The Road to Christ w/ Dr Steven Masood

Summary

Podcast Summary: Nephilim Death Squad

Episode: The Road to Christ w/ Dr. Steven Masood
Hosts: David Lee Corbo (“The Raven”) & Top Lobsta
Guest: Dr. Steven Masood
Date: June 28, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, David Lee Corbo and Top Lobsta sit down with Dr. Steven Masood, a former Sunni Muslim and current Christian scholar and missionary, to explore his journey from Islam to Christ. The discussion traverses Dr. Masood’s personal testimony, theological contrasts between Christianity and Islam, the challenges and nuances of Muslim evangelism, and deeper reflections on faith, culture, and religious ideologies. The hosts maintain their characteristic blend of humor and candor, while Dr. Masood offers both harrowing and uplifting firsthand accounts of his experiences pursuing and defending his faith under sometimes dangerous circumstances.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Masood’s Background and Testimony

• Meeting the Guest ([03:18]): Top Lobsta explains how he encountered Dr. Masood’s Saturday ministry, leading to their collaboration.
• Dr. Masood highlights his upbringing in a Muslim family, his early struggles with denominational divisions in Islam, and his deepening search for spiritual truth.
• By his teens, Dr. Masood commits to Sunni Islam, but begins questioning doctrinal inconsistencies and the certainty of salvation in Islam.
• He describes his pivotal realization (early 20s) that Islam, despite an emphasis on works, offered no assurance of paradise—only “inshallah, if Allah wills.”
  Quote ([35:39], Dr. Masood):
  “Oh people, listen. By your works you cannot enter the paradise of God, but only by God’s grace and mercy.”

2. Islam and the Clash of Worldviews

• The Quran’s view of Jesus and its stark divergence from Christian theology is discussed at length.
  • Muslims regard Jesus as “the word of God” and a prophet, but not divine nor crucified—a belief that contradicts both Christian doctrine and Old Testament prophecy ([06:03]).
• The panel critiques Islamic expectations for the end times, noting Muslim eschatology’s focus on world dominion and a Jesus who aids the Mahdi—a figure the hosts characterize as antithetical to the biblical Jesus ([06:32], [15:05]).
• Dr. Masood unpacks the Quranic principle of abrogation (naskh), which allows later revelations to invalidate earlier, peaceful ones ([13:55]): Quote ([14:49], Dr. Masood):
  “So all those friendly passages that they should not be followed now...for you is your faith and for me is my faith—no, [now it is] only Islam is acceptable.”
• Discussion on taqiya—concealing true intentions for the greater cause ([25:49]):
  Quote ([26:51], Dr. Masood):
  “You don’t show all your cards…you just say to be very, very friendly. That is the doctrine.”

3. Christianity: Grace, Mercy, and Assurance

• Dr. Masood explores how the New Testament assures believers of eternal life through faith in Christ, contrasting works-based Islam with grace-based Christianity ([39:14], [46:12]): Quote ([46:55], Dr. Masood):
  “Why do we not read [the Old Testament]?...Where does Islam and Muhammad fit in? And I realized, no, oh man, he doesn’t.”
• The hosts and guest discuss Paul’s emphasis on grace, the universality of the Gospel, and Old Testament prophecy’s fulfillment in Christ ([29:09]-[31:16]).
• Dr. Masood shares his first-hand experiences facing persecution—including attempts on his life and familial rejection—for choosing Christ ([71:21]-[75:32]). Quote ([74:29], Dr. Masood):
  “My father takes the sword to just chop my head off...just in split seconds this donkey acts like a horse, kicks a few people...and God rescued me.”

4. Muslim Evangelism & Ministry

• Dr. Masood describes his ministry, Jesus to Muslims, focused on equipping Christians and reaching Muslims with biblical truth ([57:37]).
  • He details apologetic resources, tracts, and books addressing common objections like the supposed corruption of the Bible, the nature of Christ, and the doctrine of abrogation.
• The importance of directness and clarity in evangelism, without unnecessary politeness masking the truth ([79:05]).

5. Recent Trends: Conversions, Masculinity, and Cultural Shifts

• Hosts note a groundswell of Muslims converting to Christianity, some after visions or near-death experiences with Christ ([61:57]):
  Quote ([62:57], Dr. Masood):
  "Muslims do believe that God intervenes...revealing Jesus to them. That is what is happening."
• Discussion on the appeal of Islam to young Western men amid cultural “feminization” and power vacuums ([97:51]-[101:50]), and the dangers of conflating Christian belief with nationalism or political identity. Quote ([101:50], Top Lobsta):
  "There is a certain masculinity to [Islam]...it embodies and resembles strength...But that's not Christianity's posture."

6. The West, Decline, and Warnings

• Dr. Masood compares America’s trajectory to Israel, warning against neglecting foundational faith and family ([103:42]-[110:16]): Quote ([109:25], Dr. Massoud):
  "...First your own Jerusalem. Your own Judea, your own Samaria and then the world. That’s the way Jesus did it."
• Cultural statistics: About 45% of U.S. households are fatherless (per Father's Day sermon), highlighting the need for restored fatherhood spiritually and physically ([112:38]).

7. Apocrypha, The Book of Enoch, and Supernatural Curiosities

• The value of extracanonical texts like Enoch is debated—interesting for exploration, but not foundational ([129:12]-[133:58]).
• Dr. Masood emphasizes the Bible as the ultimate criterion, though supports using other texts for contextual understanding.
• Remarks on angelic visitations across religions and the Quran’s derivative elements ([132:01]-[134:00]).

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Notable Quotes

• [14:53], Dr. Masood: “It says we love peace, but this peace should be established the way we want it...Submission—through power. Then peace will be out.”
• [37:42], Dr. Masood: “The Quran clearly says...our faith is incomplete without believing in Moses and Jesus. But here was the catch: we believe the earlier scriptures are corrupted. Didn’t God know that?”
• [46:12], Dr. Masood: “If Jesus had not been crucified, did not die and not risen victoriously...He gains victory over death, not to die again. By believing in me, you have eternal life.”
• [57:46], Dr. Masood: On his ministry’s mission—"We equip Christians on Islam and biblical approach and then we also reach Muslims for Christ."
• [80:48], Dr. Masood: “All these lovey-dovey type of things...But there were times and moments, not just once, but always that Jesus was totally [direct]...because the message is about eternal life.”
• [86:14], Dr. Masood: “When we talk about Muslims, it’s not the Muslims which are the problem, it’s the ideology behind them which is a problem.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:18 — Dr. Masood’s introduction, background, and how the hosts met him.
• 06:03 — Islamic eschatology and divergent views on Jesus.
• 13:55 — Abrogation in Islamic tradition.
• 25:49 — Concept of Taqiya (strategic concealment).
• 35:39 — Islamic traditions on paradise and grace.
• 46:12 — The crucial role of crucifixion and resurrection.
• 57:46 — Jesus to Muslims ministry: purpose, resources, methods.
• 61:57 — Muslim conversions, visions, and dreams of Jesus.
• 71:21–75:32 — Firsthand accounts of persecution and miraculous deliverance.
• 97:51–101:50 — Masculinity, the “manosphere,” Islam’s appeal, and Christianity’s posture.
• 110:16 — The decline of faith in America and the loss of spiritual and physical fatherhood.
• 129:12–134:00 — The Book of Enoch, apocryphal writings, discernment.
• 136:37 — Resources, seminars, and actionable steps for listeners.

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Memorable Moments

• Dr. Masood’s vivid escape from attempted execution by his own family after conversion—a moment of literal fog and miraculous deliverance ([74:29]).
• Honest reflection on ministry challenges: "It’s not just fun, but it’s a responsibility as well. Life could be here today and gone tomorrow..." ([123:00])
• Top Lobsta and David weaving humor (“bring a diaper, there’s no bathrooms for eight hours!” [03:14]) with unflinching spiritual probing.

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Calls to Action & Resources

• Dr. Masood’s Ministry: jesustomuslims.org – book resources, apologetic tracts, online seminars.
• Recommended reading:
  • “Into the Light”
  • “Can God’s Word Change? Naskh (Abrogation) in the Quran and the Bible”
  • “Jesus, the Bible and Islam: Abiding in Truth”
• Christians are encouraged to learn how to share their faith with Muslims, understand doctrinal distinctions, and approach evangelism with courage and clarity.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a compelling blend of intellectual dialogue, personal testimony, and urgent exhortation. Dr. Masood’s unique perspective is invaluable for Christians contending with both Islamic ideology and the spiritual drift of Western culture. The conversation is frank, sometimes sobering, but ultimately hope-filled—reminding listeners that the grace and mercy sought by billions is truly found in Christ.

“You are looking for grace and mercy? That grace and mercy has already been given through Christ.” ([95:52], Dr. Masood)

Transcript

[David Lee Corbo]

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[Top Lobster]

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[David Lee Corbo]

Down and the Heavens Crack. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven. That's Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get into today's guests, a little reminder. A great place to support the show is patreon.com/now/ephilim Death Squad. Sign up there. Gain early access to episodes before the general public ad free listening experiences and access to communities on Telegram, on Discord and on Twitter, as well as discount codes off of merchandise and toplopster.com where not only are you going to find all of our T shirts and designs that Top Lobster has made, but you're also going to get access to the tickets to Bohemian Grove. That's August 8th in Wildwood, Florida. It's a seven to eight hour ordeal. I don't even know if I've actually said that to people. It's going to be a long time.

[Top Lobster]

I told people the length of this show.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, I told them a lot of the people that are going to be there, but I've not told them that we're going to lock them in one

[Top Lobster]

room, bring a diaper, there's no bathrooms for eight hours.

[David Lee Corbo]

Guys, it's going to be a crazy day, so go and get your tickets. A general admission to Bohemian Grove on top lobster dot com. Joining us today is Dr. Massoud. This is actually somebody who is here in the studio. I mean, for those of you who are listening, you might not know that, but for those of you who are watching, you can see that. And maybe we could talk a little bit before we get into even introducing Dr. Massoud. How did you come about meeting each other? Because, Top, you're the one who. Who bumped into him. Right. And. And caught a glimpse of his testimony.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, yeah, I'll let. I'll let Dr. Massoud lead this if you'd like.

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, first of all, thank you so much for asking me to come.

[Top Lobster]

Absolutely.

[Dr. Massoud]

This is all new for me, but here I am. There is always the first experience and then becomes the final experience.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

Thank you so much. This is the last time he's coming back.

[David Lee Corbo]

That was a fancy way of saying that. Yeah, yeah.

[Top Lobster]

So you do you do your ministry on Saturday in the back here in the library. And I come to get coffee. We usually don't work on Saturdays.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes.

[Top Lobster]

So I come through with my kids and I see you guys here busy at work. And Matt told me a little bit about your testimony. And then you were kind enough to give me one of your books, I think. I don't remember. Which was it? This one?

[David Lee Corbo]

There were.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. Your story was in the back.

[Dr. Massoud]

It must have been this one. Into the light. I think there are books here at the library as well.

[Top Lobster]

Okay.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. On Saturdays, every second Saturday, teach the Gospel of John here with a little bit different perspective. Okay. Also, how to reach Muslims for Christ.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right. That's an interesting angle. Is that the perspective that you're talking about?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, that is the perspective that we continue to do that. But again, unless we ourselves are built up, how can we reach other people? With the gospel.

[Top Lobster]

Sure.

[Dr. Massoud]

But the Gospel of John is very good to begin with Muslims, because Muslims do believe Jesus is the word of God and the spirit of God. But they don't go more than that. They say he was a prophet of God. Yes, he was sent only to the Israelites. And when the time came, he was not actually crucified. He was taken up into heaven. Somebody else was crucified. And there are a group of Muslims who believe that, yes, Jesus was crucified, but he did nigh on the cross. God saved him from the cross. And later on he traveled as far as India and died at the age of 125, 130 years.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wow.

[Dr. Massoud]

These are some of the ideas. But the majority Muslims do believe that God actually took him up to himself and then one day he will come back and help a Muslim guide by the name Mahdi, which the name also means the guided one, and they both will then rule the earth. Ask Muslims to become. Ask Christians to. And Jews to become Muslims or the whole world.

