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- [00:03]
A
Hello and welcome back to the Friday Feels episode of the U UP podcast. I'm Jordana Abraham.
- [00:08]
B
And I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here with you, Jordana. But it is especially good to be here with our very special guest. He is celebrity hairstylist for the the likes of Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, and Chrissy Teigen.
- [00:23]
C
Chrissy Teigen. I've never done Chrissy Teigen.
- [00:25]
B
Oh, no. Wow. Okay, we're lied to.
- [00:29]
C
Take it. Let's keep it.
- [00:30]
B
Take it, take it.
- [00:31]
A
The episode is cancele.
- [00:32]
B
That ended. Hang up the phone. We're done. Well, in more. What he does have is a new book that is out right now called your roots don't define you. Chris Appleton, thank you for coming on the UF podcast. How are you? What's going on?
- [00:47]
C
I'm great. Glad to be here. I've been watching you guys from afar, so I'm, I'm happy to be involved in the conversation.
- [00:53]
B
We're happy to have you. What's going on today? What's. We actually had a debate before we started.
- [00:59]
A
Yes.
- [01:00]
B
We have a bet going back and forth. We want to know what you would charge as a celebrity hair stylist for a haircut today to someone like, like.
- [01:12]
C
A celebrity or just regular like a.
- [01:13]
B
Hair salon thing to us peasants.
- [01:15]
A
So, yeah, to, to Jared.
- [01:17]
B
To Jared. Me and Jordan, we come into your place, we go, chris, I want a haircut for man. A man's haircut, woman's haircut.
- [01:27]
A
No blowout.
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B
No blowout. Are you charging?
- [01:29]
C
How much you got?
- [01:33]
A
It's a price.
- [01:34]
B
I got my Venmo. I got my. I got my credit card. So you're charging. We want to know what is it?
- [01:39]
A
Yes.
- [01:39]
C
What's the rate for you guys? I wouldn't charge anything.
- [01:44]
A
We got to go to la.
- [01:45]
B
Yeah. Now I got to buy the book.
- [01:47]
A
For someone else for a random.
- [01:49]
B
Random walks.
- [01:51]
C
Everyone wants to know how much. I will say it's actually not so much. Like, it's, it's not. You earn so much to do like a hairstyle or a haircut, but it's more kind of like, you know, obviously when you get involved with brands and stuff, that's kind of being an entrepreneur. That's where you kind of evolve, I think. And, you know.
- [02:08]
A
Right.
- [02:08]
C
That's something I'm passionate about. Just keeping, keeping it moving and keeping anxious. But, yeah, everyone's always fascinated by how much you charge. I've charged everything from, you know, hundred dollars back in the day to skip money.
- [02:22]
B
Give us the Top. Now he's embarrassed. Tell us the most you've ever charged. How about that?
- [02:26]
C
Let me put the most.
- [02:27]
B
The most you've ever charged for a haircut.
- [02:31]
A
If you have to ask. You can't afford it, right?
- [02:33]
B
Obviously we can't afford it.
- [02:35]
C
Oh, God, Chris, say it.
- [02:37]
B
Come on. We get personal here, like 100k.
- [02:40]
C
100K? Yeah, but it was. That was to travel and stuff. That was the whole situation. So we all travel around the world. It was like. It was. And that sort of thing is a one off. But don't forget that's. Then you get taxed 50%. Then your agent takes something. It gets dwindled down to.
- [02:55]
B
That's true for Haircut is Wild. You know, that's. So you were basically brought on the road with someone and they were like, we'll give you 100k.
- [03:04]
C
Listen, I gave you the answer to the number. We don't need to know.
- [03:07]
B
Okay? He's like, I'm not asking.
- [03:09]
A
He's like, I thought this was a dating show, right? This was a dating show.
- [03:14]
B
Well, we. I said 1:25 for a man.
- [03:16]
A
I said $125. That's crazy.
- [03:20]
C
Okay?
- [03:20]
A
For. For dollars.
- [03:23]
C
Look, I said to you, I do it for free. It's not about the money. It's not about the money. That's a no in flip to that. I've also had, you know, you also do a lot of stuff for free. So it's like, you know, editorial. They don't cover a Vogue. It's great, but it's not how you get paid the big bucks. You do it for doing the COVID of Vogue. So honestly, it's kind of. It balances out.
- [03:42]
B
As a comedian, I understand the idea of, like, all shows are not the same. All gigs are not the same. Some are for practice, some are for, you know, clout, and some are for money. Some are money play. You know, I. I get that completely. So. All right, well, you have a new book out and it's called your roots don't define you. What made you write a book? What's. What's kind of like the. What's the. What's the premise here? What, you know, what, what makes Chris Appleton say I got to. People have to hear these words.
- [04:09]
C
I mean, I think for me, it was probably the point in my life where I felt like people knew so much about me. So, like, I work with celebrities, life looks good. My social media looks relatively sort of polished. And I think I just wanted to scratch away that kind of image and show something that's a little bit more real, a little bit more authentic, and probably be more of who I am. My journey of how I've worked with, like, Mrs. Jones, that would come in the salon every week for a blowout, but also, you know, Jennifer Lopez or Kim Kardashian. I've also worked with cancer patients who lost their hair or models on Runway. I've worked with every type of. Of, you know, woman. And universally, I noticed this pattern where I think looking good, feeling good is great, but it's really a lot of internal parts that need fixing. And, like, so many people have limitations on how they look, how they're perceived, and a lot of them are from, like, something that someone once said to them years ago, like, you're the shy one, or, you know, you're the quiet one, or you're the chunky one. We carry these things around with us our whole lives, and it puts so many limitations. And a lot of people say to me, like, well, I want to look like Jayla, but I don't look like Jello. And I was like, it's not about that. It's like, okay, you don't look like Jello, but this is how. And you break it down into how people can look and feel their best. And I think I just wanted to move it away from just being celebrity focused. And it's like, all right, but this is how you can have a piece of that, too. This is how you can look and feel your best. So I think after, like, you know, 30 years of knowledge, I just wanted to put it into something like a handbook that people could have a part of and be in the conversation.
