SUNDAY SHARE: Six Sensory Pod - Old World Mysteries, Psyops, & Pyramids w/ JT Follows JC

Summary

Podcast Summary: Nephilim Death Squad – "SUNDAY SHARE: Six Sensory Pod - Old World Mysteries, Psyops, & Pyramids w/ JT Follows JC"

Release Date: April 20, 2025

In this captivating episode of Nephilim Death Squad, hosts TopLobsta and Raven welcome guest JT Follows JC to delve deep into a myriad of ancient mysteries, conspiracies, and esoteric topics. The conversation seamlessly weaves through ancient civilizations, hidden structures, and modern interpretations of age-old legends, all through a Biblical lens.

---

1. Introduction and Collaboration

JT Follows JC kicks off the episode by introducing Tim Constantine of the Six Sensory podcast, highlighting his previous discussions on significant historical events like 1947 and Hitler. JT expresses admiration for Tim's insights and encourages listeners to explore his content further.

"We are being hypnotized by people like this. News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people." — JT (00:00)

2. Hidden Structures Beneath the Pyramids

The conversation transitions to the recent findings regarding LiDAR scans revealing potential structures beneath Egypt’s pyramids. JT and his guest express skepticism about the mainstream narrative that solely views pyramids as tombs.

"It's funny because the overall narrative there is basically, you know, people still think that these things are tombs." — Unknown Guest (03:04)

JT shares his disbelief that such significant structures remained hidden until recent discoveries, questioning why more was not uncovered earlier.

"I find it really hard to believe that they just found out." — JT (04:51)

3. Ancient Technology and Civilizations

JT introduces theories about pyramids serving purposes beyond tombs, such as ancient power stations or energy sources, referencing John Kinnaman’s controversial archaeological work.

"The records...they were using anti gravity craft of some sort. So they had advanced technology..." — Unknown Guest (07:30)

They discuss the possibility of Atlanteans or descendants of Cain’s lineage being responsible for pyramid construction, intertwining Biblical narratives with archaeological hypotheses.

4. Star Forts and Subterranean Cities

The dialogue shifts to star forts and extensive underground tunnel systems in cities like New York, Seattle, and Nashville. They explore the enigmatic purposes behind these structures, suggesting they might house ancient knowledge or advanced technologies.

"It's like they did it intentionally... they wanted to clean up. They wanted to, you know, Manifest Destiny." — Unknown Guest (07:30)

JT highlights the inconsistency in historical records and the lack of mainstream acknowledgment of these subterranean architectures.

"It's really suspect that, like, places like New York City have, like, these large areas of abandoned subways..." — JT (19:04)

5. Tartaria and Lost Civilizations

JT and his guest touch upon the Tartaria theory, discussing maps that allegedly show ancient civilizations predating known history. They speculate about submerged cities and the alteration of historical timelines through events like the construction of dams.

"There was seven Cherokee cities along that river there that are all flooded now." — Unknown Guest (34:27)

6. Shamanism and Spiritual Entities

The conversation delves into shamanic practices and encounters with spiritual entities, referencing experiences with DMT and connections to Biblical beings like the Nephilim.

"The spirits that do remain are likely remnants of giants in Nephilim, wicked beings too." — JT (82:42)

They discuss how modern perceptions of magic and spiritual encounters are intertwined with ancient myths and Biblical stories, emphasizing the manipulation and control exerted by these entities.

7. Influence of Occult and Esoteric Beliefs in Modern Culture

JT and his guest explore the impact of occult figures like Aleister Crowley on modern music and media. They draw parallels between ancient rituals and contemporary representations of magic and alien phenomena.

"They are calling them something else because they want to manipulate you through broadcasting this certain magic." — JT (103:00)

They reference cultural icons such as David Bowie and Alan Moore, highlighting how their works reflect deeper occult and mystical themes.

8. Healthcare, Education, and Historical Manipulation

A critical discussion unfolds about the transformation of healthcare from natural remedies to pharmaceutical dominance, attributing this shift to influential figures like Rockefeller. They argue that historical narratives have been manipulated to obscure true knowledge and maintain control.

"I've learned that you can't patent a natural remedy. So what do they do? They make a synthesized version..." — JT (88:56)

They also touch upon the revision of historical timelines, suggesting that significant parts of history, especially in North America, have been obscured or altered.

9. Concluding Thoughts: Critical Thinking and Awakening

In their closing remarks, JT and his guest emphasize the importance of critical thinking and questioning established narratives. They advocate for uncovering hidden histories and understanding the broader implications of ancient and modern conspiracies.

"I want to see the receipts because I'm not trusting liars. So if I can plant a seed in somebody and I want them to come to their own conclusions..." — JT (141:06)

They encourage listeners to explore beyond mainstream teachings, fostering a community of inquisitive minds eager to uncover the truth behind societal constructs.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "We are being hypnotized by people like this. News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers." — JT (00:00)

• "The government releasing poison in the air." — JT (01:42)

• "It's really, really weird that somebody would... twenty rooms underground and nobody even stops to wonder how a city got buried." — JT (15:25)

• "Our food's not food." — JT (92:03)

• "It's the perpetual rabbit hole for me for sure." — Unknown Guest (91:24)

---

Final Thoughts:

This episode of Nephilim Death Squad serves as a thought-provoking exploration of hidden histories, ancient technologies, and the intertwining of Biblical narratives with modern conspiracy theories. JT Follows JC and his guest adeptly navigate complex topics, encouraging listeners to question and seek deeper understanding. Whether you're a seasoned enthusiast or new to these discussions, this episode offers a comprehensive overview of the enigmatic forces shaping our world's history and present.

For more insights and ongoing discussions, visit Nephilim Death Squad and consider becoming a supporter to access exclusive content.

Transcript

[JT]

What's up, guys? Welcome back to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. Sort of. This is a Sunday share and today we're going to be presenting a friend of ours, Tim Constantine of the Six Sensory podcast. We've had him on before to talk about what happened in 1947. Banger episode. And we just had him back on this Friday to talk about Hitler. So yeah, I mean he. He impressed us. And he has like a smaller show that we're hoping you guys will go over to and check it out. Here's his episode with JT follows JC It's a banger. Please listen. And we'll catch you guys live on Monday, Tuesday, whenever. Who knows, man. Peace out. Top Lobster Productions. We are being hypnotized by people like this. News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers. We are in a country and in a world that is being run by unbelievably sick people. The chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going.

[Unknown Guest]

On is absolutely enormous.

[JT]

Oh yeah, dude, there's some Nephilim. It's like we all know what's going down but no one's saying what happened to the home of the brave. These take controlness now when no one's talking about how they man, it's f. They slaves and everybody's just walking around.

[Unknown Guest]

Heading the clouds I want to wake.

[JT]

Up to a dead in the grave.

[Unknown Guest]

But any too late we need to be ready to raise up.

[JT]

Welcome to the end of day Everybody is slave Only some are aware that.

[Unknown Guest]

The government releasing poison in the air. My guest today is a content creator. He has a movie called Ancient Angels. You can see it on his shirt here. He has a show called JT's Mixtape. JT, thanks for coming on.

[JT]

Yeah, well, thanks for having me on. Yeah. So I do make short videos. Movies and podcasts mostly. And yeah, cool.

[Unknown Guest]

If I forgot anything there, you could tell people.

[JT]

No, I mean if you. If you follow, if you find me on anything, I've got a link tree and I'm kind of putting most of my focus on YouTube. So if you. If you just look up JT follows JC and then you can find a link in my description. You can. If you want to see the movie, obviously you can tell it's a playoff. Ancient Aliens. Ancient Angels is, I believe it's a more true depiction of like the mythologies that the people talked about. The megaliths. They mentioned gods did it. They didn't mention aliens did it? So I think that that's why and from a Christian perspective it all centers around the gods of these other religions were angels. And that's. And also obviously giants and everything was mentioned, which is kind of interesting in all the big buzz in the news recently is that the pyramids have these lidar scans and all these things under them. Would you. Have you, have you looked into that?

[Unknown Guest]

I have, I. Have. I, I looked into it briefly yesterday. You know, I think it's funny because it was either yesterday or a day before when it, when it, when the story like really broke, like in our community. Right. Like all the alternative people were talking about it on Instagram. And so I was just like, oh, let me see what happens. Let me see what happens if I put this into Google, see what mainstream has to say about this. And it's funny, I took a screenshot of it, but Google was running. And other like, news outlets on Google were running a story not about, about the pyramids, but not about the, the structures beneath them. It was two separate narratives at the same time. And Google was talking about. They were running a story about how skeletons found in the pyramids may not have been royalty. So, and that was, that was about three or four different news outlets that Google was featuring were running that same story. And it's interesting because the overall narrative there is basically, you know, people still think that these things are tombs.

[JT]

Right.

[Unknown Guest]

So it's funny to see like, people in our community talking about, oh, this lidar, man, these. There's like 2, 000ft or something of structures beneath these things.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

The mainstream still talking about them being tombs.

[JT]

Well, maybe, I mean, maybe that's the. Yeah, I didn't know. That's interesting because I was more curious about why they're telling us now because I, I'm obviously skeptical of everything they tell us. And I think that. And all the research I've done, I thought, well, of course there's things under them. I, I knew that there was things under them. Everybody's always said that there's stuff under Egypt and the idea they just found that out. I find that really hard to believe.

[Unknown Guest]

I'm actually on board with that too, that I should have probably led with that because. Because I'm very. I'm just going to watch from the bench on this. I'm just gonna see what happens. I'm scared.

[JT]

Yeah, I want to see what they're going to say. But no, it is interesting though, that if you, your favorite ancient archaeology content creator posts about this and so you still have all these skeptical people. Oh, I'm going to go see what Blah, blah, blah. The AP says about this, and then they don't get a real story. And so people are saying, oh, there's big pyramid news, and they really don't know what is. And they go to look for their biggest mainstream media outlet and they direct them to some story that's irrelevant.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, totally.

[JT]

Yeah. It's like. So that's interesting too.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, that. I thought that that was interesting. It's like they didn't even, like, Google didn't even feature a Tik Tok video or anything. And. And Tik Tok was on fire with this story that day. And it just goes to show you that some people are still pushing this old, dusty narrative that they're not tombs. I mean, maybe they buried a couple dudes in there, but that's not why they built them, in my opinion. I think that they. I think they had multiple purposes.

[JT]

What do you think they were used for?

[Unknown Guest]

Well, I think that some sort of ancient technology, some sort of maybe energy, maybe. Maybe there is something to the chemical aspect of that too. You get that word Kim Land of Kim Kemet. Yeah. And you got. And you have alchemy. If you look at the story of Isis, some of the earliest stories of alchemy involving isis, and she was talking to angels, bro. You know, that's how the story goes. At least she's. She was doing magic. She's talking to angels. She gets in touch with. With an angel. That angel cannot answer her questions. So that angel refers her to, like a. A higher angel in the hierarchy. And then she learns the mysteries, she learns alchemy. And thus alchemy is kind of born in Egypt. That's one version of the story of how that came to be. So then you have alchemy and all that. So, yeah, I think that you have a blend of ancient technology, chemistry, and maybe some other stuff happening there. But what's interesting is if you look into a guy named John Kinnaman, he's one of these archeologists that was sort of like forgotten by history. He worked for the Smithsonian at one point. But they kind of have erased this guy's legacy. But he was doing. In the 20s, he was doing work on the Great Pyramid, and he found a chamber in the south wall, and they found records stored in there.

[JT]

Oh, really? I never heard that. I've never heard that.

[Unknown Guest]

Yes, and it's been. It's been swept up. You know, it's been swept up really well. This story has. But like the. In the records, apparently they were talking about how, how they built the pyramids in the first place. And they were using anti gravity craft of some sort. So they had, they were used, they had advanced technology and they were making these probably for some other type of, for some reason involving that. And they said that the Atlanteans, the records kind of pointed back to the Atlanteans doing this, building those pyramids. And of course, so Kinnaman was under two governments at the time. He was under the British government and of course the Egyptian government. And they all got together, had a powwow and said, we're not going to talk about this. So long story short, and I know I'm running long on this response, but I think it goes back to Cain in the Bible. In Genesis, when Cain left after he killed Abel, he went off to start his own civilization. Enoch is in the bad. Enoch is in his family line. Lamech is in his family line. Lamech had two kids or three kids. Jubalcane, Tubal and a girl named Nama and another one. Actually they were kind of in charge with, with kind of watching over this knowledge that Cain had learned in the garden. But it's kind of turned into like dark knowledge at this point. It's like it's the mysteries, it's the seven sacred sciences and all that stuff. So I think that those people built the pyramid. Somebody from Kang's line, because if you look up, if you look up a term called nine vaults on Google, you'll get the Freemasons version of this story. And the Freemasons version says that Tubal Cain and his brother had stored the knowledge underneath the pyramids.

[JT]

Yeah, I've heard, I've heard that. Actually I read Gary Wayne's book, the Genesis 6 conspiracy and he talks a lot about that.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

That they believe that some of the anti diluvian knowledge was stored under there. And, and then people like Thoth or Mercury are the ones who basically released it back out into. For the people.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. So long story short, I think that if you look at the John Kinnaman story and you look at the nine vaults and the Freemasons record and a lot of the stuff. Yeah. That Gary Wayne talks about, I think the overall picture is you had an O. You have an older civilization called Atlantis or it's very Atlantis. Like all the mythologies talk about this too, like a place like that. And I think it probably started with Cain. So that's. And, but, but here's the thing, I'll be honest and about this, I don't know what they built the pyramids for. But I. I think, personally, I think they're the ones who built them.

[JT]

Yeah, I'm. I'm pretty much on board with what you're saying. I. I've, like, especially in my movie, I've believed that the older, the most probably impressive megaliths around the world, they were before the flood, and I think it had something to do with giants. So I think that that's why the blocks are so big. And all the ancient mythologies all around the world, they have. They always talk about giants being associated with stone and megaliths, so. But I think it's interesting. Yeah. Like, the. It doesn't look like it was a tomb. There was never any money found in these. In the Great Pyramid. I think it makes sense that it did have something to do with maybe like an ancient power station or. I have had Derek Olson on the podcast one time. He's really good. He's Stargate Voyager.

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, yeah.

