Loading summary
Transcript268 lines
- [00:01]
A
This is a message from sponsor Intuit. TurboTax Taxes was getting frustrated by your forms. Now Taxes is uploading your forms with a snap. And a TurboTax expert will do your taxes for you. One who's backed by the latest tech which cross checks millions of data points for absolute accuracy. All of which makes it easy for you to get the most money back, guaranteed. Get an expert now@turbotax.com Only available with TurboTax Live full service. Seek guaranteed details@turbotax.com.
- [01:18]
B
Hey, everybody. This is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Taj Easton. This is Shushu in the background. Now, Shushu is my favorite band by fucking far. Shushu is Jamie Stewart's band. And Jamie Stewart is the person who you're about to hear a story from. And Jamie Stewart is my celebrity crush. Jimmy Stewart is a person I don't even really know, and I love him deeply. This episode is Jamie telling me a story in conversation that may not mean much to you, but to me, it's unbelievable. It was literally like a dream. Talking to him and then editing this conversation. I kind of felt like we were friends and maybe we kind of are now. So this is a weird thing that you're going to hear today. You're going to hear me in conversation with my fucking hero. And that is rare and really beautiful. I was so fucking fixated on the fact that this had happened that I shirked all of my other work duties to spend 40 hours editing and sound designing this conversation, which is unsustainable. RISC cannot afford to pay me to do that kind of stuff. So I volunteered all those hours, which is just a strange thing for me to do because I live in poverty. So I don't know why I'm telling you that. I guess just in the hopes that it helps you guys understand that this is really special for me. And also maybe it'll help you to understand why you'll never hear it again. Sorry. Enjoy it while it lasts. You know, everything's temporary or whatever. You're here now, and this moment is happening. So Jamie Stewart's story doesn't have a name, but I'm supposed to name things. So here's Jamie Stewart now with the story that I just now named Forever. I'm calling it Forever. Just Now. That's what it's called because I just made that up. You listen to Risk?
- [03:37]
A
Yeah. I think it's fantastic. I totally love it. Yeah, I think it's insane, isn't it.
- [03:42]
B
At its very best. It's insane.
- [03:43]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. It's totally great.
- [03:46]
B
We gotta produce so much content that sometimes we don't get to be insane, and that disappoints me. When things are going good, we are very insane.
- [03:56]
A
Yeah, there's some bonkers ones on there, for sure.
- [04:00]
B
I was talking to Inky about you coming on the show and really stoked about the idea, but that was before I read the book, and I was like, oh, my God, this is the perfect place for Jamie to tell a story. Oh, the book is so beautiful, man.
- [04:17]
A
Thank you. That's sweet of you.
- [04:19]
B
Yeah, yeah. Thank you for writing it. I just really admired how it didn't seem like you were going out of your way to make yourself look like a sparkly hero character.
- [04:30]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah. No, in no way describing anything in that book is heroic. It was all very stupid, occasionally very funny, hopefully in retrospect, but no heroism.
- [04:48]
B
Oh, man. This is. The whole range of human emotion is, like, definitely funny, definitely sexy, definitely sad, definitely disturbing, definitely horrific. This is right up my alley.
- [05:03]
A
Right on.
- [05:05]
B
I'm such a huge fan of yours for so long.
- [05:09]
A
Oh, thanks a lot.
- [05:10]
B
I. I feel like if I stated the full extent of it, it would be awkward, but you're my favorite band, and then having read the book now.
- [05:20]
A
I'm like, oh, man, that means a lot to me. That really means. I didn't know that. That really means a lot to me. Thank you.
- [05:24]
B
I don't know if you remember, I did the first experimental music class that you did through the.
- [05:31]
A
Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. I really appreciate that. I really, really appreciate that. I hope it was okay. I was incredibly nervous each time.
- [05:39]
B
It was fucking awesome. It was incredible.
- [05:41]
A
You are the nicest, Taj. Thanks.
- [05:44]
B
Well, I genuinely, like, have a huge fucking crush on you, so. I mean, I am a nice guy, but in this case, I have a lot of effusive things to say that are absolutely genuine, so I'm just letting them all out now.
- [05:58]
A
Well, that means a lot to me.
- [06:00]
B
Cool, man. Well, yeah. You want to tell me your story?
- [06:04]
A
All right. Yes. So, okay. This story doesn't have a very satisfying ending.
- [06:10]
B
Oh, good.
- [06:11]
A
The ending is just like. And then the end, it's almost just a list of insane things.
- [06:16]
B
So that sounds like real life to me.
- [06:18]
A
Yeah, it is. All right, so I have not a crazy family, but an unusual family.
- [06:26]
B
Yeah.
- [06:27]
A
Some extraordinarily awful things have happened. Like, almost unbelievably awful things have happened, but also some almost unbelievable Spectacular things have happened in my family on both sides, both my maternal and paternal family. So I have a paternal cousin.
- [06:43]
B
Yeah.
- [06:43]
A
Who I don't know very well. He's a couple years younger than me. He's my. My father's sister's son.
- [06:50]
B
Okay.
- [06:50]
A
And my father and his siblings unfortunately grew up in a brutally, brutally abusive household.
- [06:57]
B
Yeah.
