B (2:16)

Imagine you live in LA with your boyfriend and everything's going amazing till he says, babe, I wanna move back to Texas to be closer to my dad. So the path of your career. Quit your improv troupe and have a goodbye party, take off months of work, deplete your savings to pay for movers and drive to Texas. So worth it for the love of your life that wants a future with you because he said so. So you spend a month waiting for your shit to arrive, and then another month moving in and building furniture and stuff, and you're so happy. Till he comes back from a family vacation, sits on your couch, which just turns in the mail and hands you a note that says, we have nothing in common and we're incompatible. Oh, no. How. How did I not know this? This whole time, three and a half years of happiness, we've been incompatible this whole time? And that we had nothing in common for three and a half years. How did I not notice? Wow, what a surprise. Thank you for informing me that this whole time we had nothing. You pack up your car with wherever you can finish just getting your crimes. You are, so we have to pack it for you. And then you drive to Florida to live with your mom.

A (3:46)

What I particularly loved about the video was that it felt very much like this podcast in that it takes like this kind of like traumatic story, but makes it pretty funny, makes it pretty light, at least for us, the viewer. Probably not for you, but you did a good job of like feel like someone cry. Sometimes you see people just like crying on Instagram or like crying on tv.

B (4:06)

Oh, I've had plenty of that too.

A (4:08)

But that's the only thing you get. This is like almost like a little bit more self aware felt. Do you know what I mean?

C (4:13)

Can you tell the story of how it came to be? Like, you know, tell your story the way you would want to tell it.

A (4:18)

Give us your whole life story. Let's hear it.

B (4:20)

Okay, so me and my ex met in middle school as pen pals online through a mutual friend.

C (4:27)

Okay.

B (4:27)

We would talk all the time and we were secretly in love with each other. But, like, this is almost before, like, we video chatting, even like back.

A (4:34)

So are you emailing? Are you writing actual?

B (4:36)

It was like AIM, so like IMing, instant messaging like every day.

C (4:41)

Who's this mutual friend?

B (4:43)

She moved from his town in Texas to my town in New York. Okay, so we both knew her in person and then we're just like at in like 2007, 2008. We were all like online all the time, so.

A (4:55)

Okay. And she was like, you're 12 years old, it's time for you to have a boyfriend. I've got a guy for you.

B (5:00)

A little bit.

A (5:01)

A little bit.

B (5:02)

Not, not exactly. The, the falling quote unquote in love with him was an accident and I felt so stupid for it. But anyway, we didn't tell each other that 10 years pass. We don't talk throughout, like college and afterwards, like completely lose touch. I'm like, oh, I wonder whatever happened to that guy. And then we randomly get back in touch. When I'm like 25, I happen to be driving across the country from Nashville to move back to LA and passing through Texas. And so I stay with him for a night instead of a hotel. One thing leads to another and we fall madly in love. Madly in love. Like, I cannot understate in this one weekend or one. Well, that started it. And then we started visiting each other and then it just ballooned from there.

C (5:48)

And like you already had kind of the backlog of having talked and a little bit of trust built and you know, finally you see the our story page. This is the our story page on crack.

B (5:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it felt very much like fate aligned. Like, how is this real life? Like, this is a better love story than I ever could have like, dreamed up. And yeah. Just so madly in love. I cannot under explain that because it's so critical to how this all unfolded into such a fucking disaster.

C (6:19)

You're going, you're going. You're driving from Nashville to L. A to pursue music.

B (6:25)

Yeah, I had lived in L. A. I for college and then I kind of bounced around after that. And I had ended a previous relationship that I was in Nashville with and was like, nashville isn't my city. I've gotta go back to like my people.

C (6:37)

And then on your way to Nashville, you have this weekend. Yeah, beautiful thing. We, you know, get back in touch. And then how do you leave that? You're like, I'm gonna be.

A (6:46)

Are you like in a relationship after this weekend?

B (6:49)

So I'm like, I was literally fresh out of a different relationship. And I'm like, I'm ready to be single. I don't wanna date anyone. I'm going to my life. I have my dreams in my career that I'm going to pursue. I don't give a shit about Texas, like and your, your life, being a quiet software engineer or whatever, even though I'm like kind of low key in love with you. But like, if you want to come with me to la? Like, feel free, but I'm not slowing down for you at all. And lo and behold, he came with.

C (7:19)

And was he like a work from home guy or like, is that so he had the ability to like, I'm going to do this.

B (7:25)

Yeah.

A (7:25)

So he moves to la, like in with you? No, no.

B (7:29)

We live separately for a year. And even at this point, like a couple months into our relationship, some people were like, why don't you just move in together? And I'm like, well, once we move in together, I'm like, never going to live alone again because this is the love of my life and we want to spend forever with each other. So, like, we should spend a year in the same city living separately. But at this point we were both like, you're my soulmate, we're gonna be together forever.

A (7:53)

I'm saying that to you too.

B (7:54)

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, he was first more than me. I was more shy about that. Like, oh my God, is this real? Like, am I ready for this? It took me six months to even say yes to being his girlfriend, like, because I was, you know, at a different place in my life.

C (8:08)

And so you guys are in la.

B (8:10)

Yeah.

C (8:11)

And he's there, remote software engineer doing well. Like, is he like, oh, yeah. Okay.

B (8:17)

He's Mr. Moneybags Money Bags. So that part of the story everyone got wrong, but he just wanted me to finance his move to Texas. He's now he's loaded. He, he got it.

C (8:28)

Okay. I, I, I never took that from it. I thought he was doing worse.

B (8:33)

Yeah, no, definitely not.

A (8:34)

Yeah, okay, got that wrong.

B (8:36)

So we move in together. We live together for two years. All's well until about a year before this all fell apart, he, like, fell into a depression. And I thought at first that like, something was up in our relationship and I was getting really worried about it and bringing it up. And he'd be like, no, no, no, I'm just depressed. Like, this is normal for me. I like, go through these periods and I'm like, okay, okay. But it becomes more of a thing, persists over many months, puts more of a strain on our relationship, but it's all always being blamed on the depression, whatever. And I want to be a loving, supporting girlfriend that sticks to with her partner through the good times and the bad times.

A (9:17)

So, and seeing a therapist during this time or like, I had to really.

B (9:21)

Usher him into that. He was like, I have my own ways of dealing with it. And I'm like, as the months go by and nothing gets better, I'm like, well, I'm kind of struggling because you're struggling. I don't want to pressure you, but maybe you need more help. And I don't know. I was trying to be patient, but eventually, yes, he does seek some help for it. But then all of a sudden. Okay, so I haven't told this part of the story yet. He did try to break up with me once.

A (9:49)

Okay.

B (9:49)

In November of 2023.

A (9:53)

While you're in LA.

B (9:53)

While we're in LA. Okay.

C (9:55)

And you're living together.

B (9:55)

Living together out of nowhere again. Like, this is just in the middle of this depression period. And I'm like, in this depression period.

A (10:04)

Is he acting, like, distant and, like, are you getting a sense that he's pulling away or he's, like, sort of inching away from the relationship?

B (10:12)

That's what it felt like. But I also trusted that he was telling the truth, that it was just depression. Like, he was just being very unemotional.

A (10:20)

And, like, saying, it's nothing to do with you.

B (10:22)

Yeah. And it's not like he had his own, like, friend groups and stuff in LA that he was going out and getting wasted with and, like, cheating on me with. Like, no, he was home all the time.

A (10:31)

Right?

B (10:31)

Like, there were no have friends.

C (10:33)

Did he have, like, a group? Like, he moved from pretty far away.

B (10:36)

I know. And whenever I would question that and be like, let's go do this, that, or the other thing, let's introduce you to these people, he'd be like, no, I'm content in my life at home. And I'm like, okay, fine, if you say so. Okay, so he tries to break up with me, and I'm like, wait, whoa.

A (10:52)

What does he say when he breaks? When he's trying to break up with you?

