TIME CAPSULE: The Shroud of Turin w/ Cult of Conspiracy

Summary

Nephilim Death Squad Episode Summary: "TIME CAPSULE: The Shroud of Turin w/ Cult of Conspiracy"

Release Date: April 27, 2025

In this engaging episode of Nephilim Death Squad, hosted by TopLobsta Productions, David Lee Corbo (also known as Raven) and Top Lobster delve deep into the mysteries surrounding the Shroud of Turin. They are joined by Jonathan and Jacob from the Cult of Conspiracy podcast, who bring their unique perspectives on conspiracies and spirituality. The conversation weaves through historical analysis, scientific examinations, and modern-day implications, providing listeners with a comprehensive overview of one of Christianity’s most debated relics.

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1. Introduction of Guests and Their Backgrounds

David Lee Corbo introduces the episode by welcoming Jonathan and Jacob, highlighting their podcast Cult of Conspiracy and their distinct approaches to conspiracies and spirituality.

Jonathan ([06:14]): "We have been going at it for about four years, covering a wide range of conspiracies and spiritual topics. Our differing philosophies make our discussions dynamic."

Jacob ([09:02]): "I was taught that growing up, we were trained in specific ways, but exploring topics like adrenochrome and reincarnation challenges those teachings."

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2. Hypnosis and Past Life Regression

The conversation shifts to Jonathan’s expertise as a licensed hypnotherapist specializing in past life regressions. Jonathan describes his techniques and the experiences of his clients, emphasizing the profound and often inexplicable nature of the information retrieved during sessions.

Jonathan ([09:10]): "Quantum Healing Hypnosis Therapy guides people to past lives through hypnosis, allowing them to communicate with their higher selves and receive answers from beyond."

David Lee Corbo shares his personal experience with past life regression, recounting how Jonathan was able to hypnotize him into living a past life as a Muslim warrior during the Crusades.

David Lee Corbo ([10:27]): "I don't believe in reincarnation, but the experience was so vivid, like a mushroom-induced trip without any substances."

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3. The Shroud of Turin: Historical and Scientific Examination

The core of the episode centers on the Shroud of Turin, a relic believed by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. David Lee Corbo provides an in-depth historical background, tracing the shroud's journey from its origins to its current residence in Turin, Italy.

a. Historical Context

David Lee Corbo outlines the Shroud's storied past, including its presence in Constantinople and subsequent transfer to France during the Fourth Crusade. He discusses how the Shroud was eventually secured by the House of Savoy and brought to Turin in 1578.

David Lee Corbo ([32:09]): "The Shroud of Turin is currently kept in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, since 1578."

b. Carbon Dating Controversy

The episode addresses the controversial 1988 carbon dating tests that suggested the Shroud originated between 1260 and 1390 AD. David and Jonathan scrutinize the methodology and potential flaws, arguing that the samples may have been contaminated from repairs and restorations over the centuries.

Jonathan ([80:37]): "The samples sent for carbon dating were taken from a burnt portion, likely leading to inaccurate results that don’t reflect the Shroud’s true age."

c. Image Formation and Scientific Analysis

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the mysterious image imprinted on the Shroud. David Lee Corbo explains the unique characteristics of the image, such as its superficial depth and the absence of pigments or dyes, which challenge conventional artistic reproduction methods.

David Lee Corbo ([56:06]): "The image penetrates only 2 microns into the cloth, with no signs of paint or pigment, making it impossible to replicate with known techniques."

Paolo De Lazaro, an Italian researcher, is cited for his analysis suggesting that the image formation involved an unprecedented and divine source of radiation, beyond current technological capabilities.

David Lee Corbo ([57:08]): "De Lazaro concluded that the image was created by an ultraviolet pulse exceeding modern technological limits, implying a divine intervention."

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4. Theological and Symbolic Interpretations

Jonathan and David explore the theological implications of the Shroud, tying it to Biblical accounts and symbols. They discuss how specific details on the Shroud, such as the placement of nails through the wrists and the precise handling of scourge marks, align with historical methods of crucifixion used during Jesus’s time.

Jonathan ([47:32]): "Nails driven through the wrists rather than the hands prevent them from sliding, which was a refined method used to prolong suffering."

David Lee Corbo emphasizes the Shroud's alignment with Biblical descriptions, arguing that its detailed markings are consistent with those expected from a genuine first-century crucifixion victim.

David Lee Corbo ([51:44]): "Only one other crucifixion victim had such detailed scourge marks and a traditional burial shroud, making it highly probable that the Shroud belonged to Jesus Christ."

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5. Modern-Day Implications and AI-Generated Images

The hosts transition to discussing modern technology's role in interpreting the Shroud, particularly focusing on AI's ability to recreate images of Jesus based on the Shroud’s data. They express both excitement and skepticism about AI's role in visualizing historical religious figures.

Top Lobster ([87:39]): "AI generating an image of Christ based on the Shroud is fascinating, but it raises questions about the authenticity and depiction of Jesus."

David Lee Corbo compares historical inaccuracies in AI-generated images, such as portraying Jesus with unrealistic features, to similar issues faced in reconstructions of other historical figures like Cleopatra.

David Lee Corbo ([89:11]): "The AI-generated image of Jesus as a white man with blue eyes doesn't align with historical accounts of him being a Middle Eastern Jew."

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6. Politics, Media, and Spiritual Warfare

Shifting gears, the discussion weaves into the influence of media and politics on public perception and spiritual awareness. Jonathan and Jacob critique modern media's hypnotic effects, drawing parallels to ancient spiritual warfare wherein information and symbolism are used to manipulate beliefs and behaviors.

Jonathan ([73:55]): "Words are symbols that carry immense informational weight, shaping perceptions and beliefs subconsciously."

Jacob highlights how media consumption patterns, especially among younger generations, can lead to reduced attention spans and increased vulnerability to manipulation.

Jacob ([75:03]): "The high flicker rates and rapid scene changes in modern media like cartoons are engineered to keep attention spans short, preventing deeper critical thinking."

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7. Concluding Discussions and Calls to Action

As the episode nears its end, the hosts and guests summarize their viewpoints on the Shroud of Turin’s authenticity and its implications for both religious belief and conspiracy theories. They encourage listeners to explore further, engage with their content on social platforms, and attend upcoming events related to conspiracies and spirituality.

Top Lobster ([94:19]): "Join us at brogrove.com for the Summerfield event featuring stand-up comedy and political discussions that blend conspiracy and entertainment."

David Lee Corbo ([95:31]): "Check out my new spin-off channel 'Cajun Knight' on YouTube for more insights into geopolitics and night fighting."

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Notable Quotes

• Jonathan ([06:14]): "Our differing philosophies make our discussions dynamic."

• David Lee Corbo ([10:27]): "I don't believe in reincarnation, but the experience was so vivid."

• David Lee Corbo ([56:06]): "The image penetrates only 2 microns into the cloth, with no signs of paint or pigment."

• Jonathan ([80:37]): "The samples sent for carbon dating were taken from a burnt portion, likely leading to inaccurate results."

• David Lee Corbo ([51:44]): "Only one other crucifixion victim had such detailed scourge marks and a traditional burial shroud."

• Top Lobster ([73:55]): "Words are symbols that carry immense informational weight."

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Conclusion

This episode of Nephilim Death Squad offers a thorough exploration of the Shroud of Turin, blending historical evidence with scientific scrutiny and spiritual interpretation. Through the insightful dialogue between the hosts and guests, listeners gain a multifaceted understanding of the Shroud's significance, its controversies, and its enduring impact on faith and conspiracy theories alike.

For those intrigued by the intersection of history, science, and spirituality, this episode serves as a compelling resource, encouraging further investigation and critical thinking.

Transcript

[David Lee Corbo]

Hello.

[Top Lobster]

Come on out of there, whoever you are.

[David Lee Corbo]

They were giving them acid. They were giving them lsd. So it was MK Ultra, and. And then they did it on a world stage with the hippie movement.

[Jonathan]

I'm sorry, lady. I House.

[David Lee Corbo]

It's not surprising that the information age is characterized by a lot of knowledge but not wisdom.

[Top Lobster]

The only people that should be transphobic are unattended minors.

[Jonathan]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

Children. You train a.

[Jonathan]

How to make espresso.

[David Lee Corbo]

And you know it's gonna be great coffee.

[Top Lobster]

And we dream.

[Jonathan]

Each of us dying slowly in the prison of our minds.

[David Lee Corbo]

We sit in the sun in paint. We sleep.

[Jonathan]

Dick Cheney, Joe Biden, J6 6 Secret Service assassination attempt on Trump. And she's.

[David Lee Corbo]

She's involved with all of that somehow.

[Jonathan]

He's certainly not in that position because she's good at her fucking job.

[David Lee Corbo]

We were taught that.

[Jacob]

I was taught that.

[David Lee Corbo]

We were taught that growing up that.

[Jonathan]

They were upset about a 2% T.

[David Lee Corbo]

Tax and they rioted and what. Whatever. So what King George did, he sent in a standing army at peacetime.

[Top Lobster]

They were militarized there.

[Jonathan]

How are you able to be up on an altar guiding people when you, within yourself, don't even know where you stand? There's only a certain amount of years.

[David Lee Corbo]

That humans will be subservient to a.

[Jonathan]

System before they all start to snap out.

[David Lee Corbo]

What do you think about the topic of adrenochrome being this, like, secular description of that.

[Jonathan]

Exactly.

[David Lee Corbo]

Of like, this royal jelly.

[Jonathan]

And I said, well, how do you know you're trans?

[Top Lobster]

He goes, no, you don't get it.

[Jonathan]

And I thought, is trans just rainbow Goth?

[Top Lobster]

In Texas recently, they had banned abortion. The women were upset. Then a few weeks later, there was a school shooting, and the women were upset again. And I was like, well, are we killing kids or not, babe?

[David Lee Corbo]

Stay away.

[Jonathan]

What's going on in my house?

[David Lee Corbo]

You saying Joe Rogan likes to squirt?

[Jonathan]

You got so roughly fucked by a giant black cock.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. That your anus literally fell out.

[David Lee Corbo]

The only food we're getting involved here.

[Jonathan]

Is the titty milk.

[David Lee Corbo]

That's it.

[Jacob]

The kingdom of God.

[Jonathan]

The kingdom of heaven.

[David Lee Corbo]

Take that step. Bless your heart. Take that step. And when I stand on the mountain.

[Top Lobster]

And I say do it, it gets done.

[David Lee Corbo]

If it don't get done, then I'll move.

[Top Lobster]

That's not God. You created a Franken baby out of, you know, a bunch of different ideas that all contradict each other. And, you know, none of them are very well thought out, but it's very much like a child's way of throwing a tantrum and a bit of a fit.

[Jacob]

There's no understanding the correlation between the increase in technology and the decrease in spirituality. We've like, exponentially went up in technology and people are just completely spiritually retarded.

[David Lee Corbo]

We are being hypnotized by people like this.

[Jonathan]

News readers, politicians, teachers, lecturers.

[David Lee Corbo]

We are in a country and in.

[Jonathan]

A world that is being run by unbelievably sick people.

[David Lee Corbo]

The chasm between what we're told is going on and what is really going on is absolutely. Oh yeah, dude, there's some Nephilim shit. It's like we all know what's going.