- [06:58]
A
Like the worst. The worst things that you could really imagine. Stunningly abusive.
- [07:03]
B
My God.
- [07:04]
A
So they. The siblings don't have a good relationship. They're all. Actually, they're all dead now. But the siblings never had a good relationship. Not because they couldn't stand each other, but anytime they saw each other, this is my father's explanation. They were just reminded of their horrible childhoods, and it just brought out the worst in each other.
- [07:19]
B
So, okay.
- [07:20]
A
I never saw my aunts and my uncle all that often growing up and almost never as an adult. So therefore, I rarely saw this cousin.
- [07:30]
B
Yeah.
- [07:30]
A
But almost every time I did see him, something astonishing happened, which I will. It's worth explaining. So this cousin, I don't know exactly how, but he is neurodivergent.
- [07:47]
B
Okay.
- [07:47]
A
And none of this was really explained to me when I was a child. I just knew when I was hanging out with him that he occasionally would do some things that were, to me as a child, seemed absolutely confusing. So. Such as I was hanging out in his backyard, and he had these wooden cylinders, like blocks or something. And out of nowhere, completely unprovoked, he would just start throwing them at the plate glass window until it exploded. His father comes running out. He wraps him up in a towel, brings him inside, and I'm probably 6 years old at this point. And then he just puts me into a taxi and sends me home, but I live like an hour and a half away. So he put like a six year old in a taxi, sent me home. So that's my very first memory of this cousin.
- [08:43]
B
Okay.
- [08:44]
A
Basically, he is living a life that is outside of everyday behavior.
- [08:49]
B
Yeah.
- [08:49]
A
I maybe saw him two or three other times when we were children. I just kind of stopped thinking about him. He wasn't really part of my life at all until it was revealed to me that that side of my family is from Scotland. It was revealed to me that he went to visit with his mother and his father. His mother's white American, and his father is from Tunisia.
- [09:10]
B
Okay.
- [09:11]
A
And they went to go visit some relatives in Scotland. And my cousin, and this is when he's a teenager, had never seen bagpipes before. And then somebody had a set of pipes and he picked up the bagpipes and could out of nowhere play them, like, masterfully.
- [09:27]
B
No way.
- [09:28]
A
Like, he. Yeah, just like a scent from God. He just. He had that type of mind. Like he was just somehow bagpipes of fucking all things hard right into his mind. So he's like a literal bagpipe savant. He becomes so good at them that he wins these huge competitions all over Europe. He teaches as a teenager, starts teaching master classes in bagpipe playing to people who've been playing for 40 years there. Like, he becomes in that scene, the bagpipe scene. He becomes massively famous and an important figure as a very, very, very young person.
- [10:05]
B
Whoa.
- [10:06]
A
So then. So the bagpipes of aunt is happening. His mother. His mother when. When she was about 12 years old.
- [10:23]
B
Yeah.
- [10:23]
A
Her father, my grandfather, he was a jockey, a horse racer. And at that time, I don't know how accurate this is, but this is what I was told.
- [10:32]
B
Okay.
- [10:32]
A
The job of being a jockey was really looked down on. Like, you couldn't get into restaurants, people wouldn't deal with you. It was just considered a, quote unquote, incredibly low job to have.
- [10:42]
B
Oh, shit.
- [10:42]
A
This was in Southern California. And my grandmother was from crazy old money, like, untold of wealth, like her, you know, like wild, wild, wild, wild, wild money.
- [10:54]
B
Okay?
- [10:55]
A
Like, my great grandpa was an admiral in the Navy, you know? So it's like money that just came from murdering brown people, the bad people money.
- [11:02]
B
Colonial kind of wealth.
- [11:04]
A
Colonialism money. Yeah, definitely bad people money. So my grandmother's mother, my great grandmother, by all accounts, was a horrible person, incredibly cruel, and my grandmother hated her. And essentially, to piss her mom off, she decides to marry this jockey who's also 20 years older than her. So when she's like 18 years old, she marries him. And my great grandmother says to my grandmother, if you marry him, I'm cutting you out of money. You'll never have any money at all. And she says, like, fuck you, Mom. I'm going to do what I want to do.
- [11:36]
B
Damn.
- [11:36]
A
She marries him. This is right before World War II. World War II happens, you know, everybody joins the war effort. So my grandpa starts. He's too old to fight, so he starts. He works in a bomb site, factory builds bomb sites during the whole war. When the war's over, they don't need those kind of bomb sites anymore, so he doesn't have a job. But being a jockey is kind of like being in the music business. It's not a straight job. It's sort of like who? You know.
- [12:01]
B
Yeah.
- [12:02]
A
So once you're out of the scene. He has a really hard time getting work again. And he also, he's getting older. So they essentially, at this point, my uncle, my two aunts and my father have all been born and they're all young. So, you know, a few years after the war now, they're totally destitute, like, really, by what I had been told, on the brink of starvation.
- [12:21]
B
Holy shit.
- [12:22]
A
So my grandmother, she hasn't talked to her mother in years. She has to talk to my great grandmother and essentially beg her for money. My great grandmother says to my grandma, okay, I'll give you an allowance enough to get your family, bye. But your oldest daughter, who is my cousins, the bagpipes of aunt's mother, has to come live with me until she's 21. And you can't talk and you can't talk to her. What, so that'll be for like nine years. Yeah, she basically has. She ransoms my. My aunt in order for them to get some money. Right.
