The White Lady w/ Jeff Finup

Summary

Nephilim Death Squad – “The White Lady” w/ Jeff Finup

Podcast: Nephilim Death Squad (TopLobsta Productions)
Hosts: David Lee Corbo (The Raven), Top Lobsta
Guest: Jeff Finup (Badgerland Legends)
Date: April 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode takes a deep dive into the mysterious Marian apparition known as the “White Lady” of Champion, Wisconsin, with guest folklorist and researcher Jeff Finup. The discussion explores the apparitions’ roots, historical and theological implications, Catholic and Protestant views on Mary, spiritual deception, miraculous occurrences, and the rise of supernatural phenomena in American folklore—in true NDS style, blending humor, biblical analysis, and a skeptical approach to the supernatural.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Jeff Finup and the Synchronicity of the Raven

[03:33 – 07:06]

• Jeff introduces himself as a Wisconsin-based writer and researcher focused on monsters, myths, cryptids, UFOs, hauntings, and forgotten history.
• Anecdote about Jeff seeing a raven (related to David’s nickname), sparking reflections on synchronicity and “conspiracy by marriage.”
  • “It’s profound to me.” – Jeff [05:13]
• Panel jokes about their wives’ tolerance for conspiracy talk.

2. The Story of the White Lady of Champion, Wisconsin

[07:06 – 20:25]

• Jeff recounts the 1859 Marian apparition to Adele Brise, a young Belgian Catholic immigrant, in remote Wisconsin farmlands.
  • Adele sees a glowing woman in white (“Queen of Heaven”) three times in a grove between a maple and hemlock.
  • The apparition tells Adele: “I am the Queen of Heaven who prays for the conversion of sinners... Make a general confession and offer communion for the conversion of sinners...” [16:24]
• Adele is tasked with teaching children catechism and providing Catholic education.
• Adele’s father builds a chapel at the apparition site; later, a school is founded.

3. Miraculous Survival during the Peshtigo Fire

[20:56 – 24:18]

• October 8, 1871: The deadliest fire in US history (Peshtigo Fire) sweeps through the region.
• The chapel and school, directly in the fire’s path, remain miraculously untouched as people gather and pray for Mary’s protection.
  • Father Pernin’s account: “Everything about them was destroyed. Miles of desolation everywhere but the convent school in Champion... shone like an emerald isle in a sea of ashes. The fire had not entered the chapel grounds.” [25:14]

4. Catholic and Biblical Theological Analysis

[26:05 – 33:01]

• David and Top express skepticism, noting that while the apparition appears benevolent, the biblical context for the “Queen of Heaven” (Jeremiah) is negative—linked to pagan deities (Ishtar, Asherah, etc.).
  • “Even hearing the term ‘Queen of Heaven’ is, like, within the biblical context, doesn’t seem to be a great thing.” – David [27:25]
• Jeff presents the Catholic defense: Jeremiah’s “Queen of Heaven” references predate Mary and pertain to paganism; Catholics see “Queen of Heaven” as a different, later title for Mary.
• Revelation 12 discussed as New Testament basis for Marian veneration (“woman clothed with the sun”), along with the doctrines of the Assumption and Dormition.
• Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholic differences are explored.

5. Assessing Spiritual Fruits and Deceptions

[39:37 – 51:56]

• The group debates whether apparitions like this are genuine, positive miracles or possible spiritual counterfeits.
  • “Focusing on Christ... makes it so that you can’t be deceived.” – David [45:09]
• Top and David argue that events like the Champion apparition serve to further “deify” Mary, potentially as a distraction or stumbling block away from Christ.
  • “In the end, what we have here is veracity to the deification of Mary... I don't subscribe to that at all.” – Top [49:17]
• A “Hail Mary” prayer is discussed, highlighting its absence from biblical instructions on prayer and its cultural ubiquity.

6. American Supernatural, Conspiracies, and Anomalies

[60:34 – 63:44]

• The podcast draws connections to America’s unique history of religious and supernatural encounters (e.g., Joseph Smith, Great Chicago Fire, fringe comet/firestorm theories).
• The team considers supernatural protection versus possible deception with miraculous events.

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Extended: Wisconsin Cryptids & Folklore

[64:47 – 87:40]

Wisconsin Dogman – The Beast of Bray Road

• Jeff relates the history of Dogman sightings in Wisconsin, including stories of werewolf-like creatures near Catholic sites and Native American mounds.
• Notable case: “Shagelman” encounter at a convent, where the creature utters “Gadara” (possibly referencing the biblical “Gadarene demoniac”).
• Parallels drawn to Egyptian Anubis and burial guardian myths.

The Weirdness of Bigfoot & Dogman Phenomena

• The panel delves into “woo”/metaphysical aspects: sudden silences, orbs, possible portals, mindspeak (telepathic communication), and government interest in these creatures.
• Theorizing on Dogman/Bigfoot as Nephilim, engineered entities, and their possible supernatural nature.
  • “The more you look at it, the less physical and the more sort of metaphysical it becomes.” – David [77:30]
• Discussion includes the overlap with UFOs, poltergeist activity, and the shift in cryptid research from pure flesh-and-blood creatures to quantum, interdimensional beings.

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Quotes & Notable Moments

• On Testing Spiritual Phenomena:
  “Things that don’t... you’re called to test the fruits of a spirit. And so far, despite my extreme skepticism, I can’t look at anything that’s been presented and go like that is inherently negative or inherently deceptive.” – David [26:05]

• On Marian Apparitions “Leading Astray”:
  “If legitimate, if true... in the end, what do we get besides, you know, we saved the chapel from a huge fire... In the end, what we have here is veracity to the deification of Mary.” – Top [48:47]

• Humor Break – The Bledsoe Prank:
  Jeff tricks David with a fake, dramatic New Age prophecy slide:
  “When the red star and Regulus are on the horizon in front of the gaze of the Sphinx... a new knowledge will come to humanity.” [15:10]
  (Bledsoe reference, intentionally misleading David to comic effect. [15:39])

• On Prayer and the “Hail Mary”:
  “Nowhere in the Bible that we’re instructed to pray to or for Mother Mary... All of that is absent in this prayer.” – David [56:24]
  “Maybe I’m going to hell, but I don’t know.” – Top [60:04]

---

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [03:33] – Introduction of guest Jeff, his work, and initial synchronicity story
• [07:06] – Beginning of the White Lady of Champion presentation
• [16:24] – Key message from “Queen of Heaven” apparition
• [24:18] – Account of the chapel’s miraculous survival during Peshtigo Fire
• [27:25] – Scripting the biblical basis (or lack thereof) for “Queen of Heaven”
• [33:01] – Revelation 12 and Catholic Marian doctrine discussion
• [39:37] – Assessing the supernatural—fruits, deification, and spiritual focus
• [64:47] – Wisconsin Dogman, Catholic ties, and the “Gadara” story
• [77:30] – Bigfoot, Dogman, and the metaphysical turn in cryptid research
• [92:11] – upcoming panel on CE5 (contacting entities through meditation/tech)
• [101:00] – Metaphor: shining a light in the cave (the investigative approach)
• [103:54] – Where to find Jeff online (Badgerland Legends)

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Overall Tone & Conclusion

The episode weaves humor, critical inquiry, and deep biblical analysis. The hosts maintain a skeptical-yet-open posture toward supernatural events, highlighting the importance of focusing on Christ as the anchor against deception in an increasingly strange spiritual landscape. Jeff’s storytelling and local knowledge bring a uniquely Midwestern flavor—tying forgotten history, cryptids, Marian apparitions, and powerful miracles into a single, thought-provoking American folk tale.

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Where to Find More

• Guest:

  • Instagram / Facebook: @BadgerlandLegends
  • Message Jeff with local legends or personal stories.

• Show:

  • Follow @TopLobsta and @NephilimDeathSquad for episodes blending Christian comedy, conspiracies, and honest supernatural deep dives.

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“Stay curious. Stay dangerous.”

Transcript

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[Top Lobster]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[Top Lobster]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[Top Lobster]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

They never went away. They're still here today. When the last trumpet sounds and the heavens crack level Death Squad. Nebulum Death Squad. That spot. Death spot. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven, that is Top Lobster, the father of disinformation. Before we get into today's guest, a little reminder. A great place to Support us is patreon.com/now/ephilim Death Squad. You sign up there, you're gonna gain access to episodes before the general public ad. Free listening experiences. You'll also be able to engage in the live chat when we go behind that paywall.

[Top Lobster]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[Top Lobster]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Every single one is gone. All the VIP in less than 48 hours. All the VIP tickets sold out. So thank you guys so much for that. And the good news is you can still get. I mean, it's all good news for us. But the good news is you can still get general admission tickets and those are going to be going on sale to the to the general public this coming Monday. So the 27th. So you got a couple of days left, guys, on the Patreon to get those tickets. Before the filthy pours do. And, and that's. That's going to be disgusting and off putting.

[Top Lobster]

Go ahead and grab [e-mail]. there you go. Or you can grab a T shirt if you don't want to come. And I can do that.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, why not both?

[Top Lobster]

Why not?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Why not both?

[Top Lobster]

Buy a T shirt, wash it.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, show up.

[Top Lobster]

We have a really fun guest.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

When you show up, show up clean. Also, I don't want to smell you. Joining us today is Jeff of Badgerland Legends. Jeff, thank you for joining us. Before we get into the conversation, tell everybody what it is you do and where they can find what it is you do.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, I'm a writer and researcher out of Wisconsin, so I focus mainly on monsters, myths, legends, you know, cryptids, UFOs, ghost hauntings and forgotten history. And I got a great piece of forgotten history for you guys today.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Very cool. Yeah, we were talking a little bit before the show. You said something interesting that I thought was kind of fun. You said that before or the day that you booked, a raven appeared in your, in your yard. You said your wife called you over and just before the show started, we were having this discussion. Raven is actually a decent sized bird, man. People think they see crows. Top's been seeing crows for a while. He thinks he's been seeing ravens. I'm like, no, dude, that's a big bird. When you see it, it stands out. In fact, I remember this video I was watching once of this woman. She's got this raven and it's, it's, it does a mimic and it can do like a human's voice or something to that effect. And I just remember it was horrifying. I think it was like laughing or doing something that was supposed to be like fun and cheerful. And the whole caption was like, if you heard this in the forest at night, you would almost certainly think you were being, you know, tracked by some malicious entity. But you know, just a fun story that you saw one right when you booked.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, it was crazy because they're native Wisconsin, but like you said, crows, very common. Ravens, not so much. So. So notable, in fact, that my wife called me over to the window to actually take a peek out of it. And I'm just like, you're not gonna believe this, but I just booked a show with a guy by the name of the raven. And to see that was just kind of a cute little synchronicity.

