Mixed Feelings

Summary

RISK! Podcast — Episode: "Mixed Feelings" (July 16, 2026)

Host: Kevin Allison

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Episode Overview

This special episode of RISK! titled “Mixed Feelings” revisits three standout true stories from live shows, each delving into moments when the storytellers found themselves wrestling with inner voices, identity, and the unpredictable complexity of emotion. Host Kevin Allison sets the stage with warmth and irreverence, guiding listeners through tales that span adolescent awkwardness, spiritual searching, and the raw journey of addiction and self-acceptance.

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Key Stories and Discussion Points

1. "Wet T Shirt" by Vicki Tollemache

(Start: 07:14)

Summary

• Vicki, a self-described outsider among her wild punk rock peers, recounts a hilarious and cringeworthy experience from her teen years—a quest to eliminate her reputation as the “awkward girl” by orchestrating her first kiss.
• The narrative is laced with humor and self-awareness, as Vicki navigates her strict British upbringing, her safe distance from the sex-and-drugs culture of her friends, and the pressure to fit in.
• “Boner,” a younger, notorious boy from her scene (famous for dubious claims and antics), becomes the agent of her rite of passage.
• The encounter, which takes place in a backyard tent, unfolds with Vicki’s extreme discomfort, culminating in an iconic and awkward question from Boner that still haunts her (“Do you like it north or south?”).
• Years later, she discovers Boner wasn’t even on drugs that night—he lied out of insecurity about his own inexperience.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• First Marijuana Experience:
  “I got high, and we got locked out of the house, and I was thirsty, so for some reason I drank pool water…In my high state, it sent me into this huge anxiety. And I demanded that they call an ambulance because I was going to die.” (08:23)
• Crush’s Claim:
  “Boner says to my friend Liz and I, he’s like, ‘You guys, I ate out like 115 girls in this half constructed building. It was a future Fuddruckers.’” (11:48)
• The Tent Encounter:
  “He flips me over on my back and then he whispers to me. So cringeworthy. He whispers to me, do you like it north or south? And I scream, north.” (15:09)
• The Aftermath – Revelation:
  “He told me I was doing acid because it was the first time I’d ever kissed a girl. And I figured that if it went really badly…I could just tell them, ‘Oh, I was on acid, and I didn’t know what I was doing.’” (18:39)

Tone & Style

Vicki’s self-deprecating humor and vivid sense of adolescent drama captures the agony and absurdity of growing up, feeling out of place, and desperate to belong. The story is both laugh-out-loud funny and unexpectedly touching.

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2. "Conversations with God" by Kevin Allison

(Start: 19:55)

Summary

• Kevin shares a deeply personal story from his “belly of the whale" period—a decade after his comedy group, The State, disbanded, leaving him adrift and struggling between odd jobs and self-doubt.
• In search of guidance, he becomes obsessed with self-help book titles and ultimately tries “automatic writing” inspired by Neale Donald Walsh’s Conversations with God—seeking answers and direction from the divine, or possibly just his own subconscious.
• The resulting “conversations” toggle between genuinely insightful to hilariously mundane or useless, reflecting both the sincerity and skepticism with which Kevin approaches faith and self-exploration.
• Ultimately, Kevin finds comfort and identity in the act of reaching out—accepting his imperfect search for meaning and self-compassion as its own form of grace.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Self-Help Obsessions:
  “They had such great names like Get Out of Your Own Way, Think and Get Rich, Awaken the Giant Within…One night I actually found myself there thinking…I don’t know if I have what it takes, but if there’s a book called What It Takes, that might help.” (21:24)
• On Spiritual Journaling:
  “You’ll experience fulfillment only to the extent that you risk getting crushed again. And you’ll only rise to those risks by surfing on love and faith in yourself. And I said, and in you. And God replied, ‘Either way, the pen is in your hand now.’” (28:39)
• God as Editor:
  “Some of God’s advice is wonderful. And some of it is suspiciously Neil Donald Walshy sounding. But some of it is absolutely terrible…At one point he’s advising me to look for any job in any way related to arts and entertainment…Even then I ignored it. I knew it would not be very practical, it would be very catastrophical because I lack the working in an office gene.” (29:12)
• On Self-Definition:
  “You’re not a cater waiter. What are you? And I write: an actor and a writer. And God says, no, no sweet pea, you forgot the verb. And I say, I am an actor and a writer. And God says, most wonderfully. Excellent. The finest thing written in this book so far.” (32:48)

Tone & Style

Kevin’s tale is shot through with characteristic wit, brutal honesty, and an endearing vulnerability. The story holds the tension between cynicism and faith, humor and longing, ultimately landing in a space of hopeful introspection.

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3. "Animal" by Melina Williams

(Start: 41:21)