- [05:43]
B
I mean, that's great. I. I do understand the idea. You go to, like, a stylist, especially a quote unquote, celebrity sty stylists that they go, this guy's gonna change my life. Like, this guy is gonna give me the haircut. Like, we even talked before you came on. We were like, we wanted to hear, you know, what we need, right? What we need, right? And we were gonna. We were literally saying that, like, when you go to a stylist or you go to someone who's about to cut your hair and you say, what do you think? They always go, what do you.
- [06:11]
A
What do you want?
- [06:11]
B
They don't want to put words on it because they almost don't want to give it seems like they don't want to get blamed for it. But also, like, you can't change someone's life. Like, what do you. You know, that's a lot of responsibility.
- [06:21]
A
Even if you're not a celebrity hairstylist. I feel like people probably go to their hairstylists and are like, they're showing a picture of a celebrity, and they're saying, I want that, even if it doesn't make sense for them.
- [06:32]
C
Right. And you're like, that's the sign. I mean, if someone's saying to you, I used to. When I worked in the salon years back, I remember people would go up to people. Because when you're in a sal. When you listen to. There's this whole concept in a chapter in the book, and that's what the reader will find, is that a lot of people don't look in the mirror and truly see themselves. So you look in the mirror maybe 10 or 15 times a day, but you just glance, and you just see that face looking back at you. Brushing your teeth, whatever. Yeah.
- [06:56]
B
And we move our bodies in ways to make it kinder. Like, I've never seen what I look like with my shirt off for real.
- [07:02]
C
Oh, really? You're always positioned.
- [07:04]
B
What I'll let myself see. Like, I'm like, I'm not gonna, like, do that before I leave the house to myself. Like, I'm gonna judge myself up, you know?
- [07:14]
C
Yeah, totally. Best. But a lot of people. The point is, a lot of people don't actually stop and really look and say, like, is this who I am? Like, is this. Am I truly, like, aligned with how I look and how I feel on the inside. Is. This is where I wanted to be in my life? Because when you get alignment on the inside with, like, your external image, that's when, like, the superpower really comes into place. And I think I wanted to be able to create something that people can find that. Because, like, I say, a lot of people, they have hairstyles just because, like, when they're a kid, someone told them that's what they have. Like, you suit short hair, and they carry that their whole lives. Or, you know, you can't be a blonde. Your sister's a blonde. And I'd have clients in the salon, and they'd sit in a chair, and the chair is, like, such a vulnerable place because it's the one time you actually stop and look in the mirror. And most people start with this, like, negative voice. I call it the hater. And they'll look in the mirror, and they're like, God, is this lighting bad because I'm looking old? Or, like, just eyes smaller than the other? Like, you start ripping yourself apart. So for me, being in that situation, I'D always want to kind of break it down. And I'd see people come over to people and go, okay, what are we doing today? Same as usual. And they'd be like, oh, yeah. So the time in the chair is actually that one time that you are open to sort of opening up to change, and you want someone to actually see you and see, like, the possibilities.
- [08:30]
B
Chris, you bring up something. This is a good segue into the topic of this show, which is dating relationships. You have two children with a woman.
- [08:38]
C
Yeah.
- [08:39]
B
You identify as gay now.
- [08:40]
C
Yeah.
- [08:41]
B
You know, that is literally what I would assume you had to do. Maybe I'm wrong, but, like, I. This is how I've seen myself have been told I am, and now I have to make this massive change to, like, be the real me, you know? Like, there are people out there listening right now that might be in relationships that they're not entirely happy with. They might be in situations that they're not entirely sure of. They might be in just, you know, not sure that the life they're kind of the. The road they're walking is not representative of what they think they should be walking or where they want to go 100%. How. From your exp. From your experience, having made a life change like that, how did you do that? And, you know, what was that process and how hard was that? I'm sure very difficult.