[Top Lobster]

Did she say why is a guy named.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's exactly the next question was.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Wait. I, I say all Kinds of crazy stuff and she doesn't even have time to digest it, so she just, she just moved on. She's like, oh cool. It's profound to me.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, that's how it goes with, with my wife. Every time I'm driving in the morning or something, I go, look at the way they're spraying. The sky is. It's like in a grid pattern.

[Top Lobster]

And she. Yep. My wife just goes. She pats me on the head. She goes, that's nice, honey, good job.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I go, no, you don't understand. But by the time it's noon, it's gonna spread out and it's gonna block the sun. And then noon comes around and I go, look, see? And she goes, uh huh.

[Top Lobster]

It's actually, this is how bad it's gotten. My wife just had a birthday, so happy birthday and thank you for this. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah. But one of her co workers got her a pair of socks that said this is my conspiracy socks or something like that. And I was like, you're not even really a conspiracy theory by injection, I suppose, but not like I was like, are you saying crazy stuff? And she's like, I don't think I am.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's like. So every once in a while a fan of this show will somehow like interact with my wife on social media and they'll want to say something conspiratorial to her and she'll go, I just

[Top Lobster]

don't, I don't know about these things.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And I go, you kind of do. All you gotta do is just repeat any number of the crazy shit that I've been saying for. You know, we've been married for a decade, but I've been doing this to her since she was 17. We were in high school. Just blap it her up with terrifying information. Just, I'm just, hey, just repeat it back. They just want reciprocation. It'll feel great. It doesn't matter what they say. Just say like they're poison in the water and they're going to go, yes, that's what I'm talking about. And it's going to be really nice. Going to be a nice interaction.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

It sounds like we need to get her on Top's mom Instagram feed.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Honestly, I don't know if anybody should be on Top's mom's Instagram feed.

[Top Lobster]

Equal parts terrified, equal parts trump hater.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

If you're not built the right way. It's just black pill after black pill after black pill. A lot of black pill.

[Top Lobster]

My mom's Different.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

So what are we getting into to today, Jeff?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

You know, I got a great little presentation for you guys. I'll pull it up real quick here.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Are you gonna share it? We can, we can share things to the screen.

[Top Lobster]

Yep.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Okay, let me know when, when you're up.

[Top Lobster]

There it is here. Here we go. Okay.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Okay. So the White lady of Champion is what I titled this. Interesting to that. So our story starts in a small Belgium community. Today it's called Champion, Wisconsin. This is 1859. It's in the wilds of Wisconsin. If you look at the map here, we got Green Bay as the closest city today. Now, at the time, Green Bay, it's a bustling community. It's quickly being settled by immigrants, specifically like the Belgians, the Dutch and the Germans. They're all making their way, you know, through Ellis island, up through the St. Lawrence river, down the big lakes of Michigan, superior to Green Bay. And they are looking to carve out an existence in the wilds of Wisconsin. And now by 1859, Wisconsin, it's only been a state for about 10 years. Settlers are still making their way in and they're looking for an opportunity to, to have their own land in their own communities in the Wild West. Now the story I'm going to tell you about today is it's centers around a small Belgian community, like I said, called Champion. Today it's only about 15 miles from Green Bay, but you know, today that's not very far. But in those days we're talking about wagon roads, we're talking about Indian trails, and even at the time it was very remote. So even if you drive there today to visit the shrine that I'm going to tell you about, it's all back roads, county roads, it's mostly farm fields and villages. So even today it's, it's, it's relatively unsettled and the middle of nowhere.

[Top Lobster]

Imagine the Dutch back then, it would have been mostly inaccessible during certain parts of the winter.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

Because it snows like crazy up there.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

It snows. And your only way to get from community communities by, you know, either by foot or by horse, maybe, maybe wagon, depending on the conditions of the road. But yeah, you're, you're really on your own. So the need for small, tight knit communities, mostly farming, agrarian lifestyle, is all that was available to but one keynote about these people, these Belgians that made their way to Wisconsin was they were primarily Catholic and devoutly Catholic at that. So we're talking early October 1859. The story centers around a young Belgian woman, her Name is Adele Bryce. And she's walking in a forest near her home, near her family's farm. Now, this is a route that she takes regularly, especially during harvest season. It's the route taken from her family's farm to the grist mill. It's October, like I said, harvest season. She's carrying a sack of wheat on her head to deliver to the gristmill to be turned into flour. So real hard scrabble, kind of salt of the earth existence that Adele living with her family, is carving out of the Wisconsin countryside. So she's walking her way to the gristmill and she looks up ahead and she spots a lady in dazzling white. And this lady is standing between a maple and a hemlock tree. And I'm not sure why in all the text it specifically says a maple and a hemlock tree, but it's very specific. So Adele freezes in her tracks and she's frightened by this unknown visitor along the path. Now, like we said, Adele lives in a small Belgian community. She knows everybody in the Charondic community. So a stranger, especially one not dressed in farm clothes or peasant clothes of the time would definitely be out of the ordering, out of the ordinary and a bit startling. So Adele, frozen, she watches as this lady slowly disappears and she leaves behind a cloud of white smoke. And that slowly dissipates. She's a bit startled, but she continues on her way to the mill, then eventually makes her way back home with seeing nothing more. So the Following Sunday, it's October 9, 1859. She is getting ready for mass and she gathers her sister and another neighbor lady to make an 11 mile hike from her farmstead to church. You know, when we go to church these days, you know, you hop in your car, you drive, you're there 5, 10 minutes, right? You know, she had 11 mile hike to make just from her farm to the Catholic congregation that she was a member of. And this is where she had her second encounter with the lady. This time she was accompanied by her sister Isabel and neighbor woman in that same grove of trees, between that maple and that hemlock tree, she sees the lady again. But the other two women, they cannot see her and they can tell that Adele is frightened. And again, the lady appears to her and then dissolves into a white cloud. Well, they make their way to mass and they have mass. And Adele sits with the priest, Father Verhof, for confession that day. And she says that, you know, I have something on my mind. I encountered this white lady. So Father Verhof, he says to not Fear that this is a heavenly messenger. Now he instructs Adele to ask God to ask this visitor if she encounters her again. In God's name, who it? Who are you and what do you desire? So as she's walking home that day, she goes by that same grove of trees and she encounters that lady once again. Now, this lady is clothed in dazzling white with a yellow sash around her waist. Her dress fell to her knees in graceful folds. She had a crown of stars around her head, and her long, golden, wavy hair fell loosely over her shoulders. And a heavenly light shone around her. Now, Adele remembered those words that she just received from Father Verhoff only hours earlier. And she exclaims, in God's name, who are you? And what do you want from me? She received a reply.

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Liberty. Liberty.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[Top Lobster]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Real life, real story, real you.

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Download TikTok and get started.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Now, David, I'm going to pull up this next slide, and I want you to be the one to read it. Are you ready?

[Liberty Mutual Ad Voice]

Can you read?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I don't know if I could read. I could do my best.

[Top Lobster]

Okay, we're gonna try.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

All right. Read it.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, what the fuck, man?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Read it, David.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

When the red star of Regulus. I'm sorry? When the red star and Regulus are on the horizon. Regulus or Regulus are on the horizon in front of the gaze of the Sphinx. Before daylight, a new knowledge will come to humanity.

[Top Lobster]

What year?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

1890.

[Top Lobster]

What? 1890.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Okay, David, I'm. I'm totally messing with you, man.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Damn it. That's a banger. Oh, my God.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

I had to get you with bled suit, man.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That was good. That was really good. Because I. Of course, the whole time you're saying white lady, that's where my mind's going. I'm waiting for any connection. I'm trying to count the stars on her head and all this other shit, you know, to see if there's any. Any connection or, you know, big dramatic correlation. And then all Of a sudden, I stepped in it. That was very good. Good job, Jeff.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

You're welcome. I. I had to tee that one up for you, Dave.

[Top Lobster]

He told me before, too. He said that the whole raven thing in his yard was bullshit. It was a yellow lobster walking across the floor.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

He's gonna go, this is all made up. By the end of it, he's gonna be like, I just fucking made all of this up. Oh, my.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Anyway, so the lady says, I am the Queen of Heaven who prays for the conversion of sinners, and I wish you to do the same. You received Holy Communion this morning, and that is well, but you must do more. Make a general confession and offer communion for the conversion of sinners. If they do not convert and do penance, my son will be obliged to punish them. Huh? And that was the first message that she received from the White Lady.

