Fridays Are For The Lord w/ Ed Mabrie 6/12/26

Summary

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Nephilim Death Squad – “Fridays Are For The Lord w/ Ed Mabrie”

Episode Date: June 13, 2026
Hosts: David Lee Corbo (Top Lobsta), Raven
Guest: Ed Mabrie
Main Theme: Unpacking the “Paul vs. Jesus” Debate in Christian Circles, Spiritual Deception, and Biblical Interpretation.

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Episode Overview

This revelatory, fast-paced episode wades deep into one of the more contentious debates within Christianity: “Did Paul and Jesus teach contradictory paths to salvation?” Guest Ed Mabrie, a frequent and erudite contributor, joins hosts David Lee Corbo (aka Top Lobsta) and Raven to clarify history, address spiritual confusion, and provide a biblically-grounded framework. As always, the Squad blends humor, sharp cultural and theological commentary, and a willingness to challenge mainstream and fringe opinions alike.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Ed Mabrie Returns: Bible Study and Spiritual Warfare Training

• Ed shares updates about his robust resources for Christians:
  • Website: faithbyreason.net — Contains years’ worth of deep-dive biblical material, including hundreds of hours of lessons for members.
  • Spiritual Warfare Course: Now permanently half price. The course is structured in four quarters (defense, offense, special situations, and “being generative”). Features weekly lessons; higher-tier members receive live coaching.
  • Patreon: patreon.com/faithbyreason — Offers exclusive content, including myth-busting episodes (e.g., myths about Cain), and a monthly Bible study “through the supernatural point of view.”

“We’ve cut the price in half permanently... It’s really more important to us that we get this information out because spiritual warfare is huge right now.” – Ed (06:43)

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2. Main Topic: Paul vs. Jesus Controversy in Christian Culture

Time-stamp Start: 09:36

a. Background of the Debate

• Some contemporary teachers and online figures (“Jesus-only” proponents, e.g., Aaron Abel) claim Jesus and Paul taught conflicting means of salvation:
  • Jesus: Salvation by “doing the will of the Father” (works).
  • Paul: Salvation by faith/grace, “not by works.”
• Others go further (e.g., Professor Jang) to suggest Paul was a Roman “psyop” meant to distort Christ’s message (14:56).

“The false premise is that Jesus and Paul were talking to the same people under the same circumstances. They were not.” – Ed (19:00)

b. Biblical and Historical Context

• Jesus's Ministry:
  • Addressed to first-century Israelites who were still under the Law.
  • The “New Testament” proper (salvation by faith/grace) begins at Acts 2 (Pentecost), not Matthew.
  • Jesus spoke about works because his audience was still waiting for the Messiah and under the requirements of Mosaic Law.
• Paul’s Ministry:
  • Addressed post-Resurrection believers (Christians—those with the indwelling Holy Spirit).
  • The Law was fulfilled (“already cleaned the house”), and now salvation is by grace through faith.
  • Paul’s corrections were often about churches drifting back into legalism.

“Jesus was NOT talking to Christians [in his earthly ministry]...They didn’t exist.” – Ed (22:03)

c. Explaining Grace and Works

• Popular Christian definition of “grace” as “unmerited favor” is flawed; it’s better understood biblically as “the divine influence on the heart and its reflection in life”.
• Good works are the fruit (effect) of salvation, not its cause (17:15).

“Salvation is the cause; your good works are the effect.” – Ed (17:16)

• Legalistic Agendas:
  Some push “Paul vs. Jesus” to reimpose performance-based religion—because rules grant church leaders power and control (36:12).

d. Analogy: The Pizza Party (37:24)

• “Jesus’s message to Israelites under law was ‘get ready, clean up’. Paul’s message to Christians is ‘enjoy the party’—because the prep has been done.”

"If I've already done the work...why are you coming in to do it again?...Go and enjoy the damn pizza." – Ed (41:04)

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3. Free Will, Predestination, and the Nature of Evil

Starts ~66:51

• Does God know all future choices?
  • Ed argues: God knows all existing information, but the future is not fixed until choices are made. Otherwise, there is no true free will.
  • Calvinism and “omniscience” debates create more logical problems than they solve (“If you have no choice then you can’t truly love”).

“If God knows everything we’re going to do before we do it, then there’s no such thing as free will… and if we can’t choose, then we can’t love.” – Ed (67:36)

• The Justice of God:

  • “Why does God allow suffering/evil?”—Because he cannot override justice and free will (70:10).
  • God only intervenes (e.g., in healing) when justice is satisfied, often through prayer.

• Hell and Aion:

  • Discussion about whether “eternal” punishment (aeon) really means infinite, or simply “a long duration.”
  • Is hell’s fire literally torment or the experience of being less than God intended (“Heaven is hotter than hell... The torment of hell is knowing you’ll never be what you were meant to be”) (87:16).

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4. The Myths about Cain

Begins 56:28 – Ed’s recent research

• Origin of the “Mark of Cain”:

  • Myths: Cain’s descendants are reptilian, the origin of “lizard people,” or bear a literal mark (white or dark skin).
  • Ed debunks using scripture & logic: The text never names the mark, nor suggests it’s hereditary, nor ties it to any one ethnicity (91:41).
  • ALL Cain’s descendants (like all but Noah’s family) died in the flood. We’re all descended from Noah (93:21).

• Serpent Seed Theory:

  • Refuted. The Bible uses language literally in Genesis; “eating the fruit” is not a euphemism for having sex with the serpent (60:30).

“If eating of the tree meant sex with an Elohim, then what does He mean by saying you can eat of any tree? Have sex with anyone?” – Ed (61:19)

• Danger of Mishandling Scripture:
  Misreading Genesis leads to bizarre and divisive speculative theology (e.g., claims that various ethnic groups are marked, or are the “real Israelites”) (94:12).

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5. Why So Many Denominations? The Dangers of Dogma & Theories

• The show wraps on the importance of humility in theology: “Be open to your theories being wrong. The trouble begins when you start declaring your speculation as truth” (97:13).
• Denominations often exist because one wrong or unsupported interpretation dominoes into greater division.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Works and Faith:
  “If your faith is real, it’s going to produce good works. More rewards.” – Ed (17:03)

• On Jesus and Paul’s different audiences:
  “If you see a contradiction, you don’t need to change the Bible—you need to change your premise.” – Ed (19:02)

• On Religious Legalism:
  “Religion is when you add your man-made stuff onto what God said... Every time we add on, we screw it up.” – Ed (33:15)

• On Human Error and Pride:
  “We get religious...because we want to improve on God.” – Ed (34:02)

• On Suffering:
  "Why do we suffer? God could heal everyone tomorrow if He wanted, but God cannot act outside of justice." – Ed (74:23)

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Important Timestamps

• Show content starts: 01:53
• Ed's resources & updates: 03:55 – 08:38
• Paul vs. Jesus background and intro: 09:36
• Biblical audiences & Law/Faith explanation: 18:43 – 27:13
• Analogy – Pizza Party: 37:24 – 41:21
• Free Will, God’s Omniscience, Human Suffering: 66:51 – 75:16
• Cain Myths & Mark of Cain: 56:28 – 93:21
• Denominations & being open to correction: 95:29 – 98:19

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Tone & Style

The conversation is irreverently funny, deeply researched, at times raw and confrontational (and sometimes playfully trolling “organized religion”), but always rooted in seeking scriptural truth and authentic faith.

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Memorable/Entertaining Moments

• The running joke: “If I've already done the work... Enjoy the damn pizza.” (Ed, 41:04)
• Savage banter on soccer: “Soccer is not a real sport, and it’s more— it’s an abomination to sports.” (David, 42:11)
• The "trash can at the zoo" conversation about David’s conception (99:07 – 100:02)
• Raven on denominational bickering: “We’re not trying to start a new church... I just don’t like that.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode is an indispensable, accessible resource for anyone confused by the faith/works debate, or turned off by the legalism or speculative “conspiracies” rampant in modern Christian debate culture. Mabrie’s insights clarify how context, not contradiction, explains differences between Jesus and Paul—and how a correct understanding of scripture brings both freedom and responsibility.

Best for listeners hungry for both laughs and learning—no matter where they are on their spiritual journey.

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Find Ed Mabrie:

• faithbyreason.net
• patreon.com/faithbyreason

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Listen, laugh, challenge your assumptions. Stay curious. Stay dangerous.

Transcript

[Ed Mabry]

What's up everybody?

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[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I started Ornod in 2013 and we make bike apparel.

[Ed Mabry]

The best part of Shopify for me

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

is our ability to run the business as essentially non technical people. We're able to admin everything on the back end, front end and sell things online easily. If Shopify were a bike accessory, I

[Ed Mabry]

think it would actually be the bicycle.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's the thing that you do the thing on.

[Ed Mabry]

We run the business on Shopify.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Start your free trial on shopify.com hey

[Ed Mabry]

everyone, it's Olivia Culpo and I can't wait to tell you all about Abercrombie's new summer collection. All their new dresses in colorful swim feel perfect for a Euro summer. And Abercrombie has a new 100% linen collection. It's the perfect mix of looking put together and elevated with the lightness and comfort of linen. Shop Abercrombie this summer in the app online and in stores.

[Raven]

Relate Top Lobster productions.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

When the last trumpet sounds and the heavens crack. Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation and Fridays are for the Lord. Do we have that explosion button?

[Raven]

Oh, we do.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

No, not that one. It doesn't work anymore. Anyway. There it goes. Hell yeah. Hot 97. Before we get into today's discussion with Ed Mabry, a little reminder guys. A great place.

[Raven]

This guy said. Hot 97.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Hot 97 a great place to support us. Patreon.com forward/nephilim death Squad. Sign up there. Gain early access to episodes before the general public. Also, hey, there's Ed. There's also ad free listening experiences and access to communities of dangerous retards on Twitter, on Discord and on Telegram. Also on Discord is where we're having our weekly Bible studies. Has nothing to do with me or Top. It's actually just the homies that are self proclaimed dangerous retards. Listeners of the show. The community has come together to make a Bible study and it's been going fantastic. If you're interested in that. I don't know what we'll do. We'll figure out a way to get it to you. Hit us up and complain that you don't have a link. Also discount codes off of merchandise and top lobster.com where not only which Ed is going to be at. Wow. Which is like, man, it took four bohemian groves to get Ed Mabry, our number one guest and, and, and, and favorite attendee to the show, four live events to finally get him to one.

[Raven]

But he is gonna be there.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well, he is there. He was there in the bottom corner here. Good God.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay, I, I replaced Nancy. What happened?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

We're, we're looking forward to actually finally getting you in person and, and to be a part of an event that, you know, wouldn't be possible without. I could say this. It wouldn't be possible without Ed. Ed makes up at least one fifth of our content, you know, in the amount of returns that he's.

[Ed Mabry]

I need to ask for a raise then you guys.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Actually, no, this is non negotiable. There will not be any.

[Raven]

15 is 0.

[Ed Mabry]

15.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

So guys, go toplobster.com get your tickets. Ed, it's great back. And we were talking a little bit before.

[Raven]

I mean, you were talking about audio content. You should just use the appearance.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah. You could use every episode. Oh, you know, then we gotta send it to him. And, and we're just terrible.

[Raven]

Do it.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah. Because he said before, that's a great idea. Why don't you send me that? And I personally said absolutely. And then not.

[Ed Mabry]

You never sent me anything.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah. Never did that at all. So that's entirely our fault. But you should do that.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay, I should do that. I should keep bugging you guys. What are you doing?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Before the show started, we were talking about some really interesting things. We said, what are we going to discuss today? And you brought up something that was a bit of a surprise to me. This. And people might not know it if they're not online. Although I'm sure this is something just in, in, you know, Christian circles. This sort of budding of heads when it comes to. Or a perceived butting of heads, I should say, when it comes to Paul and Jesus and very recently.

[Raven]

Wait, before we get into that, you got to tell people where you can find.