Summary

• Melina offers a searing, visceral account of her experience with alcoholism, detox, and the long psychological battle for sobriety.
• In vivid detail, she describes her withdrawal-induced hallucination: a four-foot hyena named Bubbles, representing the persistent, destructive voice of her addiction.
• The hyena remains with her for years—at first a tormentor, then an object of combat and, finally, integration.
• Melina consults friends, therapists, spiritual leaders, and ultimately embraces the hyena as a piece of herself, realizing “the point is integration.”
• The story climaxes with a powerful depiction of sexual connection, where this “demon” part of herself is finally seen, acknowledged, and even celebrated.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Detox:
  “Alcohol detox is the only one that cold turkey has an 80% chance of having a severe complication. If you put 100 crackheads and 100 heroin people and 100 alcoholics cold turkey on an island for a week…you’d have 100 pissed off crackheads, 100 really annoyed, skinny heroin people, and 90 alcoholics, because 10 of us would have died of seizures.” (41:47)
• The Hyena Appears:
  “In the middle of the hump was a four-foot tall, smelly hyena, breathing and looking at me. And I’m not telling you that I was dreaming. I’m telling you that there was a hyena in my room that came out of the floor and looked at me and said, ‘Hi, I’m Bubbles and you need to get up out of here and go and get a drink right now.’” (43:08)
• Therapists and Shadow Work:
  “I talked to my woo pagan friends who were like, oh, you’re doing shadow work with you? I’m like, yes, yes… I told my friend who was a rabbi…And what she said to me was, ‘How remarkable for you to have an opportunity to see yourself so clearly. That’s a gift.’” (48:40)
• Integration and Sexual Awakening:
  “And so when I did, I realized that what I had felt was a part of myself that I had taken so much pain and effort to push away, that I was destroying a piece of myself. This wasn’t some alien creature. This wasn’t some demon…But when you embrace the parts of you that are really terrifying and really ugly, you start to realize that those parts also have power.” (51:47)
• A Lover Who Sees Her:
  “He shoved his forearm into my mouth and said, go ahead, take it…It was my friend. And she woke up with her ears perked forward and said, who is that? Who is that? He’s very interesting.” (54:29)
• Final Revelation:
  “Destruction’s not the point. The point is integration. The point is being able to find someone who can have you and hold you and your demon and see it all and love it and fuck it and embrace it and consume it and then hold it while the sun never quite sets.” (58:58)

Tone & Style

Melina’s narrative is unapologetically raw, graphic, and poetic. It’s a journey through horror, humor, self-loathing, and, ultimately, radical self-acceptance—a masterclass in turning personal darkness into luminous storytelling.

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Vicki Tollemache (on adolescent awkwardness):
  “I realized I’m like, I have got to just make out with somebody or kiss somebody so I can just not be the awkward person in this situation.” (10:22)

• Kevin Allison (on seeking guidance):
  “You’ll experience fulfillment only to the extent that you risk getting crushed again. And you’ll only rise to those risks by surfing on love and faith in yourself.” (28:37)

• Melina Williams (on embracing the shadow):
  “But when you embrace the parts of you that are really terrifying and really ugly, you start to realize that those parts…also have power.” (51:47)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [07:14] Vicki Tollemache’s “Wet T Shirt”
• [19:55] Kevin Allison’s “Conversations with God”
• [41:21] Melina Williams’s “Animal”

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Structure & Flow

This episode gracefully balances humor, vulnerability, and emotional gravity. Each story escalates from relatable awkwardness, to the existential, to profound reclamation of identity. Through Vicki’s comedic nerves, Kevin’s earnest spiritual fumbling, and Melina’s mythic struggle with addiction, listeners are taken on a journey across the emotional spectrum—true to the episode’s title, “Mixed Feelings.”

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Why Listen?

Whether you’re drawn to humiliating first kisses, creative reinvention, or radical self-compassion in the face of addiction, “Mixed Feelings” offers exceptional storytelling and a reminder that sharing our most vulnerable moments can be the first step toward healing. As always, RISK! proves there’s nothing quite as cathartic, hilarious, or inspiring as hearing people dare to tell the whole truth.

Transcript

[Kevin Allison]

Folks in my 40s and 50s, one of my biggest disappointments has been that no one ever really taught me about skin care. I just come from a generation of midwestern men who were really out of the loop for decades. So in recent years I have experimented with a gazillion skincare products. But I found it's just so overwhelming. There's so many different things I've tried that left me saying, okay, is this doing anything? You know, there's a lot of wrinkles now and the dullness and looseness and the dark circles and bags under the eyes, it stresses me out. So I have to say I'm also genuinely grateful that our sponsor, One Skin sent me their OS1 peptide products for the face and under eye treatment. I'm actually seeing and feeling an unmistakable difference. My skin is brighter and it's tighter, it's softer, it's not greasy. And even the under eye, the tired, dark, baggy stuff is fading away. The thing is, as we age, some skin cells stop functioning the way they should. Longevity scientists call them zombie cells. And One Skin's OS1 peptide was specifically engineered to address those doing something most skin care was never built to do. Their results are backed by four peer reviewed clinical studies, over 10,000 five star reviews. And it was all born of from over a decade of longevity research. One Skin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now. And as you age. For a limited time, try One Skin with 15% off using the code risk. At One Skin risk, that's 15% off. OneSkin Co with the code risk. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun.

[Benjamin Boster]

An army hung on her every word.

[Melina Williams]

My champions, I have sold my chariot on Carvana.

[Kevin Allison]

Carvana.

[Melina Williams]

Twas a lovely suv. An inexplicably queenly offer. They're even coming to the castle to collect it. Tonight we feast. An offer you can feast on.

[Vicki Tollemache]

Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees. Mayfly morning decisions. How about a creamy mocha Frappuccino drink?

[Melina Williams]

Or sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe? Or white chocolate mocha?

[Vicki Tollemache]

Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.

[Benjamin Boster]

Welcome to the I Can't Sleep podcast with Benjamin Boster. If you're tired of sleepless nights, you'll love the I Can't Sleep podcast. I help quiet your mind by reading random Articles from across the web to bore you to sleep with my soothing voice. Each episode provides enough interesting content to hold your attention, and then your mind lets you drift off. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. That's I Can't Sleep with Benjamin Boster.

[Kevin Allison]

Hey, folks, this is Risk, the show

where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share.

I'm Kevin Allison, and every Thursday we

release these special episodes where we look

back at content from our earlier years. This week, an episode that premiered in March of 2014. It's an episode we call Mixed Feelings.

Hey, folks, this is Kevin. On today's episode, you'll hear Vicki Tollemache.

[Vicki Tollemache]

And then he whispers to me. So, so cringeworthy. He whispers to me. Do you like it north or south?

