Mommy Issues

Summary

Podcast Summary: RISK! Episode - "Mommy Issues"

Introduction

In the June 10, 2025 episode of RISK!, hosted by Kevin Allison, listeners are taken on an emotional journey through two deeply personal and uncensored true stories. This episode, aptly titled "Mommy Issues," delves into the complex and often tumultuous relationships between mothers and their children. Through the narratives of Gabby Conti and Jade Green, the episode explores themes of family secrets, mental health, and the long-lasting impact of childhood experiences.

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Gabby Conti: Navigating a Complex Mother-Daughter Relationship

Timestamp: [06:39]

Gabby Conti opens up about her strained relationship with her mother, marked by hidden family secrets and emotional turbulence. Growing up with a mother battling cancer, Gabby recounts the constant uncertainty and the emotional weight of her mother's deteriorating health.

Key Points:

• Family Secrets: Gabby's mother revealed that her current husband was her second, leaving Gabby questioning the true identity of her father. "I was 27 when she told me this. So now at 34, is she gonna reveal to me that my dad is actually not my dad?" ([06:39]).

• Mother's Health Struggles: Despite overcoming cancer, Gabby's mother continues to battle a rare form of stomach cancer, resulting in a permanent ileostomy. Gabby highlights the physical and emotional toll this has taken on her mother. "She’s always been in and out of hospitals. Her mental and physical health has been deteriorating." ([06:39]).

• Wedding Tensions: At her small wedding, Gabby faced unexpected hostility from her mother over seating arrangements. She had meticulously planned the seating to keep her mother and aunt apart but was blindsided when her mother accused her of placing her "at the worst table with the rats." *"She says… "the number one selling product of its kind with over 20 years of research and innovation, Botox Cosmetic Adobotulinum Toxinae is a prescription medicine to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet and... (Note: This seems to be part of an advertisement and may be an error in the transcript.)

• Emotional Resolution: Realizing that her mother’s anger stems from her own struggles, Gabby chooses to respond with love rather than confrontation. "I am choosing to only react to her with love because that's all I can do." ([18:18]).

Notable Quotes:

• "She is a narcissist." ([03:22])
• "Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk." ([01:03] – Note: This is part of an advertisement and not relevant to Gabby's story.)

Insights: Gabby's story highlights the enduring impact of parental behavior on adult relationships. Her decision to respond with love amidst her mother's narcissism underscores the importance of personal boundaries and self-preservation in toxic relationships.

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Jade Green: Stealing Lessons from a Single Parent

Timestamp: [26:37]

Jade Green shares a harrowing tale of growing up in a household where theft was normalized. Her single mother, Rose, taught her how to alter labels to deceive store systems, a practice that Jade inadvertently continued into her own adulthood.

Key Points:

• Learned Behavior: From a young age, Jade accompanied her mother in shops, where Rose would switch price labels to save money. This behavior extended beyond clothing to food and homewares. "Ever since I can remember, every time we'd go shopping she would change labels on things to make them cheaper." ([26:37]).

• Family Influence: Rose's upbringing on a strict farm with nine siblings and a disciplinarian mother influenced her behavior. The lack of boundaries in Jade's household led to unpunished misbehavior. "There were no rules. I was pretty much allowed to do whatever I wanted." ([26:37]).

• Consequences of Stealing: Jade's late teenage theft spree with her boyfriend James resulted in their arrest. Despite multiple attempts to evade capture over years, they were eventually caught, leading to a conditional caution and a ban from the retail park. "I was just so shocked. How did I end up here?" ([47:36]).

• Personal Growth: The experience instilled a deep sense of shame in Jade, prompting her to become a rule-follower and avoid any further illegal activities. "I've never stolen anything ever again." ([47:36]).

Notable Quotes:

• "It's not condoning this, obviously." ([26:37])
• "We really wanted them to be there." ([18:18] – Note: This relates to Gabby's story.)

Insights: Jade's narrative illustrates how normalized unethical behavior in childhood can carry over into adulthood, often leading to significant personal and legal consequences. Her transformation post-arrest highlights the potential for change and the importance of addressing underlying issues stemming from childhood.

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Conclusion

"Mommy Issues" serves as a poignant exploration of mother-child dynamics, emphasizing how deep-seated family patterns and secrets can shape one's identity and relationships. Both Gabby Conti and Jade Green's stories shed light on the complexities of navigating love, loyalty, and personal growth amidst challenging familial circumstances. RISK! continues to provide a platform for such raw and unfiltered narratives, encouraging listeners to confront and reflect on their own "mommy issues."

