Hebrews w/ Otis Fowler & Raven | Part 2

Summary

Nephilim Death Squad – Hebrews with Otis Fowler & Raven | Part 2

Date: July 2, 2026
Hosts: Otis Fowler, Matt, Kiana (“Raven”), Casual Commentator
Podcast Theme: Christian comedy and conspiracy through a biblical lens: exploring hidden history, spiritual deception, and the supernatural worldview

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Episode Overview

This episode is a deep-dive discussion into Hebrews chapter 1 (verses 5–14), focusing on the supremacy and divinity of Jesus Christ in relation to the angels—establishing the framework for understanding the rest of Hebrews. Drawing on broad biblical references, the hosts weave in theology, church history, practical warnings against spiritual deception, and lively humor, creating an engaging conversation that equips listeners for discernment and deeper faith.

Tone: Candid, research-driven, humorous, yet reverent toward scripture.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Recap: Context & Importance of Hebrews

Timestamp: [04:54]–[07:40]

• Historical Setting: The book addresses Jewish Christians living under Nero’s persecution, shortly after Jesus’ crucifixion and the fall of the Temple.
• Purpose: To encourage believers facing hardship, affirming the sufficiency and supremacy of Jesus.
• Main Focus: The first verses establish Christ’s divinity and His role as the fulfillment of the Old Testament promises—the ultimate High Priest (Jeremiah 31, Ezekiel 36).

Quote – Matt ([04:54]):

"The whole point was to push the revelation to these Jewish Christians that Jesus is God. ... The important thing is that Jesus is now our High Priest... we now have purification of sins."

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2. Deity of Christ: Old Testament Roots & Core Scriptures

Timestamp: [08:24]–[11:02]

• Jesus is identified as fully God and fully man—the “exact representation” of God’s nature (Hebrews 1:1–4).
• OT passages (Isaiah 41:4, 44:6, 48:12) establish God’s unique claim: “I am the first and the last.” Revelation 1:17 & 22:13 applies this to Jesus.
• The distinction between Jesus and the Father is recognized, but the unity of the Godhead (Trinity) is stressed.

Quote – Kiana ([09:32]):

"So people have that question when regarding the... is Christ the same as the Father?... that's another one that's real clear. If you draw that correlation, 'I am the first and the last.'"

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3. Hebrews 1:5–14 Read-Through and Deep-Dive

Timestamp: [14:08]–[15:22], [17:03]–[18:36]

• Otis reads Hebrews 1:5–14 (KJV), stopping to discuss the significance of “begotten”—clarifying that Jesus’ “begotten-ness” refers not to creation, but to His resurrection and unique sonship.
• Jesus is the “firstborn of the dead” (Acts 13:32–33)—the only one with direct, uncreated existence from the Father.

Quote – Otis ([17:03]):

"When he raised Jesus from the dead... that's the context of that verse. That's when Jesus was begotten. ... He's the first, and we just come afterwards."

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4. Jesus vs. Angels: Ranking, Roles, and Warnings

Timestamp: [22:24]–[24:01], [25:01]–[28:21]

• Angels = “sons of God,” created ministering spirits; Jesus = only begotten, unique.
• Hebrews draws a deliberate contrast to discourage angel worship or any confusion.
• Paul’s severe warning: Even if angels preach a different gospel, “let them be accursed” (Galatians 1:8).
• Modern application: New religious movements (Mormonism, Islam) and New Age/occult philosophies often stem from "angelic revelations" or present “false Jesuses” (e.g., Christ consciousness, “ascended masters,” alien messengers).

Quote – Kiana ([26:41]):

"They got a Jesus loaded up for whatever your flavor ... there's an Ascended Master [Jesus]... whatever your thing is... there's so many different Jesuses. That's why this warning is so important."

Quote – Otis ([28:21]):

"Hebrews goes to great lengths to describe who this Jesus is. It's a timely book, man... it does matter who Jesus is."

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5. Simplicity of the Gospel and Works vs. Grace

Timestamp: [28:37]–[29:02]

• Christianity claims uniqueness through the resurrection—“the only religion with an empty tomb.”
• The true Christ offers salvation by grace, not “works-based enlightenment.” All other systems demand personal achievement; only the biblical gospel is rooted in the finished work of Christ.

Quote – Matt ([29:03]):

"Christianity is the only religion with an empty tomb. Come on, somebody."

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6. Judging, Doctrines of Demons & Modern Spiritual Deceptions

Timestamp: [30:27]–[37:49]

• Warning against latter-day doctrines: forbidding marriage, abstaining from foods (1 Timothy 4), twisting definitions (“love,” “judgment”).
• Call for accountability among believers—“by their fruits” (Matthew 7), not legalism or hypocrisy.
• Satan’s hallmark: Twisting scripture for deception—as seen when tempting Jesus in the wilderness.

Quote – Matt ([37:18]):

"The destabilizing of the word is a very good tactic to get people to believe what you want. And that's exactly Satan's ploy..."

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7. Whole-Bible Context, Shadows, and Substance

Timestamp: [41:07]–[43:43]

• Emphasizes reading both Old and New Testament as a unified narrative pointing to Christ—the “substance” to the “shadow” seen in OT law and sacrifice.
• Cautions against the Gnostic move to “decouple” the Testaments (demiurge heresy): “Christ is the fulfillment... it’s a through line.”

Quote – Kiana ([41:07]):

"If you read the whole thing in context, it's constantly pointing at Jesus Christ in the New Testament. So it's a through line..."

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8. Angels: Function & Status in God’s Economy

Timestamp: [43:53]–[46:33]

• Angels are messengers, not objects of worship. Even archangels (Gabriel, Michael) always direct honor to God.
• Jesus alone is worshipped by angels and inherits divine titles.
• Illustration: On the Mount of Transfiguration, the Father distinguishes Jesus above Moses and Elijah (Matthew 17).

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9. Magnification of Christ – Transforming Our Perspective

Timestamp: [47:45]–[49:16]

• When we “magnify the Lord,” God doesn’t change—our understanding widens.
• The word “transfigured” (Greek: metamorphoomai) used of Jesus is the same as “be transformed by the renewing of your mind” (Romans 12:2).

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10. Summary of Hebrews 1:5–14: The Absolute Supremacy of Christ

Timestamp: [49:49]–[52:54]

• Jesus is not merely comparable to, or superior to, angels—He is wholly “other.”
• Angels are ministering spirits; Jesus is eternal, creator, ruler.
• Old Testament citations: Psalms, Isaiah emphasize that Christ is both King and God (“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever…”)

Quote – Kiana ([52:26]):

"So this is just layers of delineations, like who Christ is. And if you think the angels are even close, you're wrong about that."

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11. Jesus’ Identity (“I AM”) and Jewish Reactions

Timestamp: [52:54]–[56:58]

• Jesus' “I AM” statements (Mark 14:62, John 8:58) directly echo God’s self-identification in Exodus (“I am that I am”).
• The Jewish authorities recognized this as a direct claim to divinity ("They knew exactly what Jesus was claiming...").

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12. Bible Translation Discussion & Reading the Whole Counsel of God

Timestamp: [57:19]–[58:14]

• Word-for-word translations (NASB, KJV, etc.) are preferred for accuracy; “paraphrase Bibles” can distort meaning.

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13. Angels: Their Appearance(s) and Roles

Timestamp: [58:50]–[62:24]

• Some “angel of the Lord” passages could be the pre-incarnate Christ (theophanies), some not—acknowledged as a debated point.
• Angels sometimes appear as men; in other times, their full, awe-inspiring form (wheels within wheels, six wings, etc.) induces fear.

Quote – Matt ([61:14]):

"I'm thinking of the Book of Ezekiel where... [the angel] actually is the wheel within the wheel. Yeah. Like covering in eyes. Yeah. And then no wonder they're saying, do not be afraid..."

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14. Divinity of Christ, The Trinity, and the Struggle to Grasp God’s Nature

Timestamp: [62:24]–[64:02]

• Admits the mystery of the Trinity, encourages engagement with the tension—God is outside time and space; human logic will always be limited.
• Hebrews presents Christ as elevated above all created beings—a lens to read all scripture.

Quote – Kiana ([62:24]):

"I like the idea that the first chunk of Hebrews is about laying out the lens... Hebrews, as soon as it starts off, it's like, yeah, this is the lens that you're going to look at this through. Elevated, higher than the angels..."

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15. Power Levels & Cultural Analogies

Timestamp: [64:36]–[65:09]

• Playful analogies to Dragon Ball Z power levels—Hebrews “lays it out” so there’s no confusion about spiritual rank.

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16. The Father’s Pleasure in Christ’s Sacrifice & the Necessity of the Cross

Timestamp: [66:33]–[73:40]

• Colossians 1:15–20 & Isaiah 53: The Father was "pleased to crush Him" (Jesus) for the sake of many.
• The cross was not optional—if any other way existed, the suffering would have been needless.

Quote – Otis ([68:24]):

"If there was any other way to God... then why in the world did we do the cross? This was a heinous suffering and torturous bloody death for Jesus. So if there's any other way, then that's heinous man."

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17. Living in Response to Christ’s Finished Work (Righteousness, New Birth, Changed Life)

Timestamp: [71:04]–[79:16]

• The grace that does not change your life cannot save your soul (“You’ll know them by their fruit”—Matt).
• No one, not even David or angels, could fulfill what Jesus did.
• Jesus is the only way, the only worthy sacrifice, the only one who both delighted and succeeded in doing the Father’s will.
• The Spirit enables what the law could not.

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18. Invitation to Salvation & Call to Action

Timestamp: [79:44]–End

• Matt’s closing:
  • God sent His Son to pay for our sins and restore relationship.
  • All human “fixes” for our brokenness fall short; only Christ’s finished work suffices.
  • Call to repentance and faith for listeners; the gospel must be “mixed with faith” to restore relationship with God.