B (10:55)

Well, I asked, is there something you're not telling me? At one point? Because I'm like, I start to think, like, is there some kind of, like, childhood trauma that I don't know about that is, like, being triggered right now? Like, I feel like there must be something that is making you act like this. And he says, yes, actually, I guess there's something I'm not telling you. With my therapist, we did this, like, values worksheet, and I thought about what my values are, and I think we have different values. And I was like, okay, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, I just think we have different values. And I'm like, are you trying to break up with me or something? And he's like, yeah, I guess I am. I'm like, what the hell? Like, before this, I'm like, okay, we are, we are for life. That was what was communicated. I didn't think you were capable of ever breaking up with me. Long story short, for that period, I was like so shocked. But then he ended up saying that it was basically all because of his depression and that he didn't want to make me unhappy and he thought he was dragging me down by being depressed for so long.

A (11:57)

He backtracks and says that. Okay.

B (11:59)

Yeah. And I was like, well, I want to be here for you. Like, if I'm unhappy and want to leave, like, I'm the only one who can say that. You can't say that on my behalf. And so then he backtracks and says he doesn't want to break up.

A (12:12)

Okay, and what are these differing values that he had thrown out there that you don't have that he has or vice versa?

B (12:18)

I wish I knew.

A (12:19)

So you guys kind of like swept that part under the rug, the values discussion?

B (12:23)

Well, we tried to. I tried to talk about it going forward, and I guess it's not like I think I would say we have the same values, but as far as where they rank in our like, life priority list, like, I'm more creative, I'm more about like self expression. And he's more about like, I don't know, being a like, principled person or like following the rules, I guess. I don't know. Which is like, I can respect.

A (12:53)

Does he think you're like trying to climb your way to the top or something?

B (12:56)

I don't know. I. I really don't know. Whenever I tried to bring these up and like work on them, he would kind of either say he didn't want to talk about it, or he didn't want to work on it, or it wasn't an issue. So for this to then come around months later. Well, let me just keep going on the story. It'll all get explained.

A (13:14)

Sorry to interrupt. I'm just trying to like, give color.

B (13:17)

To so we don't break up. And he says, like, we're gonna work on it, we're gonna talk about our future. Cause he was like, our futures are incompatible. Cause I wanna be a farm boy and you wanna like live in LA and be a musician.

A (13:30)

I thought he's an engineer.

B (13:31)

Well, software.

C (13:33)

Is there an element that like, he's a little lonely? Like, I mean, like he moved far away for someone that, you know, kind of quickly, you know, like this was all passion based. You know, you move from Texas where your family, your friends Your whole life is for this woman that I. He's excited and as into it as you are. And, you know, there's a point where you go, holy, I just wrote a check and I gotta cash it. Like, I'm gonna live my. And he, you know, to me, like, the. The values thing, the. The, you know, I don't want to bring you down thing. These are all things that, like, are familiar to me. He's saying these things to build a case for why he should end this thing that he's already made a lot of promises on. You know, like, he's like, I love you. We're in love. This is the most love we've ever had. This is intense. And then he's like, oh, this is life now. Like, and I'm sitting in an LA apartment, you know, with someone that I'm trying to get to know, but I've already told them I've already written this contract that I'm stuck in, right? So, like, he's got to bring up these other things that are kind of like, I agree, they're.

A (14:42)

But he also can't follow through. Like, let's say he did break fully break up with you, then would you have felt like you were as wronged? I mean, we'll get to the rest.

B (14:51)

Of the story, but definitely not. Because in the months that followed that we did so much work on our relationship and so many more explicit promises were made and plans were made. So, like, by the time I actually got to Texas, I was like, wow, I'm so glad that breakup scare happened because that led us to new depths of trust, closeness in our relationship, and on top of the whole Texas move thing.

A (15:14)

So you don't break up. What are you doing to make this relationship stronger? You're just, like, communicating more.

B (15:19)

Well, I guess he was definitely feeling stuck in L. A. And he wanted a change. He never wanted to stay in LA for ever, and neither did I. Even at the beginning. Like, I said, I didn't want to stay there forever. So I was like, okay, we'll start talking about where our future will be. Will that be in Texas? Will that be in Nashville where you can have your farm? Because, yes, he is, like a tech guy, but he grew up on a farm and wants to go back to that life.

A (15:42)

So he wants, like, the simple life.

B (15:43)

He wants a simple life. Exactly. So we start talking about that, trying to compromise. He's, like, not really compromising at all. And I'm like, hello, earth to boyfriend. Like, you have to give me something here. And eventually we settle on moving to Austin, Texas. So it's near his family farm, enough to, like, drive in a couple hours. And it's also, like, in a major city, so I'm not completely, like, removed from society.

A (16:14)

Right, right. So, I mean, are you. Is it. Are you. Are you fighting during this period, like, or.

B (16:20)

No, it's. We hardly ever fought. It was just more of, like. I wouldn't even say push and pull. It was like, me pulling and him just, like, not doing anything.

C (16:31)

Yeah.

B (16:31)

Very inexpressive kind of person. Very quiet.

A (16:35)

Like, not giving you anything. Yeah, right.

B (16:38)

But again, I was just. Kept being told, this is just the depression. It's just the Depression. So, like. Yeah.

A (16:44)

So the way he brings up this Texas thing is he's like, I want this farm life. I want to move to Texas. Well, are you okay with coming with me, or, like, how does he. How does he, like, kind of package this with you?

B (16:58)

He went back to the farm for, like, a month and a half over that Christmas. And before that, he was saying, like, I want to live on the farm, and that's where I want to live. And I can't see doing anything else. And I'm like, okay, so that would mean you're giving me up because I'm not going to live on the farm. And he'd be like, I don't want to do that either. I don't know. I can't think. And he would just kind of freeze. So I was like, you go to the farm for a month and a half, see if that's really what you want without me. And he comes back and says, okay, I really do want to move back to Texas. And I'm like, okay, so this was already kind of something we'd been talking about. And I was like, so you definitely want to move back to Texas? Can that be a city in Texas? Do you want me to come with you? Like, what is. Where's your head at? And so the conversation evolved from there. He said he did want me to come with him, but that he wasn't expecting me to want to. And I was like, well, I might want to. I don't know. I have to think about it. And so it did feel scary when he brought it up like that. And I did talk to him about that. I was like, you know, when you brought it up like, I want to move back to Texas. To me, that kind of sounds like you made this decision without me and you don't want me to come. Can you understand why that is a little scary to me? And he was like, yeah, you're right. I shouldn't have brought it up that way. Thank you for telling me that. I'll do better in the future. So, like, all these places where I should have seen a red flag, there was also, like, conflicting evidence for it.

A (18:22)

You know, a mixed signal. Yeah, yeah, okay. Right. And it sounds like, I mean, from what we've talked about on this show, that he is like, not really having the courage to like, speak to you directly or like, really, like, he's almost like waiting for you to make a move. Like hoping that you make a move or that you don't make a move or that you make this decision for him.

C (18:44)

Yeah, I mean, this is, to me, this is a tale as old as time. Like, I, I, I, I, I hear what you're saying and it's like, this stinks. But it's like, how old were you guys at the time?

B (18:55)

When we got together, we were 25 at this point. We were like 28, 29.

C (18:59)

He's. Yeah, it sounds like, you know, a confused guy.

A (19:03)

Right.

C (19:03)

That doesn't know really what he wants out of life. And, you know, it's tough to be confused. You know, I don't mean to take, I'm not, I don't mean to sound like I'm taking a side. I'm empathizing with his plight because all of this is like in the air. Like, again, what you end up doing in the way you do it is where, you know, there's, you know, where it gets angering and where you put someone out. Like, you know, when you've made promises and you've affected someone else's life. But I do see in this moment where you're in LA and he's giving you back and forth, if I want to go to the farm, like that's you say at 27, 26, 25. Yeah, that like, I remember my friends and I would be like, we should just go to Maine and just work at a canoe making place.

A (19:46)

Everyone has had some sort of conversation, like, right.

C (19:48)

And you're like, I've never even been in a canoe. Right. You know, and I've said that with friends. And, you know, you go on Google Maps and you like, search into this, like, small town. You're like, man, I wouldn't have to deal with anything. Living's cheap. There's no, I could still be anything. I can be anything. I can be and I don't have to disappoint anyone. And it feels like when you tell his, you know, when I hear his side. It feels like someone who's really, you know, scared of disappointing you as a partner because he'll say what he wants and then he'll take it back right away, and. And then he'll see that you're disappointed, and he's like, well, I don't want that. And now.

