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The Jimmy Dore Show
Abandon Harris Movement Punishes Kamala! w/ Kshama Sawant
00:59:42
Committed socialist politician and activist Kshama Sawant and Abandon Harris co-founder Hassan Abdel Salam joined The Jimmy Dore Show guest hosts Russell Dobular and Keaton Weiss to discuss their opposition to the Biden administration’s support for...
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- [00:00]
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- [00:45]
Jimmy Dore
Hey, come see us on two. We're going to be in Los Angeles, Columbus, Ohio, Dayton, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Lexington, Kentucky, Burbank, California and Honolulu. Go to Jimmy Dore.com for a link for tickets.
- [00:56]
Russell Dobular
Hello there, this is the Jimmy Dore Show, Russell speaking. Who's calling, please?
- [01:02]
Joe Biden
Hello, Jimmy, this President Joe Biden.
- [01:04]
Russell Dobular
Hello, Mr. President, nice to hear from you again. But again, this is Russell Dobular, not Jimmy Dore.
- [01:10]
Joe Biden
I do not give a shit.
- [01:11]
Russell Dobular
Okay, all right.
- [01:13]
Joe Biden
You know, don't take that personally. I don't give a shit about anything anymore. I have the honor of having the longest lame duck face of any president in U.S. history. And let me tell you, Steph, I am taking full advantage of that. You can see my apathy from space along with the Great Wall of China.
- [01:30]
Russell Dobular
Well, that's. That's reassuring. I assume that explains your comments the other day.
- [01:34]
Joe Biden
What comments? I make a lot of comments.
- [01:36]
Russell Dobular
The comments where you called Donald Trump supporters a bunch of garbage.
- [01:39]
Joe Biden
Okay, now hold on, Buster Brown. You know damn well I was referring to the comment that little guy made at the Trump rally when he called the entire island of Puerto Rico a floating garbage patch. Come on, man. Come on, you know that. Come on.
- [01:53]
Russell Dobular
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that. That guy was a roast comic who did an ill advised joke. And you are the sitting President of the United States.
- [02:03]
Joe Biden
Quite frankly, I don't see a difference.
- [02:06]
Russell Dobular
And let me add that no one is falling for your administration's attempt to do some grammatical gymnastics to make it seem like you said something else.
- [02:16]
Joe Biden
Nor should you rush. I expect everyone to see through that. Obviously they have to do it, but it ain't gonna fool nobody. I called half the country garbage and I'll do it again. Hey, you support Trump, you're garbage. And you could take that to the savings alone and start a savings account with it. Get a handy little passbook and everything. Take that trash, boys.
- [02:38]
Russell Dobular
With the race neck and neck like this, do you think that's gonna help Kamala Harris?
- [02:44]
Joe Biden
I could not give Leslie a. That's not my job. She wanted this so bad, she's got to deal with a lot of stuff in the campaign, including her boss pulling the rug out from under. Do you Russia. Do you support Kamala Harris for president?
- [02:58]
Russell Dobular
No. No, I don't.
- [02:59]
Joe Biden
Well, then you're garbage too, buddy boy. How dare you? Trash. Just trash.
- [03:04]
Russell Dobular
This makes no sense.
- [03:07]
Joe Biden
Doesn't have to. I just like calling people garbage. And I'm not going with this pussy ass basket of deplorable shit. I'm saying full on garbage. Way to get that trash boy. Hey, who's that other guy sitting there?
- [03:20]
Russell Dobular
It's my co host, Keaton. He's backstage.
- [03:22]
Joe Biden
Oh, yeah. See, when I wrote this, I thought you'd both be out there. Anyway, he's garbage, too. I don't know anything about him, but usually stuff that's next to garbage or backstage from garbage is also garbage. Or at least semi garbage.
- [03:35]
Keaton Weiss
Garbage, I always say. Yes. Yes.
- [03:38]
Joe Biden
There he is.
- [03:39]
Keaton Weiss
Yes.
- [03:40]
Russell Dobular
Wow. You really don't care, do you?
- [03:42]
Joe Biden
What did I tell you? I don't give a about anything. I said it and I meant it.
- [03:47]
Russell Dobular
Well, what can we expect from you and your administration moving forward?
- [03:52]
Joe Biden
Oh, man, Rusty. After Kamala loses on Tuesday, it's going to be full on talking. I'm going to call everyone garbage. Senators, judges, media guys in the White House kitchen I don't like. There's going to be no holding back. Also, I'm thinking about refusing to leave the White House too.
- [04:10]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
What?
- [04:12]
Joe Biden
Yeah. Sounds kind of fun, huh? A fun gag. In 2020, Trump got to claim the election was stolen from him and caused all that chaos. Why don't I get to do something like that? As my last political act to threaten the Republic and the peaceful transition of power. But not in a dangerous way. No riots or anything. I just refuse to leave and they can't find me. Like a massive game of hide and seek in the White House. The whole world will be panicking, and I'm just hiding in a supplies closet.
- [04:41]
Russell Dobular
Mr. President, I'm sorry, this sounds beneath you.
- [04:45]
Joe Biden
Does it? Really? Really does it? Let's be real, man. This whole thing's a joke. This country's a joke, and I don't give a anymore.
- [04:56]
Russell Dobular
Well, I guess that's that then.
- [04:58]
Joe Biden
Yeah. Hey, do me a favor. When you talk to Jimmy again? Yeah, call him garbage. He'll never recover from that. You never will. All right, trash bags, I got ahead. It's time for NAP number three, followed by zero meetings later.