[Ed Mabry]

Oh yeah, people find you.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I'm so sorry.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, so you can find me and two primary places. The first, there's my website, faithbyreason.net so there's like everything I've been doing for many years that I need that. We were talking about just finding different ways to get it out there because right now it's sitting there. If you, if you're a member of Faith by Reason, you have access to all of it. It's tons, hundreds of hours of stuff there. But I need to start getting that out to everybody, everyone in different ways. You'll still be, you still get the premium stuff if you become a member. But you know, getting that information out there is a huge deal. Also you can see there's the spiritual warfare course which is going great with three months into the 12 month course where we're finishing the first because the first three months are all about defense and knowing yourself and, and you know, in the next three months are going to be about offense and then we go into special situations and then finally being generative, like taking what you've learned and teaching it to others to kind of build an army. And the good news about that is that we've cut the price in half permanently because there were some folks who you know, found the price to be a bit of a barrier and understandable, you know, but myself and John, we're, you know, we both do consulting and we have tried to, we tried to build in our consulting fees at reduction to that, but some folks were still like, you know, it's a bit much and I get it. It's really more important to us that we get this information out because Spiritual warfare is huge right now. And so we. So the price is now in half permanently. There's no coupon code that, you know, we used to have a coupon code for like the first couple months, but now it is half price. So if that was a barrier to you before, go to Faith by reason dot net. There's a sign up right there, you can get bored. It's not too late to get caught up. New lessons every week. And if you go to the higher tier, we have a lower tier. If you just want to see the videos and use the workbooks and read the books that we've made available. But if you want to get live coaching with myself and John for like two hours every month, you there's a hire, you can do that and so you can come aboard and catch up pretty quickly, you know, self paced. But yeah, please come aboard. We're people are already telling us it's. They have more confidence to change their lives already and we're only three months into the 12 months.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's awesome.

[Ed Mabry]

So the other place is Patreon. Patreon is where things, everything drops first like the, the episode that just did on the myths about Kane because they. Everyone makes Kane their boogeyman. For all the evil, all the big evil in the world. Like is he a reptilian? Who is his real daddy? Satan is did he marry Lilith or the Sophia. All this kind of crazy stuff. We. I, I saw you see that. That's the most recent post there. You can also be part of. Of my Bible study. Not to be confused with the Nephilim death squad Bible study. Both of which are great but you know mine, mine is.

[Raven]

Is better.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well you're actually leading yours where whereas. And this is definitely not a slate to. To ours but ours is just the community getting together and, and doing this on their own accord. Which I think is fantastic. But you're dropping by that one sometime.

[Ed Mabry]

If I.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It happens on Wednesdays and I've been to two of them. We've. They've only done three and it's just fantastic. Really to me it's, it's. It's heartening to know like that any good fruits are coming from. From. You know what I mean? What is coming from this atrocity of a show that we do well a weekly Bible study. How about that? That's actually very cool.

[Ed Mabry]

So yeah in mine is monthly where we go the Ent in one year from the supernatural point of view. So we're looking behind the veil at what's going on in the Elohim realm. So that's primary and what's going on on Earth is kind of secondary because that's really the whole point of Jesus. Could be Billy Carson's ass.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Ed could beat Billy Carson's ass. Let's go. We're setting it up.

[Ed Mabry]

Isn't he running for president now?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh my God, dude, he is.

[Ed Mabry]

I heard that somewhere. Maybe it was on one of your shows.

[Raven]

But I heard that it was us that told you. And yeah, you weren't happy about it back then. I see you're still not happy about it.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

No. Rejoice guys. We're gonna be saved. Y so, so one more time, were those two websites.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah. Faithbyreason.net and patreon.com faithbyreason you don't get. And this has been some confusion. So Patreon is separate from the spiritual warfare class because I have some people who've tried to sign up on Patreon. It's not there. Patreon doesn't allow me to do the coursework there. So it's on faith by reason dot net. So the course is there. So just so there's no confusion.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Gotcha. Okay guys, you heard them. So. So I'm eager to get into this conversation. The way that it's been painted and, and you kind of shed some light on this before the show started was Jesus says, you know, do the will of my Father. And, and it. And people seem to interpret Christ's words as. As works as opposed to faith is the key to salvation. Whereas then others will paint Paul as having said explicitly, faith and not works is, is the key to salvation. And I'm actually kind of surprised that that is anybody's consensus. But, but, but it is. Nevertheless Top was accused of that. Which was confusing. Right? We. You were defending the Bible.

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[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

And somebody accused you of putting Paul over Jesus, which was a strange accusation. I didn't even understand the context.

[Raven]

Yeah, I don't know. We got into it again with what's his name?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh, Jacob Israel.

[Raven]

Yeah, Jacob Israel. And like we finally address him like hey, shut up.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah.

[Raven]

And then they accused me of that and I was kind of perplexed. It's like, yeah, there's, there's something that I must be missing. So that's what's going on in the underbelly of Christian debate culture.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah. I think what you pushed back against was this idea that he said, there will not be a man returning. Jesus will not return. It is Christ in you that will return in you. You will not see a man. This is not what it's Christ consciousness effectively is, is what he's propagating. And so somehow a pushback against that is to elevate Paul above Jesus, which I didn't know was a thing. I guess there's more to that.

[Ed Mabry]

I didn't know that it was either until a couple years ago when I started hearing about it and getting some questions because I learned about a lot of stuff that's going on in the Cultural Zeitgeist from my subscribers and people who are in my comments asking me questions which I appreciate because you know, I'm usually heads down doing my work or doing faith by reason because I put in a lot of work and Research into that. So I don't watch a ton of tv. I don't watch a lot of. Listen to a lot of podcasts or videos, except for Nephilim Death Squad, of course. No, seriously, I haven't even heard. I haven't listened to like Sam Tripoli in like months. I got to catch him on his show. But. But I heard about it and they, they. And so it's apparently a bigger deal than I thought. There are some prominent people in it. Who. One of them is a guy by the name. I think his name is Aaron Abel. Okay. He's kind of a. A chad type. You know, he's like, you know, not a bodybuilder. No, he's like big in shape guy and he has this thing called the Jesus. I'm not gonna. Jesus only ministry. It's not. That's nothing of his ministry. I don't remember it, but it's something like, you know, just the Jesus way, I think is what it's called. And he talks about how there's this dichotomy between the message of Jesus and the message of Paul. And he basically says that Jesus, they taught salvation differently, they taught grace differently. And that Jesus was all about what, doing the will of my Father. You know, all the things he talks about in the Beatitudes, you know, how to. How to be like God, you know, to turn the other cheek, you know, go the extra mile, be, you know, the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have to do unto you. So Jesus was all about doing things in order to please God and be in God's will and salvation. It seems to be about doing things with Jesus. But then you get to Paul, he says, and Paul says that salvation is grace. Is grace and faith, the grace of God, which leads to the faith in God. And then there is no works. Paul talks about that deliberately and, and at. At nauseam in the book of Galatians and in Ephesians and in Romans. It's all about. It's not about your works. And he says that that is a contradiction to what Jesus says. And so they can't both be right. And so Paul is essentially a false apostle. He was a false prophet. Then you have people go a little further, like, what's his name? Professor. Professor. Put in quotes. Professor Zhang, the. The Chinese Billy Carson. Because he's.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I've never absorbed any content from her, but he just keeps coming up in conversation. Maybe I should look at it.

[Ed Mabry]

So he is. Well, he was completely. He was shown to be a fraud by, by Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer completely exposed him. Professor. He claims he's a professor in, in China who, like, went to school in Yale. Well, first of all, he, he did go to Yale, but he went to a university of Yale in China, no relation to the Yale, the Ivy League school on the East Coast. But he never differentiates that he just went to a. Some random college that was called Yale in China. And he's not a professor. He's a middle school teacher.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh, very sneaky.

[Ed Mabry]

Very. Oh, yeah. So props to Jay Dyer for, For exposing.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yes, but technically, no. Right.

[Raven]

Like, yeah. So this is what I've been caught up on, like, because of the orthodox debacle, all that, that crap that happened. Jay Dyer is. He's announced that he stepped back from Christian debate, but that's it. Like debating theology or apologetics, which is an interesting turn of events. I mean, he still has so much to offer to the table, but that's like, what I was paying attention to. And I got hit from the side with the whole Paul versus Jesus thing. I'm like, right, what are you doing, guys?

[Ed Mabry]

Well, just to. To wrap it up with Jang, he. He has gone in front of his audience and interesting. Whenever you see his videos, he's in front of a classroom, but you never see who he's talking to. He tried to makes it seem like he's giving a college lecture. There's nobody there. He's a fraud. But he comes out with the same thing that Paul. He goes further than this Aaron Abel guy. He actually doesn't just say that Paul was a false prophet. He says Paul was an intentional psyop by the Romans to stop Christianity by completely destroying the message of Jesus and giving a different message. So, and, and it's, it's more prominent than I thought it was, and I'm hearing it a lot. And when you read the comments of people who, in these videos by Zhang and by Abel and other people in this realm, people are saying, yeah, you. I never liked Paul. You know, I, I always thought that Paul's message was different than Jesus. And I'm, I'm not, I'm not all about this just believing by faith. A lot of Catholics feel this way because, you know, Catholicism is all about works.

[Raven]

Yeah.

[Ed Mabry]

In Catholicism, it's basically when you believe in Jesus, that starts you on the path of salvation. You're not saved. You, you're, you know that you're just basically getting into the car of salvation now. You got to drive down the road and do all these things like, you know, pray to Mary, rub rosary beads Confess your sins to a priest, you know, give indulgences, take the Eucharist every Sunday.

[Raven]

Right.

[Ed Mabry]

So it's all about works. And when I've debated Catholics, I mean, a good friend. Well, I consider him a good friend. I think he doesn't like me anymore because I keep ragging on Catholicism. And he says, you know, that, that salvation by faith alone is like completely. He said same thing. It's completely not biblical. And that in that it, it, of course it clashes with the Catholic traditions. Who cares about traditions made up by these pedophiles and robes. But what. Yeah, you can see how, what a high opinion I have with them. But yeah, they're very much about the works and that. And it's almost like they feel like they're not doing enough, like just accepting Jesus gift. Well, thanks, Jesus, but now I want to do a whole bunch of stuff.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well, that's, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding is still very limited. But doesn't, doesn't Jesus, explicit, like he

[Raven]

says, do also these things?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well, it's, it's. Faith is the salvation, but that works are the fruits of faith. And it's almost not. It's like telling you, like this is what's going to come out of your faith is, is good works.

[Ed Mabry]

Right, Right. It's an effect. Salvation is the cause, your good work.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Like, that's how you're gonna know, like, you know, if you're, if your faith is real, it's going to produce good works, more rewards.

[Ed Mabry]

I mean, Jesus had two messages when he was on Earth, primarily salvation and reward. And there, and, and this. There's a difference. Salvation is, is more, is more quantitative. It's yes or no either. Saved, you're not saved. Reward is, is. Yeah, I'm sorry. Salvation is qualitative. Excuse me. Either you have it or you don't. No, I've got it backwards again. It's quantitative. Qualitative is reward. There's gonna be different levels of reward. You know, the, the famous parable of the, of the, of the talents or the meanest. Some, some will get 10, some will get five, some get one, you know, based on what they do. So you're gonna. People in heaven can have different levels of reward. You know, someone who's been a Christian for, you know, 30 years and does good works and, and helps people, they're going to get more of a reward than someone who confesses on their deathbed and, you know, believes in Jesus right before they die. Because they don't. They don't have any good works. They're both safe, they'll both be spend eternity with, with God. But one will have more reward than the other. But that's, but different messages.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Okay, that's interesting. So, so how, how do you think, how are people, I, I suppose misconceptualizing this and creating these, these straw mans versus what, what does the scripture actually say?

[Ed Mabry]

Sure. So yeah, let's break it down. So let's take a step back and look at when people have, when people look at the Bible and they say, they say, I see a conflict or a contradiction. You know, you have. What's his name, what you were talking to a while back, we're talking about before the show, Borat or whatever. That's not his name.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

All about the contradictions.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, yeah, that they're kind of. Which there aren't by the way. There are no contradictions in the Bible. I've heard every, every accusation of it and I've, I've refuted it on my side and elsewhere. But when, when someone says they have a contradiction, especially if they're a Christian, but it will go both ways, Christian and non, it's always based on at least one false premise and a definite agenda. So because the Bible is correct, meaning that if you see a contradiction or a conflict, the Bible, you don't need to change the Bible, you need to change your premise. For example, you know, an atheist comes in who wants to disprove the Bible. They have a premise. Their premise is that there's no God, there's no supernatural creator, that, you know, the world just came into existence. The universe came to existence by accident. You know, once upon a time there was nothing. Then Nothing exploded and 100 trillion beneficial accidents happened in a row, creating, you know, everything that we know. And life comes from non life. And there are beneficial mutations and things go from chaos to order, all of which is completely non scientific, scientifically impossible. It violates all three laws of thermodynamics. I do a whole thing on this, on Faith by Reason where I show how evolution is absolutely impossible scientifically, not according to the Bible. But that's their premise. And because that's their premise, when they see the Bible, they're coming into it with the contradict. They see contradictions not based on the Bible, but based on their, their contradict, based on their premise and their agenda. So when it comes to. But, but for Christians, we don't have the excuse because we're supposed to believe that the Bible is the word of God. That is inerrant and if the Bible has a contradiction in it, then that means that God doesn't exist because contradictions can't exist. Two things that are contradictory cannot both exist. I can't be in California and not in California at the same time. You know, I can't be Ed Mabry, not be Ed Mabry. You know, those things can't exist. So if there's a contradiction, then you're saying God doesn't exist. And as a Christian, you would think that shouldn't be something that's on your to do list. It's showing that God doesn't exist. Now, when it comes to Jesus and Paul, there is a false premise and there's an agenda. The false premise is that Jesus and Paul were talking to the same people under the same set of circumstances, and they were not. Now if they were, then you could definitely, you, you could definitely see a conflict because when Jesus, they both talk about salvation. But Jesus does in fact say, you have to be saved by doing the will of the Father, by doing the will, by obeying the law, by doing all these different things in the present tense. That's how he speaks in the future tense. He does talk about, you know, whosoever believes in me will not perish but have eternal life. But that's still a dude. He's talking about doing things. Paul very much says that you are saved by believing grace. And we need to talk about what grace is because that's huge. And it's grace which leads you to faith, which leads you to salvation. So if they're talking to the same audience, that's a problem. However, they were not talking to different audiences. And here's something that you guys have to, you know, kind of brace yourself for this because it's going to sound a little heretical. Jesus was not talking to Christians during his ministry. He was not.

