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- [00:00]
John La Sala
Howdy. I'm John La Sala and I'm piloting the episode this week, but I've actually got a co pilot with me and her name is Kate. She's my wife. Okay, that was her. But before we get underway, we're going to talk a whole lot about dogs on this episode because dogs are awesome and I know many of you will have dogs and so have dog stories. Maybe even Risk worthy dog stories. So hey, pitch them to us. Go to risk-show.com submissions which lays out how best to pitch your story to Risk. And when you're ready to pull the trigger, tell him John Lasalla sent you. Again, risk-show.com submissions we'll be right back.
- [00:51]
Kate La Sala
Today's podcast is sponsored by MIDI Health. At any given time, 61% of adult women say they want to lose weight. But for many, that's easier said than done. If you've had trouble losing weight, don't lose hope. Midihealth uses a deep understanding of women's hormones and a combination of weight loss medications to create a customized plan for each user. Midihealth can help you achieve more effective and sustainable weight loss by addressing hormone imbalances. MIDI can also prescribe proven weight loss medications that help you experience reduced appetite and increased feelings of fullness. When paired with hormone optimization, you're not just managing your weight, you're also supporting your body's natural processes, which means you can overcome those weight loss plateaus that in the past have been so difficult to move beyond. So if you're ready to combine the power of hormones with the power of weight loss medications, visit joinmidi.com today. Discover how this innovative approach can lead you to lasting success. That's join midi.com as we gather with.
- [01:55]
Gail Thomas
Loved ones this holiday season, consider how learning a new language can enhance your connections and enrich your experiences. What are your goals for the upcoming holiday season? Whether it's traveling internationally or connecting with family and friends, a new language can open doors to meaningful conversations and cultural appreciation. With that in mind, there's no better tool than Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program available on desktop and mobile. Rosetta Stone immerses you in the language so you truly learn to think, speak, and understand it naturally. With Rosetta Stone's intuitive approach. There are no English translations, you're fully immersed, and the built in True Accent feature acts like a personal accent coach, giving you real time feedback to make sure you sound just right. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started for a short time. Listeners can get Rosetta Stone's Lifetime Membership Holiday Special. This offer will not last long. Visit RosettaStone.com RS10 that's unlimited access to 25 language course the rest of your life. Redeem your Holiday offer@RosettaStone.com Rs10 today for yourself or as a gift that keeps giving Looking to improve your diet in the new year? Try seeing a personal dietitian with Nourish. Nourish has hundreds of dietitians who specialize in a variety of health concerns, including.
- [03:14]
Victoria Rocha
Weight loss, gut health and more. Meet with your dietitian online and message.
- [03:18]
Gail Thomas
Them anytime through the Nourish app.
- [03:20]
Victoria Rocha
Nourish accepts hundreds of insurance plans.
- [03:23]
Gail Thomas
94% of patients pay $0 out of pocket. Find your personal dietitian@usenourish.com that's usenourish.com.
- [03:35]
John La Sala
Now here's the hey. Welcome to Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. This is John stepping in for Kevin this week. And besides my voice, what you're hearing now is a piece called Lil Miss Boo, something I wrote just about seven and a half months ago now, in memory of a dog that meant a whole lot to me and to my wife Kate. Her name was Boo. Boo Boo for short, plus half a dozen other nicknames of the sort every well loved dog tends to end up with, including Lil Ms. Boo. She died on April 10th just this past year and I composed what you're hearing, trying my best to reflect her spirit in music. I poured my love into it and I hope it did her even a modicum of justice. Now, as the title of this episode heavily implies, this episode episode is all about dogs. If you've ever had a dog, loved a dog, you know there's nothing I can say that properly communicates what that feels like. But suffice it to say that dogs, just like cats, other pets, even some humans, can make a profound effect on your life. We love them, often deeply. They can also be pains in the ass and sources of frustration. They can be the cause of the deepest of heartbreaks. That is to say, they can be full fledged family members. They can truly be loved ones. Today I'm going to share two stories about dogs and the profound effects they've had on their people's lives. But I'll also be joined by Kate in conversation with one of our storytellers, Gail Thomas. Gail is actually part of the Risk team and she coaches many of the stories you hear on Risk, whereas Kate happens to be a dog trainer and a canine behavior consultant with more credential letters after her name than are in her name. She's also a certified companion animal End of life doula, meaning she helps support people dealing with both the logistics and the complicated emotions that go along with the death of their pets. In fact, you may have heard Kate before 4 on risk just over a year ago, when we reran the classic David Crabb brisk story called for the Love of Charlie, after which she and David chatted about his story and all the grief that came with it. Check it out. It was from November 16, 2023. So anyway, on this episode, after each of the two stories I'll very soon be getting to Kate and Gale will chat for a few minutes about each one, and then at the very, very end of the episode, I'll be putting the whole rest of their conversations out there because they each had a whole lot more to say than I felt comfortable squeezing into the episode proper. But you folks who are dog people, that's for you. Now the second story we'll hear is by Victoria Rocha, which she told at our live show in LA this past March. But to kick things off, here's Gail Thomas from just this past May with a story she calls Not Rusty.
- [08:22]
Unknown
So he was an adventurous redhead. We loved exploring random streets in our Brooklyn neighborhood. We had the same spirit, the same sort of serious, sardonic sense of humor. Rusty was my soulmate, or rather my soul dog. He was a senior when I adopted him, and we had eight beautiful years together. Wonderful years. We used to sleep with our butts touching, which was good for my intimacy issues. He was an old guy. He was a senior when I adopted him, so he was slow.
- [09:04]
And people would say, oh, you have.
- [09:05]
A dog, so you must get lots of exercise. And I was like, well, I get outside because he would take these slow steps. But I loved it when he would look up at me like, oh, I wish you could smell this. It's amazing. When I Lost Rusty in 2010, it was the hardest thing I'd ever been through. I couldn't talk for a month. I made a list of like 27 pages of things I don't want to forget about. About Rusty. And then I embraced my freedom because now I could travel. I love to travel. I went to REI and I got a backpack. I got two backpacks, in fact. And I went to Nepal and I hiked the mountains of Nepal, and I went to the Taj Mahal and I went to Siem Reap in Cambodia, and I went to do yoga in Nicaragua. I just, I got to live this big life because when you have a dog, you can't do those kinds of things, especially third world countries. As you may recall, 2020, the pandemic hit. Covid couldn't travel anymore. Now I'm really good at being single, but, you know, in the 10 years between losing Rusty and the pandemic, I would get temp dogs. I would dog sit or I would foster. And so I thought, okay, this is. I can't be around people. I'm going to have to foster another dog, right? I need somebody to sort of just sit next to me. I need somebody to watch me when I wipe off my groceries. I need somebody to watch the scary news with me. I need a companion. So I reached out to my standard rescue organization that I'd worked with before, and I said, I'm ready to foster another dog. And they said, oh, no, you have to adopt. This is a pandemic.
- [10:53]
You have to commit.