[JT]

And he mentioned that he believed they could have something to do with some kind of healing centers, which. Which I do think is interesting that we don't really know what those shafts are made out of. If they're made of just stone, maybe they could be metallic. I mean, who knows? But does look like they had some kind of coils around them. It does kind of work with the idea that they had something to do with power. But, yeah, it's really incredible that I want to say that. The great pyramid's about 500ft, and so, like, these. These pillars or whatever they are, are four times as big as the pyramid. That's interesting because, I mean, I was just talking. Actually, I just did a live stream. My buddy Brian, who. Who was my partner on the movie, and we were both saying, like, that's really interesting. They'd be saying that out loud because I don't think they can push that nonsense about how they claim the pyramids were made in that same kind of way with something that's that massive, that's under the ground. I mean, like, it does. I mean, it. It leads people to believe. Yeah. That aliens had to do it. Something else had to do it.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

It had to be some kind of supernatural thing. It had to be. Either that or it had to have. They must have had some technology that we're not aware of, which. Which obviously they did anyways. Because I think the mainstream narratives. Story about how they built the pyramids anyways makes no sense, but it almost feels like to me, like, that they could not even try to float that idea anymore because it would be ridiculous. Yeah. Thinking like these things are bigger than, like the one World Trade center in United States, like in. In New York City.

[Unknown Guest]

Are you talking about the.

[JT]

Yeah, the buried things. That those pillars are taller than the tallest skyscrapers in America. That's un. It's unreal.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. And they were picking.

[JT]

There's eight of them.

[Unknown Guest]

Right, right, right. And they were picking up some sort of a spirals that was. I don't know if it's tubing or piping or maybe a staircase or for them to get down in there and do stuff. Who knows what that spiral is? But I thought that was interesting too. It's obviously functional. It serves a purpose.

[JT]

I mean, it doesn't seem like, like you, you wouldn't do that unless it did something. I mean, especially eight of them. That's why I said, I wonder if it had something to do with. What if they had. They were going down to some kind of water down there. Because that would make sense if it did have something to do with either healing or power.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I. I hope. I hope this pans out to be true, a true story, and that will. I hope they don't just block it off like they do everything else, like they do with Petra. They won't even let you go in down in there. Like there's. There's all these underground tunnels under Petra. That place is interesting too. That was. They lie about that place too. That was a. Was it. Herod was a. Who was. Esau Edomite. He was.

[JT]

There was stronghold. Yeah. If you actually look in the Bible, it. I think it makes references to. It talks about the fortified city. And that makes sense, that. That's, that's that place.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, exactly. Yes, man. And I think they were storing. I think that was another one of these places where they were storing knowledge personally, like. Like throughout the ages. Like they were probably. They probably had a lot of riches there and a lot of knowledge there, like records and stuff, because it's one of the most defensible places on Earth.

[JT]

And it's unreal. Unreal, unreal.

[Unknown Guest]

And like they say, I don't remember the name of the. There was a Bedouin tribe that ended up settling there at one point. The mainstream people say that the Bedouins built that.

[JT]

Yes, but it was. It makes no sense. Nomadic people built that. Yeah. Well, how does that make any sense? I mean, I think what seems plain and obvious, that the climate, the ground, all the things around those places is 100% different than when that was built.

[Unknown Guest]

Absolutely.

[JT]

Because it's like you would build that in the middle of some kind of dusty desert where you couldn't really farm and do all the, you know, what did they eat when they were there?

[Unknown Guest]

They had toilets there. They had ancient toilets there.

[JT]

There was. So. It was so. There was so much different than it used to be. I, I just, like, there's no way it was like that. And. Yeah, it makes no sense that somebody would just stumble upon that place and just start carving out mountains. It's.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah. And there was a story that came out of there recently where they saw. So if you're, you know, everybody remembers the scene from Indiana Jones and that one, that main, like, you're talking about. It's a building carved into a mountain. It's very ornate.

[JT]

There's.

[Unknown Guest]

It looks like there's like a little natural courtyard out there in front of it. Right. And, and they, there was a sinkhole or something that happened there. And they found. They started excavating it. And you could see there's a picture online they took of it. And you can see that there's a tunnel, a very elaborate tunnel system down there, and they've got that blocked off. They put like, like, you know, if you've ever been in New York City and you're walking down the sidewalk and they have those air vents, they put that, that grid type of thing on there. Like, you know, like a. Whatever it's called, like a, Like a grate. They put one of those over it and they won't let anybody down there. It's like, you know, what are you hiding here? Obviously, they're hiding something. And it's not the Bedouins who did this. It was people who had. They had one of the most advanced irrigation systems. They somehow figured out a way to reroute water in the middle of this desert to have a constant natural little flowing stream throughout. Petra and then they had these toilets. And then it was obvious that people who were like royalty were living there. And, and, and it looks like around the time when Herod built the temple that he had his masons or Knights Templar or his version of that guarding that place. So this is what excites me about talking to you. And like, just talking about this kind of stuff is like, we're on the verge of so many discoveries here. I hope, I hope this stuff blows the lid off of. Of what people think they know. Maybe what even I think I know, like, like this pyramid thing. I hope this, you know, you could get into inner earth. Who knows what. What was happening down there.

[JT]

Yeah. I think that to Me, my first reaction to the pyramid thing because. Yeah, because when I didn't know, like, maybe how big those things were, I was kind of just like, well, of course there's things under the pyramids. There's things under everything. I. In all the research I've done, there's tunnels under everything. I mean, like, everything all around America, all around that region. You know, you get into, like, places like Turkey, there's places with, like, cities under the ground where like 20,000 people could stay. I mean, the real question to me is, did those used to be tunnels or was the. Was these structures that were covered up by the earth? I mean, that's like the mud flood theory and all, whatever that was, which I don't think is really a theory. There's. There's sediment layers up to maybe, maybe not up to. In many cases, it's 45ft deep. There's things under the earth that have been buried. I mean, all of ancient Rome had to be excavated. I mean, it's really crazy. They don't teach us that in school. But if you look in just in North America, under almost every major city, there's these elaborate tunnel systems. It makes no sense. If you look at the timeline of when these. These cities were constructed. So.

[Unknown Guest]

Absolutely.

[JT]

Yeah. Of course, to me, there would obviously be tunnels under that, because there's tunnels under everywhere. Like, but they don't talk about even like you were saying, New York City. I think it's really suspect that, like, places like New York City have, like, these large areas of abandoned subways, supposedly subway systems. Like, you know, like, it's kind of like that somehow the railroads got overbuilt in America, and somehow the subways got overbuilt in New York City. Does that make any sense?

[Unknown Guest]

No.

[JT]

It seems like really a lot of trouble went to making those things.

[Unknown Guest]

So they've got tunnels under Central park there. This is what I've been told by somebody who used to work for the fort, for the. For the city there. They had to go down and there were. There were tunnels under Central park not being used, that were like 50 to 100ft underground. And this person was talking about how that's. That's just a little blip. Like, that's just one example. He said that these tunnels run under the whole city. What's that for? What was that for?

[JT]

That's a great question. That's what I'm saying. It's like you. I think it's funny. Like, you watch movies and stuff and you see them going, like, down these Abandoned parts of these cities under the ground. And you just don't think anything of it until you become an adult and you realize, like, that's really big down there. Like, that's really strange. Like, did. People were told in like, a more primitive time would have done that, only to do nothing with. Makes no. It makes no sense to me. But like, that's like, that story is consistent with everywhere. Like, you see, you know, like, places like Atlanta, it's got an underground section of it. Well, it's really small, so nobody really thinks of it. But it's like. But that's only the part they show you. Places like Seattle have an underground part, and it's kind of small, but it's. Oh, yeah, I think it likely goes under the whole footprint of the city. You know, like these. This is. This is consistent. And you have like, kind of these old world buildings in places like Chicago. And you. You hear from the people who work there. Yeah. There's tunnel systems that link all the buildings together. That's really weird that they used to do this all the time and now we do nothing like that. I don't know. It's like, to me, that's. That, I guess, you know, if. If a normie heard there's stuff under the pyramids, they'd probably be blown away and they would just say, oh, well, there's. Maybe there's a lot of interesting things under Egypt, but they don't understand that there's interesting things under their own feet.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

Probably where they live. They live in the city.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. I'm going to pull up this picture here. I want to show you this because you mentioned Seattle. And I'm like, I'm. Everything you're saying right now, I'm resonating with. Have you seen this picture before?

[JT]

Yeah. That's absolutely bonkers. Like, what was going on then.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. And I know we're talking about tunnels, but this is supposedly Seattle before. Before it was built. But, you know, if you look closely in the background, you'll see this. Shapes like this. That looks like a little building. This is obviously a building, and it looks like a modern building too, at that.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

But these mounds and. Okay, look down here at the. At the bottom too. You see how there's layers of sediment there.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And the more I looked at this picture, the more I realized this looks like rubble. Like. Like they were tearing into some sort of a structure that was down there. And like. Like, I don't know, like, it. Like if there was a building underneath this mound, it looks like they went down in there and they, you know, did away with it.

[JT]

Yeah. What I see is they were excavating this place. I think that's what I've. That's what I've come to believe. I mean, I know there's. You can never prove this, but just like, if you see if you can look up pictures of, like, the Coliseum from, like, the earliest pictures we have of that, there's. There's the same kind of mounds around it.

[Unknown Guest]

And.

[JT]

Yeah. And like, people just don't mention that the fact that. That Rome was buried, like, good portions of it. I mean, that's the funny thing is like, you know, specifically in. In Rome and. And all over Europe, they accidentally discover Roman things all the time. It's like, it's comical that they accidentally discover Roman buildings, Roman cities under the ground, and nobody even stops to wonder how a city got buried, like, fully. Yeah. I mean, and then people. I mean, like, so literally, we have built our civilization on top of an older one, but the history books don't write about that. So then you. You look all. I mean, I would say that the best evidence of the kind of stuff we're talking about here in America is the west coast, because. Not. Because these. This is not consistent all around the whole country, but it's more consistent with, like. Well, it's less feasible. I mean, the idea that there's tunnels under old cities like New York is really, you know, people could say, well, I don't know, they could justify it because it. Because people have been living in New York City for a long time. But when you see, like, timelines, like places like Seattle, like, nobody lived there, like, in the 1870s, it was like, basically nobody lived there. And then before you know, it, like, Seattle looks like it does today. And how did that happen? And the idea that it burned down, it flooded, and blah, blah, blah, and then they built on top of the older city in still, again, this very short time span. And what we're taught is that, like, that people like miners and people like that were going out there, so they had the ability to build cities twice. And they were very resilient because all their places burned down and then they just have these underground sections of it. It's. Yeah, it's comical again, like, Portland's another good example of that. I think they call it the Shanghai Tunnels under Portland. Obviously a bunch of. Bunch of shady stuff was going on and there were people getting kidnapped and. Yeah, well, a lot of times I.

[Unknown Guest]

Think they're in Utah too, man.

[JT]

Oh, I'm sure, they're every. I mean, I'm telling you, they're literally everywhere. But specifically you have places like that and they talk about prohibition and things like that. Oh, well, they were used for smuggling booze or whatever. Well, I mean, I'm sure after these tunnel. Once people realized these tunnels existed, they were used for whatever shady reasons they wanted them to use them for human trafficking and everything. But that's not why. That's not why they were built though, right?

[Unknown Guest]

You know, they were already purpose.

[JT]

They were already there.

[Unknown Guest]

They were already there. And, and yeah, I mean, we have our work cut out for us. As to the why. I mean, let me tell you about Nashville, man. We have those tunnels in Nashville. People who have lived here for a long time, everybody knows about the tunnels now. There used to be an entrance that you could go down there and, and, and explore, and it's underneath Vanderbilt. So I think all these college kids were going down there and they eventually just blocked it off. Like they have a, a locked gate down there. Now you can't get. A couple. Maybe a year or two ago, I was doing some research and I was looking at old Civil War stuff, and I came across this old newspaper. It's not in print anymore. It's called Ages in the Intelligencer. And I saw there was an article there that said Nashville. It said Subterranean Nashville. I was like, oh, this is interesting. So I read the, the article. Now this was about four or five years, if I remember, after the Civil War was over. So they were kind of. It looked like, it seemed to me like they were looking around at some of these entrances to these old tunnels that had been blown open, or maybe the, the army was using them or something. But what's interesting is they're describing what's in these tunnels and they were talking about how there was a sarcophagus in there. They were talking about how this is in Nashville, Tennessee. A sarcophagus. There was a huge vases with eastern. Some foreign language on them and all this other. Oh, they're like, like, like knives with like strange engravings on the handles and stuff. But here's the thing. Like they said the tunnel went for at least a mile underground and the tunnel came out or ended at Fort Negley, which is a star fort.

[JT]

Oh, really? That's really interesting.

[Unknown Guest]

So this.

[JT]

Really interesting.

[Unknown Guest]

This whole article, it just, it blew my mind. And like, the people in the article were talking about how, yeah, there was an ancient, they said ancient race here. There was an ancient race here, and this is evidence of their ancient civilization. So if this article is at all true, there was. Nashville's been around for a long time, guys. It's just not been called Nashville. This is like an ancient city here.

[JT]

Yeah. What's it. What's kind of funny too is that. So what, another Tennessee city is Memphis. Right. And so then you have Memphis, Egypt, which was like the capital of Egypt at one point, so Memphis, Tennessee. And then I think it's funny, you have the Bass Pro shop. It's like the 10th largest pyramid in the whole world there.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

But what's funny is like, you also had. What is it? Was it a centennial celebration in Nashville? I think in like the. Might have been 18. Whatever.

[Unknown Guest]

Like 1897 maybe.

[JT]

Yes. Yeah, something. Yeah, something like that. It was like 100 years in the union or something. And. Yeah, when they built out the Parthenon and they built a pyramid and all this stuff, of course, supposedly was all temporary, which I think it's really, really sus that they built a temporary Parthenon that's life size there. And then the people liked it so much. This is the story. They say they liked it so much that they tore the temporary one down and they built a real one. And it just. It makes no sense. Yeah, like, there's a. Literally a Parthenon in Nashville and they built that. Yeah. I don't know. I mean.

[Unknown Guest]

No, I know, man. That's.

[JT]

There's something really weird. There's something really weird about that, that I don't know why people. Anybody believes this stuff. I just can't wrap my mind around it.

[Unknown Guest]

I love this, the centennial stuff. I'm glad you brought it up. Here's one of. Here's like the pamphlet for it. And you could see. There's the Parthenon he's talking about there. And you can see these people, they have all these, like. My thing is not wanting to work with me today here. I can't blow it up for some reason. But you can see there's all this ancient stuff. It looks like, you know, artifacts and stuff. There's like a. An Asian symbol of some sort there on. On. It's just. It's eclectic right there.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And I. I think that they were finding artifacts here personally, and I think that fueled a lot of these decisions. Like, you know, like, they're. They seem to be like infatuated with Egypt because they built this pyramid. I think you mentioned that. Here it is. There's a picture of it. So they. They built that or. Or they tore it down and there's no explanation.