[Jonathan]

Down, but no one's saying what happened to the home of the brave?

[Top Lobster]

They control this now when no one's.

[Jonathan]

Talking about how they know this, how to be slaves.

[Top Lobster]

And everybody's just walking around heading the closet. Wanna wake up to a got in the grave. Finally we need to be ready to raise up. Welcome to the end of day. Everybody is welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to another episode of Nephilim Death Squad. I am David Lee Corbo, AKA the Raven, that is top lobster, the father of disinformation. And today we are joined by two guests in Jonathan and Jacob of the Cult of Conspiracy podcast. We have a pretty interesting topic that we're gonna get into today. But before we do all that, gentlemen, can you please. Let's start with Jonathan. Introduce yourselves a little bit to the people who may not know you and let them know where it is they can find your work and what it is you focus on.

[Jonathan]

All right, so I'm Jonathan. The name of our podcast is the Cult of Conspiracy. We have been going at it for about four years, a little bit over four years now. And we are just constantly hammering on not only modern day, you know, kind of conspiracies, but, you know, the, the old ones that we all know and that we love and stuff like that. And maybe, maybe old ones that you've never even heard of. And so we kind of are very stretched across the board as far as everything that we'll cover. We do get into a lot of conspiracies, obviously, but then there's also, like, spiritual assets that are also brought in. And that's really why we decided to. To come with this topic here, because Jacob and I are very different. We are. That's my best friend, my ride or die. I never, you know, if. If there's a Armageddon, like, that's the guy I'm calling.

[Jacob]

I wish I felt the same about Mike, I knew it.

[Top Lobster]

I knew it was coming. You terrible piece of.

[Jonathan]

Unbelievable. But that being said, we have very different philosophies about how we look at faith and just spirituality in general. I come from more of what you might call the woo woo end. Jacob, on the other end, Christian. So this topic right here was very fun for us to put together back whenever we first put it together, because he's looking at it from that Christian mindset and I look at it from the. The spiritual philosopher, I guess, if you will. And so, yeah, that. I think that's what makes the show, you know, tick, is that it's not necessarily an echo chamber. It's two different opinions and people coming together. And, you know, we usually always end up with the same opinion though, coming at it from two different areas.

[David Lee Corbo]

Either same opinion or at least we can appreciate the opposite vantage point from a different perspective, which. And that's the thing. So Jonathan, being more of the spiritual person, he is a licensed hypnotherapist who specializes in past life regressions and speaking to the higher self. Meanwhile, I am a Marine Corps infantry veteran, I am a Christian, and I'm a conspiracy head. So we come from very different places when we approach any type of conspiracy, whether that be the JFK assassination, the 911 debacle, or if we're going all the way back to the Sumerian tablets into the ancient text and everything in between. So I look at things from a very quote unquote logical analytical standpoint. Jonathan looks at things from a very esoteric and third eye vantage point. And so a lot of times we clash. We don't agree on a lot of things. That's kind of a inherent property of this. But the back and forth itself is kind of what makes this show what it is. I got a hooked up with Jonathan about six months after the cult of conspiracy had launched. And it's pretty much just been all gas, no breaks ever since. You know, one thing led to another and we're rapidly approaching coming up on 600 episodes released. It's just, it's been a wild ride, bro.

[Jacob]

Interesting. I'm, I'm, I'm kind of stuck on. Are you. You're a practicing hypnotherapist right now. And what else?

[Jonathan]

Yeah, it's, it's, it's hypnotherapy, but it's past life regressions. And so if anybody's ever heard of Dolores Cannon, she developed this, this thing called qhht, which stands for Quantum Healing Hypnosis Therapy. And it guides people to A past life through hypnosis. And then afterward, you know, typically, people will, you know, give me some questions that they would like me to ask their higher self after the past life. And those questions, I mean, you're. You're talking about questions that people would want to ask the universe, ask God, ask spirit guides, or. And so obviously, it's unthinkable, it's unknowable information that. That you're searching for. And what's great about it is, is that you're. You're getting those answers, but they're coming out of your mouth. So you can call it channeling, you can call it, you know, just conversations with your higher self or your highest self or whatever, the highest ascended version of you or whatever is, but those answers are coming through. And as a matter of fact, I actually hypnotized Jacob about a year ago. Somebody who doesn't even believe in reincarnation outside of one person and doesn't believe in past lives, and yet I was able to hypnotize him. He had a whole life as a Muslim, by the way.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

And all the questions that he had asked.

[Jacob]

I can see that. Like, can you see him in the cage?

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah. I can't tell if you can see what's behind me, but I do.

[Jacob]

Boo.

[David Lee Corbo]

Hurt. I do armored combat.

[Top Lobster]

Right?

[David Lee Corbo]

So like, cage fighting with steel and swords, and that's what I. Yeah. Wait, wait, wait.

[Top Lobster]

This is crazy, because somebody.

[Jacob]

Wait, wait a second. This is what I'm saying. We're not talking about the. The shroud of tiering right now. You guys know that, right?

[David Lee Corbo]

We're not. We're not. This is what I do. Like, I'm actually the team captain of my local team. All right? So we beat the hell out of each other wearing 80 pounds of steel armor. We go completely ham. It's a. It's a blast. Good time. But. But. And me being a Christian who does these things, all of that. Jonathan hypnotized me. And we have been teasing our cult members, as we call our listeners, our cult members, for a long time, saying, fine, I'll finally do it. I'll get hypnot baptized. Gentlemen, I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't believe in reincarnation. I don't believe in past lives, but I also cannot cleanly describe logically what that was. Okay? I lived an entire life as a Muslim dude who was fighting alongside the Christians during the Crusades.

[Top Lobster]

Okay.

[David Lee Corbo]

The entire life. And all this. Now, could that.

[Jacob]

In the hypnosis. Yes, in the hypno.

[Top Lobster]

So there was a time dilation issue, right, because you would have had a lot of experiences in, in a relatively short amount of time. There's a story with Ari Shafir. Ari Shafir takes, he's a stand up comedian. He takes.

[David Lee Corbo]

I love our Shafir dude.

[Top Lobster]

What's, what's the, the. I've smoked it before. Salvia. He takes salvia and he ends up going on this trip where he has an entire life underwater. He's got a family, he's got a job, he lives under the ocean somehow. And it was so real that when he came out of this experience, there was actually like, you know, a longing for this family that he had left. That's how real this experience was. And I don't know what to do with that information when I hear ideas about reincarnation. I'm also a Christian, but I believe that there. We talked to somebody one time, or maybe it was I who talked to him who said that he had an entity that was a hitchhiker essentially, and he had a relationship with this entity and this thing would loose off of his energy and who knows if this story is real or not. But one of the things that I found interesting that he said was that there is a karmic system and there is a reincarnation cycle, but it was not created by God. If it was created by God, it would be perfect. It was created by angels. God commissioned them to create it. Allegedly this is all just, you know, something secondhand that he has from this entity. Who knows if it's even real? But that, because it's not created by God and it's not perfect, it's kind of backed up and screwed up in a lot of ways. Over, over time and over generations, it has become essentially a mess. And I just thought that was fascinating because there are a lot of instances like what you're describing where, like, I just don't know where to place it, man. I don't know what to do with a little boy who says, this is the house that I lived in. This is the family that I had. We had a dog, I died in the ocean. And then they all said they go to his house and they find out, well, yeah, there was a little boy that passed away here.

[Jacob]

Let me ask a question to Jonathan. What is hypnosis? And I don't mean to cut you off in the story, but like, no, no, you are, you, you're not just putting somebody to sleep, but it's. Are you transporting them to another dimension, another realm where they are Living this. What is.

[Jonathan]

I would ask you the same question, but referring to a dream. What happens whenever you dream at night? Are you going to another realm? Are you going to another world? I mean, this is all up for conjecture.

[David Lee Corbo]

Are you.

[Jonathan]

Are you traversing the. The parallel realities that we're living in? There's no way of really proving it. So I don't know exactly what's going on. However, I will say that Dolores Cannon, she is very famous, or she was very famous. She passed away in 2014, I believe. But she was very famous for having these crazy, like insane stories within past life regressions. So much so that she hypnotized a person and she went back to. Well, I don't know if you can even say that she went back. She was basically talking to Nostradamus and was able to get all the information from Nostradamus and essentially fill in the gaps that were left open for interpretation of all of Nostradamus's prophecies. And so this kind of crazy happens all the time. And what's even crazier about that is that not only was she able to hypnotize that person to talk to Nostradamus, that person ended up having to move out of state. So she wasn't able to get hypnotized by Dolores anymore. But what she said was, during that last hypnosis with this person who was essentially Nostradamus, I guess you could say is that the next person you hypnotize, you will be able to receive information from me. And sure as hell that's what happened. The next person that she hypnotized didn't tell this story to, didn't relay that information to, was able to get information from Nostradamus to continue on filling in all of the entry, all of the intricacies and all the interpretations that were lost and filled them in and created a whole book under, like to be able to better understand Nostradamus's prophecy. So call that what you want, but like I. I believe. And, and also another thing that Nostradamus was saying in this hypnosis was that you're not time traveling. You're talking to me in real time. I'm here. There is no such thing as past. There is no such thing as the future. The only thing that is real is the present moment. And so everything, whenever you think about the past, it's just a memory. Whenever you think about the future, it's just imagining or dreaming what it could be.

[David Lee Corbo]

There.

[Jonathan]

There actually is no proof that the future or the past actually exists in our minds. In our minds.

[Top Lobster]

That would begin to. I'm sorry to cut you off, but that would begin to beg the question of, like, was there a time when Nostradamus was, you know, pondering, and all of a sudden, this face kind of peeks through a veil? We were talking to Juan Ayala recently, and one of the things he talked about was these ascended masters, right? Those alchemists who reached their magnum opus, basically transcending this reality, but popping up back again through history. Different characters will tell stories about. Yeah, suddenly I was in this moment in my lab. I was working on this creation. I was. I was pondering this equation or question or philosophical quandary, and then all of a sudden, somebody pops through the veil and says, hey, you're on the right track. Keep it going. And then pops back through. And the way they were described or the name that was given was somebody who hasn't been seen in, you know, centuries. But the. The last known writings about them were that they were an alchemist trying to, you know, do the great works. And so I just wonder, you know, when it comes to that is like, is there a time. I understand this idea that time is not the present moment. Yeah. It's not linear. Right. They often say it's like a flat disc, but this idea that somewhere on that flat disc, Nostradamus was hanging out and then all of a sudden had some chick pop through and ask him a couple of questions.

[Jonathan]

Well, and on top of that, going back to what you were saying about the. The angel or whatever that created this kind of, like, reincarnation, possibly, like, time loop or whatever, this is actually something that the Buddhists talk about. They talk about ascending. Beyond that, and the idea that you can get out of this reincarnation cycle, which is known as Samsara, and that Samsara is that continuous loop. All right? You die. You come back. You die. You come back. They're trying to get away from that and ascend into heaven or whatever it is. And so, yeah, this is something that, you know, it's. I mean, it might sound crazy. Who's to know, dude? I mean, it's all speculation until we get there. I mean, let's want to take it on faith. I don't think there's nothing wrong with taking it on faith either, I think.

[Jacob]

Let me. Let me ask you this, because I have. I've had this theory. I don't. Are you guys also into politics? Sort of.

