Catastrophe

Summary

RISK! Podcast — Episode: Catastrophe (February 24, 2026)

Episode Overview The “Catastrophe” episode of RISK! dives into true stories of people who’ve lived through overwhelming, even traumatic moments and emerged with transformed perspectives. Host Kevin Allison frames the episode as an exploration of resilience—how facing the unimaginable can make us deeper, more appreciative, and more human. The stories, by Emma Yarbrough and Joel Gonzalez, reflect on personal disasters: sudden loss, surviving a murder in the family, the psychological toll of PTSD, and the everyday chaos and anger of being an essential worker during the COVID-19 pandemic. Through pain, humor, and vulnerability, the storytellers search for meaning and growth in catastrophe.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Introduction: The Power and Reassurance of Storytelling

• Kevin Allison explains how sharing traumatic stories can help both storytellers and listeners adjust their perspectives. “I hear people share stories on this show about getting through so many different big and small things. I'm just constantly adjusting my perspective.” (04:13)

Story 1: Searching for Blue Sky — Emma Yarbrough ([04:36]–[15:34])

Emma’s Midnight Panic and PTSD

• Emma wakes in a panic, convinced an intruder is in her home. She builds a barricade—only to learn it’s her roommate, triggering memories of recent trauma.
• Emma relates how she developed PTSD a few months after a devastating tragedy.

Losing Aunt Day and Childhood Sanctuary

• Her mother texts to tell her that Aunt Day’s house, a cherished mountain cabin in North Carolina, has burned down. At first, she doesn’t process the loss—Aunt Day’s home was her “refuge,” a magical sanctuary in her shy, awkward childhood.
• Emma fondly describes Aunt Day’s resilience: “If anything crazy is going to happen, it's going to happen to her… she survived an RV camper explosion… she was driving to church, eating a bowl of cereal, which is not advised on mountain roads, and drove her ass off of the mountain.” (09:00)

Revelation of Violent Loss

• The real blow comes when Emma’s mom calls again: “Sweetie, they found Aunt Day's body in the house. And we need to prepare ourselves because they think someone committed a crime.” (11:07)
• Emma resists facing this truth: “All I want to do is move in the direction where I'm rewinding time, where murder is just a word… it is not something that's happened to my favorite person in the world.” (11:35)
• The perpetrator: a 19-year-old, “arrested on drug charges and awaiting trial, escaped jail,” murdered Aunt Day, and burned down the house.

Living with PTSD

• Hypervigilance colors Emma’s life: she imagines disaster everywhere—plane crashes, shootings, and drive-bys.
• Paradoxically, grief allows her to feel greater joy: “When I laugh, I'm laughing harder than I've ever laughed… there is this counteraction that is allowing me to reach heights of joy and appreciation for beauty that I've never experienced before.” (13:25)
• She likens grief to a rubber band: the deeper the sorrow, the greater the rebound into joy.

Aunt Day’s Legacy: Finding Beauty in Pain

• At the memorial, Aunt Day’s best friend recalls seeing her literally in a ditch, and Aunt Day tells her, “Yeah, you know, I'm fine… but you know what? Look at this sky. Look at these clouds. Have you ever seen anything so beautiful?” (14:32)
• Emma closes with gratitude: “I laugh through tears all the time. And in that way, my Aunt Day is closer to me than ever before. Thank you.” (15:22)

Notable Quote ([14:32], Emma as Aunt Day):
“Look at this sky. Look at these clouds. Have you ever seen anything so beautiful?”

Transition & Reflection

• Kevin: “That moment of Emma's Aunt Day enjoying the beauty of the blue sky from the ditch she had fallen into is one I think I'll remember forever.” (19:13)
• Emma’s solo show, Day, is highlighted (see emayarborough.com).

Story 2: Keeping Us Safe — Joel Gonzalez ([22:53]–[41:52])

Covid’s Catastrophe: From Retail to Essential Worker

• Joel has spent most of his life in retail, work he values for its stability and union protection.
• Everything changes with Covid-19: “Suddenly I went from being just a regular retail guy to an essential worker. Now being essential worker means that, oh, you have to go to your job no matter what because we need you and your life doesn't matter. That's what felt like being a (essential) worker.” (22:58)

Personal Stakes: Wife's Health and Anxiety

• Joel cares for his wife, whose severe carpal tunnel leaves her largely unable to function independently. The pandemic also reveals her germaphobia.
• Joel becomes hypervigilant, sanitizing obsessively to protect his wife—shoes wiped, clothing isolated, even buying a UV box for personal items.

