Feature: The Lonesome Hearts Column with NPR’s Code Switch (plus an announcement!)

Summary

Our Ancestors Were Messy: Feature – The Lonesome Hearts Column with NPR’s Code Switch
Episode Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Nichole Hill
Guests: Gene Demby and B.A. Parker (NPR’s Code Switch)

Episode Overview

This lively episode blends Black history, pop culture, and humor as Nichole Hill, host of "Our Ancestors Were Messy," joins Code Switch’s Gene Demby and B.A. Parker to excavate Black love and social life in pre-Civil Rights Era America. Drawing from archival Black newspapers, the discussion dives into the dramas and desires found in 1930s singles columns—America’s analog dating apps—and what these stories reveal about Black life, longing, and resilience under Jim Crow.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Announcements and Episode Context

• Nichole announces that Season 2 of "Our Ancestors Were Messy" is in production, thanks to community support.
• Listeners are promised a few special episodes before the new season, starting with this crossover recorded with Code Switch in 2024.
  • “Thanks to the day ones and the new members, I can say that I will be back with another season... in 2026.” (00:56)

2. On Black Love Stories—Personal and Historical

• The segment opens with each host sharing their “oldest love stories”:
  • Parker recalls her grandparents meeting as teens in a North Carolina potato field (04:26).
    • “I just imagine them both with like big sacks and just putting potatoes in them and then looking at each other.” – B.A. Parker (04:50)
  • Gene cites his formative fictional romance: Dwayne Wayne and Whitley Gilbert from "A Different World" (05:19).
    • “He breaks up their wedding, they run off together... As a grown up who has done some healing—no. But as a 10 or 11 year old? Yes, absolutely.” – Gene Demby (05:53)
• Nichole shares that her family loves classic romances but laments the absence of Black characters, spurring her deep dive into Black newspapers (03:11–04:01).

3. Archival Black Newspapers as Social Media

• Nichole details the dual role of Black newspapers: advocating for justice and serving community interests with gossip, poems, and love advice.
  • “Sometimes to get people to drink their medicine, you want to give them a little bit of sugar... so they would publish gossip, love poems... when they're tired of reading about the struggle.” – Nichole Hill (06:42)
  • The Washington Afro American, less “serious” than contemporaries, is singled out for its enthusiasm for drama and social coverage (06:31–07:53).

4. Dating and Thirst Traps, 1937 Style

• 1930s “thirst traps” were mostly for men, showcasing employment and stability rather than looks.
  • “This is how they were trying to lay traps for women back in the day. It was a lot of like, girl, I got a job. The end.” – Nichole Hill (08:27)
  • Modern dating complaints echo those from archival stories—parental advice, generational gaps, and societal expectations (08:55–10:32).

5. The Changing Landscape of Black Love

• Exploration of what falling in love meant for Black Americans in 1937, a period when marrying for love—not just security—became possible for more people:
  • “By 1937, Black people are in the midst of the great migration... we're introducing this idea of... find a person who sets your soul on fire.” – Nichole Hill (09:55)
• Social and political context:
  • Life expectancy was short (men: 58, women: 62); urgency colored life choices (11:02–11:11).
  • Black voters had shifted to supporting FDR and the Democratic party (11:18).
  • Pop culture touchstones included television’s debut, Shirley Temple, Billie Holiday, Duke Ellington, and Black culture hubs like DC’s U Street (“Black Broadway”) and Howard University (11:40–12:22).

6. Finding a Match: The Lonesome Hearts Column

• Nichole presents the Lonesome Hearts column—analogous to dating apps—in the Washington Afro American.
• Parker describes the kind of man she’d seek in 1937 (tall, kind farmer or partner who “likes art... doesn’t have to understand it,” 14:41–15:14).
• Entries from real 1937 singles are read aloud and evaluated for their appeal and subtext:
  • Brown Eyes: Seeking an athletic, college-educated man. Noted for high expectations given the historical context.
    • “She wants all of the things.” – Gene Demby (18:11)
  • Smiling Peggy: Seeking “nice gentlemen... color doesn’t matter” (though “color” is restricted to “light or brown skin” in practice).
    • Colorism is openly discussed: “There’s no mention of dark skin... my people are left out.” – Nichole Hill (19:54)
• The trio jokes about the similarities between then and now, with societal biases and preference patterns continuing (20:07–20:12).

