He Won’t Go To Therapy But Says I’m the Problem

Summary

U Up? Podcast

Episode: He Won’t Go To Therapy But Says I’m the Problem

Hosts: Jordana Abraham & Jared Freid

Date: May 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this “Friday Feels” episode, Jordana and Jared dive deep into listener emails, unpacking everything from early-texting “icks” to a marriage breakdown over emotional labor, ambition, and therapy resistance. They share personal anecdotes, candid opinions on modern dating rituals, and their signature mix of humor and insight into the psychology of relationships. The main focus: How do you know when a relationship is salvageable versus fundamentally incompatible—especially when one partner refuses therapy and puts the blame elsewhere?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Birthday Timing & Seasonal Life Changes

(00:32–07:44)

• Jordana and Jared muse about the optimal timing for having babies and reflect on sentimental associations with birthdays during different times of year.
• Discussion about whether growing up with a winter vs. summer birthday shapes your experience or expectations.
• Quote (Jordana, 04:41):
  “To have [your birthday] as an island in the middle of... February 21st, a really bad, depressing day—that’s something positive in the darkness of winter.”

2. Evolving Social Tech & Group Dynamics

(06:56–11:52)

• Remembering the nostalgia of email chains, Facebook events, and how group communication tools shaped social life before today’s mix of DMs and group chats.
• Jared credits group emails as where he started honing his comedic voice.
• Quote (Jared, 07:44):
  “When someone would come back to me individually and go, that was hilarious...I felt it through my veins.”

3. Comedy, Social Media, and the Creative “Marketing Major”

(09:41–11:52)

• The changing landscape for comedians; needing business savvy is a must now.
• Stand-up as a lazy drop-out’s job turned marketing gig.
• Quote (Jared, 10:41):
  “Stand-up comedians… especially, are: How do I creatively get out of doing the homework due today? Every one of them is the same.”

4. Modern Dating Dynamics: “Ick” or Insight?

(22:32–33:05)

• Listener describes texting with a new match who quickly starts with “babe” and “wish you were here” talk before meeting; she’s turned off.
• Discussion about the perils of too much pre-date texting, “playing boyfriend,” and whether these are genuine red flags.
  • Is pre-date banter revealing, or just too much too fast?
  • They warn about drawing premature conclusions from “icks” that are better viewed as simple incompatibility, not objective flaws.
• Quote (Jared, 29:12):
  “This is him showing you his personality. You don’t like it—it doesn’t mean it’s bad, it just means… you don’t like it.”
• Quote (Jordana, 31:39):
  “Her shock is what’s annoying me about the email… I have more respect for her than this fake play she’s doing for me.”

Best Advice

(32:43, Jared):
“I wouldn’t go on this date the minute ‘wish you were here with me’ comes up. That’s not really where I’m at.”

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5. Main Listener Email: When Therapy Is a Dealbreaker

(35:04–56:37)

• A 21-year-old newlywed describes a deteriorating marriage: emotional labor imbalances, her husband’s ambition and defensiveness, and his flat refusal to try therapy (“I don’t believe in it”).
• Debate about marrying young: whether most partners simply grow in different directions, and how both self-blame and blame-shifting create a toxic dynamic.
• Comparison of male DJ/influencer ambition to women’s influencer culture, highlighting the intersection of personal pursuits and relationship needs.
• Discussion about whether relationships can be saved when only one partner is willing to seek outside help.

Notable Quotes:

• Jared (44:29):
  “This is why they don’t really recommend people get married that young... you’re not necessarily who you are going to be.”
• Jordana (46:19):
  “She wrote this email beautifully—no one could deny it. And someone could look at him and go, you’re just giving up on someone willing to make your pursuits part of their life.”
• Jared (48:10):
  “It takes two people to be invested in making it work, especially at this age...he’s kind of like, I’d rather just find someone who’s more similar to me.”
• Jared on Therapy (54:17):
  “She tried for therapy. When he says no to therapy, he’s not interested in making it work.”
• Discussion on Men & Therapy (54:48–55:15, Jordana):
  “Sometimes it feels like therapy is just this ongoing, never-ending work in progress...there’s no clear process, ‘the house is done, we did it’—that doesn’t generally present itself.”

6. Broader Reflections & Gendered Relationship Patterns

(50:30–53:34)

• As people age, the process shifts: mature relationships demand more self-knowledge, less “learning as you go.”
• Prompt: Why do older men date younger women? Is it about molding someone to an existing life, or safety in predictability?
• Quote (Jordana, 53:12):
  “Female 30 is male 40...there are things we’re both ready for.”

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Memorable Moments

• DJ Stereotype Riff (36:24–41:26): The hosts riff on the contemporary cliché of ambitious hustler guys becoming DJs as a way to justify a party lifestyle into adulthood—a pitch-perfect satirical moment.

• On Men and Therapy (54:26–55:57):
  Jared and Jordana dissect why some men see therapy as vague or futile, while women see it as a tool for change.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Seasonal Birthdays & Life Changes: 00:32–07:44
• Social Tech Nostalgia & Comedy Origins: 06:56–11:52
• Dating App “Icks” & Pre-Date Banter: 22:32–33:05
• Marriage Breakdown/Refusal of Therapy: 35:04–56:37
• Men, Therapy, and Relationship Endings: 54:17–56:37

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Early “icks” in dating often reveal dealbreakers or incompatibility, not something “wrong” with you or them.
• When one partner flatly refuses therapy or outside help, the relationship is likely unsalvageable.
• Marriage or partnership at a very young age often means people grow in different directions, which is not always anyone’s “fault.”
• Personal growth, gender expectations, and ambition often clash in young marriages—neither side is fully wrong or right.

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Summary in the U Up? Tone

Candid, witty, and a little irreverent—Jordana and Jared tackle the real stuff behind texts, exes, ambition, and therapy refusal. If he won’t go to therapy and says you’re the problem, you probably already have your answer. Don’t stick around waiting for a DJ to spin you a different emotional track.

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For More Dating Commentary, Polls, and Bonus Content:
Follow @u.up.podcast on Instagram.
Watch full episodes on YouTube.

Transcript

[Jordana Abraham]

Focus features in Blumhouse Obsession.

[Jared Freid]

When I have a crush on a guy no one knows.

[Jordana Abraham]

Be careful. I wish Nikki loved me more than anyone in the entire world. Who you wish for? Obsession is 96% fresh on rotten Tomatoes.

[Jared Freid]

I love you so, so, so, so much.

[Jordana Abraham]

It's blood soaked nightmare fuel. What kind of spills you put on her? You have been warned. Obsession. Rated R under 17. Animated without parent only theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby. I went on this game sketch, my ex show.

[Jared Freid]

They sketched your ex?

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah, but I.

[Jared Freid]

What did you do with it?

[Jordana Abraham]

So I did Emily because she is technically my ex. Oh. So that was.

[Jared Freid]

It would have been way funnier if you did, like, a real ex, but

[Jordana Abraham]

there was no way in hell I was going to do that. This.

[Jared Freid]

You describe her and then they draw her.

[Jordana Abraham]

And they draw her. In the end, I revealed that we're dating now.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

As like, the fun turn. It's just funny that, like. Yeah, I don't want to take that risk of talking about an ex and saying what they look like.

[Jared Freid]

Of course you don't. That's like, only your greatest fear.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

So is someone retaliating against you?

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. I don't want to be in a slap contest and go first on the slap.