A (20:23)

Right. It does seem like he doesn't really know. Right. I don't think it. From what you're saying, it doesn't sound like he's, like, plotting. Plotting this breakup. It kind of sounds like he's not sure if, like, he. He. He should be with you or not be with.

C (20:36)

He doesn't know if he's coming or going. He's not growing soybeans. He's not even thinking of the fucking farm. I. I think the farm is, like, just a thing, an excuse. It's all excuses. It's all, like, Excuses for what? Not being ready for the responsibility of a very serious relationship, which is already.

A (20:53)

In a very serious relationship together.

B (20:55)

Then we go to couples therapy.

A (20:57)

Couples therapy.

C (20:59)

Okay.

A (20:59)

Chapter. Chapter three.

B (21:01)

Yeah.

C (21:03)

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C (24:58)

You're still in L. A and you're like, let's go to couples counseling. Because you're mentioning a farm and you don't know if I want. You want me to come, right?

B (25:04)

Yeah. So we had both started individual therapy and then after he says, I want to move to Texas, I'm like, okay, we need more communication. We're going to, let's upgrade from individual therapy to couples therapy and see if we can work this out. And I'll decide if I want to come with you to Texas because you're telling me you want me to come, but there's some shit we gotta work out, clearly. And we were so serious about each other from the beginning and still at this point that it's like, okay, like couples therapy is a little like, you're not married. It's a little daunting. For three years in. But we were so serious about each other and our commitment to each other and so in love that we're like, okay, yeah, like this, this is the real deal. We need to make sure that we actually like treat this with like responsibly before we break up or anything.

A (25:50)

I think that's a, that's a great people. Some people are like, why would you, why would you go before you get married? But I actually don't think that's true at all. If you're envisioning a long term relationship, it's sort of like, so you can get to decide if you want to get to that point.

B (26:00)

Right.

C (26:01)

Also, you're both working on it.

A (26:02)

Yeah.

C (26:03)

You know, and if you're both clueless on how to work on it, bring in a pro, you know, and mediate this thing.

B (26:09)

So couples therapy was great, or so I thought. I thought it was awesome. I thought, like, we left happy every time we talked about things that he maybe wasn't comfortable talking about one on one. He's not that great of a communicator. So the therapist really helped him open up and helped me not take some of the things that he was doing so personally. And basically, I came away after every session thinking, it's not me in the relationship. He's not not in love with me. It's just his childhood trauma. It's not that he doesn't want a future with me. It's just his childhood trauma, and he can't communicate well. It's this, that, and the other thing. And so in hindsight, I'm furious because I'm like, how did you sit through six months of couples therapy and let me be brainwashed into thinking that you're in love with me and want a future with me? Meanwhile, you're withholding the fact that you think that we have different values and nothing in common.

A (27:06)

So he's not expressing any of these doubts in couples therapy.

B (27:09)

I even asked. Cause she's still my therapist now. It, like, reverted back to individual therapy. And I was like, did he bring this up during therapy? Am I delusional? And she's like, no. If anything, you might have brought it up because he had mentioned it before, but he never really brought up differing values or having nothing in common or anything like that in therapy. So I'm like, okay, I'm not crazy, right?

A (27:30)

Or even just like, I'm not sure about the future. Does he bring up anything like that? Like, I. I don't know, for a match, something like that.

B (27:38)

Yeah, I think that got. Yeah, definitely brought up, but, like, all these things got brought up, talked about, and then moved on from. And then at the start of every session, I'd be like, is there anything you want to bring up? Like, what's. What do you feel like you have to say? Or that's. That's up in our relationship. And he'd be like, I don't know. I. I'm. I don't. I got nothing. You go, so, like, it just feels incredibly irresponsible at best for him to. Basically, in my opinion, he never actually worked on the relationship because he didn't show up fully.

C (28:14)

It's also just like, what a time waste, right? It feels like that's the place, you know? Yeah, if you're gonna do it, do it. And I'm like, I. You know, I can understand when, like, Face to face in conversation, in an argument at the home, right? You go, ah, it's not scary. You know, you don't go into it, but you're like, like, we're paying for this. You know, like, let's use it. So you. You're going through all the couples therapy. You're like, this feels great.

A (28:40)

And that's an important part because you're, like, doing your due diligence. Doesn't sound like you just like. He was like, I want to move to Texas. And you, like, packed your bags and we're like, all right. Wherever you go, I go. Like, you did do.

B (28:50)

It took me months to decide and agree to come, and then months thereafter to, like, disentangle myself from the idea of LA and, like, half of my career. Because I was very aware that I was trading in a lot of, like, career potential for a quiet, simple, happy life with my love. And I was happy to do that. It took a lot of personal work to get there, like, months of it. And so that's, yeah. Another reason why I was so furious. Like, it's this whole mental gymnastics for so many reasons.

C (29:26)

That's why it's so surprising that it got to the point because you let her right to go. Yeah, you're la, you're young, you have these aspirations. It's like, you're making me leave this thing. That doesn't happen in Austin, Texas. Doesn't have. Maybe it happens online, but, like, you know, I'm out of the. I'm out of the game here for this. So, you know, we're making a major decision here. Like, I. I actually. It's weird to me to, like, you know, he. It's almost easy to go, I'm leaving la, right.

A (29:59)

At least. It's like, it's. That's the time, right? If you're gonna do it, that's the time to do it, right? I want to go here. I don't feel like the relationship has enough potential for me to ask. For me to ask you to come with me.

C (30:09)

And so you decide to go, and you guys get a place there or you're gonna go stay with the parents first?

B (30:16)

Yeah, well, first we were gonna rent, and then he was like, you know what? Like, renting. Like, I feel like a big boy now. Like, I think it's time to buy. Let's not rent and then buy. Like, we're moving back to Texas. Let's. Let's buy a house. So we're looking at houses on Zillow and stuff, and for you to buy A house together.

A (30:33)

He's not saying I'm gonna buy a house.

B (30:35)

First he was saying he was gonna buy a house and then I was like, well, we could get a bigger house if I go in on it. And then we're looking for a house together and then he ends up buying it because my contribution is gonna be measly in comparison to his. And then they would need to like approve my finances and Stu just.

A (30:52)

But it's in his name.

B (30:53)

It's in his name.

A (30:54)

So was there any discussion when he's buying the house that's in his name for you to live in of like, what is our, what is our future plan here? Like, because if you're buying a house in your name, we're not buying this house together. I don't know if you discuss marriage or kids or long term future, but like wouldn't that kind of stuff kind of come into the house discussion?

B (31:15)

We're so. We both didn't want kids very from the beginning of the relationship. We were both very clear about that.

A (31:20)

Same page about that.

B (31:21)

And then we're also both kind of atypical in that, I don't know, just the idea of like a whole marriage ceremony and stuff like that was never really important to me or him. So that wasn't on the front of my mind. It was more about like timelines, like what's our five year plan? What's our ten year plan? And then looking vaguely into like, okay, maybe in 20 years we would move into to Nashville or something like that so I could have part of my in person music career and be a producer there or something like that.

A (31:52)

Okay. And I get that if you're like both not children and marriage focused.

B (31:56)

Yeah.

A (31:56)

Then like those, and those conversations seem less important. But also, I mean, you tell me if this is wrong. Maybe he thinks it's less wasting someone's time if those aren't things that they're interested in.

C (32:05)

Yeah, yeah. I, I think he's going to be married with kids in like two years. I'm just saying, I just like, I.

B (32:11)

I think a lot of way to rip my heart.

C (32:14)

I just like when you. This all feels like he doesn't know what the he wants. Like, and, and yeah, it makes it easier to like there's no time being wasted because like no kids, no marriage. Oh, we're gonna like, you know, we're gonna. That also leaves it, you know, I think from his end probably adds to his anxiety. This is just. We float on and there's no thing we're trying to hit or try place we're trying to go. And that could probably feel for someone who's trying to figure out his own life because it does sound like he's very confused as to what he wants and where he wants to be. Like, I don't even think he'll be a software engineer in two years. Like I think this guy's gonna be on a farm with two kids and you know, and a wife and you know, living on like the parents guest house on the. On. On the property. Like a. It just kind of. I don't know. Like I. I don't know anything about him, but I feel like I know this guy intimately because I'm hearing all this and it's like, you know, it's. It's somewhat classic not to make this not, you know, a special thing, but like it's just like.