[JT]

Yeah. That's really weird. I mean, it's funny then all these, you know, world fair type things, they always built, really Roman things. But that's one of the rare instances where you see they built a pyramid. It's like they built. It was all Greco Roman stuff. They built. It's almost like that was already here.

[Unknown Guest]

It's almost like it was already here. And. And this is wild too, man. I gotta show you this one. So this is to the left. This picture is that pyramid. They also built this or they said they built this little building. It's called the Pythian Building. And I looked into it and there's not. It's like a secret society of some sort. There's not a lot about it on the Internet. But look at this tower back here, man. Do you see that? Looks like a. Looks like a radio tower.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

What was that doing there?

[JT]

It was probably all lit up. I mean, that's the thing. It's like the electricity was brand new, but they were like. Obviously they lit everything up in these places.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[JT]

I mean, there's pictures of it at night. Really interesting. I mean, that. That pyramid looks like it's pretty big because that Parthenon is not small. It's actually really big. Like. Like when you see it, I think was there. Isn't there a Athena's in there now? They put a statue in there and it's. I want to say it's like 36ft tall.

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, it's. It's 48 or 49ft.

[JT]

Oh, is it. Is that big? Yeah, it means huge. Huge.

[Unknown Guest]

It's. It's like. It's like being. It's not, it's not even like being in another country in Europe. It's like being somewhere further off the beaten path. You know, it's. It's just so exotic, right?

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

It's this tall goddess, she's decked out in gold. She's holding Nike, that God, the God of victory, their serpent iconography. There's stuff in there that guys like you and me could like pick apart for an hour. In that one, in a. You know, in that one room.

[JT]

You know, it's. It's. To me, the, the story of the United States really makes hardly any sense because I. I just don't see that in that time period which the United States would have been by and large a very Christian country back then. Churches everywhere. Right. You know, we're told that basically the founding fathers were Christians, but they were really deists. But at the same time, if I imagine that Places like Nashville would have been pretty conservative. And the idea that they were going to build some temple to some false God in there, I don't know, it just seems unreal. It seems unbelievable to me that people would say, you're going to spend tax money on what? On that. Nah, now we're not going to do that. Another interesting thing is I know we just played recently, we played a video on that, that podcast you mentioned, my JT's mixtape, that there was an old book about this temple that got flooded in Tennessee. I can't, I'm not sure what dam it was, but yeah, like they had this old temple and I think the people mentioned they might have some kind of connection with Egypt, but they weren't really sure.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. So I think scholars, maybe from Oxford, I'm a little hazy on the details, came in and looked at it and they said it wasn't. They thought it was an old Egyptian temple. And some of those guys said it dated back to Gobekli Tempe are older now. Imagine that. Like we're told Gobeklay Tempe is like the, the oldest site.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

On earth. Now these guys were saying there's one old as old or older in Tennessee. And what do they do? They. They told him, you have like a couple days to finish up your excavation and we're gonna dump concrete in this. Basically, they built a dam. The tva, I guess it's called. The whole area is called Lake or Teleco Lake now. It was just a river flowing through there. And I want to do a whole episode on this one day because I went and looked into that Tellico Lake region. There were seven Cherokee cities along that river there that are all flooded now. But here's the thing. The Cherokee, when they settled there, they settled on top of the ruins of some ancient civilization for sure.

[JT]

Yeah. That's really interesting. That's really interesting. I mean, I think I know that some people might get upset me saying this. I've said it on my podcast a couple times. I think what this, the history we're taught about the Native Americans, quote, unquote, Native Americans. I think it's, it's, it's fiction. I'm not saying there wasn't nomadic people who lived here, but it seems pretty crazy to me that you had all these people who lived here much longer than us and they had no structures, they built nothing. That seems really hard to believe for me. I think that the people who were here before the Europeans are forefathers. I believe it was a multi ethnic People, they were here and I think they lived in cities. Maybe some of these cities were kind of like abandoned. But I mean, I'm, I'm kind of coming to that conclusion that, yeah, it makes sense that there was things here before anybody got here.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, well, the, the rumor is about one of those Cherokee cities down there. I think it was Setiko or Situku is what they called. Apparently it had streets, I've heard it had paved streets from some accounts and they had buildings there that it was, it was like a proper city. Now did the Cherokee build that? I don't know. But because, because all the Native American legends, like you say, if you look at them, they all say no. Most of this stuff was here when we got here. It points back to an ancient race, like that article said. But here's the thing. I agree with you that ancient race was probably multi ethnic, like you're saying. I mean, that's why in the Nashville article you've got sarcophagus, you got something from, you know, basically Egypt. And, and then you have these other items down there that didn't have Egyptian hieroglyphs on them. They had some other language. They look like Greek or something. Right. And then, and then you've got the, when you look at the old ships they found on the Mississippi, you've got the. It looks like the Phoenicians were here. There's evidence that the Minoans were here. I have an old article or a new article about how they found. They just found a, an, a canaanite ship that's 3, 400 years old. So the Canaanites were probably coming over here too.

[JT]

Well, that's interesting because a lot of people have connected, you know, like the, the Phoenicians would have been Canaanites, you know, like that maybe sometimes, maybe it's just a, a semantic issue, but I mean, I think some people have connected the Philistines as being Phoenicians because they were known, I think to the Egyptians as sea people. Yeah, it's kind of interesting, like. But I mean, I don't think that mainstream, the mainstream history is trying to corroborate things that are biblical.

[Unknown Guest]

No.

[JT]

So that's probably why we don't get told that. You know, it's interesting too, as I, I did along when I was back when I was focused on Tick tock and I was making lots of videos, I did quite a few videos about the Hoover Dam and I thought it was really interesting when I found out when they created the Hoover Dam, Lake Mead flooded out I don't even know how many acres. I mean like ridiculous amount of, amount of stuff. But there was a. Supposedly there was an Anasazi city under there. And so Anasazi means ancient ones. And I think like the Hopi and the Pueblo Indians, I, I believe they claim ancestry back to the Anasazi. Well, the city that was flooded there, they said there were structures that were up to a hundred rooms in there. So like you, I know when, when I originally thought a city, like kind of a Native American city, I'm thinking like mud huts. But if something had a hundred rooms in it, that's not a mud hut, that's like a legit, that's a legit building. So what's under there? I mean, the thing I'm saying is not, is not a conspiracy because you can look it up. I think there's, it might be even like lake me.gov like there's a story, it'll tell you that. Because I read it straight off their website. I was like, whoa, that's, that's insane. So I mean like the Anasazi, we're told, was this civilization that was here a thousand years before basically anybody got here and they just disappeared. That's really weird. That's really weird. So, I mean, so there was obviously things here. And I think that if you go out west, there is like cliff dwellings and weird stuff like that. And they, the Anasazi's always given credit for it. But I don't know, to me it seems strange that if there wasn't things out east that people built, because if there's things that are thousand years old out west, why wouldn't there be things here on the, on the eastern part of the United States?

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah. I mean there's, there's a lot of evidence. This is where it's hard to explain this to people. It. Because I, I think you have giants in the mix. It's hard to convince some people of that. You know, I, I think that a lot of these people we're talking about who, who predate the Native Americans were possibly giants. I mean, they said that they were.

[JT]

Well, yeah, if you ask them, that's what they'll say.

[Unknown Guest]

So, you know, there's that and then, then there you have to kind of go into this idea that there may have been a cover up. And I think that there was, I mean there was a guy who worked for the Smithsonian. His name is John Wesley Powell. One of the things he. Very interesting guy, man. Like he was a part. Just a side note, he Was a part of what's called the Cosmos Club. If you ever get a wild hair look into that, it's. They. Their building is still in Washington D.C. it looks like a. Like a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, like X Men type place. It's still there. He was a part of this weird. And I think they had like an airship society there of some sort. But he was like one of these elite guys who worked for the Smithsonian who had his. His hands on all these different pies. One of the things he was tasked with was like directing the. The rail, the railway, like where they're going to build the railroads. And when you look into it, the story, he goes, he blazes right through these ancient sites and they demolish them and put a railroad through there. And it's almost like they did that intentionally. Like they, they wanted to clean up. They wanted to, you know, Manifest Destiny. Right. That's what I think. Teleco Lake and the dam there and the old temple there, why that's all underwater today. I think that falls under this great idea that people had to. To cover things up for Manifest Destiny. Like we. We need these people to look like savages so we can justify coming in here and taking their land.

[JT]

Yeah, I. That makes sense to me. You know, it wasn't. Powell was also the one who named all the temples in the Grand Canyon, all the rock formations. Right? Yeah, he was the one who did. So obviously, if you go, there's another real famous dam in Utah. I forgot what that one's called, but it created Lake Powell. As a kid, my. My family went up there and we, we, we stayed on a houseboat for a week there. Really amazing place. But yeah, so there's all kinds of Arizona. That's in Utah.

[Unknown Guest]

Okay. Okay.

[JT]

Yeah, that's in Utah. And so I think that there's also other cities that are under Lake Powell. Really? It's a real. I mean, if you wanted to, if you believe in other planets, like the way that you're taught, that place looks like another one. Like so many of those places. Some of these places out there just look so crazy with all the limestone and just weird rock formations.

[Unknown Guest]

I was thinking about Lake Powell. Like, it's either Lake Powell that you're talking about, or it's another lake very similar to it that where they filmed the Plan of the Apes movie. Because it looks like it's another planet out there.

[JT]

I believe it. There was another place we went. I met my buddy Brian, who I said I partners with on quite a few ventures. But my wife and I went out to Vegas and there's a place called the Valley of Fire, probably about a little, little under an hour outside of Vegas. And that's one of those places that looks like it's been melted. And you go, and there's like the rocks and just the weird things you, you. It does not look like, like real life when you go there. And if there's, I think I want to say it was called domes. White domes is the trail. And there's a sign of all the Hollywood movies that were filmed there because it's, because it is, it's like this is the. If you wanted to make a movie about Mars, film it here. Because that's what it, that's what you could imagine it would look like.

[Unknown Guest]

I think that, I think there's multiple ways that they erased these sites and I think railways was just one way. I think the dams for sure was another way. Because I've looked into the numbers for the dams, which is really strange. There's, it's hard to get like a real clear cut number for dams. I think what I saw was upwards to 85,000 in North America. And then I was looking for a worldwide number of dams and the number I kept getting was 60,000 worldwide, but yet they're saying we have like89,000 here. So.

[JT]

Yeah, I just looked it up. I just looked it up because I've, I've, I've, you know, I've, I've probably misquoted a stat because I knew, I heard that like 90 of the dams in the world were in the United States. And then I looked it up and then they said there was a lot more in China. But it says that in 2022 there was nearly 92, 000 dams in the United States.

[Unknown Guest]

So what?

[JT]

Like that seems, seems almost impossible. I don't know how that even works.

[Unknown Guest]

That seems, look, I can kind of get behind that number because we are the United States. We should have a good handle on how many dams are here. It seems like the worldwide number was a little off.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Or if the worldwide number was real, that means we have 90,000 of them here compared to the rest of the world, who only has, who has less than 90,000. But anyways, like, I don't know what's up with the numbers there, but. Okay, let's say we have 90,000 dams here. Those that, that could account for tons of ancient sites.

[JT]

Yeah, that's 90,000 lakes, right?

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

So like.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

What's under those lakes?

[Unknown Guest]

Right.

[JT]

All those valleys that were flooded Yeah, I mean, there's, there's just really no telling. I mean, but yeah, like that. We already know that just based on not being conspiratorial. We know that there's ancient cities under there in Tennessee. There's an ancient temple under there. But yeah, the normies have no idea about any of that stuff. They don't care, I guess.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, I think it's just like the star fort thing, man. It's like, I have fun with this at work.

[JT]

Star forts are fascinating.

[Unknown Guest]

They are fascinating. And I was going, when I found out about them a couple of years ago, I was going around to all like my, my quote, normie friends. I love them, but, you know, they're not, they're not into this stuff, so. And I was asking them, have you ever heard of a star for. Nobody had ever heard of them. People just because it, because it wasn't talked about in school.

[JT]

There's.

[Unknown Guest]

I don't know if there's a documentary out now or not, but there's not in any of the documentaries. It's like this strange, bizarre, really interesting element of our past. Star forts has never been talked about. And why is that? Why is that? But they're all over the place, people.

[JT]

You would think that, you would think that we'd be taught about them because they're so impressive. Because, I mean, I think that when you do, when you do learn a little bit about them. Yeah, there's. It's something that should be in the history books because they are like incredible feats of engineering. And not just the structure, because literally those things are like the lane is terraformed to create them. So not only did they create the most elaborate, like, brick and stone structures you could ever imagine, but yeah, literally the ground is terraformed to form this. And a lot of times in many cases they have like canals around them. I mean, and they did this when. How? I think that's why they don't tell you about it because, well, for one, there's the when in the when is is wrong and the how is definitely wrong. So I think that they just rather just not talk about it.

[Unknown Guest]

That's why I love that article so much. Like, just, I'm. I'm like, so grateful that I ran into that strange article about Nashville because that, that kind of points to this too, that these star forts are older. Like, they, they, they predate the modern era. They go back to an older time or something.

[JT]

Have you ever read John Levi's book? You know, John Levi's on YouTube. He's a really got a great channel as far as, like, kind of like lost history. He read a book called Evidence of the Old World.

[Unknown Guest]

Okay, I haven't read that. I'm gonna check it out.

[JT]

But, yeah, you should definitely check it out. It's. It mostly centers around San Francisco. And the beginning of the book kind of talks about how San Francisco is on older maps, like, from, like, the 1500s, and. But which is a problem for this narrative because supposedly San Francisco was not discovered by the Spanish until 1776. So it appears on maps over 200 years before it was ever discovered. It's literally on there saying San Francisco, like, in that area. And so he goes on to talk about some of these maps from the 1500s. Well, you said. You said before that you were from North Carolina, so I'm sure you're aware of the lost colony of Roanoke Island. So where I'm at in Virginia, we're really close to Jamestown, which is the first permanent British settlement in the country. It would have been Roanoke Island. But we don't know what happened to them. That's why they call them the Lost Colony. But John Smith, I believe he was the head guy at. In Roanoke Island. And the story goes that he went back to Great Britain for supplies, and he doesn't come back for three years. I guess that's kind of weird to me. But he doesn't come back for three years, and when he gets back, there's no one there. That's the story. What happened to him? Was it giants? Did they all die of some kind of thing? I don't know. Was it just Native Americans killed him? We don't really know. That's really not important for this story because the interesting part was that John Smith, while he was there, he was working on maps. So he mapped the area very accurately. And so what was really interesting is they have this really old map. I think it's from like 1515 or 1517 somewhere in that range. And there's a river that kind of comes out to where the colony was, and it forks at one point, and there was a patch over this old map. And somebody used lidar or some kind of. I'm not exactly sure how what the kind of means. They did to look under what the patch was. And under the patch was a star. For now, if you think about it. So this would have been before Jamestown. We know that those people didn't build the star fort.

