I Don't Know

Summary

RISK! – “I Don’t Know” (July 7, 2026)
Guest Host: John Nelson

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Episode Overview

This special episode of RISK! departs from the usual format, with guest host John Nelson (of "Some Assembly Required" and "Radio Retrofit") at the helm. The episode weaves together true stories of coming of age, faith, family, and uncertainty—centered on the theme of embracing the unknown. These stories, drawn from the RISK! archive and others, offer poignant, funny, and sometimes awkward glimpses into growing up with, or questioning, religious and parental authority. Nelson’s connective narration ties the pieces together with reflection and warmth, as he explores the value of saying “I don’t know.”

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Power of Not Knowing

• Opens with John Nelson reflecting on his agnosticism
  • “An agnostic’s just an atheist with an open mind and an honest person.” (04:33)
  • Nelson highlights how childhood religiosity gave way to humble questioning as an adult.
  • He discusses how “I don’t know” became a mantra for honesty, in opposition to misinformation.
  • Memorable moment: He pokes gentle fun at himself:
    • “Three little words. Three or four, actually. Because don’t's a contraction. So you can see I am wrong all the time.” (06:55)

2. Jana Fisher – "The Gift of Tongues" (Evangelical Sleepover Story)

• [10:47–16:15]
  • Fisher recounts a childhood defined by evangelical fervor, close friendships, and religious anxiety.
  • Her friend group debates whether different rituals—like speaking in tongues—are required for salvation, fueling jealousy and insecurity.
  • Fisher describes succumbing to peer pressure, imitating speaking in tongues, and questioning her own faith.
  • The episode ends with the sobering intrusion of an adult—Haley’s mom—who pulls the girls out of their spiritual frenzy.
  • Notable quote:
    • “With all these different definitions of salvation, how are we supposed to know we’re saved at all?” – Jana Fisher (12:44)
  • Fisher’s retrospective honesty restores her sense of self, but costs her some friendships.
  • Memorable moment:
    • “If I made sobs out loud it started to sound like something—Is that tongues? Thought maybe this is the moment I’m open enough to God to be saved for real.” (14:36)

3. John Nelson – Reflections on Faith and Parental Legacy

• [16:15–21:14 | Interludes throughout]
  • Nelson shares an old religious joke about salvation and denominations.
  • Explores how inherited beliefs and desire for parental approval shaped his own religious identity.
  • Emphasizes the dangers of moral or intellectual superiority rooted in certainty.
  • Reflects on wanting children to learn from parental experience—and the humility required when they don't.
  • Notable quote:
    • “Religious people... are no better than artificial intelligence, gathering basic facts and theories online to half-ass a weak guess and present it as fact without even a proper introduction.” (18:53)
  • On his own father:
    • “My faith was very much an extension of his—born out of love for my dad. That’s what I see now, looking back.” (28:18)

4. Jesse Bradley Amore – "Object Lesson" (Condemned to Learn)

• [23:01–28:09]
  • Amore tells a hilarious, slightly mortifying story of his mother teaching him to use a condom using an NYPD nightstick as a prop.
  • The vivid demonstration is both practical and designed to ensure he doesn’t repeat her mistakes as a teenage parent.
  • Fast-forward: as a 17-year-old, Amore successfully remembers the lesson during his first sexual experience.
  • The next morning, his mother intuits what happened and proudly high-fives him for using protection.
  • Notable quote:
    • “My mother looks at me dead in the eye and goes, don’t think you’re ever gonna be this big.” (24:07)
  • Memorable moment:
    • “That is how I don’t become a grandmother too soon.” (25:11)
    • The honesty and pride in a parent-child high five after “the talk” is both funny and touching.

5. John Nelson – Family, Faith, and False Starts

• [28:09–34:16]
  • Nelson intersperses his own family history: his father’s dramatic conversion to (and from) ministry, the complexities of chasing conviction, and the echoes on his own life.
  • He discusses how parent and child identity, faith, and love are intertwined, often messily.
  • Notable quote:
    • “Because faith. Because faith.” (30:26)
  • Ultimately, Nelson stresses the search for a sense of belonging and the humility of not having the answers.