- [09:23]
C
Well, I think, like, that's a great example. I kind of lived my life the way I thought I should, the way society told me to, or the way people told me to live my life. And I thought I had it all tight. I thought I was good. I mean, I had two kids. I was great. But it wasn't until I truly stopped, because I made a whole career out of making people stop and look in the mirror and really see themselves. And that's really powerful. And I felt like that was my superpower. But the thing I realized is I never actually stopped and looked at myself. Like, I never actually stopped and looked at myself in the mirror and saw who I was, and the decisions I made was that fully for me or because I was trying to do what was normal. And I think when I was a kid, I was pretty bullied at school because at the age of 13, I had a job in a hair salon. So, guys, back then, if you did hair, like, that would meant you were gay. And it was weird that I was 13. At her job, kids found that weird. So it was just like, oh, you're gay, and you weren't saying it in a Nice way, saying in a negative way. So I was kind of like, well, I'm not that. And it was before I'd even kind of got into sexuality. I hadn't even thought much about it, but I was like, well, I definitely don't want to be that. So I think I kind of just got very focused on, you know, proving everyone that I wasn't so focused that I never even gave myself a chance to evolve that conversation. And it wasn't until. I mean, look, life is always gonna come. You're always gonna come back to yourself. If you don't wanna look in the mirror one day something will happen and you have to see yourself. And that was kind of that moment. I was like 27 and it was really hard. Cause then it also created a life which I was really happy in. I loved it. I mean, mine and Kate's relationship broke down, but we're still best friends to this day. You know, it broke down, but there was still a lot of love. But, you know, we were breaking up and then going into new experiences. I didn't really understand it because I was like, wait, I've never felt this my whole life. And now I've kind of put my foot into it. I keep, like, going back to it, you know, I couldn't kind of, like, just get back to being normal and being straight. All of a sudden I was like, I don't know. I felt. It felt at the time like a disease. It felt like, how can I get rid of this? Like, if I could have cut it out of me, I would have. But that's the, you know, that's the journey. And it's about, I think, really kind of going back. And I had to really go back to, like, how did it start? How did I even get to this place of, like, being so unaware of my sexuality or even being able to explore it? And it was all fear based. It was all fear based. It was all shame based. And a lot of people carry that their whole lives. So I hope what people will find in this book is ways to help them really see themselves. And it doesn't have to mean sexuality, but it can mean financial decisions you make. It can be relationships or marriages. It could be your friend groups or even the job you choose, or just simply the haircut you've always had. And you're like, why have I always had this hair? Why don't. Why don't I. Why do I have brown bob? Like, I've always wanted long blonde hair. Like, it changes everything. It's not just an internal, external sort of way you look. It's really internal. That's why you have to do a lot of the work. So it's like a fun kind of playbook into how to get to that.
- [12:22]
A
So when someone sits down, like, in the chair with you, like, what is your method for getting them to see. See themselves? What are you? What are you? What should my hairstylist asking me?
- [12:32]
C
First of all, come, come behind you. And I put my hand. It's a process. I mean, I remember people in the.
- [12:38]
B
Feeling out of you.
- [12:40]
C
If your hairdresser says to you, what are we doing today? Same as usual. You should get up and leave. Because that's ritually just. I have a chapter in the book, and it's called. It's all about saying the word fine. Like, I hate the word fine. It's such a facade. It's not real. It's just like this excuse. Like, you probably feel terrible, but you say, I'm fine. Or, you know, someone does bad, and you're like, oh, it's fine. Don't worry about it. It's just this kind of like, don't look at me. Don't deal with it. So I used to always try and sit down, and I always sit down with my clients, whoever it is, and I want to know about them. I want to know what, like, their aspirations are. Like, okay, this is where you're at. But what have you always dreamt about? Like, who's your hair icon? Who's your idol? And people would say to me all the time, like, oh, you know this person. But I know I can't do that. I know I can't go blonde. And I'd be like, why not? And they'll be like, well, because I just know I can't. And I'm like, but who put that limitation on you? Like. Like, for you, you've got. I could say, like, you read long hair. No, no. Like, I don't not have got long hair. It doesn't suit me. Like, have you ever tried it? You know? Well, no. Like, anyone's hair. You're like, well, Johnny Depp, I like his hair. And it's like kind of a conversation of breaking down. Like, why people have these beliefs, and a lot of the time they don't even know.
- [13:48]
B
I guess I'd be worried that my hair would get too poofy before it would actually come down to shoulder length.
- [13:54]
A
It would.
- [13:55]
C
But have you ever tried it?
- [13:56]
B
But, yeah, but then I'd be the guy with poofy hair. I don't know if I could work through that if I have this.
- [14:00]
C
But then there's things called like keratin treatments that like chill it out and give you that nice kind of flow wave.
- [14:06]
B
Right. I guess my answer would be that I don't have the community around me to support the keratin texture.
- [14:15]
C
You have the community now.
- [14:17]
B
Now I have it.
- [14:18]
A
Who's your hair idol?
- [14:19]
B
Hair idol? Oh my God, there's a lot I. Who would I go? Who does this?
- [14:26]
A
Doing it right.
- [14:27]
B
Well, Chris is doing a great job with his hair right now. He's got a great flow.
- [14:31]
A
He, I was going to say you must.
- [14:33]
B
That's the flow. Yeah. I could never go with that.
- [14:35]
A
Effortless, like Disney Prince.
- [14:36]
C
You're doing it now. I could. Why could you never do that?
- [14:39]
B
Well, you know, I, I, I remember when I was 13, I tried to go for everyone my age, around my age and Chris, you're around my age too. Everyone was doing the Jonathan Taylor Thomas the butt.
- [14:49]
C
You're 30, you're 32.
- [14:51]
B
I'm 40.
- [14:53]
C
Oh, the dope was in the same grade. I'm 32.
- [14:57]
B
You're 30. No, it said you were 42 in front of us.
- [15:01]
A
Chrissy T. I was like, wow, he looks great.
- [15:03]
B
I was, Yeah, I was going to say, I was like, man, we look great. I guess I look like shit.
- [15:07]
C
Yeah, I know. I am poito. I am. You are.
- [15:11]
B
Oh, God. Oh my God. I freaked out just now. V, our producer almost jumped out the window.
- [15:18]
A
She was just fired and then rehired. I can't believe what you just did.