[Unknown Guest]

Right?

[JT]

So the star fort was already there. And if the star fort was already there, well, then who built it? And when you Know, like that. I mean, it makes sense to me that that technology, whatever those things were used for, it, they. They're called bastion forts is what the mainstream calls them. But it's funny, like, so there's. There's star forts in a lot of places. Another one, there's a. I think maybe one of the reasons they talk about that is because there was actually one called Fort San Francisco also makes no sense when they built it. And there's several. Even, like, actually even where I live, there's one of the biggest ones in America. I think it's called Fort Monroe. And it's. It's on the water. Makes no sense. So, like, in America, they just put a couple cannons on them and they say that there were forts, but they were. They're so elaborate. But if you actually look up, like, the. Basically how successful they were, they were terrible. So, like, there are these very elaborate structures that failed when they were attacked enough. So is that really what they were used for? And I think that some people who have done this kind of research, they think that the star fort had something to do with, again, energy. That's why it has this certain geometric pattern. That's why there's moats and water around them. I think. I mean, I'm willing to believe anything besides what they tell us because, like, when you look at how many bricks were involved in these structures and when they. They were built, the worst one, I think, is. You ever heard of Fort Jefferson? That's off the coast of Florida.

[Unknown Guest]

Is it, like, way out in the middle of the ocean?

[JT]

Yeah, it's like 70 miles outside off the coast of Florida. And it's on this tiny little island. The. Basically the. The whole fort is. Is this island. And yeah, they. There's not even fresh water in this place. And they say it was built in, I guess, the late 1800s. Makes no sense. It's actually, I think they say it's the largest masonary structure as far as the number of bricks in the whole Western hemisphere. And suppose it was built by, like, prisoners and slaves and whatever else. And. Yeah, yeah, it was basically abandoned almost after. Before it was even completed. Like I said, if you believe that, I mean, there's not much I can do for you.

[Unknown Guest]

That. That's a. That's a weird one, man. That they would put that out there in the middle of the Ocean. I mean, that's 70. 70 miles offshore. What's the. What's the point?

[JT]

And it's. And it's also that around the same time, what we're Told is, I forgot they called it. I forgot there was some kind of strategic planning where they, they were putting these things out there. These, these bastion forts is what we're told and had something to do with like the war of 1812 because we were fighting the British. But this is literally on like the interior side of the Gulf. So it's not even like, like who would have attacked from that kind of vantage point. I, I have no idea.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. Look at this place. It, it's amazing.

[JT]

Yeah. It's like 70 miles off of Key West, I think.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

So it's way out there and again, there's no fresh water there.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. And I mean, just the sheer number of bricks that it would.

[JT]

I think it was like 16 million or something like that. It's might even more than that.

[Unknown Guest]

It's like, who built that? How did they have the resources in the time.

[JT]

And look at it. Look how it goes right up to the water right there. It's like, who is doing that?

[Unknown Guest]

I, you know, I, I, this one, this one's a head scratcher for me.

[JT]

No, I mean, I made a, a short on that and I, it was pretty successful and I did like some people's conclusions, like, what if that was. What if there wasn't water between Florida and there's when that thing was built.

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, yeah. Well, there you go. That.

[JT]

Okay, that makes more sense. That makes more sense to me. If not, the people who built it were really, really advanced. Could be either one.

[Unknown Guest]

I, I can see that actually, because something happened, I believe something happened with the water. Like, you know, you've got the old maps. I'm thinking then probably 1500s is the one I looked at somewhere. And it had, it had a California as an island.

[JT]

Yeah. That's really interesting too.

[Unknown Guest]

So that would suggest that things were a little bit different with water, water lines and all that. And like, I looked into Antarctica and I don't remember the, the proper name for this map. I usually call it the Terra Australis map, but you look at that map, you look at the very bottom of, of South America, there's like a little strip of water between Antarctica and South America.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And yet they, they say that at the time when this map was made, nobody knew what Antarctica was.

[JT]

Yeah. It was in, supposedly was not discovered until the 1800s.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, right, right, exactly. So, but there's just little strip of water in between the two. So it looks like, it looks like at one point South America and Antarctica either touched or, you know, they, they almost touched.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Which is, which is Interesting, because that, that brings up the, you know, you think about the Perisa map that seems to show the South American coastline going all the way down to Antarctica. Like that there, you know, there was, it was just one solid land mass. Kind of suggests that and that the temperatures down there were different and everything.

[JT]

Yeah, I can believe that. I mean it's, it's sort of funny that they think were told about climate change all the time and they're always talking about how the water levels are going to rise and things are going to change. And you know, they're always predicting impending doom. It seems really strange that that would never have happened in our recent past that the coastlines could change. Right.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, right.

[JT]

I mean, I think to me that seems really obvious. I think that there's lots of things under the water. I think. What do they call that? Is it the Bimini Road off of Florida that, that some people have said, whoa, maybe that was Atlantis. I don't think that was Atlantis. I think that was just something that was probably above the water and now it's not. There's lots of things like that all around the world. I think that it seems obvious to me that. Yeah. That the coastlines have changed.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

Because there's, there's. I mean, I believe it's, you know, so you, the Greeks had the mythologies about Atlantis. There was somewhere off of, I guess the. What is it? The, the Rock of Rock of Gibraltar was they called like the, the Pillars of Hercules. So it's be somewhere out in the Atlantic. And then the people in the Pacific had these legends of this place called Lemur Lemuria. Right. And it was a real similar story. Yeah, I mean, I think it makes sense that there was something out there because you have places like Easter island, it's so remote. Even the Hawaiian islands are very remote. If you think about it like makes sense that there was another land mass out there because the Pacific is kind of unusual that it's so big compared to all the other oceans of the world. Maybe there was more land out that way. Makes sense to me.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, I mean all those people, whoever they were, the people who built like Easter island and, and stuff. There's, there's a lot of evidence that they came over here to. Or they came to South America too, big time. Like there's a guy I had on his name, he goes by Pillars of the Past on Instagram, he, he goes out and he goes to these remote places in Peru and he finds all these ancient, un undocumented ancient structures, cities. I mean It. What the guys found is he's like one of the best kept secrets on the Internet, for sure. He's, he's just going out there and finding, like, undocumented ancient civilizations. And some of the places he goes are documented. And I was looking into some of them and I was just kind of looking into the ancient or the, the legends that those people had, like their mythologies and stuff. And, and all those people on the coastline of the, of the, on the Pacific side of South America, they all had legends that their people came from the, across the ocean.

[JT]

Yeah, all the, all the mythologies. And I think that's why I said when we did ancient, ancient angels, it's all about that kind of stuff, because the, when you actually hear the real stories that people told, they're really interesting. Even like the whole idea of like, Quixel Quotal, the plume serpent, this being that came over and he was a man described as a man, a white man with a beard. And they, this person claimed he came from some place that flooded. It's really weird. That's really weird. He taught these people all kinds of stuff. I mean, like, that, that legend is again, it's, like, too crazy to make up. Like, why would they make that up?

[Unknown Guest]

And it's. You see, that legend just duplicated in all these other. It's all the flood legend is everywhere. You can't get away from that. And, you know, too, like, with, with like Cusco and those, the, the blocks, the megalithic walls there, there's, there's an identical wall on Easter Island. So it just makes sense that they, they came from, from there, you know?

[JT]

Yeah, that's interesting you say that too, because they don't, they don't often reference any kind of structures on Easter Island. They really only talk about the Moai.

[Unknown Guest]

They won't talk about that wall. They. It's, they pick and choose. And, and like going back to something we talked about earlier, the Moai, those are the ones that are, they were buried up to their necks. Right now we're finding out that there's a hole and it's like, it's like what's underneath that though, right?

[JT]

What's under the, all the ground? I mean, maybe there, maybe there's, there's stone and everything under. Maybe they were placed on stone, maybe they were never placed on dirt. I mean, the, it. I think, to me, just like going back to talking about the pyramids, I think it's ridiculous that they didn't know things were buried under them, under the pyramids until now, if that's true, I mean, I, I obviously have skeptical that they didn't already know all that stuff, but I think it's comical that they said they just realized very recently that they have bodies. Like, nobody to stop to see, like, how far down they go. Like, wouldn't you have done that early on? Like, you could say, hey, do you think that you think these things are cut off at the very ground level? Let's just see. You would probably immediately say, I wonder how far down they go, because obviously there's no base here.

[Unknown Guest]

Right, right. I think that they, whoever looked wasn't allowed to talk about it. Probably.

[JT]

Yeah, I think, yeah, I think again, that's, that's something they obviously knew because an idiot could realize that they were not. That wasn't the bottom of it. So how far down does it go?

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah. When you're, when you're excavating it, you didn't think to like to dig down and see what was, you know, let's see if there's more stone down here below ground. Like somebody should have. Somebody could have at least looked two feet down there.

[JT]

Yeah, I think they obviously dug down. They found out very early and they just only told us recently.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[JT]

Because. Yeah, it's ridiculous to think they didn't know, but.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

So then why don't they talk about the other things on Easter Island? I think the reason why I was really fascinated back in the day with watching ancient aliens, I never found their conclusions very satisfying. I thought they were really dumb, but I never heard about all these places, you know, And I think that that's really what, that's why the show was interesting to me, because I'd never seen about metagolithic things all over, like you're saying in Cusco and the stuff in South America was mind blowing.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, it's like Chariots of the Gods for me. Like, I love that documentary. I don't know if you've ever seen.

[JT]

That, I'm sure, yeah, I've seen it because I kind of got into all that stuff when, when I was watching and I was just saying, like, that I couldn't get enough of like, all the, the megaliths. It was so interesting, like, who did this? And so I, I thought that the show did a good job of asking questions and poking holes in the, the mainstream narrative. Again, I didn't, I don't agree with their conclusions, but I think, yeah, again, like, people do have to wrestle with that if, like, we're taught that men had this very linear Progression. Right. They came out of caves and then they became hunter gatherers and then they learned how to farm and then they just built the craziest thing you've ever seen in your whole life right after that. Because that's basically when they say ancient Egypt started. Right. They immediately started building pyramids. Before doing that was like the first cities they made. I mean it makes no sense because you can obviously tell just based on even the way that the empires are written about in the Bible that there was peaks and there's valleys. Like, I mean obviously again there's a worldwide valley and it's called the flood. And it's not just, it's not just Christian people who talk about the flood. It's the, the flood mythos is everywhere. Everyone talked about all around the world. There was a time when gods were here, there was a time with giants and then there was a giant flood. And then, and then, and you could see like why people would not know about the things. Like so that's not a reason that, that's, that doesn't give you a lot of answers about the pre flood stuff, but it gives you a reason why we don't know more about it.

[Unknown Guest]

Sure, sure. I mean we know that.

[JT]

We, we know the big parts of it.

[Unknown Guest]

Right, right. That's why I'm, I'm like flirting around with this idea that some of this technology goes back to the Garden of Eden and, and Cain brought it with him when he left. I, because it's, it's a, it's, it's. I'm a Christian, so I like that it kind of parallels with what the Bible's telling us that idea does. And, but also it's like for a long time there I thought that maybe this information came out of Genesis 6 and the Watchers, because we know they came down and they gave man technology too. But I think it goes back before that now to the garden and who knows how long ago that was. You know, like that might explain why the pyramids are so much older. Like, and like we said before, I think you said that like they're, we're talking about how they're pre flood. Right. Because you know, Dr. Robert, Dr. Robert Schoch talks about all that water damage on the Sphinx.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

You know, that's probably goes back to this flood that we're talking about. Right. Or.

[JT]

Yeah, I think so.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. Yeah. So. And I don't know where I was going with that other than, you know, I think you can find answers for this stuff in the old text and, and Especially the Bible. I know people don't want to hear that, but for me, in my research, the Bible stands up time and time again. Like when you put it to the test, like, oh, yeah, about all the stuff that's in there. If you read through the Old Testament, if you've never read it before, read through it, you're going to be blown away by the. The accuracy of. It's like a map. They tell you. They're like, oh, we went to this river, then we went, you know, up to this town, and then we turned and we went to this mountain range. And then over the mountain range we went to this other town. And they tell you the names of all these places, and those are still. Those are real places. A lot of those valleys and those wadis, they're. They're the same name as they were back then. It checks out.

[JT]

Well, I've actually. The research I've done recently, and I've done some timeline stuff, I think that the reason why the Bible's so accurate is, like, it's literally the oldest history book we have. And I think it's been used to corroborate things. I know that the modern history people would not like to hear that. But, yeah, there are certain things in the Bible that they would try to debunk and they would say, oh, the Hittites were not in this region. And then they find evidence that they were. There's lots of things in the Old Testament that are like that. But, yeah, I do believe that if you go into the Book of Enoch, it mentions that the Watchers taught men how to do things. And if you've ever seen that movie, that Marvel movie, the Eternals, you've ever seen that one?

[Unknown Guest]

I don't think so. Actually.

[JT]

It's really not all that good, but it's interesting for this. So in that movie comes from obviously a comic book. The Eternals. Who are the Eternals? They're angels, right? So, like, these angels are supposed to come down and they're supposed to help humanity, but they're not supposed to interfere. It's. It's the story of the Watchers. The very beginning of the movie starts out with, like, these monsters are trying to attack these primitive people. And so these Eternals come down and save them from these monsters. And then at one point, I guess the kid drops a knife or something, and then the woman picks it up. The woman, angel, whatever, the Eternal, she picks it up and when she's holding in her hand it all sudden it turns gold and, like, turns into, like, this advanced looking weapon. And it's like she gives it to him. It's like, it's, that's literally how the movie starts. It's like they're showing you this. And then there was another character eternal in that movie. Every now and then they would introduce technology to them, to the people. I mean, it's like, it's so obvious. Like this is, like this is what they're saying.

[Unknown Guest]

Like that's what that book of Enoch. Because it explains everything.

[JT]

Well, it makes, it makes sense that, that whether you believe the book of Enoch should be in the scriptures or not. I think this story is a worldwide story.

[Unknown Guest]

Absolutely.