Retail Reality: Fear, Frustration, and the Mask Wars

• He describes early pandemic retail as “war”—no remote work, daily risks.
• Joel is initially a “mask Nazi,” enforcing masking rules on customers with aggressive persistence. He vividly recounts conflict with a noncompliant male customer who curses at him:
  “God damn it, don't you mind your own goddamn business?”
  Joel: “If you're really concerned about your health, you put the mask on and stop engaging everybody in the store.” (29:07)

Crescendo of Conflict: The Maskless Woman

• A pivotal incident occurs with a maskless woman shopping and pointedly ignoring employees and other customers.
• As she refuses to comply, eventually knocking over her basket and screaming: “Fuck you. You fuck everybody and fuck this store.” (35:53)
• Joel is shocked at his own anger, realizing he almost follows her to her car in the parking lot.
  “What am I doing? I was so angry at this woman that I was gonna do one of the most fundamental wrong things that any male could do. Is follow a woman to her car. That's when I kind of knew at that point, like, I've gone too far...” (37:16)

Reckoning and Letting Go

• Joel recognizes the pandemic has eroded his humanity: “It started taking away my humanity. I was not happy. I mean, I was literally just angry and scared all the time.” (37:55)
• He begins to “be more forgiving,” easing up on enforcing pandemic protocol and deciding to focus on “my own happiness.”
• Even after he and his wife both contract Covid in 2022 after a wedding, they are okay. “We actually survived. And we were both okay. We thank you, science. We thank you, vaccinations.” (40:55)
• Joel reflects on seeing the maskless woman now: “Am I still mad at her? Yeah. … But do I hate this woman? No, I don't hate her. She's living her life, doing what she had to do. It's not my business… I'm tired of being mad.” (41:15)
• Final insight: “Life is short. We have to live our lives, and we can't keep living it in fear. Deal with it now, and the rest will happen later.” (41:46)

Notable Quote ([37:55], Joel Gonzalez):
"It started taking away my humanity. I was not happy. I mean, I was literally just angry and scared all the time."

Host Reflection and Episode Close

• Kevin lauds Joel’s story: “God bless the people who are rebuilding our unions. So, so, so, so essential to getting back to the people power that we had the last time fascism was on the rise.” (42:17)
• Listeners are urged to support essential workers, storytelling, and music contributions.
• Final words: “Today’s the day. Take a risk.” (45:31)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:36] Emma Yarbrough’s “Searching for Blue Sky” begins
• [14:32] Aunt Day’s sky appreciation moment
• [15:34] Emma’s story ends
• [22:53] Joel Gonzalez’s “Keeping Us Safe” begins
• [29:07] Joel confronts the noncompliant customer
• [35:53] Maskless woman’s outburst
• [37:16] Joel's moment of self-realization in the parking lot
• [41:46] Joel’s conclusion: “Life is short. We have to live our lives…”
• [42:17] Kevin's commentary on the power of unions

Memorable Moments and Quotes

• Emma, about PTSD’s dual nature:
  “When I laugh, I'm laughing harder than I've ever laughed… there is this counteraction that is allowing me to reach heights of joy and appreciation for beauty that I've never experienced before.” (13:25)
• Emma’s Aunt Day from the ditch:
  “Look at this sky. Look at these clouds. Have you ever seen anything so beautiful?” (14:32)
• Joel, on the pandemic’s psychological toll:
  “It started taking away my humanity. I was not happy. I mean, I was literally just angry and scared all the time.” (37:55)
• Joel, on letting go:
  “I'm tired of being mad.” (41:20)
• Kevin, on the enduring hope and necessity of resilience:
  “Take a risk.” (45:31)

Summary Flow With the honesty, wit, and raw emotional truth typical of RISK!, both stories transform personal catastrophes into sources of empathy and meaning. Emma Yarbrough’s loss and Joel Gonzalez’s pandemic panic journey towards letting go show that in disaster, we can rediscover life’s beauty and our own compassion—even as the world feels like it’s falling apart.

For more about Emma’s storytelling, see emayarborough.com. For Joel’s writing, visit his Substack at Joel Daniel Gonzalez. To support RISK! or share your own music, head to risk-show.com.

Transcript

[Kevin Allison]

On this episode of Risk, you'll hear fuck you.

[Joel Gonzalez]

Knocks the basket over. Fuck you, fuck everybody and fuck this store.

[Kevin Allison]

And you'll hear she was driving to

[Emma Yarbrough]

church, eating a bowl of cereal on mountain roads and drove her ass off of the mountain.

[Kevin Allison]

And of course, meet Kevin Allison on the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share.

[Joel Gonzalez]

We'll be right back. Hey Sal.

[Kevin Allison]

Hank, what's going on?

[Joel Gonzalez]

We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me.

[Kevin Allison]

They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price.

[Joel Gonzalez]

Uh huh. And it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed. Buy your car today on Carvana.