[Raven]

They didn't exist.

[Ed Mabry]

Exactly. A Christian because what's, what's a Christian? What is a follower of, of Christ in, in a sense is someone who believes in the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus and has a Holy Spirit dwelling in them, which that didn't happen until Acts chapter two.

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[Ed Mabry]

So Jesus had to die in the sin. And Jesus said himself in, in. I think it's John. I think I wrote. Yeah, yeah, John 16:7, that the Holy Spirit couldn't even come down until he left. Jesus said, it's good that I leave because if I don't leave, the Holy Spirit can't come down.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right.

[Ed Mabry]

So Jesus was not here. Exactly. So there were no Christians. So who was Jesus talking to? Jesus was talking to first century Israelites. They were under the law. So if you. So the split between what we call the Old and New Testament is actually erroneous, technically speaking. Because if you say that the. The Old Testament is the Old Covenant, the law and the prophets, and the New Testament is the New Covenant where we have salvation through the death, resurrection and ascension of Jesus, then the New Testament doesn't start till Acts, chapter two. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are technically Old Testament, Old covenant books. Jesus was talking to Israelites primarily. Jesus never left the Levant. He never left Israel during his ministry. He was talking primarily 90 of the time, plus 2 directly to Jews. Some Gentiles heard it like, you know, like the woman whose girl's daughter was demon possessed and she asked Jesus to cast out the demon. And the first, the first Jesus ignored her. And, but she kept persisting. And then Jesus said to her, you know, it's not good to, to. To give the bread of the children to the dogs. He called. She was a Gentile, he called her a dog. But she kept pressing in on him. And Jesus was impressed by her, her faith. And he. And he. And you know, he had the demon come out of the daughter. But. And the other time is when he cast the. When he killed the Roman centurion's servant.

[Raven]

Right.

[Ed Mabry]

Other than that, Jesus was talking to Israelites and it makes sense because he. He was the Messiah of. He was the. The Israelite, the Jewish Messiah. He came to fulfill the law. Everything Jesus was talking about was about the law. So before Jesus's death and resurrection, how were you saved? You were saved by your adherence to the law. Now, so let me. So definition wise, because I always like to give definitions. This is something that our mutual friend John Linhart taught me all the time. You have to give definitions in order to keep people from misunderstanding. What is the definition of salvation? And here's another one that's going to mess up some Christians because. Well, let me ask you, what is your definition of salvation?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That you won't perish.

[Ed Mabry]

Raven, you are A savant. I say that all the time. People rap. Salvationist. Oh, this is just this glorious, beautiful, fluffy thing. Salvation means I'll be with Jesus forever. Well, that's the result of salvation. But salvation is basically the avoidance of punishment. That is really what it means to be safe, to avoid a punishment. I mean, if you walk, if you're, you know, walking down the street and like some guy comes after you with a knife and I grab you and, and, and put you in my car and drive away, I've saved you. I didn't give you anything. I just helped you avoid a bad thing. So that's what salvation is. Salvation is simply avoiding a bad thing to put you into a position where you can have fellowship with God. So if you look at, at what the mechanism was for salvation throughout the, throughout the Bible, even starting with the Old Testament, though, there are different ways you could, you could be saved. But, but you, you avoided punishment by obeying God before the advent of Jesus. You were saved from, from any type of harm by obeying God. So it was about obedience through the time of Jesus. So that's why Jesus told people you had to do these good works in order to be saved, in order to avoid punishment. Not necessarily to go to heaven, but to avoid punishment. That was Jesus's rose. So he didn't, he wasn't talking to Christians. Paul on the other hand, was talking to Christians. Paul became, he got saved like, you know, several years after the, the Holy Spirit indwelling in Acts chapter 2. Paul's ministry was to believers. And so it's a different message. So he was telling. Because believers aren't under the law anymore. Jesus fulfilled it. It was done.

[Raven]

Go ahead, tighten up.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right?

[Raven]

That's like, that's basically his ministry.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

He's right.

[Ed Mabry]

Churches, I'm sorry, say that again.

[Raven]

Paul is telling them to tighten up. These believers, they. That have already established churches and they've messed them up in various ways.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, exactly. That was, yeah, his message to the Corinthians was about that and to the Ephesians and he was, yeah, he was doing a lot of correction. I mean, he. Well, because all of his, most of his epistles are like correcting bad doctrine. But initially when he was planning churches, he was giving the message of salvation. How do you avoid punishment now? How do you avoid bad things now? It's just by. Jesus already paid for that, so you don't have to do anything to, to pay for your sins. Jesus did that.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

So now this seems super, super simple.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

How is this propagated? To the extent that, who's making these arguments, these are, these are educated because I'm not and I'm understanding but these people are I imagine to some extent some of them are self proposed Christians.

[Ed Mabry]

Theologians with degrees like, like Bart Ehrman is another name. He's the one that, that I think Aaron Abel always quotes. He, he's, he's a theologian. But here is what I talked about. The, the false premise. But again their premise is that it's the same message. So if you, if you have that false premise and you're going to see there's a, there is a conflict if not a contradiction between the two. So you have to pick one. Well, I'm going to pick Jesus over Paul because Jesus was the son of God. Paul was a man and he was a Pharisee before he was that he persecuted the church. So he's a bad guy. The other. So that's what one part, the other part is the agenda behind. Remember I said it's a false premise and an agenda and the agenda is frankly to get us back under the law to get us back in a works based salvation because people can't handle the freedom that we have under grace because they have the wrong definition of grace. If you ask most Christians what is grace, including myself for most of my life I had to be educated on this. The, the common definition of grace is unmerited favor. That and as this is the, the Catholic definition of it and that's probably where that kind of seeped into the, to the non Catholic church was as unmerited favor. God gives you the grace just. And if you think, think about it. Unmerited favor is actually unjust because you, you're being given something you don't deserve. Justice means you get what you do deserve. If you get something you don't deserve, it's unmerited. And it actually contradicts the Bible because it talks about grace as something that you can have more of. How do you get more unmerited favor? Unless the only way to get more favor is if you are in a, if you send more in order to get more more of that you have to, you have to send more to get more of God's unmerited favor. But, but that's not the definition. If you actually look at something like you look at blue letter Bible, any of the, or any kind of concordance. The word faith is the Greek word Charis. C H R I S Charis does not mean unmerited favor. Charis means the divine influence on the heart and Its reflection in life. It basically means being guided by God. That's what grace is. So you're saved by grace. God guiding you through faith. So God, if you're, if you're a Christian, you're a Christian because you listen to God. God is always talking to everyone. Believer and unbeliever. So he's all. He's give. He gives us all grace. He says that explicitly in the Bible. He gives his grace to everyone. Now, if that's unmerited favor, then that means he's given everyone unmerited favor. Really? How do you prove that? You can't. But you can prove he's given everyone grace. He's speaking to everyone. And if you listen to him speaking the message of salvation to you and you believe it by faith, that's your salvation. But grace isn't something that just came upon the church. Grace has always been allowed. We look throughout the Bible from the beginning in different. I don't want to call them dispensations because people freak out about that. But every era in the Bible, like Adam and Eve, they walk with God in the cool of the day. That was their grace. That was their divine influence. Then after they sinned, they were still offered the opportunity. People could still walk with God, but only Enoch chose to do that. That, that phrase, Enoch walked with God, it sounds great, but it's actually a, a scathing indictment of everyone else. It was basically like, yeah, Enoch walked with God, but everyone else didn't. But you could still do it if you had to choose to. Then after Babel, God got a little further from everyone because God was in the Old Testament. God keeps getting further and further away from man the more they sin. After Babel, God put the, the, his, His Council of Elohim over the nations. We see that in Deuteronomy 32. So they were the ones who were given the divine influence. But of course, they all messed up. They all started accepting worship and they became the false gods of the nations. And then the law was grace. Because God said, you're not listening to me. So I guess I have to write it down for you idiots, because you're not getting it when I try to talk to you. So the law was grace. The law was how you communed with God. That was a divine guidance, and that's what Jesus was under. Jesus was under the law and he was a fulfillment of the law. So it would only make sense that Jesus would express grace by telling people to do the works of the law. Jesus fulfilled it. So it would be contradictory For Paul to have given the same message as Jesus. Because if Paul gave the same message of do the will of God and follow the law in order to be saved, then Paul would be contradicting the, the, the salvation that Jesus gave us, which is to believe based on faith. So there's no contradiction there at all.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's. Oh, maybe we got a super chat. Thank you from for James, for the five dollar super chat, for having the good sense to invite Ed on again. Like I said earlier at the top of the show, the, the longest. Do you, do you have any idea how many appearances by this point? I mean we, we don't number our episodes.

[Raven]

Probably nearing on 100, I'd say.

[Ed Mabry]

I haven't kept track.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It might be. I mean it's, it's definitely north of 50 for sure. Number one. Most reoccurring. Reoccurring guess.

[Raven]

But yeah, it does make a lot of sense. And the hostility behind it would make a lot of sense too coming from or I guess organized, some organized religion because it is kind of a shot in the foot to the traditions of man.

[Ed Mabry]

Exactly.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah.

[Raven]

So that needs to move aside. But unfortunately like, like a lot of

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

people, you know, that's a great point.

[Raven]

This was our issue with like Jacob Israel or like anybody who kind of like, I don't know. Well, this part of the Bible is allegorical. It's like, okay, so that. Move that part aside so the rest of it could fit. Right, right. And then when I have some choice words to say to you, then I'm a bad guy. But Paul does condemn me as well for the abuse of language.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Was it the spiritually wounding language?

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, yeah.

[Raven]

So I have to adhere to that as well. So that's fair. Right? It's all fair. But stop doing that.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right, right, right, right. But that is, that's a great observation. It's move this out of the way because it gets in the ways of the traditions.

[Raven]

Who's not guilty?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Sure, of course.

[Ed Mabry]

And that's, that's the agenda I was talking about because that's what we tend to do as human beings. We get religious. And what is religion? We've defined it before on the show. Religion is when you add your man made stuff onto what God said. And because God, God gives us.

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[Ed Mabry]

Freedom with one limitation. It's called a conjunctive. So people say, oh, God has all these rules. No he doesn't. God. And this is how we best operate. Freedom with one conjunctive example, you know, back to the Garden of Eden. God said, eat of all the trees except one. So full freedom. You can eat of anything you want except for the one tree. And as long as we obey God's conjunctives, we're fine. But whenever we add something to it, there's a screw up. What did Eve do when the Nakash asked her, what did God say about eating the tree? She said, we can eat all the trees except for one. We can't eat it. Oh, and we can't touch it. As soon as you add to it, everything gets screwed up. And if you look at, you know, the, the next aspect, you know, when God put, when, you know, God gave the, the, the, the admonition to Noah after the flood, say, you know, to go spread out over the world, they say, okay, well, we'll spread out, but first we're going to build a city. So we, whenever they do their own thing, then that always adds on to that as an additional limitation. But that's what we want to do. That's religion. Then when with the law, the law was perfect. But what did the Pharisees do? The Pharisees added the traditions of men on to the law. And Jesus, that's what Jesus was always telling me. Like, you guys, you know, you're, you know, you're whitewashed tombs filled with dead men's bones because you take the word of God and you, and you make it, you make, you make the word of God of none effect by, with the traditions of men. You know, that's why in the Beatitudes, I know you guys have talked about this before where Jesus says, you know, you have heard it said X, but I say Y. He was doing, he was getting rid of all the traditions. You've heard it said of old that, you know, love your, you know, you know, love your, your, your neighbor and hate your enemy. She says, no, no, you love your enemy too. That's, that's what the law says. The Pharisees added on to that. So every time we add on to something, we screw it up. But it comes from our pride and our desire and our religious desire, our desire to improve upon God. So these people who are if what you will find when you listen to any of their podcasts or videos, when they talk about Paul is not doing the will of Jesus. He has a different message. You will eventually come to the idea that they want us back under the law. They want us. They want more rules.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right.