A (33:18)

I think that's why it's so relate. That's why the video has millions and millions of. Aside from. It's very catchy but also just like relatable story of like one person thinking you're going one way and the other person kind of being on a totally different page.

B (33:31)

Right.

C (33:32)

And we talk about it all the time. Like you know, we, you know, we talked about with Logan Yuri. Like we have. She has so many people. It's the next step is engagement or breakup for these guys. And it's like I kind of see that as like when he's going to therapy and not giving you like not doing it, that means why even do it? Right. That means he's holding out this one little piece of information that is like the most important information to the therapy.

A (33:57)

Right.

C (33:57)

Situation. So it's like, why waste your own time? Does he think it's just going to dawn on him one day that he's happy in his life and happy with how this is going? I don't. That might have been his delusion to think that.

A (34:08)

Right. Okay, so do you move into this house that he bought? Yeah, yeah. So you. Okay, so you move, you both move into that. And are you paying towards like anything?

B (34:17)

The plan was. So he wants to pay off the house in like three years because he's very like anti debt. So he's going to pay like an insane over the mortgage. So I was just going to pay like split utilities essentially.

C (34:31)

But anti debt. Another thing, like another character profile of like I don't know where I want to be. I don't want to be stuck anywhere.

B (34:38)

Oh absolutely. He's very explicit about that.

C (34:40)

Yeah. Doesn't want to be stuck. And then, like, I mean, again, now you're like, you know, the U.S. now you're in small town Austin. You know, this is, you know, I, It's. It plays to the whole personality.

A (34:53)

Right? Okay, so you're. You move into his house technically, and you're paying half the utilities and what. And how long are you there?

B (35:02)

Wait, one more thing about the. The paying half the utilities and whatever and not being a participant in the house when he offered to buy the house himself. And I was like, are you sure you don't want my contribution? I know it's small in comparison to yours, but it would help. He's like, no, you should, you should keep that money and invest it towards your career. Like, you're moving to Austin for me. You should, like, hire an assistant so that you can, like, relax a little more and achieve more and like, happy wife, happy life. Right? And I was like, what? And he's like, not that you're my wife, but like, like, you're doing this for me. Let me do this for you. So, like, that was just another, like, I don't know.

A (35:39)

No, that seems a little bit. That seems like, you know what I mean? It's the kind of thing that seems really like, generous and kind in the moment. But then you look back and you're like, was he saying that so that he could cleanly break this off?

C (35:50)

Right.

A (35:51)

They're not, you know, having to sell the house to give you your. Whatever your cut is.

C (35:54)

He's anti debt in all forms. You know, like, he doesn't want, you.

A (35:58)

Know, it's manipulative to say, like, you know, get yourself like, I just want to make you happy. And I'm having, you know, it totally.

C (36:05)

Made it into a favor as opposed to, like, it's a favor to himself.

A (36:09)

Right.

C (36:09)

If you're not in on this house, I. I'm still on my own. I'm still, you know, he's making decisions as a I, not a we.

B (36:16)

Yeah, right. All throughout the site. That is abundantly clear, unfortunately.

C (36:21)

How long are you in the house before you have a talk?

B (36:24)

I was in the house 30 days to a T. And he was there with me for three weeks. One of the weeks he was off on his family vacation.

A (36:32)

And were you not, like, invited on the family vacation or.

B (36:36)

I was invited, but I had, like, my three sisters had just gotten married in the past two years, so I was constantly traveling everywhere and had so many things and another wedding upcoming, so I was just too busy with the move and everything to go along with him. But I was invited. Yes.

C (36:52)

Where did they go?

B (36:53)

Where did they go? Did they go to, like, upstate New York or something? I don't know.

A (36:57)

In Texas. Interesting.

B (36:58)

Interesting to, like, hike.

A (36:59)

So the family's weird.

C (37:00)

So they went. I mean, a hiking vacation.

A (37:02)

They're farmers.

C (37:03)

That's a work. Yeah, yeah. So he goes on this vacation, so for a week out of the month, and then comes back and has, like, a premonition. Is that.

A (37:12)

Has he been acting weird? Like.

B (37:13)

Okay.

A (37:14)

Does his family like you?

B (37:15)

His family likes me, yeah.

A (37:16)

Okay.

C (37:17)

Did you like them?

B (37:18)

Yeah.

C (37:19)

Yeah.

B (37:20)

His dad is very nice. He's very old. He's, like, 83.

C (37:23)

Okay.

B (37:24)

So he's, like, slow, but very smart. And we were bonding so much. So sad. He was teaching me how to, like, seal drywall and stuff in our new house together. Like, we were having all this.

A (37:34)

Right.

B (37:35)

So sad.

A (37:35)

Yeah.

B (37:36)

But anyway, yeah, he comes back from the vacation and he takes the train from. From the Northeast to Texas because he's big on the environment, because he thinks that's going to make a difference. Like the plane isn't going to take off without him. Sorry, I'm bitter. I'm bitter and angry. No, I applaud the effort.

C (37:52)

Taking the.

A (37:53)

Another part of the profile.

C (37:54)

Yeah, that's part of the whole thing.

B (37:56)

Two days where you don't sleep. He's, like, delusional.

A (37:59)

Well, it's the kind of thing where he's. Or I could see where, like, when you're dating, when you like the person. When you're dating the person, you're like, oh, wow. He's, like, so dedicated to his.

B (38:07)

He wasn't always like that, though. This was like a new turn in last year. Such that, like, a part of me thinks, like, does he have a brain tumor or something? And that's why he completely flipped a fucking switch.

A (38:18)

Would that make you feel a little better?

B (38:19)

Oh, it made me feel so much better. I would. I would have, like. I'll have daydreams that, like, I get a call that, like, yeah, I have a brain tuner. They operated it. I'm back to the man that you loved, and I'm like, wow.

C (38:31)

Or he's being forced to settle down, and he doesn't want to settle down.

B (38:35)

Like, I don't explain the trains.

C (38:37)

The trains and explains it to me. I got this, you know, this train. I got two days to, like. So I don't have to go back right away and have to answer to all these questions.

A (38:45)

I have to think two days to.

B (38:47)

To.

A (38:47)

To be alone with my thoughts.

C (38:49)

Right.

B (38:49)

To, like, that is what he eventually said.

C (38:52)

The explanation, it's. I mean, this is.

A (38:54)

And the environment.

C (38:55)

Yeah. Right.

B (38:57)

Yeah. No, he said, like, I had two days to think, and, you know, I'm not like, very in touch with my feelings. And so I just, it gave me uninterrupted time to think about this. And he handed me the note and.

A (39:09)

He handed you a note, and then he leaves.

C (39:11)

Train note.

B (39:12)

God. Train wreck, train note. No, he, like, after that first day he was back, I had, like, kind of finished working. Went into his office to be cute and say hello and stuff. Because the night before when he got in, he was so tired, he just went straight to bed. And so I was, like, hugging him and like, yay, you're back. Yay. Want to go cuddle on the couch? And he's like, yeah, sure. And so we sit down, and then he's like, actually, I wrote, I just want you to read this. I think this says everything. And hands me the infamous note.

A (39:44)

And he's a bad communicator. So he's written this out. And then does he, like, watch you read it or just, oh, my God.

B (39:51)

Sits there, watches me read it.

A (39:52)

Brutal.

B (39:53)

And I just go, I don't understand. Over and over again. I'm just like, I don't, I don't understand. I'm in utter shock. Utter and complete shock.

A (40:02)

Right. It sounds like he gets, you know, it's interesting. Like, I feel like people get like, like, you know, if you're grading personal attributes, like, I'm sure he's, like, great in a lot of ways, but it sounds like he's like an F communicator. Like, communication.

B (40:15)

He gets an F minus.

