigation gear that you can get back. You know, compass, map, gps.
- [79:15]
Host 1
You did a compass?
- [79:17]
Trey Hudson
I did. I did have a compass. No, I didn't even think. No, I didn't, because I was just. I was so discombobulated. Yeah. And so if I hadn't had those protocols in place, could I have ended up as one of the chapters in David Polity's books? You know, is that what is actually going on?
- [79:38]
Host 2
Well, there's. There's some really famous cases in, In David Polity's research that stand out to me. One of them in particular was a child untrackably appearing on the other side of a mountain range that they would have never had the ability to traverse, given the age of the child. And, you know, according to people that were local in the area or. There was a gentleman that spent quite a, you know, an amount of time in the woods said that adult men would have trouble traversing this mountain range and getting to the other side of it. An impossible task for a child. And yet, well, somehow this kid is found on the other side of the range. When you.
- [80:13]
Host 1
Trey, when you walked into this thing, you said you walked into a creek. Yeah, like a cr. Across. So across water. Running water.
- [80:21]
Trey Hudson
Right. And basically, I crossed it and ended up right back where I started.
- [80:29]
Host 1
That's. Man, I, I. Gary, I almost guarantee you, if you looked at the compass, it was probably just spinning right where you at? That's, that's an interesting concept. Right? Like you, you cross the running water, which is, there's something about, biblically, something about running water. The, the power.
- [80:47]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [80:47]
Host 1
Of, of whatever that is.
- [80:49]
Host 2
Well, it's a frequency thing. I, I was looking it up and researching it. The, the reason why if frequency can travel more easily in, in water, I mean, obviously water.
- [80:59]
Trey Hudson
Yes. Sound travel, that's huge. Yeah. When we would dive, we would bang on our tanks, you know, with our knives to get other divers attention because it travels, sound travels so far underwater. That's a very dense medium. But you know, as I say, and.
- [81:12]
Host 2
Also the conducting aspect of it I think is, is huge.
- [81:15]
Trey Hudson
But you know, as they say in the, the commercials for, you know, you know, mops and you know, all kinds of things. But wait, there's more? Yeah, there's more.
- [81:24]
Host 2
Where is the more?
- [81:25]
Host 1
One more question. So.
- [81:26]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [81:27]
Host 2
Okay.
- [81:27]
Host 1
All right, you cross, you cross this, this stream and you are looking at what appears to be another meadow.
- [81:35]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [81:36]
Host 1
Similar. What, like what would have happened? Do you, do you think it either, do you think it turned, just turned you around? Like when, when the, the lady came to approach you, was she coming from a spot that you came from already?
- [81:47]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, she was coming from about the same spot. Yeah. I mean, and that, you know that Occam's Razor, that's what happened. You know, I got turned around somehow. I walked straight and I walked right back out of the place I started. Like somehow I turned myself 180 degrees and didn't realize it.
- [82:04]
Host 1
The question I have for you is, do you, if you would have continued walking further, do you think you would have went back to where you came from or do you think you would have, like you said, traversed into nothing?
