In this episode, we interview the doctor who first identified seasonal affective disorder (back in 1984!) and went on to develop treatments. Even when days are short (but getting longer, little by little) and skies are gray, you don’t have to suffer with a bleak outlook. Find out what you can do to counteract this common but serious problem.

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How You Can Listen:

You could listen through your local public radio station or get the live stream at 7 am EST on Saturday, Feb. 7, 2026, through your computer or smart phone (wunc.org). Here is a link so you can find which stations carry our broadcast. If you can’t listen to the broadcast, you may wish to hear the podcast later. You can subscribe through your favorite podcast provider, download the mp3 using the link at the bottom of the page, or listen to the stream on this post starting on Feb. 9, 2026.

One of the most effective treatments for SAD and the similar but less severe winter blues is bright light therapy. Not all sufferers respond to light therapy alone, however. Dr. Rosenthal describes the additional approaches that improve people’s response. If you can’t listen to the broadcast, you may wish to hear the podcast later. You can subscribe through your favorite podcast provider, download the mp3 using the link at the bottom of the page, or listen to the stream on this post starting on November 13, 2023.

What Is Seasonal Affective Disorder?

By now, many people are aware that some individuals have a hard time with short days and long nights. Their appetites and sleep patterns may change, and they may retreat from social activities because they can’t get energized. They have trouble concentrating and may become irritable.

It’s as if they get depressed every year at the same time, on cue. Psychiatrists estimate that about 5 percent of the population experiences seasonal affective disorder, or SAD. That could be as many as 10 million Americans. At times, physicians may prescribe antidepressants, but usually the treatment that works best for SAD is light. Evidence suggests that the lack of sunlight, especially when someone feels stressed, is a prime trigger for seasonal affective disorder.

Is SAD Linked to Latitude?

The further from the equator you get, the more pronounced are seasonal differences in daylight. Think of a place above the Arctic Circle, for example, like Tromsø, Norway. In the summertime, they celebrate the midnight sun. In the winter, however, people in Tromsø see very little daylight. Unless they are uncommonly resilient, they could be susceptible to SAD.

Light for Seasonal Affective Disorder:

The principal treatment for SAD is light therapy, usually utilizing a light box. This must be a minimum of one foot square and supply at least 10,000 lux. That is the equivalent of being outside on a cloudy day. Generally, the prescription is for 20 to 30 minutes of exposure every morning. People who would rather not use a light box might be able to spend that time outdoors under the dome of the sky. A roof, awning or umbrella would undermine the treatment.

Approximately 30 to 40 percent of people with seasonal affective disorder do not respond completely to light therapy. They need additional help beyond light exposure alone. Exercise has been shown to benefit them, especially if it is conducted outside. Cognitive behavior therapy is also extremely helpful, as is meditation. Lastly, people with SAD may want to pull back from their usual social activities. If they can maintain their social connections, this is very therapeutic in the effort to defeat seasonal affective disorder.

The Autumn Checklist for Defeating Seasonal Affective Disorder:

Those who know that they often experience SAD should get ready before winter. Dr. Rosenthal recommends addressing the following questions:

1. Have I purchased a light box for the winter?
2. Do I have at least one bright, inviting room in my home?
3. Have I made plans for at least one winter vacation in the sun?
4. Should I check in with my doctor since I am entering my season of risk?
5. Have I notified close family members and friends that I may need extra support?
6. Do I have a physical fitness program in place? (It’s easier to keep exercising than to start.)
7. Could I reframe my attitude and look at winter as a challenge instead of an affront?
8. How can I find beauty in the colorful season of autumn, here and now?

Although Dr. Rosenthal doesn’t mention it, perhaps noticing signs of spring could instill hope. Our yard in North Carolina has both snowdrops and hellebores blooming in January, reminding us that spring blossoms will start up before too much longer.

This Week’s Guest:

Norman E. Rosenthal, MD is a psychiatrist and scientist who first described SAD in 1984 and pioneered light therapy as a treatment. Dr. Rosenthal is currently Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at Georgetown University School of Medicine. Dr. Rosenthal is the author of several books, his most recent being Defeating SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder): A Guide to Health and Happiness Through All Seasons

His website is https://www.normanrosenthal.com/about/

Norman E. Rosenthal, MD, is an expert on seasonal affective disorder

Dr. Norman E. Rosenthal, author of Defeating SAD

Listen to the Podcast:

The podcast of this program will be available Monday, November 13, 2023, after broadcast on Nov. 11. You can stream the show from this site and download the podcast for free.

Download the mp3, or listen to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Transcript of Show 1363:

A transcript of this show was created using automated speech-to-text software (AI-powered transcription), then carefully reviewed and edited for clarity. While we’ve done our best to ensure both readability and accuracy, please keep in mind that some mistakes may remain. If you have any questions regarding the content of this show, we encourage you to review the original audio recording. This transcript is copyrighted material, all rights reserved. No part of this transcript may be reproduced, distributed, or transmitted in any form without prior written permission.

Joe

00:00-00:01

I’m Joe Graedon.

Terry

00:01-00:05

And I’m Terry Graedon. Welcome to this podcast of The People’s Pharmacy.

Joe

00:06-00:26

You can find previous podcasts and more information on a range of health topics at peoplespharmacy.com. When the days get short and the nights get long, some people have a hard time getting out of bed. Could they be suffering from SAD? This is The People’s Pharmacy with Terry and Joe Graedon.

Terry

00:34-00:43

Seasonal Affective Disorder, or SAD, may affect as many as 10 million Americans. Is there a difference between SAD and ordinary dep...