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Notable Mentions:

• Kevin Allison's Announcements: Throughout the episode, Kevin introduces upcoming shows and personal projects, including storytelling workshops and online events aimed at fostering community and personal growth through sharing stories.

• Promotional Content: The episode includes various advertisements and sponsorship messages, which have been omitted from this summary to focus solely on the main content.

Additional Resources:

• Gabby Conti on Instagram: @itsGabbyConti
• Jade Green's Podcast: Pivotal Slice – available on all major platforms.
• RISK! Website: risk-show.com

Transcript

[Kevin Allison]

Hey folks, this is Kevin. On this week's episode of Risk, you'll hear Gabby Conti.

[Gabby Conti]

Now my mom is telling me how upset she is at me, how betrayed she feels because I put her at the worst table with the rats.

[Kevin Allison]

That and more. But first, Philadelphia, I, Kevin Allison, am coming to you with an amazing Risk live show on June 19 at Fringe Arts. Our history of doing unforgettable nights in Philly continues and it'll be your last time to see me in person in a while. Philly. So that's June 19th, risk live on stage and tickets are at risk-show.com live. We'll be right back. The number one selling product of its kind with over 20 years of research and innovation, Botox Cosmetic Adobotulinum Toxinae is a prescription medicine to temporarily make moderate to severe frown lines, crow's feet and.

[Jade Green]

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[Kevin Allison]

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[Gabby Conti]

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[Jade Green]

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[Kevin Allison]

It's not just for celebrities, so do.

[Gabby Conti]

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[Jade Green]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month.

[Gabby Conti]

Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families with Greenlight. You can send money to kids quickly, set up chores automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely. And parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place. Try Greenlight Risk free [e-mail] Spotify now.

[Kevin Allison]

Here'S the show SA.

[Jade Green]

Up and dance.

[Gabby Conti]

To a song that was a hit before your mother was born. Though she was born long, long time ago.

[Kevin Allison]

Your mother should know.

[Jade Green]

Your mother should know.

[Kevin Allison]

Hello folks, this is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison. This is the Beatles with youh Mother Should Know behind me now. And we're calling this week's episode Mommy Issues. When I was 10, I was obsessed with the Beatles. I was always at the library taking out books to read up on them, and I saved some allowance money to buy the album Magical Mystery Tour. And there's lyrics in this song, let's all get up and dance to a song that was a hit before your mother was born. I remember asking my mom, hey mom, did you hear that? What's a song from before you were born? And she said, how much is that doggie in the window? Well, now there's Google folks, and the Internet and all, and you don't have to run to the library to check things anymore. And I can guarantee you that How Much Is that Doggy in the Window? Is not from before my mother was born. But I do remember her saying that this song, this Beatles song in and of itself feels kind of like a song from before she was born. That's to say that today's episode is about moms getting some things kind of wrong, some things kind of right. Now, AI has informed us we might get more clicks if we'd call this episode Mom's Gone Wild, which we felt was not quite so fitting. So if you have a Mom's Gone Wild sort of story, pitch it to us at risk-show.com submissions. Now in a little bit we're going to hear from Laura House, but before that, a story from Gabby Conti recorded at the Risk Live show in Los Angeles in 2022. Here's Gabby now with a story we call a better.

[Gabby Conti]