6. Stephen Harder – "Highly Recommended" (Divine Voicemail?)

• [34:16–38:06]
  • Harder relates a comically supernatural-seeming story: after Bible college, he applies for internships and gets an interview call from a “Michael” at First Baptist—a huge church.
  • When he arrives, nobody named Michael works there; confusion mounts, with both Harder and the staffer half-suspecting a divine sign (Archangel Michael?).
  • The punchline: he later learns his dad mixed up church names—his interview was with a “Michael” at a completely different (smaller) church.
  • Notable quote:
    • “In this very moment, we are silently asking ourselves the exact same question: is this actually happening? Did the archangel Michael from the Book of Daniel set up this interview for me on God’s behalf?” (36:00)
  • The story lands on the uncertainties (and mundane explanations) that can masquerade as miracles.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “An agnostic’s just an atheist with an open mind and an honest person.” – John Nelson (04:33)
• “With all these different definitions of salvation, how are we supposed to know we’re saved at all?” – Jana Fisher (12:44)
• “My mother looks at me dead in the eye and goes, don’t think you’re ever gonna be this big.” – Jesse Bradley Amore (24:07)
• “Because faith. Because faith.” – John Nelson (30:26)
• “Is this actually happening? Did the archangel Michael from the Book of Daniel set up this interview for me on God’s behalf?” – Stephen Harder (36:00)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:01] Preview of stories (“My mother looks at me dead in the eye…”; “Is that tongues?”; “An agnostic’s just an atheist with an open mind.”)
• [04:33] John Nelson’s introduction; philosophy of “I Don’t Know”
• [10:47] Jana Fisher – “The Gift of Tongues” (evangelical childhood sleepover tale)
• [16:15] Religious joke & parental faith anxieties
• [21:14] Reflections on parents projecting beliefs/values
• [23:01] Jesse Bradley Amore – “Object Lesson” (condom demonstration)
• [28:09] John Nelson – Family faith history & self-reflection
• [34:16] Stephen Harder – “Highly Recommended” (heavenly phone call misfire)
• [38:06] John Nelson’s outro and gratitude
• [39:16] Credits and episode close by Kevin Allison

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Tone and Flow

• The episode is grounded, warm, and introspective, with moments of sincere humor and self-deprecation.
• Guest stories are delivered in authentic, sometimes irreverent language, keeping faith and doubt accessible and relatable.
• John Nelson’s narration bridges tales with personal reflections, all circling back to the core theme: finding humility, connection, and even comfort in not having all the answers.

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Closing Thought

This unique episode of RISK! invites listeners to revisit (or perhaps embrace) uncertainty—not just in spirituality or family, but in all aspects of life. Through stories funny, awkward, and poignant, it suggests there’s power and peace in saying, simply, “I don’t know.”

Transcript

[Kevin Allison]

Evening.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car. I'll be moving in.

[John Nelson]

Let's get started.

[Jana Fisher]

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.

[Stephen Harder]

You what?

[Jana Fisher]

Yeah, Great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it.

[Kevin Allison]

So there's no.

[Jana Fisher]

No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

I guess I'll let myself out.

[Kevin Allison]

Congratulations.

[John Nelson]

I mean it.

[Jana Fisher]

Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return policy at

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

Carvana.com Heat up your fourth at the home Depot with our wide variety of grills under $300.

[John Nelson]

And make every gathering one to remember.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

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[John Nelson]

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[Jesse Bradley Amore]

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[John Nelson]

to invite friends and family over to

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

kick off the party.

[John Nelson]

Start celebrating.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

With low prices guaranteed at the Home

[John Nelson]

Depot, prices may vary by store.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Exclusions apply.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

See homedepot.com pricematch for details.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi, it's me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, in case you haven't heard. And I don't know how that's possible, you're obviously not seeing my Instagram stories, but I have a podcast. I know, I know, I know. I didn't think there was enough podcasts, especially podcasts hosted by actors. So here I am. It's called Dinner's on Me, and it's actually pretty special to me. It combines two things that I absolutely love. Eating and connecting with people. So in each episode, I take an old friend or a new friend out to a fabulous meal. And as we break bread, we dive into everything from imposter syndrome and mental health to being a new parent and navigating new relationships. It's fun because you truly get to be a fly on the wall for some really intimate conversations. So please, pull up a chair, join us. You can listen to Dinners on me wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kevin Allison]

On this episode of Risk, you'll hear,

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

my mother looks at me dead in the eye and goes, don't think you're ever gonna be this bit.