- [82:15]
Trey Hudson
I don't know. I really don't know. I, I think that the disorientation probably would have been severe. I might have wandered off and never been found, you know, if I hadn't had somebody with me. Maybe that's what happens to people, you know, when they go missing in these areas, is they, they, you know, it's like the case, the famous case of the guy that went missing in Mesa Verde, you know, in Colorado, is he went up a very popular. I've been to Mesa Verde, you know, it's, the trails are really well marked and he never made it back. They found his body years later in December of, excuse me, July of 2020. We had just had one of our team members die. One of the, the guys that went into the uh, a cube and we had a outing planned and we decided to go on and do it anyway in memory of him because we weren't going to be able to have a funeral or attend a funeral because of COVID So we, we went there, you know, there was tear shed, toast made, good times and bad times, you know, remembering Mr. Tim Gillardin. But we also decided we were going to try to get some research out of it. So myself, Bob Wilson and Kristen Payton decided we would go out to the meadow. And you remember, the disorientation happened in January 2020. This is in July 2020. So this is, you know, seven months later. So we go back out to the meadow and of course it's overgrown now. It's more vegetation since it's July. And we go to the place where I stepped out of the creek. And you look across the creek in the. In the middle of. It's a small island. And I'm talking, you know, maybe 20 inches wide, 24 inches wide, about maybe 12ft. It's, you know, just like a very small island in, in the creek or the small river in, in the middle of that island, there's a sapling. And the sapling is probably 12ft high. And the top of that sapling has been formed into a perfect oval, like the top of an ankh, almost fastened, you know, right in the place where I think I lost my bearings and orientation. Now, why is that significant? Number one is it's on a small little island in a creek. You can't take a ladder out there. There's really nowhere to put a ladder. It's a 1 1/2 inch sapling. It wouldn't support a ladder. You couldn't bend it down without breaking it. So how did the top get formed into a perfect oval exactly like the top of an Egyptian ankh? Now, you go back and you look at that symbol, the symbolism of that. A lot of people call that symbol, that oval symbol, Keyway symbol, the galactic keyway. And you see that a lot in places that are associated with portals, doorways, a mechanism to enter into another reality. That's 40 yards from where we saw the cube.
- [85:24]
Host 1
Yeah. And that's where you turned around at the door, huh? You kind of walked right up to it.
- [85:28]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [85:30]
Host 2
Let me ask you this, Trey, you said before that you know, it'll keep throwing. Throwing you kind of curveballs.
- [85:38]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [85:38]
Host 2
Meadow throws you curveballs. Is there any part of you there.
- [85:42]
Host 1
Seems to be like a government misinformation disinformation campaign?
- [85:47]
Host 2
No, not so much that it's like, you know, it's reasonable to it to assume, given the. The strangeness of it, that there is an intelligence going on here. Is there any part of you that wonders, is it giving you little things that you can handle along your journey? Because it couldn't. The way you described it before is like being a child showing up to a construction site and pretty much agitating the construction workers.
- [86:15]
Host 1
Are you saying, like, is it. Is it interested in teaching? Is that what you're asking?
- [86:19]
Host 2
Kind of, yeah.
- [86:20]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [86:20]
Host 2
Where it's like, it'll give you a thing and it'll throw you a curveball, and it's like, chew on that for a while. And then you chewed on it and you've done the research, you come back, it throws you something else.
- [86:30]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, the. The phenomena is now becoming more intimate. You know, like, it. We've now got people physically being touched. You know, we've got, you know, we've.
- [86:41]
Host 1
Got the woman pulled off the bed, right?
- [86:44]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, well, that was more that. That's more akin to, like an abduction phenomena. That's a whole other. You know, I've got the whole transcript of that hypnotic aggression in my second book. But, yeah, that's. That's more like, you know, alien abduction stuff. So it's like, okay, now how does that tie into what we're doing? You know, she's having this phenomenon now at home, and it's like it's becoming more intimate. It's like it's developed a. This NHI has developed a rapport with us. You know, now we're getting some people having, like, precognitive thoughts. You know, we had a really weird case back in. I'm looking at my notes here. Let's see. This was actually in. Was it October of 2022? Yeah, sometime. But. Oh, no, I'm sorry. May. May of 2023, we had a new team member, and she had been taken out to the top of that ridge with one of my senior researchers. And she kept feeling that she was being watched. She said, I feel like something is creeping around watching us, like Gollum. And she said, I'm just not comfortable now. This was her first time out there. Her. We actually brought a. A psychotherapist and hypnotic therapist, hypnotherapist onto our. Our team, onto our staff. And that was her husband. And she said, hey, can we go back with the other groups? I'm just not comfortable. And it's like, sure, you know, we don't want anyone to be uncomfortable. That's not what we do. So as they were Moving across the top of the ridge. Those of us down below could see an orb tracking them just out of their sight, you know. And so she gets back and she explains, you know, that she saw this or felt like something was low and slinking along the ground, ground. And, you know, it was real uncomfortable. Turn the page. The next night, we go out and we have, like, 12 people surrounding the meadow with our. All of our equipment. And during the debrief back at base camp, one of my thermal operators said that he detected a creature moving across the meadow, and he jumped in his normalcy bias. And he. He said, oh, well, it must have been a bear or maybe a hog or something, because we were talking about, you know, some of the feral creatures, you know, out here. I said, so you. You captured it, right? You recorded. And he goes, no, I thought it was just like a bear or a feral hog. And I said, lee, what kind of animal is going to move through an open space surrounded by 12 people? You know, somebody's going to be upwind of this thing. And he stopped and he said, oh, oh. And I said, do you remember what happened? If you ever read the book Hunt for the Skinwalker, they had a doorway or a portal and something crawled out of it. And I said, and do you remember what Christy said last night, the night before, about something slinking along the ground? That was precognition.
