Still Dog People: Who Am I Now

Summary

RISK! Podcast Summary
Episode: Still Dog People: Who Am I Now
Date: July 23, 2026
Host: Kevin Allison (segment features Michael Shikashio & Marilyn Gilchrist)

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Episode Overview

This episode of RISK! is a unique “conversation story” that explores trauma and recovery through the lived experience of dog trainer Marilyn Gilchrist. Hosted by Kevin Allison, the episode is sourced from an interview between Michael Shikashio (host of The Bitey End of the Dog podcast) and Marilyn. It is a raw, detailed account of a severe dog bite incident, the aftermath for both Marilyn and the dog, the impact on her identity and career, and her journey through trauma and back into her profession.

Content Warning: The episode contains frank discussion of traumatic injury (dog attack), emotional distress, and grief.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Stage (05:13)

• Marilyn’s Professional Background: Longtime dog trainer and volunteer for dog rescue organizations.
• Premise of the Incident: Called to visit a dog in foster care to assess behavior and coach the foster carer after the dog reacted to noises and exhibited “lead grabbing.” (05:36)

The Dog Bite Incident (06:14–13:40)

• Marilyn recounts the specific day in September 2022:

  • Dog in question had a history of abuse and rescue, with generally relaxed body language that day.
  • Main training concern: dog grabs the leash, a holdover from its past as an abused pet.
  • They practiced calmly dropping the leash when the dog grabbed it—a technique to avoid tension and over-excitement.
  • During departure, Marilyn repeats the drop-the-leash tactic, but this time the dog immediately bites her lower leg.

• Memorable Quote:

  “In that split second, everything changed... all I remember thinking was, I’m in trouble.”
  — Marilyn Gilchrist (09:02)

• Marilyn applies her knowledge to stay still (“choke and hold in position”), ensuring the safety of others while securing the dog.

• The wound is severe—she cannot see her own injury, but the foster carer’s reaction is telling. At the hospital, she discovers the bite has exposed the bone.

Emotional and Physical Aftermath (13:41–18:59)

• Immediate Reaction: Marilyn is in shock; she tries to minimize the situation, saying, “I think I’ll be fine.” Her husband, driving to the hospital, is unaware it wasn’t a facial injury.
• Hospital Outcome: Surgery is required, with plastic surgery unable to do more than partial closure due to tissue loss.

Psychological Impact & Identity Crisis (20:25)

• Psychological Toll:

  • Marilyn becomes fearful of unfamiliar dogs for the first time in her life.
  • She closes her business and notifies all her clients, attempting to refund them (most decline, offering to wait).
  • Quote:

    “If I can’t be with dogs, if I don’t have that joy just from being in their presence anymore, then who am I? That’s a complete shift in my entire personality.”
    — Marilyn Gilchrist (24:09)

• Intense grief—primarily for the dog, who ultimately is euthanized after police involvement.

Guilt, Blame & Professional Shame (17:24, 18:59)

• Marilyn details the internalized blame:
  • Second-guessing every moment (“did I miss something?”)
  • Shame and concern about judgment from colleagues.
  • She consults other trainers, who all echo she did nothing wrong.
  • Quote:

    “Nobody will judge you more than you judge yourself... sometimes what you do isn’t necessarily what they think is happening.”
    — Marilyn Gilchrist (18:18)

Trauma Recovery Journey (31:54–41:06)

• Seeking Therapy: It takes several days to realize she needs professional help; intensive therapy (CBT and hypnotherapy) starts one week post-incident.
  • Therapist takes special care (meeting Marilyn outside to avoid dog barking triggers).
  • Techniques for managing panic, grounding, and coping.
• Support System: Family, friends, and particularly local trainers (notably Cal Thorpe and her future business partner Rachel Rogers) play vital roles—offering practical help and emotional encouragement.
• Gradual Return: After four weeks, Marilyn attends a dog workshop (but only to watch—her support network ensures a safe environment).
• Physical Recovery: Five months for the wound to fully close; Marilyn pushes herself with physical challenges to reclaim mobility.

Returning to Dogs & Redefining Her Professional Path (44:27–47:49)

• Marilyn returns to work after six weeks—much sooner than typical in similar cases—driven by stubbornness, support, and a new focus: only taking on work she genuinely enjoys (man trailing and pet trailing).

• Key Moment:

  “If I’m coming back, I’m just going to do what I love.”
  — Marilyn Gilchrist (45:30)

• Supportive clients quickly fill her classes, bolstering her confidence.

Long-Term Changes & Reflections (50:28–62:06)

• Marilyn has become much more open about expressing her need for help and being honest with trusted people about her struggles.

• Advice to Listeners: Build and lean on a support network. Avoid self-blame and harsh online/industry voices.

• On Therapy:

  • Marilyn advocates for therapy as “maintenance for your brain and emotional health.”
  • Emphasizes the importance of therapists experienced in trauma (not necessarily dog professionals).

• Lasting Effects:

  • She remains hypervigilant with unfamiliar dogs.
  • The experience greatly sharpens her empathy—for both clients and dogs—and attunes her to how trauma affects both humans and animals.

• Transformation:

  • Marilyn co-founds the Canine School of Trailing with Rachel Rogers, focusing on building a supportive community for people and dogs.
  • Quote:

    “If you’re going through something similar, your story will be your story, but you can help write it... you can help steer certain parts and have a good ending.”
    — Marilyn Gilchrist (62:06)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I can replay the entire thing like a film in my head and I still will go over every second and think, did I miss something?” —Marilyn Gilchrist (18:18)
• “Sometimes... what you do isn’t necessarily what they think is happening. That’s when it’s tough, because we like to know why.” —Marilyn Gilchrist (18:53)
• “There’s that point where you’re like, I don’t want to tell anybody, because they’re going to blame me... purposefully told friends who are trainers and behaviorists, what did I do?” —Marilyn Gilchrist (19:29)
• “When people say, ‘If you need anything, just ask,’—[my friend] didn't wait. She just turned up and did stuff.” —Marilyn Gilchrist (42:45)
• “I'm much more open when I need help now...I think being able to be honest to people who are close to you—people can’t help you if they don’t know you need help.” —Marilyn Gilchrist (50:28, 52:10)