[Kevin Allison]

And you'll hear, is that tongues?

[John Nelson]

And you'll hear, an agnostic's just an atheist with an open mind.

[Kevin Allison]

But this time, you'll only hear a little bit of me. Kevin Allison on the show, where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare. Okay, folks, this is DJ Freddy Fresh behind me now. And Freddy Fresh is someone you might be familiar with from the show. Some assembly required, which is Hosted by John Nelson, who is a friend of Risk, going all the way back 25 years ago, John Nelson started that show, Some Assembly Required, which celebrates audio weirdness, all kinds of sound collage, and crazy mashups. I became obsessed with Some Assembly Required when I started risk in 2009, and I was always borrowing stuff from John. And so we became podcasters who admire each other's work over the years. But John has also since gone on to produce a show called Radio Retrofit, a kind of homage to fictional radio stations of yore brought to life. It's another something you just kind of have to hear to comprehend. And recently, John reached out to us about producing something specifically for Risk, and we said sure, and sent him a few little nuggets of stories that were sent to us by Risk listeners over the years, just waiting for a home. I sometimes label stories with a question mark to say, what should we do with this? So over the course of the rest of the episode, you'll hear how three of those little nuggets finally did find their home. So here is John Nelson with an episode he made just for Risk called I Don't Know.

[John Nelson]

Good morning. Welcome to this edition of a story maybe best, maybe, maybe left untold, maybe produced here for Risk in the summer of 26. I'm John Nelson. And who am I exactly? Well, I'm nobody really, but I can talk and I can tell a story. Well, I'm a radio producer first, I guess. Well, first, I'm a dad first and foremost. That's my priority. But I do produce radio and I listen to Risk. And I've recently taken my desire to tell stories and my goal of producing a perzine into a few hours of radio, which finally did share some of the real life stories which I've been writing since I was little on the radio. And it's been fun, it's been life affirming, and sometimes that's really all you need to be focusing on. And lately it's been feeling real important. Have you been feeling that? More important than ever somehow. So I reached out to my favorite storytelling podcast and one of my heroes, frankly. Sorry, Kevin Allison, I hope that's not too over the top. Just to see if they'd want to use me this episode, and to my great surprise, they said okay. And I am so honored. You honestly just have no idea. I'm so pleased to be here and looking through the options, the as yet untold stories to potentially present this episode. It started to feel kind of important to stick to subjects I Sort of knew ones more familiar to me than not just to keep it real. And what I found myself drawn to were these young religious stories, sort of parent adjacent, which was kind of a surprise because I don't know, I don't see myself that way so much these days. But I was a religious kid. But I've long identified as an adult as a fierce agnostic, really. Just unreasonably tethered to the belief that I have no idea. None whatsoever. Not really. And an agnostic's just an atheist with an open mind and an honest person. An honest person, that's right. The truth is, yes siree, Bob, you are an honest man, Mr. Nelson. I can't help it if I'm an honest person. You got your faith on the one hand, and then there's the truth, whatever that may be. That's how I've been looking at it anyway. I have a lot of reverence for those three little words.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

[John Nelson]