[Kevin Allison]

Now, here's the show. Hello, kids. This is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison, and this is Lee Rosevear behind me now calling today's episode Mixed Feelings. Three stories from recent live shows where storytellers really grappled with the voices in their head and the choices they made about how to look at life. In just a bit, we're going to hear a story that I told at the People's Improv Theater right here in New York City, a recent Risk show we had there. But before that, we're going to hear from Vicki Tollemache a story that she told at the Dallas Comedy House when we were in Dallas quite recently, had a fabulous time there. Amanda Austin was super helpful. And the Dallas Comedy House, all those people in that community, lovely, lovely people, wonderful storytellers. And we can't wait to get back to Dallas. Anyway, here she is now at that Dallas show. This is Vicki Tullemosh with a story we call wet T shirt.

[Vicki Tollemache]

Hi. So summer before I was 15, I was hanging out as a good kid that hung out with all the bad kids. And by that, what I mean is all my friends were punk rock kids. And there were two kinds of punk rock kids. There were the straight edge kids who didn't do drugs or drink. Hence, they were straight edge, but they had a lot of sex. And then there were the regular punk rock kids who had a lot of sex but also did drugs and drink. I was neither of those. I was just friends with those kids. I was kind of a awkward girl, obsessed with the 80s. I wanted to be a gothic kind of Jeff spinning from Fast times at Ridgemont High. That meant I wore a lot of, like, black and gray Ringer T shirts and slip on vans. And I was really into the Smiths, but I didn't do any drugs. I didn't drink and I didn't have sex. So I didn't do drugs because it's one of the first times I smoked pot with my friends. I got high, and we got locked out of the house, and I was thirsty, so for some reason I drank pool water. And then some of my friends convinced me that the combination of pool water and pot, and there was a question whether or not the pot had been laced with formaldehyde was going to be a lethal combination and might kill me. And in my high state, it sent me to this huge anxiety. And I demanded that they call an ambulance because I was going to die. And they told me, no, no, we can't do that. We'll all get in trouble.

[Benjamin Boster]

So

[Vicki Tollemache]

what ended up happening? I was like, well, then will you guys at least hold me while I die? So for about two hours we went through that, and it was nice. They pet my head. And I finally realized, maybe I'm not gonna die. So I went home, I ate an entire quiche, and I decided drugs are just not for me, and so I didn't do drugs. And then with the sex, you know, growing up, I just wasn't that interested in sex. And then no one really wanted to have sex with me either, so it was kind of a win win. And then also, like, my friends had sex, not like they didn't date and have relationships. They just all fucked each other. Like, there was no rhyme or reason to any of. There was no pattern. And my parents are British, and they are very proper. And at a young age, like, if I made a sandwich and left a crumb on the dinner table, my dad would be like, what are we savages, Vittorio, who behaves this way? What is wrong with you? We're civilized humans. Get rid of this. And when I thought of teenagers having sex the way my friends had sex, they seemed like wild animals. And I had been trained to be civilized, and I could not partake in this wild animal sex. Now, it was fun to watch. I like to observe the debauchery. They were interesting. I was a spectator, but I could just never join in. But as high school went along, as it does, all my girlfriends are all having sex with all my guy friends. And we would, you know, you'd stay up late at night, and all the girls start talking, and they would be talking about sex, and then I would just get really awkward, like, oh, you know, And I would Start like reorganizing someone's CD box. Like guys, your Beastie Boys was in the Z's. I put it back here. It's good. And I would try to change the subject, but I realized I'm like, I have got to just make out with somebody or kiss somebody so I can just not be the awkward person in this situation. So the summer before I turned 16, I was like this. I gotta just make out with somebody. I gotta get this over with. But I wasn't doing it because I wanted to make out with somebody. I was doing it so I wouldn't be awkward in these late night spend the nights. So that summer I was in our town center. In our town center. Like people, all the guys would go skateboarding there and there's tons of coffee shops and it was like a place kids congregated. And we ran into this guy kind of new named Boner and Bohner. I was with my friend Liz. And maybe Boner's trying to impress us. And Boner like a little background on Boner Bohner. I thought he was always younger than me because he was like a couple grades below me. But I found out much later that he had just been held back a lot. He always wore a sun visor, but he always wore it upside down and backwards. This was the early 90s. I think that was something people might have done then. Also a year later he would become very famous amongst my friends because he got fired from TCBY for getting caught messages masturbating in the freezer while on shift. So anyways, Boner, you can understand where this is going to come from. Boner says to my friend Liz and I, he's like, you guys, I ate out like 115 girls in this half constructed building. It was a future Fuddruckers. And I remember being like 115 girls. Like in my mind I was like this. We don't even know 115 girls. Like there's no way that's true. But maybe, like, I think I rationalized it. Like maybe he felt up three girls in that soon to be Fuddruckers. So I was sitting there thinking like, you know, if he did that or claims to have done that, maybe this guy might kiss me. And this is probably where I was like maturity wise, I'd let him know that my friend Liz and I were going to be camping out in a tent in my backyard that night and he should come by. And at the time, because no boy had ever been interested in me, I kind of was that. I threw that out there and that he would just never show up because he was coming to someone's backyard to a tent at 2 in the morning. Lo and behold, 2 in the morning rolls around and I hear twigs snapping. And Boner is up on the tent. And so there's this part of me that all of a sudden is like,

[Melina Williams]

oh, fuck, this is.