[JT]

So some people would say, oh, the Bible's copying off these older myths or legends and stuff. It's like, no, there was, this is one story. So if the Bible story sounds similar to this other Sumerian story about the Anunnaki or whatever, it's not because the Bible was copying off this. It's because, like, how true is that story? I believe the story is true. Now how accurate is the depictions in the other mythology? I think it's all one story and people around the world are telling that story. So there's shades of difference. And like you can imagine even like the Tower of Babel story in the Bible is that God confused the languages, but they all have this same story and it's told in a different language, it's told by different people in different places. Yeah, that story happened. I mean, I think there's, there's so much proof of it that again. Well, I mean it was a proof. There's, there's evidences everywhere. The evidence is overwhelming. That to me, that is proof.

[Unknown Guest]

I think so too. And I think it's fun to go in and look at the old Sumerian myths because I see all the, I see the biblical parallels for sure. Yeah, I see the, the same story that's been twisted a little bit and told a little differently. And, and I think, for example, so I, I did a show with Justin Brown from Prometheus Lens and we were talking about Anunaki and you know, we're talking about the Anu Malish and all that. And this is just my opinion, but, but what I kind of walked away with after researching that was that this story that these Anunnaki came down here and were mining for gold and were, you know, created humans or created humanity so that we could help them mine for gold. That to me, I got into that and I started thinking, I had this thought coming to my head and I was like, that sounds like a story that's been retold by somebody who wants to control humans. You know, just, just all the little, all the little changes that were made in that story, if you put it up against the Bible, it seems like somebody came through, took the real story and manipulated it a little bit so that we could feel like, you know, we are subservient to these, these entities. Like they created us, you know, they control us. I, I don't know, man. That's just, I don't know if that.

[JT]

Well, you know, the thing, the interesting part about that, I know you're probably aware of Michael Heiser, right. So he famously called out Zachariah Stitchin, like so he's, you know, Zachariah Stitch. And famously he translate, translated the Sumerian tablets and learning about Nibiru and all the outer space stuff in, in the Sumerian tablets. He's. No, he did not like. So what do those tablets really, really say? I think that a lot of the stories that get repeated even by people like us, I think that these people never talked about being from another planet again. Again, the stories that are the mythologies, it's always like these beings came down from the heavens. I don't know if it says that it created man, but it does make sense. Let's just say from the, the things that I do know about the story, it's like you have this God race that comes down, manipulates man's DNA and then uses him. I mean that's the story of the Watchers. To me, like that they genetic manipulation is one of the reasons I think that the flood was caused God sent the flood is because all flesh had corrupted its ways. That's what it says in the Book of Enoch, that this new race of beings were cannibalistic. They were horrible. And it said in the Bible, it says that the Noah was pure in his generations. So God sent a flood because he needed to wipe the slate clean. He kept one righteous man who's related his generations were pure back to Adam. Yeah. So that story makes sense to me. I think that. But it makes, but it also makes sense that why we are kind of inundated with like ideas of, of aliens, advanced aliens. Because it's not a new story, it's. It's a more of a twist on a old story.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, absolutely. I'm gonna take this a step further too, because I think it was Sitchin's like you said translation that kind of breaks down that, that humans were like created by, by these Anunnaki and If you look in the Sitchin and you, and you start listening to people in his inner circle, there are a lot of people that were really close to him who would say, you know, not quite out, out loud but like, you know, here and there in like hush tones. They would say, you know, Sitchin, you know, he gets his information from, from the other side. Like he's like, he's in touch with one of these entities and they're dictating stuff. So that's the, like, that's the inner circle story is that he was like channeling this information. And that's why I think if that's true because you see that with Nazis and Lovecraft and Crowley and everybody else, they think they're getting this information from somebody else or something else. If that's true, that's why I think that this is a major deception in that story.

[JT]

Oh, 100. That's the interesting part is like, yeah, the, the Crowley famously said that, that now we call him angels and demons, but one day we're going to call them something else. And then he draws that being lamb that looks just like a gray alien. Like just like straight out of like a Spielberg movie that, that looks like an alien. So now it's like that's why that was the main reason we made ancient angels. Because I felt like that they, they were trying to write aliens back into our past. And so it'll make more sense to, for the, the coming deception about, you know, quote unquote, aliens. You know, angels are not really from Earth either. So like they could technically be called aliens and almost like just by definition they could be called aliens. Now we don't believe they come from Mars or you know, whatever planet you want to talk about in the sky, but I, I do think it makes sense. And it's also interesting.

[Unknown Guest]

Well, there's also, there's not just one type of, of angel. Right?

[JT]

That's true.

[Unknown Guest]

Like seraphim, terraphor or not terror, seraphim, cherubim. There's, there's a couple others. But then there's also like in the Bible where it talks about the host of heaven and there's all these interesting verses you got, you know, you brought up Heiser, you know, you look at Deuteronomy 32, talks about the divine council. I think that there's like a, a whole panel of these different type of entities. Like we could even go so far I would call them non human entities because technically that's what they are. I'm not saying they're green aliens. But I think there's like, a hierarchy to these, to the angelic realm.

[JT]

Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. We, you know, we probably almost dogmatically just refer to everything from heaven that's not either a deceased saint, you know, like a person who was up there and has been resurrected and is in heaven versus, like, who's not God. They're just angels. But the Bible really doesn't call them all angels. An angel is a messenger. It's like, it's a duty. So, like, an angel comes. That's why when. When they appear on Earth, they're usually delivering a message, so that's why they're called angels. But more accurate is they're called sons of God, as they're called in the Book of Job and also in Genesis 6. And then also, yeah, they're the host of heaven, so they could be anything. Like, I mean, the thing is, like, the Bible really doesn't tell you exactly what they are. It's probably because. It's because there is an allure to angels and heavenly beings, divine beings, that we're not supposed to be fascinated with them. So that's probably why the story does not focus on them so much, because, you know, that's really a big problem in the world is worshiping of angels. That's what. That's what all the false gods are. I think. I believe that they're angels. So, yeah, that's. That's really interesting. But I was going to say that I found it really interesting also that guys like Graham Hancock, who I was really interested in, I read his book and. And he used to go on Joe Rogan a lot. And so in that. On that podcast, he would often talk about megaliths, and then he would talk about dmt, he would talk about ayahuasca. And so it was his belief. And I think that he's. Now, he's got that. That pretty successful show on Netflix called Ancient Apocalypse. Well, I did an episode with Derek Olson. We're breaking it down. He was talking about ayahuasca. And he was saying that under this. This drug and the influence of a shaman, a medicine doctor, they. They take this thing and they call it, you know, ayahuasca translates into vine of the Dead. And they, they drink this stuff, they trip like crazy, and they go on some psychedelic trip. And these people interact with the same entity on this trip, and they see different geometric shapes and all that kind of stuff. I mean, it's really fascinating that, that if these people would claim that giants built these places, and then they encounter entities under this sorcery pharmacia. Yeah, they could actually literally be encountering the beings who created those. Those things. Because in the Book of Enoch it said that the Nephilim, the deceased giants, they became unclean spirits on the earth. And those are your demons. Like, that's what demons are. That's. Those are. Those are what normies would call ghosts, because ghosts are not like your grandma, when she dies. A ghost is a. Is a spirit, an unclean spirit that came from a being that really does not belong. And that's why it's. That's why it stays here.

[Unknown Guest]

The disembodied spirits. You. I think the Book of Enoch talks about that too.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Yep.

[JT]

The unclean spirits that were, were. Some were put in the bottomless pit, and some were destined to roam the earth as unclean spirits.

[Unknown Guest]

Well, let. Let me hit you with this, man. And I'm going to apologize to everybody because I've. I've told this story quite a bit, but I have to tell you this because it fits in perfectly. I ran into a guy in Nashville at like a writers round, and we just, somehow we got to talking about. He knew about that pyramid picture that we looked at earlier. Like, he knew about the. I was like, man, I think there was like an ancient civilization here. He's like, yeah, there was 100. He knew about all this stuff. So I was like. So we struck up a conversation and I got his number and all that, and we. And we continued to talk and I, I wanted to get him on, and I still haven't been able to get him on. But anyways, he told me the story on the phone one night about dmt, about a DMT experience he had. And he was saying that every time he would. He went into the DMT realm, the same entity came to him, approached him, and they struck up like, almost like a weird type of a friendship. He knew the. The entity's name and whenever he was done, because those trips, I think last 15 to 20 minutes, whenever he was done, you know, he'd come back to this realm or whatever, right. And if he was to take it again, even if it was two weeks later, he'd still run into that same entity. And they would pick up the conversation where they had left it off. And so he's telling me about all this and then he told me the name of the entity and I was like, dude, I was like, have you heard that before? He's like, no, I'm like, I. I know that name. I. I found it in my research, it's an old Friesian entity, like from a Nordic type of mythology.

[JT]

Oh.

[Unknown Guest]

And like, yeah, I got like cold chills from it and everything. And I've been trying to get the guy to come on and to tell this story, but it's like I, He's. He, he did DMT quite a bit. I feel. I don't, you know, whatever. I've told the story, I guess I can't take it back at this point. But, like, this happened to him every time he went in there. And I just thought that that was astounding.

[JT]

Yeah, that's. I mean, it's really spooky. I mean, I remember hearing that before I understood kind of the spiritual realm and you know, as well, I mean, is the limit as I do now understand it. But I remember listening that podcast and I remember thinking like, that it was really weird that people take DMT and they see gestures and, and all the same kind of things. It's like, that's because, you know, I've never done psychedelics. You know, I was never like a perfect person, but I, I didn't, I didn't. I never went that far. But when, I guess when I was always told about drugs and like the DARE program, I just always imagined just people just imagining just the wildest things. And it was. There was no consistency to it. But then you have these people having these very similar experiences where it's like, it can't be a coincidence. I don't believe. And again, that people today, like, especially in America, just do drugs for pleasure. But that's really not how they're used in other places. I mean, like, literally, you have to go under the guise of a witch doctor in this jungle. It's like these ceremonies are old and these people talk about encountering their ancestors. That's why they call it the vine of the dead. But again, you're not going to encounter somebody you're related to because people you're related to, they die. Their spirit does not remain here afterwards. So the spirits that do remain are likely remnants of giants in Nephilim, wicked beings too, because again, like, that's why God flooded the earth. These beings were horrible. So that's why, in the same way that you have places like in South America where like the Aztecs were sacrificing people to appease these same ancestors. I mean, so, like, you understand what kind of level of spirit this is that you're. You're communing with. And I do know that. I mean, at least people will tell you that these, these entities might be friendly at first because probably because they're trying to reel you in and they're probably trying to get their hooks in you. I think there's a lot to do with the fact that in this place we live in, it operates on some kind of authority and access to people. So like, if you give people access to your person, then it's kind of like that's God's rules. You know, they can't just immediately possess you, but if you give them an opening or maybe even given somebody, you might be able to give these beings an opening for your child even before they're old enough to be aware. But I think that's how everything operates. And yeah, if you went under the guise of a shaman and you're taking these, these illicit drugs in this, in this ceremony, yeah, you've definitely given yourself access to this being. And I mean, I, I don't know. I mean, I can only speculate what the result will ultimately be.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah. And, and another thing about the shamanism is that's another worldwide thing. You see it in just about every culture, every culture that's still somewhat in touch with their ancient or older traditions have some sort of a shaman tradition. And, and the shaman is, is to serve as this liaison between the people and the, the other side.

[JT]

And wasn't it, isn't it kind of even interesting, even, even biblically, like if you read like the Old Testament law, who would be considered their doctors would be the priests. Right. So God tells the priests how to treat wounds and leprosy and all that kind of stuff. It's the priests who do it. So it's kind of like that we have tried, you know, like in today's society, everything's really compartmentalized. But, but back then it was like you go to the priests to get healed, so they did too. But obviously they're not serving the same God as us. So.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, you know. Yeah, I, I found this really cool post that it was an archaeologist. He, they found a, a shaman's kit and it, you know, it's funny because it actually looks quite a bit like those old carvings where the, the entities are holding that hand basket.

[JT]

Oh yeah, the little bag.

[Unknown Guest]

It looks like weird, but it was like, it was like a leather bound pouch that the shamans would carry around. And what they did was this guy had taken a picture of this. They, they laid out all the ingredients that was in the shaman's kit. And it was like horse hair crystals, just a lot of really random stuff that like the modern man has no use for. But, you know, this was stuff for rituals, right? But also herbs. So it looked like it was for a ritual. Magic and healing, like, you're saying they served a dual purpose. And you see this in like. So my dad went to Haiti one time on some sort of a missions trip, and he said that they were in the Haitian jungle and they were all piled on the back of this truck, and they were trying to get to this one village, and they. They got stopped in the middle of the jungle by guys with, like, AK47s and they weren't allowed to pass until they got permission from the witch doctor. And, you know, it was real clear that that guy runs the show there. Like, he's. He's the. You know, he's. He's in charge of these people. He's the shaman and he's the doctor. I just think that's how it used to be.

[JT]

Yeah. No, I mean, well, I mean, it makes sense. I mean, it makes sense that that in the Bible, like, the. The word pharmakia is translated often as sorcery. So we think that's obviously where we get the Greek word, we get the word pharmacy from. And so drugs, drug dealers, medicine men, doctors. I mean, yeah, that's. I mean, that's. I think that's where all that comes from. I mean, you do wonder, like, you know, just biblically, like, you know, that. That when Jesus heals people, he tells them, your faith has made you whole. You know, he doesn't say, I healed you, he tells you. I mean, obviously it's. It's your faith in me, but he's saying that your faith is actually what healed you. So then these days we go to different people to get healed. We don't, you know, don't recognize, like, that God made this place. And obviously he could do anything he wants. I'm not saying, like, if you get injured, you don't go to the doctor, but I'm just saying it is interesting. Like, actually, my buddy and I were just talking about it on the phone the other day. Is that biblically, we're made from the dust. We're made from the. From the earth, right? And then I think the earth is supposedly 70 water. And, you know, obviously the 30 is earth. That's what we're made out of. I think it's really interesting to think that natural remedies make sense with that understanding that you can be healed by the things that are here, because that's. That's literally what we're made out Of.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, yeah. And so I, I got lucky and I found like a, a South Asian herbalist that lives right down the street from me and they have a little herb shop here. So I go there all the time. And it's, it's very clear once you start talking to somebody like that, that America's healthcare system and just way of approaching medicine in general is, is, is way, way backwards compared to the way it used to be and compared to the way the other places do it now. Like everything is a natural remedy for them. And, and you know, instead of like surgery, like they use other techniques like acupuncture and all this other type of stuff. They use the herbs with like this ancient stuff that seems like magic to us, like acupuncture, but they, they, it works for them. And, and I think it just goes back to like the Rockefellers. You know, you see this time and time again like throughout history, some rich guy comes in and sees how he can make a profit and yeah, that basically they, all the herbs, all the, all the, the holistic stuff, the herb healing, the old methods, the old remedies, all that went out the window sometime around the turn of the century whenever Rockefeller came in and took over the medical system that because they, they wanted to make everything into a pill. Like a petroleum based pill. Yeah, sell that. You're, you can't sell an herb. So what you see is, this is what I see. It's like, I see these massive hospitals look like, you know, like cities and, and then around them you've got this, you know, sea of concrete for the parking lot. You know, that used to be a field. And you know, what you could find in that field can heal you. It's like we've just, we've, we've, we've, we've done everything backwards now. Like, you know.