[David Lee Corbo]

I literally. My YouTube channel drops a lot of Geopolitical news stuff. So, yeah, a little bit.

[Jacob]

Okay, so I kind of, like, lost my train of thought there. No, no, no. All right. So with politics, I, I look around and I look at the people. And when you're looking at this left, right dynamic, you're looking at people almost on both sides as well. But like, like kind of there's like, it's not the extremes, but it's a corner of it where they are clearly NPC being programmed to do this or do that.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Jacob]

Okay. These people, do they have a soul? Is what I'm questioning, like, if we are in this reincarnation loop, because I'm not. I'm a Christian. But I think that there is something to that. I think that there is something to this loop because it's. It comes up too many times.

[Top Lobster]

Can I piggyback off of that real quick? Just so I think you. You're having the same thought that I am, which comes from, I believe, the same character who shared that karmic, you know, creation idea with us. And one of the other things he said was that there will come a time. And, you know, this is just the ramblings of. Of a dude who admittedly would. He would say he's a crazy dude, you know, he's really there as far as his, his facilities, you know, or his faculties, rather. He's. He seems sound, but this is just the story that he told us. And so one of the things he said was that this entity who's been around since before the time of Jesus says, like, yeah, reincarnation is real, but there is going to come a time where already there's a disproportionate amount of souls to flesh and that there will come a time when the last soul is born. And what he thinks is when that time comes is when we're really going to see sort of, you know, the, the closing of an age, you know, some. Something apocalyptic in nature. But that idea that there's not enough soul to. To match the amount of flesh that's being produced is kind of falls into the NPC thing.

[Jacob]

So why they're like, start killing all the babies, like, yo, we don't have any more souls.

[David Lee Corbo]

There's levels and levels of why they started killing all the babies. Not just Planned Parenthood. You can go all the way back to the Roman society. They had a certain plant that was so popular in use for abortions that they actually put it on the back of their coins. By the way, I'm a Christian that cusses a lot Y'all, I'm. Yeah, I am not the type that looks, acts or sounds like one.

[Jonathan]

Okay?

[David Lee Corbo]

My walk with God. It's my walk with God off. You know what I mean? But anyway, that being said, with the reincarnation conversation, I don't know what to make of it. Okay. Now yes, I may not personally believe in it. However, I would be out of my mind to dismiss all of the near death experiences of profound things that they come and wake up from. They were pronounced dead for X amount of time and they saw something. Or these children that as soon as they're able to speak have this vast knowledge about how to fly an airplane or some and who've never stepped foot in a cockpit before, before. I can't neatly tie that in. What I am willing to acknowledge is that there's way more at play here than what my human brain can intake. And I'm okay with that. I see the Bible as a source, not an all encompassing book, start to finish of everything that ever will be, was or has been. I see our Bible as our mana. It is our portion. It is not too little or too much for us. It's exactly what we needed to hear for what we need to know. With that being said, the past life regression that Jonathan put me through, I don't know what to make of it. I can tell you that the closest thing I can make to it is think of a mushroom induced trip with no mushrooms or outside sources or inhibitors whatsoever you actually have. Yeah, but as far as having a trippy experience that is real. You smell the smells, you feel the feels, you see the things, all of that is as real to you as what you're seeing before your eyes right now. But then you wake up from it. Now, I don't know what to call it is that is Jonathan putting you into a dream state. And that's what happens when your imagination just goes off the leash and just meanders and this is what comes up. Was there a kernel of truth to that? So that somewhere deep within my recessive DNA came out and dose you? No, I can promise that's the thing, Jonathan.

[Top Lobster]

Next time let him dose you.

[Jacob]

I thought, see what happens.

[David Lee Corbo]

I thought about next time maybe taking a little dmt, see what happens. But I'm be honest man, I want these experiences to be profound and real and I don't want to be able to chalk it up to oh well that's just because I was high. Oh, that's just because. No, I want to be able to say for sure. This was Jacob experiencing This for Jacob, and I gotta say, it's profound.

[Jonathan]

They've also gotten into, like, if you look at some of the laws of thermodynamics, I think it's the third or fourth law of thermodynamics that says that energy can't be created or destroyed, only transferred. So that is, in my opinion, all the scientific proof that you would need to say, all right, look, we don't know if we're going to a heaven. We don't know if we're going to another realm or another parallel universe or something, but something is absolutely happening. When we die. We don't just disperse into nothingness. That whatever you are, the energy that encompasses you goes on. It doesn't end when the lights go out in this human, you know, avatar, you know, and so that's why I love the, the past life regression stuff. And I'm not saying that like, I absolutely believe that this is what's happening. Like, I, I want to believe that I have hints of, you know, things that may, you know, like, want to guide me into believing that. But I can't say a hundred percent sure, you know, like, that that in and of itself is kind of a faith based mentality, which, you know, I, I think that faith is, you know, it's, it's obviously warranted in a lot of like, specific spiritual conversations, but that's not a way to prove it. And so, yeah, it's wild.

[Top Lobster]

Dude, this is something that I was thinking about while you're talking to me about this idea of, of this past life thing. It's like you have these instances of people that get into traumatic head injuries, right? And then suddenly they know a different language or they can play piano, or they're inexplicably good at mathematics for whatever reason. Even though these people, you couldn't argue that there's a genetic, you know, reason. It's not like your grandfather was a fantastic mathematician or, you know, was a, was a, a professional pianist or anything like that.

[Jacob]

Well, you see, the average IQ of a Haitian is 67.

[Top Lobster]

But look, the thing that I'm getting at here is like, okay, if you can have a head injury and suddenly gain access to something that's not in your wheelhouse, right. That suggests that you're tapping into something when it comes to these regressive hypnosis things or past life memories, could there be something like the akashic records being responsible for it? Right. This idea that the collective memories and experiences of, of everything in the universe all goes to one consolidated place, whether it's, you know, in another realm or wherever the case may be. But maybe depending on how you tune the receiver, tune your brain, you're actually dipping into. So maybe you're having very real experiences that actually did happen, whether it's in this reality or another reality or something. You know, people want to get into the multiverse. But that doesn't necessarily mean that it was your soul being recycled. Really, what happened is you tapped into. And I'm not saying it's just a theory. You tapped into the. The greater body of experiences of humankind.

[Jonathan]

So I will read you a piece of the induction. Well, it's not necessarily the induction, but whenever I hypnotize somebody, I do have an induction method.

[Top Lobster]

He's gonna make us get naked on stream. This dude's about to hypnotize. Hypnotize the audience. Tell them to pay us. Tell them to pay us.

[Jonathan]

Pulling your dick out right now.

[David Lee Corbo]

Driving to the Patreon top tier.

[Jonathan]

But no, there's something very interesting. And whenever people like to say, oh, I got this information from God, I got it from the Akashic records, I think that it actually might be a little more simple than that, strictly based upon what I'm. What I'm saying in this session. So at the end of the session or at the end of the past life, like I said, I'm trying to guide you to your higher self or your subconscious to be able to answer certain questions that you have that you just can't seem to crack the code to. And one of the things that I say is, is that I respect the power of the subconscious or the higher self, because I know the subconscious takes care of so and so's body and does a very good job of it. I also know that the subconscious has all the records of that has ever happened to so and so in this lifetime and all the other lifetimes that they have ever lived. So I think it's possible that whenever you look at this kind of information and you couple it with the fact that even biblically and a bunch of other, you know, religious scripts, that they all say that God is within you. And if God is everything, then that means that everything is within you. I look at it that way. And so I think that it's probably hard to really connect with that at a conscious level. But at a subconscious level, there are strands that you can start to pull. And maybe this is where people get downloaded information, or this is where people will get certain prophecies or whatever. Whatever that connection to God or the all or the source of the universe, whatever you want to call it, that is all within you. It's just that you got to tune the antenna a little bit. You know, I think you're not going to.

[Jacob]

I don't know. It just seems incredibly dangerous because you're not. You're not just like, is the. Is the antenna tuned to this specific God that you're talking to? Because I'm of the belief that there's a lot of shit floating around out there. And it's there. It's in localities. We know that, like, these things are not omnipresent, but there's shit in this ether in the. In the upside down. And you never know what. What's next to you. It might be moving around or you might have moved to its location. So, like, when you open up this doorway, how could you be sure of, like, what you're getting through, but that.

[David Lee Corbo]

Actually you're not asking for outside sources? When he hypnotizes, you're going introspective.

[Jonathan]

You're going within oneself, and also you are protected. Like, there are certain things that you can say whenever you're in meditation or you're trying to perform some kind of ritual or whatever, if you believe in that kind of stuff, that there are certain things that you can say and your subconscious mind begins to accept. And in my induction method, I have it to where whenever somebody is getting ready to be hypnotized before they are even hypnotized, they are subconsciously understanding the fact that whatever is going on, they are in this, like, kind of protective bubble that nothing from the outside could possibly come in. And therefore, maybe that suggests that you're not allowing information from any kind of outside source into that bubble that, you know, all the information that you're getting and receiving is strictly from you. That's. Now that's, you know, that's what's in the induction method. You can say, all right, well, who's to say that a demon can't poke that bubble and sneak their way through there? That's all conjecture.

[Top Lobster]

Let me ask you this. You. You mentioned at the top of the show that even though you come from different kind of practices or ideologies, that you often come to the same conclusion. And I'm not asking you for specifics, but, like, what do those conclusions often look like?

[David Lee Corbo]

Like.

[Jonathan]

Well, an example would be exactly what we're talking about right here as far as the shroud of turn of Jesus. Although we may have our different understandings and philosophies as to how this was printed onto this shroud. We both believe that it was the actual human living being of Jesus of Nazareth in 2 in. In whatever, 30 A.D. yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

And so I'm gonna be honest with you, when we first looked into the Shrouded Tournament, I'm glad this was an awesome segue to, to bring in how we do that. Another example is he and I can both acknowledge what true evil is and what true good is. For instance, Pedophilic Rings of the Elites. We have no problems being on the same side of that argument and dying on the hill of protecting babies. You know what I mean? So more often than not, when you go up the chain of, we actually do end up on the same footing. But when it came to the Shrouded Tour and Jonathan reached out to me about this, this was back episode 100 and something for he and I, this was years ago. And he said, bro, we need to talk about the Shroud of Torn. And I'm being a Christian, I knew about it and I had known a couple of things. I didn't know the lengths and depths of it that we're going to go over today. But I was like, are you sure? He's like, dude, like the whole thing, we got to talk about it. I'm like, I mean, you don't have to threaten me with a good time, bro. I'm all about talking about things I believe in. But, like, okay, sure. And through this research, he and I both came to a very real understanding that while forgeries may have existed, and while there is a camp of thought to say that the shroud itself is a forgery, if this is a forgery, then this is. The people who created it somewhere around the 1500s were so smart and so slick at creating a forgery that not only did they get blood types, right, not only did they get the scourge marks from the beatings, right, but they got the actual dirt from Jerusalem in 0 AD. Correct. These people were such master forgers in the 1500s that we still can't tell the difference today. That's what we're left with. So beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt, Jonathan and I can fully stand on the firm footing that the Shroud of Torn at one time did in fact hold the body of Yeshua of Nazareth that we know to be Jesus Christ. Christ get into it.

