Dating Titles: Exclusive vs Boyfriend

Summary

U Up? – Dating Titles: Exclusive vs Boyfriend

Hosts: Jordana Abraham & Jared Freid
Date: November 7, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jordana and Jared take a deep dive into the nuances of modern dating labels, specifically breaking down the difference between being "exclusive" and becoming a "boyfriend/girlfriend." They read listener emails that tackle tricky situations around ghosting, dating standards, and commitment. The hosts also discuss the motivations and mindsets behind negotiating titles and boundaries, offering their trademark blend of empathy, humor, and unfiltered advice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Petty or Prudent: Ghosting, Vengeance, and How to Act When You Run Into an Ex

• [16:19-23:00]
  A listener writes in about an awkward bar encounter with a former date who ghosted her. She publicly gossiped about him within earshot, wondering if her behavior was petty or justified.

  • The host duo agree that the move was "petty, but not evil," and much less harmful than it could have been.
  • Jared's Perspective: “You have the choice between doing the hard thing or the easy thing.” (20:27)
  • Jordana's Reflections: “Nothing makes you feel like more of a piece of shit than if you’ve done something wrong to someone and then they come up to you and they’re nice to you.” (21:48)
  • Both suggest the most effective “revenge” is being gracious and unaffected when you run into someone who hurt you, though they empathize with the urge to resort to pettiness.
  • Memorable Quote:
    Jared: "If you’re dating The Rock, that’s the ultimate revenge." (22:45)

2. Main Email: Navigating Exclusivity vs. Boyfriend Status

• [26:24-36:29]
  A 28-year-old male listener details his experience with a woman who expects exclusivity after three months, yet intimacy and even dropping her off at home are off the table. He’s struggling to reconcile his desire for intimacy with her boundaries and wonders if he should commit.

  • Jared’s Analysis: The writer’s view is "very male" and transactional, focusing on “leverage” as if dating is an exchange of sex for commitment.
    • Quote: “He’s doing math on something that’s a little more magic than science.” (31:50)
    • Jared pushes back on the idea that women are dating for free meals: “It’s easier for these men…to say women are just looking for free meals than to say they’re trying to protect themselves because they want a loving relationship.” (34:41)
  • Jordana’s Take: Supports the woman’s boundary of waiting for exclusivity before sex, pointing out that “most women want to work toward a relationship. That’s why they’re going out with you. It’s not for food.” (34:34)
  • Both agree: If the intimacy-level isn’t building naturally or if it feels too transactional, it probably isn’t a match.
  • Advice for the Listener:
    • Communicate openly without pressuring.
    • Recognize your emotional style—if you view dating as a ledger, it probably isn’t right for you or your date.
    • “You need a little delusion to jump into a relationship—it’s not all math.”
    • This woman's boundary is valid and protects her, not just a "strategy" for leverage.

3. Exclusive vs. Boyfriend/Girlfriend: Semantic or Substantive?

• [30:57-31:27]
  • Discussion about how "exclusive" is sometimes used as a soft-launch toward relationships, while "boyfriend/girlfriend" feels like a more public, committed status.
  • Jordana: “She’s not even saying you need to be my boyfriend. I think this is a totally fine standard to have…”
  • Jared: “I don’t think she’s wrong. My answer is, this doesn’t feel like the match.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Petty Revenge:
  Jordana (21:48): “Nothing makes you feel like more of a piece of shit than…someone you wronged coming up and being nice to you.”
• On Transactional Dating:
  Jared (31:50): “He’s doing math on something that’s a little more magic than science.”
• On the “Free Meal” Trope:
  Jordana (34:03): “Food isn’t that expensive. No one wants a free cheeseburger so badly they’re willing to spend two hours with someone they don’t like.”
• Ultimate Revenge Fantasy:
  Jared (22:45): “Meet my husband, Dwayne The Rock Johnson…that's the ultimate revenge.”
• Dating Requires Delusion:
  Jared (32:16): “You need a little delusion to jump into a relationship—it’s not all debits and credits.”
• Modern Exclusivity:
  Jordana (31:07): “I don’t want to be having sex with someone who’s having sex with other people…if you agree to not sleep with anyone else, then I’ll open up that part of my life.”

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Important Timestamps

• [16:19] – Start of "Petty or Prudent" ghosting story.
• [21:48] – Best way to make a ghoster feel bad: kindness.
• [22:45] – The Rock as the ultimate revenge.
• [26:24] – Start of "Exclusivity vs. Commitment" listener email.
• [31:07] – Defining exclusivity and sex boundaries.
• [32:16] – Dating equations vs. romantic delusion.
• [34:03] – 'Free meal' myth debunked.
• [34:41] – Emotional motivations behind dating boundaries.