- [05:17]
Russell Dobular
Later, Mr. President. Go MAGA.
- [05:24]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Establishment media sucks. So good luck.
- [05:43]
Keaton Weiss
Welcome to the Jimmy Dore show, everybody. Keaton Weiss and Russell Dobular of due dissidents filling in for Jimmy, who will be back on Friday. But not in studio no, no. There will be a live rumble time show this Friday and so make sure you tune into that. That's going to be quite something right now.
- [06:03]
Russell Dobular
It's going to be with Tucker, right?
- [06:05]
Keaton Weiss
Yep, with Tucker Carlson will be a guest at that show. Right now we have a couple of guests that I want to introduce here. First. Shama Sawant is a socialist politician and economist who served on the Seattle city council from 2014 to 2024. She was the first and only member of the Socialist Alternative Party to date to be elected to public office on the City Council. She helped win, among other progressive policies, a $15 minimum wage for city workers. This year, she left Socialist Alternative to found Revolutionary Workers and Workers Strike Back, a group fighting to build the working class movements needed to overturn capitalism. Did all that before breakfast. Shama Sawant, our friend. Great to see you again, Shama.
- [06:50]
Shama Sawant
So great to be with you again.
- [06:52]
Keaton Weiss
Awesome. Thank you so much. And she is joined by Dr. Hassan Abdel Salaam. He has a PhD in Sociology, three law degrees and a Bachelor of Science in Psychology. He's taught at the UN mandated University for Peace, University of Melbourne in Australia, Wits University in South Africa, Davidson College, New York University, and the University of Minnesota. He was also a visiting researcher at Harvard Law School and a visiting scholar at Pennsylvania Law School. He is a co founder of the Abandoned Harris Movement and executive director of the Civil Rights alliance for America, the organization coordinating the Abandoned Harris movement. Once again, Dr. Hassan Abdel Salaam. Great to see you. Thank you for joining us as well.
- [07:36]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Amazing to be here. Hey everyone.
- [07:38]
Keaton Weiss
It is terrific to have the team all gathered here on the same zoom call, so to speak. I want to jump right in. Hasan, you founded Abandoned Biden, which then of course became Abandoned Harris. Russ met both of you guys in person at the organizing meeting in Chicago during the dnc. At the time, you had planned to organize a boycott campaign against the Democratic ticket this fall. Earlier this month, of course, you formally endorsed Green Party nominee Jill Stein and chose the Green Party and the Jill Stein campaign as the direction to which you would orient this protest vote. The Abandoned Harris Campaign, a group that has actively campaigned against reelecting a Democrat in November, announced Monday. Like I said, this was earlier this month. It is endorsing Green Party nominee Jill Stein for president. We are not choosing between a greater evil and a lesser evil state of the group in a statement. We are confronting two destructive forces, one currently overseeing a genocide and another equally committed to continuing it. Both are determined to see it through. We call on Muslim Americans and all those who stand firmly against genocide to vote for the green party in 2024. So let's back it up a few steps before then, because you guys are both terrific organizers. Whoever wants to take this first, either one of you, how did you two connect and decide to join forces, first behind a protest vote and later behind the Jill Stein campaign? Either one wants to go. You guys are too polite to be. This is a rude show.
- [09:29]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Shama, being the noble person she is, came to our convention in Chicago. We were a few blocks away from the DNC and we were launching a ban in Harris. And she came with her microphone, giving us an opportunity, a platform to speak, to share our stories. And she invited me to come to Grace Church. And there in Chicago, I shared my story of being tortured, attacked, detained at the hands of Israeli forces, and why this has motivated me, the trauma of that experience to pursue abandoned Biden, now abandoned Harris, and to ensure that we can hold accountable a government that we could depose the leaders who sit atop a superpower because of their genocide. It's been a remarkable partnership, Shama teaching, guiding me. I haven't been an organizer as long as she has. And it's an opportunity for us at Abaddon Harris to learn from her wisdom and experience and all that she brings to a campaign to finally hold accountable people who have heard our call for almost a year again and again and again, we've come out and they've ignored us. And now we're six days away from the election. I'm talking to you now from our headquarters here in Michigan, Dearborn. And we are preparing our campaign active operational through the swing states to finally say that history forever will recall this moment that people of conscience came out and ensured that an administration was held accountable for their despicable acts of torture, funding a genocide for now a year.
- [11:22]
Keaton Weiss
Sharma.