- [10:54]
And I really wasn't ready for that. I kind of figured I would wait to get another dog when I was a little closer to death, maybe because I wanted to travel some more. So this was a big deal. And I said, well, don't you have any like old dogs on their last couple years or something? And they said, well, we'll see what we've got. And they started sending me pictures. But then they actually narrowed it down to one picture and they said, this, this is the available dog. She's one years old and she had these beautiful, soulful eyes, very much like Rusty's, but she was one year old and that's a long term commitment. Don't you have any old dogs? That lay me just a couple years, the pandemic passes and then I can start traveling again. And they said, you have 16 hours to decide. So I thought about it back and forth. I'm like, change is good. Maybe this is time. I really need to care for someone besides myself. And I love those groceries. I need somebody to watch me when I wipe off my groceries. So the next morning I said, well, here's my condition. I have to have a dog that fits into a carry on bag. Because one of what Rusty was so good at, it was traveling with me to family vacations. Because that's my plus one, right? That's my sidekick, my soulmate. But he's gotta be £14 or under to go in a carry on bag so I can travel to see my family, which is located all over the country. She said, no problem. This dog number 16 they called it because she was from a hoarder situation. Number 16 is only ten pounds. She's one years old, but she's ten pounds. And I look at this picture of this soulful dog, and I look at the eyes and I say, oh, God. Okay, okay, I'll do it. Ten pounds, I can do that. So I start looking at little 10 pound dogs on the street.
- [12:37]
I sound.
- [12:37]
I think, this is even smaller than I wanted, but it's okay. Ten pounds. And I wait because it is a pandemic and there's no planes flying. Oh, and they asked me for a name because 16 wasn't what they wanted to put on the adoption papers. So I said, well, okay, she's from Puerto Rico. She was in a hoarder situation in Puerto Rico. I need a quick name. I said, well, how about Desi? Like Desi Arnaz, Cuba, Puerto Rico. Close enough. So two months later, July 5, 2020, I go to New Jersey, to the Teterboro airport. I stand in the hot sun with my mask on and I wait for this plane, a plane of 100 dogs from Puerto Rico that were coming in to be rescued. And one of them is mine. As I stand there, the volunteer with her mask on, and I have my mask on because remember, we're still very scared. She's like hands me this animal, this little creature that I take into my hands. The first thing I think is, you're so sweet. And I tear up. And then I think, oh, wait, this is more than 10 pounds. This feels more like 14 pounds in my estimation. But I'm thinking, okay, 14's still under the limit. We can be all right. So I take Desi back to Brooklyn and she's scared to walk up my steps. But, you know, I know that's what rescued dog. She's new. And then she's scared to walk down the Brooklyn streets. I'm like dragging her down the street to take her to the local park. She parks herself behind a tree in the park. Like, this is where she's staying. This is where I will live forever. And I know, kid, you're going to be in an apartment now. So I drag her back to my apartment, I carry her up the stairs. Oh, and I'm thinking, you know, I wanted a dog to help me with my anxiety. I didn't want a dog that had anxiety. But, you know, I can do this. I'm going to be open minded, you know, and I know that rescue dogs, it takes a little while for them to settle in. Well, like two or Three weeks later, she's not watching me do my groceries. She's not even sleeping in the same room with me. She doesn't like television. She doesn't want to sit and watch the scary news. And I keep dragging her down. And now I'm like, cheering her on, like, you can do it. You can walk down the street. And I'm thinking, oh, God. And then she grows, and I'm like, oh, no. Now, I do not want to be the person that returns the pandemic dog. But I was very clear about what I wanted from this situation. Dog had to be under £14. It had to be a carry on dog. But I'm patient, and Christmas starts to come around, and this is going to be our first trip. So I see, well, let's see how it goes. And it's still the pandemic. And Fauci is still saying all the crazy scary stuff on the tv, so there's no flying. And I don't want to endanger anybody or endanger myself. So it's going to be a staycation Christmas. All right, So I tell my life coach, I'm going to try to make this staycation. I'm going to do everything. I'm just going to do stuff that brings me joy because I've been working too hard. So I'm going to. My plan for this staycation is I'm just going to do what brings me joy. So the day that my flight is supposed to go to see my family in Colorado, we canceled the flight. And Desi throws up. She vomits, which does not bring me joy. And she's acting kind of funny, which does not bring me joy. So I take her to an emergency room in Brooklyn, and it's a pandemic. And it's like midnight at this point. It's freezing outside. And because it's a pandemic, I have to hand little Desi through the. The glass door. They take her from me. And I sit outside in the freezing cold in this scary neighborhood on a vinyl chair, not full of joy. The doctor brings her back after several hours and says, it's nothing. Don't worry about it. She's fine. Well, the bill is not nothing. And she's not my soulmate. She's not my dog. She's not rusty. Desi is not rusty. So I take her back home, and she proceeds to get more sick. She starts to vomit a little more. She starts to get lethargic, and now she's not eating. So I take her to another Brooklyn ER because the last One didn't seem to work out well. And I take her in. I sit on a vinyl chair in the freezing cold in the middle of the night outside. And the doctors call me and they sound worried and they say, we don't know what it is, but we'll keep her for a few more days. Three days in the er, they release Desi. They still don't know what it is. They hand her back to me. At this point, the bills are like thousands of dollars. Now I have pet insurance, but this is not my soulmate. So they said, well, here's a bunch of medication, you know, just do your best. And there's all this stuff and instructions that I have to do. And I take her home and the vomiting stops and the diarrhea starts. So now there's a lot of different forms of dog poop diarrhea, apparently. And I'm taking pictures of all of them because I'm trying to figure out exactly, we need a diagnosis. They say they think this might be ibd, which stands for inflammatory bowel disease. And it's chronic and it goes on forever for like the rest of the dog's life. And I find this Facebook page of people with IBD dogs, and they're all saying, I've never traveled again. I have to say I can't go anywhere. There can be a flare up and it's going to be over. And I'm just thinking, oh, my God, my life is over and nobody's going to take this dog back now. And so I take her to the big guns. I go into Manhattan. So I have picked her up on Christmas Eve from the second Brooklyn er. And now on New Year's Eve, I take her in several miles into Manhattan to the big, fancy, best, like, vet hospital in the world. And I drop her off there and they keep her overnight and they Release her on January 1st with new medication and she gets better. Okay, finally, the good doctors. Now, this is the part of the story when it's supposed to be the Hollywood ending where we fall in love, right? And we're all happily ever after. But she is still not watching me wipe off my groceries. And she still doesn't really want to walk down the street and she still doesn't want to sit with me and she still sleeps in the other room. And she's not Rusty, she's not my soulmate. But it's winter, so I buy her a new bed. She didn't like Rusty's bed, so I buy her a new bed. She doesn't like that. So I buy her a bunch of sweaters. She does like those. She likes sweaters. She likes a lot of sweaters. Desi's a girly girl. Desi likes to have her belly rubbed, and she likes to be brushed. Desi is all about Desi, and I work for Desi. Okay, that's fine. I'm trying my best, and I don't want to be the person that returns the dog. So now it's coming into springtime, and things are opening up a little bit more, and we're going to go on our first trip. We practice the bag, put her in the bag, and she's definitely more than £14. And it's not easy. I'm getting older, and this girl's getting younger. But we go to the airport, and we get through tsa, and as soon as we're on the other side, she pees on LaGuardia's brand new, shiny Southwest Airlines terminal. And I shove her into the bag, and we get on the plane, and we make it to Colorado to see my family. And we get out of the plane, and we go toward the baggage claim, and she poops in front of the Starbucks right by the head. And I'm just like. And I put her back in the bag, and I'm like, oh, man, I am still not so in love with you. And. But it's Colorado, so I think, all right, so let's go on a hike. Let's do a hike. I'm not very optimistic because this girl didn't like to go up the stairs, and she's so cautious. She's so careful. She's just such a delicate thing. But we go to the trailhead, we get ready to walk on the hike, man. I've got her on the leash, and we're at the beginning of the trail head. She looks back at me. She looks forward to the trail, and she starts prancing up this hill, and she looks back, and she smiles at me. And then we get to this creek, like, a few minutes later, and she's jumping from rock to rock in the creek. And when her paw goes into the water, she just smiles more and bounds around. And then we walk further, like an hour later, and we get to this cascade of these big rocks, and she runs up the rocks, pulling me. I can't keep up with Desi. Desi's not rusty. Rusty couldn't have done that.