7. Matchmaking for Parker

• Nichole and Gene campaign for different bachelors from the column:
  • Ex-Mailman (Nichole’s pick, 21:36): Once stable, now down on his luck, hoping for a successful partner.
    • Parker: “Pass.”—rejects the baggage and potential drama (22:28).
  • Eastman, the Farmer (Gene’s pick, 22:39): Older widower, stable, astrology-inclined.
    • Parker immediately connects, citing his Aries sign: “Oh, my God. That's my moon sign.” (23:39)
    • Discussion of practical concerns: inheritance, lack of children, proximity to DC (24:05–24:44).
  • Artist Dantar (Nichole's second pick, 25:23): Performer, seeking a widow.
    • Parker notes the exclusivity: “I could wait out for my Nat King Cole.” (26:37)
  • Homer the Barber (Gene’s second pick, 27:36): Old-fashioned, steady job, church-going.
    • Parker is wary of potentially restrictive values (28:12–28:39).
• Parker settles (enthusiastically) on Eastman as her “forever boo,” culminating in a Hallmark movie fantasy about farm life, independence, and astrology (29:06–30:44).

8. Reflections on Black Aspiration and Imagination

• Nichole marvels at the ambitions and versatility of Black Americans post-slavery, as found in these papers:
  • “They're imagining what being Black could be. And they're trying on a lot of different identities... There’s so much to be said about the beauty of everyday life and in particular, what fascinates me about this time...” (31:00–32:16)
• Gene sums it up: “We are our ancestors’ wildest dreams.” (32:22)

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Memorable Quotes

• On why this historical investigation matters:
  “I love to read these papers and… see them, imagine what Black life could be. I never imagined that they were dreaming so big.”
  — Nichole Hill (31:00)

• Code Switch humor on generational dating values:
  “Old fashioned in 1937 is like 1901. So that's Victorian vibes, you know?”
  — Nichole Hill (28:12)

• On colorism in dating columns:
  “Nobody mentions dark skin... my people are left out.”
  — Nichole Hill (19:59)

• On matching Parker with a potential 1937 soulmate:
  “He’s an Aries. Oh, my God. That’s my moon sign.”
  — B.A. Parker (23:39)

• Gene’s modern context punchline:
  “All that means to me is that you’re a 30something woman who lives in Brooklyn.”
  — Gene Demby (30:57)

• Historical resonance:
  “We are our ancestors’ wildest dreams.”
  — Gene Demby (32:22)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Season 2 Announcement & Context: 00:00–02:43
• Hosts Introductions & “Oldest Love Stories” Exchange: 04:24–06:13
• Archival Black Press as Community Social Media: 06:31–08:04
• 1930s Dating Culture, Thirst Traps, and Social Context: 08:04–12:22
• Parker’s 1937 Dating Persona & Preferences: 13:27–15:14
• Reading and Debating Lonesome Hearts Column Entries: 16:13–24:44
• Parker Reflects on Suitors, Modern Parallels & Final Choice: 24:50–30:44
• Nichole’s Closing Reflections on Black Aspiration: 31:00–32:16
• Final Reflection (“Ancestors’ wildest dreams”): 32:16–32:23

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Tone & Style

The conversation is warm, playful, and incisive, fusing historical rigor with modern pop-culture sensibility and Black humor throughout. The hosts balance academic insight with relatable banter, highlighting history’s continuities and the lives of everyday Black Americans.

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Summary

This special crossover captures the unfiltered, “messy” richness of Black social life, love, and aspiration—then and now. By revisiting 1930s Black newspaper singles ads, the trio finds that while the stakes and language may change, the search for connection—and the societal messiness that shapes it—is timeless. For both history nerds and hopeless romantics, the episode is a masterclass in storytelling, research, and reflection on Black life beyond trauma, centering joy, longing, humor, and possibility.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, it's Nicole Hill, host and creator of Our Ancestors Were Messy here with two updates. Update number one, I'll just get right to it. Season two is in the works. You told your friends about the show. They listened and left comments and reviews and sent so many encouraging emails and DMs, a lot of them telling me what kind of black they are, which I think is very funny. And they and you joined the household over the summer. This community of donors just grew and grew and now I have so much more help covering the cost of production and research and all these archival subscriptions that I have to have now. We're still an indie production. It's still lean and mean after our day jobs we grind type beat, you know. But thanks to the day ones and the new members, I can say that I will be back with another season of Our Ancestors were messy in 2026. If you would like to join the household and support this independent production and access director's commentary for episodes, bonus episodes, even if you're interested in those, you can go to our ancestors were messy.supercast.com the link is also in the show notes and for updates and information about the show, you can follow Our Ancestors Were Messy on Instagram. All right, update number two. I am going to put out a couple episodes before I release season two, starting right now. This is one I did back in 2024 with the team at NPR's Code Switch. The show's hosts, Gene Demby and B.A. parker, who are amazing, invited me on to talk about the black press and their society and gossip coverage. And I asked if I could just like real quick, like in a casual way, take them through a 1937 singles column and see if Gene and I could find Parker a date. You know, normal interview stuff. And they said they were down. So that's what we did and that's what you'll hear. You will also hear this version of me that had spent a couple years pitching Our Ancestors Were Messy to studios and being rejected because the whole like black history and comedy and sound design, it's a tough sell. So the Nicole that you're going to hear, she's really excited that anybody cares about this topic, but she is a little deflated and she has no idea that as she speaks she's already been accepted into the Tribeca Festival. You can hear all about that journey on Minisode 4, but for now, I hope you enjoy this episode and our talk and can appreciate the fact that there is nothing new under the sun. More soon.