- [89:52]
Host 1
You know, it's also strange. Like, that's. That's a strange occurrence, but like a. My aunt who saw a UFO in Brooklyn, New York, she sees the thing, and I want to have her on just to discuss it. But the strangest part is after they see this and it's a huge one, like a mothership shoots off, they go back and they watch Jeopardy. Like, yeah, yeah. It's like a normalcy thing. And it's almost implied on them or imparted on them.
- [90:18]
Host 2
Yeah, that.
- [90:19]
Host 1
That. Yeah, that's fine. And then they go on, they go to sleep, and then the next day it's.
- [90:23]
Trey Hudson
They.
- [90:23]
Host 1
It was only the next day that they remember, because now there's articles about it and people are speaking, right? Like, yeah, something slinking along the ground. The guy goes, whatever.
- [90:31]
Host 2
It's only ever in hindsight that people go back and they go, like, that's not a rational way to behave.
- [90:36]
Host 1
That's not. Yeah, what I just did. There was not. I mean, that's not even what he's supposed to be doing. You're there investigating, so everything should be suspicious.
- [90:43]
Host 2
But that's.
- [90:44]
Host 1
That's crazy, huh?
- [90:45]
Trey Hudson
But don't fear. In November, when Tony and his team were out there, we caught it on video, the same thing on thermal. And it was a huge slinking creature right there where the box was. The cube was back in 2017. So I reached out to some people and like I said, MUFON has, is helping me with some stuff. Also Stephen Leah, who is the founder and president of Quantum Worlds or. Yeah, Quantum World, Quantum Analysis. And he probably seen him on Skinwalker Ranch and some of the other shows. He takes the images and they start doing quantum analysis. And the quantum analysis of that particular footage shows that there are faces surrounding that. And then the independent quantum analysis by Muon shows. I'm sorry, no, Stephen, Stephen's analysis, he sent an email to me and he says, hey, why would I see a linear structure to the right of the slinking creature? It's like there's almost like a vertical line there, like a box. And I said, that's because that's where the cube was in 2017. And the quantum analysis shows that that cube was still there. So I have to wonder, was the cube existing in November of 2024 and did something come out of it? And that was what, you know, Tony and I picked up on our thermals.
- [92:15]
Host 1
It's a. The crazy question is what you're asking is not did the cube exist, but when did the cube exist?
- [92:20]
Host 2
Or is it. Is it still currently there?
- [92:23]
Trey Hudson
But that's it, you know, does it exist? You know, pretty much concurrently with our investigations, but it's just out of our realm of, you know, perception. And what the quantum analysis does is the theory is that, you know, when you take a photograph or a video that there, there are quantum layers. You know, you can go back to the first neutrinos at the creation of the universe that, you know, all data is exist. If you go and look in the Bible, I am the Alpha, I am the Omega, which tends. Tends to make us believe that all time exists now in another realm, in another dimension. So what happens is when you take a photograph, you have that quantum entanglement of all of reality in that photograph. And you can extrapolate that data and show you some things that were hidden to the naked eye. And one of the things that were a. The numerous faces around and then this box or cube. So it shows that we are not alone. There are always these entities around us. Yeah. Existing in another dimension.