- [21:42]
He had arthritis.
- [21:43]
He could barely walk. Okay, so maybe we can work with this. Desi and I moved to LA last year, and she's still cautious and she's still careful, but she's more confident, especially on hikes. We're coming up on our fourth year anniversary on July 5th, and just this week, no kidding, we started sleeping with our butts.
- [22:16]
Touching.
- [22:19]
Thank you. I forgot to mention, Desi also has several boyfriends. She's better at relationships than I am. You can follow her on Instagram. I'll give you her a code outside.
- [22:37]
Victoria Rocha
Hi, I'm Kate La Salla. I'm here with Gail. We just listened to her story, Not Rusty, and I am an end of life pet doulas. I have some questions and thoughts about this story because it really resonated with me, especially since John and I lost our soul dog, Boo Boo, just seven months ago. So a lot of what you talked about with Desi not being Rusty is something that I think I'm particularly struggling with. Thinking about getting a new dog in the future. And so I'd love to chat about that a little bit.
- [23:13]
Unknown
Sure.
- [23:14]
Victoria Rocha
So when you got Rusty, did you bond with him right away? I know you said in the story that Rusty was your soulmate and that you had him as a senior dog and you had these beautiful years together, but did you have that connection right at the beginning?
- [23:31]
Unknown
I think we did. I'm gonna get. I'm gonna get choked up just thinking about him. But. Well, the thing is, when I adopted Rusty, I had been having dreams of having a dog, and I had been thinking about it a lot. So it was a very. Like, I was over ready, you know, I was like, I need a dog. I need a dog. I really need a dog. Cause I'm a slow decision maker. Right. So I was like, okay, I need a dog. I need a dog. Must be now. Must be now. And, yeah, I went to meet him and he sat in my lap, like, immediately. And one of the ways we bonded early on was I took him home, and it took me a while. I did walk him because I am a slow decision maker. But I took him home and he was coughing, and I reached out to the rescue organization and I said, I think he's got. Something's wrong. I don't know what it is. And they said, oh, it's just kennel cough. And I said, no, I think it's more. And I'd never had my own dog before as a grownup. And they said, well, bring him in. We'll look at him. And they did an X ray, and he had a diaphragmic hernia. And so Rusty's organs were all in the wrong place. And they Thought that maybe he'd been hit by a car. And about two years before that I had been hit by a car. And so that was one bonding thing. So he immediately went into surgery and basically his life was saved. Like, I only had had him like a week, but they paid for it, which was the difference.
- [24:53]
Victoria Rocha
Wow, that's amazing.
- [24:53]
Unknown
Between the Daisy story and the Rusty story is they had. There was like a money back guarantee that lasted for like a week.
- [25:01]
The first.
- [25:01]
Cause it was only been a week. Right. I'd just gotten him. And so I guess. But he. But I was. And so I remember I went to the vets and he was in a little cage.
- [25:09]
And I did.
- [25:10]
I felt right away. And they told me, he's very serious. And I'm like, that's okay. I'm really serious, you know, And I don't see that as a problem. What's wrong with being serious?
- [25:19]
So I did feel.
- [25:20]
One, I was really ready for a dog. But two. And I liked that he was a sort of a scruffy boy. Like a rough and tough boy. Like, I didn't feel like I had to pamper him the way that, you know who.
- [25:34]
Victoria Rocha
The way that you do it. Does he.
- [25:36]
Unknown
And yeah, he was more like, I'm fine. You know, I'm good. And like, he was like a scruffy Irishman on the other side of the tracks. Like this little, you know, hey, I mean, like, his voice would be like this, you know, I'm fine. Leave me alone. I'm good. You know? Whereas she's more like, hey, I. You know, oh, I don't know.
- [25:52]
I don't feel good.
- [25:54]
Kate La Sala
So.
- [25:54]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [25:55]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah. Had you picked him out before you went to meet him? Had you seen a picture or bio ahead of time?
- [26:00]
Unknown
God, I love these questions. I can't talk about him enough. Yeah, I went on Pet Finder and I saw his photo and I actually. Oh, he was. They had him splayed out with his belly, so it was all belly. I didn't really see. Cause he was adorable, but it was like the belly of a dog, you know, and like, his face was sort of pointed up.
- [26:23]
So I really.
- [26:24]
It wasn't a great photo, actually. But then there were two little white fluffy dogs that they also had. And so I actually kind of went leaning toward the fluffy dogs. But the rescue person was very clever as they are. She brought out the scruffy old dog first and got me all connected to him.
- [26:40]
Victoria Rocha
That was it.
- [26:42]
Unknown
But then she brought out the fluffy ones, and I'm like, nah, nah, I don't need those. They were too. They were too prissy.
- [26:47]
Ish.
- [26:47]
So I. Yeah. And then I took him home that day.
- [26:50]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah. That's great.
- [26:55]
John La Sala
Hey, it's John again. That's just the beginning of Kate and Gale's chat. Check back at the very end of the episode where Kate will ask her how long it took to get to the point of feeling free again after adopting Desi and if she's truly in love with her now.
- [27:13]
Unknown
We'll be right back.
- [27:16]
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, like Aloe Allbirds or Skims, sure, you think about a great product, a cool brand and brilliant marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making, selling and for shoppers, buying simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. And the not so secret secret with Shop pay that boost conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going. So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell. Whenever your customers are scrolling or strolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between, upgrade your business and get the same checkout experience as business powerhouses like Aloe Allbirds and Skims. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period@shopify.com OdysseyPodcast all lowercase go to shopify.com OdysseyPodcast to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com OdysseyPodcast I'm Jenna Fisher.
- [28:25]
And I'm Angela Kinsey.