[Top Lobster]

I am the Queen of Heaven. Not far off. Yeah. I mean, she's describing herself as the Queen of Heaven. I believe that Bledsoe's lady also. I mean, she's got many names, but that's one of them.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, and we'll get into that, definitely. But none of the others in her party could see this White Lady. Now, they asked who she was, and Adele replied, the lady says she is the Queen of Heaven. The lady turned to look at her party and said, blessed are they that believe without seeing. She asked Adele, what are you doing here in idleness with your companion, or while your companions are working in the vineyard of my son? Weeping, Adele asked, what more can I do, dear lady? The lady replied, gather the children in this wild country and teach them what they should know for salvation. Adele replied, but how shall I teach them who know so little myself? Teach them the catechism, how to sign themselves with the sign of the cross and how to approach the sacraments. That is what I wish you to do. Go, and fear nothing. I will help you. The lady raised her hands as though giving Adele and her parting a party a blessing. And then she slowly vanished. Now, that was the third and final apparition that Adele witnessed. And it was on the same day as the second. So Adele, with this message, she ventured forward to give her testimony. Now, most, including her family, believed Adele sincerely, while others believed maybe she had a little psychological issue. Her father even built a log cabin or log Chapel about 10 by 12 near the place of the apparition. Now, Adele reflected on those words from the Queen of Heaven. What are you doing here in your idleness while your companions are working in the vineyard of my Son. Now, what was little known at the time was that before Adele moved from Belgium to Wisconsin, she had planned to enter the order and become unknown or sister. Now the name Champion. Champion, Wisconsin was the. A town in Belgium where they had a. I think a monastery or I'm not sure the exact word, but where she had planned to. To become a nun. But instead she rejected her vocation and she moved to Wisconsin. Now, after the apparition, she wasted no time. She took the lady's advice and said, what are you doing here in your idleness? And her father built that chapel immediately. And then they upgraded the chapel throughout the years and built a school. Now, in 1869, she opened a boarding school which housed the children from the wilds and gave them a profit, proper Catholic education. The school was upgraded in 1885, and it's the one that's seen on this slide here. So going from just a grove of trees to a very modest chapel to a larger chapel with a school was quite the accomplishment in an undertaking for a peasant girl from Belgium that knew little or nothing. Now here's where it gets kind of crazy.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I mean that, by the way, that does a lot to kind of, you know, it's like the idea that people wouldn't die for something that's not real, right?

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Painstakingly build something in 1890, something in the middle of, you know, a difficult, a difficult terrain in a time where these things aren't easily accessible as far as the, the labor and the materials to do such a thing. And also you're a peasant girl. Just layers of difficulty to pull off something like that.

[Top Lobster]

I don't think a peasant girl explains to her, her priest that this happens. He says, test the spirits. She comes back and he's like, yeah, they said to build something and then, then they do it.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

Kind of an odd story, right?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I don't think you're. You're moved to that degree by nothing,

[Top Lobster]

you know, so it seems it like

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

it'd be a pretty far way to go for something that was a hoax or something that was just a delusion. You know, you, you meet people that are delusional. They don't have a lot of drive, they don't have a lot of gumption, they don't get a lot of stuff done. For her to experience this encounter and then actually build something that still stands to this day is quite remarkable. So it's about 12 years to the day of the original apparition or the, the most profound apparition that she had. And it's October 8th. So it's one day short. Now if I had to ask you guys, if you could think of the most destructive fire in US history, what would you say?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Wasn't there like the fires of la? Well, I mean the, the last fires of LA or the ones before those were wild.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

I'm thinking historical.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

What the hell was the. There's, there's a giant one that Great Chicago Fires. There you go, the Chicago Fire. Right.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So there is one that was more destructive and more widespread. But the reason that the greatest forest fire in US history got little play is because it happened exactly the day before the great Chicago Fire. And that was, oh wow, the Peshtigo fire. And that happened October 8, 1871, one day short of that 12 year anniversary of the lady giving the message to Adele. Now, it was the most destructive forest fire. It claimed 1.2 million acres. It was also the deadliest wildfire in recorded history. It's said to have taken between 1500 and 2500 lives. Unfortunately, the census records weren't very extensive at the time and it's really hard to quantify because the flames were so hot and so widespread that it rendered almost everything it touched to ash. There was even stories about a fire NATO or like a cyclone of fire coming out of the Peshtigo fire that just scorched the land. And where, where does that story sit with our story? So if you look at a map of the devastation, I have one on the slide here, you'll see that Adele shrine was right in the middle of the path of devastation. So the area in black is the scope of the devastation. If you look at the, the tiny little green dot is the shrine which included the chapel and the schoolhouse. And it was like I said, right in the path of devastation. So many of the locals from the area, they fled to the chapel for refuge. Now Adele and her companions, they prayed for, for Mary's protection. Now they lifted a statue of Mary and proceeded around the grounds praying the rosary, singing hymns to Jesus and the Blessed Mother. And when that smoke cleared the next day, the sun rose. It was only the church and the school that were spared from the devastation.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Wow.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

The flames made their way to the fence line that surrounded the church, but the grounds chavel in school untouched. So they considered that to be a miracle. So there was a, a priest that was present in Peshtigo at the time and for some reason he had survived and he wrote a book about the devastation of Peshka fire. And that's where we get a lot of our. Our history from. So he wrote on this after hours of horror and suspense. The heaven sent relief in the form of a downpour. The fervent prayers to the mother of God were heard. Everything about them was destroyed. Miles of desolation everywhere but the convent school in Chamble on the holy land consecrated to the Virgin Mary shone like an emerald in the aisle in a sea of ashes. The fire had not entered the chapel grounds. Father Peter Pernin.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Wow, man, that's. I mean, as far as.

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Things that don't, you know, you're called to test the fruits of a spirit. And so far, despite my extreme skepticism, I can't look at anything that's been presented and go like that is inherently negative or inherently deceptive. So, you know, it's a fascinating story. It leaves me wondering, you know, if, if Mary can appear to people, is there something out there that is equally as tenacious in its efforts to appear as Mary?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a great question. And you know, obviously you guys produce a show called Straight Bible. And a lot of the basis for the. Our faith is in what the Bible actually says scripturally. But we'll, we'll get into that. You know, who the identity of this white lady actually was.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah. Before we go, I also just want to remind the audience as you're listening to this, you know, our only instances of being able to find references to the Queen of Heaven once again is, is in the book of Jeremiah. And it's, it seems to be negative. It seems to be an entity that biblical scholars widely regard as is Ishtar.

[Top Lobster]

Well, the story's not done yet.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No, no, I know. I'm just saying keep that in mind as you're listening, because that's what I'm thinking of. I'm just trying to let the audience know where my head is. Like even hearing the term queen of Heaven is Like, within the biblical context doesn't seem to be a great thing. So this is. This is fascinating.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

And I have a slide on that. And we'll unpack that and then also give you the Catholics refutation to that. So, although not widely publicized, the story of Adele's apparition spread far and wide. It prompted pilgrimages to the chapel and grounds, and even reenactments of that Peshtigo fire progression were done to commemorate the miracle that happened on that day where the chapel was spared. Now the apparition is recognized as Our lady of Good help. And in 2010, the Bishop of the Diocese of Green Bay, after two years of review with Marian apparition experts, he put together a panel of three apparition experts. They issued a decree on the matter. He approved. I declare with moral certainty and in accordance with the norms of the Church that the event. The events, apparitions and locutions given to Adele Bryce in October of 1859 do exhibit the substance of supernatural character. And I do hereby approve these apparitions as worthy of belief, although not obligatory by the Christian faithful. Now, this decree is the only recognized Marian apparition site in the United States, and it's right there in Wisconsin.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

So what he's saying there is like something definitively happened. You're not obligated to believe in this thing, but I'm telling you that as far as I can see, it did happen. And I guess the reason you add this caveat of you're not obliged to believe in this thing is because it's not a salvation issue. I'm just telling you something happened here.

[Top Lobster]

Did. Did the people around think that the wildfire and the people that perished because of it was because of the apparition and the warning that was given to Adele?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

You know what? I have never made that connection. Top. That's extremely insightful, and I have never heard anybody say that yet. Maybe, was it Jesus coming to punish the. The disbelievers and that why they're spared? I don't know, but that's. That's an interesting point you make there.

[Top Lobster]

It's an interesting overlap, too. Like, Jesus is going to come back not with water, but with fire. And then, you know, you have this small, localized event that happened. I'm. I just wonder if they put that together and kind of started to deify this even more, you know?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, that's. That's crazy. I will look deeper. That is a great thread to pull on, but that's extremely insightful.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Good job, man.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, good Job. So I just kind of wanted to kind of compare and contrast that. Probably the three most famous are Guadalupe Lords and Fatima. And just kind of how Mary came, delivered the message and the. Just kind of the nature of those. But I'll move past that slide. But so how do we square, like you said, David, the Queen of Heaven, with our Christian faith? Now, the Queen of Heaven is referenced in the book of Jeremiah, as you said, specifically referring to making offers to a female deity. Now, not much context is given within the passages, but biblical scholars, of which I am not one, I'm not a theologian, believe the title would be either Anana for the Mesopotamian God Anat, also Mesopotamian Isis, Egypt. I believe Jeremiah was written while in Egypt. Ishtar, Ashtaroth, which was the wife of baal, or Asherah, who is the wife of El. And now in the passages, it talks about them pouring out drinks or making offerings to this, this goddess figure, this Queen of Heaven. Now, where the Catholics come down on this is they say since Jeremiah was the Old Testament, occurred about 600 B.C. it predated Mary's life by six centuries. They cannot be referring to Mary. And they agree that this was likely a pagan deity that they're calling the Queen of Heaven in Jeremiah. They. But they think that the connection to the Queen of Heaven, which they venerate as Mary, is been taken out of context by that scripture. Now, the fact that these pagan groups believed in other supreme deities as kings of heaven in their pantheon, it opens the door to a queen of heaven in that same pantheon. So if it's a pagan pantheon that they're worshiping, obviously there would be a king of heaven and a queen of Heaven, and not necessarily the same as what the Catholics consider to be the Catholic Queen of Heaven, which would be the mother, Mary. So when we put it into a Christian, or more specifically Catholic context with a goddess king, the King of Heaven, this would make Mary the queen. So that's, that's the Catholic defense on that.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's not too unreasonable. I mean, when you look at these things, there's a constant attempt to invert and create a counterfeit version of, you know, the Immaculate Conception, a counterfeit version of Jesus, and obviously a counterfeit version version of God when these different entities claim to be, you know, the highest God. And so the idea that there wouldn't be a counterfeit Queen of Heaven if there was a real one isn't lost on me.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, absolutely. So to add a little more context here, we have to learn, turn to the New testament, specifically Revelation 12. Now, the child in this, in this passage is interpreted as Jesus waltz assumed that this woman clothed with a son is the earthly mother, the queen now in heaven. So Revelation 12 reads, A great sign appeared in heaven. A woman clothed with the sun, with moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars. You were counting the stars that day. She was pregnant and cried out in pain. As she was about to give birth, she gave birth to a son, a male child who will rule all nations with an iron scepter. So that kind of goes back to that imagery about Jesus punishing the disbelievers, right? And then it says, and her child was snatched up to God and, and to his throne. The woman. Now see, this is the, the part that we need Mr. Mayberry's interpretation on is Revelations 12:6, where the woman fled into the wilderness to place. To a place prepared for her by God where she might be taken care of for 12, 60 days. Do you guys remember him touching on that specific.

