Our Family Knows We're Crazy w/ Mark Steeves

Summary

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Episode Summary: "Our Family Knows We're Crazy"

Nephilim Death Squad w/ Mark Steeves
Date: March 25, 2026
Host: TopLobsta Productions (David L Corbo & Top Lobsta)
Guest: Mark Steeves (My Family Thinks I'm Crazy Podcast)

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode of Nephilim Death Squad reunites hosts David L Corbo and Top Lobsta with their longtime friend, Mark Steeves, host of the "My Family Thinks I'm Crazy" podcast. True to the show’s subversive, comedic, and research-heavy style, the discussion dives deep into the overlapping topics of celebrity culture, spiritual warfare, the Jeffrey Epstein files, MKUltra / Project Monarch mind control, the occult, the UFO phenomenon, and their intersections with current events. Layered throughout are personal anecdotes, dark humor, and meta-commentary on the state of public consciousness and truth-seeking.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

1. Catching Up with Mark Steeves

• Time Stamp: 03:30
• Mark describes his life post-podcast and his forays into flea-market trading and upcycling as ways to "get outside the system."
• He points out the value of face-to-face interactions and the parallel of alternative economies with alternative research.

2. Epstein Files & Cultural Saturation

• Time Stamp: 07:01 – 13:29
• Central Thesis: The recent "Epstein email releases" are more about connecting everyone tangentially to Epstein than about hard evidence—creating a "potpourri" for conspiracy theorists (“It's more like a chew toy.” – David, 07:29).
• Epstein’s connections pop up across a dizzying variety of fields, from academics to musicians to celebrities, making the "files" so sprawling that almost anybody can be linked:

  “All of his research and people that he’s connected to starts coming up in the Epstein files as well... everybody and their mother is connected somehow.” (Top Lobsta, 09:04)

• Example: Rupert Sheldrake, known for research on psychic phenomena, is linked via funding from Epstein (10:31 – 11:12).

3. MKUltra, Project Monarch, & Mass Mind Control

• Time Stamp: 13:29 – 25:52
• Mark and the hosts discuss the lineage from Project MKUltra to what conspiracy researchers call "Project Monarch"—a term largely popularized by victims and writers like Cathy O'Brien.
• Levels of Programming: Alpha (memory division), Beta (sexualization), Gamma (misdirection), Delta (assassin), Theta (psychic killers), Omega (self-destruction) (32:14 – 34:57).
• Epstein is viewed as a product—maybe even a victim—of this system, possibly intentionally selected as a "Manchurian Candidate” from childhood (26:45 – 29:12).
• The cultural impact theory: Public trauma and hyper-sexualization through music and media as engineered mind-control, putting “the population at large…under a trance” (Mark, 20:25).
• Humor as meta-commentary:

  “We started calling them free-range MKUltra chickens...” (David, 23:11)

4. Skepticism, Psyops, and the Current Information War

• Time Stamp: 35:15 – 43:19
• Mark and the hosts reflect on the meta-psyop: Is the release of conspiratorial information real “truth” or manufactured chaos intended to manipulate the populace's worldview?
• Mark: “The truth is never plainly stated in the media. They use information in terms of warfare these days.” (Mark, 37:45)
• The “conspiracy bottleneck”:

  “Everyone is kind of now…shouldering, like, I mean, no one’s being rude, but everyone’s kind of like, ‘yeah, my thing…might be it’...It’s going to be important which angle we’re all looking at it from.” (Top Lobsta, 42:54)

5. Aliens, Demons, and Technological Deception

• Time Stamp: 50:46 – 73:37
• Mark asserts: “Aliens are fake and gay.” (Mark, 50:46) – meaning that much of what is called ‘alien abduction’ is actually covert military and occult operations masked as ET phenomena, citing Jim Keith’s research.
• The hybridization program, cattle mutilations, and the possibility of “entities” that are not extraterrestrial but rather spiritual (demonic/interdimensional) in nature are debated.
• Notable point: Technological advances and “disclosures” are seen as tools for conditioning public belief, not genuine revelations.

6. The Psychological Fallout of Disclosure

• Time Stamp: 91:10 – 94:57
• Dissecting how older generations (“boomers”) might react should wide-scale disclosure of deep corruption occur:

  “But what Topher mentioned was that, yeah, dude, there’s a whole chunk of the population…that when this veil gets torn to the side, like, those people are just gonna die.” (David, 91:10)

• Trauma as a mass tool and the generational divide in coping mechanisms and complicity.

7. Occult, Technology, & the Unsolved Mysteries

• Time Stamp: 67:15 – 86:57
• Linking black helicopter sightings and cattle mutilations as evidence that "alien" activities may really be ritual abuse and occult operations. (Mark referencing Jim Keith, 67:15)
• Discussion of Linda Moulton Howe and other ufologists as sometimes unwitting (or witting) vectors for government disinformation campaigns.

8. Meta & Personal Reflections

• Time Stamp: 100:28 – End
• Mark and the hosts ponder the fun, or lack thereof, of being a full-time researcher and truthteller:

  “Are you having fun?”
  “Oh, yeah...I do podcasts like this with you guys…life’s going good.” (Mark, 100:42)

• Mark concludes with tales from the flea markets, the thrill of the weird, and an embrace of curiosity despite the darkness in their subject matter.

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• On Epstein’s Ubiquity:
  • “It’s not really the smoking gun that a lot of people think. It’s more like a chew toy…He’s associated with like, every conspiracy under the sun, which is weird.” (David, 07:29 – 08:05)
• On Research Plagiarism:
  • “The nature of non-fiction in general, right? Like, I don’t think anyone has ownership over the truth…if our goal is to uplift each other…we shouldn’t take authorship of the truth.” (Mark, 14:29)
• On Project Monarch:
  • “Project Monarch is interesting because it’s not necessarily an official term…It comes from victims of this type of mind control.” (Mark, 14:53)
• On Mass Mind Control:
  • “They’re manufacturing culture to an unbelievable degree. And the very people that they’re using…are themselves victims.” (David, 23:11 – 24:02)
• On Trauma as an Entryway:
  • “Trauma seems to be the doorway, which is what the MKUltra program figured out too.” (David, 64:42)
• On Disclosure Skepticism:
  • “I looked at the Epstein files like a plot device, and you wouldn’t release them until you were ready for whatever the next thing is.” (David, 88:28)

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TIMESTAMPS FOR KEY SEGMENTS

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|---------------| | Catch-up & Mark’s new ventures | Alternative economy, podcasts, lifestyle | 03:30 – 06:13 | | The sprawling Epstein files | Scope, implications, examples | 07:01 – 13:29 | | Project Monarch/MKUltra lineage | Levels of programming, cultural patterns | 13:29 – 34:57 | | Psyop Season and info-warfare reflections | What’s real, what’s manipulation | 35:15 – 43:19 | | Bottleneck of worldviews in “the end times” | Religious & conspiratorial crosscurrents | 42:54 – 45:22 | | Aliens as cover, not reality | Keith’s Saucers of the Illuminati, abductions | 50:46 – 58:57 | | Technology, UFOlogy, disinfo | CIA PSYOPs, black helicopters, Howe | 67:15 – 80:07 | | Boomer psych collapse & generational trauma | Boomer complicity, psychological reckoning | 91:10 – 94:57 | | The “Are you having fun?” segment | Podcasting philosophy, personal reflection | 100:28 – End |

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CLOSING REFLECTIONS

• Mark Steeves and the hosts affirm that even as the information environment grows more chaotic and dark, life’s “weirdness” compels curiosity and creative engagement. The present era may be bleak for the status quo, but it’s rich for those willing to look beneath the surface.
• Importantly, the episode maintains the humorous, iconoclastic tone of NDS: oscillating between hard research, extreme skepticism, and the necessity of laughing at the world’s madness.

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For new listeners:
This episode is a masterclass in blending conspiracy research, biblical worldview, and comedy. It’s a must-listen for those interested in the intersection of spiritual deception, hidden networks, and the cascading effect of mass disclosures—delivered through the unique, irreverent voice of the Nephilim Death Squad.

Transcript

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic and it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[C]

The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We do it gaming team take on Gilly The King Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right now. Globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.

[E]

Spin it. Top Lobster Productions. They never went away.

[F]

They're still here today. Level Up Death Squad. When the last trumpet sounds and the heavens crack. Nebulum Death Squad. Nebulum. Despot. Despot. Despot. That spot. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven, that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get into today's guests, a little reminder where you can Support the boys. Patreon.com/now/nephilim death Squad. A treasure trove of content. A lot of backlog stuff. At any given moment, we're like, I don't know, maybe four, five, six episodes behind. We're recording practically every day.

[E]

So if you know what I think we are. You told me to do stuff on YouTube.

[F]

You didn't do it.

[E]

I forgot.

[F]

That's all right. Who gives a crap?

[E]

We do whatever we wanted. Merch.

[G]

We're our own.

[F]

We're our own bosses. If you're. If your content hole is yearning for content, then patreon.com/nephilim death Squad is a great way to fill it. You'll get early access, unedited versions, first dibs on tickets to Bohemian Grove whenever the that happens, and discount codes off of merchandise from top lobster.com where we're certainly going to be selling, I would imagine these 3D printed.

[E]

Oh yeah, we'll just go full screen real quick.

[F]

Yeah, let's show off these things. Bang. Look at that guy. Check that out. Where are you gonna get one of

[E]

those 3D prints that I did last night?

[F]

So. Right.

[E]

Go to toplops.com soon and check for that. That's going to be available. It's going to be really cool. We have a great guest today.

[F]

Joining us today is Mark of My Family thinks I'm Crazy podcast. Welcome back, Mark.

[E]

It's been OG friend of the show. It's been a while. It's like I feel like we just go and do our own thing and

[D]

it's been a while.

[F]

Don't do that since I can.

[E]

Mark,

[F]

how you been, dude? It's good to see you.

[G]

I feel serenaded. That's the sound of my generation right there.

[F]

Hell yeah.

[G]

Rocking in my childhood to that, dude.

[F]

I've been on this kick lately where I've been listening to a lot of like 90s, pretty much like 90s rock. And it's been nice. Before we get into our love for nostalgic rock, let's tell everybody where they can find you, Mark, and what it is that you do.

[G]

Well, thanks for having me. Glad to be back on the show. I remember when you guys started and I'm happy to see all the awesome stuff you guys have pulled off. I think when we first did the show, you guys were not in the same room. You guys were in separate locations.

[F]

No, we're still in separate locations now. We're in the same room.

[G]

A banging ass studio. Very cool. So. But I'm Mark from my family thinks I'm crazy. True statement. And the name of the podcast I've been hosting for about five years now. And yeah, I'm on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, as you see there, Instagram. And yeah, thanks for having me back. I've been kind of researching some interesting stuff but also taking time away from the podcast as well to get into What I think will be maybe the next phase of where I'm going with my life definitely connected in some ways to the podcast stuff. But what are you getting into?