- [28:27]
Victoria Rocha
We are best friends and together we have the podcast Office Ladies where we rewatched every single episode of the Office with insane behind the scenes stories, hilarious guests and lots of laughs.
- [28:38]
Unknown
Guess who's sitting next to me?
- [28:40]
Steve.
- [28:42]
This is my carell in the studio.
- [28:46]
Victoria Rocha
Every Wednesday we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests. And we'll be digging into our mailbag to answer your questions and comments. So join us for Brand new Office Ladies 6.0 episodes every Wednesday. Plus on Mondays we are taking a second drink. You can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode.
- [29:12]
Unknown
Well, we can't wait to see you there.
- [29:14]
Victoria Rocha
Follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts.
- [29:23]
Gail Thomas
As we gather with loved ones this holiday season, consider how learning a new language can enhance your connections and enrich your experiences. What are your goals for the upcoming holiday season. Whether it's traveling internationally or connecting with family and friends, a new language language can open doors to meaningful conversations and cultural appreciation. With that in mind, there's no better tool than Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program available on desktop and mobile. Rosetta Stone immerses you in the language so you truly learn to think, speak and understand it naturally. With Rosetta Stone's intuitive approach, there are no English translations, you're fully immersed, and the built in True Accent feature acts like a personal accent coach, giving you real time feedback to make sure you sound just right. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to get started. For a short time, listeners can get Rosetta Stone's Lifetime Membership Holiday Special. This offer will not last long. Visit rosettastone.com Rs10. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your Holiday offer@RosettaStone.com Rs10 today for yourself or as a gift that keeps.
- [30:32]
Unknown
Giving when it comes to hiring, don't search for a great talent match with them. Thanks to Indeed. Indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over 350 million global monthly visitors, according to Indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find qualified candidates fast. And Indeed doesn't just help you hire faster. 93% of employers agree Indeed delivers the highest quality matches compared to other job sites, according to a recent Indeed survey, leveraging over 140 million qualifications and preferences every day. Indeed's matching engine is constantly learning from your preferences, so the more you use Indeed the better it gets. Join more than 3.5 million businesses worldwide that use Indeed to hire great talent fast, just go to indeed.com listen right now and listeners of this show will get a 75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility, go to indeed.com listen and tell them you heard about them from this podcast. Terms and conditions apply.
- [31:34]
We're back.
- [31:44]
John La Sala
Hey, welcome back to the Dawgs episode of Risk. That's more of my little Miss Boo music there in the background. And before the break, we heard Gail's story. Not Rusty As I mentioned, Gail works regularly with R Risk, but she also teaches storytelling at her sister company, the Story Studio. Go check that out. Thestorystudio.org but in her solo career, Gail also just completed an extended run of her one person show Patient 13, which was about her participation in a groundbreaking FDA study that gave magic mushrooms to cancer patients with anxiety and depression. I can't tell you how much I Wish I could have seen that show, but Gail's looking to tour it in other cities. So when this episode is over, I know I'll be heading over to patient13show.com to see if it's coming to a city near me. You should too. Other than that, you can find Gail Ealgalethomas on both Instagram and X, or if it's Desi you want to follow instead, she's at Desi with a Z underscore Desi with an S underscore the underscore duck. You know what it'll be in the show notes. So one of our Patreon patrons, Monica Kendall, sent us this note when she signed up to be one of our patrons. She wrote listening weekly or twice weekly since 2013. And I'm not in a place to give, but I'm giving anyways because of how much this show means to me. Thank you, Monica. I know there are countless others out there like you who just love this show that Kevin Allison created over 15 years ago now, along with the truly tireless work of some pretty amazingly dedicated people. We are all in it it for the love of risk. But for our Patreon supporters, we have a new bonus story out right now from Stuart Jacobson, who you may remember from a recent conversation story he told Kevin called Let Them Nosh Cake. Remember that one? Anyhow, we've got a new little story from him and it sounds a bit like this.
- [34:06]
J
I have to interrupt myself and remind everybody here that this was a 1970 and this is New York City and this is before they had laws requiring you to pick up after your dog after your dog defecates in the sidewalk. And at one point I was doing a really effective dip and as I started to scoop I felt something warm and mushy and surprisingly grainy between my toes and I looked down and it was what I thought it was, a fresh pile of dog shit. I didn't know what to do and I just started shaking my foot and all that did was that smeared the dog shit, you know, all around my toes and formed an occlusive seal at the bottom of the sole and the heel and it got into the straps and instead of having tan lines, I had brown lines, I had shit lines. This was no good.
- [35:02]
John La Sala
And there are so many stories and check ins with Kevin and all kinds of other things over at Patreon, plus an ad free feed of the podcast that you can plug right into your regular podcast app, all@patreon.com risk Next we're going to hear from Victoria Rocha, followed by Kate and Gail again, who have lots to say about her story. And that story is called Sophie's Freedom.
- [35:42]
Unknown
So my mom adopted a dalmatian for me and my brother right after my parents divorce. I would have been about six. My brother would have been about eight. And this dog was supposed to play this role of comfort in a time of chaos in our lives. Because none of us were adjusting well to the divorce. My mom was suddenly thrust into this primary parent role, which is already difficult with two young children. But my older brother also has down syndrome, so it has its own complexities around it. And then here is my brother and I getting shuffled back and forth between my mother's house and my father's house every other weekend, where at my mother's house, I get to be a sister, but at my father's house, I get to play my brother's second mother, because my dad just had very little interest in getting to know his son. And so we're trying to adjust to these new roles in our lives. And Sophie the dalmatian was supposed to be the thing that made us feel better, to bring comfort. You know, my mom had these books growing up, like the C. Jane run books. And I remember reading those, and there were images of a dalmatian dog on the fire engine, wearing the hat. Right. I think my mom adopted this dog because she thought we were gonna get the ultimate hero dog to put out the fire in our lives. Too bad Sophie sucked. Sophie was a terrible dog. I mean, this dog ended up being the mirror of our chaos. My poor brother, you know, he's gentle. He sings. He still sings to dogs sometimes saying their names. So Sophie. And he's, like, trying to pet her back quarters, and she just looks at him and sniffs dismissively, like before, like, shaking him off, like he's flies just surrounding her. And then for my mom, who didn't have the skills to train this dog, who didn't have the bandwidth to train this dog, who didn't have the financial means to bring in someone to help train this dog, was spending most of her time screaming at this dog. Stop. No, sit.
- [37:47]
Wait.