- [15:22]
B
Do you remember the Jonathan Taylor Thomas look? The Zachary Ty Bryan butt cut? That was the, the part down the middle. That was the, the one everyone looked for in my. That was the vibe. And now it's coming back and I can't do that as a 40 year old man that I'm not going to walk around with a, you know, middle part and star stickers on my face like I'm a Gen Z dude. I can't. I got to look my age appropriate.
- [15:43]
C
I think you could do the flow. I think it'd be good if you can keep it tight.
- [15:46]
B
Really still.
- [15:47]
C
You could have a little length on the top you could carry.
- [15:49]
B
How long do I got to grow this thing out? What do I got to do?
- [15:52]
C
You just need a nice haircut. Grow it out. Be an easy process.
- [15:58]
A
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- [17:52]
C
Thy ticket lady Jennifer of Coolidge. Well, many thanks good sir.
- [17:57]
B
Here is my Discover card.
- [18:00]
A
They accept Discover at Renaissance Fairs?
- [18:03]
C
Yeah, they do here.
- [18:04]
B
Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop.
- [18:07]
C
Getth with the times.
- [18:09]
B
With the times. You're playing the loot.
- [18:13]
C
Yeah, and it sounds pretty good, right?
- [18:15]
A
Discover is accepted at 99 of places.
- [18:17]
B
That take credit cards nationwide based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.
- [18:23]
A
Aren't There people who come to you and you're like, that actually wouldn't look good on you. That looks good on that person. But it wouldn't.
- [18:28]
C
Oh, yeah, totally.
- [18:29]
B
How would you encourage people whose friends are single that come to them and, like, ask them for advice? I mean, this is a great exercise. Like, you have to look someone in the eye and go, no, not for you. Not going to happen. How do you do that as a friend?
- [18:41]
C
Oh, I think it's just an honest conversation. I think it's just like, okay, well, that, that. Okay, so that. That length Bob, won't necessarily suit you because you've got a round face shape. But, you know, you could go like here as a lob, and that would be good. And you need a few more layers. It's just about, like, adjusting it so it suits your face. It's all about face shape, eye color. But also personalities are. If you have, like, an extreme personality, you don't necessarily need to follow, like, what's right for your eye color and your skin tone because you kind of can make the trend your own. But, you know, so I call it like, there's like a whisper client, a talk client, and a scream. Whisper is someone that, like, just, you know, has a trim every six weeks, doesn't want to follow up with trends. You've got your talk client, which is more like a Jennifer Anderson. You know, she stays up with the trends, but it's not crazy extreme. She gets a bit lighter, a bit darker. But then you got your scream client, which is someone. I don't like Lady Gaga. It's not necessarily about her eye color or skin tone. She will make a statement with that look. So you don't always have to follow the rules, but you need to know them so you can break them. And that's what the book gives you, is also like a breakdown of, like, who are you? Like, what is your personality type? What is your eye color? What is your skin tone? And this is the right thing that works for you. But you can also adapt that depending on personality type, because really, it's just all about expressing yourself and how you want to portray yourself to the world, you know?
- [19:58]
A
Right. So when it comes to.
- [20:01]
C
Right.
- [20:01]
A
No, no, I know. I think that's. No, I think that I. I would call myself the whisper person, who's just, like, make it healthy so that, like, I don't have to think about it. But I. It's. That's not really optimizing.
- [20:15]
B
But I do think it's good advice for, like, people advising friends. I Think that's, like, one of those things? Like, how much help do you want? Right? Like, there's someone that's, like, telling you, I don't want to go date. And it's like, like, okay, well, what are you gonna. You're not gonna force them on 300 dates. Like, totally. You're gonna. They're gonna get to one date. You gotta get them to. To the doorstep of a date. You don't. You know that that's not someone you're gonna get, you know, downloading the app and swiping all day long.
- [20:38]
C
So many people. Like, the first time happened. Every time I meet someone, I was, oh, my God, don't look. Don't look at my hair. And I'm like, oh, I'm not. Like, it's not, you know, it's like, with the dating things. Oh, my God, don't judge me on my dating. I'm actually not.
- [20:50]
B
Like, no one gives a.
- [20:51]
C
Not a word, right? Yeah, but if someone asked about it, then yeah, sure.
- [20:55]
B
So I do want to ask about your personal life. So you were married. You had two kids. I mean, you have older kids. Like, they're. They're like. You got married pretty young.
- [21:02]
C
Oh, I've only been married once. So. Me and. Me and Kate were together when I was 19. I had kids when I was 19.
- [21:07]
B
Really? So kids at 19? I mean, were you freaking out? I mean, like, I'm freaking out at 40. If I ever, like, have a scare.
- [21:15]
C
I loved it. I mean, I met Kate, who's the mother of my kids, and we just had a great connection, and we have, like, an unconditional love. I mean, it's been however many. I mean, what has it been, 23, nearly 24 years. And it's still. We still speak every day. There's still a level of respect that's always gonna be there. We spent Christmas together, New Year's Eve together with the kids.
- [21:39]
A
Well, what was it like for her? I think when you did, you did. You was part of the breakup because of, you know, you coming to terms with your sexuality.
- [21:48]
C
We had already sort of started to break up. The relationship broke down.
- [21:50]
A
Okay.