So the last time I saw my parents was a couple of months ago. And my mom brings me into her room and she asks me to close the door, and she tells me she has something very important to tell me. So immediately my mind starts racing because the last time she said something like this, she revealed to me that my father, who she's been married to for 40 years now, is actually her second husband. And I was 27 when she told me this. So now at 34, is she gonna reveal to me that my dad is actually not my dad? I'm an only child, or so I think. I am Italian American. So the possibilities of secrets are, like, truly endless. You know, like, maybe now I would finally figure out why my godfather is so against DNA testing websites like 23andMe. But no, my mom sits me down and my mother is very petite and, you know, and she's five foot one. And she says to me, I don't know how much time I have left, and before I die, I need to tell you something. Now, if I kind of sound dead inside when I say my mother doesn't know how much time she has left, it's because I have been hearing this since I was sick. Six years old, when my father sat me down and said to me, gabriela, I have good news and I have bad news. The bad news is your mom has cancer. The good news is now with her in the hospital, you could finally get that pet monkey. This was the 90s, so this was excellent news. And how most kids always wanted a pony for Christmas, I wanted a pet monkey. Thanks to movies like Aladdin and Dunson Checks in and Monkey Trouble and Ross on Friends with Marcel, there was nothing I wanted more than a monkey who would be my best friend. And I would feel like almost like a sibling. Like, we'd get into hijinks together. We'd have all sorts of fun. Well, my mom no longer has cancer, but I never got that pet monkey, so. And my mom's cancer. I mean, my mom has been in and out of hospitals since as long as I could remember. She's always been in and out of hospitals. She had a rare form of stomach cancer and they had to. After undergoing a 17 hour operation, which she will never neglect to tell me, was just a little longer than how long she was in labor with me, they were able to kind of rewire her stomach. She lost some organs and now she has a permanent ileostomy. Which is a bag outside of her stomach, which is how she uses the restroom. And many doctors would say that she is a miracle because she really did get this whole second act of life. But my mother, the older she gets, the harder it's been for her. Her mental and physical health has been deteriorating. It's harder for her to put on weight, and it's been really tough. So I totally sympathize with that. However, my mom sits me down and she says to me, I have something very important to tell you. Since I am going to die soon, I need you to know that I will never, ever, ever forgive you for where you sat me at your wedding. They can cure cancer, but they can't cure narcissism. So here we are. My mom, you know. Yes, my mother is a narcissist. I learned this due to my true crime obsession and also after getting confirmed by a therapist that that is correct, she is a narcissist. But at her best, my mother has always been really supportive. She always told me that no isn't an answer. She's always believed in me. She's always pushed me to do my best and follow my dreams. She's the reason I moved out to Los Angeles. So, you know, I have a very complicated relationship with her because in some ways she's my biggest fan, but in other ways, she's also my worst enemy. And I've been kind of navigating that my whole life. And now when I tell you that my mother will never forgive me for where I sat her at my wedding, and I told you I was Italian American, you're probably imagining this big 200 person plus wedding, right, with all these tables. But no, my husband and I got married last October at a very small wedding at my hometown in Westport, Connecticut. Because my mom can't travel, we got married in this beautiful, white, picturesque church. And then we had a dinner at this really great restaurant in a private dining room that could only seat 30 people. 28 guests were what we had and most of them were my mom's friends. So. And there were only three tables. There was the table in the front, the first table where my mom, her friends and my new in laws sat. There was the table in the middle where my husband, I and the few friends we were able to invite sat. And then there was the back table, the third table where some of our aunts, uncles and cousins sat. Now, my husband has an older brother who was his best man at the wedding. I am an only child who never got that pet monkey. So I didn't have any siblings. And the closest thing I ever had to siblings growing up were my first cousins who were twins. And I always thought I was the third twin. Turns out that's not a thing. And it was always. And so they were the closest experience I ever had to siblings. And I loved their mother. My godmother, my mother's sister, she was like a second mother to me. And when my mom was sick for most of my childhood, my godmother, and also my grandmother would often step in and fill in that role of mother. So they meant a lot to me. But by the time I was a freshman in high school, my grandmother actually passed away. And at my grandmother's funeral, my mother and her sister, my godmother, got into this explosive fight, as you do at an Italian funeral. And I was not allowed to ever speak to my godmother or my cousins again until my mother revealed to me that my father is her second husband. So I got on Facebook and I friended my godmother and my cousins and I made my mom be friends with her sister again. After 12 years of not speaking to each other. And we had the first Christmas together that we had in those 12 years. And while we'll never get those 12 years back, I'm so lucky that they are in my lives again. I'm so grateful for that. And I'm so grateful that I get to eat my aunt's tiramisu again, because it's clearly the best, hands down. And so at my wedding, when we were kind of, you know, figuring out, like, who's coming and 28 people is really not a lot for a wedding, like, that number goes, like, really quickly. I knew I needed to have my godmother and my cousins there. That was important. And while most brides up until their wedding, they're stressed about things like their dress, their hair, their makeup, their flowers, like, the only thing that was stressing me out was that my mother was going to get into a Jersey Shore meets Real Housewives of New Jersey meets Sopranos like Style fight with her sister in front of my new in laws, quiet, mild mannered people from Indiana who call Italians Italians and who I'm pretty sure have never, like, raised their voice in their life. So that was the biggest fear that consumed me. And that fear would keep growing and growing. My mom would call me out of nowhere and yell at me and say, you know how I had to uninvite my godmother? I had to uninvite my cousins. But. But my husband and I, we Really stood firm on that. We really wanted them to be there. It was very important to me. I wasn't going to let my mother take this away from me, like, she took away my relationship with them for the past 12 years. So I stood my ground on that. And up until the wedding. On the wedding day, I was so nervous. And my husband and I, nights before the wedding, were working on this seating chart, like, trying to figure out every single possible way of how we could seat people. So my mother and my aunt, her sister, are the first furthest possible way they could be from each other. And the way we could do that was by putting my mom at the front first table and my aunt in the back. Turns out that was wrong. That was very wrong. Which I guess I should have known, because growing up, my mom has always been the type of person to always change her table, like, millions of times. When we go to a restaurant and going to hotels with her as a kid, my dad and I would sit in the lobby and wait for her to find the best room with the best view. Although, like, how often are you looking out the window when you're on vacation? So I should have known that this table wasn't the best because the table where I actually sat my aunt overlooked the restaurant. So I guess technically that had the best view and that's where my mom wanted to be seated. But, like, I didn't know that at the time. And I thought, thanks to Lorazepam, that my mom was fine with this table arrangement because she was at my aunt's table. She was acting like best friends with her sister. And I was like, finally, this feud is over. Turns out, no, it isn't. She just wanted to be at the table with the better view. So now my mom is telling me how upset she is at me, how betrayed she feels because I put her at the worst table with the rats. That's a direct quote. I'm pretty sure there are no rats at one of the best restaurants in Westport, Connecticut, Martha Stewart's former hometown. Pretty sure they're not there. But she was so mad, and she just kept yelling at me and yelling at me about how upset she was. And I realized something here. I realized that my mom is right. She doesn't have a lot of time left. And in the past, I would spend a lot of this time arguing back with her, yelling back with her. And I never realized that my mom could just get into an argument with me herself if I just didn't say anything back. And so that's what I did I left the room and I let her just yell at herself about how angry she is about the situation, about how she was sitting with the rats, about how much she hates my aunt, how much she hates me. And not to like, accuse her behavior, but to say, you know, I understand, I understand. Like, I don't actually, I don't understand. I don't know what it's like to be my mother. I don't know what it's like to have an ileostomy. I don't know what it's like to wake up every day and not know if that day is your last. Actually, I kind of do, thanks to the pandemic. But I don't know what she goes through. And I know she's angry and I think that she is putting her anger on me. And I also don't know how many more nights I will get a good night, sweetheart. Superstar. Love you. You're the best. With all the emojis and all caps text messages from her. I don't know how much longer that is, but. And also those text messages depends on whether or not she likes me or not that night. I got one last night, so we're good. But I don't know. And all I know is that I can't control her. I can only control myself and how I react to her. So I am choosing to only react to her with love because that's all I can do. And also knowing that even though she's my mother, I now have my new family with my husband and our cat, Owen. And maybe someday we'll expand our family and finally get that pet monkey. Thank you.