Quote – Matt ([79:44]):

“The only thing that is stopping us now from a relationship with God is the decision that we have today to do so. ... He is not distant, passive, or impersonal—He is intimate, and He cares deeply about you...”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On angelic deception and cults:
  “So is that a warning for... the Book of Mormon and Islamism... these kind of religions that are inspired by angels, but the Bible strictly warns against that.” — Casual Commentator ([24:01])

• On alternative Jesuses:
  “They got a Jesus loaded up for whatever your flavor.” — Kiana ([26:41])

• On the cross:
  “Shouldn’t that shake our life? ... How are you saying you’re a Christian and you’ve come to terms with that? That it pleased God the Father to crush him…” — Otis ([70:36])

• On the law and grace:
  “If anything, the law just showed us that you can’t live under the law... you can only fulfill obedience to God by his grace, by his Spirit inside of you.” — Otis ([79:16])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:54]–[07:40]: Historical context and determination of authorship
• [08:24]–[11:02]: Old Testament support for Christ’s divinity
• [14:08]–[15:22]: Hebrews 1:5–14 read-through and unpacking
• [17:03]–[18:36]: “Begotten” and Psalm/Acts connection
• [22:24]–[24:01]: Angelology, “sons of God,” and NT warnings
• [25:01]–[29:02]: New Age/alternative Jesuses; gospel simplicity
• [30:27]–[37:49]: Doctrines of demons and redefining words
• [41:07]–[43:43]: Contextual reading; OT “shadows” and NT “substance”
• [47:45]–[49:16]: Magnifying Christ, transformation language
• [52:26]–[52:54]: Superiority of Christ over angels
• [58:50]–[62:24]: Theophanies, angel forms, and “angel of the Lord”
• [66:33]–[73:40]: Father’s pleasure in the cross; Isaiah 53 unpacked
• [79:44]–[End]: Salvation invitation and gospel summary

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Conclusion & Takeaway

This thoughtful and lively Bible study:

• Centers Jesus Christ as the divine, unique Son—superior to angels, the fulfillment of all Scripture, and the only way to the Father.
• Warns listeners to discern against any "different Jesus" or spiritual counterfeit, whether “angelic” or “New Age.”
• Encourages reading the whole Bible as one story, resisting shallow interpretations and modern spiritual fads.
• Calls all people to respond in faith, repentance, and ongoing transformation because of Christ’s finished work—a finished work meant for adoption, not more striving.

Signature reminder from the hosts:
Jesus is everything. Don’t miss Him. Hebrews is the lens—get it clear, and the rest unfolds.

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Stay Curious. Stay Dangerous.

Transcript

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[Kiana / Listener]

He's excited. Let him be.

[Casual Commentator]

Like Top Lobster Productions.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Screen they can hear you.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Welcome back to Another episode of Straight Bible, Book of Hebrews with Otis Fowler. Let's go. We're gonna do verses. We're in chapter one. We did verses one through four last week. It's a little chaotic right now just because we had somebody coming in that didn't make it. And so we're doing a little bit on the fly today.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

We've got the Raven in the mix.

[Kiana / Listener]

I'm here. I'm here. My name is on it. But that's not what's happening. I'm. I'm here just as a onlooker. I'm an odd looker.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

You're doing great as an on.

[Kiana / Listener]

Thank you very much.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

All right, so we're in. We're in. Hebrews, chapter one. We're gonna do.

[Kiana / Listener]

We.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

We did verses one through four last week. What day is today? Tuesday. That was last week. It was last Friday. We did 1 through 4, so we'll do 5 through 14. Top. We don't have anything pulled up. We're just reading, right? Yeah. You want to read NASB or you want me to read kjv? We could ask the Raven to read, but it's going to get weird.

[Kiana / Listener]

I mean, I could. I could read.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

You want to do it?

[Kiana / Listener]

No, I can't retain, though. I'm a great. A good retainer. I don't even have it pulled up, so. But I don't even know what's going on because I missed the first chunk of Hebrews. Do you want to do like a. Like a. Sort of a crash, you know, a thousand foot overview what has happened so far?

[Casual Commentator]

It's actually a good idea.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, we can, we can do a quick recap. Can we pray first?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Kiana / Listener]

All right, let's do it.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Awesome. Father, in Jesus name, we're just here to talk about your word. There is no agenda. There is no flash, Lord. It is just straight Bible. And we pray that it would be that. So in our insufficiency and our inadequacy, would you just be made perfect in all things, in spirit and in truth? Lord, we're here to worship you. May nothing be added to nor taken away. But would you reveal to us the spirits of. Or, excuse me, the. The mystery of your spirit in this moment, through the word Holy Spirit, hide us behind your cross and. And. And help us where we. Where we fail. We bless you, Lord, and thank you for your grace. And it's in Jesus name we pray. Amen.

[Kiana / Listener]

Amen.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Amen.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

All right, so the whole book of Hebrews is written to Jewish Christians that at the time just witnessed Jesus get crucified. And so now they are under emperor Nero from 64 A.D. to 69 A.D. because the Temple of Jerusalem fell in 70 A.D. and so what they are witnessing right now is Emperor Nero now persecute these Jewish Christians. And they're, they're getting their farmland taken away, they're getting persecuted for their faith. They are watching religious institutions fall apart and they're actually witnessing death. So they're being martyred for their faith. And there, there is the writer of Hebrew, which doesn't have a definitive source. Regardless of what people say about. Scholars say this, scholars say this. It's like unless the Bible says it, then it doesn't really matter. So the first word that we have really unpacked is just God, because that is the first word in the New American Standard Version. And chapter one, at least we got through the first three verses. We talked about last time of the Father was affirming the identity of the Son. And so to those Jewish Christians, they were wondering what was, if the, if the work of Jesus was enough. Okay, so that's what we're going to actually talk about throughout the entire book of Hebrews. But the whole first passage that we talked about was the deity and the person of Jesus Christ and how he was fully God and fully. And he was fully God. He was fully man. And the work is fully finished. Okay, so that is just the first three verses. And we could do a quick skim through that and I guess I'll read New American Standard just so that way, if there is any interpretation, it's already done, but it says God after He spoke long ago to the fathers and the prophets, in many portions and in many ways in these last days, has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom he also made the world. And he is the radiance of his glory and the exact representation of his nature, and upholds all, all things by the word of his power. When he made purification of sins, he sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high. So that is the text of which we pulled apart last week. And the whole point was to push the revelation to these Jewish Christians that Jesus is God. And the important thing is that Jesus is now our high priest. And what we're actually going to see is under the order of Melchizedek, that He has given us a new and better COVENANT. That's Jeremiah 31, Ezekiel 36. Whenever we are in this covenant, because Jesus's blood was perfect and it was now put on the mercy seat. We now have purification of sins.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I like that you pointed out that it was in Jeremiah and Ezekiel as well, though, because there's some things that will happen that, like. No, this was said ahead of time. Like if, like, the writer of the Hebrews comes along and says, hey, we're under a new covenant, they would be like, okay, we'll show us in the Scripture. And you go, okay, no problem. Let's go look at Ezekiel. Let's go look at Jeremiah. Let's look at these passages where God says he's going to have a new covenant with us. He's going to put his spirit within us. Let's look at those passages. And then. And then we know that. Right? Because I feel like there's a comparison to that today where people say, well, the gifts of the Holy Spirit have come to an end. Right. And we say, okay, no problem. Just go to the Scripture and let's see where the Scripture says that the gifts came to an end at the end of the first century. Because it's a lot of people's view. And so if you can't go to the Scripture to do that, it makes it a little wonky. But that's not what the New Covenant is. The New Covenant was told about in the Old Covenant.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right. Yeah. And at the beginning, it even says that he spoke long ago to the fathers and the prophets, many portions, in many ways. And in the last days, he's spoken to us through His Son. So what we did was we actually unpacked the beginning text and we showed how In Isaiah, Isaiah 41:4, 428, 44:6, and 48:12, it actually talks about Yahweh's direct claim. And he's saying that I am the first, and I am the last. I am the Alpha, the. Or, excuse me, I'm the beginning and the end, and I will share my glory with no one else. That is Yahweh's direct claim. And then if we go to Revel, and I the only one. Let me just actually go there.

[Casual Commentator]

Go ahead and say the Scripture and I'll pull it up.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

It's. I can't remember off the top of my head. Revelation 1:17. Is that right? Sorry, y'. All. This is a newer Bible, so all the pages are sticky together, but.

[Kiana / Listener]

Oh, you got it up. You want to make that full screen there?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

So, like here, when I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He placed his right hand on me, saying, do not be Afraid I am the first and the last. And then if we go all the way to the back, that's another one that.

[Kiana / Listener]

I mean, directly correlating it.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Right.

[Kiana / Listener]

So people have that question when regarding the. Not just the divinity of Christ, but is Christ the same as the Father?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Right.

[Kiana / Listener]

I guess it's kind of the Trinity question. But that's another one that's real clear. If you draw that correlation, I am the first and the last.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, not only that, but if you could pull up Revelation 22:13, this one encompasses everything that Yahweh was saying in the book of Isaiah. And he is. He is just fully saying, I am the Alpha, the Omega, the first and last and the beginning and the end. And if Yahweh is saying in Isaiah 40, in Isaiah 41:4, 42, 8, whatever, if he is saying that I will share my glory, especially Isaiah 42:8, I think that one says specifically that I will share my glory with no one else. But, yeah, he's making these direct claims that I'm the first and I am the last. It is showing that in these first four. First four verses, it says that if you miss Jesus, you miss everything. The book of Hebrews and we talked about last time is like the way that you view Jesus is going to be the lens in which you interpret the Bible. Meaning if you believe that he is a resurrected Savior seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, and that he has made atonement for your sins, you're going to walk in to the promises that he has for his people. But if you believe that he was just a prophet, of course it's not going to have any effect because it has to be mixed with faith. That's what in Hebrews 4 talks about.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

It's like the passage where in the Gospels where he says, well, who do men say that I am? And they say, well, man, some people say John the Baptist, some people say Elijah, some say Jeremiah. But everybody's pretty convinced you're somebody back from the dead, like you're otherworldly. And he says, yeah, but who do you say that I am?