- [12:59]
B
It's like Rumpelstiltskin or something.
- [13:01]
A
Right? It's totally like that. But, you know, she's an evil person from colonial money. So, you know, what do you expect?
- [13:06]
B
That tracks.
- [13:07]
A
So I wonder what her, my great grandmother's life would have been like to turn her into this kind of person. But nobody knows. So anyway, so they don't really have a choice. And it's also, you know, at a time in history where this might have seemed slightly more normal. I don't know. This was kind of a long time ago.
- [13:24]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [13:24]
A
So my other auntie, who's a couple years younger than my bagpipes of aunt cousin's mother, is pissed that her sister gets to go live in the palace and she has to live in her shitty house in Pomona with her shitty brothers and her father, horrible parents, starving. Right? Yeah. So it's the last night that they're all together. They're making a family goodbye family dinner. My aunts are helping my grandmother in the kitchen, you know, preparing food, cutting up vegetables or whatever. And then my aunt, who does not get to go to live in the palace, has cutting vegetables and has a. Has a meat cleaver in her hand and says to my aunt and my grandmother, hey, look. And she lifts up her hand and she chops off two of her own fingers out of. At a protest. And then for my entire childhood, I mean, I only saw this aunt six or seven times in my entire life, but every single time I saw her, you know, her fingers were like this because she Chopped them off at the knuckle. She would dig her fingers into my neck and go, the nub, the nub. And obviously, you know, I'm like seven years old and this woman is sticking her chopped up fingers into my neck and saying, the nub. So, you know, so now my sister, to fuck with me, does it all the time. She'll dig her fingers into my neck and go, the nub, the nub. So this is just to sort of put a little bit of context into these people's lives. It's pretty bonkers.
- [15:02]
B
You were not joking, Jamie. Everyone says they got a fucked up family, but.
- [15:08]
A
This side of the family went through some shit. Okay.
- [15:13]
B
So.
- [15:15]
A
Oh, oh, this. Okay, I'm gonna sound like I'm making this up, but I don't, I don't know if this is true. I have heard this from several family members. My aunt with the nub fingers, she had a husband who apparently disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle. I don't laugh at this. It's so terrible. But okay, okay, so. So the next time.
- [15:49]
B
Oh my God.
- [15:51]
A
I see my cousin.
- [15:52]
B
Yeah.
- [15:53]
A
I'm in my early 20s. I might be like 20. Okay, maybe 20, maybe 21. It's a Christmas dinner. It's at my parents house. I don't think my dad has seen his sister in years and years and years. I haven't seen my cousin since he was like 10, you know, and he's about my age.
- [16:09]
B
Okay.
- [16:10]
A
But I know that he's become a bagpipe savant and he brings his bagpipes to the house. I might be 22 or 23, because about, you know, early 20s.
- [16:19]
B
Into music @ that point.
- [16:20]
A
And into music. Yeah, I'm into, yeah. Starting really trying to get serious about music at this point. He brings his bagpipes to our house and my, my whole. My brother and my sister are there. His father and his mom and my cousin are there. My aunt is a profoundly deep alcoholic.
- [16:39]
B
Okay.
- [16:39]
A
I mean, understandably, you know, this is nub aunt. This is not the nub.
- [16:44]
B
Oh, okay. This is the other.
- [16:44]
A
Yeah, Nub is a different aunt.
- [16:46]
B
Okay, got it.
- [16:47]
A
That was just to sort of paint a picture of what life was like for them. It was intense.
- [16:52]
B
It was very worth sharing. The nub.
- [16:54]
A
Okay. Yeah, yeah.
- [16:55]
B
But I'm glad we talked about the nub.
- [16:57]
A
So she shows up already completely shit faced and she has like a, she has a bandage around her head that looks like, you know, when you, when you, when you like think of people in like World War I trenches, like that kind of like really Wrapped around and there's like some yellow something under it.
- [17:16]
B
Yellow?
- [17:17]
A
Yeah, it's really gnarly, you know, but otherwise she's dressed really beautifully and she has a ton of makeup on and her hair is done, but then it's sort of cut in half by this very, very thick, like, trench warfare bandage. And she can kind of hardly walk.
- [17:33]
B
Oh, man.
- [17:34]
A
She just immediately sits down and starts drinking more. My cousin is there and everyone is excited to see her play the bagpipes. So apparently for him, Fiercett has brain works. In order for him to play, he has to march, like, physically, I guess, to keep time.
- [17:54]
B
Okay.
- [17:55]
A
You can't just, like sit and do it.
- [17:56]
B
Interesting.
- [17:57]
A
So he starts marching around the house playing like Jingle Bells on the backpack and, you know, Silent Night. And I think he plays Frost with the Snowman. But bagpipes are really fucking loud too. And, you know, it's just like a little house. So it's like blasting everybody. But it's also incredible. Like, everybody in my family, no one is annoyed by this. Everyone appreciates what is singular event. Having my cousin, who no one has seen in a really long time.