[Top Lobster]

That sounds like a little bit of a remaking of the Antichrist that we have in mind.

[Dr. Massoud]

Indeed. So whatever you believe about the Muslims believe about the coming of Christ, that is according to the scripture, the way that person would be acting to be Christ is similar to what the Bible says about the Antichrist. So it's quite strange. But that's the world we are living in. Two billion Muslims.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

This is something that you used to believe.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo]

And how long did you believe that?

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, growing up as a child, as children, we were told that this is what's going to happen. And then of course, there were these differing ideas. But my biggest problem was that if Muhammad is the Prophet of Islam and he should be followed, then he should be followed to the letter. Why? Islam has so many denominations. So growing up in that type of circumstances, by age 14, 15, I decided that I should be a Sunni Muslim. Sunni Muslims are 85% of the world. 85% of the Muslim world are Sunni Muslims. So that's where the whole thing started. But before that, would you.

[Top Lobster]

Sorry to interrupt.

[Dr. Massoud]

Sorry.

[Top Lobster]

Is Sunni. Would that be comparable to like the. The Catholic denomination? Because Catholic. Okay, so more how would that lay out as far as Islamic tradition goes, Sunni versus I know there's Shiite and then there's many others as well.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, there are. Shias are about 15%. But then both of them are divided into small, small groups and others. Like, for example, in Saudi Arabia, there is the Wahabiyya. Then among other Sunni Muslim, there are Noori. And of course there are Sufi Muslims as well. And so they are all divided. But when it comes to kind of like outreach to the world, they all become united. They actually say that when they don't have a common enemy, they fight among themselves. But when they have common enemy outside, non Muslims especially, then they unite against them. And you must have seen that in the world playing around us as well, whether it was in Iraq, Syria and other places. That's what happens.

[Top Lobster]

I mean, we see it. We see it among ourselves, to be honest.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes.

[Top Lobster]

Pick a faction. We'll be divided among, you know, a thousand different parcels. And then somebody comes along with A differing opinion. We beat that guy up and then we're back to fighting.

[David Lee Corbo]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

But the word fight when we talk about here in the west is more kind of conversational and debating and all this. Right. But the Quranic language is very different when it talks about fight. It actually literally means killing.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right, right.

[Dr. Massoud]

So we have to be very careful. That's why all those references where it says fight the infidel or the mushrikeen, the associators of God and Allah, it

[David Lee Corbo]

means it quite literally.

[Dr. Massoud]

It means literally to slaughter them. The word is cut them up.

[David Lee Corbo]

Sounds like. Sounds like that.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, slaughter.

[David Lee Corbo]

I wonder, as, as a brief aside, what do you think about on a cultural level? You know, we have Muslims coming into the country and there is this presupposition that America is built on Christian values. And for the most part that is correct. Unless you're looking into sort of the conspiracies of things, you'll find evidence of other organizations that were at the the root of America's birth. However, generally speaking the populace of America is considered Christian. And to me what you're describing here sounds very much like a water and oil situation. These things won't mix. They will maybe have brief moments but ultimately once things calm down, there's going to be a separation.

[Top Lobster]

Aren't we seeing a little bit of those brief moments now with somehow and I, I, we. I've taken a step back from politics because it'll drive you crazy, but it looks like the left wing is now integrating some sort of Islamic fashions into it. Yes. And, and these we're talking about not mixing.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

At the very least the conservative right would mix a little bit better with some of the tenants of, you know, Islamic thought because they are like traditionalists but the left, like a blue haired leftist mixing with Islamism doesn't make any sense.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

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[Dr. Massoud]

is that Islam as a religion and politics together, it allows that for a greater purpose. You can align temporarily. Would that be the concept of people who may be your enemies, but you can align them so to defeat a greater enemy.

[David Lee Corbo]

So the Quran permits this?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, the Quran permits that. And the traditions of Islam permits. Muhammad did it himself as well. So the Prophet of Islam himself is the kind of great example for Muslims. For example, he migrated. Migration is a big thing for them. And then of course, through migration into another city, he became more and more powerful. And then of course spread himself further into the whole of Arabia. And then after his death, his people followed because he made it clear. So in the beginning he was very lavidavy that okay, for you is your faith and for me is my faith. If you don't want to believe in me, that's okay.

[David Lee Corbo]

Live and let live. Kind of.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, live and let live. And he would say that it doesn't matter if you are a Zoroastrian, if you are a Jew, if you are a Christian, if you believe in God and on the day of judgment, all will be okay.

[David Lee Corbo]

Interesting.

[Dr. Massoud]

However, after 13 years preaching that he started changing because now he had a good following. So he said, well, God has changed his mind before. All those passages which were given to you through me, they should not be followed anymore. So there is a theory of abrogation here. I have written a book. Can God's word change Nazkh Abrogation. In the Quran and the Bible they say that earlier passages which were revealed to him, they abrogated. So all those friendly passages that they should not be followed now is not Lakumdin kum wali ad deen. For you is your faith and for me is my faith. No, in Nadina, in the Lahil Islam, that in God's sight only Islam is acceptable. And if you do not do that, then there is a problem too.

[David Lee Corbo]

So it goes from live and let live to fight the infidel.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. So it says we love peace, but this peace should be established the way we want it.

[Top Lobster]

It's funny.

[Dr. Massoud]

Submission.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. Through power.

[Dr. Massoud]

Through power. Then peace will be out. Even when Jesus comes back and Side with the Mahdi. They both will fight the Jews and the Christians and all the infidels to spread not only the Islamic army and the news of Islam, but to establish Islam by submission. And once that people have submitted, then his work will be done. He will go, will marry, will have children, and then later on he will die and will be buried next to Muhammad's grave in Medina. And of course after that there will be a judgment day. So these are some of the ideas

[David Lee Corbo]

in, in the Bible it talks about not being equally yoked with unbelievers. And it also tells us to be in the world, but not of it. And it's fascinating because it does sound to me like that's stands in stark contrast to the Quran permitting the idea of unifying with anybody that is in opposition to your ideology in order to grow until it no longer furthers your needs. And then you cut this off.

[Top Lobster]

He mentioned that this weird tenant as well, where I said I don't understand the attraction to the liberal left wing right now. But that's exactly what they do. They do a. It's like a. All love and flowers in the beginning and very like, you know, inclusive inclusivity. But then at the end it turns into or else.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yes.

[Top Lobster]

And that or else is put this in your arm. Or so they look at whatever it

[David Lee Corbo]

is as useful idiots to. To propagate their ideology. Yes, for a time.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. The biggest problem which the west does not realize, that Islam itself says in adina, in the lahil Islam, Islam is the only religion acceptable in God's eyes. But then it also says that Islam is not only a religion but also a governmental system.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, that gets tricky.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, it does.

[Dr. Massoud]

So al Islam ad deen wad daula. Islam is not just adin, which means religion, but also a governmental system. Ad dawlah. So now you start thinking how to now cope with that? Well, for that like governmental systems and others, when they are under an occupation and other they have a different approach. Once they become independent, then they have a different approach. The same following the Prophet of Islam. Muslims do the same that if they can't fight them, join them. But join them in what way? To get their favor. In your side. On your side.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And then one day when you are strong enough, take control.

[David Lee Corbo]

That is the government equivalency of a parasite.

[Top Lobster]

Well that's, that's what governments generally do. There's like the brown shirts will be the useful idiots for the Bolsheviks or whatever. And then once they get, once they achieve what they need to achieve, they're the first ones against the wall.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

So like this is, it's honestly it's history on repeat.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

Really not that genius of an idea.

[David Lee Corbo]

Well, I mean, but it does, it's, it is the way of the world in that in that instance that you've laid out and that is not something that you'll find we're commanded to do in scripture. The Bible doesn't have this idea of co opting a thing, draining it of its resources and then taking it over.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. The New Testament Jesus specifically makes a delineation between himself and the governmental system. Even the he's like no, no, we're doing this over here. Give to Caesar what is owed to Caesar. I'm not here to do any political stuff. That's the reason that Judas betrayed him in a way.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

Because he thought he would overthrow the system. He's like I'm not here for that. This is like a much bigger picture.

[Dr. Massoud]

And even when it comes to behavioral system, he clearly said your yes should be yes and your no should be no. That's the way whether you are in a political situation and whether you are in a biblical world in the church that's the way to be. Islam has a very different approach to it that yes, you should not lie, but when it comes to a greater purpose. So what greater purpose can be sure to dominate the world for God.

[David Lee Corbo]

So in that context all means justify the ends.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo]

If you're willing to kill and you're willing to lie and all of these things in order to further the will of, of God then virtually everything is permissible.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. But then the question comes, is it God's will that whatever you are doing. So they go for a greater thing. They will say, well eventually the kingdom of God has to be established by us. They go for the replacement theology as known to us is this thing. So seeing the replacement theology, this is what Muhammad then introduced because he saw these Christians had this replacement theology that perhaps God finished with Israel and now have given the kingdom of God to be established to Christians. But then Christians went and they exalted Jesus to the level of divinity. So God took the kingdom of God from them, the responsibility and given to Muslims as an ummah, the community to establish that. And so this is what Muslims are saying, that our next goal or the biggest goal is to establish the kingdom of God on this earth. In other words, the Islamization of the whole world. That is the idea. Of course they tried their best. Through Spain they entered into Europe and only a few miles from Paris they were there. But then of course, Charles martel in the 8th century kind of pushed them back and then lot of other things they happened. So they stuck to the Middle east and continued. And then the. Eventually several hundred years later, the Ottoman Empire was established, which was in Istanbul in turkey. And by 1924, everything kind of like disseminated for them because the British Empire took over and the Ottoman Empire came down, pushed them back out again. They always had these things.

[Top Lobster]

Well, it seems like they're being a little more successful now. I'm looking at migration habits throughout Europe. I have a friend that was just in Paris and he said it's kind of Islamic there. There's not really any people from Paris there anymore, which is kind of interesting. But again, I don't know how successful they'll be with this plan because there's, there is pushback. There is hard pushback from people, but it comes, it comes from a, like a weird angle that, that is more. I guess people are applying race to it more than just, you know, I don't know. I, I agree with them. I agree with them in a sense because they, they want to retain their culture and they are in a sense being invaded in this very soft way. But then once they get there, it's not so soft anymore.

[David Lee Corbo]

That invasion is, is also facilitated by. So you'll see the difference in places that are having success in, you know, maintaining whatever it is they hope to and pushing out the Muslims. Those places haven't fully fallen to leftist ideology. So once again it's that parasitic nature of attaching to leftist ideology because they are currently this, the, the useful idiots.

[Dr. Massoud]

Right.

[David Lee Corbo]

And we had.

[Top Lobster]

Well, I do like, I do enjoy that dynamic very much. They're like, they're so leftist that they invite this open immigration and then they'll get a lot of Muslim inhabitants and, and migrants there and then the Muslim migrants will protest their drag queen story hour. Yeah, kind of hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

[David Lee Corbo]

We had, there's people that actually visit the coffee shop and they were, they were here today. They were. Oh, were they? Yeah, they were taking footage of Chaz. The fully autonomous zone in Seattle, Washington. Was that Seattle? And, and you know, so this thing starts off as an amalgamation of leftist ideology and Black Lives Matter, you name it. But over time, what became more and more prevalent within the movement was Muslims. And they were explaining how they watched this thing develop. It's co opted by Muslims.

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[David Lee Corbo]

They throw their hat into the arena with everything else. Black lives matter, LGBTQ rights, you name it, whatever it takes to propagate their ideology.

[Top Lobster]

Is that called Takia? Would that be the.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yes. Okay, what's that? What's Takia?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes is a type of ideology which means that you don't show all your cards. You keep it to yourself, the real purpose of it, but you just say to be very, very friendly. So that is the doctrine. The doctrine is that if you are in approach, you can't stand in your face or in somebody else's face directly about Islam, then what you do is you become. Yes, one of them.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wow.