[B]

She is her Name is Nicole Hill

[A]

and I am a storyteller. I primarily tell stories in audio.

[B]

Nicole tells stories about everyday regular degular black and brown folks who are looking for belonging people trying to make sense of their places in the world. She does that on her show the Secret Adventures of Black People. And most recently she did that for Tracee Ellis Ross series I Am America.

[C]

And Nicole loves love.

[A]

I grew up in a family of women who love Pride and Prejudice. We love like old black and white movies from the 30s, from the 40s, from the. I love it. She said, come Christmas time, it's Hallmark movies, period. I want to see all the Christmas tree farmers, get all the big city women to leave their high pressure job and come help them raise their child. I don't care. I'm a feminist. I know it's backwards. It doesn't matter.

[B]

But as much as she loved those movies, she noticed that there were hardly ever any black folks in them. So at a certain point, she started looking for distinctly black love stories. And what she found was a treasure trove. Thousands upon thousands of these archival black newspapers. And they were filled with personal ads from black people trying to find love. And those papers went all the way back to the 1890s.

[C]

And Nicole very graciously agreed to share with us some of what she learned from reading hundreds and hundreds of articles from these old newspapers about what black love looked like in the past and what that can teach us about how we should understand our present. And she got into all of that by asking us a very intriguing question.

[A]

What's the oldest love story?

[C]

You know, I mean, the oldest love story I know is probably my grandparents because they think of the 1930s in North Carolina. They met as teenagers in a potato field.

[A]

Romantic, sultry, really hot.

[B]

It's probably literally sultry.

[A]

Sweaty, they're tired. Your eyes meet across the. What does a potato field look like?

[C]

I just imagine them both with like big sacks and just putting potatoes in them and then looking at each other.

[A]

From across the field, their eyes meet. Which grandparent do you think made the first move?

[C]

Oh, my grandpa for sure.

[B]

Think he said something about her, like her bushel or something like that. Like, damn, Ma, I'm not up on the.

[C]

This is. It's like hearing my grandpa Roy right now. Wait, Gene, what's yours?

[B]

So the most important formative love story for me involves fictional Hillman University.

[C]

Or was it Hillman College?

[B]

I'm talking about a different world, y'.

[C]

All.

[B]

I'm talking about a different world. Dwayne Wayne and Whitley Gilbert Having this on again, off again thing. And so Whitley, Whitley Gilbert was supposed to marry this dude who's running for Senate. His name is Byron. Anyway, they're getting married, is this really dramatic wedding. And Dwayne interrupts the wedding and he's like, baby, please.

[A]

Please.

[C]

I do. Please, baby, please, baby, please.

[B]

Please, baby, please. He breaks up their wedding, they run off together. I guess the idea is that you're supposed to live happily ever after, but obviously that's ridiculous. Now, as a grown up. As a grown up who has done some healing. No, but, but as a, as a 10 or 11 year old. Yes, yes, absolutely.

[C]

So two very different kinds of love stories. But, Nicole, you've been reading about hundreds of different kinds of love stories in your research, going through old black newspapers. Can you talk about some of what you've learned?

[A]

So one of my favorite papers that I found is the Washington Afro American, which is a subsidiary of the Baltimore Afro American, which still exists today.

[C]

Yes, it does.