[Top Lobster]

I think this is. Some people, some people think that that is going to be during the, during the Tribulation. I guess it depends on where you. You fall. If it's like if there is a rapture and there's a mid trip, but they're talking about Israel going into the wilderness, I think specifically into some sort of mountains to escape the persecution. So the remnant will get away for that amount of time and God will keep them until, you know, the final return.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's also fascinating that it's final six and it's 1260 days.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, man. The Bible's crazy, dude.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. And I've never noticed that Liberty Mutual

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So you know, the belief that the Virgin Mary was taken body and soul into heaven at the end of an earthly life is a unique case in Christian theology. Theology, because it's not explicitly narrated in the Bible. There's no Scripture to support this. Now, unlike the ascension of Jesus Christ, there's no chapter or verse that describes the events of Mary's eventual death taking place. Now, Jesus narrative of being taken into heaven is called the Ascension. Now and Catholicism, the phenomenon of Mary is called the Assumption. Now where the Assumption difference is that Mary lived out her life on earth, died in her body, and then her body was assumed into heaven. Now, the belief is again, not supported by Scripture, It's a remnant of early church tradition. So that's where the Catholics get their mooring from as far as the divinity of Mary. Now their logics derive from Luke 1:28, where Mary was hailed full of grace. Now, her preservation and purity from the wages of sin, which corrupt the body in death, weren't present because she is full of grace. She is sinless. Therefore her body was preserved and taken into heaven rather than decaying here on earth. And even in some Catholic saints where they talk about, have you guys heard about the uncorrupted bodies of the saints?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Where these saintly, these saintly people, they die, but instead of undergoing the normal decay and death processes, their bodies are preserved as if they're alive. And they call them the uncorrupted saints. And that is one of the signs that the Catholics point to when they're saying somebody was saintly is saying that their, their body was uncorrupted after their death. Now, the Eastern Orthodox tradition of dormition talks of Mary falling asleep. They're traced to the 4th and 5th century writings. Now the Catholics, they also remain purposely vague on whether Mary died. The Eastern Orthodox have settled on the dormition that Mary died a worldly death, was buried by the apostle apostles. Now, I'm not Eastern Orthodox, so this was news to me when I dug it up. And three days later, her tomb was empty. Unlike Christ's crucifixion where he arose the third day Mary was taken into heaven, body in flesh, from that tomb. So that's.

[Top Lobster]

Do all Eastern Orthodox believe this?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

That's a good question. I, I'm not ingratiated in any Eastern Orthodox orthobro circles, so I'm not really sure who to, to ask that question to. But that's from, from my cursory understanding as that was. But if somebody has a different interpretation on that or a different tradition, I'd love to hear that. So that's really the summation of the miracle at Champion and the genesis of Mary. Now you can visit the shrine today. I actually got a chance to last summer on our way back from a road Trip, I took her detour. I had no idea that it was so close to the route. And it's a well preserved chapel there. They have a beautiful grounds there. They welcome visitors. I believe there was. There was some kind of service in session, so I didn't really get to explore too much. I had the wife and the kids in the car, so I couldn't spend too much time there. But I was able to grab a couple pamphlets and just be like, I got to look into this deeper. And I'm glad I was able to put this together for you guys, man.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's interesting because just in the story that you've told us, I don't, you know, it's news to me, but what's been presented here, I don't see any, any holes or anything that would raise alarm, which is tricky because as this show has progressed, this idea of the lady has become a bit of a talking point or a sticking point. And usually when I hear of this thing, you know, in the, in the case of the Bledsows, which, you know, we briefly talked about before presenting yourself and identifying yourself as Ishtar and Isis and all these other things, that's a pretty safe, you know, you're in good standing if you're skeptical of that entity, I think. And then to go a step further and say that when this star alignment happens, this knowledge is going to, you know, be exposed to humanity, we're going to wake up to this new knowledge, all of that sounds like Gnostic New Age. The story that you've told doesn't have any of those earmarks. It doesn't feel. It doesn't feel the same. And, you know, the, the Fatima story is a fascinating one because within that there are descriptives of this entity appearing initially as like a silver disc. I believe if you look into it, and that's something that recently I dramatically undershot the amount of people who had witnessed this thing because it said that it would return. And since it would return, people were able to know the day and come and anticipate it. And it did in fact return. And what I thought was 7,000 people was actually 70,000 people witnessing this event. And I tell you the truth, I don't really remember what this thing said as far as knowledge that was imparted. But even hearing this, this, this idea of like, it appearing as a silver disc, like that all gives me pause. And I'm not saying that there isn't maybe some argument to be made that some of these, you see them in religious paintings, you know, UFOs what you would describe as a UFO.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Insinuating that they, they've accompanied these religious events or sightings. But it's all very, very muddy. And I understand the, what would you call it? Impersonating God, impersonating Mother Mary, impersonating Jesus. We hear that quite a bit. I've heard horrifying stories of people interacting with entities that were impersonating Jesus. And so, and then if you look back at all these pagan pantheons, there is usually some sort of, you know, mother, father, son story that seems to be an, you know, an inversion or a counterfeit. So maybe when we're looking at this, whatever it is, the Lady Isis, Ishtar, maybe that is a direct counterfeit. Maybe these things are separate. Maybe the story that you've told here is separate. That's just where my head's at.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

And yeah, I'm glad I gave you guys something to, to think on here. And you know, this is definitely something to roll around with your other guests like, like Ed. I know his, his anti Catholic stance will actually come in really handy for this, for this specific topic. Now, you know, full disclosure, I was raised Catholic and I say I gave it up for Lent. So I identify as a Christian first and foremost. And then, you know, I just try to be, you know, scripturally sound as possible, but when something like this comes up, I always try to, to square it. And over the weekend I was talking, my brother in law is actually a Lutheran minister and I asked him about this because they don't do the Mary veneration in the Lutheran Church that was kind of a schismatic peace where the Lutherans kind of broke off and they're like, Jesus is supreme. Where the Catholics ardent, ardent Mary veneration. And I asked him, I said, what do you make of this? And you know, he, he said he'd have to really think on it. And my mom, who was raised Catholic, raised me Catholic, you know, she, she said, well, you hear about all these Marian apparitions and they always point to Jesus and they say, you know, honor my son or, you know, do this. So it's like, where does that square? And I see one of your commenters put in, you know, nine truths to tell a lie. And I know that's kind of a motto of the, the NDS universe. Yes. So where, where is the lie? And I know, I can see David's gear spinning there trying to figure out, okay, where, where's the deception here? If you know this, this is Mother Mary.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You know, I think there's this. There's safety in focusing on Christ. And I think that, you know, to be a mortal, fleshy that's on the earth for 80 to 90 years and to try to understand the complexities and the deceptions of the spiritual realm, it's a lofty endeavor. And I think that.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

And it can lead you astray, it can lead to a straight.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And I think that your safest bet is knowing God, understanding God to the best of your abilities. Because when something tries to counterfeit God, you're going to be in safe standing if you know the real thing. Right? Like I think it was Walden, Jamie Walden was talking about people that understand money really well and they don't study the counterfeit, they study the real money. So that when the counterfeit comes along, it doesn't matter how many times you try to counterfeit it, whatever different methodology you try, you're so familiar with the real thing, you're not going to fall for it. So in that way, focusing on, on Jesus Christ and, and putting all your efforts there is going to make it so that you can't be deceived. So maybe that is why Liberty Mutual

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

trip starts with peace of mind. I don't know, it just seems like there's not a tremendous amount of focus. I mean, you're talking about within Catholicism and Christian orthodoxy that there is some focus on Mary. And I know Protestants, non denominator, whatever it is, they get made fun of because it's like there is this absence of deep knowledge of the history of things and the tradition of things. But I see that even within Catholicism you have. We talk about it all the time. Hoodoo or voodoo or Santeria that is masking itself as the saints. They're hiding their gods behind the visage of the Catholic saints. And so in some way, if you strip all of the other apparatus away and you live a life where you're focusing on you know, going forth and sinning no more. A life of repentance and of following Christ and focusing solely on Jesus Christ. I can see that. You know, in some ways we call it grandma maxing on the show, and that's usually within the supernatural context of not being deceived by aliens. But in the same way, if you're just only focusing on Christ, you're not going to fall for this other thing that's counterfeiting itself as Mary. In fact, I don't think that, you know, let's say, hypothetically, Mother Mary is truly the Queen of Heaven. I don't think she's going to be bummed out when you're like, sorry, I'm focusing on Jesus. Like, I don't know what's going on with you, lady, because, you know, the waters are so muddied. If everything is going to be counterfeited at some point, it almost makes sense to take a little bit more of a reductive and narrow view, you know, calling Christianity the narrow path. Jesus Christ is the way to the Father. I think you probably would be, because it gets crazy. You step outside of it and you start to lean on your own understanding of things. But maybe there is a Queen of Heaven.

[Top Lobster]

I'd say probably not. The way I see it is this is a. It's a great story. And if. If legitimate, if true, I mean, you can see the, the pathways to which.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Why.

[Top Lobster]

To which. Why an entity would want to do this and, and maybe even have benevolent qualities to it and tell you the truth, or at least do you know, these things that are the truth? Because in the end, what do. What does this lead to? Like, what have we gotten here besides, you know, we saved the chapel from a huge fire, which is like, how. How did that start? But that's a question that we can never know. In the end, what we have here is veracity to the, to the deification of Mary.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's an interesting point.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, that this is. This is what we're all pointing back at. What, what the Catholic Church is pointing back at. And I just don't. I'm not Catholic, so I don't. I don't subscribe to that at all. Mary was a human woman who God used for a purpose. And I think she was great by David. I. Yeah, I think she was great, but in the end, she was a human being that was a vessel that was for. For God's choosing.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

For what?

