The Baffling Behavior Show – Ep. 204: The Way of Play with Dr. Tina Payne Bryson

Host: Robyn Gobbel
Guest: Dr. Tina Payne Bryson
Date: January 14, 2025

Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between host Robyn Gobbel and renowned children's mental health expert Dr. Tina Payne Bryson. They discuss Dr. Bryson’s new book The Way of Play (co-authored with Georgie Wisen-Vincent), exploring play as an essential tool for parents, especially those raising children with trauma histories or vulnerable nervous systems. Together, they dig into how principles of interpersonal neurobiology (IPNB) and play therapy can be translated into everyday parenting to foster connection, regulation, skill-building, and resilience.

Main Discussion Points

1. The Transformative Power of Interpersonal Neurobiology (IPNB)

• Professional & Personal Impact:
  Robyn and Dr. Bryson reflect on how discovering Dr. Dan Siegel's IPNB framework profoundly shaped their careers and parenting.
  • “Interpersonal neurobiology hasn’t really just informed my work… it has literally changed my life… Not an exaggeration to say it saved my life.” – Robyn (02:01)
• Making Science Accessible:
  Both speakers emphasize breaking down complex neuroscience into actionable, practical strategies for parents and professionals.
  • “My goal is to change how people see kids’ behaviors and how we respond to them, with the nervous system and safe, predictable, positive relationships in mind.” – Dr. Bryson (06:19)

2. Origins and Purpose of The Way of Play

• Why Write This Book?
  Dr. Bryson explains the motivation: bridging the gap so all caregivers—not just therapists—can use play as a relational and regulatory tool at home.
  • “Play is the way to build relationship with our children, to build their skills… It reduces risk factors. It allows them to process difficult things… and build the brain.” – Dr. Bryson (12:58)
  • “A lot of parents don’t actually know how to play… This book is really about how do you play? How do we take what we know from play therapy and make it everyday?” (13:25)
• Addressing a Resource Gap:
  Robyn highlights the scarcity of parent-friendly resources on therapeutic play:
  • “There are not enough play therapists… We have to break down these barriers and help adults develop these skills.” – Robyn (17:34)

3. The Seven Play Strategies

Robyn enumerates the book’s core strategies and they discuss several in detail:

1. Think Out Loud
2. Make Yourself a Mirror
3. Bring Emotions to Life
4. Dial Intensity Up or Down
5. Scaffold and Stretch
6. Narrate to Integrate
7. Set Playtime Parameters

4. Deep Dive into Key Strategies

Bring Emotions to Life

• Practical Example:
  Dr. Bryson describes introducing emotions to toy characters during play to expand children’s emotional vocabulary and regulation skills.
  • “I could also bring emotions to life in that moment and say, ‘Oh, but it’s so high. It’s so scary. I don’t know if I’ve ever done this before.’ I just introduce an emotion this character might feel in the situation…” (15:26)
  • This approach leads to rich skill-building and makes room for children to problem-solve, support, and express empathy in a natural context.
• Building Emotional Agility and Resilience:
  • “The most important social-emotional skills aren’t just emotional vocabulary but emotional agility… the ability to monitor and modify your state.” – Dr. Bryson (24:26)
  • Regulation is not just self-soothing but noticing and shifting states—skills built through playful, low-stakes practice.

Make Yourself a Mirror

• Attunement Through Mirroring:
  • Dr. Bryson recommends tuning into and reflecting children’s body language, facial expressions, and vocalizations (BFV), boosting connection and activating mirror neurons.
  • “You’re not copying them where you mimic every single thing… But when we use our body, face, and voice to reflect back…it is incredible in terms of attunement and our child feeling felt, known, seen.” (31:18)
• For All Ages and States:
  • Works for pretend play and also for chaotic, dysregulated kids who aren’t yet engaging in structured play.
  • “If they’re jumping, you jump too… blow bubbles when they blow bubbles. The possibilities are endless.” – Robyn (34:13)
• Normalizes Repair:
  When kids resist mirroring (“Don’t do that!”), it's an opportunity for repair, flexibility, and humor.
  • “You can be playful in those moments—throw in an accent or say, ‘Show me how. I want to play the way you want.’” – Dr. Bryson (36:33)