- [93:28]
Host 1
Well, they exist. I'm sorry, I got now because now the idea is on my brain here. But so obviously we're dealing with time in A strange linear fashion here on Earth where it's like start middle, right? And they're not. This, this. No, no, no dimension. Yeah. They're. They're dealing with it very much like straight on this way. Have you had any remote viewers? And I don't know. I, I know a little bit about remote viewing and I know that they can kind of. They, they say that they can go and look at different time periods if they have the coordinates. And I don't know what this means, but have you had them look at the coordinates in the past, specific time periods where that spot is?
- [94:05]
Trey Hudson
I have not. I need to, I need to reach out and do that.
- [94:08]
Host 2
That's an interesting move because I feel.
- [94:09]
Host 1
Like you've, like, you've located the where, but you haven't located the when, right? You guys are seeing it intermittently during, you know, in a span of over seven years or 2017 to 2016. There's some sighting of it 2024. So it appears and then it doesn't. And who knows when it's visible, but something was there or will be. That, that. Wow, what a crazy.
- [94:32]
Host 2
It also seems like you're dealing with things of varying nature. So there's, there's this element that wants to be maybe discovered and it, and it gives you certain things to interact with and certain things to chew on. But then there's this other element. The, the pulling of the leg while you're sleeping. The, the, the knocked. Right. This, this idea of like a, of a, of a, of a night goddess and these, these grays. There's, there's definitely seems to be.
- [94:57]
Host 1
There's a third element.
- [94:58]
Host 2
What's the third element?
- [94:59]
Host 1
The third element is just the doorway, the ankh of what this thing is. It is a.
- [95:04]
Host 2
It's letting in things of varying nature because it's, it's, it's. It's a door. My doorway doesn't give a damn who comes through it. It's just facilitating the entry, you know?
- [95:13]
Trey Hudson
Huh. And I just realized I have a. Actually I think I have a photograph of the, the ank thing, the sapling, so you can keep on talking while I'm looking.
- [95:23]
Host 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what I mean by, by that is like whatever you're, it's almost like you're, you're in a little bit of a tug of war, right? So you're going to this area, you're interacting, and there are things that probably don't have your best interest, but then there are other things that seem to have a vested interest in being discovered. Right. Like a slinking creature doesn't seek to be discovered.
- [95:45]
Trey Hudson
Right.
- [95:45]
Host 2
But then, you know, other things that are leaving little clues behind or, or, you know, facilitating travel or whatever the case may be. I don't know, it feels like there's an element of negativity which seems obvious, but then there's an element of things that want to teach.
- [96:03]
Host 1
It's an element of. This is just activity. Like you've been in the Middle east and I've read a bunch of Scott Horton's books about what happened there. Like, you know, what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq and there's so many different factions.
- [96:15]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [96:16]
Host 1
Going out like from before the Iraq war, before, you know, Afghanistan and our influence in there. It's like to understand what was happening, we can just point and say terrorists or we can point and say ghosts or aliens. But it's really. There's a lot going on, dude.
- [96:28]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, yeah. There's a, you know, my opinion is there's a whole other reality, you know, and if you. Are you familiar with the, the thought experiment of Plato's Cave. It was a thought experiment done by the. Plato's Cave is, you know, we're the, we're the prisoners tied up to the rock. We can't even look down and see the, the true dimension of ourselves. We think we're two dimensional beings like the shadows we see on the cave wall. Only when we, you know, become aware, you know, we, we have a transpersonal experience, do we look and say, whoa, we're three dimensional creatures. And take that even further. Is that squishy thing inside of your skull that we call a brain is actually a multi dimensional organ. Any part of it exists in another dimension. There's been some science that shows that there are actual quantum interactions inside of your brain. And that's how the brains work so fast. It can retrieve information so quick. It's actually communicating on a quantum scale. The actual entanglement that defies time and space. So we are multi dimensional being. We're just trapped in our limited understanding of our, our true natures. But before I forget it, I'm going to show you the picture of that, that sapling. Let's see if I can get.