A (40:16)

Yeah. Like, maybe he's like, I don't know what his positive qualities are. I'm sure, you know, he's dedicated, hardworking, whatever gets good. Great. Gets, Gets a very high mark there. But I would say, Would you not say F for communication?

C (40:29)

Yeah, it seems like maybe D, if.

A (40:31)

It was an F, he could, he would have just left and not said anything.

C (40:34)

I, I, the communication is, like, so related, I think, to, like, he doesn't know himself. Like, I, I don't.

A (40:42)

Like, well, I guess. Yeah. How can you communicate what you don't even understand?

C (40:46)

Right.

B (40:46)

Yeah.

C (40:46)

And you. So, I mean, you read the note, you don't understand it. He's probably not saying much.

B (40:53)

Yeah.

C (40:53)

And do you. Is it like, let me get out of here. I gotta, I just gotta go.

B (40:59)

Or is it like, yeah, I have obviously, like, picked over this with a fine Tooth comb in my memory a million times, and, like, what if I had reacted in this different way or that different way, but in the moment? In the moment, I didn't know. Should I communicate? Should I cry? Should I be angry? What? And I just. At first, I, like, talked to him and was like, what? Can you tell me why this is? Where did this come from? Like, and he really wasn't giving me much of anything. And so I just, like, got up and left the house and went to drive around for, like, two hours. So I was like, I don't know. Maybe if I, like, storm off without explanation, it'll make him feel bad and make him. I don't know. I just. I don't know. I was in shock. Got in the car, called my mom and my sister, cried on the phone, then called our mutual friend because I was like, sos. You're the only person that knows him and me. What the hell is going on?

C (42:03)

From way back in the AIM days.

A (42:05)

Oh, wow. How could you set me up with this guy?

B (42:10)

Yeah. Oh, my God. And she was. She was the first person to be like, is he having a mental health crisis? This sounds extremely strange behavior. Like, this sounds like extremely strange behavior. I'm, like, worried.

C (42:24)

This doesn't sound like my friend from homeroom.

B (42:27)

Exactly. So I go back in the house, and then I interrogate him some more. And I remember, like. But he was, like, sticking to his decision. I remember, like, whipping out my phone and opening up the Notes app, and I'm like, tell me why you're breaking up with me. Because when people ask, what am I gonna say? And he's like, I feel like I'm on the spot. Right. I don't know what to tell you. Okay, so when people ask if you're breaking up with me, I'm gonna tell them you didn't know what to tell me. Is that what you want me to say? Like. Like, I don't know. I'm just trying to frame it in a different way to get him to realize how absurd he's acting.

A (42:57)

Right.

B (42:57)

Like, how can you leave it with him? What is the note?

A (42:59)

The note says, we've nothing in common and we have different values.

B (43:02)

It says, like, yeah, there are pieces missing in our compatibility, and I just don't see a future together. I haven't been honest with myself and by extension, you. I wish I realized this sooner.

A (43:13)

Right.

B (43:13)

You just moved across the country for me, and, like, I hope in time you can forgive me. No. I hope I'm allowed to curse on this podcast.

A (43:26)

How Long ago.

B (43:27)

Was this August 19th of 2024.

A (43:31)

Okay. And is there any now it's been what, like four, five months, something like that?

B (43:36)

Yeah. Coming up on five and a half.

A (43:37)

Is there anything just looking back where you're like, yeah, we, maybe we're not that compatible or maybe we do have different values or different. Like that part. And again, I think if he. The break, the breaking up with you, totally understandable. The mo. The timing and the. I mean, we always say there's no good timing, but there's definitely better timing than others. Yeah, I think the way and the timing and the communication is really like you're allowed to break up with anyone at any point, for any reason, whatever you want. I think it's really more like. But do you kind of feel looking back like he's not the guy for you or like you, you are incompatible in a lot of ways or you still kind of feel like you don't understand it at all?

B (44:17)

Well, the last year of our relationship was such an anomaly because of the so called depression and all of that stuff. So I was like, how much of this is actually him and how much of this is real? Because going back to when we fell in love, we fell so in love. And I was sure on my path, I'm going to la, I'm a musician. Like I'm pursuing my dreams. If you want to come along and hitch a ride, feel free. And then he did and was like, I love you so much, I will sacrifice everything to be with you. And I was like, okay, great. It was more than that. Like it was more of a two way street for that. And then we grew from there. And then he was like, okay, now I have needs. I need to go back to my life and I need you to compromise. And I was like, you know what? Okay, I can, I will. Cause I love you that much. So, you know, obviously he wasn't like the ideal, ideal partner, but it started off strong and then we grew together and then he just already was my partner and I was willing to sacrifice for that, for love.

A (45:15)

You were willing to make it work even though you did, you were incompatible in some ways or some ways. Yeah, it sounds like he's even like with his communication, I feel like that would be hard to have a life together if the person kind of like shuts you out when they are going through something. I would imagine.

B (45:31)

Well, that's become obviously way more apparent in the past six months. Like before that we had so much in common and we had such a strong bond and now Especially with everything that's happened since then with the viral video and all that stuff, that my life now is completely incompatible with his. He's so shy and.

C (45:52)

Yeah, so let's start with that.

A (45:54)

Yeah.

C (45:54)

So when do you get a sound booth? When do you start singing?

A (45:57)

Right. So you move back. You move to your.

B (45:58)

With.

A (45:58)

To your. To Florida.

B (46:00)

Yes.

A (46:00)

And with your mom. Why didn't you go back to la?

B (46:03)

Well, I was. This was, like, days after the breakup. I was like, I don't know what to do. I need to get out of this house. So I can't go. I don't have anywhere to go right now.

A (46:11)

Okay, so you went home. That makes sense.

B (46:13)

And it was a shorter drive to Florida. And also, I knew that, like, I am going. I need to fall apart for months. Like, I am unwell. So unwell.

A (46:23)

You need to be around people who, like, love you and care about you.

B (46:25)

Like, I need to be taken care of. I need to be fed and clothed. Like, I am not well. And so I go home to mom, and I get back in the sound booth. On day six is when I wrote this song that's coming out now called Before I Fall Apart. So, no, that's not the infamous joke breakup song, but it is. Like, I immediately. I am horrendously, horrendously depressed. Like, I feel like I'm carrying around a backpack of rocks every single day. I only have, like, a couple hours of clarity where I can do anything. And I'm stuck thinking about the breakup and the heartbreak anyway, so I may as well, like, make art out of it. So I'm just, like, writing a ton.

A (47:02)

That's time for that.

B (47:03)

Yeah, I mean, I definitely got a lot out of it. I quit all my, like, jobs. I'm freelance. So that's why, in case anyone was wondering why, I could just do that as a freelance artist, I can just, like, not take on new work. And that's what I did for a long time. And kept writing, kept thinking in the back of my mind, like, there was this little kernel of hope that was like, maybe this one thing is gonna be the thing to, like, finally make my music career happen. Like, you know the way Adele thanked her ex when she wrote, like, someone like you and Rolling in the deep and stuff. She's like, thank you for breaking my heart. And I'm like, maybe that'll be me. While also knowing that I was, like, delusional and just trying to maintain a will to live.

A (47:50)

Are you speaking at all to him during this breakup?

B (47:53)

Yeah, a little bit. But it gets real bad. We had a phone call one week after the breakup. I had, like, many questions then that I calmed down, and he answered them. And it was a nice, respectful, kind, sad phone call. We hang up. That night, I have a dream that, uh.

C (48:15)

Oh, don't want to hear that.

B (48:17)

As a guy, I am probably going on way too long.

A (48:20)

Like, how are we on it?

B (48:21)

Yeah, okay. You're good. That night, I have a dream that I woke up in our bed in Texas and realized the whole breakup was a nightmare. And I was like, oh, thank God. I knew it couldn't be real. It was. Oh, thank God. Everything's back to normal. How did I believe that that was real? And then I woke up from the dream and was just shattered. I, like, that was like 2 in the morning. And I just.

C (48:45)

This dream is the worst thing that ever happened to him. Couldn't you just.

A (48:50)

Well, it's probably from the good phone call. You had, like, this subconscious sense of, like. Like, this is.

C (48:54)

We're normal.

A (48:55)

Maybe we're okay. Yeah.