[F]

What is that? What does that mean? What the hell's going on?

[E]

Yeah. Are you leaving?

[G]

No, no, no, no. The podcast is what it is. But I just over. Over the past, you know, interviews and whatnot, I've talked to a lot of people who have found ways to get outside of the system. And lately I've been just upcycling, trading, reselling, and doing all kinds of work in that realm, going to markets, flea markets and all that. And it's really interesting. It's. It's like a different economy. It's not black market, obviously, but it's definitely face to face with people. And after working, you know, with this podcast behind a computer screen, it's a nice addition to the podcast is basically what I'm. What I'm getting into. And things.

[F]

Are you refurbishing?

[G]

Well, I like to collect weird shit that I could resell. So it all depends on, you know, what's out there and what's interesting, like clocks and chairs and couches and weird art and T shirts. But, yeah, I mean, I don't know how interesting all that is for the podcast, but alongside of that, I feel like there are definitely some rabbit holes that have emerged that aren't quite ready yet. But, yeah, there's definitely some strange stuff developing in my personal life with the art and all the things I do aside from the podcast. But as far as the podcast goes, I mean, the Epstein email release, I hate to say documents, because they're really just emails.

[F]

Yeah.

[G]

That's brought forth a lot of compelling stuff. And that recently is what I've been consumed with. And before that, I was looking into Jim Keith's books, and there's a lot of overlap between what Jim Keith was writing about in the 90s and what has come out about Epstein and all of his intriguing criminal enterprises that he was involved with. So, yeah, there's a lot of stuff we could talk about.

[F]

Well, I definitely want to talk about the Epstein stuff. And I think you're right when you say it's really just emails. Right. We're not dealing with convictions, we're not dealing with actual evidence. And even the terminology, like the Epstein files, which is a term that we've kind. We've come to use as anything that's released that's associated with Epstein. And I guess in the strictest sense, it is files, right? It is files. But it's not really the smoking gun that a lot of people think that it is. It's more like a chew toy.

[E]

It's like a potpourri for whatever you want to see, I guess.

[F]

Which is actually maybe the point, because it seems like every time you look into these emails, you'll find that Epstein was connected, you know, either directly or in a sort of. How many people removed from Kevin Bacon? What's the expression? Yeah, seven degrees or six degrees from Kevin Bacon. He's seven. He's associated with, like, every conspiracy under the sun, which is weird.

[E]

We found him. We found him almost associated with, like, some beef that we were going through. So little heads up to everybody. I was talking with Sam and you. You booked us again on Tinfoil Hat, coming up very soon, but we were going through some weird beef with the fake archaeologist, and then it turns out

[F]

he's a very real archaeology. How dare you?

[E]

That's not true. And I wouldn't defame somebody if he was a real archaeologist.

[F]

Fine.

[E]

But not the point. Not the point, David. The point is, is that all of his research and people that he's connected to starts coming up in the Epstein files as well.

[F]

And.

[E]

And if we were better people, if we were worse people, we would have started really pointing fingers. But I'm like, no, everybody and their mother is in here. Yeah, everybody and their mother is connected somehow.

[F]

Yep. And it's just.

[E]

It's. It's bizarre.

[F]

Yeah. One of the ones that I. I keep bringing up. I wonder if you ever had an opportunity to talk to this guy, Mark. Rupert Sheldrake.

[G]

No, I'm very aware of his books. And I wonder, you know, I. I remember, like, 10, 12 years ago, someone I'm associated with who has a podcast interviewed him. But I don't know, he seems like an old man. I don't know if he's doing interviews lately.

[F]

I think he is doing interviews. He declined to come on our show, but I don't blame him. And he probably watched it. He probably watched it, was, what the fuck is this? But he's got a fascinating body of work, and our audience is familiar with it.

[E]

But I'm gonna go, by the way, Mark was on, like, episode eight or some shit like that.

[F]

Is it that long ago?

[E]

It was, yeah.

[F]

The cool people who said yes to us very early, unlike Rupert Sheldrake.

[E]

Huge mistake.

[F]

Always huge mistake on their behal. But so, you know, he's got this body of work where he studies the psychic phenomenon in ways that are really familiar to the average Person. Two examples I like to give is when you're thinking of a song and then your significant other starts singing that song. He documents that as. As tangible psychic phenomenon. Another one is a famous experiment he did with pets where he would record house pets.

[E]

How quick it takes them to lick

[F]

peanut butter off of his. No, no, no, no. He never did that one. That wasn't. That wasn't him. But it was, you know, this idea that 15 minutes before you come home from work or whatever, doesn't matter if you switch up the variable of time. So there's no predictability. Your pet will become anxious and it'll go to the window and it'll wake up from its sleep and it'll start to go around the house. And then, you know, shortly after that, you'll arrive home. That guy, you know, it's a bummer to say, but he was receiving. We found out through this Epstein files. He's receiving funding from EPSTEIN from like 2015 to 2018, which. Which is a bummer because.

[E]

Yeah, I guess Mark didn't even see this. There's something in there for everyone.

[F]

For everybody.

[G]

Rupert Sheldrake, you're saying was funded by Epstein?

[F]

It seems that way. So there's a correspondence, as a matter of fact.

[E]

Like, the reason that we. On that we untangled that thread is because, like, we were big on the Telepathy tapes. We were on Tinfoil Hat talking about the Telepathy tapes a little bit a long time ago. And what's her name? Diane. I forget her. Her last name.

[F]

She's one of Foster, is it?

[E]

No, she's. She's like a co producer. What was that?

[G]

Never mind. I was thinking of somebody else, but yeah, if they're the Telepathy takes. It's not somebody. It's not the person I'm thinking of.

[E]

She's a co producer of the Telepathy tapes. She's also one of the main scientists that is. Is involved with all the research that's going on with the doctor.

[G]

Diana Pasulka, then.

[F]

That's her. Yeah.

[E]

Is that her name?

[F]

No, no, no.

[E]

Pasulka is the lady that looks into aliens.

[F]

That's not the same bitch. No, different lady. Woman.

[E]

I wanted to say her. Her name too, but. No, it's a different lady. And I'm gonna remember anyway. She's. She's in the emails as well as receiving funds from Epstein through. I think, like Gupta. What's his name?

[F]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I just laughed that.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, Deepak Chopra, like that. But they're Getting it through a college and I'm like, this is just bizarre. So that's going to the Telepathy tapes in some sort of way. Epstein's in. Involved with that.

[F]

He's fascinated with that.

[E]

It's just there's something for everybody.

[F]

Yep.

[G]

Yeah. Well, I think what I'm about to say might offer some sort of connection point to where some of that might make sense. And not all of this is. Is stuff that I am originally bringing to the table. You guys might be aware of mind unveiled, the YouTube channel, they're going through the Epstein stuff and they've put out so far a five part series on what they found. They're connecting it pretty heavily to Project Monarch. And that's coincidentally what I was already looking into. And adjacent subjects that Jim Keith writes about. Right. So that's where what I'm about to say comes into. And not original research in any way. And quite frankly, I don't want to be known for original research in this realm because Jim Keith died under suspicious circumstances and I'm sure many people have been killed or offed because of this whole Epstein thing, so.

[F]

Well, just as an aside, before we go into that, I want to say if you're going to be the purveyor of original research, it helps. I'm not saying that we are at all, but it helps to smear your reputation to such a degree that people will label you an. A racist any, any number of things. That way you can. You already did it to yourself. If the people show up and they listen, they might find some, some nuggets of truth. But otherwise, once you paint yourself as an authority who's to be taken seriously, then you got a problem. Also.

[G]

I think I'm covering my bases by being on this show though.

[F]

Yeah, you're doing all right. You're doing just fine.

[E]

Fuck you, Mark. I do want to say to guys that probably Mark knows, if you want to do original research too, like you have to be really comfortable with the idea of somebody stealing your research or repeating it after you've done it or doing it better than you.

[G]

The nature of non fiction in general, right? Like I don't think anyone has ownership over the truth, you know, and if, if our goal is to uplift each other and elevate what we know as a collective, as a human population, whatever that may be, then yeah, we shouldn't take ownership or authorship of the truth. And I think, you know, non fiction in that realm. All you got to do is cite your sources. I think that's when it becomes a problem is when people don't cite their sources, people get upset and it does come off as plagiarism. Me, on a podcast, I do my best to try to be like this. I heard from this person, and so on, so forth. So I got the receipts. But anyways, with Epstein, it seems like he is a continuation of Project Monarch. And Project Monarch is interesting because it's not necessarily an official term used by the government. There is no Project Monarch in terms of, you know, what government documents will tell you. There's Project MK Ultra. There's adjacent subjects that fall under that umbrella. But really, Project Monarch is a term that comes from victims of this type of mind control. I think Kathy o' Brien is the one who popularized the term with her book Transformation of America. But it seems like based on a lot of the statements that have come out from victims, including some of the ones that, like I said, have died under suspicious circumstances, I think Virginia Guthrie is the most recent one, right? Something dead or.

[E]

Or kidnapped.

[G]

I could be thinking of somebody else, but it was a blonde woman who was very vocal about her relationship with, you know, being a victim of Epstein's criminal, you know, ongoing, you know, pursuits, however you want to label. It's very murky because essentially what I'm getting to here is that it seems like Jeffrey Epstein was interested in using women not only for these blackmail schemes, but to create clones of some kind. Humans altered to some degree. And if you look into the, you know, MK Ultra stuff, that is the intention to some degree with that research is to create a situation where someone will be an unwitting agent of your agenda and then their memory or will be wiped so they have no culpability. And they could be a perfect Manchurian Candidate as the term is. Right.

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and My how we do It Gaming team take on Gilly The King Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right [e-mail] that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.

[G]

Now, Project Monarch, again, not an official government project, but a term used. And I could be. I could be wrong about that. I mean, again, this is coming from Mind Unveiled, not my own research. Because there's. There's a lot of, you know, different terms that get thrown around. Bluebird, you know, Mockingbird. There's a lot of different. Right. Artichoke. Right. There's a lot of different projects. I think that is just part of the protocol is to keep things confusing for people like us who are trying to piece things together.

[F]

But I just want to say that the. The Project Monarch angle, I think the reason that it became solidified in sort of the conspiracy zeitgeist is because a lot of these MK Ultra like victims would be. You would see all their characteristics in, you know, famous people, Britney Spears, etc, and whenever they do their kind of symbolism. Exactly. So and which is the hemispheres of the brain. A lot of people think it's one thing or another.

[E]

I went on, they. They were saying that Andrew Tate had a monarch.

[F]

He does, yeah. He had a big one on his chest.