- [11:23]
Shama Sawant
Yeah, just add to what brother Harrison already said, which is that we were able to connect at their press conference. You know, they, and I would say that one of the highlights of that press conference was how almost thoroughly the corporate media had boycotted that conference. But for us, for us as socialists, as Marxists, as anti war activists. It was clear that history was in the process of being made because there were, you know, speaker after speaker at this press conference and they had speakers, Muslim and Arab speakers from around the country. And of course, Hassan himself spoke. There were so many others who spoke, and many of them said, I used to be a lifelong Democrat, but enough. Because if genocide is not a red line, then there isn't a red line. And it was very clear that they were looking for a real alternative to the Democrats and Republicans. And there was a very clear understanding that they are both warmongering parties and that Harris and Trump are both warmongering candidates and that we needed to organize together. And that's why it's so crucial that Abandoned Harris and Workers Strike Back have been able to join hands in this way. Because it is, it is. I mean, it's only the beginning. I will say it as just as a sobering reality, which I'm sure everybody here will agree with me on this, that this is only the beginning. But it is such an important beginning. And it demonstrates two things. What we have been able to achieve so far demonstrates two things. One is this kind of unity on a principled basis is absolutely crucial. You know, sectarianism, where every group is sort of against each other because of whatever, you know, small reasons, their own careerist reasons and all that, that is part of a really negative aspect of the movement. But at the same time it has to be on a principled basis, meaning unity among anti war activists. Unity bringing anti war activists from the Muslim and Arab communities alongside the rank and file working people and union members who are also fighting against the war, many of whom are also angry at the cost of living crisis. And that, you know, that we are clear that the workers movement and the anti war movement needs to go together. And then it also demonstrates one other thing which I think is. So it's just a defining feature, unfortunately, of the American left today, which is that I think you can literally count the number of organizations who are willing to stand up against the Democratic Party in a very clear way on the issue of genocide on fingers of one hand. I mean, and I should also commend due dissidents and Keaton and Russell themselves for having taken a stand on this very clearly. And also all of us having said very clearly that we need to maximize the vote for the Jill Stein campaign as the strongest anti war pro worker campaign this year as a stepping stone towards building a real antiwar movement. And I mentioned that last point because as I Said it's really unfortunate and disgusting. And history is going to judge many of these leaders who have refused to take a clear position against Kamala Harris. In fact, not only that, they're actually cheerleading Kamala Harris, they're cheerleading the Democratic Party and fear mongering in a completely unreal and rotten way, saying that actually the real test of courage is if you are willing to vote for Harris against Trump, not the real test of courage being against both genocidal warmongering parties.
- [14:55]
Russell Dobular
You mentioned careerism. We did a segment on uncommitted and how they put out a video Talking about Project 2025 and going on about how you couldn't support Trump without saying that they're endorsing Harris. And then we found a video of a very popular tiktoker, millions of subscribers who started talking about how she was approached to make videos exactly like that about Project 2025 and they were going to pay her $15,000. Is that what's going on there? Are they being paid to not take a position against Harris and to kind of covertly campaign for her in that way?
- [15:48]
Shama Sawant
That's a very important question you've asked Russell and I would like Hassan also to weigh in on this and also share some of the things that the abandoned Harris, which used to be abandoned Biden has experienced at the hands of these so called leaders of the uncommitted movement. I mean the uncommitted movement is a genuine movement with 750,000 people voting uncommitted in the primary. I'm talking specifically about the self appointed leadership of the uncommitted movement who are so cozy with the Democratic Party and the treatment that abandoned Harris activists have had at the hands of both them and Rashida Tlaib. But on your question, Russell, I think that, yes, I mean money is part of it in terms of funding for their pet NGO projects, which means their own careers really. We saw this happening in the Black Lives Matter movement as well, where again Sunrise Movement and the Sunrise Movement, exactly. Yeah. Two very prominent and important examples for us to not forget about what lessons there are and how they took money for their pet NGOs and just almost overnight distanced themselves completely with all the demands of the BLM movement in 2020. We're seeing the same thing happening here again, although to be clear, and Hassan will weigh in on this, that they were not the ones who actually started the uncommitted effort and in fact they, the abandoned effort actually predates the uncommitted effort. But the point is that, yes, Money is part of it. Careerism comes in different forms though. It is both their own pet projects. It's also people, I'm sure being promised plum positions in the Harris cabinet. I have no doubt that's happening because it has happened before many times and it will continue to happen. We know of actual examples, for example, even in Seattle, where Somali American activists who are strongly with us were offered plum positions in the mayor's office. And to their credit they refused. But that's how we know that actually this type of thing happens. But one other thing I'll say is that this type of careerism comes not only in the form of actual concrete bribes, so to say, being offered, but it's also in the form of so called leaders or self appointed leaders choosing a cozy path for themselves. Because even if it wasn't about money or positions in some sort of administration, your life personally, if you are the leader of a movement where you are clearly charting a course for the movement that is independent of the establishment, that is becoming by definition an adversary of the ruling class, then they will come after you in every which way way. And for you to remain principled, you have to accept that as part of the terrain. That yeah, they're going to hate on you every day in every possible way. They are going to attack you in the media. And when you go to, you know, they're the movement building work, it is not going to be a cozy environment. You will have to one again and again go up against people and never lose your nerve. That is the part that's not often talked about and that is often one of the main reasons that people decide that, well, I'm not just going to do this. It's so much easier to be nice to the Democrats and go with their program. And you know, so in other words, just being part of that revolving door of jobs in government or jobs in corporations, elected positions, getting rewarded for what you do in office with cushy jobs after being in office. All of that goes around, keeps going around. But I think that is much more visible than dishes. Just the overall phenomenon of how actually the real courage that the people are showing today are leaders like Hassan, who and others in abandoned Harris, who are standing up against enormous amounts of pressure for them to cave in and support Harris.
- [19:46]
Keaton Weiss
Hasan, did you want to add anything to that?
