Podcast Summary: RISK! – Episode "The Squabbles"
Host: Kevin Allison
Guests: Don Jewel Frazier, Leo, Taj Easton
Release Date: December 11, 2024
1. Introduction
In this episode of RISK!, host Kevin Allison engages in a profound and candid conversation with Don Jewel Frazier and her colleague Leo, delving into a tumultuous experience Don faced while subletting her Brooklyn apartment. The discussion not only recounts the bizarre legal battle that ensued but also explores deeper themes of communication, empathy, and the impact of language in conflict resolution.
2. The Subletting Dispute
a. Initial Agreement and Subletting Decision
Don Jewel Frazier shares her initial decision to sublet her Brooklyn brownstone shortly after graduating with a master's in policy. With limited financial means and the burgeoning popularity of Airbnb at the time, Don found a stunning apartment on a tree-lined street, which she deemed a dream space.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"I had found it through a former student who was also living in Brooklyn and just needed a place to live."
[03:02]
b. Emergence of Problems
As Don prepared for a two-month leadership program in Ghana, she arranged for a family friend's daughter to sublet her space. However, just before departing, the subletter's initial check bounced. Opting for a wire transfer, unforeseen fees reduced the expected $1,500 payment by $100.
Leo:
"Instead of getting the money that I'm expecting the $1,500, I'm out $100 for a pretty freaking good deal."
[06:13]
c. Escalation and Legal Action
The situation spiraled when the subletter accused Don of overcharging and attempted to terminate the agreement early. Emails became increasingly hostile, eventually involving the subletter’s lawyer mother, leading to Don receiving a lawsuit for $5,000 despite the inconsistent claims.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"This is my final and last offer. This is how much I will give you. It'll be exactly half."
[08:48]
Leo:
"I never received the keys back from K, but you see these long letters, I didn't listen to any of them because they seemed like such bullshit."
[11:20]
d. Appearance on Court TV Shows
Confused by the escalating situation, Don received invitations from various television court shows like Judge Judy and Judge Joe Brown, who offered to cover her legal expenses if she appeared on their shows. Initially considering, Don ultimately questioned the legitimacy and potential outcomes of such appearances.
Leo:
"If I don't have a case because her mother is a lawyer, then at least, at the very least, I'll get these fees taken care of."
[13:55]
e. Resolution in Local Court
With the help of a colleague, Leo, who had faced similar harassment from the same subletter, Don decided to take her case to a local Brooklyn court. The courtroom experience was revelatory, as the judge dismissed the case due to inconsistencies and lack of evidence, leaving Don vindicated.
Leo:
"The judge was like, this makes absolutely no fucking sense, woman."
[70:33]
Don Jewel Frazier:
"That was a meaningful conversation to me, like, how to move the needle even slightly towards, like, just being able to have a conversation rather than yelling at one another."
[73:51]
3. Communication and Language in Conflict
Following the recounting of the dispute, the conversation shifts to the nuances of language, particularly the use of the word "crazy," and its implications in describing individuals involved in conflicts.
a. The Use of “Crazy”
Don reflects on her frequent use of the word "crazy" to describe the subletter, questioning its precision and impact.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"I differentiate between when people say, like, oh, the situation was crazy... but then wanting to kind of examine a little more closely and seeing a little more significance when it's used, like, to describe a person."
[38:27]
b. Empathy in Conflict
The discussion emphasizes the importance of empathy and precise language in mitigating conflicts and understanding others' perspectives.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"Empathy is not the same as agreement, you know, and empathy doesn't get in the way of condemning another person's behavior."
[53:38]
Leo:
"If you have one side attacking you, you're like, you know, that's why I said I can only do so much."
[71:19]
c. Nonviolent Communication and Restorative Justice
Drawing parallels to Nonviolent Communication and Restorative Justice, Don and the guests discuss strategies for fostering dialogue without escalating conflicts.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"It's about empathy. It's about finding ways to use language... to build empathy which may lead us towards compassion."
[42:53]
Taj Easton:
"It reminds me of restorative justice... being able to communicate with somebody who's done you wrong."
[43:22]
d. Practical Implications
They explore real-world applications of empathetic communication, citing examples like Daryl Davis' conversations with Ku Klux Klan members, highlighting how listening and empathy can lead to unexpected outcomes.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"He's a sort of North Star or a compelling example to me of how this approach can be wildly effective."
[55:23]
4. Reflections on Modern Discourse and Scams
The conversation shifts to broader societal issues, including the proliferation of scams and the challenges of maintaining effective communication in an increasingly polarized environment.
Leo:
"It's the wild, wild west element that... there's so many scams all over the place right now."
[25:29]
Don Jewel Frazier:
"People are getting different facts or they're perceiving them so wildly differently that there's really hard to find common ground."
[63:18]
a. Evolving Scams and Vulnerabilities
They discuss how scams have become more sophisticated, exploiting technological advancements and leveraging social media to manipulate victims.
Leon:
"I get so many emails now that are, hey, Ms. Fraser, your contract is not quite ready to be processed until you click on this link."
[31:07]
b. Protecting Mental Health
The guests highlight the importance of mental health in navigating conflicts and avoiding the depletion caused by hostile interactions.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"I'm feeling it on a personal level just hearing the way... people across the aisle from one another are talking to one another."
[58:16]
5. Conclusion
The episode wraps up with heartfelt reflections on the necessity of precise language and empathy in fostering meaningful conversations, especially in the face of adversity and conflict. Don Jewel Frazier emphasizes the transformative potential of shifting from condemnation to curiosity, advocating for a more compassionate and understanding approach in interpersonal interactions.
Don Jewel Frazier:
"Empathy is not the same as agreement... It's a means of preventing communication from breaking down."
[53:38]
Leo:
"I'm glad you were able to turn those tables and not end up on television."
[29:42]
Notable Quotes:
-
Leo:
"This is my final and last offer. This is how much I will give you. It'll be exactly half."
[08:48] -
Don Jewel Frazier:
"I've been thinking about how to use language to facilitate empathetic perspectives of other people."
[39:46] -
Taj Easton:
"Some of the things that you're talking about kind of remind me of utilizing that process a bit more to define the words."
[52:22]
Final Thoughts:
"The Squabbles" episode of RISK! is a compelling narrative that intertwines a personal legal battle with profound discussions on communication and empathy. Through Don Jewel Frazier's experience, listeners gain insights into the complexities of conflict resolution and the pivotal role language plays in shaping our interactions and understanding of others.