[Top Lobster]

And then to show, I had a conversation with. He's a. He's a nice dude, Islamic dude. And we were talking a little bit about that. And I got a lot of the same things that you were saying, how their view on Jesus. And then I asked him about Paul and he did not like Paul. They. He says that they reject Paul. And I was like, that's really interesting. But because I was. I was just feeling around and seeing where we don't agree because it seemed like you. He was. He was giving me a lot focus

[David Lee Corbo]

on how we do agree.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. Yeah, and that's fine, but excuse my language. It's a little, I know, you know, people are people are people. So I'd like to sift through. Well, what do you really think? Yeah, and we got to that. I was like, oh, that's interesting. You don't like Paul's teaching, because Paul's teaching is a little bit more in your face and it's just, it's, it's slightly different. It's slightly different there and it pulls away from what, I guess what he would like to adhere to. It was an interesting moment.

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, Paul's teaching is the expansion of what the kingdom of God is all about. But as John says that the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Christ. So Paul plays more on the word grace again and again. So much so that while the Catholic Church forgot about it, Martin Luther comes along and the Lutheran Church establishes and they talk about grace. Although our friend Luther went in little bit another direction, thinking that God had finished with the Jewish people and not from Romans, he got the situation of grace understanding. Yet he forgot to see how Paul was talking in chapter 9, 10, 11 about that. How God has not finished with Israel. The time has been given to the Gentiles and when their time is over, God is going to pay attention back to them as well. Anyway, those are some of the things which are there. But when you look at it the way God select people, in his case, he was selected so that he will be an outreach type of person to the Gentile people. However, it was not Paul's own idea. It was Jesus himself's idea. Even from the time of Abraham, as Abraham was promised, that God will do these things and other nations will be blessed. In John chapter 10, is that Genesis

[Top Lobster]

12 that you're, you're referencing?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. Okay, yes, 12 and 15. But then in John chapter 10 now Jesus comes on the scene and he said before Abraham was, and I am. Abraham saw my day, I was glad. Two chapters later on, in John Chant 10, Jesus says, I'm the good shepherd. And then he talks about the relationship between the shepherd and the sheep. But then at same time he says, and I have other sheep too whom I have to bring, which are of not this fold. In other words, they are non Israelite. So nothing to do with Paul. Jesus had already thought about it that he would be bringing all these people. How is he going to do this? Well, in the same Gospel of John since we have been talking about that, in John chapter 20, Jesus says, as the Father has sent me, he's addressing his apostles and disciples, telling them I send you now. So of course we know as in Gospel according to Matthew, the Great commission. And that great commission was to go into all the world. The all the world was not just the Israelites, there were other people. And this is why we see in Peter's ministry that he reaches Cornelius. Cornelius, like in the book of Acts mentioned he was a Gentile, but he was a God fearing person. And even Peter was surprised that God had chosen him to that he should hear the news. And it is because of that that they realize that yes, this is what Jesus has said, that they will be the witnesses first in Judea, Samaria, in Jerusalem and all these places. And then to the uttermost part of the world. And then they realize that oh, this is what God is doing. And this is why Paul then comes along and he says well, for the Jews I became a Jew, and for the Gentile I became a Gentile. And of course the first church was established outside Jerusalem was in Antioch. And that was the area when people were called first Christians. Before that they were called the people of the way. So all these things when we see that this Christ was not just for the Israelite, but also for the whole world. So this is what was going to happen. This is why in letter to the Hebrews it clearly says that although God spoke to our forefathers through many ways in these last days God has spoken to us through his Son. Period. See, this was my dilemma as a Muslim I wanted to reach to become a good preacher and teacher of Islam. So to reach other people. So like you send friends to a seminary, they Muslims also have a seminary. So as a working student I was there. But one thing was clear. Right from my childhood this had been my biggest problem. And sometime I would go into trouble for that. And the trouble was when I was asked something, I would say why, when, where, how, what?

[Top Lobster]

Me too.

[David Lee Corbo]

Those questions will get you in trouble.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, can't ask those questions. Yes, there are often things were that they were not answerable. But still I want to understand. So how can I become a good salesperson for Islam? A missionary, A mobile they will call it to do Dawah. Dawah means invitation. It's like equal to evangelism.

[David Lee Corbo]

Exactly.

[Dr. Massoud]

So how can I do that? First I have to understand.

[Top Lobster]

Sure.

[Dr. Massoud]

And it was there that from age 16 to 20 I realized that well, Islam is a work related religion from morning till evening. But does it say that God will give me that eternal life? We look for the life in the

[Top Lobster]

paradise of God, you're asking if you're guaranteed that?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, that's what I was asking. Well, it was always the word was, the Arabic word was inshallah, if Allah wills. Okay, I gave in. I said that will be the case. In my fourth year I come across the traditions of Islam. The Islamic holy book is the size of the New Testament. I wish I had brought a copy here. But you can look online and you can see that. But then Muslims to interpret those passages, Muhammad has what Muhammad said, what Muhammad did, and lot of other things, what he has done or has been seen done. They are collected into the traditions of Islam. You know, like our Jewish friends have the Torah and then they have Tal Buddha books.

[David Lee Corbo]

Sure.

[Dr. Massoud]

In the same way Muslims have these traditions, what Muhammad said, what Muhammad did. So without that, Islam is not very much comprehensible. For example, the Quran says in other words or Aqeem al Salat that establish your prayer. Now Muslims have these five obligatory prayer where they come from. While the Quran says only establish your prayer in the morning, in the afternoon, in the evening. Like the Jewish people, Muhammad wanted to follow that in the beginning. But later on he changed his mind. He wanted to make it little more extensive for his Muslim people. So they followed fai. What do you recite in those prayers? Isal in the traditions of Islam. So you see that is all there. So in my fourth year when I was studying all this, I realized there is a traditions of Islam not just one place, but several places. Muhammad said, oh, people listen by your works you cannot enter into the paradise of God, but only by God's grace and mercy.

[David Lee Corbo]

Interesting.

[Dr. Massoud]

Wait a minute, what happened here? So people asked him the next thing it shows in that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, both places it shows that Muhammad was asked, what about you, O Prophet of God? He said, not even me can enter the paradise of God unless God covers me with his grace and mercy. And these two Arabic words just stuck in my mind. Fadal and Rahmah, Grace and mercy. So how does one get that grace and mercy? But then again they said, well, we have to continue. So I continued. But then something happened. There was war between India and Pakistan in 1971. At the question of East Pakistan, which became Bangladesh later, like anybody else, I was afraid of death. Not very much afraid of it, but what would be my result? Be sure, would I finish in hell or would I finish in the paradise of God? So I've been praying and asking and recitation of the Quran I was doing. And in my mind, because I had memorized the whole of the Quran. I started reciting a portion of the Quran which is chapter three of the Quran, verse 84. And that is the exposition of faith. The exposition of faith is that I as a Muslim believe whatever God revealed to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and several other. And then it goes on to the tribes, to the prophets and, and then especially says that I believe whatever was revealed to Moses and Jesus. And as a Muslim, I do not make any distinction among them. Can you imagine the Arabic words. That whatever was given to Jesus and Moses as a Muslim, do not make any distinction among them.

[Top Lobster]

Why would they ask you to do that?

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, the Quran clearly says that our faith is incomplete without believing in Moses and Jesus. But here was the catch. We Muslims grew up from childhood, oh yes, we believe in the earlier scripture, that is the Torah and the Gospel or the angel. But they are corrupted. That's why the Quran was sent. That was their idea. Didn't God know that very night I started asking questions at age 20, 21 now thinking, wait a minute, didn't God know that they've been corrupted? So why would God say to believe in something which is corrupted?

[Top Lobster]

That's a contradiction. And God's not a contradiction.

[Dr. Massoud]

And God is not a contradiction. Well, when the raid was over, the siren was given that it's all cleared out. So I started reading the Quran. And the Quran clearly says that there is guidance and light in the Torah and in the Injeel. And let the people of the gospel, in other words, that is Christians, judge by what is revealed in it. Now this was in the 6th and 7th century. I started thinking and I said, okay, I should read this. And so of course, although at age 13 I had received the gospel of John, at age 15, I been given a Gideon New Testament.

[Top Lobster]

Now here, were those things legal? Like were you in trouble having these things?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, okay, I have been. But that's another story. Otherwise we'll be here for, okay, quite a few hours. But anyway, but I didn't believe that. Yes, the Bible was corrupted at that time, but now the Quran and the traditions of Islam were my path. And I said, but the Quran does not say that they've been corrupted. If they have been corrupted and these people have been really corrupting. Okay, meaning is another thing. But does giving an impartation, does it mean we are corrupting? Yes, in a way you are corrupting, but that does not mean you literally corrupted the scripture. The scripture cannot be relied upon. That convinced me to go and get the Bible. And when I started reading It I realized, wait a minute. The law was given already through Moses. So when we talk about Sharia or Islamic law, what good is it? It was already given. We repackaged it and gave it to the world. That's very strange. We know that the law condemns us. It waits for you like a police officer. You made a wrong turn. You got in big trouble. And that's what the law of God is all about. We need his grace. And that grace has already been revealed through Christ. Someone had to fulfill. Because if, as a Muslim, I believed in Jesus, then what was his mission?

[David Lee Corbo]

Right?

[Dr. Massoud]

Everything is then incomplete. Well, they say, oh, his mission will be complete when he comes back. Half truth. Granger knows. When you're a procurement manager for an office park, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to

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[Dr. Massoud]

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[Dr. Massoud]

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[Top Lobster]

Este cuatro de julio and los ahoras inco porciento en electro domestico Selectos a de mas ahora ocenta dola parria gas

[Dr. Massoud]

selecta Char Broil Performance series Ahora dosientos

[Top Lobster]

noventa y nueve dola.

[David Lee Corbo]

So where. Where in the Quran does it talk about the sort of the adjustments to Jesus's story, this idea that he was saved from the cross? That that's in the Quran?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, it's only one passage in the Quran. Can you imagine towards every gospel you pick up, there are two, three chapters at least. What was happening in the last days of Jesus on this earth? It's all there in the Quran. There is only one passage in chapter four of the Quran. It appears and it will say they did not kill him nor crucified him. So chapter 4, verse 157 and 158 mentions. But here there is a. You have to check, you know, like as believer in Christ. We know that the study. When you are studying the Bible, you look at the context and you check these things for yourself. And when you check the context, then according to the context, when we check the Quran, we find that what the Quran says, that those Jews who are saying we killed the Messiah, they did not. They were not the one who crucified. Well, practically it were the Romans who did it. Yes, they were involved in it, but God's plan was much better. Even Jesus himself said to Pilate, had it not been given to you from above, you will have nothing over me.

[David Lee Corbo]

Exactly.

[Dr. Massoud]

So Jesus himself took the initiative. The. Yes. To fulfill God's plan. And that couldn't be understood. That's why Muslims do not understand this situation, because they know about Moses and they think they know about Aaron, but they don't know about the tabernacle, about the sacrifices, about what was in the book of Leviticus. This is why the letter to the Hebrews in the New Testament refers to all that. How Jesus is the fulfillment of not only those sacrifices, but being the high priest and also himself offering for you and me for once for all. And that is missing in Islam. They don't understand that.

[David Lee Corbo]

So what? Oh, go ahead.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, no, I'm just. The, the sermon that Pastor Rick preached on this week was actually really cool.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

The, the. I am a worm.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, yeah. So parts of Isaiah and also like from Jesus's own speech where he refers to himself as a worm, but in

[Dr. Massoud]

the Latin, Job refers to that too as well.

[Top Lobster]

Right? Yeah, but that's right.

[Dr. Massoud]

Job.

[Top Lobster]

And the specific type of worm that, that in the Greek that he's talking, talking about himself as is a crimson worm. And that worm climbs up a tree, it dies for its children, it adheres

[David Lee Corbo]

to the, to the tree and it

[Top Lobster]

looks like a bloody mess on the tree. It's really fascinating when, when you start to look into it. So it's like it's prophesied exactly what he's supposed to do, what he's going to do. And they, they don't, they miss it or they don't. Attention.