[A]

What I really love about it is, of course they're covering all the national and international news headlines, all the important things. But the thing that's unique about them is, you know, all the black papers around the country, primarily the Chicago Defender and the Pittsburgh Courier, are really focused on the fight, on helping black people to gain their independence, to organize politically and socially and fight for justice. But people are people. And so, you know, sometimes to get people to drink their medicine, you want to give them a little bit of sugar. And so what the papers would do is they would publish gossip, they would publish love poems. They would publish little things that the public might like, you know, when they're tired of reading about the struggle. Now, papers like the Defender and the Courier were hesitant to do those things. The Washington Afro American, they were like, let's go. Give us all the drama, give us all the gossip. We will run this right after we do, you know, your important stuff and go vote, do all of that, but then also flip to the back page and find out who's getting divorced.

[B]

Come for the drama and the solutions to all the tea, and stay for

[C]

the breakdown of the New Deal.

[B]

Exactly right.

[A]

Essentially, these newspapers were like Instagram updates back in the day. And they're talking about love, love, love. We're talking love poems, love scandals, advice on how to find love, advice on how to get out of love and people searching for it.

[C]

I need that now.

[B]

What did a thirst trap look like in the 1930s? I'm curious.

[C]

Jeans.

[A]

Okay, so this was. No, they had them. They had them. Don't Even worry about it. They were there. Only ever women, though, of course, patriarchy. So it's a lot of bathing suit pics, just women at the beach or a beauty contest. Well, this was the thirst. This is how they were trying to lay traps for women back in the day. It was a lot of like, girl, I got a job. The end.

[B]

You know what?

[C]

You know what? That sometimes that still works now.

[A]

So when I'm reading these papers, what was really interesting to me is, you know, we talk so much about how dating is really hard now. Our parents give us advice on, you should do this. It's like you don't understand the context in which we're living in. But I'm reading these papers and I'm seeing, like, you know, what if people in 1937 are talking to their parents? Their parents were the first generation of people to ever be born free in America. They're not having a good time. Not everybody. I don't want to paint a broad brush, but so many, the overwhelming majority are just figuring out how to be free in America. And their love stories are coming during the tail end of the. Of this kind of Victorian era. Like, we're gonna get together for economics because it's socially acceptable, you know, kind of like a more rigid form of love. And then their grandparents were enslaved, and their love stories, they're. I mean, they're hard to even know if they shared them at all. And so what they would have imagined for themselves when it came to love may have been pretty limited. But by 1937, black people are in the midst of the great migration. Cities are urbanizing. The 20s have happened, and so there's been this introduction of companionate love, this idea that you shouldn't get married because of some, like, stodgy, religious. I mean, of course that still exists, but we're introducing this idea of you should find a person who sets your soul on fire, who makes you feel complete and whole, and you should run off with them. You should be with them forever. You should marry for love.

[C]

A word.

[A]

This is a new concept. Exactly. I know, right? But it's new. And what it means is we're no longer kind of looking over at whoever, the next door neighbor and just considering them. We're maybe moving to a new city and looking out at everybody and wanting to go on dates and see how we are. We vibing. Do I feel connected or am I bored?

[C]

But tell us about the social and political life back then. What was going on?

[A]

Okay, so it's 1937. That's the year we're gonna focus in on, okay, life expectancy. For men, it's about 58 years. For women, 62.

[C]

Hot dog.

[A]

So it's like you gotta get in there and do it. You gotta live your life right now, not a lot of time.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

FDR is the president. Black people have voted en masse for him. And we've actually been voting Democrat for the past 10 years after having left the Republican Party. Or I guess you could say they

[B]

left us another way. We're breaking from our parents at the time, right?

[A]

Mm, that's exactly right. Outside of politics, I'm gonna tell you about pop culture. I'm gonna tell you what people are getting into for fun.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So 1937, there's this new thing that was introduced at the World Fair in it is called television.

[C]

Hot dog.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

People are saying it's gonna be huge. The most famous person in America is probably Shirley Temple.

[C]

Right?

[A]

On the biggest book, the Hobbit by JRR Tolkien that just came out.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Your big pop stars, the top of the charts, Billie Holiday and Duke Ellington. Oh, taste. Exactly. We're living in that time. And there's a really, really popular dance. It's called the Big Apple Dance. White people have stolen it from black people.

[B]

Same as it ever was.