[Kevin Allison]

We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music and fast free delivery, prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.comprime to learn more. I'm CBS News chief Washington correspondent Major Garrett and you're invited to the takeout. No reservations required. Every weeknight. Our podcast serves up a balanced menu of politics, policy and pop culture the day's happenings with curiosity, informality and humor. Serious discussion. But we don't take ourselves too seriously. Follow and listen to the takeout with me, Major Garrett on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jade Green]

Pro baller Lonzo Ball for buzz balls. Ready to go. Cocktails.

[Kevin Allison]

Take 12 buzz balls just dropped their biggest blue balls.

[Jade Green]

Script says Biggie's Blue balls Lonzo.

[Kevin Allison]

Take 13 blue balls just drop their biggest buzz balls.

[Jade Green]

Let's try a vocal exercise.

[Kevin Allison]

Buzz Balls Biggies, Blue Balls, Buzz Balls Biggies Blue balls Big balls just drop. Get blue balls this season with Buzz Balls.

[Gabby Conti]

Please drink responsibly.

[Jade Green]

Buzz Balls.

[Gabby Conti]

Available in spirit, wine and malt.

[Kevin Allison]

15% alcohol by volume.

[Gabby Conti]

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[Kevin Allison]

Got your happy price? Priceline.

[Gabby Conti]

We're back.