[David Lee Corbo]

That was actually going to be my question because so much of the Old Testament prophesies the coming of Christ and you know, dying on the cross and overcoming. All of these things are prophesied a

[Top Lobster]

lot of types of Christ over and

[David Lee Corbo]

over again throughout the Old Testament. If you remove that element and you say they did not crucify him, you've removed an element that makes. Now the prophecy makes no sense and the story makes no sense. He never came to do what was prophesied that he was going to do. And I think, you know, some, some theologians have it upwards to like 300 plus different prophecies of Jesus Christ coming. So if you remove that, well, now

[Top Lobster]

the Bible's a contradiction.

[David Lee Corbo]

The Bible's a contradiction and it almost, it almost has no value because everything points to this event.

[Dr. Massoud]

And this event Satan wants. Yeah, and that's what Islam is all about. Because indirectly you believe in Moses, yet you do not believe what Moses said you believe in. All the prophets among the Israelites were born and what those prophets said you do not want to believe. In other words, indirectly you are making them liars.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

Because if Jesus had not been crucified, did not die and not risen victoriously, this is the important thing. You know, we all want to be on the winning team and even supportive of it. But that's what Jesus shows when Muslims say, oh, why would God allow that an innocent prophet be killed? Look at the victorious resurrection. Oh yeah, he gained victory over death, not to die again. So what he did for us, now it is quite clear that I did it for you. Now by believing in me, you will have eternal life.

[David Lee Corbo]

It's the biggest win.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah. See, these were the things which I was saying that okay, if we believe in the Torah and in the books of the prophets and all that, why we do not read it? And when I started reading it, I said to myself, so where does Islam and Muhammad fit in? And I realized, no, oh man, he doesn't. And I was quite shocked. And then further studying these things, I realized that I couldn't be a Muslim. In a way, I am still a Muslim. The word Muslim means a person who has surrendered himself to God.

[Top Lobster]

Islam means surrender, right?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. Ok. And a Muslim person is called the Muslim. He means that he has surrendered himself to God. So my surrender to God through Christ in that way, I'm a Muslim too. But I believe that I'm known as a Christian by his name.

[Top Lobster]

Would you.

[Dr. Massoud]

Or by his title.

[Top Lobster]

Would you say then that so. Because when I look at Muslims and I see, I see those that are practicing in earnest faith, it does look like they are genuinely surrendering. And like you said, they want to be on the right side. It seems like people that want to be on the right side, this is what they've heard, this is what they think is right. Are you suggesting that they are surrendering to something that is not God? That is not God, like completely knocked.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. Just to give you one example, when we see the continuity of the Torah, the books of the prophets and the Gospel, just think about Angel Gabriel. Just give you one example. Angel Gabriel comes to Daniel and then another place he comes to, we see clearly how he comes to Mary. And this story is also mentioned in the Quran about Mary. Now Angel Gabriel comes to Mary. The gospel according to Luke says clearly that Angel Gabriel was quite clear. He Says because of the essence this child has, he will be called who? The Son of God. Luke chapter 1, verse 32, Luke chapter 1, verse 35, both says now, 600 years later, if it is the same angel Gabriel comes to Muhammad because Muhammad said it was angel Gabriel telling him this. Angel Gabriel tell him that those people who believe Jesus is the son of God, they are blasphemers.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wow.

[Dr. Massoud]

Did God forget, right? Did angel forget what happened? Well, you know and I know. And that is the scripture clearly says Satan masquerades as an angel of light.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

It allows you to test the spirits as well. Was that, is that mentioned in the

[David Lee Corbo]

Quran specifically to say?

[Dr. Massoud]

No, not the Quran.

[David Lee Corbo]

Who is Jesus? Do you confess that Jesus is the son of the living God is one of the ways that you're meant to test the spirits?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. Islam does not. First, John clearly says that a person who does not believe Jesus is the son of God is the spirit of. Has the spirit of Antichrist in him. So here is a situation I was facing and I said, so what should I do? And it was in that direction I realized that here I am, I need Jesus. And that's where the whole thing changed. And one day I was just standing like any Muslims, all these Muslims, the very first chapter of the Quran and 112th chapter of the Quran, they recite in their prayers every Muslim. So the first chapter which they recite, there is a verse which says, oh God, show me the way. And here I'm standing.

[Top Lobster]

Be careful, he'll show you.

[Dr. Massoud]

Here I'm standing on the mat and in the back of my mind I hear Jesus, I am the way. Of course you know which I'm quoting you. He said, I'm the way, the life and the truth. No one can come to the Father, but only through me. Do you imagine that here Jesus calling him the son of God, the son of man, and then also calling God as his father and our father. The Quran says. The Quran does not say that. The Quran says our relationship with God is Him only our master, and we only his servants. Again, half truth. And that's what Satan does. Always presenting half truth but not the full truth. Because Satan does not want to see human beings becoming the children of God. Yeah, because God paved the way. That, that's the whole problem, right?

[David Lee Corbo]

That's the whole thing that's got him upset.

[Top Lobster]

It reminds me of the. We were, we were going through the, the story of Gideon and it's one where it's like, I don't know, I guess you can read it and say, did he have faith or. But, but he's. He's testing God. He's, he's. So God is in a sense asking him for a relationship with him. He's like, yeah, go ahead, ask. And then he goes, well then make that, you know, make the fleece wet and make it not wet the next day. Make the grass wet. And God's like, yeah, let's do. Let's play that game. Like he'll wrestle with you. So it's not just a relationship where

[Dr. Massoud]

he's referring to Gideon, right?

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying the relationship with God is not just servant master.

[Dr. Massoud]

He's.

[Top Lobster]

Although he is, you know, show some respect. But he's. He kind of in a way calls you out and he's like, all right, let's. Let's wrestle. And that's not what a king does. Somebody that rules over you only there's, there's a relationship there that.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

Needs to be discovered.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. As you mentioned about this story and the Gideon story, you already know that how his God wanted his army to be cut down so he will only rely on God and came to about 300 people and lapping water and all that other.

[Top Lobster]

Do you have any insight on that? Why it's.

[Dr. Massoud]

God wants to show you that he doesn't care that you have to be etiquette fully and all these other things. But that was just a sign for him. But anyway, if it is the same God giving the Quran to Muhammad, did God forget that it was Gideon, that this thing happened in the time of Gideon, but the Quran refers to that it happened in the time of Saul.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, interesting. So there's an incontinuity there, huh?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, there are things which been kind of taken out of context and say, well, we human being forget.

[Top Lobster]

Sure we do.

[Dr. Massoud]

And did God forget or Angel Gabriel forget to give that information to Muhammad? Clearly there are many other problems with the Quran as well, but we will not go into the detail. But above all the. The biggest thing is that in the Quran itself, Muhammad has been mentioned. God tells him to tell people. Inni basharon mislokum. I'm a mortal man like you. I don't know. And it goes on. I do not know what will happen to me or to you. I only say these things which inspire in me.

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[Top Lobster]

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[Dr. Massoud]

Now question comes and my question is because we are living now in the 21st century, which GPS would you follow? Here is Jesus. He says, I know where I come from, I know where I'm going. Believe in me and you will have eternal life. Is GPS Muhammad GPS you would follow? Or is the GPS who already know where he's coming from, he can take you.

[David Lee Corbo]

He is your guide or the gps. It says I don't know.

[Dr. Massoud]

And so here I am saying that my Muslim friend, 600 years before Muhammad, God heard your prayer in the past and you perform your prayer and ask God, show me the way. And Jesus already answered that prayer. I am the way. Wouldn't you follow him? Well, my Muslim friend, it's up to you. I submitted myself and of course three years later at age 23 I became a follower of Christ and I'm thankful for that. Yeah, a lot of other people then disciple me further to help me to grow in Christ.

[Top Lobster]

X can you? You know we started this conversation and we just started rolling.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh we should probably talk about where people can find these books and his website and everything.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, you have a ministry Jesus to Muslims and that's a little preface of I guess how you you got here. But could you tell us a little bit about the website and what and what you're doing and all that.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, well the, the website is there, it's self explanatory. We equip Christians on Islam and biblical approach and then we also reach Muslims for Christ. We have leaflets, let me show you these that we have produced to give to.

[Commercial Announcer]

To.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, like little tracks?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, little tracks.

[Top Lobster]

Right.

[Dr. Massoud]

See here like one gospel. Muslim always say, what gospel did Jesus preach? There was only one gospel. You people got four gospels. So this answers that question. Muslims believe that Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son. And in one of the chapter Abraham was told Wa fadda nahu bida bin Azeem. And we ransomed Abraham with a great sacrifice. Jesus said in the gospel it is written before Abraham was I am Abraham saw my day and was glad. And this refers to that, that in Islamic dilemma, a biblical answer available to it. Islam does not talk about God as loving as we do. The Quran does mention that God is loving, but his love is conditional. It is I who take the initiative to love him by obeying Him. Then in turn, perhaps he would love me. Did you hear me? Perhaps he would love me. I will never know. Only on the day of judgment. But this leaflet in the light of the scripture clearly says that before we loved him, he has loved us. And that helps our Muslim friend to know. Many Muslims say that how can God have a son when he has no wife, no consort? Can you imagine? They believe so Mary could give birth without a husband intervention.

[Top Lobster]

So Muslims do believe that they believe in the supernatural.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, they do believe in supernatural. So this one helps them that we do not say. The Bible nowhere says that God had a wife and then Jesus was born. No, it's a similar story which is in Surah Maryam in the Quran chapter 19. But also we believe in the Bible and the Bible does not say that. It's a very different thing altogether that since God is eternal, his word must be eternal. And Muslims believe that Jesus is the word of God. So if he's the word of God, then he is more than a prophet, right?

[Top Lobster]

Right.

[Dr. Massoud]

If God's words are eternal, they say the Quran is the word of God. Thus eternal. So you got now two eternals here. One is the living eternal. And who is Jesus? Here is. Sometimes Muslim will say, oh, the Quran has abrogated the Bible abrogated.

[Top Lobster]

I'm kind of dumb. What's that mean?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, it means that superseded. In other words, they cancelled all the revelation before. If the Quran has cancelled earlier revelation, why it says there is guidance and light in them. So this answers that question. Then of course one of the things which my dilemma was that the Bible is changed. Really? Again same question. So when the Quran says that there are abrogated verses, it's only referring to its own passages because Muhammad could not come up with a better idea. O Prophet of Islam, first you said this, now this. And he said, well earlier revelation, it is God who have cancelled them. So it's in that way. That's why I had to write this book. Can God's word change Naq or abrogation in the Quran and the Bible. You can find it on Amazon or go to jesustomuslim.org and you can get it there.

[David Lee Corbo]

Is it true that we're currently in the middle of a great like a vast amount of Muslims that are converting to Christianity? This. I'm not familiar with the phenomenon but I hear whispers of it in various, you know, corners of the Internet. I came across a video the other day and it was of a man who was looking into the phenomenon of, of near death experiences and he wanted to find videos, testimony of people meeting Muhammad when they had these experiences. Instead what he came upon was a large body of content. Various former Muslims having a near death experience and instead meeting Jesus Christ and thereby converting to Christianity. And this isn't something that's happening as a one off or at least that's not been my understanding. It seems to be that there is a large amount of Muslims that are converting to Christianity. Has this been your experience? Have you seen this?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, we have seen this again and again because Muslims do believe that God at times intervenes and sends his angels or people see visions and dreams, especially dreams. And because even we as followers of Christ believe that like Cornelius was a God fearing person and yet God wanted to tell him what he should be doing. So an angel comes and tell him. So that's just one example. So in the Muslims, among Muslims there are many Muslims who are totally innocent. They have no idea what they are doing. And so they are asking and pleading with God, of course the real God will intervene in that. Looking at their hearts and their minds, revealing Jesus to them. And so this is what is happening. The phenomena. I mean I still remember as a child because my time was that in schools caning was not forbidden. And of course you're a bad kid. I was one of those kids who would ask some silly question and because as growing up as Muslim you could not question God, his existence, the prophet of the Prophet Muhammad and of course the religion of Islam. But there were times that I will finish up in trouble because asking the wrong question. According to them. And I said, no, I'm not criticizing. I want to know for myself. So of course, I will finish up in trouble and then beaten up. And then, of course, to have some money in my pocket, I will do other children's homework, school homework, so they will give me their dinner money. And then I will finish up in trouble because I would tell them to sit on the other side. So the teacher will not recognize the same writing. But anyway, so one day I was quite upset about certain things just as a kid. And I still remember that prayer. I mean, that dream. And it's right in the beginning of this book, into the Light. I mentioned that dream that I lost my way. I was kind of going home or going towards school. Something like that happened. And so there was a fork on the road and I took. Because Muslims believe it is always right path is the right hand. So it was. So I took that road and finished up at a gate. You know, like in the west, you have these farms, and then they have this long gate. And I saw that on the other side of the gate there were children of my age. And they were so jolly happy and playing and all this thing. And I opened and they kind of signed me that, come play with us. And I went and started playing with them, and I was so happy about it. And I asked them, which school did they go to? And all this and this much. I remember that an elderly person, but in very good health, came with this long beard, you know, like that kind of. That was my imagination that he called the children that. Okay, now it's time to study. And I said to him, sir, I would like to go to this school. I don't want to go to my school. And he said, no, you have to go to your school. I said, no, but my teachers beat me up there. And he said, you should go, but a time is coming when I would let you enter into my school.