[A]

It's the same. And then if you're living in the cities, you are going out. That is what it is about. It is about hanging out with your friends, hanging out at church, hanging out with colleagues, having fun. It's this idea that you could go to cities in the north that were still segregated but had black communities. You know, like a city like DC, let's say, which has the highest concentration of black people in the nation. You have Howard University. And Howard University is the capstone of Negro education in America. And so all these people, the doctors and the lawyers and the great thinkers of that day are going to Howard. And then they're settling all around U Street, which they called Black Broadway at that time. And so you get there and you're seeing 200 black owned shops and businesses. I think it would be kind of fun to see if maybe Gene and Parker, or maybe one of you, both of you, I don't know your situation, but to see if you could find somebody that you would maybe write to in 1937 to go on another date with.

[C]

Never make that sound again, Jean.

[B]

I'm off the market.

[C]

I am a perpetually single black woman in America who is looking for love in 1937. I feel like I would crush it. In 1937, I feel like.

[B]

Would you.

[C]

I would do great. Are you kidding me? With my skill sets?

[A]

Okay, what are your skill sets? I love this attitude.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I can't cook.

[B]

Okay, that's probably a hard way.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I can. I can kind of clean, but I also have a rumba.

[B]

Can you, like, sew?

[C]

I can darn, like, socks and stuff.

[A]

Okay, that's helpful. That's helpful.

[C]

But, like, if you need, like, a dissertation on Titus Andronicus or you want to know about Vincent Minnelli's film techniques when he made Hallelujah, I'm that Girl, and I'm here. And I'm sure there's a nice, sensible black man at that time who would love to hear these things while I spend his money.

[A]

Okay, and what kind of a man is Parker looking for both today and 1937, or if they're different?

[C]

Well, present day, I find, you know, just tall, big dudes who cry a lot and listen to speed metal. But if you go back in time, like, you know, I would love a nice farmer. Just a kind man. Funny, he could be taller than me. He doesn't have to be. I know I'm kind of tall. Likes art. Doesn't have to understand it, but at least enjoys it. Just like a nice partner.

[B]

Nice.

[C]

And, you know, then you're gonna sell a wine.

[B]

Nice is so nebulous.

[A]

That's not so much to ask, is it?

[C]

Nice. Non. Misogynistic. For that time.

[A]

Okay. He's like, adjusted for the time.

[C]

Adjusted for the time.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, I'm gonna introduce you to the Lonesome Hearts column, which is essentially. These are the apps of 1937.

[C]

Hot dog.

[A]

It's on page 18 of your local paper in D.C. the Washington Afro American. And the editor is a man named Albertine Ash.

[B]

Albertine.

[C]

It sounds like a chemical. Ashbertine.

[B]

Vaguely cancerous, vaguely carcinogenic.

[A]

Okay, so he runs this column. He's been running it for years, and he's got some specific instructions. Okay, this is what Albert said. He said, this column is for sincere lonely hearts. Please do not write flowery language and fictitious names. Lonely hearts are not to be played with.

[B]

All right, now.

[C]

All right, Mr. Ashe, I feel like

[B]

that is definitely like, a Motown lyric.

[A]

I think it's a good idea to check out the competition to get a sense of what they're saying. So these are the women who are writing. And under the column that says, husbands wanted.

[C]

Husbands wanted. Not even, like, you know, boyfriend to see.

[A]

Once again, not even boo things. Well, this is the Thing. He's naming the column Husbands Wanted. People are saying they're open. All right, okay, so we're reading in between lines here.

[C]

Modern individuals.

[A]

I'm gonna read you this letter signed brown eyes.

[C]

Hello.

[A]

Mm. To the Lonesome Hearts editor. I am 19, light brown, 5ft 6 inches tall, black hair with a medium length wavy bob, play piano, like to keep house like children, and am considered quite good looking and charming. My father left me a legacy which I can't receive until I marry. I suppose he thought I would run through it uselessly alone, but I will share it with the man that I consider for marriage. I could never marry my present boyfriend for reasons untold.

[B]

All right, I want to know what those reasons untold might be.

[A]

So I want some tall, handsome, neat, lovable, brown skinned man between 25 and 30 to write and send me a picture of himself and credentials. He must be a college man with a good disposition, clean, not drink excessively industrious, and know how and when to invest. He must be a real he man of athletic build, but not under 6ft, brown eyes,

[B]

first of all, not he man. I mean, we talk about 1937, you know, the Depression is still kind of like, you know, maybe waning, but it's still happening. Like people ain't getting enough nutrition.

[C]

You know what, Brown Eyes, I understand. I get where she coming from.

[B]

I mean, I'm not saying she. Her standards are too high. I'm just saying like, wow, she wants all of the things.

[C]

All right, Steve Harvey.

[B]

I'm not saying she should lower her standards. I'm just saying and maybe in D.C. you know?