- [19:48]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Yeah, Muslim Americans, Arab Americans voted for the president in droves, 85 to 90%. And this has been a struggle in our community. Now I can tell you, campaigning, we've, we've won this debate and we feel that it really doesn't make much sense to operate in such a way that you call for the end of genocide. But then you say that your only choice is the Democratic Party. To be a credible threat means the capacity to withdraw your support. The withdrawal that leads to a consequence which is of course the loss of power that we can show with our numbers, we are capable of deciding this election. To then say that you can't vote third party and that your only home is a Democratic Party that is caving in, that implies that this protest movement really had no teeth. And so this is where I'm puzzled. We at abandoned Biden, abandoned Harris, have been uncompromising because we are talking about the value of life. We have to save this country from itself, this party politics. Two parties that are in cahoots. The oligopoly, the despicable foreign policies, American exceptionalism. How can this end? How can you actually demonstrate you're a credible threat? Many people, they come to us and wonder and ask, why did you endorse Jill Stein, the Green Party? And there are many good reasons. Her courage, her conscience. Someone who's arrested, committed against, anti, fighting against genocide, trying to galvanize the anti genocide vote. But one aspect, so critical from a strategic standpoint is that we cannot work within these parties, parties that have indulged, accepted, enabled genocide of all things, the greatest crime that can be committed between any human beings. And so you have to stand at a distance from these political parties and draw a line and then actually begin the process of issuing your ulta made of demonstrating that you have power and hence working within the Green Party, outside these two despicable parties with their two candidates, genociders, one who's actually engaging in a genocide and the other one who says that he will finish the job, quote, unquote. We believe fundamentally that we have to leverage power and that it means building a party, even if it doesn't mean winning, but showing that at our hands within the Green Party we can ensure a defeat.
- [22:33]
Jimmy Dore
Hey, you know, here's another great way you can help support the show is you become a premium member. We give you a couple of hours of premium bonus content every week and it's a great way to help support the show. You can do it by going to jimmy dorkomedy.com clicking on join Premium. It's the most affordable premium program in the business and it's a great way to help put your thumb back in the eye of the bastards. Thanks for everybody who was already a premium member. And if you haven't you're missing out. We give you lots of bonus content. Thanks for your support.
- [23:07]
Keaton Weiss
You guys at Abandon Harris and Workers Strike Back recently endorsed Jill Stein for president. So you triggered one of the all time lib meltdowns here. This was from Keith Edwards. Wow. At an event before introducing Dr. Jill Stein, Shama Sawant admits that Stein can't win and is only in the race to prevent Kamala Harris from winning. My, my, my. Make sure everyone sees this. My pleasure. My pleasure to spread the word about this, Keith. Apparently Keith Edwards never heard of the Streisand effect because he made the same mistake in a video featuring Hasan the next day. But here's Shama Sawant at the organizing event for Jill Stein with Workers Strike Back at Abandoned Harris has already started.
- [23:51]
Shama Sawant
Absentee ballots have been sent. We need to catch up rapidly. We need everyone here to get active. We need to be clear about what our goals are. We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic. We could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.
- [24:30]
Keaton Weiss
There you go. He tweets out two days later, breaking same guy, Keith Edwards, whoever that is. As Dr. Jill Stein looks on, Jill Stein endorser Hassan Abdel Salam admits their goal is for Donald Trump to win the election here.
- [24:47]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Saan no mistake that this rumble of abandon guarantees a failure for the Vice President, the loss of Michigan and the loss of the White House. That we can depose the leaders who sit atop a superpower. A success that will happen immediately when we know the results on the 5th of November.
- [25:12]
Keaton Weiss
There you go. So I'll be honest and speak for myself. I'm supporting Jill Stein. I'm voting for Jill Stein not because I believe in Jill Stein, but because I believe in the two of you and in the teams that you have built. And the reason I say that is because that what we just heard from each of you is what we need in third parties. We need third parties to not just be alternative parties, as our friend Nick Cruz says, but oppositional parties. Third parties should be proud to take votes from Democrats and put it into, in this context, an anti genocide party. And you both articulated that in ways that frankly, unfortunately, the Greens seem a little sheepish to. So explain how you both came to that strategy, which is just leaning headfirst into. You want to call us a spoiler? Fine. We are here to ruin your night. We are here to ruin this election for you. I think that's Brilliant. I love that. I love that attitude. That's an attitude I wish the Greens had, quite frankly. If you want to comment on that, feel free. Whoever wants to go first, go ahead.
- [26:19]
Shama Sawant
Hassan.
- [26:21]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Truthfully, we came up and devised a strategy in October. We were dismayed by the images of genocide. I spoke to my research assistant. I told him that I didn't think the Ceasefire now protests would work. And I knew that the greatest pressure that could be applied was through our votes. And we needed a place for us to deploy the strategy. The Green Party advances our strategy in a way that is not only compelling, but will be historic. So we endorse them primarily because they're a strategic vehicle to ensure the defeat. In the name of genocide, in the name of ending genocide. One of the things that we see with Jill Stein is that she's iconic. She represents everything we believe an administration, a White House should embody. Her dedication, her conscience. And so not only does she model what we believe should be taking place in our country, she's willing to take the blame, as she says, something that is really important. For this strategy to work, you have to be willing to take the blame. This is what I describe to our community. Our goal is to punish the vice President because of her genocide, then take the blame for her defeat in so doing, by power, in order to send a signal to the political landscape that you should never have ignored us. History is filled with these examples, from Ross Perot to Bernie Sanders. The Progressive's early 20th century third parties are extremely influential. It is the deception and propaganda. People dripping, telling you, dripping with the words that your vote is wasted. So untrue it can transform both political parties. When you use a third party as a vehicle to speak to the nation and alter its policies forever.
- [28:19]
Keaton Weiss
Well, Shama, I'll toss to you, but I just want to set this up a little bit more specifically in your case, because you said in the clip we just showed, we have to be honest, we are not in a position to win, but we are in a position to cost Kamala the race. Basically, we're in a position not to win, but to influence the outcome. And the way I interpret that is there's power in influencing the outcome even if you cannot win outright. And what do you think is the importance of communicating that and communicating that in an honest way? Hey, look, we're not equipped for a straight up victory here. But influencing the outcome in a way that hurts Kamala Harris is a victory in and of itself.