[Emma Yarbrough]

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[Joel Gonzalez]

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[Emma Yarbrough]

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[Kevin Allison]

Hello folks. This episode is called Catastrophe. But it's about people who faced overwhelming situations in such a way that they grew from it and that they're grateful for it. It's one of those things that I most treasure about this show that we have so many stories that I personally feel reassured by because it's so easy for me to get into my own head about how bad things are or about how bad things might be tomorrow or next month or whatnot. Then I hear people share stories on this show about getting through so many different big and small things. I'm just constantly adjusting my perspective. Now, before we jump in, musicians, do you want us to play your music on Risk? I'll get to this later in the episode, but everything you need to know is at risk-show.com music now in a little bit, we're going to hear a story by Joel Gonzalez. But to start things off, a story by Emma Yarbrough that was recorded at Risk live show we did at Aisle 5 in Atlanta last year. I should warn you, there's a violent death recounted in this story. Here is Emma Yarborough now. It's a story we call Searching for Blue Sky.

[Emma Yarbrough]

I'm asleep in my bed when suddenly I'm jolted awake. I hold my breath and try to listen over the pounding of my heart and I hear it again. Someone's broken into my house. I immediately go through all of my options and I decide the best thing that I can do is build a barricade at my bedroom door. So I jump out of bed. I have a sofa in my bedroom. I push it up against the wall and then I just start loading the heaviest things I can get on top of the sofa so that it will take a while for someone to bust through the door and I'll have enough time to dial 91 1. As I hear footsteps coming down the hall. I start dialing. And just before I'm about to press send, I hear Emma. And just like that, I snap back into myself and I understand that that's my roommate. She's come home unexpectedly and I am once again in a PTSD induced panic attack. At this point, I haven't had PTSD for very long. It's only been a few months. Because a few months prior to this, I am sitting on my couch. I remember I'm reading a book and I get a text from my mom and it says, you, Aunt Day's house burnt down last night. And it doesn't hit me immediately that I have lost my favorite place in the world. My Aunt Day's house is my refuge. It's my sanctuary. As a child, I was very sensitive. I was really shy. I was pretty awkward and going To Aunt Day's house was like the only opportunity I had to really feel like I belonged. And it was so special to belong there, because it was magic at Aunt Day's house. Her house is a cabin up in the western North Carolina mountains. And in order to get to that cabin, you had to drive up this driveway that was like a 45 degree angle. And driving up that driveway literally felt like you were passing through a veil into this magical fairyland that my Aunt Day had created. There's a babbling mountain brook that's ice cold where you can mine for gemstones, rose quartz, garnets, rubies if you're lucky. And the wildlife there is incredible. It's actually a rainforest there. So the wildflowers and the biodiversity is just mind boggling. And not only that, when I'm up at my Aunt Day's house, I'm also with my Aunt Day, who is my absolute favorite person in the world. She's the funniest person I know, which is really astonishing that she is so funny and has this incredible outlook on life, this deep appreciation for the beauty of nature, for living in the moment, because she's had so much, such a hard life. Time and time again, disasters befall this woman. If anything crazy is going to happen, it's going to happen to her. For instance, she survived an RV camper explosion that lit her nightgown on fire and gave her third degree burns. One time she was driving to church, eating a bowl of cereal, which is not advised on mountain roads, and drove her ass off of the mountain once. She was on a cross country road trip. Sorry, not a road trip. She was in a train. I guess that's a road trip. No, it's a track trip. She was on a cross country track trip and she was almost stabbed by someone. And then a little ways down the track, that train hit another train. Like this one trip, y'. All, this shit only happened to her. And the thing about it is, she was an incredible storyteller. And she would recount these insane hijinks and pickles that she got herself into and have you laughing with tears like I can still hear her. Just, y', all, it was terrible, you know, so. So even though it's devastating that this house is gone, I know that in some time, Aunt Day is going to have a hilarious story to tell about her house burning down. About an hour after I got the text from my mom, my phone rings and it's her again. And she says, sweetie, they found Aunt Day's body in the house. And we need to prepare ourselves because they think someone committed a crime. And the first thing out of my mouth is, I don't want to think about that. Just immediately, no. And she says, I know, but we have to. When I get off the phone, I literally spin in place, I circle myself because I don't know where I can move forward because all I want to do is move in the direction where I'm rewinding time, where murder is just a word, it's a plot point in a movie, it is not my reality and is not something that's happened to my favorite person in the world. So the PTSD is with me all the time. And I'm grateful in some ways because it's protecting me, it's protecting my brain. I know that what happened was a 19 year old kid was arrested on drug charges and awaiting trial in escaped jail and made his way to a mountain cabin where he knew a widow, lived alone, and maybe he could steal her car and maybe he could get a gun. And so he made his way there and he killed her and he burnt the house to the ground to cover his tracks. And he's caught immediately and now is in prison for the rest of his life. And I feel like I am in a prison of my mind for the rest of my life because the PTSD is constant. Every night when I dream, it's a nightmare. And it's a nightmare that there is some intense violence either being enacted on me or on someone I love. Every flight is going to crash. Every time I'm in a movie theater, there's going to be a shooting at a gay pride parade. I think I see a sniper on top of a building and I run. On the 4th of July, we're shooting fireworks in the roads and a big black SUV comes slowly down the road. And I'm immediately positive that there's going to be a drive by shooting. And I book it. But then there's this other thing that keeps happening. I am so deeply depressed and so full of sorrow. I'm at times in places deeper than I thought I would ever be able to go emotionally. But on the other hand, when I laugh, I'm laughing harder than I've ever laughed. And when I see a movie or listen to a piece of music or read something that moves me, it is so, so achingly beautiful. I can't take it. I start to imagine my traumatic grief as a rubber band. And even though I am being pulled as deep as I can get, there is this counteraction that is allowing me to reach Heights of joy and appreciation for beauty that I've never experienced before. And that makes me think of my Aunt Day and the story she told about the catastrophes in her life at her memorial service. It wasn't a regular funeral because we didn't have her body. It was with the police. So instead, we all just got together and told stories about her. And I heard this story that I'd never heard before from her best friend. Just a few weeks before she died, her best friend had decided to drive to the cabin to visit her and see how she was doing. And as she was driving down that road, getting closer to that 45 degree angle driveway, she saw that there was something in the ditch. And then as she got even closer, she realized it was day in the ditch. So she stopped her car and pulled over and came out and was like, day, are you. Are you okay? Do you need any help? And my Aunt Dave said, yeah, you know, I'm fine. I just. I was coming down the driveway to check my mail and I tripped and I fell over and I couldn't get up. But you know what? Look at this sky. Look at these clouds. Have you ever seen anything so beautiful? So I don't have my Aunt Day anymore, and I don't have my sanctuary. But I laugh through tears all the time. And in that way, my Aunt Day is closer to me than ever before. Thank you.