[Jonathan]

And, and by the way, you know, there obviously, I don't know if everybody knows the whole story about, you know, whenever he was taken down from the cross and put into the tomb and with the, with the shroud or anything. So maybe give a little bit of.

[Top Lobster]

That's exactly what I was gonna. Thank you so much for doing that because that's exactly what I was going to recommend for those people who might not know. I have a peripheral knowledge of it. You know, it seems pretty self explanatory and I've watched some videos and such, but I would really appreciate. Let's lay out what exactly the shroud is and then we can get into what sounds like a little bit of vindication for you guys, because like we discussed earlier, they came out and they, they said that they've dated it back to about 2,000 years old. So, I mean, you know, great big high five between the two of you. So let's, let's lay out a little bit of what, what is the shroud of turbine for those who may not know?

[David Lee Corbo]

All right, so let's just start at the top here. The shroud of corn. A shroud, or more specifically a death shroud, is a cloth that a person is buried in. Okay. It's traditionally been used in multiple cultures around the world. Have either of you seen the movie Braveheart?

[Top Lobster]

Yes. Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

Do you all remember the scene where when his first wife that he married in secret, died, they buried her in a secret place and she was wearing some sort of like mesh sheath looking cloth?

[Top Lobster]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo]

This would be a death shroud, and that was a traditional type that was used in Scotland at that time. However, there are multiple cultures with traditions of using death shrouds. The Jews, the Hebrews being one of them. All right, now the shroud in question is currently kept in Torino, Italy, and it is in the Piemont region. Hence where it gets the name Shroud of Turret. Okay. It's in the. It is currently hailed in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, and it's been there since 1578. Now, this shroud itself in question, as we look at it. Okay, let's break down a little bit about how it was made, what's it made of, and all these things. But for the, for the overarching theme of how it came to be. The story goes, Jesus was crucified, but before that he was beaten, he was flogged, he was scourged with a cat of nine tails. This is a whip that has nine leather straps. Connected to the ends were pieces of metal, hooks, bone, whatever you want. It was meant to rip flesh from bone. Okay. And he was beaten with this upwards of. I want to say it was like 300, 400 times, which is crazy because. Well, actually we'll get into the significance of the number of beatings later. But anyway, he was beaten within an inch of his life. A lot of prisoners died in the process of getting beaten in this manner. But then he was made to carry his own cross, the implement of his own murder, to the place of called Golgotha, the, the mountain of skulls where the Romans did a lot of executions. He was nailed to the cross. He was left to suffocate and die. Now execution by crucifixion is the slowest way to suffocate a human being. Still to this day, there's no other method that comes close. The Romans were able to figure this out through a very, very brutal means of trial and error. This, it wasn't like Christianity is the only group that did the crucifixion jam. Keep in mind Spartacus and his whole uprising were crucified by the Roman government when they were finally put down. So this was not a regular type of execution, but it was saved for the absolute most heinous and horrible criminals that Rome would come across. So we know for a fact that the whoever was hail within the shroud of torn was a crucifixion victim. We can see that from the marks from through the wrists and through the feet. Also there was only one example of a crown of thorns being placed onto a prisoner's head before their death. Depth in the negative of the Shroud of touring we can clearly see those marks as well. But I might be getting a little ahead of myself on the shroud and what we actually see with it. The shroud is made of cheap materials, but is a very rare way that it's put together. Think of this as you have like a hoodie. Okay? Now you have your Walmart brand hoodie and you have your name brand hoodie that costs 500. They're made out of the same material, but one is more high quality. You with me? Right. So the creditoring was made with inexpensive materials, but in a high quality way. It is. The cloth is woven into a three in one herringbone twill pattern. It is very rare for the first century ad. However, there has recently been another example discovered in a Roman encampment in Egypt. They were doing some excavation. They found this whole. I'm not sure if it was like a chest of clothing or what, but they found clothing materials in this Roman encampment all having the same three in one herringbone twill pattern. Rare. But this is yet another historical precedence of the fact that this cloth does date Back to the first century AD in Rome. This pattern is shown, like I said, in the Hungarian manuscript. As a matter of fact in 1192. I don't know if I'm able to share the screen.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jacob]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo]

Okay. I had a couple of images I wanted to pull up to show historical precedence to this. Hold on. How do we share screen?

[Top Lobster]

Yeah. You're gonna see a tab at the bottom. It says present. You'll click on that and then it'll. I'll ask you for the tab that you want to share.

[Jacob]

Oh man, you guys are killing it. So far. I am enthralled.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, dude. Yeah, this is, this is perfect. Very, very pumped.

[David Lee Corbo]

Okay. I am unable to do this.

[Jonathan]

If one of y'all.

[David Lee Corbo]

If one of y'all could Google Image Hungarian manuscript 1192. I promise you'll see the picture that I'm talking about. It's. It's very, very popular on this one. This manuscript also shows these L shaped burn markings which we will discuss in a little bit. But the fact that it was shown in 1192 is very important because there was a fire in the 15. That has been the subject of a lot of conjecture around the Shroud. But again, getting ahead of myself. The dimensions are currently 14 foot 6 inches by 3 foot 9 inches. But this is after the Shroud was steamed and stretched out in 2002. The original dimensions did in fact line up with the traditional death shroud dimensions that would have been around in the first century A.D. however, the stretching that took place, they were measured in cubits. I should mention that. So the cubits to feet, it is a correct translation, one to one. The stretching in 2002 is what made it a different size these days. Some of those images you'll see there will be a body on the Shroud and then right under it you'll see another one. If you zoom in. Hold on. Scroll up. I wish I could show them. Damn.

[Jacob]

All right.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right there where your cursor is. Click that one. So on the top of that you see the body of Jesus. And if you zoom in on the one underneath it, it, you'll see this hair and bone twill pattern, the O interwoven side of it. And you'll also see L shaped burn marks on.

[Top Lobster]

It's interesting that they saw fit to even leave that descriptive in the image. Right. The, the pattern that it was sewed into. That's. That's an interesting detail that they tried to preserve.

[David Lee Corbo]

I agree. 100 and it's crazy because we look at medieval Art. And we look at medieval artwork, and it's not the best detail, but they did, in fact, make sure to leave details when it came to their lord and savior. I agree. I think that is fascinating.

[Top Lobster]

That is fascinating.

[David Lee Corbo]

So, like I said, the original dimensions were measured in cubits, but it is consistent with other barrier shrouds of this time. The Original shroud is 0.04 inches thick and has a thread count of between 70 to 120 micron and a threat count of that per inch. And it's. Each thread is about 200ish microns thick. Now, again, we're doing ish, and there's a little bit of tolerance here because this was handmade woven material. There was no factory textiles at that time. So you have a little bit of give and take on that. The brown lines on the side that go up and down the entire length of the Shroud actually are scorch marks from the fire in 1532. And as we could see from that Hungarian text, we didn't see brown scorch marks that has become so iconic to the Shroud today. That drawing, that manuscript was scripted 400 years before the fire actually took place. So from the fire on, where we start to see the coloration that we know of it today. Let me see here. The 4L shaping marks, those burn marks, no one actually knows where those came from, but it is believed to be from burning incense that may have dropped on it. And they believe that maybe the shroud was folded into forts. So somehow these incense were dropped on it and burned all the way through in the exact same pattern. When they unfolded it, we had four L's out of it. Now, again, right up to debate.

[Top Lobster]

Is that something that you. You think. Because when I. It looks indicative of being, you know, folded into fourth and then having some sort of stain, whatever happened to it, and permeate the layers.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, I personally do believe this, and there are some experts that debate this, because that's the thing. There's no record of it, how it got the burn marks. We just know it allegedly was in this place at this day and age. We have a manuscript showing the burn marks, and then boom. Honestly, whoever was the responsible party for those burns probably took that to their grave, because heaven forbid that they be the one to say they damaged the shroud of Jesus. So fair enough. Another famous painting from 1516 shows those holes again, verifying that the burn marks predate the 1532 fire from the chamber in France. So there's another painting, 1516, showing those L's but not those long burn marks. Right. Cut to the fire happens. Oh, I should also mention also the painting doesn't have the scorch mark lines. There are eight major burns that occurred from molten silver creating a geometric pattern from the fire of 1532. So how they had the thing displayed in the Chambery Cathedral in France. Big glass case, silver lined framework. And when the fire happens, some of that silver. Again, we're not talking like modern silversmithing methods. It was the best they could do. Some of it actually melted and fell onto the shroud itself, which led to other burn marks. There was some nuns that actually sewed on these triangle patterns where those silver molten marks burned. That would be those triangle patterns that we see four of them as a matter of fact, on the shroud today. Okay, real quick, is there any questions? I know I'm blaring through this information. I'm kind of going at a rapid pace.

[Top Lobster]

Well, I top. I don't know if you have anything specific, but.

[Jacob]

No, I'm, I'm trying to. I'm like streaming through the story here.

[Top Lobster]

So, so, so let's keep it going. But, but before we move on from the topic, I would like to address what the. Because everything that you're laying out here is awfully convincing. It seems like they've had this sort of paper trail for a long time. So then what in. I think it was the 80s, right, where they pretty much dismissed it. And it's like with what information did they dismiss it? Because everything that I'm hearing now is very compelling. But I don't want to derail you from, from what you're doing now. Let's just keep that on the table.

[Jonathan]

Look, before we get into any more of it, I think that, you know, the, you could say that maybe some of the compelling actually come from the Bible itself. And so I kind of want to give a little bit of reference here. I have some of the, the Bible quotes right here. And by the way, a lot of my research is done by this dude. Well, he's not a dude, he's a father. Father Andrew Dalton. He's somebody who has studied this back and forth for years. He's gone all over the world and gathered information from everybody who is just absolutely obsessed with the Shroud of Turin. And the way that he speaks about it is just. I love people who are, you know, kind of upbeat and very excited whenever they're relaying information because there are some people who just talk like this and you can't even listen to them for more than Five minutes without lulling yourself to sleep. But this guy is very upbeat. And one of the things that he likes to reference is. Is John, chapter 20, verse four through eight. And so this is in the Bible. It says both of them were running together, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first and stooping to look in, saw the linen cloths lying there. But he did not go in. So he stooped. The reason why he was stooping is because the tomb is. Is, you know, obviously from like 1st century Israel. They had a stairwell that led down towards the entryway into this cave. And so if you want to be able to get a good angle to see deep inside from where you're standing, you'd have to stoop and get low because the stairwell creates an obstacle to see inside. So he stoops and doesn't go in, but he does see from a distance. Now we get over to John, chapter 20, verses six through eight, which is very interesting. It says, then Simon Peter came following him and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths lying there and the face cloth, because there was like a face cloth also, which we'll show pictures. It's insane. But the face cloth which had been on his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded up in a place by itself. Then the other disciple who came to the tomb first went in also, and it says he saw and he believed. So he saw all of that, and instantly he was an absolute believer, if he wasn't already before that Jesus had risen.

[David Lee Corbo]

So the folding of the cloth is actually very significant to the Hebrew culture as well. Let me explain in that culture to that day and age. Now, I don't know if this is still something that permeates to today, but during that day and age, if you were a guest at a person's house and you were eating, and if you got up from the table, use the bathroom, go get something, whatever, you would leave your napkin folded on your plate. That would mean that you're not done, you're coming back. Okay? If you were done with your meal, you would just wipe your mouth, whatever, leave the napkin. Any old type of way, they'd pick it up. Jesus folded the cloth, meaning he was coming back.