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Key Timestamps

• 05:13 – Introduction to Marilyn and her visit to the foster dog
• 09:02 – The attack: “I’m in trouble...their teeth are in me.”
• 13:40 – Hospital, shock, and realizing the extent of her injury
• 16:40 – Initial trauma: “I didn’t even want a dog in my vicinity.”
• 20:35 – Closing her business after the attack
• 24:09 – Identity crisis: “Who am I if I can’t be with dogs?”
• 28:07 – Starting therapy and the journey back
• 31:54 – Intensive therapy and gradual reintegration
• 44:27 – Returning to work; support from friends and clients
• 50:28 – Profound change in openness to help and honesty
• 56:51 – Practical coping techniques for trauma triggers
• 62:06 – Where Marilyn is today; founding the Canine School of Trailing

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Trauma is not a sign of weakness or failure: Even professionals can be profoundly affected—and deserve support.
• Return to “normal” takes time and support: Recovery is personal, non-linear, and can be aided by therapy, supportive community, and self-compassion.
• Empathy deepens post-trauma: Marilyn’s ordeal sharpened her insights into both human and dog experiences of trauma.
• Resource gap: There’s a real need for better resources for animal professionals dealing with dog bites and trauma; Marilyn urges care in seeking out supportive spaces and warns against harmful online blame.
• It is possible to rediscover joy after trauma: Through persistence and support, Marilyn found a renewed, more authentic connection to her work.

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Where Are They Now?

Marilyn Gilchrist co-founded the Canine School of Trailing with Rachel Rogers, offering trailing courses and a supportive community. Michael Shikashio continues hosting “The Bitey End of the Dog” podcast, focusing on dog aggression and professional wellbeing.

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For anyone in the dog training community—or anyone recovering from trauma—this episode is a testament to resilience, the complexities of guilt and healing, and the necessity (and beauty) of support.

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Transcript

[Michael Chicashio]

Foreign.

[Kevin Allison]

Hello folks, this is Risk, the show where people tell true stories they never thought they'd dare to share. I'm Kevin Allison, and this is one of our conversation story episodes where someone typically tells their story to me and then we chat about it. But this one's different. This is kind of a part two, a kissing cousin to our episode earlier this week, also called Still Dog People, with a story from Jill Carliner called Two Truths. But I won't be on this episode much because this conversation is lifted directly from an episode of a podcast called the Bitey End of the Dog, which our own John La Sala is an editor for. John was recently editing a conversation between the host, Michael Chicashio, a trainer specializing in dogs with aggression issues, and his guest, fellow trainer Marilyn Gilchrist, and John was struck by how much of a kindred spirit her story was to Jill's story from our last episode. So that's what you're going to hear and then I'll pop in at the end to share some thoughts of my own. But just like with Jill's story, heads up, there will be blood and there will be some trauma. So just a quick break and when we come back from the Bitey End of the Dog podcast, Michael Chicasho and Marilyn Gilchrist with her story called who Am I Now? Queen Carvania stood haloed by the morning sun. An army hung on her every word.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

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[Michael Chicashio]

It's here.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

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[Kevin Allison]

Welcome to the I Can't Sleep podcast with Benjamin Boster.

[Michael Chicashio]

If you're tired of sleepless nights, you'll

[Kevin Allison]

love the I Can't Sleep podcast podcast. I help quiet your mind by reading

[Michael Chicashio]

random articles from across the web to

[Kevin Allison]

bore you to sleep with my soothing voice.

[Michael Chicashio]

Each episode provides Enough interesting content to hold your attention and then your mind

[Kevin Allison]

lets you drift off. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. That's I can't sleep with Benjamin Boster. Hey, do you have trouble sleeping?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Who, me?

[Kevin Allison]

Yes, you. Trouble sleeping? Oh, yeah, sometimes I just have a lot of stuff on my mind. You should try the Sleepy Podcast.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

The what?

[Kevin Allison]

The Sleepy Podcast. It's where host Otis Gray reads old books in a low, rhythmic voice to help you you get to sleep. Classic books like Pride and Prejudice, Winnie the Pooh, Sherlock Holmes. Just softly read bedtime stories for grown ups. Okay. I mean, I need to run some errands. I'll listen to an episode in the car.

[Michael Chicashio]

I think you're really, really good.

[Kevin Allison]

No, dude, you shouldn't operate heavy machinery when you're listening to Sleep. Oh, dear. Well, let's just Opie gets home alive. But the bigger point I was trying to make, folks, is that for years, Sleepy has helped millions of people catch some much needed Z's and start their day off fresh and discover old books they didn't know they'd love. Whether you're having trouble sleeping or just like a good bedtime story, fluff up the cool side of your pillow and tune into Sleepy. Unless you're driving. I nodded off there. Yes, sir. But listen, folks, you can listen to Sleepy on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. New bedtime stories every week.

[Michael Chicashio]

Hey, everyone, welcome back to the bitey end of the Dog this show. We are welcoming Marilyn Gilchrist. Welcome to the show, Marilyn.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[Michael Chicashio]

So I guess we should just start out with talking about what happened. This happened back in September of 2022, and I'm going to let you tell us your story, Marilyn. So thank you.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah, so it was a Monday morning and I had quite a busy day. And in the afternoon I was going to see a dog who was in foster care. So this was a rescue that I'd done volunteer work before, and they really just wanted me to go there to check that the dog was okay, that the foster carer was okay, and to help with any, you know, potential training, things that would make life easier both for the foster carer and for rehoming the dog. I will be quite vague about the dog in question just because it's not only my story to tell. So if I sound vague about that, please don't think it's because I don't care about what happened to the dog. And so I arrived and was greeted by a very happy, waggy, relaxed dog. And, you know, A foster carer who was experienced. But there were just a couple of things that she was uncertain about. The main one being a friend had dropped some boxes, there'd been a loud noise and the dog had barked a lot at that. So we had a chat about that and explained that loud, sudden noises could shock most dogs when they're not expecting it. Talked about what happened afterwards, how quickly did the dog calm down and all of those kind of things, and generally had a chat. And throughout the whole thing, the dog love actually lovely body language, really relaxed, chilled out, no tension at all. And one of the key things that she wanted help with is when she was walking the dog, the dog would often grab onto the lead. So it looked like previously they'd been taught to carry their own lead. You know, that fun trick that some people teach them. And the dog, this was a dog who was in rescue after coming out of a home where they'd been abused for approximately eight years. They'd really struggled in the kennel environment and so had been moved into foster care. And so we practiced with the dog doing little short walks on the lead. And if the dog grabbed the lead, then I just said, don't get into a game of tug. We don't want any tension on the lead. Try and just keep that nice and relaxed. And if it's safe to do so, just drop the lead so that it's not exciting, it's not a game. We practiced that a couple of times and again the whole way throughout it, the dog had just nice, relaxed body language. Whenever she dropped the lead, the dog then just let go of the lead as well. And, you know, everything seemed great. And so after about an hour of just general foster care chat, looking at the dog in the environment and being very happy with what we saw, I got up to leave. And as I did so, the dog grabbed onto the lead again. So as we'd done twice before, I dropped the lead. And in that split second, everything changed. It was one of those moments where I looked down and I think every muscle had gone tense in the dog. And all I remember thinking was, I'm in trouble. Then very quickly, the dog latched onto the front of my leg, and I had this bizarre moment of looking down and thinking, their teeth are in me. Like, that's weird. I couldn't feel anything at that point, so there was no pain registering. But everything went very quiet in my head. It wasn't in real life, but a bit like. Almost like I was underwater in terms of that sound that I wasn't Registering anything other than the fact that, you know, the dog had latched onto my leg. I do have a bit of prior experience with separating fighting dogs, and the one thing that just came straight away into my head was choke and hold in position. So I kind of just wanted the dog to let go. I didn't want to rip them away, so I did that. It seemed like an age that nothing happened other than the dog was still on my leg. And then eventually they let go. I don't think it was that long in reality, but it felt like an age.