B (48:57)

So I'm, like, up all night staring at the ceiling. The next day I'm just devastated. And break and send him a text saying, last night I had a dream. Is so sad that the breakup was a nightmare. Blah, blah, blah. Just nice sad.

A (49:07)

Right?

B (49:08)

No response. And that. Just.

A (49:10)

What response did you want from that?

B (49:13)

Anything.

C (49:14)

Come back to Texas, baby. We're back.

A (49:16)

Well, I mean, that's like. That's the dream response. Right? But if it's not that, like, I guess. And I. I'm not saying. I think he. I don't think it's right to not answer at all. But if he's not gonna say that, is there anything he could have said that you would have. That would have felt okay? That. What? That wasn't what you just said.

C (49:34)

Well, it. I. I'm trying to think of what I. If I. I would probably not answer.

B (49:39)

Damn.

C (49:40)

I'm just saying we're broken up. I'm sorry you had this dream. What can I do? I would do anything for you to have a dream that, like, made you feel.

A (49:49)

I know what you would say. I think you would say, like, sorry, I'm sorry you have had that dream. Like, I really feel terrible for hurting you.

C (49:55)

Yeah. If I were to write back, that would be the. It would be A or B. It would be nothing. Or it'd be like, I'm really sorry that.

A (50:01)

And again, he's not. You're a much better communicator than this guy.

C (50:04)

So I think sometimes I. I wonder you know, I think you would do option B. I, I, I know this guy so well. It sounds like it could be me.

B (50:12)

Yeah, you guys should hang out and you'd be best friends.

C (50:14)

I'm not a big hiker.

B (50:17)

Yeah, no, I mean, anything. Just. I'm so sorry. I hope it gets better soon. Like, at that point, at that point, that simple of a response would have done it. Like, we were so bonded. He was my other half. We were fully entwined. And, like, just to have my other, like, I filtered the entire world half through his lens because we were a team. And so to just, just have that be cut off and then him to just, like, not even respond was just God wrenching.

C (50:51)

Well, he's, you know, you just said it perfectly. You're looking at the world through us, and he's just not. Like, I, I think that's the, the theme of, like, the whole relationship. Like, maybe at some point it felt like that because he's moving with you and he says, we're gonna do this together. But, like, again, money plays into this too. You said he has money. He has the ability to move. It's not like he, he's giving up a job to go to California. Like, he, he gave up kind of nothing. He got you and got a loving relationship, and with no real change other than location. Like, and, and the minute he was asked to make a sacrifice for this, it became too hard for him. And now he's got to, like, he's stressed out because he's got to go from me to we, and he could never make that transition. And I think that's like a, a big part of dating. Are we, Are we a we, or am I just doing all this me stuff? And it kind of feels like a Wii.

A (51:49)

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C (54:01)

When do you write them down? Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.

A (54:03)

So are you fueled by this non response? You're like, all right, you didn't respond. I guess we're over time to like make some money.

B (54:11)

I have to, I have to skip through some of this story cause it's so long. But so weeks pass. I. I don't know. One one of in sometime in the first month. Maybe like three weeks in.

A (54:23)

That was the last time you spoke?

B (54:25)

No, no, no. We've definitely spoken since then. But I see like a joke song on TikTok about like, you know, sometimes people make those spoof songs about losing your keys or just something stupid. And I was like, you know what? I should make one of those about the breakup. And that'll be a less depressing way to tell everyone why I've been missing and not in Texas like they think I am. Than just like a monologue crying to the camera like, hey guys, I know you've been wondering where I've been probably. And I'm not. Like, that would be lame. So I'd make this song. And also out of spite, because I am like, I just want it to sound stupid and I want to make him feel stupid.

C (55:04)

Well, let me just say I, you know, this is something that, like, I will say that not a lot of men relate to and kind of why, like, a breakup becomes seemingly easier for a lot of men. And the way he's just like, here's a note. See ya. Like, you ask, what am I going to tell people? What am I going to say to people? What. What's my. What. How do we brand this?

A (55:28)

Right.

C (55:28)

I don't think any man has a relation to that unless they're like, like, cheated on very publicly. Like, and even then, you see those guys kind of deal with it in very bad and quiet ways.

A (55:39)

Like the Tom Brady weird sunset picture.

B (55:42)

Right?

C (55:42)

And they don't. Right, that, like, that's a perfect example because you're like, you know, he didn't do like a crying to the camera. Like, you know what you're saying right now? You're like, there's people wondering where I am. Like, I. I don't think there's anyone wondering where he is at all. And I, I think that would be the same for me. I don't think I'd have a group. Where you been? What? How come there's no pictures of you and your. Yeah, well, there's no pictures ever of me and my gal. There's no, you know, I relate this.

A (56:08)

To almost like the male version of getting fired. Are we saying I resigned? Or how are we packaging this? Or, like, how am I gonna put that? I mean, that would be. I feel like a concern for what if you. Male version of that.

C (56:22)

I guess. Yeah. What have you been doing lately? Like, I. Well, I've been out of a job. What. How did that happen? I guess you have a story that.

A (56:29)

You'Re packaging to tell other people.

C (56:31)

And. But the way you're saying, you're like, okay, well, here's my moment to, like, tell, you know, the group what's going on. And you do see these a lot on Tick Tock. And it's a. There's a community of, you know, women telling these crazy but not so crazy stories of what. What went down and finding a community of people that are commenting and going, it happened to me. And this is, you know, and, oh, my God, they're all horrible and this and that. So it is interesting that you're like, okay, let me put a tune to this. I see you know, like. Yeah, because it really does hit all the notes for virality on the. On Tick tock especially because it's like, it's a interesting story, it's relatable. And then you're like, catchy tune.

A (57:14)

Yeah.

C (57:14)

You know the trifecta that. I mean, what's better than that? So, right, You.

A (57:19)

The catchy tune. The tune was great.

C (57:21)

It was great.

B (57:21)

But I. Okay, so I hope it's clear that I deliberately made it sound bad. I don't actually sing like that.

C (57:27)

I've been singing in the shower for.

B (57:28)

Months, so I. I made that in like 30 minutes. I didn't write any lyrics. I just, like, spitballed. And then all the harmonies are me. Listen. Like, they're all a split second late because I'm listening to what the lead vocal sang and then I'm like trying to repeat it like a split second later. And I like, purposely pulled my voice out of two and I'm like, you're so happy.

C (57:49)

Like, you're upset.

B (57:51)

Like, so stupid. Like, I want it to be like, so, like, like, I don't know, a sarcastic tongue in cheek.

C (57:58)

Yeah, right. No, I definitely. Sure.

B (58:00)

Yeah. Okay.

C (58:00)

The.

B (58:01)

The.

A (58:01)

Your voice is better than that.

B (58:04)

Not to brag, but yes, my voice is better.

C (58:06)

This, this song, you post it within, like, minutes. You're like seeing.

B (58:09)

No, no, no. Oh, I don't post it within minutes of making it. If that's.

C (58:13)

No, no, no. I. I mean, like, you put. Once you do post.

A (58:16)

You were classy.

B (58:17)

You.

A (58:17)

You blurred out. You did the smiley face over the. Over the face.

C (58:20)

Oh, yeah, yeah. The. The way it's done is perfectly done, perfectly executed. But I know on TikTok, if you put out something that, like, it'll pop. Did it like you do you put it up in like, how many followers.

A (58:31)

Did you have when you put it up on.

B (58:34)

So it actually did way better on Instagram.

C (58:36)

Okay.

B (58:37)

Instagram was crazy. TikTok was kind of more like. I've had similar sized spiral videos on TikTok from other stuff that got like 4 million on TikTok and probably like 20,000 followers from it. So just nothing to sneeze at. Like, like. But on. On Instagram, it has, I don't know, 50 million views and counting. Got like 140,000 followers. It's from it. From that just alone on top of what I had earlier. It was crazy. Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy followers.

C (59:08)

Wow.

B (59:08)

I had no idea. And if I had had an idea, I would have waited so many months until I was better because I was so unwell at this point. Still. Like, I was barely.

C (59:20)

That's why I did well.

A (59:21)

Yeah.

C (59:21)

You know, that's part of it. It fresh and people can feel it.