[JT]

Yeah, well, I think that's what, you know, that's the interesting part is like that like beef and things like that, they always tell you how bad it is for you. Like they try to tell you not to eat it. But what they're really talking about is they're talking about the one that's fed like GMO corn. Right? Like corn fed beef is really not good for you because they're eating crap. But if you have grass fed beef, it's really good for you. And I think that's really how most our medicine's supposed to work is like if we ate right, we wouldn't need to go to the doctor because the things that are grown here and they're ate here and they're natural. It's like those are the things that you. We eat. You know, like they say you are what you eat. So I think that's how most people would be healed. But yeah, like, you're absolutely right that I learned that a while back about how that you can't, you can't patent a natural remedy. So what do they do? They make a synthesized version of it, some kind of synthetic natural remedy and then they can patent it and then they can charge you an arm and a leg for it and again and.

[Unknown Guest]

They can put all this other crap in there that's probably killing you.

[JT]

Well, right. Yeah. Well, we don't know. We don't know what's in it. So I mean, obviously it's unique and the truth is, yeah, it's a for profit business and it's really not a business that probably should be for profit like the way it is. Because yeah, you'll get what. Well, you'll get what we've got.

[Unknown Guest]

And it's the same, same guy who took over the education system too. So he. Two birds with one stone there. That change, that alone changed culture.

[JT]

That's, you know, that hopefully people are starting to kind of get that. I think obviously I talk to people like you and I talk to so many people more like minded, but I do think that's, it's kind of growing because I think that after 2020, if 2020 has taught us anything is like that we don't trust these certain people anymore. So if the health business dates back to this guy, obviously. Yeah. Do you think like the modern school system dates back to this guy? And so now you have to understand like that you can't just. The time to be naive about those kind of things is over. Like you have no excuse now. So like how much do you really trust these people who you, who you should not trust who have lied to you? So yeah, like how deep does the rabbit hole go? And I'm. That's, that's what we continue to look.

[Unknown Guest]

Yes.

[JT]

Keep going. We keep, we keep. It's kind of endless.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, it's. It's the perpetual rabbit hole for me for sure. You know, you just keep, you come to one door and you just keep going and it opens up and you find a whole nother room of things to, to look at and analyze and. And I do think that people are starting to wake up to it. I think that's why you see so much excitement around RFK right now in this position that he's been given. I I think it's because people are starting to wake up to the fact that, you know, we're being poisoned for real. The water's bad, the food's bad, there's too much sugar, there's too much seed oils, there's. It's just all bad.

[JT]

Our food's not food.

[Unknown Guest]

It's not food. You know, it's not food. You know, I, I think that that whole thing like, I think it was probably like a, like a, a, a movement kind of that, that sprung up in recent years about like eating like your ancestors. But I, and I don't agree with everything they say, but I'm totally with that. I think you know, eat, eat meat, eat plants and, and try to find the stuff that's organic down to the beef like you said, like not the corn fed stuff, eliminate your seed oils and all that. And, and I think if we were to eat more like our ancestors in that sense, we'd be great, we'd be good off. You'd see an overall decline. But that's just not going to happen to, until people get real serious. People need to get so serious that they're willing to stop drinking sodas.

[JT]

Yeah, well, I mean I, I think that's the thing. It's like, it's, it's hard to, to quit these habits that we've been taught our whole lives. I mean it's, it's difficult. I mean of course it's funny. Like I just, I was talking to another friend. I was watching the Matrix again and I was just like watching this movie. I'm just like, I know everyone talks about it but I mean like you're like thinking like, yeah, like that beginning part when Morpheus is telling Neo that you just can't really put your finger on it. What's wrong with this place? But you know that there's something wrong. And then he's like, the truth is, yeah, we were born into bondage, that we're slaves. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like the way he's putting it. And of course you're just thinking like the, as a Christian, the way that the devil's got the wool pulled over everyone's eyes. I'm like, yeah, man. It's like you're, you really are. And people really do fight to stay plugged in even though it's like they know that there's something wrong. I also like the part when he's basically when he's saying that, you know, you have the red pill, blue pill moment and everybody knows this Moment. But I like when he says, because everyone knows what the red pill is now. It's the truth, right? Do you want the truth? Can you handle it? Take the truth. But he says, you can take the blue pill. You can go back to sleep, and then you can believe whatever you want to believe. It's like, it really is. I mean, I really do feel like that that is a. A really important, like, concept that I think that's what people do is that they. They take the blue pill. They know that there's something wrong because, like. Because everybody sitting in the chair knows there's something weird about this place. But some people say, why do I need to know that? I don't want to know that. And so that's when they take the blue pill, and then they'll just continue focus on material things that are not even real.

[Unknown Guest]

That movie hit on so much, too, and I. I rewatched it, too, at the perfect time. Like, right when Covid hit, I. I ended up getting. I guess I got covet. I think I was sick from so. And so I was laid up in bed for a couple days. So I went through. And I watched in 2020, I watched all. All the Matrix movies that were made up to that point, and it was just. It was just a perfect movie for me to watch at that time, because I was starting to. I've always had, like, one foot into the conspiracy world, but I was never all the way in. But 2020 is what pushed me over there.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And that was the perfect movie to watch right as I'm going through this paradigm shift, you know, because there's. It's. It hits on so much stuff. Even the transhumanism and everything else. Man, what a. What a film. I love it. You know, the whole. It's like. It's like a documentary, you know?

[JT]

No, I mean, you wonder. Like, sometimes I do wonder, like, when I'm watching this, I'm like, I know some people are very talented, and they're really good writers. I do also know about the brothers who made that, who are now sisters. Kind of. Kind of weird. Kind of weird. I've heard people. Some people say that. That. That story was stolen. There was actually a black woman, I think, that said they sold it. But my buddy Brian sent me a. I think he sent me, like, a documentary from some other guy who claimed he seemed like he had receipts that they had stolen that story. That story is so deep, though. I mean, it's almost like. It's so deep that they really are revealing, like, this Place is artificial. And you can. Like you said, you can think. You have one understanding what that means, what I'm telling you right now. And then some people might have a greater understanding what I'm telling you. And then some people might even have a greater understanding above that. But the way that they're revealing everything, that people are just going about their lives and just oblivious. And then there's certain people who are kind of working behind the scenes, and certain people are controlling the. The doors and the keys.

[Unknown Guest]

And you're like, whoa.

[JT]

Like, yeah, it's really. It really is deep, like. Because it's funny. Like, I like watching lots of movies because I do like, picking up the symbolism. And I'm watching that one where.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

Like, I thought I understood it on a certain level. And then I'm picking up new things that are in there, and I'm like, this really is. I know that those guys. I don't think those guys wrote that movie. It's. It's. I was.

[Unknown Guest]

I was just looking. There's a name. I've got it written down somewhere. There's some strange. He's not very well known. He's like a. A psychologist kind of a guy. He might even be a parapsychologist who wrote a book. I gotta find the information. I don't have it on me, but it. It seems like they, at least. The Wachowski sisters or whatever were at least aware of this guy when they wrote the script, because they did. They did base it off of stuff that's already out there. I see it with movies a lot too. I mean, it seems like there's a. A great deal of foreshadowing in these movies. Even, like, 2001 Space Odyssey. Like, there's a part in that movie where this guy's on a spaceship and he's interacting with the AI and the AI is, like, gone rogue and is being hard to deal with and is, like, trying to take over. You know, that movie came out in 1968.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Like, it's like there's. There's a. There's a bit of a rollout to some of this stuff. And, like, another good one is. I don't know if you ever watched the show. It's either. Is it Mr. Robot or Dr. Robot? I think it's Mr. Robot.

[JT]

No, it's good.

[Unknown Guest]

It's like, it. It's hitting on stuff that's just about to happen in real life.

[JT]

It.

[Unknown Guest]

And it. The way it portrays the. The reality of this world with the elites and, you know, the. The big Corporations, which we saw that during 2020, like the corporations are pumping out the narrative of the current administration, the current of that time. So you see behind the scenes there, there's this conglomerate of like shadow elites running everything. And that movie or that show Mr. Robot totally hits on that, totally exposes all of that. And it's crazy because the guy who, who did that was Ishmael. I don't remember his first name, but he was like, he's obviously from his social media accounts you could tell he's a die hard liberal and. But somehow he didn't. When he made that series, he wasn't like inputting his politics into it at all. He just got it right. It's like, you know, it's like goes back to the Muse. You know, it's like some people are, are getting their information from, you know, somewhere else.

[JT]

So, yeah, I've wondered, I've gone back and forth about what is the true origin of these stories. I think sometimes they're ripped off. Old stories like the, the mythologies of yesteryear. There's these repackaged versions and a modern story.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

But then you get into the ones that are like, you go back and you realize they were telling you what was coming. And so there's two options. You could take this and maybe it could be a combination of the two, is that people say that there's a connection between like the three letter agencies in Hollywood. So they could literally be telling them, this is, this is what is revelation of the method. This is Duper's delight. We're going to put this in your movies and then eventually this stuff will come true. Or. Yeah, like literally it could be channeled like that. These lots of artists, musicians, writers. I know that famously there was this guy named Alan Moore. Alan Moore was a really famous comic book writer and he wrote for D.C. and he wrote the movie V for Vendetta or the comic book it was based on. Yeah, this guy talked about being possessed by a demon. He talked about using the Crowley method. And there was quite a few other guys who were. I think it was like maybe David Thorpe. There was a few people who wrote some of these real famous comic books. Yeah. And they were all using the Crowley method of writing magic. They were writing based on magic. And that's what they say. Yeah. You watch another movie like that, you watch V for Vendetta. Like you're watching this and you're like, dang, this is really eerie when you consider 2020 and all that stuff.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. Alan Moore, he's I'VE got. I got a bunch of his comic books. And yes, I. I came to realize about him that he was very much into the occult, and he's rather open about it, too.

[JT]

Oh, he's. Yeah. He. He tells you exactly what magic is.

[Unknown Guest]

Yes.

[JT]

And so I think that's. I think that's a really interesting topic. Is that for, like, the Kabbalists and people like Crowley. Magic is not what magic is. On tv, magic is literally changing people's minds, changing your consciousness in a certain way. And so if I wrote a beautiful song, I wrote a man, I made a beautiful painting, and it made you feel a certain way, like, that's literally magic. And so they. Through the magic, they can manipulate you. That's what he was saying. He was talking about, like, spelling. Spelling spells. He was saying the grammar. The word grammar comes from, like, a very fancy name for, I guess, this magic book called the. I think the Grimoire.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, Grimoire.

[JT]

And he was talking about the art. The art. Like, he's like, talking about, like, this is what magic is. It is like art, arts and crafts. I mean. Yeah, it's like. It's really interesting to think like that. That's the way they present it in a very interesting. Like a. It's not how you think, but of course, it makes sense now, like that the mediums that we use, and of course the mediums, right. Media's television. Television programming. And so that if they can influence people through broadcasting this certain magic, that's what they're doing. It's like. Yeah, but he's. He's really candid about it. It's like, if you know what he's talking about, you're like, yeah, he's not kidding. He's not. He's not playing at all. He's being straightforward and telling exactly what's true.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, it's out there. And there are people who are very honest about this. I mean, Hilma AF Clint, she's a surrealist painter. She said that when she sat down to paint, she let the spirits take up. She said she let them use her hand to draw and to paint. So all her artwork, it's. It's kind of famous now. She kind of got big around. I think she kind of came out around that spiritualist movement. And the surrealists were really big in Paris in the 30s as well. And they were. They were famously into alchemy and stuff like that. So all this stuff is. You know, it's all. It's all connected. But Crowley, Lovecraft, Carl Young, the list just goes on, they all talked about how they were getting their stuff from. From somewhere else. And, like, I was just talking to somebody about that song Black hole sun from SoundCloud.

[JT]

Yeah, that was weird. Yeah, that's a weird. It was funny because there was that eclipse last year about this time.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[JT]

And everyone was talking about it, and some people were showing that video. That video is really, really weird.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

Like, I had no idea. I mean, I knew it was weird before, but, I mean, like, watching it, it's almost like that that eclipse was, like, showing what people actually. Maybe what they really look like. Or it was getting them possessed by demons or something.

[Unknown Guest]

Like, what's that movie they live? Kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[JT]

It's.

[Unknown Guest]

It's interesting because Chris Cornell, in interviews, because people will always ask him about that song because everybody want to know what it meant. They're like, what's this about? And he said he was. When he wrote the song, he was playing with words for words sake. And I kind of got the sense from what he was saying that he kind of let the song, like, write itself. And I thought about, like, stuff I've read about with, like, William S. Burroughs, and even I think Bowie did it as well, where they had this method of using, like. So I. I don't. So it would be like if you. If you were to walk around in circles in your house, and in one room, you have a TV on the other room, you have magazines on your bed. The other room you have a bookshelf. You're going through the first room, and whatever's being said on the TV at that time, you write that down. Then you go to the bedroom and you flip open a magazine. Whatever catches your eye, you write that down. Then you go to the bookshelf in the other room, pull out a book. Whatever catches your eye, you write that down. Then you repeat the process. And now. Now all of a sudden, you have six lines. And then. And then Burroughs talked about doing this and how a message would begin to form, and that's what he was trying to do with his.

[JT]

That is so. Yeah, that's so weird. I mean, it's. It's. To me, it seems dark to do that, because I understand what, like, really where the message is coming from. But, I mean, if you think without any kind of spiritual influence, you would just get nonsense, like. Because, I mean, obviously, if you listen to the song Black Hole sun, it does seem like it has a meaning to it. So, like, just imagine if it was random like that, and it still makes sense. It's like, that's the kind of thing that it doesn't seem humanly possible.

[Unknown Guest]

Well, those guys.

[JT]

I think it's similar like that. If famously, songs like Stairway to the Heaven, if you play it backwards, it makes sense. Says like, my sweet Satan or something like that in there. There's multiple lines that make sense. Backwards, It's a really weird song. Forwards.