[Top Lobster]

Wow, that's interesting.

[Dr. Massoud]

And I will tell your teacher, Muhammad Ismail, not to beat you again. So can you imagine the next day there is the time for to kind of have a recession.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And I'm standing there while my teacher, Muhammad Ismail, is working on the table on his desk to do certain things. And I'm just standing there, and he says, you know, in English, what's up? Why? What's the matter? And I said, sir, I saw that dream last night. And he turned around and he says, you saw a dream, too.

[David Lee Corbo]

Whoa.

[Dr. Massoud]

Okay, okay, Go, go. You know, from that day onward, he never beat me. Did he ever tell you he never told me, but. Wow. But that was a. That kind of.

[Top Lobster]

It's calling back to what you were just talking about there.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

Which is just the people that are. The Muslim people that are having the either near death experience or dreams, because I think that they're just about the same thing.

[Dr. Massoud]

Because God looks at people's heart. God looked at my heart, that here I wanted to follow Muhammad to the letter. And then I was asking, but what is it? Why the prophet of Islam would say, ladri, I don't know. The only thing I know is that only by God's grace and mercy you can enter. So where does one get that grace and mercy? So I kind of calmed down. Okay. We have to continue and do those things, but God looks at our hearts and he says, okay, of course to you and to me. He has given that great commission to go into all the world, but he has to finish his work too. You know that such a small percentage of work is directed towards Muslims when it comes to the missionary work.

[Top Lobster]

Okay, Yeah. I mean, but you can imagine why.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. And you know, and I know, but God is still at work. He wants to bring those people. Right? No. So they will have no excuse left on the day of judgment.

[Top Lobster]

You have an interesting mix of, like Cornelius is the person that goes and gets Saul.

[Dr. Massoud]

Right? I'm sorry. Get Paul, get Peter. Yeah, he. He sends his.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, I'm sorry, who's the, who's the name of the guy, that man? God. God calls him and he says, go get Saul. He's in.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh, he's over here.

[Top Lobster]

He's blind. Go help him. And, and he, he has a very

[David Lee Corbo]

short moment in the Bible. But his. Yes, he's got a big job place.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, yeah, you're.

[Top Lobster]

You're a mix of that because he, he says to God, he's like, are you sure this is the, you know, Paul is the guy that's killing Christians. And you want me to go, yes,

[Dr. Massoud]

Hanania was his name.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, yes, yes.

[Dr. Massoud]

Because Saul is now in Damascus, right, Sitting and not knowing what to do. He's blind. And of course, God tells Hanania to go and tell him that what I have done for him, that I have appointed him. And Hanania say, well, you sure? Are you sure?

[Top Lobster]

You're an interesting mix of Hanania because, well, well, Saul, in a way, because you're. It seems like you're hearing the voice of God, but you're still in Islam and still doing this thing which you think is right for a long time. And then also when you get called out of it. This is clear danger.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

When you get called out to not do this anymore.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah. How did your.

[Top Lobster]

You still live there?

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, I was asking a lot of questions now. I was studying the Bible, so they kicked me out.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, okay.

[Dr. Massoud]

So I could never finish that. But of course, two years later, I became a follower of Christ on the 29th of April 1973. So I started studying with the eldership. And another three years later, in 1976, April 1976, the elders put their hands on me and said, okay, we want to anoint you that you are now a person. You call it missionary or a mobile to your people. And that's what I have been doing this year. There were 50 years.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wow. But you're still at the time, I mean, you're still living among Muslims.

[Dr. Massoud]

You have relations until the 1980. A lot of things happen in my case.

[David Lee Corbo]

So yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

Several times. Even my own father wanted to get rid of me.

[Top Lobster]

Sure.

[Dr. Massoud]

To slaughter me.

[Top Lobster]

How do you say it? The term cut up.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, yeah, There you go. So because you've become the infidel and to becoming an apostate, a Muslim should be then asked to recant. And if that person does not recant, then. But that was his loving and kindness. Because that's what he knew.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's what he knew.

[Dr. Massoud]

That's what he knew. He did not want me to live on as an apostate.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right. He wanted to be in the grace of God.

[Dr. Massoud]

That God will. So that God will not punish me forever and ever for my apostasy. Yeah, that's what he knew. Although he gave me the opportunity and asked me why did I become a follower of Christ? And I share the same thing that I was looking for God's grace and mercy. And that's available through Christ. And of course they did not believe that. They performed my funeral prayer. They put me on a donkey first. They thought that parade me in the streets of the village.

[Top Lobster]

On a donkey. Huh?

[Dr. Massoud]

On a donkey. Because that's what they do. They will blacken a face of a criminal, a murderer or a person, a thief or a robber. And then they will parade them before they give the person to the police or deal with them. In the Northern frontier region of Pakistan, where people tribal systems are allowed anyway. So while at the end the donkey thing.

[Top Lobster]

The donkey thing is interesting because Jesus comes in on a donkey.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. And that's what my father said. You are following that Jesus who never sat on a. Nor a camel nor a horse. You are Jesus sat on a donkey. Can you imagine at that Time that Jesus became my Jesus, which is an Islamic Jesus became my Jesus who sat on a donkey and here I was. And so he raises his sword because carrying guns in that part of the world is normal thing, but having a sword means something is happening. These people are jeering and saying Allah. In other words, slaughter him, kill him.

[Top Lobster]

And these are people you know as

[Dr. Massoud]

well I knew, yes, these were the people with whom I grew up in the eldest and it's the whole village. Of course, some of them I did not know because I had left quite long before, sure. But many of them, many of them knew me. And so they are jeering. My father takes the sword to just chop my head off. That in just split seconds this donkey acts like a horse, kicks a few people and the crowd parts and it takes off, it doesn't go anywhere, straight into the field and then quickly turns a 90 degree turn to the left into this dry ravine towards the river and runs.

[David Lee Corbo]

You're still.

[Dr. Massoud]

And I'm still on the donkey holding onto and I hear these voices in the back. Where is he gone, Catch him. And all this other things that are happening. So I kind of like thinking for my life that here now I'm in other trouble. I looked behind and there was a fog rising behind me. And they were on the other side of that fog. And of course for about half a mile this donkey went on running. And then when the water was coming from the, from the river into the ravine, it came out and plopped down and God rescued me. So here is a situation unthinkable, yet my time had not yet come. A few years later at the university campus, I was kidnapped by four people. They drugged me and buried me alive.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wow.

[Dr. Massoud]

Muslims have ready made graves like the Jewish people. They will bury their dead before that. Can you imagine that? The month of monsoon from the Indian Ocean in the night, I didn't know about it. The rain rises up and of course the whole city is now having the monsoon rain. On the top of the reservoir, in this graveyard on the, on the top of the hill, there was a water reservoir and it breaks and that water comes down. That's later on I learned and washed me out. And of course there it was. I was floating in the water in the middle of the night, about three o' clock in the morning. And of course, and I said how am I swimming or how I'm floating because I don't swim. And as soon as I thought about it, oh, I started sinking. So I started sinking, I quickly, you know, to rescue myself. There was A branch of a tree. It was a banyan tree. And I climbed into it. And of course, later on. So now just think about the next day, I was back at the university. Near the university, there are several gates. But with this gate, there was a kiosk and there was a newspaper stand. And on the newspaper, the Daily Junk said, last night, 232 people were drowned because of the monsoon rain.

[David Lee Corbo]

Wow.

[Dr. Massoud]

And here I was. Now think about this thing going through the corridor. And those four people who did this to me, they saw me. Two of them ran away, and one plopped down, didn't know what he was doing, and the other one started crying. I didn't do it. And I don't know. People want to know. Yeah, of course I shared the gospel through Jonah. Types of brimstone. But maybe they wanted to hear it or maybe God let me do it. So they put here.

[Top Lobster]

They buried you because you went there to share the gospel.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, I was. I was a student there.

[Top Lobster]

And then you went back.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, I went back.

[Top Lobster]

No, that's crazy. You know that, right?

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, you know, Paul could do that, right? He went back. So there are times that we don't want to do things. But then. And that very evening, I was crying. I said, lord, I thought, this life will be so much easy. And so, you know, there are times when you are upset, you don't want to switch on even the light, even if it's the evening. And there was light from the streets coming through the window. My Bible was open and like somebody put his hand behind me on my shoulder. And in a very simple way, I could understand who he was talking to me, saying, I let this happen to you so that you will say things clearly as it is. Don't wrap in a cloth and present it, stay as it is. Not only say, yes, that's not the case, but say, Jesus is the only way.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And I just cried. Yes, I used to say, but I would say, you know, find it for yourself. Read Matthew, chapter 5, chapter 6, chapter 7. Because Muslims believe in the five pillars of Islam, the prayer and the fasting and the giving and all this, and what Jesus said about fasting, about prayer, about giving and all that, that they would find out and that how, why Jesus is the only way. So I would talk, but talk very politely, leaving it to them. But there are times that politeness have to be put aside. And that's what the Lord wanted to tell me, that you are doing this. Why don't you tell them clearly this is poison for you.

[Top Lobster]

How is that how has that been received by, by like the Muslim community in general? Because we, we deal with a little bit of that as well. We're very like direct speakers and a lot of people don't like, yes, the way I put things or the way I say things also that comes with sometimes crude, sometimes like laced with comedy. But it needs to be said, but

[Dr. Massoud]

it still has to be said clearly. Yeah, that. Okay, at the end of the day, yes, all these lovey dovey type of things. But there were times and moments, not just once, but always that Jesus was totally.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

Because of division among the Pharisees, the Sadducees and even other people. Oh, why he's talking like this?

[Top Lobster]

Well, he said he came. He's going to divide you from your

[Dr. Massoud]

family, even so that we have to share. Yes. Because the message is about eternal life, not here, but there. But that eternity starts from here. We all have to go one day. Yes. This life is given once and we should use it to the full for his glory. Don't just walk into a trap, but at the same time say it. And say it clearly that at the end of the whole thing, this is the way Jesus is the only Savior. There are Christians nowadays, they will say, oh, you know, even Jesus said that those who are not against us, they are with us. Of course, but you are taking that out of context. He also says that those who are not with me, they are against me.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yes.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

So you got a big problem here. So the problem to be solved is clearly that in these last days God has spoken to us through His Son. Period. And that's what. Yes, we believe in the law, but at the same time we believe in his grace and mercy. We also, as followers of Christ now do lot of good things, but we don't do that to get some brownie points. We do that in thankfulness that God has already done that. That's what I share that with my Muslim friends. That friends, we are also doing lot of good things while you do it in the hope that these brawny points will perhaps get you there. But still you do not know, we do those things in thankfulness, that God has already done those things for us. And because he said, if you love me, you will keep my commandment. And that's why we do all these good things, as you see. But otherwise we are all fallen people.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, that's it. Right. It's this idea that we're not going to get in by works, but that we have salvation through grace and that that's been given to us. And we're sinners and we're fallen. So who are we to not give it to someone else? And it's not because we're giving it to you so that we might, you know, be saved or that we won't perish, but it's because, wow, look at this thing that's been given to me. Who, you know, you're talking about Pastor, Pastor Rick and this whole thing about being a worm, you know, that, that, you know, we're not a man. I saw somebody post something recently. They were asked if they were a good person and they quoted scripture. And the scripture very clearly says that none of us are righteous. None of us are righteous. So the answer is no, actually. So you're not a good person. You are fallen, you're not righteous, you are a sinner. And still you have been given salvation. And so the reason that you turn around and give it to somebody else, you give grace and you give kindness and things like that to other people is because it's unbelievable that you've been a recipient of it, not because it's going to get you into heaven.