B (59:24)

There's a video that I haven't posted anywhere of me sobbing hysterically in my car because I have the interviews with Fox and Rolling Stone the next day, and I'm like. I feel like this is my one chance and I'm wasting it because I'm too depressed to finish any of my music. Right.

A (59:40)

Well, it must be a weird kind of state of mind to live in, because you're like. It's kind of the best career moment.

B (59:46)

Yeah.

A (59:46)

Of your life while also being, like, the worst personal your life. So you're like. Like, am I happy? Am I not happy? I'm not really sure.

B (59:53)

Yeah. And the reason I posted the video is because I didn't want to undo all the work I had done, like, doing this Tick Tock cover series I had been doing. Like, I didn't want to just, like, ghost the Internet after I'd been working so hard at.

A (60:05)

You don't lose your whole life. Yeah.

B (60:07)

Yeah. So I was like, I need to explain why I'm. No. Why I've been gone and why I'm no longer in Texas with the love of my life, which I'd made a very big story about. You know, So a lot of anxiety and.

A (60:17)

Does he see. When does he see this video?

B (60:20)

I don't know, but I. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

C (60:24)

50 million the whole time.

B (60:27)

When it. When I heard it was on the front page of Reddit, my first reaction was, oh, no, oh, no, oh no, oh, no. And I send it to our mutual friend, and I was like, is he gonna hate me for. Is this gonna give him.

A (60:39)

We're never getting back together. Is that your fear?

B (60:43)

I think at that point, I knew from the beginning we were never getting back together, even though it hurt so bad, and I wanted to have hope that we could. I knew.

A (60:50)

You felt like it was permanent, right?

B (60:51)

Yeah. There was no hope. I wanted some kind of resolution. And I felt like we were on such bad terms, and I felt so horrible, and there were all these questions I had that he hadn't answered, and I felt like I'd been so essentially gaslit and lied to. I know that I wasn't gaslit. Like, I'm not. Not calling him a narcissist or anything like that, but there are just so many holes. It was. I was just in so much pain, and I needed him to answer some questions, and I was like, is this going. Is he gonna take this as an excuse to hate me and completely discount all my feelings about this breakup and just be basically, like.

A (61:25)

Be like, we're even.

B (61:26)

Yeah, exactly. And I was. Yeah. So I was. And he was still the most important person in the world to me then. Like, I hate to say that, but it hadn't been that much time.

C (61:37)

Like, right, what's the questions you want to answer at this time? So it comes out, it goes viral, and just, like, I still have questions.

B (61:44)

Why did you lie to me throughout months of therapy? Or if you didn't lie to me, then why did you think it was okay to cold turkey break up with me without ever honestly working on our relationship? Those are the main things. When we promised a future together, like, at that point, you're. You made commit. He made commitments that he broke. If he got himself to that point, he should have brought up what was wrong, and we should have worked on it or at least done it in a more kind and less traumatizing way than he did it. And then now I have more questions because he's just treated this breakup horribly, and I just.

A (62:27)

You know, he's seen it. You said yes, so how. What is. How do you know?

B (62:33)

So I. I totally didn't follow any. No contact advice. I was an unhinged dumpy. I was sending him emails and texts, trying to be like, why won't you answer me? And, like, unpacking all this stuff. And eventually he did answer one of them because I. I said something like, oh, yeah, I had had the video with the cut, and she'd asked me, like, if I'd take it all back to be with him. And I said yes. And then people were, like, roasting me online, and I was like, people are telling me that you're a piece of trash and that I should hate you, but here I am just crying because I want you back. I'm so horrendously depressed. I don't know how I'm ever gonna get over this. I love you so much. I don't see life without you. I'm so broken. Like, have you even seen the video? Do you care? Like, I don't know. And I'm.

C (63:26)

I'm terrified on a train, just looking out the window.

B (63:30)

And then, long story short, he basically comes back and says, like, yeah, I've seen the video. Like, you violated a boundary, and I no longer want to talk to you because I think it's going to be publicized, and that's not the end of the story. There's more that gets said.

A (63:46)

No. Congratulations.

C (63:48)

Right.

B (63:48)

Right.

C (63:49)

I mean, he did exactly what you thought he would do.

B (63:52)

Yeah. It's not surprising that he wouldn't want to keep talking. Like, I get that, like, he doesn't want me to, like, post screenshots of our texts and emails, which I would never do, but I did still feel like, yeah, I've posted a viral video, but you destroyed my life and my mental health for six months. Like, I'm just now feeling better. Like, he destroyed me. And so no viral video can ever can come close to the damage he did to me. And I just felt like that was really unfair.

A (64:23)

Right.

B (64:23)

Yeah.

A (64:24)

Well, here's the thing. If he wasn't answering you before that he wasn't. I don't. I feel like you're. Maybe part of you is blaming yourself for, like. Yeah, that's why. And I don't. I think that was just an easy thing for him to say, and, like, that sounded like it was fair and rational. But I. I also think that he probably just. Just couldn't. Didn't want to, like, deal with what he'd done, and that's what he was using. Like, do you. That, like, it's a. To me, it's like a. It's a pretty good argument on his behalf, but I don't think it was like, he would have been talking to her anyway.

C (64:54)

The.

A (64:56)

The, like, you've, like, you violated the boundary. So now I'm not talking.

C (64:59)

It's exactly what she said was going to happen. He basically now gets to not have to deal with.

A (65:05)

Right. Use it as a we're even.

C (65:08)

And it's.

A (65:10)

Is there anything that he could have said that you feel like would have helped or, like, not?

B (65:14)

Yeah. I mean, the first time he actually did email me back with any kind of substance, which was basically to call me out for the video. I was like, thank you for responding in a way that you're actually saying something. All I've ever wanted is a sincere response from you. This is about more than just the heartbreak. This was psychologically so challenging because everything I knew about the world and, like, my trust in the world and in people got turned upside down overnight to the extent that I was wondering if I was having a psychotic break. Like, this was so un. This was so out of nowhere with no explanation. It was just deeply, deeply challenging, and I deserve just more explanation than that. And when I did all of the work of trying to analyze the relationship from every angle and, like, give him. Was it this? Was it that? Why did you do this, I'm unpacking all these things. I need answers. I need to understand why this happened. And he just never did answer that.

C (66:18)

Yeah, I guess, you know, as I'm listening right now, like the most enraged when you say that. Like, finally I got like a response. I got some like, real.

A (66:26)

Right.

C (66:26)

He's mad about this video, you know, like, that's real. That's an actual emotion. Yeah, you've been kind of just dealing with this front for like years now.

B (66:36)

Like, please leave a message at the tone.

C (66:37)

Right.

B (66:38)

Click one for right. Vague apology.

C (66:42)

And then goes back every time, like, every time you go, hey, what's going on here? He kind of comes back from his actual feelings to just like, get you to kind of shut up, you know? Like, it's like, I don't know, I want this to be easy. I don't want to have to deal with anything things. So he always, like, he'll. He'll give a moment of like, I feel this way. And then you'll be like, wait, what is this? We gotta work on this. And then he's like, oh, work. Everything's perfect. So you're always getting like, it's got to be enraging to know you're not getting the whole story.

A (67:15)

Enraging. But also in some ways, I think if you look at it like this, like a little bit validating. Like, he broke up like he was in the relationship. Like, he's acting the same way as in, like not giving you anything. Real communication. That's like a real vulnerable, intimate thing. He's like saying lines, which sounds like he was doing that even in therapy or like in that relationship. And so if there's anything I feel like to take away from that, it's like this person was never going to be able to communicate with me in a way that would have made me happy long term in like a real relationship. Because they, like, are incapable, seemingly.

C (67:52)

Yeah, right.

A (67:52)

Yeah, to an extent.

C (67:54)

No, I don't think he. Again, like, it feel. I can understand someone being like, you're letting him off the hook by saying, like, he doesn't know. Like, I. I think he knows that he's doing wrong, but I don't think he has the words to like, even put to his own right, like, as an explanation. And it's like, you know, the more he's like, well, I gotta have words, so I'm gonna put this off, like, by having, by saying everything's fine and it's my mental health and I'm dealing, you know, it's. Yeah. That's brutal. I. So then you get the mat. And since then there's communication, or.