And I. I don't know. I'm not smart enough. I'm really just not. That's not even three words, I'm just realizing. So my big positioning statement just proved my point. Three little words. Three or four, actually. Because don't's a contraction of do and not. So you can see I am wrong all of the time. And my pet peeve these days is misinformation, hands down. So I am not going to try and tell you what's up. Not at all. But I sure would have when I was young. Yes, for sure I would have. And I was a good kid too. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus here, I'm just saying. But I was the kid who would follow his cousin cousins around and just make sure everything was on the up and up, you know. And as long as everyone was behaving, I would participate. And at Grandma's house on my mom's side, which is where all this religious business originated, when family got together for the holidays, me and the cousins would disappear down to the basement to rehearse puppet shows to put on for our parents upstairs. Or we'd set something up, one thing or another, for them to come down and take a little tour of, you know, with great pomp and circumstance and great showmanship. We were kids, you know. And on these two consecutive Christmas Eves, Christmas Eve services were concocted by my cousins and I for just down at the bottom of the stairs. And that's where I imagine this first story taking place, the one I'm supposedly leading up to here. It's a tale of a sleepover. And don't sleepovers usually take place in sleeping bags in a basement somewhere? See, I'm on track. We're getting there. And that's where we lived when the parents were all upstairs conversing or cooking or wrapping presents for the next morning at Christmas time in the basement. We'd brought the dining room chairs down from the kitchen, I remember, and footstools for the little ones and set everything up theater style for pews in front of the old couch down there. And I'd constructed an altar of old milk crates covered over with beach towels, orange and yellow. They had a lot of old milk crates for some reason, and Grandpa had once been a mustard salesman. So our altar was sponsored by this company in a sense, the logo inescapable and bright reds and yellows on the towels. But now he was a summer camp superintendent and flashlights were in abundance. So two flashlights, flicked on, pointed straight up into the rafters from this makeshift altar where they stood balanced like candles with an open Bible just in between. And my cousins and my little brother planned out an invocation or the processional or whatever it's called. And the songs we'd sing. We planned out a whole service that way. I imagine I steered them away from the likes of Rudolph and Frosty towards something more churchy like Away in a Manger, probably Silent Night. So there were hymns softly sung as the worshipers took their seats. And I took it upon myself, or was tasked with the responsibility one to write and deliver a sermon. This was when I was in the first grade. At least 10 family members arranged themselves around these makeshift accommodations and listened to a seven year old's thoughts on their holy book, the Bible, numerous and paper thin as they were, I'm sure. And then we all sang some Christmas carols and retired upstairs to the main floor of my grandparents very modest home there in the woods where they lived the years they served as superintendents of the Christian summer camp. Their little church ran up there in the Missouri hills.

[Kevin Allison]

That's my name.

[John Nelson]

Here's Jana Fisher and she can top that.

[Jana Fisher]

I was raised evangelical Christian, which most of the time made me feel superior to everyone, but sometimes gave me this complex that if I didn't believe exactly the right things I would go to he double hockey sticks. So I tried to be like the best Christian possible. And by the time I was 11 I had created this tight little Christian friend group with my best friends Molly and Haley. Molly was a goody two shoes and glasses who went to church with me. Haley, because her parents could afford to buy her clothes from Delia's. She was almost one of the popular kids at school. But I was such a good Christian that I had convinced her to come to church with us, too. The newest addition to our friend group was Mallory. Mallory was Pentecostal, which meant her church practiced speaking in tongues. Now, you might have seen, like, a televangelist lay a hand on someone and they start speaking this made up language that sounds like gibberish. They'd say that's a real way to talk to God. But my parents told me that anyone who spoke in tongues was brainwashed by a cult. One night, the four of us were having a sleepover at Haley's house. We stayed up after her mom went to bed. We stayed up late in the dark talking about God. We had all accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior. But Mallory said her salvation happened in two parts. First, she'd accepted Christ, and then she had spoken in tongues. She was so pleased with herself. But I was just really confused. Did this mean Mallory was going to hell? Does it mean I was going to hell? Because I'd never done it. And then, to my surprise, Molly admitted she used to go to a church where adults spoke in tongues. Haley was saying she was so worried that her mom wasn't saved at all because her mom only went to church on Christmas and Easter. And I was sitting there wondering, with all of these different definitions of salvation, how are we supposed to know we're saved at all? Then Molly started prophesying. By prophesying, I mean, this tween started speaking like a little cult leader, like she was improvising a sermon. And she laid her hands on our heads and said, have faith, have faith, have faith. Why did Molly get to prophesy? Mallory had her head bowed and was speaking tongues to herself in the corner. It looked so natural to her, so cool. Molly told Haley that, yeah, her mom was actually going to hell and that she had to go wake her mom up right now to tell her to repent and accept Jesus. Jesus might come back tomorrow and then it would be too late. Haley was shaken, but she ran off into the dark to go confront her mom. I was worried about Haley's mom, too. But mostly I was jealous that Molly and Mallory were clearly such better Christians than me. Being a Jesus freak was supposed to be the thing that I was the best at. I was so upset that I started to cry. My lips started to Quiver. And if I made sobs out loud it started to sound like something is that tongues Thought maybe this is the moment that I'm open enough to God to be saved for real. I gave myself over and let go. All kinds of noises came out of me, noises I hadn't really intended to make, but noises that were small and quiet like me. Molly and Mallory noticed and they hugged me, so proud of me. And for the first time I felt completely sure of my salvation. Then Haley came back into the room with her mom trailing behind her. Apparently her mom wasn't so happy that she'd been woken up in the middle of the night by her 11 year old daughter to be told she was going to hell. It's brought some reality back to the situation. I mean, maybe God wasn't speaking through Molly after all. We were all disappointed and went to bed. Some time and some distance from that strange evening, I decided I'd made the whole thing up. I wrote my friends a letter to tell them that I had succumbed to peer pressure and I'd faked speaking in tongues to fit in, but I wasn't going to join their little cult. It didn't help my friendships, but it did restore my sense of superiority.