[E]

Interesting.

[F]

It's super gay. And so the idea is that the wings of the butterfly represent the hemispheres of the brain. And that a lot of this disassociative states that are induced by trauma have to do with like, let's say like the binaural beats CE5. One of the things you can do to achieve this secondary state, or at least manipulate the brain chemistry of the victim is hemi syncing. Right. This is the Monroe Institute or the Gates program. Binaural beats that sync up the hemispheres of the brain and unlock, you know, I guess either different experiences or psychic abilities or something to that effect. But I think that that is why it became so, I guess, kind of like iconic in conspiracy spheres is because, yeah, to your point, Mark, they're using that symbolism in all the music videos and all the movies and everything. So whether or not it's an actual government program called Operation Monarch, it certainly was a symbol that they saw fit to inundate us with while we were watching MK Ultra victims perform right.

[E]

Well.

[G]

And if you think about the time when Epstein was likely most active, when his influence was gaining momentum, it was around that same era that I imagine you guys, I think around the same age as I. We kind of grew up with this like early 2000s, like ultra pop, sexualized everything kind of. And that symbolism is not only a part of it, but it seems to be, again, the research behind it is a lot scarier than just, you know, oh, we are, you know, using this to, to gain political influence and control politicians, getting them to do debaucherous, depraved, disgusting even things in order, you know, have control over them. It seems like, again, not my original research, but it seems like it's larger than that. The idea is to create a situation where the public at large degenerates to that state. So not only do these things become easier to, to pull off, but victims are, you know, more willing to become victims. Really. What? Maybe without their knowledge of it. Right? Like, think about these young women. They're being cajoled into these situations and obviously there were children involved in. And that's disgusting. But when it comes to women, let's say 18 to 25, who are getting put in these human trafficking situations, they're being told that they're going to become, you know, models or you know, music influencers, right? They're, they're being sold this sort of. And to some extent the celebrities that were popular in that time were used in those ways. Look at what we're seeing happening with P. Diddy and everything coming out around him. Obviously that stuff was not just happening in the music industry, but people were willing to look the other way more, more times than not. Right? So this is not just a one time event with certain criminals. This is a culture of debauchery and degeneration that, that's being proliferated not only to create a situation where again, those victims are more easily trafficked, excuse me, trafficked and put in those situations, but the population at large is put under a certain trance to act that way, to behave in such a way that again, allows that criminal behavior to become allowed on a societal level.

[F]

This is actually what we started calling free range MK Ultra victims or free range MK Ultra chickens. It's where you want to in, you know, implement that operation at scale. And I think you're right, the politicians are one thing. You can affect policy and you know, laws and things, but they, they began to, and they have for a while, if you look back to like Laurel Canyon and things like that. But I think this technology of, you know, popularizing situations where you're going to end up in trauma and yada yada. This is their manufacturing culture to an unbelievable degree. And the very people that they're using to manufacture that culture, whether it's pop stars or influencers now, I guess now it's influencers. Very gay. Podcasters. Podcasters, yeah. So, but you know, they are themselves.

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[F]

Victims of MK Ultra adjacent projects. Right? Because MK Ultra, I think at its, at its core you can say, is the study of what becomes of an individual who subject subjected to trauma and then by result enters disassociative states. There's a bunch of fun stuff that you can kind of pick at and develop after they enter this disassociative state. And so that creates a bunch of sub projects. So when they say MK Ultra went away in the 1970s or whatever, it's like, no, it didn't. It just changed names and there's a bunch of different programs that are doing a bunch of different things. But you are then, and especially in childhood, if you can get them, you're taking these people from childhood, you're subjecting them to this trauma, you're then paving the way for them one way or another to get them into positions of influence and then they're going around and creating at mass the circumstances that created them.

[E]

Well, can I, can I just go schizo really quick? Let's go.

[F]

I thought we were.

[E]

No, I mean, this is like something I've really been thinking about. So MK Ultra is around or. Or, I mean, the idea of MK Ultra, this idea of mind control, when they're looking into telepathy since at least the 50s in, in the United States, longer internationally. So I started looking at, well, who was born in the 50s? And we have Jeffrey Epstein, born in 1954. And we know that MK Ultra is not, like, it's not a program where they. Well, maybe it was before, but what it seems like it is now is like it's a program that's kind of like wide sweeping, where they're searching for a candidate. Maybe they're going through schools and doing certain things in Sigma programs, drinking the. The pink drink, Pink drink baby, the ear test and stuff like that, trying to narrow down and figure out who is the candidate for whatever they're doing. Maybe it's a Manchurian candidate.

[F]

Maybe.

[E]

Maybe it's an Epstein. So 1950, 1953 or 50, 1954, Epstein is born, I believe. Let me just make sure that, because I don't want to be lying over here. 1953, January 20th. Yeah, he. He was born in Brooklyn at about 10 years old. This is crazy. Scientists discover the Epstein Barr.

[F]

That's interesting. Yeah.

[E]

Herpes. So 9, 10 years old? 9, 10 years old. Is the age, like, I don't know that fifth grade, I'd say. No, I'm saying that's the age that you would be a qualified candidate for if they. If they can use you or not. When I was in, when I was in fifth grade, I was in the Sigma program, and I. I learned later on that I told you about this. This guy, this teacher was like, I don't know if he was grooming, but he was there for a specific reason. Because later on, when I had confronted him on Facebook about, like, tactics that he's using, like Saul Linsky tactics, he fucking crashed out on me, blocked me on Facebook. I was like his favorite student and completely crashed out because I was just pointing right at him. I was like, you are doing this. You have done this thing. What was happening? But anyway, in fifth grade, that's the time period where they're going to qualify their candidate. It seems like, like, if you're viable or not, and then they're going to move forward. I just find it interesting that you have the Epstein Barr virus, which is herpes, solidified in 1964, right when Epstein's about 10 years old and, I don't know, a Couple years later, you have Bar, who goes and grooms Epstein, puts him into his schools, funds him, does all this kind of like secret all the way to the very end where his, his son Bill Bar is the ag when he gets, when he gets arrested and kills himself in prison. And it's just something that I'm thinking in my head because is Epstein just a piece of. Yes, but that's. What, is he a can? Is he a Manchurian Candidate? Was that MK Ultra technique used on him to create this kind of like perfect storm? I think absolutely. I think. Continue it.

[F]

You know, his, his girlfriend came out not long ago and basically tried to.

[E]

It was not saying he's a victim.

[F]

No, no, I'm not saying that you are either. It's, It's. We're looking at all these MK Ultra victims who are on the world stage who are then making the same thing of the, of the culture. Right. So it would make sense. It's. It's a system that seems to work pretty well. But his, his girlfriend was out recently. I know she deleted the tweets, but she was, she was kind of saying something similar.

[E]

She was saying he was innocent, but that he is a victim of these techniques.

[G]

Yeah, let's. Let's think about it in terms of like what happened with NASA or even, you know, now we have like this Space Force nonsense, but you have these government research operations that eventually go into the corporate sector. Right. The private sector. That's what happens all the time. So why would it be any different with the MK Ultra projects? They all discontinued in the 60s and 70s, and after that, according to the Freedom of Information act reveals and a break in that was staged at an FBI headquarters in Media, Pennsylvania. There was an FBI headquarters that was broken into by protesters who basically helped get this information out there. So again, to your point top, if Epstein is picked up by these influential wealthy people who are connected to these, you know, secret businesses, because again, these are outside of the auspice of the government now. You know, they're, they're making a lot of money doing this, so they have to keep it all a secret. And it's not necessarily easy to keep this stuff a secret. I have an example from Jim Keith's book here, and you made me think of it when you mentioned the Sigma program, because this is right out of the CIA rhetoric for this stuff. So in 1992, a psychologist by the name of Dr. Corden Hammond gave a talk to an audience of psychology professionals at a conference on abuse and multiple personalities in Alexandria, Virginia. And his lecture was titled Hypnosis in mpd Ritual Abuse. What MPD stands for is not clear at the moment. But if I see it as I'm reading this, I'll resay it. But either way, he goes into some witness and victim testimony that's way too graphic for me to read here on the show. But anyone can go and look at Jim Keith's Mass Control book and find it on page. Let's see, 116. But it goes into. He describes that one of the witnesses and victims explained that there were levels to this programming that patients underwent. So the levels are as followed. The first level, Alpha, is generalized Mind control, the base level of programming of the subject and characterized by augmented memory and the splitting of the mind into left and right brain divisions. Just like you're saying, Raven.

[E]

So it's Multiple Multiple Personality Disorder. Mpd. That's the abbreviation.

[G]

Okay, great. Thank you. Yeah, that was. Should have been obvious to anyone who's not a complete idiot like me. But anyways, Beta is apparently programming of sexuality and the destruction of moral inhibitions. This is what we see in a lot of the. The women that are used as sex symbols in the media.

[F]

Yeah.

[G]

Gamma is a level providing mind control system protection involving deception and misdirection to reinforce the programming so the person cannot be deprogrammed. And then deeper levels. And this is potentially what you're getting at with the telepathy tapes. And where Epstein's involvement might be. Delta is the assassin programming level and includes killers trained to perform ritual sacrifice. Theta is termed the psychic killer level. According to Hammond, he quotes. I never in my life heard those terms paired together. I'd never heard the word psychic killer put together. But when you have people in different states, including therapists, inquiring and asking, what is theta? And patients say to the them psychic killers, it tends to make one a believer that certain things are very systematic and very widespread. Earlier in the. In this quote, he was Talking about how Dr. Hammond is not only researching this himself, but he's had other physicians and psychologists across the United States finding very similar key terms in these victim testimonies. So this comes from their belief in psychic sorts of abilities and powers, including their ability to physically and psychically communicate with Mother in quotations. And including their ability to psychically cause somebody to develop a brain aneurysm and die Scanners.

[F]

Mother.

[G]

Yeah, this seems to be programming terms. And then the last. The last level that I'll read here, this is the final level described is Omega. It's the level of programming dictating self destruction and is intended to cause the subject to commit suicide when they are interrogated or begin therapy. So this was all described by, again, Dr. Corden Hammond in 1992. And I believe that was around the same time that Kathy o' Brien came forward with her partner, who I believe worked in the government, Mark Phipps. They came forward and testified before Congress that this had happened to Kathy o'. Brien. So,

[F]

I mean, we've gotten to the point now where I don't know how to take, you know, the Epstein files, the release, the popularity of all of this information, because a lot of the popularity of this information seems to be facilitated by the same organizations that previously obfuscated it.