- [21:51]
C
And that then coincided. My job was kind of changing. I was traveling a lot, and, you know, like, I was single, so I was kind of, like, well, dating. And I remember one night, we were at an event, and there was some gay guys there, but this was girls there. I remember, like, I was, you know, talking to this girl at the time, and in the night, this guy tried to kiss me. And I remember thinking, oh, you know, I'm. That was just drunk. I was like, whatever. It's fine. But then we became friends, and then we were speaking. He didn't even live in the same country, but we spoke every day. It was the first time I kind of had, like, a gay friend, which felt, like, normalized, you know, that we would just have a conversation and there was nothing. It wasn't sexual. It was just a conversation. And it was like, okay, I like this person. And I think once I kind of put in my foot in the door of kind of, like, exploring it is when I was like, well, maybe there's something more here. Like, I really like this person. But then I quickly got. I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. What am I doing? Like, I. I just. I think I'm just. You know, when you go for a breakup and you're kind of like, you know, we call it the revenge haircut. You do things you don't normally do. And I was like, oh, I think I'm just, you know, experimenting. But I think once I put my foot in the door of explor. Exploration in that area, I was like, it kept coming back. And I was like, wait, where? Why? Everyone was like, well, you must have always known. I was like, I didn't. I wasn't hooking up with guys. I wasn't watching gay porn. I wasn't thinking. You know, I genuinely was so happy in my relationship until I was out of it. And I kind of, you know, I guess I was searching for the next thing, but once I. And then I had to realize. And it took a long time to realize. It was a moment back when I was, like, you know, 11 or 12, where I was so bullied and so, like, it was so bad to be gay. Then I was like, before I'd even thought about it, I was like, well, I definitely don't want to be that. And I'm not going to be that. I'm going to be, you know, straight, and I'm normal. I'm normal. You know, everyone wants to be normal. Your brain's very powerful when you put your mind to something. You know, I just completely blocked it out. But then you have to break that down of, like, when that happened, how it happened. And again, there's lots of moments. Mine was about sexuality, but there's lots of moments in the book. People end up in marriages they don't want to be in. They end up in, you know, jobs they don't like, financial decisions, alcohol, drugs. And it usually stems from something in the past so it kind of goes back in that you sound like you.
- [24:10]
B
Were a pretty private person. Like you were living kind of this, like, very normal life with two kids and you have a girlfriend and you guys share the kids and you're having this happy life, and then that breaks up and then you start discovering your sexuality. But then you get married on a TV show. Like, you know, when you do that, you know, how difficult does the relationship become? Like, because of that, like, people are checking in on you. Like, the audience, you know, everyone just is, like, aware.
- [24:35]
C
You.
- [24:36]
B
You go from this private. What's that like? What was the hard part there?
- [24:41]
C
I mean, I think it was pretty surreal. And I think when something personal plays out publicly, people are always gonna add their own stories to it. But I think what I've learned is that the narrative that actually matters is the one that you live and not what people project. And I think maybe being more in the public eye is open to conversation. And I understand that, but I've never really had a problem with social media. And people say to me, how do you deal with different people commenting or having opinions on your life or the work you do or the clients you work with? And I don't know. I think it's healthy to an extent. I mean, you'll always see some extreme stuff where you're like, wow, that person must be really unhappy. I was on social Media Dividend. I saw someone write something up on a celebrity's page, and they were like, I hope you get cancer. And I was like, oh, my God, this is really sad that we live in the world where people want it. But I usually just kind of think, well, that person's pretty sad. But otherwise, I think a healthy conversation, I think is. I think it's okay. I think you know what you're doing, you sign yourself up to, and that's kind of just the world we live in now.
- [25:42]
B
When that relationship ended. Now you're out there dating again. How do you date? Like.
- [25:47]
A
Yeah, how do you date?
- [25:48]
C
Well, I think that dating is a very interesting thing. I think it's a. It's a fun place to be. I think you basically. I think I changed a lot of. With all my relationships I've been in and I've learn something. So I've always tried to learn from it and evolve and move on and not kind of go back to that. But, you know, you learned things are really important to you, like honesty, communication, you know.
- [26:15]
B
Well, how do you date, though? Like, how. How do you.
- [26:17]
A
How do you meet people?
- [26:18]
C
Oh, probably most People. I have a lot of DMS on Instagram, number one. But, like, Raya. Yeah.
- [26:27]
B
Are you dating anyone now?
- [26:30]
C
I'm just a little bit more selective. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm. Yeah, I'm single. I've been single for, like, two years. Free choice.
- [26:39]
B
Sounds like you're hooking up with someone, but you can't really say it's not more than that. So you kind of, like.
- [26:44]
A
Jared plays this game all the time.
- [26:45]
C
Many, many times before, I think I. I've had my fun, but I've changed the way I date now. I think. I think in writing the book, it was really healing because I realized some of the patterns that I had, which were, like, thinking I could help fix people. I do that as a job. It's really great as a job. You help people look and feel their best. But I kind of realized that in past situations, past relationships, even past friendships, I would overextend myself into thinking love is enough and that people can, you know, want to be their best version of themselves, and I can help them do that. It's not actually my job to help anyone. You know, you're only really responsible for yourself. So I think once you kind of figure out that I kind of. Instead of maybe going into something as fast, I'm now more sort of. I guess I just take my time and I know who I am now. I know I'm aligned. And I think, like I say, for a long time, I didn't really see myself. I didn't really kind of put myself first. And I think once you do, and you do your boundaries and, you know what's important to you, you're more selective, you know, because it's a small pool of people that, you know, being in a relationship is. Is tough. It's. It takes a lot, you know, give and take.