- [97:41]
Host 1
One second, let's.
- [97:42]
Host 2
Can we make him full screen right there? Oh yeah, look at that.
- [97:44]
Trey Hudson
Huh?
- [97:45]
Host 1
That's. That is very unique.
- [97:47]
Host 2
Things don't grow that way.
- [97:48]
Host 1
Yeah, things don't grow that way.
- [97:51]
Host 2
That's fascinating.
- [97:53]
Trey Hudson
So and so. Yeah. What do you say?
- [97:56]
Host 2
Yeah, I mean, there's nothing to say. You just keep going back and you Keep.
- [98:00]
Host 1
It's. What's interesting, too, is you said that that was evident when you came back, when the foliage was, like, growing a little bit more. Right?
- [98:08]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [98:09]
Host 1
So it's like this speaks to that idea of, well, maybe this is not accessible during certain time frames. Or maybe it's only slightly accessible. Right.
- [98:19]
Trey Hudson
Or maybe it's a subtle clue. Maybe it's a kind of like a subtle nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Yeah, you know, we know what you're looking for.
- [98:25]
Host 2
Well, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. That's why I feel like there's enough. There's this aspect of something trying to teach you.
- [98:30]
Host 1
Do you think.
- [98:31]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [98:32]
Host 1
Do you think that we're supposed to. Do you think that God wants us to look into these things?
- [98:38]
Host 2
That's a great question.
- [98:39]
Trey Hudson
Fair question. Okay. During the first part of Genesis, you had the garden, and we didn't have to think about where our next meal was coming from. And I'm not talking about us, you know, here, but mankind, Adam and Eve, they didn't have to think about their next meal. They didn't have to wonder, am I going to freeze tonight? Because the temperature is going to drop, you know, am I going to be attacked by an animal? They didn't have to worry about that stuff. And then they ate fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, I. E. The Tree of Knowledge. Now they know these things. Holy smokes. There are things out there that will kill us. It does get. It can possibly get cold and us freeze to death. Where's our next meal coming from? I'm starting to worry about this and that. Drew drove them away from total faith and obedience to God. And that's, of course, in the Book of Genesis. So they're discarded from the garden. The flaming swords are put up across the garden. Man may never enter the garden again.
- [99:42]
Host 1
The ankh, they can't go back to the ankh.
- [99:46]
Trey Hudson
And so now man has to live by his wits. I have to figure out how to build shelter. I'm naked. It's going to get cold. If it's summer, okay, naked's fine. But in the wintertime, it's going to be a bit of a problem. Now I have to actually kill animals to wear their skins, almost becoming the animal. Draping myself in the skin of the animals, becoming animalistic. Okay. There's symbolism there. So man has to live by his wits. Man has to live by his intelligence. Man has to squeeze data out of the environment in order to survive. So the combat this God has given Us, this amazing mind that's perpetually inquisitive. The tree of knowledge, the tree of inquisitiveness. Now we have to want wonder. That's our nature. That's not a bad thing. That's a God given thing. Now it was, it came about in a negative way, but that's who we are. And just because something is different, unusual, or unheard of, doesn't mean it's evil. Before the, the discovery of radio, naturally occurring radio waves from quasars, that doesn't mean they didn't exist. And when they were discovered, that doesn't mean they were evil. They were just something different that we haven't discovered yet. And it's kind of like if I was wandering around in the forest and I came across something unusual, and that something unusual is a cabin out in the middle of nowhere. And I'm like, oh, wow, there's a cabin out here. And I go and I knock on the door and I say, hello, is anybody there in the cabin? And I hear a voice from the other side of the door. So say, yes, I'm here. Hey, you know, I'm out here by myself. Would you like to talk in. The voice inside of the cabin says, well, I'm not comfortable coming out, but we can talk through the door. I, I wouldn't hesitate for one second holding a conversation like that. You know, for whatever reason, that person doesn't want to come out, but maybe, you know, they just want to talk about stuff. So why would this be any different?
