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Nephilim Death Squad
Fridays Are For The Lord w/ Ed Mabrie & Matt Hepner
01:38:41
Can Christians recognize spiritual warfare before it's too late? In this special Fridays Are For The Lord episode of Nephilim Death Squad, Ed Mabrie (Faith By Reason) joins Matt Hepner and TopLobsta for a deep conversation about spiritual warfare,...
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- [00:01]
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- [00:30]
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- [00:56]
Top Lobster
Wayfair.
- [00:57]
Ed Mabry
Every style, every home.
- [00:59]
Matt
Oh.
- [01:00]
Top Lobster
Top Lobster Productions.
- [01:05]
Ed Mabry
In the shadows of the ancient ones. They never went away. They're still here today. When the last trumpet sounds and the heavens crack.
- [01:53]
Top Lobster
Welcome back to Nephilim Death Squad. We're going to do the show a little bit different today. Shout out to Dingus McLean. Do you think I could let my kids six, three and six months watches? Yes, it's going to be an extra good, extra clean episode of nds David's not here. Today we're joined by Matt, the the daddy of of coffee and me. Whatever. I'm not going to do all the plugs. We have Ed Mabry. Ed Mabry's back. And Fridays are for the Lord. It's really good to have you back. We have everything confirmed you're coming to Bohemian Grove. Everybody knows the plugs. We know the Patreon, we know the top lobster. Ed, where can they find you? What are you doing? What have you been up to?
- [02:31]
Ed Mabry
Yeah, so you can find me on two main places and that is my website, faithbyreason.net so tons of stuff there, hundreds of hours of study material. You can also join my spiritual warfare course there. So a couple of new things to talk about with the spiritual warfare course. I am offering to a special deal. Special coupon code for just for the Nephilim Death Squad crew, you guys. If you join up and you put in the coupon code NDS you get seven days free. You can check out the first month of the spiritual warfare course for free. And if you like it, if you think it's, if it works for you. And we've had, people have been having amazing breakthroughs. There's one of our students just said, you know, we've rewired his brain in just the four months we've been doing it and he's like doing really well. And everyone I've been, we've been getting tons of compliments, people just telling us that it's, it's life changing for them. But I understand that if you want to check it out before you pay, put in nds, capital nds and a coupon code on the signup page and you get seven days. And you can check out the first month of content that's videos, workbook quiz, things like that. You also have access to some of the books that are available there. So if after seven days you'd like it, just, you know, keep going. And if not, then you can cancel. But, but I want to give the NDS crew that opportunity to do that also. I just dropped a new book that is called the Jesus Code, Christ's Final Message to the Church. This is based on Revelation, chapters one through four, focusing on the seven letters to seven churches. I do a deep dive, deep breakdown into all those churches, the message that Jesus had, because these are the epistles of Jesus. We talk about the epistles of Paul and Peter and whatnot, but Jesus wrote these letters, so these are directly from him. And they apply not only to those specific churches in Asia Minor back then, but they also, they apply to all churches and to us individually. And the really cool thing about it is if you lay out those churches in the order that Jesus speaks to them, they actually outline all of church history from the apostolic age with the Church of Ephesus to the rise of the pagan church with Dyatira, which is where, you know, paganism, Roman Catholic Catholicism came in to the Reformation church at Sardis, all the way up to our current church age, the Laodicean Church, which is the, the postmodern, you know, emergent church. And we break that down, we talk about the Rapture. You know, what is the Rapture? Is it real? Did John Darby invented, did the church fathers talk about it, go into all that stuff? And, and so it's all in this book and it's for this month only. If you saw, if you get the book either through my website or through my Patreon, then it's half off and it's also. Yes, it's half off there. And if you are a member, if you're a Faith by Reason member, it's complimentary. If you're a Patreon member, I'm still setting it up on Patreon. You can purchase it on Patreon. But if you're already one of my tier, Tier one, Tier two or above members, just hold off because I'm. I want to get it to you guys either free or discount it based on your tier, but I'm working that out.
- [05:35]
Top Lobster
Excellent. Man Ed is always hard at work. This. Good news, people. Good news. You got. You have more stuff. We were actually covering this sort of, sort of this idea of spiritual warfare on. On Straight Bible. Just that this recent episode where you're talking about, like, the people that we're fighting with are blind.
- [05:55]
Ed Mabry
Yeah.
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Top Lobster
And we're being beat up by this spiritual realm that is bullying us to hell.
- [06:00]
Ed Mabry
Yeah.
- [06:01]
Top Lobster
And we don't even know that we're being pushed into this dark corner until you're born again. And then when. Well, who is it? Jesus was talking to? Nicodemus, right?
- [06:08]
Matt
Yeah.
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Top Lobster
And he said, yeah, you can't see
- [06:10]
Matt
the kingdom of God until you're born again. Right. You could be an intellectual like Nicodemus probably was, but you can't, you can't see it until you've been born again.
- [06:19]
Top Lobster
Right.
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Matt
Right.
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Top Lobster
So it's like, it's. It's a great idea of, like, understanding how to see this stuff because, like, even, you know, I'm born again. But even, even so, it's still hard for me to, like, see clearly. Like, see perfectly exactly where I'm. What I'm supposed to do. And like, you know, we're always failing all the time, but we, we need as much help as possible.
- [06:37]
Matt
Amen.
- [06:38]
Ed Mabry
Yeah. So what we do it in our course. We started out. I think I've talked about this before. It's in, like, it's in four sections, four quarters for three months. The first three months, which we just wrapped up, is defense. We're teaching you, you know, how to defend yourself. The last post I put up, the last lesson was on the armor of God. So how to put on the armor of God. How to know yourself. Know your weaknesses. Because these entities, they know you. You have a. We all have a familiar spirit, and they know your weaknesses. They know how to get to you. But the very first thing I te the spiritual warfare class is the most basic, which is that you already have victory. You have already won this. Jesus gave you the authority. So the, there's only two ways. There's only one way to, to lose a fight, and that's not to fight. And that's the main strategy of the enemy. They want to get you not to fight. And they do it two major ways. Either they try to convince you that it's not them, that they are not the ones causing your problems. They'll say it's all you. You know, it's your, you're just being a jerk. You're being a jackass. It's your fault. You, you just have bad luck, bad circumstances. You were born under the. Born under the wrong sign, as the old song would say. And you're just, you know, it's everything that happens is your fault. But so you don't believe anything bad is happening to you spiritually, so you don't fight against them, but the other way they do. Once you do recognize, hey, you know what this is? There's a spiritual component to this. This isn't just an accident. Then they go the other way and say, okay, yeah, it's us, but we're more powerful than you. We are the almighty angels. We are the Elohim. We've been around for thousands of years. You can't fight us. You're just, you know, you're nothing. And then you're too scared to fight. You know, my grandmother, we used to always, we, I used to watch the news with her growing up and she would always say, you know, the devil's busy, you know, he's just out doing all this stuff. When she would see the news show, the news stories and it gave, it gave the impression to me, oh, well, it's nothing we can do. The devil controls the world. I think we're going to probably talk about that a bit. And we're no, we're just his victims. So if you think you're a victim, you're not going to fight. You know, and if you think that the spiritual realm isn't real, you're not going to fight. But I'll end with this analogy. We have the power through Jesus. It's not our own power that we're casting about that we're fighting and defending ourselves and going on the offense. It's through the power of Jesus. So we are more powerful than these entities through Jesus. So it's like imagine this. If you were attacked by a five year old boy, what would you do? You would pick him up and throw his ass somewhere. He's just a kid. But what if you didn't think you could beat him? Beat Him. What if you thought that he was more powerful than you and you just curled up in a ball? Well, that five year old is just going to start wailing on you and eventually wear you down. But if you know your power and you know how to fight, then you can toss that kid aside. And that's what we are. We are the adult, the spiritual realm. They're the five year old kid. They can't beat us because we have the Holy Spirit inside of us. We have the spirit of God. God is bigger than them, so they can't beat us unless we don't fight or we don't know how.
- [09:33]
Top Lobster
I like that idea. We, we were even talking before about the idea of the Holy Spirit. You had some issue with Pastor Rick saying, no, I don't have an issue with.
- [09:43]
Matt
I was just asking why like some people say Holy Spirit instead of the Holy Spirit and I was just asking why, like, like if in the Bible he's referred to as the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost, is it possible like in the same way, like our context for a lot of people is like there's only one God, there's only God. But come to find out there's tons of lowercase g gods. So like, is it possible that like there's other. I'm doing finger quotes and I know this is probably blasphemy for a lot of people. Is there other holy spirits, if you will, that are, that are parading as the Holy Spirit? But there's one. The Holy Spirit. Just like God says, I am the God, there's none beside me. And so it gets it just to me. I just thought it was weird to hear people say Holy Spirit as opposed to the Holy Spirit.
- [10:23]
Ed Mabry
I can tell you this, so great point there. So the word holy, the definition of holy is of one kind. So there is only one Holy Spirit of God because holiness of one kind. But there are others that can imitate the voice. And that's something we actually went over about three weeks ago in the spiritual warfare course. Because this is some, this is huge. This is something. When I was canvassing my members, asking them, you know, what are you looking for in this class? As we're trying to come up with a curriculum, myself and John Linhart, my, my, my co teacher, what we hear a lot is, you know what, I want to distinguish the voice of God from the other voices out there because I, when I pray to God, I feel like I've heard something back, but I don't know if it's from God. And, and that is A really serious topic because we have four voices coming at us at any one time. We do have the voice of the Holy Spirit. He's communicating to us all the time. You can't be saved without him. He's talking to everyone, whether you're a Christian or not. He has, of course he talks to you uniquely, but. But he's speaking to you. But you also have the other three, the world, the flesh, and the devil that the apostle Paul talks about. So all four voices are coming at you. How do you distinguish which one is God's and which one is the world, the flesh or the devil? And, and we, we go over that in the class and we have a whole workbook section and video session on that. But just know that in the Bible, the voice of God is quiet. Elijah. In the, the story of Elijah in, in the Book of. I think it's first or second Kings, forgive me on that. But he. There was an earthquake, but God's voice wasn't in the earthquake. There was a, you know, windstorm. And God wasn't in the windstorm. There was a flame. He wasn't in the flame. He was a still, small voice. So the loud voices are not going to be from God. God speaks to you in a quiet voice. Why? He's bigger than all those. Why do you speak into a. Because if I were to whisper to you right now, how would you hear me? You got to lean in. You got to. Got to focus. That's what God wants. He wants you to lean in. He says that you will find me if you seek after me with your whole heart. God wants us to seek after him, so he's going to speak to us quietly. We have to be focused on him to hear his voice. The other voices are screaming at us. The world is screaming at us about, you know, you gotta, you got, you have to, you know, be in politics, you've got to be rich or whatever. All the things that the world is telling you, all the messages that we get from the world and how to act. The flesh, the flesh is telling you, be comfortable. You know, don't go after. Don't, don't grow, grow. Growth hurts. Just be as comfortable as you can. Take the easy road. That's the word of the flesh. The flesh always oppose the spirit. The spirit wants you to grow. God wants you to continually grow. The flesh wants you to just be comfortable and have that what, what John Lenhardt calls the animal thought process or the, the, the comfort level thought process. And the devil always going to accuse you. He's Always gonna say, it's your fault, you're doing this wrong. Or he's going to give you what John calls a right. What with a wrong how or why. What that means is a right. What is. He'll tell you something that may be factually true, but he will give you the wrong. The wrong doctrine and the wrong context. Remember when Satan tempted Jesus? He quoted a Bible verse, and he quoted that verse accurately. He said, you know, if you are the son of God, throw yourself off this building. Because it is written that. That I'm paraphrasing that, you know, the. God will send his angels to bear you up before your foot even hits a stone. He quoted. That's from the Book of Psalms. He quoted it accurately. But it was the wrong context. It wasn't. The context was, hey, I'm going to dare God to do it. Do this. If you jump off a building right now, guess what? You're going to go splat. Despite that verse. Because that verse was. First of all, it was poetry. It was not meant to be taken as. If you throw yourself off any building, God's going to catch you. No, you have to take it for what it means. So he'll give you the right what, but wrong how and why? And that's where bad doctrine comes in. You can say, oh, I read this in the Bible. You know, I read that, you know, Jesus is a rock, therefore, you know, rocks are God. Or, you know, Jesus said, he's living water, so waters and rocks are God. I can worship nature.