[Top Lobster]

For what he needed. I don't know where we get. She's the Queen of Heaven. I Don't know where we get deification. I don't know where we get. She has a sanctified body. She never died, like she's Elijah or Moses. It's just, it's sort of strange. And then when, you know, when you look at the other deceptions about Mary that go hand in hand, I'm kind of like, yeah, this stuff goes off the rails real quick. And this one here just kind of. It just solidified people's belief in it so that I'm looking at it as a little bit of an op. Like it doesn't always have to be on its face evil or do a

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

bad thing, take people off the, off the path. Even, even, even though he. She pointed to, to Jesus as, as the redeemer.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, yeah, listen, we have, we got guys, guys that we've interviewed and I still talk to. I like him, but he's talking to certain entities that tell him to go to church. They told him to get baptized, they told him to do these things. And he's, he's in shape and all this stuff. He's experiencing paranormal activity every single day, you know, and his life is better, but he also has this other side that like he's. So he's allowed in an entity and there are good things happening to him, but there are also other things that are unexplainable happening to him. And I'm like, hey, I think these two are related. They're playing a little, you know, right hand path, left hand path with you. And you think that they're different, but I don't think so. I think you invited in one thing and now the floodgates are open. And when I look, I know it's not a good, it's not a good way to look at the supernatural either because it could make me like take a stick and hit everything. You know, if an angel came and I'd be like, get out of here. Like, I don't know. But that's where I'm at with the spirit realm. Like any, anything that comes from the spirit realm, I'm super suspicious because more than likely it's going to be a deception. You know, very rarely do you have like a actual mess. How many, how many Elijah's were there to prophets of Baal? Right. One one Elijah and then 400 prophets of Baal. And it's probably way more exaggerated than that at this point.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So.

[Top Lobster]

But yeah, I don't know. I'm just, I'm super skeptical of, of that heard.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So one other just kind of supernatural testimony just to give you guys as a bonus. So, like I said, my mom devout Catholic. And, you know, one thing that I really had a problem with the Catholic church is they don't really teach the scripture. You know, they go through, like, one passage, and then the priest unpacks it, you know, during his homily or sermon. You know, that's every church dog, 15 or 20 minutes. And. And there's not. There's not a real focus on the actual gospel of the. Of the Lord. And that's kind of where I kind of butted heads with my mom. I'm like, we're not even really talking about the Bible or the word. We're. We're going through traditions of the Catholic. And, you know, maybe that works for some people.

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

But have you guys ever heard of a novena?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

A noveno?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

A novena. Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

No, I've never heard of that.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So it is a specific prayer that you say to a saint. So when my mom. I have a. A sister that's about two years older than me, and when my mom was having a hard time conceiving, she had heard about this novena to St. Therese, and it's called Novena of the Rose. And she had found a prayer card, and she prayed it, and I believe you're supposed to pray it for something like seven days, and then on that seventh day, after you're done, someone will bring you a rose. So she went through, and she. She didn't have a lot of faith in this, surprisingly, but she went through and she did the due diligence. She prayed. She prayed the prayer of St. Therese. And she's like, well, roses are out of. Out of season. You know, I don't think my husband, my. My dad is going to bring me a rose. So she was kind of, like, beside herself. Like, you know, I really, really want to be a mother. And she said a prayer, and then she was visiting with one of the neighbor ladies at the time. She said, wait, Debbie, I have something for you. Just wait right there. And she walked to her house, and she brought out one last rose. And she said, this was the last rose on the bush. And when I trimmed it, I thought of you and gave my mom this rose. And shortly thereafter, she got pregnant with my sister. So it was kind of a profound testimony for her. She loves telling that story. So I was just thought that was. You know, we talk about the veneration of the saints, but, like, who did she actually pray to?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

You know, my sister. She's a lovely woman, mother of four, happily married. She's married to a Lutheran minister, not Catholic, no longer Catholic. So it's like, what. What was the mechanism behind that? Why did she receive a rose? It's one thing to, like, pray something and then something happens, and then you can just be like, okay. But to have that symbol of the rose coming to her when it's so out of the ordinary. When. When have you guys. Well, obviously, dudes probably don't get roses, but, you know, just any random girl, just get a random rose from. From somebody that's not really a best friend, somebody with no knowledge of what you're doing to give that to you. It's.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's interesting. I was just looking up here, like, you know, you have this Hail Mary prayer, and it's an interesting thing because this is obviously prevalent in Catholicism. But if you go through the Bible, how we're directed to pray, you know, you pray to God the Father, in the name of Jesus, empowered by the Holy Spirit. These are these. These three things never. And just. I'm thinking about the popularity of the Hail Mary prayer, even if you aren't a religious person. Like, I was aware of it throughout my childhood. And. But there's nowhere in the Bible that we're instructed to pray to or for Mother Mary. And if you look at the Mother Mary prayer, it says, you know, hail, Hail Mary, full of grace, all these things. And then it goes on to say, hail Mary, Mother of God, pray for our. Pray for us sinners, which is just,

[Top Lobster]

you know, like, I said an interesting name. And especially what it's correlated to like, you know, a football player Hail Mary would be, yeah, you're running out of time. This is your absolute last shot. But there's like a lot of risk to this as well.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

There's like a space movie right now out about an alien project Hail Mary, Project Hail Mary and it's all about an alien.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, in the football play it's like, not only is it dangerous because you're throwing a football way into the air into the end zone and you have pretty much all the defenders around you. So like it's ripe for interception. So you could get, you know, they could actually score a touchdown.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's like a last ditch effort.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, it's a last ditch effort, but it also puts your players at risk. It's like as a coach or as like in baseball there are plays like this as well. I wouldn't necessarily do like, I wouldn't have my guy steal home from third base because that is a very dangerous play if there's a mix up in the signs. But it's, it's one of those things that you do when you're completely desperate.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You're going to lose anyway.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, but somebody fucks up, your guy could catch a baseball bat to the teeth or like a number of things can happen there. So like you're putting people at extreme risk and maybe it'll work. It's a Hail Mary, but like the odds are super low.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And it's like, it's just interesting, man, because once again like you know, praying to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, empowered by the Holy Spirit and that prayer, the only mention of, of Jesus or God isn't praying. You're not even praying to, to Mary in the name of Jesus. There's a reference of the fruit of the womb of Mary, which is Jesus, and there's a reference to God, but it's specifically Mary being the mother of God. But, but everything that we've learned is like, this is the way. When Jesus Christ says the, the only way to the Father is through the Son. Nobody comes to the Father but through the Son, Right? So in my mind I'm going, okay, I'm praying to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. All of that is absent in this prayer that is like super popular, super popular, super well known. There's like a, a Western cultural significance to a degree. I mean, I know it, it, it, it exceeds the west.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Main part of the rosary is the Hail Marys. Yeah, our fathers.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Really Interesting. I just don't see that as being the main modality that we're instructed. You know, even like, you know, baptisms.

[Top Lobster]

I wouldn't even go to a church with a female pastor. I'm just.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

I fucking pray too. I'm not praying to Mary. Maybe I'm going to hell, but I don't know.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I don't know if I don't think it's a going to hell thing, because I don't think Mary, if I'm wrong.

[Top Lobster]

Okay, fine.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, I don't think even if you were wrong, it's like Mary's never going to be upset that you were, like, focusing on the sun. You know what I mean? Like, nobody's going to be upset about that. I don't think the spiritual realm is like, this guy's just not getting it. He's focusing on the sun. You know what I mean? Like, it seems like that is the point, but it's just interesting.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, definitely.

[Top Lobster]

It's a fascinating story, too, that it does take place in. In America. Like, that's like one of the. Because I don't know, people. People forget how. How crazy America is, how esoteric it is. I mean, Joseph Smith, Meth Smith, met that. The Angel Moroni here in America. There's a lot of crazy thing hap. That that happened here.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You said this fire happened the day before the Chicago fires is the day.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, it was the day before. Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And the Chicago fires are super suspicious. Like, there's all kinds of conspiracies about them.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So there's one fringe conspiracy that I really like, and it's called Biella's Comet. And it was a comet that they believe may have slagged off and created firestorms. And because there was that specific fire in Peshtigo, there was another one just across Lake Michigan in Northern Michigan, as well as the Great Chicago Fire. All within like 48 hours. Like, most devastating. So some people think this was like an atmospheric anomaly that brought that. I think it's a B, I, E, L, A apostrophe S. That's interesting. Yeah, so that's. That's kind of one of those fringe ones. I've heard Randall Carlson bring that one up and like, okay, I gotta look into this deeper. And there was even stories there was lore of a fire demon being spotted in the Peshtigo fire and that he. He went around starting fire. So it's a. Is this just a personification of the fire or was there something demonic involved that brought great Casualty and loss of pretty much everything around that. That little finger of Wisconsin.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. And it's. It also still doesn't adequately explain why that cathedral is untouched.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I mean, that is wild. I mean, that's what I'm saying. I don't doubt that something supernatural happened there.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And I think it is interesting because it's like, if you're looking at it, you're testing the fruits of this thing. What are we left with in. In the way of fruits? Well, this thing was protected, so that's interesting. But it is also interesting what you drew attention to top, which is it further deifies Mary. Yeah, like, that's one of the fruits, one of the major fruits that are left behind from this thing. And if they're. If the deification is justified, then that's what it is. But if the deification is not justified, then that's also like. Well, that's interesting then that you're left with that. So, man, it's.

[Top Lobster]

It all depends on where you're coming from. For me, I think it's unjustified, but obviously for the, for the Catholics who already hold this presupposition.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Vindication.

[Top Lobster]

Vindication. So it only furthers their belief. So it's like, yeah, that. You don't need a, you don't need another OP on top of this. Like, that's. If, if it is an op, that's the op.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, I guess then, you know, if you were to explore that a little bit further, it's like, well, what is the. The upside? The upside is it. It almost doesn't exist because at the end of the day, it's still the same thing. Pick up your cross, follow Jesus Christ. Jesus.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Enter through the narrow gate.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, so it's this, like nothing has. Has changed there. And it's still almost, in some ways is a stumbling block and a distraction.