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

It might be easier to find a college educated dude.

[A]

Nir Howard, she's like, let's go.

[C]

I feel like she's narrowing the playing field.

[B]

Pre Civil Rights act, something like 4% of black people had college degrees. So I mean, I'm just saying maybe education in particular might be a thing that might be like a high threshold across.

[C]

I gotcha.

[A]

Okay, Jean, you have just one more column. Just to give you a sense, a feel for what the ladies are asking of the men.

[B]

Yes. So, okay, this one is from someone named Smiling Peggy. To the lonesome Hearts editor. I would love to meet some nice gentlemen, plural, between the ages of 24 and 29, employed, lover of church and movies. All good clean fun and color doesn't matter. I am brown skinned, considered nice looking by my friends. Five foot five, weigh 156 pounds, high school graduate, regularly employed, not interested in any man who has been married. I Will answer all letters promptly and give a fuller description of myself. That's your composition.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Peggy, she likes movies just like you.

[C]

Movies, Church. A man with sense. And a job.

[A]

And a job.

[B]

I feel like you and Peggy are looking for something closer to the same thing.

[C]

You mean a more rational version of a man than what Brown eyes was looking for?

[B]

Listen, brown eyes ask for everything.

[A]

All right? So you got the lay of the land. You got a feel for it. Now, I should say when people say color doesn't matter, what they mean because we are in 1937 is it doesn't matter if you're light skinned or you're dark skinned or you're brown. Well, no, there's no mention of dark skin. They mean light skin or brown skin. Nobody mentions dark skin.

[C]

These colorist people.

[A]

I know, my people are left out. Everybody just says color doesn't matter.

[B]

And we are, for those of y' all can't see this, we are all dark brown.

[A]

All of the three of us chocolaty

[C]

people out here fighting for our love every day.

[A]

Even back then.

[B]

Even back then. Even back then.

[A]

Especially back then.

[B]

Oh, my gosh.

[A]

Gene and I have both made selections for you.

[C]

All right, Gene, you better have done right by me.

[B]

I'm trying to always try to do right by you, Pocket.

[C]

All right, Nicole. Nicole. I don't really know you, but I trust you, Gene. I know you. And you gonna do me dirty.

[B]

I'm not gonna do you dirty. I promise. Again.

[A]

And I am like a producer on a reality show. So who knows what I would do

[B]

she wants the most. She wants chaos. She wants drama.

[C]

Ah, Potster. Okay. All right. Okay.

[A]

Okay. I'm ready. Let's go. Let's take turns. We'll go one and one. So Jean, I'll go first. I'll share my first one.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Okay. Parker, please meet bachelor number one. To the lonesome hearts editor. Ex mailman who went wrong Desires the friendship of a broad minded and successful woman between the ages of 25 and 55. I am at present employed on the WPA but expect better very soon. I am 39, light brown, 5ft 4 inches. Weigh 165 pounds with a dignified appearance. I once owned my own home and car. I am affectionate and will try to be a good husband. Was in government service 14 years before real estate investment as well as others caused my downfall. Ex mailman.

[C]

Ex moment. I mean, I was with you, but I feel like that's gonna be some evenings of hearing that a lot.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

What do you mean?

[C]

I'm just being like, they tried to take me down. The opps tried to destroy me.

[A]

The ops.

[C]

I'm gonna have to hide my money in a loose brick in the living room and all of a sudden it's gonna go missing because he got a.

[B]

And promise I'll do right. I'll make it right. I'm gonna bring it right.

[A]

He's gonna be like, I promise, I promise. I just need the right woman to turn it around. Between the ages of 25 and 55,

[C]

he's like, it don't matter. It don't matter.

[A]

A broad minded and successful woman. Now you are successful. And he would love it if you had already achieved some of that success and you would just bring it on home to him.

[C]

Mm. Pass.

[B]

Pass

[A]

hard.

[C]

I just typed it. Pass.

[A]

As an agent of chaos. That's fine. All right, Gene, you're up.

[B]

Okay. To the lonesome hearts editor. I'm a widower. My wife has been dead nearly four years. I own my home, a farm and six room house. I'm getting old.

[C]

Wait, is he old? I'm sorry,

[B]

I'm getting old. But I'm not too old to take care of an honest and kind woman who is strictly a one man woman. As I'm a one woman man. I'm an April born man. And if you don't mind, please give me your birth month. No harm in giving out our birth dates. As the only thing under the sun that makes a good man. A good woman is a good principle. Signed Eastman. Just before you say, I'm just curious if Parker. Do you understand? Do you have any idea why I thought that person might be a good match for you?