- [14:11]
Top Lobster
So, yes, like the whole Peter thing and like the church built on this rock, and it's like, oh, man.
- [14:16]
Ed Mabry
Exactly.
- [14:17]
Top Lobster
Years later, and people are losing their minds.
- [14:21]
Ed Mabry
All bad doctrine comes from a right what, a wrong, how and why. Hey, I read this in the Bible. You know, Jesus said, love everyone. You know, God is love. So that means God must be the love that I've defined him as, which, you know, some benevolent feeling you have. As opposed to what? The real definition of love, which is sacrifice giving without getting anything in return. That's what love is. But if you have the wrong definition of love, then you're going to think that love is this, you know, squishy, you know, almost effeminate feeling, which is why we've couched Jesus in the terms of, you know, this basically wimpy, effeminate guy in a skinny guy in a white robe, you know, with a lamb under one arm and a little kid under the other arm saying, peace and love, brother. Which was not what Jesus was like at all. Jesus was hardcore. But we don't see that because again we have again, right what wrong power. Why? That's the voice of the devil. And so that's how you have to distinguish those voices.
- [15:16]
Matt
We, we talked about that same passage earlier this week that yeah, Satan came and he brought a passage. He said it is written but like the whole way we're supposed to be doing this is like Jesus, he said, yeah, but it is also written like that's the whole way Jesus dealt with it was like, yeah, it's written, but it is also written. And we got to find this balance, man. Because like always like it seems like accurate doctrine is always found in the balance of like it is written, but it is also written like finding that instead of taking one passage and just taking out of context and blowing it
- [15:43]
Ed Mabry
up, right, it has to be the right context. Like in the armor of God lesson that we did a couple weeks ago, we talked. The last thing that Paul talks about, well, one of the second last thing he talks about is the sword of the spirit. And that sword is a, the Roman short sword. And it's only effective in close quarters and it's only effective with a lot of training. So the spirit, the sword of the spirit is the word of God. So you have to be trained on it. You have to use the right verse at the right time. That's what Jesus did. When Jesus countered Satan and when he was being tempted, he, he didn't just quote some random verse. He had, he was trained in the scriptures and he knew the right scripture to use at the exact right time in the exact right context. And that takes training.
- [16:24]
Top Lobster
This idea of close quarters too. Yeah, man. Maybe what we're doing here with the online thing is a bit of a misstep because like you see a lot
- [16:34]
Matt
of,
- [16:36]
Top Lobster
I don't know, a lot of, a lot of the con, like the modern church kind of falls apart because it gets large so it's no longer close quarters and it's hey everybody, lady luck here.
- [16:48]
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- [17:16]
Wayfair Announcer
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- [17:42]
Ed Mabry
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- [17:45]
Wayfair Announcer
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- [17:45]
Top Lobster
Now like how could you accurately strike your opponent? How could you use this weapon accurately or at all when you're over bloated?
- [17:52]
Ed Mabry
But you know, it's so funny because, because I know you guys have been talking about especially you talk been on talking about the Orthodox church stuff like the past couple months. I know that's been. No, I get it. But my point with that is that we have the wrong definition of what church is. Church is not a building, it's not an organization. And that's what the orthodox and the Catholic Catholics will tell you. We're the only true church. You have to believe what we believe in worshiping our big gigantic, you know, ornate buildings. And listen to our priests who are decked out in these, you know, pimped out robes with a big cross with jewels all over it. Somehow that's supposed to be a representative of a humble carpenter from Nazareth. Yeah, that, that is the opposite of what Jesus would have been. Jesus didn't have a home when Jesus was in his ministry. He only stayed with other people. He said the son of man has no place to lay his head. We're supposed to believe that that same Jesus, the humble itinerant rabbi, should be represented by just multi million dollar in today's money, cathedrals and palaces. No, that's for man. Man is all about appearances. God is about the heart. Jesus didn't say go build me a big building. He didn't say give me the finest robes. No, Jesus only spoke about what's in the spirit was in your heart, which you're supposed to do. So the only. And the orthodox say that. Well they revere the church fathers. Well the church fathers, you know, from two, 300 years after Christ. They're the ones who knew what, how church was supposed to be conducted. And they had bishops and cardinals and whatever and they were in these buildings and they had all these sacraments so we should obey them and do and do church like them because they knew what, what Church was supposed to be. And that's, that's, that's the orthodox excuse how they are the real church because they're, they're following after the church fathers. Well, here's a huge problem with that. We're revering these church fathers who were 2, 300 years after Jesus because they knew how to do things right. Well, look at most of Paul's letters. They were to churches that were around between 20 and 30 years after Jesus had died and resurrected during the lifetime of his disciples. And they were screwing up. His letters were admonitions, the letters to the Corinthians. They, they were, they had hierarchy. They were saying if you spoke in tongues, you were better than Christians who didn't speak in tongues. And Paul had to chastise him. He had to write two letters to them saying, you guys are scre up. The church at Galatia, they were trying to put Christians back under the law. And Paul called them fools. He said, you foolish Galatians. Why Jesus freed us from that. He gave us freedom of the Holy Spirit. Why are you trying to put us back under that? You know, so you can go on and on. So if the churches that were within 20 to 30 years of Jesus were already screwing up to the point where half the New Testament is Paul admonishing them and telling them how to get themselves right, why do we believe that, that church fathers two, 300 years afterwards got it right? That makes no sense. The only example we have of a church where were working the way God wanted is, is the first half of the book of Acts. And those churches were not in big buildings. They did not have a hierarchy. They, they were, they, there were no Christians who were above other Christians because of whatever reason. Because they, you know, they were considered pastor, bishop, blah blah blah. No, they were in houses and they were in close quarters like you just talked about. Top. That's why I'm bringing us all back to. They would worship in churches, just a few of them gathered together and they shared with each other all of their struggles, all of their victories. And they, they taught each other in small groups. That's where you get to learn how to use the sword of the Spirit. That close quarters training and these big buildings where you have thousands of people. Again, if that's your thing, go ahead and do it, but you're not going to get that kind of training if you show up once a week to a mega church or a mega cathedral and you get a one way message. Pastor teaches, you say great and you leave. He doesn't Know what's going on with you. There's too many of you there. So the church. If you want to emulate the true church, then you should be in small groups.
- [21:44]
Matt
Amen. And doesn't that fly in the face of, like, even your most recent book that you're talking about? It's the Letter to Seven Churches. And there's this concept of, like, oh, we are the only true church. Like, it's like, okay, that flies in the face of, like, a letter to seven churches. Or even Paul, at the end of the Roman letter, he. He addresses, like, six little home churches in Rome. It's not like the concept isn't like there's just one giant church and you got to belong to that one church.
- [22:09]
Ed Mabry
Exactly. It's contradictory. And it amazes me how people can read the Bible if they are reading it, not studying it. Yeah, they're probably reading it, but not studying it. How you can claim you know the Bible and still do things that are in complete opposition to it, like saying, there's only one organism, there's only one church in our organization is a true Christian. And if you're not one of us, you're not fully Christian. There is no biblical precedent for that. You are a Christian by believing in the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus for your sins. There's no hierarchy. There's no better Christians. There's no, like, you know, super Christian. Then you're just an okay Christian. You're a bad Christian. No.
- [22:50]
Top Lobster
Sometimes when I tell this stuff to Matt, and I'm like, I don't think he understands or I don't think he believes me because, like, when I'm saying it, he's just going, there's no way somebody said that to you.
- [23:00]
Matt
And I'm like, that's true. Yeah, I'm always. I'm like, no, they wouldn't. They wouldn't say that. But then they do say that.
- [23:08]
Ed Mabry
I. I get stuff all the time from people. I mean, for whatever reason, a couple years ago, I was on the radar of the Seventh Day Adventist, and they kept telling me, you are not a true Christian if you don't worship Jesus on Saturday. Okay, what if I worship him on Wednesday? Does God say, nope, we're closed today. Not hearing your prayers on Wednesday. You have to worship me on Sunday. I mean, on Saturday, rather, you can worship Jesus anytime you want. It's not a specific day.
- [23:32]
Top Lobster
Yeah, we're doing the Sermon on the Mount, and we're up to the Lord's Prayer. You know, it's like, give and we're up to specifically that that point was like, give us this day our daily bread. And it's like, that's inferring today and that's it. You get bread for today and then tomorrow you're gonna have to ask for more bread. So it's like a daily occurrence. Maybe even more than once a day. But yeah, that's what, that's what, that's pretty much all we can ask for. It seems like maybe if we're a container, can we be filled only for a day or temporarily before we need to be like be poured back in again?
- [24:10]
Bluff
I don't know.
- [24:11]
Ed Mabry
I do believe that because in my spiritual warfare class and in my personal spiritual warfare, I have to do it every day. Every day when I wake up, I, I start my prayer by saying, you know, I, I, I claim the authority of Jesus by his blood that was shed for me and the authority that he gave me. I quote Luke 10:19, that you've given us power to tread over serpents and scorpions, over the power of, over the spiritual evil, and nothing shall by any means hurt me. And I pray that over myself, over my family, over my life, over my finances, over my career, everything. And do that every day because I found when I don't do it, I get attacked. So clearly that only lasts for, it's a 24 hour thing or however many hours you're awake. You got to redo it because there's an expiration date on it.
- [24:54]
Top Lobster
We've done like a thousand episodes with Ed and I never asked because Matt's told us a bunch of times about when, when he wakes up, what his process is. But that's, that's your process. Every day. You take like however much time to do this thing.
- [25:07]
Ed Mabry
Yeah, and when I forget to do it, I, I noticed it and I have to have to stop and say, okay, I'm under spiritual attack right now. You know, this is just some BS going on. That's not normal. And I've got to take my time, get in focus on God and just, and, and, and claim that, claim the authority that I have and get into that prayer. And you know, and that, you know that there's that free prayer that you can even get on faith by reason.net if you, the spiritual warfare prayer, if you know that's, that's not a part of the course. If you just want to pray that prayer, it's a long prayer, but you can pray the sections that are pertaining to you and, but I, you need to do that daily. You gotta fight every Day.
- [25:42]
Top Lobster
It's funny, this. This topic came up. Me and David were just on Tinfoil Hat again because we got on Mount Crusher. Hold on.
- [25:49]
Ed Mabry
Oh, sweet. Good. Good for you guys.
- [25:52]
Top Lobster
Hell, yeah. So we made it on this, and we were talking with Sam, and we were like. The episode went a bunch of different places, but one of the. The. The parts that was important was Sam was talking about this same idea, and it happened to him the previous day. He was like, yeah, man. He's like, something's going on. I think they turned. Because they turned Cern off, and I'm just feel like. I felt like under attack and. And I'm like, oh, yep, Sam, like, you're. You're experiencing, like, a spiritual warfare. And then I told him the story about, you know, me experiencing the spiritual warfare, but, like, not knowing how to deal with it because, you know, I'm just. You're just blind.
- [26:28]
Ed Mabry
When.
- [26:28]
Top Lobster
When I had, like, the whole witchcraft thing going on in my house, and I had no idea until much, much later on and look back and go, oh, yeah, that would seem like it was witchcraft.
- [26:37]
Matt
It's weird when there's this thing, then that thing, and I don't know how it goes for you, Ed, but then when it. All of a sudden it's like the fourth or fifth thing, you're like, okay, wait a minute, wait a minute. This isn't. This isn't normal.
- [26:46]
Ed Mabry
This isn't.
- [26:47]
Matt
There's too many things, like adding. Stacking up.
- [26:49]
Top Lobster
Now, it happened to you yesterday, I think you were telling me, and you were like, wait a second. Like, we're not.
- [26:53]
Matt
Right.
- [26:54]
Top Lobster
We're so dumb. Like, it takes. It does take, like four or five things. So it's.
- [26:57]
Matt
Well, you don't want to be the type of guy who, like, slams her finger in the door and thinks that there's a. Some Slam your finger in the door. Dem,
- [27:07]
Ed Mabry
please.
- [27:07]
Matt
But you want to be, you know, aware of when it's like, okay, too many things are stacking up now. Yeah, something's up. Something's up. This isn't normal.