- [18:26]
B
Whoa.
- [18:26]
A
Who is a bagpipe master, masterfully play Frosty the Snowman marching around the house on bagpipes. Everyone is super into this. So he plays. Everyone applauds. It's very, very nice. It's, it's. Everyone's in a good mood. We're all eating dinner. And then very, very slowly my aunt starts passing out. The one who's shit faced, and she's like slowly tilting, tilting closer and closer and closer into her food. And her husband, who's sitting next to her, just very gently steers her head so it doesn't like, she doesn't fall face down into her plate kind of next to her plate. And everyone's talking, everyone's watching this happen, but no one stops talking. He just sets her head down and the meal continues as if nothing has occurred. It's very. It's very nuts. So then I want to talk a little bit. This will. We'll all come back to this. But I just put my aunt and my uncle, who I only saw then and once as a child, to put their relationship into context. It's just an insane thing. A little bit more. So my uncle was a pretty famous musician and had a regular band. And my aunt and my uncle were at the airport and they ran into one of the musicians that my uncle played with. I guess he had played with him since they were kids and they knew him. They had known him For a long time.
- [19:53]
B
Yeah.
- [19:53]
A
They knew him as part of my uncle's band, but they also had known him from, you know, their own childhood. And they're like, hey, I don't know what this person's name is. Hey, guitar guy, nice to see you. What are you doing? We haven't seen you in years. You want to come over and hang out? He's like, oh, yeah. I guess he was going to do something with my uncle. He was like, oh, yeah, I don't have to be anywhere for a couple hours, you know. They had fond memories of each other as children and where they live was relatively close to where he was going. So they come over and they start hanging out. And my aunt and uncle say to this person, do you want to see some pictures in a photo book of your uncle of, you know, of his boss, essentially, when he was a kid?
- [20:29]
B
Yeah.
- [20:30]
A
Because my uncle, when he was a kid was really fucked up looking. Like, his ears. He had some plastic surgery. Like, his ears were like really huge and really stuck out. He was just. He had like a weird. His hair was all fucked up. You know, he had just like a. Like, he grew. He grew up to be very handsome. But when he was a kid, he. He looked. He looked really, really wrong. Really tweaked looking. So. So the guy was like, yeah, I gotta say, you know, he had known. You know, he had, like, seen here and there. It was kind of a joke. Like, my uncle wasn't sensitive about it, you know, it was. But it's still funny to, you know, see insane pictures of your boss.
- [21:05]
B
He was legendarily tweaked looking. It sounds like.
- [21:08]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and because he was handsome and famous, you know, he didn't care. He thought it was funny, you know.
- [21:15]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [21:16]
A
So they're looking through photos and like, oh, isn't he funny here? Oh, he looks cute there. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But then in. And there's just other family photos of other people they knew, etc. But in the same photo book, there would be like one photo of my aunt and uncle, like, engaged in really super intense S M bondage. And then, you know, you turn the page and then it's just like other family photos or whatever. And then a couple more and there'd be a few more photos. And then eventually this family photo book just turns into a photo book of, like insane bondage. One of the pictures was described to me as. I don't know if this is true. I never saw these. This is what just told to me of my aunt on the grass in the backyard, tied up and blindfolded with a towel over her face. And my uncle with devil horns on fist fucking her in the backyard.
- [22:13]
B
Holy fuck.
- [22:15]
A
So apparently they were, like, trying to seduce this guy into some, like.
- [22:21]
B
Sure. They're trying to gauge his reaction, See?
- [22:24]
A
Yeah. Like, will he get into this S and M threesome with them?
- [22:27]
B
That's actually maybe kind of clever, I guess.
- [22:30]
A
But, I mean, I think I probably would have put all those photos in a book themselves. Like, not with childhood photos also, but, you know, you need some way to open. Open the door.
- [22:42]
B
Right? It was their way in. It was their way in.
- [22:44]
A
You gotta. You gotta start the conversation. Yeah. So the guy realizes what's going on, and he just, you know, there's no good ending to this. He just goes, oh, okay, great to see him. Like, doesn't say anything, just stonewalls. And great to see him. And then splits. Okay. So that's. That's just a little bit more of these people, so.
- [23:01]
B
Oh, my God.
- [23:03]
A
My cousin I started seeing a little bit more when we were in our early 20s. I started seeing. He and my sister became close, so I started seeing him here and there, here and there, a little bit more. Again, I don't know really what his neurodivergence is, but it was. When he was younger, it was sort of like talking to, like, a supercomputer. Like, he had a completely perfect memory, and if you talk to him about something that he had experienced before, he could have a conversation with you about it. You know, like. Like a computer, he could kind of reference previous experiences. But when you got to something that he didn't know, he would just sort of, like, look down and stop talking. Like, he just didn't what to say. Like, he didn't. He had no frame of reference for it, so he didn't know how to reply.
- [23:45]
B
Yeah.
- [23:46]
A
So talking to him was. Was a short conversation generally. Although he was always very, very nice. And when you talked to him initially, it was you. You didn't really have a sense of him being neurodivergent at all until the conversation went down. You know, things he was unfamiliar with. Got it. So I don't know whose decision this was, but it was a very good decision. He starts going to medical school because a lot of medicine is really just remembering long sets of facts. And he became a gerontologist eventually, which he is now. What's like, elder medicine.