[Ed Mabry]

And they want more rules because rules give people power.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah. Authority.

[Raven]

It's just more Jesus Plus. We have a Jesus plus guy in the chat here, kind of blowing it up.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh, yeah. I don't know why he watches this show, but apparently disclosure is going to reveal. Well, I mean, it's a. It's a false revelation, but go on.

[Raven]

Was part alien.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

And then he goes on to say, if you are faith can't handle that, then buckle up, buttercup. He doesn't watch the show, does it?

[Raven]

It's just basically what the Bible says, but more like of what you added to it also.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, right.

[Raven]

At least these guys are using other parts of the Bible. This guy's just making up. But it's the same thing, really.

[Ed Mabry]

It's a hate watch.

[Raven]

Yeah, yeah, Is what it is. It just means that you've missed the mark. This guy missed in a much bigger way, but these other guys have missed in a smaller way.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

He's not completely incorrect in, but. Except it's going to be an op. Like, that is the op that's coming. Yeah, that's the op that's coming. They're gonna do that. They're gonna do that and it's going to cause a lot of people to get all twisted up about what they believe, and it's actually unmanageable thing at all. I'm a high school dropout and I find it all very manageable. So maybe stick around a little bit.

[Ed Mabry]

If people are having difficulty with all the doctrinal jargon I was putting out, I want to repeat an analogy I gave to someone else who had this question and about the two messages and how that coalesces in two different audiences. So if you look at salvation, having the New Jerusalem as a party, and I related it to a party that I have like a couple weeks ago, Memorial Day. Every Memorial Day we have a pizza party. Not. Not the. Not the bad kind, but in my backyard we have a pizza oven. And so on Memorial Day, you know, I make.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

You got a pizza oven in your back, like a brick oven.

[Ed Mabry]

Oh, no, no, it's the smaller ones.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Okay. Oh, it's a little one. Okay.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, it's the smaller ones.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

What are they called? Private pies or personal pies?

[Ed Mabry]

No, it does. It does a full. It's a large one. It does a full size 12 inch. 12. It has a 16 inch pie.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

This guy's got a full pizza pie.

[Raven]

He's just saying it's not, it's not like a big brick. Okay.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, it's that. Yeah, it's not full, but it's large. If it's, you know, it's a big old pizza piece I like to do from

[Raven]

my pizza cooker. Has many chambers.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Maya, how many pizzas I can fit in this oven?

[Ed Mabry]

So, yeah, so I do. I make my own dough. I do a 72 hour ferment on it. I make my own sauces. Yeah, you guys got to come out. I do for Memorial Day and Labor Day every year.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Videos of that I would love to watch. That'd be cool.

[Ed Mabry]

I'll do a video next time. I'll do a Memorial Day next time. I do have a big party, but. So the goal is a party. So I have a message for the people in my house, my wife and my kids, like, you know, we got to get the house together. You know, tell the kids, take all the trash, get the dishes together, clean up, vacuum and mop the floor. You know, my wife is doing her thing in the house together. And. But the goal is a pizza is the party. So my message to them is get everything prepared. So, and I mean, and I'm doing my part. I'm cooking and everything. Now when, when the guests arrive. My wife is a hostess because I'm in the back. I'm. I'm making pizzas and whatnot. My wife is the hostess. She tells people coming up, different message. She says, hey, come in, sit back, relax. Just tell everybody wanting your pizza. We'll get it done. You just, you know, sit down and relax. So if you were to just look at the message. My message versus my wife's. My message is do stuff, get stuff done, prepare the way. My wife's message is enjoy the party. There's. But there's no contradiction because we are both. The goal is the party. Yeah, but the difference is I'm talking to two different audiences with the two different roles to get us to that party. So that's the difference. We all enjoy the party. We all have pizzas. You know, my wife and kids have pizzas. I have a pizza. Eventually I'm the last one to get a damn pizza because I'm cooking for everybody.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's how it goes.

[Ed Mabry]

But that's. So there's no contradiction between the two Messages because they aren't to the same people for the same reasons. So the same thing with the message that Jesus had to the Israelites who were waiting for their Messiah to fulfill the law versus the message that Paul has to Christians. This, the New Jerusalem is a party. It's just the same different messages of how to get there.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I love that idea though. I love going to to your place for a pizza party. And then me and Top get into a theological debate. It was like, well, look, there are two fundamental differences here on how to enjoy this pizza party. Now Ed says, you know, prepare the way. But Ed's wife does say, enjoy the party.

[Raven]

I have faith in Ed that he's gonna do it.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, faith through the grace that you heard.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, I like that. That's a good example though.

[Ed Mabry]

But the people who want to put us back on the law are basically saying, oh yeah, come, don't. You can't. You can enjoy the party, but you got to come clean up. I'm not gonna ask you to clean up at my party if you're a guest.

[Raven]

Yeah, but if you don't clean up, you're kind of a piece of like

[Ed Mabry]

if you gotta take it up, I mean clean up beforehand because it's already been done. We've already cleaned the house, We've already dumped the trash. We've done that already. So why are you coming? So I guess the better analogy is why are you coming in re cleaning when I've already cleaned up? Jesus already fulfilled the law. Why are you coming in to do it again when he's already done? Isn't that, wouldn't that be an insult? You know, if, if I've already done the work and I go, I'm so much, I'm just gonna mop over the floor again after you already mopped it. I'm like, dude, already already did this. Go enjoy the damn pizza.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right?

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[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I want to address this super chat really quick. I'm actually worried about which direction this is going to go with with Ed and his sports preferences. But I have to say thank you, Qui gon, for the $5 donation. Love you. I don't care about soccer. Don't. Don't come on the show and tell me about soccer.

[Raven]

And he's telling us in European times,

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

and that's extra disgusting. And. And soccer is not a real sport, and it's more. It's an abomination to sports, and I'll have no more of that. So I'll keep your money, but don't. Don't do it again.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, I'm not a sucker family. One of my kids played soccer, which. Which was fine, but it was short. The game was only, like, you know, about 15 minutes. He played when he was, like, 5 years old, and he didn't. Didn't. He didn't like it anymore. And I'm like, that's my boy. Go play a real sport. Go play some baseball or football or something.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's the sweet spot for. For playing soccer is when you're 5, 6, 7 years old, and you're just running around kicking a ball. Kicking a ball because your legs are moving, and you go, fantastic. And then after that, you graduate to stuff that requires your hands.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's how it goes.

[Ed Mabry]

I mean, no disrespect to people if you like soccer, you know, don't be like this.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Disrespect to people who like soccer and disrespect to people who play soccer.

[Ed Mabry]

I just don't get it. It's boring to me. It's like. It's a 10 scores. I mean, granted, it happens in baseball, but there's people always moving in baseball. It's your stuff happening. People are hitting stuff with a bat, kicking ball back and forth, and then all the flopping. I don't like. Like, these guys. He's like, you know, big fall on

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

the ground, and they're like, I don't

[Raven]

like all the Mexicans, personally.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's really the worst part about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, man, it's a. It's a terrible. I don't want to. I keep wanting to use the word sport, but that's not really the word that you should.

[Raven]

We just have like, a going bed of when the aliens will show up. And people seem to think the World Cup. I seem to think, UFC 250, we're gonna get it.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

We're gonna get it soon for sure. But which. Which sporting event? I mean, I would much rather see it at the UFC because it would make it more entertaining. I don't want to miss it. And I will miss it. If it's on soccer, Donnie, we'll have a.

[Ed Mabry]

Just as an aside, I have a friend of mine who's. Who's Scottish, and he gets so pissed off when I call it. Soccer is football. Football is what we. Is what we play. People actually get hurt. For real.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's what happens. And then, like, European people get involved in the conversation. That's how, you know, it's bad and shouldn't be discussed really, anymore. Not on this platform. We're not talking about soccer anymore. All right? So please, back to God.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, back to God. So the last thing I would bring up on that we can, you know, wrap this part up is the idea of the Sabbath. This is America.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's right. This is America.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah. So you're the only country in the world that doesn't like soccer. I'm like, yeah, that makes. That's another reason why we're, you know, we crush.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, that's why the reason why we're not gay. All right.

[Raven]

We don't like soccer.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

We don't. Yeah.

[Ed Mabry]

That's not an insult to say that we're the only country that doesn't like soccer. Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

You guys are the only people that make sense is what you just said.

[Raven]

America is becoming kind of gay.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well, because they're liking soccer more and more. If you looked at the charts, it's going up. And I don't. I don't agree with it.

[Ed Mabry]

Yes. I want to get one last example. And this is. It's the Sabbath as it relates to, you know, the law versus grace versus, you know, God speaking to us. Because, you know, you have. I don't even have any Seventh Day Adventists who listen to the show and who come in. I get some good prop pop up in my comments once in a while who always say, yeah, you should be, you know, you got to worship on. On the Saturday. On. On Saturday. That's the real Sabbath. And, you know, the Sunday worship was created by the Roman Empire, blah, blah, blah. But again, they have the wrong definition of what the Sabbath is because they think the Sabbath rest means that you're supposed to just, like, lounge around and not do anything. That's not what it is at all. The Sabbath is based on, you know, the seventh day of creation. When. When God said, you know, I'm going to rest. It wasn't because God was tired. God wasn't lounging. What he said is, I'm going to cease my activity, the activity of being the first. Cause I'm no longer going to initiate my will. And for the rest of the Bible, after Genesis chapter 2, God never unilaterally initiates his will. He just responds after that. So the Sabbath was supposed to be when the Israelites would emulate what God would do, when they would only they would not initiate their will. So for six days, here was a conjunctive. For six days, you can do anything you want as long as it's within the law. So conjunctive, do anything you want as long as you're in obedience to the law, on the seventh day, you only do the law. So that's what the Sabbath truly is. So Jesus is called our Sabbath rest. So that means the Sabbath is supposed to be every day, not just on Saturdays. And what does it mean by this? The Sabbath means that we're only supposed to do the will of God through grace, through the Holy Spirit. So we're only supposed to be doing what the Holy Spirit tells us. So in a way, all the people who want to put extra laws on us, this era of grace that we're in, where we're led by the Holy Spirit is actually more restrictive because we are in an eternal. A lifetime of Sabbath where we're only supposed to do what the Holy Spirit tells us every day. Now we don't because, you know, none of us are perfect, but he's there telling us and leading us. So that's an example of why we don't need to try to make salvation more restrictive than it is, because it's already restrictive. We don't have. We're supposed to do. We can do anything we want as long as the Holy Spirit tells us to do it. Because that's what Jesus did. Jesus said, I do nothing on my own. I only do what the Father tells me. So.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right?

[Ed Mabry]

So that's that. There is no. There is no contradiction in fact. And here. And here's what I don't understand why people don't get even if you have. Are confused about Jesus versus Paul and their messages and thinking Paul's a false apostle. Read second. Was the second Peter, chapter 3:15, where Paul calls. Excuse me, where Peter calls Paul his beloved brother. The disciples accepted Paul as an apostle. How can he be a false prophet, a false apostle if the people who were with Jesus every day for. For three and a half years and apparently did Paul fool them? No, of course not. They knew the words of Jesus better than anyone. And they accepted Paul and they called him that beloved brother. He was part of the. He was part of the Christian inner circle. And when it came down to the law. We see it in the Council of Jerusalem where Peter and Paul were actually having this discussion like, should. Should a Gentile have to be under the law in order to be saved? And it was decided that the only thing that Gentiles had to do was don't even be sacrificed to idols and don't commit fornication, both of which have to do with worshiping other God. So basically, the only thing that we as Christians have to do under the law is. Is obey the first of the ten Commandments. Have no other God before me for salvation. We should obey all 10. You know, don't murder, don't steal, all that kind of stuff. But as far as salvation is concerned, the only thing we have to do in order to maintain our salvation is not to worship other gods, which would make sense. So that's my capital on that. So hopefully, if. If any of you are encountering people who are telling you that Jesus and Paul conflicted or that Paul was a false apostle and you shouldn't obey him or shouldn't listen to his. His. His epistles, which is a third of the New Testament, hopefully I've given you some information that will help.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I think that was really helpful.