[Vicki Tollemache]

Now something's gonna happen. So my friend Liz tries to be real, like, hey, guys, you know, I think I'm just gonna go for a walk down by the lake. And she leaves me and I'm like, what 15 year old just goes for walks down by the lake at, you know, two in the morning, like she's in some Nicholas Sparks novel. So she leaves and I'm like, fuck. And I'm horrified. And I've never been alone with a guy. I'm alone with this guy. And so I don't know what to do. So I just curl up into a ball on the ground in the tent. And he takes that as a cue to curl up around me. And as he does that, so we're like spooning as he does that. He is, like breathing on my neck. And it is hot and it's heavy and it's moist. And I'm like, are you okay? What's happening? And that's when he says to me, I took two hits of acid before I came over. I am tripping balls. And in my mind I'm like, oh, my God, I do not want to do this. You know, I'd always imagined if I did have a first kiss, it would be like me and some cute boy, and we'd be sober, maybe standing upright, and we'd be awkward and mumbling, and then we'd just magically kiss. And now I'm in a tent with Boner and he's on acid and I don't know what to do. So I am like, okay, I'm going to pretend I pass out or I'm asleep. I'm going to play dead and maybe he will go away. So that's what I do. It doesn't work. He is relentless. He flips me over on my back and then he whispers to me. So cringeworthy. He whispers to me, do you like it north or south? And I scream, north.

[Melina Williams]

North.

[Vicki Tollemache]

Because south. I mean, like, I've never had my first kiss and some guy's gonna go down on me. All I can think is my good friend Mo, when we were kids, ate a girl out at a party on a dryer while he was in cycle, when he was 15 and didn't kiss a girl till he was 18. And I always remember being like this. That's weird and sad. So I'm like, north, North. Cause I can't tell anybody. Yeah, No, I never kissed a guy, but Boner went down on me. So Boner, after I screamed north, proceeds to pull my, like, 1980s ringer t above my head, but leaves me in it. So the shirt is covering my face and my arms are stuck up above my head. And then he starts to kiss me through the T shirt, like, T shirt. And his saliva, like I mentioned, is hot and moist. The teacher just began to absorb all of his saliva. So I just feel it spreading across my face. And in my mind, I'm like this. What are we doing? So I pushed him off of me. I get up. I'm like, I gotta go check on Liz. You know, you can't leave your girlfriend just down by the lake. And I just bail. I go down to the lake. I tell Liz what's going on. We wait a while.

[Melina Williams]

She's like, he'll just leave.

[Vicki Tollemache]

We get back, he. He's gone. But now I'm, like, in, like, PR mode, where I'm like, oh, my God, Boner's gonna tell everybody. All my friends are gonna find out about this. This is horrible. And I had done this just for the story. I didn't do it. Cause I wanted to do it. And I realized, like, I'm never telling anyone this story. Like, no one can know about what just happened. I spend the next few weeks really nervous. Like, anytime my friends say anything weird, I'm like, oh, my God, do they know? Do they know? Unfortunately. And I was always secretly thankful. Boner seemed to never tell anyone. He never bragged about this weird night. So no one ever knew. I told my friend Liz knew about it, but she wasn't from that town. And I also told my best friend Danny a little later on, who loved it. He laughed and laughed and made me feel better. And even to this day, he still, when him and I get together, like, late at night, will be like this to me. North or south, so perfect. But a few years later, there's a little twist to this. So that was like, early mid-90s. So this is like late 90s. And by this time, my friends are really into drugs. And they want to go no longer to punk rock shows. They're punk rock kids. They want to go to raves because they want to get acid or ecstasy or they want to do both in candy flip. They want to do a lot of drugs. So I take them to raves. We pay 10 or $20 to watch other people tweaking. And then one night, we go as a big group, and we're all there, and I'm again, not doing any drugs. I'm just making sure everyone's having a good time. All of a sudden, my friend Lauren comes up to me, and she's like, boner is in the ladies bathroom, and he has taken his shirt off and put it on his head like a turban. And he is making weird noises. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go find him. So I go find him, like, what's going on? And he's all sort of scared, and his eyes are crazy dilated. And I'm like, okay, you're not having a good trip. So I'm like, let's take you out to the car. I'm like, the mom now. Like, I take him out to the car. I'm going to quiet him. You know, I'm asking him questions like, so how's your mom and dad doing? Just to get him, like, off this anxiety trip that he's on. And then just out of curiosity, I'm like, hey, Born, why was this trip so bad? Because I'd seen other friends have bad trips. I'm like, I don't understand what causes a bad trip. And he's like, this to me. I don't know. It was, like, the first time I'd ever done acid. And I think that maybe it just didn't react well with my body. And I'm like, boner, it is the first time you've ever done acid. What about that night in the tent when our bodies were melting together? And he's like, I lied to you that night. I told you I was doing acid because it was the first time I'd ever kissed a girl. And I figured that if it went really badly and you told everyone how bad I was, I could just tell them, oh, I was on acid, and I didn't know what I was doing. So for years, that first kiss story, like, haunted me. But then that night, when he admitted to me that he wasn't on drugs, in the end, we really were those, like, two sweet, awkward kids just kind of sharing a kiss through a 1980s Ringer T shirt.

[Kevin Allison]