- [24:21]
B
Oh, okay.
- [24:22]
A
Yeah. Like, very specific diseases that people get when they're, like, 75 and older.
- [24:26]
B
Got it.
- [24:26]
A
Because he's a supercomputer, all that stuff is easily referenceable. So I went to San Francisco State for school and he went there and I ran into him on campus. I have not seen him in a year. And he goes, jamie, have you seen my jacket? And I say, oh, hi, it's nice to see you. No, I haven't seen your jacket. He's like, I have to find it. And then he split. And that was the last, that was the last time that I ever talked to him. Okay. So my sister, my sister still stays in touch with him and as he gets older and I think, you know, he's just had more and more and more experiences. He could totally handle his way around the world, okay. He eventually becomes a doctor. At one point his mother dies. I think after his mother dies, his father becomes a very, very pious Muslim. And I think my cousin then becomes a very pious Muslim also. You know, my cousin, he's a doctor and he's American. So they decide like, oh, okay, we should go back to Tunisia and find a wife for him. Because they'll probably be able to.
- [25:29]
B
Yeah, he'll score, he'll be.
- [25:30]
A
He's like a catch, essentially. He's American, he's got some money, he's got a, you know, he's got a great job and he's. Religion's very important to him, you know, so they wanted to find him a very, A very pious wife. So he goes back to Tunisia, meets a young woman. Apparently, I've never met her or seen her, but apparently my cousin is just sort of normal looking guy, but his wife is apparently fucking gorgeous. Yeah, like super, super, super beautiful. So the American doctor thing, yeah, that worked, worked out okay for him.
- [25:57]
B
Yeah, it worked.
- [25:58]
A
He, at this point, he still lives in California, now he lives in Oklahoma. And in order to fit in, because he's still, you know, if you talk to him, you would just think he was kind of a nerdy guy, not necessarily neurodivergent, but he's also Muslim and he lives in fucking Oklahoma. So apparently he bought himself a gigantic cowboy hat just trying to try and fit in, which I can kind of understand. You know, he's just, he's trying to make his way in a, in a state where people probably give him a ton of shit because people are fucked there. So he's just trying to see, okay, what camouflage can I wear so these fucking assholes don't give me a hard time. I don't begrudge him this at all. I did see a Photo of him in it. His choice of cowboy hats was not subtle. It is very, very, very, very big. He looks pretty epic in it. Some balls. A very, very, very ballsy fashion choice. So he has married this very beautiful, very pious young woman and his father and he and his new wife come to visit my sister and her family because they're still in touch. They come over and my brother in law, who is an incredibly friendly, really, really sweet, open hearted guy, he meets this one woman, he just offers her hand to shake her hand and she shakes his hand and they have a normal day. But apparently it gets back to them that as part of her piety, like being touched by a man that she's not married to is absolutely taboo. And I guess the question is possibly we don't know because he didn't touch her. He offered her hand, which he accepted. So my sister thinks that maybe his wife was trying to come up with a reason to separate him from the rest of the family for whatever reason she may have. So unfortunately my cousin then became. Was not allowed to talk with my sister anymore.
- [27:53]
B
God, that's a lot of piety.
- [27:56]
A
Yeah, I mean, everybody has their own path. I mean, to me it seems like she could have just not shaken his hand and everything would have been okay. Yeah, I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know. It was. What was her choice was she did whatever she did. And I don't know if it's absolutely true that she's trying to separate my cousin from the rest of the family or if it was just generally so far out of what her spiritual social parameters are that it actually is true. I don't know. I'm not trying to make any judgments. I'm bummed out for my sister because they're really close.
- [28:26]
B
No kidding.
- [28:27]
A
So my sister is sad that they're out of touch.
- [28:29]
B
Thank God he didn't go in for a hug.
- [28:31]
A
Yeah. Yes. Anyway, but that's kind of the end of the story of my cousin. That's all. That's the story.
- [28:40]
B
That's fantastic.
- [28:45]
A
We'll be right back.
- [28:48]
B
We're backstories, man.
- [28:50]
A
Oh, yeah. Anyway, I wish him well wherever he is. Now, if he's still in Oklahoma, I don't know where he is, but I hope he's great. I heard his dad died, which I'm unfortunate for him, but I hope he's doing great.
- [29:04]
B
You never saw the jacket.
- [29:06]
A
I never did find the jacket. I don't know if he ever found the jacket. San Francisco State is a big college. It could be anywhere.
- [29:17]
B
Oh, my God. Wow.
- [29:20]
A
So, I don't know, maybe I'll see him again someday and I'll have a better ending.
- [29:25]
B
Well, no, I like your ending, man. Like I said, that sounds like real life right there.
- [29:29]
A
Yeah, it was.
- [29:30]
B
And having a. A family.
- [29:32]
A
Yeah, true enough, man.
- [29:34]
B
Families. The photo album with the bondage pictures. That is so.
- [29:41]
A
Yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah. The thing is.
- [29:53]
B
The thing.
- [29:53]
A
Another crazy detail about that. It's. My dad told me that story. Yeah. So, like, I can't.