[Jade Green]

You woke up this morning got yourself gone Your mama always said you'd be.

[Kevin Allison]

There Chosen one she said.

[Jade Green]

Blue moon in your eyes SM I'm already loving you, you papa never told you about right and wrong look at you that.

[Kevin Allison]

You looking good baby I believe that.

[Gabby Conti]

You'Re a feeling fine Shading my body.

[Jade Green]

No under a bad sound.

[Kevin Allison]

Got a blue moon, got a blue moon in your eyes so sad goddamn goddamn shape. This is risk. This is Alabama 3 behind me now. And we just heard from Gabby Conti, the writer and executive producer of the nine part Rom com for your Ears podcast called Bad Influencer. And she's the author of the enormously popular book 20 Guys yous Date in your 20s. You can find her on Instagram at its Gabby Conti. Folks. One way I've been trying to raise money for my move in the fall is that I've started teaching storytelling workshops again for the first time in 10 years, but this time online right there on Zoom. And here's the deal. My move to Bangkok has just been delayed one month, so I'm now able to offer at least one and maybe even two more of these online workshops. I figure these will most likely be either Sunday mornings around 10am Eastern, or Wednesday or Thursday evenings around 6:30pm Eastern. But they haven't been scheduled yet. So email me if you're interested at all. Kevinriskjeshow.com and spread the word. Let me tell you these first workshops I've taught so far have just been so beautiful. People share stories in the 5 minute range or the 15 minute range. And just like stories on Risk, some make us cry, some make us laugh, some make us feel all warm and fuzzy, some are scary. And the vibe is just so supportive and encouraging. People have been saying it's a bit like group therapy, but where sharing stories is the key. Some folks have worked on stories for their family, things that they want to share with their family, others things that they want to do career wise, you know, stories to share somewhere in their field. Many work on stories they'd like to share on stage or on a podcast like Risk. And some don't really have, you know, plans. They're there because it's a creative and it's good for your mental health. It's connecting with others in such a positive way. And by the way, if you think you might be too nervous or shy or you're just convinced there's no helping me, I suck at storytelling, jump on in because it's downright uncanny how often it's the people who say, at least at the start of the workshop, how terrible they think they are and how shy they are, et cetera, et cetera, who become the most beloved by their classmates and often tell the most amazing stories. And one last thing. As you know, Risk developed a curated social event that we call what's yous Story? It's a very low pressure, fun event that we normally do in an empty theater or a bar where the whole idea is just to get people sharing very short, mostly light and fun stories. It's not a workshop, it's a have fun, meeting people sort of event where there's no big awkward pauses because myself or someone else from the Risk team is leading these quick, bite sized storytelling activities. And some people love the event so much that they come back every time we do it in New York. Well, before I moved to Bangkok, I thought I should also host one of these what's yous Story events online, or maybe a few. So we've never done what's yous Story Online before. I think it would be quite successful. So if you're interested in a what's your Story? Online event, email me about that. [e-mail] Now, I haven't scheduled one yet. I'm trying to garner if people would be interested in attending one, but I'll start creating a list of people who email me and show interest. Okay, that was a lot. Okay, now next we're going to hear from Jade Green. Here she is now with a story we call Crime and Codependency.

[Jade Green]