B (68:34)

Since then, yeah, there's been communication. He had.

C (68:39)

Through lawyers.

B (68:40)

He. He had an issue with the video. And I was like, well, I can't talk to you. You won't let me talk to you. So this is how I'm. I'm overflowing with things. I need to communicate, and that's why I'm sharing it online.

A (68:52)

Because he's with you. He knows he's with you. You're an artist.

B (68:55)

Yeah, right, Exactly.

A (68:56)

That's what you do. He knew that the whole time. It's not like you're a dentist and you release this video, like, artistic video. Like, that's what you do.

B (69:04)

Yeah. He was like, I understand writing a song about it, but, like, posting videos and whatever. Like, okay, fine, if it's highbrow art. Well, you get your highbrow art now with this song that's coming out today, I think today, March 7th.

A (69:19)

It's called Before I Fall Apart.

B (69:20)

Yeah.

C (69:21)

So you wrote. So now you've written a whole album, essentially.

B (69:24)

Yeah.

C (69:25)

About the breakup and how you've been feeling over. And it. Did it come quick? It came like. Was it.

B (69:30)

Oh, yeah. I mean, most of them were written in the first, like, two weeks after the breakup. This was the first song that was written, and they get progressively more angry and unhinged.

C (69:42)

Did it get set up, like. So this viral video, did that help set you up to, like, you know, do people say, hey, we want the album, we want the follow up, we want this?

B (69:52)

Yeah.

C (69:52)

And. And you have to let them know that, like, maybe this isn't going to be this funny video, but it will be relatable. Like, I have an audience of people who relate to kind of what I went through and, you know, trust that they're gonna go along with the.

B (70:06)

Yeah, the.

C (70:07)

The. The real version?

B (70:09)

Yeah. To be. To be completely honest, like, it. It is scary because, like, I had this big viral breakup video moment, but, like, I am a musician. I've always been a musician, and of course I want to be a successful musician. I've been struggling. Like, this is a sexist and ageist industry, and I kind of gave up my dreams to go move to Texas with the supposed love of my life. And then I was in this place of, like, okay, I want my dreams back. And then this all happens, and I'm like, is this my big opportunity? Oh, wait, nothing's ready. Is this even gonna translate? So there's definitely, like, a lot of of fear around it. But at the same time, like, I am so lucky in so many ways to have connected with so many people who have been through this shit. And I don't know, everyone seems to just be really supportive of whatever way of expressing what's going on, whether that be through a serious song or a joke song or an unhinged, bitching video. And. And I'm so thankful for that. And not everyone has that level of, like, support and validation. And I'm really lucky, really, really lucky to have stumbled into that when I really needed it. Oh, my God, it helped so much.

A (71:21)

That's the upside of the Internet.

C (71:23)

Right?

A (71:23)

Right.

C (71:24)

You can always find a group, you know, and. But this is a big group. You know, people who have been in tough relationships and been in something maybe, like, longer than they would have liked to, or didn't know what the other side was thinking or never got an answer. You know, this is all relatable love.

B (71:40)

It's so psychologically challenging is the thing that I couldn't have known before I went into it. It's not only heartbreak, it's, like, psychologically difficult to digest that it even happened when it was just so overnight.

A (71:53)

Right.

C (71:54)

So the next step is the album comes out.

B (71:57)

Yeah. Well, I don't know what exactly form it's going to take. I have an album's worth of songs.

C (72:01)

Okay. And is it like. Is it Spotify, where. What's the best thing that helps you the most that we can?

B (72:07)

You know, the Spotify, the Apple music. It's on all those places. But just the first song now, but.

C (72:12)

Okay, so Spritely's new single comes out today. It is Before I Fall apart. And we're gonna play a snippet at the end of this episode so that you can hear it. And then we. We don't want to ruin it, so we want you to go on all the music streaming sites, Apple Music, Spotify, Search Spritely. Subscribe to Spritely so that you have all the songs that she puts out in the future and go listen to the song. So let's. Let's hit it.

B (72:38)

Couple minutes here and there and I'm not enough to breathe Gotta book the flight Take a shower Learn how to crawl make sense of it Before I fall apart Before I'm a disgrace Before I curse you back into outer space I.

C (73:15)

It's great.

B (73:16)

Yeah. Thank you.

A (73:17)

Congratulations.

B (73:18)

Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

C (73:20)

Go follow her on all the socials, but especially go on Spotify. Apple Music. That's where it's done. That's where it all happened.

A (73:27)

So thank you so much for coming on.

B (73:28)

Thank you so much for having me.

A (73:30)

To tell a pretty traumatic story when it's like, still, like, fairly fresh. So thank you so much. We really appreciate. I'm sure there's many people listening to the show who relate to this. I mean, Jared said, tale as old as time.

C (73:41)

It is. But I. Can I ask a question? Have you started to, like, like, dip your toe into the. Getting back out there? Let's look. Are you dating? Let's. Let's be. Exclusive. The UF exclusive.

B (73:53)

I immediately downloaded Hinge after the breakup. Immediately, immediately, like days after. Because I was just.

C (74:00)

I was distractions.

B (74:02)

I need a distraction. I needed. I needed the light at the end. I needed a little entertainment. And I did go on one date. I went on two dates with one person who I did do a little kissing with.

C (74:14)

Good. It was nice little walk before you run.

B (74:18)

And then I. Immediately after that was the posting the breakup video and crying on the Internet constantly. So I'm like, this isn't a good look. Plus, I realized I had a lot of healing to do and dating was just not my priority.

A (74:30)

Did that guy see the video?

B (74:32)

Yeah, he did. And we've actually hung out since then.

C (74:34)

Huge fan.

B (74:35)

He's cool. I like him.

C (74:37)

Anything else? How has that been?

A (74:41)

Are you hopeful for the future?

B (74:43)

Oh, I'm hopeful for the future. I'm such a romantic. I believe in love. I'm proud of myself for the decisions I made because even though it turned into an epic disaster for me, I wish that more people were willing to take the leap for love. I wish that he was willing to take the leap for love. He wasn't. And it's meant to be. Whatever. But no regrets? No. Well, some regrets. Hard to say that. That now, but I mean, it brought.

A (75:10)

You, brought you to this, you know, like, career wise. I feel like that.

B (75:14)

Really. Yeah. I. I'm not quite at the place where I can thank him for it yet, but maybe someday you're almost there.

C (75:20)

Because I. Even the way you described it just now is actually very empathetic to his problem. And you say, I wish you.

A (75:27)

He.

C (75:27)

He wouldn't make the leap for love. That's like really the answer to the whole thing. Like, yeah, he wouldn't. Then it's. Sometimes it's tough to jump, jump, you know? So, yeah, that's. No, we wish you the best. It brought you here to the Betcha's hq.

B (75:43)

I'm single and I'm ready to mingle.

A (75:45)

Mingles. Do you accept DMs?

B (75:49)

I accept DMs, but I lose track of them very easily, so it's not the. I would say stumble into me in a really cute way.

A (75:56)

There we go.

B (75:57)

Let's manifest and meet cute.

C (75:59)

Go on aim and.

B (76:02)

Yes.

A (76:03)

Yes.

B (76:03)

Yeah.

C (76:04)

Well, thank you so much.

B (76:06)

Thank you so much. It's been so fun.

A (76:08)

And we'll be back next week.

C (76:10)

Boom.

A (76:12)

Kate McAuliffe is our senior producer. Our editor is Emily Freed. Candice Miniga is our senior social producer. Our associate producer is Will Maxwell. Additional production help Shannon Jimenez Sasson. Be sure to follow us at you up podcast and send us your emails to uupetches.com Olivia loves a challenge.

C (76:34)

It's why she lifts heavy weights and likes complicated recipes.

B (76:40)

But for booking her trip to Paris, Olivia chose the easy way With Expedia. She bundled her flight with a hotel to save more. Of course, she still climbed all 674.

C (76:49)

Steps to the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route.

B (76:54)

We were made to easily package your trip.

C (76:57)

Expedia made to travel, travel, flight Inclusive.

B (77:00)

Packages are at all protected batches.