[Jared Freid]

I would be flattered if someone, like, drew me to one of those things.

[Jordana Abraham]

I'd be like, thought of you to be drawn.

[Jared Freid]

Thought of me. Yes, I would. I would rather be hated than forgotten about in these scenarios.

[Jordana Abraham]

Well, I think every man man would rather be forgotten about.

[Jared Freid]

Hello and welcome back to the Friday Feels episode of the UF podcast.

[Jordana Abraham]

I'm Jordana Abraham and I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here with you, Jordana. How are you? What's going on? How you feeling on a Friday?

[Jared Freid]

I feel pretty good. I feel like I'm getting, like, my postpartum groove back, which is okay. Just in time, I think. I'm not sure if it's that or if it's like the weather.

[Jordana Abraham]

It's got to be all of it.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, I think it's all of it. I feel like I'm, like, coming back into the world and it. It's nice. There's parts that I, like, feel a little weird about, but most of all, it's nice.

[Jordana Abraham]

Would you suggest your time frame? Not the, you know, the, The. The baby stuff, you know, when you got.

[Jared Freid]

Take out all the sad.

[Jordana Abraham]

Take out the sad shit, but like, when you got pregnant. If you could go back knowing how it ended up. Like, if you could suggest A calendar date to get pregnant?

[Jared Freid]

Yes.

[Jordana Abraham]

Would you suggest your date? Because now that I think about it, right now if you're living in the northeast, we are starting to. Spring has sprung and it's staying lighter longer. The weather's getting nicer. You're probably feeling as you said, like you're shedding. Maybe the baby weight type of thing you're getting. Does that feel like this is the time frame?

[Jared Freid]

I think there's something nice about that. I've heard people say that they wouldn't want a winter baby. Okay. I mean besides having giving birth in the worst month of the year as you. As you know.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. No one wants to be born in February.

[Jared Freid]

I think. I think it's like a little bit of a double edged sword. I'm happy that like there was not much going on that I felt like I was missing. There's not really like much exciting shit going on in January and February.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

But it can feel like it. We had so many snowstorms this year that I did feel a little bit. I think I've said this before. Like it felt a little bit like the Shining, especially with the twin girls.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

Like I was like kind of locked in and like, you know, there's like snow piling up outside and I'm sort of trapped in this house. There was like some moments of feeling that especially when you kind of like look like and aren't that mobile. I think there was like a little bit of that.

[Jordana Abraham]

I just shake my head. I, I didn't think you look like. But yes, you did look like.

[Jared Freid]

Thank you. Thank you. I felt. Well it's like I was you know, wearing sweatpants every day and not really like changing out of my pajamas until right like 3pm So I think maybe that would have been a little less intense if it were nice outside.

[Jordana Abraham]

It could have been I guess pros and cons because I'm hearing what you're saying but like there's some people I know someone that was like I would never want a summer baby or be pregnant over the summer because you're hot and sweaty and really tough and you're missing out on things going on.

[Jared Freid]

That's true. Yeah. Well that's something. The flip side, overall, I've never done it the other way but I, I think it was a good time of year.

[Jordana Abraham]

You're happy with it.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah. I wonder if they're going to be like annoyed with their birthdays though. Cuz I don't feel like that's a fun birth month.

[Jordana Abraham]

I think it's Great.

[Jared Freid]

January, February, birthday. You liked your birthday month growing up?

[Jordana Abraham]

My birthday month was good because it always fell during vacation. So I have a lot of, like, it felt like, you know, I would go to Florida with my family to go stay at my GR. President's Week thing. That was nice. I do think also the breaking up of the winter, like, as February 21st, I admit, really bad, depressing day as. But to have that as an island in the middle of a.

[Jared Freid]

There's something positive.

[Jordana Abraham]

Something positive in the darkness of the winter, like, to give. Let you break it up, have a reason to go to dinner, have a reason to take a trip, you know, like.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

I think there's something good about that. Is the summer. You kind of get folded into the summer.

[Jared Freid]

Right. People have other fun going on. That's nothing to do with you.

[Jordana Abraham]

Your birthday can be a holiday unto its. Unto itself, you know, so, yeah, maybe.

[Jared Freid]

Maybe this is the way to go.

[Jordana Abraham]

I. But I generally don't care about my birthday, so, like, I. Maybe that's another part of it. Like, I'm not really.

[Jared Freid]

Well, did you. When you were, like, in college, were you doing stuff, like, when you were younger, going out?

[Jordana Abraham]

Never really had. Yeah, it's my birthday. Let's go out. But, like, not, like, what's the plan for my birthday? Like, I've never.

[Jared Freid]

Did you ever do, like, a Facebook invitation to, like, your birthday? I'm at a bar. I'm having maybe people at this bar. I feel like that was, like, a very. Out of college.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. One time, I think I did, like,

[Jared Freid]

a breakfast, a birthday breakfast.

[Jordana Abraham]

I think I moved into a new apartment, and it was my own place.

[Jared Freid]

Like a drunk brunch.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. And it was like, I'll cook a bunch of stuff and get bagels, and we can start at my place. I had, like, a frittata that I made in, like, a big pan.

[Jared Freid]

He won. Enormous fritta.

[Jordana Abraham]

One Enormous. Like, it was like a breakfast baked.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

Thing. And I wanted to use my new apartment. Had no furniture in it, so I was like, oh, I can fit a lot of people in here, so come here. Then we'll go out on the Upper east side and we'll kind of, like, make our way around the town and get up.

[Jared Freid]

Did you make a Facebook invitation for it?

[Jordana Abraham]

I probably did.

[Jared Freid]

Wow. Yeah, I miss the days of a Facebook invitation.

[Jordana Abraham]

Oh, people got cocky on those Facebook invitations.

[Jared Freid]

Those were, like, all the rage in college.

[Jordana Abraham]

I mean, it's literally what I do with my shows. Assemble. The group chat is like a version of a Facebook Invitation. It would be like. Cuz they would have these writeups. It be like, assemble the group chat. You are going to have the drunkest day of your life. And guess what, it's Lindsay's 28th birthday and you're going to get up and we're going to have. Yeah, you'd have a whole dissertation written into it. Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Those were the days.

[Jordana Abraham]

Those were the days.

[Jared Freid]

Well, you know what was weird about that time too is there was no. Like you couldn't send a group text.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

Which is weird. You take that for granted now that you can just text a whole bunch of people in one message. You couldn't do that until like the iPhone, like later.

[Jordana Abraham]

It is interesting that group email was before group text.

[Jared Freid]

Yes.

[Jordana Abraham]

And I don't know if my brain really sees one leading to the other. Like, you know, when people ask me why did I start comedy? I would always tell the story I've told. And the story I truly believe to be my story is that I'd be on group emails with people. Like, and it was like G Chat.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

And I'd be at work and I would be on a group email. And the group email would start on a Monday or Tuesday and we'd be talking about last weekend and all the things that happened. And then it would be also getting ahead of what's for next weekend.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

It would be this group of people in their 20s who everyone's single, everyone's looking to hang out, you got a little bit of money in your pocket cause you started a new job and where are we going? What are we doing? Doing? And then I'd be on these group emails and I would like write back and make fun of everyone. Right.

[Jared Freid]

Well, it's a chance to practice your craft. Right?

[Jordana Abraham]

Totally. And I would. And when someone would go off of the group email and like come back to me individually and go, that was hilarious. I'm dying at my desk. I felt it through my veins. Like I felt it.