[John Nelson]

So there's this man at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks him his faith. He says Methodist. So St. Peter right away says let's go this way. And the two of them start to walk down a long bright hallway. On their way, one assumes, to the Methodist wing of heaven. And along the way they pass an open door to a room full of people singing and shouting for joy and looking in. The man asks same Peter, who they are, he's kind of hoping, you know, these are the Lutherans, he learns. So they keep walking. Another door, another big party, same question. These are the Presbyterians. These are the. You name it. And eventually they come to a closed door and it's very quiet and the man wonders what's on the other side and St. Peter whispers quietly, please. These are the Baptists. They think they're the only ones here

[Jana Fisher]

now.

[John Nelson]

You can sub in different religions, different denominations for this really old joke, but the point remains the same. Those poor girls is the point worried about whether or not they're really going to go to heaven or what, be tortured to death for the rest of their afterlives. And all based on half remembered ideals heard from grown ups who know about as much about it as they do. Really nothing. I spent a lot of time worrying about this at a young age based on grown ups without the courage to look inside themselves and acknowledge the fact that really they had no idea. You just have to wonder, and what's so wrong with that? And I can laugh about it now, but I was angry about it for years. It's why I really love people who can look me in the eye and say, I don't know. Here's a 21st century way of looking at it. Religious people who claim to know things based on visions or prayer, or how many books they've read, or the traditions of their forefathers. They're no better than artificial intelligence, gathering basic facts and theories online to half ass a weak guess and present it as fact without even a proper introduction. Something along the lines of While no one can be really sure, I recognized myself and Jaina in that last story, especially when she got to her conclusion about feeling superior. Of course I know that feeling. It could feel really good as an insulated oddball who rarely felt anything but inferior. Really, a little moral superiority can go a long way to balance some of that out, but it's dangerous. You should know that ultimately it's not a great way to go through life for anyone. Modesty, Humility is key, and a lot of Christians know this. I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush. My dad was a Christian and he was honest with me about most things. When I got older, I challenged him gently on the propriety of insisting religious beliefs upon children, and he was sympathetic, actually. And while he remained steadfast in his faith, he was always up for a good debate with me. I really miss my dad. And yes, I've gone from feeling morally superior about religious matters to feeling intellectually somehow, though I have no right to. I don't want to be the atheist looking down his nose at a person who's found spirituality or religion if they're not making it a problem for anyone else, of course, and acts like he knows better. I'm just saying I'm humbled before whatever or whoever made this existence and wouldn't dare put a name to it. How disrespectful would that be? I remain in awe. Eyes closed and mouth shut. I guess God might have your number, but you for sure don't know the name of God.