- [27:14]
Top Lobster
Yeah, I try. Go ahead, go ahead.
- [27:17]
Ed Mabry
Okay. Well, one of the things we teach in the spiritual warfare class are your specific triggers. Like I said earlier, you have a familiar spirit that knows you. Knows your strongholds, and you're going to find that you're always going to be tempted or fallen in usually three areas. At least three areas, because it knows, just like when Jesus was tempted in three areas. You know, turn the. The. The stones into. Into bread, you know, which was, you know, satisfy your Your flesh or religious pride or taking a compromise. You know, don't, don't worry about going to the cross. Just worship me and I'll give you the nations. You don't have to go through all this stuff. We have our areas that, that we always fall in. So once you, once you learn what those areas are and how to deal with those triggers, then you're going to know specifically that this is spiritual because it's coming at me in one of the places that I always fall. It comes at me in one of my triggers. And we teach you how to get rid of those triggers and well, not. You'll never get rid of how to manage them. So that you know, so the more you know that you can see quickly, oh, I'm under spiritual attack. Oh, and second thing real quick, I didn't mention I'm recording an episode with Sam next week. So just. Yeah, I just got confirmed yesterday. Mark emailed me and said hey, yeah, can you do next week? So I don't know when it'll air, but I think we're recording it next week.
- [28:27]
Top Lobster
What do you, what do you think you're going to cover? What's the topic?
- [28:29]
Ed Mabry
Spiritual warfare.
- [28:31]
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- [28:54]
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- [29:01]
Matt
Right.
- [29:02]
Ed Mabry
Talk about my course and because I know that's something that, that's kind of big with Sam. And so yeah, I pitched it and like the next day he was like, yeah, come on.
- [29:11]
Top Lobster
So, dude, so yeah, by the time our episode airs, yours will probably be either the, the one right after it or maybe. So yeah, tinfoil hat listeners, you gotta get blapped up with some spiritual.
- [29:25]
Matt
Something's happening though, dude. Something's happening. Like an awakening with whatever you call, I don't know what you call your space. I just call it the conspiracy theory podcast space. But within that area of like people seeking out truth and like real ones, like the stuff that happens in our patreon is crazy, dude. It's crazy what's happening in the chat, dude. Like there's an awakening and people are coming to Christ. And people who, like, didn't see stuff before are being, like, woken up and something's happening.
- [29:49]
Top Lobster
Well, not just.
- [29:50]
Matt
That's going on. Tinfoil hat. Like, that's a big deal, dude.
- [29:52]
Top Lobster
Well, that's. This is where we found it. But, like, you're going back in such a close proximity to us, like, going back on, and we. We happen to just get invited on randomly. Like, it wasn't scheduled. It was because, like, we won this thing and then we're on and. And then you're on. But, yeah, it seems like people are picking sides, like I said, like, what do you mean? There are people in the conspiracy realm, and we've seen a bunch of them so far. Either they're. They've picked Christ and they say it out loud, and then people have picked the other side.
- [30:23]
Matt
Yeah.
- [30:24]
Top Lobster
And as a matter of fact, to say, like, yeah, not Christ out loud.
- [30:27]
Matt
Not yet.
- [30:28]
Bluff
No.
- [30:29]
Top Lobster
No. Some of these people have said yes, not Christ. I know some of them.
- [30:33]
Bluff
And.
- [30:34]
Top Lobster
But it's like, it's very clear. There is no delineation. There's no, like, gray areas of what's happening here, hot or cold.
- [30:41]
Ed Mabry
And we're getting to that moment, the lukewarm. And. And, yeah, to piggyback what you were just saying, Tom. You too, Matt. That there's something happening. Because normally when I sent again, that pitch out to samples, I'm saying a few pitches out because I want to start, you know, promoting the course more now that we've got into a groove and we're really. John and I are really happy with the way things are going, and we feel more comfortable bringing more people into it. But, you know, I sent the pitch out and, you know, normally I would expect him to say, hey, you know, if he says yes, you know, I mean, three months from now, you'll be on the show. But for him to say next week, I think that, you know, this is. I think this is God working, saying, we need this out now because there's. There's some kind of zeitgeist happening.
- [31:19]
Top Lobster
Out of curiosity, when did. When did you hit him up?
- [31:23]
Ed Mabry
Like, Wednesday, I think, dude.
- [31:27]
Top Lobster
Okay. Yeah, that's when we were on. So you probably messaged him right after he finished talking to us about just that, maybe. And you're like, that's crazy. That's crazy. And it sounds like that's a conspiracy. Right? Like, me and Ed conspired. Like, I'm gonna. We're gonna go and hit this. I had. We had. No. To be honest with that. With that episode, you know, how they. He's like, oh, email us talking points. You know, is it, like a organized show than NDS and it was the day of. And Mark is calling us. He's like, dude, you have to email us. And me and Dave are like, we don't. Because we do a lot of interviews and we talk about a lot of things. So, like, we're not necessarily specializing in one subject, and we just go, yeah, let's hit some current events. And then we go, hey, could we tell our story? And our story just happens to deal with the basically spiritual warfare on. On both sides. And they said, yeah, okay. So it was. That was completely organic. And it's not usual for Tim Foh. Ed knows you go on tinfoil hat. You. You're bringing a subject, you're hitting that, and you're trying to, like, bring that home. Whatever.
- [32:32]
Ed Mabry
Yeah, Because Sam gets on a stream of consciousness, which is all good. I mean, it's his show. He always has good questions, but he'll start with, like, something that's on his mind that he's been thinking about that's related to what you're talking about. And then, you know, you kind of kind of circle back to, you know, to what to the point you want to talk about as well.
- [32:48]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah. So.
- [32:49]
Matt
So it really is a war like we're talking about, man. It's a kingdom. Like, it's. There's a kingdom. Satan's got a kingdom. God has a kingdom. There's a war going on. And sometimes things are stacking up for the. And sometimes things are stacking up for the good. Like, what we're. What you guys are spelling out right now is, like, things that are just stacking up for the good that happen to be, like, coincidental timing. Well, it's stacking up for the good.
- [33:09]
Top Lobster
There's good, but, like, yeah, like, the forces of bad are. They're. They're making a strong play to get their dudes, and their dudes are there. You know, one of the people that Matt. I guess we'll just put it out there. Matt's been working on, like, Close to his heart is like, Thomas from Paranoid American. Have you spoke with him before?
- [33:26]
Ed Mabry
You know, I. I did a pitch to him, and he never got back to me. I'm like, you know, no, it's fine. You know, it's.
- [33:31]
Top Lobster
Whatever.
- [33:31]
Ed Mabry
It's your show. But so, yeah, I. Because Heidi, like, introduced us, and I gave him a pitch, and I just, you know, just never got back to me.
- [33:39]
Top Lobster
Okay, we'll get you on his show.
- [33:40]
Matt
He probably missed it. He probably missed the email.
- [33:42]
Ed Mabry
Yeah, yeah, no, it's. No, no, no. Shade. No, whatever. It's not. But. Yeah, but I do know who he is, to answer your question.
- [33:48]
Top Lobster
Yeah, but it's like, Matt's like, this dude's. This dude's powerful. Like, you get this guy, you know, on our side, for lack of better terms, like, that's a big deal. And. Do you want to tell. Do you want to tell them what happened?
- [34:01]
Matt
No, I don't even know what you're talking about. Like, the whole conversation with them, like, from the beginning.
- [34:05]
Top Lobster
I don't even know during the episode. What happened during that episode.
- [34:09]
Matt
No, I don't know. It just was wild. It was just the guys, like, on it. Well, we had a whole episode before we started filming.
- [34:14]
Top Lobster
Yeah, we were sitting here and we. We filmed them in the big room, but we're sitting here and they're. They're, like, going back and forth, and Thomas is asking him hard questions about the Bible. And Matt's just like, well, right here is what it says. And I could tell him, like, oh, Thomas is impressed, but he's coming from, like, an occult background, like, leaning that way. And I'm watching him, like, there's a battle happen. Like, there's a short sword battle happening right here. And. But it was. It was.
- [34:39]
Matt
Here's where he's turning the corner, though. And, Ed, I would love for you to jump in on. On this with him, too, man. I gave him the Dave Hunt book. A woman rides the beat, dude. So I think what was happening, like, his whole context for the Bible was in light of, like, Catholicism. And now. And then he's reading that, and he's like, okay, wait, wait. So wait, there's this whole other light that this is supposed to be viewed in. It's the Bible, and Catholicism is something totally different. And so he's been. He's been like, hammering me, telling me about stuff that he's reading in that book, and then he's looking up the sources that Dave Hunt was sourcing. He's going and looking that stuff up. And so he's just on the path, dude. He just seems like a dude, right?
- [35:17]
Top Lobster
But he's gonna come around when there's a dude on the path and you have another dude who's like, yeah, yeah, this is the way. Come on. As. As you do in the interview. You told me afterward, you're like, dude, I thought I was gonna pass out or so, like, what happened?
- [35:28]
Matt
No, it was just, like, heavy. It was just, like, heavy. You don't like it.
- [35:31]
Top Lobster
And that's. Matt's like, super healthy dude. This guy's always walking. He's looking directly at the sun. All this stuff, like, gotta do all that. You don't sign your butthole, right?
- [35:37]
Matt
No, no.
- [35:38]
Top Lobster
Okay.
- [35:39]
Matt
But I'm not knocking anybody who does. I guess that's popular now. So it's whatever, healthy, it's do your thing.
- [35:46]
Ed Mabry
But I thought doing red light therapy was like me taking a big step forward, but I'm not, you know, but having. Having sunshine on a sphincter, that's. That's a new. That's a new one.
- [35:53]
Matt
Oh, red light is the thing, dude. Red light's very healthy. But no, I just got.
- [35:56]
Ed Mabry
Like I said, well, I'm just. I'm just getting old and I just need to be healing more. So I just, I. I invested in one of those.
- [36:03]
Top Lobster
Nice, nice.
- [36:03]
Bluff
Yeah.
- [36:04]
Matt
No, it's just clear that there's spirit forces, like fighting. Like that stuff's going on around you in those conversations. No, it just got weird. I don't remember the details, but it was just heavy. There was just a heavy presence room, man.
- [36:16]
Ed Mabry
And there's heaviness in that, that I've been experiencing. Like the spiritual warfare against me has ramped up. I mean, when we. When I started forming this course earlier, well, late last year, the attacks got greater and I just dedicated myself in the last couple weeks, it's so interesting. John and I were talking and I was saying, you know what? I want to do this full time.
- [36:34]
Bluff
I don't.
- [36:34]
Ed Mabry
I want this to be my main job. And so I've been, you know, dedicating more time to it and putting out more content and just looking at a lot of ways to get this material and the message out there. And the more I do that, the heavier things have gotten. Like in my personal life, like, my mother's been under attack for certain reasons. Some bad things been happening on her side and, you know, my wife's been experiencing some things. It's just been ramping up. Seriously, I have had no luck lately.
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Ed Mabry
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- [37:29]
Ed Mabry
And because. Because I think the. The enemy Knows we don't want. I'm. This isn't about bragging about me. It's about all glory goes to God. So I don't want this message from getting out. So I'm gonna try to basically, you know, pound me into the sand and. But that tells me, no, you don't want this out, that I want it out even more. Because the last arrogant. The last quarter, the last three months of the spiritual warfare class is about being generative and teaching other people what you've been taught. Like, the first quarter is defense. Second quarter, which we're on now, is going on offense. Third quarter, special situations, like, you know, when you're dealing with serious attack, you know, really powerful entities dealing with addictions and stuff like that. Then the third is teaching everyone how to teach other people, is building an army. Take everything we've taught you, and here is how you build a community and introduce this into your community. Because we have people from all over the world. We have people from Australia and Canada who are part of the class right now. And we're like, look, I'm never going to. You know, I don't. I'd love to go to Australia at some point, but it's not in my. In my current purview. This is your area. You can build an army where you are in your community, which I'm never going to go to. And then they can build and so forth, and so someone. And we build an army. And I know the enemy doesn't want that.