[Jared Freid]

What a lost art form. You know, you were just talking before the show about like you want like technology a little bit or you want like a little thing a little bit.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

I feel like we kind of had the perfect amount of like using technology to facilitate social connections, but not so intensely that it's sort of destroyed ever. Like not now. You don't have to get contacted through replying to an Instagram story, but you had to like the, the reply to an email is an easy way to talk to people, but not as easy as replying to an Instagram story.

[Jordana Abraham]

Totally. There's a, you know, the toothpaste out of the tube. Like, you know, that's every slippery slope argument is like, we just want this, but then it will lead to all of this.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

You know, like if we get group emails, that's great because it will connect us all. But it's going to lead to a version of social media that feels disconnected. Like, and you go, well, I want that, but I don't want that.

[Jared Freid]

Can't stop the. Can't stop the. The bot. The Pandora's box.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. This is the story of life. I wish it was just that way forever. And it's just not how it works. Like, listen, I wish social media for me, I'm like, I was kind of cool with like Instagram, a little bit of Twitter and I. That's where I got my I. I could do some jokes on Twitter and then I could see if it would made sense as like a tweet I would put on Instagram. I'd send it to you. Remember that? Yeah, I'd send it to you. I'd be like, this feels. Bet you would you put this on batches. Can you put it on your platform so that I can get a following?

[Jared Freid]

And we did.

[Jordana Abraham]

It was kind of my business plan, you know, and I. And then to a certain extent it worked.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

But then you have to keep changing. You have to keep evolving. Like, you know, right now, you know, V and I work together on J Train. I noticed that like podcast clips for J Train do better here and not as great here.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, that always be hustling, always.

[Jordana Abraham]

So now my Facebook, I have a Facebook fan page. It's grown and then it was like kind of not growing and I'm like, the standup clips do way better on Facebook and YouTube. I guess I'm just going to like poor standup clips. So now YouTube and Facebook are only standup clips. I don't, I, I see the numbers reflect that. It, it's gone up even in this week. But I'm like, man, this is so much more. Like, I'm now doing the job of the social media manager and the comedian and the. My job, you standup comedian used to be for lazy losers, dropouts. And now there's this like marketing major who's taking over stand up comedy. And you can tell, like, there's really funny people who can't do that. Like, it's kind of the sad part.

[Jared Freid]

Like probably the funnier, the funniest people,

[Jordana Abraham]

probably there are comedians that I know,

[Jared Freid]

they feel like they work against Each other. Those two parts of your brain totally

[Jordana Abraham]

stand up comedians especially are. How do I figure out how to creatively get out of doing the homework that is due today That's a stand up comedian. Every one of them is the same to me. None of them are, yes, I have the homework and I'm prepared for next week. And.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

And then I see those people get

[Jared Freid]

successful and you're like, well, it's all about timing.

[Jordana Abraham]

I mean, you just said you were a fan of one of those people.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

So, I mean, that person is a marketing major.

[Jared Freid]

You think?

[Jordana Abraham]

I know.

[Jared Freid]

Okay, well, it works.

[Jordana Abraham]

Jokes are marketing 101. But I'm saying, you know, there's people that I can tell just don't have that. I have a little bit of both, I think. Sometimes I get worried. I'm like, I'm like, don't be marketing major. Don't be that.

[Jared Freid]

Well, I mean that that makes you money.

[Jordana Abraham]

Well, it's helped me because I do have a. A business sense, I think, a little bit, which is why we're sitting here today. But I hope I have the stand up thing too. But, you know, we're. We're not all things, you know, And I say that humbly. Like, I'm like, I hope I'm as good as I want to be.

[Jared Freid]

I think we should get rid of all the platforms except for Facebook.

[Jordana Abraham]

Bring us back.

[Jared Freid]

Go back to Facebook, which, by the

[Jordana Abraham]

way, all fake news. Well, my.

[Jared Freid]

The whole thing, my whole Facebook, it's all. Is all like AI generated, like celebrity tabloid things that are not true, that are doctored to look like someone's engaged or had a baby.

[Jordana Abraham]

I saw one that. It was like every. There's one that comes up on my fan page. I don't follow anyone on my fan page except for you up the podcast.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

So I just get this, like, they. Who they think I am, they think I'm like a gay Republican. That's basically what I think they think I am. So I get the View. Lots of so and so. Got in a fight on the View with Whoopi Goldberg.

[Jared Freid]

It sounds like stuff your mom would like too.

[Jordana Abraham]

Oh, my God. And it's like in the picture is like a real looking picture of, like a celebrity, like, going at Whippy Goldberg's neck. Like it's like, crazy. The other day my dad made a comment there was a guy. So my dad has a friend who went to like a party, and the friend sent a picture of him with this person we know from our past to not get into two Specifics. And that person I would describe as someone who's had trouble throughout their life. Yeah, I would. Troubled. Troubled soul.

[Jared Freid]

I asked my brothers if they knew them. Like, oh, I forgot. Who was, like, messaging you? It was a girl. You were like, can you ask. You're like, I think they know your brothers. Can you ask your brothers? I asked my brothers. They were like, I think she was troubled.

[Jordana Abraham]

Troubled is such a dark.

[Jared Freid]

Yes.

[Jordana Abraham]

Kind way to really go dark on someone.

[Jared Freid]

It's mean, but it's not mean.

[Jordana Abraham]

No. You're being caring.

[Jared Freid]

You're being pitied.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. You're being told, so the. This guy who. And I'm like, I wonder how he's doing. And my dad goes, great. He's doing great. He's married, great dad, good father, kids, goes to the gym, good friends. I go, do you talk to him every day? What's. I go, you must know a lot about this guy. She. He goes, no, I see on Facebook, I go, you don't think you're getting, like, a curated version of this person and you don't know how? You're just assuming they're doing better than they've ever been known to do. He goes, yeah, and he loves Trump and he loves his family and he loves his kids. And I'm, like, listening to this. I'm like, I think he, like, likes that. He puts out that he likes his political leanings. Like, I think my dad's, like, almost like a fan that this guy putting it all is putting it all out there. And he's got a family and the kids, and he's doing great. So look at how wrong they are about the Trump people is kind of. I think the connection. I'm, like, trying to, like, figure out what's going on in his brain. I go, wow, that. You've really made quite an assumption from their Facebook. A day goes by, my dad goes, I guess I was wrong. He's divorced. It doesn't take a deeper dive. He went and asked how the guy was doing, and I was like, you. I go, don't you think it's weird that you made this huge assumption? That feels a little emotional. He hung up on me.

[Jared Freid]

So, like, well, it's. It's funny as it pertains to that. It's like, people are so worried about AI, but, like, the only people who really believe the AI stuff are the boomers.

[Jordana Abraham]

I would disagree there.

[Jared Freid]

Apparently, like, Gen Z and the younger generations, they, like, easily know how to spot stuff much better than the older generation.

[Jordana Abraham]

I think there's a Different version of it on different platforms. I disagree.

[Jared Freid]

You disagree?

[Jordana Abraham]

I see it on threads. Threads being the best example. That's the Instagram version of Twitter. You see people that are like, they'll say the most divisive things and then end it with a question. And it's just all bots. Well, it's, It's a bot thread, okay. Being answered by Gen Z or Gen Millennials being like, can you believe people even think this way anymore? I'm like, you're doing. You were beta.

[Jared Freid]

We're. Well, where are the olds? Just like the.