[Kevin Allison]

We'll be right back, folks. This episode of Risk is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, I know so many friends who struggle because they feel like other people have it all figured out as far as romance or their sex lives go, or have it all together or got it all then I know so many other people who are deep in relationships and really feel like some problems in their relationships are intractable. So in February, you know, when it's Valentine's season, a lot of people get a little down in the dumps or a little anxious about all the roses and candies and flowers and whatnot. But the truth is, everyone, everyone, me more than anyone, maybe, is still learning, is still kind of figuring it out as we go. And therapy is a great way to work on that. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can really lay out your therapy goals. And if you find that you're not happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Having served over 6 million people globally and an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. So sign up and get 10% [e-mail] risk that's better h lp.com risk eczema

[Emma Yarbrough]

as unpredictable, but you can flare less with Epglis, a once monthly treatment for moderate to severe eczema after an initial four month or longer dosing phase.

[Joel Gonzalez]

About four in ten people taking EBGLIS

[Emma Yarbrough]

achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Joel Gonzalez]

Empglis Lebricizumab LBKZ, a 250mg 2ml injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin, skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglis before starting ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. Ask your doctor about ebgliss and visit

[Emma Yarbrough]

ebgliss.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Joel Gonzalez]

We heard you. Nine years of bring back the Snack Wrap and you've won.

[Kevin Allison]

But maybe you should have asked for more.

[Joel Gonzalez]

Say hello to the Hot Honey Snack Wrap. Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can. We're back.

[Kevin Allison]

This is Risk. This is Django behind me now. And we just heard from Emma Yarborough. That moment of Emma's Aunt Day enjoying the beauty of the blue sky from the ditch she had fallen into is one I think I'll remember forever. Emma has a solo show she'll be doing in many cities this summer. It's named after her aunt. It's called Day. Emma's a senior producer with one of our very favorite storytelling organizations and podcasts, the Story Collider. And you can learn where Emma's doing her solo show [e-mail] now here's something different. An artist and Risk fan named Matt Elsweg wrote to me offering to do an illustration or two inspired by a couple of our stories. He illustrated two stories from our Come and Go episode from a couple weeks ago, the Drunken Burglar story from Ezra Holmland and the sperm bank story from Sarah Adelman. Check it out on our Facebook and Instagram feed riskshow and see more of Matt's work. Mattelswaag now there's a bonus story that just went out from David Zelnick on our Patreon and it sounds a little bit like this.