- [27:57]
B
I gotta say, at 40. I'm sorry to interrupt, but, like, at 42, you know, I'm 40, and you're. You're speaking a lot of my language as far as, like, you know, I think at 40 especially, you start to. Your dating intentions are way more careful. Is that interpreting you correctly? Like, you are two steps forward, five steps backwards. To, like, before you trust someone or bring someone into your life. Is that kind of where you're at?
- [28:25]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm just not really interested now in intensity. I'm more interested in stability. I think that's really important to me. I think passion is great, but I think peace is essential. So I think I've just Changed, like, the way I go about it and the things that are in my life because I have a great life. I have two beautiful kids. I'm so happy.
- [28:44]
B
That means you get in front of things you have. There's. It feels like when you say that piece is important, that is you saying, here's the deal before we move any forward. Is that kind of true?
- [28:57]
C
I just. I just think I have a great life. I'm really grateful to be where I'm at. I'm grateful for my kids. I grateful I get to share it. So anyone that's going to come into my life, like, if it's not going to add to it, then I don't need it. You know, I can have my fun, but I don't necessarily need to know, get into a relationship with it, you know, I don't know. I think I'm just. I'm more selective. But I think in, like, honestly, like, I talk about the book, I keep going back to it, but that they're the things that, when you realize, like, you kind of come, but allergic to the crap you come, allergic to, like, the things that are not good for you. It's like an alcoholic. It's like once you've done the 12 steps, you know, you might get tempted to have a drink. You'll get tempted to be attracted to the things you used to be attracted to. But you're like, I know one drink or leading to, I'm just not going to go there. You know what I mean? So you still get attracted to those things and, oh, they're cute. We could just. But then I'm like, yeah, but actually, are we aligned? Are we in this? You know, I look at it differently. Whereas before, I just roll with it, right?
- [29:56]
B
Because that's like, you know, some would call that jaded. Someone call that experience.
- [29:59]
C
Well, I mean, it's like when you buy a house, you buy a house, your first house, when you're young, you're.
- [30:03]
B
Like, I love this.
- [30:03]
C
I'm gonna live here forever. It's amazing. It's a house. But then you realize, you're like, wow, this house gets no light and it's always dark. So that you get a little more selective next time you get a house. You're like, I want a house, but I want a house with big windows and I want to see light. Or, you know, and it's just kind of. You refine your search every time because you learn. If you're not learning, what are you doing? Like, I don't want to make the statement Twice. I try and learn from it. I'm kind of. I like to know why we do the things we do. I kind of. I find it really fascinating, especially in dating, because I always did it in my profession. I was great at it. But in my personal life, because I kind of wasn't aligned with myself. I didn't. So once I found that alignment was really powerful, you know, because you. You just, like I say, you become allergic to the stuff that doesn't suit you or work for you in your life. And, you know, it's powerful.
- [30:45]
A
How does it work? How does, like, being a dad work into dating? Do you like. Does that make it easier or harder or. Doesn't matter.
- [30:53]
C
I think my kids think it's hysterical. I mean, I have such a good relationship with them. They're 21 and 23. But I'll be like, Kate, what do you think to this person? And she's like, no, dad, that's not right for you. You know, they have an opinion on it. Billy, my son is just like, whatever, like, whatever. He's like, he's in university land, living his best life, but we have really open conversation and dialect. But obviously I'm never going to introduce him to someone that's, you know, something casual or whatever, I think that would be. But it's also like, we know what we've got, and I love that we can be so honest and open. I think it's really healthy. Yeah, they're protective of. I think they're protective of me for sure.
- [31:35]
A
And I'm sure dating with kids who are older, it's not like you're signing up. You're looking for, like a bonus parent for them. Like, they're not, you know, it's a. That probably takes that out of the equation. It's not like they're even teenagers, right?
- [31:47]
C
No, they're 21 and 23. I mean, they've got their own lives.
- [31:50]
B
But it's got to be tough to hear their opinion. Like, I mean, it's got to, like, hit you a little hard because they know, like, you even said your daughter's like, that's not good for you. And you're like, ah, she's playing the.
- [32:01]
A
Hairstylist to you and your dating life. Yes.
- [32:03]
C
Yeah, I love it. I think it's great. I think it's fun. I mean, I don't know. I love that I have that. I guess being a younger dad, hopefully that's like one of the positive things about it as well, that we can be right, you know, can be relatable. And yeah, keep it open and honest and I think they've learned from some of my mistakes, which is good right now. Get up to 20% off select online storage solutions put heavy duty HDX totes to good use, protecting what's important to you. The solid impact resistant design prevents cracking and the clear base and sides make items easy to find even when the totes are stacked. Find Select Online Shelving and Tote storage up to 20% off at the Home Depot. To organize every room in your home, from your garage to your attic, visit homedepot.com how doers get More Done this episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling and when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have helped finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [33:19]
B
Well, we're going to have you be the dad to our audience right now. We're going to do some advice. An advice question. Is that okay with you?
- [33:26]
C
Yeah, let's go for it.
- [33:27]
B
We want everyone to go buy Chris Appleton's book. It's called you'd Roots Don't Define you. It is out right now. The link to purchase it is in the bio this episode. Wherever you're listening or watching. You want me to read the email?
- [33:39]
A
Sure.