[Jordana Abraham]

Meet the new boss. Same as the old bus. I think we're all. I, I, I, I hear what you're saying, but I, I think I was

[Jared Freid]

like, maybe the boomers will just die and then every. All our problems will be solved.

[Jordana Abraham]

No, we'll find Gen Z. They're all proud boys. Like, all the guys. Eight women are in the manosphere.

[Jared Freid]

Like, I don't get fed that stuff, but I believe.

[Jordana Abraham]

I don't know if I get fed it as much as, like, I don't know. All right, let's do the emails. Hey, listen, if you want to hear this, these pithy comments on the road I am doing, stand up all over this great country of ours, La. When does this come out? May 8th. Tomorrow night. Tomorrow night Los Angeles. Sun will come out the sun will come out tomorrow Tomorrow Bet your bottom dollar that tomorrow you'll get laughs the sun will come.

[Jared Freid]

Okay, we're doing another verse.

[Jordana Abraham]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Jared Freid]

Have you ever been in a play at school?

[Jordana Abraham]

I was in a play.

[Jared Freid]

What was your role?

[Jordana Abraham]

I think I was like, Santa in the play or some, like, it was like.

[Jared Freid]

What play was it?

[Jordana Abraham]

I mean, it was like, we did. I don't know. This is like a long time ago.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

Or an elf.

[Jared Freid]

Maybe you should juke Broadway.

[Jordana Abraham]

Listen, I'm still waiting on my call. What's that show that they keep rotating in Comedians? There's a show on Broadway right now where every few weeks they get new people. Oh, Mary. Is that what it is? No, no, no.

[Jared Freid]

I feel like you would make fun of the theater kids, though.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah, I make fun of everybody, okay? I'm an equal opportunist.

[Jared Freid]

Fair, right? Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

I like to think, make fun of myself. Make sure the broad, the jerks, the dweebs, the, the jocks, the, the, The Republicans. The Republicans, the Democrats, all of them. All these idiots. La. Jacksonville, Austin, Cleveland, West Hampton Beach, Miami, Foxwoods, Portland, Maine. If any of those speak to you, come to the show. I'm also going to be doing the book tour. The book tour will hit these cities. Are you ready?

[Jared Freid]

I'm excited to see you walk into a Barnes and Noble.

[Jordana Abraham]

Can't wait. I'll be. I'll be lost. I've never been in one. I'll be at Books and Books in Miami. I'll be at the 92nd Street Y in New York. I will be in Boston, Philly, Chicago at the bookseller Denver, Tattered Cover and LA will also be included in that at some point. So walking Red flag is. Ah, it's going to be out in a month. Pre order please. I bought the shirt.

[Jared Freid]

Oh wow.

[Jordana Abraham]

New York Times bestseller.

[Jared Freid]

New. Oh yes. So you again. To save Jared from the mental breakdown, you need to do it.

[Jordana Abraham]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is mental health awareness month. So consider this your official check in. How are you actually doing? And I don't mean the I'm fine version. If you've been feeling overwhelmed or stuck lately, therapy can be worth a shot because you don't have to go through it all on your own. I would say BetterHelp is an amazing asset to anyone who wants to put their toe in the water of therapy. These are licensed therapists who can give you the tools you need to get get through whatever you're going through. And also you can switch at any time. No waiting room, no making an appointment that's like four miles away. No, no. You can do Better Help at your own leisure, so to speak. It really makes therapy accessible, which I love. With over 30,000 fully licensed therapists, Better Help is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. They do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnair helps identify your needs and preferences. And if you aren't happy with your match, as I said before, switch to a different therapist. And anytime from their tailored wrecks, you don't have to be on this journey alone. Find support and have someone with you in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] UUP that's better. HP.com UUP Skims is genuinely one of

[Jared Freid]

those brands I will never stop talking about. The way they just get fit and fabric is unlike anything else out there and they keep raising the bar. Their new cotton collection is the latest proof of that and honestly, it might be my new favorite thing they've ever made. I love skims. I've been trying their new underwear collection and it is so, so, so comfortable. And for me Having comfortable underwear is like the number one thing because you're in it all day and if you're, like adjusting at it or if it's kind of like pulling at you, it really just ruins your ability to focus on anything else you're doing. So to me, doing well at work, weirdly, strangely tied back to how comfortable my underwear is. And Skims has the best, softest, and most utilitarian underwear. It's like great. They have kinds for every different shape and they're all serving a specific purpose. And no matter what they're doing, you are looking good in them, but you're also really, really comfortable, which is a super hard combination. I also have their cotton bras, which are so, so, so comfy. And, you know, I also love knowing where everything is and their bras are perfect for that. They make me feel like I can go about my day and not have to think about my underwear and bras, which is honestly the whole point. Shop everyday cotton and all my favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and make sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

[Jordana Abraham]

This episode is sponsored by Instacart. If you actually care about what ends up on your table, grocery shopping can become a whole thing. And finding the time to do it right is its own challenge. With Instacart, you don't have to compromise on quality for convenience. You can be specific about what you want, communicate directly with your shopper, and get groceries selected with the same care you take yourself. I love what Instacart is doing. I love that you can free up your day by taking one of your chores and making it so you have an assistant. You have someone to go to the grocery store for. You find the things you love and I think the most important part, direct communication. Truly, the convenience cannot be beat. With just a few taps, you can shop from your favorite stores and have quality groceries and house sold essentials carefully selected and ready for pickup or delivered to your door in as fast as 30 minutes. Instacart helps take care of delivering the things you need with quality you deserve so that you're free to take care of life. Download the Instacart app now and get groceries just how you like.

[Jared Freid]

All right, let's get into our show.

[Jordana Abraham]

Let's do it. Okay, let's jump right in.

[Jared Freid]

Let's jump right in. I'll do an icky. Let's do an Ikea Picky.

[Jordana Abraham]

All Right. Hit me.

[Jared Freid]

Hey, J. And Jay. And the rest of the team.

[Jordana Abraham]

Whoa.

[Jared Freid]

The rest of the team. I got a shout out. Okay. I love you both. I went to Jared's show in Durham, November by myself, sat in the front row and I was the first in line for pictures. Nerd. I know.

[Jordana Abraham]

I love my nerds.

[Jared Freid]

Do you?

[Jordana Abraham]

What up, my nerd?

[Jared Freid]

I am 34, female and I'm texting with a guy who I matched with a date on a dating app yesterday. He's 38. We had easy conversation so far. He asked if he could call me last night, so I said sure and we had a good conversation.

[Jordana Abraham]

Love it.

[Jared Freid]

Then today we're texting and I said that today was the day I got my dog 11 years ago. And he said, still plenty more good years left, Babe. Which would have been. I don't know if that's true, but which would have been fine. Except that, I mean, is it.

[Jordana Abraham]

I don't know which one weird direction for him.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, right.

[Jordana Abraham]

I would just been like, happy Birthday.

[Jared Freid]

Eleven's like not young, right?

[Jordana Abraham]

Still a lot of good years left before you have to start taking care of it in a weird way. Babe. Still a lot of good years left before you have to start putting pills in their food. Babe.

[Jared Freid]

Babe. Hope he doesn't meet your grandma. Right. Which would have been fine except that he included babe. Big ick for someone who I haven't met. I responded with babe. Lol to show that I'm not into it.

[Jordana Abraham]

Oh.

[Jared Freid]

Later in the conversation he said that he wishes I were there with him and I said lol. Smooth operator.