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Episode Tone & Style

• Conversational, witty, occasionally irreverent.
• The hosts blend empathy with realism, never shying away from calling out harmful dating mindsets but always with a touch of understanding and humor.
• The overall vibe is both light-hearted and insightful, making complex questions about intimacy and titles accessible and relatable.

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Takeaway Advice

• On Ghosting Encounters: Maturity and grace are ultimately more effective than revenge, but a little pettiness is understandable.
• On Exclusivity vs. Official Titles: Boundaries around sex and commitment are personal and valid; if your needs don’t align, it’s okay to walk away.
• On "Free Meal" Myths: Most people are dating for connection, not perks; suspicion damages the potential for genuine intimacy.
• On Modern Dating: Trust requires both honest communication and a small leap of faith—neither metrics nor “leverage” alone will get you a loving relationship.

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Summary:
This episode explores the gray areas between "exclusive" and "official," emphasizing that care, understanding, and healthy boundaries matter more than playing games or keeping score. If the magic and momentum aren’t mutual, no amount of logic or transaction can make a relationship work.

Transcript

[Jordana Abraham]

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[Jared Freid]

He. All right, voice is ready.

[Jordana Abraham]

Me, me, me, me. Ready me, me, me. My hair is normal. Cool. Let's do it. Hello and welcome back to the you up Podcast Friday Feels episode. I'm Jordana Abraham.

[Jared Freid]

And I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here with you, Jordan. I got a little hiccup there.

[Jordana Abraham]

Look at that.

[Jared Freid]

What's going on with you? How are you?

[Jordana Abraham]

How you doing? November 7th.

[Jared Freid]

November 7th.

[Jordana Abraham]

November 7th.

[Jared Freid]

Thanksgiving is coming.

[Jordana Abraham]

It'.

[Jared Freid]

My favorite holiday.

[Jordana Abraham]

Favorite time of the year.

[Jared Freid]

Thanksgiving is the best holiday of the year. The most selfish holiday of the year. You don't have to do anything, just eat, no gifts, do you?

[Jordana Abraham]

Would you prefer Thanksgiving in a colder climate? I feel like Thanksgiving in Florida, you know, a lot of pressure.

[Jared Freid]

I, I agree with you. And then I didn't, I thought Thanksgiving gotta be a little cold, gotta be football on. And then you spend one year in Florida doing it and you're like, I could never have it on the other way. Really, it is such a pleasure to be on the beach on Thanksgiving all the time. All the time. But on Thanksgiving, knowing that there's someone more miserable and colder than you, it's a pretty great. That's.

[Jordana Abraham]

You like the fall weather, don't you?

[Jared Freid]

I do. Like, look at. I'm even dressed very fall today.

[Jordana Abraham]

To break out all your fall clothes.

[Jared Freid]

I have a special closet. Thank you. I think it's. Yeah. Jacket over shirt, whatever it is. I just. I love Thanksgiving in Florida. It's a. It's actually the best weather. You would like it, I think, as far as weather is concerned. And just, like, you can watch football outside. Like, I think you appreciate more when you grow up in the Northeast. You're like, oh, my God. Can you believe? Like, it feels like you're getting away with something.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. Right.

[Jared Freid]

My dad. Right. We should be. We should be, you know, upset. Like, my dad used to, like, watch my football games with, like, warmers on his hands and stuff, like.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. It feels like you should have to pay in some other way for, like. You know what I mean? When the. When the weather's too good. When it's like, Mike went to. I think I told you this. Mike went to University of Miami. And we were in. We were around there one year, and he, like. We, like, went to the campus. He was showing me the campus, and I'm like, this is a real school.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah. The people that were just allowed.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

How did they even concentrate?

[Jordana Abraham]

There was, like, the most gorgeous girls walking around in, like, bikinis on campus. There's, like, a pool school in the middle of the. It looks like a resort. I'm like.

[Jared Freid]

And it's October.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. I'm like, I can't believe your parents paid for this. This is like.

[Jared Freid]

They let you do this.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

I never. It never even crossed my mind to go to a school in, like, a place that was, like, warm weather or, like, anything like that.

[Jordana Abraham]

Same. I never thought about it. Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

I never. And then you're like, why wouldn't I think about that? Like, yeah. You're already spending all this money. Like, might as well go to the.

[Jordana Abraham]

Beach on the weekends, right? Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

So. No, I love Florida in the fall. It's really kind of the best time to be there. But I am happy to be here.

[Jordana Abraham]

Welcome.

[Jared Freid]

Friday feels. I'm happy to be here with you. What's going on with you? What's happening? What are you going to do for Thanksgiving? Are you getting ready?