[Michael Chicashio]

Was it grabbing sort of your lower leg, sort of near shin area?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Lower leg, sort of shin. Bottom of the shin area. And as I grabbed it and then thought, I have to secure the dog, I wasn't the only person in the room so conscious that other people were at risk at this point and managed to navigate the dog back through a door, at which point I was at sort of head height with the dog and again remember thinking, I've got to let go, get my arm back and shut the door before the dog manages to come at me. And at that point, I think the dog had just gone, you know, their mind had gone. They were just full on in attack mode. And fortunately, everything worked smoothly and I was able to get my hand out and shut the door. And we then had to barricade the door because the dog was about to come through it. So once everything was safe in that regard, I then looked down and couldn't actually see anything. So I thought, oh, well, that's not too bad, is it? And had a seat and then sort of looked up at the foster carer's face and thought, oh, she looks really upset. And it was one of those weird moments where she just went, we've got to get you to a hospital. And I says, no, I think I'll be fine. And she was like, no, we've got, you know, we've got to go. And she said she would take me. Sent off a quick message to my husband to say, I've been bitten by a dog. I'm heading to the hospital. I think you're gonna have to come and pick me up. Sorry. And it was looking back, I think the thing I've learned from that is give more information because he drove the entire way. It was about an hour's drive for him to the hospital, thinking it was my face. And the entire way was thinking, don't react, don't react, don't react. So, yeah, with hindsight on that bit, I would have given more information for Him.

[Michael Chicashio]

Is your husband kind of the more laid back type, where he's gonna calmly drive to the hospital, or was he the other side?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

No, he's very calm. He would have been quite good, quite, you know, steady driving. But he did say he practiced his poker face the entire way, not knowing what he was going to walk into. So when I got to the hospital, shock had started to set in and they very quickly took me through to triage and had a look at my leg. I hadn't seen it at this point and the nurse who was looking at it said, we're going to have to get you through to X ray immediately. And I just said, well, why do you have to get me to X ray? And as I said it, I thought, you can see the bone, can't you? And he was like, yeah. Basically there wasn't much muscle or tissue left. It was bone at the front. So that played through and they then sent me off to another hospital to go under the care of a plastic surgery team. And I had to wait. I won't go into the details of our wonderful NHS system and the delays that you have. Ultimately, they looked after me. So do you accept that there's the hours that you have to sit and wait? But they managed to get me in for an operation on the Tuesday morning, so it was almost 24 hours later.

[Michael Chicashio]

24 hours, yeah, yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And when I came out of general anesthetic, they told me basically all they could do was a very small partial closure because there was nothing there to recover and that the wind would just have to take time to close naturally. Which was. Even at that point, nothing registered because I was sort of like, I just want to get home now.

[Michael Chicashio]

So the whole time it sounds like you didn't really look down.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

No.

[Michael Chicashio]

Right. And do you think that was because of the adrenaline rushing or are you kind of the type that doesn't like to look at your own injuries? Type, or was it, you think, more adrenaline rushing?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

The shock of it, I think it was. I didn't want the reality to hit. I'd seen my husband's reaction when he did arrive, which was momentary relief as he realized it wasn't my face, and then looked down and saw my leg and was like, ooh. I also saw this was a bit gruesome, but the bits of flesh that were on my clothing and so I knew it wasn't good when they had to clean the wound. You know, it's one of the worst parts of it.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yes. Were you wearing jeans or anything that would have. Oh, wow. So this is.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

This was through jeans. Yeah.

[Michael Chicashio]

Okay.

[Kevin Allison]

Okay.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So. So you made it through surgery or you went through surgery?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah. And was able to go home the same day. And it was on that drive home that I think the impact of it started to hit me because there was a man walking his dog, and I was in the car. So we were driving along, he was on the pavement, and I looked out and saw the dog and immediately started to panic, even though there was no risk at all. And I think that was a big shock. You know, I worked with dogs. I love dogs. I never panicked at being around them. And I just didn't even want a dog in my vicinity that I didn't know. Fortunately, my own little dog, I didn't have those feelings. So the first, you know, when I got home and got settled, I was like, just bring her through. She needs to know that I'm here and okay.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yes.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And I need her next to me.

[Michael Chicashio]

So you found comfort with your own dog? Fortunately, yeah. Despite. Now, this dog, I'm assuming, was a larger size. You don't have to mention the breed, but based on what you're telling me, it was a larger.

[Kevin Allison]

Yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Medium and small. Medium size and very strong.

[Michael Chicashio]

Okay. Okay.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

You know, I do. I still think about the dog a lot, and did throughout. Constantly throughout those first few days and weeks, the dog did nothing wrong. I don't think I did anything wrong in that instance. But we were dealing with a dog who'd had eight years of abuse, of trauma. Well, I don't think I did something wrong. I did something that the dog thought was going to lead to something bad. And I think that's taken a bit of therapy to get to that point.

[Michael Chicashio]

And I really appreciate how you put that, because that's a hard part. That's the hard part to get to because there's always this underlying tone of blame or understanding exactly what happened or I should have done this or that. But there's moments. Exactly. Everything you're telling me fits into the client cases I've had where it's nobody's fault. It's. It's just this perfect storm of events. The, you know, what's happened to the dog in a prior life. And you as an animal professional going in, you know, so you're not doing anything that's. That we know as professionals not to do with a dog. Right. That's.