[Unknown Guest]

Yes.

[JT]

Backwards. The fact that it could have a message in there. I mean, the idea that back. Back. Masking is real. I don't think humans are capable of doing that. Writing a song that's catchy and good. Forward. And then also can have a meaning backwards. Like that. To me, that seems like, yeah, you're. You're. That is forces that we. We cannot understand. But no, that's interesting.

[Unknown Guest]

I think so. Because, I mean, you would have to. You would have to record yourself talking backwards. You'd have to figure out what words sound like. Four.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

So. So you could. And then you. I don't even know how to explain it. You'd have to. You'd have to, like, rework gibberish to be able to make it sound a certain way backwards. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's. I think it's like, what you're saying, it's like forces at play. But all those guys seem to be doing some type of songwriting method like that. Like, if you look at Gavin Rossdale from Bush. If you look at some of the early lyrics from the early Bush records, that it's. It's like he went through a bunch of magazines and just. They're very random lines. It doesn't make any sense at all. But it's cool in the song because it's all artsy and stuff. Right. It's kind of. It's kind of edgy in some kind of a way.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And even. What's the guy. Stone Temple Pilots.

[JT]

Oh, Scott Weiland got Weiland.

[Unknown Guest]

Some of his lyrics have that, too, where it's like the lines aren't backing them. They're not telling a story. They're just random, strange lines, you know, it's like. I don't. I don't know. I just think that those guys got into that sort of. I think they got it from William Esparrows.

[JT]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No doubt about it. A lot of them were really influenced by people like the Beatles and bands like that, who obviously got really weird and psychedelic and who were obviously influenced by Crowley because he's on the Sergeant Pepper's album cover. So. Yeah. Like, actually, it was funny you brought up that Burroughs we Did. On our podcast recently, we were talking about. There's this clip from David Bowie talking about Black Noise. It was a really creepy clip because he's saying, like, that there's this. There's this sound that can kill people and could literally destroy a whole city. And he was like, see, he's like, that's something that Burroughs got really interested in. And he was like, yeah, you could get a. You could get a patent on it for three or four dollars at the local patent office. And it was like. It was really weird. He, like, he knew a lot about this. And the guy was like, well, how many people could it kill? And he's like, well, it depends how much money you put into it. It was like he. It's like he knew. It was like, really, really weird. Yeah, yeah, like that. He knew so much about that. And, yeah, obviously David Bowie was very esoteric and really strange. I mean, it's funny because, like, if you look at. Back at the things he did back in. I guess we're probably the late 60s and 70s, it is so bizarre compared to anything else that was out there.

[Unknown Guest]

But it was.

[JT]

But his music is good. His. His music is. He's obviously super talented.

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, for sure. He's like the original sauce of fierce. He came up with that alternate stage personality, like the Ziggy Stardust.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

And he did it. He. The word on the street, man, is that he was in the Golden Dawn.

[JT]

Oh, I believe it. I think it's really interesting. Again, like, we were talking about magic, and then he played Nikola Tesla in the movie the Prestige.

[Unknown Guest]

Right.

[JT]

And in that movie, I thought that was. I thought that that movie really told an important message that people. Most people don't realize is, like, that then the magicians in that movie were just illusionists. They were trying to sell you a lie that people wanted to believe. But the Tesla character played by David Bowie, he was actually doing actual magic, like witchcraft. So that, like, what did he say? Because it was the Michael Caine character was saying, that guy's a real wizard. Because we knew, like, the. The people who are the magicians, they weren't doing real magic. So he. So Hugh Jackman's character needed to get a machine built by Tesla in order to do actual magic. And then, of course, it was more like witchcraft. But I thought that was really interesting. Yeah. Like, so that's kind of like, in that movie, they show you that the Crowley and style of magic is just. If you want to go to a magic show, you want to be tricked. Right. So, like, people will look to see how the trick's done, but they really don't want to see how the trick's done because they want to be fooled. And I thought that's a really deep kind of message about society, is like that. Again, it's like the blue pill. Take the blue pill and believe whatever you want. So people want to be entertained. They want to go on and believe whatever they want to believe, but they would never want to see that there is a man behind the curtain. There's a trap door. They don't want to know that because they want to be tricked. And ultimately, they show. David Bowie, Nikolai Tesla's character creates this machine that's actual magic because, like, the theater operator says, oh, it's been a long time since I've seen actual magic. And he literally tells Hugh Jackman's character to dumb it down. So it's like. So not only are they performing magic to cover up the lie, but they're also using magic to cover up real witchcraft because they don't want people to know that either. I thought that was like, wow, that's like a level of another level of deep in this movie. I thought it was. It's an excellent movie if you guys ever watch it.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, that's a good movie. I remember seeing that one. I. You know, this is those years ago, but Bowie. And Bowie wanted to do an album, a concept album, based off of 1984, George Orwell. And it's a really interesting story because he was trying to buy the rights off of Orwell's widow to do that, and she wouldn't sell them to Bowie. So that's why he never ended up doing. Doing the concept album. But when you look into Orwell's widow, there's a high, high chance that she was intelligence, British intelligence. She absolutely was, in my opinion, because British intelligence bought the rights to 1984 after he died, and then at some point, the CIA bought the rights to 1984. So there's. There's this tangled web of like. But she was. They had her. They almost. It's almost like they had her marry him. He was like. She was like his third wife. They positioned her to sort of work him for all this stuff. So she wouldn't. Anyway, she wouldn't sell the. The stuff to Bowie. But, you know, all those guys like Bowie, obviously, these guys in Zeppelin using sigils for their names, you know.

[JT]

Yeah. What's his name? Jimmy Page buying Alesser Crowley's house.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. The rumor is that they wrote that Stairway to Heaven in There. I don't know if that's true or not.

[JT]

Did you ever hear the story about that house? I forgot what it was called. Yeah. Bull skin house. You ever heard the story about how was it was built on the land of where a church burned down?

[Unknown Guest]

That's interesting.

[JT]

Yeah, there was, the story goes, is that there used to be a church there, and the church caught on fire with the congregation inside of it. So the people in the church died on that property, and they buried them on the property, and then they built that house.

[Unknown Guest]

Right, right. You know, my mind goes like, what was there before the church?

[JT]

I mean. I mean, it's. It's crazy though, but it was like, even like Crowley got rid of the house because there was all these bad things happening, I think, like deaths associated in there. And. But you're like. Yeah, so I think the house had this. This tunnel that went down to the crypt. So, like, you go from inside the house under the ground to come out where the graveyard was. It's like, if that house freaked out Crowley.

[Unknown Guest]

Right. The housekeepers there, weird things would happen to the housekeepers there too. Like, there's all. Like one of the housekeepers was talking about how, like, they'd be out in the garden in the middle of the day and a shadow. A shadow would just come over them. It wasn't from a cloud or anything. It was just something totally supernatural. Yeah. If it. If it freaks Crowley out. I mean, my gosh. You know, they think that maybe he. He did a ritual out there, kind of like a Parsons kind of a thing where they say that the ritual wasn't sealed up or like, maybe like there was portal or whatever that wasn't closed. But basically it was like Crowley was at the bolstering house. He was doing a ritual, and he got a call from the leader of the. The OTO in. In London, and he had to go pick up his stuff and go to London for some reason, and he never finished the ritual. So they think that he. He brought in, opened up a doorway they never closed, essentially. A lot of people have said that maybe that the. The Loch Ness monster was, you know, kind of came into this realm because of Crowley. I just thought that that was interesting.

[JT]

Well, I mean, it's different. I mean, I've heard that Crowley was the. The Loch Ness monster because he was lived there. I mean, you could only imagine the things he did. And. And we know that. Well, I mean, I don't know this for sure, but he bought the house because of the. The wicked stuff that had happened. There. So what were they doing there? To try to summon demons again? That's what another. That's another thing that people don't realize what like, like real witchcraft is, is that it's just manipulating demons. So that's why they use sigils and all that stuff. It's to protect yourself from the entities you summon. And ultimately you can get them to do your will. But people like Crowley often mention that. Yeah. Like you. You have to be careful, otherwise they'll possess you and then they'll take over. Yeah. Obviously these stories do not end well for the people messing around with these spirits because if. I'm sure that place probably was charged with demonic energy, but obviously he couldn't even handle it. And this guy is like the people that. The go to guy for these people who do that kind of wicked stuff again, they. It's so bizarre. Well, let's just say if what we were saying was not true, it makes no sense that you have all these famous writers and musicians associated with this guy. If you, if you look into Crowley at all, he was a wicked guy. I think he. I think back in his day, they said he was the wicked. I think the Italian paper once wrote that he was the wickedest man alive. Yeah, they kicked out of it. Yeah, he kicked him out of Italy.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. Mussolini actually, I think, put out the order to kick him out. That's how serious it was.

[JT]

Oh, wow.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. You know, again, you know, Mussolini himself. Yeah. There was. I was talking to a filmmaker who was doing some work. I think he's going to make it, maybe make a documentary on this. But in the mountains in New Hampshire. Crowley spent some time in New Hampshire in the mountains. And one of the mountaintops out there that was being used for rituals. You can see, you can stand on that mountain and see like 20 miles away, another mountain peak where the Betty and Barney Hill incident happened.

[JT]

I'm not even aware what that is. What is that?

[Unknown Guest]

That was 1952, I believe it was these. It was a couple, Betty and Barney Hill. It was like they were like an. Famously an interracial couple or like before their time. And they were driving from. They were leaving Canada and they were driving down through Vermont through the White Mountains to go home from a vacation. And they kept seeing a. A craft and the craft started chasing them. And basically they had a missing.

[JT]

Like a UFO type.

[Unknown Guest]

Yes. Yeah, it's an, It's a. It's a UFO abduction incident. They had missing time. All this crazy stuff happened. And it's like one of the most Famous abduction stories in ufology. And it happened right in this area where Crowley had been doing magic. So, you know, who knows if there's a connection there? But it's this stuff just kind of follows Crowley around, you know, like. Like a shadow.

[JT]

Well, again, that. That being Lamb, I mean, does look like what people would describe as an alien. If somebody. If you sketch that out, somebody would say, oh, he true. Something from Mars. Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

I like what you said earlier about it looks like something about Spielberg. That's spot on.

[JT]

Well, I mean, you know, I think it's interesting. It's like that. Did you ever see that movie? Was it the Faculty?

[Unknown Guest]

Oh, yeah, I do. I remember that. That was awesome. I love.

[JT]

There's another. There's another great. There's another great clip in that movie when it's. I think Elijah Wood is saying that he's talking about, like, these famous people in Hollywood, and he's like. He's like, maybe. Maybe they are aliens, and that's why they always write about it. Maybe Lucas and Spielberg are aliens. And if you really think about it not saying that they are, even though actually we. On my podcast recently, we were playing all these clips of the. These commercials where they're saying celebrities are saying they're aliens. Really weird. But if we never had Spielberg movies, would we really know what those aliens were supposed to look like? Because if you watch especially like Close Encounters of the Third Kind, it might be the first movie where they ever depict aliens looking like your typical gray alien, where it's got big, bulbous head, big old eyes, it's got really long, gangly body.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

Like, if. If. If not for Spielberg, would we see aliens looking like that? Like, you know.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[JT]

Again, I mean, I know that if they're. If they're re. If there's any truth to any of the stories, that's what people describe. But I wonder if people describe those things looking like that, because that's what they're shown, that. Right.

[Unknown Guest]

You're absolutely right, man. That was either the rollout or part of the rollout. I mean, yeah, I know it goes back to 1947. And in 47, you have a couple things happening. Roswell, Kenneth Arnold, and also George Van Tassel. Out in the Mojave Desert. He starts like a. He leaves.

[JT]

Was it. So was that the Babylon working with Jack Parsons?

[Unknown Guest]

That was in 46.

[JT]

Okay.

[Unknown Guest]

But what's interesting about that is if you read through the transcript, the. He wrote it, he documented everything Parsons did, and he said an entity came to him and said Finish this part of the ritual, and in nine moons or nine months, this thing will be released on the Earth. And that was in, like, late March or April. So nine months from that point would have been the beginning of 1947. So you've got that in the mix, and that's in the Mojave Desert. And what's weird, man, is that George Van Tassel leaves his job at Lockheed to move to the Mojave Desert. He doesn't know Parsons or L. Ron Hubbard. He just happens to move out there, and he starts the most, probably one of the most successful UFO centers of all time. He starts, like, a UFO religion out there, separate from what's happening with Roswell. So it's like everything lined up perfectly for the rollout of this 1947, like the UFO era. It all starts in 47.

[JT]

Right.

[Unknown Guest]

And it's a lot of these little things that happen separately. Even the Maury island incident was 1947, where you see the first men in black coming out of that. So it's like 47 happens, and that's when they roll out this idea that we're not alone. Right. Or the notion the. The American public is faced with this notion that maybe we're not alone. There's UFOs and there's aliens. Then you start seeing Close Encounters of the fifth kind of roll out of, like, what the aliens look like, for sure. So.

[JT]

But.

[Unknown Guest]

But it seems like, you know, you've got thousands of years of dwarfs and fairy lore that was like, the thing. And then it's almost like overnight in 47, something new enters the mindset of humanity. And it's this UFO.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

Alien thing. And I know UFOs go way back before. I know that they've always been seen. But, like, Something happened in 47 where there was a rollout. And then I think you see Hollywood picking up the baton and showing us, like, this concept of the green aliens.

[JT]

Yeah, there's. Yeah, we talk about that. I know Brian specifically talks about that. That, like, what would be the modern UFO abduction story would be like, back in yesteryear would be like, fairies or. Or gnomes or whatever. Like some kind of weird creature comes in and takes kids. It's kind of like I said, it's kind of like the story of Peter Pan. Peter Pan takes kids out of their window wearing pajamas. He's got a fairy with him. Like, that's what it would have been, an abduction story back in the day. Even, like, he was like. Like kidnapping. So kids are children of the goat who was the goat pain pains the children. Yeah. So the kids. So it's kind of like when you say an alien abduction, you don't mean aliens are being abducted. It means the aliens are doing the abduction. So who's kidnapping? The children of the goat are stealing children. So that's what an abduction story would be like years ago. But today it's aliens did it.

[Unknown Guest]

Right.

[JT]

I mean, the whole point is like, that there's this phenomenon that's really can't. We can't put our finger on. And it makes sense. Like if, if this is in like the zeitgeist of the people, this is what they believe. Well, maybe their stories are going to start to line up because maybe, maybe it was the aliens did it. The whole thing is like. Yes. I think, I think mostly it is a spiritual phenomenon.