[Jordana Abraham]

What am I going to do?

[Jared Freid]

What will you do?

[Jordana Abraham]

I'll probably go to Mike's parents. That's Kind of where they're more functional.

[Jared Freid]

Okay. They do a more traditional Thanksgiving.

[Jordana Abraham]

They do a more like a real Thanksgiving. I never went to, like, a real Thanksgiving growing up. My dad, my mom would always give the respective dads the Jewish holiday. I mean, the non Jewish holidays. Ah. So she would take like, Rosh Hashanah and Passover, and she'd be like, you guys just. I don't care about, like, get away from me. For the American holidays. For the American holidays. So Thanksgiving, we would. We would separate and go to our respective dads. And my dad has, as you know, a one bedroom apartment. So we would go to. We would just go to dinner for Thanksgiving. So it just kind of felt like we would go to dinner and like, and my sisters and I would, like, scream at each other and fight with each other and then I'd go home. So it kind of felt like every other night, but.

[Jared Freid]

Sounds fun.

[Jordana Abraham]

No, it was horrible. Like, I don't have, like, positive. I don't think of Thanksgiving fondly, but now it's nice.

[Jared Freid]

Funny how different yours is. Was from mine.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yes. Yours sounds like a beep, like Beaver Cleaver.

[Jared Freid]

Mine is out of a storybook. Yeah. I mean, Needham, Massachusetts, it's the longest running high school Thanksgiving rivalry in the country.

[Jordana Abraham]

Is that when you scored your one touchdown?

[Jared Freid]

No, it was a different week.

[Jordana Abraham]

Was Friday Night Lights.

[Jared Freid]

Friday Night Lights. I was in Framingham, Massachusetts. No, the Needham Wellesley is the longest.

[Jordana Abraham]

Wellesley the college.

[Jared Freid]

Wellesley the college. Also Wellesley the town Wellesley and Needham were rivals for. And it's the longest football Thanksgiving rivalry. It's in the, in the country. So, like, there's a lot of pride.

[Jordana Abraham]

Good at football?

[Jared Freid]

No, we were like, fine. Like, it wasn't good. Massachusetts football is not very good.

[Jordana Abraham]

Long island football.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah. Like Pennsylvania, Texas, Ohio.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

That's where the, the football kind of happens. California. But this was like, you know, in the, in the bubble of it all.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

You know, comparative. It's. It doesn't matter how good. It's. These two towns hate each other. This is a tradition that we do every year. You have a connection to the last generation via this stupid thing. It's kind of fun, you know? Like, this is the problem with the Internet. The Internet made the world so much. It's so hard to be cheesy, you know? Like, it's so hard to, like, live in this bubble where, like, it matters, you know, Like, I kind of envy, you know, the Internet. The great depressing part of the Internet is to find out the. That your experience Wasn't that individual. It wasn't that special. It's the same as everyone else, you know, with minor differences. The weather, you know, like, yeah, the. You know, the local commercials and those are going away streaming. We are becoming a monoculture. You know, I'm depressed one way and not in another way.

[Jordana Abraham]

It's not even noon and I already want to, you know, take my Zoloft.

[Jared Freid]

Right? Like. Like the loss of local TV commercials is a big loss, personality wise.

[Jordana Abraham]

Okay. I mean, you could still watch cable, but it's just.

[Jared Freid]

It's. You could. But you can at some point, right? You could buy a newspaper.

[Jordana Abraham]

That's true.

[Jared Freid]

You know, like, why would you. Why would you. It's just not going to happen that way. Unless you're, like, trying to be, you know, Mr. Wall street sitting at a coffee. Like, when I see a guy having coffee with the paper out, I'm like, okay, the big show is on.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

No one on the train trying to be somebody.

[Jordana Abraham]

No one on the train's got a newspaper.

[Jared Freid]

Nobody.

[Jordana Abraham]

But that used to be what you had. I can't imagine how I take the train. It's like a long train and I'm kind of like, before someone had their phone. Like, now it flies by on my phone. I'm like, doing what I would have done on my couch before work, Right? But I'm kind of like 40 years ago. What are you just staring at the window?

[Jared Freid]

Well, you. I guess you're packing things. How about taking a. I mean, that's.

[Jordana Abraham]

Still the same situation.

[Jared Freid]

Bring the newspaper with you. Well, you couldn't.

[Jordana Abraham]

Oh, you're down on the train. I'm like. I'm like. Still can't get. It's like, you still can't take a. On the train. You can. I mean, I guess you could. There's a bathroom, but still, right?