[Top Lobster]

Weren't the Jews supposed to take this, like, this is Old Testament stuff. Weren't they supposed to take this and actually spread it around rather than hoard it to themselves?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, they should have done that and they made that.

[Top Lobster]

That's a huge mistake that they made. And now we end up here with this, like, odd fractured. It's such a strange thing when you have Islam, Judaism, Christianity and even like, I don't know, Mormonism. They all kind of like split off from this very thing, this one thing that is very true.

[David Lee Corbo]

And they're also like, it's remarkable to me how close Islam is. You're, you're looking for mercy and grace. You're looking for the way. And, and, and you believe in all these, you know, Old Testament prophets and, and Moses and all these different things, but all of them are pointing towards Jesus is saying, I am the way, the truth and the life.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

You know, Jesus is, you know, mercy and like all of these things are, are right there. And Islam is, is so close.

[Top Lobster]

What, in your opinion, what do you think?

[David Lee Corbo]

Too far away in the most important aspect of everything, the most important detail, it just one step off the line and it goes to show you, you know, top will often talk about sin in the, in the way of a, of a marksmanship terminology. And so to sin is to miss the target. And if you deviate just a little

[Dr. Massoud]

bit, you know, now eventually it gets somewhere else.

[David Lee Corbo]

So, so far down the line, it's deviated incredibly far. That's exactly what we're looking at here with Islam is very close.

[Top Lobster]

Well, not just.

[David Lee Corbo]

But the path is narrow.

[Top Lobster]

That's the thing. It always bothers me when people like, they pick on Islam and they beat it up. And I'm like, yeah, I get it. But that's me too. Right? Like this is. It's just a miss is a miss. That's it. And it starts from back, like the archery term. It's going to start from back here. But if I'm off by a centimeter here, it's off by a foot over there. So, yeah, I can look at Islam and be like, yeah, them. I can look at the Jews. I could be like, yeah, them. I can look at even Christians in the church. And I go, yeah, them. And then I go, what? Well, me too.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

And it's just, I don't know, I, I hate, I hate like, pointing. We did, we did a lot of pointing. We've done a lot of pointing at like, yeah, things. And it's just like, I don't know

[Dr. Massoud]

again, you know, I have to say, when we talk about Muslims, it's not the Muslims which are the problem, it's the ideology behind them which is a problem. Once you respond to that ideology, then it's the ball is in their code to that Jesus. Because your ideology teaches you about God's grace and mercy too. You don't have to go and kill other people for God to get into the paradise of God. First of all, how do you know? Yes, the Quran does say that those who are killed for God, they will enter. And those who kill for God as well will enter into the paradise of God. That's one assurance. But here is the question. How do you decide that a particular war in which you are part of or taking place, that that war is for God? It could be a geopolitical war. It could be some other trick. So how do you decide? Well, we cannot go on and on like that. God already took the initiative. He sent his own to die for you, my Muslim friend, and for me. So that by believing in him we will have the eternal life. So that your life will be saved here and there as well. Yes, this life is today, here and tomorrow it's gone. But there is eternity awaits. How is it that God would say this? Through Jesus, that I have come to give life. On the one side, he says there is no one, everyone is condemned, no one is righteous. Even the Quran says that if God Wants to punish everyone. He would not leave even one soul on this earth. But then again, it does not give hope. How does one get the hope? Well, that hope is available to them, to you, to me, and all these 2 billion Muslims through Jesus.

[David Lee Corbo]

So the, the Quran doesn't do anything about repentance and salvation.

[Dr. Massoud]

The Quran does talk the word. The terms are there. But Islam has borrowed biblical vocabulary, but it has its own exposition of it, your own dictionary. So yes, it talks about repentance and toba. And then it says, and those who do the righteous work, God will not destroy their righteous work, they will still be given a reward for it. But then God turns around and he says he has already created some for hell and some for paradise.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, so this is almost like a Calvinistic approach.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, a Calvinistic, but it's more dangerous than that. So that God right in the beginning decided who are his and who are not that these people who will do the wrong things because God has desired them to do all the wrong things, he will still send them to hell. And these are people who are doing all the good things. They will be sent to the paradise. But then again, it says that it's in his hand that on that day, if he decides, he will let them get him. So some places there is always a contradictory situation. So most of the passengers will say, Muhammad will not intercede. He cannot. Because only a person who has never sinned can intercede. Well, in the case of Muhammad, he was told, ask for forgiveness for your sin and for the sin of your people. In the same way we see that in the Bible. But Jesus was the only one who said, who among you can make me guilty of any sin I may have committed? So even a person like Peter, I mean Pilate, could stand up and say, I don't see any problem with him. Why are you saying all these things? Peter himself said that although he was tried and everything, there was nothing found even in his mouth to say. So these are some of the things which we can clarify with, with Muslims that there is a path available. But at the end of the day, you do not want to believe. That's up to you. Again, we are the one who would say for you is then your faith and for me is my faith. Yes, God has blessed you and you are living such in a free country and all this. But do realize that the moment your faith uses certain rules and regulation which are against the constitution of this country, then you are in trouble. And I wish that your politicians in this country will be quite clear about that. Yes, you can practice your faith, but at the moment you realize, just think about it, that here is a person who has become an apostate and now they want to kill him even in this country. Or a girl decided that she would not marry the person her parents, but to marry another person whom she thinks is a best match. And then you go and want to kill her, do the honor killing, that type of thing then is a problem. And then also Islam in itself says clearly that they have to establish whether we like it or not. So like we have Vishi washi Christians, they have vishy washi Muslims.

[David Lee Corbo]

Sure.

[Dr. Massoud]

The only thing is that when a Christian becomes. When a vishy washi Krishna become a follower of Christ, he becomes more loving and kind, not only to himself, but also to his family and to other families, people as well, and to the community. When a Muslim become really a practicing Muslim and he goes into it, he becomes more what we call radical. And that because there is only one Islam and there is only one Christianity. One biblical way of reaching. Yes. So they just go on that way and they want to because they don't have an assurance of eternal life. So to make it much easier for them, they say, okay, I will go and do in the name of God a few atrocities. We call it atrocities, they will call it that work for God.

[Top Lobster]

Right?

[Dr. Massoud]

Right. To kill the infidels or to do something and then be killed and will go. That's what happened to 9, 11 and lot of other places these things are happening that other people are slaughtered and they themselves slaughtered them as well. So that's the world we are living in. I'm so surprised that people ask me this question that how people can change. Just to give you My example, two of my brothers were killed in Afghanistan in 2003 when the American forces were in Afghanistan. Now I could have been there going against your brothers and sisters there who were fighting a cause. Whatever that cause was, we will leave that. Otherwise we will be here for a whole day.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, we know what the cause was.

[Dr. Massoud]

But here is something. While these brothers were thinking that that was God's calling for them to do the jihad first against the Russians and now against the infidels, infidels of America. But why was I not there? Because I had been already reached with the gospel. I understood. So you and I as followers of Christ are also involved in against the terrorism. And that is to help these Muslims, to re educate them, to help them that you know what cause you are fighting. God already caused that and himself completed it for you. So that you will have life. And that's what we have to share. This is what I do through Jesus to Muslim ministry, to into the Light and several other. We have common things we talk about and that's what it's all about at the end of the day, but the end of whole thing. The message is that salvation is available to us through Christ. My Muslim friend, you are looking for grace and mercy. That grace and mercy has already been given through Christ.

[Top Lobster]

I guess I have like two, two final questions as we wrap it up with tremendous.

[Dr. Massoud]

Thank.

[Top Lobster]

Thanks for your time.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, this is a fascinating conversation.

[Dr. Massoud]

They can read this book and of course there are a lot of other things. Here is another book which I have written, Jesus the Bible and Islam Abiding in Truth. It's available on Amazon and also available on our website. There are other books as well, more than Conquerors and One God, One Mediator and One People.

[David Lee Corbo]

These are all available on the website.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, the links will be in the description when this goes live. That's jesustomuslims.org you can go through there. It's like the second link right below. I, I wanted to ask two, so two questions, final questions as we go with this ministry you've been doing for 50 years, you said?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, in different format. Yes, sure.

[Top Lobster]

In different format. Yeah, here and there. And now it's kind of, it's, it's, it's really cool to, to see it happening in this library because there's always like any manner of things going on in this place. It's kind of insanity. There's a dead bear right outside. Have you, do you think that you're, you're making progress with your ministry? How, how have things been going? Do you think our efforts snowballing? Are they slowing down for you? What, what have you been seeing?

[David Lee Corbo]

We want to hear about the winds

[Top Lobster]

or the, or the losses. What have you been seeing as you've been doing this?

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, I see that on one hand, while the Middle east and the Muslim world, the actual Muslim world is leaving Islam, something very strange is happening that in the West, Muslims are finding more sympathizers on this side.

[Top Lobster]

Well, I can tell you why. What is your theory on why first? And then I'll, I'll explain what I think because I've been seeing the same thing.

[Dr. Massoud]

Please go ahead and.

[Top Lobster]

Okay. Within the Christian community and, and America in general, when we're talking like a broad, not just the political spectrum, but culturally, there has been a feminization like we talk about this often, a feminization of Men. Yeah. And especially in Christianity, there has been a softening, there's been a feminization of culture. Christianity. When you look at some of the. Maybe the new, new apostolic, what do they call? Reformation churches? And. And nothing against them, it's just there is this, like, wispy, soft Jesus that's presented to people.

[David Lee Corbo]

And in fact, Dr. Massoud touched on that earlier in the episode. This idea that Jesus was actually very pointed. Yeah. Very direct and very stern with his words. That's not the Jesus that Western culture has presented.

[Top Lobster]

He's the guy that got killed for what he said because he said it and he pushed their face in when he said it. And he insulted these people.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

The highest rank of, you know, the political class at the time. And I think America has seen that. And America is also coming out of this. This time of. You see what's going on socially, where it's like, a man could be a woman, all this nonsense. America's seeing that and turning away from that. And they're embracing masculinity. So masculinity now is coming in a bunch of different forms. One, the manosphere is something online where young men are now embracing people like, I don't know, influencers, celebrity influencers. And these guys are, in my opinion, most of them are poison. They're unmarried people, no children. And they're going to tell young men how to be men. And they're. But young men are going to follow it because there is an absence. There's been a.

[David Lee Corbo]

What would you call, power vacuum?

[Top Lobster]

It's a power vacuum. So they're being sucked in. And Islam, it's one of the things that, like, from the outside perspective, that I do appreciate where they go. You know, they might lie to you a little bit on the edges here, but when it comes to the, like, when it comes to the nitty gritty, they're gonna be like, well, just cut your head off. You know, and there's something about that. There's some, like, definitive nature of saying, well, no, this is actually what I believe. And I don't care what you think. As a matter of fact, screw you. This is what's happening. Should that. I don't know Christianity's place in that. I don't think Christianity is a. Is going to shove. It shouldn't shove itself down your throat. But there needs to be a masculine aspect of, say, saying, you know, okay, yeah, I hear you. You're wrong. So what. What are you going to do about it? You know, I'm not going to kill you, but Whatever, you're wrong. And that's lacking, although I think it's. There's a little bit of a resurgence in that. There's. There are people out there that are embodying that, and hopefully they take it the right way, because that can go into. If you get into Christian nationalism now, we're just talking about. That's what. That's what Islam has done when they, like, the Taliban has taken over and they've created their own governmental system. That's also a trap. You can't go too far in that direction.

