Podcast Summary: Ep. 199 – Scaffolding Relational Skills as Brain Skills with Eileen Devine
The Baffling Behavior Show, hosted by Robyn Gobbel, delves into understanding and managing the complex behaviors of children with nervous system vulnerabilities. In Episode 199, released on November 12, 2024, Robyn hosts Eileen Devine, a licensed clinical social worker and expert in brain-based differences in children. This episode explores the intersection of relational skills and brain skills, providing valuable insights for parents, educators, and professionals working with children who have experienced trauma or have neuroimmune disorders.
1. Introduction and Guest Background
Robyn Gobbel opens the episode by introducing Eileen Devine, highlighting their longstanding professional and personal relationship. Eileen shares her journey from being a parent of a child with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder to becoming a clinical social worker specializing in supporting parents of children with brain-based differences.
Notable Quote:
"I help them understand their child's unique brain so that then eventually, over time, that leads to less challenging behaviors."
– Eileen Devine [06:06]
2. Complementary Expertise: Relational vs. Cognitive Focus
Robyn and Eileen discuss the complementary nature of their work. While Robyn emphasizes the nervous system and relational aspects, Eileen focuses on the brain and cognitive skills. They agree that behaviors often intertwine both realms, making their combined approaches highly effective.
Notable Quote:
"There is a ton of overlap and you can't really separate the two. But I do think that it's helpful for parents to separate the two and talk about them separately."
– Eileen Devine [12:15]
3. Understanding Skills Through a Brain-Based Lens
The conversation shifts to distinguishing between skill-based challenges and behaviors that feel personal. They explore how seemingly relational behaviors are rooted in cognitive skills deficits, such as processing pace and learning memory.
Key Points:
- Processing Pace: Children who process information slower may need more time to respond, affecting their interactions.
- Learning and Memory: Difficulty in handling multiple steps can lead to frustration and apparent defiance.
Notable Quote:
"They're doing the very best they can. They just need some more support or some more accommodations."
– Robyn Goble [18:01]
4. Addressing Parental Burnout and Support Needs
Robyn emphasizes the importance of supporting parents to prevent burnout. Eileen agrees, highlighting the need for parents to build resilience and stabilize their nervous systems to better support their children.
Notable Quote:
"It is hard work."
– Eileen Devine [26:59]
5. Navigating Behaviors Without a Diagnosis
The duo discusses strategies for parents who manage challenging behaviors without a clear diagnosis. They advocate for viewing behaviors through a brain-based lens, regardless of medical labels, to identify underlying skills deficits.
Key Points:
- Assuming Brain-Based Causes: Encourages parents to consider neurological factors even without a diagnosis.
- Scaffolding Skills: Implementing accommodations based on observed behaviors to support skill development.
Notable Quote:
"If you have a child who's challenging and you don't know why, nobody can tell you why. What I say to the parent is you may never know why. But if everything you've tried so far has not worked, I wonder if we can give this a shot."
– Eileen Devine [30:34]
6. Practical Scenarios: Sibling Relationships
Eileen provides a hypothetical scenario involving sibling conflict to illustrate how relational challenges stem from cognitive rigidity. They outline steps for parents to address these issues by focusing on skill-building rather than labeling behaviors as selfish or manipulative.
Key Points:
- Identifying Lagging Skills: Recognizing that controlling behavior may be due to a lack of cognitive flexibility.
- Parenting Strategies: Encouraging empathy, perspective-taking, and structured interventions.
Notable Quote:
"The main piece of that, and then I'll stop talking about it because we could talk for another hour about circling back in and of itself is the first step is most important and it's leading with empathy."
– Eileen Devine [53:34]
7. Integrating Attachment Trauma into Brain-Based Skills
They explore how attachment trauma influences relational behaviors, reinforcing that even deeply rooted emotional challenges can be understood and addressed through the development of specific skills.
Key Points:
- Safety and Trust: Building a sense of safety in relationships to foster cooperative behaviors.
- Continuous Support: Emphasizing that accommodations and support must be sustained over time to be effective.
Notable Quote:
"We can still break down what is missing. And even if we can't fix still changes completely how we see and interpret what's happening."
– Robyn Goble [58:37]
8. Eileen Devine’s New Endeavor: Brain First Parenting Podcast
Towards the episode's conclusion, Eileen announces her new podcast, Brain First Parenting, aimed at providing additional support and resources for parents of children with brain-based differences. Robyn expresses her enthusiasm and mutual support, underscoring the collaborative spirit of their work.
Notable Quote:
"I've decided to start a brain first parenting podcast. And it is officially out into the world."
– Eileen Devine [61:02]
9. Conclusion and Resources
Robyn wraps up the episode by directing listeners to various resources for further support, including her bestselling book, online community, and professional training programs. She emphasizes the importance of community and continuous learning for both parents and professionals.
Notable Quote:
"Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors continues to exceed our wildest dreams, breaking sales goals and getting feedback that it is changing people's lives."
– Robyn Goble [64:11]
Key Takeaways
- Behavior as Skill Deficit: Understanding challenging behaviors as manifestations of unmet cognitive and relational skills.
- Complementary Approaches: Combining relational and cognitive strategies enhances support for children with nervous system vulnerabilities.
- Parental Support: Addressing parental burnout and building resilience is crucial for effective parenting.
- Diagnosis Not Necessary: Parents can effectively support their children by adopting a brain-based lens, even without a formal diagnosis.
- Continuous Accommodation: Sustainable and evolving accommodations are essential for the child's ongoing development and behavior management.
- Community and Resources: Leveraging available resources and joining supportive communities can significantly aid parents and professionals.
Resources Mentioned:
- Robyn Gobbel’s Book: Raising Kids with Big Baffling Behaviors
- Online Community: "the club" with over 500 members, including videos and resources.
- Professional Training: "being with" program for professionals supporting families.
- Eileen Devine’s Podcast: Brain First Parenting available on eilendevine.com
For more information and to access these resources, listeners are encouraged to visit Robyn Gobbel’s website at robingobel.com and Eileen Devine’s website at eilendevine.com.
Conclusion
Episode 199 of The Baffling Behavior Show offers an in-depth exploration of how relational skills can be understood and scaffolded as brain-based skills. Through the collaborative discussion between Robyn Gobbel and Eileen Devine, listeners gain valuable insights into managing challenging behaviors with empathy and strategic accommodations. This episode serves as a vital resource for parents, educators, and professionals dedicated to supporting children with vulnerable nervous systems.