[Kevin Allison]

Hey folks, it's Kevin. I'm just breaking in here for a little ad break, but you want to know how you could avoid these in the future? It's easy. Just be like Aida Golenkotsi who just joined our patreon at the kink camper level. Isn't she great you could do the [e-mail] risk. Now let's get back to the episode, I don't Know, with our guest host, John Nelson.

[John Nelson]

God might have your number, but you for sure don't know the name of God. That's just me. It's a way for me to talk about religion with my mother. Now, I'll tell you that it helps for her to know that practically the effect of our very different belief systems produce the same things. It's humanitarianism, an oversimplification, but once you undefy it, that's what's left, essentially. But why do parents do this, insist these private beliefs on their entire family? Well, I guess it's for the same reason I want to show my kid all my favorite movies and books. Books and press play on every record I ever loved. I've spent my life picking and choosing the best from the rest and want them to benefit from all of this effort. What else do I even have to offer? You know, what else is there? Not much. Not really. We want them to take our lead, pick up where we left off, learn from our mistakes, do as we say as opposed to how we sometimes actually did things. And that's why this next story feels familiar as well. I get it now. As a parent, I get where Jesse's mom is coming from for sure. Do as I say, not as I did. I've learned. I went through a bunch of hard work learning. And if you'll just please, for the love of God, G A W D learn from my mistakes. Jesse Bradley Amore. Take this easy road, this shortcut to wisdom. And listen, here's Jesse Bradley Amore with a story along those lines here on risk.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

I am 12 years old and I'm in the middle of watching Darkwing Duck as you do on the weekday Disney afternoon block. My mother walks into the living room and turns off the tv and I see in her right hand she has the NYPD nightstick that we have to fend off intruders from our home. It's the same long, about three feet long. It's got a ribbed handle, it's wood with a lead court inside. And in her left hand she's got this little white square thing and there's a circle inside and I don't know what it is. And my mother looks at me and she goes, jessie, today you're going to learn how to put on a condom. A condom?

[John Nelson]

A condom.

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

Just to give you a frame of reference about my mother. My mother was a teenage runaway in the 70s and she was in the punk rock scene and did a whole bunch of drugs. And at 19, she got pregnant with me, and it ended up saving her life. And I'm 12 years old at this point, and she wants to make sure that I'm not going to go down that same road of having a child too soon. And my mother would do these types of things, like, to make sure that I would never go on drugs. She said, jesse, if I ever catch you doing drugs, I will handcuff you to myself, and I will be with you everywhere. And the only drug that she was okay with doing that maybe I could do one day was potential, though. She wanted to make sure I didn't tell anybody that she was smoking pot. So my mom goes, if you ever tell anyone that I smoke pot, you will go to a foster home where there will be no Christmas and no one will love you. And all of these things worked. I never told anyone that she smoked pot until now. And now that it's absolutely cool. So my mom wants to make sure that I'm not going to repeat the same mistakes that she's making. So here we are in the living room, and she takes the condom out of the little white square, and she starts rolling it down the handle of the nightstick, and it's a ribbed handle. And my mother looks at me dead in the eye and goes, don't think you're ever going to be this big. And she rolls down the condom really, really slow, slowly, to show that no matter how big something is, condom's going to be able to fit just fine. And she only does it once. And after she's finished, she goes, and that's how you put on a condom. That is how I don't become a grandmother too soon. Flash forward five years later. I am 17 years old, and I am finally going to have sex for the first time with my girlfriend. There's soft Smashing Pumpkins playing in the background, and I have the condom in my hand, and I haven't practiced. I haven't done anything with the condom I haven't done. You know, like some people practice, like, kissing in mirrors or with pillows. Some people practice putting on condoms over bananas or even themselves. I haven't done any of this. So this is my first time that I'm putting on a condom, and we're almost there. We're about to have sex for the first time, and I just think about that nightstand, and I think about rolling down the condom down the handle. Except this time, it's me. I'm rolling the condom down Me. And I'm just remembering this in my head. And I'm doing every Tearing out the condom and putting it on. And I look down and I put it on, right? And it's a miracle that. Five years I haven't practiced this. Five years. And I still remember this moment. And everything happens the way that it should. It should. The next morning, I'm having breakfast, and my mom, she looks at me and she can clearly see that I'm no longer a virgin. He is. My mother just with her own experience, can just tell. So she looks at me and she goes, jess, did you get laid? Yes, Mom, I did. Then she asks, did you wear a condom? And there's this pause, like she's waiting for me to tell her whether I did or I didn't. And I go, yes, Mom, I wore a condom. And her right hand goes up and she says, high five. And we high fived. And for a moment, my mother was so proud of me.