[Top Lobster]

Man, that is cool. Because it sounds like to a degree, it's like, this is just a really organized dude. And it's like, no, this is not a he's coming back. I love that. That's gangster. I love that there used to be, like, whenever people you think of, like, what's a Gangster move to pull off today. And it's so sloppy in comparison the decorum that they had back in the day. Folding a napkin and everyone's looking at it like, oh, he's coming back. I love that.

[Jacob]

After they've killed you, you fold the napkin, you leave it on the table and you say like, I want more, more.

[Top Lobster]

Put a little chocolate on your pillow.

[David Lee Corbo]

Keep in mind the tomb itself now again, depends on which gospel you read. Because the gospels are written to different individual groups. There's, there's conjecture to say that that's why there's fallacies in the Bible. This story doesn't line up with this story. They omit certain details. Like, no, that's not exactly the case. One was written to the Gentiles, one was written to the Jews, one was written to the Romans. There's a reason for these things. There's significance that was put on certain factors other than or rather than others that doesn't negate those facts. It's, there's reasons for all of that. But depending on the source that you read, keep in mind, the tomb was sealed. The Romans were worried that this new messiah figure, this new cult that he was following or was following him, was going to become a problem. They actually had Roman centuries posted as guards on this tomb. They sealed it with rope and with wax. They wanted to make sure that they wouldn't steal this body to claim some sort of crazy resurrection story. This tomb didn't have any trap doors. This was a cave. The cave was owned by Jesus's uncle Joseph, Joseph of Arimathea. There's a whole backstory to that which also could be why he was buried in such a. Like I said, cheap materials but well made cloth. Okay, that was an expensive cloth. The clothes that he actually was buried or was murdered in was a double linen cloak. As a matter of fact, when it was ripped from him, the Roman guard started gambling for who would get it because it was such a high quality garment. It to say that he had a rich uncle who also footed the bill for the death tomb, that would make sense as well. So it was sealed under Roman guard. No way this guy got out without anybody seeing. When the women came, they asked the guards to roll back the tomb and it was, they go in and see this situation. The cloth is folded, he is gone. There's no explanation.

[Jonathan]

Dude, it's, it's absolutely nuts. But what's really great is, is that there's a lot of information there that you can actually learn about how they used to do things back in the day by strictly just observing some of the markings that are on this shroud. So, for example, a lot of people had always thought that Jesus, you know, he had nails driven through his hands. That's, you know, typically the picture that you'd see, it would be driven through his hands. However, the shroud itself shows that the nails were actually driven through the wrists. The reason behind that is because they found out earlier when nailing people to a cross, that the nail would slide up the hand because there is no bone there to block the nail from sliding up. Therefore, they put it through the wrist, and the bottom bone of the hand would stop the nail from sliding up, which makes a lot more sense if you're trying to keep somebody there for days.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yep.

[Top Lobster]

And they've also utilitarian.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah, yeah, they've done experiments as well. They would actually put a pedestal just below their feet, not high enough to where they could stand up and take their weight off and. And get a full breath of air, but just low enough to where they could try to extend the punishment further. And that's another thing that they have done studies on to say why it lasted so long with Jesus. They believe he did that. Also worth mentioning the whole stab wound in the ribs, why they did that and how what came out of it makes sense. Water and blood. And that's the stain that's shown on the shroud. But again. All right, all right, let's get back to it. All right, so talking about the water stains, there are numerous water stains and blood stains on the shroud. Shroud. Some of the water stains are from putting out the fire that happened in the cathedral. Others are actually from the body housed within the shroud at one point, most notably around the head and torso. Now, the head, that makes sense. Sweat, water, blood, all these things. But the torso in particular, at one particular stab wound to the ribs. Now, again, it's about how many of these victims could have been buried in this manner with these markings, with all of these things. Because there's the school of thoughts to say, okay, maybe the shroud is real to the day and age, but that doesn't mean it was Jesus's. It's like, okay, find me another crucifixion victim that fits that bill. Homie, there's not many.

[Top Lobster]

Right, right, right. You could make an argument that it seems to be that they were, you know, based off of what you're describing, fine tuning their torturing techniques. Maybe this is something that they like to do, but it seems a lot easier to just say yeah, he was a real guy.

[Jonathan]

Yeah, well, and also to even add on top of that, like, as I was saying, this Father Andrew Dalton, I mean, he gets into the specific details behind the. It is nuts. But what he says is.

[Jacob]

I'm sorry, you guys, a question to maybe like detour from the Shroud of touring really quick. The Spear of Destiny. I know that, like, so do you. Do you understand any of the supernatural properties that this thing possibly would have? Because I know Hitler was looking for it, and if it pierced Jesus, it's his last piercing that killed him. There's something to this. So do you guys know anything about that?

[David Lee Corbo]

That, yes, but also, it's not what killed Jesus. If you look at the story, he was dead. He said it was finished and the earthquake happened. The Romans stabbed him with the spear later to ensure that he was dead.

[Jacob]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[David Lee Corbo]

There's already stories about what happened with it. Was it a real thing? The Roman guard that did it, I forget his name, but apparently he like got saved in the process and this became an artifact. It gets really, really mixed up in legend and lore. Very similar to the Holy Grail. Oil, right. The cup that Jesus drank from at the Last Supper. Keep in mind, it was a bread and wine meal and it was the hand of a carpenter that was serving. Yes. It was this golden, pimped out chalice. Like, are you sure? Are you sure it wasn't like clay or wood? I. That's a lot of things where they get mixed up in the lore and the legend of it. And it. Honestly, who can say?

[Jonathan]

Right? And, and so, like, you know, kind of going back to the, to the whole question, like, how do people. All right, so there were plenty of people that were crucified back in the day. How can we so sure that this had to have been Jesus? Well, what's interesting is, is that there is only one documented case of someone dying on a cross with a crown of thorns. And the shroud indicates that Jesus was pierced on the forehead and all the way around his head. And you can see the blood marks from the plucking of his beard, the overabundances, the overabundance of lashes to his body. Only, by the way, because we said that we were going to go back to that. Those lashings. So it said that whenever you would be torturing somebody that was up on the cross, you wouldn't give them more than 40 lashes. Anything more, anything, 40 lashes or more were only fit for an animal. So you would only give a human lashings of 39. Anything more than that, it would. It would have to be an animal. He got like 400 lashes. And that was just the level of disrespect. So. So it just goes to show that not only would. That you would only give that kind of treatment to an animal, but it suggests that Jesus was especially special for this one. And that also shows up in the shroud.

[David Lee Corbo]

And you gotta keep in mind the way the Romans would torture people, take away the story of Jesus for two seconds, Roman corporal punishment, those lashings was not just the thing they did for Jesus, what they would do. As a matter of fact, have you ever seen the Passion of the Christ?

[Top Lobster]

Yes.

[David Lee Corbo]

Okay, so you remember the stake that they tied him to when they would whip him? What the Romans typically would do if it wasn't an execution, but a beating and a lesson learned or something along those lines, they would chain their hands to their feet and force them to heal in that configuration so that they would never be able to stand completely upright again. All of their muscles and skin would have to heal in that way so that they would walk the rest of their life and everyone would know what type of criminal they were. Okay, now, the whole 3908, not 40. They would just swap tools. They just went from the sticks to the cat o nine tails to the this, and they would just swap up to keep it, quote, unquote, legal. So Jesus took over 400 lashes until the point about how many crucifixion victims could this have been in this death shroud. Here's the deal. There is only one other case of a crucifixion victim getting proper ceremonial Hebrew burial. Okay, here's the reason. Typically, if you were getting crucified, you did something so bad that even Hebrew law acknowledged you to be a criminal. And they weren't going to give you some sort of honor, honorary burial. Okay, like that's not a thing. So for the other guy that did it, I forget the entire story, but he was wrongfully accused of something. It was a theft of some type. And the Romans crucified him. But his tribesmen, tribe of Judah tribesmen, gave him a proper burial. The only other example is whoever was buried in the Shroud of Tauren. And yet again, there's no other record of somebody who got that type of beating. That crown of thorns, the beard plucked. Then again, to the forgery side of things here. All right, right. This is what's going to mess y'all up. And we're going to talk about the 1988 tests that were Done on the shroud. All right, here we go through spectroscopal skinopi. Dirt was found on the feet, cheek and arm, all indicating that the soil in question comes from the roads of Jerusalem from the first century ad. Now this was contested because, oh, how can you even tell that? What about. Okay, here's the deal. Later tests from extra X ray microfluorescence and scanner electron microscopy confirmed these results. The way they did this is that the dirt was made of limestone and calcite. Now, limestone and calcite have this weird ability to leave a signature very similar to. Have y'all ever seen a flint napping? You know, like back in the day, cavemen would flint nap an arrowhead or they would flip stone knife or something. We can take that piece of chert, which is what that flint napping thing is called, and we can tell what mountain range that came from. Because certain stones leave a signature, so to speak. They're made out of the same type of materials. Matter of fact, there was a, a stone knife that was found in North Carolina, who come to find out came from a mountain in France 30, 000 years ago and they're still trying to figure that one out. But when it comes to the dirt in question on the shroud of torn through all of the electron microscopes, through all of the X ray biolumina, all of the stuff, stuff, they can confirm beyond any shadow of a doubt that the soil question in sample, soil sample in question, got that backwards, came absolutely without any shadow of any doubt from the streets of Jerusalem in the first.

[Jonathan]

Century AD and to really tie that in even more, to get a little bit more detailed, it's that it was determined that it was calcium carbonate with rem, remnants of strontium and its crystalline structure whenever looked under a microscope. It also had travertine aragonite, which according to geologists, they say that it matches the soil of the grottoes in, in Jerusalem, like a fingerprint, like that's how specific it is. And therefore there's no way that it could have been fabricated in France, like some people may suggest.

[David Lee Corbo]

Now, before we get into the image of the body on the shroud, because that's where my next notes go. Is there any questions about things thus far? Far?

[Top Lobster]

I mean, where I was going to go next was going to be what caused the image. That's actually what I have written down here. So this is, this is kind of perfect because it's like, you know, I can imagine there being some sort of an image left on a body, but. But as Pronounced as it is, it's. It's definitely unique. And I do think very often about how would that sort of an imprint be left?

[Jonathan]

Well, there is so much interesting information backing that as well. So. So there have been scientists that have been trying to figure out how to even recreate this whole shroud of turn. Right. Like they're trying to just, you know, debunk the whole idea. There's no way this is possible that this can be recreated. Well, some people suggest that it's a painting or a needling or a scorch or some kind of watercolor. But what they've discovered is, is that the depth of penetration of coloration on the shroud itself is 200 to 500 nanometers, which, to put it in spectrum, is one fifth of one thousandth of a millimeter. That's the depth of coloration on the shroud itself. And if you take a single human hair and divide it by the. Divide that width of the hair by 1/20, you have the depth of the coloration of the shroud. And on top of that, if you were to take a razor and just graze the shroud ever so lightly, you would erase the picture of the shroud forever.

[David Lee Corbo]

So here's.

[Top Lobster]

The hell is it then?

[David Lee Corbo]

I remember when I said that the threads of the shroud were 200 microns thick.