So my mum taught me how to steal. Her name is Rose and it was just me and her growing up, single parent, only child, household ever since I was little, for as long as I can remember, every time we'd go shopping she would change labels on things to make them cheaper. I remember this starting with clothing, which is the easiest thing to change a label on because you can find a full price item and then go and have a little look in the sales section and find a discount label and then you can just sneak into the changing rooms. I hope I'm not giving the listeners any ideas because it's, it's not a good thing. This isn't going to a good place. So I'm not condoning this, obviously. So I got really used to being with her in the, in the shop while she did this, come with her to the changing rooms and she'd do it. And at some point she graduated from clothing to other items, riskier items like food and homewares, just anything she wanted really. I'm from a place called Coventry, which is this quite grim city in the West Midlands in England. And it's this landlocked place where the only thing to do really is shop. Like that's what you do at the weekends is you go out to the shops and buy things. And so we spent a lot of time doing that and obviously I got very used to never paying full price for anything from a very young age. And like I said, she did this with everything. I remember she did it with like a Christmas ham one year, find a Christmas ham and then go and find, you know, a discounted food item and peel the label off and stick it on the ham. I think in her mind she didn't really see this as stealing. I think because she was paying some money for the item, you know, it's not the same as just shoplifting it. And she always had this thing of if you're doing it with like a big chain store, a big corporation, like it doesn't count, it's fine. You know, what do they care? Just make slightly less money and it's fine. You know, she's a single mom, we're poor, you know, we need the help and it's fine. That was really the belief that was ingrained throughout my childhood and teenage years. And so at a certain point, obviously I started doing this too as a way of sort of, you know, copying her and because it was so normalized and I got really good at it as well from watching her. And she did occasionally get caught as well, you Know, go to the checkout and she'd try and, and purchase the fake sale item. And the checkout person, if they were good, we call it a job's worth in this country. It's where, like, someone, you know, takes pride in, like, following the rules in their job. And if they see you trying to get away with her doing this sort of scam that she was pulling, they're gonna, they're gonna tell the manager. And she had this whole performance that she did when she got caught, which was this sort of pearl clutching, like, oh, how could you possibly accuse me of doing this sort of performance? Which I found so embarrassing, standing next to her in the shop while she did this. I would just be sort of cringing on the spot and just want to get out of the shop as quickly as possible. But she was good at this performance. If you met her, you wouldn't think that she was like this because she's just so of quite a kind person. You know, she's. She doesn't seem like the kind of person who would be doing this, but I guess being in these situations, I think it gave her a kind of sense of power or like, control as well as, I guess, the thrill of doing it. It's a buzz that you get. Looking back on her own upbringing, she grew up on this farm in rural Coventry with nine other siblings. And her mum was really, really tough, really strict disciplinarian. There was physical discipline of all kinds, and it was brutal. You know, from what I've heard from her and her siblings, it was a really brutal upbringing. Obviously, that had an impact on her. It had an impact on everyone in my family. And so I always kind of theorized that the stealing was a way of, I don't know, acting out or, like I said, feeling in control. When, you know, when she was younger, she just had no control. She had no power in that house. And within my family, everyone knew that she stole. And it was kind of a joke. It was something laughed about. You know, when she would go shopping with her sisters, she would change labels on things for them and so they would benefit from this scheme as well. It was just not seen as breaking the law or doing something wrong in terms of our relationship. One of the impacts of her really tough upbringing was that when she had me, there were no rules. You know, there were no boundaries. In our house, I was pretty much allowed to do whatever I wanted. And so I did all of the usual stupid teenage things that people do with no consequences. You know, I never, never faced any kind of Punishment, it was very free kind of household. And she saw us as more like friends than mother and daughter. And I think that was a way that she could like not have to set any kind of boundaries with me. So I get to around 18, I'm getting ready to go off to university. Like I said, I've never been punished for anything, never faced any consequences. I've never learned that stealing is bad, that lying is bad. And so I'm going off into the world with this mindset of what is okay and what isn't. And I had quite a tough time at university. Mental health was really not great in those days. You know, I found it a lonely place. I didn't find it easy to make friends. I'm autistic so it's like sensory overload of, of this new environment, new people was loud and unfamiliar and so I was quite depressed during that time. I met this guy called James and he was sort of lost as well. You know, we were both two lost people in this strange city coming together. It was that kind of relationship where we were finding that solace in each other, finding, you know, a place to be. And it was not long into our relationship, at whatever stage you start to go like food shopping together that I noticed that he had his own scheme for stealing. It's different to my mum's, but how interesting that I was drawn to someone who was also acting out in that way. So his scheme was that he was able to cheat the scales on the self service checkout so that you could basically put through some of the food that you wanted to buy and then cheat the rest through to make it look like you'd paid for it. This was just something that he did. It was fairly normal and it became a normal part of our relationship. You know, whenever we went food shopping, you know, just buy some stuff and get the rest for free, you know, a little kind of bonus. And I guess we, you know, enabled this in each other similar to how it was when I was growing up. It was, it was normal. We did this for long enough that we started to feel sort of invincible I guess, which is probably the stage that people get to when they're committing crimes, you know, on a regular basis. You start to feel like, oh, we've never been caught for this and it's fine, you know. And I think we got a sort of buzz together from doing this and you know, the thrill of it, the acting out, the getting away with it. So I get to the second year of university and I excited to move out of the halls of residence that I'd been living in in my first year. And I found a little studio apartment for myself. You know, it's just like a kitchenette and a room, but it was like paradise to me to have that alone space. I have this boyfriend now that I, you know, I'm feeling a bit better about things than I was in the first year. So I move into this new flat and it's really exciting and I'm really excited to furnish it with new things. You know, I need things for the kitchen and new bedding and homewares. So me and James go to Asda, which