- [37:48]
And, like, there was one time she brought home groceries, and this bread, this loaf of bread fell out. And Sophie's super food. Motivated, completely untrained. She pounces on this thing, and, like a snake, unhinges her jaw and just gobbles it down in seconds. And my mom is screaming, no, no. I mean, this woman is a single mom on a teacher's salary. That bread is really worth something in this household. And I just remember her picking up the pieces of slobbery bread bits and bag and kind of cuddling it like a baby. Like, what did this dog just do? And for me, the relationship between me and Sophie was sheer envy. Because my brother, like a typical older brother, you know, he could do no wrong. And suddenly though, I've been thrust into this middle kid role because now we have this baby who's the dog and the dog can do all wrong and yet still gets away with it. Like, what the hell, you poor middle children. I never expected to be in this role where the baby's terrible and yet still doesn't get any discipline. Sophie would get exactly what she wanted, which is food, and then sent outside. And maybe my mother thought she was punishing the dog, but outside was exactly where she wanted to be. We actually had a pretty decent backyard. And that dog would just run up and down the backyard, dig holes, poop outside, lay in the grass, be in the sun. I mean, total freedom. That was her kingdom outside. And all my mom's focus came upon me and I was suddenly like the bad child all the time. Some of it was warranted. I was not an easy kid. Again, those readjustments to divorce hood, you know, I would throw tantrums. I had a babysitter once tell me in adulthood that I used to turn purple in the face. So I really knew how to do it. And my mom again, didn't have the bandwidth or the patience or whatever to really deal with me either. But she would shove me into my room versus shoving me outside. And I would spend a lot of time in my room screaming and kicking my legs and doing all those tantrumous things. And then when I wasn't crying, I was staring outside the window longingly at this dog's freedom, like, oh, I want to be out there in the sunshine. I want to be out there rolling in the grass. I want to be outside of this room. Why does this dog get exactly what it wants but I get nothing? I get to be in here. So I was going to change that reality for me. I was going to be Sophie. I was going to figure out how to be Sophie. So one morning, six year old brain wakes up bright and early. I don't know if there's any parents here, but many of you try to get a little shut eye. And kids somehow still wake up at 6 o'clock in the morning. But instead of immediately going to play and being loud, I tiptoed out of the house. The only creature Seeing me was Sophie, who could care less again, that I existed. Like, I'm just somebody. And I make my way out into the backyard, and it's perfection. The grass is dewy and wet beneath my feet. I remember it being summer and summer in Northern Nevada. This is a place that's near Lake Tahoe. It has kind of that arid air, but you get the smell of pine in your nostrils. I mean, I remember standing out there as a kid, just being like, oh, I get why this dog loves this. This is perfect. So I look around and what else can I do to be Sophie? I don't want to, like, roll in the grass because I just said, it's wet. It's beautiful, but it's wet. I'm not much into digging holes. So around, like, right at the corner of the house is a large column tree. And I find my way behind that column tree because I figured out what I can do to feel just as free as Sophie. And I have this thin pink nightie on, princess type nightie. And no underwear, because just so psa. For those that don't know you shouldn't wear underwear at night. You really gotta air things out. And you should start those habits early with your children. So I didn't have on any underwear. And I lift this nightgown up delicately up to my nipples, and I squat to the ground, and with one elegant push, I take a shit. And it's perfect. I mean, I remember looking at this turd and just realizing, like, oh, it's like, perfectly cylindrical and healthy. I'm very proud of it. Even at six years old, I'm like, this is freedom. This is freedom. Shitting outside. It's wonderful. And that's all I needed. I mean, I've hit the pinnacle. I've rebelled against my mother. I know what this feels like. I walk back in, I don't even remember going to the bathroom and wiping. I'm pretty sure I was happy. And luckily, I had reminders of that turd for, like, weeks to come because I'd walk by it and grass would grow tall around it, much taller than anywhere else. And in the yard. So that tells you just how healthy it is. But ultimately, Sophie doesn't make it in our family. My mom sends her to the ranch, and that is not a metaphor to the farm. She really did go to a ranch. It is northern Nevada. My mom threw in the towel. She couldn't handle it. And she knew Sophie needed a better life elsewhere. So my mom, though, has to put the yard back together, and that includes shoveling up pieces of poop, which turns out included my own. And my mom really did this without question. But I ended up talking to her about this story in adulthood and just cluing her in here. I am 30. How old am I? 37 years old. And I said, hey, I'm going to tell this story about you. Do you remember Sophie? And her only words were, oh, my God, that dog was crazy. And I said, I know. Do you know your daughter was also crazy? And I told her about taking a dump in the backyard. And she said, oh, I didn't realize. And it was in that moment. So we've come all these years forward, right? My mom and I and my brother and my dad. I mean, this is. Families are complicated. Some family members, you choose not to be around anymore, like Sophie the dog. And maybe some of you have chosen other people, hopefully not pets. So no animal lovers come for me on this story. But maybe you've let other people go, but then you have those family members who you stick by with. Right? Even when you have to shovel each other's shit. And as much as my mom has shoveled mine, I've also shoveled hers. So we've come a long way from six years old. Luckily, she's not shoveling actual shit for me anymore. Thank you.
- [44:57]
Victoria Rocha
So, Gail, after hearing Victoria's story, the first thing that jumped out to me between her story and yours is sort of this common theme of disappointment or missed expectations in the dog that they got. Victoria's family got Sophie the Dalmatian. She was supposed to be this hero dog to come in and save the family. But as Victoria said, she was a terrible dog. She was the mirror of the family's chaos. And your story, Desi wasn't the dog that you were hoping to get. She wasn't Rusty. She was the complete opposite of Rusty. Wonder if you have any thoughts about that in terms of sort of common, shared experiences in those two stories.
- [45:42]
Unknown
Absolutely. I mean, it's. Because obviously, dogs are living creatures, so they're not. They're not stuffed animals. So you bring these living creatures into your home, and obviously they're not going to behave exactly the way you want. And, you know, they have their own personality and their lives. And so I think it's the whole adjusting and adapting. And something we talked about a minute ago, too, is, you know, you have to meet the dog wherever it is. But it sounds like meeting that dog where it was, was for a family that's going through everything that they were dealing with. I mean, I can understand that. And she was a child trying to. Oh, trying to, yeah.
- [46:25]
Victoria Rocha
And she said her mom didn't have the bandwidth or skills or resources to train this dog. So the dog spent most of its time being yelled at or being sent outside.
- [46:35]
Unknown
Exactly. It was way more complicated. Obviously, I'm a single woman, you know, I can adjust. But they had an entire family that was already in crisis, and there was a lot to adapt to there.
- [46:46]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Another common thing that I sort of pulled out was Victoria is talking about how she was sort of thrust into this middle kid role and the dog could do no wrong. And she was sort of rebelling against her mother and wanted to be free like Sophie, she wanted to be sent out to the yard. So this idea that the dog was hampering her freedom in a sense where, you know, when Desi was bigger than you expected her to be and, you know, wasn't fitting into all the boxes that you had been clear about saying, I need a dog under this weight. I need a dog who's going to be able to travel. I need a dog to fit all these criteria. And then that didn't work out. And you were also thinking about, like, gosh, is this dog gonna hamper my freedom after having the ability to travel and do all these things? So I thought that was interesting. Two very different scenarios. A child being envious of the dog's freedom, but you also feeling sort of trapped a little bit by the dog that you maybe got.
- [47:45]
Unknown
I mean, it's a big commitment. It's a huge commitment. And you really never know until you meet the dog and take it home. How? What? I mean, you know, you have to feed it, keep it alive, exercise it, take care of it. But there's a lot more details to follow about how that works.