[Kevin Allison]

That's.

[Michael Chicashio]

Oh, we're gonna. I'm gonna do something purposely to you, which can happen, unfortunately, but. So I really appreciate the way you put that. Because I think it's important for people to hear that. So thank you.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Absolutely. And I think anybody who's gone through something like that, nobody will judge you more than you judge yourself. I can replay the entire thing like a film in my head and I still will go over every second and think, did I miss something? But yeah, I think ultimately sometimes when we're dealing with dogs that have been through that amount of trauma, then what you do isn't necessarily what they think is happening. It doesn't necessarily correlate. And yes, and that's when it's tough because we like to know why.

[Michael Chicashio]

Let me ask you this too. In that regard, how much did being a professional. So you have a background in training and you've worked with dogs. Many, many dogs. And so you. How much did that impact your thought process too? Because I know when I've been bitten, you know, as a professional, you go back and you're really second guessing things. You're just questioning yourself. The imposter syndrome, all those typical feelings come into mind. How much do you think that's played a role in this process for you?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Huge amount. Yeah, there's, there's shame. There's that point where you're like, I don't want to tell anybody because they're going to blame me. They're going to think I'm lying about what I did there. All of that comes into play. I purposefully told people, friends who are trainers and behaviorists, I went through everything I did and, you know, with that, what would you have done? What did I do in that moment to try and understand? Everybody I spoke to said they would have done the same thing. There wasn't anything different. Which in that moment still doesn't really help. I think it takes a while for, you know, you have to work through that in your own time. And for me, with help from other people.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah. And let's. So let's back up a little bit too. In the immediate aftermath, you mentioned this sort of profound, would you call it, fear or distrust of dogs that you did not know?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah, fear and panic. I didn't want dogs I didn't know around me at all. So I got home on the Tuesday, on the Wednesday, I closed my business down.

[Michael Chicashio]

Wow.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And messaged and emailed all my customers and said, something has happened, I'm gonna have to cancel everything. I'm gonna refund you everything, you know, and left it at that. Annoyingly, most of them said they didn't want refunds. They would just wait until I was ready and I was sort of there going, no, no, I don't want this. Take your money back. I'm done. But they wouldn't.

[Michael Chicashio]

Well, that. And that speaks volumes about you, though. It's like, you know, we're gonna stick with Marilyn, so we'll wait. Yeah. And they're probably, you know, I'm sure you didn't give the details of what happened, and you weren't ready to talk about it with your. Especially with your clients, but so in that moment, you're kind of just like, I'm done. I'm done with dogs.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah.

[Michael Chicashio]

So how long did that last for you? When did you start to feel like, okay, maybe I could do this again or. Or what am I gonna do next? Kind of questions?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

So it took a good few weeks to think I could start working with dogs at any point in my future. But it was just a couple of days later that I realized I needed help and I needed to recover. And it was following checkup at the hospital, and it was the first time I'd seen my leg, and that was a big shock. I think that was the moment reality hit about the extent of the injury. I had a friend coming around that afternoon. I cancelled that. I said, I can't be around people at the moment. And I went home and I just started googling, looking for other people who had gone through something similar, because I thought, I need examples of where people have come back from this and how have they done it? Can I have a nice one to ten step list of what I need to do to recover from this? But there wasn't anything there that I could find. So then I started searching for therapists in my area. It just felt like it wasn't something I was going to be able to do by myself. You know, friends and family had been amazingly supportive, but with the best will in the world, they didn't have the skills to get me through it either.

[Michael Chicashio]

And I want to. I want to talk more about that in just a moment. I do want to ask you about how you felt, because many of the clients I've worked with or people that have been bitten by dogs, there's a lot of similarities in how they describe, especially immediately after something like this and jumpiness or, you know, just really like seeing every little. You know, as. As trainers, we're good at reading body language, right? So we start to see all the little details like. Like he just suddenly held his breath. Is that. What does that mean? And then, you know, you start to get very kind of jittery or worried about It. So talk us through some of what you felt.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

I, for the first couple of days, I think it was a bit of a blur. I wasn't sleeping, so I couldn't get upstairs. I couldn't walk at that point. So I was on the sofa downstairs and just not sleeping at all. I think there was a pivotal moment when my husband came down on that Wednesday morning and just said, how did you sleep? Are you okay? And I was about to say, yeah, I'm fine, because that's what we say. And I just stopped myself and just thought, I'm not fine. I haven't slept, I can't close my eyes. Every time I do, it replays. I'm exhausted. And it just sort of all, everything came out in that moment. I'm glad I did that because I think it just meant that from that point on I could be honest about everything. But feelings wise, I just wondered who I was, if I wasn't around dogs, you know, I sort of thought, well, I cannot work with dogs, that's fine. But if I can't be around them, if I can hang out with them, if I don't have that joy just from being in their presence anymore, then who am I? Because that's a complete shift in my entire personality. That's not just a change of job, it's your identity.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And I didn't really know. I didn't have an answer for that and I didn't know how to answer it. And I think I just felt numb mainly for those first few days.

[Michael Chicashio]

What about grief? I mean, because that's probably a. It feels like you're losing something so integral to yourself, you know, so you work with dogs and now you probably they're at some stage experiencing grief of loss of that part of you like, meaning working with dogs. Did you experience that? Did you go through that as well?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

I didn't so much for myself I did for the dog involved. That was hard knowing the outcome. The dog didn't make it, the police got involved. You know, that's still tough to think about, to talk about because there's so many what ifs with that. What if the dog had been in another family initially? What if the rescue had got to the dog sooner? You've got a trail of what ifs as long as is your arm. So I grieved a lot for the dog, especially during those last few days.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, I think that's, that's a part of the work we do that is not talked about much or enough. And, and it just must be so profound. All of the different ways you had to look at this, because you're the quote, unquote, professional here. You're also the person that's been bitten. You're also involved in the outcome for a dog that is. And foster a rescue. Right. So it's not necessarily with a guardian already. And so, yeah, just the amount of ways you would have to look at this in your unique position is. It's incredibly difficult, but it's also not talked about enough. You know, it's just. Yeah, because the unfortunate landscape of, you know, the dog training industry is. It's hypercritical, let's face it. And so anything we do, I mean, we can't even use a certain color leash without getting yelled at these days. So, you know, this kind of situation is not something you can talk about publicly because of the potential for that. And that's certainly when you're in a vulnerable place. The last thing you need. Right, let's get into a little bit. You know, we talked about how you do the immediate impacts, but what was the time frame, like, the timeline? Because I think people also maybe have been through an experience like this or have recently experienced a dog bite at some level, and they're saying, how long is this going to take for me? And it's obviously different for every person, but I think it'll be helpful for people to hear that side of it. Like, it's not like just being like, tomorrow I'll be fine. It takes time to. Because this is trauma. This is a traumatic event. And it's so different and unique to each person. So for you, what was your timeline like?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Like, so the attack was on the Monday, and then on the Friday, I contacted a local therapist and she got me in the next week. She did say that she had gone to her own mentor to say that I needed help. But what I didn't realize is that they normally recommend a delay between a traumatic event and starting therapy. And so she was actually recommended by most people, not take me on.