That you'll always give me a bonus. Yes, you'll always, always give me a boner. In my early 20s, I was on TV, and in my late 20s, I was not. My late 20s were what I like to call my belly of the Whale period. Like in the myths and fairy tales where the hero is still alive but very trapped in the gloom and murk and running out of air. And I was in that cool dark place for about 10 years. You know, like Pinocchio and Jonah, they bust out of there respective fishes in like a couple of paragraphs. But me, I mean, if you have to spend like a decade not knowing exactly what you're doing with your life, some part of you might just be being dramatic. Anyway, there's a lot of stories that I have from that period because after all, it is kind of exciting sometimes when your life is, you know, frustrating. Falling to the floor in shattered pieces. When the stage my comedy group broke up, I didn't know how to go solo. You know, I was afraid of agents and managers, afraid of being judged and rejected by them. And I wasn't sure what my comedic voice should be. I just thought that, well, I'm so weird that middle America would probably not get me. Or at worst I might just be flat out too mediocre. So I'd take these survival jobs paying anything from like eight to eighteen dollars an hour, and I'd still get recognized. While I was doing these things, one night I was serving champagne at the Grammys and Sarah McLachlan walked up to my bar and she said, oh my God, what are you doing here? And Aretha Franklin was standing right next to her. And she turned to Aretha and said, oh, he's a very successful comedian. And Aretha said, mm. Now, in those days, I had become obsessed with self help books, or at least really their titles, because basically what I would do is I'd buy a book, barely crack it, and pretty much only remember its name. But they had such great names like get out of your own way and think and get rich and awaken the giant within. They all kind of sounded like chipper tips from God. One night I actually found myself there thinking, I don't know if I have what it takes, but if there's a book called what it takes, that might help. Well, of course there was, but that's the only thing I remember about it. So one day in the dead of winter when I was consistently down to my last 50 or 60 bucks, the landlord had recently slipped a little piece of paper under my door that said that if I didn't pay my back rent, the next piece of paper under the door would be an eviction notice. That was when I saw another interesting title on the shelf at Barnes and Noble. Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsh. And according to the back jacket, it was Chipper Tips from God. This story begins with the author saying that he, too, had bottomed out in life. And one night, he wrote an angry letter to God that kind of ended with the thought, what have I done to deserve this? And then he says, abruptly, the pen began moving on its own. Out came, do you really want an answer, or are you just venting? And Walsh said I was not writing so much as taking dictation. Well, now, I don't know why this seemed like such a new idea to me. Because, after all, you know, supposedly Moses and Muhammad had done something very similar. But those two seem like special guys. You know, I guess I could just relate better to a guy who looked like Kenny Loggins and lived in Portland. So I loved it. What if you had someone in your life who had all of the answers in? Nothing more complex than your ability to allow your hand to move across the page the way it seems to want to now. I'd been raised Catholic, and in grade school and in high school, I was extremely devout. In college, I kind of strayed. I became a little distracted by marijuana and rim jobs. But by the age of 25 and 26, when the state had reached this precipice where it looked like we might just be about to hit the big time or hit the fan, I started praying again, like a monk. I'm serious. Three times a day, I would hide on my knees in a closet, a janitor's closet, at MTV and then later at cbs, and just pray, dear Lord, help us make it through this. Just as I had been advised to do by the Reverend Norman Vincent Peale in the Power of Positive Thinking. And when the group collapsed, I landed in that whale belly and I had a new way of thinking. Not so positive anymore that God either did not exist or, worse, did not care. However, a few years later, I'm reading Conversations with God. And this one I read from COVID to cover in a day. Of course, I thought this Neil Donald guy might be the next P.T. barnum, right? But it was more the premise that grabbed me. I mean, if this guy could take dictation from God, why couldn't I? So that night, I took some time, turned the lights out, lit a candle and breathed in the silence for a little while. And then I took that piece of paper, that pre eviction notice, and turned it to the blue blank side and wrote, dear God, it's time I come back. And then I kind of loosened my grip on the pen and just let it kind of trace out the first words that occurred to me. And it said, it's been a while. I said, the last time I was shattered. And God said, you will be again, and I'll still be here. You'll experience fulfillment only to the extent that you risk getting crushed again. And you'll only rise to those risks by surfing on love and faith in yourself. And I said, and in you. And God replied, either way, the pen is in your hand

[Vicki Tollemache]

now.

[Kevin Allison]

When I wrote this, I felt like the veins and arteries in my arms had become strings of Christmas lights. I thought I might be onto something here. I mean, it seemed like a conversation. Something somehow sorta bigger than me maybe seemed to be talking back at me. Suddenly it seemed like possible that the deepest wisdom and the fullest capacity for life love was something I could easily just tap into. And I talked about my fear that these conversations might leave me with bad advice. You know, like the way a mental case might get bad advice from the voices in his head. And God said, another way to doubt yourself. But look, you speak clearly to me sometimes. I speak clearly to you sometimes. Otherwise can't we just keep the channels open? And I say, but why can't we be speaking clearly all the time? And God says, because that would be boring. I say, really? And God says, of course, God and man in constant and complete understanding wouldn't be much of an experience. We need curveballs and interferences. We need time to refrain from embracing. We need time just to experience it all. Okay, in 2013, I look back at this notebook and I can see some of God's advice is wonderful. And some of it is suspiciously Neil dawned Walshy sounding, but some of it is absolutely terrible. At one point he's advising me to look for any job in any way related to arts and entertainment. And he suggests that it would be very practical if I asked my friend Conrad if I could have a job in his entertainment law firm. Even then I ignored it. I. I knew it would not be very practical, it would be very catastrophical because I lack the working in an office gene. One week he insists that I apply for a writing job at Conan o', Brien, even though I'd done that about four months prior. And I had also heard that they were seeking new writers again just around that time. So I spent a week preparing a new packet, but when I went to turn it in, they said, oh, we're sorry we hired that person four days ago. I went back and I wrote in the journal, this notebook is seeming less Godlike all the time. To which he Simply replied, ouch. A little later in the book I'm totally stressed out and God suggests, suggests I smoke a bowl and quote, put on some miles as in Davis. Now if God exists, I think we can all assume that he takes very good care of his copy of Bitch's Brew. But some of this stuff was beginning to sound a lot like stupid and scared me. And even when I was keeping this notebook, I kept thinking to myself, wait, why would God even have a personality? God has tastes and habits. And why is it so hard to peel away from that centuries old habit of referring to God by the pronoun He? But on a more practical level, I can also look back and think of all sorts of things I should have been doing in my belly of the whale period that I wasn't. For example, this show. Why didn't he suggest Risk? Why in that notebook did I not address the fact that I was just procrastinating, that I was avoiding doing what I really loved? That was the thing that no amount of taking dictation could help me around. So as with other get spiritual quick schemes, I eventually quit. And then in the bush years, the screaming right wing Christian sort of God talk seemed to be drowning out any sort of reasonable or compassionate sort of God talk in this country. And I just started drifting further and further away again. However, the other thing that I see when I look back back at that notebook, in fact, the most compelling thing, oddly enough, is compassion. It's a little embarrassing, but also a little touching that on those pages God regularly refers to me as sweet pea. Toward the very end of the journal I've taken up catering. You might recall it's the career path that led me to Aretha Franklin. And at one point God says to me, you're not a cater waiter. What are you? And I write an actor and a writer. And God says, no, no sweet pea, you forgot the verb. And I say, I am an actor and a writer. And God says most wonderfully. Excellent. The finest thing written in this book so far. And I've done most of the talking. There will be other times when you make such statements. Many times. And these are the times that I can hardly contain my love for you. Now in my 40s, I finally accepted that I'm one of those people who can't not believe in God. I can go for six months or a year without actually believing, praying. But I always come back. I always rejoin the conversation in one way or another. You know, I don't know what God is. I don't think that in this lifetime, I will. And in fact I can't distinguish the fuzzy line between my ego, my imagination, or maybe something bigger talking to me. And it seems that even in the most inspired moments, like those first nights with that notebook, the best wisdom I managed to access is imperfect. Maybe a higher power itself is also imperfect, but there's been beautiful moments in reaching for it along the way, like that lit up feeling I felt in my blood that very first night on the back of that pre eviction notice that I was riding on hoping for. God's grace has at least kept me on a hopeful course. And I choose to look at that notebook of my own conversations with God as a reminder that there's enough within that's good to go on about five months into writing the journal, I got tired of this question and answer format, so I felt it was getting a little forced and I decided to let the guy on the other end of the conversation know I'd prefer to go about things differently from now on. And he said, good enough. Then this week when you wonder what the best stand to take would be, when you wonder what way of being would be best, take a moment, take a breath and ask yourself thank you.