[Jared Freid]

But I'm. I'm saying, like, when in the office, there was a moment where you'd have to, like, take the newspaper, put it under your. I'll be back in 20 minutes. I wonder where Jared went. Like, now I can, like, sneak off and do my 20 minutes on my phone, right? We're living in the best and worst.

[Jordana Abraham]

Of times, as they said in. What was the. What's that book? What is the book?

[Jared Freid]

It's the Blurs of Time.

[Jordana Abraham]

The Best of times. It was the worst of times.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

What is that book? I should know this.

[Jared Freid]

Mice and Men.

[Jordana Abraham]

No. A Tale of Two Cities. Yes. Was the best of times.

[Jared Freid]

So what are we talking about?

[Jordana Abraham]

All right, let's do A petty or prudent.

[Jared Freid]

Let's do it. If you're out there and you want to come to a show. I have shows right now. I'm doing as this is releasing. I'm gonna be in Minneapolis. I think I was just there. I think I'm in Minneapolis or Milwaukee. I'm in Minneapolis tonight, and then I'm in Chicago tomorrow. Great city of Chicago. Get the tickets. If they're still there. I want you to come and enjoy the show. Have a fun night out. Like, I, I don't even know what else you'd be doing.

[Jordana Abraham]

Just go. Don't think about it. Just go.

[Jared Freid]

Miami and Fort Lauderdale are coming. That's Thanksgiving weekend.

[Jordana Abraham]

And you're gonna be in great spirits. It's your favorite weekend of the year.

[Jared Freid]

So happy the, the, I mean, the Fort Lauderdale show. My parents are talking to me about how I have to. You think you're bad to get tickets for? They're like, we need 50 tickets. And I'm like, I'm not 50. They are like. And they look at me like, it's a right.

[Jordana Abraham]

So you're doing the show for free?

[Jared Freid]

Well, not just free. It wouldn't even matter. That would be okay. The problem with 50 tickets is you now create a old Jewish crater in the middle of the room, like, where they usually just people together and they're all like, now you're doing a party, right? I'm not doing my show. I'm doing the show for them and their friends and, like, them talking to each other and feeling. I, I. You need people to feel alone and uncomfortable in a comedy.

[Jordana Abraham]

That's true. Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Like, you got to feel like the lights are so dark that you're not being seen laughing at something a little uncomfortable that you're not, you know, like, you don't want to have to, like, live in a world. Look to your right. Are they okay? Are they okay? You don't have to do that. It's a step in between laughter. And so I'm like. And I'm telling, like, I don't know how to communicate to the, like, the theater. Like, if I put them all in the back, the theater would be like, hey, we can't start on time. There's 50 people complaining about being in the back.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

Like, they'll be awful.

[Jordana Abraham]

So, yeah, you really got a big.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, I got a big issue on my hands.

[Jordana Abraham]

Why don't you just do a show at the Thanksgiving?

[Jared Freid]

Just, just go to the Thanksgiving at the club and do it.

[Jordana Abraham]

There's.

[Jared Freid]

And just, like, have the Worst night of my life. To get it out of the way.

[Jordana Abraham]

Get it out of the way. Then you can have the show you want.

[Jared Freid]

That's a good idea. Also coming up, Durham, North Carolina. Charleston. I'm doing, like, a Durham run. A Charlotte. Charlotte. It's been a while since I've been to Charlotte. And Orlando. San Diego. I'm finishing San Diego.

[Jordana Abraham]

You go to Disney.

[Jared Freid]

I might make a little trip to Disney.

[Jordana Abraham]

You should go to Disney. Good content.

[Jared Freid]

Good content.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Right? That'd be fun.

[Jordana Abraham]

I love Disney.

[Jared Freid]

You do?

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah, it's fun. I mean, it's better with kids.

[Jared Freid]

But have you gone, like, I went.

[Jordana Abraham]

With my nieces and my sister, like, probably 10 years ago. It's just, like, really fun to watch.

[Jared Freid]

Them go through it. You're probably like.

[Jordana Abraham]

And it's like, so clean. They really do. I mean, obviously, I'm not saying that's obvious, but they really do a great job of just making it, like, it's like a full immersive experience. It's very cool.

[Jared Freid]

The Disney adults get a lot of. Because we watch them at home, like, being like, look at these freaks.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. I mean, they are freaks, but whether.

[Jared Freid]

They'Re freaks or not, I still think they're freaks. But I think when you're there.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

Like, no, again, the bubble.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

You. Like, you're saying, I could understand you're there and you're like, I'm gonna hug Goofy.

[Jordana Abraham]

It's magical.

[Jared Freid]

And I'm 52.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

And I'm alone.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

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[Jared Freid]

So what are we talking about?