is like Walmart in this country and it's in this big retail park on the edge of Leicester. And so we go there one night shortly after I've moved in to my new flat and we walk in there. I remember making a comment about how well we keep getting away with this, don't we? You know, we're obviously about to perpetrate another scheme of like getting all the stuff that I need and not paying for it all. And I, yeah, make a comment on how great it's going and yeah, we're like a couple of cocky criminals walking through, yeah, walking through this supermarket as if we own everything in there already, you know, as if the world is ours sort of thing. So we waltz around Asda filling the trolley with all the things that I need. So like kettle and toaster and plates and cutlery and new bedding and food as well. Lots of, of decadent food for the week. Also just frivolous things like DVD box sets. And you know, I remember we hid a DVD box set inside a bin so we were gonna like put that through the checkout with it inside and obviously not get caught because we're, we're invincible. We get to the self service checkout and I notice how eerily quiet it is in the supermarket and that there are no other customers like in the self service checkout area. And I feel a little prickle like go up the back of my neck which was maybe my body warning me, you're walking into a dangerous situation here. It always amazes me that the wisdom of the body that, that it's able to sense that, but I told it to shut up. And you know, the, the thoughts in my head were still, I'm invincible. I've never been caught. We're skilled criminals at this point. We've done this hundreds of times. So I push that feeling aside. So we do the scam. We put everything through, we pay probably about £20 for like £100 worth of goods. Put it all in the trolley, put it in bags. We're walking towards the exit and I just have a memory of James's stripy T shirt disappearing through the electric doors. And I realized too late that the security alarms are there and that we've got a bunch of stuff that is probably tagged and we hadn't even thought of that. And I just remember that shrill sound of the alarms going off and my heart leaping, my whole body just tense and in a kind of anxious state. And James is shocked as well. And he turns around to look at me frantically. I see the terror in his eyes. And a security guard appears out of nowhere. He tells us to stop and he seems quite happy, the security guard, to have something to liven up his shift, you know, his evening shift. It's a quiet night until this happens. He already knows that we're guilty, basically. There's no worming our way out of this now. There's no, yeah, we're caught. This is it. He comes and looks at the trolley and it's like I imagine maybe he was watching us as we were going through the checkout, but we didn't notice him. I don't know where he was, but suddenly he's there and he's looking through the bags and he asks to see our receipt, which I've thrown away, like in a bin, like before we actually got to the doors, which is, I guess was part of the scam, was just to get rid of the evidence of the receipt. So I tell him that, but he's not having any of it. And he makes the decision to call the police. And this all happens so quickly, but kind of in slow motion at the same time. It's weird. The police get there and we're marched through the store through these fluorescent lit aisles. And the other customers that are in the store that night are looking at us with, you know, with kind of accusatory looks like, oh, look, look at those people. Look at the bad people. What have they done? And we're hanging our heads in shame as we're marched through to the back of the shop, which is like the kind of bowels of the store, these like dark corridors and dusty rooms. And they put us in separate rooms so we can't corroborate our story. And what's happened to me at this point, and this is what happened in those days when I was faced with any kind of stressful situation, is that I've withdrawn into myself, I'm in a dissociative state. I'm only semi aware of what's happening. I don't even try. The performance that my mum was so good at of, you know, how could you possibly accuse me? I'm, you know, I just copped to it immediately. It's like, yeah, we did something stupid. Hands up in the air, like, I'm not going to fight this. I don't have the strength to fight this. And I don't know how, you know, what is the point? As I said, I was so dissociated at this point. I was just sort of signing whatever they gave me. And, you know, I remember hearing the officer read me my rights and thinking, oh, my God, I'm being arrested right now. And it's. It's like on tv, but it's happening to me for real. It was just such a surreal feeling. How did I end up here? So, because James and I both have clean records, and I think because we're, you know, we're still teenagers at the time point and we're students, they show us a bit of mercy and give us what's called a conditional caution, which is, you admit to the crime and sign a statement and they'll give you a punishment on the spot, which in our case was a fine. And then we were banned from that retail park. It wasn't until a few days later that I really thought about what was at risk with this stupid behavior that we'd both been engaging in. I mean, there's reputational risk. If I had been prosecuted, I don't know how it would have affected my studies, you know, at university, would it have jeopardized me getting my degree and the bigger picture, getting a job in the future? And there are some jobs in the UK that require you to get DBS check, which is a check of whether you've got a criminal record. And so I was putting all of that at risk and was totally unaware of that when we were doing this. For all of that time, I don't even remember leaving the store because I was just in such a shock. I just remember driving home and it being silent in the car between James and I. Like, we. We didn't have the kind of relationship where we ever talked about things. We didn't talk about our emotions. And so I think we just sort of brushed it aside, brush it under the carpet, not talk about it. And I never told anyone about it because I was so ashamed. And it felt like, you know, most children probably learned that, like, stealing is wrong and lying is wr and, you know, they have punishments that help them to learn those lessons, but because I'd never had any of that, it was like just being hit with this lesson right in the face, you know, as an adult, basically. Yeah, I just was so ashamed that I think I just went in the opposite direction of being totally rule following and, like, okay, I'm never going to lie, never going to break any law. I'm a good girl now, you know, that's kind of the mask that I adopted, I think, to deal with the shame of that punishment that night. My mom came to visit me about a year after this had happened, and she wanted to go to the retail park of the, you know, where the arrest had happened that I was banned from. And I couldn't really say no. I didn't have a reason to say no, we can't go there. And so we went there, we drove there, and we walked around some of the shops. And I was terrified the whole time. I was keeping my hair over my face and looking away from any cameras, and I had, like, different glasses on, and so I watched. I wasn't recognized the whole time. I was just so terrified of, like, another security guard popping out from somewhere and grabbing me, throwing me in a police car. And it's silly, because she would understand if I did tell her what had happened. She would totally understand, and she would probably find it funny, I think. But I was just so ashamed. So, so ashamed. I've never stolen anything ever again.