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

And that's like the.

[Kiana / Listener]

How.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

How you respond to that question is the like determines everything. For your soul, for all eternity, for your life here and in the eternal realm. All right, the relation to Jesus, like, that's it. There's not.

[Kiana / Listener]

There's not anybody understanding this the right way. So he's saying, like, God spoke to the prophets of old, but then speaks to us like he spoke to the prophets but through his Son.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yes.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

He spoke through the prophets.

[Kiana / Listener]

Right, Was what he was saying unto the fathers by the prophets. Okay. Unto the fathers by the prophets. So by the by way of the prophets, God spoke to the fathers. And in that same way he speaks to us through His Son.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Amen.

[Kiana / Listener]

Okay.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, because I can't remember the exact reference off the top of my head, but he's like, before he does something, he pronounces it to his prophets of old, meaning that, like, the Lord would reveal his plans whenever it moved forward. I'll even look that up.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

It's in Amos where it says he won't do anything except he reveal it to his servants, the prophets first.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. So Amos 37, the eternal Lord does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants, the prophets. They are his spokespeople. So the Lord would reveal, like he did in Jeremiah 31, Ezekiel 36. He said, hey, I'm prophesying through my people of this new covenant that is coming. And Colossians 2:17 would say that they the Old Testament is a shadow of things to come, while Jesus. Jesus Christ is the substance. And that is the same thing of in Hebrews chapter 10, where it talks about the things that are alluding to a covenant, but it never gave us the power over sin. The blood of Jesus, since it's perfect. Going back to that, he's seated now at the right hand of the majesty, or he's seated at the right hand of power, is in the Old Testament, the high priest never was able to sit down because he was constantly making atonement and sacrifices, not just for the people of Israel, but also for himself. So whenever he was going into the holy of holies, he was never going in there to commune with God. He was going in there for penitence. He was going over to make sacrifice and atonement for the bloodshed. So it was always a reminder of their sinful state. Now Hebrews 10 also talks about that since we have been brought close by the blood of the Lamb, we can approach the throne with boldness. Now that we have that boldness, it is actually open to fellowship for relationship with God, not just for continued repentance. Yes, we should repent and turn away from our sinful nature. But because of the blood of Jesus, God has actually forgotten of our sinful past and he looks at us under the blood. So the power of the first four verses in Hebrew is to show about he was fully God, fully man, and the work is fully fulfilled. And if you miss Jesus through this one part, you May. The book of Hebrews isn't going to mean anything because Jesus is everything.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

That's a solid recap, bro.

[Kiana / Listener]

Okay. All right, well, let's. Let's get into it then, man.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And so from Psalm 19:1:4 and Romans 120, we know that God exists in creation. And you can look at creation and you can tell that there is a creator and he exists. But reading, you can actually. Why don't you actually read in King James this part?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

What, Hebrews 1:4 through.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, we could do 4 through 14. Just do it all. Yeah, through 14.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Stop me at any point. Being made so much better than the angels, as he has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he, at any time, thou are my son, this day have I begotten thee. And again I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. And again, when he brings in the first begotten into the world, he saith, and let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, who makes his angels, spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire, but under the sun he saith, thy throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom. I don't know, maybe we do unpack that. I mean, these are all these passages. Jesus is God, and this is where people get hung up saying, he's been created. Look, he's begotten. So he must have been made by the Father. And so it gets a little mangled in some of that.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, dude, I actually want to. I actually. Yeah, we could park right there. Let's unpack that. But since I know I'm jumping around a lot, but the whole. The whole book of Hebrews is just so rich in its content that it all is just saying the same thing over and over again because it cannot stress how perfect the work and how fulfilled the work actually was.

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[Kiana / Listener]

I'm Kiana and I leveled up My business with Shopify, once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business. But Shopify, it's doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like, I can't stop. I'm addicted.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Start your free [e-mail] but in Hebrews, chapter 10, verse. No, actually verse 5, it says, therefore when he comes into the world, he says, sacrifice and offering you have not desired, but a body you have prepared for me. So Philippians 2:7, it goes back to saying that Jesus took on the form of a bond servant. He did not empty himself of his deity. He simply added flesh to the deity that he already was. We talked about that. Jesus Christ is not a different God. He's the invisible God made visible. So whenever he took on the form of that bond servant, he actually says, here, you prepared a body before me, which means his existence predated his incarnation, and that the very incarnation was submission to the Father's will. That's what he's saying here.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

And I. And I would take it that that's where he. There's two places where he's talking about today. He was begotten. He was begotten in the womb of Mary. But in Acts, if we look at Acts 13:32 and 33, it says, this says, and we declare unto you glad tidings how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, and that he has raised up Jesus again. We talk about how God raised Jesus from the dead. God the Father did it. That's what it says in Romans as well, that you must confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God hath raised him from the dead. God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, and that he hath raised up Jesus again, as it is also written in the second psalm. That's interesting, too. That means the Psalms were numbered. Because, you know, sometimes we think about, like chapters of the Bible were not chapters. They were not right. But the Psalms were, because they were songs. But anyway, so in Acts, they're quoting Psalms 2. I think it's 2, 7, raised up Jesus again, as it is also written in the second psalm. Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee. So. So the writer of Acts, which is Luke, he's. He ties all this together, saying, God hath fulfilled the same unto us, their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again. As it is also written in the second Psalm, thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee. So when he raised Jesus from the dead, he's saying that's the context of that verse. That's when Jesus was begotten. He wasn't begotten in the beginning of time. He wasn't, like, created by the Father, though. That's where he was begotten. And that's where he's called, like the firstborn of the dead. Right. And we're brothers with him. He's the first, and we just come afterwards.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Can you look up first Peter 1:20 for me?

[Casual Commentator]

Nasb. Right. Any.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's fine.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah.

[Casual Commentator]

Here it is.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Who through him, are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory so that your faith and hope are in God. And then Revelation 13:8 says, all who dwell on earth will worship him. Everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world. In the book of life, the of the Lamb who has been slain. So similarly throughout, just throughout Scripture, but primarily in this context of God's existence being before, or Jesus's existence being predated to his incarnation, you know this, the Lamb of God who is slain before the foundation of the world, that Jesus already enacted the Father's will in this moment simply by putting on flesh. And it was to come and to make ransom for sin. It was to pay for the price of sin and the penalty of it. And I think that there is, like we talked about the word begotten in the last episode. It means a direct derivative of. So in plain. Plain context or plain text, we are adopted into God's family. Jesus is directly from the Father. So you and I are created in the image of God, while Jesus actually is God. He is the actual substance of that power. So it would be like Jesus is flesh and blood. We're off the street. Like, to put it. To put it into perspective. And now we have been adopted. So first John 3 actually talks about that There's. There is a difference between being a child of God and a child of the world or a child of Satan. That's actually what Jesus would call the Pharisees. Like, you are of the. You of your father, the devil. So there is a huge delineation in that. But we become a part of God's family when we become adopted in the sonship. Sonship by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and then we get it. We get grafted into that family. So not only that, but in the old covenant, we were far off, but now, because of the blood of Jesus, it actually talks about in Ephesians 1:1 or 2, where it's like, you who were once far off have now been brought near by the blood of Christ, meaning that we have now been brought into the family of Jesus. There's no longer a separation which was our sinful nature that. That put us out of what God's will for us was, but it was simply by the blood of Jesus and his son. Talking about how whenever the high priest would go into the temple, it was always a reminder of his sin. But now that Jesus's blood is there, ours is now reconciliation with the Father. Does that make sense? So now Jesus definitely is the only begotten Son. John 3:16. Everybody knows that for God's love the world, to give his only begotten Son. Only begotten son. But the crazy thing is what. What the writer of Hebrews is now saying is he is actually showing the vast difference, not just in creation, of who is in proportion to us, but who he is in proportion to angelic beings. So, like Elohim translates to. To angelic beings. Now, El Elohim is in reference to Yahweh, but Elohim is in reference to angelic beings. Similarly, in Job, chapter one, verse six. I think I have it here somewhere.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

What are you talking about? When. When all the angels, the sons of God show up. Yes.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And he calls them sons of God.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

So angels may be collectively called sons of God. No angel has ever been given the title begotten son. You are my begotten friend. Which immediately puts Jesus in a rank of his own. If it didn't do that in the first four because there was that temptation to worship or angelic beings. And Colossians 2:18 and Galatians 1:8, that's where Paul was saying is, like, I have been given this gospel by the Lord Jesus Christ. And if anybody comes and tries to get you to teach another gospel or believe a different gospel, like, let that person be accursed. That is, Paul was revealing the revelation. Let me actually just go there. Paul was revealing the revelation of the gospel, and he says the same thing in John chapter no, Second John, and the end of Revelation, where it's adding to it. But even if we, or an angel from heaven should preach to you, this is Galatians 1:8. But even if we are, an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed. And that is to simply say that Jesus is fully God, fully man. He came to this earth, lived a perfectly sinless life, and he lived a life that we could not. He died the death that we should have died. And in doing so, he made forgiveness of sin, where he was buried in the tomb for three days, and he resurrected on the third day and is ascended to the right hand of the Father, where he's reigning and ruling right now. That Jesus came fully God, fully man, in the flesh. That's what he would say. He has to have come in the flesh. Because if today, if somebody tries to tell you that Jesus did not come in the flesh, that's actually doctrine of demons, so.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Sure.