[Michael Chicashio]

Interesting.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And then her mentor said to her, you've spoken to Marilyn. What do you think? Can she cope with this? And she said, I think she can cope with it, but more than that, I think she needs it. And I'm so grateful that she took that chance because I did need to start to see my journey back. And so I was able to start working with her just the week after. And immediately it helped. But I would say it was over the course of about four weeks where I sort of slowly, friends would come around with Their dogs who I knew. And I would be okay with that. And then they would start to talk to me about, you know, what are you going to do with your work? And I would just brush it off. I don't want to think about it. And it was a sort of a slow burn. And there was a one day workshop that I'd signed up to do which was play so using play with dogs. And it was my friend that had organized it and I said, look, I can't even walk, so I certainly can't be up playing with dogs, so I'm just not going to come. And she was like, no, no, it's fine. You can just sit and watch. You can still come. And again, I was like, no, no, it's fine. And she says, well, we've arranged it so your husband's going to drive you. You can sit and take part. And she said, if at any point you're uncomfortable, then you had crutches. So she says, you get up. And she said, I immediately take you home, no questions asked. So, you know, I said, okay, I'll do it. I remember that drive going there in the morning. I think there was probably about 10 points on it where I almost said, just turn around, I can't do this. But I think, you know, I'm stubborn at heart. So I went and it was difficult. I felt, as you mentioned earlier, I felt very aware of the dogs that were there. Everybody knew. So there was a lot of just acceptance that I wasn't going to be interacting with dogs. And they were very good at keeping their dogs at a distance, you know, not kind of forcing the issue at that point. I didn't necessarily feel, I say I felt uncomfortable more than fear. I was very aware of the dog's movements, of how they, you know, their body language, you know, were they uncomfortable, were they stressed at all? Very aware of my exits. Not that I could move fast, but yeah, you hyper assess situations.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, hyper vigilance is probably where I was thinking. Yeah. And that was just four weeks after that workshop. Wow. Yeah, that's impressive.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

I think I'd had two or three therapy sessions during that time though. It was quite intensive and I want

[Michael Chicashio]

to get more into that as well. I think that's going to be incredibly helpful information once we start talking about what type of therapy and what's available out there too.

[Kevin Allison]

Hey folks, it's Kevin again. Another quick break and when we get back, we'll hear about Marilyn's trauma recovery journey. But don't forget this podcast, Risk can't survive without you. We truly rely on your support and you can give that [e-mail] support. Hey folks, I want to talk to you about the perfect gene. I have always struggled with the fact that I have no butt, I'm a bit chubby and I guess my size is a little unusual in terms of like big waist and not so long legs. I'm really making myself sound awesome here. But the fact is I've always been impatient when shopping. I get very. When shopping. I'm not a. I don't like shopping. So many, many, many, many, many times I have just settled for jeans that really don't fit very well or are a slightly just not quite the hue, not quite the color that I'm really looking for or sometimes even the not quite the texture I'm looking for. So the perfect jean set me up. They don't cut corners either. Ykk zippers, reinforced belt loop, boobs, deep pockets that actually fit your phone, your keys, your wallet and such a range. Waists from 26 to 52 lengths from 26 to 38 six fits from skinny to thick. Thick 13 washes. It's over 5000 combinations. I also love these athletic comfort shorts they have. So listen risklessness Listeners get 15% off their first order plus free shipping at ThePerfectGene NYC or Google the Perfect Gene and use the code risk15 for 15% off. That's the perfect gene.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Oh please, not that music. That music gives me nightmares from my childhood.

[Michael Chicashio]

Could we get something a little bit lighter? Some lighter music here?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

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[Michael Chicashio]

And what about Unsolved Mysteries, the show that jump started all of our love of true crime.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

I'm Ellen Marsh.

[Michael Chicashio]

And I'm Joey Taranto.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And we host I Think Not a true crime comedy podcast. New episodes of I think not are released every Wednesday with bonus episodes out every Thursday on Patreon

[Kevin Allison]

Evening. Buyer's remorse.

[Michael Chicashio]

Buy a new car.

[Kevin Allison]

I'll be moving in. Let's get started.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.

[Kevin Allison]

You what?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it.

[Kevin Allison]

So there's no.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

No, no Buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice.

[Kevin Allison]

I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return policy at Carvana.com.

[Michael Chicashio]

All right, we're back here with Marilyn. We were talking about what outlets or what resources There are available. So we talked about the timeline, and a very impressive one where you're just four weeks later able to attend a workshop. And I think that's knowing of the cases that I'm aware of, like in similar situations, it can take much longer for some people. So clearly, you know, we're not saying you're totally fine four weeks later, but that's a significant step. And it sounds like a lot was the help was from your therapist to get to that stage. So talk more about that as much as you can. You know, I know we're getting into more private moments or discussions here, but in terms of the. The type of therapy, because there's different therapists for that specialize, just like trainers. Right. They have expertise in certain areas, but in my experience, there's. There's very few. Maybe a hand. You can count on one hand in the same entire planet how many people actually might have an experience, let alone of specialized in that. So did your therapist kind of do some research on this or have experience with dog attacks or bites or things like that?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

She didn't. She had experience with trauma in general. From talking to her, I immediately felt safe with her and sorry that I feel like I could be completely honest with you. One of the key things that she did, which I didn't really understand at the time, but later she explained, she met me in the street to take her into her. She had an office in her garden. And I sort of thought, oh, that's weird. Interesting, Great. And we got in there and she said, apologies for meeting you in the street. I have a dog. If you'd come to the door, they would have barked. And she said, and I didn't want that to trigger anything.