[Jordana Abraham]

Okay.

[Jared Freid]

We have not even met yet. Both of these ick me out. It feels like he's trying to play boyfriend. I would expect this sort of thing with younger guys, but not a 30 year old. But not a 38 year old divorced dad. I will note that prior to these things being said, we scheduled a date for four days from now. I'm physically attracted to him and he checks a lot of other boxes, but I worry that these little things show a lack of self awareness. Am I being picky and I should just shut the up and go on the date or are the X things I should take into consideration before going on the date? Thanks for all you do. Just be cool.

[Jordana Abraham]

I like this email. I appreciate that she came to the show in Durham. I hope her dog is doing well and has a lot of good years left. Yes, babe. Babe. I. I think she said that they had. It's very important the details of this email where she says we Made a date for four days later, and then this stuff started happening. Yeah, that's. That's the. The course of events. Men and women matters.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

And then we start texting and talking, getting comfortable. I think there is a shelf life for. Much like your dog is going to die. This match on a dating app dies as well.

[Jared Freid]

What do you mean dies? Like the. I meant to.

[Jordana Abraham]

Not the momentum. The. Where else do we go but text each other as if we know each other? There's a little bit of like. This is why I saw some guy wearing rings that a Captain Jack Sparrow would wear, saying that he doesn't do dating coffee dates. He's like, I don't do. I saw a clip from Girls gotta eat.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

I don't do coffee dates. And he's wearing these rings. And you're like, jared, why are you bringing up his rings? Well, his point for no coffee dates is that he doesn't want that to insinuate to a woman that a coffee date would say that we're not taking this seriously and all that. And I was like, well, you're willing to wear costume jewelry that might turn off a woman, but you won't do a coffee date. And it's like anything you do would turn off someone, and you guys have to enjoy that. You do it. So a coffee date works for some, doesn't work for others. Do you have the.

[Jared Freid]

The point is to turn some people.

[Jordana Abraham]

The point is to turn people off. Don't you think it's crazy to be wearing a ring this large?

[Jared Freid]

What's this guy's name?

[Jordana Abraham]

He's Captain Jack Sparrow. I would never ask a woman who I'm like, wow. Like, she's gorgeous. She seems really co. Like, I could see some potential here. I would never risk asking her on a coffee date as a first date, because you want a man that wants to impress you off the bat. Right. So if I'm going coffee, that means that I'm unsure if I even find you, like, attractive, in my opinion, because it's kind of like, I need to feel this out coffee days. I need to feel this out because I'm unsure if I want to invest more time, energy, money.

[Jared Freid]

I just. I don't know. It communicates to me. You're just at that end of it. I agree. You know, you're totally like, I'll spend $3 on this.

[Jordana Abraham]

I 100% agree. If you feel that way. That if you're taking the money someone spends on your first date.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

As a symbol of what you're worth. I think that's more your problem than theirs.

[Jared Freid]

I agree. I think you should spend less money on a first date. You don't even know the person.

[Jordana Abraham]

We're just, I, I, I think it shows a value of your own coffee.

[Jared Freid]

On a fifth date, that's if you

[Jordana Abraham]

go from dinner to coffee. There's something a little off about that. Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

A first date, I don't think anyone should be try overly trying to impress anyone. You don't even know if you like them.

[Jordana Abraham]

We're just trying to figure this out. And it's a value of your own time, energy, spirit, whatever. Like, I, I just want to, like, see if we're cool.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

And the attractive thing, I'm more attracted to someone, so I'll ask them on a better date. Like, I just think that's like a fraudulent take.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

You're not, if you're attracted to someone, you want to get to know them quicker and see if this is going to work out. So, like, I do think to bring it back to this email where she's like, you've already texted so much. Like, at this point, I think a coffee date would have made sense. Now there's extenuating circumstances, whatever that come up, that you can't plan a date and it goes long, but the longer you go and start getting into these, hey, it's my dog's birthday. You've texted about too much with someone you don't know. And at that point you did kind of smoke them out into this babe talk. Now he has the date. You're still texting. He's like, let me throw in some babes. And there's, and, and a couple of those things so I can make sure that we feel like we know each other more than we do. And now we're going on this date that's four dates out. I got the date planned. Now let me go into babe talk. It just, the order of operations is all off here and I don't think you can come back from that.

[Jared Freid]

Well, I think to me it's more like she's getting to know his personality and she doesn't like him.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

The benefit of talking this much before the date is now she knows he's kind of like a cheesy babe guy in that, like, early way.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

To me, it's like, this is why, this is like the benefit of not having a date. A date until four days from now. You're, this is why people talk on the talk before going on a date so that they can get a sense if They're. She says, I'm attracted to him, and he checks a lot of other boxes. This is him showing you his personality.

[Jordana Abraham]

You don't like it, right?

[Jared Freid]

It doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it does. You don't like it.

[Jordana Abraham]

I take exception with her. Lol. We haven't even met yet. Stop being so stupid. It, like, like, I just. I, I, you need to stop that. We haven't even met yet. Of course. Yeah. You're an adult who. She doesn't like that you don't like it. It's not. We haven't even met yet. I don't know what he's doing. You know what he's doing.

[Jared Freid]

Someone likes that.

[Jordana Abraham]

Someone like it. I don't like him. We haven't even met yet. I don't need the. I don't need the.

[Jared Freid]

The.

[Jordana Abraham]

What is that called? The.

[Jared Freid]

If she liked, if she went out with him, she liked him. She might.

[Jordana Abraham]

If you had met him and he was like, babe, get me a coffee. You know, while you're up. Up. Oh, we, We've only been on one day. He's calling me babe. Okay. You don't like it, right?

[Jared Freid]

You don't like him, right? You don't. I think that's the whole, like, I think women are very scared to, like, again, get rid of an option who checks all the boxes and is physically attractive. But, like, this is why we talked. This is why you should have some banter with someone before you get on a date. This date isn't worth going on. You don't like his personality.

[Jordana Abraham]

He also said, I wish you were in bed with me. Is that what I wish you were?

[Jared Freid]

I wish you were here with me.

[Jordana Abraham]

I wish you were here with me right then.

[Jared Freid]

That's a different kind of person. It's. A person has a different personality than someone who wouldn't say that.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. And it's also someone like, you only go up from there.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

You don't go back from there. So what he's doing is. Data's made. Hey. Now the ship is heading towards Date Island. I want to make sure she knows what she's gonna get on Date island, which is a guy who would love for her to be laying with him in a place that's private.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

So he's telling you everything, the whole idea. Well, we haven't even met yet. Like, I, I you. Okay. Like, I don't, I don't understand.

[Jared Freid]

I mean, I think it's okay to be. I think it's okay to be turned off.

[Jordana Abraham]

By that turned off is different than acting stupid.

[Jared Freid]

Right?

[Jordana Abraham]

Turned off and then writing us to us being like can you believe. I can believe every thing that's written in here. You know like she's asking, she wants us to be shocked.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

Oh my God. I thought it's certain age. I'm not shocked by his age. I'm not shocked by what he wrote. I'm not shocked that you've never met. I'm not shocked by anything. I think you need to stop being so shocked too. Like her shock is what's annoying me about the email. Like I, I like her. She was at my show. I'm sure she's great. I'm sure she's not a nerd as she puts it. Like all of these things. Like I have more respect for her than this fake play she's doing for me.