[Casual Commentator]

So is that a warning for. I mean, it sounds. You just described the Book of Mormon and you described Islamism as like these kind of religions that are inspired by angels, but the Bible strictly warns against that.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Well, it's interesting, the dude, Prometheus lens, when he was on, brought that up too, that, like, you know, why was Israel, like, going astray in the wilderness and coming out of Egypt and stuff? And he was making the point that they were being ministered to, if you will. They were being influenced by other angels. They were able to show them things, show them stuff. And there's this thought, I think in Hebrews, it brings it out too. The angels were connected to the bringing forth of the law. I mean, there was the pillar of fire, the. The pillar of cloud and the pillar of fire that went with them day and night. There's. There's was this other, like, supernatural stuff that was happening. And so, like, they very easily could be led astray by angels. So you're just making the point that, like, hey, Jesus is God. Yeah, there's angels doing stuff. Don't be led astray by them. Even if an angel shows up and preaches you another gospel, let him be cursed.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, not so. Actually, you guys are going to love this. I don't know why I just, like, haven't mentioned this to y' all before. But before we get there, I do want to quote my source first. John 4, we can read verses one through three says, beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. Because many false prophets have gone out into the world by this, you know, the spirit of God. Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God, is the spirit of the Antichrist of which you have heard that is coming and now, and now it is already in the world. So, yeah, many people are already being led astray by false doctrines that are indoctrinated by the spirit of the Antichrist.

[Kiana / Listener]

Islam and Mormonism are, you know, sort of religious examples. But if you look outside into the New Age and occult practices, they are presenting a false Jesus. And that Jesus is one that is like Christ consciousness. This idea that like you can achieve it through like meditative processes and New Age motifs. And then there's, you know, Pleiadian Jesus, which is a plug in for the. If you're into aliens and such. So there are so many different Jesuses. That's why this warning is so important because I think that if you're in a religious institution of any sort and, and that's your framework, then you'll see like, like top mentioned Islam and Mormonism and things like that, and you'll understand it in that context. But you step one foot outside of those institutions and you look at, you know, what's happening on the world stage right now. Donald Trump's doing Alien disclosure and such. They have one loaded up for that too. So there's going to be, it doesn't matter what it is.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

They have a Jesus loaded.

[Kiana / Listener]

They got a Jesus loaded up for whatever your flavor.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

What did you call or what are the people called? The Ascended Master.

[Kiana / Listener]

Ascended. So there's a Pleiadian one that's like a straight up alien. There's an Ascended Master, which is to say that Jesus is no different than any of the, let's say like Buddha. Buddha was an ascended Master. He achieved nirvana through meditative process, past practices, and living a life that conducive to whatever that achievement actually is. And, and Jesus is no different from that. And since Buddha did it and Jesus did it and a number of other historical religious figures throughout different, you know, Eastern religions have achieved it. You too can achieve it. And it's like, so whatever your thing is, if you're a New Ager, if you're into the psychedelics movement, if you're into aliens, if you're into the deep occulted ideas of. And I would say that's where you get the Ascended Master thing as well, through these mystery schools. So it's, you know, Freemasonry, but like the oto, much more extreme ones, Freemasonry in very many ways. We talked to somebody recently from Italy. In America, it is just a men's club, but overseas it's a totally different animal. But they believe that all of this is allegorical. For something that mankind can achieve, you know, Jacob's ladder turns into rungs of enlightenment so that you can achieve a certain state. It's really no different than, I would say, like the Buddhist idea of reaching nirvana. So, yeah, just, just to, I guess, John's point, they. They're gonna do that. They're already doing that. They've been doing that for a long time. And it's probably a lot denser than even the ones that I've mentioned here. There's probably a vast array of, of

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

of Jesuses and Hebrews goes to great lengths to describe who this Jesus is. It's a timely book, man. I mean, it's always a timely book. But I suppose based on all of that that you just said, that's in the news now and stuff, it does matter who Jesus is. We've talked about it before. He's a Jewish man. Yeah, like it's. It matters who he is.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah, simple. It's been made. Yeah, it really has been made simple because through all these mystery schools, it's a convoluted ceremony, ritual based, intellectual achievement based. It works based. It's works based. Whereas, you know, the Christ of, of the Bible is, is actually very simple. And I, and I, it seems to me that that's because we can't ever claim it had anything to do with us.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Amen.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Christianity is the only religion with an empty tomb. Come on, somebody.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah, there you go. Right.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And so I do want to, since we're, since we're here, I do want to address that. In Hebrews, chapter 13, verse 1, it says, Let love of the brethren continue. Or verse two, do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it. And this is, this is my speculation rabbit hole that we can like toss around is if Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light, we have now been made known the mysteries of the angelic beings. And that if, According to chapter one, verse 14, they are ministering spirits, their messengers, they render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation, meaning that they have been given dominion. If we go to Job, chapter one, that Satan comes to and fro from heaven to earth as he pleases, and if he master masquerades himself as an angel of light, like Mormonism was founded on, then who's to say that demons can't do the same thing? If, if these, if we are not being like we were talking about, there is a doctrine of demons, those who forbid marriage and eating of Meats. Yeah. And being led astray by saying, preaching a religion where Jesus did not come in the flesh, which he definitely.

[Kiana / Listener]

Wait, did you say forbids marriage?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. Can you reiterate that? Pull that passage up.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Let me get it up.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Up.

[Casual Commentator]

Yeah.

[Kiana / Listener]

Forbid marriage. That's wild.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Well, what do you mean? That's like the Catholic system.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's because people don't want procreation of

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

the local Catholic system. They don't get married, those priests.

[Kiana / Listener]

Oh, oh, I understand what you're saying now. Okay.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I'm just saying that's one modern example. But, but he's saying, like, there's coming a day where they're going to forbid you to get married. And, and I think in the same verse it talks about there's certain meats you can't eat. Like, because this topic comes up, people are like, oh, you eat pork, you're living in sin. Obedience, get some. You know, like, people are like that. The scripture says, like, you eat, you know, they're going to forbid certain meats.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Okay, let's go first Timothy, chapter 41 5, it says, but the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience, as with the branding iron men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared and those by whom believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude, for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

So you can eat anything you want is what that passage very clearly says.

[Kiana / Listener]

It's interesting. I, I, I think about that through like a, maybe like a governmental structure. What does it look like? Do you think a time could come? Where would that be specifically through a religious lens, or would they?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

All of the above. I mean, it says now the Spirit speaks. So the Holy Spirit's telling Paul, like, communicating this to Paul, and Paul writing it to Timothy, saying, the Holy Spirit speaks expressly that in the latter times, which, which could potentially be. It's definitely now, but it's really any time since Christ. Yeah, yeah. Then in the latter times, some shall depart from the faith. So this is heavy, bro. So this is specifically people who were part of the faith. It says that they will, in verse one, they will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits. So spirits that come in and seduce you, you Right. So you can argue for it and you can prove that you're right. But you've been seduced, right? Giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, doctrines of devils, speaking lies in hypocrisy. So check their life, right? Like Jesus says, examine their fruit. They're speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared with a hot iron. You've met people like that, bro. They don't have a conscience anymore. Having their conscience seared with a hot iron, forbidding to marry. They say, oh, yeah, man, certain people can't get married. Like, good luck. What could go wrong there? Like what? Like, what do you think's gonna happen? And commanding to abstain from meats, from food, certain foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. So if you believe and know the truth, you're eating whatever you want, read whatever you want. Why? Because every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused if it be received with thanksgiving.

[Kiana / Listener]

That's a real problem for those people who say, yeah.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. That's why people pray for their food. And to sanctify it or to bless your food is to thank God for it. Like. Like even sometimes. Like, maybe you're in a. Maybe you're in a rush or whatever. Like, I don't think there's a lot of times that I. Food goes in my mouth that I don't at least, like, even to myself, like, thank you, Lord.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

You know, I was thinking about that the other day. I was like, we always pray for food. We never pray for our drinks. But no, I think it's. I think it's more. It also has to deal with procreation.

[Casual Commentator]

You know, the.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

The people in the church of God is consistently and continually growing, and so is the kingdom of heaven. Because believers have been continuously procreating and by sanctifying their children, by the parents, faith and. And so on and so forth. And God says in the Old Testament, he's like, I am a compassionate God. I'll be gracious to whom I'm gracious. I'll have mercy on who I have mercy. So ultimately, whenever we stand before God, we have no idea what he's going to do, because we know that the work of Jesus. The work of Jesus was for everyone. Where'd that go? The work of Jesus was for everyone. And it was completely full. I have no idea where that went.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Sorry.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

It went to a different realm.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

No, I Like, where you're going with this, though. So what are you saying? You're saying that, like. I'm saying don't judge of who's what, because you don't really know. It's funny because I was thinking about Nicodemus earlier this week. I was preparing some stuff, and I was thinking, like, I don't know if this dude ever professed openly to love Christ, dude, but, like, you see the way the story plays out and how it. And how it ends, where he's getting the body down and wrapping it and aloes and stuff with Joseph Vera, Matthew. I'm like, this is a dude who maybe, you know, wasn't, like, out there brazen, out in the open, claiming Christ. But. And people might have looked at him and said, nah, dude, this. This guy's not a real one. But come to find out he was a real one. We don't know.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Absolutely. That just goes. It just goes back to, only God knows the heart of man. And we can look at outward intentions, but we. We do know, like. Like we were talking about in Matthew chapter seven, where it talks about the observation of a tree that bears good fruit. You will. You will know people's theology. You will know people's relationship with the Father. You will know who they are, one, by the way that they speak, and two, by the fruit of their lives and the fruit on the tree. And that is what we are called to observe. We're not called to judge people by the. Based on the lifestyle that they live. We can hold people accountable. And a lot of people tend to say, judge not. Let you be judged. No, judge not. Unless you be judged on the same order that you do judge or same measure that you make judgment. It is. We are called to hold each other accountable. There's an order, and that's why God gives it to us. There's an order on how we do that privately. Two or three brothers in front of the congregation.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Well, and there's a. There's a. I think that word carries more than just what we would call, like, judging. It's like, judge, jury, and executioner. You're like, they've done this. This is what I'm gonna judge their motive, too. I'm gonna guess their motive, and then I'm gonna. And this is what they deserve because of it.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

It's like, no, no, we do. We do need to be judging, especially in the church, specifically to. To understand what's going on. But they. But at a certain point, we leave it to God. We say, hey, God, like this is happening. But I don't want to guess their motive and I don't want to subscribe to them. Some kind of punishment for it.