[Michael Chicashio]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And so even just from that little thing, it was a little thing that felt huge at the time, and that really helped me feel safe with her and think you understand the nuances of what we're dealing with. We initially just worked through some coping techniques, so I did some cognitive behavior therapy things to help me when I started to panic, things to help me on a daily basis to sort of, you know, stay calm and focused and, you know, if I woke up anxious, just little techniques to help. And so that helped, you know, just, I think for me, having tools immediately that I could start to use, just being out and about was good. We did a lot of hypnotherapy.

[Michael Chicashio]

Oh, okay.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And it wasn't something I knew anything about. I sort of wasn't entirely sure how it would help, but it was absolutely Transformative for me. She worked on just so many different levels. Not just focused on the actual event, but I guess just encompassing everything about me. And you know, when I finished therapy, I had six sessions with her. I felt better than I'd felt for decades. I was like, this is amazing. I am hooked. And since then I've gone back on an occasion where other things were happening in my life and my reactions weren't. I hate to use the term normal, but I guess they weren't what I thought they should be. And she helped me understand that it's all part of the same event that you, when you've gone through something like that, then your brain will respond to things differently and it's about understanding that you can use the same techniques. So we joke with her about her that some people will go on spa days and have a massage, but you should also just go and have, have an hour with your therapist every so often and just give your head a spa day.

[Michael Chicashio]

I love that.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Such a way to put it.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

It's. It's really helpful to have somebody who isn't. I quite like the fact that she was not involved in the industry at all. She had no knowledge of the industry or how it worked other than the fact that she had a dog. For me, it made it easier because I didn't have to fear judgment.

[Michael Chicashio]

Interesting.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

You say that it felt safe.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah. And that speaks volumes again about the state of our industry and how it can be such an unsafe space in some ways. And it also speaks volumes. I want to say, you know, the therapy is an amazing thing and it's just everybody should do it regardless of what they do. 100 I am, you know, and it's just like, you know, getting that massage or like you need to maintain or it's maintenance and therapy is maintenance for your brain and your emotional health and your well being. And yeah, it's just like we need to exercise, we need, you know, you need somebody to talk to about these things. So, but, but six sessions, I mean that's great progress, you know, but you've revisited and you, you've maintained things. So. And that's really does speak volumes about your resiliency as well, you know, and being able to see those kind of changes in that time period. And I'm not assuming, making assumptions that you, you know, that that's full healing physically and emotionally, but that it's still very impressive, especially in the cases again I've been involved with and seeing how sometimes, how long it can take. Many years, years and Years for people to even get close to a dog again. So. So let's just touch base on the physical aspect. How long did that take to heal and are you able to actually walk like normally again? And like what was the time that.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

So for the wound to close over? It was five months of going from open wound to, as I always said, to waterproof again in terms of being able to walk. They got me into physio a couple of days later and you know, walking with crutches. So physically I was able to move around without crutches. I think within probably about three weeks after. After two weeks, I signed up to a walking challenge that was taking place in the October. I wish I'd taken a picture of my husband's face when I told him I'd signed up to that. He was sort of. I think his comment was something like, should you not be able to walk to the toilet first? I was like, y, fair point. But again, I think I needed a physical challenge to push myself to do that.

[Michael Chicashio]

You self labeled yourself as stubborn before. Was that what you said? Okay, okay, yeah. So about five months of good amount of rehab and getting up on your feet again. So you had therapy, sport. It sounds like your husband is wonderfully supportive too and understanding. Talk about your support system. So you said you mentioned trainers, but I'm sure you reached out to some very trusted friends and trainers because this is not something you know, you're going to share publicly. But tell me about that. How did that help and what was the aspect of that that was most helpful for you?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah, so I had. There were two in particular who I reached out to, good friend Cal Thorpe. And she's a dog trainer and has been so supportive sort of from the start of my career and become a very good friend. She would come round with her dogs. I only had one dog at that point. Pick up my dog and take them out round the fields. So that Scout was still getting a load of exercise. Cause my husband was trying to work full time and look after me and look after our cats and look after our dog. And so Cal would just sort of turn up every couple of days and make sure that Scout got a really good run around. And I think a lot of people say, oh, if you need anything, just ask. Kao didn't wait for me to ask. She just turned up and did stuff. Which is great because you often don't ask. Oh no, we're fine, it's okay, you know, no, we're coping. And so she was great. And it was. She was the one who arranged the workshop that I ended up going to. I mean, if you think I'm stubborn, then you should meet Kaoh. She definitely is. But she, I would say with good grace and a bit of force, steered me back towards working with dogs. And what I didn't realize at the time is that quite a few of my customers were talking to Cal and saying, what can we do to help? And she just said to them, when she's ready, book everything. Which they did. So as soon as I sort of started opening slots up again and classes up again, they were fully booked.

[Michael Chicashio]

Tell me about that. What did that feel like for you? You know, I'm sure the support felt nice, but working with dogs again, what was that like for you?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Well, by that point I'd made a big decision. So one of the, the other people who was really supportive was Rachel Rogers, who's now my business partner. We used to chat through what me coming back would look like. And the week that the attack happened was the first week with my business where my income had sort of reached a point where I felt like I actually had a business. You know, I sort of had this made up figure in my head that, well, if I'm bringing that every week, I'm doing okay. And so the week that I closed my business down was the first week that I hit that financial target. But I wasn't necessarily enjoying everything I did. And so I thought, if I'm coming back, I'm going to come back and do just do what I love. Which was trailing. And at that point I also taught Hoopers as well. So I put on the Hoopers classes, which sold out, and I put on some trailing sessions, which sold out. It was quite overwhelming. But also I just thought, oh God, I've got to do it now. But I think I also needed that because if people have booked and paid money, well, you've got to turn up. And I was really worried before the first one, you know, again, a lot of angst about, am I gonna walk in there and have any kind of reaction. I had had a few reactions before that when dogs had barked or lunged at me, the panic had set in and I sort of, you know, using all my techniques, but it's still a horrible thing to go through, an exhausting thing to go through. But fortunately they were all regular customers and I knew the dogs. And as soon as I started arriving and the dogs were so happy to see me, I just got caught up in just the joy of being back doing something that I did genuinely love

[Michael Chicashio]

It Went from September to the incident. How many months or how long was that to left first class?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Six weeks.

[Michael Chicashio]

Six weeks.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Six weeks.

[Michael Chicashio]

That's impressive.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah.