[Joel Gonzalez]

I see this 6 foot 5 blonde

[Emma Yarbrough]

guy and I catch his eye and I'm pretty sure he's cruising me and

[Joel Gonzalez]

I cruise him back. And I'm married, but I always get curious in situations like this and I'm not even into tall guys. But I will say there's always something exciting about the idea of bringing down big game.

[Kevin Allison]

So last week we just had that conversation story with David Zelnick on the Lights Off Pants down episode. And now there's this truly fantastic and very different kind of story from David that is exclusive to our patrons. And there's plenty more where that came from. Plus our Storytelling for Business video course videos of our live shows, access to the live streams of those live shows going out to anywhere in the world. You can get the ad free feed of the podcast there. And most importantly, you'd be making it possible for Risk to continue to exist. Not kidding. By joining our Patreon or or upping your current support [e-mail] risk or you can make a one time donation at PayPal me risk. Now next up, that story from Joel Gonzalez. Now this. This takes us away for just a moment from this difficult era we are in to a very recent other difficult era we were once in. And in a way it is a reminder that okay, we did make it through that. This is Joel Gonzalez with a story we call Keeping Us Safe.

[Joel Gonzalez]

So I've worked in retail for most of my adult life. It's not the most glamorous job in the world, but it's decent pay and it's union. And my job's basic stocking shelves, helping customers, checking out groceries, the usual. But my job forever changed in March of 2020 when Covid first struck and suddenly I went from being just a regular retail guy to an essential worker. Now being essential worker means that, oh, you have to go to your job no matter what because we need you and your life doesn't matter. That's what felt like being a central worker. So naturally, I was scared. I had no choice. It was either work, maybe get sick and die, or don't work and starve to death. So what choice did I have? I had to work. Now I was not only concerned about my safety, I was concerned about my wife's safety as well. We've been married for about a year at this point, together for five. And in December 2019, she started showing early signs of carpal tunnel in her arms. At first it was small, minor little pain here and there. Nothing that some aspirin, some braces, or some stretching couldn't help. But then it started to get worse and worse and worse, and it got to the point where she couldn't work anymore. It was up to me to help her with simple activities like opening doors, opening packages, making sure Val was sitting one position in the room so her head wouldn't turn because the carpal tunnel was so severe that went all the way up to her neck and that she couldn't stand it. She had to sit on the floor to watch shows or movies with me at all. Also, I had to, like, help her preparing some food here and there because she couldn't do certain things with her arms. So I became somewhat of a caretaker during this time. Also, what was revealed to me during her carpal tunnel issue was my wife was a germaphobe. I didn't know how severe it was at first, really, Honestly, before then, I would know. She washed her hands more than once or twice, and I thought nothing about it. I'm like, oh, okay. Likes to stay clean. But as this pandemic raged on and I watched her watching the news, looking at her phone, eyes just white with terror, she started washing more frequently, started hand sanitizing more frequently. Every time I came from work, it was a list of questions of where I was and how I messed up and where I could be. It got worse and worse and worse. She would not leave the house. So I knew at this point, it was up to me to make sure that we were both safe and that she would not get sick because she sincerely believed that her immune system was compromised because of her condition. So I did whatever I could to keep us safe. The pressure was on big time. When this pandemic first started and everyone's working at home, retail people, we were first to be forgotten. The lucky ones out there who had the desk jobs and answered emails, they gotta stay at home, they gotta wake up in their PJs and dress from just the top down in front of a zoom screen. The retail workers, no, we had none of that luxury. We had none of it. We were guinea pigs, right when we got out there to see what was gonna happen to us or if society can still survive with the retail workers. Cause everyone needs their food. So every day at work, I felt like I was preparing for a war. Preparing for a biohazard war, I guess it's safe to say I had my clothes in a separate part of the house and like garbage bags to make sure they wouldn't get contaminated to anybody. I would wipe down the bottoms of my shoes, my steel toe boots with Clorox wipes every day, as much as I can get them on. I wore these heavy cargo pants with many pockets. And the pockets were necessary for my job. Necessary to survive, I should say, because I needed backup masks. I needed tons and tons of latex gloves. I need hand sanitizers, I needed sprays. I need everything on me so I can just go around this world and not get sick. It got to the point where I purchased a UV box ray that I found on Amazon, which you put keys and wallets and phones in there and a blast safe rays of radiation on all your items. And what I couldn't fit in there, I would just Clorox like my iPad. You know, who knows what damage I did to it and who knows what damage did to my food at the same time. Now with all this going on, you could tell that I was all about safety. I was all about keeping us both safe. So when the masking started, you know, it started out like, only nurses, only doctors don't put on masks. And then it came clear, oh, no, we all have to wear masks. And watching the news, doom scrolling on Twitter or whatever was saying, masks are the key. Masks will give out this pandemic. You put on the mask and we can all be rid of this virus. It's March 2020. Maybe we can all have Christmas together. Maybe we can all be safe. We all just stick to the rules, keep 6ft distance and mask, and we can kill this virus. And I was like, yes, yes, we can. We can do this. And I have to be that change because I'm on the forefront. I'm out here trying to survive and trying to take care of my wife. And yes, we have to all mask. So for lack of a better term, I became a mask Nazi. Every time I was out and about, especially at my store, I'll go to customers who weren't wearing their mask. Hey, mask, please. No One missed my eye. If I was around them, I got to the point where even if they were in the mask incorrectly, as the ones who wore the mask, you know, just not covering their nose, no matter if they had glasses or not, I would say, hey, over the nose, please. Over the nose. I would see them and I would pester them. No one was safe for me for putting on a mask. I didn't care what it looked like. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. We should all be doing this package. All we do is together. You should be thanking me that you're putting your mask on, right? And that I'm telling you what is important information. So you're welcome. Everybody put your mask on properly. And of course, shaking hands and hugging was strictly out of the question. There's no way contact at this point was dead over to me. Even when I ventured out to my own home, maybe months later, the pandemic where I felt safe and had lawn chairs to go outside, my friends would run up to hug me and I would go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Elbow, elbow. Put the elbow out. And I was so strict about it. I felt that I was right doing this. I felt my mentality was right because I'll come home. I see my wife still in pain, still crying, so she can't do things. I was having to shop for her. I had to make sure she's okay. I was worried sick every time I had to leave home because I didn't know how she was going to be or how she was going to get around. If I got sick, it's over. It's gonna be bad for both of us. And my wife was deathly afraid of this virus, deathly afraid of it. She had family members in her life who died from cancer, and she slowly had to watch them go away. This is lung cancer. So any sort of respiratory disease really affected her watching the news about it. So as we go, months into this pandemic, I'm still very vigilant. I'm still very much that guy who yelled people for not masking. And I was happy about it, proud to be it. I do remember there was this one incident. There was this. There's this male customer, Caucasian, probably mid-50s, long beard, you know, plaid jacket, hat. You know, just lean over his shopping cart. Shopping groceries. I noticed he was on his phone and his mask fully down under his chin. I saw it. I'm like, sir, hey, hey, hey. Yeah, you. Hey, mask up, please. Mask him. Okay, Grumble something To me, that was it. I'm like, all right, that's it. I walk around the store. I see him again, mask fully down on his cell phone once again. And I know you can hear anybody through a cell phone on a mask. Trust me, I've done it tons of times. They can hear you. It's not gonna disturb your voice. I see him again. Sir, can you please put on your mask? He mutters bullshit to me or something like that and puts the mask on again. And I walk around Finally, 20 minutes later, towards more the middle of a store. And this is about 5 o'. Clock. It's pretty busy. There's a lot of people in the store, more than there should be during a pandemic, but that's another story. I see him again. Sir, can you please put your mask on? I am not going to ask you again. And he says, God damn it, don't you mind your own goddamn business. I'm like, look here, I've asked you three minutes. Put on the mask and you have it. I'm talking to my doctor. I have a heart condition. I do not care. If you're really concerned about your health, you put the mask on and stop engaging everybody in the store. At this point, the shouting was getting louder and louder. A crowd started to form around us. And then he started calling me every single curse word he could think of. And I said, like, can you stop acting like a baby and put on your mask for everybody else? He looks at me, stares me down, points his finger at me. For some reason, quietly, right now, my chest is out, saying, what? What? Do something. And he said, where is your manager? He's right here. And I brought him downstairs. I left the conversation. All I heard was angry noise and angry. This guy should mind his own fucking business, dangering everybody. There's no repercussion, of course, because my manager knew I was right and there was nothing that they really could do, this incident. So naturally, I'm seeing the news, it's rising. More people are dying. I'm seeing people in different states who pretend the pandemic is not happening at all, and spreading the virus to everybody. I'm getting angrier and angrier each day, losing faith in the humanity, losing faith that this virus will ever end. I was slowly, maybe for lack of a better word, losing my mind over this. And the stress of my wife, the stress of being at work, the stress that every day I could die. I've seen people who bounced off from COVID I've had friends who go in the hospital and nearly died. Who knows what was gonna happen when I got this. Who knows what's gonna happen to my wife. I was worried. So as we get more into 2021, things are easing a bit, but are coming right back. I still think, okay, 2021 vaccines are starting to come out, but you know what, it's still very contagious, still very mask up. It was still very much at the time, safety. There was this one woman who walked into my store. It was also around 5 o' clock as well on the same day, busy hour for stores, 5 o', clock, rush hour for a lot of people. This woman, she looked like to be about in her 30s, Caucasian, long brown hair, tan, business suit, kind of attractive actually. She walks in the store maskless. I picked up right away. I didn't approach her right away because I think I was busy helping a customer or whatever. But I noticed another employee walked up to her and said, oh, miss, can you please put on a mask, please? She just walks right by them, grabs a black hand basket and starts shopping. I remember my employee standing there just puzzled, confused, like did she even look at me? Did she even hear what I said? Does she even look around that everyone else is wearing a mask but her? Apparently this didn't bother at all. This woman shopped around and other employees and including customers come at her. Miss, where's your mask? You put a mask on, please. Probably best way to put a mask. She would just look at an item as if that person wasn't talking, nothing was there. And put slowly put items into her little black basket. It's as if she was just walking to a store full of ghosts and that nothing was affecting her and that none of us existed now. Very unlike me, I didn't approach this woman at first. I actually was more fascinated at first of what is she doing? I tried to act like I was working, looking at the aisles, seeing what she's going to doing. As I saw employee after customer walk over to police put on a mask and her ignoring it, shopping, texting on her phone, checking nutrition, facts of everything. And as I was looking at this