- [101:57]
Host 1
Yeah, it's. I mean, you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to be. Yeah, I'm not trying to like, put down what you're doing because.
- [102:06]
Trey Hudson
No, no, no, no, I didn't, I didn't get that at all.
- [102:08]
Host 1
Okay, perfect. Because what we do on this show is it's a consistent scraping at this information that's presented. And there's like, well, there's something more and we need to know. But then I often think to myself, like, well, damn, how much do I really need to know?
- [102:20]
Host 2
Yeah, well, this is the, the analogy that I always go with is be it'll.
- [102:23]
Host 1
Or.
- [102:24]
Host 2
I don't know if it's so much of an analogy, but it's like this realm is filled with unbelievable beauty and mysteries and, and wonder. Yeah. And it's like we're not meant to not observe that. Yeah, it's. The problem is when you think that you can put your hands on the controls and bend it to your advantage, which is like, you know, a story as Old as time, right? I mean, King Solomon using demonic entities to build his temple is one that we often use as an example. It's like you. Once you think that you can master a thing and bend it to your will, it is powerful and it's absolute power corrupts absolutely. But, but I mean, we live in an amazing place and to, to admire that and to be fascinated by it, I don't think at all is. Is. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. Trey, you know, I want to respect your time when we're coming up on the two hour mark, but I want to say, where are you right now in, in the development of this? Are you just, you know, you're, you're, you're taking in data, you're analyzing it, you're. You're trying to put together the piece of this puzzle and you're continuing to go back. How long do you anticipate returning to this place? How long is your team committed to. To doing things like this?
- [103:34]
Trey Hudson
What's the contract?
- [103:35]
Host 2
You're not.
- [103:36]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, well, at all. Yeah, no, I'm not retired. You know, I plan on going back as long as I can. And you know, my, you know, my goal is to continue to research this amazing place. Okay. And in, in researching it, my, My basic desire has always been to share the information. I. The only thing that I keep, you know, close to my vest is the location. I invite guest researchers. I can give you some names of people that you would recognize that have come out as guest researchers. That's why I was very open with Tony and his team. I said, guys, this is your project. We will facilitate your visit out here this week. So tell me what you want to do, because this is your experience, not mine, and share that experience, you know, good or bad, share it. So, you know, that's kind of my goal is to continue to put this information out there, you know, by whatever means possible. You know, I write books, you know, we've got a documentary out. You know, if something else comes along the line. That was one of the things when I made the contract with Ward and Dark Holler, I said, you do not have exclusivity to. This is if somebody comes along and wants to make a TV episode, show, episode out of this, I want the ability to do that because I want to share this with the world as broad as possible. So that's kind of my goal. And it keeps me off the streets, you know, know, keeps me out of the juke joints and all of that. So, yeah, you know, I'm just going to continue as long as, you know, God, you know, gives me the, the health and the. The wisdom, you know, in the desire to go out there and explore these mysteries. I'm that guy.
- [105:15]
Host 2
Is, Is there any subterranean access?
- [105:18]
Host 1
That's it. I got. I got two more questions for you. But, yeah, subterranean axis is a big one.
- [105:23]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, no, no, not that I know. We haven't found anything. Now, this, this, this area, you know, does have caves. It's. It's, you know, it's part of that whole cave system in the southern United States, but not directly. Not that I found. That doesn't mean it's not out there and I haven't stumbled across it yet, but, no, not that I know of. All right.
- [105:42]
Host 1
Okay. Yeah, we've been big fans of cave activity and especially in Indiana. One question, just speculation. What if. If. If this gets presented to the world, it goes viral and people start seeing this, what do you expect to see see with this area? Not, not as far as, like, people going to it, but, like, activity on it? Do you expect to see an uptick, or do you think that things will, like, die down, remain the same?