When you were languishing in rooms I built value in, Then when set down in funnel form and pulled you in. Folks, if you love Risk, one way you can support us for free is by sharing your reactions to any of these stories at the Podcast Fans Discuss discussion group on Facebook, or by posting on the R Risk podcast subreddit or anywhere on social media using the hashtag I heard it on Risk.

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This is Risk. This is my friend, the brilliant Mike Doughty from his album Circles. Everything Mike does is wonderful. Our last story today comes to us from the remarkable Melina Williams, who you can find at M-O-L-L-E-N a.com here. She is now at the Risk Live show in New York City with a story we call Animal.

[Melina Williams]

Hi, my name is Melina. I'm an alcoholic. Do none of you know what you say? Next. Thank you. I was not one of those pretty polite alcoholics. I was the piss, the bed, wake up day after day in a blackout, drinking a pint of whiskey in the morning to get to the point where I was not shaking so badly that I could not get dressed and then go to work. I was severely addicted to alcohol. Everyone around me knew it and I knew it. For the last three years, I was an alcoholic, but I did not give a fuck until the morning that I almost died and wound up in the ER and said, okay, fine, I need some help. And friends got me into the only free, medically supervised alcohol detox. I don't know if you guys know this, but alcohol detox is the only one that cold Turkey has an 80% chance of having a severe complication. If you put 100 crackheads and 100 heroin people and 100 alcoholics cold turkey on an island for a week, at the end of the week, you'd have 100 pissed off crackheads, 100 really annoyed, skinny heroin people, and 90 alcoholics, because 10 of us would have died of seizures. I was in rehab with homeless people, with prisoners, with one spoiled rich girl from Marin whose daddy had pulled her funding after the last two stints in fancy rehab. The first night I was there, I was passed out on my bed and sweating like a horse. No one tells you that detox is a horrible, terrible thing. As I'm laying in this Bed on this cot, on this mattress. It's covered in plastic just in case I piss or shit that bed, which is likely when you're detoxing. The floor started to bubble and I started to watch it because what the fuck else do I have to do? And over the course of the next few hours, days, minutes, I don't fucking know how long it is, the bubble in the floor starts getting bigger, like the carpet is coming up and I'm looking at it going, this is exciting. And it gets dark outside and I'm laying and the nurses come in to give me meds every couple of hours and, and check my vitals and they walk right over the hump as though it's not there. And I'm not gonna say anything cause I don't wanna be uncool. 2, 3am the hump is now 3 or 4ft high in the middle of my room in the detox. And suddenly it starts crumbling apart as though it were made of dirt or sand or something very friable. And in the middle of the hump was a four foot tall smelly hyena breathing and looking at me. And I'm not telling you that I was dreaming. I'm telling you that there was a hyena in my room that came out of the floor and looked at me and said, hi, I'm Bubbles and you need to get up out of here and go and get a drink right now. And I said, you know, I thought that pink elephants was the thing you got. I saw the Disney cartoon, they were on parade, they were quite whimsical. This was in fact a stinky hyena breathing in my face and explaining to me that I needed to get up out of there and leave and go and drink. And I said to her, hey, I don't want to do that. We almost died, you see, and we're in rehab and I think actually leaving to drink is exactly, exactly what we shouldn't do. And she started pacing and screaming and howling. And hyenas are not polite animals. They do not sit and explain to you. They scream at the top of their lungs and tell you why you need to get up and go. You've proven you could do it. You admitted you were an alcoholic. That's great. You know what we so awesome right now is a pint of Jack Daniels. Everything would feel so much better if you just went out and drank it. Just go and get it. It's right up the street. You don't have to stay here. You're not locked in. It's okay. You're brave and strong and awesome. Let's get the Jack Daniels. Let's get it, let's get it. Let's get it, let's get it. And this was the conversation that I had for the next seven hours. And then by the time the sun came up, she kind of crawled under the bed. I went to the nurse's station, had breakfast, went to a meeting. We had three meetings a day in rehab because what the fuck else do you have to do? And every time I went back to my room, she would come slithering out from under the bed and put her paws on, on the edge of my pillow and say, wow, you made it through another afternoon. That's great. Can we have some whiskey now? And by the fourth day of this, I said, well, I should probably mention this to my counselor. And I said, so, hey, is it natural to have hallucinations while you're detoxing? And she said, oh yeah, you wouldn't believe some of the shit I hear. I'm like, like animals, she says, animals, people, the dead people, all kinds of stuff.