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday, I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why, why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[F]

And that's, that's, I mean, I almost kind of want to get your thoughts on, on that. It's like, you know, you're doing this podcast. You've been doing it for a long time, longer than we have. And we're in this season now where, you know, we were calling it psyop season, like maybe, maybe last year. This was after about last year, about last year. This was when the cyber truck blew up outside of Trump Towers. And it was just about the new year and we were getting hit with so much crap back to back to back that we, you know, we made a T shirt, called it psy off season, yada yada. That terminology wasn't Something that was original by us, I don't think. I think a lot of people notice it at the same time. It's never gone away. So if you're a content creator, you know, in this realm of conspiracy theory, it has been on one hand, psyopsis and another one. It's been good for business, right, because there's always something to talk about. And I'm painting that picture in contrast to how long you've been doing this and how receptive people are now to it. I wonder if you've seen that. And I wonder what you make of all this, because the other day I had this conversation and somebody goes, yeah, well, the DOJ was forced to release this. I'm like, I don't fucking think the DOJ was forced to release this. It feels like I said the very organizations who once obfuscated this are now facilitating its release. Do you think this is all on the up and up or. Or does it smell strange to you? What do you. What do you make of this season that we're in?

[G]

Yeah, I started the show in 2020, which was like, you know, the beginning of the. The scop, right? 2021. Excuse me. So right in the midst of the big psyop that was Covid. And it felt like even before that, you know, was psyop after psyop after psyop to those who were awake. You know, the truth is never plainly stated in, in the media. And they use information in terms of warfare these days. That's. That's how information is shared. It's not shared organically. If you go to a certain level of authority, it's. It's weaponized, and it's weaponized. You know, it's been weaponized. I. I feel like just as a, you know, young person, I. I recognize that and stopped watching certain things because it was. It was clearly weaponized to a certain bias that shifted a lot. But I would say 2025 was definitely worthy of. Of a season of psyops because it felt like, you know, one after another. But honestly, now with what's going on, you know, I think it was all leading up to this. This is what they. They want people to co. Sign, which is the destruction of, you know, Iran for Israel's purposes and probably the British Empire and all their. And honestly, all these monarchs and Illuminati types who want to see a one world government created, not that Iran was standing in the way of that necessarily. They had their own, you know, thing going on and probably propped up as a virtual enemy from the beginning to create this situation. But, yeah, I. I don't see any of this leading to more freedom. I think it's leading to, you know, one world government. And I don't know that the entire population sees that, but there's definitely a lot of people who are like, why are we going to war? Right. Like, this, again, is. Is a nonpartisan issue. I don't think, you know, it's necessarily spoken about in the same ways. You saw the left really going hard for Palestine, and they became really anti Israel as a, you know, side effect of that. But now it's like, you know, I think a lot of people who did feel like Trump was speaking to their views and opinions now feel betrayed. You know, like, look at this guy who, who spoke so much about being anti war and pro America, and now gas prices are going up, expenses are going to be, you know, skyrocketing, I'm sure, for people who have any connection to any of this stuff. And that's why I was talking about earlier, like, trying to get away from the system as much as I can and decentralize the way that I live my life. You know, obviously it's not easy, but it's not impossible either. And through this podcast, I've met a ton of people who, you know, don't really get affected by what's going on in the rest of the world because of the way they've set their life up. So, yeah, I don't know. It's not something that I'm an expert in in any way, but we've definitely talked about it a lot on my show as time has gone on. You know, this sort of religious zealotry that's happening from multiple different religions, it's not just Judaism and their extremes. It's, you know, Christianity and that, the extremes that lie there, the Christian Zionists and all that, you know, leading to this, again, holy war that seems to be fueled by secret societies. I mean, if you look really even just one layer deeper than what the official truth is, and you'll see there's Freemasons and Templars and all this other, you know, esoteric nonsense going on, and for what, you know, does it lead me to believe that all this stuff is real? And I don't know. I honestly, I'm starting to think that these religious zealots are, in fact, just psychopathic. And, you know, they're using these spiritual esoteric ideas to convince good people to commit to their psychopathy. You know, like this whole Solomon's Temple notion and all this other you know, it's just all flowerly, flowery language to mind control people.

[F]

It does feel like we're in this place now where I think you kind of alluded to it a few moments ago. This was the point to a lot of these conspiracies, a lot of these breadcrumbs that have been left for as long as they had neck.

[E]

Right. Like, everyone is kind of now. Now we're all. I feel like now we're all. I just cut you off.

[F]

No, no, that's fine.

[E]

I don't care.

[F]

Oh, yeah, a couple people on Patreon. One person on Patreon was upset about that.

[E]

Yeah. And I'll do it again.

[F]

Do it again. Yeah.

[E]

We're all of us as conspiracy theorists coming from all different angles. We're now at this bottleneck, right? And everybody's kind of like shouldering, like, I mean, no one's being rude, but everyone's kind of like, yeah, my thing. My thing might be it. My thing might. Because we're right there to whatever the fuck is about to happen. And it's going to be important which angle we're all looking at it from, because whatever pops off, if you're not looking at it from the correct angle, you're going to be deceived.

[F]

And it almost feels like not just deceived, you're going to be used to facilitate it. So, like, if you're like, let's say, you know, into the whole New Age thing, there will be things there for you to kind of champion and say, yes, if you're into the Christian Zionism thing and you're trying to accelerate, you know, prophecy, there's going to be things there for, you know, for you to say, look, I was right. So every side is going to have their thing.

[E]

There's more. So, I mean, just in Christianity alone like that, we can talk to the Christian side that we're on. We're going to be like, yes, look, the nephilim, from a more, I guess, orthodox Christian perspective, those people are probably going to get swept up into something like, I don't know, the Crusades or something.

[F]

Yeah, no, something like that could be. Yeah, yeah. And that's a Christian nationalism.

[E]

Yeah, Christian nationalism is going to be a huge movement in America. I mean, I think Trump is moving to, like, rededicate America to.

[F]

To God.

[E]

I saw God. I don't even know what that means anymore, given his behavior and what appears to be, like, not.

[F]

Well, I mean, we were not.

[E]

What I recognize as Christianity is like, so what are we committing to.

[F]

On the previous episode, we were. Because there's something in it for everybody, right?

[G]

Yeah.

[F]

Fucking Bigfoot sightings in Ohio.

[E]

Oh, yeah.

[F]

Have spiked up, like, dramatically in a time period of four days. There was like eight sightings in this one area of Ohio, which may not sound like much if you're listening to this, but if you just think about Bigfoot sightings and how sparse and rare they are, far and few in between, one here, long period of time, one there, eight in four days is like somebody saw something. So even for the, The Bigfoot people, the cryptid people, there's something on the field as well. Oh, we're gone now. I don't know what the hell they're cooking exactly. I mean, we have some ideas about what they're cooking up. But I do have a feeling that a lot of us who have been in this. I'm going to use a very gay terminology here. Truth or movement for a long time are going to be unwitting influencers of, you know, of minds as we go into this. Like, well, weren't we.

[E]

Weren't we already like. Yeah, the whole Israel thing, the whole Jewish thing.

[F]

Oh, yeah. We were part of the, the, the, the bash. The Jew bashing thing. And then we were like, wait a second here.

[E]

It was very.

[F]

Making us. You're making us do this. And it is fun. How dare you? How dare you make us do this fun thing? So, yeah, man, there's. There's something in it for it. Have you heard about the, the Bigfoot thing?

[G]

No. I got a, A photo from another podcaster who saw what he calls a nephilim shadow that I, I thought it was a Bigfoot, but he said, no, this is nephilim ghost. Like, so I could put you guys in touch with him because. That's right. But no Ohio Bigfoot incursion.

[F]

Well, there's. I mean, there's not too much to say. It is if you go on Google when you go to news. This all happened within the last three to four days and. Right. Bigfoot roaming Portage County. Several reported sightings within days. This is Fox News Newsweek Big for Bigfoot expert details. Excitement after wave. They're calling it a wave of Ohio sightings. They have to be. Keep in mind, of course, they're going to sensationalize this, but for this to make it to so many reputable publications, which is weird.

[E]

Reputable.

[F]

Well, yeah. And I don't know if that's because the Overton window has shifted and mainstream media has lost its footing to such a degree that they're now trying to lean more into the fringe and the more conspiratorial because that's where, you know, the senses of at least Americans have shifted to. And I think that's probably true to some degree. It's still remarkable. The Columbus Dispatch. A rise in. In sightings in Ohio sparks interest in the state's famous cryptids. Bigfoot in Ohio. One more recent sighting. Ohio's mythical creatures. So I don't know what to make of this. I mean, I. My favorite show is. Is Tony Merkel's the Confessional. So I look at this sort of phenomenon often for those who aren't aware. A lot of his content hinges on testimony from individuals who have seen or experienced a strange thing. Dog, Man, Bigfoot, you know, in kind of entities, demonic entities and such. And if you follow his show, he's had the sentiment for a while that it seems to be increasing, but he's unable to figure out if that's his own. What would you call it, bias from being so close to the situation or if that's a reality.

[E]

Well, then when you see this, this is confirmation. And I guess the reason is the question is, why is this increasing? So, like.

[F]

Right.

[E]

And then this could even go down to the Epstein files. Mark, did you ever think that you would get almost. What is it, 4 million? It's like 3 million, definitely. 3 million emails from, like, from what Epstein was doing, like, talking.

[F]

7 million now. 7 million. 6.5 to 7 million. Yeah.

[E]

Sounds high.

[F]

It's a little high.

[E]

I'm just saying it's like everything is being thrown at us right now, and it's almost like the floodgates are open. Even aliens. Whatever you think about aliens, that's there now.

[F]

It's all there.

[G]

I think there's definitely. I mean, if you're gonna put me to the. My feet to the flame. No, I didn't think that there would ever be any substantial release of information pertaining to Epstein. I don't mean to sound cynical, but I just had a suspicion that all of this would be covered up. Right. I mean, yeah, it seemed like he might not have even died, like, if you saw that quick little news story that came out a few weeks ago about his footage from the cell being reviewed, and there's, like, a blur where, like, something was cut and maybe a prisoner was allowed to walk out of a cell. So, yeah, I mean, who knows? Maybe they're. Again, I don't like to play into this whole white hat, black hat thing, but I'm sure there's people in positions of influence on that level. Who would like to see justice serve to these types of people? Because again, it's blackmail, you know, it's a blackmail operation. So anyone who is a part of it, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of sick and twisted people who probably enjoyed committing those crimes, but I'm sure there were people who are substantially effect or circumstantially affected by it that would like to see this kind of stuff end in politics. You know, I know there's very few clean politicians, but they do have some influence. You know, I'd like to think that not all of these politicians are in the hand of blackmailers, but who knows?

[E]

Maybe, but it's just when like the timing of it is what gives me pause. Right. So you have the release of the Epstein files as the war in, in Gaza and Israel is like really spiking. They're, they're positioning on Iran and that's going to be a big deal when we're talking about nuclear bombs being dropped. And then for no reason at all, you have Obama talking about aliens being real on a podcast no one's ever heard of. And then Trump goes, oh yeah, I might just declassify that. It's like literally within a two week time period, those three main things are now on the table as legitimate, real and will be talked about in the future by the mainstream.