[Jacob]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

The image only permeates 2 microns. It is, but that's. So here's the deal. It is not made with dyes or paints or pigments. All scans have shown no indication or signs of this. Not only that, when you shine light directly on the shroud, the image disappears. It is only with indirect light that you can even see it in the first place. Actually, if y'all could pull up a picture of the shrouded Tauren and it in the negative, there's a lot of famous pictures of them next to each other. And I want to kind of go over all of the different discolorations we're looking at, because a lot of it has been changed. There's been some things sewn on over the years. There's been some burn marks, there's some blood stains.

[Jacob]

We're gonna go. Some people stole part of it, right?

[David Lee Corbo]

Well, not God stole it. Certain royal families cut off strips of it and gave it as gifts. Well, we're going to get to that in a minute. So I want to talk about the image on the shroud first, and then we're going to go over the history of how it got to where it is today from the tomb of Jesus to Turin, Italy. All right, so that is it in the negative. So if you look at in the positive negative. Here you go. The image that is shown is from a combination of discoloration of the fibers and blood stains, water marks and scorch marks. However, the image of the man only penetrates, like I said, the first two microns of each fiber. Fiber. All scans and tests that have shown no signs of any kind of paint or any other type of pigmentation. In fact, indirect light, like I said, is the only way that you can see the image. The position of the body is set in whatever would have been like a traditional burial position. Everybody wants to bring up rigor mortis. I've heard so many people claim that this could not be Jesus because he died in a crucifixion pose. His arms would be stuck like this forever. Right? Right. Okay, pause. To any of yalls listeners. How do you think crash victims that die in these crazy contorted positions get open casket funerals? Rigor mortis is a temporary status of a corpse. It only goes on for a couple of hours. Yeah, the body gets stiffer, but you can still manipulate it. That's what morticians do. Okay, so the rigor mortis of it and him, why aren't his arms raised? That's. That's a. That's a silly argument to make. Right, Right. We don't really see the details of the image until looked at in the negative. And this was first done in 1898. Yeah, 1898. In that photograph, the blood is the positive in that image. When we look at in the negative and we see these random white things that are just protruding and right in the middle of it, that would be the blood stains. Also worth mentioning, when you shine, or I said, the image disappears. The blood stains at the wrist and feet clearly show that this is a victim of crucifixion. And also the ribs and head, like we said, is a mixture of blood and water. Water. The blood has been analyzed to be type ab. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that Jesus Christ was a B blood type. Because after blood is left to oxidize and be slowly but surely degenerated. Unless it is A O type blood, pretty much all blood degenerates into ab. So is it possible Jesus was a B? Yes, but not a guarantee. Like I said, other crucial victim victims have been brought up, but none of them have been given a traditional burial wheel like this. And not showing all of those scourge marks. You could see it in the negative. This dude had 400 lashes. You could also see from the offset angle of them that the two people that were beating him, one of them was probably a little taller than the other. You could tell that by the direction and the force of the slashes, dude.

[Jonathan]

All right, so. And on top of that, so yeah, they, they discovered the whole, the, the negative X ray, what was it, 1898 or something like that? That. But there was a scientist in the 1930s that argued that the only way the image could have formed on the cloth is through exposure to radiation. It was this Russian scientist, his name is Alexander Belyakov, he suggested that the image could have formed through intense but short lasting exposure to light. Others have argued that the X ray or X radiation or ultraviolet rays could account for the images creation, whatever the source of the radiation might have been. The researchers unanimously agreed that the radiant source was vertical, meaning that the light had to have come from above the cloth. And then there was this Italian researcher, pretty cool. His name is Paolo De Lazaro. He stated that the radiation, which he believes to have been ultra violent, it exceeds the maximum power released by all ultraviolent sources of light available even today day. He also says that it would require pulses having durations shorter than 1/40 billionth of a second and that, and that, that in the, the intensities would have been on the order of several billion Watts during this one 40 billionth of a second. So it's crazy because it says that there is no modern technology available that can produce an image like that of the shroud of Turtle current. And so you would suggest maybe to the Christians across the world who have studied these findings, the vertical source of radiation was inarguably divine light caused by Jesus's ascension to heaven.

[David Lee Corbo]

So the cloth itself didn't have something put on it. Okay. And they didn't. It's not burn marks, it's not scorch marks that's left from the body, but they're basically saying a 3 trillion watt ultraviolet lightning bolt just went in the blink of an eye and he's gone. And that this is the image that's left. And again, when you look at the cloth, it didn't change the color, it changed the status of the material.

[Jacob]

Have you guys, have you guys ever thought about that, that kind of a phenomenon, right, where you have a light shining down, bringing something up? Sounds a lot like UFOs. That, the abduction phenomena. They'll pick up the cow, right, with this light. But it sounds way better than that technology. We, we get into nephilim, death squad that like possibly the aliens are, are fallen angels or Nephilim types and they're recreating the technology that they have. But it might be outdated technology at this point. Whereas.

[Top Lobster]

Well, what I was thinking about was, and, and I'm so this might not even be true, but there's this idea that when a sperm penetrates an egg, there is an inexplicable flash of light.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yep.

[Top Lobster]

That nobody has any reason for. Nobody can identify why this happens. Nobody identifies where it comes from.

[Jacob]

I was just telling, we were talking yesterday about like the IVF thing and Trump approving IVF for everybody. And I was studying it and I was watching. It's crazy. You can watch the sperm fly right into the egg time after time and when it implants there is like a.

[Top Lobster]

Flick of light, a flash of light. Now, now that's on a microscopic level, right? Like that's a microscopic level. What happens when life re enters the body of a full grown male?

[Jacob]

Yeah.

[Top Lobster]

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[Jonathan]

Well, if you really look into that even a little bit more as far as the, the tiny little flash of light whenever that sperm meets the egg. Egg. Other people have also done other studies trying to recreate that without the sperm in the egg. And this is where it gets wild, dude. Is that whenever you have like a, like a little droplet of water, a little droplet. Droplet of some kind of liquid that if you penetrate sound into that little droplet of water, a flash of light occurs. So it's. So you could say that, that this was. I mean, maybe the, the soul, the consciousness or whatever is almost spoken into existence.

[Top Lobster]

The word made flesh.

[Jonathan]

Exactly.

[Top Lobster]

Wow.

[Jacob]

You know, I'm a big fan of frequency. I play guitar. A big, big musician guy. And that's kind of what got me into conspiracy. When I started to. I took a class about, jeez, what's it called, like perfect pitch. And the guy was teaching you relative pitch. So he's like, if you can internalize the C note, then you can kind of predict everything that comes before and after. After. But I noticed that his voice was very like, it was almost hypnotizing. He was a fully aware of the pitch that was coming out of his mind. And that, that, that served as like a form of mind control. So from there I'm like, I'm obsessed with frequency. What can I learn about it? What is it doing? Why does it manipulate people? And then you get into the Tesla rabbit hole where he's like, if you want to understand the secrets of the universe, you have to understand vibration. Frequency and something else.

[Top Lobster]

Else.

[Jonathan]

Energy.

[Jacob]

Three important.

[Jonathan]

Energy, Frequency. Vibration.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh, I was gonna say resonance, but all right, that too.

[Top Lobster]

I mean, that's just. I think there's something there. Right? You're talking because I've heard the same thing about a, a bubble underwater. I think of a bubble pops. There's like an inexplicable flash of light surrounding that too. And there's just something. It seems to be. You know, I, I think that's why it's so important. There's something hidden in that, that we don't understand. You know, maybe you need like an alchemist to understand it, but the word made flesh, like there's something about that. If everything is, is energy, frequency and vibration and words are sound and sound is energy and vibration, then that is. There's something, there's a bridge there to light, you know? You know what I mean? There's a Bridge.

[Jacob]

That's why Jonathan reads. You read that out actively before you perform hypnosis on someone, Right.

[Jonathan]

It's like the whole induction method.

[Jacob]

Is there. Is there a way. I hate to go back to it, but is there a way that you are cadencing words or are you like hitting certain inflections? You're very aware of that at least.

[Jonathan]

Of course. Yeah, you have to. It's. It's kind of like how women like to say, it's not what you said, it's how you say it, right? Like that whole kind of thing. And that's actually really true. And then you also apply nlp, which is known as neuro linguistic program timing. So now instead of saying what you want somebody to see, you're suggesting it. And that suggestion allows them because everybody is this way. We're all a little bit rebellious in our own mind. If somebody tells you to do something, you're like, you, you go do it, right? But if somebody suggests that, like, oh, this could be the outcome if you did this, you don't have to do it. It's up to you kind of deal. You might be a little bit more open to it. So that's why the whole suggestibility really works whenever you're in a hypnotic state. And so, like, think about it like this. I always like to kind of preface it like this. So there are four stages of awakeness, right? So. Or just four stages of consciousness in general. So you have beta, which is like conversation. Right now you're fully aware there. You're, you know, where you're at. We're in beta. Like that's the brain wave state that we're currently in right now. Whenever you turn on the tv or maybe even the people that are listening to this podcast right now. Now you might fall into what is known as the alpha brave brainwave state, which is a light trance. And this is why so many people, they watch cnn, they watch Fox News, they're falling into a literal light trance. And this was proven by the way, by some scientists, I don't know, back in the 60s or 50s or something like that, where they would hook up a bunch of like brain nodes onto your head and it's monitoring all, all your brain waves, right? And they did it to like, like 50 to 100 people just to try and test this theory out, out. And what they did was they made all of those people sit down on a couch and watch a tv. There wasn't a single person that had these brain nodes hooked up to their head that could watch that TV. For more than 60 seconds without falling into the alpha state of mind or a light trance. So you're literally being hypnotized at times when you don't even know you're being hypnotized. And so. So that's the alpha and that's just a light trance. It's not like you're full on MK Ultra or anything like that, but you're suggestible at that point. Point.

[David Lee Corbo]

You have a child. Have you ever had a kid? You're they're watching Paw Patrol or something like that. They leave the room, and then you realize your ass is watching Paw Patrol. They. You're the only one in the room. Why are you doing that? Because you, without knowing it, fell into a light trance as human minds are one to do whenever the television's on.

[Jacob]

I'm very aware of that. Like my. I have two kids. So, like, it's. They're watching the. And sometimes, like, I'm watching from outside perspective because I'm trying not to fall into that brainwave pattern.

[Top Lobster]

Pattern.

[Jacob]

But I'm like, what are they doing? I'm also a graphic designer, so I'm paying attention. What are they doing? Oh, there's a scene change every three seconds. Especially with the 3D stuff. The way that it's like curved and lighted and rendered, I'm like, there is some trickery going on here that children can't look past. It's hard for me, and I work in the field, but I still sort of see it.

[Jonathan]

You know, there's a reason why I will not let my children watch Coco Melon.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Jonathan]

Yeah. On there is absolutely bad. I don't even know what the concept of the show is. I just know the. The ingredients that go into it. And it's all about that flicker rate. And the reason why they have that such extreme flicker rate is because they know that the more frames that they can put in to their show is only lulling you into a deeper form of hypnosis. So I believe that there's like three or five frames per second in that. In that cartoon or whatever. Right.

[David Lee Corbo]

They change scenes every. Like, I've clocked it. The longest I. I could see for one picture was six seconds to a whole another one. Swapped it to a whole another one. And at first I was thinking, okay, that's just keeping the child's attention. I understand that. But then it's like, wait a minute. They're keeping the child's attention engineeredly. And I have a problem with that.