- [38:39]
Top Lobster
Yeah, it's like, that's. This is part of the story I was telling on Tinfoil Hat. And you guys could listen to the whole thing, but there was a very critical moment. I probably had told you at some point, Ed, where when I first moved to Florida, had no intention of doing this show or even being on the path that I'm on now. And every single thing in my life was like, turn back. Like, whether it be money, sickness, you name it. Everything's like, you can go back. You can go right back. Go to the job. You can go get another house. Go back. Just go back. Don't do this. And I was this close to doing it and quitting. And I was like, that's the. You know, the motto of this show is kind of. Well, my motto is too stop. Because all signs. Yeah, all signs say stop. Like, like, you're at a point where you're being attacked and you're like, it would just. I know if I stopped right now, it would be. It would alleviate the pressure of, like, that boot on my neck, but I'm just too dumb to stop.
- [39:33]
Matt
So you said that's when you're closest to breakthrough though, Ed. It's like a lot of times like, like it just comes the craziest right before something's about, something good is about to happen.
- [39:42]
Ed Mabry
Right. I think understand this because this is going to get to, I'm sure we'll get to some of the stuff we talk about about hell and things like that. It's about having the, the, you know, the wrong premise and knowing what God knows and what he doesn't know. God doesn't know how faithful you're going to be because we're entry is a free choice. So a lot of the things are God saying, okay, I know you said you're down for me, you're going to do what I ask you to do, and you're all high holy Christian, but are you going to do it when going gets rough? Are you going to hang in there when things don't look good? Or are you only going to obey me and do my work when I'm blessing you? And so I think that's one of the reasons why it gets so bad right before it gets good. Because God wants to know how far can, how, how bad can things get before you reject me? You know, it goes back to Job, you know, when the Hasatan, which by the way, is not the same as the serpent from the Garden of Eden and the Kash. That serpent from the Hasatan in Job was actually a, believe it or not, a good angel. And we can talk about that because it's another misconception people have. He was part of the contingent. Says there came a time when the sons of God came to present themselves before the, before God and the, the Hasatan comes with them. He was part of that contingent. He had a job to do. His job was to test people to see if they would obey Jehovah under adversity. And, and God says to him, what about Job? So if, if the Hasatan in Job is actually the bad guy, then that makes God the villain. Because God said, do this to Job. And, and the house of town said, okay, well if I take away all his stuff, he won't, he, he won't serve you. And God said, go ahead and do it. So then who's responsible for what happened to Job? God is. So if the, if the Hasatan is a bad guy, then that makes God the villain of the book of Job. But in any case, my point is that Job worshiped Him and Job was great. And God, God bragged about Job, but Job had a lot of stuff. Job was the richest guy in his area. And the hasatan said that if I take away all this stuff, if I test him that way, not gonna happen. He's gonna reject you. And God said, give it a try. Because God didn't know. But Job acquitted himself very well. He'd never cursed God. And God came to him in. In the. And the moral of the story of the book of Job is that Job never asked God, why do you think were happening to him? He asked everyone else, he asked his friends and all that, but God said, I know everything. Why, why don't you come to me? And Job's response at the end was, from now on, I will ask you and I will expect an answer. So what God did was he improved his relationship with Job through that. So again, I'm preaching on Job, but the whole point is that God is going to test you to see, are you going to walk with me when things get rough or are you going to turn back? Are you going to turn back? Can I trust you? Is what he's going to be asking you always, can I trust you? And it's helped us answer that question.
- [42:36]
Matt
It's like Job got accused of the prosperity gospel. You know, he's like, he's only stirring you for the benefits he gets, man.
- [42:44]
Ed Mabry
Right. And that's why a lot of these people who do the prosperity stuff, I'm sorry there's a.
- [42:50]
Top Lobster
You can't see it, but there are rules written on the door over here that said our friends are not your friends.
- [42:55]
Spin Quest Announcer
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- [42:57]
Top Lobster
But I think you guys are friends now. So we're tight. Yeah. Sorry, Dave.
- [43:01]
Matt
Yeah, so. Yeah, so.
- [43:02]
Ed Mabry
So God. God has him if he can trust you. And he. He will find a way every day to ask you, will you trust me? And it's. It's tough because sometimes, you know, I'm like, I don't want to trust you in this. This is too rough. And he'll know how far he can go. And not everyone's going to go the same length. You know, you talk about Abraham, we. Because someone brought up. Because we do our live coaching. If you're at the higher tier of our spiritual warfare class, you get, you know, you get live coaching with myself and John for, you know, a couple hours every month. And we. They brought up Abraham and the sacrificing Isaac and. And one of them asked him, am I going to be asked to do that? Because that seems so cruel to me. That, that God would ask Abraham to sacrifice his son. Well, because God knew Abraham's heart. God's only going to ask you to do something that you already have faith for. He would not ask me to sacrifice my son because I don't have Abraham's faith yet. I'm building towards it. But by the time God asked Abraham to do that, Abraham, we find this later in the book of Hebrews. Abraham knew that God would have to resurrect Isaac. So basically Abraham was like, hey, if you want me to kill him, fine, but that's your problem because you told me that you're going to raise up a great nation through my son Isaac. So if I kill Isaac, you're gonna have to resurrect him. That was Abraham's mindset. He had that much faith. So asking him to do that was not as great an act of faith as asking you or me to sacrifice our children. I'm not at that level, so. But God will ask me to make, to, to trust him to a degree that I, that he's already built up my faith for. He's built. He built up Abraham's face to the point where Abraham thought, figured that he would resurrect Isaac. He said, Isaac's not a problem. And you know, I'll, I'll stab him. I'll put him a knife in his heart. You gotta, you gotta raise him back up again. That was Abraham's level of faith. So it wasn't cruel. It was, it was the same as if, you know, I have faith in believing that, you know, God's going to keep prospering me in my ministry and he'll test me in that. But it's not a cruel test because he knows that I have that level of faith. But he wants to push me to see how far can I push you? How much do you trust me? But it's individual. It's not. So he's not going to ask every. A random Christian who just became, came to Christ like a week ago to make that level sacrifice because their faith hasn't been built to that level yet.
- [45:14]
Top Lobster
That's. It's such a crazy concept to like wrap, wrap your head around around like what God knows, what, what he doesn't know, I don't know. What. What's your take on that?
- [45:28]
Matt
Like, that what God knows? Yeah, well, correct me if I'm wrong, Ed, but he knows everything, right?
- [45:35]
Top Lobster
Well, he's Ed.
- [45:36]
Matt
He's all knowing.
- [45:37]
Top Lobster
Ed doesn't think so.
- [45:39]
Ed Mabry
What all knowing means is that God has all information that Exists. He know every, every piece of information that exists. God has it. What God doesn't have is information that doesn't exist. The choice I'm going to make tomorrow doesn't exist yet because I haven't made it. So God doesn't know. Now, God, he knows our causes, he knows our tendencies, but he doesn't know if he did know everything that happened. Because this is a huge thing that, you know, I grew up believing. So I'm not getting on a high horse saying that I'm, you know, I, I have this superior doctrine because I'm just so much better. No, this was something fairly recent, within the last few years that I had to be brought to understanding that God does not know what, what individuals of free will are going to do before they do it. Because if he, if he did, we wouldn't have free will. If God, if, if our existence is a movie that God already saw, then we can't make sure. Not only can we not make choices because they've already been made, but God can't interact with us. How can you interact with someone who's, who's in a movie you've already watched? He, God doesn't know what we're going to do before we do it. Now, in the counter to that as well. If that's the case, then how can God give out prophecy? What about the Book of Revelation? God can predict what he's going to do. And the Book of Revelation is full of things that God's going to do. So he's in full control. He can say, I'm going to pour out my bowls of wrath. He can say, I'm going to have these, these trumpet judgments. Or he can do that because he's in control. So God can accurately predict with 100% specificity what he's going to do because he's in control of that. He can also, he can also prophesy what individuals with entities without a free will are going to do. That's in entities that have been judged no longer have a free will. The entity we call Satan doesn't have free will anymore. He's been judged. That's why God can, can say, here's what he's going to do, because he's already spoken it in the Book of Daniel. When you get to the, those, the four beasts that Daniel saw in chapter seven, that was the. Daniel was, Daniel was viewing the plan of the fallen Elohim in advance that they were going to bring about their, their final kingdom through four kingdoms, through Babylon, then Medo, Persia, Then Greece and then the indescribable beast which turns out to be Rome. And then from who still rules the world today through they just. People say the Roman Empire fell. It didn't fall. It just went from being a, a dictatorship to a theocracy that we call Roman Catholicism and who still have tacit control through their bankers. That's a whole other thing. But they're still in control today. And through that final empire is where he's going to bring in the Antichrist, the little horn full of eyes that's going to, that's basically going to be their false Christ. And so that's why in Daniel God can say, okay, got it. That's what you're going to do. Now here's my counter move. I'm going to bring a son of man riding on the clouds and he will inherit the nations and he is going to defeat you. So basically we have the whole story of the end times. Everything that's going to happen in the book of Daniel, the rest of the Bible is just that all playing out the, the actual, the specific ways that you know that he's going to bring about his kingdom. So that's how God could, could rightly and justly judge and tell the future there. Because the fallen Elohim already spoke it and it's going to come to pass. And so God can basically react to that.
- [48:54]
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Ed Mabry
But he doesn't know what we are going to do specifically. He can know our tendencies. So he can say that all the world will worship the Antichrist. Why? Because when he says all the world, he's speaking most people because he knows our tendencies. We have an unbroken record of choosing someone other than him. But not everyone will because there will be saints during the tribulation. There will be people who are, who are saved. So not everyone, but most people. The world will follow the Antichrist, but some people won't. So again, here's what I, I like to say when people really doubt this. If God knows what everyone's going to do before he does it then John 3:16 is meaningless. It says, for God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes will not perish but have eternal life. Whosoever means. I don't know who's going to. Maybe five people, maybe a million, maybe a billion, I don't know. But whosoever otherwise he would say, I've given my son so that 3 billion 1497 people will be saved.
- [50:23]
Top Lobster
He doesn't know that Jehovah's Witness sort of idea. Right?
- [50:28]
Ed Mabry
Right. If, if, if, if God knows what we're going to do before we do it, then there's no choice. If there's no choice, then we can't love, because love is a choice. You cannot love someone if by compulsion God doesn't get what he wants. If we can, if we don't have a free will, but he gives us a choice, He. It would, it would make no sense. And that's what your, your previous guest talked about. And I think it was unfortunately a false premise that led to a lot of his false, his, his incorrect conclusions was that because God knows everything you know, he knows Satan could not have been a fallen angel because God would have never created an angel that he knew was going to fall. And he's right. God would not have created an angel who he knew was going to fall. He didn't know he gave Adam and Eve a choice. Don't eat from the tree of the garden of Good and Eve. Excuse me? Don't eat from the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil. If they had no real choice, then God putting that tree there would be cruel because God said if God. That would be God saying, I know you guys gonna screw up and you're gonna die, but I'm gonna hear you're gonna do it anyway.
- [51:29]
Top Lobster
Yeah, that's unjust. So the episode you're talking about is the primordial origin of Satan with Jed and. Yeah, so you had some, you had some countering ideas to this. So can you just start from the, from the beginning. His, that premise is, is the, the focal point of where you think he's getting this wrong and then you're extrapolating from there it all goes downhill.