[Raven]

It even. I think it even goes further than that. Like, not just does he call.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Does.

[Raven]

Does Peter call Paul his beloved brother, but, like, there's a point at which Paul is correcting Peter, like, almost condemning him in a way.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's.

[Raven]

Okay. Step right in front of the camera.

[Spinquest Announcer]

Okay.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That was weird. Nobody's out there.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah. Was that Nancy? You didn't hear?

[Raven]

Oh, no, it's. That's Mason.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's so weird. Somebody dinged the bell out there, but nobody's out there.

[Raven]

You better go up front. Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Ghosts, go check that out.

[Raven]

Yeah. So Paul. Paul condemns Peter. Go ahead, step right in front of the camera again. I'm so sorry. What was I saying? Paul condemns Peter for not sitting with the Gentiles when the Jews come around and kind of falling back into his old ways. So he's like this enforcer in a way.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah.

[Raven]

And I. I could understand also why, like, even some of the most devout, devout people are like, Peter would have been well within his rights to been like, screw this guy. You just got here. Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh, yeah, yeah. But.

[Ed Mabry]

But like, Johnny completely.

[Raven]

No, he.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

He was. He ate it.

[Raven]

He's like, yeah, yeah, okay, I hear what you're saying. And people just need to accept that this dude was the enforcer. He was out there telling. He was calling balls and strikes and it is what it is.

[Ed Mabry]

Paul was hardcore. I mean if you, if you, if you read Paul outside of like the polite King James old English and listen to what Paul, even Jesus. Jesus was hardcore too. I mean Jesus was calling people stupid back and forth. He's called the disciples. You guys are slow of learning. Well yeah, that sounds polite but he really saying you guys are idiots. How long have I been with you? I'm with you every day for three years and you guys are still not getting it. How dumb are you? That's what Jesus is saying. And Paul was, Paul was hardcore too. He called the Galatians fools. Why? For trying to. For being. Putting themselves back onto the law. Under the law. Paul said Jesus gave you freedom and now you're basically saying thanks for the freedom Jesus, but I think I want to go back to jail. Well, you guys are foolish for doing that. And that's what people who want to

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

be under the law order to right after, like right afterwards. That's one of the points that top brought up recently where it's like the Orthodox church was talking about being, you know, basically the earliest church. Yeah. And it was like, okay, so how long did it take for the church to immediately screw up after Christ left

[Raven]

after he letter from Paul?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, right. Right away. This comes from seven minutes of freedom. Maybe an interesting question before we move on to the next topic. If transgression of the law is sin and you remove the law and then you remove sin, so then you don't need a savior question mark. What are you judged by without the law? That's a. Seems like a kind of a misunderstanding here.

[Ed Mabry]

Yes. So the law was, was given so that people knew what sin was. It doesn't say it again.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

What wasn't it? It was the standard. Right. This is salvation comes by adherence to

[Ed Mabry]

the law right outside of Jesus. If you wanted to be saved without Jesus dying for your sin, you'd have to obey the law perfectly, which means you would have to never sin. So if you were able to somehow never ever sin, you would be saved on your own without Jesus. But none of us are capable.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

The only one that lived a perfect life is endlessly.

[Ed Mabry]

Right? Exactly. You'd have to do exactly what Jesus did, which is basically, you know, listen to do only what God tells you to do. Don't do nothing of yourself. So the law is nothing. Paul himself says in Romans, the law is great, the law is perfect, but we can't obey it. We can never live under the law perfectly because we can never not sin.

[Raven]

And that's why all these people ended up going to, like, Abraham's bosom until.

[Ed Mabry]

Because they believed in the promise of Jesus. It's, you know, it says that Abraham, Abraham believed and it was accounted unto him righteousness. And that's literally like, you know, like, like in a ledger. You know, it's like, you haven't paid yet, but I'm gonna. You got a tab and I put, I'm putting you on the tab. You believe, so you'll pay later. And with the payment. Jesus made the payment, but it was, it was attributed. It was accounted to him as righteousness. Not because Jesus had come yet, so he wasn't safe. That's why he didn't go to heaven. He went to, you know, Abraham's bosom in a compartment of Hades. And so, you know, so all the, all the patriarchs, Abraham, Noah, Daniel, Dave, King David, all the, all the believers, they didn't go to heaven because their sins had not been paid for. But, but there was an accounting. There was a, A mark in the, in the accountant's book saying, yeah, here's. I got an iou and Jesus will pay your iou. Now you can go to heaven. That's when Jesus went. When Jesus died, he left captivity captive. He took them out of Abraham's bosom. It's okay, I've paid for it. You believed in it. And now we can go to heaven. And that's. And that's where they are now. Now they're no longer. That's. That's why when you die, you no longer go to Hades to the. Abraham's wisdom. You go directly to heaven. So to answer the, your. Your listener's question, you. If the, The. The law. If you still, if you obey the law, if you, if you disobey the. The. The precepts of the law, you are sinning. Make sure you have to understand what precepts mean. Precepts are different than the ceremonial laws. Like, for example, if you don't observe Passover, I'm not sinning by not observing Passover. That, that's, that's not the same as the precepts. The precepts are, you know, don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't. All these different things, those are the law. And yet if you obey those all perfectly, then you are sinless. But no one's going to do that. So the law is still in effect, but we have the Holy Spirit telling us what the law is. And this is really an important point. So I'm glad you brought this up. The law Treated everyone the same according to the law. We all had to do the same thing. The Holy Spirit treats us as individuals. It treats us uniquely. Because what might be a sin for you might not. What's the sin for you might not be a sin for me. Because we. Because sin is that which. Because Paul defined sin as that which is not of faith. What if we have different levels of faith? I've been a Christian a long time. My level of faith is different than a Christian who just. Who just got saved the other day. So he may make a mistake. That's not a sin. So it's an individual thing. And the Holy Spirit is guiding us. And so we know when, if we obey the Holy Spirit, if we listen to him, then we know what is a sin and what is not. Because it's based on. Of doing things out of faith.

[Raven]

This is the idea of the unclean meats. Like, yeah, yeah, you can do that, but if it makes somebody else stumble.

[Ed Mabry]

Stumbling block.

[Raven]

Right, right, right. Okay.

[Ed Mabry]

It's like we talked about profanity before. You can take the same word in, in the same. Like the word fag means, you know, in. In the US It's a disparaging term for a homosexual male in. Across the pond in England, it means a cigarette.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right, right. My wife was listening to like a tick tock. It was like this Australian dude who's like trying to unpack the word cunt and how they use it as like good cunt, bad cunt. How you doing? Cunt. Like all this stuff, but then like

[Raven]

a harsh word in America.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's like, yeah, you know, like, it's such a crazy word. So. Yeah, but I guess if it's a stumbling block, don't do that. Australians.

[Ed Mabry]

It's ironic you brought that up because last week I was. I was hanging out with a friend. He had this, this, this friend of his, a lady from Australia. Really, really pretty lady, blonde, gorgeous.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

She's dropping that.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, she was dropping the C word all over the place. In a good way. Like, yeah, you got some good gun.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I love that.

[Ed Mabry]

You're hilarious. You're called. I'm like, oh, my God.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's a really. I like that. We need some Australian people. Australian people are about the only silly accented people I accept. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what it is. They're like a hard kind of people, you know, with like.

[Ed Mabry]

She could throw back the beers, too. Good Lord.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

And they drink heavily, which, you know, I, I guess I like that. All right, so let's, let's. Let's move on to this, this clean topic.

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[Ed Mabry]

Okay, sure. So last time I was only talked about what the Bible says about Cain. And you know, it's Genesis chapter four is the only narrative about can he brought up a few other places like, you know, Jude talks about, you know, people who go the way of Cain and you'll hear it here and there. But as far as what we know about who Cain was and what he actually did is just in Genesis chapter four. But you will find all kinds of people appropriating Cain to fit into their narratives, their doctrines, their, their monster lore. Right, their monster lore. So first of all, why are they doing this? I think one of it is just a natural inclination we have as human beings to try to figure out mysteries, to try to understand our world. And we live in a world that's full of like some pretty despicable, unspeakable evil. I mean, just really, you know, genocide, check. Sex trafficking, you know, doing bad things to children. And those are things that, those are things that I know most of us don't do. It's horrifying. Now we all sin, but, you know, that's a different level. And we want to try to find a way to explain where does this come from? What is the origin of like these huge, unspeakable, inhumane sins. And we have to look for, well, who was the. So we want to take it back to the Bible because whether people want to admit it or not, we all believe in the Bible. And that's why people who even claim they don't always use the Bible as a reference. You know, people don't believe in Jesus, say, well, Jesus said this. Well, you don't even believe in Jesus. Well, because you know it's true in your heart. You just, you're rebelling against it. But so they want. So who's the first bad guy in the Bible? Human bad guy. Kane. So they take Cane. They put all of this stuff on him also because there's, there's not a lot said about him. So that leaves it open, seemingly leaves it open to, to put all this stuff on. It's like, like when I have my discussion with the little seasoned people, any kind of mystery, they find and say, well, that's. That must be. That must explain why we're in a little season. Because I can't explain this. So that must be a, you know, because I always ask him, okay, well, if we're in the little season, then Satan should be gathering the nations, deceiving them into, into surrounding the camp of the saints in Jerusalem. So is there a camp of saints in Jerusalem? You can show me? Well, no, but, you know, Jerusalem's. It's not. It's not Israel anymore. It's in the North Pole. Oh, how convenient that it's in the one place we can't go to. Okay, I guess Jesus is in a Bermuda Triangle because we can't go there either. But the point is that because there's mystery there, people use this as their way to try to explain, you know, all the evil in the world as opposed to just looking at the two reasons. Number one, the reason for evil is that, you know, we sin. Adam and Eve sinned, and, and that's. And we are born disconnected from, from God, from Jehovah. So we aren't in that constant contact with him. But there is an explanation, an outside explanation for those big evils, and that is the fallen Elohim. Things like wars. People don't want to go to war. The only people who want wars are the leaders. And the leaders are basically, they all worship these fallen entities, you know, the kings and queens of the world, the politicians. We know that we're ruled by a bunch of satanic pedos who. So those are the people who do that. But they want to find a way to explain it so that we can be good and know other people are bad. So some of the myths that come out of this, one of the first ones that I deal with is the idea that Cain was not the son of Adam and Eve. He's a son of Adam, excuse me, the son of Eve and the serpent, the nakash in the Garden of Eden, right? And they say, well, they euphemize the forbidden fruit. They say, you know, that when the forbidden fruit is euphemism for illicit sex. So basically Eve was having sex with the serpent. That was her eating the forbidden fruit and she got pregnant with Cain. And so Cain is actually part human, part part serpent because, you know, the, the Nahash, the dragon of old. So he, he is the origin of the lizard people. The Reptilians. And all of his descendants are Reptilians, and they're the ones who've been ruling the world from in the background. And you know, all the David Ike stuff and all his name pronounces David Iker. David Ike.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It looks like it was pronounced David Ike, but yeah, it's David.

[Ed Mabry]

So, you know, he talks about this. He doesn't relate it all directly to Cane. He sees more on the alien bench. But you know, he talks about, you know, these shape shifting Reptilians and so. Well, that's. That's the origin of it from a biblical standpoint. Well, okay, but there's huge problems with this. First of all, if in. In the. The Bible, Hebrew is a very precise language, just like Greek, which I think is great, that the Bible is written in those two precise languages. The words that God uses for eating and tree are literally that. He's not using euphemisms here. This isn't poetry. He is saying that. He's talking about when you take a fruit and put it in your mouth and chew it. That's what he means by eating it. And if. If eating of the tree meant having illicit sex with an Elohim, then what did he mean when he said you can eat of any tree in the garden except for this one? So what's he saying? You can have sex with anything, just not that one.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

You can have sex with anything.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah. You can have sex with any angel except. Except for Satan.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's a great observation because you know, if you're going to say that, that. That is a euphemism. This eating of the forbidden fruit is in your mouth. Yeah. Then it's like. Well, what is the. The, the, you know, the declaration that you can eat of any of the other. You can have sex with any of these other creatures.

[Raven]

Yeah. I'm interested to see what you think about this episode. I'll send it to you because it's not yet released. But we interviewed this guy named Jed. Jed Boza.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Boza, yeah.

[Raven]

Yeah.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay, Great, dude.