[G]

Yeah, I think you guys are already well ahead of the average person on this. But aliens are faking gay and if anybody disagrees with me on that, go and read Saucers of the Illuminati by Jim Keith. He lays out a pretty convincing case that it's humans operating these technologies, whether they're craft or you know, some sort of hallucination that's taking place. But I, I believe the people that are being abducted are being used for their biological materials, for these MK Ultra programs. Cloning, potentially.

[F]

Yeah.

[G]

And you look at what Jim Keith compiles in that book and it's a lot of, you know, case by case, you know, evidence that shows that people were being kind of like convinced afterwards to think that it was UFOs or aliens that did this to them. Right. So it seems like it's like a, like a false memory syndrome kind of thing where a crime commit is committed against a person. They go to court, a hypnotist, you know, gives testimony on their behalf and then the CIA, you know, covers these criminals ass by saying, oh no, it's false memory. Like it's, it's, it's just the same playbook in a different realm. And it works.

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday, I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and that's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today. So you never miss a moment in

[G]

the way that victims have a story that nobody believes. I mean, for the most part, until a certain point. And they probably phased this type of operation out 10, 15 years ago, which is why they're willing to let people speculate about it. But, you know, you think about how people were treated when they came forth with some sort of testimony about aliens or UFOs. They were, you know, my family thinks I'm crazy, right? And like, to go back to your question about, you know, my thoughts on everything going on, I'm like, should I change the name of my show? Because so many people are red pilled now to the truth. You know, not to get into the whole pill analogy conversation, but you know what I mean. So many people have become aware of things that five years ago when we'd talk about Epstein and try to convince our friends that this kind of thing was going on or even our family, if you're brave enough, that they'd think you're crazy right now, it's like it's just out there and to a sickening degree where people are like, not only do they believe it, but they're disgusted by it. And it's made people kind of hopeless in that sense. Right now there's a war to distract us from that.

[F]

But I think you're, you're right on, though, with this.

[E]

You can't change the name of the show though.

[F]

No, too much.

[E]

My family thought I was crazy.

[F]

Maybe that. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't hit as hard yet. Well, you know what it is, Mark? They're still gonna think you're crazy because after everybody comes around to accept sort of the Pleiadian star homies or whatever, and you're, you're gonna still be saying. And that's kind of the curse of almost pursuing the truth, no matter how disruptive it is to your original paradigm, is that you're always going to be in a place where, like, as the paradigm shifts, you're not going to be accepted if you're really still pursuing the truth. Because if we're moving towards disclosure and, and whatever the hell they're going to say, Elizondo and his homies, they're going to jerk each other off on TV and they're going to say, what about the, what about the technology? It's going to, oh, it's going to be so good. And you're going to say, what about the entities? And they're going to say, yeah, benign space homies from a galaxy far, far away. No. So you're still going to be crazy. You're still going to be against the narrative as the narrative shifts, no matter how dramatically it does. But I do think that you're correct. The vast majority of abductees, they're actually experiencing something that is a cover for an intelligence operation. And I think that those intelligence operations are still pretty MK Ultra adjacent. I think you're right. They're taking genetic material from individuals. They're, they're, they're pulling the cum. They're doing all this stuff. They're, they're. And I think there's a hybridization program that is real. Is real, and it's, they're doing it. Well, you have to ask at, you know, what are we being hybridized with? You know, what is like the Black Eyed Children phenomenon? What are the grays? I think a lot of the grays might actually just be like biological automatons that they use to like, show you this thing so that you remember that instead of the fact that there was military personnel present, there was medical personnel present and you were in a very scientific, you know, almost hospital environment while he was doing these experimentations on you. So I think you're right. A lot of it is, is, is a, a farce. I do think there is a small percentage of it that actually is physical and, and non human. But I don't, I don't Know what that is like when, when David Ickers, who, you know, God bless him, he's a mess right now. He's freaking out on Twitter because everybody is getting popular off of information that he put out a long time ago and he's not getting his flowers for it and other people are, you know, it's, it's just whatever. That's the nature of being first, right? When you're first, you're not going to get the flowers, you're going to get the arrows. And then later on when it's safe, other people are going to come out and they're going to say the thing and you're going to feel real bad about it. But either way, I, I do think there's something to be said about, you know, like reptilians, if people are having these experiences and there's insectoids and, and, and I try not to get too caught up in these things because you can't define them, right? You don't understand their nature. I don't know how many horrifying creatures they've made in labs, in tunnels beneath China or some like that. And they're now rolling them out to be part of this, you know, whatever is an extension of an intelligence operation. So I do think there's probably some reality to people having these experience with flesh and blood beings. And also I do think that there are spiritual entities that are outside of the human condition, you know, and maybe they're the ones. If you look into how these things were previously contacted by occultists and New Age thought leaders and all this other, it was done through channeling. Typically it was done through like some sort of a drug induced state and they would channel it. If you're looking at Crowley, he's got to do it through ritual and through meditation and through seances and he ends up contacting awa Sex, a lot of butt sex. The butt sex really helps. So, so I think like before these things were. But I think that's real. Before these things were ever abducting people in that way, they were being contacted. And a lot of these guys said that the way you're doing it right now with ritual and you know, meditative states, the way you're going to do it in the future is technology. I, I think that the technology that we're doing it with is frequency based technology. And that's a whole other thing. And I think that all springs forth from those programs, MK Ultra, etc. But yeah, man, so I think you're right over the target. The vast majority of this is A cover for, you know, covert operations within the government.

[E]

Let me just say I hope, like. Because I think Mark comes from a perspective where it's. It's pretty like material. Like, I really do hope that it's like just some CIA operatives that are doing this to people. I just suspect that it might be. It's. It's a. It's some of that. And it feels like it's. It's some of something else too.

[F]

Well, that.

[E]

Which is terrifying.

[F]

Yeah. Go ahead, Mark. What do you think about that?

[G]

Yeah, I don't discount that at all. I don't mean to come off as like a materialist, I guess. You know, that seems to make the most rational sense to some degree. But I mean, the evidence does point to them putting a lot of money into these occult, you know, protocols, for lack of a better term, methodologies. Right. And yeah, I don't think we should discount that at all. As to whether or not aliens are flying in from other galaxies, I think that's pretty clearly a lie. But whether or not there's some sort of interdimensionality to it, I don't discount that or, or even an entity that's been on the planet as long as we have in another form. Right. You know, something non corporeal. Right. So. And I think there's a lot of evidence to, to point to that, especially when it. When you're looking at Epstein, or at least his associate Wexner, who claims to be possessed by a Jewish demon for his whole life. Right. Like, so this isn't something that they're a stranger to. And I imagine that they probably, you know, fancy getting a demon of their own if they, you know, could. Right. Like, I feel like this is kind of the thing that they're all interested in. Right.

[E]

So, Mark, did you see the video of Lex Wexner as he's being deposed or questioned? They ask him, they ask him something about like, maybe Epstein's penthouse, because I know he sold Epstein for like, I don't know, 10, $10,000. It's like a multi million dollar penthouse. $50 million, something like that. And they ask him, and there's a point where he like, looks down and it looks like, like if someone was over his shoulder, he kind of like goes and like flinches.

[F]

He does a whole thing. He just.

[E]

He does a whole thing.

[F]

Shakes it off.

[E]

It's. It's the most bizarre thing. It's like, like, like a demon or something is in his ear telling him, don't fucking tell him that.

[F]

Yeah. And then you have that picture, that black and white photo of. Of the.

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

Or whatever. Yeah. It looks like a face in the. In the shadows next to him.

[E]

Listen, this is all circumstantial stuff, but when I see somebody react and you look behind him and there's nobody there, I'm just like, oh, man. Like the voices, right? Everybody knows about the voices. Like, that guy just heard a voice right there, and it told him, don't say whatever you're about to say.

[F]

Either that or it told him, like, you know, you're. You know, he didn't. You know what I mean? You're.

[C]

You're going to jail.

[F]

They're gonna kill you. They're gonna. Now everyone's gonna find out. He's like, oh, God, no. I think that's what happened there. Yeah, man. I. I mean, well, have you. You haven't seen that. That video, Mark. And maybe we have it here.

[G]

No, I mean, please, if you want to share it, I'd be happy to watch it, but. Yeah, No, I haven't seen it yet.

[E]

Yeah, I have it. So Owen Benjamin did it. Did a pretty great breakdown of this. We'll play. Play a couple seconds of it, and we can check it out. So he's here's like, buy us something nice.

[C]

Want to go to Abercrombie and Fitch and have an excuse to look at the boys with no shirts on?

[E]

Let's see.

[C]

They show up.

[F]

They don't have a big team. We floating in a rap. Oh, I know.

[E]

I think he's just. He just roasted him here.

[F]

Well, I do think that, you know, one of the things that seems like a constant is that these people in the. And this has been the same thing through antiquity, right? The priest class, the. The rulers of the plebs, they have always been the ones who are the recipients of coveted knowledge and information from the spiritual realm. Right? And I don't think that that's changed. I mean, I think just because in 2026, they wear suits and they. They fuck a kid on an island like a gentleman instead of at the top of a ziggurat, I don't think the game has changed. And I think they're still doing the same thing. And I think this video of Lex Wexner is. Is him still, you know, listening to them. And here we go.

[E]

There it is. A woman named Alicia Arden.

[F]

He's shaking. How about that shake? When he shook his head, it almost sounds like there's a demon whispering to him, doesn't it? Like, watch this. Could I ask one. It's time to split your own throat last. Split your own throat. Let's do it. Do it now.

[G]

Now.

[F]

Not yet. Let me feel one more thing.

[E]

It's just like, bizarre. He's getting. There is. There are a couple instances of that during that deposition. I'm just like, man, there's something else going on here that we're not. We're not privy to.

[F]

Oh, it's got to be hard, right? I mean, you. You built this entire empire off of thinking that you were untouchable. And now in your old feeble life, they're. They're coming for you and they're exposing these things. Like, yeah, he's probably got a lot of whispered in his ear.

[G]

Yeah, Yeah. I can't imagine it. I. I think there is. When it comes to voices in your head, there's definitely technologies that can do that to people now, but this is a different case altogether for sure. So. Yeah, I mean, what compels people to do bad things, evil things? Who knows? Maybe it is demonic possession. I don't think we should give people that excuse. But at the same time, if you are in league with a demon, you must be a pretty bad person to. To attract that kind of attention to begin with, right?