- [51:51]
Ed Mabry
Yeah, from what I understand, I don't, don't want to put words in his mouth, but from listening to the episode, from what I understand, his premise was that God knows what everyone's going to do before they do it. And because in. By believing that, he had to take. He believes that premise is correct. And by Believing it's correct, that's going to affect the entire, his entire view of the Bible. And so that's why he doesn't believe that the, say, the nakash, the fault, the, you know, the first, the initial rebels, whatever you want to call him, cannot have been a angel created by God because if God knew he was going to fall, then it would have been unjust for God to create an entity that he knew was going to do all these terrible things, therefore he has to be something else. He had. I don't know if he. I think he said he may have come out of the primordial darkness of, you know, in, in Genesis chapter one. And, and so, and so that has a build on other things. And the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is something different than what it actually is. And, and I think he said that Adam and Eve were empowering Satan and that we empowered him and that. So by the time we get to the Book of Job, he was supposed to be crawling on his belly. But by the time you get to the Book of Job, he's standing there. So that means that he's been. Been made more powerful through what we've done. So all of these things stem from that incorrect assumption, that false premise that God knows what everyone's going to do before they do it. And if that premise was correct, then he'd have a point. Then it wouldn't make any sense for God to have created a being he knew was going to fall. It would not make sense for, you know, the Adam and Eve to hell wouldn't make sense. It would be cruel of God to. If he knew that who was going to hell and not do anything about it. It would be like if I knew that there was a guy down the street who was going to assault a little girl next week, if I knew that for a fact and I did nothing about it, what would that say about me? So it was almost like saying, well, God knows that most people are going to hell and he's, okay, fine, sucks for you guys. You guys are going to spend eternity as a charcoal brickhead. So then he has to change. Well, that's. That does not sound like the character of God. Therefore there must be a mechanism by which everyone is saved. And so then he says, okay, well then the Bible says all will come to salvation. So that must be what, that we must eventually all be saved. Because God would not knowingly do that. God is not that cruel. And again, if his premise was correct, he'd have a point. But that premise is not Correct. Because. And then when you look at. Because then the issue is when you have a false premise and it leads you to your. To doctrine being incorrect, it eventually leads God to being something he's not. Because think about this. If you are, if you are going to be saved and spend eternity with God no matter what, then if you're going to be the bride of Christ, whether you like it or not, that makes Jesus a rapist. Jesus is. You say, hey, you're going to. Sorry, you're going to marry Jesus whether you like it or not. Even if you choose to reject Jesus, there are people I've known, some very rabid atheists who hate God. They say, I don't want. Even if your God is real, I don't want anything to do with him. I don't like him for X number X reason. So God would have to violate their sovereignty and say, I don't care that you reject me. You're going to be a part of my kingdom whether you like it or not.
- [55:07]
Top Lobster
So what do you, what do you make of the idea of the scripture we were reading previously where it's like, well, like I, I agree with that idea that. Not that I agree with the idea that you're going to be a part of my kingdom whether you like it or not, but you are going to proclaim that Christ is Lord whether you like it.
- [55:24]
Matt
Oh, every knee will bow and everything will come. Yeah, I don't think that's willingly, though.
- [55:28]
Ed Mabry
Oh, no, it's not. Jesus said, you know, I'm sorry, I gotta remember. He says, so what if you claim now that Jesus, that Jesus is Lord? The demons know this and they tremble. You know, the, the demons knew who Jesus was before his own disciples did. Remember when Jesus was casting out the, the demoniac, I think he's in Capernaum somewhere. And he said, what are we to do with you? Oh, Jesus, Son of the Most High. They knew who he was. They proclaimed. It doesn't mean they, they couldn't be saved. They were doomed. They knew this. But just knowing you come to torment
- [56:02]
Matt
us before the time we just read it today.
- [56:04]
Ed Mabry
Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, you're going to bow down forcibly because you're going to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord. But it's a little too late for that. You've already rejected him because you're not gonna. Anyone who spends eternity separated from God is not. They're not gonna be like, hey, where am I? What happened? They're gonna know, oh, I rejected God. And that is the true torment of hell is not because you're going to be on fire. You're not going to have flesh in hell. Every, every person, entity who's in hell is spirit. And we have this idea. It would be cruel for someone to be set on fire for eternity. Yeah, it would be. But you're not going to be flesh and blood. We can't superimpose our idea of our physical pain. I mean, I've been burned before, you know, I like to cook and was one time I had a pan in the oven, you know, I was finishing off a steak in the oven. I took it out with potholders and then I kind of forgot about that. And I grabbed it again like holy crap. And I got a second degree burn. It hurt. And now I just held it for a second for eternity. I could not imagine that. But we're not going to be in our flesh and blood bodies. Not we, but people who are going to be there will not be in flesh and blood bodies. They're going to be spiritual. They will be tormented. And I believe that torment is not, oh, I'm so hot. I think the torment is I'm spending eternity separated from God. I'm spending eternity not being what I was intended to be. We said that today of knowing that. And that is just because they chose it. Everyone who is going to be in hell is there for one reason. They rejected the invitation to heaven. God does not send anyone to hell. God invites everyone to heaven. And it is your decision whether you're going to accept that invitation or not. And if you don't accept it, what can God justly do force you now? So here's the, here's the thing. If he's right, then there's no loss for me and you guys. So we'll be, I guess, you know, one day we'll be in the New Jerusalem partying with Hitler. We'll be there and hey, Adolf, you know, you're right. Those you sucked. I mean that's, I mean that's. But if, but if he's wrong, here's the danger. If he's wrong and someone believes that, that I'm going to be saved no matter what. That's the problem.
- [58:07]
Matt
Wait, what is. Well, so what is the passage then that we're saying that there was a passage brought up that said that everybody's going to be saved.
- [58:13]
Ed Mabry
There are several passages brought up that you know, that says, you know, all will come to the knowledge of Christ. All will be saved. But salvation is for all. And it is, everyone can be saved. But that doesn't mean you. But there's, there's still a choice involved. Jesus died for everyone. There is no person Jesus didn't die for. There is no sin Jesus did not die for. So salvation is available to everyone. Jesus died for the whole world, but that doesn't mean all the world is going to accept it.
- [58:44]
Matt
Yeah. So you're kind of refuting Calvinism, if you will, to say that at the beginning of time, like that's not, that's not what the Bible is talking about. It's. No, it's, it's for everyone. But everyone won't choose it.
- [58:56]
Ed Mabry
Exactly.
- [58:57]
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- [59:27]
Ed Mabry
That's because that's part of, that's part of Calvinism. That's, you know, that's part of the two of the unconditional election. Irresistible grace. So unconditional election mean that God just chose you before time. Okay, you're going to heaven, you're going to hell. Nothing you can do about it. So then what's the point of evangelism? And then irresistible grace means that no matter if God chose you, if he said that, you know, Matt, you're going to heaven and you're like, I don't wanna. Irresistible grace. Eventually it's like a holy tractor beam. To use like a Star Trek analogy, he's just gonna, he's just gonna draw you in. It's irresistible. Which again, both of those things violates human sovereignty. They violate free will and it makes God's will of none effect because you can't choose him.
- [60:02]
Top Lobster
Well, I'll push back on that. Like I, I said that. I said that myself. I said absolutely. Go ahead, Mason, walk right in front of the camera. It's fine.
- [60:12]
Matt
Bump it.
- [60:13]
Top Lobster
It's cool. I said absolutely not. Like I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to choose. And, and yeah, I don't know, kind of like a holy tractor beam.
- [60:22]
Matt
Well, there is. I mean that's why Calvinism is attractive to some people. Because, because there is an element of that.
- [60:26]
Top Lobster
I'm not Calvinistic.
- [60:28]
Matt
But there is an element where I'm like, wow, God drew me to him.
- [60:31]
Ed Mabry
Not just, oh no, I'm not saying that God won't draw you to him. It's not. Grace is the, the definition of grace is, is the, the Greek word chorus, which means the divine influence on the heart and this reflection in life. It's not unmerited favor. That's another. That's completely incorrect. You can just look at the Greek in any interlinear Bible. So yes, the Holy Spirit is always drawing you towards him, but it's. You can still say no. I mean top. Yes, you were drawn. I was drawn to him. So it, but it wasn't irresistible grace. It was just grace. Grace.
- [61:03]
Top Lobster
What I mean to you, I, I did say no. I said no. And I said no, never.
- [61:10]
Ed Mabry
No.
- [61:11]
Top Lobster
But I'm still here doing. If you saw me 15 years ago, I'm doing the same thing that I was doing 15 years ago, but at like a much, much higher level. When I said no never.
- [61:24]
Ed Mabry
It's.
- [61:24]
Top Lobster
It's crazy. And I, again, I chose it. But I was also like, there's not, it's not beyond me that there was like a crazy poll. And I don't know, I probably could have said no again and been very stubborn and just like went and did something else. But like there was. It almost feels in a way where it's like, yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna do this. Like you're gonna do that thing, whatever I'm doing now. And I, I don't know. But again, that doesn't mean, that doesn't mean that I have no free will. And I'm just saying, like there is that aspect of it. Like that happened to me. Like, yeah, I was, I was dragged back into this, even though I didn't want to.
- [62:02]
Matt
But I think that, that, that I don't know at what level that happens to everyone. And then it becomes like what it does. What is our response to that? Yeah, but maybe, you know, I don't know. Do you. Is there an argument then he's not going to waste his time.
- [62:14]
Top Lobster
Maybe I'm lucky. I told miracles.
- [62:16]
Ed Mabry
It could have mean that he, he knew your heart and he knew that you, that he wanted you to be saved. His. It's his desire. That's another thing I think that Jeff brought up. You know that he says that God desires that all be saved. Then it. And then he brought a passage from Isaiah where he says God gets what he desires. Well, that you're talking about 700 years of difference between what Isaiah wrote and what Paul wrote. They're completely different contexts. So making those seem the same way. God. God will get what he desires. And excuse me, what Isaac said was, Was in a complete different context than what Paul was saying. Paul was saying that God wants. Yes, God wants you all us all to be saved. And if he sees an opening, yeah, he's going to pull you saying, you know what? I believe the top. If I, if I make, if I pull him a little harder, he's gonna come to me. And that's what's going. But you still had a choice. You still could have said no.
- [63:06]
Matt
Yeah, I remember the first.
- [63:08]
Ed Mabry
So basically, what irresistible grace means that you don't have a choice.
- [63:12]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah, I had a choice still. But yeah, it was. I'm just saying it was unproportionately strong. Stronger than other people.
- [63:19]
Ed Mabry
I believe.
- [63:19]
Top Lobster
You don't get it. And Merkel told me when I was talking, I was telling a little about this and he was like, he's like, yeah, dude, if God had a plan, he's like somebody else. Like, he would. He'll put someone else to do. And I was like, I I 100 if something's supposed to happen, some this happens without me. And I was just like, I guess I'm just lucky that, that he waited, you know, and said, no, no, you're gonna do this by Mason. But go. Sorry, go ahead. Matt. You were gonna say something.
- [63:44]
Matt
I think I was gonna say, yeah. Like, I, I mean, I didn't, I didn't know at the time that it was like a Calvinist, common thing to bring up. But I remember the first time somebody asked me, could Paul have resisted the call of God? I was like, yeah. Like, what are you. What are you talking about? Like, there's tons, that's tons of stories of people who resist the call of God. Like God's drawing them and they don't respond.
- [64:03]
Top Lobster
But a call that strong, right?
- [64:04]
Matt
Like, no, I just remember thinking that was so crazy. Was like, yeah, the story of Paul could totally be the story of somebody who didn't respond. And I just think sometimes we think like, oh, but that's the way the story went. It couldn't have went any other way. That story totally could have gone another way.
- [64:17]
Top Lobster
When Jesus.
- [64:18]
Ed Mabry
How many other self. Yeah, how do you know how many other people that God wanted before? Maybe somebody he called before Paul who said, no, maybe he wanted more Paul.
- [64:27]
Matt
Yeah, but I think it goes back to your point that like those things that are prophesied in the book of Revelation they tie to God's sovereign will. He's gonna do it. And so like our story is just whatever we are in this story.
- [64:38]
Top Lobster
That point goes hard, man. Like, really think about that. What if there was another Paul that he approached that got blinded and the dude still said no?
- [64:47]
Matt
What if there was another Moses? There's a strong point for that because it was supposed to be 400 years from Abraham to Moses. It ends up being like 430. It's like, what, was there some other dudes in that 30 year time period? And it was God was waiting for a Moses type, even though we know that it was like his mom that hit him. Because the moms Even in Hebrews 11, for the faith, she had to hide him, knowing he was tove, knowing he was good. I mean, I don't know, there's some interesting thing, like, why was that timeline a little bit off? I don't know. But maybe there is these stories of like God's calling people that don't respond.
- [65:16]
Top Lobster
This idea of like person. I tell my, I joke around my wife. I'm like, there's like 12 types of people. Like, some of them are tortas and some of them are this or that or whatever. And like it's, it's sad, but it's true. You could kind of like see people, ask them a couple of questions and then extrapolate from there where their world view is at and then start to predict their next movements. If I can do that.
- [65:36]
Matt
I don't like that.
- [65:37]
Top Lobster
I know, me neither. But it's very true. You can, you can probe a couple of questions to people.
- [65:43]
Matt
Yeah, no, I know.