- [30:00]
B
My.
- [30:00]
A
My parents told me a lot of things they shouldn't have told me. Like I. If I. I'm not gonna have children. But, like, I couldn't ever imagine telling a story to my son. A crazy ass story about his aunt, you know, like, oh, I happen to see my sister, like, like a pony, you know, Like, I would never. I would never tell my kids this.
- [30:25]
B
Oh, my God.
- [30:26]
A
Like, why did he think he needed to tell his kids this? I mean, partially. I mean, there was a period where my dad and I were pretty close. Maybe he just needed to get it off his chest or something, which I totally understand.
- [30:43]
B
Oh, my God. That's radically honest of him.
- [30:47]
A
That's generous.
- [30:55]
B
Oh, my God, bro.
- [30:59]
A
Anyway, that's. That.
- [31:01]
B
What's the Bermuda Triangle thing is this guy really reappeared in the Bermuda Triangle.
- [31:06]
A
Oh, okay. So the only other thing I know about him and I. I never met him. He disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle before I was born is that. Oh, this is another fucking crazy ass thing about my auntie the nub. The nub. Auntie.
- [31:18]
B
Okay, nub.
- [31:19]
A
So that. I guess it was my uncle. I don't think it was an uncle because I never met him, but my uncle by marriage, he was hard of hearing and he was in a bar or something and he had. Because he was hard of hearing, he spoke really loudly, okay? And so he's talking, you know, more loudly than the average person talks. And some drunk asshole in the bar told him to shut up because he was talking too loud and he thought. My uncle thought. He said, stand up. So my uncle, like, looks over and he stands up and the guy thinks, oh, you want to fight, motherfucker? So he beat the shit out of my uncle and he busted his cheekbone. And I guess he had. He had to have like the bone pinned together with. They put a. They pinned it together with like a gold pin because gold is sterile, supposedly.
- [32:02]
B
Okay.
- [32:03]
A
But my. My aunt had that pin on a. On a bracelet her whole life, which is. I mean, it's Kind of ultra goth, but it is, it's also, it's also, I mean, I suppose I would do that. I guess it's kind of cool. It always struck me because she didn't, she just seemed like a pretty normal lady. Clearly not a normal lady if she cut off her own fingers and put a pin of a surgical instrument or some sort of reconstructive device from her husband's face.
- [32:30]
B
She sounds metal.
- [32:32]
A
Yeah, yeah. Actually, if you saw her face, you would. That's, oh my God. I think you just completely. You made my aunt totally make sense for me now. Oh, thanks, thanks. Yes, my aunt was super fucking metal.
- [32:46]
B
I'm glad to help.
- [32:47]
A
Yeah. Like deeply, profoundly, intensely metal. Holy shit. Yeah, yeah. She looked like she had some degenerative disease where she was always incredibly, incredibly gaunt and thin. And I never remember her not being on crutches. So she basically looked like European fairy tale witch because she had kind of a hooked nose and her face was always kind of drawn in. She had kind of long string hair and she had, you know, only eight fingers. So, yes, my aunt was super metal.
- [33:16]
B
Whoa.
- [33:17]
A
And then I, I, I can't, I can't remember this poor person's name, but yeah, he apparently disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle when he was in the Navy.
- [33:25]
B
He disappeared? He didn't reappear. I thought he said he reappeared.
- [33:28]
A
Oh, no. Yeah, he disappeared. Oh, sorry. Reappeared would be way more exciting and way cooler.
- [33:32]
B
Well, there just be. Yeah. Something else to hear about.
- [33:35]
A
Yeah. The ship that he was on disappeared. And that I have heard from reliable sources, that I've heard from a few people. So I don't know if the Bermuda Triangle is whatever he's sucked up by aliens or whatever people say, but that is where his ship vanished without a trace. Or so I have been told. But told by reliable sources, so who knows?
- [33:54]
B
Well, it would track. I mean, given every other extraordinary thing that has happened. It all adds up.
- [34:00]
A
It adds up. It adds up. Yeah. It's not a huge surprise.
- [34:07]
B
Is your mom still alive?
- [34:09]
A
My mom's still alive. Yeah. We're actually, I had, I kind of a fucked up childhood, but now she and I are really close and have a really good relationship.
- [34:16]
B
Really?
- [34:16]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Largely due to her making the effort to, to fix things. So I have a lot of respect for my mom.
- [34:21]
B
Fucking nice. That's really cool to hear.
- [34:24]
A
Yeah. She's a cool person. Yeah, we're really good friends now. It's nice. We have actually genuinely seem to enjoy each other's company. I feel super lucky.
- [34:31]
B
Hey, that's nice, man.
- [34:33]
A
It is.
- [34:34]
B
A lot of those other people in the story and in your book, they've since passed on. Aunts, uncles, your dad.
- [34:40]
A
Yeah, they're all. My dad died and all my aunts and uncles are dead. All my grandparents are dead. Yeah, yeah.
- [34:46]
B
Got mom?
- [34:47]
A
Yeah, thankfully. Yeah, she's great.
- [34:48]
B
That's fantastic.
- [34:49]
A
And she's doing well too. She's in. She's in good health, good spirits.
- [34:54]
B
Glad to hear it.