[Kiana / Listener]

It's amazing what that turns into though. This is like, we talk about definitions really often.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Kiana / Listener]

And you know, love is. Is one of those definitions that gets totally screwed up. Love is. Love becomes some Totally. Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And.

[Kiana / Listener]

And I think judgment is another one of those where people will do horrifying things or live a lifestyle that is. Is to the detriment of others. And then, you know, if you should say anything and you're Christian, well, you know, don't judge me. Or. Or else you'll be judged. And it's like that's the most watered down, ridiculous version of that.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Sure.

[Kiana / Listener]

You know, but that's what happens. You know, destabilizing the definition of words is a pretty good tactic if you want to be able to never draw a conclusion or come to a consensus.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I love what you just said there. The destabilizing of the word is a very good tactic to get people to believe what you want. And that's exactly Satan's ploy with this. You know, whenever Jesus was led into the wilderness, he was quoting scripture. I guarantee you, Jesus, or excuse me, I guarantee you Satan knows scripture better than any believer alive. He's had thousands of years to practice. Yeah. And to learn how to find loopholes and to change it away. Masquerades himself as an angel of light.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

But we also know that Jesus had to come in the flesh. He was fully God and he was fully man. And we also now know that the forbidding of marriage and of foods is the doctrine of demons. We know the spirit of the Antichrist. We know the. We know the doctrine of demons. We know what is true whenever we are in our words or in the Word. And that is what the. The book of Hebrews is. Is pointing us to is that the Old Testament was a shadow of the New Testament. And the substance of Jesus we talked about last show of In John chapter 1, verse 17, how the law was given to us through Moses, but grace and truth are realized through Jesus Christ. That word realized in the Greek is a genito, which means to become incarnate. So whenever grace and truth are realized in the full person of Jesus Christ, he's always been the same God. The same God who said stone and anyone and anything that touches my holy mountain is the same God who said turn the other cheek. The difference is that now Jesus has given us the Holy Spirit to allow us to Walk in the, the, the. The spirit so we don't gratify the desires of our flesh. And that is exactly what the enemy wants. He wants us changing the word to, to fit our lifestyle. I tell or say all the time is like most of the time people do not want the one true living God nowadays. They want a projection of their own heart. They want to be able to contain. They want to be able to contain them in a way that is, is supple or it supports their lifestyle without giving them any accountability. And that is what really what pushes us away from the Word. And Jesus, yes, he pardons sin and he covers over a multitude because he is love and but don't get me wrong, we cannot continue going on in our sin. That's exactly what First John chapter three talks talks about. Is that the one that who has been made right with God, who has been one with God does not continuously go on and sin not saying that you won't fall again. But we have been, we have put fighting against it. Yes.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

And another point to what you're saying about the mangling of words and, and specifically to that encounter between Satan and Jesus in the wilderness. Like you're saying Satan's saying it is written and. But Jesus continues to come back with, with but it is also written. That's right. And I think that's really where we have to get at like that really is the context even for the straight Bible show is like unpacking any given passage with supporting references from the scripture. I think like it's very easy for Satan or demons or whoever to say it is written, but you have to have enough grounding in the word of God to say but it is also written and to be able to balance these things.

[Casual Commentator]

I'm glad you said that. You never said that before. But that's the entire point of street Bible. I think think it's that like, because we run up into that all the time where somebody says well look at this Scripture. And it's like, well what about the other ones? But it's also written.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, you have, you, you have to have this balance. You have to have. I mean that's how Jesus did it. It's not, it's not really. Satan said it is written. Jesus said, yeah, it's also written. This is our whole life is just balancing these things in the scripture. Like what do you do with these passages that even sometimes seem to contradict. Right. But if you're not doing that and you're just trying to pull passages for what you want, want Like I think what you're alluding to is like people who create God in their image, instead of God creating them in his image, they're just making God whoever they want him to be. Then you can just pull passages and make it say whatever you want. But that's why you have to have the Bible in context. Not just like a passage or a book, but the entirety of the Bible in context.

[Kiana / Listener]

That's what people are doing. So going back to that idea of like preaching a different Gospel of a different Jesus, people are doing that when they're decoupling the Old Testament from the New Testament because they look at the Old Testament and they find it, it harsh to the extent because they're not reading it in context. If you read the whole thing in context, it's constantly pointing at Jesus Christ in the New Testament. So it's a, it's a through line. But since they cannot square the God of the Old Testament who seems harsh in comparison to Jesus Christ, the coming of Christ and everything that he teaches, they decouple it entirely. They say that the God of the Old Testament is in fact this is the deep coveted knowledge. This is the secret that's hidden within the Bible. And this is like leaning on your own understanding. But they'll go know this is the demiurge. This is the entity that imprisons us here. This is not the same God that is God the Father that Jesus Christ is talking about. And it's like if you just read the entire thing with understand that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of everything that the God of the Old Testament is talking about. But without that you can start to like Matt is saying, pick and choose these different things, individual passages, compare and contrast them and go look, they're totally different. Therefore the demiurge, therefore you know there is secret hidden knowledge that we can achieve if we just read between the lines and determine. God of the Old Testament is in fact an imprisoning monster.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Better live in the word of God man. To be able to get it in between all that man.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And the one thing that you, we cannot separate is that the entire Bible is to point to the substance of Jesus Christ being God. And that is kind of where I want to throw us back in about the difference between Jesus and angels is if you go to Colossians, chapter 2, verse 18, it says let no or let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self abasement and the worship of angels. Taking his stand on visions he has seen inflated without cause his foot by his fleshly mind. And there is this urge also in Galatians, like I was reading earlier, before

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

we go too far past that, I'll just. If you go a couple verses before that says let know man therefore judge you in meat. There's. There's that again. Let no man judge you therefore in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holiday, or of the new moon, or even of Sabbath days.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That goes back to Colossians 2, 16 and 17.

[Kiana / Listener]

That's wild because I see people say that all the time on, on Twitter. They'll be like, oh, you're still doing the Sabbath on. You're doing it wrong.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

No man judge you according to Sabbath. Like it's the Sabbath is. I mean, that's what Paul's saying right there. And here's why you already alluded to this. This which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ. Like all of this stuff was shadows pointing to Christ.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

So because of that, like, yeah, there was Sabbath days. That's pre law. Like Sabbath is pre law. It's not just in the law, but, but even that. Let no man judge you according to these things. These are all types of Christ.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right. Yeah. And the, the cool thing is that there is just this constant theme that Jesus is the only source of, is supposed to be the only source of our worship, of our daily cross carrying. He's supposed to be the one that we are setting our. Our hope. And he is the author and finisher of our faith and we are to pursue him in all things. And so going back to like what I was saying in Colossal or Galatians, chapter 1, verse 8. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed. The. The premise of all of this is the weight of the gospel. And he, the book of Hebrews is saying that. That it had to have been Jesus. Why? Because he is fully God and he's fully man. And it had to have been enough because he is saying that his blood is much better than bulls and goats. That he is. He is the perfect high priest. He is the perfect king. He lives to make intercession for the believers. He is constantly fulfilling everything that it was because he is a eternal being that was not confined by a time limited moment. That it was an eternal being on the cross in one moment that satisfied all of creation in that one moment because of how perfect it was on the CR. And so going to verse 14. I just want to, like, talk about what angels actually. Like what scripture. Just in this one. Scripture says angels are. Says that they are excluded. They are excluded from the titles of the sun. Going back to verse four, having become as much better than the angels, he hasn't inherited a much more excellent name than they. So angels are excluded from the titles and names of. Of the sun. And that angels are messengers, ministers, spirits, servants, and ambassadors. That is it. If we go to Luke, chapter one, right before the Magnificat with Mary, Gabriel will come to Mary and he will say, behold, I am the archangel Gabriel and I stand in the presence of God. Yeah, that's all. That's his claim. If we go to Jude. Whenever Michael is contending over the body of Moses with Satan, he. He doesn't say, the Lord rebuke you. He puts the Lord in front of him. He's an archangel. That's probably top three, at least.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

In. In the kingdom of God. And so he is still saying the Lord rebuke you, meaning that the Lord's name will always come before an angel.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Amen.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Will always come before an angel. Same thing with the Gospel. The Gospel of Jesus Christ. What he did is always going to come before any work of any messenger, angel, ambassador, servant, spirit, whatever it is.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Amen.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Because he has given him a much more higher name than they. And at that name, every knee will bound, every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. So that this whole first section is just showing the full. Like this is gonna. The first chapter of Hebrews is going to be the lens which we view the rest of the book. Because if we can understand how perfect the work of Christ was just in this first chapter, everything else is just going to glorify him. And whenever we say magnify the Lord with me, obviously we can't make God bigger because he's already the biggest he can be. We're actually widening our perspective of him. So whenever we say magnify the Lord, it's like, hey, let's renew our minds in more. In. In better light. It's Metamorpho in the Greek. And whenever we go to the Mount of Transfiguration, whenever Peter is up on the mount with Jesus and Moses and Elijah, and he's saying, lord, should I make a. Should I make three tents for you guys? In doing so, he was actually making Jesus equivalent to Moses and Elijah. And that's whenever the Father rebukes him and he says, this is my beloved Son, in whom I'm well pleased. Listen to Him. He rebukes Peter.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Thank God for Peter, dude, come on, man. Thank God for the stuff he says and blurts out that, like. It just. Just shows us so much, man. Yeah. If he wasn't around asking those questions and doing those things, we wouldn't know about. Yeah, that's intriguing, bro.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, the actual, like, metamorphoto is used there again in the rebuke of a renewing. He's like, hey, I know this is what you think of my son.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Is that metamorpho IO is that the transfer, the word transfigured?