5. Play as Protective and Attainable – Even for Burned-Out Parents

• Small, Manageable Doses:
  Both stress that even a few minutes—using simple strategies—can be effective, especially important for overwhelmed parents.
  • “It’s just broken down into such bite-sized, little doses…with so much structure. When people are stressed out…just tell them what to do.” – Robyn (37:16)
• Play Helps Parents Too:
  • “When we are really stressed out and we feel we can’t access play and playfulness, that means we need it more than anything.” – Dr. Bryson (40:29)
  • Play can be as simple as joining your child and staying present, and it regulates adults as well.
• Play as Stress Relief & Cooperation Booster:
  Play signals safety, making it easier for children to cooperate and reducing conflict.
  • “It’s so much more effective than demand… [And] protects our own nervous system so much more.” (43:11)

6. Broader Effects of Play

• Window into the Child’s World:
  • Play reveals a child’s inner world, giving parents insight into emotions, needs, and experiences that may not be verbally expressed.
  • “When kids won’t say it, they often play it.” – Dr. Bryson (46:33)
• Opportunities for Practice:
  • Through play, children practice compromise, frustration tolerance, social skills, and regulation in ways that generalize to other settings.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Making Science Practical:
  “I was seeking to understand mechanism… not just what to do, but why.” – Dr. Bryson (04:30)
• On Play as the Centerpiece:
  “It’s crazy that we’re at a time in history where we have to defend the right of children to play.” – Dr. Bryson (13:13)
• For Play-Reluctant or Burned-Out Adults:
  “If you only read the captions and the illustrations and the pull quotes… you’ll have the actionable stuff you need.” (40:29)
• On Mirroring:
  “It’s fundamentally about all about attachment… If you don’t feel playful, this is a great one—no big cognitive load.” – Dr. Bryson (35:06)
• On Curiosity as a Connector:
  “Can we open up something that brings in curiosity? Because curiosity and connection mode go together.” – Robyn (46:03)
• On Not Over-Interpreting Play:
  “Don’t read into it too much… Sometimes kids just play out themes. But it is a great way to join with your child in what they’re working through.” – Dr. Bryson (46:33)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:47 – Robyn’s intro: IPNB, Dr. Siegel, and Tina Payne Bryson’s influence
• 04:30 – Dr. Bryson’s journey to IPNB and making research accessible
• 11:31 – Why “The Way of Play” was written; what sets it apart
• 15:26 – “Bring Emotions to Life” play example and strategy details
• 19:01 – Gaps in parent play resources and the need for the book
• 24:26 – Emotional agility, co-regulation, and the science of regulation
• 31:18 – Explaining “Make Yourself a Mirror” for body, face, and voice
• 37:16 – Addressing parental burnout: Play as accessible, bite-size, and healing
• 40:29 – Play as stress relief for parents and more effective than demand
• 46:33 – Play as a window to the child’s world and real-life skill practice
• 50:43 – Book launch information and pre-order bonuses

Resources Mentioned

• The Way of Play by Tina Payne Bryson & Georgie Wisen-Vincent (release: Jan 21, 2025)
• Additional parent resources: robingobbel.com/freeresources
• Pre-order bonuses for The Way of Play: live Q&A event, PDFs on playroom setup, downloadable “refrigerator sheet”
• Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen (book recommendation)
• Training and community resources: The Club, Baffling Behavior Training Institute (robingobbel.com/immersion)

Tone & Closing Thoughts

The episode is warm, personal, supportive, and practical—peppered with humor, validation for struggling parents, and clear, actionable ideas. Dr. Bryson and Robyn repeatedly stress that play is not about perfection, but about small, meaningful connections that build resilience for both kids and adults.

“Play is the way. We need it as much as our kids do. And it’s possible—even if your nervous system is fried.” – Dr. Bryson (40:29)

Listeners leave with encouragement, concrete tools, and a sense of community on the journey of parenting after trauma.