[David Lee Corbo]

This is something that we talk about on the show a lot, where the Christian nationalism thing is coming to the forefront of popular culture. And I think there is a fundamental flaw in becoming a Christian, because you do not like power.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

You don't like the previous status quo. You don't like the left. You don't like the lgbtq. You don't like the ideology. Instead, it should be about trying to understand God, pursuing the truth, and developing a relationship with God. But that's. That should be the guiding. That is slow.

[Top Lobster]

That's slow. And these people have taken, like, there's been the idea of Jesus's king used as a hammer to hit someone over the head with, and it's, like, cool, but that's. It's not a weapon, it's a proclamation, and instead they use it to attack. So this is. We're seeing that as a response, but I think that's why you see in the west, this uptick of them looking at Islamism as this. Like, there's a mat. There is a certain masculinity to it, and there is a certain foundation to it, and it. It embodies and resembles strength. So people who don't understand real strength are going to go to that, you know, and that. That's sort of what's happening, and we'll see how that plays out.

[Dr. Massoud]

My. My approach and understanding is a little bit different in that way, because I see, when I look at America, I also look at the situation of Israel, because there is a kind of, like, comparison there, that here was America, that at one time, even the Congress give permission, the Bible should be printed, and all these other things. And of course, the things have changed and all this has happened, but the things which happen in Israel and are happening see similar situations here. Now, don't get me wrong. One thing I know is that to whom much is given, much will be required. America has done a lot when it came to Christian outreach, maybe not on the governmental basis, but there has been Places that people have reached very much to take the gospel very much. But while doing that, the people forgot to build up the next generations. And that's what happened. They went so far to help other people so much that they didn't care for their own household. Well, the scripture clearly says that a person who does not take care of his own family is worse than unbeliever. So here is America. You want to go and help wide

[Top Lobster]

and you're gonna give democracy to Afghanistan,

[Dr. Massoud]

to every, every country you want to teach and all this and then give, of course showing your own type of Christianity, giving them the shirt on your back to them. But there is more to it and there is more to it is like this, you know, when we travel by air in the time of emergency, we are advised to first put the mask on our face and then we will be able, because of the availability of the oxygen to help other people. If we don't do that because of a lack of oxygen, we may do things which could be totally wrong. Well, we didn't care very much about that here in America. And so America is living on a very low oxygen rate and is still trying to help other people and embracing and taking everything. But it had forgotten what the scripture clearly says. Like when Peter, John and James were kind of asked, why do you take this name? Just shut up and don't take this name. And they said, clearly judge for yourself. Should we listen to you or should we listen to God? Because we cannot stop ourselves. So instead of making kind of compromises in a way to be all embracing, it's a good thing for us and for other people to tell them beforehand what is our criterion. Like in my case, I say pin it on the scripture here. This is what the scripture says. If you are attacking the scriptures, let's talk about that, the integrity of it. The same is in this country, that unless people return to what they are and that is what God has done, these things may work or may not work because it's the same story like Israel, there were good people and then there were bad people. And it came from the hierarchy all the way down. And I see that an example, I'm not comparing in a way in a kind of democratic way and all this thing, but. Or a republican way. But I'm saying that when people kind of push everything away and God is not in that, because as an outsider, when I look at America, you know, even your dollar note says

[Top Lobster]

in God

[Dr. Massoud]

we trust, in God we trust.

[Top Lobster]

But do we?

[Dr. Massoud]

But do you? And you want to be me Me, the myology comes. So not anymore God, but me. And God says, okay, you want it your way, then there it is. Yeah, but because there are other people who want to follow Christ and they keep pleading. So the Abrahamic story comes along when Abraham saw the situation of Sodom and Gomorrah and Abraham said, what if there are 50 people? What if there are 10 people? But God couldn't find. We are so thankful to God that there are still people in this country who stand for the truth and they show from their lives. And I believe I have been traveling all over the world in 18 countries. I'm not wanted anymore. So want to kill me my own country and Saudi Arabia. But here it is. When you travel around the world and you come back to this country,

[David Lee Corbo]

forget

[Dr. Massoud]

about, you know, people who in fastland, fast food and get annoy you. But you compare that freedom you have in this country with the freedom, the way you travel and the way you do that.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And you are thankful when you come back here. At least I do that as well. And I've seen others doing that. And then they it dawns on you, oh no, we are still. This is a country where God still rules. Yes. On every corner there are churches and other things. And God will ask us on the day of Judgment. I don't know you. Why? Why God? Well, you have the church, you have that. But what about those other people? You did not even invite them or ask them, or share with them the gospel or do all these things. To whom much is given, much will be required. Yes. There are a lot of churches and a lot of others. They are doing a lot of things. But there should be a balance because it goes from one extreme to other. Some are establishing hospitals and all these other things around the world. But then they are not doing anything in their own community. First your own Jerusalem.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

Your own Judea, your own Samaria and then the world. That's the way Jesus. This is what Jesus did, came to the Jews. I'm not saying that forget about the world. No. But take action into it. So these are some of the things that they have to Please forgive me. I kind of go, no, no, no, no, grab a cheese there. But these are some of the things which had to be. But still to be thankful that how much freedom we have in this country, I'm not sure. But you may have seen some of the interviews with these people who have come to play games in this country and they were asked and they look at America and the way life is here. They love it yeah.

[Top Lobster]

Are you talking about the World Cup?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes, the World cup and several other. Of course, there are a lot of other problems with it, but deep down in their heart, there are people. They're saying, how are they managing? If they can have it, why can't we have it? Because the seed, which was sown 250 years ago, that is still blooming and still the tree is really. But again, the question is, would this tree still stand as it continues? Would our children and their children will still stand with the purpose with which this country stands?

[Top Lobster]

The answer is no. If it's not. This is a. I know you might have seen this thing. It's a joke. We call our listeners dangerous because we call them, which is not nice. But this is the word retard, dio, which is Latin. It's Latin for retard, means return, and dio means God. So we put them together and it just means return to God. And it's a fun way. Like, we like to joke at our listeners at this. They get it. They better get it.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah. No, as you have mentioned, I realize what you mean.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

But like, it's a. It's a. Like I said, we're direct.

[Dr. Massoud]

Opens a question and opens.

[Top Lobster]

Opens a dialogue. Yeah, exactly. It might offend you at first, but that's. So. I don't care. Then it's not for you, but it's for the person that. That will laugh at it and go, what do you mean? And we go, well, this is what we mean, actually. And this is why. Because what you just said is 100 true.

[Dr. Massoud]

And.

[Top Lobster]

And, yeah, well, it's a question that I ask all the time. You guys have seen my kids running around here, and I look at them and I'm like, what's going to be left for them here? I don't know, but it really depends on which way this country goes. Thankful that people like you are doing the heavy lifting.

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, you see, your forefathers and others, yes, they were also fallen people, but still, there were etiquettes. I mean, yesterday we were celebrating Father's Day, and we were shocked to find out that 45% of the country of America is fatherless.

[Top Lobster]

It's rough. Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

I mean, I don't know how the pastor got that information, but here is. I believe that even if it was 20%, it's too much. It's too much.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And there is a big responsibility for the men folk to. Especially for the fathers to return and say, okay, this much, but stop. From now on, I will take the responsibility.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And that's what. But not the responsibility, just doing it yourself. Take God in that whole circle that says, with his help, I will do.

[Top Lobster]

And that's a heavy responsibility.

[David Lee Corbo]

You know, we need the return of the fathers and the father. Right. I mean, that's, that's that before when Top was describing that cultural yearning for, you know, a strong man or.

[Top Lobster]

It's for fathers.

[David Lee Corbo]

It's for fathers.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

And both spiritual and physical fathers, actual fathers. So, yeah, it's a.

[Top Lobster]

The cool thing is you could find a lot of those, like, different in different ways. I mean, in a sense, Matt is like our, our, our father. Like when, when we call up with Daddy. No, I don't. When we meet up with scripture and stuff like that, he's there to guide and point in a direction. I have a father as well. I mean. Yeah, so it comes in many different formats, but you just need more people like that. Last question, favorite question.

[David Lee Corbo]

You, you know, you've. You've laid out this story. 50 years of, of a ministry trying to get killed.

[Top Lobster]

50 years.

[David Lee Corbo]

50 years of not getting killed.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, several of my friends have been killed, several others have gone. Just to give you one incident when the Nizami Mustafa in Pakistan gave me a kind of decision which I could appeal against. That, yes, capital punishment granted not only to me, but there were two others as well. And one of my friend who was also in England at that time, he wanted to go back and appeal it. And we prayed about it. And the council or the eldership said, abid, you should not do that. Abid did not listen, said, no, I love that country so much. I said, we love the country so much, but we should use this life to the full for his glory. He left. He arrived at the airport. From airport there were about 15 miles. He had to travel by taxi. He traveled. He was only one block away from the Supreme Court. Two motorcyclists came, sprayed bullets on the taxi. The poor taxi driver died. Passerby died, and he died too. That's the world we are living in. I do not understand. Sometimes even I wrestle with this thing with God. How is it, Lord, in the Book of Acts says that when James was nabbed by Agrapa, he killed him right away. When Agraba said that the Jewish people were so happy about it. What he did was he nabbed Peter as well. But in the case of Peter, God sent an angel to rescue that why him and not why him and why not why me still living? And other lot of things happen in my life. Acid had been Thrown and all that. And just in the right moment I turn around and the whole acid bottle was on my leather jacket. Think about it. It could have been me because I talk too much when I'm walking around and I'll think. And here was at the student hall at the university and other places at one time somebody put a. It's a type of bomb that. Which heats up and then explodes. And I was in the evening speaking, it was very cold weather, speaking at a church. My car was outside and you know, people start talking and all this and they left and I put my. I started the car and left it running so it will be warm enough when I go. And so I come back, everybody is gone. And the cleaner person started talking to me in the church and we hear this big blast and we thought because there is a motorway nearby, that perhaps a truck was passing by and puncture happened. But then in few minutes there were fire brigade coming. So we opened the door. The front of my car was on fire, the engine was on fire and all this. Later on they found, you know, they investigated that it was a type of device that when it warms up. Can you imagine if I had driven off? Yeah. And it had blown, not only I would have killed myself, but a few other people on the road. That's the world we are living in. Right. In England, this happened. This is the same England on which from 1980, 81 I've been writing articles, the bloodless Jihad and all these other things mentioning. Yes, I love Muslims, I was one. But there is the Islamic ideology which is a problem and we should be aware of it. But no, I was always told tolerance. Tolerance, yes, but tolerance for what? So there is an end to a tolerance. Yeah, it's like, you know, you spoil a baby and that boy, baby grows up, he's going to damage a lot of other things as well. Yeah. Not only his life, but the life of other people as well and the life of the people who loved him so much. And that's what has happened. My own Christian friends were not listening, whether it was the Bishop of Durham or the Bishop of Manchester and all these other things, you know, Church of England. And they were upset, but those other people who were on my side, they couldn't do, you know, how much you can do anything here if you have a hierarchy which will not listen to you.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

So it's the same. And now that tolerance have backfired on them as well.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And this is now here, of course,

[David Lee Corbo]

trying to do the same thing here.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, A lot of friends tell me, no, it will not happen. This I desire that it will not happen, that there will be something more to it.

[David Lee Corbo]

But the signs are there.

[Dr. Massoud]

Signs are there. And we should learn from our history. We should learn from other people's history and from other countries as well. I mean, think about the British Empire, what it was and what it became and what happened to it. Had it not been America stepping into World War II, things would have been totally different. The whole Europe would have been taken. But here is America, which helped to help Germany, to help even the Muslim world and to help Japan and Philippines and other now is breathing situations is really hard for it. And that's why this country needs to first, it should help its own people so that those people will then be able to help the world. And that's the way we have to do it. Otherwise if we are not doing that. This is why some people. I'm not interested in the politics of this country, but this politics of this country gave me freedom as well. And because I'm interested in that freedom, there is this thing which I would say, and this is why one thing I like of the governmental system here, that they are asking that these European countries that for such a long time we have been helping you. When are you going to stand on your feet? I mean it's like people living in the villages still paying the mortgage of their children and their children.