[John Nelson]

Yeah. Cause that's what we all want, right? Our parents to be proud of us, our kids to learn from our mistakes. It's probably pretty universal. I know I always wanted my dad's respect. That's why I was religious growing up, because dad was. My faith was very much an extension of his. Born out of love for my dad. That's what I see now, looking back. Not my heavenly Father, my actual father. I could see it made him happy when I took interest in the sermon or begged him to buy me the big illustrated Bible on display in the church bookstore when I got his permission to go to the altar, never for the first time when the pastor would ask if we felt called to come forward. He was a born again. After living blissfully free from all of this frankly extreme religion for most of his life. But in a home which was not without its share of misery as a married man, he finally found religion. And in a major way, his life growing up, though to me sounded like an ideal. Wrapped up in a kind of nightmare. His older brother sick for years and from too young an age, his sister depressed, his mother distraught beside herself, really. Grandpa working day in and day out, head down, just trying to keep it all together and no religion, no need for it, in spite of everything. But his wife, when he married her, insisted on church. And so he went. And things, from what I hear, ramped up around the time his beloved older brother finally did die. After living with the specter of death for over half of his and his little brother's young life. Dad really lost himself in religion at that point. And as a child I was all in, because that's what dad was, Christian. He'd had his first son, me, and then immediately lost his big brother who he'd been losing his whole life. And then right when mom had him another, my little brother, he split. He didn't leave us, he left his life. And I won't say his mind, because I loved my dad and respect him. But when I look at my life, I see a lot of false starts and wrong turns. And comparatively, his was just a textbook success story. And great jobs right from college, a pretty wife and two kids in the suburbs, the two car garage and all that he achieved. The middle class. And this spokesperson for Empire left all of that and took us with him to seminary where he said God had told him to go. And not only that, but he had the guts to do it. Hell yeah, I respect my dad. I couldn't always see eye to eye with him, but I respected him like crazy. With two babies and a wife dependent, he quit a great job and started over as a seminary student. What the hell? But also, wow, that's conviction or something. But then he didn't stay there either. And that's a whole other story. And the truth is, I don't really know enough to tell you. God, it seems, had given him another new command. And that was for all of us to return to the exact same life he'd just torn us all away from. And things were to return to exactly the way they'd been before, except things were a little different now. He was, strictly speaking, a man of God. An electrical engineer again, and not a minister, but someone who knew his place in the church in a way I assume from having gotten to know him later in life, really gave him a sense of community and belonging, a sense of identity. All the things I've been searching for my whole life with very limited success. Just the smallest amounts, little tastes here and there. He was feasting during his life and I was famished. But for many years, as a young boy and as a very young man, that was also informing my own sense of identity. Right up until confirmation, ironically, just a coincidence, that's when I realized it didn't make that much sense. And despite his devotion, he remained remarkably open to debate. And as I grew, my desire to engage with him on these subjects was actually indulged. And I had a junior theologians worth of education too on the subject, so I would hold my own. I could see that's what he thought anyway, by the way his eye was sparkle all the way up to the inevitable conclusion each and every time, where we just agree to disagree. Because faith. Because faith. John. That's my name, by the way. I'm John Nelson, hosting this segment for no good reason. That's what my mom would say if I told her about this, which I won't. What good would come from that? She'd wonder. And I do always wonder. I want to be a force for good. So what good can come from this? Well, I guess it's provided the opportunity to showcase a couple of stories which Kevin and company couldn't quite decide what to do with. And I got some things off my chest, too. So, speaking of hearing from God and getting messages from God and how mysteriously they come and go and how hard to interpret sometimes, what about this next story, huh? What do you think of this? It's from Stephen Harder, and it's a doozy. Back on track with one from a man who went to seminary too, just like dad, except he made it all the way through. Here's Stephen Harder on a risk.