- [48:05]
John La Sala
This is risk. This is once again, Lil Miss Boo behind me. And let me tell you, that music's namesake, the actual Lil Ms. Boo, was often behind me, right underfoot, but a real tripping hazard. But that was just the first few minutes of Gate and of Gale and the first few minutes of Kate and Gail's chat about Victoria's story. And in just a few minutes after the closing music, you can stick around and hear much more from that conversation and the rest of the chat about Gail's story before it. So my thanks to both Gail and Kate for enriching this episode. Oh, and you can find Kate in her capacity as a dog expert on Facebook and Instagram @rescuedbytraining, or read her award winning blog, which is a real treasure trove of dog behavior information@rescuedbytraining.com as for Victoria, she has an upcoming piece of creative nonfiction about frenemies and growing up in Nevada being published later this year in the Sonora Review, the literary journal published by the University of Arizona. So keep an eye on sonorareview.com for that, or I'm sure Victoria will post something about it on Instagram once it's out. Guys, before I go, I just want to point out that the final Risk live show of 2024, and as far as I know, the last one until at least the end of April, is happening in just a few days on December 9th. It's at caveat in New York City, and if you've never been to a live Risk show, you just don't know what you're missing. Stories heard on the podcast are great. Stories seem performed on stage, like just a few yards in front of you. It's a whole other kind of experience. Go to risk-show.com live to get tickets. Do yourself this favor. But if that's not something you can do, then check out the podcast next week, which will be called Live from Caveat 4, featuring all stories told at our show there this past September, including a story from Damian Sperenza, which I'm especially excited about because I first saw him tell this story in person as part of a comedy set. I found him after the show, told him he had to tell that story and Risk. One thing led to another and boom, he's on next week's episode. But that's next week. Till then, remember today's the day. Take a Risk and stick around for more from Kate and Gail.
- [51:02]
Victoria Rocha
So you had eight years together and then you lost him. And you mentioned a bunch of things that I'm also doing how you wrote about him because you didn't want to forget all of those things. And that's actually part of what I'm still doing.
- [51:19]
Unknown
I had a memorial for him two nights, and I invited people that knew Rusty to come over and I interviewed them on camera, which I still have that footage. I've never done anything with it. And I went around and interviewed everyone in my apartment. I mean, I did it two nights. So I captured I had his dog sitter, I had the neighbor downstairs. I asked people to mail me clips. So I started this whole scrapbook of what they thought about Rusty. And I got like on Facebook, I got like 100 comments because I took him with me everywhere. So people did. He did have a lot of friends. So I had this clips and this yeah, I Did a whole, whole thing.
- [51:53]
Victoria Rocha
I love that. Yeah. In my doula work, I help people plan memorials. The crematoriums that do the cremations, some of them have funeral rooms for animals. So before they cremate your animal, you can bring your animal there, they'll set it up, and they'll let you do a viewing. There's a place in New Jersey that does it. But people memorialize their dogs in lots of different ways. So I love that that's how you sort of paid tribute to him and got contributions from everyone else that loved him. Before Barbo and Boo Boo both died, our previous dog, Barbo, died a year and a half before Boo Boo. We had people come through and say goodbye to them and meet them. So when Boo Boo passed the day before, two days leading up to when we were going to euthanize her, neighbors and friends came through and just sort of of said their final goodbyes and, you know, were there for us. So that was. That was something that we did. So that was really nice. But I love. I love what you did. So when he passed away in 2010, one of the things you mentioned was you embraced your freedom now. You could travel, you could go to all these amazing places. How long between him passing before you sort of had that realization and really embraced that newfound freedom?
- [53:07]
Unknown
Oh, almost immediately, in fact.
- [53:08]
Victoria Rocha
Oh, really?
- [53:09]
Unknown
Well, in fact. And this is where the guilt comes in. I had taken my first international trip in years, the January before he passed. So I was gone for a month, and I had friends watching him. And I remember being in the airport in Bangkok and thinking, oh, I gotta go back to the dog. I mean, even though I love Rusty, but I was like, wow, I do have. Like. I extended my trip an extra week, and then I needed to get back. And then I went on another trip in the summer, and that's when I came back. And Rusty seemed like he was not acting normal. And that's when I discovered that he had cancer in the same area that I had my cancer. So we also had cancer. So there was a lot of.
- [53:50]
Victoria Rocha
Those connections are amazing.
- [53:52]
Unknown
So then the first part of losing him or even discovering his illness was a bit of guilt that maybe I hadn't paid enough attention and that I had been traveling and I wasn't focusing on him enough to see what something was different.
- [54:07]
Victoria Rocha
How long between that diagnosis and when he passed?
- [54:11]
Unknown
Oh, gosh. She said that he had three to six months, and it was ten days.
- [54:15]
Victoria Rocha
Oh, wow. Okay. So you didn't really have a long period of sort of anticipatory grief where you were.
- [54:21]
Unknown
No, I really didn't expecting.
- [54:23]
Victoria Rocha
It happened much more rapidly than.
- [54:25]
Unknown
No.
- [54:25]
In fact, when I took him, they put him on steroids because we were doing little treatments. They offered to do chemo and radiation, but I had personally done chemo and I didn't think I wanted to put a dog through that. And it was only going to give me another month anyway or so. And I went to take him to the vet to pick up the steroids because he wanted to go, even though he was clearly weak, but he always wanted to go on walks. I mean, that's the thing. That's another. He always wanted. If I left the house, he wanted to go with me. So I took him to pick up the steroids and when I walk into the vet, they took a look at him and they said, we need to look at him more closely. And I didn't leave with him. Yeah, I left him there and that's when we put him down. So I was really thrown off by that.
- [55:07]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah, that's hard. The sudden, sudden loss. Our very first dog that we had as adults, Bandit, he ended up passing away from a seizure and he had never had a seizure before. He had this really long lasting seizure and there was no way to pull him out of it. So for us that was, you know, he went from perfectly fine, you know, he was an older dog and big, so he had arthritis and he had other issues, but we never expected. There wasn't any anticipatory grief. It was. He had a seizure at 7:00 at night and by, you know, 9, 10:00 the next morning, we had said goodbye. I think so many people struggle with that sudden loss, but people who have these long periods of anticipatory grief where you're wrestling, caretaking and you're wrestling, is it time? Is it time? Is it time? Both groups of those people can sometimes look at the other and say, oh, you had it easier because you didn't have a long prolonged illness where the dog was suffering and you had to make that choice and agonize with it for a long period of time. And the other camp will say, well, it happened so fast, I didn't have any time to really say goodbye. And so I think, you know, grass is always greener on the other side, you know, in those cases.
- [56:25]
Unknown
Absolutely. And even the putting him down, I mean, I can flash on all kinds of things I should have done differently. But that's how life and death work.
- [56:35]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah, I think guilt and because we are charged with taking care of them. We are always going to second guess those choices, even if it is absolutely the right choice to end their suffering and not prolong it for our own reasons. So after that you did all your traveling. Were you also fostering in between before COVID before you had Desi?