- [106:08]
Trey Hudson
That's a good question. A couple of ways to look at that. You know, I always really limit access to the area. I don't want to wear it out. I mean, that's kind of a weird concept. But, you know, something I found is if you keep going to an area like, you know, all the time time, you can really diminish the results. So, you know, we might go six months, you know, before we go back out there and let it rest, you know, let it return.
- [106:33]
Host 1
I don't mean physically, Trey.
- [106:34]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, yeah, with the documentary. Well, and if that thing goes viral, I always wonder if more people talking about it and thinking about it are going to create a psychic gestalt that will energize, you know, the activity. Now that, I don't know. That's. That's an interesting, know, thought experiment, you know, whether it wouldn't. But, you know, more people talking about it, more people thinking about it, more people wondering about it, is that. Is that going to create its own, you know, manifestation? You know, is that going to change the quantum nature of the place and we're going to start having all kinds of phenomena? I don't know. It's going to be kind of fun to find out.
- [107:11]
Host 2
Have, have you found at all that the phenomenon responds more to other individuals than.
- [107:16]
Trey Hudson
Than.
- [107:16]
Host 2
Than. Than not? And if so, have you found a common thread between those individuals?
- [107:21]
Host 1
Like RH bloodlines, right?
- [107:22]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, no, we, we haven't gone the RH bloodlines. I, I mean, I'm a positive, so I'm, you know, I'm pretty boring. But, you know, it's. What we found is some people, you know, seem to, you know, make stuff, you know, more active. But something we've tried to do and is we've actually started using a God helmet, you know, out there where we use electromagnetic stimulation in the 40 Hz range to the bihemispherical electromagnetic stimulation to create bihemispherical cooperation, much like, you know, rock the Monroe Institute. And then we focus over on the left amygdala, which is the part of the brain that is responsible for religious experiences, you know, transformative experiences, things like that. And we start pumping that with the 40 hertz of electromagnetic fields. And what we have found is that may prime the pump that take one or two people, have them go through this. This God helmet session primes the pump and makes the whole experience, the holistic thing more receptive to phenomena. So we've been experimenting with that too.
- [108:35]
Host 1
Sorry, we should, we should. We're going to end in a second. But psychedelics, hard psychedelics.
- [108:40]
Trey Hudson
Yes.
- [108:40]
Host 1
Off the table. Yes.
- [108:42]
Trey Hudson
Okay, Okay, I will. I'm trying to think how I can diplomatically say this.
- [108:47]
Host 1
Yeah, yeah.
- [108:51]
Trey Hudson
Is years and years and years I possessed a top secret slash, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah clearance. So there is no way that I was. And I had frequent drug court, quick drug test, was subject to random polygraph, you know, all that spook stuff. So that was off the table. Okay, so turn the page. The other side of that is I've been doing a lot of research with, you know, going all the way back to like Albert and Lily and those guys and bringing it all the way up to the 21st century. I do think there is value in cybercillin, DMT, you know, some of these others, because I do think that it increases a person's awareness of the multi dimensional aspect of their true being. I think there are answers there. Like anything, you know, one has to put a very strong warning. There is a person has to be in the right place, spiritually, psychologically and physically before they ever go down that road. But yeah, I do think that's an area, you know, not only because of this kind of research, but I think from mental health. I think cybosillin has done some amazing benefits for people like with, you know, manic depressive, ocd, things like that, you know, maybe even psycho psychosis, things like that.
- [110:14]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [110:14]
Trey Hudson
So, yeah, I think it's worth studying something We.
- [110:17]
Host 1
We talk about, but I tell people all the time, like, don't do it, because I. I don't know, know where you are in life, geographically, all that stuff. I'm like, I'm not going to be the guy that sends you off the deep end.
- [110:27]
Trey Hudson
Right.
- [110:27]
Host 1
But there's something there.
- [110:28]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [110:29]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, there is that. Yeah. I mean. I mean, I've had people on the team that have done ayahuasca. You know, they. They talk about what a transformative experience it is locally.
- [110:39]
Host 1
What I was asking is, like.
- [110:40]
Host 2
Locally, like, doing the meadow, is what you're saying?