woman, I kept thinking, this is the problem. This is why we're never getting out of this pandemic because of people like her. This is wrong. We're all going to be dead because the world doesn't care. It's people like her who don't care about people's safety and just think they can do whatever they want is why we're all going to die from this virus and why I might Die, My wife might die. I started spiraling big time. What was going to happen? This person represented everything I hated and everything that was wrong with the world and everything I saw go around the world. Who was not masking up and letting this virus surge and still take lives and still infect people for years and years to come. I remember towards her end of her shopping, she approached a check stand. She shared her black basket and put on the conveyor belt. Now, as a policy, the employees are allowed not to service people who are not practicing protocol. The employee looks at her, looks at her groceries and says, miss, can you please put on a mask? She stares at him, then starts back at her groceries and notice that the conveyor belt's not moving. The employee asked again, miss, can you put on your mask, please? I can't check you out if you don't put on a mask. Still staring at her basket, hoping that'll start moving on its own. It's not moving for her. I can tell she's getting more and more infuriated. Finally, the cashier says, look, miss, if you don't put on a mask and you walk away with those groceries, you will be considered stealing right now. Do you understand me? She finally looks at him, full eye contact, probably the most contact she made of anybody, and just screams. The only word she ever said, fuck you. Knocks the basket over. You fuck everybody and fuck this store. That was the most word she ever said. She stormed out. People backed away from her. Not because only she was maxless, but also she might be unstable as well. This was intense. For it to happen. What protest to happen for a rule that everyone's been following and has been okay with for almost a year and a half. I watched this happen. Yeah. Also satisfied she didn't get her groceries. But also, I was still angry. I was still just very, very angry. I'm like this. Who the fuck thinks she is? Who the hell is she? Atheist. Who is this person thinks she is? I can't fucking believe her. Where is she going? As I was approaching the parking lot to see what car she was gonna go in. Not that I had any intention of doing anything with her. I wanted to get one last hateful look at this hateful woman. And suddenly I said, joel, wait a minute. What are you doing? You are about to follow a woman to her car. Oh, my God. What am I doing? What have I become? What's happened to me? I was so angry at this woman that I was gonna do one of the most fundamental wrong things that any male could do. Is Follow a woman to her car. That's when I kind of knew at that point, like, I've gone too far or I had the potential of going too far. I don't think I had any potential of doing anything. But the fact that I made that instinctive move to do that, I had to realize, I can't be doing this anymore. So the pandemic, yes, it took away any societal norms he had, but it started taking away my humanity. As I noticed, I was not happy. I mean, I was literally just angry and scared all the time. I was scared for everybody. You know what? I'm in my 30s right now. Who knows how much time I got? Am I going to live my life here? Being in fear, being angry at the world, not having any compassion for people that live their freedoms? No, I can't live that way anymore. If I want to survive this pandemic, and this is the way I'm going to go on living. It's not living. What's the point of it all, then? This revelation did a lot for me. I was starting to actually be more forgiving and easing people who weren't practicing protocol because I thought that, you know what, we did this experiment before. They're not going to change, so why should I be enforcing the change on them if they don't want to? I have to worry about my own happiness. The pandemic surged on. I started to be more lean with masking, as a lot of people did around 2022, I started to, okay, I'm only going to mask when I'm at work, when I'm at a doctor's office or on public transit. Those are my rules. And you know what? If other people don't obey those rules, that's their prerogative. It's too much effort to make people change. I'm done trying to change people. When I told my wife this news that I feel like I should scale back a bit because I've kept us safe for this long, that I think we're all right, and I think it'll be okay. We're both vaccinated. We'll both do the same thing. I think it'll be okay. She was probably not as accepting of his news at first. She was still very scared, still very paranoid, still didn't know what was going to happen. But I told her, look, I can't live a life like this. We have to make some changes. All right, I'm sorry. But for us to survive and be happy during this pandemic, I need to make these changes. You don't have to do it right away. I'm just gonna do it for myself. These past couple years, I've done everything to keep us safe, and we have not got it. Also, you're doing better. You're actually working from home again. You don't need my help with anything anymore. You're pretty independent. I think we'll both be okay in 2022 at a friend's wedding. Yes, we both caught Covid. Yes, I felt like a loss. But you know what? We actually survived. And we were both okay. We thank you, science. We thank you, vaccinations. I didn't beat myself up too much about that. I'm more to accept it and see that just happen, because it already happened to me around the world. And I figured, okay, I survived. We are fine, you know? So here we are, it's 2025, and the pandemic still rages on. It's not in the news anymore, of course. Who knows what's gonna happen with RFK Jr being the head of it all if we still have vaccinations. But you know what? Whatever's gonna happen, I'm still gonna be on the side of science. Now, when it comes to the woman, you know, the woman in the tan suit, the one who didn't mask up, who I got so angry at and followed her to her car, Am I still mad at her? Yeah. I still think it's wrong what she did. Of course, during that time, she'd been more considerate. But do I hate this woman? No, I don't hate her. She's living her life, doing what she had to do. It's not my business. She doesn't mask up. She doesn't want to mask up because I'm tired of being mad. So what I got from all this is life is short. We have to live our lives, and we can't keep living it in fear. And what's going to happen? Deal with it now, and the rest will happen later.