[C]

Because, you know, I'm an astrology girl.

[A]

Oh, my God, you kid me.

[B]

See, I was trying to.

[A]

I told you. I was trying to be right by you.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I feel like.

[C]

And he's an Aries. Oh, my God, that's my. That's my moon sign.

[B]

I was like, I feel like y' all be on the same page.

[C]

Oh, my God. So he's. He's got a job, he's got a farm, he's got a six bedroom house. He's getting older, so he might get gone soon so I can get that house.

[B]

And that's also, to Nicole's point, like older. And that time, if you live in a 58, older could be like 30, you know what I'm saying?

[A]

Like halfway through this journey, he'll work through it.

[C]

And he did not mention kids. That's right.

[A]

Oh, that's right. He didn't.

[C]

Oh, I could make this work. Oh, a nice, kind, Aries older man

[B]

with a big house.

[C]

Like, his life together. He's. I mean, he's. He's up there right now.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

We're working through it. Like, I mean, rip to wife number one, but I might be wife number two.

[B]

I mean, she might have been like, a Libra or something, like, you know what I mean? Like, that's probably why we don't know what happens to her. Exactly. That's one vote for Eastman.

[C]

Okay, Eastman, we can make it work.

[A]

All right, next up to the lonesome hearts editor. I am an artist, 43, dark brown skin, 5ft, 8 inches, weigh 185 pounds, neat, with black curly hair, and have been in show business over 15 years. Owned my home in the west, and I expect to go back as soon as my contracts here expire. My wife is dead, and I have a young son. I would like to meet a refined. Oh, wait,

[C]

what's the problem now?

[A]

Just know that people say what they want, but everybody, you know, we have to be flexible with our asks. So I would like to meet a refined widow, 40 to 45.

[C]

I can't. I'm sorry. I'm not in my 40s and I'm not a widow.

[A]

Yeah, but this is what he's saying. He, you know, we can't just rule people out. Like, he's saying, best case scenario, a widow. But he might be open. Let's see. Let's see if you'd still be willing to write to him. One who can appreciate a nice home with pleasing surroundings. I am willing to marry if I can find the right type, but she must be that type girl, or you will be wasting your paper. Color and looks mean nothing. Character is what counts with me, artist Dantar.

[B]

All right, okay, so quick question. Why do you think he's specifically asking for a widow?

[C]

Maybe she got money.

[A]

I feel like that could be part of it. The stigma attached to a woman who is 40 or 45 and has never been married might be because he's asked for a refined widow. So that also seems to be code of, like, I would like you to have a little bit of money, a little bit of class.

[C]

It's very specific. And I feel like I could wait out for my Nat King Cole. Like, I don't need. I can wait this out. I don't know about him.

[A]

Okay. All right then, Gene.

[B]

All right. Got one more for you, though, before you make up your mind, Parker, about who your forever fool's gonna be okay. To the lonesome hearts editor. I'm 36 years old, brown skin, weigh 138.5 pounds. That's very specific. Barber by trade, a stage steady worker and a church man. Do not drink or gamble. I would like to get in touch with some refined girl who is looking for a one woman man for a husband. Color doesn't matter. What I want is happiness at home. I would indeed appreciate a wife. One whose ways and ideas are similar to mine. I'm quiet old fashioned myself. I desire one who enjoys the same things I do as movies, radio, reading and church. Her height, 5'3 to 6. 6ft Weight 120. Age does not matter. We'll exchange photos. Signed, Homer.

[C]

I do like the name Homer.

[B]

It's such a old Tommy. Wow.

[C]

All right, we got 36 year old barber. He likes church, he likes movies, radio.

[B]

And a barber back then, like, would have been like a pillar of the community, right? Yeah, like he would have been.

[C]

There you go.

[B]

Connected, you know?

[C]

Okay, so Homer said that he was old fashioned. What do we think that means? He seems very traditional. I don't know if he would love the independence that I see.

[A]

Right. Because old fashioned in 1937 is like 1901. So that's Victorian vibes, you know?

[C]

Like I saw Parker talking to some man on the corner. And what were you doing talking to him? Like, I was buying groceries.

[B]

I can't believe they letting these women read these things.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Like that would be. You're right, that would be the. Or like she went out and she didn't have gloves on her hands. People could see her dirty hands, like she's tempting men, you know?

[C]

Oh, he's gonna tear my books in half.