[Jared Freid]

Right. Well she needs to build again. She needs to villainize him and she needs you to say this guy is a cheesy loser.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

Because it does it. You can feel like a sense of self doubt in not going out with someone who you think is attractive, who checks all the boxes, went to a good school, has a good job, you know, from the right place, whatever it is, all the boxes that individuals would have and he's attractive and she's like I'm, I'm not, I don't like his personality. Do I have permission to not go out with him?

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. And I think it's different. I think if you want to language it, it's different to go. I'm disappointed that a 38 year old man with two kids is trying to get in bed with me. That's way different than I can't believe a 38 year old man with two kids is trying to fuck me. Yeah, your dad, your grandpa, your uncle, they all want to fuck too. Not you. I'm just saying generally. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like this idea that like oh at a certain age men get a diploma and put on their hat and go I'm mature now. No, they're all the fucking same.

[Jared Freid]

Well she, right. She thought she had like someone who was not was looking for a serious relationship.

[Jordana Abraham]

You thought wrong.

[Jared Freid]

Wrong.

[Jordana Abraham]

Move on. I wouldn't go on this date the minute wish you were here with me. Ah, that's not really where I'm at. I'm sorry to let you know but like it might feel like this date is a little bit.

[Jared Freid]

Not feeling we're match. Not feeling like we're a match.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

Ready to soundtrack your summer with red Bull Summer All Day Play. You choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit RedBull.com BrightSummerAhead to learn more. See you this summer. This episode is brought to you by Prime Obsession is in session. And this summer, Prime Originals have everything you want. Steamy romances, irresistible love stories.

[Jordana Abraham]

And the book to screen favorites you've

[Jared Freid]

already read twice off campus. Elle every year after the love Hypothesis. Sterling point and more. Slow burns, second chances chemistry you can feel through the screen. Your next obsession is waiting.

[Jordana Abraham]

Watch only on Prime Girl.

[Jared Freid]

Winter is so last season. And now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress. Those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. All right, let's do one more.

[Jordana Abraham]

Uupetches.com. oh, we have a thorough one. Did I sound like a dick? I didn't mean to be a dick. No, I didn't mean to call out, you know, Johnny Ringstone. I'm just saying again, it's just like this whole idea of like, I think we get too ahead of ourselves. A coffee date's great. Let's get it together. The app is quick. It's called Tinder because it was a little, little tiny.

[Jared Freid]

You don't know this person, right? You're getting to know that little something.

[Jordana Abraham]

Let's see if that's. That's a flame, right? Let's see if it could be a flame. I'm a 21 year old female, recently married. This will be as relatable as a fucking hot dog cake. And I feel, I feel like my relationship has slowly broken down in a way I don't fully understand. In the beginning, I was exactly the person my husband says he fell in love with. Supportive, affectionate, excited about him and fully there for his goals. And I truly showed up that way. But from early on, there were issues. He didn't fully trust me, couldn't, could be overly protective. And during arguments, especially when drinking, he would handle things poorly and then deflect or turn it back on me. Apologies would come later, but only after the damage was already done. There were moments that stuck with me like Christmas, where he crossed a serious boundary and blamed me for it. Over time, I also felt like I was coming second to his music and ambitions. While I was managing everything else. Our home, the day to day, even transportation. I bent my life around him trying to show love. Love. But it. But I didn't feel emotionally supported in return. At the same time, from his perspective, he says he feels like he lost the woman that he fell in love with. He's not from the US and he was raised with a very strong work ethic, being pushed by his father to succeed. And a lot of his identity is tied to discipline, ambition, and building something for himself. Especially with his DJ career.

[Jared Freid]

Why is everyone becoming a DJ? This is like the second email we've gotten with the guy as a. A DJ. Wow, how many DJs does the world need?

[Jordana Abraham]

Enough to make all the women listening a little bit drier. That. Because the minute, you know, the ambition

[Jared Freid]

and you know, he's so ambitious, he's gonna be.

[Jordana Abraham]

Well, there's a strong correlation between hustle bro and dj for some reason. Like this hustle culture of like, I'm gonna go out and boots to the ground, make this happen. This manosphere like idea. I'm go to Miami and do be a man and right play music.

[Jared Freid]

Is being a dj, what is the heterosexual men is what being an influencer is to heterosexual women?

[Jordana Abraham]

I don't know. Because there's female DJs too, you know,

[Jared Freid]

like there's male influencers.

[Jordana Abraham]

I think, I think you're right. There are.

[Jared Freid]

Is it like easy to be a dj, Right?

[Jordana Abraham]

I mean, it must be like as we were talking about before with like marketing versus the art. Like, it must be, it must be like the DJ industry must be like, like considered 95 marketing and like 5% talent.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

In my. I don't know, but like, I know Cipher Sounds, who's a good friend of mine, hilarious comic. He's like Cypher Sounds is like one of the original DJs. Like, he's like, he would be in like, he, he's amongst like the first to do it, you know. So his perspective on this I'm sure would be like, he, I'm sure he looks at a DJ landscape and he sees people with talent and sees people with none. And he kind of knows in the same way, like, I know stand up. So like, who's faking it? And who's doing it.

[Jared Freid]

Right. But I could see DJ also being like one of those things where it's like you, you get like defensive over DJing and you think it's like you say it's very hard work and I'm very hard working and right at my D. And all these other people aren't necessarily. And then the content creator might say the same thing or the influencer might say the same thing.

[Jordana Abraham]

Totally. There's a lot of correlation here. I mean, like, listen, there's same could be said about men going in a stand up, men starting a podcast.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

You know, you think your voice is so great. You think your perspective is so amazing. It's a. It's a douchey endeavor.

[Jared Freid]

As is influencing.

[Jordana Abraham]

As is influencing. Like I think I am stylish enough, beautiful enough.

[Jared Freid]

Right. You know you want to be like me.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

I can tell you what to wear.

[Jordana Abraham]

Totally.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

So like, yeah, the male DJ thing, I don't get it. And my, my playlist kill. Maybe that's it.

[Jared Freid]

You're a good curator of music. I guess.

[Jordana Abraham]

I guess in the same way you

[Jared Freid]

might be a curator of outfits.

[Jordana Abraham]

Anyway, he tells me. Well, I think especially the age 21, like what do I have access to?

[Jared Freid]

Yes.

[Jordana Abraham]

I have access to all the music in the world, you know, and time

[Jared Freid]

to listen to all of it. Time.

[Jordana Abraham]

And then I can just go on YouTube and learn how to DJ and then I don't think you can do that with like finance or maybe you can with like a Robin Hood account.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

If you want to be a day trader. But like I think it'd be harder to sell on people that I have no prior knowledge of the markets.

[Jared Freid]

Well, plus this interacts with your, with your hobbies probably of going out and getting really drunk and partying.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

You're doing a 21 also.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. So I. Access is probably a lot to do with. Okay. He tells me he feels like I have bad energy.

[Jared Freid]

Sounds like something a DJ would say.

[Jordana Abraham]

Totally. That I'm always irritated that I don't support or admire.

[Jared Freid]

It sounds exactly like the Kyle Amanda dynamic.

[Jordana Abraham]

I'm just admire him. Would Kyle say that?

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, I have the whole. This whole season is him being like, you don't really seem like you want to hang out with me.

[Jordana Abraham]

He was right.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah. And the energy thing where like his. His tagline is summer is supposed to be fun, Amanda, not fun.

[Jordana Abraham]

Oh, is that his.