- [56:58]
Unknown
I was. And that's actually kind of what helped me with my grief because I didn't want to adopt right away, even though neighbors were like, you need to get.
- [57:05]
A dog right away.
- [57:06]
No, I fostered and dog sat. First I started fostering. I fostered like 13 dogs.
- [57:11]
Victoria Rocha
Great.
- [57:11]
Unknown
And I dog sat about the same number. And the last, that's a whole other story is the Paco story, the dog that I fostered that I wish I had kept. And so I also. Actually, I was also comparing Desi to Paco. Poor Desi, she was being compared to Rusty and Paco, who were both boy dogs. And I actually had an astrology session a couple years ago where the astrologer told me that I was better with boy dogs because I actually about dogs. And he said, because again, it's kind of like I was. I like the rough. I sort of do see a. I hate to sound sexist, but I've seen it a little bit of a. Of a tougher guy thing in the dogs that I've taken care of. But it was wonderful because I got to spend time with so many different kinds of dogs, different sizes, different shapes. And I became, I think, I think I'm out now, a better dog guardian than I used to be because I had all that sort of extra experience. Rusty was my first dog, and so I think I was less experienced and maybe even capable of caretaking. And so the fostering and the dog sitting was really wonderful. The fostering became harder after I gave up Paco. I was like, I don't think I can do this again because now I sort of. But then the dog sitting, I made a little money and I got to see the dog again, you know, so we became friends and I got to have multiple times with the dog and got to know my neighbors and so that, you know, I loved that. And I hadn't, except for the pandemic, I hadn't planned to leap into dog full time ownership.
- [58:43]
Victoria Rocha
So why didn't you foster fail with Paco? Just timing wasn't right.
- [58:48]
Unknown
Well, I got the adoption papers. I was all set to do it. And my mom got sick and I had to fly to be with my parents. And my dad, well, they weren't particularly supportive of. It was all about, let's take care of mom. Yeah. And the foster organization was pressuring me to sign the papers to make the decision, and I was up, you know, so it was kind of like, I don't know if I can be as good a daughter if I'm adopting a dog at the same time as my mom is sick.
- [59:18]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah. Yeah.
- [59:19]
Unknown
But I think, in retrospect, I think I could have done fine, but they were pressuring me. And Paco went to a very rich family. But there's a whole story there of him driving away and the window going up on the big suv.
- [59:33]
Victoria Rocha
Oh, gosh.
- [59:34]
Unknown
Like, it's as he drove. And then I went to visit him a month later because I missed him so much, and I just wanted to see him. And the new owner let me do that. Paco came up to me, put his paws around my leg, and wouldn't let go.
- [59:47]
Oh.
- [59:48]
And the owner was trying to get Paco to get on the couch, and he wouldn't go. So that didn't help. That's a whole. Obviously, that's another story. I mean, I didn't have enough time in the risk. You know, this is the thing about storytelling, right, Is you have to decide what to cut and what to leave. But poor Desi came into a lot.
- [60:10]
Victoria Rocha
Of being held up to other dog standards.
- [60:14]
Unknown
Two standards. She looks a tiny bit like Paco, so there's that.
- [60:21]
Victoria Rocha
So the whole, you know, Desi origin story and getting her and sort of not fitting your expectations and having a little bit of disappointment of, you know, she's not rusty. She's not rusty. I think that resonates with a lot of people. Just having a dog that you loved so much. I think it's impossible to not get another dog and not compare it to a previous dog. I see that in my training clients all the time. Like, well, I've had German shepherds all my life, and none have acted like this. Or I've had golden retrievers my whole life, and this is the first one that does these things. And so there's always this comparison of the dog you have and the dog that you loved so much that you no longer have. Do you think you have? Because Rusty passed away so long ago now, do you think any of that distance is coloring his sort of perfection in your mind, or do you think that was actually genuine? Because I find that my clients, at least, you know, They've had dogs 20 years ago, and they're comparing their new dog, and I like, oh, my previous puppy never peed on the floor. I'm like, no. Your previous puppy obstacles peed on your floor. But I think enough time passes that you tend to think of these previous dogs as these perfect angels. You know, I'm wondering if you have any perspective on that with the distance that we now have.
- [61:51]
Unknown
That's a great question. Actually, Rusty did pee on the couch a number of times. He lifted his leg on this couch, the whole couch. It was a blue velvet couch, and it had basically the whole rim of the couch was depressed. Peed on velvet. But I, you know. So, yes, I think there's a little bit of that. And, you know, like I say in the story, you know, Desi hikes, and Rusty didn't hike, and Rusty was never able to hike, so I guess that was that. But, you know, I think there's also maybe the first. That you never forget your first kind of thing. And so he was the first dog I had as an adult.
- [62:29]
Victoria Rocha
And, yeah, I did like the trajectory of things of, you know, she's not rusty. She's not rusty. She's not rusty. And then your story about going to Colorado and hiking and how she was just getting in the creek and jumping rock to rock all happy and running up the rocks and how you were having trouble keeping up with her. And yes, she wasn't Rusty in that situation, but that was a new thing that you hadn't experienced with him. That moment. At least I interpreted it made you finally see her in a different light. That, yes, she wasn't rusty, but she had her own unique qualities that you could potentially love, you know, grow to love.
- [63:09]
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, from a spiritual side, you just. It's hard not to wonder if I didn't get the dog I wanted. I got the dog I needed, you know, because she is. Does require more cheerleading and more. She's very sensitive. I told you a minute ago. I mean, when I was playing my story again, to remember it so we could talk about it. I looked over at her because it was so she could hear me talking about Rusty, you know, and she looked concerned. I mean, her eyes are so wide, and she. She really has these vulnerable big eyes. My friend says she has holly berry eyes. And. And so I do. I have had to become more nurturing in a very, like, it's okay. Like, I do baby talk all the time. It's okay, Daisy. It's all right.
- [63:53]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah.
- [63:54]
Unknown
And I. And it helps. But, you know, so maybe that's a part of myself having. I'm not a parent, you know, so maybe that's a part of myself. I needed to work On, Yeah.
- [64:04]
Victoria Rocha
So when you took that trip to Colorado, you said you still were not in love with her, but when you closed, you said that you had started sleeping with your butts touching, which I thought was lovely, but that took four years to get to that point. Do you feel like. Like you are in love with her now?
- [64:22]
Unknown
I do, I do. And I. The funny thing is, I mean, it just keeps changing. Right. Because I recorded. I told the story several months ago. And I mean, even writing the story, I think I started to give her more attention when I was writing the Risk story because I was thinking about her more. And actually that's when our butts started touching and then. And then actually went through a phase where she went back to the other room and started sleeping in there. But then I really thought about it and I said, I think the love has to come from me first. I can't make her start it. Paco did start it. He was like, I love you, I love you, I love you. But I was like, now this one, I have to earn it. And so I really kind of dug in even deeper after telling the story. And it's remarkable. I was just thinking, in the last two weeks, I mean, now she sleeps all different positions in the bed. She's back in the bed and she was a little bit sick a couple weeks ago, and I took her to the er. I mean, we've been to the ER way more than I want to be, but I'm like, I think I'm sort of over worried about her. And so I think we're even closer now than when I told the Risk story, actually.