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I believe so. Yeah. Let me.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

So when it says that Jesus was transfigured, it's like metamorphosis. Like that. Like, that is the word. Because I know that whatever that Greek word is, I can't remember. Maybe it is the metamorphosis, metamorphosis word. But wherever it's used of Jesus that he was transfigured, it's the same word in Romans 12, like, 1, 2, where it says, be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Same word. It says, like, be transfigured. Like, the same way Jesus was transfigured into that radiating, that glory. It's telling us the same thing, man. Be. Be transfigured by the renewing of your mind.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Is it that same word?

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The transfiguration of Jesus In Romans, chapter 12, verse 2, where he says, do not conform to the patterns of this world.

[Casual Commentator]

World.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

The transform and transfiguration, same. Synonymous. Yeah, metamorphile.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

And you're saying that's what the Father said back to Peter, though.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. He's saying, like, hey, like what I was talking about with magnify, it is we are broadening our perspective of Jesus in this moment because we cannot make Jesus bigger than.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Well, that makes sense. When we magnify some or put under a magnifying glass, the thing doesn't change. Right.

[Kiana / Listener]

It's just.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

It's just us changing our view.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right. And that's what. That's what we're doing in this moment. We're actually broadening our perspective on what God is saying or God the Father is saying. God the Son, man, we can spend

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

our life doing that.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right. That's right. And so let all the angels of God worship him. And again, going back to Job, chapter one, verse six, where he calls them all the sons of God. That is completely different to Jesus being the Son of God.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Sure.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Because we know that he is the only Begotten. And verse seven. And the angels, he says, who makes his angels win. And his minister is a flame of fire. But the sun, he says, your throne, O God, is forever and ever. And the righteous scepter is the scepter of his kingdom. We know that righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. And at the right hand is where Jesus is sitting. And like I was saying last episode in Matthew 28, 18, 19, then Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven on earth have been given to me. That's that right hand in position again. Hand. Jesus being at the right hand of God, meanings he had. He is all of God's power. And we talked about that, too, in going back to Luke chapter 1 in Isaiah 40, 40, verse 12 or 41. 12, something like that, where he measures the universe with the span of his hand. And now Jesus, whenever Mary is looking at God and he's saying that, hey, you have given me this promise of a son. Jesus is now the strength of God's arm. And the scepter is. Is made in righteousness for his kingdom. Kingdom, because it will last forever. And the. The premise of what I'm getting at is Jesus is the only righteous one.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Amen.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Jesus is the only righteous one. And I can't remember where in Isaiah it says. But it says like a righteous. Isaiah 40:3. I don't know.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Maybe our righteousness is as filthy, filthy rags. Yeah, it's like a menstruous, monstrous cloth. Period blood. He's like, oh, you're so righteous. Righteous is like period blood to me.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Our best crazy, bro.

[Kiana / Listener]

So crazy.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

He's saying, like, hey, any. Any form of accreditation that you think that you have, that could inherit any good favor with me, your way to the kingdom of heaven, any love that I can give you, I view it as monstrous.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Rags.

[Kiana / Listener]

Smells like pennies. That's crazy.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

That is wild.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Hell, man, it's actually insane. All right, let me see what else I got. So we know.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Where did I stop at? You want me to read the rest of the.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I think we were at verse 10 or 9. Verse 9.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I'll pick up a 9. You. You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity. Therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And thou, Lord, in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth. And the heavens are the works of your hand. Hands, they shall perish, but you remain. And they all shall wax old, as does a garment. And as a vesture shall thou fold them up and they shall be changed. But you are the same, and your years shall not fail. But to which of the angels said he at any time, sit on thy right hand until I make your enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

[Kiana / Listener]

So this is just layers of delineations, like who Christ is. And if you think the angels are even close, you're wrong about that.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. Better than angels. Better than. That's what the writer of Hebrews is doing, man. He even gets into Moses.

[Kiana / Listener]

This is, like you said, laying the groundwork for the lens that you're going to look at the rest of Hebrews through.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Okay, that's gonna be it. And it's fair to look at the. The groundwork for how you're going to look at everything that you're reading at this point.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Jesus is totally separate.

[Kiana / Listener]

Jesus crushes harder than.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

He's not comparable to an angel.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right. Right. And if we go to Mark, chapter 14, verses 62 through 63, this is whenever Jesus is brought before. He's so fast.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

He's on it, dude.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And Jesus said, I am. And actually go up one more. 61. 63. But he kept silent and did not answer again. The high priest was questioning him and saying to him, are you the Christ, the son of the blessed one? And Jesus said, I am. And you shall see the son of man sitting at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven, tearing his clothes. The high priest said, what further need do we have of witnesses? So tearing clothes and throwing ashes on your head was a form of lament in that moment? Because he's essentially saying that what Jesus just said was blasphemy. But what Jesus just said was that I am statement in verse 62, if you translate that in Greek and or Hebrew, it is to. It is a go and me. Which is the exact translation that yahweh used whenever Moses said, whom should I tell him, Sydney? He says, I am. That I am. That is the exact same thing. And we also get that in John 8. 58, when he says he's fighting with the dudes.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

They say, you're not even 50. How do you say before Abraham was I am? Yeah, they knew what he was saying.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right. So that's like whenever we read I am is going back to the Bible translations. It does matter.

[Kiana / Listener]

That was freaking dudes out. What, for him to say that?

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, absolutely. Because they knew. They knew it contextually weren't we just talking about writing letters in Hebrews and people believing that it was canonical because it was in their original language. Who was I talking to about that? Yeah, like, they knew exactly that Jesus was claiming to be God there in that moment.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I think they knew he was, dude. I think that's what that parable is, where he says, you know, a man builds a. Builds a vineyard, puts everything there, puts some servants over it. It. Then he sends his servants to go there. He leases it out to them. He sends some servants to go there to collect, and they kill those servants. Then he sends some more. They kill those servants. Then he kills. Then he sends his son and they say, yo, if we kill him, we can keep everything. And I think he was telling them bluntly. He's saying bluntly, like, they knew Jesus was God, but their only mindset was the temporary realm, and they had this monopoly on God. And they're not going to let Jesus come in and take that over and, like, take over their money and their control and their power. Even though they knew he was God. They. They couldn't help it, man. They're like, we got to take him out.

[Kiana / Listener]

That's crazy.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I think they knew all along, man. I mean, they. They were in the scriptures.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, even the parable of, like, the. The owner of the vineyard.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Is if you go to Isaiah chapter 5, it is all about how he is. That they would know that Yahweh is the owner of the vineyard.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And so Jesus made so many claims, but of course, we, in 2,000 years from then, we view it through a different lens of like, maybe the word has changed and been polluted by man. Or it. Yeah. Like which one? Yeah. Isaiah chapter 5. That is the one about the. The parable of the vineyard or not the parable of the vineyard. Yeah, it is. Let me sing now for my well beloved A song of my beloved concerning. Concerning his vineyard. My well beloved loved had a vineyard on a fertile hill. He dug it all around, removed its stones and planted it with the choices vine. And he built a tower in the middle of it and also hewed out a wine that in it. And he expected it to produce good grapes, but it produced only worthless ones. And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, judge between me and my vineyard, what more was there to do for my vineyard that I have not done in it? Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes, did it produce worthless ones? And he's actually like, rebuking Israel right now, saying, like, I have given you access to me and yet somehow you have completely turned away from me. You have produced this sour wine that I did not. I did not enable you guys to produce. This is completely out of human heart.

[Casual Commentator]

Let me just say this, like, because I picked up an nasb, but this translation is another good example of, like. Okay, that makes a lot more sense because I've read this in the King James, and it's like, yeah, yeah. Very poetic and, like, flowing. But this is.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, you love the NASB now. I love that.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

Dude.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Dude, it's so good, man. I love this translation. We actually talked about Bible translations last episode too, just about how there is word for word, thought for thought, and paraphrase, which I don't recommend people going to paraphrase ways, because then you're not getting the word of God. You're getting somebody's commentary of the word of God. But word for word is. There's like a. It's like a graph or a. A dial where, like, the farthest left is the closest translation from the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic to the English translation. Because you. Like we were talking about there is a. There is a. A language barrier from Greek and Hebrew where, like, love means four different things in Greek.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Than it does was. And I love pizza. You know, like, stuff like that. And so word for word is. Is what I always encourage people to get into. Whichever translation that is, I'm gonna let the Lord lead that. But that's. That's what we were.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I was bringing that up to Raven before, and he was like, so which one has pictures?

[Kiana / Listener]

I would love to. No, we got action Bible for my son. That one has a lot of pictures. They're really great pictures.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

But yeah, I. In closing.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Closing. What's happening that.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

We just got started.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Top's been, like, maneuvering to you telling you two o'. Clock.

[Kiana / Listener]

It's two o'. Clock.

[Casual Commentator]

We're gonna help.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

We got time, dude.

[Kiana / Listener]

All right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

We're gonna sit here for a half hour.

[Casual Commentator]

It's your funeral. I mean, your show.

[Kiana / Listener]

Pastor Rick will choke you out.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

It's a celebration.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Five minutes, dude.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

All right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Did you want to say anything to people who say so. So why is he referred to as the angel of the Lord? Or do you think when the angel of the Lord shows up, up. Is that in fact Jesus? What's your take on that?

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

It depends on where. I. I actually don't know.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Fair. I like that Top don't say that in front of Top. He hates that. But yeah, I don't know. See, like, son of God, son of man, angel of the Lord. I don't. I don't know. For me, I don't. I don't know if I can even articulate it, but it's just like, he shows up as human of God. The Son of God is human of God.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

God.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

In other places, he shows up, like. I don't know how you would say this, like, as angel. Like, at, like, he's. He's entering in and out of realms, which, like, an angel can do, right? Yeah, yeah. Angels look like dudes anyway.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, not really. Not. Not biblically accurate angels.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Right, right, right.

[Kiana / Listener]

That's why I asked, like, that passage

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

where it says that, like, be careful entertaining strangers unaware.

[Kiana / Listener]

Sure.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Because sometimes you've entertained angels unaware.