[Raven]

His idea about the primordial origin of Satan, and it goes back to Genesis 1 and he's talking about God creating the earth and then him hovering over the waters. Waters being this like primordial chaos.

[Ed Mabry]

Right.

[Raven]

Basically what he does is separate light from darkness. He makes stuff good and he makes stuff bad. And what I got from that is like this chaos that he separated now, but he's used it to create. But he also has them. It says later in the New Testament that the darkness can't even comprehend the light. So it can't. It doesn't have access to that. You kind of need both of these things to create. But if this is a chaos, a chaotic water, and let's just say this chaotic water was in a stream, and let's just say that something grew from it, like a tree. Let's say that's now a chaotic tree of, you know, a chaotic tree that. That grows chaotic fruit. He compared it to this idea of like a glitch in the matrix, like this thing that shouldn't be. And when you insert that into human beings or into anything, it has to now be out of this heavenly realm. And I was like, this is actually a very interesting idea.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, that's. That's one of those. I, I highly recommend. Yeah, we'll say I probably botched it.

[Raven]

But you should. Yeah, you should check it out.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Because both. Every time something good like that comes along, I, I have like, oh, I want Ed's thoughts on this and I want Matt's thoughts on this. So I've been pestering Matt like, yo, you gotta listen to this episode, because he was citing scripture and he was showing you the. The original Greek and Hebrew translations for the words and everything, like, really solid. In other words, I couldn't fault the dude. Like, you know, not that I know whether or not he's correct or incorrect, but I certainly couldn't fault him for coming to those conclusions because I was like, oh, yeah, I see how you got there. Like, I could see it was very clear how he got there. So I'd be interested.

[Ed Mabry]

I'll check it out. But one thing I'm seeing is possible, as we talked about before, whenever you see a conflict, there's. There's probably. There might be a premise that you have wrong, and I think a premise that he might have wrong is the idea that God created evil or that God can create evil and you can't. That's actually an oxymoron if you oxymoron if you know what the definition of evil is. Evil is destruction. You can't create destruction. Destruction is an effect of. Of what you do to something good. So God didn't say, I'm going to make evil. You can't. It's like saying, I'm going to make darkness. You can't. Darkness is a measurement of the absence of light. Evil is what happens when there's. When. When good isn't there. So God only created good. Now good can be corrupted. But he didn't. He didn't make a Satan he didn't say I'm going to make a bad guy. First of all, number one, he didn't do that because that would be impossible. God is light and there's no darkness in him at all. God cannot create darkness. God is 100 light. Darkness can go when light is. Can be. Can come into play when light is absent.

[Raven]

So what, what creates that then?

[Ed Mabry]

The chapters of light. When, when, when light withdraws. When God withdraws by definition darkness grows. So my, my thought on that and is it and it happens in my Genesis series. Is that the. That primordial darkness that he's talking about, that chaos? He's correct. That is called chaos. It's called the Miami. It's chaotic waters. That was the effect of a primordial rebellion that happened and that led God to withdraw his light. God created everything perfect. He created the Elohim. First there was a rebellion with this entity called Leviathan. When it says God was hovering over the face of Teom, the darkness. That word over the. For the. For the deep is the. What is the word Teom which in Ugaritic in Sumerian means Tiamat. Tiamat's a seven headed dragon. God is standing over in a victory pose. Over this is over this dragon who this the seven headed dragon who fell. Some people say it's Satan. I don't think that was the entry. I think it's a different entity. Why? Because Satan's in the Garden of Eden. The Garden of Eden was a garden was on the mountain of God. Evil cannot be in the presence of God. I believe that Satan fell when he lied. When he came to Eve and said that he asked her a question and then he lied. He said a truth and a lot. He said if you eat this you will know good and evil, but you won't die. That was a lie. That was the first lie ever told. So that's why he. That's why I believe that's when he fell and God cursed him. But they have the primordial chaos that was not produced by God. God made everything good. But he also gave the angels initial free will. Angels have free will until. Until you're judged. You have free will. Once you're a judge, you no longer have free will. So they decided to rebel. For we can get into the. I have my. Some theories on the reason but for whatever reason they a section of them rebelled and there was a judgment and that darkness was a result of the judgment. So. So Satan didn't grow out of the darkness. The. The darkness was a result of a judgment.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's.

[Raven]

This is such an interesting.

[Ed Mabry]

And you get. And one more, one more thing about evil people. Oh, I get this all the time. Well, if God knew Satan was going to sin, why did God make him? Well again, that's a false premise. That false premise is that God knew.

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[Ed Mabry]

He didn't. And this is something that really messes a lot of Christians up because they have this idea of the omnis that you get from, from Calvinism, that God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, that he knows everything. God knows everything. But the true definition of that is God has all the information that exists. God does not have information that doesn't exist. Why? Because it doesn't exist. And you know what doesn't exist? The, the choice I'm going to make tomorrow. I haven't made it yet. God did not know that Satan was going to sin. He could know his tendency. But God didn't know that. Because if God knows everything we're going to do before we do it, then there's no such thing as free will. We can only have free will if we have if that's a mystery. And this, and before you say this is sacrilege, look at going back to the sacrifice of Isaac when, when, when Abraham raised his hand up to, to plunge the knife into, into, into Isaac, God stopped him. He sent an angel and he said to him, now I know that you would not withhold your son from me. Wait a minute. What do you mean now I know That's God saying, I didn't know beforehand. He was testing his faith. He didn't know. He said Abraham. I don't know if Abraham's going to do this for me. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Let me, let me see. God doesn't know who's good. God doesn't know who's going to choose him or who's not going to. That's why Jesus said, for God's loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes he doesn't know Who? That's our choice. He says, so God forgot to love the world, that you know, 3 billion and 28 people will be safe. He didn't know. He doesn't know how many people are going to be saved. We have free choice and that. And I know there's some Christians who are probably not happy with what I just said and don't believe it. I understand. I didn't believe it at first either. I had to be dragged kicking and screaming to this. But think about it. Would it make sense if God knows everything we're do before we do it? Do we have free will? And if we don't have free will, then we can't choose. If we can't choose, then we can't love. We can't love. Then God doesn't get what he wants, which is for us to love him. Yeah.

[Raven]

At the very least it's something to think about. Like don't, don't go kicking and screaming. That's a stupid way to approach a subject like this where we're talking about like the matter of everything in, in a sense. Think about it. Think about what he's saying. Play, play that all out in your head. Because yeah, it's something that I, I know you have told me, but then you hear more stuff and you go, does this apply? And now I have to put them up next to each other. You know, it's been a long time since I had anything comparative to like, be like, does this, would this even make sense or fit?

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah. And the idea that, that got God knows everything, past, present and future, that brings up. That's, that's when you start having contradictions. That's when things don't make sense because then that makes God responsible for evil. Because if I know that tomorrow some guy is going to molest a little girl and I don't do anything about it and I have the power to do anything about it, do something about it. That's rough. But, but that's what a lot of non believers, agnostics have against God. They say, you know, you say your God knows everything, so why doesn't he? He knows this kid's gonna be molested and he's all powerful. Why doesn't he do anything about it? Because your false premise is that he knows you can change your mind. Let's say I've desired to do a bad thing up until I do that bad thing. I can change my mind. And God can't enter, cannot justly interfere with that. Because if he does, then I don't have a choice anymore. So it's heavy.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

But, you know, especially within the context of. Of you can't make somebody love you.

[Ed Mabry]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That one seems very obvious to me. And then. And then, of course, if we have free will, like, how could we have free will? And you can only love somebody with free will. So, you know, you've got to square those things one way or another. And if you're saying that God knows all, knows everything that you're going to do, you know, it's all pre. I mean, it's very Calvinistic, right? Predeterminism. Then how could you have the free will required to choose to follow God? It's never a choice, then. And then that means that some people are predetermined to never choose God. So some people are just dead set on, you know, everlasting torment or whatever the expression would be. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The whole thing makes much more sense with free will, with choosing. Even the idea of salvation coming through. Faith is a gift that is given freely, but you still have to choose to accept that gift. Or standing at the door and knocking, but you have to open the door, and you choose to open the door. So the whole predeterminism doesn't make a whole lot of sense, mechanically speaking. Functionally speaking. No.

[Ed Mabry]

If Calvinism is true, then it's God's fault that people are in hell, because he just said before, okay, you're going to heaven, you're going to hell. Bye. There's nothing you can do about it because it's predetermined. No matter what, I know you can't be saved ever. That makes God the bad guy.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

And then that gives. So when people get upset and they go, God is the demiurge, or God is this and that, and it's like, well, yeah, if you're dealing with that understanding of things, then I could see how you would characterize that. You would come to a conclusion that. That, you know, God is evil. This is the prison planet. What about the Archons? What about this and that? Yeah.

[Ed Mabry]

So why would a loving God send you to hell? God doesn't send anyone to hell. God invites everyone to heaven. It's your choice. Everyone who's gonna. Everyone who spends their eternity separated from God is. Is there for one reason. Because they rejected an invitation. I invite you to a party next Saturday. It's gonna be a greatest party in the world. You're gonna love it. Everything you love is going to be there. Here are the directions. If you don't. If you're not at my party next Saturday. Is it my fault? No, you chose. For whatever reason, I don't want to go to a party. I don't believe in the party. I don't. Okay, that's fine. You still chose. You made a decision. And that's why he put the. The tree of good and evil, of the knowledge of good people, in the garden. Because people say, well, why did God do that? Because he wanted Adam and Eve to love him, and they couldn't love him with. If they didn't have the option not to. So he had to give them a choice. But he made it the easiest choice in the world. You can eat up every. Every tree. Just don't eat of this one. That's all you got to do is just not eat of one tree, man. They couldn't do it.

[Raven]

Yeah, there has to be. There has to be a choice.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah.

[Raven]

What was that? Did you hear that beep? Was that just me?

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, that might have been me because I think my work computer is near me. That might have been me getting an email, but I thought. I thought I took out the sound, but I guess I didn't.

[Raven]

Yeah, the idea. The idea of having a choice. And also, I don't know, this. The idea of, like, suffering, it's. It's kind of. It's kind of like, weak to me. Why would God allow this thing? I was like, I don't know. It's part of the story, man.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

This is.

[Raven]

This is part of what we're doing here. Just.

[Ed Mabry]

It is, yeah. It's a tough question. Why. Why do we suffer? First of all, God is not his will. But. But you have to ask how. How could he stop it? Justly. It's not a matter of power. God could heal everybody tomorrow if he wanted to. But remember, God is at rest. He's no longer initiating his will. God responds. He responds to prayer. I've known people who got. My grandmother got healed from. From cancer through prayer. So. And prayer is about justice. Just. You have to have enough justice. It's a whole other story. We can maybe talk about prayer in another show, but prayer is petitioning God based on justice. You're saying that I have enough justice stored up to God? You can do this for me? Because God cannot act outside of justice. It has to be a petitioner, and it has to be enough justice on our side for God to move on our behalf. So if your prayers aren't getting answered, you might have to ask yourself, am I on the right side of justice?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Right.

[Raven]

We have a five dollar super chat from FJ Fool. Let's read this. Declaring the end from the beginning, from ancient time, ancient times, things that are not yet done, saying my counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure.

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[Ed Mabry]

So I, I get, I know what he's saying. He's saying that it, because I've said that, that you know about the future and God can't, can't, can't, doesn't know what we're going to do. But understand what he said. God knows what he's going to do. So God can. So because this is the, the seeming contradiction with what I just said is well, if God doesn't know what's going to happen next, how can he predict the future like revelation and so forth? He didn't say that. He predicts every, that, everything that, that he sees, everything. He talks specifically about his will. God can definitively say what he's going to do in the future. So if you look at the prophecies in revelation, they're all about God's going to do this. God's going to, you know, have the trumpet judgments. God's going to pour out the bowls of wrath. God's going to judge this. So he can say what he's going to do in the future. And he can say in a big picture sense what we're going to do in the sense that he can say that people will follow the Antichrist because he knows our nature. He can't say who specifically is going to, but he has experience that we will follow Will we human beings will always go after a false God and the Antichrist will be a false God. So he can say that a lot of people will follow the Antichrist. He also says a lot of people will be saved. He says that there are a number that no man can number that come out of the tribulation. He so he knows God knows causes and the, and the effects that come from the causes. And he can predict what he's going to do. He can predict what the fallen angels are going to do because they don't have free will anymore. And he can predict effects based on the causes. So that's, those are things he can do. So God can say, I'm going to pour out seven bowls of wrath in the future because he's in control of that.

[Raven]

It's interesting, man.

[Ed Mabry]

Right.