[Stephen Harder]

So after I had graduated Bible college, I was at a real loss as to what I should be doing next. So, like most people in that situation, I do the only logical thing and I start applying for youth ministry internships. After I've been doing that for a week or two, my dad tells me that Michael from First Baptist, one of the largest megachurches in the area, called and wanted to set up an interview with me Monday, 10am which was amazing. So I show up at the church right on time, right at 10am I walk up to the receptionist and I say that I am here for an internship interview with Michael. And she looks a little bit confused, but she disappears down the hallway. And then she returns with a guy. And he says, you said Michael set up an interview with you? And I say, yeah. And he tells me that nobody by the name of Michael works there. And confusion just sort of hangs in the air between us. And then he produces the envelope I had dropped off last week, and it's still sealed. And he opens it up and my resume and my internship application slides out. And he says, you said someone named Michael had called you. And I said, yeah. And our eyes lock and we just hold each other's gaze as if, like, breaking eye contact is going to, like, break the spell of this supernatural moment that is possibly unfolding around us. In this very moment, we are silently asking ourselves the exact same question. Is this actually happening? Did the arch angel Michael from the Book of Daniel set up this interview for me on God's behalf. So he brings me into his office and he conducts a perfunctory interview. But we both know that if God set up this interview, nothing I can say should prevent it from coming about. And as I'm leaving his office, he promises me that he's going to put my name forward as a candidate for one of the internships positions. And I am on cloud nine. I go home and I see that there is a voicemail waiting for me.

[John Nelson]

Hi, this is Michael from First Gospel Church. I'm calling for Stephen. We had arranged for an interview this

[Jesse Bradley Amore]

morning at 10am it's now 10 and

[John Nelson]

I just wanted to make sure that he's okay and to see if we need to reschedule for another time. If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again. If you need help, hang up.

[Stephen Harder]

First Gospel is There's another church in the area where I had dropped off one of my packets. It's much smaller than First Baptist, a lot less glamorous. But I was desperate so I applied there too. My dad, as it turns out, not so good with details. When he was taking the phone message last week, he got confused and he simply wrote down the wrong church name. So I called Michael back and I thanked him and I told him that I had secured a position elsewhere. But thanks.

[John Nelson]

Well, I think I know what dad would have said about that, but I'll keep it to myself for once and just let the story be the story. We're out of time. Anyway, thanks to Kevin and John LaSalla for their help this episode. I kind of flipped the script a little bit, I think, telling my own stories when all I was tasked with was letting others tell theirs. I had a blast though, and maybe somebody heard my rants and smiled or nodded just a little. Maybe they thought, well, I guess he went through something similar. Maybe I'm not the only one who remembers all of that. And no, you're not. I see you, buddy. You went through that. We both did, for whatever it was worth. So this was cathartic for me at least. Thank you. I hope nobody minded too much my way of doing things. This episode, if you liked it, you can find me online. Maybe the host will tell you how I'm gonna practice that humility I mentioned before. Maybe pretend I'm not dying to tell you how. I'm John Nelson and this is Risk.

[Kevin Allison]

This is Risk. This is DJ Freddie Fresh behind me once again. And over the course of this episode, we heard the Gift of Tongues by Jana Fisher, Object Lesson by Jesse Bradley, Amar Mori and highly recommended by Stephen Harder and everything else was of course John Nelson. You can find everything John makes, radio retrofit and some assembly required on WFMU on the Sheena's Jungle Room stream at WFMU.org and it's all archived on John's site Ah Fui.com and you can find the storytellers themselves at Janafisher.com Linktree Stephenharder and Jesse Bradley Amore is premiering a new solo show at the Philly Fringe this September so you can check him out at linktree Questionable Decision Comics all all of these links are in the show notes. Well I love that we were able to do a little something different in this episode and I'm so grateful to John Nelson for putting it together and for our own John La Sala for making it happen. Let us know what you think on all the Socials we're at Risk show and you can include the hashtag I heard it on risk wherever you post about us folks, today's the day Take a risk.