- [65:30]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah, that's great. Yeah. You know, when I work with my fearful dog clients, I encourage them to love the dog on the dog's terms. So we tend to have an idea of how we want to love a dog. We want to hug them, we want to snuggle them, we want to do what we want to do. But is that what that dog needs or what that dog really wants? And I think if we sort of approach it from what is this dog going to most benefit from? What do they need at this moment? It builds that trust, it builds that relationship, and then it becomes reciprocal. When they see that you're not forcing yourself on them or you're not forcing them to do things that you want to do that maybe they don't want to do, then they start to trust you a little bit more to keep them safe and to really connect with you. And it opens that relationship a lot wider than it is. If we're just very narrowly focused on what our expectations are going into it.
- [66:24]
Unknown
100%. That's absolutely. And then, ironically, I mean, she's probably cuddling with me more than she used to because I actually started going into the other room. I have a small studio. So she actually has chosen the bathroom as her room. So I go in and lay on the bathroom floor and just tell her baby talk and tell her I love her and tell her how much she means to me. Like, I take the extra time, and now she's coming in and sleeping with me. And I do think it's a result of me meeting her where she literally. In the bathroom where she is meeting.
- [66:57]
Victoria Rocha
Her where she is on the bathroom floor.
- [66:58]
Unknown
On the bathroom floor.
- [67:01]
Victoria Rocha
Well, I love that. And I love that you are now in love with her and that you've gotten to a point where even though she isn't rusty, you're able to love her for who she is and that she's bringing you joy and happiness finally. Even though she wasn't bringing you joy and happiness through all those ER visits.
- [67:21]
Unknown
Yeah. But, no, she means the world to me, and I'm a better for it.
- [67:26]
Victoria Rocha
Great.
- [67:32]
Unknown
One of the things I found interesting, too, about her story is, you know, how a dog forces you to look at yourself and your life. And so, in my case, particularly being single, I don't have another person or creature in my house. So if I look over at the dog and she wants to go out and I want to sit down, you know, I don't want to go out, and I'm not ready for, you know, I have to come home sooner than I want to. But in her case, you know, the dog made her realize she didn't have freedom and that she wanted to go in the yard and that she wanted to do all these things. So having that extra live creature around also sort of turns a mirror on yourself about, well, am I doing what I want? And since she's a kid, she already doesn't have freedom because she's a kid. So I thought. But I loved how she found her way of dealing with it, of being free.
- [68:26]
Victoria Rocha
Yes. Very free.
- [68:27]
Unknown
She found a way to match Sophie's freedom.
- [68:32]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah. And I think the big difference you mentioned in your story about not wanting to be the one to return the dog. You were gonna stick it out. You were gonna figure out a way to live with this dog. But at the end of Victoria's story, they sent the dog to a ranch. A real ranch, not, you know, not a farm upstate, but a real ranch where the dog could live out probably a better life than she was able to live with Victoria's family. You know, why were you so drawn to that when this wasn't the dog that you expected or really wanted? What was the difference there, do you think?
- [69:09]
Unknown
Well, I mean, I definitely thought about what it would be like to give her back. I thought about it a fair amount in the beginning particularly. I mean, you know, I was like, well, maybe it'd be better for her too, you know, because she's so sensitive and I'm not sensitive enough for her. So I did think about it. But it's funny, I don't even know if I was really serious when I thought about it or if I just. It's almost like I never had to answer the question because we did gradually fall in love. And I've thought many times because I haven't been out of the country since I got Desi. I've traveled very little, actually, because I'm also visiting my mom, who's elderly a lot. So I have. I was right. I don't have a lot of freedom right now to travel, but I've looked into taking dogs abroad. I want to take her to France maybe. And I'm meeting more friends who can take care of her. And I just. I guess I've had. One of the thoughts I've had is it's not the run around free life, but. But it's also a really valuable life. And there's things that she is teaching me about myself that are maybe more important than going to Thailand right now, you know?
- [70:18]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah. And I have clients because of my line of work that sometimes they do settle on re homing or surrendering or even in some cases, behavioral euthanasia if it's a really aggressive or difficult dog. And those are never decisions that are taken lightly, but sometimes they are ultimately the right decision for that family and usually that dog. So even though Victoria's story ended with them not providing Sophie a long term happy life, it sounds like it was the best choice for everyone involved in that situation.
- [70:56]
Unknown
Absolutely. I mean, I think there is a lot of shaming out there sometimes about. Because I actually even thought about a friend of mine who I thought, if I give away Desi, my friend is going to never forgive me. He's going to be so mad at me. And I thought about people on Facebook, I'm going to where's the dog go? Why is your dog gone? I was like, I thought about what other people would say. But I ultimately do believe that what's best for the dog is not necessarily the. You know, a dog shouldn't be in a place where it's not able to be itself and have. I mean, it sounds like in her story that it was best for everyone. What happened was best for all sides.
- [71:31]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah, that was my sense that this dog was spending a lot of time sort of being isolated outside, and she seemed to enjoy being outside, but she wasn't getting a lot of her other needs being met. And often, you know, people have babies to save a marriage or they get a dog to fix a problem, and it doesn't usually end up well. So I think bringing her into that situation where she was acquired specifically to fill this gap that was now missing because of the divorce probably wasn't setting her or anyone up. Anyone else up to succeed in that situation.
- [72:13]
Unknown
You know, it's a funny question, and I don't know. We'll never know. The answer is, like, if they had a different dog that had been really easy relatively, would that have been a different outcome? I mean, but at the same time, I mean, I love what you say about meeting the dog where it is. One of the big things I learned with Desi and even in Victoria's story, is you kind of need to be more open than, this is what I need from a dog, because they do have their own personalities.
- [72:40]
Victoria Rocha
Yeah. Yeah. It sounded like she picked Dalmatian because she had had those See Jane Run books, and she had sort of a prescribed idea of what a Dalmatian does. And they're firehouse dogs. There are these dogs that are heroes, and that's what that family needed at the moment. But that wasn't the dog that they needed at that moment. Well, thanks for chatting with me today. I've loved listening to both of these stories and having a chance to chat with you about both of them.
- [73:10]
Kate La Sala
It was fun.
- [73:11]
Unknown
It was fun. I like to anytime. The changing of seasons can affect how you feel.
- [73:28]
Kate La Sala
One in five people experience some form of depression no matter the time of year.
- [73:32]
Unknown
At the American Psychiatric association foundation, our vision is to build a mentally healthy nation for all. Visit mentally healthynation.org to learn more.
- [73:41]
John La Sala
Hey, folks, there's so much more of.
- [73:43]
Unknown
Risk in the holiday season. Risk is always publishing new episodes and.
- [73:48]
New stories as well as holiday favorites. This holiday season, don't forget, click on Risk.