[F]

So the way that I've come to understand it is. Is not so much that you're in league with it, it is that something happened. Trauma seems to be the doorway, which is what the MK Ultra program figured out too. Trauma seems to be the doorway. It changes the brain chemistry in such a way that these things now have access to you. And what in the average individual manifest as, like an intrusive thought to an oppressed individual is. Is much louder of an influence. But the thing is, you still always have free choice, right? You always have a say in the matter. And the more you consent to the things that it says to you, the greater influence it has over you. So it's a. It's a vicious cycle. It's like a feedback loop. It tells you to do a thing. You have a choice. You can say no, but as soon as you do consent and you do that thing, now, it has even more of a grasp on you. So I think it's like in League is. Is maybe one way to put it, but it's much more like a parasitic relationship. And the. The more that you give it access, the more that it. It can feed off of you. Or at least that's how it seems to be in. In. In our research. And who knows? Lex Wessner, I'm sure, has done a Number of things, Wexner. A number of things that have given these. These entities, these spirits, whatever you want to call them, a lot more access to him than when they first started interacting with him.

[E]

So the guy. I forget the guy's book that you were mentioning does. Is there. Is there any other extrapolation or on these kind of details, like, what else does he get into?

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McArdell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday, I'm gonna talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America, and that's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast.

[C]

The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel, and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my Howie do it gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow $267 million gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins in advances to the championship match. Right now at global gaming league.com that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.

[G]

Well, he's written a number of books. One of the things that I was thinking about mentioning earlier was how black helicopters overwhelmingly were associated with cattle mutilations. And if we're talking about cloning and whoever is using these genetic material, it's conceivably possible there might be some sort of reason they would want to use those parts of. Of cows. I don't know. The technology there is very strange, too. If you look at some of these cattle mutilation cases, the precision at which some of these animals were mutilated, it's like, with. It'd have to be with, like, sophisticated technology that the average person doesn't have access to. But maybe, you know, a lot of people at the time thought that was a satanic ritual of some kind. It could be one in the same, you know, and that's kind of Jim Keith's point is like, maybe it's not aliens. Maybe it's this occult, interdimensional demonic presence here that certain agents, certain agencies, certain Government bodies, secret societies have access to and are in league with. And then. And to the earlier point you're making, Raven. Yeah, maybe it isn't that these victims of this system are in league with it necessarily, but once you have that demonic parasitic infection within your family and that abuse cycle begins, like, yeah, you become. That's just a part of, like, to our earlier point in the conversation, this degeneracy of culture that occurs from this demonic influence. But, yeah, Jim Keith, he. He concludes that there really isn't much evidence to support this being some kind of alien, gray, alien type of thing that the media likes to portray. That it seems more often than not people were being abducted by other humans and. And for. To what ends he found it seems like there's some occult significance to it. Occult rituals, ritual abuse, mind control, it's all in the same nexus. It's all connected.

[F]

Yeah. I think we just, we've been subjected to a lot of propaganda by Hollywood and such to really flesh out what the alien phenomenon is. And that's what, what upsets me a lot when people go like, oh, you think you understand what this is? This is aliens, you know, or they'll. They'll look at Christians who go like, this thing is demonic. Which I would agree with, you know, to say, we've had this discussion back and forth, but to say they're demons is a very specific thing. To say that they're demonic, meaning like in opposition to humanity. I would even say that the technology. I think that the technology and the methodology that the government is utilizing was developed through channeling. I think that a lot of this information and, and the, the way to Hemi Sync and all these things. It's also worth mentioning, right. Stephen Greer's CE5 app is a binaural beats app that Hemi syncs you. And then you can call in orbs that are UFOs, you know, into this realm.

[E]

You can also get like, schizophrenia or have this regular poltergeist.

[F]

Poltergeist activity. Yep.

[E]

Yeah. Hauntings. I mean, you're opening up some sort of a door. Whether it's a door to government agents, it's very possible.

[F]

I think that's a huge possibility.

[G]

Yeah.

[E]

One of the things that always gives me pause, like you just mentioned with the. The black helicopters and the cat will mutilation is like an important detail. When this happens to the cattle, they oftentimes leave it in the field. And I know for sure if I leave something in the field, like I have 10 acres, something dies there. A chicken dies. You Leave it there for a day. That shit's gone.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

And if it's not gone by a predator, it's going to be eaten by ants or bugs or whatever and it's just going to be dissolved to its carcass, to the bones. And maybe not even that. These cattle, they, they're left in the field after the, these intense mutilations. Nothing touches it to the point where it's like its skin becomes leather from the sun because they'll just sit out there and they'll petrify like a mummy. It's bizarre. So there's a technology and you know, it's easy to be like aliens, right? Like with the guy aliens. But there is a technology that's being used on these things to cut them open with this laser like precision and like take their, all the blood out their body and like that. And it's not, either it's not human or it's extremely toxic because the things on this earth, the natural order of this earth doesn't recycle it back into the, into the earth, which is just what's supposed to happen. So it, it just. That's why I find the disclosure so fascinating, especially the arguments that we're having with like these people like Albarino, because we're talking past each other in a way.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

He's saying like the disclosure is going to be great. Don't you wanna, don't you wanna see this thing? Don't you want these people held and you know, the people held accountable? Yeah, sure, whatever. Like I'm not, I'm not holding my breath. But the technology is completely separate from the phenomenon that we're talking about. The aliens or the little grays or the tall nords or whatever the fuck they're going to give us. These are two different things. One exists and they continue to give us short little, you know, little blasts of it. Yeah, here it is. Here's a piece of alien technology.

[F]

Fiber optics, right?

[E]

Yeah. How we're talking right now, this is fucking, it's crazy. Just even a couple years ago we wouldn't have been able to do things like this because the technology has come so fast, so far, so.

[F]

Well, the question that's interesting to ask after that is like, what did people of antiquity say about, you know, supposed technology they have? I think the Vedics are a great example because they had all these famanas and flying cities and bell shaped crap supposedly. And you could say that that was just mythology. But where did they say they got it from? Well, they got it from Gods. Okay, so, so entities from the sky gave them all sorts of technology and as far as I'm concerned, those, those entities, I think I understand what they are and you know, a lot of people disagree, but whatever. It seems like the same thing is happening right now.

[E]

What we're going to be dealing with though it seems Mark, like the, the discrepancy between the technology that's going to make our lives so much better. Just, I mean it's just going to be better. But people will be getting like super cancers and stuff. But you'll be able to travel if

[F]

you had like, like jet boots and it gave you super cancer. Like yeah, but then I might take

[E]

the super, I take my jet boots to the place that solves the super cancer because they'll have that, you know, so it's like, yeah, we'll have like that and then we'll also be like, well there's also like aliens and then we'll have to kind of deal with this new thing. I don't, I don't know where to put any contract.

[F]

They have to butt 10 of the population annually. But we get super boots which like, even if I'm opposed to that, I'm in.

[G]

Yeah, well, I think it works multiple ways. It conditions the people to believe in this author authorized fiction. Right. Like this sci fi stuff, it's not unreal. It's just the premise, the context to which people are receiving this information is warped. Right. So there are aliens in the sense that there are non human entities where their origin is I think has been obscured to keep our brains thinking about, you know, space travel and the Jetsons and all this other that's come out of the American media. But yeah, there's other really compelling points. You know, one guy that's not a lot has not been killed for his research. Again, Jim Keith, really unfortunate circumstances. Remind me before we wrap up and I'll tell you exactly what happened because it's really strange. But another guy who I just interviewed on my podcast, Adam Go rightly has a book called Saucers, Spooks and Kooks and he also put out a film recently and it basically just highlights how throughout the whole field of ufology, the CIA and other intelligence agencies are all over it like manipulating information. And not only that, but actually paying people to put out disinformation and steer people in a certain direction. And you know, it's, it's not people we wouldn't be familiar with either. Like one pretty popular ufologist who I think a lot of people have probably Seen on Ancient Aliens is the woman. What's her name? She's always talking about, like, the Space Brothers and all this other stuff. No, it's. It's another. It's another woman. She's. This is in a different kind of light completely. Like, Diana Pasal is interesting for. For different reasons. But yeah, there's. There's a couple different female ethologists who have become popular. One of them's related to Eisenhower, but I'm thinking of. There she is. There's a picture of her. I gotta find Linda Moulton Howe. Sorry. So, yeah, Linda Moulton Howe is somebody who, I mean, on the record admitted to receiving information from these, you know, basically agents. And afterwards it came out and she kind of played it off, but. Yeah.

[E]

Yep.

[F]

Bring her up. I want to see. Physiognomy, check.

[E]

Oh, it's not great.

[F]

It's not great. Of course it's not great. Physiognomy, check. Let's see, what's her name? Linda. Yeah. No, not good. I don't know. She's a. She's a mile. Okay. Okay, never mind. All right.

[E]

There is a. There is a type. These aliens or government people have a type. And. And that's it.

[F]

They love ugly people.

[E]

Well, I think you have.

[F]

It's.

[E]

It's kind of like the red. You know, you know, the phenomenon of the ginger person that. That is joining ISIS or was joining ISIS after 9 11, like socially not accepted in society. And then they. They get swept up. Yeah. To be honest, and I don't want to be insulting, but.

[F]

Go ahead, be insulting.

[E]

No, I mean, Vicki Joy Anderson, she was.

[F]

Oh, they tried, but she's too based.

[E]

She was born with like a facial construction issue and yeah. Multiple surgeries, but it's same. The same sort of issue.

[F]

Like, I think she was also born with a super dope dad.

[E]

Yeah.

[F]

Who was like. Kept her like, you know, like in alignment in the right way. And now she's based as.

[E]

But her life was rough, you know, and it's like.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

I think that that physical trauma. The physical trauma and the mutilation, like not. Not being accepted into society is an open door to whatever this is. To knock on.

[F]

Yes.

[E]

And want to. So this lady you're saying is also a contactee.

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now, every Wednesday I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and that's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my how we do it gaming team take on Gilly The King and Wallow 2 6, $7 million Gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right [e-mail] that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.

[G]

She is a ufologist, so she researches. I don't know that she's ever been contacted herself. I think she just researches like the phenomena of ufology and contactees and all that. No, she's not. She hasn't had an experience herself. But I, I, I'm almost certain some of those people even got wrapped up in the Epstein stuff. Not anyone from her generation, but some newer people talking about like UAPS and stuff like that was connected to some of Epstein's emails, people that he was in the loop with. I'm actually going through. Have you guys been on the list of people named in the Epstein files, Wikipedia page yet?

[F]

It's, it's hard, man, because I don't know what to make of that. It's like, you know, like I said,

[E]

it's like in his name, but he's named for not wanting him on the file.

[G]

So.

[E]

Yeah, the context is also super important.

[G]

Right, Right. Yeah. For the most part, I'm just seeing people that were in contact with him. But it seems like Epstein loved magicians because he was emailing both David Blaine and David Copperfield. So.