- [65:44]
Top Lobster
And then you like, you can safely determine what they think about a. Yeah,
- [65:48]
Matt
but they do that in church. I don't like that. They're like, oh, you think that doctrine. Well, that means you think this, this and this.
- [65:53]
Top Lobster
Like, well, I say that not 100, but yeah, it's damn close sometimes.
- [65:58]
Lady Luck
And.
- [65:58]
Matt
And you're gonna say that like, if we can do that, imagine what evil spirits can do.
- [66:02]
Top Lobster
No, imagine God. God knows the patterns. God created patterns. So he can probably say like, yeah, maybe there were two Moses. And he's like, is this the, is this the one? Are you gonna.
- [66:11]
Matt
Yeah.
- [66:12]
Top Lobster
Follow through with? It's gonna be hard. And maybe he doesn't get a. You don't get a book written. You don't write the book. And if you do, it doesn't get passed on. It's like.
- [66:22]
Ed Mabry
So here's another example. Go back to Abraham. He talked about him before with Isaac. But before that, before Isaac was even born, you know, God came down to visit him. It was. It was what they call a theophany. You know, God went into other Elohim. They came. You know, they were walking past, and God wanted to see, okay, is this guy. He already given Abraham the promise. He said, I'm gonna make a great nation out of you, get out of your land and come to a land I'm you. And Abraham eventually did it, and. But God was like, is this guy really gonna. Is he really down for me? And so he. He would. He. And the two angels were walking by, and they didn't say, hey, come make me dinner. Abraham said, yo, come on in. You know, we're gonna make. We'll make some food for you, dwell in our tent. They said, okay. And then you see God. Have you hear God having an internal monologue? Because he was sending his two angels to go to Sodom and Gomorrah to. To handle that business over there. And then God says, you know, what should I share with Abraham what I'm going to do with Sodom and Gomorrah? It was an internal mod block. He said, should I do okay? I'm going to trust him. I'm going to give him a shot. And he tells him. And then Abraham starts negotiating with him for the life of lot, but that God is talking to himself and saying, can I trust this guy? He doesn't know. And of course, Abraham proved himself. Well. And when he was negotiating with him, you know, remember when God was negotiating. When Abraham was negotiating with God, he was saying, you know, would you. Which he spared for if 40 were holy in Sodom? What about. What about 30? What about 20? Or whatever God could say, yeah, sure, it's fine. He was. And God liked that. God never got mad at him, even though Abraham was like, you know, I'll ask you one more time. Don't be angry with me. I was like, I'm not angry with you. Just. You're talking with me. We're negotiating. We're having a good time. You're interacting.
- [68:00]
Top Lobster
That's what I want in that story, too. That's another situation where God knows. He's like, this place is toast.
- [68:08]
Ed Mabry
And.
- [68:09]
Top Lobster
And he's like, yeah, go ahead. Whatever. One, go. Ten, ten good people. And God. God already knows that you ain't gonna find them.
- [68:17]
Matt
Well, that's your tough one, too, because I think Abraham's doing the math on his fingers and he's thinking about Lot and his family and his descendants. He's saying, well, surely lot's whole families right with God. And then they weren't like, like, they're like, there's the kids. Like, like we rag on the wife who looked back, right. Turned into a pillar of salt, but looks like her. She had kids in the town still.
- [68:37]
Ed Mabry
Imagine a mother whose two daughters got out with him.
- [68:41]
Matt
He had some other. Did he not have other kids?
- [68:45]
Ed Mabry
Those are his only children.
- [68:47]
Matt
Okay, yeah, I've heard, I've heard two sides of that. And that he still did have the. They still did have kids in town. And like that's what she's looking back at. And of course, some people say, no, it's just worldly possessions and worldly things that she was looking back.
- [68:58]
Ed Mabry
Let me look that up again. But I'm pretty, I'm pretty certain. But you know, don't, don't quote me.
- [69:01]
Lady Luck
I'll look it up.
- [69:02]
Ed Mabry
But as far as how he only had, he only had the two daughters that he mentioned. But yeah, I can look back and check it out.
- [69:08]
Matt
And sons in laws too.
- [69:10]
Ed Mabry
Well, yeah, his daughters were married, but, but they hadn't consummated the marriage. They were betrothed because the daughters were still virgins. So they, they were betrothed to two men of Sodom.
- [69:21]
Matt
Yeah,
- [69:24]
Ed Mabry
go ahead.
- [69:25]
Matt
I've heard that, but I, but I don't know if I read it that way. I think I read it like that there was more than just those two and that there was other. There's son, there's daughters, and then their husbands and stuff like that. And like, then that makes sense of why, why she's looking back too. I could understand that. And, and why Abraham stopped at the number he stopped at. I don't know. It could be wrong. It's not a,
- [69:45]
Ed Mabry
it's worth looking into I mean, because I'm doing my Genesis series, I'm sure because I'll get to it soon. So I'll, I'll take a look at that.
- [69:52]
Matt
Well, what about also in the context of the like, like, specifically when they come to dust Sodom. Because it, because I've always read this about the. I've, I have thought about the foreknowledge of God. It's interesting we're having this conversation about it because he, because he does say, like in Genesis 18, it's going in like verse 18 and verse 17 says, shall I hide from Abraham the thing which I do because, like I'm going to go in and I'm going to dust Sodom. It says, seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and Mighty nation. And all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him. For I know him that he will command his children in his household after him. And they shall keep the way of the Lord to do justice and judgment that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he had spoken of him. So I don't know. I, I always have looked at that like he, he had like foreknowledge, like he talks about in the letter to Peter about the foreknowledge of God that like he did know. I, I, I'm not, I'm not disagreeing that we don't have free will. Like we do have free will. But I think Chuck Missler explained it that like if you're watching a, if you're watching a parade, you probably know what I'm talking about. And it like me and you were standing on the side of the road watching the parade. We only see what comes cross across in the parade. But a helicopter's up top and it's watching the whole parade the whole time. And he was just making the point that God's like that, like he sees in the foreknowledge of God. He's just watching the whole parade at the same time. He doesn't just get to see the one part in the timeline, like what
- [71:08]
Top Lobster
we would is a car crash. About that right there.
- [71:11]
Matt
So he's already seen it. He's, he's living all of time all at the same time. And that's how he has like foreknowledge and we would still have free will. What do you think about that?
- [71:20]
Ed Mabry
Yeah. So Chuck, one of my mentors, love Chuck. He and I had a, we, we kind of just, we kind of diverged a little bit there. So, but I think he, I think he was on the right track. Here's, here's what we understand. God knows way more than we do. Way more. He knows, he knows our heart. He knows our tendencies. He, he sees in more dimensions than we can see. So yes, he can, he can talk about Abraham in that way because he, he knew Abraham better than Abraham knew himself. But Abraham could still have made a choice. It was probably unlikely that he would, but Abraham had already proven himself in, in so many other ways to God. That God says, I know this guy. I know what he's going to do. Doesn't mean that he could not have done something else. But God could still. And remember that God is writing when God. The book of Genesis was dictated by God to Moses. So God is talking about things already happened in the past because I mean, obviously Moses wasn't, wasn't around during this time. How would he got the information? When he was on, on the mountain, when God was giving him the law, he was also dictating the book of Genesis to him because he had to. Because he had to let the Israelites know he had the book. The purpose of the book of Genesis was to give the Israelites their history and to let them know that I am the one true God. I'm the one who creates the heavens and the earth. Never mind what you heard about the Egyptian gods and whatnot. So God is speaking. When God's talking to Abraham about Abraham, he's talking in the past tense about things that happened, you know, almost a thousand years earlier.
- [72:50]
Matt
Sure.
- [72:51]
Ed Mabry
So he can speak in that sense that, you know, I know Abraham, that he would do this because he already did it. So in that case, God is talking about something that already happened, which he can speak about predictively. Hey everybody.
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- [73:31]
Top Lobster
Do you think that there's something about like these, these really powerful prophets, the ones that are the closest to God within, within the Bible? They're all like kind of strange characters. They all seem like recluses. Their. It's almost like because they are that close to God that they. I don't, I don't want to say.
- [73:53]
Matt
No, not all of them.
- [73:54]
Ed Mabry
They're weird.
- [73:54]
Matt
I always thought that, I always thought that though because like, I think I forget who it was said every Christian should have a Bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other. And I was like, bro, I don't think so, dude. I don't want anything to do with the newspaper. Like, I just want to be a hermit. Like, I just want to be chill and be alone with God. But then I realized when I thought that there was Nehemiah who was like in the mix, there was Daniel who was like in the mix. Like they weren't recluses, they were right in cabinets of like governments and stuff. Like they, they were in there.
- [74:22]
Top Lobster
But then you have like a John the Baptist. Yeah, Elijah and you've got. I'm talking about those guys. It's almost like. And we talk about this too on straight Bible where we're like, you're gonna submit yourself to God? Well, it's like the will of the Father, right? And so then it's like, I'm almost giving up my free will for your will. So, like, there's like this, the will of God. There's this like a switch here. And now these people don't act like people when they're around people. Normal people see them and go, what the is wrong with this guy? You know, because you're, you're, you're something different.
- [74:56]
Matt
Yeah.
- [74:56]
Top Lobster
So it's like maybe that, that aspect, like, if I'm giving up my will, it's your will. No more free will here. Am I then predictable? Is that a bad. I don't know. I don't even know if that would be bad.
- [75:08]
Ed Mabry
You, you, you, you. You still have the free will, but you're, but when you get, when you're giving your will over to him, then he can trust you more and he is going to give you more responsibility. You can still say, okay, I'm done with this and I'm out. You know, because look at Elijah. He. He was running from God quite a few times. Jeremiah is another example of someone who's like, oh, God, this is a lot. You know, I, you know, he had, he had to strengthen him. There are many times where God says, you know, I have to give you. Say again.
- [75:38]
Top Lobster
Even Jesus, like that, that scripture. We ready? Can we pass this from me? Is there another way to do this?
- [75:43]
Ed Mabry
Yeah. He says, yeah, there's any other way we can save these idiots without me having to be separated from me? And by the way, he was not afraid of the pain of the cross. He not even phrased not the right word. That's not what he was dreading. He was dreading being separated from God because God had to forsake him because he became sin. That's what he didn't want. He said the cross was a joy. Paul writes that, you know, for, for the joy that was set within him.
- [76:06]
Top Lobster
He.
- [76:06]
Ed Mabry
He endured the cross because that was the joy of having us his bride. No, what he was dreading was he was, for the first time in his existence, he was going to be separate from the Father. That meant that was way more painful to him than the nails and the. In the crown of thorns and, and being on the cross. But to your point, Fagan, you're ultimately
- [76:26]
Matt
saying that's the hell Experience. Right. And that Jesus experienced that.
- [76:31]
Ed Mabry
This is crazy.
- [76:32]
Top Lobster
This is a crazy topic. This is a heavy, heavy subject.
- [76:36]
Ed Mabry
It is, yeah. But it wasn't the pain that Jesus dreaded. It was separation from the Father.
- [76:43]
Matt
That's wild. Think about that. He became sin.
- [76:46]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [76:46]
Matt
And, and God said. He said, my God, my God, why art thou forsaken me? And then we're hoping everybody would understand the context of the rest of that psalm because it's playing out right in front of him. Like all the stuff in that psalm is playing out, but it's like he's separated from God. And like, ultimately, that's what I was saying today in the show was like, people who say, oh, it's not eternal torture or eternal whatever, it's just separation from God. I'm like, well, then you never knew God. If you don't think that's torture to be eternally separated from God, that. I don't know what to say to that.
- [77:15]
Top Lobster
Yeah, go ahead. If you, if you have something else to add on to that. But I have a. I have another question about Jed's point, which I thought was. I, I liked, I, I like the idea of this. How, how is it possible that us, in our fleshly body, in the 120 years that we're given here to perform a sin so devious that we be punished for eternity? Because again, like, if God is just and all of his. All of his presence that he gives us and all of his punishments are exact, does it just doesn't seem like that matches like I did 120 years of bad stuff here. That is only material things that I could do within arm's reach, in a sense. And then I'm punished for the rest of time, for eternity. And I was like, I thought that that was a little bit of a profound argument because I'm like, does that sound like God? But, like, what do you make of that?