[Jared Freid]

That's like his like catchphrase.

[Jordana Abraham]

Well, I mean, summer is supposed to be fun. Yeah. Well also, this is also like, what makes a man attractive versus, like, an unattractive.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

Like, Kyle's issue and the reason that everyone before Amanda went and slept with west, the issue everyone had with Kyle is that, like, you're 39, 40, or whatever age you are. And you're still saying summer should be fun.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

There's kind of a shelf life for

[Jared Freid]

male fun where it starts to get a little losery.

[Jordana Abraham]

Totally.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah. Like, when does having fun seem losery as a man?

[Jordana Abraham]

I mean, the minute you get married. Yeah. I think no more fun. Well, you know, when you get married or get engaged, you know the.

[Jared Freid]

You know the premise of him being in the. Having a Hampton share House at 42 years old while married.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. You go, what are you doing here?

[Jared Freid]

Here, Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

Why do you need to be here?

[Jared Freid]

That's why he became a dj.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right? DJ kind of extends the shelf life.

[Jared Freid]

Yes.

[Jordana Abraham]

Why I have to be here for work is different than I just like going out to the sloppy tuna. Like, that doesn't exist anymore. Look how old I'm. I'm happy to not know the places you go.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

If I knew at 41, the hot spots in Montauk, I would sound like a loser.

[Jared Freid]

Loser. Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

There's a point. Like, there's.

[Jared Freid]

Maybe that's why men become DJs, right?

[Jordana Abraham]

To get out of being a loser.

[Jared Freid]

Yes.

[Jordana Abraham]

If you're the guy on the stage,

[Jared Freid]

you still want to. You still want the young person's lifestyle.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

But, you know, it's losery. Therefore, you become the dj.

[Jordana Abraham]

Listen, I'm. You see this with standups. If your act is about dating until you're in your 50s. What?

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

What are you doing?

[Jared Freid]

Is that why you got a girlfriend?

[Jordana Abraham]

It's exactly why. For my career? Well, yeah. Just look at, like, the dad trope is real. Is there for a reason? Reason. Like, at some point, you gotta fall to the back and be the dad who just gets people to the airport early, you know? Like, you're not the show. You know, like, it's just how it works.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

And you go, well, why won't men commit? Well, I don't want to just dissolve into nothing. So it's like. It's a real fear, you know?

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

But there's a lot of comfort in that, too. Like, I kind of like being in a relationship. I'm, like, excited for the dad of it all.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Again, I think continuously doing the same thing over and over again is what feels losery. So it's like any sort of movement is exciting.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. And. But it is Funny, in this email, I kind of hear the guy who is trying to make a career and knows that his value was seen in his career dealing with the emailer, the woman who's 21, who's trying to be a nurturer.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

And a caregiver. And if you're dating someone who doesn't want to be nurtured or cared for, you're not really dating someone. It can feel like, what the am I doing here?

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

So I feel like I've been slowly shutting down because every time I try to express how I feel, it turns into a defensive defensiveness or gets flipped back on me. So instead I hold it in and that turns into the bad energy he talks about. I miss who I used to be more than anything. I don't want to feel this way, but I also don't want know how to go back to being soft, loving, and easy. I feel hurt and like things have never been truly resolved between us. He sees who I am now, but I don't feel like he sees what created that. It recently came to a head after a small argument, and now he's saying he doesn't think the relationship will work, that we operate too differently, and that we should be se should separate before we hurt each other more. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here feeling like I've been asking for emotional understanding and accountability this whole time, and he's been asking for ease, support, and peace, and neither of us feel like we're getting it. I've asked to try therapy because I feel like we need help to even communicate at this point, but he doesn't believe in it. So my question is, are we both just failing to meet each other in the way the other needs, or is this a sign that we're fundamentally incompatible? And how do you know when a relationship is worth trying to rebuild versus when it's already too far gone? This is a very nicely written email. I feel for her. Yeah, I don't think she's, like, crazy, you know, 21, married at 21.

[Jared Freid]

I mean, this is why they don't really recommend people get married that young. It's a big because, and it's not because. It's because you're not necessarily who you are going to be. Like, how different are you than you were at 21? And I think that you could easily grow apart from someone that you met at 21 and not be that not. And your lives could go in different directions that you're both not looking for by the time you're 25, 30, whatever. It is.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

And I think that's sort of like this is like a little bit of a cautionary tale about that. It's not that anyone did anything wrong. It's that you both, both are kind of discovering you're different people. They're turning into different people.

[Jordana Abraham]

The beautiful part, and I, I agree with you to give some, like, listen, people get married at 21. Fine.

[Jared Freid]

They do.

[Jordana Abraham]

The beautiful part of when it works out is that they are like kind of like intertwined in a way that they grew up together.

[Jared Freid]

If they grow the same, if they

[Jordana Abraham]

grow the same again, this is two people trying to grow in different directions.

[Jared Freid]

Yes, it can work if you grow the same way. But a lot of many of the times, which is why you hear about out we got married yet. But yeah, I think that's kind of like a, that's why it's a trope of like we got married young and it didn't work out. It's not necessarily someone's fault. I think it's the kind of thing where like it's possible it could work, but it's less likely to work than if you met someone at 30 when you're a little bit more of your fully formed self.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. And this won't be as surprising or also accusatory. Right now it's accusatory because he's just like, I just want to grow up and be a man. I want to be self sufficient. I want to work hard and all I care about is getting to a place where I can feel worth and value because I can provide. This to me is gendered.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

You know, like, because she's like, I just want a home and make you feel good and make us feel like a couple. Like the way she wrote this email is beautiful. No one could deny it.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

And. And someone could look at him and go, you're just giving up. Someone who's willing to like, like make you and your pursuits part of their life. But.

[Jared Freid]

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[Jordana Abraham]

21. You're supposed to be allowed to do that.

[Jared Freid]

That's why I'm saying like, I don't think either of them is wrong. To me, this isn't a case of like, she's wrong, he's right or he's wrong, she's right. It's more like you're naturally want different things for this period of your life, which makes total sense. This is like the age where that would happen where you would grow in different directions. 21. You're literally in college.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right? Right.

[Jared Freid]

So I don't know. Who knows where they're going to be,

[Jordana Abraham]

right where you're going to go. I just think, you know, she's probably leaning on the idea of like, you know, if you get it, especially at that age, what is good is right. You know, like, it's. Everything's a little more simple. I'm married, I'm doing the right thing, I love him. That all is like, good. Besides the point, though, Besides the point point. You need to. He needs to grow up. He needs to figure out what he is on this earth. You need to grow up. I mean, there's an element of this where I'm like, when you get married at 21 to someone and that you go, what. What made you need to get married at 21?

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

What made you say, we have to do this now so that I can do other things or feel safe doing other things? You know, I think those are things for her to question. Right. You know, so she's right now blaming herself on like. And I feel bad for her because her whole email is like very. It's so.

[Jared Freid]

And I'm trying to make it work

[Jordana Abraham]

and he's not trying. It must be that I'm doing something wrong or he says that I'm a different person. Yeah, of course you're different person. You're feel like you're failing every day. So you feel like. And then he's telling you, why you being such a bad vibe? And you're like, well, you're part of my life that I'm trying to make work and it's failing.