- [34:55]
A
Yeah. Are you close with your family?
- [34:58]
B
Yeah, for the most part. Both my parents are dead. I got siblings that I'm really, really tight with.
- [35:03]
A
Oh, nice.
- [35:03]
B
But we got dramas right now that for the first time in our whole life, there's like stereotypical family dramas over property and in laws and.
- [35:13]
A
Yeah, that gets complicated. I'm sorry.
- [35:15]
B
Yeah, yeah. It's weird. I never foresaw it for us, but here it is.
- [35:20]
A
Good luck.
- [35:21]
B
Thank you.
- [35:22]
A
If you guys are tight, it'll probably pass.
- [35:24]
B
I think so too. I think we're gonna come through, but.
- [35:26]
A
I'm sorry you have to deal with it. Yeah, that's a drag. Especially when you don't expect it.
- [35:31]
B
Yeah. It's kind of emblematic of the larger situation we all find ourselves in. My sister's husband, who's sort of like at the core of all of this conflict is like very traditionally masculine, conservative dude. And it's sort of like it feels like a lot of those traditionally masculine, conservative values and behaviors that are like driving all of the dynamic.
- [35:58]
A
Yeah.
- [35:58]
B
So it's been like weirdly kind of surreal being concerned about things on a broad scale and also having that happening at home.
- [36:07]
A
Yeah, that's. That's weird.
- [36:08]
B
Yeah. It's disturbing.
- [36:10]
A
If it's not. Not a part of your normal life at all just to have it inserted into your open minded life.
- [36:15]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Everything feels so kind of like distant and theoretical thinking about how we're fucked. But then having it happening at home, it's probably good in a sense where it's like keeps me from being too complacent or detached thinking about the larger situation, you know?
- [36:36]
A
That's a cool way to think about it. That's nice.
- [36:38]
B
Thank you, man.
- [36:39]
A
I mean, if you're gonna try and get something out of it, you might as well.
- [36:42]
B
Yeah, I'm always trying. I'm trying to frame things positively because I was doing so bad for a long time. Now I'm like, I'm making a concerted effort to not be suicidally depressed about everything all the time.
- [37:01]
A
That is. That's okay. We did talk about the lack of heroism in the ridiculous book I wrote. But that is an actually heroic thing to do. I'm impressed. I'm impressed that you can do that. That's a massive struggle for me, and I'm always greatly heartened when I hear that it is absolutely possible to make a concerted effort to have some control over your mindset. Well done.
- [37:25]
B
Yeah. I wonder. I wonder. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I feel like I'm just watching my being struggling to survive, and I don't know how much actually choice I have or control I have over it, but it's a joy to be experiencing my being fighting back against the void. It's got some traction, it seems like.
- [37:48]
A
Wow, that's really beautiful and impressive. Well done.
- [37:50]
B
Thank you, man. Thank you. Yeah. It was an acute dark period around having my heart broken. And so it was not like making changes after a lifelong depression or whatever. It was like I fell into this pit of despair and then kind of clawed out of it a little bit.
- [38:10]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well done. I mean, a not unreasonable response to.
- [38:14]
B
That situation, but, yeah, it could have gone either way. It's still happening, but it's going pretty well.
- [38:19]
A
That's good to hear.
- [38:21]
B
Have you ever had your heart broken?
- [38:24]
A
I have, but it's been. Not for. Not for a long time.
- [38:27]
B
Good.
- [38:28]
A
I'm pretty guarded, but not. I don't know. I'm very private about my private life, but thankfully, no, I have. And I learned a lot.
- [38:44]
B
Yeah.
- [38:45]
A
And I comport myself in a way that works better for anyone involved and myself. So thankfully, I've been able to avoid it for a long time.
- [38:53]
B
Good.
- [38:53]
A
But when it has happened. Thumbs down.
- [38:56]
B
Yes. Two thumbs down. When you said you were guarded, like, that's what I feel like I'm coming out of it all. Okay. But I definitely am so much more guarded than I used to be. And in a way, I feel like almost maybe. Maybe, like, shut down in my love muscle a little bit.
- [39:15]
A
You know, you gotta do what you gotta do to get through the rest of your life. I think as long as you're nice to people, it's, you know, and you're. Anybody who gets involved knows what they're getting into. You know, I think as long as you're open about that, it may take you a long time for these reasons. And then, you know, it's not like anybody's gonna be crushed because they think you're rejecting them. They know that you're working it out.
- [39:39]
B
So.
- [39:39]
A
Yeah, you know, that's not insane. No, that's super normal. I think.
- [39:43]
B
Yeah. That exactly what you just said is the lesson I've had to learn because I went around hurting people after I got heartbroken and then I'm resolved to not do that anymore.
- [39:53]
A
Yeah.
- [39:53]
B
Because I thought I'd be available or I thought potentially available and then realize. Yeah, I'm not.
- [39:59]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too.
- [40:01]
B
You did that too?
- [40:02]
A
Oh, fuck. Yeah. Didn't learn though. Sorry. I was a total asshole for decades.
- [40:14]
B
Well, you don't seem like a total asshole sitting in front of me today.