- [29:00]
Shama Sawant
I think it is important to be honest and truthful. With working people, with, you know, in a working class movement, that this is what we could achieve. And it's even, you know, even, let's be clear, even that is a tall order. I made that clear in my speech that we should not get complacent even about this goal of defeating Harris in Michigan. And what I mean, what we mean by defeating Harris in Michigan, obviously, is, as Hassan said, is maximizing the vote for Jill Stein. That's hard. That's a hard thing to achieve because it's literally pounding the pavement getting out the vote. And we've done that many times in Seattle. Workers Strike Back, activists, socialists, we've done this many times. But that's precisely why we know how hard it is. But the point is that I think we felt, those of us who are socialists and Workers Strike Back, we felt that it was important to clarify that because unfortunately, and you alluded to this, Keaton, I think there's been a tendency in the Green Party and the Jill Stand campaign to give somewhat of a rosy picture of what could happen, even maybe winning, possibly, or 5%. And I think that is misleading, first of all. So by just virtue of that, I don't accept that, but it's actually a little more serious than that. And I've spoken to them directly. It's not something that they've not heard from me about. And we have had a friendly disagreement in a public way because it's important that people participate in that kind of discussion and debate inside the movement and yet work together towards a common goal. And the reason is that we, you know, if we go around telling people that there is actually a chance of doing far, far better than what the actual chances are, then come election night, when the votes are tallied, and, you know, it'll take a few days, most likely, for the votes to be tallied. But when final vote is tallied, the response of working people could either be, I was told we might even win or at least do much better than this. This is a demoralizing result. I'm just going to check out. Or it could be, I was told that we could actually do this, and we either came close to doing it or and we fought hard to do it, or we actually did it. Either way, the message is a message of empowerment, of emboldening, that, hey, let's take this and go forward with that. And that is why Workers Strike Back has also always posed our work in the Jill Stein campaign as the first step this year and a necessary step, because breaking from the Democrats is a crucial step towards actually ending the genocide, ending the war against workers. You know, all of that, you know, building a real resistance. And I agree with Nick that we need oppositional parties, not alternative parties. And I think that's where some of the disagreement comes in. And I just wanted to say, in addition to what Hassan was saying about, you know, we. Why. Why we are posing this as a political moral imperative that we have to fight to defeat Kamala Harris. And the party that is leading the support for the genocide is not because we are obviously, and the four of us know this, but just to state it very clearly, it's not that we are blind to the fact that Trump is also, as Hasan said, he's going to double down on it. We are very clear. But the point is that what is the strategy to actually achieve that? The strategy to actually achieve this cannot be to go ahead and support the party that is actually right now carrying out the genocide. How is there any hope to actually end the genocide and for the anti war movement to succeed if the message isn't loud and clear that any party that signs off on genocide is going to be opposed by us. That genocide is a red line. And we refused to cross it. We refused to cross it. But also to be clear, genocide is, I mean, it's obviously a particularly horrendous and just an example of just deep inhumanity, this river of blood that is flowing in Palestine of the Palestinian people now, in Lebanon. But let's be clear that this is not the first red line the Biden administration and the Democratic Party, the Biden, Harris administration and the Democratic Party have crossed. They already have broken the railroad workers strike. And I would say that was one of the first red lines that we should be talking about. We cannot cross. No strike breaker deserves the vote of working people ever. That's also a red line. And then, of course, they have broken a whole series of promises on student debt, on Medicare for All. I mean, the list just goes on and on. And you can see Kamala Harris, you know, she made some vague promises towards Medicare for All ending, fracking all of that. She's flipped all of that. And she is now, you know, she's a cardboard cutout who is willing to say anything that needs to be said in order to uphold the interest not just of the Democratic Party, but the Democratic Party itself is the part, is a party of the ruling class of US Capitalism. Both the Democrats and Republicans are. And as a matter of fact, the Democratic Party is right now the most powerful political party representing the interests of capitalism in the world. This is not a lesser evil. And, you know, it's not a party that represents working class interests, let alone the party that's going to end the genocide. No, it's the party that is carrying on the genocide with all kinds of enthusiasm, with unreserved support for the Israeli military. And so, you know, so that's the only strategy for whether it is to end the war or for working people to fight back. That has to be. That road only goes through at the moment. You know, our goal needs to be to cause as much damage as possible to the Democratic Party. And so, you know, not only have labor leaders said, sort of express real disbelief at what we have said, and as you said, Keaton, an epic liberal meltdown was triggered by our comments. But the fact is that it is actually our political duty to cause maximum damage to Kamala Harris's campaign and to the Democratic Party. And you can see with the poll after poll, even now, just days away from the election night, you can see the polls are getting closer and closer. And actually, Kamala Harris has lost her honeymoon advantage. And all of that is telling you it's not just abandoned Harris and Workers Strike Back. It's that working people as a whole are starting to see through this ploy of these two parties that are supposedly oppositional to each other, but really are both, despite whatever rhetorical differences they might have, they represent the interests of American capitalism, and one is not an alternative to the other. And let's be clear, there are also people who think Trump is a lesser evil to Harris. They are also, unfortunately, in for a rude surprise because he isn't. They are both representatives, despite their differences of the ruling class. And that is why I think as a strategy piece, as Hassan was saying, focusing on swing states like Michigan has been absolutely crucial for us. And I'll just say, you know, we have workers Strike Back activists right now on the ground in Michigan. They have set aside their lives for three whole weeks, some, in some cases four whole weeks, in order to do this 247 and abandoned Harris is, you know, right with us there. It is very, very important what we're doing. And I'm a little disappointed that the Jill Stand campaign and the Green Party hasn't been building the campaign that we need to see them building on the ground in Michigan.