[Michael Chicashio]

Do you think again, that's your stubborn side, you know, you just were like, I don't know if I should do this. And you're like, I gotta do this. It sounds like you're very.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

I mean, that's pretty much what went on in my head.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

I don't know if I'm ready. So I very quickly just put a Facebook post up saying, okay, class is gonna start on this date. And then everybody booked. And I was like, oh, well, there we go.

[Michael Chicashio]

Was there something, some moment that, you know, besides your stubbornness? Because not everybody has that, let's face it, everybody's gonna be, I'm just gonna do this, then just do it. It sounds like that's a good part of your personality where you're just like, if I'm gonna put my mind to this, I'm gonna do it, you know, and I'm just gonna stick it out. But I think besides that, is there a particular tipping point or moment where you're like, okay, this is why I'm going to do what I'm going to do again. Can you think of that?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah. I think it was when, from speaking to Rachel a lot and making that decision that ultimately I wanted to focus on man trailing and pet trailing. That then I did just reach the point of if you're going to do this and you've made that decision, what does waiting another two weeks or month or two months due. It was a moment of either you do this and you see if it can work or you don't and you tell everybody that you're done. And I think giving myself that ultimatum, I just thought, I'm not telling people I'm done. In which case I'm doing it and I'm moving forward. So with the support, kao. The support of Rachel, but mainly my husband, when I turned around and said, so, I just started to earn money, but I'm probably going to go back to not having much as I sort of reestablish what I'm doing. Are you okay with that? And I mean, he just looked at me like I was daft and was like, well, yeah, do what, do what you need to do. So I was like, okay. And I think if you have a great support network around you, they just helped hold me up and nudge me forward, you know, and it was that firmly, but with a lot of love.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, yeah. And you answered the question I was going to ask next is where do you find the strength to just go for it like that? And, you know, described your support network beautifully. And I think that's so important for us as trainers in this kind of lonely industry sometimes where we don't always have a lot of people directly. We have so much online presence. Right. So this for a lot of us and so many of our friends are in distant places, but we don't have that local support network. And I think that's so crucial in the work we do for these moments and beyond, you know, so that's a good takeaway definitely for this episode is to build that support network and, and offer it too, you know, like there's people that, that can use your, your help when you're doing well, you know, and everybody has ups and downs in life and we have to support each other. So let me ask you this. You're going back to before the incident, to where you are now. What's the most profound change that's occurred in you that you've taken away from this? And for yourself, we'll talk about for yourself first and then we'll talk about your advice for other professionals. But for you, what's changed the most?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

I think I am much more open when I need help now with people that I really trust. And I think it goes back to that first morning when there was that question, how are you? And there was that split decision of do I go with I'm fine or do I tell the truth? Previously I would have been much more, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, everything's great. I think now I know when things aren't going so great and I'm more likely to ask for help, you know, whether that's when I went back to my therapist and said, look, I'm having these reactions to things that just don't make sense to me. I said, I almost don't know why I need to come and see you. I just know I need to come and see you.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yes.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And I think just being, you know, even just on a day to day basis, if I'm not feeling great about whatever, because it happens, you know, nobody floats through life on a cloud of fairy dust. We all have things going on every day. And I think being able to be honest to people who are close to you, to say, you know, especially if I've just snapped their head off for something, you know, for no particular reason, to be able to turn around and go, you know, I'm sorry, I know I've just Done that. And this is why. And can you just bear with me? I think I'm much more open to that kind of conversation now than perhaps I was in the past. You know, people can't help you if they don't know that you need help.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yes, yes, that is very wise.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

It's not often I'm in so many ways.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, yes. Coming back to that, I want to get a little bit more into the specifics of what's up, because I think the listeners that have gone through this or we mentioned support network being open to finding help, and then the therapy aspect is so crucial, I think. So two part question, resources that you've discovered. Because I know you were looking for resources and you still are very much interested in this for helping other trainers or anybody that's been part of a dog attack or dog bite. So let's start with that, actually. What have you discovered for resources out there? And there's not much, right?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

No. So disappointingly, I didn't really discover anything. You know, I discovered the therapy that I've talked about, discovered the podcast, your podcast that I listened to, which did help, but other than that, it struggled. I think, flipping it. There were a lot of resources that I would say to stay away from that aren't helpful. So I found some groups of other people who had been bitten, not people who worked with dogs. And I thought, well, that could be useful. I think I lasted 20 minutes in that group that was not useful at all. You know, so I think sometimes it's quickly understanding what things are not going to help you and just coming away from it. You know, there were some other articles from canine professionals talking about how if you work with dogs and you've been bitten, it is your fault. And in using those words, yeah, nobody who's gone through that needs to be told that we're doing that ourselves. We don't need anybody else, you know, hitting us over the head with a stick, because all of that is happening. And I feel like those things aren't helpful. I think blame is natural. As a human, I know before this, I did very much jump to. But what did the human do? You know, who's to blame for this? Hindsight's great thing, but it doesn't help. Understanding does as much as you can, but blame doesn't solve anything. So I think, yeah, from a resource perspective, there's not a huge amount out there, but I think if you're looking and you're finding things that are not helping, come away from them as quickly as possible.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Because Otherwise, you're just torturing yourself.

[Michael Chicashio]