[F]

Well, this is it. We have to leave some room for like, like magicians are fun, you know what I'm saying? Like, Epstein probably did so, like he played on an island, didn't play Fortnite or something like that.

[E]

That's the thing. He's, he's involved with everything. He's involved with micro transactions, microtransactions and video games. So they say. I'm just like, this is just a little too much.

[F]

Yeah, yeah. So in some ways I've been using that, like Albert pike line where, you know, when the people need a hero, we will provide one for them. That's same thing applies to villains. They're really great at giving us a bad guy. And I'm not saying that Epstein wasn't a bad guy. I'm just saying it's weird to all of a sudden have what seems to be the linchpin that connects all of these conspiracies. Like, he's some great mastermind. And then it goes even further. It's like the. The bad guy from. From Black Phone also, like they modeled him after, which is like, damn. May well be. But I. I'm hesitant to. To look at an individual human and go like, oh, the source of all of our woes. Even. Even microtransactions on Call of Duty, the. The source of all of our woes. I don't. I mean, when you hear that, doesn't that. Does that seem strange to you, or do you think, like, you know, it is plausible that this guy is, I'm not saying a mastermind, but involved in every thing?

[G]

No, I don't think everything. You know, I think he was rel. In. He was in connection to very specific things. I wouldn't say he was connected to everything. You know, yeah, micro transactions might seem out of the blue, but if the guy was interested in meeting children and trafficking children, maybe he'd want to be invested in major platforms that children were, you know, connected to. Right.

[F]

Or he's just. He's just a Jew who likes to pinch a penny.

[G]

Well, and I'm sure there's a financial motivation behind everything he does, but I. I'm not someone who's saying he's like the, you know, sole head of this network. I think really what happened is he's a fall guy who probably had a lot of different, you know, pockets. Hands in other people's pockets, and who knows? I mean, honestly, it does seem like too much to sort through. But specifically, what's interesting to me is his connections to DNA research, genetics, researching computers, where that overlays with, you know, neuroscience. I mean, there's definitely some things that are striking as far as, like, what he was interested in. It seemed to be. It went beyond just human trafficking, like using humans to clone or to create some sort of vessel for an entity. Right. Like, this is whether it's a person who's paying to extend their life or some kind of nephilim demon. Like, you know, it really is unclear from, again, the emails and the few documents that we were released, but the victim there is one victim who has an encoded journal. Did you guys see the encoded journal? So this encoded journal, it really. It's. I think it's a rail cipher. So it's not like a complicated cipher. It's like if you were to write a sentence going up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down. So it looked like you had two lines of words, but it obviously wouldn't make any sense if you read it, you know, without going up, down, up, down, up, down. Right. So anyways, people have deciphered it, and she basically is writing this message in code to Jeffrey Epstein, it seems, and she's expressing how upset she is about being used as an incubator. So, you know, and that. That was. That's a direct quote. I'm not. You know, I think what's really going on there is. Yeah, he was probably impregnating women at this Zorro ranch place and then using the babies for who knows what, you know, awful things, I'm sure.

[E]

Yeah. There's a. There's another email about that, which. With a woman who seems, like, almost obsessed with him.

[F]

Oh, yeah. And she seems cool about it.

[E]

Yeah, she. She's actually happy about it. She's attributing the genetic experiments from him to the birth of her daughters. I think even, like, she goes as far as saying she took some sort of a turkey baster after he was done with another person. Yep. Inseminated herself. It's bizarre. And Epstein is now paying, like, that daughter's tuition at one of these colleges that she's going.

[F]

Harvard, I believe.

[E]

Yeah, it's. It's. There's a lot of strange stuff, but there is no shortage of. Whenever you have genetic manipulation, cloning, things like that, it seems to run hand in hand with the spiritual side. Like, we just ran into Raelian. She's. Oh, yeah, this girl had, like, you know, the railing tattoo, the swastika inside the star of David on her chest. And she's claiming she's all kinds of all the same normal. But, like, that cult specifically is obsessed with the Elohim, which is like a. It's basically alien. So Elohim in the Bible means not from this earth, they're from the heavens. Speaking about angels, whether they be fallen or still in the glory of God, that's the connotation. Connotation and term for elohim. God himself is also an elohim. So that's the species of being that this is. They worship these things. But also on the side underneath, they have a cloning program. No problem. You Know, and they got shut down in the United States. I think they're operating. This is from the UK somewhere, so they're still over there. They're in Africa, for sure. And there's just always that strange overlap of. We're doing, you know, we're looking at the. The nuts and bolts of this thing, genetic hard facts. We're also looking at this. The soul, the spirit, you know, entities, whatever. Whatever you want to call it, some sort of spirituality. It's, like, hard to shake, right?

[G]

Yeah, I. I have no doubts about that. I think, you know, it's part of why I lead a somewhat superstitious life in the sense that, you know, believe in God and. And I believe in, you know, doing good by people because karma is real and. And, you know, not hurting people or violating their rights. Right. So. And I hope that the community I live in lives by those, you know, standards, and if not, I'll find another place to live, you know, and that's kind of the best I've been able to do. But it definitely, you know, doesn't bode well for being an optimist doing a podcast like this, because in not your podcast, but my podcast, because, you know, overwhelmingly when we talk about these subjects, it is, you know, dark outcomes. You know, there's a lot of things that have been swept under the rug that you go and look and it's. Yeah, it doesn't settle well with you. So being a normal person, after learning all this stuff, I think, you know, especially now that this information is being proliferated everywhere and the average person is more aware than ever. Like, I think we're gonna see, hopefully, this cynicism or nihilism evolve into people, you know, motivated to change the world and make it a better place and ultimately put these criminals, these disgusting people, behind bars, you know, justice served to the. The victims of these awful crimes.

[F]

Dude, I don't know what's gonna happen. I know that there was a time where I said we weren't going to get the Epstein files until they were ready for the next piece of theater. I looked at the Epstein files like a plot device, and you wouldn't release them until you were ready for whatever the next thing is. And. And I jokingly said on Twitter that after the release of the first batch was like, January 31st or something, or whatever the hell it was, 20 something, I said, look out for three things. Look out for alien disclosure, war with Iran, and the collapse of the dollar, because I thought, like, the Epstein files would be such a big plot device. That whatever came next would be a big shift in the narrative. And so, of course, as we sit here, what is, I don't even know what today is. March 16, it looks like, you know, all those things are on the table. We're certainly in. In war with Iran and we have disclosure on the horizon. And I don't know, maybe the economy's not in as, you know, dire strains as I thought it was going to be by this point, but it's in such strains that it could at any moment burst. Right.

[A]

So has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McCardell and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday, I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my Howie do it gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow $267 million gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right [e-mail] that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.

[F]

We were having a discussion with Topher Gardner Biocharisma, and he brought up something that I hadn't.

[E]

Shout out Topher.

[F]

Shout out Topher.

[E]

He crushes.

[F]

And. And he brought up something that I hadn't considered really because, like you or like you top right, we're all immersed in this to such a degree that like, when a thing happens, we kind of almost laugh about it a little bit. You know, it's like, oh, look, Benjamin Netanyahu's got AI hands. Or some like, who cares? And we might talk about it.

[E]

Our last president didn't even have hands.

[F]

That's right. Yeah.

[E]

He's remember, that is like his hand.

[F]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

Through the microphone, like every. Nobody remembers. Nobody cares.

[F]

He wasn't even a man. He was a robot.

[E]

Feet tall.

[F]

It doesn't matter now. He can't Walk, carvey in a rubber, man. It doesn't, you know, but it doesn't bother us. But what Topher mentioned was that, yeah, dude, there's a whole chunk of the population, the boomers, that when this veil gets torn to the side, like, those people are just gonna die, you know, so. So you're talking about, like, hopefully people will call for arrests and things like that.

[E]

And like, I was thinking about that idea and everybody dying.

[F]

Boomers dying.

[E]

Oh, yeah. No, it's horrible. No, no. Like, the idea of that, like, why that would happen, it's like ripping that band aid off. But I knew a guy and this happens often. Deep, like, deep into alcoholism, like just an alcohol. I work with him in a safety sensitive position, and the dude would like, we're not allowed to be drunk. You're not allowed. We have drug tests. He'd be drunk, he'd be drinking on the tracks. Great worker, but he had to functionally be drunk, you know? Yeah, he got clean, yo, dude, within two months dead, like, so, like, he took away the thing, like the formaldehyde that was just keeping him alive.

[F]

Yeah.

[E]

And when talking about this idea of. With the boomers or that kind of class, that. That formaldehyde of ideas that's pull it

[F]

all away at once.

[E]

Yeah. They're like congealed in it, you know, because it's.

[F]

It's not just the. The horrors, it's the degree to which they're complacent. Right. This is what Topher was talking.

[E]

Which they're complicit in.

[F]

Thank you. I made a word up. No, no, it was a real word. Just.

[E]

They're both, so. Yeah, they're both.

[F]

And this is what Topher was talking about as far as the complicity, which might also be a word that I made up.

[E]

No, you're good.

[F]

Is. Is the idea of, like, you're an evangelical Christian and your church is telling you that you have to bless Israel, and what you think that means in your mind is that you have to defend them no matter what horrors they commit on the world stage. And you have to finance them, you have to fund them, you have to donate to them to whatever degree that you can, and they can do no wrong. And then when you find out, you know, if there's ever going to be this big reveal, which it seems like we're in this season right now, where Israel's disproportionate influence in our government and. And really the fact that they just want their enemies in the Middle east eliminated and they're using Us as an attack dog, or they're trying to accelerate prophecy to bring about their moshiach or, you name it, if they're ever exposed to that. On top of the idea that Epstein is Mossad and this and that, I mean, like, yeah, you played a role in that. You kept those blinders on and you listened to the official narrative and you basically hoarded all your wealth, destroyed opportunities for generations, trusted the plan, trusted the experts, right? All kinds of shit. You did all the things they might be the most complicit generation in facilitating all of the horrors of, you know, of 2026. It's going to be hard, man. It's going to be really hard. I don't think you can just have an about face and go like, well, I was wrong. It's better to start looking at things more realistically and start, I don't know, withdrawing my funding from the Christian Zionist church that I go to and, you know, start looking into the, the maybe

[E]

I shouldn't sell my house for like, you know, 10 times what I brought it for. And my kids, like, there's so many aspects of this that they're gonna have to deal with, and I, I think so that that's going to create a disassociative state, which is kind of what we're talking about, like back to this MK Ultra technique. But when you're 70, you don't handle that right. You don't break and then get put back together as a super soldier. You break and you probably just have a stroke or something.

[F]

Well, so I know, I know Mark has to wrap it up in a couple minutes, so I just want to kind of push that line of thought to you and, and get your, get your opinion on it as we, as we bring this to a close.