[Kevin Allison]

Come on, man. And with the local DBC news, LL Cool J with the triumphant comeback. Don't call it a comeback. And the tears rain down like a monsoon Listen to the base go boom explosion overpowering over the competition I'm towering.

[Jade Green]

Wrecking shots When I drop these lyrics.

[Kevin Allison]

That'Ll make you call the cops don't you dare stare, you better move don't ever compare me to the rest that are all get sliced and diced Competition's paying the price I'm gonna knock you.

[Jade Green]

Out Mama said knock you out I'm.

[Kevin Allison]

Gonna knock you out Mama said knock.

[Jade Green]

You out I'm gonna knock you out.

[Kevin Allison]

Mama said knock you out I'm gonna.

[Jade Green]

Knock you out Mama said knock you out.

[Kevin Allison]

This is Risk. This is LL Cool J behind me now. And we just heard from Jade Green. Jade has a podcast called Pivotal Slice, which can be found on all platforms. Jade's a writer and her friend David, who is a composer. They share stories about living the art life and breaking down the creative process on Pivotal Slice. And you can find Jade on Instagram @jadegreencreative. Folks, you may know that one of the things I'm doing to raise money for my move in the fall is to offer that for $100 or more. If you so choose, I will meet you on ZOOM to chat about whatever you like. The State Risk storytelling. Your life, my life I love. I cannot tell you how much I love these one on one hangouts with riskless listeners. Email me at kevinrisk-show.com if you'd like to do that. Now. Last week a Risk fan reached out to me to do that and we had such a delightful chat. In fact, I met her entire family, even the dog. And she was telling me about a remarkable organization that she is a part of called no Small act, which you can [e-mail] I think it's a beautiful idea. This woman named Colleen Carswell posted a video on TikTok several months ago that went hugely viral. And in it she was basically saying, what if we created a network of engaged citizens wanting to do this, that or the other, whatever they could do to fight for democracy. What if there was a representative in each of the 3,244 counties of the United States? And that by joining no Small act, you could stay connected locally and nationally to a network of people sharing information about volunteer opportunities, protests, town halls you can attend calls you can make letters or postcards you can write offices you can run for, boycotts, petitions, you know, anything. So no Small act is helping people meet like minded folks in their vicinity and helping people network and participate in the resistance to fascism in any and all ways possible. So I highly recommend you go to nosmallact.com and sign up now. Tomorrow, Kate bowl returns to the show. Oh my gosh. One of our very favorite people. And she's gonna have a conversation with Taj Easton, another one of our very favorite people who happens to be on our team. But that's tomorrow. And meanwhile folks, today's the day. Take a mommy.