[Raven]

It's like a, it's a, it's a lot to wrap your head about around still.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I think it's, you know how Matt talks about the triune nature of the Godhead, right. Like this idea that we can understand that there is a man in the Godhead, that there is three elements to this being, that we're trying to wrestle with something that exists outside of space and time and, and, and you know, our reality. It's, it's not something that. I think this is why the Bible warns not to lean on your own understanding too. Because it's like if you're so adamant and not at some point laying this at the feet of God and you know, being patient and, and you know, asking for understanding from the Holy Spirit or any of these things, you're going to come to a bunch of messed up conclusions. I mean, and we see that. I think these kinds of things are what gives birth to, you know, that thing that I mentioned before, this idea of, of, of the demiurge or, or you know.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

You know, the prison planet or the Old Testament. God is not got anything to do with the New Testament, that this is a demon and all these things. Like, it's like despite the fact that the same God of the Old Testament is the God that prophesies the coming of Jesus Christ, you know, however many times, somehow it's not the same. It's not the same God.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, that's what's so annoying about these Jesus only people. And by that I mean the people who say I only read the Gospels, I don't read any other parts of the Bible or some say, go as far as to say I only read the words in red, the words of Jesus. I'm like, that's so idiotic. Because what, without the Old Testament, we wouldn't even know who the Messiah was. There are over 300 prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament. How can you only read the words in red and think you have a full picture of the will of God? You won't know it if you just read the Gospels.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the promises given to Abraham. So you know, the, the idea that you would omit, it's like, okay, so the whole thing is Talking about this thing that happens, and then the New Testament is this thing that happens and its implications. And for some reason, you don't want to see any of, or understand any of what was talking about this, this event coming to pass.

[Raven]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's very strange, but I think it's because people can't figure out how to square it. You talked about, you know, presuppositions and, and agendas and such. I, I, I never had any of that. So by the time I got here and started looking at it, the real simple stuff like, why is God such a meanie? I didn't, I didn't have that hang up, I could see how that would be a really big stumbling block for people. Right. Why is God saying to go in there and wipe out the Amalekites and everything? You know, like, I get that, that seems cruel, but by the time I arrived, I already had the context of the nephilim and all this other stuff, so I didn't have any of those issues. But I, I could see if you didn't have that context. Just trying to understand this, especially through the lens that maybe like, the church gives you. They don't have a lot of answers. You just go, that doesn't make any sense. Dog. He's just killing these kids and everything. He's killing everything. The livestock. Wipe out everything, Everything. Like, yeah, that could, that could be difficult.

[Ed Mabry]

So, yeah, but, yeah, so, so just

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

omit the whole thing.

[Raven]

It's also kind of like, I don't know, this might not be an app comparison, but in the legal system, let's say Ed's on trial, I might have an entire, an entire book of the, whatever Ed did, like, from A to Z pertaining to the proposed crime. But the judge decides what is admissible to the jury, what they're allowed to see.

[Ed Mabry]

Right.

[Raven]

So there could be this idea of, like, as a FJ fool was quoting Jeremiah, you know, like, you knew me before, you knew every word I was gonna say before I was born. And I, I agree with that. It's like, yeah, he does. He can. But if we're gonna have justice here. Is he, can he look at that while you're playing this out? You know what I mean? I suppose he can because he's God, but he doesn't. Because it wouldn't be just so. It's a maybe the answer is yes, yes and yes. Does he know everything? Does he know what you're gonna do? Yeah, he could. But that, that wouldn't be justice. It would have to be withheld from the jury, in order for them to make an accurate decision on the judgment of your life, that's got to be played out. And we have to come to the table with the stuff that you actually did, not me looking and saying, all right, well, that's how it went. So I, I don't know. It's a very complex question.

[Ed Mabry]

It is. But yeah, it is a very complex, complex question. And a lot of these mis misunderstandings really come from what I was saying before about having a false premise. And if the false premise is that God knows everything that ever will happen again, I think that creates more problems than it actually solves. And, and, and, or the idea that God can't ever change his mind. And he does. There's evidence in the Bible where, for example, when, when Moses goes up onto the mountain after the, after the Israelites are freed from, from Egypt and he comes down there worshiping the golden calf and God is mad, he says, you know what? I've done all these things for these people and I'm gonna just, I'm just gonna wipe them all out, Moses, and I'm going to start a new nation with you. He was going to do that, but Moses said, no, don't, because I don't. That won't make you look good to the, you know, to the rest of the world. God said, okay, but, but. And so God changed his mind. But God's will was, was right because what happened, that generation died out anyway because they wouldn't go into the promised land. And so they wonder for 40 years. And it just made it worse because they, if, if, if God had done what he wanted to do and got rid of them early, instead of waiting 40 years, they would have gone into the promised land earlier. And who knows? The descendants of Moses might have been much better Israelites, much better Jews than the ones who ended up going in there. So who knows how the Bible would have turned out if Moses had said, okay, God, do we do your will wipe them out. We'll start over again with, with, you know, with, with my descendants.

[Raven]

So one of the, I'm, I'm really excited for you to watch this episode because one of the things that this guy did bring up and I, I, it's slightly off subject, but I think it, it'll be funnel back in. He was talking about the, the length, the duration of being in hell, and he actually pulled up some scripture about the Aons, the translation of the Greek, how the eight times where it's referred to as eternal, it's referred to as Aeon. But it's a mistranslation and it's only done eight times within the same word.

[Ed Mabry]

I.

[Raven]

When you watch the episode, you'll. You'll be able to go and check for yourself.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay.

[Raven]

Every other time, it's expressed as a duration of time, a finite time, a long time, but has a beginning and an end. When they're talking about hell later on, it's expressed as no end. But now just follow me. This might be stupid. And I don't know. I'm stupid. If God. If I knew that at the end, let's say. And he described hell as a refiner's fire, which is a. Again, interesting idea. And I don't. I'm not sure if I adhere to this at all, but it has been something that I kicked around for a little bit where it's like, what kind of earthly sin can you commit to have eternal punishment? And that is, that is a fair question when we're talking about justice. Do people get punished? Do they go through a fire or a finest fire in order to.

[Ed Mabry]

But.

[Raven]

And also, does God just discard what is his. Like if, if he's. He's created you, does he just burn you and you stay over there, does he discard that forever? These are questions that I, That I ask also. But if he knows in the end. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna burn up. You're gonna come back more refined. I don't need to look at what you're doing right now. Like, if we know the end, play out your story. That's your choice, man. What do you want to do?

[Ed Mabry]

Yes, there's a lot of there and it's probably horrific. No, no, it's not that. No, there's nothing heretical about asking questions. Now when you come to conclusions and say, you know, this is the truth now. Now you're getting into problems making statements, questions. There's nothing, there's never anything wrong with asking questions. I ask them all the time and they're way out there. Like this stuff I've thought about and asked about that I am not even ready, even remotely ready to bring into faith by reason or anything like that. But one thing you said, and this is just to, you know, keep your mind on the idea of we make God responsible for things that he's not responsible for. He said, you know, God made me. Did he? Whose decision was it to. To. To give birth to top lobster? Your mom and dad. God didn't make him do it. A sperm fertilize an egg. Now, granted and it started growing. So you can make the argument that, that, you know, God was forming you. But did, but, but did he initiate your creation?

[Raven]

But that's my body. Like my body was made by my physical parents. And we're like, you know, I'm body, spirit and soul. They didn't make that. People try to make clones all the time and they can't endure spirit into it unless it's some sort of weird demonic activity. I like to assume that my spirit is come from God, like a touch of the divine. And then I'm put into this body.

[Ed Mabry]

And then I can agree with that. But again, getting back to the fundamental question, though, but if your parents had decided, you know, on the night you were conceived. Yeah, I got a headache. I don't feel like it. Well, maybe God. God said we need a top lobster, but, oh, she has a headache, darn it. Oh, well, guess I have to go with Raven, so. But so it, so I, I guess again, this is kind of getting metaphysical, but then you get who's. I mean, whose decision was who. Who's. Who decided your creation? Yes. God had a hand in it after it was decided, after the, you know, the, the zygote. And he had. Whenever it is that God puts the spirit.

[Raven]

But I'm saying, if I'm born one day after the day I was born, am I the same person? Right.

[Ed Mabry]

I don't know yet. These are the questions. I mean, that's a good question. But I'm just saying that, just keep in mind that, you know, a lot of these things are in flux and they're kind of fluid in that sense. But as far as. Because we talked about hell and some of my ideas about hell, and we did the Revelation series, but when we talk about the fire and we have this idea that, you know, it's going to be so painful because it's just, you know, when we get burned, if you've ever been burned, I have it. It hurts like hell, no pun intended. But what Hell is a separation from God. And my, my premise is that heaven is hotter than hell because God is 100 light. And that's going to be the energy that, the heat that we were made for. I think the torment of hell is knowing that you will spend eternity being less than what you were intended to be. That is a torment. It's not, oh my God, I'm on fire and I'm in constant pain. Maybe it will be, I don't know. But what I think, because if, if it's colder, then that means that You're. You were made for a thousand degrees. That's where you feel best. Now you're in like 500 degrees. It's still hot. Remember, spirit, we're not gonna be there in body. That's the other thing when you think about, you know, hell is burning my skin. You're not gonna have skin. You're not going to have organs. You're a spirit. So what does it feel like for a spirit. Spirit to be in torment for whatever period of time. I can look up when I'll watch the episode and see what he means by aeon or whatever. But I do know it's. It's the words eternal and everlasting are used. Refiners. Fire in the Bible is actually used. As far as what we're going through here on Earth, we're being refined here through spiritual fire. I have. I'll look it up. I'll try to look it up again, but I don't. I've never seen hell referred to as refining fire.

[Raven]

Don't take anything I just said right now as an. Attributed to what he said. My bad paraphrasing. He was here yesterday or the day before. Yeah, I'm still. I don't have all like the beats, but I'm trying to express to you a little bit about it was. What I will say is knowing what I know and talking to you for so long and all these other great people that I talked to. When he spoke to us, I was like, something is interesting. So that at the very. That's it. That's all I'm saying.

[Ed Mabry]

I'm always interested in hearing. I mean, I. And I'll. I will be. I'll be happy to watch it and give my thoughts. Maybe next time. Well, because I. I'm blocking off more time. So I think Fridays still do work for me a little later. Like right around this time when we started, like 12 my time. Or maybe a little after. But I know you guys, it's more. It's a little more inconvenient for you because it's later in the day. But I'll try to be on more regularly.

[Raven]

Oh, no.

[Ed Mabry]

Do we want to bring it for a landing or do you want to talk one more Cane myth?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

We have time for another Cayman, if you want to do another.

[Ed Mabry]

Because I have a bunch you already know.

[Raven]

Anytime. Whatever, man.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Raven]

We're down.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay. Appreciate it. But. And if you go to my Patreon, if you're one of my patrons, you will. It's already on. It's already there. It'll be on faith.reason.net soon to full. Like I think it's like half hour, 40, 40 minutes. I go through all of them, but another one is the mark of Kane. That's another mystery because the Bible isn't clear what this mark of Cain is. People put all their weird theories on it. And one of the theories about that the mark of Cain is skin color.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, yeah, I've heard this before. White, like a pale skin.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, either pale or dark depending on, on which side of the racism divide you're on. If you're a dark skinned racist, then the mark of Kane was white skin. If you're a white races and the mark of Kane was dark skinned.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yes, yeah, yeah, okay, I hear what you're saying. Yep.

[Ed Mabry]

And so all Kane's descendants are the people you don't like. That's. So it really comes down to separating. Like no, I'm good because I'm part of the good, good descendants of Adam and people I don't like are, you know, are part of the bad descendants. So it's descendants of, of Adam through Cain. So I cannot, I can justify not liking them and thinking that they're inferior for whatever reason. But the reason that's a myth is for two number one Bible to say what the mark of Cain is.