- [78:20]
Ed Mabry
So the eternal punishment is the separation that you chose. He's right in that sense that God's punishment is going to fit the crime, as it were. And if your decision is, I don't want to be with you forever, then God's. Then the punishment, as it were, is, you're not going to be with me forever. And it's not God putting this punishment on you. It is your decision. So understand this. Everyone in hell is not going to be at the same level of torment or suffering, whatever you want to call it. And, and here's why using that word, torment and suffering is, is kind of probably not the best terminology to use. Because we put in our human terms, we think it's going to be painful, it's gonna hurt, it's gonna hurt me. It's. Take it. We take it out of your physical idea. It is not going to be the. We forget about Dante's Inferno and all the stuff you've seen in the mythology about, you know, you being put on a rack and stretched out or being. Having nails thrown at you or fiery charcoal thrown. No, that is not going to be physical. You will be a spirit. You're eternal. The real you is not these flesh suits we're driving around. The real you is your. Your spirit, your consciousness, your soul. That is what's going to be separated from God forever. So getting back to different levels of punishment, you know, if you. There's. There's a lady who lives in my neighborhood, sweetheart. Love her to death. She's an atheist. She doesn't believe in God. And unless. And you know, we've talked and she's just not interested. But she's kind. She's kind to my children. She's a sweet lady, but unless she changes her mind before her death, she's going to spend eternity separated from God because she chose it. However, then, on the other hand, you have horrible people. You have not want to use Hitler all the time. Just people right now who are just in the world, who are just terrible people who are doing bad things to kids, who are destroying our future and our finances, you know, who are in these Bilderberger groups and these different, you know, these elites, they're going to suffer more because they've done worse things. So her punishment is not going to be as severe as the punishment of people who are just horribly evil. But she'll be eternal, though.
- [80:27]
Top Lobster
Like, it will be eternal because.
- [80:29]
Ed Mabry
Because. Because I guess my question would be what else could God do?
- [80:35]
Matt
Yeah, yeah.
- [80:36]
Top Lobster
But it's also like, again, just to. Just to argue back, like, we're here, we're stupid, we're just like meat suits. We don't know.
- [80:44]
Matt
But I think somebody said it and it's. It's logical. God's issue isn't how does he send good people to hell, it's how does he take bad people to heaven? Like, that's like this issue, like, that's the. Is like, we don't. We don't deserve heaven. Like, where he doesn't owe us that. He says, hey, there's nothing like Ed's saying, there's nothing else he can do. He came down and died a bloody, torturous death. And Let people rip his beard out and spit in his face and died this bloody death on the cross, separated from his father to buy us back from the dead. If we refuse that, then like we read, you go with Satan and his angels. That's, that's what it says in that passage in Matthew. But I think also, Ed, you're right because Jesus talked about greater damnation. He. I think the context was like the fakers and religious institutions that make these big prayers and then steal from widows. They'll receive greater damnation. So he says that, right?
- [81:30]
Ed Mabry
So another thing to keep in mind in, in, I think top, the last time I was on, we talked about this like, and I think Jed brought up to another degree is like, you know, why would God bring you into this world and knowing that, knowing that you're going to die or, or why would you have all these people knowing they're going to hell? And the question is, did God bring you into this world? Whose decision was it for you to be born? Did God possess your parents and say, you know what? You're gonna bang tonight because I want this kid to be born. It was your decision and God's fine with that. God said, be fruitful and multiply fill the earth. But who's, but the choice of how many people are in the earth are up to us. We're doing it. God did not decide how many people are going to be born. My children, I have two boys. My wife decided and I decided to have. We said, we only want two kids and we're done. We're not having any more kids. That's our decision. God did not say, you need to have these two boys. We decided and we brought them into the world. And it's our responsibility to teach them, you know, to, to walk correctly in, in, in, in, in, in the ways of God. That's what we have to do. But it's not God's fault that people are, that some people are going to be going to hell. It's not because I give this analogy that actually I talked about in one of our spiritual warfare courses in one of our live sessions because someone was asking about, you know, people who choose to go to, who, who make the choice and why is hell so bad? It has to be because the more stark the decision, the easier it should be. For example, let's say I want to, I want you to. I'm going to give you. I want, I want you to choose to have a scoop of chocolate ice cream. That's my choice. That's my desire. My desire is for Matt to have a scoop of chocolate ice cream. But I want to give him a choice. If I give, if I give you a choice between chocolate and vanilla ice cream, that's a tough choice. Maybe you want vanilla that day. But, but, but I want you to choose chocolate. What would be an easier choice? If I say, matt, do you want a scoop of chocolate ice cream or do you want a bowl full of dog crap? Much easier choice, isn't it? Because it's more stark.
- [83:33]
Matt
I see what you're saying. So you, so you're saying like he gives you this other option of hell so that you choose him, right?
- [83:40]
Ed Mabry
Says, would you like to be with me for eternity, being who you were made to be, walking in glory, having perfect peace, perfect provision, perfect everything, being in joy? Or do you want to suffer forever? What's an easier choice? That or saying, you know, do you want to be with me in my, in my heaven or do you just want annihilation? Which is what the. I guess atheists believe you're just going to go poof when you die, Nothing's going to happen to you. Or do you want to be in, you know, a different type of heaven? The more, the more stark the choice, the easier the choice should be. So it should be an easier choice, but, but unfortunately people still are going to choose the other way.
- [84:17]
Matt
Seems like it gets a little Sketchesaurus rex anytime we start to be like, oh, why would God do this? Well, I, I don't know, but here's what the Bible says. So anytime we start to get in, we're like, well, if I was God, I wouldn't do it. This, like, okay, good thing you're not God. Thank God you're not God.
- [84:31]
Top Lobster
No, I'm not saying I do it any different. I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to understand if that punishment fits. Like you said, like the old lady. I don't know. I've got aunts and uncles who, yeah, like, yeah, we're Christian, but do they have a relationship with God? Are they born again? I don't think so. Do they read it? They don't read a Bible. They don't bother to figure this stuff out. They're fantastic people. They do believe in God. But again, there's levels and, and yeah, the.
- [85:01]
Matt
But Ed's saying if they don't choose to follow God in this life, God says, okay, no problem. Yeah, I'm not going to force you to be with me for all eternity. I gave you 120 years to follow me in this life. If you said, no, that's not my thing. I was busy with the Facebook and TV shows. No problem. That you're not going to want to be with me for all eternity if you don't want to be with me down there.
- [85:19]
Top Lobster
That's a great point too. It's like you do I want to live in somebody's house forever and ever that I don't know, and does that person want me there too? But then there's also that transmutable rule of like, God's just like, I'm so dope that trust me, you're going to want to be close and if you're not, it's not going to be great for you. Like, that's like that just, that's a rule. It's, it's, it's just a hard thing, right?
- [85:45]
Ed Mabry
It is tough. I'm not going to sit here and say this is easy stuff this. We're, we're in deep waters now. And like, like you said, Matt, all I can do is, is, is trust what the Bible says and also trust that God is righteous and just. You know, you get the classic question like, what about, you know, some guy in the jungles of wherever who never heard about God or never saw a Bible or never saw, you know, never went to a church or anything or never had exposure to it. What do you do about that? My answer, I have two answers. My, my first answer is that's a cop out because you don't care about Jungle Joe. You, this is your decision you've made. Every major decision you made in your life, you've made without wondering how it would affect Jungle Joe. You can make this decision about whether or not you're going to accept God based on what's happening in your life. Don't bring in Jungle Joe. He has nothing to do with this. Number two is Jungle Joe is God's problem, not mine. What about the, what about the guy who's never heard of God? Not my problem. God didn't tell me that. That's God's problem. God is just and he is righteous. So he is going to find a way to make sure that that person has an opportunity. How does he do it? Don't know. Not my problem. I'm not God. He can handle it. Now let's talk about you. Hey, everybody.
- [86:56]
Lady Luck
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- [87:20]
Spin Quest Announcer
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- [87:26]
Top Lobster
Yeah, that's like one of the most, I guess, one of the most powerful. And I hate to give Matt cred, I hate this, but I'll say it. One of the most powerful things that, like, I guess Matt preaches on when we're doing the show. Preach, right. Talks on. Is when he's. He's talking about. You're talking about how you decided at some point to just be like, it's on you. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, my life is on you. And if you mess this up, that's your problem.
- [87:57]
Ed Mabry
It's like, it's.
- [87:59]
Top Lobster
It's crazy, but it's putting it. You just put all of your. All the responsibility and your faith right back on God, which is what he's asking you to do.
- [88:08]
Matt
I've never looked back on that decision. I've never, ever looked back on that decision. Yeah, now. And now I have a track record with God. Like. Like. Like Ed's saying he doesn't call just a normal person to sacrifice his son, right? But you grow in this. You grow from faith to faith. And so now I have a track record with God where I'd be an idiot to not believe what he says in His Word. I've already got a track record with him in my life of where I know I can trust him. That. That's how that goes. But, Ed, there's interesting stuff about Jungle Joe, too, man. There's like in the Romans one passage where it says that, like, the whole creation speaks of them and everybody will be without witness, man. Right? Or like John 1:9 says that, like, Jesus Christ is the light that lights every man that comes in the world. Some would say that's conscience. And so, like, we have this conscience that can respond to God. And then the dude, Cornelius, he. You know, when Peter comes in and Cornelius bows to him, Peter doesn't say, yeah, go ahead and worship me, because the Catholic line comes from me anyway, and I'll accept worship. Peter goes, no, no, no, man. You got to get up. We don't get down like that. I'm just a man. But then Peter's shock, he says, God's got everybody on all the nations, man. I had no clue. He's got people that fear him in all the nations, man. Even Though a preacher didn't go there. Yeah, I mean, there's wild stuff, right?
- [89:16]
Ed Mabry
And I actually, I do thank you for that. But I do cover. I cover that on. On faith, by reason, because I give. Because I usually I don't anymore. I just say it's God's problem now, but I haven't. There are five things that Jungle Joe knows. Number one, he knows that there's a creator. Atheism has to be taught. You know, naturally, there's a creator. You do. You know that creator is good. You three, you know that you are not good. You know that goodness comes from that creator. So if you say creator, whoever you are, you are good. I am not good. I want to be good, but I know I can only be good through you. You just prayed the sinner's prayer, and you're saved because you just acknowledge God. You just acknowledge that you need salvation. You've acknowledged that salvation can only come from this. From this creator, and you've asked him to do it for you.
- [90:03]
Top Lobster
That gives new meaning to that. That scripture where.
- [90:06]
Matt
That's heavy, dude.
- [90:07]
Top Lobster
Where Jesus comes back and he's got the. He's got a name that nobody can read written, I think. What is it?
- [90:14]
Ed Mabry
A name that no one knows but himself? Yeah.
- [90:17]
Matt
Wait, so you're saying, like, people in jungles do that what Ed just laid out, not even knowing it's Jesus, but it is Jesus.
- [90:23]
Top Lobster
Yeah.
- [90:24]
Ed Mabry
You don't need to know the name Jesus. I mean, that was his name. His name was. Was Yahushua. You don't need. You know, so you don't need to know the name of Jesus isn't Jesus. His name is what he represents. Your name is who you are. Yehoshua means Jehovah is salvation. That's who he is. He, the creator is salvation. That's the name of Jesus.
- [90:45]
Top Lobster
Right.
- [90:45]
Ed Mabry
So if you say the creator is salvation, I need this. I can't be good without it. Then you've just called upon the name of Jesus without saying, you know, Jesus.
- [90:57]
Matt
It's going hard in the paint. Never let me come on with it. Dude, this is the best man.
- [91:03]
Top Lobster
Well, I mean, David has very strict rules.
- [91:05]
Matt
That's true.
- [91:06]
Ed Mabry
Yeah. Well, you know, we'll talk about some more when I'm down there next month.
- [91:10]
Top Lobster
I'm actually. Yeah, guys, if. Well, it's too late to get your VIP tickets for Brogrove, but that Bible. I'm setting up the Bible study. You, Matt and Laura Baker will be here. I don't know. I probably not even gonna sitting on it. I'M gonna watch and produce from the side, but that's going to be crazy. We'll record it, of course, so people will get it afterward.