That is very good advice. I think, because you're an animal professional, right. That this is a part that doesn't get talked about a lot is that you obviously care about dogs versus if you join one of those groups, you're probably going to get a different theme where, like, it's all of these dogs or this particular breed and they're all evil and we all hate this breed and they should be banned and all that. That's the. That's what happens. And so it's. It's not the right environment because they don't understand dog behavior. And I don't blame them either because that's their experience. It's, you know, and we see it culturally, see mass hysteria like these animals, we won't say even dogs, these animals all need to be eradicated because they're dangerous or they're this or that. And so there's a lot of sensationalism and overreacting to these things. So that's the conundrum, you know, so you're in. You're in a challenging position. Position. You know, you care for these animals. And so there's, you know, people want to blame or say you're the blame or the dog's to blame, but in the situation, especially this, it's, you know, there is no blame. It's just the. The perfect storm that's set, you know, and it sounds like, at least in my experience, too, it's the therapists that tend to be the best fit for these kind of scenarios is the therapists that understand trauma, understand childhood trauma as well. But I think trauma in general, just how to work with that aspect is really important because, let's face it, it is trauma. So. So in that regard, the specifics of, you know, different therapists, of course, just like trainers have different modalities and protocols and ways of. And you mentioned cognitive behavioral therapy and hypnosis. EMDR is another one that's very common for trauma. So, you know, being grounded and present is a good exercise. Like if, if you see a dog, you'll be like, okay, I'm safe. And reminding yourself, you're safe here. And you can you practice. Like, I can smell this. I can see that I'm in the moment, right? So, you know, if you can kind of describe like a moment you've had and you've gone through one of those processes, what do you do?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah, I. Often dogs barking will be like, I'll still jump at that. And so then it's very much as you said, I go, okay, so what's the situation? Where's the dog? What's their body language? What do I need to do, if anything in this situation? So it's running through all of that quite quickly. The more you do it, the better you get it. It's like anything. If you practice it, you get better at it. Trying to control the panic. Initially, the panic would come on really quickly. And there has been situations where another rescue that I was working with on a meet and greet and I had to excuse myself and, you know, just walk out and got in the car and just fell apart at that point. So it doesn't always work. There will be moments, you know, that everything just sort of takes over. But the more that I've practiced it, the better I've become. I think one thing where I am so much more effective at is reading dog's body language, but not just reading it, listening. There was often moments where, you know, people would go, oh, it's okay, my dog's friendly. You can say hello. And I would kind of look at the dog and think, I'm not sure you want to, but there's that sort of fear of offending the human. And now I would just offend the human.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah, I'm right there with you.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

And I'll sort of. But I won't deliberately try and offend them, but I'll sort of say, well, your dog actually, your dog's already said hello. They've leaned forward, they've sniffed my leg and they've taken a step back. So they've said hello and they're fine. So I think I'm much better at reading those situations and doing what I think the dog would prefer rather than the human.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Which ultimately has led to much better relationships with a lot of my clients dogs because then they realize that, you know, I'm not going to run over and grab them by the cheeks and, you know, rub the top of their head or.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

You know, and now they're the ones that will come over and shove their head into my hand.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yes.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Which is lovely. But, yeah, it's always on. On their terms. And I've still got some clients, dogs who come trailing and they don't want anything to do with me, and that's okay.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

They're like, just lay the trail, let me do it, and then I'm going home.

[Michael Chicashio]

I think the same thing too. You know, I don't want to be rude to people, especially at, like, conferences or workshops. You see somebody's dog and they don't want to say hi, they see you, but, you know, they. They kind of you. You feel bad for not saying hi to their dog, but sometimes the dog's telling you, you know, hey, you're there. I'm here, and that's fine. I don't need to come over and say hello to you, you know.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Yeah.

[Michael Chicashio]

And the other part you were mentioning, too, really does make you think. You know, you mentioned you still startle sometimes at dogs barking. And because of the experience you've gone through. And if anything, as humans, it allows us to see what the dogs are going through. You know, the dogs, this particular dog, the. So many years of experiences and trauma and how things can happen with that dog and their experiences and their trauma and understanding that and how many years and years it can still occur after. So, you know, I really appreciate you sharing your experience because I think it just also allows the listeners to get a deeper insight into dog's experiences and that these things don't just. You can't turn them off like a light switch, right?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

No. And I think one thing that I especially thought a lot about when our second dog, we adopted a little standard dash and cross Chihuahua. No idea why, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. And he came as a puppy. And puppies are lovely, but it's hard. You know, having a puppy isn't easy, and he was not an easy puppy. And I would, I think every day would think, okay, if I'm finding it hard, how hard is he finding it? And I think that's something that I think a lot now when I'm dealing with dogs, you know, and sometimes it's the will, you know, if the guardian is finding it hard, how hard is the dog finding it? And try and flip it around to get people to understand that no dog is doing this, doing any kind of behavior quirk, you know, insert whichever one you want because they want to make your life harder. You know, they're doing it because they have these feelings that they can't either rationalize or control or, you know, that they don't understand something. So, yeah, I think that's one of those things that just keeps going around.

[Michael Chicashio]

Yes.

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

You know, if we find it hard and we kind of know the world and the environment a bit better, then how hard are the dogs finding it?

[Michael Chicashio]

Yeah. Yeah. I have two more questions before we wrap up. And first one is, how are you doing now? So, 2022, September of 2022, just as a reminder, when this happened, how is Marilyn today doing?

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

Good. So since it happened, And I got my own business back off the ground. I've also formed a partnership with Rachel Rogers. So that's how the K9 school of trailing came to be. We now run instructor courses to help other people offer trailing. You know, so I think that one decision to focus on what I love has actually enabled me to, you know, just drive forward and build business and keep being involved with dogs and help create a community, which the trailing community is amazing and very supportive. So, yeah, things are good. You know, I think one of the reasons that I mentioned to you that I wanted to talk to you and get this story out is that if you are going through something similar now, then you know, your story will be your story, but you can help write it. You know, you don't, without wanting to sound corny, you can help steer certain parts of it and have a good ending,

[Kevin Allison]

and that is that. I gotta say, I have been so moved by both of these still dog people episodes, by all of the care people taking care of animals with special needs, people taking care of one another through, you know, traumatic recovery. Such honest sharing about these things. It's very inspiring. So, so much thanks to Marilyn Gilchrist and Michael Chicasho for sharing this story with us. Now, the business that Marilyn went on to form with her friend Rachel Rogers is the Canine School of Trailing. You can find it@the canineschooloftrailing.co.uk and on all the socials at the Canine School of Trailing. And you can find Michael Chicashio at Aggressive Dog. Or just look up the bitey end of the dog podcast for all kinds of interviews with dog professionals on and around that topic. And one episode in particular you might want to check out from just a few weeks ago is the Dogs of Ukraine the Hidden Toll of War with Nadia Prokopyeva. It's a fascinating and harrowing and honestly inspiring look at the life of both pets and people living through the war in Ukraine. So let us know what you think of this or any episode of Risk at the Risk Podcast Fans discussion group on Facebook, or you can post on the R riskpodcast subreddit or anywhere on social media using the hashtag I heard it on Risk. And if you've got a story regarding animals that you'd like to share with us, just go to risk-show.com submissions and send me your pitch. Folks, today's the day. Take a risk. Take a risk.

[Michael Chicashio]

Take a risk. Hi, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Are you looking for a beach read this summer? May I suggest your big wireless bill. It's got suspense, mystery, a slightly flat emotional arc, and a shocking twist where you realize you've been overpaying the entire time. Fortunately, though, Mint Story is better. Every plan $15 a month, even unlimited. That's it. Happy ending, zero tears. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Marilyn Gilchrist]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms.