Pam Bondi COMPLETELY MELTS DOWN Under Thomas Massie's Questioning!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Jimmy Dore Show

Episode: "Pam Bondi COMPLETELY MELTS DOWN Under Thomas Massie's Questioning!"
Date: February 13, 2026
Host: Jimmy Dore
Guests: Kurt, Christian Parenti, Survivor/Victim Advocate, Representative Thomas Massie

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Episode Overview

This explosive episode of The Jimmy Dore Show takes a deep dive into the Congressional grilling of Attorney General Pam Bondi over the Department of Justice’s handling of key evidence and victim testimonies in the Jeffrey Epstein case. Jimmy, Kurt, Christian Parenti, and others dissect the bombshell testimony and Bondi’s reactions, highlighting attempts to downplay the exposure of elite co-conspirators, government coverups, and failures to support victims.

The episode transitions from live Congressional highlights—where Rep. Thomas Massie presses Bondi for accountability and transparency—into a roundtable discussion about systemic corruption, broader political complicity, and the failure of establishment media and government to protect the vulnerable. It concludes with a critical look at associated figures like Les Wexner and the weaponization of accusations to avoid tough questions.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Congressional Showdown: Massie vs. Bondi (00:25–07:04)

Discussion:

• Rep. Thomas Massie repeatedly questions AG Pam Bondi about major evidence redactions, particularly regarding the release of victim names and the repeated redacting of Les Wexner—Victoria’s Secret mogul—as a co-conspirator (00:25–03:02).
• Bondi attempts to downplay the errors, but Massie interrupts, demanding answers and highlighting the clear lack of transparency and legal compliance.

Notable Exchange:

• Massie (01:27): “Are you able to track who in your organization made this massive failure and released the victim's names? Are you able to track who it was that obscured Les Wexner's name as a co-conspirator in an FBI document?”
• Bondi (02:15): “Let me finish my answer... We corrected that within 40 minutes. You're acting like everybody's trying to cover up Wetner’s name.”
• Massie (02:31): "Reclaiming my time."

Jimmy’s Commentary (03:16):

• Dore mocks Bondi’s insults at Massie, asking, “What is the definition of a successful politician? Does that mean they can all be found in a photo with Jeffrey Epstein?” (03:16)

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2. DOJ Accused of Cover-Up: Redacting Perpetrators, Outing Victims (03:29–08:36)

Key Points:

• Massie calls out former DOJ official Kash Patel and Bondi for false claims that no evidence exists against other traffickers (03:29–04:09).
• Bondi offers a noncommittal defense, deflecting with unrelated attacks and refusing to acknowledge Massie’s central questions about Wexner’s exoneration (04:19–05:10).

Quote—Massie:

• (04:31): “I want to know at what point, at what point did the FBI and the DOJ decide that Lex Wessner was not a co-conspirator? Because our Epstein files Transparency act requires you... To release the internal decision about whether to prosecute him or not.”

Jimmy’s Response (05:10):

• “They’re breaking the law… Her response is to call him a Trump derangement syndrome guy, to call him a failed politician. This is, this is how she… She’s completely melting down here.”

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3. The "Meltdown" & Deflection (05:53–08:36)

Bondi’s Tactics:

• She ignores the heat and pivots to personal attacks—accusing Massie of hypocrisy regarding unrelated AI porn legislation—prompting laughter and disbelief from panelists (05:53–06:09).

Quote—Bondi (05:53):

• “He’s a hypocrite because he voted against the ban that we were talking about on deep fake AI porn.”

Panelist Reaction:

• Kurt: “That's hypocritical on any level. I don't even make the connection.” (06:03)
• Jimmy: “She just. That she just changes the subject. That's it.” (06:06)

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4. Testimony from Victim Advocates – Systemic Neglect (07:21–10:35)

Highlights:

• A survivor/victim advocate asks the DOJ panel—on the record—if any of the assembled survivors have ever actually been interviewed by the DOJ; none have, despite all reaching out (07:21–08:35).
• The silence and indifference from Bondi and DOJ officials are called out as deliberate intimidation and further proof of the cover-up.

Quote—Survivor Advocate (08:17):

• “Just by show of hands, how many of you or your loved ones actually have met with the Department of Justice and provided testimony and evidence?”
• Jimmy/Kurt: “None. All of them tried. All of them were ignored.” (08:17–08:18)

Quote:

• Survivor Advocate (10:17): “How many of you were denied or ignored by the Department of Justice… All of them. And despite the shameful and despicable efforts by Ms. Bondi and her department to intimidate you, how many of you are still willing to speak to the Department of Justice? All of them.”

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5. Bondi's Further Meltdown: Changing the Subject, Immigration Distraction (11:29–13:14)

Key Moment:

• Bondi deflects again, pivoting to out-of-context claims about another Congressman’s supposed sympathy for “illegal aliensconvicted of assault and homicide” (11:29–12:03).
• Jimmy points out the irrelevance: “This has nothing to do with this hearing. This is all she can do… Deflect, distract, and change the subject.” (12:03)

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6. Government Complicity & "The Cult of Trumpism" (13:32–16:18)

Discussion:

• Jimmy and Kurt rail against the broader Trump administration and MAGA base for abandoning principles and embracing cult-like loyalty, facilitating such coverups.
• “If you’re still going along with Donald Trump and Pam Bondi… You are a sycophant to power. You have a fetish for Donald Trump… You are the swamp.” (15:14)

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7. The Evidence Unredacted: Wexner & Other Powerful Names Exposed (18:03–23:09)

Key Points:

• Deep dive into Les Wexner’s connections and DOJ efforts to shield other “well-known” men in the files—under pressure, DOJ only revealed Wexner’s name and a UAE sultan after Massie’s insistence.
• DOJ’s claim that redactions were to protect victims is blown up by Massie’s evidence and community fact-checks.

Quotes—Massie:

• (20:14): “Correct. Now he's got four other names. He needs to unredact that.”
• (21:35): “To do what they did in these two examples where I've discovered something and now they've responded.”
• (23:06): “Cash Patel testified to Congress that FBI had no evidence of other traffickers. This is the FBI's own 2019 document listing Wexner as co-conspirator in child trafficking. It wasn't unredacted until tonight.”

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8. DOJ Lies & Public Scrutiny (23:46–26:13)

Jimmy’s Analysis:

• DOJ gets repeatedly “community noted” for lying about their redaction justifications (23:46–25:00).
• Massie’s campaign for full transparency is framed as a fight against elite impunity.

Other Names Involved:

• Newly unredacted evidence shows close connections between Epstein, Bin Suleiman (UAE), Bill Gates, high-level UK and Israeli officials, with references to social/business ties after Epstein’s 2008 conviction.

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9. The Broader Media and Intellectual Cover-Up (45:00–59:57)

Panel Discussion:

• Christian Parenti discusses his father Michael Parenti’s blacklisting from academia for supporting actual socialist regimes, contrasting him with Noam Chomsky’s safe tenure at MIT and reluctance to confront establishment narratives (46:53–52:51).

Quote—Christian Parenti (46:53):

• “There was conflict between my father and Chomsky… my father was one of the few… [saying] the evidence suggests that the CIA had a large role in this conspiracy to kill the president [JFK]... And that’s significant for a number of reasons.”
• Jimmy: “Chomsky dismissing inquiries into the JFK assassination is a red flag…” (51:38)

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10. Exposé: Erica Kirk Vigilance & Social Media Leaks (32:12–44:38)

Segment Summary:

• Jimmy and Kurt discuss recently surfaced messages suggesting predatory “grooming” behavior by Erica Kirk, linking to wider patterns of abuse, cover-up, and elite indifference highlighted earlier in the episode. (32:12–44:38)
• Kurt: “If Charlie Sheen sent this to your daughter, there wouldn’t even be a question what this was.” (40:21)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Rep. Thomas Massie (01:27): “Are you able to track who in your organization made this massive failure and released the victim's names?”
• Pam Bondi (02:15): “We corrected that within 40 minutes.”
• Jimmy Dore (05:10): “They’re breaking the law… Her response is to call him a Trump derangement syndrome guy...”
• Survivor Advocate (08:17): “Just by show of hands, how many of you or your loved ones actually have met with the Department of Justice? ...None.”
• Jimmy Dore (12:03): “This has nothing to do with this hearing. ...Deflect, distract, and change the subject.”
• Jimmy Dore (15:14): “If you’re still going along with Donald Trump and Pam Bondi ... You are the swamp.”
• Representative Massie (20:14): “Now he's got four other names. He needs to unredact that.”
• Christian Parenti (46:53): “My father was one of the few ... the evidence suggests that the CIA had a large role in this conspiracy to kill the president.”

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Tone and Style

• The tone is biting, irreverent, and highly skeptical of authority.
• Jimmy Dore and his panelists use humor, sarcasm, and sharp criticism to expose hypocrisy and institutional rot.
• There is frequent, effective switching between analysis and direct quotes from participants and Congressional testimony, punctuated by off-the-cuff banter.

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Conclusion

This episode is a scathing exposé of elite impunity and government complicity, driven by Rep. Massie’s relentless pursuit of transparency and Bondi’s glaring inability to respond substantively. The broader discussion threads show how media, establishment figures, and even leftist intellectuals often serve as willing participants in erasing, downplaying, or deflecting the truth—whether it’s Epstein or deeper historical issues.

Key Takeaway:
The real focus is not just on Pam Bondi’s meltdown, but on how the entire system—government agencies, politicians, media, and even critics—actively works to shield power from scrutiny, at the expense of justice for survivors and accountability for predators.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[Jimmy Dore]

Come see me on tour. I'll be in Lansing, Milwaukee, Albuquerque, Houston, Dallas, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas. Go to Jimmy Dore.com for a link for tickets. If you go anywhere else, you're going to pay more.

[Christian Parenti]

Establishment media sucks.

[Kurt]

August light and so good luck. We can't afford why he's fomenting this.

[Jimmy Dore]

Watch and see as his jack golf the medium speeds and jumps the medium and hits them head on. Here. Is Massie gonna completely embarrass the Department of Justice for covering up the redacted names of the PDF files or the alleged co conspirators with Jeffrey Epstein? So we now. He got it redacted. They redacted a sultan's name from the. The Emirates, right? He's a sultan from the. He's an. From the Emirate of Dubai. Okay. And so watch him. Watch. Massey is going to just wreck her. Pam Bondi, as they say, unravels under questioning by Thomas Massie. You want to see this? This is pretty amazing. And all she has left is to try to insult him and. Well, let's watch.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Are you able to track who in your organization made this massive failure and released the victims names? Are you able to track who it was?

[Jimmy Dore]

So they already released all these victim names. The Department of Justice, which they were not supposed to do. But at the same time they are redacting the co conspirators, you know, the guys, everybody's names. They want to know people who are not victims. They're redacting, but they unredacted the victims names and so he's putting the heat on Pam Bondi. Do you know who did this?

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Are you able to track who in your organization made this massive failure and released the victim's names? Are you able to track who it was that obscured Les Wexner's name As a co conspirator in an FBI document, do you have that kind of accountability?

[Pam Bondi]

I believe Wexner's name was listed more than 4,000 times about.

[Jimmy Dore]

I had.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Yeah, I already told you that. This is where he's listed as a.

[Pam Bondi]

Let me finish my answer. Come on, let me finish my answer. We corrected that within 40 minutes. He was already. You're acting like everybody's trying to cover up Wetner's name.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Reclaiming. Reclaiming my time.

[Pam Bondi]

Answer this question.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Reclaiming my time.

[Pam Bondi]

He was. How this works.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Can I have my time?

[Pam Bondi]

He was. He.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Mr. Chairman, the gentle lady can.

[Christian Parenti]

Can give her answer.

[Jimmy Dore]

The time belongs to the gentleman from.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

All right, I'm reclaiming my time. So I'm going to put the language of the bill up on the screen.

[Pam Bondi]

Chairman, may I give another question on that? Here's a political question and I need to give my answer on that.

[Jimmy Dore]

We'll let that, we'll let the Attorney.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

General respond and then the gentleman can.

[Christian Parenti]

Move to the chairman.

[Pam Bondi]

Within 40 minutes. You asked me a question within 40 minutes. Wexner's name was added back then 40.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Minutes of me catching you red handed.

[Pam Bondi]

There was one redaction and we invited you in. This guy has Trump derangement syndrome.

[Christian Parenti]

He needs to.

[Pam Bondi]

You're a failed politician.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Chairman, please restore his time and remind the witness of the.

[Jimmy Dore]

There is no she. She calls him a failed politician. So what is the definition of a successful politician? Does that mean they can all be found in a photo with Jeffrey Epstein?

[Kurt]

That's exactly what it means. That's right. That's exactly what it means.

[Jimmy Dore]

So he, he's going to show. So now Thomas Massey shows Cash Patel lying. Watch this and remind the witness there is no credible information. None.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

If there were, I would bring the.

[Jimmy Dore]

Case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. So there's Cash Patel lying, saying there's no information that showed that Epstein trafficked to anybody else except himself. Ok, so now we know that's not true because the own FBI files list 20 co conspirators, which we all know.

[Kurt]

Why did everybody accept this? Cash's Israeli beard won't let him prosecute is why he.

[Jimmy Dore]

That's right. Here we go.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Is that your position as well?

[Jimmy Dore]

So then he asks Pam Bondi, the Attorney General, is that your position as well that there is no information implicating any other coconspirators?

[Pam Bondi]

My position is any victim who comes forward. Of course, we would love to hear from them. 1-800- call FBI. Did you ask Merrick Garland that the last four years? Did you talk about Epstein?

[Representative Thomas Massie]

I am reclaiming my time. I'm glad you're asking about Merrick Garland's bigger than Watergate when I don't answer questions. This goes over four administrations. You don't have to go back to Biden. Let's go back to Obama. Let's go back to George Bush. This cover up spans decades and you are responsible for this portion of it. I want to know at what point, at what point did the FBI and the DOJ decide that Lex Wessner was not a co conspirator? Because our Epstein files Transparency act requires you. Please put it back on the screen. To release the internal decision about whether to prosecute him or not. And it's not in the files. And it's not in the files for any of these other men. Time of the gentleman has expired. Which may she answer?

[Jimmy Dore]

So when they made the decision that he wasn't a co conspirator, the law states you're supposed to let us know the reasoning and the process you went through to come to that conclusion. And they didn't. They didn't. And so they're breaking the law. And here's her response that. Her response is to call him a Trump derangement syndrome guy, to call him a failed politician. This is, this is how she. She's completely melting down here. This is, this is called. This is a real meltdown. This is not. Wait, the point is you're supposed to remain cool under fire Pam Bondi, even with your dodging questions. He got her to break and now she's broken here. Let's watch.

[Pam Bondi]

He's a hypocrite because he voted against the ban that we were talking about on deep fake AI porn. Only two people voted against it and.

[Jimmy Dore]

You were one hypocrite.

[Kurt]

That's hypocritical on any level. I don't even make the connection.

[Jimmy Dore]

She just. That she just changes the subject. That's it.

[Kurt]

I brought without even knowing about the AI fake porn ban because Israelis own a bunch of the porn, so they're not going to ban porn. It probably was a thing to not make. Like my great rap video I made of Cash Patel. It's probably so you can't make fun of important people. I bet you the real reason for whatever that fake. That's right, Israel approved ban was.

[Jimmy Dore]

That's right. So here's what Thomas Massie had to say after that.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

I provided the evidence today that shows that his statements were false under oath. Kash Patel's statements were false. They are in possession. They were in possession at the time and they're still in possession of evidence that other men participated in the sex trafficking. Attorney General Bondi didn't seem to directly answer that question. What do you make of what she did say? She didn't answer anything. She came here just ready to talk about the Dow Jones and the nasdaq, which seems kind of crazy to me.

[Jimmy Dore]

And so here she is. What's this guy's name? I don't like this guy. Yeah, but he's a Democrat. But watch how she melts down over him. Watch this. This is amazing. They're all just asking questions that should be asked. Finally.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

There are 32 names. One is redacted, 31 are not. So someone looked at it and decided to redact something. And I will tell you that that is clearly intentional to intimidate these survivors and victims. Now, in a interview last week, how.

[Pam Bondi]

Will you tell me that's intentional?

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

In an interview last week, Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche can't go off script, said that any victim that wants to speak with the department has done so hopefully. Well, thanks to the incredibly brave people sitting here behind you, we can actually ask them if that's true. Now, with the survivors and victims who are here, please stand up one more time. Just by show of hands, how many of you or your loved ones actually have met with the Department of Justice and provided testimony and estimate and evidence?

[Jimmy Dore]

Zero.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

None.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

And of those of you who have not met, which is everyone, how many of you have reached out either individually or, or through a lawyer or representative to offer to provide testimony and evidence?

[Jimmy Dore]

Oh, all of them.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

All of them.

[Jimmy Dore]

All of them.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

And of those.

[Jimmy Dore]

And look at her just sitting there. So this is the face of someone in government, at the top of government, the Attorney General, this is the face she makes when she's being proven to be involved in a cover up of the biggest child PDF trafficking ring we've ever uncovered in the world.

[Kurt]

As all the AGs before her, going back to Mueller, going back to all of them. They only get the job because they help cover up a big. That's right, person PDF file scam. All these pieces of shit.

[Jimmy Dore]

So this is the exact opposite of what Donald Trump and J.D. vance promised when they ran for office, that they were going to be the most transparent administration in history. And this is them covering up the very thing that his base cared about the most. This is him. This is her and him covering up the very thing. That's what. And so here's all the victims, they all reached, they said, did you HEAR, oh, we call 1-800-the FBI, we want to hear from you. They did. And they didn't add. They didn't interview one of them.

[Kurt]

And by the way, the files where people did give tips of the FBI, those are the ones. And some people are my friends and they're just being cautious. I understand, but I don't know why you would be at this point. They're like, oh, well, this could be just a crazy person calling into the FBI. Yeah, you know what? I think they exaggerate how many crazy people are calling in because it's a good way to hide all the victims of these Draculas that run your country.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

Of you, all of you who have reached out, how many of you were denied or ignored by the Department of Justice.

[Jimmy Dore]

All of them?

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

All of them. And despite the shameful and despicable efforts by Ms. Bondi and her department to intimidate you, how many of you are still willing to speak to the Department of Justice? All of them. Well, Ms. Bondi, it looks like you have some more witnesses.

[Jimmy Dore]

Gentlemen.

[Kurt]

Expired.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

And I yield back.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

We will go to the good gentleman.

[Kurt]

From North Carolina, Congressman Knott. Thank you.

[Jimmy Dore]

Now. Now watch. She actually. They give her time to respond to what he just did. Him revealing that they're covering this up and they have zero interest in actually talking to any of the victims. He got her. He exposed her. And the only thing she can do is the most schoolgirl high school level thing you can think of. She changes the subject and starts to try to insult him. Yeah, everybody. Everybody there is a piece of garbage. It's called government. But try to stay on topic, Pam.

[Kurt]

That's what that punk from the Atlantic Council, what's his dumb name? Vlad Davidson. When I curb stomped him and they took the thing down, he tried to do schoolyard bullying to me like that. Yeah, but you're not going to take me with that mother. Yo. I would destroy this bitch.

[Jimmy Dore]

So let's watch this.

[Pam Bondi]

Have a moment. Congressman, did you have a moment?

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Thank you.

[Pam Bondi]

Here we go. Here's the photograph. This is why he wanted to repeat everything that had been said previously on Epstein. This is his state. New York. You probably don't even know who this is. Waheed Muhammad from Afghanistan.

[Christian Parenti]

Yes.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

Because I'm no longer a prosecutor.

[Pam Bondi]

Convicted of assault. Wow. He represents New York. Wow. Yet he doesn't care about the illegal aliens convicted of crimes, assault and homicide. No longer.

[Jimmy Dore]

This has nothing to do with this hearing. This is all she can do is. Is deflect, distract and change the subject. This has nothing to do with the hearing. She's talking about illegal immigration. That's it.

[Pam Bondi]

We're a prosecutor. So he doesn't care about his constituents. Here we go.

[Jimmy Dore]

So it's not scoring points with anybody. I haven't seen a meltdown like this in a long time. You're not supposed to melt down like that, Pam. You're supposed to stay cool. But this is. So she brought this with her because she knew this was going to be her response to whatever said, which was a non response. So there is your Trump administration at the top of the government. They're. They're running interference for the largest PDF trafficking ring in the world. And they're doing it right in your face. And. And they Think we're all as, as compromised as cat turd. They all think that we have brain rot like cat turd does. They all think that we're sycophants to Donald Trump instead of being loyal to the Constitution. That that's, you know, so there's a lot of creeps out there, Cat turd being one of them. He's like the leader.

[Kurt]

That's an operative. He's an operative. You know that. It's obvious. I have a question. Did why does Pam Bondi have that photo ready to go?

[Jimmy Dore]

That's right. That's what I said she brought. Because she knew she wasn't going to respond to any of their actual questions or accusations. She was going to. Her only thing, Kurt, is to change the subject, which is what she's doing.

[Kurt]

And she had nothing about Massie.

[Jimmy Dore]

Nothing. She had nothing about. She couldn't defend herself about anything. They didn't interview any of those victims even though they lied and said they did.

[Christian Parenti]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Dore]

And she's got nothing to say about it. Being caught covering up this ring. She got nothing to say about it. So let's change the subject and try to distract you.

[Kurt]

I'm going to just throw this wild speculation out there as a, as the, as a shaman. This guy who's always been a piece of shit and his lame attack, which not as good as Massey's. I bet this has worked out because he's part of the same people that would also go to Epstein island and love Israel and all that. So one thing I noticed is these people like, like since I've been talking to MK Monarch victims who are all fans of Jimmy Dore, the ones I talk to, they'll always tell me about how these things are worked out to do these little play acting things in these stupid, you know, in these hearings and you know, Massey's not in it because they get, they're like, yeah, they have to improv suddenly.

[Jimmy Dore]

All right, well, there you go. And the fact that there's a, there's a sizable chunk of the Donald Trump MAGA base that completely rolled over on their principles and are loyal to Donald Trump instead of being loyal to the MAGA platform or to policies or to the Constitution, show you that what that's called a cult. So just like when people didn't want to believe that Joe Biden was demented and they lied and they repeated lies, that's a cult. Same thing right here. So if you.

[Kurt]

Information.

[Jimmy Dore]

So if you're still going along with Donald Trump and, and Pam Bondi along, you're in. You are a sycophant to power. You have a fetish for Donald Trump. You don't have loyalty to our country. You don't have loyalty to our constitution. You don't have loyalty to the policies that Donald Trump ran on. You have loyalty to a person that's called a cult. That's the opposite of what you're supposed to do. You are the swamp. So now pieces of garbage like Cat Turd are the swamp. And they're cheering on swampness. They're cheering on the biggest cover up of the biggest PDF ring in the world. That's what those people are doing. He always what do you want to do? You want to lose the midterms? I mean, that's the kind of shit.

[Kurt]

People are saying and I want it to burn the fuck down.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yes.

[Kurt]

But I love what candidate says didn't lose it. He was always an operative who tricked anyone that thought he wasn't. He was always part of it. If people talking this shit are in, they're not dumb. They're in on it.

[Jimmy Dore]

Hey, you know here's another great way you can help support the show is you become a premium member. We give you a couple of hours of premium bonus content every week and it's a great way to help support the show. You can do it by going to jimmy door comedy.com Clicking on join Premium it's the most affordable premium program in the business and it's a great way to help put your thumb back in the eye of the bastards. Thanks to everybody who was already a premium member. And if you haven't, you're missing out. We give you lots of bonus content. Thanks for your support. Confronting high credit card debt can feel scary, but the good news is if you owe $10,000 or more in credit card debt, financial relief options are now available. National Debt Relief is currently offering debt relief designed to reduce what you owe and put you on the fast track to becoming debt free. If you qualify for debt relief, you may be able to pay back less than what you owe and save thousands of dollars. Just visit nationaldebtrelief.com Imagine only paying one low monthly program payment you can afford and saving money as you become debt free. National Debt Relief has already helped bring debt relief to over 550,000 US consumers earning thousands of five star reviews and an A rating with the Better Business Bureau. You're stronger than your credit card debt. Let today be the day you start turning things around. Take the first step and Visit National Debt Relief.com to see what debt relief you May qualify for. That's national debt relief dot com. So Thomas Massie is on a rampage and he's calling out the DOJ for covering up perpetrators names. That's what he's doing. So here is Representative Thomas Massie. He reveals that Les Wexner. I don't know if you don't know who Les Wexner is.

[Kurt]

He's a goblin.

[Jimmy Dore]

That he's a goblin. What's the above? Epstein he.

[Kurt]

What's the company's secret? He also. So Amber, Crombie and Fitch. So the other guy in that. In that traffic ring got acquitted.

[Jimmy Dore]

So Les Wexner runs Victoria's Secret. And he appointed the guy who was running Abercromber and Abercrombie and Fitch. I can't talk today. And that guy who he appointed got arrested for being PDF file.

[Kurt]

Well, no, he was trafficking. Male model. I don't know if PDF file is in that. That one.

[Jimmy Dore]

Well, he was.

[Kurt]

It doesn't matter. He's acquitted, so it's fine.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah. Okay. Massey. Massie says the department. So Representative Thomas Massie reveals that Les Wexner, the head of Victoria's Secret, has now been officially named as a co conspirator in the Epstein child trafficking case. Massie says the Department of Justice attorney Todd Blanche was pressured into unredacting Wexner's name. After public pressure, Massie now says Blanche, who's the Deputy Secretary of the Department of Justice or Deputy Attorney general. Is that what they call him? Is covering up the identities of four other major PDF files tied to Epstein's trafficking network.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Let's listen an example of something. Maybe it wasn't intentional on their part. I'd like to hear his take on the redaction of the CEO who's listed as a co conspirator in the 2019 child sex trafficking case.

[Christian Parenti]

So can I ask you because.

[Jimmy Dore]

And I want to ask if this is the same person, Todd Blanche also.

[Christian Parenti]

Said about that tonight that the document.

[Jimmy Dore]

You'Re citing there has victim names in it. Correct to say that's why there are redactions. He said we have just unredacted Les.

[Christian Parenti]

Wexner's name from this document.

[Jimmy Dore]

But his name already appears in the file thousands of other times. And he says the Justice Department is hiding nothing. Is that the retired CEO that you're referencing?

[Representative Thomas Massie]

It is. He unredacted it after I found it. That's a problem. And I'm glad they've admitted they made a mistake by redacting that.

[Jimmy Dore]

So you're saying it was Redacted when you went in there today and after you tweeted that, they unredacted it.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Correct. Now he's got four other names. He needs to un. Redact that. He responds.

[Jimmy Dore]

So what happened was the FBI prepared the file, and then the Department of Justice went and redacted names that the FBI hadn't. And then Massie got a look at it, and he said, hey, why are you redacting Les Wexner's name? Why you and those other four people, you shouldn't be doing that. So then the Department of Justice went in and re. And then unredacted it. So that's what's happened. Okay.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

That there's a list of 20 people and there's four men in there that need to be unredacted. Here's another troubling thing that I found.

[Jimmy Dore]

Can you say who those four men are tonight?

[Representative Thomas Massie]

I don't think they're well known. And so if I did, it wouldn't matter, but I could probably say them on the floor of the house. But I'll give the DOJ a chance.

[Jimmy Dore]

So the reason why he wants to say them on the floor of the house is because you can say anything on the floor of the house and you can't be held liable for it. So you can slander someone, you can make false allegations, you can do anything you want, and you're protected because you can say anything you want on the floor of the house and nothing can happen to you. So I think maybe that's the reason why he wants to make sure he's insulated from, you know, from frivolous lawsuits. Okay.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

To do what they did in these two examples where I've discovered something and now they've responded.

[Jimmy Dore]

Okay. So in response to my post on X today, the Department of Justice unredacted an FBI file that labels two individuals as coconspirators. Unredacted a file that lists several men who might be implicated. Tacitly admitted that Sultan Ahmed bin Sulayyim was the sender of the torture video. So there is a torture video in the files that someone sent to Jeffrey Epstein. And Jeffrey said, thanks for the torture video. Well, now it turns out we know who they redacted his name. It's the Sultan Ahmed bin Salimam. And find out what country he's from. I'm going to guess. And is it from United Arab Emirates? Saudi Arabia? Where's he from? Find out. You got it. You got it, right? I don't think there should be any redactions. I Think every name should be revealed. Why? Because.

[Kurt]

Because you have deranged Trump derangement syndrome, Jimmy. That's my guess.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah, well, I'm on the list and I didn't have anything to do with it.

[Kurt]

Me, too. Hey, I'm just an important, important person, okay? Of course he targets relevant, important people like me.

[Jimmy Dore]

The more resistance you put to having your name out there, the more you look like you're on the bad side of this arrangement. That's all I'm saying.

[Kurt]

No, I brag my name's in it because I didn't do nothing wrong.

[Jimmy Dore]

Me too.

[Kurt]

I'm just important.

[Jimmy Dore]

So here is Todd Blanch. He's the Deputy Attorney General. He says the document you cite has numerous victims names. We have just unredacted Lex Wesner's name from the document. But his name already appears in the files thousands of times. The DOJ is hiding nothing. Well, he got community noted on that. The cited document is an FBI email thread from 2019 discussing 10 potential co conspirators in Epstein's case. And contains no victim names. So they're just redacting perpetrators names.

[Kurt]

What's a victim?

[Jimmy Dore]

So Thomas Massie says this is significant because Cash Patel testified to Congress that FBI had no evidence of other traffickers. This is the FBI's own 2019 document listing Wexner as co conspirator in child trafficking. It wasn't unredacted until tonight. Wow. And here it is again. He says here the Department of Justice acts as if they were justified in redacting the men's names simply because the document contains victims names. Tonight they learned you can redact victims names while still publishing the other names per our law. So he says the document you said there. He says the department is committed to transparent. The document you cite has numerous victims names. We have just unredacted the non victim names. The DOJ unredacted some non victim names. Incited file post Moss Massey's So after Massey said, hey, why are you redacting these perps names? And then they unredacted them. But some remain redacted. Some still remain redacted. Past errors Exposed victims Transparency claim opinion past December 25th deadline. Okay, here's another one. We looked at the document. You know, it's an email address that was redacted. The law requires redactions for personally identifiable information, including if an email address. And you know that the Sultan's name is available unredacted in the files. So there was another community note. The government keeps getting community noted because they're lying constantly to cover up this PDF file ring the cl. The claimed justification is inapplicable per the act. Redacting language on the basis it's personally identifiable information is allowed only for victim info. Moreover, the act doesn't require redactions, it uses May. So Massie says, until tonight, no one knew who sent the torture video to Epstein. I went to the Department of Justice unredacted the email and reverse searched the email to discover it was a sultan. Our law requires victims information to be redacted, not information of men who sent Epstein torture porn.

[Kurt]

Jimmy, I thought Netanyahu did it and I, and I look like a fool now because of what this Todd, Blanche and the rest of them. So first of all, I'd like to apologize to BB Netanyahu. The torture video was not from him as I thought. And I'm sorry, B.B. i'd like to apologize to you and your pig wife and your goofy looking kid for that.

[Jimmy Dore]

So, previously known about Sultan. That guy, he's the dp. He's the Emirate of Dubai. He's an Emirate of Dubai. He visited Epstein's townhouse on September 17, 2024. Same day Bill Gates was logged there. His name appeared in message pads and some redacted emails. His ties were framed as post conviction business social contact. No public allegations of involvement in abuse. What's newly unredacted revealed due to Representative Thomas Massie's direct pressure on the Department of Justice, well over a decade of close ongoing contact with Epstein's after Epstein's 2008 conviction. Emails discussing personal sex experiences, masseuse's business networking, including Mandelson and Barack. So that's Mandelson, the guy who just got sacked in England over this scandal. And Ehud Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel. DNA kits, sacred artifacts and potential intelligence linked investments. Bin Suleiman sent Epstein a torture video email. In a now unredacted email, newly public photo of Epstein and Bin Salman examining cloth resembling the Kiswa that's a sacred Kaaba covering. No hard evidence yet that Bin Salman participated in Epstein's trafficking abuse. But the depth and duration of post conviction contact is far more extensive than previously understood. Massie personally reviewed the files, identified the redacted sender and forced transparency.

[Kurt]

Massie is the enemy of lizards everywhere, isn't he?

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah, so James Lee says. I can't think of any other reason why the Department of Justice redacted Lex Wessner's name. Other than, of course, to protect Israel. Wow, that's James Lee is a fanatical white supremacist, doesn't he?

[Kurt]

Isn't he? His far right nonsense, Jimmy, and his woke far rightness. It's becoming a real problem.

[Jimmy Dore]

What was already known was that Wexner's extensive financial and personal ties to Epstein have been public for years. Since 2019. Reporting in the New York Times, Bloomberg and in civil lawsuits. Epstein had full power of attorney over Wexner's finances for over a decade. Wexner provided Epstein with the Manhattan townhouse, valued at $77 million. You know that Epstein lived in the biggest private house in Manhattan, and it was given to him by lesbian Wexner? Apparently.

[Kurt]

You know why?

[Christian Parenti]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Dore]

Allegations surfaced in Virginia Giuffre's deposition and Maria Farmer's accounts that Epstein used Victoria's Secret connections for recruitment. Wexner's name appeared in flight logs, the Black Book, and prior unreleased docs. But always in the context of association, not criminal conspiracy.

[Kurt]

Yeah, so Epstein, they made it look like he victimized this lonely old man with some gay hijinks in the Netflix documentary. That's how they try to put it out there. But no, Wexner was initiating Epstein into the thing. The Mega Group is above Israel.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah.

[Kurt]

Israel exists because of the Mega Group. So? So because Epstein is the spokesman of the Rothschilds, he's gonna have to go through some weird shit, and that's why he's given the townhouse. Epstein, as we've seen, is not really impressive intellectually on any level. Because he's a puppet. He's not. So that's what why they're protecting Wexner. That guy is a demon.

[Jimmy Dore]

That's right. So what is new? Well, what's new is that Masian Ro Khanna confirmed today that unredacted FBI materials explicitly label Wexner and others as co conspirators in the trafficking operation. This goes beyond prior public knowledge. No official law enforcement document had previously used that terminology for any male associate calling them co conspirators. The fact that the Department of Justice initially redacted Wexner's name, described only as a well known retired CEO, and then unredacted it today after Massie's public pressure further underscores that this level of detail was not previously released. Massie also reiterated there are at least six men's names in the materials that appear incriminating beyond mere association with one tied to a foreign government. None of these specifics were confirmed in prior releases. So while many suspected deeper involvement based on the known ties, the former FBI Co conspirator framing. And the additional names are genuinely new from today's Congressional Review. More lawmakers are reviewing tomorrow so expect potential further disclosures. Wow. Whitney Webb's this is a reminder that Whitney Webb in April 28th of 2020 she said here's your reminder that Leslie Wexner financed the mass grape and trafficking of thousands of American children for over a decade. And right now he is sitting in a 26,000 square foot mansion in New Albany, Ohio thinking that he is above the law. She said that in April of 2020. Whitney Webb always light years ahead of the rest of us.

[Kurt]

I mean she really did put out a lot of great info that is borne out to born out to be the truth, hasn't it?

[Jimmy Dore]

So we got more on Erica Kirk and it turns out that a lot of people think she was brooming replace B with a g a young 15 year old girl. Because that's what it looks like. And I'll show you here. James Lee talked about this a little. We'll talk about it here. These are the alleged text between Erica Kirk and a 15 year old back in 2013. Let me call you. So Erica Kirk was 25 years old and she had a relationship with a 15 year old girl. And these have surfaced now, these text messages and tweets and none of it looks good. It looks like you remember how she what she was doing in Romania. People were accusing her of trafficking in Romania at her orphanage. Well, and that where her orphanage was the center of trafficking in that area.

[Kurt]

Well, the place known for Andrew Tate.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yes. Watch this and hold. Sweetheart, give me a sex wow. Okay. Laughing emoji. Sec sex too, but not from you. Lol. Holy shit. You always make me laugh. Erica responds I don't bat for the other team. So let me show you this. So this is our text messages. This is Erica. She's talking to the 15 year old girl. She says let me call you. Hold on sweetheart, give me a sex wow. Okay. She goes, sec sex too, but not from you. Lol.

[Kurt]

What transparent move that she made to go give me a sex.

[Jimmy Dore]

She goes dude. And then yeah, she goes, I don't bat for the other team just yet.

[Kurt]

That's not trag, Jimmy.

[Jimmy Dore]

That's so that's not very trad of her. Sounds like. Sounds like lesbian brooming. Shalom Shabbat. That's crazy.

[Kurt]

Did she give her a shlemi shloma?

[Jimmy Dore]

So here, there's more to this just yet. Once again, this is between a 25 year old and a 15 year old here's another text exchange. You have the most stunning features. Best compliment ever. Erica writes, your eyes, your lips, your skin, you're absolutely beautiful. Jill responds, crying, emoji, you're making me cry. I mean, if that was your 15 year old daughter, would you want her to be getting these kinds of messages from a 25 year old? I don't know. Jill tweets, why did Erica Franz Faye just send me this? And the meme here is so she. Erica sent this to this girl. This girl then tweets it out and says, why did Erica just send this to me with all these.

[Kurt]

What are those emojis is like the five stages of grief.

[Jimmy Dore]

I don't know. They're all different.

[Kurt]

And who's the girl's name?

[Jimmy Dore]

But the. The girl's name is Jill. Jill Ficon. But who's now of age. So then she says, this Valentine's Day, I'm going to touch your butt. That's what Erica, a 25 year old woman sent to a 15 year old girl.

[Kurt]

Right.

[Jimmy Dore]

Well, she's part of herself. After telling how pretty she is, how what great skin she has, her lips, her eyes. Whoa. Okay, here we keep going emo. This Valentine's Day, I'm going to touch your butt. I don't want to just throw out the term grooming haphazardly, but this just. It doesn't look good. I forgot to tell you, hydrate tonight, no alcohol. And don't eat a lot of salty foods. You don't want to look bloated. Jill responds, thank you. Erica responds, no alcohol. Really? Erica? Age recognition. Twat wa for apparently I haven't had my coffee yet. What the hell, Erica? Well, on that bite note. Damn you, Siri. Come on, Hashtag the struggle. What are you trying to say? Spit it out, you twat waffle. I don't know what that means. I suppose it could be interpreted a number. I don't know. Wasn't. Twat waffle. Wasn't that the name of the kid they were going to replace Charlie Kirk with?

[Kurt]

That's right, Bryland.

[Jimmy Dore]

Twat waffle. I think that's what it is.

[Kurt]

Waffle. And he wasn't very careful.

[Jimmy Dore]

I think Twat waffles and sausages. That's a traditional groomer breakfast. Am I wrong about that?

[Kurt]

Her name's German, is it not?

[Jimmy Dore]

Franz v. That's just Ms. Arizona practicing her talent portion of the pageant. Her talent is duping children into serving themselves up to cannibal vampire elites. I think that's her talent.

[Kurt]

Let's go Arizona is a state that is one of the number one for that type of thing.

[Jimmy Dore]

Just so you know, of different ways from very innocent to not so innocent. But what I will say is that I would probably not be sending these kinds of messages to a minor. So either would I. Either. Yeah, either would I. But I'll just go. There's some more stuff that he didn't get. He didn't touch on. Here's another one. So that's that girl and her friend and they tweet out, Erica Franz dying because you're so pretty.

[Kurt]

That's what they is Erica Kirk Destiny, the shitty streamer.

[Jimmy Dore]

And then, and then Erica Kirk responded, but she deleted all her correspondences with this girl. And so then this girl responds saying, we miss you too.

[Kurt]

So I'm dying because you're so pretty. Now a 15 year old probably doesn't understand why in the hell a grown adult woman is saying these things to her.

[Jimmy Dore]

So. So this is her. This is Erica Franz's post is deleted. She says, Erica Franz, I fell in love with the world in you.

[Kurt]

Ok, she should go to prison for saying that to a 15 year old.

[Jimmy Dore]

No, no, that's what she said. That's what Jill Falcone said to Erica.

[Kurt]

Okay, then Erica has to be put in prison even more now.

[Jimmy Dore]

So that's crazy. So it looks like. But it's in quotes. So maybe Erica did say it.

[Kurt]

No, Erica said that to her.

[Jimmy Dore]

So Erica said.

[Kurt]

That's what that means.

[Jimmy Dore]

She. Erica said, I fell in love with the world in you.

[Kurt]

That's like the kind of poetry you fucking say, get a crush on somebody.

[Jimmy Dore]

You know, usually not a child, but here's another one. I just want to curl up in a ball and cry because of how perfect Erica Frantz is. That's what that girl tweets. Erica responds. She. She deleted it. And then Erica Franz says, you too, love. Oh, so what is what? What? There's another one. Quote Erica France. One day I'm going to wake up, roll over on my side and kiss the love of my life. Good morning.

[Kurt]

Hey. Eric is single now. There's still time.

[Jimmy Dore]

What? What is going on? By the way, this all got discovered by this woman called Nissi Social. N I S S C E e Social on YouTube. So she discovered, as far as I know, she's the one who discovered all this. So here's another one she sent. Did you see this, Kurt? Thank you, Erica Franz, for making my whole week. And I'm guessing this is the thing that Erica had sent her and it said, I Want to be inside your lady garden nome saying, no, Noam Chomsky.

[Kurt]

I'm saying, no.

[Jimmy Dore]

No.

[Kurt]

I'm saying, does Erica have a dick? Is she like the French first lady? What is going on? How would she even get in there? Well, I don't understand what lesbians do, Jimmy. I'm sorry. I don't know what they do.

[Jimmy Dore]

So here's. So here's. How did she get in? So here's the girl. She's with a guy and she tweeted out a picture of her and this guy. It says, miss you goon. So she's saying. She's saying to this guy, miss you goon. And then Erica texted her saying, did Erica just text me no new friends. Oh, my f. G. I can't. So she's saying that after she tweeted this out, Erica Kirk sent her a text saying, no new friends.

[Kurt]

Yeah. If Charlie Sheen sent this to your daughter, there wouldn't even be a question of what this was.

[Jimmy Dore]

Wouldn't even be. Here's another so right. Getting this in the mail from Erica Franz. Erica Frantz sent her chocolates and a note for her birthday. Like something you would send a girlfriend. And that birthday card says, happy sweet 16, beautiful girl. Keep strong in faith and know you're loved. But most of all, never forget that you are perfect and amazing just the way you are. I am so proud of you. Today is the first day of another 365 day journey around the sun. Enjoy the trip. Boo. Love you, E. Come on. Boo. To a 15 year old girl.

[Kurt]

Oh, my goodness. Here's I told you so to some friends of mine. I cannot wait.

[Jimmy Dore]

Jimmy, you have the most stunning features. Your eyes, your lips, your skin. You're absolutely beautiful. So that all just seems bad. That doesn't seem good. And then. And then I guess that the girl didn't bite hard enough and Erica just let her go. And so murder.

[Kurt]

So you know.

[Jimmy Dore]

And so now. And so now, years later, that girl says that she was never trafficked. So good. She was never so. So there's that. So that's good.

[Kurt]

And I think she escaped the clutches. Charlie wasn't that lucky, was he?

[Jimmy Dore]

Somebody. Somebody made this point. People noticed that Erica Kirk has removed the wedding photo with Charlie Kirk from behind his bookshelf. So there's Charlie sitting there. There's their wedding photo. Here she is. No wedding photo. Whoa. Huh. Screenshots. Compare old episodes of the Charlie Kirk show showing the framed wedding photo of Erica and Charlie Kirk with recent footage where Erica hosts and spot and the spot sits empty. This comes amid an ongoing feud with Candace Owens, who questions Erica's circle's actions on the day of the September 10, 2025 shooting at Utah Valley University, alleging warnings went unheeded. Conservatives remain split, with some like Stu Peters echoing suspicions while others like Laura Loomer call. Owens claims depraved. Official records confirm suspect Tyler Robinson acted alone over political differences. So this is what GROK does. Nobody asked you about this. GROK just throws this in. Official records confirm. What official records? First of all, no one asked you about Tyler Robinson. Grok. And what are the official records? You mean like a law that says innocent until proven guilty? You mean like that official record? What are you talking about? Official records confirm that Tyler Robinson acted alone over political. So that's. I just wanted to point that out. I thought that was crazy. But anyway, there's air. So there's. It's. It's. It's Erica Kirk again. Every bad feeling you have about her is confirmed.

[Kurt]

Yeah, I've just was texting my friend I told you so with a long hahahaha. And then I continue it.

[Jimmy Dore]

Every. Every bad feeling you got about her, every time she talks and you feel like you need a shower after listening to her. You were right. She is the gross of the gross. She's a nefarious. And I wouldn't doubt if she's MK monarched.

[Kurt]

Well, no wonder she celebrated with fireworks her husband's murder.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah.

[Kurt]

Is everyone an idiot? Yeah, you are.

[Jimmy Dore]

And how does it. How does a 17 year old beauty queen start running an orphanage in Romania that's been linked to trafficking? Also she lived in China. Also she lived in Puerto Rico. Also she lived in Arizona. Also she lived in. She lived in her. Not Hermosa beach, but Venice Beach.

[Kurt]

Yeah. Scumbag parents work for Raytheon and her cousins are the Ross Steven crime family.

[Jimmy Dore]

And she also had a job in New York City with a real estate. One of the top commercial real estate play. So this, this sounds to me 100% intelligence. Am I wrong?

[Kurt]

Kurt, not only are you right, Jimmy, I was just texting my friend Kerry. Shout out to Kerry. You'll be getting this video as soon as it's up of me going I told you so.

[Pam Bondi]

Gary.

[Kurt]

I told you so. Carrie Smith. I told you. All right, see you at work Monday.

[Jimmy Dore]

Okay.

[Kurt]

He works on my show.

[Jimmy Dore]

Oh, okay. All right.

[Kurt]

I was right. Carrie.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Me.

[Jimmy Dore]

Christian Parenti is an investigative journalist, academic and the author of several books including including Lockdown America, Police and Prisons in the age of Crisis. He's reported from various locations such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Venezuela and China. And his work has been featured in the HBO documentary the Taking of Hajam. Oh, I can't say that name. It happens every time. Currently, he is a professor of economics at John Jay College, Criminal justice in New York City, and the son of Michael Parenti. Please welcome back to the show Christian Parenti.

[Christian Parenti]

Hello, Jimmy. And hello, everyone.

[Jimmy Dore]

So now we did. I'll put a link in the description of this that we did, a tribute to your father, who was just. He's a real leftist, right? And he was a real advocate for the working man, unlike some people. Well, first of all, let me just, you know, Noam Chomsky turns up in the Epstein files, and it turns out that he was cavorting with the same people he claimed to be opposed to publicly. But privately he's hanging out with all these people. Ehud Barack. He's hanging. He's hanging out with Steve Bannon, who he called horrible things, and of course, Jeffrey Epstein. But a lot of people have brought up your father's name in relation to Noam Chomsky and how Noam Chomsky kind of hung your father out to dry because he was the real. Doing the real duty of sticking up for workers and working coalitions and socialism, and Noam Chomsky wasn't. Do you have any comment on that?

[Christian Parenti]

Yeah, I mean, there was conflict between, you know, intellectual differences between my father and Chomsky that went back to the. The questions about the JFK assassination after Oliver Stone's movie comes out in the late 80s, that initiates, even though it's just a Hollywood movie that initiates a national conversation about the assassination. And many left intellectuals weighed in, and you would be surprised at the number who sought to shore up their credibility with the mainstream by pooh, pooh, poohing. The idea that is, you know, supported by enormous amounts of evidence that the Central Intelligence Agency was involved in a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy. And so my father was one of the few Marxist public intellectuals or intellectuals of any sort who went out and put their reputation on the line to say no. The evidence suggests that the CIA had a large role in this conspiracy to kill the president. And that's significant for a number of reasons. For one thing, it tells us if we look at it and study it, it can tell us something about how power works in this society. Peter Dale Scott, professor at UC Berkeley, former Canadian diplomat. He was, you know, in the forefront of this. But the vast majority of leftists pooh pooh this. Alexander Coburn, who in many ways have a lot of respect for. He passed away 10 or 15 years ago, but was, you know, very critical of this. He, he said in the nation doesn't matter how Kennedy died because he was an ardent anti communist and Chomsky the same thing. And the fact of the matter is that Kennedy was changing and he did stuff like had a unilateral test ban treaty, he opened secret, a secret channel with the Soviets. He was opening a secret channel negotiation with Fidel in Cuba. He really, it seemed, wanted to deescalate the Cold War and was assassinated in that. You know, he, he did not give the CIA sufficient support during the Bay of Pigs. Had a conflict in the beginning of his presidency with the CIA over that. Said that he wanted to smash the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the wind. Fired Allen Dulles, who had been in charge of the CIA. He was the only the third director of the CIA. He came in quite in the early 50s, quite early in the agency's history, and basically built the whole thing. And Kennedy fired him. So anyway, that was the beginning of, of differences between Chomsky and my father. And then it also involved the fact that my father supported actually existing socialism. The Soviet Union, Sandinista, Nicaragua, you know, and it's not because he thought these were flawless societies. Not at all. If you read his book Black Shirts in Red, you see, he has very strident critiques of the Soviet Union, but he was very practical about how he saw the possibility of social change. And he realized that this was not like some sort of like buffet menu where you could choose exactly the flavor of socialism you wanted and, and mix and match the qualities that you, that you wanted. You rather, you received history as it, what was with all of its flaws. And, and my father thought it was not realistic to think that the world was going to be better off without these states. And also he realized that places like the Soviet Union were evolving just as the United States evolves. Right. I mean, the Soviet Union had some unbelievably horrible qualities to it. The purges in which is like, you know, killing members of the party who are, you know, loyal to the revolution. But, you know, that's not, that wasn't the entire history. It's also evolving towards something more rational. Same way the United States. If you say the United States, all you need to know about the United States was that, you know, it had slavery. It's like you need to know that the United States was built in large part on slavery. But if you reduce Your understanding of the country to that it's totally inadequate. The country has evolved for better and for worse. I mean, in odd ways. You know, it's not that all evolution is good, but I mean, it's changing and evolving. Right. So my. That.

[Jimmy Dore]

That.

[Christian Parenti]

Those were the kinds of positions my father took. And that was not cool with people like Chomsky, who. Critic. Who had a kind of like, you know, chompsy, called himself an anarcho syndicalist or something like that, and, you know, had a sort of a purist sense of being a leftist and criticized actually existing socialist regimes, you know, for. For their four real faults, but, you know, didn't. Didn't support left forces in the same way here in the heart of the empire, or that's what my father's view.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Of it would have been.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah, that's my. That's also my view and you know, of Chomsky dismissing inquiries into the JFK assassination is a red flag, just like he said. Well, even if it was a conspiracy, who cares what. Who cares who. Over who committed a coup on the United States government? Who cares. Who cares if they're our own intelligence agency was involved? Who cares if another country was involved? Who, who cares if Lyndon Baines Johnson, his vice president, was involved? Who cares about that stuff? That to me was a red flag, meaning that he was. Chomsky was definitely covering up for something. He was. There's. That doesn't make. Because there's no other thing that makes sense unless he was compromised and he was covering up for that. Just the way he dismissed all the legitimate inquiries into 9, 11 or Covid or anything.

[Representative Thomas Massie]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Dore]

Would you agree with that?

[Christian Parenti]

And then he told. Yeah. That. That horrible quote of, you know, people who are unvaccinated, you know, it's up to them to what was like what.

[Jimmy Dore]

They should isolate themselves, supermarkets. They should be isolated from society. And that when asked how would they get food? He said, that's their problem.

[Christian Parenti]

Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Jimmy Dore]

That was. That was Chomsky. Yeah. But I don't know.

[Christian Parenti]

I mean, whether or not. I mean, the whole idea that he was compromised. Maybe. I don't. I don't know. I don't. But, you know, there's plenty of pressure on intellectuals prior to that kind of thing of being compromised, which is that, you know, folks want access. They want to. They. They want to be. To get publishing deals with publishing houses that are going to invest in their books. They want to be respected as a dissident. They want to have it both ways. They want to be seen as a dissident and they want to have favorable reviews in the New York Times because that's how you get to be famous and sell books and have influence. Right? And so you learn early on, if you have any social sense and can read the room, that there are certain ideological lines that you don't cross and that at a certain point you need to suspend your critical thinking. You just realize like that's the third rail if you touch that you are never going to be reviewed in the New York Times, you are never going to be taken on by a large commercial house, you're going to be relegated to small independent publications, etc.

[Jimmy Dore]

Right.

[Christian Parenti]

And my father was acutely aware of that. And he was pugnacious enough and had a deep enough sense of fairness that, and you know, a deep enough commitment to what he saw as the truth and critical inquiry that he wasn't going to curb, trim his sails to, you know, to try and get in the good favor of the gatekeepers.

[Jimmy Dore]

I mean, to the, I mean he.

[Christian Parenti]

Was, my father was, was red baited. Was, was very severely red baited out of academia. He was, you know, a star student at Yale. He was part of a very legendary class of PhDs at Yale. He was doing quite well. And then he became a radical and then a Marxist. I mean first is sort of like anti war or radical, but then a Marxist in the 70s. And he was systematically red baited. Now when I say that, what am I talking about? Like how in three different jobs he had the entire department, the dean, even the president of the university saying we want to hire this guy. And then the board of trustees would come in and say, no, can't hire this guy. That's very rare. We have the entire institution saying we want this person in our faculty. Generally the board of trustees stays out of it. But in three different cases, his candidacies for tenure track jobs were killed by above the president of the university at the board of trustees. And he was also involved in one incident in University of Illinois Champlain Urbana with two other guys who. And one of whom actually was, they were all suffering this red baiting for a number of years. And then one of them, they were both my godfathers, Phil Moranto and Rocco Lombardi. John Lombardi. John Lombardi, who was a chemist and during one job he was applying for some dean said afterwards, said, you know, we got a letter from the president of Champaign Urbana saying this guy Lombardi is a red, you know, don't hire him. And then Lombardi got a lawyer that threatened the next job that Lombardi applied for, which was actually City University of New York, cuny. And his lawyer said, you know, threatened Champlain, Urbana, as president, said, you know, we have a copy of this letter, and we're prepared to sue you if there's any interference in this job. And there wasn't. He got the job because he's a. He's a fantastic chemist. He's sort of one of the best in his field. But, you know, that's an indication that. Oh, you know, Moranto and my father were also having similar problems. Probably letters like that had gone around in their cases as well. But. So that's why when I use the term red baiting, I use term blacklisting. You know, I'm using it like sort of clinically, specifically, not kind of euphemistically.

[Jimmy Dore]

Right. And so just to kind of put a button on it with Chomsky, that, you know, Chomsky enjoyed tenure his whole career at mit and which we all know is infested with the CIA. And so whereas a fellow like Michael Parenti, your father, who was the real deal, was blackballed. And in fact, he felt. He felt betrayed by academia, correct?

[Christian Parenti]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he felt. He felt.

[Jimmy Dore]

Yeah, yeah.

[Christian Parenti]

He was iced out by his discipline, which, you know, he had been much appreciated in his discipline until he crossed a line. And that line was defending actually existing socialism. You know, that it was, you know, descending from abstractions about socialism to actual elections, saying stuff in the mid-80s, like, you know, the Sandinistas, not only in Nicaragua, not only hold democratic elections, they hold elections that are more democratic than the United States because they allow all of this observation, preservation, you know, and foreign funding.

[Jimmy Dore]

I mean.

[Christian Parenti]

I mean, they're much more open than ours are. You know, that was like. That's too much. You know, you got to keep it at the realm of abstraction. You can be quite radical at the realm of abstraction, but, you know, you start really pushing back against the actual policies of the government consistently like that, and it gets much more intense. And also, you know, defending the Soviet Union, I mean, he wasn't without his criticisms of it, but that was just like, you could not do that. And all those. Those kind of frontline, third international revolutions in Mozambique, in Angola, you know, the Cuban Revolution, you know, my father had critiques of them, but he defended their right to pursue their own course of development. He defended the right of those revolutions to exist. And he drew attention instead to the US Empire's efforts to murderously and illegally and dishonestly and through conspiracy, undermine and destroy those revolutions in some of the most horrific ways possible through terrorism against civilians, through terrorism against the social service apparatus and developmental, economic, developmental apparatus of these revolutions, you know, going in, going down and CIA funding the contras in Nicaragua to go out and kill nurses, burn schools, you know, rape, rape and kill American nuns on at one time that's when they went too far and there was finally some pushback from Congress and limits, some limits put on, on funding for the contras in Nicaragua. But you know, that was going on in the 80s. There was a whole front line of hot wars that the US was covertly funding and were utterly murderous.

[Jimmy Dore]

Hey, become a premium member. Go to jimmy door comedy.com sign up. It's the most affordable premium program in the business. All the voices performed today are by the one and only, the inimitable Mike McRae. He can be found at mikemikemcrae.com that's it for this week. You be the best you can be and I'll keep being me. Don't freak out.

[Survivor/Victim Advocate]

Don't.

[Jimmy Dore]

Not freak out. I'm not kidding. Do not, do not. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. Freak out, don't freak out. Do not freak out, freak out, freak out, freak out.