- [36:50]
Keaton Weiss
Yeah, that is quite the tea to spill there, but I will hold on. Sorry.
- [36:56]
Russell Dobular
Go ahead, Russell Hasan. As we get into the closing days of the campaign, we're seeing a lot of liberals and vote blue, no matter who Democrats, they know that there's a genocide going on. It's very difficult to justify voting for Kamala Harris, but in the closing days, they are falling back on their standard hits. Love is love choices on the ballot. I'm voting for choice. I'm voting for women's freedom. Now, as somebody who's witnessed, and Bernie Sanders just came and really laid that out very starkly, there were other things going on than Gaza and began to list these kinds of domestic social issues. What is it like for somebody who has been on the receiving end of Israeli brutality, who's witnessed it firsthand, to see people who consider themselves left, who consider themselves liberal, who consider themselves humanitarian, saying, yeah, you know, genocide's bad, but abortion? Absolutely.
- [38:13]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
What? And and for us, we do not see the lesser evil argument as being persuasive. There is no milder genocide. There is no gentle genocider. Kamala Harris coming out crying, saying that she knows, has friends or family that have experienced or heard of people who have been killed in Gaza, but by her own hand, she's killing them and crying simultaneously. The height of Orwellian hypocrisy doublespeak that should shock us all, that not only are we dealing with an administration that is engaging in genocide, but that they are displaying autocracy right before our eyes. And so we are in a real battle to protect our nation, to save the nation from these vile forms of dictatorship. And yes, I found myself there in prison, worrying, my heartbeat racing, increasing when I heard the clanking of the keys behind the two metallic doors. The interrogators have returned, my blindfold lifted, claustrophobic shouting, why are you here? What does it mean that you're ending the occupation? These torturers who attacked me told me that the administration knew I was in prison. My company a toilet, hole in the ground, confined spaces poorly lit, the stench right through its evident pouring in the air in my little prison, wishing that I'd be released, but also fearful of who's going to come in. And so when I found myself coming back to America, I experienced a second trauma, the trauma of loneliness. The government didn't care. The government knew that people all around didn't know my story. And so I have no other choice. I have no other choice. People in America are not malicious. If they experienced the imprisonments, the attacks, if they met brother Faris, who there I met in prison, pacing right in front of me, anxiously back and forth, me sitting in front of him, feigning calmness to bring solace to our brother. He asked me, what would you do if you go back Home. And I didn't think I'd ever return. With their wicked smiles, they would barge into the interrogation room promising me that I'd never be released. But I answered the question for this young 20 year old, early 20s, married, worried about his family. I told him I would speak out. And the most amazing thing happened. A huge smile appeared on his face. That even in his trauma, what brought him pleasure is that everyone here would know his story, would act, would do something that people oppressed don't want us even to end the bombardments. We can't. Or to make the propaganda vanish. But that what. But what we have is a vote. Priceless. We've diminished it as Americans. And we have an extraordinary opportunity that if you don't want to vote, vote for Brother Faris. This is my message to the American people. You have someone you can vote for. Don't let apathy promoted by the two top political powers reach you. You can get victory. You can get soft revenge by ensuring that these two parties that have been silent at the face of these atrocities come down in your name in the name of Brother Faris. Because why? You stood there and said, genocide is a red line. America should never kill, attack, maim, never side with the criminals. There are choices. Choices that will bring this nation back. A nation of hope. A nation for which we believe its people want goodness all around the world. And join us now and vote for Jill Stein all across the nation, from Michigan to Arizona to Georgia, for a resounding call. All we need is 70,000 votes in Michigan, people who voted for Biden, people who didn't vote to now vote for Jill Stein. 10,000 in Pennsylvania, 10,000 our data shows in Georgia, 10,000 in Arizona, 10,000 in Wisconsin. And make no mistake, on page 79 of that textbook, 30, 40 years from now, those who have voted for Jill Stein will be valorized in the history class. Classes in 21st century American history and the concepts. The questions in class with those teachers in grade nine, grade ten, will be what? As they raise their hands. How was it possible that so many voted for the Vice president? A genocider? And who are these remarkable people who came on this show asking people six days before the election to sacrifice four years under any Republican is incomparable to one day in Gaza. Our country has committed a carnage. Its exceptionalism must come to an end. We follow the light of Martin Luther King that civil rights belong to all people, not just Americans. We don't only remember that Martin Luther King who sung Songs We Shall Overcome on that Selma bridge or who Penned a letter from a Birmingham jail. But that man, a year before his assassination, exactly a year before, who spoke out against the Vietnam War. Join us to end the doublespeak in foreign policy. There is no such thing as a stranger. We are all one. America and the rest of the world must live as one. And that's what we promise you, Shama and I. Workers strike back. Abandon Harris. We look upon the future. A promise of a world not in chaos, genocide, a rain of bombardments on an innocent people on the verge of disintegration. That Michigan and Gaza are one. Arizona and the rest of the world are one. Each of us interconnected. We are Brother Faris. Brother Faris is us. We call on each of you to come out and vote. Do not stay home. There is a choice that awaits you. For you to be part of history, for your great, great grandchildren to valorize you and to know that you did right. Vote. As your great, great, great grandchildren who wish you would vote. Vote against genocide.
- [45:16]
Russell Dobular
Now what? Now what do you say to people who say we won't survive, America won't survive another four years of Trump or he's going to go and take immigrants out of their homes who are fleeing gang violence? So it's selfish not to vote for Kamala Harris? That's for both of you.