[Jared Freid]

Right. You know, so she's in. Here's also the other thing is like, she's invested in making it work. If the. It takes two people to be invested in making it work for it to work, especially at this age. I mean, they got married, so that makes it obviously more serious. But, like, no kids. I don't know if their finances are intertwined. But at this point, he's kind of like, I'd rather just find someone who's more similar to me.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

Or who want who. Who that likes that I'm a DJ or likes that I'm doing all this.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. I don't think he wants a girlfriend at all.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

I mean, or a significant other she

[Jared Freid]

probably should have thought about before he got married, but.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

You know, people make mistakes.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. I, I mean, her questions are we both failing to meet each other in the way the other needs are? Is this a sign that we're fundamentally incompatible? I. I think that's Like a strong way to put it. I think you're just two people who, like, are growing up. Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

You know, and again, this is like sort of the issue with that intensive a commitment that young is like, right. If I got. If I'm. If you met like, there, you could change. You could obviously change at any point. You could change your personality, you could change the way you are. But you at 41, with like, Emily, if you got. If you got married, could you be a different person in like, five, 10 years? Maybe a little bit. But you're generally like. Like the person that you have are gonna be right in life by now.

[Jordana Abraham]

And. Right. And I've thought a lot about that is like, what type of, you know, boyfriend do I have to be at this point? I. And I've said this before, like, for that reason, I do feel like I should be better at this. Like, we should be living a life that, like, is a little bit more second marriage than it is first marriage.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

Even though I've never been married.

[Jared Freid]

Because of the age.

[Jordana Abraham]

Because of the age, I've learned lessons via dating and having lived life a little bit. And you know, I think of, like, the arguments my parents would have growing up that were like, arguments that I don't have to have.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

You know, like, I should be. And not that I won't have arguments, but just like, you're more fully formed. I'm more fully formed. There's no thought of, like, what will we do about. You know, I don't know. There's like a million serious subjects that I'm like, I think those will be easier than. Maybe my parents have it. But like.

[Jared Freid]

And I probably feel closer to her in my relationship than you. And I met Mike at 27 when he was living with a roommate in my hill. So I'm like, that feels like a very different person than I'm with right now.

[Jordana Abraham]

Did it ever feel like his pursuit of work got in the way in the beginning?

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, I think there was like a time when he was working. He was. He was working all the time and was more like the amount of time and hours that he was spending doing that. But I think as I've gotten older, the perspective on it shifts and like so many other things with the perspective on it shifts and just the lifestyle is so different. Like when we met, we were. We were going to pre games together.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right, right, right.

[Jared Freid]

But if one per. But if like he was. If he was 36 and he still wanted to be going to pregames and stayed the same person he was when he was 27.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

Or became, or went in a different direction. Became a third scenario where it didn't feel like he was compatible with me. I could see the relationship not having worked out. You have to either grow together or you grow apart.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right.

[Jared Freid]

And neither would have been, like, it would have been, wouldn't have been always doing something wrong because he still wants to do this. It would have just been growing apart.

[Jordana Abraham]

Well, it's funny, like, to relate in any small way to 21. Grow together, grow apart. That's the hard part about being 41 and meeting someone new. Like, you have to figure out how you've already grown and making those things kind of intertwine. You have to take two, two trees that have grown on their own.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

And try and squish them together a little bit or kind of like, figure out how you, you can make changes, you know?

[Jared Freid]

Is that why some men would date, like, are likely to date younger women? They can mold someone to their own lifestyle.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. Or the woman that that age is willing to, to follow them on a lifestyle that's already built.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

That's why a lot of younger women like an older guy. There's no, no chances taken.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah. You know who he is.

[Jordana Abraham]

You know who he is, and, you know, kind of what the, that their safety, their house is built. Right.

[Jared Freid]

I mean, I could understand, I can understand the appeal in both directions. You're like, if you were your age, wanting to date someone younger, less established, you're like, like, this person doesn't necessarily have the strong footing on their own. They can mold to my life.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. I mean, Emily's younger, but I don't feel that, like, how old is she? What is she, like, 22? No, she's 32.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah, that's younger, but, like, younger, but, like, you know. Right. And there's an element of, like, at 32, are you, is your life in a different space than 41?

[Jared Freid]

Well, I also think women, like, mature faster in that way.

[Jordana Abraham]

Totally. Like, I, I, I really do believe. And this isn't, like, a hot take. I think we talked about it before. Like, female, 30 is male, 40.

[Jared Freid]

I. Yeah, definitely.

[Jordana Abraham]

You know, like, and, and vice versa. So, like, there are things that we are both ready for.

[Jared Freid]

Right. That you wouldn't have been ready for at 32.

[Jordana Abraham]

No. Not even a little.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

I wasn't ready at 38, you know.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah.

[Jordana Abraham]

But I don't know, it's, and, and like, changing my life now to, like, have someone else be involved in it, like, that is somewhat Easier, you know, and change. And I don't think it was as easy a couple years ago. But that's also like going through like, you know, did you like doing things on your own, you know?

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

Did you enjoy those things, experiencing those things alone? Yeah.

[Jared Freid]

I think it all factors into this thing. And that's why, like, when she's writing this, like, if someone were to, I would have guessed more in the breakup direction than not not knowing anything else besides their age.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. I mean, she tried for therapy. When he says no to therapy, he's

[Jared Freid]

not interested in making it work.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. You're negotiating. Answer himself. So I think it's.

[Jared Freid]

Is that why men say I don't believe in therapy? Right. It's weird to say I don't believe in it. Like, she's asking him to go to a mystic. Like men do talk about a therapist. Like, they talk about like a tarot reader.

[Jordana Abraham]

Yeah. I think it's because men, if I to. To give an answer, that's not going to be likable.

[Jared Freid]

Okay.

[Jordana Abraham]

I think men are fixers. You know, if, if a woman tells me she's sick, I'm like, what do you need? Hospital?

[Jared Freid]

But she's presenting the option to fix it with this facilitated fixing.

[Jordana Abraham]

Sometimes it feels like therapy is just this ongoing, never ending work in progress. That one thing will find the next thing, will find the next thing. And. Okay.

[Jared Freid]

Because it's not like a linear.

[Jordana Abraham]

There's no clear process. There's the end, the house is done, we did it.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

That doesn't generally present itself. I'm sure people have found that through therapy, but it doesn't.

[Jared Freid]

I don't think people. I don't think that's like the point of therapy.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. Well, Right. And I don't think when I think a lot of men are like, what's the point if we're not going to fix it? We can talk about this ourselves. I. I'm not on the same page as that I could. If I was having real issues in my marriage and my wife was like, like, let's get a third person in here to like, help navigate this and.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

And make this conversation more fruitful than it's already been, I would understand that value.

[Jared Freid]

Right.

[Jordana Abraham]

I hope.

[Jared Freid]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think it, it's kind of like to me, a therapist, in that case, like, we keep having the same conversation over and over again. We're not moving anywhere. I think in terms of like a improvement thing, you see a therapist, they can help you move, like get this conversation from being stuck in a circular non ending motion and like move on from that.

[Jordana Abraham]

Right. I. I guess what I would want from a therapy conversation is like, okay, well, what's something we can repeat? And do they give you that? Yeah, but I don't think men are presented with that like, hey, we'll have tools, right, that will be able to make it so these fights don't suck as much.

[Jared Freid]

Yeah, but I think I agree with you. If he's not willing to do that,

[Jordana Abraham]

he's not even willing to do that. So end your marriage. So we saw. We solved dating again.

[Jared Freid]

We did it. We'll be back next week. Boom.

[Jordana Abraham]

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