- [110:43]
Host 1
Yeah. I mean, there are ayahuasca retreats where I know a couple of friends and they go. They do it. They say, so a jaguar lady. Other people say that was common. She's always here because they're in that locality. When we're talking about principalities, dominions, things like that.
- [110:57]
Trey Hudson
Yeah.
- [110:58]
Host 1
I just wonder, like, in that place like that.
- [111:00]
Trey Hudson
No, we've. No, there. There's. Yeah. No, we've never done, or nobody's ever done, you know, that kind of stuff right there. It's always been somewhere else.
- [111:09]
Host 2
Okay, final question, Trey. This is something that we like to ask our guests on the way out. And I. I have a feeling I know the answer, just given the fact that you could easily just not be doing this.
- [111:18]
Host 1
You could be retired.
- [111:20]
Host 2
But are you. Are you having fun?
- [111:23]
Trey Hudson
Yeah, you know, I'm. I'm the kid that grew up in the 70s watching, you know, Leonard Nimoy In Search of. I remember seeing the documentary Sasquatch, a Legend of Bigfoot in 19, I think, 76. So, you know, I'm kind of like this maladaptive sponge. I've always just really been interested in this stuff. And, you know, if we're not thinking, if we're not moving, if we're not exercising our curiosity, then we're not human. And I plan on being as human as possible.
- [111:53]
Host 1
I love that answer.
- [111:55]
Host 2
It's a great conversation, Trey. I hope you'll come back if there's any developments on the meadow or if there's anything else you'd like to share with the audience. This has been great. One more time, what's the name of your book? Where Can Everybody find it? And 1. When can they expect the Next one?
- [112:07]
Trey Hudson
Okay, well, the first book is the Meadow Project, Explorations in the Skins. South. South Skinwalker Ranch. That's actually on Amazon. And the second book, which is Return to the Meadow, that's out now. You can buy that. Ah, that's Further Adventures at the South Skinwalker Ranch. And so they're out there. Uh, I, I humbly ask people, you buy the books because we're self funded. You know, I mean I have pieces of equipment that are like four and $5,000 that I've, you know, funded out of pocket. So yeah, you know, high end thermals are not cheap. So, you know, that's the way we continue this research. And I promise people, as we continue the research, I will share it. So buy the books. I think, you know, six, six bucks for the audio book is a heck of a deal.
- [113:01]
Host 1
So book man. Yeah, yeah. Fail us.
- [113:07]
Trey Hudson
Go for the gusto. I mean, I like, I like physical media. Anyway, when the movie comes out, I don't know about the distribution. I think we're going to check into that. I think probably before this gets put out there, maybe we'll have some answers on distribution of that. Watch the documentary. I mean it's, it's, it's enjoyable, it's interesting and I'm not going to give the ending away, but it throws a curveball. I mean it throws a weird curveball that the team was not expecting.
- [113:35]
Host 1
So that's, you know what, maybe after this is over, I got to ask you about it because we were like, what the.
- [113:39]
Host 2
Yeah. Well, also for the audience who's listening, check the description. Because at the time of this recording we didn't have access to it, but by the time this is released we should have it. So check the description below you'll find the link for the description. Description. I mean, for the documentary.
- [113:50]
Trey Hudson
Yeah. So, you know, just what I tell people is, you know, go out there, love your friends, love your family, love God and have fun.
- [114:01]
Host 2
That's it.
- [114:01]
Host 1
I love it. I love it. And perfect man. Hey guys, this has been a great episode of Nephilim Death Squad. Until next time, don't forget to obey, submit and comply. We'll see you guys later.
- [114:11]
Host 2
The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is.
- [114:14]
Trey Hudson
A oblong box in the corner of the room. Room.
- [114:17]
Host 2
It is constantly telling us what to believe is real.
- [114:21]
Trey Hudson
You can persuade that what they see with their eyes is what there is to see.
- [114:28]
Host 1
Because they'll act in the.
- [114:30]
Trey Hudson
Face of an explanation that portrays the bigger picture of what and they have.