- [45:36]
Shama Sawant
Please go ahead. I can come after you.
- [45:39]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Absolutely. When we see people make these arguments for us, the genocide in Gaza is as if it's happening in Louisiana, in the streets of New York or in California. So we put this side by side and we say, you have passed that threshold of no return. There is nothing that you're doing is better because the package itself is rotten. It's inconceivable. If genocide was committed in America, the vice president would lose with 12 percentage points if she were the candidate. We call on Americans to vote as though the actions committed abroad are happening internal to the country, to save America. We also are hoping for gridlock in government, for laws never to be passed by a possible presidency by the Republican. And we are seeking for at every turn to ensure that the struggle that we have been on since this past year we would do again with the Republican Party. And I have a message for people who they asked us, the community. It was so hard to win, to win their approval in November, and now we've won them. We see in our data, we have the numbers to win. But what was extraordinary in November, people asked us in the community all across the nation, but what will happen? What will happen if he comes into power? The despicable candidate. And what will happen to our commitment to the Democratic Party? They would just flush us down the toilet. We will lose leverage. Do you not know that all the time now in the last few months, the Republicans have been pursuing, abandoned Harris for our endorsement. We say never. But they come begging, negotiating, saying that they have messages from on high saying that here is a person who's going to be the Secretary of State. In politics, it's about the vote and it's about money. If we show our power, we will be able, if we hold our ground and we stay at a distance within the Green Party to demonstrate our leverage and transform the political landscape. This next administration will not be a photocopy of 2016. If we do the right thing and show at our hands we can decide who wins the White House and who will win in Congress in 2026.
- [48:14]
Shama Sawant
I mean, I'll just add to those points in terms of, Russell, your question about what we say to people who claim that, well, you know, that with Trump, it's going to be so much worse. I'm paraphrasing your question.
- [48:29]
Russell Dobular
And of course, we're saying we won't survive four more years.
- [48:32]
Shama Sawant
We won't survive four more years. Yeah, just sort of the existential threat. It's fascism. And they're comparing his Madison Square Gardens rally to the pro Nazi rally in 1939. And I've seen a lot of people saying, oh, we're going to lose our right to vote. And I've also been told that because I'm a Marxist, they're like, oh, you're going to be put in a concentration camp. Look, Trump has a deeply reactionary and odious agenda. Trump. And there's a reactionary core in the nation that would like to do all of these things. He has made all kinds of ominous promises, and he has actually said that he's going to deport, you know, outside communists. And I guess because I'm not, you know, I wasn't born here, I'm. I count as one of them, you know, all communists out. He's going to deport them. And then, of course, and he said, I'm going to also take care of the homegrown communists or something like that. And he did a Muslim ban or attempted a Muslim ban when he was first elected into office. And so there's no doubt that his agenda is deeply odious. It's a question of what is the way to actually ward off these things, is the way to make sure that these things don't happen to once Again, vote for the Democratic Party. Absolutely not. As a matter of fact, if you want to make sure that both the Democratic and the Republican parties move ever further to the right to a very dangerous degree, then vote for Kamala Harris. That is a real recipe. Supporting the Democrats unconditionally year after year is exactly what has brought us to this point. And so what I would say is that fascism isn't coming on November 5th. The real danger that we have here is, and especially if you look at the genocide and what will actually continue the genocide, what will continue the genocide is for the anti war movement and working people's movements to never become independent from the Democrats and Republicans. It's in allowing both these parties to continue their relentless drive to the right, their attacks on working people. And there's a, you know, there's a real threat. I mean, there's a threat of wider and wider war. There is also actually a real risk of World War 3 if we don't do something. But that something is not supporting Kamala Harris or any other Democrat anymore. In fact, we need to break from the Democratic Party once and for all. It is not just about Kamala Harris. And I should also say, I mean, Hassan made an interesting point about how the Republicans are trying to woo abandon Harris. I mean, in Michigan right now, the Trump campaign has the nerve to pose as a peace candidate. They literally have billboards that saying, vote Trump, Vote Peace. But the reason they're able to do that, the reason they have the nerve to do that, is because it's very clear to all Muslim and Arab Americans that the Democratic Party has been leading and the Biden Harris administration has been leading on this genocide. And that the way to actually send a message is by not voting for Kamala Harris. And I mean, we would of course strongly prefer that people vote for Jill Stein. And that's why I strongly agree with Hassan's point that at this moment, if any of you are watching this, it doesn't matter where you live. If you're in Michigan, of course, it's especially important, but it doesn't matter which state you're in. If you haven't cast your ballot yet and you want to end the war, you want to stand up for working people, then vote for Jill Stein and if she's not on the ballot, write her in. This is extremely important because it is crucial that we have a singular strategy for the anti war movement, for working people's movements. And I just wanted to say one other thing is that, you know, I think one of you alluded alluded to this a little bit earlier about how, you know, they, they, Kamala Harris, for example, she said, well, you know, I care. Hassan mentioned this. I care about people who have lost family members in Palestine, in Gaza, I know them and so on. But look, people also care about the cost of groceries. Now, leaving aside the completely tone deaf nature of this statement, putting the cost of groceries on the same level as 350,000 people being killed, 902 families being eliminated from the Gaza civil registry because every single person in that family has been killed in the last year in this genocide. I mean, leaving that aside, look at the bald face ness of this. The Democratic Party has, along with the Republican Party, presided over an ever increasing cost of living, whether it's groceries or rent or health care being a serious obstacle and the single most important obstacle to anything like Medicare for all. And for them to have the temerity to say that, oh, well, you know, people are also worried about the cost of living. But you know what, the problem, the reason Harris is running neck and neck with Trump and not able to have a decisive poll against somebody who left office as the most unpopular president in modern US History is precisely because people understand, millions of people understand, even the ones who are going to hold their nose and vote for Harris, understand that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party have been equal partners in worsening the conditions for working people on a steady basis. And so ultimately, it is up to us to actually build a movement that is independent of both parties. And for that, I think we have to maximize the vote for Jill Stein, but not stop there. And that's why, as you all know, and hopefully many of your viewers know, that we have Workers Strike Back has called for a, for an organizing conference in February on February 22nd. And then we're also going to have the Workers Strike Back national convention the day after. And so I really, Hassan, I really hope that Abandoned Harris will be a crucial part of this. I know that you dissidents, you know, Keaton and Russell, you will be there. It's really, really important that everybody who wants to build this anti war movement and working people's movement should also be there.