[G]

Yeah, I mean, I'd hope not, but I think most of those people are glued to the television, so they're going to live their, you know, trance out. However, the television, you know, I think if, if nothing changes with the major news networks, none of the boomers will have that collapse because they're so tied into that. Like their whole world revolves around what the news tells them for the most part. I mean, I'm sure there's plenty of exceptions and people who have strong families, you know, those people will be fine. But yeah, no, I can see what you guys are saying where people just begin to unravel and I don't know, it already is going on. If you drive around, you might see people on the, the street with signs. I, I saw a person the other day that had a sign that said trump essayed kids. And, you know, I am like, you know, hey, it's the truth. According to the. The document release. Let's put it out there. I saw another guy with a sign that said honk for peace. I'm like, well, that's kind of doing nothing, but I appreciate the sentiment, and I honked. But, yeah, like, I think that's a good example of people starting to, you know, unravel a little bit when you start writing on cardboard and solo protesting out on the. On your own. But, yeah, you know, for the most part, I would hope that people's, you know, daily and weekly routines are strong enough that they. They wouldn't be so dependent on what the rest of the world was doing. You know, we gotta live, I mean, stable lives to be able to make the world a better place. Right? So if the boomers are gonna unravel and explode like that, so be it. Because there's, like, you kind of illustrated the. The most program generation that we've seen in this American modern experiment. So, yeah, yeah.

[E]

I mean, it's. It's horrific, partially. Therefore, Mark, before we let you go, I've just. So can you explain to us what happened to the guy?

[F]

Oh, yeah.

[E]

We got one more important question for you before you bounce.

[G]

So, Jim Keith, in that book I was telling you guys about with the black helicopters, it's titled Black Helicopters Across America, he talks about this specific bacteria that kept being found in conjunction with these cattle mutilations. And somewhere along the way, he attends Burning Man. Okay, sketchy already. He falls off the stage at some point during one of the performances, he has to go to the hospital a few days later, and in the hospital, in the operating room, he dies. There are complications or something. And what's so strange is that when the autopsy was done, the bacteria that he was writing about was found in his knee. And that's like something that's very anomalous. Like, it's not just, like a common bacteria that's just floating around. So some people have speculated that that was a message being sent. But he also wrote a book about the Danny Casalaro situation, and that guy had died under very obvious, not suicide, circumstances, but that's how the. That's how the autopsy was written. So, yeah, it's. It's very. Yeah, it's very weird what happened with Jim Keith. And I would urge anybody interested to check out his books. They're still available for the most part. You could buy them on Amazon. And there's a bunch of them. There's at least eight or nine. And yeah, very well worth the. The small amount of money you'll put into it for the valuable information in the books. But, yeah, I'd be.

[E]

I'd be interested to know if you remember what that. What that organism was or the.

[G]

The colostrum is coming to mind. But I feel like paired with that was another word. Like it's Coloss. Yeah, probably it's. But we're talking about cows here, so maybe. I think something's going on there. But yeah, no, it was like colostrum something or other. Yeah, I talked about it with Monica Perez on a recent episode.

[F]

We should talk to Toad. He probably knows.

[E]

He knows about breast milk. Yeah, no, because it's probably. It's probably the same chemical that's keeping. And they're just speculating.

[G]

It's in the forward of one of his last books. I think that might be where I found that information because one of his books was published posthumously. Humusly. I don't know.

[E]

Posthumously.

[G]

Posthumously. Thank you.

[F]

Colostrum.

[G]

Yeah, I don't know name. But it's out there. People can look. I think it might even be on his Wikipedia page, actually.

[E]

I'll try. I'm gonna look into. Because I'm suspecting that that's the same chemical that is drawing away ants, flies, predators from eating this stuff. If it's in. If it's in your body and it does that to a cadaver, it probably will kill you. But. Last question. Dave, you want to.

[F]

Oh, yeah. As we close, Mark, and you know you've done this for a long time now that we've changed this season and maybe even in your thrift shoppery and all things, all of your pursuits. Are you having fun?

[G]

Oh, yeah. Is this a question you ask all your guests?

[F]

Yeah, we've started to ask because it's. Well, we try to. And sometimes before you answer, I just want to say you can kind of tell who's going to give you a no.

[E]

We gotten two no's.

[F]

We've gotten two no's. And it's like, yeah, that made sense. And then. But. But generally speaking, people are. They are.

[E]

Oh, he probably knows one of the no's.

[F]

Which one?

[E]

William Ramsey.

[F]

William Ramsay is not having fun.

[G]

No, he's a serious guy.

[F]

He's a very serious guy. He actually was kind of pissed off that we asked him.

[G]

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, Maybe he felt. He felt like it took away from the seriousness of what he was there to talk about. I could see that I think he

[F]

was more like, they're these babies.

[E]

No, well, he just. Because he just told us all about the. Not To Kill a Mockingbird.

[G]

The.

[E]

The book.

[F]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Basically MK Ultra activated shooters. What is that called? Manchurian Candidate.

[E]

Yeah.

[G]

Oh, yeah. William Ramsey talks about. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[F]

He was not. He was not pumped.

[A]

Has the news been getting you down? I'm Megan McArdle and I'm here to help. I'm the host of a new show from Washington Post Opinion called Reasonably Optimistic. And it's an antidote to the pessimism that's riddling America right now. Every Wednesday, I'm going to talk to people who see a path forward.

[B]

It does seem to me that there is some awakening of a desire to act together to solve problems where they are to.

[C]

You know, I am a believer in America and it's worth fighting for.

[A]

Join me Wednesdays on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

[D]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up. March Madness is here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment. You've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[G]

I do podcasts like this with you guys and I interview people on my show. That's usually fun, depending on who I'm talking to. And. And then I do a show with Kurt Metzger, the derp with Kirp. I'm producing that.

[E]

Oh, that's so nice.

[G]

I'm in occasionally, but it's a lot of fun being there because Kurt's hilarious. Then obviously, you guys know I work with Sam Tripoli, so that's always fun. Talking to Sam here and there is always a treat. And finding out that he has random sound drops on podcasts that I've never even been a guest on. They're referring to me. The. On doom scrolling. He has a sound drop that goes. And Mark has found himself on the chopping block yet again.

[F]

And every time I hear that, I'm

[G]

like, how do they know I'm listening? What the. Not even. Like, in the live chat. And they drop that sound drop. So. But anyways, yeah, so I'm. I'm having fun. I appreciate the question. Life's going good and that's Part of why I emphasize what I was saying before, like, not worthy of talking about on podcast yet. Maybe one day when I become a little more proficient. But I've been going to some of these flea markets and finding really strange stuff. And, you know, with someone like us interested in all this weird, esoteric stuff, you know, maybe I'll find something worth the audience's attention and bring it up on a podcast one day. But so far, nothing too crazy. I found a amp amp meter the other day, and I'm like, this could be a portal opener.

[F]

Spirit box, dude.

[G]

Very old amp meter. And I'm like, it didn't say what it was. I'm like, this might be a portal opener, so I'm just gonna buy it and maybe my van will drive.

[E]

Oh, yeah, you gotta go camping. David. David just went camping with his son, and some creepy groundskeeper tried to get his son to pick up an old Indian arrowhead. And you said you picked it up. You, like, gave really bad vibes, dude.

[F]

It was so strange. As soon as we picked it up, like, everything started getting really weird. It felt like there was a bunch of watching us in the woods. And, like, I don't know, I just started getting, like, these alarms going off, and I was like, get rid of that thing, dude.

[G]

Dude, Native American curses, bro. It's not just pet cemetery stuff, dude. It's real. I think, you know, there's definitely a lot of validity to that. On another podcast, I'll tell you some of my experiences looking for these stone structures up here. And you guys are from. Originally from up this way, all over New York, New England, Pennsylvania. They're these stone structures built by. A lot of times archaeologists are inconclusive about who built them, but some of them were built by Native Americans. Others might have been built by Europeans that were here before Columbus. So, yeah, lots of strange stuff to go into there. Potentially, we should start visiting.

[F]

Like, I have this really cool hat and whip.

[E]

Going to New York.

[F]

I would not. Not New York, maybe. But there's cool stuff around Florida. I'd love to visit. Wear my hat. Bring my whip.

[G]

There's. There's a bunch of pyramids all over the Southeast as well. Like, they're mound pyramids in Georgia. There's some, and there's definitely some in Pennsylvania. Or not Pennsylvania. Florida. You guys have talked to Old World Florida, haven't you?

[F]

Yeah, we have. He's got a lot of fascinating things to say. In fact, I still see those arbor anchors with the. With a hole drilled through them, and they're they're used as anchors. In fact, the campsite that I was just at had one up on the shore with a rope going through it. Like, yeah, these things are used as anchors.

[E]

There's.

[F]

I guess they're still using. Some people are still using them now.

[G]

So.

[F]

Yeah, there's a lot of fascinating stuff. Florida.

[G]

I'm sure he could point you on endless journeys through Florida, so. But anyways, yeah, happy to be here, guys. My family thinks I'm crazy. Find it on Spotify, Apple, all the podcast apps, YouTube, and thanks again, Nephilim Death Squad. Always good to. To talk to you guys. I know you're on your way to a whole nother level of podcasting. Clearly, you're in studio. I love to see this. This is so cool. Like you said eight, episode eight I was here for, so.

[F]

Yeah, that's crazy. That's crazy. It's just crazy that you said yes at episode 8.

[G]

I saw on Instagram you guys have like a coffee shop too. That's so cool.

[E]

Yeah, we're. We're in a coffee shop right now,

[F]

so there's like, we could open up the doors and, and people often do. They come in and they're like, what the.

[E]

Visit us at the standard coffee shop. We're right. We're in the back most days doing podcasts. But we'll say hi to you and you might get some cool.

[G]

For sure. If I ever get down to Florida, I'll see you guys for sure.

[F]

Yeah, man, that would be great to have you in studio. Well, listen, listen. Thank you, Mark. It's always a pleasure catching up with you, man.

[G]

Thank you, Mark.

[E]

Thank you again for coming on. And guys, until next time, don't forget to obey, submit and comply. We'll see you later.

[F]

Do it again.

[E]

The end is written in the book.

[F]

In the pages they for. Desperate.

[C]

The Global Gaming League is presented by Atlas Earth, the fun cashback app. Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my how we do it gaming team take on Gilly the king and wallow. 2, 6, $7 million gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match right [e-mail] that's globalgamingleague.com in partnership with Level Up Expo.

[D]

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports right now. The NBA is heating up, March Madness is here and MLB is almost back Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it's about staying connected to my sports. I can follow the teams I care about. Get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.

[G]

At Amica Insurance, we know it's not just about where you're going, but who you go with.

[A]

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