- [33:39]
B
Okay. J&J 26 year old gay man living in New York City. Originally from a small town in Ohio, I've been here for about four years and dating has been fun and definitely different from small town life. Didn't think I would, but last year I met someone and from the moment we met we were inseparable. I'm now dating my current partner for 11 months. He's about 12 years older than me and this is the happiest and most secure relationship I've ever had. We communicate well, recently moved in together and I feel really confident about us. Early on he asked if I'd be open to an open relationship. The agreement was full emotional commitment to each other, but freedom to have sex with others under clear rules. No sleepovers, no hookups in our shared home, and no emotional connection. After a lot of conversations and some hesitation on my end since I can be a bit jealous, talking openly about what we like and what turns us on made it feel right to try. It's actually been fun and freeing and hasn't affected Our relationship. Until recently, I've been hooking up with one guy, let's call him B. And I'm realizing I'm starting to have feelings for him. Which clearly crosses the boundaries my partner and I have set. The other night I slept over B's apartment and it wasn't something I needed to tell my partner because he's out of town. The feelings are exciting but also scary because my partner means everything to me. I know I should probably end things with B, but I don't know how to talk to my partner about this without hurting what we have. We're also supposed to go on a one year anniversary trip to Tokyo in a couple of weeks and the timing feels awful. The trip matters far less than protecting this relationship. How do I handle this? Honestly? Do I say something now, wait until after the trip? Or am I already in too deep? Help. I really don't want to mess this up. Open but overwhelmed. What do you think? Chris Appleton.
- [35:23]
C
Wow. I feel like I know this person. It's like a. That was an in depth question.
- [35:30]
B
Full details. Everything's here.
- [35:33]
C
No, I love it. I mean, obviously they're in touch with how they feel and they can communicate that really well. I think my advice would be to communicate it to your partner. I mean, I've been in situations and relationships in the past where I've been in an open relationship. I just didn't know about it. So I mean, open relationships are not enough for me. I'm, you know, that's not something that I'm into. But each to their own. But I think it's all just down to conversation and communication. I think the one thing about communication or, you know, being in an open relationship is how important the communication is. My advice would just to be. I'm just a pretty honest person. I say what I see. I think it's really healthy to respect boundaries. And I think if you truly love your partner, you should be able to sit down and have a conversation with them and explore what that means and what the next steps are. I think avoiding it, to me it just puts a barrier between. It's just going to put a barrier between you because you know that you've got something you're not really truly telling them they don't know. I think it just puts something between you and slowly that builds. And I think sometimes that's the beginning of the end, you know, because even if you're not conscious you're doing it, you're kind of separating. Whereas I think if you truly love your partner and you Want to be with them, you should sit down and be honest with them and have an open conversation. That's really healthy. So I would say, face it, do it before the trip. Get it out. And maybe that trip will then be the beginning of something else. But at least you'll do it with a clear conscience and you'll. You'll feel good about the decision you're making.
- [36:56]
B
You're totally right. The. The lies create more lies. Like this one will create the next one. Create the next one. And honestly, it's.
- [37:05]
C
To me, that's the beginning of the end.
- [37:07]
B
Like, right? And. But based on their rules, the rules aren't really fair. The rules are crazy. No sleepovers. No hookups in our shared home. Okay. That's easy. No emotional connections. How do you control that? Right. That's like a crazy thing to put. Put rules on. Like, I think the rule needs to change to, you know, talking to your partner when an emotional connection may be developing. Like, that's a better rule. I would want to re. Renegotiate the rules with them just to make sure they could actually be attainable.
- [37:35]
C
That is the risk of, like, that's like saying you can drink. You can have one drink at the bar, but you can't have two. And it's like, maybe you were having fun and you said, I don't know, like, inevitably, if you're sleeping or hooking up with someone and you like someone, like, that could happen. But I think you just got to be honest about it and come back to some conversation. And if you guys are in the playground, then, you know, you've got to talk about it. You got to play, you know, and talk and be honest about it, because otherwise, I think it just eats people up. And to me, I think it's like the beginning of the end. But like I say, each to their own. I think you also have to decide if, like, is this. Are you getting something from this other person that you're not your partner? And what is that? I think have a conversation with them about that. But that's why I would never be in an open relationship. Because when I'm with some. I mean, look, when I'm single, I can sleep with who I want. Whenever I'm in a relationship, I think it's a beautiful thing to be able to have it between the two of you. And it's for me that that's just the way I feel. But I know for some people it's different and they can have that. But for me, I'm a very kind of connected person. So to then hook up with other people, you know, it's kind of maybe natural to sometimes maybe like that person want to see them again, you know, it's kind of human nature to an extent. That's why I think it should just be an honest conversation.
- [38:45]
A
Right. I think some people are better. Are better at separating sex and emotion than other people.
- [38:51]
C
Totally.
- [38:52]
A
I think that. Yeah. And it's very hard, you know, when you. I don't know if they had that conversation when they were talking about the open relationship is like, what is your relationship to sex? Can you have. Do you even enjoy sex to someone that you're not emotionally connected to? I personally don't. So I do think that it's like you said, all about the communication and also what you said, kind of the beginning of the end, just in terms of. Of things don't happen completely isolated. So, like, if you're feeling more connected to one person, I'm assuming something about the connection to your original partner is either different or lacking or less strong or something like that. And I think that's the thing to explore. Is that something you can come back from? Are you having, like, a little bit of a rut?