- [55:01]
Keaton Weiss
All right. Well, that is wonderful. Thank you both so much for joining us. Shama Sawant from Worker strike back and Dr. Hassan Abdel Salaam from Abandoned Harris, great pleasure talking to you both. Good luck over the next six days. And as Shama just said, that's not the end, that is the beginning. Great pleasure to see you both. Thank you for joining us.
- [55:28]
Jimmy Dore
You talk about woke Ideology is even used to legitimize American militarism and empire.
- [55:36]
Mike McRae
That this one is like, if this didn't exist, you'd have to make it up. I mean, except you couldn't make it up because it's so crazy.
- [55:41]
Jimmy Dore
So this was a Here's a tweet from the CIA, and it's about this Latina who is proud to be a CIA agent. And here's the video they put out.
- [55:54]
CIA Officer
When I was 17, I quoted Zora Neale Hurston's How It Feels to Be Colored Me in my college application essay. The line that spoke to me stated simply, I am not tragically colored. There is no sorrow dammed up in my soul nor lurking behind my eyes. I do not mind at all. At 17, I had no idea what life would bring. But Sora's sentiment articulated so beautifully how I felt as a daughter of immigrants, then and now. Nothing about me was or is tragic. I am perfectly made. I can wax eloquent on complex legal issues in English while also belting Guayaquil de mis amores in Spanish. I can change a diaper with one hand and console a crying toddler with the other. I am a woman of color. I am a mom. I am a cisgender millennial who's been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder.
- [56:46]
Jimmy Dore
That is an amazing litany of boxes she just checked there. That is unfricking. It's like almost. If you wanted to write a sketch that made fun of world culture, you would. You wouldn't almost have to change a word of this.
- [56:59]
CIA Officer
But my existence is not a box checking exercise. I am a walking declaration, a woman whose inflection does not rise at the end of her sentences, suggesting that a question has been asked. I did not sneak into CIA. My employment was not and is not the result of a fluke or slip through the cracks. I earned my way in and I earned my way up the rain ranks of this organization. I am educated, qualified and competent. And sometimes I struggle. I struggle feeling like I could do more, be more to my two sons. And I struggle leaving the office when I feel there's so much more to do. I used to struggle with imposter syndrome, but at 36, I refuse to internalize misguided, patriarchal ideas of what a woman can or should be. I am tired of thinking, feeling like I'm supposed to apologize for the space I occupy rather than intoxicate people with my effort, my brilliance. I am proud of me. Full stop. My parents left everything they knew and loved to expose me to Opportunities they never had because now I work for.
- [58:05]
Jimmy Dore
The CIA, helping to wipe out brown people around the world and ruin everything they've ever known and loved and take it away with my military. Here we go. Hey, guys, there's more than.
- [58:16]
CIA Officer
I stand here today a proud first generation Latina and officer at CIA. I am unapologetically me. I want you to be unapologetically you. Whoever you are. Know your worth. Command your space, mija. You're worth it.
- [58:33]
Jimmy Dore
Ok?
- [58:34]
Mike McRae
That is until you cross the United States foreign policy agenda and we come in and overthrow your government and wipe you out.
- [58:42]
Jimmy Dore
Yeah. Yep. That's right. I am a Latina who has. I have social anxiety and imposter syndrome.
- [58:52]
Mike McRae
It's unbelievable. I mean, you want to bring some mind. It's like, it's as crazy as the, like silly, crazy, ridiculous cartoon you've probably seen of, you know, two, you know, people who look like they're, you know, Arabic. It's a cartoon, right? And, and there's a bomber going away. And they say, and they're saying like, they say the next one will be flown by a woman smoking rubble of a village behind them. It's like, I mean, it's that crazy, you know?
- [59:23]
Jimmy Dore
Hey. Become a premium member. Go to jimmy dor comedy.com sign up. It's the most affordable premium program in the business. All the voices performed today are by the one and only, the inimitable Mike McRae. He can be found at mikemcrae.com.
- [59:44]
Shama Sawant
That'S.
- [59:44]
Jimmy Dore
It for this week. You be the best you can be and I'll keep being me.
- [59:56]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Don't.
- [60:00]
Jimmy Dore
Don'T, don't freak out, don't freak out, don't freak out, don't freak out. Do not freak out.
- [60:10]
Shama Sawant
I'm not kidding. Do not, do not.
- [60:13]
Jimmy Dore
I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.
- [60:17]
Hassan Abdel Salaam
Don't freak out, don't freak out, not.
- [60:20]
Jimmy Dore
Freak out, freak out, freak out.