[Jordana Abraham]

All right, let's do a petty or prudent okay, something happens.

[Jared Freid]

Something happens, you break up. You act a certain way afterwards. Were you being petty or was it prudent? Did you need to do it?

[Jordana Abraham]

Let's do it. Hello jj. Such a big fan that I'm pushing episodes, sharing clips with my friends, and even became a subscriber.

[Jared Freid]

Thank you.

[Jordana Abraham]

Love it. This awkward encounter happened a few years ago when I was in grad school in Colorado. I don't remember the exact details, but the memory came back the other day when a girlfriend was complaining about dating. And yes, I am the villain in this. She's already self proclaimed herself the villain. Okay, we'll see. I'm a straight woman in my mid, late in my mid to late 20s at the time. Why not just say your age? I met 27. Mid to late 20s.

[Jared Freid]

Right? Mid to late 20s. Mid to late, yeah. At this point we're 27.

[Jordana Abraham]

It sounds like 20.

[Jared Freid]

It's either 27 or 28.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yes. Okay, there you go. I fixed it for you. Yeah, I met this guy, similar age, not in grad school, but had a real job on a dating app. It was the stereotypical hot and cold situation, good dates or steamy hookups, followed by a few silent days. Looking back, it's clear he wanted something more casual than I did, but I couldn't acknowledge it. Eventually we planned a date and he ghosted. I didn't hear from him for about a month until he showed up at a brewery I was at and I seized my moment of vengeance. The brewery had regular craft and game days, Mario Kart races, paint a clay mug, interesting and wholesome vibes. I was in my. It was in my neighborhood. I often walked there with friends, and I talked about it frequently. That day was a Sunday, and they had a promo. Buy a beer and get all the materials for a cross, for a small cross stitch embroidery loop. Okay.

[Jared Freid]

Get all the materials for a small cross stitch embroidery hoop.

[Jordana Abraham]

Embroidery hoop.

[Jared Freid]

What's that?

[Jordana Abraham]

I assume that's something for, like, knitting or sewing. Very.

[Jared Freid]

Oh, there's a lot of different loops that you crochet.

[Jordana Abraham]

There's a lot of different vibes going on at this place. I'm kind of intrigued.

[Jared Freid]

I mean, it's very Denver.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. It was early afternoon. I was sitting at the corner of the bar. Make drinking a beer and stitching some flowers. As you do. As you do.

[Jared Freid]

Oh, this old woman wrote in. I'm at the corner of the bars doing my crochet.

[Jordana Abraham]

This is.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, fun. Sexy.

[Jordana Abraham]

When two women, mid to late 30s, sat nearby, we started chatting and gossiping around. My second beer, the guy appears. He was directly in my line of sight. There was no one else at the bar aside from me. My two friends, him and the bartender. We shared a brief moment of eye contact. He looked away and sat at the bar.

[Jared Freid]

Oh, no.

[Jordana Abraham]

I remember thinking, why he'd choose that seat when there are so many others. This is where I took my vengeance. I pointed him out and said in a stage whisper, see that guy? He ghosted me. They leaned in for gossip, and I told the dirty details, exaggerating a bit. I knew he could hear because he was staring at the bar, getting redder by the minute. After about 20 minutes. How long is this story? After about 20 minutes, he got up and left, never to be seen again. I admit I could have handled it better. I didn't need to acknowledge him at all. I was petty in the moment. But my friend who sparked this memory says it was prudent because it taught him. So what do you think? Petty or prudent? Instead of ignoring him, I took an opportunity to embarrass him publicly. How would you have handled it? Would you have ignored him or offered a more civil acknowledgment? Sincerely, a petty batch. So it sounds like she's, like, telling her friends about the fact that he.

[Jared Freid]

Goes, right, she met these new friends.

[Jordana Abraham]

Oh, she calls them her friends. So I didn't really. Okay, it's her new. So these new people at the bar, she's telling the people at the bar that, like all the. The terrible things that he's done while he's sitting right there.

[Jared Freid]

Right. So basically, it's as If I pointed out the production here, right? And was like, jordana, look at.

[Jordana Abraham]

It's like a fake whisper.

[Jared Freid]

They go. They ghosted a stage whisper. Being that it's like, normal, but you're going, yeah. Is it petty or prudent to do that?

[Jordana Abraham]

Listen, I think it's, like, a little petty, but I don't think that you've destroyed anyone's life. I think it's like, I can understand the urge. I think it's weird he didn't say anything when he walked in. I think he's being petty by not saying hello.

[Jared Freid]

Everyone's being, yes, here's the thing. You have the choice between doing the hard thing or the easy thing.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. She's not, like, throwing a glass at him, right.