[Vicki Tollemache]

Stuff.

[Melina Williams]

And I said, but they're hallucinations, right? They're not solid, right? You can't touch them, right? So if there was something that was there that you could touch, that would be. She said, just keep taking your meds. And I did. And this is a three week program. And by the end of the third

[Vicki Tollemache]

week,

[Melina Williams]

I was pretty convinced that I was having a psychotic break, that I had lost my mind, that I was not going to spend the rest of my life Talking to this 4 foot tall hyena whose one purpose in life was to kill us, to drink again. And she never got quiet and she never gave up. At the end of the third week, I called some friends to see if I could get some help packing up and going home. And they wanted me to go to a halfway house because they said, your situation is pretty extreme. You're going to need some help. And I said, I have to go back. I have cats, I need to feed them. My friends can't take care of them forever. I need to get a job. And the counselor said, you need more help. It's not going to be safe for you to go out there in the state that you're in. And I packed my bag that last day, put away my stuff, said goodbye to the heroin people and the crackheads, attended my last meeting, took the elevator downstairs and walked out into the sun. And to my left, just out of the periphery of my vision, was this hyena And I could see her in broad daylight, and she was not going anywhere. And we walked across Market street and up Valencia street and past three liquor stores. I made sure to cross the street so I was not on the same side of them as when I went home. I figured that at some point she'd go away, it would stop, and I would go to meetings. And other alcoholics would say shit like, you need to be careful and vigilant about your alcoholism because when you're in here in this meeting, your addiction is out there in the parking lot doing push ups and getting stronger, man. And I'm sitting there going, my addiction is under my chair, chewing at my feet. It's kind of cool that yours gives you a break sometimes. How delightful for you. And I spent the next year and a half visualizing night after night taking a lead pipe in my hands and beating the fuck out of this creature, this foul, filthy, disgusting beast who wanted to pull us apart with booze and despair. And she would laugh because hyenas are tough. And I don't know if any of you have seen, you know, National Geographic fucking any special on any animal in the animal kingdom, and they can take you from rooting for the zebra to rooting for the lion in show to show to show, but I tell you, you have not seen a show that has presented hyenas as charming, wonderful creatures. Never. And so, because I'm a very much in my head person, started researching hyenas. Did you know that 10% of a hyena's body weight is in its heart? That'd be the equivalent of a 200 pound person having a 20 pound heart. They can run forever. They can consume every part of an animal and derive nutrition from all of it. They are fierce. Female hyenas are oftentimes almost twice as big as the males, and they have a pseudo penis that they make the subordinate hyenas sniff. Smell my dick, bitches. They are a strictly matriarchal clan. The women run shit. The women give birth through the pseudo penis. It'd be the equivalent of a man giving birth to his dick. These are not animals to fuck with. And I started telling the story to people because I was too afraid that if I didn't tell someone, I was gonna lose my mind. And I assumed that someone would say to me, bitch, get some help. And the first person I told was a therapist. And I said, I'm not doing that thing at a party where a doctor says, oh, hey, you know, you're a doctor. Can you help me with my problem. But I said, let me just tell you the thing, and if you think that I'm crazy, I need help. I'll go get help. And I told my friend, so I have this hyena. She appeared in my detox, and we hang out now and I try to kill her. And she said, what is your process like with this animal? And we talked about it, and she said, actually, there's a form of therapy, a gestalt therapy, where you remove your shadow self. And I finally said, so do I need help? Am I crazy? She says, no, you've actually saved yourself a lot of money in therapy bills. Just keep talking. Don't do what she says, but just keep talking. I talked to my woo pagan friends who were like, oh, you're doing shadow work with you? I'm like, yes, yes. I talked to a friend of mine who was a rabbi. I figured if there's any pragmatic spiritual leader, a rabbi will just be like, honey, I got a number four great therapist. And I told her the stories. I'm telling it to you. And what she said to me was, how remarkable for you to have an opportunity to see yourself so clearly. That's a gift. I was riding on the crosstown bus one day, and it was about a year and a half into this struggle, and I'd had my morning fight with her. And I had this sudden sensation of her being in front of me again. And I looked her in the eye and I said, for the first time in a year and a half, what do you want? And I saw her little shiny black eyes blink and say, I want you to love me. And I'm thinking, I can't do that. You're gross and you tried to kill us, so that's not very nice. And then I said, okay, well, maybe I can do that. Maybe I can at least embrace that, this creature. And so when I did, I realized that what I had felt was a part of myself that I had taken so much pain and effort to push away, that I was destroying a piece of myself. This wasn't some alien creature. This wasn't some demon. And I had taken to calling her that. My demon. But it wasn't. It was just me. And when I looked at myself and I said, okay, you know what? Let's see if we can maybe love this creature. I realized I couldn't. But I could at least try to tolerate her. And so I spent time just thinking about what it meant to be that terrified and that scared and that alone. It's not good to let your ID run the show because your ID does a lot of things, like drink when it's freaked out, and drink when it's happy, and drink, drink, drink, drink, drink until you're a fucking addict. But when you embrace the parts of you that are really terrifying and really ugly, you start to realize that those parts, parts also have power. And because I'm a storyteller, I figured I wanted to tell this story to other people. But I was afraid, because what do you say to someone? How nice to meet you. So you'd never guess who my imaginary friend is. And she's not imaginary. And so to remind myself of the reality of what was happening to me, I got a tattoo, which I have to this day, of course, still, which is a hyena. It's funny because you don't see hyena tattoos ever, but everyone knows who she is when I show them this ink. And I was in Sweden earlier this year and was asked out on a date by a lovely, crazy Swedish boy who was about 28, so substantially younger than me. So I was like, I am in the cougar zone, high fiving myself on Twitter. I was like, I'm fucking summoned. Fifteen years younger than me. Get some ga. And we spent the day out on a lovely date. And we were about to go into the subway, and he had his arms around me from behind. He was just at that perfect height where he could nibble on the back of my neck and do that super sexy thing. And so I was like, oh, that's really hot. He's nibbling on my neck. And then suddenly, out of the nowhere, he gives me one of these. Kind of growly things, which seems contrived and lame and stupid. Like, people do that all the time, like, sex beast and it's not sexy. But at that moment on that fucking escalator, suddenly it was as though the skin of my back had been slipped away. And it wasn't me responding to his growling, it was my friend. And she woke up with her ears perked forward and said, who is that? Who is that? He's very interesting. And mind you, he's Swedish, and they have all kinds of fascinating belief systems. So when I had told him later in the evening, as we were making out and getting kind of hot and heavy, that was kind of turned on in this kind of feral way, he said, well, maybe I'd like to meet your demon. And I said, well, maybe you will. And as we started kissing and making out and fucking, at one point, he was biting me on the neck really hard. Which, as a masochist and as a sexual deviant and pervert, turns me on a lot. And then biting intensified into this biting and scratching and clawing to the point where he had the flesh of my hips squeezed so tightly that I could feel it was going to leave a bruise. And all I could think was, I hope that bruise lasts forever, because this feels so good. And the biting intensified to this biting and scraping and scratching. And I felt as though the teeth in my head started to get a little bigger and I knew I needed to bite him back. And I looked at him and he looked at me and took his forearm and shoved it into my mouth and said, go ahead, take it. And as I continued to make eye contact with him and pulled back my lips and sank my teeth into his arm, my entire body's center and weight shifted and I could see him see us and see me, and not just me and us, but also this creature that I had rejected. And the next few hours of him inside me and around me and us together and fucking in a way that involved not just two human beings fucking in a bed in Stockholm, but some sort of creature fucking another creature who was so proud and delighted to be seen, and not just seen, but accepted in all of the smelly ugliness and all of the destructive beauty and all of the huge, fierce, hot blooded heat that I let go in a way I had never let go before. In spring in Sweden, the sun sets for about two hours between 2 and 4am and it gets twilight and then the sun comes back up. And we spent that time together, alternately cuddling and alternately biting and scratching the shit out of each other. And it was us in a cave that we had created. And I had never felt safer and more seen in my life. And this creature, this ugly, smelly, disgusting, horrible demon that had tried very hard to kill us, laid there with him, seen and present and alive, and loved this person in a way that awed me. And I realized that this was another part of myself that I needed to get in touch with. This demon, this fierceness, as terrifying as it was, was also terrifying because of the power it contained. And he saw that and accepted it and fucked the shit out of it, which is never a bad thing. And as the day finally broke, it was. And we had to eventually go our separate ways. My heart kind of broke. Not my heart. I've had plenty of one night stands. I know how to fucking walk away. She doesn't. She still misses this guy so terribly. The part of me that wants to be seen the part of me that fears being rejected because of the ugliness, because of the pain, she still wants that person. And now I know that rejecting that aspect of myself, that part that destroys and tears and shreds, but also that has the biggest heart. Destruction's not the point. The point is integration. The point is being able to find someone who can have you and hold you and your demon and see it all and love it and fuck it and embrace it and consume it and then hold it while the sun never quite sees sets. Thank you.