- [39:29]
B
Well, also, he's already kind of set the stage for this being, like a very easy. Not easy, but, like a rational conversation because he was uncomfortable with it going in. Like, he knew this could happen. He didn't feel like it fit his, you know, his feelings and how he relates to sex. So now you go to this conversation. I don't think this ends the trip to Tokyo is my point. Like, I. I think, like, I don't think it's over. I think that's his fear is like, it'll ruin this best relationship I've ever had for this other, you know, these other feelings that are just come out of nowhere because my partner wanted to try this other lifestyle. I think if he goes to his partner who he shares this connection with and says, yeah, I. I feel like I'm losing control of this. This is something you want, and I'm doing this for you now. I'm caught up in it.
- [40:12]
A
Right.
- [40:12]
B
That's the. That's the conversation to have. And I think he has a right to have that. Like, it won't be met with anger, I don't think is my point.
- [40:19]
C
People change over time, you know, like, although they set those rules, then, like, over time people change. Relationships are complex. People are messy. And I think the only way to move forward is together. And if you're leaving that person Behind. It's. There's just gonna be. You're just imbalanced. It's not gonna work. So I think, like, the best thing is just honesty, you know, and if you can't have an honest conversation, that's also a problem. Like, if you can't actually be honest and sit down with, you know, feel like you can have a conversation about it, it's also an issue, you know, So I think it's okay that things change. And, you know, like I say, people always bring baggage into a relationship. There's always some sort of complexity. But I think to be able to, like, sit and talk about it will just make you stronger and move on. Move on. Better and stronger for sure.
- [41:02]
A
How did you find out you were in an open relationship without your knowledge?
- [41:05]
C
Oh, God. In many situations. It's just my past dating history, you know, you live and experience many different things. How did I find out? Like I said, I just didn't know about it until I did.
- [41:19]
B
That's how it got the memo.
- [41:20]
A
Got the memo late.
- [41:21]
C
Oh, okay. No one told me. Okay, cool.
- [41:25]
B
Everyone go by Chris Appleton's book. It is called you'd Roots Don't Define youe. The blink is in the bio. This episode. He's holding it up on YouTube.
- [41:32]
A
Out now. Outright blonde on the COVID Guys, do.
- [41:35]
C
You think I look better as a blonde or a brunette? Everyone's always telling me to go back blonde, but I feel like I like my brunette hair. What do you guys think?
- [41:42]
A
I'm more into brunettes.
- [41:44]
B
I think the flow you got going on.
- [41:45]
A
I'm a brunette.
- [41:46]
B
Is the move. I think we're into the flow.
- [41:48]
A
Yeah.
- [41:48]
B
Yeah.
- [41:48]
C
And then.
- [41:49]
B
And then it ages you down.
- [41:51]
C
The viewers at home. Do I get my hands on you and give you a flow? Maybe. Maybe we do.
- [41:55]
B
I listen, if you get. If you can make this. This. This Jew fro.
- [42:00]
A
I need more help.
- [42:00]
B
Beautiful swan.
- [42:01]
C
Yeah, you guys, actually. What about you? Okay, we'll do both of you. That's cool.
- [42:05]
A
Yes.
- [42:06]
C
Amazing on you. He's had a full consultation. We've got an appointment. What the hell?
- [42:12]
A
You took the whole.
- [42:13]
B
I'm sorry. I got. You know, I'm here with an accent.
- [42:16]
A
No one's asked me who my hair idol is.
- [42:18]
B
Who's your hair idol?
- [42:19]
A
You know, Blake Lively has great hair.
- [42:20]
B
Blake Lively. I don't know if you're a Blake Lively.
- [42:23]
A
I don't know.
- [42:24]
C
She has amazing hair. Yeah, it's her hair. She looks great. She's blonde, though.
- [42:28]
A
I don't know if the long blonde hair would Work for me.
- [42:31]
C
But, oh, look, you see? You're exploring. Planted.
- [42:33]
A
See, look, we're doing it right now.
- [42:34]
B
There it is.
- [42:35]
C
Planted the seed. This is where I go, well, why do you believe that? Why do you think it would? Well, you know, someone just told me I couldn't. It's just a conversation.
- [42:43]
A
I love it.
- [42:44]
C
And that's what, honestly, going to the hair salon should be like. So even if anything, it will teach you to when you go to the salon, what to expect, you know, like, what you should be leaving with and, you know, the possibilities. And honestly, it's never too late to make a comeback. It's never too late. A lot of people over the age of 30 are like, I'm too old. It's too late. I'm stuck in this marriage. I'm stuck in this job. I'm stuck with this hairstyle. It's never too late to make me come back. Listen, if Kris Jenner has anything to go by, it's never too late. Like, look at this amazing face. She's changing her hair up, and she's having fun doing it. You know, she's not trying to delete her past. Also, she is fully open with it, and I think living authentically like that is great.
- [43:23]
A
Yeah.
- [43:23]
B
That's why people love them.
- [43:24]
A
This is why they pay you the big bucks, right? I feel inspired to. Next time you see me when I come back from maternity leave, I'm gonna have long blonde hair.
- [43:31]
B
Blake live. I'll be like, Blake. Chris Appleton, thank you for solving dating with us. We did it again. Jordana.
- [43:39]
C
Thank you.
- [43:40]
A
All right, we'll be back.
- [43:41]
C
Thanks so much for having me.
- [43:42]
B
Boom. Thank you.
- [43:43]
A
Thank you.