[Jared Freid]

And so, like, she's evil. I think the friend, like, the person in the story I hate the most is the friend being like, you taught.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right? I don't think she taught him.

[Jared Freid]

I think that friend is a loser. I like the idea that you taught anyone anything. If anything, you taught him how to handle someone who he has ghosted in the future. Like, which is to what? I guess, like, I. If I walked away from that and I heard her talking about how I ghosted her, I'd be like, next time I should have just gone straight up to her and been like, hey, I, good to see you. We're not really sorry. I don't even think I wouldn't go. I think it would not teach you.

[Jordana Abraham]

I would head out. I would confront someone.

[Jared Freid]

Hey, good to see you. I realized just now I didn't handle how we ended. Really great.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

I just want to say I'm sorry about that. Like, that he probably would do that more than he would say, I. I'm never ghosting again.

[Jordana Abraham]

Like.

[Jared Freid]

Like that's more likely.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

So it's petty, but everyone's petty, right?

[Jordana Abraham]

I don't think it was that bad.

[Jared Freid]

I think the friend who says you taught him is more of the petty one.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. Well, she wasn't even there, right?

[Jared Freid]

But her, like, pushing this.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. I guess. What should she have done in, like, the. In the prudent scenario would be like, she walks up to him. Nothing makes you feel like more of a piece of. Than if you'd have done something wrong to someone and then they come up to you and they're nice to you.

[Jared Freid]

Totally.

[Jordana Abraham]

Like, that would have actually been the worst. That would have taught him almost more like, that would have been the worst revenge.

[Jared Freid]

Right. The mature one always wins.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. If she went up to a long.

[Jared Freid]

Game that you're never gonna get paid off on. Yeah, like you're never gonna get a text later on. That's like the way you were is just like. It's very unlikely.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yes.

[Jared Freid]

You were just such a mature person. I gotta say. I missed out on the best thing that could. No, actually, if you said, if he's done that, then maybe you get back together like you that taught him. Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Well, you might get. If you're married with your big rock, you go up to him and go, hey, great to see you, but I'm really upset with how that ended. I thought you were just really not right, like mature.

[Jordana Abraham]

And then you as the person who didn't say hello when you walked in and ghosted them, you feel. Then you'd really feel like a piece of.

[Jared Freid]

And then you go, and this is my husband, Tom Brady. Or you go, this is my husband, the rock.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Any man, that's the ultimate revenge. Oh, yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

If you're dating the rock is the ultimate revenge.

[Jared Freid]

Meet my husband, Dwayne the Rock Johnson. Ah, he looks to the sky. She could have been mine.

[Jordana Abraham]

That's really funny.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

All right, so we've settled it Petty, but there. I've seen worse.

[Jared Freid]

Right? We've. You. You're okay, sister. You're not evil. Evil. You're not the villain.

[Jordana Abraham]

I have recently gotten my hands on another pair of skims pajamas. They are different than any other pajamas I have. As a woman, it's hard to find a pajama set that doesn't make you feel super frumpy. Your choices are like sexual and like uncomfortable or very, very comfortable and not flattering at all.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, it's tough to find a good spot.

[Jordana Abraham]

Exactly.

[Jared Freid]

That's everything from skims. It's just like this like unbelievable combination of sexy and comfortable.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. The fabric is incredible. I wear it most nights until it gets dirty. I need more because when I've worn it too many nights in a row, I have to wash it and I can't wear it that night because I air dry it.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah. Now you got like to wear your other stuff.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah, the old ratty sorority tea O. It's a. It's not a cute look. You literally cannot go wrong with this skims sleep set. It is so comfortable. As you know, I have a large Christmas list and it is the perfect gift. Not just for me because I'm going to get myself another pair, but for my mother in law, my sister in law, any siblings, any person in your life that, you know, enjoys a nice, comfortable and attractive set of pajamas. Perfect gift. You don't even have to think about it. Just get it. They'll be so excited to get it.

[Jared Freid]

Shop our favorite [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show from the drop down menu that follows. And if you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now [e-mail] this.

[Jordana Abraham]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Jared Freid]

Let's do another email.

[Jordana Abraham]

All right.

[Jared Freid]

You upbatches.com hey there. Love your podcast. It's funny, Real, always entertaining. This person's like a good. Yeah, Yeah. I love it. I could use some advice. I'm a 28 year old guy who met a woman, 29 on Bumble older lady. Oh, grandma want to take down the calf? From our first date, the chemistry was great. She's Muslim though, not practicing. And I don't really follow any religion myself, but I do believe in God.

[Jordana Abraham]

Good to know.