[Top Lobster]

It was like I say about, like with sin in general and.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

I don't think God is as. I don't think God is as strict with us. I. Well, obviously we have. We're able to forgive for. Ask for forgiveness for our sins, but God also probably understands that we are going to miss, like our aim is not going to be perfect. But yeah, if you're off by just a little bit, that's really. That's. That's going to be sin and then extrapolate that years down the line further and further on and you'll be. You'll be off the target by a mile. But, Jeff, I kind of wanted to. Great story, love that, but thank you, you're also a paranormal researcher, like a cryptid researcher in Wisconsin. Can, can you tell us a little bit about what's going on there? What have you seen? What have you studied? Have you seen anything irl? What's, what's your story?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

I'm always on the lookout, but, you know, I would look at myself more as like a folklorist collecting all of this, you know, hidden history or strange stuff from Wisconsin. And, you know, just digging. I've been doing this probably, you know, just in my head for the last 20 years, but officially with Badgerland Legends for about six now. And I know we, we. One of the themes is top lobsters. Dogman. I love that one. But the Dogman mythos may have started in Wisconsin. Huh? So there was a lady in 1993 named Linda Godfrey. She lived in southeastern Wisconsin, and she heard about all of these upright dog sightings, and she wasn't really. She wasn't sure what to make of them. So she went to a. An animal control officer in Walworth County. Small county, pretty rural, a lot of farm fields. And she knocked on his door and said, hey, do you know anything about these, these upright walking canines that people are seeing? And he pulled out a manila folder, and on that manila folder was werewolf. So he had known about these things. And she started doing some research. And one of the interesting of the most interesting stories that she shared in her book, the Beast of Bray Road. So Bray Road being the road that these entities or entity was seen on was Bray Road. So they called it the Beast of Bray Road. And it's great alliteration, great marketing, and there's been films, there's been a documentary by small town Monsters, and then obviously Linda Godfrey's book. But one of the stories that she shares in there is from the 1930s. It is at a Catholic convent in Jefferson, Wisconsin. So it's not terribly far from the epicenter of the Brayer Road phenomenon today. And it tells of a night's watchman at this Catholic convent, a guy by the name of Shagelman. Now he's policing the grounds, and there are Indian mounds. Now, Wisconsin is the epicenter of effigy mound culture for the Indians. So we being where I am in central Wisconsin, in Madison specifically, there are tons of mounds everywhere. So having this mound on this property, specifically a burial mound, it's not. It's not a huge surprise. But he's patrolling the grounds one night when he sees something. He gets closer and he sees that there is this figure on top of one of These Indian mounds. And it's scratching at the top of the mount, almost like it's trying to get in to the mound. So he approaches it and it skitters off. Now if you see something like that in the middle of the night on a Catholic convent, you got to be. I don't scare the out of me. But he heads back that same night armed with nothing more than a heavy flashlight.

[Top Lobster]

I was gonna say you gotta be armed if you're going to approach this thing.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So he sees it again and he walks up to it and instead of slinking off, it rares up at him and looks him straight in the eyes. And then it utters something low and mean. Now, it said Gadara is how it was interpreted. And the only thing that Shackleman was to do was to pray to God to save him. And he said a prayer in his head and the thing slinked off. Now, not sure if the name of Jesus was uttered, because we know about that defense of the dark arts with Jesus's name, but specifically he prayed for God to save him. And then it backed down and slunk off, never to be seen again. So some people think that was the first sighting of the Wisconsin werewolf or the Wisconsin dogman. Now the interesting thing that Linda, I believe she was Christian.

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[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

She made in the book was Gadara. Sounds a lot like Gadara, which is the scene of the Gadaren demoniac outlined in the Bible where Jesus cast the legion into the swines that drowned themselves in the sea. So was that a link to that biblical story? That was one of the threads that she kind of proposed. I'm not sure if it was just a guttural sound or if it actually said Ghidara, but that is something to chew on. And being on a Catholic convent in Indian mounds, in burial mounds, Right. We have a dog like creature that's a guardian of the underworld in Egyptian mythology known as the Anubis or the Anubis. And that is a jackal headed entity, I believe.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

That is guards the passage to the underworld. So was this thing trying to go back for whence it came? I don't know, but it is a compelling story.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

That's interesting because I wonder if they're like, I've heard enough stories about these things and let's say there is like a function or a purpose to them, right? Like they do have this guarding the underworld kind of a situation. And I've heard a couple of stories of them being near, like graveyards and things like that. But so much of what I hear makes me suspect that maybe at some point one was killed, because I do think you could kill them. And it seems like almost like the military got their hands on them and like reverse engineered them. Because the other place that they seem to show up quite a bit is military bases. If you can genetically, for lack of a better term, reverse engineer one of these things and you create one, you know, that's some sort of lab created dogman, which I know sounds crazy, but I've heard so much about these things that it almost seems feasible. If you could, would you get rid of its nature? In other words, if you created a thing in a lab, but that thing had a purpose, and in nature it did exist, and its purpose was related to, you know, the underworld, the dead, and you created it in a lab, would you then effectively have created a thing that's just lost? Like, you release this thing out into the world and it's just trying to figure out, how do I go about my job? Maybe, maybe a better way to frame that is if you create in a lab, entirely isolated a beagle or a bloodhound. I don't think you eliminate its desire to track and hunt. It's a good. Like a beagle or bloodhound is a dog that's selectively bred. It's a feature, good hunting partner. And it's got this thing that it inherently wants to do. It's actually even more fascinating when you. When you frame it that way, because we're dealing with something that seems to be part caned. And so does it have this instinctual drive? And does that drive have something to do with the underworld? You know, I've heard a lot of these stories too, where these things will be in and around cave entrances, you know, that lead to like these tunnel systems. And I've listened to shamans actually talk about shamans that have been. What would be a good way to put it? Like reformed. Reformed shamans who realized the thing that they were practicing was a negative spiritual practice and they came to Christ. But I've Heard them talk about how when they, they practice skin walking. Now, skin walking is a thing that apparently has layers to it. It can happen in a way where an individual will perceive what they think is an animal, but there's some sort of an illusion and it's actually a man, but it's perceived as an animal. And there's other versions where people are in their homes doing rituals and almost remote controlling in animals somewhere out in the world. Now in those stories, I've heard them say, yeah, we access the underworld. The way that we access the underworld is there is a physical tunnel or cave in reality. And I think this is kind of seen in that, in that show Dark, where you go into a physical cave, but something spiritual happens in the cave. So these things, these dog men are often in and around these cave systems. Maybe just like a bloodhound has a natural inclination to, to track and hunt, maybe this thing has a natural inclination, was built for this purpose. And when they're building them in these labs, maybe some of them get out and they're just lost, you know. So you come across a thing that's, that's uttering a world, a word for like the underworld, effectively. Right. That's what ghidorah more or less is. And maybe, maybe it's trying to figure that out. Maybe it's like a bloodhound made in a lab that when it gets out, it's still trying to figure out like I'm supposed to be tracking and hunting and this thing's like I'm supposed to be guiding or, or guarding or.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, yeah, Wild. So the, apparently the beast railroad is still active today. There's a gentleman that lives on the property now. He, often in the fall he'll do like guided hay rides and show around his field. But he had set up the, the IR trap cams, the, the game cameras, trail cameras, and he got some very bizarre results on those. So what he would often do is when he found a, a roadkill carcass of a deer, he would drag it onto his property and put a trail cam over it. And you would see his numbered pictures in progression with the deer carcass in front of the camera. The next shot is like a cloud of smoke and then the shot after that, all in numbered sequence in this guy, Lee Hampel. He's not, he's, he's, he's an older gentleman. He's not as technologically advanced as this. And this was years before AI so you would see the next shot and the carcass is gone. So something was taking these carcasses. And then one of the most intriguing pictures that he showed me was just something like tracks through a field. And you'd see like two tracks through a snow covered field and then nothing. Like something sucked whatever was making those tracks up into oblivion. And he also caught a photo of an orb over his property and it almost looks like the outline of a wolf inside the orb. So this guy's got something crazy going on on this property on, just off of Bray Road. It's Bowers Road today. But I'm not sure what to make of it. I know other people I've talked to think that it, they feel it's very ancient, like maybe some of the indigenous tribes. Like you said, David, about the, the, the shape, the skin walkers.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right, yeah.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So it's, it's definitely intriguing. There's so much media made on it. I would, if somebody's interested in that, the small town monsters show Beast of Bray Road. Take a look on that. It was for free on Prime. It really gives a good background on the phenomenon and who Linda was and just the genesis of these sightings and what we think of them today.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's a weird phenomenon because just like Bigfoot, it starts to, the more you look at it, the less physical and the more sort of like metaphysical it becomes. You know, you have stories of people. I think there's a famous one from the confessionals where a guy sees it in his dreams. He has this dream of this dogman attacking his family and, and he intercedes and you know, gets scratched. In the morning he wakes up and he's got markings on his body. And as if that's not strange enough, after that, I don't know if it's a few weeks, few months, whatever, he's in the woods with his son, they're hunting or something like that, but they see this thing. So this guy is forced to deal with the idea that a thing he saw in his dreams somehow later on he sees in his real life. And then you have this weird symbiotic relationship. I know this is, this might be a little bit new to some of the listeners because we don't often get an opportunity to talk about Cryptids, but this is something that I'm fascinated with and, and this is mostly what I absorb actually is this sort of content. So I'm very familiar with these stories and you know, you have to kind of take them at, at face value in the sense that they're their stories. It's not confirmable. There's not a tremendous amount of evidence left behind after these encounters. But people will see them in what is described as almost working in tandem with Bigfoot. To the extent that. I know that sounds wild.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

I know I've heard you say this before and you said it's like, almost like Bigfoot's attack dog. And funny thing is that where railroad is, it's by a section of designated wilderness called the Kettle Moraine State Forest. And there are other people in that region that specifically track Bigfoot and have had encounters with a Bigfoot like creature right along the same roaming range as the Wisconsin dog man. So there might be a tie in there.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, there's, there's a lot of correlation between those two creatures, entities, I don't know what you would call them. And I've even heard consistencies in the way that they're described. Right. Because that's all you have is you have like patterns that emerge from one person's story to another person's story and you try to see if there's any overlap and eventually there's themes and patterns that are derived. And one of them is that Bigfoot has this intelligence about it and it is scary, it's sentient. Like the, the feeling associated with Bigfoot is typically pretty consistent and so is the one with Dogman, but with Dogman it's evil, it's demonic, like the feeling that people get. And there's even obviously, like we said, if they work in tandem, then there's people that have experienced both. And in those stories they'll delineate, they'll go, Bigfoot feels one way and it is intimidating, it is scary, but it is also intelligent. And it doesn't feel like Dogman, Dogman feels demonic and evil and just wants to kill.