[Unknown Guest]

Sure.

[JT]

And I think that goes back, but I do think, I do also, I also do think about that lots of the crafts and things like that. I think that could be something that, that our government has.

[Unknown Guest]

Sure.

[JT]

And they, and they want to promote. They want to propagate the idea that it's aliens. Because if they do that, then people won't look any deeper because most people don't believe in aliens. So they'll just say, if you saw, like, you know, if you saw something crazy in the sky, and you say, oh gosh, I saw a ufo, I saw an alien ship. And everyone would be like, you didn't take your meds today, did you? But if you went outside and you saw, I saw this crazy new jet by the government, people would believe you. Right. And I think that's why they want people to believe in UAPs and all that kind of stuff. It's kind of like the whole thing, even with the drone phenomenon that the story that just disappeared like a fart in the wind. Everyone was talking about drones. Right. They drag these people from the intel community in front of Congress and they're saying, we don't know whose they are. Does anyone believe they don't know whose they are? I mean, like, I was just like, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Then one day they just stopped talking about it. It's like they didn't want to tell us obviously whose they were. They were ours.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

There was some kind of agency that is top secret and they didn't want to tell people. So the same way that they would rather people say, oh, it's something from Mars, then they'd rather say it's something from this military base. That's right. Near your town because they don't want us to know what they've got.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, I mean, I think that whole drone thing is either the government or to me it reeks of aerospace, the aerospace community. And, and you know, if you get deep enough in ufology, you'll start to see. There seems like there was a shift. I think it may go back to Nixon, but it seems like Nixon. I think that Nixon and the government decided they were going to take all the UFO stuff they had and privatize it. So they turned it over to Boeing and Raytheon and, and the aerospace companies because. And they sort of kind of washed their hands of it. Because I think that's possibly why it's disclosure hasn't happened yet. It's been able, they've been able to just string this out for as long as they have is it's. The government doesn't necessarily have all the information on the UFO files anymore. I think it went over to aerospace and there's a problem there because in the 40s von Braun and, and the Paperclip Nazis sort of infiltrated the aerospace world.

[JT]

Oh definitely.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah. You know, you introduce all these wacky characters in this as well and it's.

[JT]

Just a big Satanist, Nazis everything.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, but. And it does, it goes back to the entities though. For me it's like, like with your, your documentary, man. It's like it goes back to these like for instance, Jack Parsons and, and Van Tassel, although they didn't know each other, they end up in the same desert talking to an entity named Ishtar Ashtar, the Samaritan Sumerian goddess of Babylon. They both independently said they were, they got. They were contacted by a divine feminine goddess figure. Van Tassel straight up said her name was Ashtar.

[JT]

That's interesting.

[Unknown Guest]

Parsons was calling her the Goddess Babylon and that's who was to be released on the earth or to the West. In my opinion, that's who was to come to the west after the rituals all said and done for him. Because if you look into the goddess Babylon, I actually it. I found a guy who took like seven years to write. He's an occultist. He wrote a book on the goddess Babylon. And he said in her earliest forms she's Ishtar, Ashtar or Inanna because she goes by different names. So Van Tassel is saying he's being communicated to by Ashtar and he goes on to start the Ashtar Command and the Ashtar movement. It's like this UFO religion that springs up overnight in the desert. Same Desert that Jack Parsons is contacting an entity named Ashtar or the goddess Babylon. So for me, it goes. Totally goes back to the ancient angels idea.

[JT]

You know, it's. You know, it's interesting. And I just made this connection just the other day. I don't know how there. You know, I can. I can't verify this or anything, but I would say that when people wonder who mystery Babylon is or the whore of Babylon was in the Bible, I think it's actually really clear. It's Jerusalem. The reason she's a whore is because she's supposed to be faithful to God. And that's why it's like basically Israel came out of captivity and they went back into the land. But they have this mystery Kabbalahist system in the times of Jesus. So when Jesus is calling them out saying how wicked they are, it's because they were literally appearing to be this one way, following God's commandments, but in secret they were doing all the wicked things. So over and over again, the Bible does call Jerusalem a whore. Also that they did worship, like after the captivity, right. Right around the time of the captivity with Nebuchadnezzar, they were doing these drink offerings to the Queen of Heaven. So it kind of makes sense. It's like. It's kind of. There's a. There's both of it. But I think it's kind of interesting, the timing, when Jack Parsons was doing the summoning of the whore of Babylon. It's right around 1948. Huh? I mean, that's. I mean, I don't know if there's anything. I mean, that could just be a major coincidence. But it's kind of interesting that Israel became a nation again right around that same time.

[Unknown Guest]

And, well, they were doing the talks to become a nation in 47.

[JT]

Well, they were. They were definitely at that time, they were going over there, you know, so they didn't officially become a Nation until 1948, but they were definitely the whole time they were going into the land then I thought I was like, oh, that's really interesting because I never considered it like that that could have anything to do with it. Maybe it doesn't.

[Unknown Guest]

But hey, you know, it's interesting too. There's a story out there that I haven't been able to discredit yet. That in 47, on one of the nights that they were having a UN talk to establish Israel as a nation, that's when they pulled the Dead Sea Scrolls out to analyze, particularly the Book of Enoch.

[JT]

That's weird. That's Weird.

[Unknown Guest]

So you have a guy who's. He's looking at the, the Book of Enoch from the Dead Sea Scrolls just to make sure it's legit. The same night that they're talking about creating Israel as a nation. And in. If you look at the Book of Enoch in like the first couple verses, it says, this is a book for. Meant for a. Yeah.

[JT]

Future generation generation. That's really weird. That's really cryptic. Yeah, I mean, that whole thing, it's like, yeah. What, what, what does it all mean? I mean, I think some people know. Know what it means. I, I do think that. I mean, I'm not one of these people. I don't believe that, that the pre. Trip, you know, the Rapture is about to happen and I'm not one of those people, so. But I do think that based on the Balfour Declaration and the people who were pushing to make Israel nation again, I do think that there's some timing about that. Like that they did it at a certain time. Maybe they would have done it earlier, but I think it's really interesting, especially the way that kind of the modern church talks about the Rapture. And they viewed Israel becoming a nation again as biblical prophecy. And so they were saying, like, oh, well then Jesus is coming back based on this certain timeline. I think that. Let's just say that's not true. Let's just say. But the people who established Israel as a nation with like the. Sowed the seeds for that with the Scofield Bible and all that stuff. I do kind of wonder like that if that's what they wanted people to believe, why did they want people to believe that? Like, I almost feel like that there's still whether the, if the, if the Rapture is not coming, what is coming? Because I do feel like that there is a shelf life to that idea that people would accept it for a certain amount of time. Because obviously people who believe in dispensationalism, they're trying to stretch the definition of a generation out in order to make it work where the Rapture could still be soon, I guess. But what. After a certain time that's unfeasible? Because people will just have to say, look, well, I mean, it's. It. It can't be that. So I, I kind of do wonder if there is another plan for. I mean, I mean, I know that there's another plan for the people who establish it as maybe there is some kind of a. There's some kind of countdown to something which I don't know what it is.

[Unknown Guest]

I, I think that I don't know what it is either, but there does seem to be it. I like that. I like how you worded that. There does seem to be a countdown, even like in the book of Enoch when it talks about how the watchers are to be locked up for 70 generations. Semyaza was locked up by the archangel Michael. God told him, lock him up for 70 generations. And it's like, I don't know what a generation is because you can derive several numbers from the Bible for that. But if you were to use Psalms 9010, version seems to point to a generation or a lifespan being 70, 70 to 80 years. But they say 70 years for sure. And if you take 70 times 70, that's 4900 years. So. And what's crazy is the curse itself seems to be placed. Have been placed 4,900 years ago in the time of Jared. So, you know, that's.

[JT]

I don't know how much you've seen some of the content I've made though. The one thing I'm sure of is this year is not 2025. I mean, it's kind of just a. Let's just say it's a social construct anyways, because the whole ADBC chronology, like it was ever some kind of clean break where they step. They knew when basically the first day of creation was versus when they decided what date it was. I think that some of the research I've, I've seen, I think that our timeline could be up at a minimum of like 700 years where it's actually off.

[Unknown Guest]

700 years?

[JT]

Yeah, it's at the, at the minimum. I mean, and this is based on. There was a German researcher, professor, sociologist, he did something about, you know, research into stratigraphy and he established it like the first millennia A.D. there's 700 years of fluff in there. And I think it's really interesting because, I mean, so like, some people try to like date, you know, like, come up with time. You know, like a lot of people who believe in like the, the Rapture is coming, they'll say, oh, makes sense. We're about year 6000. So after year 6000, you have a thousand years, the millennial reign. But we, if you believe the Bible, you can do a pretty good job of dating from Adam to Jesus. But the truth is we really do have to take a lot of things on faith that should not be taken on faith from our timeline, post the Bible as Christian. Because I think that when you do start to look into history as we've kind of already talked about earlier in the American history. It's full of just holes or just straight out fabrications. So being able to trust what date it is.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, you got a good point.

[JT]

Is really. Is really hard to do. I mean, like I said, you, you just have to take things on faith.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

And, and when you. And obviously something like that, you should be able to have a lot of receipts for the dates. But that's why they call the Dark Ages the Dark Ages. It's not because it was a bad time. It's because they don't know what happened because there's a bunch of holes in the history. Then like technology, I think was like architecture, language and, and culture did not advance during that time.

[Unknown Guest]

Well, have you looked into the Byzantine aspect of that?

[JT]

Yeah, well, I mean, again, there was like a thousand year. There was like a thousand year Christian empire, but again, like, I don't know that it was actually a thousand years because I think that people, they, they tried to say it was this long because that's how much time they had, but I think that, I think the chronology has been wrecked and we might have to do another podcast. It would take too long to kind of get too much into this. But just put it this way, there's people like Flamenco and Gunnar Hindson have done really good research into the idea that our timeline is wrong. And I think this might not give you a lot of answers, but it gives you maybe more an explanation of why we've been lied to so much and why, why it's. Why we have been lied to and why we could be lied to is because history is a set of lies agreed upon for sure, man.

[Unknown Guest]

Maybe we can do that because I. That opens up a whole new.

[JT]

Yeah, I know. That's a big can of worms.

[Unknown Guest]

And like, we didn't even, we didn't even talk about Tartaria at all. And so I'd love to, like, talk with you about that. And then this, this other concept that you're talking about, like missing. Missing history and just everything that comes along with that. That'd be an awesome thing.

[JT]

Yeah.

[Unknown Guest]

To do because. And, and I'll, I'll wrap it up with this. I came across a map. I want to buy it, but I found an old map for sale that has Tartaria on it.

[JT]

This one actually has like this one up here.

[Unknown Guest]

Does it?

[JT]

Yes. It's out of picture, but yeah, like, this is like my, my wife got this at some kind of just, I don't know, knickknack. Store or whatever. And I was like, oh, that's awesome. Like, using my background, according to the.

[Unknown Guest]

Seller and the seller's business, it's a real. It's actually a real map.

[JT]

Oh, I believe it.

[Unknown Guest]

It's the original. So, anyway, but the problem is it's like $2,000. So, like, I thought. I thought about. I thought about doing a GoFundMe and, like, putting out the word on my podcast and seeing, like, you know, if people will help me buy this map, I'll. I'll unveil it on the show and I'll do a whole show dedicated to Tartaria and to the map itself. Because if you. Well, we'll just save this for another time. I'll save Tartaria for another time.

[JT]

But the old maps are fascinating, though. Yeah, it's like, they're super. They're super interesting. So, yeah, there's. There's. I think there's. There's a lot to glean from old maps.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, absolutely, man. And like, jt, I appreciate you. Like, I. I promise, man, I wasn't planning on keeping you this long. It's just been a great conversation. I didn't want to cut it off. So.

[JT]

Yeah, no, it flowed. Well, I think that. Yeah, I know we didn't get to Tataria, but I think we. It might have went better because we just. We just kind of let it roll. So.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah.

[JT]

Yeah, man, great talking to you.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, you too, man. You too. Tell everyone where they can find you and whatever projects you have in the works.

[JT]

Yeah, well, so you guys see my name is JT Follows JC on social media, so you can pretty much find me everywhere. I'm on Instagram, on Facebook, actually. Joe Tell. I go by Joe Telford on Facebook. I've been doing a lot more stuff on there. JT follows JC on. On X Tick Tock. And my main platform is YouTube, but if you want to listen to the podcast, I'm available on Spotify and Apple. And my podcast goes under the term JT's mixtape. So I've been. That's kind of like my. My most weekly feature I do. And other than that, just doing my live streams and we talk about. We talk about everything. Everything.

[Unknown Guest]

Yeah, I've heard your stuff. I mean, your reels and everything. And there's a story, and I'll. I'll save it for another time, but I noticed that there's a lot of people who you've reached with your reels that aren't necessarily into this stuff, but you've gotten, like, People thinking. And like I said, I'll save it for another time. But like, I saw someone in the comments of one of your reels one day who I remember from way back in the day who is not into this stuff at all. And I had the thought, man, this guy is getting some people thinking right now. So we'll end it with that. We'll end it with that, everybody.

[JT]

That's good. That's. That's. That's all I can hope for, because I think I understand. You know, you have to understand doing the things we do and just being a Christian, I kind of. I understood at one point, and this was something that really helped me. And this is. This is what I can end with, is that I'm just here planting seeds. I'm trying to get people to ask the questions that I ask. I'm not telling you you have to come to the same conclusions about me about everything. But I want, you know, we want people to. To think critically about the things we're taught. You know, there's certain things, obviously you have to take on faith. You better be sure about the things you take on faith and. And who you can trust. Obviously, I believe I can trust Jesus. Everything else, I'm asking questions about everything. I want to see the receipts because I'm not trusting liars. So if I can plant a seed in somebody and I want them to come to their own conclusions, but if I can just help people think, I think that. I think this place will get more straight if I. If I can do that for sure.

[Unknown Guest]

That's what. That's what I'm trying to do with this podcast, too. I'm just trying to get people excited about concepts, and we have our work cut out for us. Everything we've been told on most days seems like a giant lie. But I think we're. I think we're chipping away at this iceberg, man. And I appreciate the work you do. I appreciate you coming on. I want to encourage people listening. Look in the description below and go check out some of JT's stuff. And with that, we'll wrap it up. As always, break the mold, conquer the realm. And thanks for listening.

[JT]

The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is a oblong box in the corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real if you can persuade them that what they see with their eyes is what there is to see, because they'll lack in the face of an explanation that portrays the bigger picture of what's happening.

[Unknown Guest]

And they have.