- [91:30]
Ed Mabry
But I want to say one more thing about the, about that whole, you know, it's your problem, not mine. That's just personal to me because I, you know, we talked before about resisting God and, and, and, and like, you know, God drawing us to him. I knew in my 20s, my dad told me this. My dad said, my dad's a minister. He told me, we were talking, he said, I think you've been called to be in the ministry. And I was like, no, I don't want to be in the ministry. I'm in my 20s. I want to go out and drink and bang and do my, I want no part of this holy stuff because, you know, I grew up in a church and the minister has to be the man of God. He's got to be this pious and, you know, person people come to with their problems. Like, I'm not that pious. I don't want to hear anybody's problems. I want to go out and go to the club and I want to drink and I want to hang out and I want to chase girls. I don't want this. So I, I ran from it. And I ran for years, years and years. And I think I only stopped running recently because I just, even with faith, not reason, I've been dabbling, you know, just, I'll put up a post here and there, I'll put up a video here and there. But when I, I decided I need to get serious. And my prayer to God was like, look, I want this to be my thing. I want to do nothing else but this.
- [92:46]
Lady Luck
Hey everybody, lady luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long I'm going to be celebrating by playing on spinquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a 30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.
- [93:11]
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- [93:16]
Ed Mabry
If I want it and you want it, and Jesus said, anything you ask in my name, bringing up the name of Jesus, presenting all that you are that glorifies the Father, it will be done. So I'm like, okay, God, this is my prayer. I want this to be my full time thing. I want this to be my source of income. And you want it. I want it. It will glorify you. So now it's on you. If you, if you, if this doesn't happen, then Jesus lied. Now I don't believe Jesus is a liar. So it's all on you now. So we'll see how it happens. When it happens. We can all give glory to God because Jesus said, if you do it in my, in my name, and I will do it so that God gets the glory.
- [93:58]
Matt
Yeah. And that's how I felt. I was actually like in the same boat where I was like, yeah, I don't want to do like the Christian thing and be a dork. Like, I still want to party and do dope and do wild stuff. And then, and then that's ultimately where I got to the space where I was like, all right, God, I'll give you my life. And then when I'm a dork and my life sucks, it'll be your fault. And I felt like instantly before I even got the words out of my mouth, he was like, deal,
- [94:22]
Ed Mabry
stupid.
- [94:22]
Top Lobster
Can't believe you said that.
- [94:23]
Matt
Yeah. I've never ever looked back and thought, like, oh man, that life was so much cooler and better. I've never looked back and thought that.
- [94:32]
Ed Mabry
I'll look back now. Working jobs that I didn't like as opposed to doing what I'm passionate about. I, I, my only regrets I didn't do this earlier, that I didn't pursue my passion earlier and I spent time working for somebody else who I didn't even like working for, doing a job that was just, it was fine, but wasn't passionate about. I would, I would have rather spent all my time doing my passion because that's when you definitely get energy in
- [94:56]
Top Lobster
your life if you don't do the training ground. I think though, like, you, you're doing that for 10 years, so you have this extreme body of work now and you have all your previous experiences and for me that like the 10 years, well, it's kind of crazy. There's a 10 year period about where when I said no and I'm, I'm going through the desert, but I had to go through this because if I, if you were to talk to me 10 years ago and you sat that person down here and I'm doing this, this show would suck, I'd have nothing really to say and I'd have no experience to put it up against. And I think the same thing for you, like, for not just your, like your drug days, but even like your days of like in, in the Coffee shop, doing what you're doing, or like sitting in your room by yourself and delivering a message to the wall in your closet at 4am you can't do straight Bible if you don't do those things.
- [95:48]
Matt
Before, I had a real career too. I didn't always just work in a coffee shop.
- [95:52]
Top Lobster
No, you didn't.
- [95:53]
Ed Mabry
You pour ground water.
- [95:54]
Matt
But no, that's the same for David. Like, David says, not like. And that movie's terrible that you. That you recommended by the.
- [96:01]
Top Lobster
Which one?
- [96:02]
Matt
The show. The David Story. It's like, I like that show.
- [96:04]
Spin Quest Announcer
Terrible.
- [96:05]
Matt
It's. Right.
- [96:06]
Ed Mabry
The cartoon or the live action one?
- [96:08]
Matt
I don't know. At the beginning, it starts out with, like, the lion that took his lamb. And he doesn't even kill the lion, dude. So it's not even biblically accurate, like, right from the jump. But anyway, like, David, when they're presenting great stories.
- [96:20]
Top Lobster
Okay, fine.
- [96:21]
Matt
I mean, I'd let my kids watch it, but I would keep hitting pause and explain to them, hey, guys, this is what the Bible actually says. But so David and that whole thing when. When the Goliath shows up, he says, no, Saul, this is no problem. Dude, I've been. I've been on the job training already. I didn't go to cemetery school, but I killed a lion and a bear. And so, like, this. This giant. Yeah, he's no problem, man. I. You've. I've already been trained for this. So I feel like it's like that for all of us, man. That, like, whatever we're going through in our job or our life or all this other stuff we've had to go through to get to where we're at, it was all. It was always on the job training.
- [96:54]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah. Like building. I'm just not gonna lie. Building out the studio and all the stuff that we have here, all this dumb, like these dumb little things, this is all training that I'm like, I'm. Why am I even accruing this sort of skill? It makes no sense. But it all pertains to what I have to do now. So it's like, all right, whatever.
- [97:18]
Matt
I mean, truth be told, the Raven did a lot of this in here.
- [97:22]
Top Lobster
Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, a good designer. I mean, as far as, like, I don't know, like, I. I think about this all the time. I'm like, why am I obsessed with wires and, like, technology, audio stuff like this? Because it did. This applies to nothing I was doing ever. Yeah, but I, like, I really love that. And I was like, okay, now I'm. I'm in a spot where, like, I need that. And I'm like, well, thank God I was, like, looking at this stuff before. Like, why would I know about DSLR cameras? I'm just up late at night researching it. But, like, I have no intention to even sit in front of a camera five, ten years ago. And it's just like. But it's something like, hey, I learned that you're gonna need that. Like, this is going to be useful later. And I'm like, all right, I guess I'll just. It's. Yeah, it's a strange thing. So I'm grateful for all the dumb that I've done same.
- [98:12]
Ed Mabry
God can. He can make everything work out. All things work together for good. And even though it, like, snow just be doing post here and there and podcasts and videos, but now I've got so much content. I have enough to. To write multiple books and put it on different platforms. And so if I was starting off raw with nothing, I'm like, oh, now I got to make content every single day to know. No, I can just. I can repurpose. I can make content daily, but I can also repurpose other stuff so, you know, different channels, which I wouldn't have been able to do if I. If I hadn't, you know, been dabbling in for.
- [98:41]
Bluff
For.
- [98:41]
Ed Mabry
For over a decade.
- [98:43]
Matt
That's cool. You just got such a body of work that you. If you want to write a book, you. You know what? This needs to be out in a book. Let me. Let me get all. Already have. Assemble it, put it in some kind of form that everybody's going to understand, and it's already here. It's ready to go.
- [98:56]
Top Lobster
Yeah, that's.
- [98:57]
Matt
That's awesome.
- [98:57]
Top Lobster
I think that's what Matt's after, but, no, I'm not. Yeah.
- [99:00]
Bluff
Yeah.
- [99:00]
Matt
I just want a podcast.
- [99:01]
Top Lobster
Matt wants.
- [99:02]
Ed Mabry
He's. He's.
- [99:03]
Top Lobster
Yeah, he wants to make a body work. It's the same thing. And it's.
- [99:06]
Matt
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [99:06]
Top Lobster
It's really cool to see you guys do that. And, like, just to be. Because I'm like. I'm like a third guy in this.
- [99:11]
Ed Mabry
I.
- [99:12]
Top Lobster
All I do is, like, create a platform that, like, we could put really cool dudes on to do stuff like this. So, like. Like, I'm happy.
- [99:19]
Ed Mabry
That's your job. That's your thing. And so you're. You're benefiting that. Because I couldn't. Yeah, you're doing things. I don't even think about the wiring and all. You. You kind of Helped me say, hey, you need to get a better mic. You need to get this sort of thing. I didn't know that stuff, but that was helpful.
- [99:33]
Top Lobster
Top crushes on point guard, but I think that's a good spot to leave it. And you know what? Can you. Let's tell the people again, because you have a new book out, you've got a body of work and everybody already knows, but show them a walk through this.
- [99:44]
Ed Mabry
This. Yeah, so faithfreereason.net though, that's where, like all of my legacy material is. You become a member and you can access all of it in that piecemeal format. And again, I'm consolidating it into. Into books and into other courses. I'm gonna. I'm gonna make my Revelation series into a course that's like a next one of my next big ventures is just making that one course you can take in, you know, one. One price. No, it's not a monthly thing. You can just buy that course at once and go through it. It on your own again. My new book about the Jesus code, which is the first four books, excuse me, the first four chapters of Revelation, the Seven Letters to Seven Churches, Synagogue of Satan, the Spirit of Jezebel, the Rapture, the Throne Room of God, we get into all that stuff there. So it's basically taking material I've talked about for a long time, just compiling that into pretty easy to read a book. You can get it digitally, epub, or if you want the paperback and go there to Amazon. If you want the digital copy, go to my site. You know, either go to faithbyreason.net or to Patreon. So. So to avoid the Amazon tax. But if you want a physical book, yeah, you got to go to Amazon to get that On Faith by reason, you can, you know, you have my Q&As, you get exclusive content, bonus content. Everything drops there first. And you can become a part of my Bible study, where we go through the entire Bible in 12 months from the supernatural point of view. And we're. Yeah, we're not quite halfway through for this year, so we're. Yeah, but we're. We're going through that and everyone's having a great time there. The spiritual warfare course. Again, you. If you want us, if you sign up with the coupon code nds. Capital nds. When you sign up, you get seven days. You're not charged. You can look at the. You can see the first month of all the content we have in that course, and you can decide if you want to Continue. If you do, great. And you'll, you can continue down that road. If you don't, then, you know, just cancel before the seven days is up and you are. Won't cost you anything.
- [101:37]
Top Lobster
People getting attacked by demons if you don't.
- [101:39]
Matt
Yeah.
- [101:40]
Ed Mabry
If you like being attacked by demons. Seven years. Keep going. But I'm gonna.
- [101:44]
Matt
You want the bowl of ice cream or the bowl of crap?
- [101:48]
Ed Mabry
You have seven days to decide if you want to stop being attacked by demons. And after, after seven days you say, you know what? Bring it on, demons. I want. I. I want it.
- [101:56]
Top Lobster
Then yes or yes? Yes or yes? Hilarious, man.
- [102:04]
Ed Mabry
Yeah. And I'll, I'm sure I'll be on before, before August again, but yeah, August bohemian girl will be down there.
- [102:12]
Top Lobster
Yeah, man. Guys, come hang out. Come hang out with Ed. Get it, get an autographed book, man. Have them autograph your book or whatever. You got me, Ed, Matt and a bunch of other people are going to be down there. It's going to be, it's going to be fun, man. But Ed, again, thank you. I'm very, I'm happy David wasn't here to distract from the conversation.
- [102:32]
Matt
He's great.
- [102:33]
Ed Mabry
David is. Raven is a savant. He just comes up with like stuff out of nowhere.
- [102:37]
Matt
He does. He does, dude. Out of nowhere. All of a sudden he'll say some profound thing that initially you want to go, dude, what do you. Then you go, wait, what did you just say?
- [102:46]
Top Lobster
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's asking the unorthodox question that makes people that are comfortable in their knowledge already really have to come outside of the box and think and. But I feel like I think we did that with this episode as well. This is, this is probably one of my favorite ones. I'm not gonna lie.
- [103:02]
Ed Mabry
This was a heavy one. I mean, we got into some deep waters, which is great. I love it.
- [103:06]
Matt
Love it.
- [103:07]
Top Lobster
Yeah, man. That's what, that's what Fridays are for. They're for the Lord and they're for deep waters. Ed, thank you again for coming on, man. We'll. We'll catch up with you pretty soon. And until next time, don't forget to obey, submit and comply. We'll see you.
- [103:29]
Spin Quest Announcer
Again.
- [103:32]
Ed Mabry
The end is written in the book. In the pages. They forget.
- [103:44]
Top Lobster
Death spot.
- [103:48]
Ed Mabry
Death spot. Death.
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