[Kiana / Listener]

But if they're presenting it as what you perceive as a stranger, then they're not presenting as angels.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. So that's. That's where my speculation is. And the only thing that I can think of is that going back to that word.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So you're saying shape shifting. You're not saying. I mean, angels just look like humans. You're saying angels don't look.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, I'm also saying Satan is a fallen angel and he masquerades, meaning he covers or he conceals his true appearance as an angel of light, deceiving people into thinking that he is one way, but in reality he's a different. So I'm not.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

But don't we have, like, other passages where an angel shows up and they assume it's a human?

[Kiana / Listener]

Well, there's other passages where angels show up and they're like, don't be a about it. Because they're like, super. They're really freaked out, saying, fear not. Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

So do not be afraid.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Good point.

[Kiana / Listener]

But, you know, whatever they're experiencing is terrifying them.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Right.

[Kiana / Listener]

So they have to be.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

But I think it's even like Gideon's parents. An angel shows up. Up does, like. Does this whole thing. They may. They have a sacrifice on a rock, and then the angel, like, goes up. But they. But all the while they're talking about, like, it's a human. They're talking about, like, it's a man. And then even in just like. Like in Acts, what is there two men? It says two men that say, what are you guys so surprised about? The same way you saw Jesus

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

go.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

The same way he's gonna come back. It's like man and angels, kind of.

[Kiana / Listener]

There's also the Sodom and Gomorrah thing, right? Where.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Where yeah. Those two show up and look like humans. Yeah.

[Kiana / Listener]

I guess.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Just super attractive.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I'm thinking of the Book of Ezekiel where, like, he actually is the wheel within the wheel. Yeah. Like covering in eyes. Yeah. And then no wonder they're saying, do not be afraid. Their immediate reaction is, what the heck is that?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

Yeah.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I don't know. I just think that stuff is, like, something else.

[Kiana / Listener]

It's probably a little bit.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

To me, angels are always humans.

[Kiana / Listener]

Right.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Whatever that is. That. I just think there's a bunch of stuff in the spirit realm that we kind of generically use the.

[Kiana / Listener]

The.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

The. Freddy's angel.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. We think the angels are the little babies with wings.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. But there's tons of stuff in the spirit. Just like, there's a ton of stuff. A ton of stuff.

[Kiana / Listener]

Face of an oxen, face of a lion.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Seraphim has six wings, two that cover

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

his feet, two that covers horses and chariots of fire. Feel like it's eyes, its feet, and. And then two that they fly with.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I'm just saying, I think there's a bunch of stuff in that realm.

[Kiana / Listener]

Man, I'd be bummed out for. I mean, until it told me to calm down. Down. If a dude with, you know, three animal faces and a man face showed up, I'd be pretty stressed. Yeah.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Not.

[Kiana / Listener]

Not. Not cool, man.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

But, man, since. Since you're kind of jumping into this, man, I'd love to hear what kind of, like, sparked today. Like, what really stood out to you more than the rest since you weren't with us in the first part.

[Kiana / Listener]

Well, I mean, I like the idea that the first chunk of Hebrews is about laying out the lens. And this is something that we were talking about not long ago. The Nephilim, death, s. God, Bible study. It's really just the. The community getting together. And it was about the divinity of Christ and, you know, the Trinity, which I like how Matt says pretty often it's something that you're struggling to understand because we're limited. We're in this physical realm, and. And we're trying to understand the nature of. Of God who's, you know, outside of almost this entire experience, outside of time and space and, you know, not limited by the physical realm that we're in. So, of course we're going to struggle with it. I don't think there's anything wrong with struggling with it. But what we did that day was we were pulling up all of these references where, you know, it talks about, in the beginning, the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And then later on it says that Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. So, you know, you've got something here. But. But people will go back and forth and they'll say, well, who then was Jesus calling out to on the cross? And, you know, if he's doing the will of his Father, then how is this, you know? And I don't think there's, like I said anything wrong with trying to understand those things. In fact, I think that's a great place to be, is actually caring enough to try to understand those things. But I like that Hebrews, as soon as it starts off, it's like, yeah, this is the lens that you're going to look at this through. Elevated, higher than the angels. And it's just that reiteration over and over again of, like, you know, whatever you think about this, this, the angels don't have the titles and names that Jesus Christ has. They haven't been elevated to the position that he is. And so there's your framework for the whole thing.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

And.

[Kiana / Listener]

And I don't know. I mean, I know there are listeners of our own show who will still go back and forth with that, because there is still instances where you read it and it seems there's a separation, and then there's instances where you read something else and they are the same definitively. And. And I. I go, you know, this

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

is so intriguing, though, because, like, I Like, we. I think most of us read that and we're like, like, Jesus is better than angels. Like, yeah, no kidding.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah. Oh, no, for sure.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

What are you talking about? But what you're saying is so valid, dude. Like, we live in a day where. No, this is a very necessary conversation.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Like, there is. There is a lot of deception that's going to come from entities from another realm.

[Casual Commentator]

You want to know something stupid? David's a Dragon Ball Z enjoyer.

[Kiana / Listener]

Hell, yeah, I am.

[Casual Commentator]

Dude, it made a lot more sense when they had the scanners. And we can put, like, numbers that's over 9,000.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

Right.

[Casual Commentator]

But then things started to get a little bit. Little bit obscure once I was like, that guy's Super Saiyan 13.

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah. Didn't mean anything anymore.

[Casual Commentator]

The power.

[Kiana / Listener]

Like, he could destroy a planet. He could destroy a planet in the last two seasons.

[Casual Commentator]

Yeah. But here, they're like the Book of Hebrews. Like, these are the power levels.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Kiana / Listener]

This is like laying you out.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Casual Commentator]

Structure laid out. I love that. No more questions.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I'm always gonna. I'm gonna use that every time I talk about.

[Casual Commentator]

You gotta pay Me for it. Yeah.

[Kiana / Listener]

That's also weird, right? Jesus Christ. I mean, Jesus Christ Goku comes to earth, is the salvation of earth, and sacrifices himself. I don't want to talk about it. It's a great plot to pull from. Yeah, they all use it, right? Yeah, yeah, they do, because it's a banger.

[Casual Commentator]

Matt's like, I don't know what this is. Just Beaver, Justin Bieber.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

No, but I just wanted to tell Panda and kind of let everybody know that Gavin, right here. I don't know if you got a camera on Gavin. This is the new intern. Yeah, he's crushing this right here.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Let's go.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

So this is Aiden's buddies. So this is homie jj. It's my son's friends. Jj.

[Kiana / Listener]

Somebody said, who are these silent dudes in the background?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Always been. Yeah, Panda was asking, so. But. But everybody needs to know Gavin because he's the. He's the new intern, man. He's crushing. Yeah, dude. He' also, he's got a Tik Tok going. So if you guys play Tik Tok, go get on the straight Bible.

[Kiana / Listener]

Tik Tok Gavin the intern.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

You want to say anything about the Tik Tok or anything or, like, tell people to follow or say comments? It's straight Bible. It should pop up.

[Kiana / Listener]

Oh, oh, on Tik Tok.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Oh, you're good.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

You're good. Do it from there.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, go follow the Tik Tok. We're trying to grow it a little more, reach more people.

[Kiana / Listener]

So he's just scared because he spent the whole, like, hour before the show being like, can I come on the show? And Matt's like, you absolutely can't not come up on the show.

[Casual Commentator]

Is this all right?

[Kiana / Listener]

Am I okay to do this?

[Casual Commentator]

I like. I like with the. The audience. It's kind of cool.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah, yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's chill, man.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I think that there is. I think it's. I think it's really cool, though, to bring us back that it pleased the Father to feel the sun with the Godhead bodily. That's Colossians 1:15, 20 and Colossians 2, 9. We talked about that. But since the. The premise of Jesus's existence predating his incarnation, it was by the grace of God and within his will that Jesus would actually taste death.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And I think that that has pleased him. Yeah.

[Casual Commentator]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's huge. Yeah. I think that we. Because we hear that God delights in us. We, you know, he rejoices over us with singing. And we don't. We don't view such a powerful being having such like human like emotions. I mean that's the, the 10 cent word for the day for that is anthropomorphism. That is essentially how we describe God in a way that helps us relate to him better as human beings. And the, the reality of the, the fact is like God gave us these emotions and we were created in the image of God to actually lean into. And like we were talking about that emotions are terrible masters, but they're wonderful servants which make agape love so personal and real. Similarly, it pleased the Father. If you go to Isaiah 53.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Heavy, bro. It is like the most heavy section in the whole book.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I know, but the thing is like I think this, if, if I had to teach something for the rest of my life, it would be Isaiah 53. That is just the straight gospel.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

It's more, it's like articulates it more clearly than the gospels even do. What's happening on the cross? Yeah, it's crazy. It's the end of 52, it's the end of 52 rolling straight into 53. It's just like the most wild, the suffering servant here. It's just, it's just like if you read that and say, oh, there's another way to God other than through Jesus. I just think that you're saying that you're saying something crazy. You're saying like, then why did we do this? Like if there was any other way to God, if there was any other way for humans to be won back to God, then why in the world did we do the cross? This was a heinous sin. This was a heinous suffering and torturous bloody death for Jesus. So if there's any other way, then that's, then that's heinous man.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And here I'll start at verse 7 and I'll go to 10. Isaiah 53, 7, 10. It says, he was oppressed and he was afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth like a lamb that that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before it shearers. So he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away and asked for his generation who considered that he was cut out of the land of the living for the transgression of my people. Us Israel in that time, to whom the stroke was due. His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet he was with a rich man in his death, Joseph Vera Mathea. Because he had done no violence, nor was there any deceit in his mouth. And this is the part. This is the part. But the Lord was pleased to crush him, putting him to grief. If he would render himself as a guilt offering, he. He will see his offspring. He will prolong his days, and the good pleasure of the Lord will prosper in his hands. And going back to what we were talking about in Hebrews, chapter one of. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions. And. And you, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens and the works of your hands. Not only did he do all this with the hands and with the spoken word, but he also crushed his son with it.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And it pleased him to do that.