[Top Lobster]

Like an instinctual is what they.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, yeah. And then there seems to be some level of Bigfoot, you know, kind of calling it back. Not yet. Can't do a thing yet. Can't. Can't kill a man yet. And that's also the thing that they say is overwhelmingly you feel like these things could dismember you with ease. But both of them, when I said before that they seem to go into the metaphysical, they seem to manifest sometimes out of nothing, disappear into nothing. They're often accompanied, accompanied by orbs, strange lights in the sky. What people have described as, as UFOs. So where previously people used to speculate, is Bigfoot, you know, Gigantopithecus, some missing, you know, branch of humanity that went into a strange direction, or is it, you know, the missing link Used to be the terminology associated with it. All of Bigfoot research went to this really weird place where a lot of people didn't follow. A lot of people just dropped off because it went.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

The Quantum Bigfoot is what they call it now. So there's a really good book out there by two of my favorite people in the field. It's called where the Footprints End by Timothy Renner and Joshua Cutchen. And both of those guys kind of go that route and they say, well, where the footprint prince ends, it's like, okay, at the end of those footprints, there's no Bigfoot. Where did it go? And they. And one thing that Tim Renner really dives into is a lot of these historical accounts. He calls it Weird Washed, where people will report the. The actual Bigfoot. But if you look deeper into their testimony, you know, the. Obviously the Bigfoot encounter gets transmitted, but what gets washed off of it is maybe they had poltergeist activity.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Maybe they saw lights in the sky or in the woods after that. And that's not documented because that's a little too woo. And they call. They also call those people the woo footers. It's kind of a derision towards that. But I, I think it's more of an all encompassing phenomenon that, that really we can't put a flesh and blood label on. I think there's. There's more to it. The mechanics of it, I have no idea. But I. It's fun to have these discussions, for sure.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah. I've started listening to Wes Germer's Sasquatch Chronicles. And that's a really fun one because Wes just lets them talk and they, you know, they unpack their entire encounter. A lot of times he'll even say people will ask for the more extreme things to just be omitted. Or can we just not talk about this? Because this thing did happen. But I don't want to include that because I sound like an asshole.

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[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Liberty. Liberty.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Liberty. Liberty. But one of the things that's super consistent is this telepathy or mindspeak. For both Dogman and Bigfoot. In fact, I don't really know. I've listened to so many of these things, I couldn't tell you if I've heard anywhere they. Where they talked with their mouth outside of these weird things like, you know, Bigfoot. Hunters will say there's like a samurai chatter. I don't know if you've ever heard that.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, I've heard the. The tapes from. I can't remember the guy's name, but from the Sierras.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I don't know what to make of that. It's. It's a fascinating sound, but overwhelmingly what I hear is that they communicate via intrusive thought. You know, to. To the extent that people call it mindspeaker telepathy. And another thing that's very consistent is in the moments leading up to seeing these things, everything will go unbelievably silent. Now, some people will say all the noise in the forest stopped. So all the. The chattering of the bugs and the. And, you know, the wildlife and the ambient noises from nearby roads or the wind in the trees and all this rustling stops. Because if the forest is. Anybody who spends time out there will tell you it's very. It's very loud. It's very loud. Anytime I've been camping or anything like that, like, it's. There's a ton of ambient noise from all the critters. They will say it stops altogether to the point where it's dead silent. Some people will go even further and say it's as if things were muffled, like being in some sort of a bubble where. I listened to a story recently, and a guy let off warning shots as something approached him, and it was a nine millimeter. I think he cracked off two rounds. And he said after shooting he would always have a ringing in his ear. Didn't happen this time. So that's like a real profound example of the degree to which the sound is muffled.

[Top Lobster]

I guess the question would be, are you walking into their. Like their cube? Like, you remember the meadow when we were talking?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, the Meadows project.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those guys actively walked into a cube that they saw, and then they all end up getting cancer and dying. It's craziness. Or is that cube being generated that. That wherever they're at, Is that field being generated because of the entity that is there, or do they exist within? That's what I'm trying to say.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

It's who. It almost seems like some people will say, like, they have the ability to, like, transmute reality. They change some fundamental Aspect of reality. Like, yeah, either. Either you crossed into something or it looks the same, but you're not really there. Which then starts to beg the question, if somebody was outside of that field, would they even see what you saw?

[Top Lobster]

I wonder if that cathedral's within that field.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Right, yeah, that's. You know what, that would be interesting thing to take like an EMF meter or do some kind of GIS scans to see if there is a magnetic anomaly or if there's some kind of high EMF spikes around where that happened. That's.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, I mean, these are. But these are the things that have made this field of research super weird. So you use that expression before the woo, you know, the woo footers or whatever.

[Top Lobster]

It's kind of funny, like. Well, from my cursory observation of Bigfoot observers, it seems like a lot. There's a lot more woo footers or at least a lot more interdimensional Bigfoot footers out there. Whereas before, you know. But when I was kind of looking at it like, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, that wasn't the case.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

No, no, that's been a modern phenomenon. I've been following it, you know, just out of interest for the past, probably 25 years. And I've noticed that there's definitely went from the, the Flesh and blood camp to the more quantum or woofooter perspective, or at least a lot of those flesh and blood people are recognizing there might be a supernatural component to this.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, yeah. I, I don't know where to put it. It's. It's become so chaotic that it opens the door for any number of potential realities as to its nature. In fact, I, I think the same thing that we talked about with Dogman, where I do think it's highly likely that there's, you know, reverse engineering because you hear these stories of people killing them and you also hear these stories of something coming to collect the body, Whether it's like, you know, men in black, unmarked but clearly official, you know, military intelligence, whatever. I've heard that enough times that it seems pretty clear to me that they have some vested interest. So of course, if they were able to take a body, you know, and get their hands on the genetic material, they would try to recreate it in some way, shape or form. So the same way you have that phenomenon likely taking place with Dogman, it's probably the same thing with Bigfoot. You know, I remember a story about a guy in an 18 wheeler shoots one of these dogmen with a.45 through the eye. And I remember him saying, like, he distinctively got the. The impression that if he hadn't, by some stroke of miracle hit this thing in the eye, it would not have died. It was just so big and hardy that it wouldn't have any. He said he heard it hit the ground. He saw it tumbling in his rear view, and he slammed his brakes. And as he slammed his brakes, he saw everything behind him get illuminated in red. And so he's driving this 18 wheeler. He turns around, which is a pain in the ass. You know, it takes some time, but he finally turns around and he heads back that way. And somebody is already there at the scene where the body was. And he could see the. All of the gravel and dirt and greenery that had been ripped up from this thing sliding off the road and into the tree line. And. And he said, hey, did you guys see something back here? I'm pretty sure something just, you know, came out of the woods. And. And they said, oh, a bear died. And another bear came and dragged it off into the forest, which is bizarre. And they're just sitting there watching that. And he goes, what the. So he gets out of there in short order. I don't know how long it was. After that, he's approached by a couple of, you know, Feds, and they told him that they wanted to talk to him, and the only clue they gave him was that he killed their asset, is how they put it. Which, you know, then you're left to go, why on earth would they tell you anything? And maybe they would tell you something because nobody's going to believe you if they did say that thing to you, and you went off and got on some fringe show somewhere and said, you know, that the Feds told me I killed their asset. But that's also not the first time I've heard something like that. So they consider these things assets, potentially. So they are, you know, creating them in labs, but maybe they do exist in the natural as well. And the reason that I'm saying that is because everything with this is so messy. It's so messy, man. There's. There's. UFOs involved, there's portals involved, there's infrasound and. And force fields that silent and muffle things. There's telepathy, and, you know, you're still left to deal with. What I see overwhelmingly is the running theory. People are beginning to think, you know, a Bigfoot is a nephilim, that it does share some human DNA, but there's something else mixed in it and that it's ancient and that it's highly intelligent

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Canaanite or Esau or something.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, it gets wild. And I just thought of tops nest next to T shirt design like the CBB Cryptid Breeding Bureau.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, nice. By the way, if that is a division, that's got to be a fun job.

[Top Lobster]

Imagine a fun job. You got to jerk off the Bigfoot.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, somebody's got to jerk off the Bigfoot. I don't know if that's everybody's job.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So I have a panel coming up here in a few weeks that I've been asked to moderate, and the topic is going to be CE5. So I have a couple CE5 practitioners that are going to be on the panel and I was wondering if you guys had any specific questions that you think I should ask them.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, why?

[Top Lobster]

Why are you gay?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Why are you gay? So some interesting questions that I think we. You would probably get answers for. If you're going to be into CE5 at all and you're going to be a practitioner, you've got a fascination with this sort of anomalous modality occurrence. I would ask them if they've had experiences throughout their life going back to childhood. You're going to get unanimous yeses across the board, I would imagine. And the other thing is, I don't know if they would draw the correlation between using the CE5 app and the things that, you know, our experience or having happen in their life at the moment. Because if you've had a lifetime of strange experiences, you probably wouldn't draw that correlation. But are they now having an uptick? An uptick Experiences? Communications, poltergeist activities, sleep paralysis, abduction experiences, you name it.