[B]

No wife of mine is gonna be reading this filthy, tearing book.

[C]

But it's James Joyce,

[B]

Langston Hughes. What do we know about these negroes? What.

[A]

What kind of weird ideas is he

[B]

trying to put in your head?

[C]

I'm just thinking about, okay, at Eastman's house, I could turn one of those bedrooms into like an office in a library.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

You could knock down a wall. You got.

[A]

You could absolutely knock down a wall.

[C]

The options are endless.

[A]

And a farm style house that's so popular right now.

[C]

Oh, my God. HGTV would be on me if they knew.

[A]

What do you know about farm life?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[C]

And I spent my summers as a kid on a farm.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

You know, I've seen livestock get chopped. You know what I mean? Like, I know some of the ins and outs. I would have to learn. But. Oh, my God. We have made a Hallmark movie for me in my relationship with Eastman. Oh, my God.

[A]

Okay, so it sounds like you've made your final decision.

[C]

I feel like I. I mean, Eastman, I could take him or leave him. He seems well adjusted for the time. He could be a partner.

[B]

He's an Aries.

[C]

He's an Aries.

[A]

Very important.

[C]

So he's an independent thinker.

[A]

And as an equality, you already know,

[C]

as an Aquarius, I already am. I know you know the vibes. And I as a convivial isolationist, someone who loves people but also prefers to be by herself. Being on a farm with my man.

[B]

Best case scenario.

[C]

Best case scenario. And I'm not that far from D.C. if he's sending letters to the paper. I. I can see the vision. Gene. This is the most kudos I will ever give you. You did good. You did good.

[B]

This is the most. I mean, I found you a forever boo.

[C]

You found me a forever boo? You found me a farmer who's into astrology. That is like a top tier idea. I want that now.

[B]

All that means to me is that you're a 30something woman who lives in Brooklyn.

[A]

That's all that means. You're not wrong. There's so much to be said about the beauty of everyday life and in particular, what fascinates me about this time. About the people who came right after slavery, who were born free. This first and second and third generations. They're imagining what being black could be. And they're trying on a lot of different identities. They're trying real estate, investments. Maybe they're failing. They're becoming farmers and businessmen and trying out traveling. There's a lot of people. The papers, especially in Chicago, would tell stories. They'd send their correspondence around the world and they would just write back stories of this is what life looks like in London. Did you know there are black people in Italy? And people are wondering, could a black person travel? Could a black person be a writer? Some of these papers publish short fiction. I love to read these papers and. And see them, imagine what black life could be. I never imagined that they were dreaming so big. I think my picture is just that they're suffering, but they're imagining so much for us and we're living that now. And that's what I really love about visiting the past in this way.

[B]

Are you saying that I'm gonna hate myself for saying this?

[A]

Do it. Are you saying. I know, I know. Go ahead.

[B]

We are our ancestors.

[A]

Wildest dream, Gene. There it is.

[B]

Nicole Hill. Is a storyteller who hosts the podcast the Secret Adventures of Black People. Nicole, thank you for coming on. This was so much fun.

[A]

Thank you for having me. I'm sorry that I didn't find you a better boo.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

It's all right. This was an absolute delight. I've learned a lot. And I've learned not to underestimate Gene or the stars. And that's our show. You can follow us on Instagram prcodeswitch. If email is more your thing, ours is codeswitchpr.org and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter. You can do [e-mail] codeswitchnewsletter and subscribe to the podcast on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[B]

And we just want to give a quick shout out to our Code Switch plus listeners. We appreciate y' all and thank you for being subscribers. When you subscribe to Code Switch plus, it means you get to listen to all of our episodes without sponsor breaks. And it also helps support our show. So if you rock with us, if you like our work, please consider signing [e-mail] this episode was produced by Jess Kung.

[C]

It was edited by Leah Donnella. Our engineer was Maggie Luthar. And a big shout out to the rest of the Code Switch massive. Christina Kala, Xavier Lopez, Dalia Murtada, Veerland Williams and loy Lizaraga. I'm B.A.

[B]

parker. I'm Gene Demby. Be my valentine, Be easy.

[C]

Share a glass and hydrate. God.

[B]

Ooh. Some of these people ain't black.

[A]

Okay, I know. I threw some in.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

So this is J.

[B]

Don't give too much away. I'm sorry.

[A]

Sorry.

[C]

So it is like the BLK app after all.

[B]

Have you been on the app for real?

[C]

Yeah. It's all of a sudden a random ass white man is in the mix, and I'm like, where did Mike come from?