Originally recorded at Science and Nonduality, 2021

Pat McCabe, also known as Woman Stands Shining, is a Diné elder, ceremonial prayer leader, and international speaker adopted into the Lakota spiritual way of life. In this conversation hosted by Lynn Murphy, Pat offers a profound invitation to examine the foundational assumptions of the modern world paradigm and consider what it might mean to live from a genuinely different understanding of what it is to be human.

Drawing on teachings from her clan grandfather, her experience of intergenerational trauma and survival, and her deep inquiry into masculine and feminine principles, Pat maps the territory between the glittering world we are leaving and the green world we are entering. The conversation opens in ceremony and closes with a practice: a morning sunrise offering that anyone can begin today.

Lynn Murphy is a strategic advisor for foundations and NGOs working in the geopolitical South. She was a senior fellow and program officer at the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation where she focused on international education and global development. She resigned as a ”conscientious objector” to neocolonial philanthropy. She holds an MA and PhD in international comparative education from Stanford University. She is also a certified Laban/Bartenieff movement analyst.

This episode is released in celebration of SAND’s new film featuring Pat McCabe, Little Singer, premiering online May 26-28, 2026, as part of the Eternal Song series.

Timestamps

00:00:00 — Introduction

00:01:45 — Lynn Murphy introduces Pat McCabe: Diné nation, Lakota spiritual way, Defend the Sacred alliance

00:05:00 — Pat introduces herself through her clans — clan names as places on the earth, worlds more than this one

00:07:00 — Traveling through worlds: the flood, men and women, and the movement from the glittering world to the green world

00:15:00 — The two paradigms: indigenous versus modern world — "I am a human being, relative to all my relations"

00:34:00 — Trailer for Little Singer — premiering online May 26-28, 2026 — theeternalsong.org/littlesinger

00:35:00 — Masculine and feminine principles: power over versus power with, the sacred hoop, and right relations

00:52:00 — A practice for beginning: the morning sunrise offering and the teaching on consent, sovereignty, and honorable relationship with all beings

Resources and Links

Pat McCabe — Woman Stands Shining Website: patmccabe.net

Little Singer — Eternal Song Series Online premiere: May 26-28, 2026 Three-day event with Diné voices

Mentioned in the episode Robin Wall Kimmerer — Braiding Sweetgrass (plant sovereignty, honorable harvest) Lakota spiritual traditions — Seven Generations teaching Diné (Navajo) Nation — Long Walk history, Bosque Redondo concentration camp, 1860s Residential boarding school history — US government and church collaboration Masculine and feminine principles in economics and right relations — ongoing inquiry in Pat's work

Episode artwork “Woman Stands Shining” by Namita

Contact SAND

podcast@scienceandnonduality.com

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The Indigenous Paradigm: Pat McCabe & Lynn Murphy