[Top Lobster]

And it's not just that they're keeping the attention. It's like what you used to do was train a child's attention span to be able to pay attention to long, meaningful stories, right? With like, morality and ethics and all these different things. Things. Now you instead, what you've done is you just put a cast on their attention span and you're ensuring that they're never going to have to develop one beyond eight seconds worth of a loop. Because everything that they're watching, everything they're being fed is being catered to the, the mind of a child. And as they develop, their mind is not going to develop.

[Jacob]

It's a plot against podcasting. I'm telling you, man, that's exactly this beautiful information for our children. They're like, I can't pay attention for longer than 30 seconds.

[Top Lobster]

These guys suck. It's not chaotic enough. You know what, as I'm. The more we do this podcast, the more I'm. I'm realizing the importance of your words, right? Because if you can lull people into a sort of trance with your words and you can alter their, their brain waves so that they're in beta now, they're in alpha, they're in a flow state, they're in a conversation state, Whatever the case may be, it really rings true then, the sentiments of actually who we're going to be talking to shortly, Ed Mabry, who does our, our Book of Revelation series with us, and he says that the way to engage in spiritual warfare is with speech. And it's like if we're being subjected constantly to spiritual warfare, whether or not we're actually aware of it, and the, the way to combat or to fight back or defend ourselves is with our words, then we should probably be extra careful and pick the things that we say and the, and the places that our attention goes. You know, it's like that is the subtleties of spiritual warfare. You think that it is, you know, always going to be sleep paralysis or always something that looks like an alien abduction phenomenon, or always some sort of demon. No, it's the things that you give your attention to, the things that you say, the, the, the, the words that you put out into the world that's engaging in spiritual warfare.

[Jonathan]

Well, words are symbols. And although a lot of people don't want to agree with that, or they might just say, ah, okay, symbols, whatever. Whenever you look up at that McDonald's sign, whenever you're passing in on the freeway, you're not just seeing a giant M with a red bar at the bottom in your mind, when you see that symbol you're thinking of McNuggies. You know what I'm saying? You're thinking of those delicious fries, a Big Mac, a double cheeseburger, maybe a. Like, a fudge sundae or something like that. So it incorporates so much information into that tiny, just M symbol. And they know this, and. And also, like, even bringing it to, like, a political realm. We talked, like, at, like, extent, like, talking about the. Oh, what is it called? Project Mockingbird.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Jonathan]

And so you.

[Top Lobster]

You.

[Jonathan]

You're even still seeing it today. Whenever you. You. You hear anybody talk about Kamala Harris, for example, they always. Somebody said. And somebody. Somebody said this thing talking about how joyful she is, or she's so full of joy. Right, right. Somebody saw that, and they were like, you know what? That's good, and we're gonna run with that. And everybody started saying it.

[Top Lobster]

You can you notice what it was a couple of weeks ago? It was weird. Anybody who's. It's weird. That's so weird. It's like a bunch of, like, boomers on TV saying, like, that's weird. That's weird behavior. It's like this is literally being engineered. It's Mockingbird media.

[Jonathan]

But yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so then you saw a hundred different, you know, news analysts or news anchors or whatever, just. Just constantly repeat the same old thing. It's. It's full of joy. And what they're doing right there is that they're building the symbol of Kamala. They're trying to encompass literally the word joy. Whenever you think of Kamala Harris instantly goes, she's so full of joy. That's who I want to vote for.

[David Lee Corbo]

Never mind how crazy it is drunk.

[Jacob]

I had told my friend Clint, this dude Clint of Liberty, lockdown. He's, like, big in the. The political commentary space. And I was talking with them on my other show, and I was just like, I can see why people vote for Kamala. And he's like, I can't see it at all. I don't understand. I'm like, no, there is, like, an impressionability, and I know people who will be impressionable to what they're feeding and why they would like her. Like, not necessarily, like, as, like, a human emotion, but superficial, right? Like, this thing. Like, oh, I like this. And then they.

[Top Lobster]

They're telling you what it is. It's like when I talk to my niece. My niece is 20 years old. I say said after the, you know, Trump assassination attempt, whatever the hell that was, I go, I think this dude's got it in the bag. I think he's gonna win. She goes, really? I think Kamala's gonna win. And I looked over and I said, really? And you realize you run in, like, two different circles. And she's 20 years old. She's attached to Tick Tock, and Tick Tock is creating the narrative. They're. They're building this character. They are, to your point, Jonathan, they're creating a symbol, and they're, you know, engineering all these different word associations with this symbol.

[David Lee Corbo]

And.

[Top Lobster]

And right now, you know, there's a. There's a whole generation of Gen Z kids that are going, yeah, I guess she's gonna win. She's the winner. Right?

[David Lee Corbo]

Thank you, ccp.

[Jonathan]

And regarding that whole symbolism, you know, you. It makes you think, like, all right, well, how far does it actually go as far as the occult, like, kind of nature with this, because you're essentially casting spells. But, all right, well, what also can you do within black magic that all that has to pertain to, like, casting spells? And so you also dive into sacrifice, right? And the whole idea of. Of sacrificing something is so that you can reap the benefits from said sacrifice. And there was very. There was a very strange anomaly that we actually found, like, live on one of our shows. We were very curious, you know, so I'm a huge wrestling dork. I love watching wrestling. I have ever since I was a little kid. It's just kind of something that stuck with me. But I remember whenever I was a little kid that there was this old wrestler. His name was Kamal. Kamala. It was like this Samoan kind of guy or whatever, right? His name was Kamala. And strangely enough, two months before Joe Biden announced that Kamala Harris was his running mate, the old wrestler Kamala dies. And you're like, oh, what a coincidence, Right? Well, then we go and do a little bit more digging on as far as this whole. All right, the wrestler Kamala dying, whatever. It's kind of crazy, but, you know, it's up for whatever you think. Think you go and find out what. What Kamala the wrestler's last name was. Yeah, Last name is Harris. Dude, you have Kamala Harris dying two months before she is deemed our vice president for the next four years and possibly our president for the future.

[Jacob]

And look at how he looks, too. He's. Is he a good representation of her? I suppose.

[Top Lobster]

Isn't he top. Can you go to the images? I believe he has, like, the top hat. He does a papa legba, sort of an imagery. I. I think. I know. He's like the Voodoo guy. Maybe he's not. Maybe.

[Jacob]

No, no, no, no. Shango.

[Top Lobster]

Oh, that was the guy that did that, did Papa Legba thing.

[Jacob]

This dude is just other kind of voodoo.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, the other kind of voodoo. So I mean, you know, this, this brings me to what we say all the time, which is like, at the highest levels, politics is theater, but more specifically, it's. It's politics entertainment, it's sports entertainment. It's. It's wrestling. Wrestling. That's what it.

[David Lee Corbo]

Very.

[Top Lobster]

It's fun. It's a lot of fun. But that's what it looks like from, from my point of view. But I don't want to deviate too much because we only have you guys for about 15 more minutes. And I just kind of wanted to go back to. Because here we are, right 2024, all of a sudden we get hit with these findings that the, the, the Shroud does in fact date back to roughly 2, 000 years ago. And then we have a very strange follow up to that, which is AI then generating an image of, of Jesus Christ based off of its analysis of the Shroud, which I am, on one hand, I'm happy about that information. I go, that's really cool, man. Because when you hear that, especially as a conspiracy theorist or a Christian, you go, this is awesome. You know, this is. I can't wait to look into this. And I love that this is gonna be part of the conversation again. But then all of a sudden, on the other hand, you have AI generating an image of Christ, which is very strange. So let's bring it into modern day 2024. And, and what are your thoughts on this? This, the fact that it was dated, and then maybe we can get into this AI thing a little bit.

[Jonathan]

Well, first, before we even get into that, I kind of want to go over just a short little part as far as the information that was given out back in 1988, whenever they went to go test it. So there were three laboratories that tried to do carbon dating on this shroud back in 1988. And those three laboratories were in Arizona, Zurich or Zurich and Oxford. They didn't give, give their, their individual findings, which is very interesting. They didn't give their individual findings. They, they averaged their findings together and they came to the conclusion that the, that the Shroud must have been made between the span of years between 1260 and 1390.

[David Lee Corbo]

So for that.

[Jonathan]

Right, right. And so what really happened is, is that the, the Arizona slide. So there's like a bunch of slides looking under a microscope at this thing and stuff like that. But the Arizona slide, slide one got a date of about 1240, while slide two got an average date of about 1440. So there's 200 years in between, literally 2cm of cloth that they're looking at. And as you move from left to right on the shroud, it goes from older to younger in this. In the space of just a few centimeters. And it's also, it's guessed that the sample of the shroud that they were given was a combination of the 1st century material along with the 16th century material, because it kept on having to get rewoven every time it would get flooded, every time it would get burned, every time there was a incense burning or something like that, they kept on trying to preserve it by adding new material to it. And so this is why there's such a wide range of possible outcome. But then you get into, all right, the, the blood, the dirt, and everything that goes along with drawing all the way back to the alleged time of this actually being during Jesus's time. And I don't know, it's.

[David Lee Corbo]

With that carbon dating, keep in mind, 1988, carbon dating was still a very new science. And there's. It's getting better every day, but it's. It wasn't an exact science back then, either. The Shroud of Tauren is the most heavily scrutinized and analyzed artifact on Earth to date, period. More than any sarcophagus, more than any tomb. The Shroud of Torn has been scientifically analyzed more than them, by leaps and boundaries bounds. Okay? But the shroud itself, the sample that was sent to Arizona came from near a burnt part. Now, they didn't know if that would affect the carbon dating or not, because their thought was, why would it? You mean the spot that had fire which leaves carbon would dictate a little difference on the carbon dating of the artifact. It's wild. So it was discovered through trial and error that the only way we can get accurate carbon dating of a sample is if we know the whereabouts of the sample for the entire time from the time it was left to the time we analyze it. Point being, let's say we find some sort of fossilic remains and it has been underground for this long, and we could say beyond a reasonable doubt that it's so far in the soil we know it's this old. Then we compare that to carbon dating analytics and we can go from there. Now, if you found a sample near a volcano, your guess is as good as mine, because the amount of carbon that's just Going to be all over that. Right? But now the Shroud itself. So before we get out of here, I do want to make a mention of how it got from the tomb to tour in Italy. And it will kind of give a little more credence as to how some of these dates and how some of these times kind of got lost to the records and why it is so quote unquote, controversial. All right, so this is a compilation of what personally I believe is the most likely chain of events. There are a few offshoots that certain professionals say, but the most professionals go along this train of thought that I'm saying now. Now, okay, it was made from Jesus in the tomb and it was brought to Antioch in 70 A.D. antioch is kind of where the newly formed. They wouldn't have called themselves Christians, but that group kind of based their headquarters out of Antioch. In 540, when the city was about to be besieged, the patriarch of the Church of Antioch sent the Shroud to Constantinople. The city was sieged. Then after interesting fact, the Church was the only building not not burned to the ground in Antioch in that siege. Cut to five. That was 5:40 when it was sent to Constantinople. However, it didn't make it there. Originally 554ad that's 14 years later, the shroud appeared in Camuliana first time that a shroud with an image on it is historically mentioned. Okay. Kamuliana, 554 AD now in 574 it gets to Constantinople and it started to become worshiped. Worshipped on. On a board, as a matter of fact, in the city mentioned in a letter from the French knight Robert Declare, who participated in the siege of Constantinople. We'll get to that in a second. Mentioned it being praised as a holy relic. They took the shroud and they put it on this big board. They laid it out and it was on this mechanism that every Friday afternoon it would be raised up and the entire city would worship it as a sign of Jesus. And Good Friday being died and crucified rose again. They worshiped it for years as a relic. The entire city. City. Okay. Now, we don't know for a fact if this was the Shroud of Torn, but we do know that Constantinople was worshiping a cloth that came from Antioch that there's claims to say that it was the Shroud. Okay. The Shroud was taken by French knights during the siege of Constantinople during the fourth Crusade. This, the elites of the city even wrote a letter of complaint to the Pope where they mentioned, quote, the French took the most holy image of Christ. End quote. That was in 1204, when the city was sieged. Yes. The Crusades didn't in fact siege a Christian city. And if you look at the Crusaders and what they did, they kind of did that a lot. They were making their way to Jerusalem, lost their gumption, settled on Constantinople and decided to siege it. The Venetian hires went after the gold. The French hires went after religious relics. Cut to the next time we hear of a Shroud is in the village of Leary, France, and it is owned by a knight of the name of Joffrey de Charney. This is in 1349, claiming that it was freely given to his family. Who's to say or not, but that's about a hundred and twenty ish. 140 ish years after it was last seen in Constantinople in 1204. Then in 1453, Margot de Charney, that would be one of his descendants, deeded the Shroud to the House of Savoy. That's the Italian royal house. She gave it to them for two castles. She literally sold the Shroud of Torrent to the Italian royal family for two castles. The Catholic Church is pretty pissed about this and actually excommunicated her for that. It's also worth mentioning here that this is pretty much the last place that we know of it for sure. 1578, Emmanuel Filibert, Duke of Savoy, ordered the shall the Shroud be brought to Turin, where it has remained ever since. During this time, the Italian royal family of Savoy fell out of power. Like I said, or I'm sorry, they started cutting off shreds of it it and giving it to people as royal gifts.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

A royal decree from the House of Savoy. Thank you for attending our party. Here's a piece of the holy holiest of relics that we currently have. You know, no big deal. The House of Savoy fell out of power in 14. I'm sorry, 1946, after World War II. But in 1983, the royal family of Savoy, who was still alive but out of power, gave it as a gift to the Holy See. And they have had ownership of it since 1983, but they still keep it in the Cathedral of St John the Bapt in torn Italy, where it has remained to this day. And you can go and see it for yourself.

[Top Lobster]

All right, I, I have, I know we're late in the game for this question, and if it's okay to tell me, no way, we don't have enough time for that.

[David Lee Corbo]

But your time constraints, brother, we got.

[Top Lobster]

I know, I, I, well, I'm saying if you know it's going to take more than seven minutes. But.

[Jacob]

Dave, Dave, Dave. Imagine going to an Eyes Wide Shut party and receiving a shrouded, torn little thing.

[Top Lobster]

Honestly, I'd be pumped. I'd be like, this is. This is how you treat your guests. I'm not gonna lie. So when we have this image and, you know, we don't really have to get into it too much, but AI does generate an image of Christ based off of the shroud. And, you know, it looks very similar to images that have kind of garnered Christian veneration for a long time now. But when it comes to this idea that the modern visage of Christ is actually that of Caesar Borgia, which is, you know, that that kind of hurts a lot of feelings when you hear that. But I'm open to the idea certainly, that at some point the image has been twisted and that we've been venerating the. The, you know, some dude's son somewhere. But then all of a sudden, you look at the shroud and you go, well, it does maintain a lot of these features.

[David Lee Corbo]

So let me ask you this. Do you remember a couple years back when they took the Egyptian queen, Cleopatra, and they took her skeletal remains and they made an AI image of that, and she came out to be a white girl that looked like Britney Spears and the Internet lost their.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah.

[David Lee Corbo]

Then they didn't realize that Cleopatra was part of the Ptolemaic dynasty. She was white. Her cousin had red hair. We have.

[Jacob]

She wasn't a king. Come on.

[David Lee Corbo]

Oh, wait a minute. Egyptians aren't traditionally black. That's crazy. That comes from Sub Saharan Africa. Wild. But like, hey, I'm. I'm an for that, I guess. I don't know.

[Top Lobster]

No, racist.

[David Lee Corbo]

To your point, we have been seeing this image of Jesus, white guy with blue eyes and these curly locks. And that's been the image that was clearly a Borgia.

[Jonathan]

Well, and also going on top of that, too, is that you see, throughout the years, and this could be argued, it's just my own kind of understanding, which is why. Why I don't really claim a religion. I just like to garner, you know, the, The. The spiritual aspects of it. But. And so one weird thing is, is that somebody speculated that the, the reason why his name was changed to Jesus Christ, and you start to see, you know, pictures of Caesar Borgia that was probably, what was it, Michelangelo's boyfriend or something like that.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right.

[Jonathan]

And you start to see that through, like, magic in the occult, that you can essentially incorporate the energy of somebody in the past, you know, We. We had done an episode not that long ago about how Saddam Hussein really believed that he was the reincarnation of King Nebuchadnezzar.

[David Lee Corbo]

Right?

[Jonathan]

And so you're essentially. You're trying to take on that energy by claiming, look, I'm the reincarnation of that. So you're developing that thought process. It's a weird, like, subconscious kind of thing that you can have, you know, different personalities enter into you. Some may call that schizophrenia. But that being said, you would try and take on maybe the certain powers. And some have speculated that. That the whole reason why maybe Jesus's name changed from Yeshua to Jesus to Jesus Christ specifically is because the. The. Of. Of the old boy who was king during a certain period. Right? And that's where it gets into Julius Caesar, the JC right there. So it. I'm not saying that Julius Caesar was trying to incorporate the energy of Jesus Christ and have all the people of all the land worship him as though he is maybe the reincarnation. It's just a speculative thought. But, you know, some people will always say, like, LeBron James always calling himself the king. He's. He's always calling himself the greatest of all time. Like, you think of, like, these terms that we give everybody that. These are symbols. These are. These are things that you can assign to that person's character to. So now whenever you think of LeBron, you think, oh, King James. Oh, you mean King James that wrote the Bible. And so these things, they start to stack up on top of each other in the subconscious mind.

[David Lee Corbo]

I'm gonna say this, though. If you ever see an image of Jesus and he's white, that's an incorrect image. I'm sorry. He was a Jew. He was from Nazareth. Big nose, curly hair, sucked at sports. That's him. That's the guy. That's the dude. He was a carpenter before power tools. Your boy was, like, yoked. But not, like, hitting the gym yoked. I'm talking, like, workable weight yoked. Like that. That was a guy. He was your boy.

[Jacob]

You know, we had incredible grip strength. Strength. Let me know.

[Top Lobster]

He did.

[David Lee Corbo]

Yeah.

[Jacob]

Have you guys. Have you guys ever heard of the work of Dr. Jerry Marzinski?

[Jonathan]

No?

[Jacob]

Okay. That's an interesting rabbit hole that I think you guys should go down where he. He's a licensed psychotherapist, but he doesn't think schizophrenia is a mental disorder or hallucinations. He thinks it's actually entities. And you had mentioned that, like, just before, just briefly. And I'm like, oh, they would Get a kick out of all of his work work if you guys.

[Top Lobster]

Yeah, we should pass along his, his information because I think you guys would have a lot of fun with him.

[Jonathan]

Hell yeah, I would love that.

[Top Lobster]

Well, look guys, this is, this is where we landed you guys. Absolutely crushed. Thank you so much for your time. Before we get out of here, can you just once again let everybody know where they can find Cult of Conspiracy?

[Jonathan]

Yeah. So we're on. We're available all podcast platforms everywhere, Apple, Spotify, wherever you're listening to podcasts, you'll be able to just search Cult of Conspiracy and we will be there there if you're interested in our video. Unfortunately, we got canned from YouTube so long ago many, many times that now I am no longer able to even recreate a YouTube channel because I believe that they're probably tracking my IP address at this point. Yeah. So we have decided to move all of our video over to Patreon and rockfin and if you're interested in checking that out, it's, it's in the show notes of all of our shows. But it's patreon.com cult of conspiracypodcast or rockfin.com cult of conspiracy and yeah, we, we like to have a great time over there. Every Tuesday night we go live with all of our cult members on the third eye all the way open tier. As a matter of fact, just this past Tuesday we, we hosted the presidential debate and we kind of were all watching it and tuning in every so often and, and it's just always a great time and it helps support the show big time. And yeah, definitely come check us out. We are hitting on a wide range of all conspiracies and all different philosophies. It's always a great time. So we appreciate you guys having us on here. Dude, this was a blast.

[David Lee Corbo]

Also, if you like metaphysical things and you like hearing about things with the third eye all the way open, go check out Jonathan spin off on meta mysteries also on all listening platforms where he gets all into the ethereal, the magical, the, the off the beaten path type of information. And also Cajun Knight on YouTube. That is my new spin off where I'm going to be covering geopolitics, boo hurt and night fighting and I think I might do some religious content later on. I'm not sure to what level, but go check me out on that. It just launched, it's in the opening phases. But I appreciate all the subscribes and.

[Jonathan]

The love as far as, and as far as like socials. We're really the most active on Instagram. You can just find us over there at Cult of Conspiracy Podcast.

[Jacob]

You guys aren't on Twitter at all.

[David Lee Corbo]

I. We have one. I'm in charge of it and I suck at it. So be more active. I literally just quit my job two weeks ago, so to do this full time because we finally got to that point. So we are gonna get so many more wheels rolling here in the next few weeks.

[Jacob]

But get on.

[David Lee Corbo]

All right, now. It sucks.

[Jacob]

Get your Twitter. Get your Twitter up. I have like a decent following on there. So, like, I try to help people like that are for some reason Instagram game, very strong. Twitter, they're not paying attention. But honestly, that's where the dialogue is going on. So I'm. Yeah, hit me up, man. I'd love to. I'll put notifications on retweet. You get your stuff out there, dude.

[Top Lobster]

Guys, wait. Real quick. Let's just do a quick announcement. When it comes to Bohemian Grove, guys, don't forget to go to brogrove.com. come to Summerfield, Florida, October 25th through the 26th at the Joke joint. You'll see Leonardo Joni performing Stand up Comedy. Tower Gang's gonna be there. Nephilim Death Squad, the one on one podcast. Thomas the paranoid American Josie, the redheaded libertarian Jay Dyer is gonna be there. It's gonna be awesome. It's a two day event. Them. It's all conspiracy comedy and politics. If you want your tickets, go to brogrove.com and get them before they sell out because they are moving fast. So. And we're closing in October. October 25th through the 26th.

[Jacob]

All right, Dave, stop grifting. They gotta go see you.

[Top Lobster]

All right, all right. Peace.

[David Lee Corbo]

The greatest hypnotist on planet Earth is a oblong box in the corner of the room. It is constantly telling us what to believe is real. It's mutant perspective waiting that what they see with their eyes is what there is to see. Because they'll laugh in the face of an explanation that portrays the bigger picture of what's happening. And they have.