[Jared Freid]

Thanks for telling us. We haven't been fully intimate yet, though we make out on every date. She also never lets me drop her off at her place. On her sixth date, she brought up that after about three months of dating there should be exclusivity. By October 9th, it'll be two months since we met. Here's where I'm conflicted. She seems to hold the leverage with physical intimacy while I hold the leverage of commitment. But I can't commit to someone I haven't fully been intimate with. Especially when I'm not even allowed to walk her home. I feel I really like her. But I'm a man and part of me is starting to think about meeting other women again. I stopped doing that after our third date because I wanted to give this a real shot. But honestly, I don't have the energy to go on dates with women who just want a free meal either. He was doing so well. I know he was writing I and.

[Jordana Abraham]

This even, but I'm a man. That was a nice.

[Jared Freid]

It was a real hint.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

That something else was coming.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

I. And again, we talked about this last episode. But the. This show is made so that I can hold this guy's hand to show him.

[Jordana Abraham]

Is that why it's made?

[Jared Freid]

Is it?

[Jordana Abraham]

I thought it's so that we have.

[Jared Freid]

Fun with dating and also, like, help.

[Jordana Abraham]

The women understand why these monsters exist.

[Jared Freid]

Right. But he's not a man. He's a monster who listens to the show and likes it. So how much of a monster could he be? I. I do. I. I don't know where he got that from. Like, I feel like a parent.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

And I hear my kid use a swear word that I've never used.

[Jordana Abraham]

Go on dates with the one who just want a free meal.

[Jared Freid]

Like, that is something that I've never professed or given. Like the energy. Where do you get that one from?

[Jordana Abraham]

No, I don't know.

[Jared Freid]

That's where. So it's kind of weird.

[Jordana Abraham]

Okay.

[Jared Freid]

So my question is, should I talk to her openly about all this? How do I bring it up without sounding like I'm pressuring her? And should I even consider committing in this situation. Also, I'm planning our seventh date. Any creative ideas would be appreciated.

[Jordana Abraham]

This is so male.

[Jared Freid]

Very male. It's also like, I'm wondering if he came from YouTube. Like, I. I always wonder, like, where did the audience come from? And I can see that the YouTube audience is relatively newer and more male skewing.

[Jordana Abraham]

I could see that.

[Jared Freid]

So you're like, maybe that's. Maybe he hasn't gone through our catalog to see the. The episode where we said women wanting a free meal isn't a thing.

[Jordana Abraham]

Isn't a thing. Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

Or not. It's just saying that out loud does not sound great.

[Jared Freid]

Not gonna help your situation.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

What do you think? I think he does bring up, actually, like, in the most honest. Sorry to interrupt. But in the most honest way, he kind of brings up what the real crux of male, female dating, which is, like, the leverage. I mean, the way he puts it is very American Psycho. But the. The leverage of. Or the idea that, like, I need to be intimate to know if I want to be exclusive. And you need.

[Jordana Abraham]

Can I ask why he needs that? Is it because he thinks the sex will be bad? Well, he wants to see what she looks like naked. Like, what is. Like, why do you need. Why do you need to have sex? I don't know if you want to date someone.

[Jared Freid]

I don't think you need to have sex to know. To date someone. I do think the walking her home halfway and having a kiss isn't enough. You know, the way he explains it. Because he's never allowed to drop her.

[Jordana Abraham]

Off at home because he doesn't know, like, her family or her. No, just.

[Jared Freid]

But how intimate could you be with someone if you're, like, having dates that you're just like, good night. Like, I don't know. You're not, like, sitting on a couch watching a movie. You're not, like, to the movies. I'm just saying intimate in the physical sense doesn't have to be sex.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

I. I think this. This specific scenario is different than she's saying exclusivity.

[Jordana Abraham]

She's not even saying, you need to be my boyfriend.

[Jared Freid]

To me, they're one in the same.

[Jordana Abraham]

I don't think they are, because she's like. And I think this is a totally fine standard to have of, like, I. Sex is important to me.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

I don't want to be having sex with someone who's having sex with other people. We're getting to know each other and, like, if you decide you want to only get to Know me and not. And agree to not sleep with anyone else, then I will open up that part of my life to you because it means a lot to me and it makes me feel more attached. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

[Jared Freid]

I. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But he's already doing that.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

He said, after day three, I've been concentrating on this, and it still doesn't feel intimate enough for me to feel like I can be in a committed thing with her.

[Jordana Abraham]

Okay.

[Jared Freid]

So I. I agree with her saying there's no. Like, I don't think she's wrong. I mean, like, my answer to this.

[Jordana Abraham]

Is gonna be doing what works for her.

[Jared Freid]

Right. My answer to this is going to be this doesn't feel like the match.