[David Lee Corbo]

It's a welfare state situation that's very strange.

[Dr. Massoud]

So I don't know if I can explain it more clearly, but that's the way I'm thinking that yes, we have to help, yes we have to do things, but then again decide where is this happening, where is it going? The same is with churches. When they want to help, there are people coming in and they are providing help. Where is that help going? How is this done? There should be accountability and that accountability is a big problem in this country.

[Top Lobster]

We'll see if it comes. But I guess it's kind of hard to ask that last question. Well, I was saying he's like a bunch of his friends got killed. You're like, I know, I know you're having fun.

[David Lee Corbo]

Well, I mean, I think it still is an important question, you know, given what you're doing and how much it's changed and all the forms that it's taken throughout the last 50 years. Would you say that the current rendition is one that you're, you're having fun in

[Dr. Massoud]

the current tradition? Would you explain that to me?

[David Lee Corbo]

So your books, your ministry. Yeah, I mean everything that you're doing. Is this something that you would call fun?

[Dr. Massoud]

It's not just fun, but it's a responsibility as well. And I like it to do this because life could be here today and gone tomorrow. So whatever I know what I'm doing is I'm putting it together as much as I can so that when I'm gone, everything will be. The boards know about it, our board know about it, that everything will be in public domain still. It's in public domain, actually we don't talk about it, but it's all there because the Ms. Ministry has to be run as well.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

God is the provider, but he makes other people who are dedicated into this cause also they support the ministry. But all this information which we have, because when I was, when I became a follower of Christ, there was nothing that helped to reach Muslim. It was I who was taking the initiative or a few other discipler who had known these things, how to talk about it. But they were mostly missionaries, but not kind of like it was open, like as if today. So that's why I'm doing all these things together. So when I'm gone, it could be today, it could be tomorrow, it could be another 20, 30 years. I'm 74, 75 years old here. I could be older because the country I come from, especially from the northern region of Pakistan, people don't remember very much. They will say, oh, so and so was ruling. And this happened and there was a big flood.

[Top Lobster]

Big flood. How old are they?

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah. Pakistan is also, you know, a country which, from the north, when the ice melts away, a lot of flood comes as well. Yeah. And the monsoon rain, because the Indian Ocean takes all the. The cloud towards the Himalayan mountain. And then it starts raining.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, that's crazy.

[Dr. Massoud]

So it becomes crazy. Yeah. When it arrives in the river.

[David Lee Corbo]

I've seen videos.

[Dr. Massoud]

India is just insane. And because it's, I mean, on the mountain sides it's okay. But when it comes down into the plains, it's water is everywhere.

[Top Lobster]

Yes, it comes down and it's like usually dry over there.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

So when the water comes, doesn't absorb,

[David Lee Corbo]

it doesn't go into the ground.

[Dr. Massoud]

So flash floods and Pakistan still has a problem. It doesn't very much work. It has two, three dams, but if you don't clean it and you don't do things to it, it'll be destroyed. And so they have never learned the lesson for in the past, since 1947, Pakistan became, in the name of Islam, a country.

[Top Lobster]

In 1947.

[David Lee Corbo]

Interesting, interesting time.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah. It was the subcontinent India British were ruling. So Britain wanted to leave after World War. So the Muslims in India thought it would be much better that the country is divided according to the religion they did accept. But they put that they will divide the whole continent on the question where Muslims are in majority that will become Pakistan. So you can imagine two Pakistans were established. One was West Pakistan, the other one was East Pakistan which is nowadays Bangladesh. A thousand mile in between the two countries of course always West Pakistan has been ruling the whole of Pakistan. And so East Pakistani people who speaks another language Bangla. They said okay, yes, we are Muslim, but we want our country as well. Because every time is the President and the Prime Minister are selected from West Pakistan. What about us? And so back in 1971, as I mentioned, there was war between India and Pakistan. That was what was going on. And they rebelled and became that country. So I'm not sure why I told you all this.

[Top Lobster]

No, it's interesting. I think we kind of asked because if 47 is a crazy year, a lot of stuff happens in 47.

[David Lee Corbo]

We're like for us it's the beginning of the CIA, the end of World War II, the beginning of a bunch of programs intelligence. Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

Israel came into existence in 1948.

[David Lee Corbo]

It's a very, very peculiar time.

[Dr. Massoud]

Had been wanted to do that, but still was wanted to keep a grip on the Middle East.

[David Lee Corbo]

Was that the Dead Sea Scrolls too were also found.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes. In 1947.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. A suspicious year.

[David Lee Corbo]

Very. Just a crazy, crazy year. Or a bunch of crazy things.

[Dr. Massoud]

There were some good things.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

As well. I mean the establishment of Israel and of course they were given. The other people called themselves Palestinian. They were given a chance to have other country but Jordan and Egypt did not like it because they had to lose some part of their land to establish this Palestine. So they didn't want to. So they indirectly started a war against Israel. You know the rest of the story.

[Top Lobster]

We're still doing it.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, still doing.

[Dr. Massoud]

Still continues. But God is still at work. Even the Dead Sea School. God still, still. There have been people who've been complaining and Snay is saying all these Christians they quote Isaiah.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And Then these are 9th century manuscript they have and all this thing and well then they found Dead Sea School.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yep.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, interesting question. What do you. What's your take then on. On the Book of Enoch? Obviously the show. It's a kind of a joke about Nephilim Death squad. We don't really even talk about Nephilim anymore.

[David Lee Corbo]

But it was very much in the start of it. But it takes you everywhere.

[Top Lobster]

So Enoch is mentioned in Jude, it's

[Dr. Massoud]

quoted directly and it's in the Dead Sea scroll as.

[Top Lobster]

Do you lend any veracity to it?

[Dr. Massoud]

Well, I mean, Jude mentions it, as you mentioned that. But then here is another question comes along that Paul was quoting from in the Book of Acts. We find in chapter 17 many of the Athenian philosophy. Does that mean that we should accept that? So it becomes a question that here is.

[Top Lobster]

That's actually a great point.

[Dr. Massoud]

Here's Jude referring to that. Even Paul mentions that those people who take. Get baptism for the dead people if there is no resurrection. So even their thinking is, although Mormons will say, oh, that's why we baptize dead people. But what theological thing aspect he was mentioning that those people who are even wrong, they are further wrong. Because if we say Christ was not resurrected, then all these things mean nothing. Right. So in that respect, I see. Yes, there is a possibility. There were many books like in the Old Testament, we would be reading something and then it will say the book of Hashir says this. And this book has more information. This book has more information. So somehow it is quite acceptable when it comes to Jesus. He was. He quoted quite a few things. And even these apostles mentioned quite a few things from the Bible. But most of the Bible they were presenting is like the Jewish people had accepted why these other books were aside. I think that they even they believe that some of them are apocrypha. Like there are apocryphal gospels. There were apocryphal things as well. So like Paul said, test everything and hold on to what is good. So the Bible is our criterion. That's the main thing for us because it was accepted by the majority of the people. And these other things, if they are to be used for further kind of support.

[Top Lobster]

Exploration.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah, exploration. Why not?

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. That's kind of how we treat it. It's like a. It's an interesting side story. Not scripture.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yes.

[Top Lobster]

But we go, oh, wow, Fascinating.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah. All right. See, for example, the Quran says a lot of things about. And Muslims believe a lot of things about Jesus which our Jewish friends do not. Does it mean that I should take the Quran as the word of God? It's a problem because there are main themes missing there. And so you set it aside that, okay, this Jesus believed by them, his virgin birth is believed on them. And of course that he performed miracles according to the Quran as well. And he will raise the dead. So much so that at one place the Quran says that when Jesus was growing up, he will make birds of clay and will breathe into them and they will fly away. So all those other things, it doesn't bother me very much. But what bothers me is that the main purpose God sent Jesus into this world, that's missing from the Quran. So I will be very careful. The same is with the Book of Enoch. That, okay, it is here, it is attributed to Enoch, but how much story goes behind or beyond that? When was it written? And of course they will say, well, it was perhaps 100 years before Christ, this book was in existence among them. But again, we do not know. So we just leave it aside and say, okay. What we know is that collectively the criterion is the scripture. For us, if whatever is in the Book of Enoch appears also in the scripture, we take that now. There are certain studies and study on angels and the fallen angels which are available in these type of books. What should we do? But is this part of our faith that if I don't believe in them.

[David Lee Corbo]

No, it's not a salvation issue. Right.

[Dr. Massoud]

So it's not a salvation issue.

[Top Lobster]

We look at it, we'll end it here. But we look at it like a. Especially with like the coming UFO stuff, there's like a lot of like weird alien things going on. And I just kind of use this as a little bit of a. A guide to sort of discern some of these things that are coming, that demonic things.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, yeah. And even at the least, it's a fascinating window into what they were people of that era thought about, you know, the spiritual realm and, and the entities that inhabited the earth or, you know, any of these things. But like you said, it's not a salvation issue.

[Top Lobster]

We didn't even touch the like the outer space idea. We didn't even touch.

[David Lee Corbo]

Please. There's so much.

[Dr. Massoud]

Yeah. The Muslims are doing himself. And then look, the Old Testament prophet who was taken and Elijah is saying, teacher, teacher, you are leaving me alone here. Yeah. So it's.

[Top Lobster]

And then there's that rocket at Mecca that again, I guess maybe for another episode, another conversation. There's like, there's a lot of stuff going on.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh yeah.

[Top Lobster]

Which is why we start to like, look at all these other things. It'll drive you crazy. But it's. I guess in the end none of it's really that important except for to stay away from it helps me to stay away from the obvious deception that's trying to be poked at us.

[Dr. Massoud]

As far as with the Blackstone of Mecca, there were many stones among. Even in Paul's time In these temples around. Even in the Book of Acts, we find that when people were very much against Barnabas and. And Paul, they said, you know, because they, they did not want to see people following Barnabas and Silas and Paul because all their business would go down. Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And so they said, you know, we have the stone which came from heaven, we have hit here in our midst in the temple. So there had been. People have been worshipping meteoroids

[Top Lobster]

for quite a while.

[Dr. Massoud]

For quite a while. So if a meteorite kind of appeared in somewhere in the desert and it was taken as to worship it. But the Arabs also have been doing. And they were actually. The Arabs were more borrowers of ideologies from around in that region. And that's what they did.

[Top Lobster]

Interesting. Very interesting. Well, Dr. Massoud, thank you again for coming on. I think fascinating conversation. I had a lot of fun.

[David Lee Corbo]

One more time, what's the name of the website just for people that are listening?

[Dr. Massoud]

It is Jesus to Muslims.org Jesus says it is. And T O and M U S L I m s muslims.org There you go, guys.

[Top Lobster]

Go over there. Go check that out. Check out the work that he's doing. Because it's, it's pretty cool.

[David Lee Corbo]

Not just a great resource for Muslims, but I mean, if, if you're a Christian as well, I mean, this is something that it seems like a really effective tool to help you along in your faith.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. You're gonna eventually run into a Muslim, so learn how to talk to him.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's true.

[Top Lobster]

Dr. Masud, thank you for coming on.

[Dr. Massoud]

While they are there, they can click on on the right side seminars and.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, I see. Yes. Yeah.

[Dr. Massoud]

And they can click on it and there are a lot of information available there on that page. There are further links. We have studies and we have. And if they go to the store side of it as well, they can find these books there. And. And of course, whatever we give to friends, we stand by it. And we also help Christian friends to how to reach Muslims. So we're there. And even if a Muslim wants to know more about Christ, we want to share. Yes. It all comes down that all the good things and everything which we are doing for what. And then it comes to our eternity. And that eternity is only available through Christ. Yes. The other side of the eternity is forever hell. So like Rahi Viddin, there is no compulsion in the faith if you want to really be on the right side. We believe that that is only through Christ.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, I agree. You're selling something. It's almost unfair what you're selling, right?

[David Lee Corbo]

The path is narrow.

[Top Lobster]

So guys, thank you for tuning in. And until next time, don't forget to obey, submit and comply. We'll see you later.

[Dr. Massoud]

Wait for.

[David Lee Corbo]

When the last trumpet sounds.