[Top Lobster]

It's a debate, you're saying.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

No, it's a panel at a. It's the Cryptids and Anomalies Conference in, in Wisconsin here in May 6th, I believe. And I, I've been asked to, you know, sit down with these guys and just kind of moderate the discussion. So ask them questions, get into the modalities. And one of my friends said, here, I'll grab it.

[Top Lobster]

Are you recording this?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

It's. It's possible. Yeah, we, we could. And he said that. Do you think that CE5 and seance anomalies are the same thing? So is there some connective tissue from the old practices of seances from like the Victorian era, the spiritualist area? Are those the same things as CE5? Because I think there, there is some connective tissue. I don't know if it's the exact same, but I think you probably see the same results in you guys saying, you know, if there are other paranormal phenomenon that have been occurring in your life since doing this, you might want to take heed.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Well, I mean, yeah, everything that we've looked into is this. It's what Sam Tripoli calls hardwired mysticism. So all of these entities and channeling and everything that took place in the past, even Aleister Crowley, I forget in what book it was, but he kind of mused on the idea that eventually these things would take a much more scientific approach. Approach. And I think maybe what he was right over the money on is that they would take a more technological approach. And I think that that's exactly what's.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

That might be the evolution from the spiritual assailants to, yes, the modern technological framework.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And I do believe that what they're experiencing is just. It's a frequency based technology that's very similar to the binaural beats that the Gates program would use. You know, people, you can listen to the Gates tapes.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, I'd say I'd be, I'd be less interested in like giving you questions to ask them because I'm sure that you kind of already know where to steer it. I'd be more interested in hearing just their testimony. You, you letting us know what they're saying specifically who they're talking to. Are they, if they're talking to the same or similar entities, if, if they're talking at all, or maybe some of them are just calling in orbs or UFOs and having fun with that. And if they are talking to them, what is the overall message?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Right.

[Top Lobster]

Getting back out of this.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

And I have a friend that's on the panel and he's a videographer, so if we can record it, I'll definitely pass you guys along a copy so you can see it for yourself.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

By the way, if, if afterwards you do have anything that you think would, would pique our interest, might be interested in talking to some of those people, having them. I don't want to tell them what they're doing is wrong or right. I just want to because the audience knows already what we suspect is going on. And if they are going to echo those statements.

[Top Lobster]

Taking drugs away from a drug addict is not going to work. You kind of have to show them like, well, but again, I don't know, maybe it's working out for them.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, but if they, if they are having interactions, I imagine there's a high likelihood that they are being imparted with sort of gnostic principles and IDEOLOGIES look at what?

[Top Lobster]

Look at David Wilcock.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, David Wilcock.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Shout out to David Wilcock or some.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, that's where I think this ultimately leads. And David made an astute observation about all these people that are touching that other side, whether they're doing it light. I don't know how deep David Wilcock was into it, but obviously falls deeper. Pretty deep. Yeah, but that's where it leads, man. At least a poverty disease. Yeah, yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Your relationships fall apart, your body falls apart, your mentality falls apart.

[Top Lobster]

You get a lot of cool occult knowledge, but in the end, just be very weary of where that's going to lead you, you know?

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah. So I got one more to tease you with. All right, but we're going to have to. We'll table this one for our next discussion. Have you guys heard of a project by the US Navy called Project Sanguine, also known as Project elf?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Sanguine, I thought was a Latin word for blood.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

It is, yes.

[Top Lobster]

I know about ELF waves, extremely low frequency, but I don't think it's the same thing we're talking about.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

It is, actually. So it was during the Cold War, the US Navy had a project going on in the Northwoods of Wisconsin, as well as the Upper peninsula of Michigan where they laid a ton of this cable. And the cable was connected to transmitters that transmitted ELF frequencies. Now the official. The official purpose of the project was to be able to transmit ultra low frequencies to submarines. So it was pretty much what they. I believe they called it a door knock or an alarm bell. So if a submarine, if you wanted them to surface, you weren't able to get a hold of them. But if you could transmit this ELF signal to them as a door knocker to say, hey, we need you to come topside so we can send you a message. They were able to do it through these transmitters. But with what you guys say about Puharich is true, was there some kind of COVID use to this project of these ELF transmissions coming from the northwoods of Wisconsin?

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I almost want to instinctively say, yes,

[Top Lobster]

I want to hear, yeah, I need to.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

But I need. I need to dive deeper in that. And maybe we can talk about that on. On another episode. But just some connective tissue between Puharich, because he comes up in every conversation. Yes. His first wife, Virginia Puharic, she was a resident of Madison, Wisconsin. And a lot of people don't know what happened to her. She had a touch of schizophrenia from the reports, and she threw herself from the top of the. The hospital that she was being admitted to. So she, she was born, lived and died in Madison, Wisconsin and was, was married to Puharch for many years. So some speculate that maybe it was one of the seances, maybe it was an experiment that Puharch was doing that drove her insane and made her. So that's just kind of a teaser.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Put an implant in her tooth.

[Top Lobster]

Well, you don't. Listen, man, you, if you think that you can open up a door within your household and you have this legal binding contract to your wife, it's not, something's not going to affect her. You're fooling yourself. And I think that you're going to find out a little bit of this with this C5. So maybe, maybe even press a little bit and ask them about their marital relations or personal relations because family and friends.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah, definitely.

[Top Lobster]

One of the guys that we, we've interviewed a couple of times, his girlfriend now and I think his, his parents as well, who live close to him, they're also experiencing the phenomenon. So it, it eeks out the tendril spread. The closer you get to people and the longer you're in contact with this stuff.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

I listened to your episode earlier with Dr. Heather Lynn and just kind of the spiritual attack that she was coming under, it's like, you know, it's like I, I want to keep this stuff out at arms distance. I have two, two small children too. So it's just like admire from afar. But you know, like they say, when, when you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back. So I think it's spiritual protection and caution that we need to give to these, these topics.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

So I think a lot of what we do and sounds like you're doing a similar thing is like you imagine you're in a dark cave and we're just pointing flashlights on things and going like, hey, look at that. But like the problem is when you go and you start picking it up and interacting with it, that's the problem. And if you're just on a, it's like being on a tour and like we're a tour guide and we're just like, yeah, if you look over here, you'll see starseeds. Very gay, very retarded. Don't touch them. Don't, don't mess with that. Yeah, I know it's shiny and cool looking. Don't touch it. Just leave it alone. But there it is, There it is. And then you just keep moving. But yeah, that interaction, once you start crossing that line, you download the CE5 app and shit. That's where Things get wonky, but. But having a discussion, I don't think is a problem.

[Top Lobster]

That analogy reminds me of when I used to work in. In the. The subway, in the tunnels, and we were down by where FDR had his secret tunnel.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

And we. We kind of went off the beaten path. We were doing track inspection, and it had a flashlight. And I'm like. Like, it's dark because there's no lighting in this. It's like a defunct tunnel. And the wall appears to be, like, glistening or moving. And I shine the flashlight on it, and it's just, like, in my scope of the flashlight, it's just a, you know, concrete. Old concrete wall, and I move it, and it's like. It just has, like, a weird property. And then I turn the side flashlight on, which has, like, a brighter scope, and the entire wall is filled with roaches. Yeah. So. But they were. They were appearing, and they were moving away from the scope of my light as I'm. As. I'm kind of, like, tracking them.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

So it's weird. It looks like something. The whole wall is kind of sort

[Top Lobster]

of moving, and in a way, that's kind of what we do. We, like, point a flashlight at a thing, and we look at it, and we. You see it sort of. But. And the rest is obscured until you turn on the rest of this flashlight, and you're like, yeah, this whole wall is filled with roaches.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

Then you have to ask yourself, do I. Do I leave this place? Is there protection that I can do? But, like, we're kind of living in that room that's filled with roaches, and it's becoming increasingly more filled with roaches. So I don't know. I think the best that we can do is prepare ourselves.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

You know, because we're here. We're. We've always been in this room. And before, we were just kind of looking at maybe the speculation of possibly something happening around the edges of our flashlight. But now, as the illumination increases, like, we're realizing, okay, we're here. Something needs to be done about this. And I think what needs to be done is it's. With us, it's not necessarily about the roaches.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

You can't do anything with the roaches.

[Top Lobster]

The roaches are gonna happen, and. And I am here, so I have to prepare myself.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Amen.

[Top Lobster]

That's what I can do.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

All right, well, listen, Jeff, this is a fascinating conversation, man. I'd love to have you back for. For a part two. If you want to talk about this whole, you know, puharich. Connection and things of that nature.

[Top Lobster]

We cover a little bit of your, your children's story too. That, that sounds like fun.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, yeah, that'll be, that'd be cool. But before we get out of here, let's remind everybody where they can find you.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

Badgerland Legends on Instagram and Facebook is the best place to find me. Did you smash that follow back button top?

[Top Lobster]

I gotta log in, dog.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Oh, yeah, this isn't, this is just

[Top Lobster]

like the regular I did, I did on Instagram.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

No, this is your Facebook. Awesome.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Facebook. It's not even logged in. It's just like public Facebook.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, it's just. I don't know how to log into my Facebook on here. I'm a boomer.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I can't, I can't believe you're. That's your main. Facebook is a terrible. Well, actually, I'm finding out that Facebook is kind of.

[Top Lobster]

No, he's doing really well on, on these platforms.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Maybe that's why I, I, I didn't like Facebook and now I'm finding out like, oh, it's actually people.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, I actually need this.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

I actually need this. And the people communication is much better on Facebook.

[Jeff (Badgerland Legends)]

So with that being said, if you got a crazy story from Wisconsin, whether you know it's a, a long lost legend or personal encounter, hit me up. I'm always happy to talk. Instagram is probably the best method for that, but Facebook messenger works too.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

All right, you heard him, guys. Go follow Badgerland Legends on, on Facebook and on, on Instagram.

[Top Lobster]

That's right. Jeff, thank you for, thanks for coming, hanging out and blessing us with, with some cool stories, dude.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

Yeah, this is great.

[Top Lobster]

Until next time, don't forget to obey, submit and comply. We'll see you.

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

And they will do it again.

[Top Lobster]

The end is written in the book,

[David Lee Corbo (The Raven)]

in the pages they. For. When the last trumpet sound.