- [40:18]
A
I'm in a better space now than I probably ever have been. But. But you know, it took me a long time and you know, I still have a long ass way to get to where I would like to be, but a lot of it, and I know I mentioned this before, was just the model for my mom. She really grew as a person and made it abundantly clear that it was not only possible to do, but worth the effort. I wish I had started earlier in life kind of working to get my shit together. I'm sure a lot of other people who knew me wish I had started earlier in life too, but, you know, onward and upward.
- [40:55]
B
Yeah. That's kind of amazing what you just said. I, I mean, you hear a lot about and maybe have experienced parents fucking their kids up when they're kids, but it sounds like in this case, like your mom was a role model, an example in adulthood. Like after having done that.
- [41:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. She had us when she was really young and she was similarly to my father from a super abusive household. So, you know, I mean, she was nuts. Like completely insane. Both my parents were totally nuts. You know, I mean, she, she did her best. She did a better job than her parents. But you know, it was. I. My childhood was really difficult.
- [41:34]
B
Yeah.
- [41:35]
A
And then, you know, exactly what you said. And then as an adult, she realized that there were things she wanted to do differently and then luckily for me, shared that stuff with me and then we started. Basically started a new relationship. Yeah. Which is cool.
- [41:50]
B
You're going to break the cycle of abuse by not having kids?
- [41:52]
A
I'm going to break the cycle of abuse by. By not having children. Yeah, but nice, dude. Yeah. Totally. Super clean break. The cleanest possible break.
- [42:04]
B
That's the most pure and guaranteed way to do it.
- [42:07]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would not want to have me as a parent, so I don't. Would not want same. I don't want to. I don't want to impose myself on a baby at all.
- [42:19]
B
Same man.
- [42:21]
A
Yeah, I like kids. I think they're great. They're really fun and sweet to be around, but, man, no kid needs to depend on me for sure.
- [42:35]
B
Can I show you something, Jamie? I don't want to take up too much more of your time.
- [42:38]
A
Yes, please do.
- [42:38]
B
Okay, I'm going to go out of the room for 45 seconds, okay? Okay. Thank you. Will you come here? I want to show you something.
- [42:58]
A
Said Jammers.
- [42:59]
B
That's Jammers. Hi. We can't hear you, Jimmy. One second.
- [43:05]
A
Oh, okay.
- [43:06]
B
Okay, I got a. Stop the recording. Hello, everybody. This is still the show Risk, and this is the end of the show, and we're gonna go. But first, Jamie Stewart is an artist. He is a musician. He is an author. He is a drop dead gorgeous human being. You can find James online on the socials. He recommended Shushu for Life on Instagram. That's X I U. X I U. Shushu is the name of his band. It's my favorite band. It's the best band that has ever existed. It's this band. It's the most cool. This may seem like hyperbole, but I haven't even begun to approach the esteem and admiration I have for this creative endeavor. If you're like me, you're gonna listen to Shushu, and then you're gonna be like, oh, well, everything else sucks and this is good. And then you'll be limited in what you can listen to. But luckily he's got a lot of albums, so at least, you know, you'll have a couple of hours of stuff that you like. Shushu the man. Check it out. Shushu.com or whatever. Or on Spotify. Spotify is terrible. I recommend listening on Bandcamp because then Jamie will actually be able to almost make a living. Probably not really, but kind of okay. Also, for Risk fans, I have a very special thing to direct you towards. Jamie wrote a book. Jamie's book is really good. Oh, my God.
- [45:43]
A
Whoa.
- [45:43]
B
That's extraordinarily heartbreaking and beautiful and funny and disturbing and fucked up and, like, will make you scream and cry and thrash around in your bed sheets and jerk off, then cry again. And then that'll make you want to read more. And then you'll get angry and you'll throw the book at the wall, and then you'll call your mom, and then you'll realize your mom's been dead for 12 years. And then you'll go to therapy, and then you'll recommend the book to a friend, and then they'll get mad at you, but they'll also be grateful and they'll be turned on and ask if you want to have sex with them and you'll consider it but decline because you're afraid. And that's okay. Jamie's book is called Anything that Moves and you can buy it on Amazon, but then you'll be a bastard that's contributing to the downfall of mankind and inhumanity. So I recommend going on to Polyvinyl Records to buy the book. You'll pay a few more dollars, but you'll be less of a bastard. All right, everybody, thanks for tuning in. Thank you for giving us your time. Thank you for being a fan. If you want to give us feedback on these conversation stories, that'd be much appreciated. They're an evolving, experimental thing and we're truly interested to know if you love them or if you hate them. Kind of. I mean, if you hate them and you write me, I'll be super pissed off. Likely to lead to my having a furious existential freak out and taking it out on my loved ones or just hating myself. But it's valuable. You know, we're trying to survive and surviving means creating stuff that people actually like and not just that we sort of egotistically think is great because we are self aggrandizing creative assholes. So yeah, we're very open to the feedback, especially if it's really popular, positive, and allows me to continue to naively think that I'm good at what I do and offering something of value to people. All right, everyone, we'll be back later this week and then next week and always until we run out of money, which will probably be soon. So if you want to give us money on Patreon, we might be around longer. That would be super great. Thank you so much. Tomorrow is terrifying, but today is the day. Take a risk.