[Kevin Allison]

This is Risk, and we just heard from Joel Gonzalez. Joel is a writer who lives in San Francisco. He is currently a union organizer for the United Food and Commercial Workers International Union. God bless the people who are rebuilding our unions. So, so, so, so essential to getting back to the people power that we had the last time fascism was on the rise. You can find Joel's substack at Joel Daniel Gonzalez, and you can find him on Instagram at the Joel est. Folks, the next Risk Live show in New York is on March 17th. Tickets are at risk-show.com live. And the next online storytelling workshop that I'm teaching starts on April 8th. You can email me at kevinrisk-show.com about that. And I mentioned also that we were looking for musicians to send us your music to play on Risk. This is something we did a lot more of in the early days and we want to get back into it. So all you indie artists out there, send us your shit. We're looking for songs of all genres, and if you think your song would be especially great for following a story about a certain topic, let us know that too. We're also looking for instrumental music, just like the Ecado Arasmendi track we're hearing behind me now. And we're especially looking for music to score our radio stories. That ambient music, cinematic music, music that sets a specific mood, that sort of thing. So we'll give you a shout out on the podcast and credit you with links on the website. Everything you need to know about how to send us your music can be found at risk-show.com music One more thing. I am so excited to be telling my first story on stage in Bangkok at Bangkok Stories, curated by the wonderful John Englander. That'll be on February 28th at the garage Burger and Grill. And just to be clear, the show is already sold out, so I'm not saying this so you'll come to see that particular show, but I am saying this to say people of Bangkok, we need more storytelling shows. Do storytelling shows invite me to your storytelling shows? Ask me about how we could do Risk in Bangkok and as well as what's yous Story, our curated social events. Let's make 2026 the year that Bangkok becomes what to true storytelling. New York City was in the mid 2000s when this podcast was born. Email me at kevinriskdashow.com if you live in Bangkok and you're curious about storytelling and think there should be more of it here in Bangkok. Okay, that is it. And this episode was directed by Hope Brush and edited by Jeff Barr. Emma Yarbrough's story was coached by Michelle Walson and edited by Hope Brush. Joel Gonzalez's story was coached by David Crabb, edited by John Lasalla and sound designed by by Hope Brush. Thanks to our business director, JC Cassis, our casting director, Cindy Freeman and me, I am Kevin Allison. Folks, today's the day. Take a risk.

[Emma Yarbrough]

Sa. Parents when you visit California.

[Joel Gonzalez]

Childhood Rules if you don't remember how

[Emma Yarbrough]

awesome childhood is, just ask yourself, what would kids do? Dance to a giant organ played by ocean waves? Yep camp in floating tree houses hundreds of feet off the ground? Check. Jump in a big tub of mud on purpose. Call it rejuvenation, we don't care.

[Joel Gonzalez]

Just pack your your fun pants and

[Emma Yarbrough]

let childhood rule your family vacation. Discover why California is the ultimate playground at visitcalifornia. Com.