[Vicki Tollemache]

Me?

[Melina Williams]

Show us what you hold

[Kevin Allison]

do what

[Melina Williams]

I want Come on. Hiding behind Cause you catch your chest do you like what you find? Don't you know I think about it all of the time.

[Kevin Allison]

That is all for this episode, folks. This is pure bathing culture behind me now. And that, of course, was Melina Williams we just heard from. She is at M-O-L-L-E-N-A.com and there's no one quite like her. And there's nothing quite like this show where you can hear stories like that. Which is why I am so earnestly encouraging you to go over to maximumfun.org and become a part of this, become a member and help us to keep this going. Oh, I cannot tell you how thrilled we were to find out how much riskfans had donated last year and what a huge help it was to help us expand what we're doing this past year. And oh my gosh, I can't tell you how dearly I am anticipating and hoping that you do the same this year. Little bits make a huge difference. A lot of people hear this show and think, oh, well, it seems quite well produced and there's a lot of well known people on it. They must have a really big budget. No, we have very, very limited resources and we put a ton of hard work into making this happen with the little that we have. So to be able to continue to expand, to be able to take more on, and to be able to ensure the health and vitality of the show itself and the people who work so hard to make it, we do need your help. This is primarily a listener supported show and the Max Fund Drive is so much fun. So many great prizes, such a great community, so many other great podcasts are a part of the network. If the show is an important, important part of your life, please do what you can to help us out and I cannot tell you how grateful we will be. Max Fund drive lasts until March 28, 2014, so before then, get on over to maximumfund.org donate, become a member or upgrade Today folks. Today's the day. Take a risk. I also loved I hadn't heard that detail before about hold me while I Die. Everyone's first marijuana experience ends up in hold me while I die.