[Jordana Abraham]

I would agree.

[Jared Freid]

Because you are not. You do. And I think what. He. He's doing math on something that's a little bit more magic than it is science. He's doing the math logical route, which is very male. Very. I feel a little transactional. Right. And he's not leverage.

[Jordana Abraham]

My Leverage the free dates. Like, he seems like he's. He's thinking about this in a very, like, what am I putting in and what am I getting out? Right.

[Jared Freid]

The free meal thing, you're right. But if you do need. And I think what he needs to hear is you need a little delusional to jump into a relationship. It's not all math. It's not all transactions. It's not all debits and credits. So he needs to let his brain go to this. I'm excited. They're the best person I've ever met. They're. I love them as a friend and a partner.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

To lose the. Well, I've spent 400 on six dates.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. I don't have to cut my losses.

[Jared Freid]

Right? Right. And I don't think. And I think for him, I don't think he'll think that way when it's someone he's really excited about. I think right now he's trying to.

[Jordana Abraham]

Like, hedge, like, how much more he should invest in this thing.

[Jared Freid]

Right. He's treating it like a business call.

[Jordana Abraham]

Which, fine. I think, like, when you have those kinds of rules for yourself. If I'm not sleeping with someone until I'm exclusive with them, that is to get rid of people who don't like you that much.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

Like, he. Like he might. Again, she's protecting herself from a very likely scenario.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

Of they sleep together. He's like, yeah. I feel the Same way I kind of felt before, which is like, having fun, but I don't necessarily want to date you. And so I'm gonna leave. And then she's kind of like, well, I'm now more attached to you, right?

[Jared Freid]

And he's not really seeing that. Like, when he's like, free meal. Like, no, she's not trying to get free meals.

[Jordana Abraham]

No, she's trying to.

[Jared Freid]

She's trying to figure out In a relationship, right? She's trying to figure out if she can trust you. You. She's trying to figure out if she can let you more into her life and. And deal with the embarrassment of being a woman who. A guy leaves her.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. You know, food isn't that expensive. No one wants to. I don't think all these men understand that, like, no one wants, like, a free cheeseburger so badly that they're willing to spend two hours with someone they don't like. You'd have to be, like, really fucking desperate.

[Jared Freid]

Well, for food, right? And they can. Unless you're flying them in a private jet.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. I mean, then I go on an extra date, right? Like.

[Jared Freid]

Like, you're. What you're bringing to the table is not something they can do on their own.

[Jordana Abraham]

Like, they're being so used. Most. Most women want to work towards a relationship. That's why they're going out with you. It's not for food.

[Jared Freid]

It's easier for this guy. And for these types of men, are the ones who speak on the Internet to say they're just looking for free meals than it is to say they're trying to protect themselves because they want a loving relationship. And maybe I'm just looking to have a quick fucking leave, right? So that's the rub, you know? The rub isn't she needs to get to know me before, you know, the rub is she's making sure. And. And honestly, a lot of men need that.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

They need the. Oh, whoa, whoa. And you got to go. Okay, now, I know this is something you want more, right? I need to, like, take a minute myself. I need to realize that, like, listen, I've had to do this where I go. This is something more to them than it is to me, and I need to respect that and make my decision for the next step based on that.

[Jordana Abraham]

And that's. I'm saying, a good thing either way, right?

[Jared Freid]

And so this has nothing to do with meals. So that's kind of why I think this guy has to find the delusion in dating, the. The fun in dating. It's not, you know, well, 600 bucks equals. Equals three dates, which means I'll get blown.

[Jordana Abraham]

Exactly.

[Jared Freid]

You know, like, not a helpful, like. Yeah, yeah. And I like when people like this write in because we're speaking right? To the people that were like, that people are making fun of and hypotheticals.

[Jordana Abraham]

He's here.

[Jared Freid]

He's a real person.

[Jordana Abraham]

This is.

[Jared Freid]

He's here. He's right at our doorstep. We're speaking right to him. I think he's doing the right things by listening to this podcast. That's why when he wrote oh, I wonder where you. She's just. When do I know if she's just trying to get free meals out of me? Where have you heard that?

[Jordana Abraham]

Right?

[Jared Freid]

You're making me look bad.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah, like, come on, right?

[Jared Freid]

If someone's listening to this podcast, they're like, oh, is that one of Jared's things? No, it's not my thing.

[Jordana Abraham]

Well, all right. We did it.

[Jared Freid]

Until I get a private jet, then.

[Jordana Abraham]

Then maybe these women trying to get on my jet.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

We did it.

[Jared Freid]

We solved dating again. As we do.

[Jordana Abraham]

We'll be back next week.

[Jared Freid]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Betches.