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[Ed Mabry]

It doesn't say and, and let's say it was, let's say for the sake of argument it was skin color. So what? The mark was only on Cain. It didn't go to his descendants. So when he had kids, there's nothing that would lead you to believe that they had the mark because the mark was specifically so that anyone who encountered him would not put extra judgment on, on him because God already judged him. So anything extra. So if you saw Cain and you like, you know, kick the crap out of him for killing Abel, well what, what you're doing is saying, well God, your punishment wasn't enough stuff, I'm gonna kick crap out of this guy. You're just so. That's that's disobedience to God. And, and you're subject to justice now sevenfold. So that's the purpose of the mark, was to do that. So his kids, you know, and some of his kids were terrible people, like, you know, guy named Lamech who killed a guy and all that stuff. But they didn't get the mark on them for that. So it doesn't matter what it was. And, and, and, and just to put a big cap on it, no matter what you think of King's descendants, whether you think they were Reptilians, whether you think they all had a mark on them, them, it doesn't matter because they all died in the flood, his descendants. Now, some people come back and say, well, what about the wives? What about Noah's wife? And the wives of his three sons? Could they have been of the line of Cain? Possibly. I can't say that they weren't. But even so, the seed goes through the mail. So those, though, they're under the line of Seth because of Moses. I'm. Excuse me. Because of Noah. So all of, all of the line of Cain, all the seed of Cain died in the flood. So it doesn't matter what you think of them, they're gone. So that kind of, so, so it's, so it's all kind of, you know, it's all academic. They're not here anymore. The only people, all of us, we are descendants of Noah.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Actually, that's funny, because I, I know that there are various groups, like, I think the, the black Hebrew Israelites will use, like, the mark of Cain to, to say that white people are. And I, I, you know, I went

[Ed Mabry]

to school with some of those guys. I, I was, they were with me in college. I was like, I, I, it was fascinating, but I'm like, yeah, just so full of crap. But I, I, like, your stories are interesting.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we always joked around and said because they're so obtuse that it would be hilarious. And I almost wouldn't be surprised if it turned out like, no, that's actually, yeah, they were Israelites. And I'd be like, yep. All right, there you go. That checks out.

[Ed Mabry]

I just don't understand why everybody wants to be an Israelite. When we talked about this before, there's no reason. Yeah. These guys, oh, I'm. I'm the real. I'm, I'm the law. I'm one of the lost 10 tribes. Like, O. Why the promises to the church are so much better than the promises to Israel.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

We sucked really Bad in the past. You know what I mean? Like, we're the ones that were constantly worshiping false idols and such. Yeah, yeah. Mind tripping. Paul Stobs, outside of the, like, he's

[Raven]

like, oh, you're basically everything different than Paul Stobbs.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well, he's saying, you get a theory. You get a theory. It's like everybody's got a different thing.

[Raven]

I just think it's funny. It's like little seasoned believers, they do

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

get upset, but this is how they do.

[Raven]

I think this is what this discussion is about. Whether we're talking about hell or we're talking about the. The nature of the knowledge of God. If you get some of these things wrong, the rest of your theology that branches off from it, it's going to be super crazy. Yeah, you can go way up that. But that's like sinning, right?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Like, so missing the mark. Yeah, yeah.

[Ed Mabry]

I'm open to my theory being wrong. I'm open to all my. To my theories being wrong. If it's not. Not directly in the Bible, I'm open to it being wrong. It's like, I think the little season is wrong. I don't think that. I've never met Paul Stubbs. I don't. I'm not saying he's a bad person. I'm not saying JT's a bad person or whoever else. I'm just saying I don't agree with your theory, and here's why. And if someone comes to me and says, ed, your theory is wrong, and here's why the Bible proves it's wrong. Thank you.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah.

[Raven]

I'm not throwing shade at them. He's like, he's not a little seasoner. I'm just making the observation that it's interesting as one of your beliefs, how one of your beliefs informs the others.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well, that's how denominations happen. Right?

[Raven]

That's how denomination.

[Ed Mabry]

Exactly.

[Raven]

They accused us of that in the YouTube comments. And I was like, I'm not trying

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

to start a new denomination.

[Raven]

They're like, we get it. You don't like the way this church does it, and you don't like the way this. And I was like, yeah, but I don't. I just don't like that. And they're like, well, you're gonna start a new church. And I was like, I'm not trying to.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

So the. The letters to the seven churches were about starting denominations. You know how many of them were judged very harsh?

[Ed Mabry]

Four out four? Yeah, actually, yeah. Four out of seven. Only two had nothing bad said about them. So Five out of seven.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Five out of seven. Judged very harshly. So the point was denominations. Like, no, it's, it's calling a spade a spade. When something is bad about a thing, you, you address that thing. And if, if something is good about it, you address that as well as, as good. But that's what it is. It's like, you got this right and you got this wrong. You know, it's.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah, exactly. And I've, I've had to change my. Several of my theories because people have called it out to me, me. And I had to be open to it. And again, it's not easy being told, you're wrong. No one likes to be wrong. And I wouldn't say that when I'm point. When something wrong is pointed out that I'm instantly, like, instantly, instantly. Like, yeah, no, I, I agree. I'm like, no, I've got to search it. And then I'll say, okay, like, my theory on the, on the Rapture. I grew up being like hardcore pre trib and nothing else for most of my life. Then someone came along and they said, hey, here's check this out. And I was like, nah. And it took a few, it took a couple years. I'm like, okay, well, I've got it. They have a good point. Point. Their point makes more biblical sense than mine. So I had to change it. It was uncomfortable. But it's not about being right. I mean, it's not about your theory being right. It's about God being right and being closer and being more righteous by being closer to God. So, yeah, we all have theories. I don't care if mine are wrong. Great. Show me where I'm wrong. Show me wrong.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's the thing, man. If we're in this game of theories in some way because we're people who are interested in, in the truth and we're interested in, in ideas and, and, and, you know, we have imaginations. We're trying to bring this thing to life. We're going to start thinking about, well, what if. And does this mean this? And, you know, we're going to have questions. And what I can guarantee you is if you are that type of person, you're going to be wrong. You're going to be wrong. There's no way in hell. I've been wrong for so many. It's like so many things. I mean, if I look back to half the crap I believed 15 years ago, I've killed off so much. You know what I mean? So it's just, it's a matter of Being a fallible human being. And you said it right. You get into trouble when you start saying this is true. This thing that I've theorized is now something that is. Is true. And you, you know, and you start telling other people that this is the truth, that that's a problem. But to say, I think. Because I've wondered if like, yeah, that's, that's, that's fine, man.

[Raven]

And.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

But you could definitely see how that kind of thing leads to all the denominations and all that other crap. It's a. It's a wild, never ending branch.

[Ed Mabry]

Exactly. And like I said, I'll talk a few minutes ago when he said, you know, I was created by God and say. Well, I didn't say you weren't. I said, well, well, let's ask a question. Did God create you or was it your parents? And that's an open question. I could be wrong on that. Maybe God said, you know, I need a Top lobster. Boom, there he goes. I'm gonna put on some Marvin Gaye and. And put play that in the. In the ears of Top's mom.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That actually is what your mom was playing

[Raven]

on one of docs date docs myself. Never mind. I won't say.

[Ed Mabry]

Well, I just did my brain of Marvin Gaye, so that's funny.

[Raven]

I figured out. I was like, was this a holiday where you guys smashed. Very rude.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh, you did the math on it.

[Raven]

I did the math. And I was like, hold on a second.

[Ed Mabry]

I was, I was a Valentine's baby. My mom told me that. Yeah, I was. That was conceived on Valentine's in November. So, yeah, nine months from there.

[Raven]

Let's just say my parents were celebrating Jesus's birthday.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I honestly, this is, this is going to be. This is what I've heard about my parents. I was conceived. This is going to be such a. I'm never going to live this down. And I. But I have to say it now and I. I know it's gonna. I was conceived in a. In a trash can in the back.

[Ed Mabry]

Se. What? Of a pinto.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

In a zoo.

[Bluff]

In a zoo.

[Ed Mabry]

What do you mean?

[Raven]

So I'm sorry, this is not part of the. What?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

No, I mean, what I. That was my under. It was a. You know, like where they keep animals in cages.

[Raven]

This show is. This show is not about. It's not about God. It's not about conspiracy. It's about figuring out the. What little pieces of David's upbringing I can put together and to really understand who he is as a human being.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, yeah, I remembered that that's actually something I didn't think about very often, but you guys mentioned that, and I remember that story coming up and it was.

[Raven]

That's a story for an F2America. Get that together.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah.

[Raven]

Holy, guys.

[Ed Mabry]

All right, so I think on that note, I think we need to bring this in for a landing now that we know that that raven was conceived in a monkey cage.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I don't know where it was, man. I just know it was in like one of the, the. The ones in. What's the big one in New York? The Bronx Zoo in the Bronx? I think so.

[Ed Mabry]

Yeah.

[Raven]

Incredible.

[Ed Mabry]

Wow.

[Raven]

Ed, thanks. Thanks for coming on.

[Ed Mabry]

Thanks, man.

[Raven]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna thank the chat too, because these episodes are super interactive.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's.

[Raven]

It's always fun.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah. Sorry if we don't get. It's not necessarily that we want people to pay for. If you pay, we're gonna pay you

[Raven]

the respects of like, in a different color.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I don't want your money to go to waste. We don't set out to let people ask questions. If we happen to see something as it goes by, we catch it, even if it's not paid. If it's interesting, we might address it. But if it is paid, like, yeah, we're going to address it. I don't want you to throw your money away.

[Ed Mabry]

So we wish we should collate some of these and just like have a. Have a few Q A episodes.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

We should do that. Yeah, we should do that. I would like to do some Q A episodes. That'd be fun.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay.

[Raven]

That would be fun. We have material set up for, for us and Ed. Ed's gonna take this full time and he's going to go to the moon.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I got to think about.

[Ed Mabry]

That's the goal. Dave's got to think about his good

[Raven]

stuff and tell the people one more time where they can find your stuff, where they can find you.

[Ed Mabry]

So faith by reason.net is where my legacy material, all the stuff I've been doing for well over a decade now is there. You become a member, you get access to everything. But there is free stuff there. So, you know, a lot of the early stuff is free. The, the podcast videos, those are for subscribers, but you can still get a ton of information there. You can also join the Spiritual Warfare course, which is an app out permanently half off the original price. So if the price was a barrier to you before, hopefully you can afford. Afford half of that. And it is a 12 month intensive course. You get a lot of stuff. You get, you know, you get you know, every week you get, you get videos, you get workbooks, you get audio. You also, you get books that, that I've written that, that my partner John Linhart has written. You get, basically John is taking you through a core, a 700 course that he does as part of this on, on the mind and the brain and the way we think and the godly thought process, which is vital. We're going through that right now. So it's half price. We're in month three right now. So you can still hop aboard. You can catch up. Even if you, even if you want to join like you know, in six months, you can still, it's still, it's self directed. But if you, if you join the higher tier, you can be a part of our live coaching session. So you do want to get to that because I don't want you to get too far behind on the live coaching because we've had some amazing like 2 hour long coaching sessions with folks that when we, we answer questions, we give people, you know, coaching through their spiritual warfare needs. It's been amazing. And also there is my patreon on patreon.com faithbyreason. That's where you get new episodes. First the cane myth one just dropped this week and it'll be on Faith by reason later. But you also get, we have Q and A's there, we have the Bible study is, is there. So if you become a part of the Bible study, we go through the entire Bible in 12 months from the supernatural point of view. And you can be a part of that on Patreon as well. So yeah, hop aboard.

[Raven]

Excellent. I think I'm going to listen to your episode here on Kane on the ride home.

[Ed Mabry]

Cool.

[Raven]

Yeah, yeah, it's a solid move, right?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

It's a solid move.

[Raven]

If you guys aren't listening to Ed on the ride home, I don't know what you're doing, but thank you.

[Ed Mabry]

I'll put some more stuff up on Spreaker for the, for the audio only, people.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

That's a good idea, man.

[Raven]

Good movie.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

We gotta figure that out.

[Raven]

Bother David to give you all those episodes?

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Yeah, episodes.

[Ed Mabry]

I think bugging you till you get them to me.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

770 something episodes probably.

[Raven]

We'll work on it.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

I'll get the number down. At least I'll know how many appearances he made.

[Raven]

Maybe we'll put it on like a drive and then when you come here I can give you the drive.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh, that would be perfect.

[Ed Mabry]

It's in like was like a month and a half before and it's probably

[Raven]

been even longer that I've had your. Your sign, and it's hanging up in my house. My kids like it.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Well, you got to shift that. You're gonna have to eat the cost flying back with it. Yeah, do that.

[Raven]

It's like your package is overweight, so. All right.

[Ed Mabry]

Okay, thanks.

[Raven]

Thank you for coming on, Mr. Mabry. And, guys, thank you for hanging out.

[David Lee Corbo (Top Lobster)]

Oh, wait, wait. Don't forget, soccer's gay. Go ahead. I saw some people talking about it. I can't stand it.

[Raven]

All right, bye, guys. We'll see you later. Oh, wait.

[Ed Mabry]

I didn't.

[Raven]

I didn't end the stream.

[Ed Mabry]

They will do it again. The end is written in the book. In the pages they For.

[Bluff]

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