[Casual Commentator]

That.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

It's the only way to get us back from the dead man.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's right. That's right. It was. And I don't. I don't know why that's so heavy on my heart right now.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Like, shouldn't that shake our life? Shouldn't that change? Like, how are you saying you're a Christian and you've come to terms with that? That it pleased God the Father to crush him because that was the only way to buy us back from the dead? But your life just looks like everybody else. How's that even possible? It's not even possible. How does it not look like, oh, here you go, God, here's my life. Do whatever you want with it. Like, I'm on borrowed time. It's not my life anymore.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

What is it?

[Casual Commentator]

Who.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Who said this? I don't think it was CS Lewis, NT Wright. I don't think it was NT right either. But it said Dallas Willard, it doesn't matter. It says, the grace that does not change my life will not save my soul. Meaning that the.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

That was the Raven. Yeah. Amen.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Amen. I think that same way as Jesus

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

saying, you'll know them by their fruit.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah. I think that the. The revelation that Jesus is fully God, that he's higher than the angels, that he. That he has inherited a better name than any angelic being or any realm or ruler of darkness, wherever it is, any God of this age, any crystal, any frequency, any tarot card, any magic or any form of voodoo, anything, any dark principality, that the name of Jesus reigns and rules above it all because he has received a much better name and an excellent name, and that is Yahweh himself, and that he is now seated at the right hand of God. And it just. Again, it just. I'm so stuck on the fact that it pleased the Father to crush the Son that God made. Like whenever we read that God made him who knew no sin be sin for us, so that in him we might become. Become the righteousness of God. Like I was saying, Jesus Christ is the only righteous one. And the only way for us to actually experience that or go into that is to be, is just to pass through under the. The crushing of the Son through the blood. And without the spilling of blood or without the. The remission of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. Meaning that Jesus truly did have to die, but it pleased the Father to do so. Similarly, like in Hebrews chapter 12, verse 2. Like Jesus Christ looking under Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy set before him, endured the cross, that joy is. Is synonymous with the pleasure that the Father had in crushing the Son, that we would be adopted into that for.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

So you're saying Jesus endured the cross, despising the shame for the joy that was set before him. In the same way, the Father was pleased at it. They. They both as rough as it. Because imagine Jesus going through it. Imagine you going through it. But imagine watching your son go through. Yeah, so it's the worst. Think about that. Yeah. Imagine watching your son. Like you'd be like, no, I'd rather be crucified than watch my son get crucified. So imagine they're both going through something that hard, but they're both happy, they're both joyous about it. They're both pleased. They're saying, we're going to win these humans back from the dead man.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, not only that too, but if we go back to just verse one, God, after he spoke long ago to the fathers and the prophets, he foreshadowed that in Isaiah 53.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And not only that, but now that the revelation, again ito the revelation has actually become flesh. He has lived out the words that were portrayed in Isaiah 53. Yeah. That not only was it a joy in theory, but it was a joy in practice as well. And I think that that is the same theme throughout. And it cannot, I cannot stress the fullness of the work that Jesus portrayed on the cross. Like there, there was nothing. Lacking nothing.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Yeah.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Not one. Not one piece. Go ahead.

[Casual Commentator]

I don't want to interrupt or like, bring the conversation somewhere else, but when it says that he would if he would render himself.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

So yeah, I'll pull the scripture back up.

[Casual Commentator]

If he would render himself as a guilt offer offering, it really just adds more complexity to the idea of the Trinity being this three in One, but also three completely separate things, like if he would. So it's like, it implies, did he have the. Did he have the ability to. Just not like he did.

[Kiana / Listener]

It's like when he asked if the cup could pass him, right?

[Casual Commentator]

Like, yeah, yeah, but he's asking. It's just so confusing, right?

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

He's asking.

[Kiana / Listener]

He's.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

He's making it clear right there. There's no other way to God.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, if you go to John, chapter five, verse 30,

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

whoops. He's saying, God, if there's any other way to do this, let's. Let's do the plan B. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And God the Father's saying, like, bro, there's no plan B, man.

[Casual Commentator]

You know, it pleases me.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Oh, yes. Okay. Jesus to crush you.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

This is Jesus. And he's saying, I can do nothing on my own initiative. As I hear, I judge and my judgment is just because I do not seek my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

That's his life in one sin.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's it. And that and even jumping to Hebrews, chapter 10, we can go to verse four and read on. It says, for it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, when he comes into the world. He says, therefore, when he comes into the world, predating incarceration, again, sacrifices and offering you have not desired, but a body you have prepared for me again predates incarnation in whole, burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin. You have taken no pleasure measure. Then I said, behold, I have come to do your will, O God. Going Back to Psalm 40, verses 7 through 8, here we go again with the substance or the shadow of things. I'm sorry, y', all, I'm nerding out right now. Psalm 47 through 8. Then I said, behold, I come in the scroll of the book. It is written of me. I delight to do your will. Oh, my God. Your laws within my heart. Oh, my goodness, I'm about to nurse out. All right. Substance, a shadow of things to come. But the sub. Excuse me. A shadow of things to come is the Old Testament, but the New Testament to the person of Jesus Christ. It is the substance, the things that fulfilled. David said, I delight to do your will. Jesus said, I have come to do your will. Meaning that in theory and in practice, right? Information, transformation, Old Testament, New Testament, huge delineation, y'. All Picking up what I'm putting down?

[Kiana / Listener]

Yeah, trying and doing.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Well, not just. Not only that, but David is a picture of Jesus. He is in a part of the lineage of Christ He's a picture of Christ and that he was the best king that Israel had until Jesus Christ. And now we have a forever reigning and ruling king and high priest. But the thing that I'm getting at is David is saying, I delight to do your will. He couldn't because he was still under the sacrifice of bulls and goats. Jesus, he came and he fulfilled it. He fulfilled the will of the Father. Not only that, but he could. He was the only one that could do it. So the subs or the shadow, I keep getting those things mixed up, y'.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

All.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

The shadow is a picture of David, but the substance is in the person of Christ. Because David us put us in that. In that state, we could never.

[Kiana / Listener]

We would.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

We delight in doing God's will. Whenever our hearts are aligned with the Father, we want to please it him because we know that that is where our full identity and all the fruits of the Spirit come from, when we're aligned with Him. But we could never fulfill the law because we had fallen. Isaiah 51. Because I. I said this last time, but I never read it or Psalm 51. Sorry, I'm all over the place, y'.

[Orderly Meds Announcer]

All.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

I'm sorry. I'm just gonna. We're just freestyling now. Behold, verse five. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity and in sin my mother conceived by me. We could never. We could never fulfill what Jesus did. No angel could ever fulfill what Jesus did. And that, that's the crazy thing, is that whenever God wanted to save the world, he didn't send a man, he didn't send a woman, he didn't send an angel, he didn't send an animal. He sent his son because he was the only one that was going to be able to do it.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

Amen.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

And so what I'm getting at is that David delighted in doing the will of God because it was his Spirit on David that enabled him to do it. But like we talked about last episode, that Jesus had to die for us to receive the Spirit, he had to go. He had to ascend at the right hand of the Father so that the helper would come.

[Kiana / Listener]

But.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

But David delighted in Jesus fulfilled. So I just. I just.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

No, that's good, bro. That's heavy, man.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

That's like popping.

[Otis Fowler (Host/Teacher)]

I love what you're saying is like, you know, there was this law that there was to live under. But if anything, the law just showed us that you can't live under the law. Like, you can only fulfill obedience to God by his grace, by his Spirit inside of you. Like you're not going to do it in your own strength. All right, we got to wrap it up because Top's getting a little antsy. So we just want to thank everybody for coming. I don't know if you want to close out with anything, Otis, or if you guys want to say anything in closing or. We'll just wrap this thing up, man. Where.

[Matt (Host/Teacher)]

Where am I? There we go. All right. The only thing that I would close on is just. Is pointing to the fulfilled, finished work of Jesus Christ. That he was fully God, fully man, and the work is fully finished. That in the beginning, God created this perfect design out of love, which is you, you. But in our perfect design, like we talked about, we were born into a broken, sinful and fallen world. And we were kicked out of that perfect design. And now what do we try to do with stuff when we're broke and we try to fix it? Well, how do we as human beings try to fix it? Through sex, money, drugs, alcohol, success. We chase after these vices to fill a God shaped hole in our heart with human shaped desires. And we wonder why we're always left empty. God knew he had this. He had the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world. World. His intelligence is already there and it's immeasurable. So what he did was he sent his son Jesus down to earth in the flesh and he died on the cross whenever he paid. Whenever he died on the cross, he paid for your sin. And he rose again on the third day. And in doing so, he opened up a doorway back for you to enter a relationship with him. And how do we receive that? Through the process of repentance, through turning away from our sin, picking up our cross and following after him. Jesus says, I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father, Father, except through me. When we answer that call, we get restored and redeemed back into the relationship that we have with our Father before the foundation of the world. And in doing so, we become a new creation. The Bible would say that if anybody is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old is gone and the newest here. And there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. The blood of Jesus is the final work. That is, we no longer have a barrier that is separating us from our Father in heaven. And the only, the only thing that is stopping us now from a relationship with God is the decision that we have today to do so. So if you guys have heard the good news today, and I pray that you would mix it with faith and that the gospel would not land on fallow ground but you would actually do something with this information. It's a lot of fun and I love getting to talk with these guys but more importantly my heart is for the loss to come home so maybe if you have been running away from Jesus or maybe you don't have a relationship with Him I pray that if you're under the sound of my voice that the the deceiver would not be able to come and take the seed that has been planted that you would act that the Lord would send somebody to water it or in this moment that the scales of your eyes would fall off and that you would be restored in your relationship with the Father in heaven because he loves you he is not a distance active and impersonal and intimate and he cares deeply about you and he wants all of his children to come home he wishes none would perish but all to come to repentance and come to the knowledge that his son is is enough.