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- [00:00]
A
If you've shopped online, chances are you've bought from a business powered by Shopify. You know that purple shop pay button you see at checkout? The one that makes buying so incredibly easy? That's Shopify. And there's a reason so many businesses sell with it. Because Shopify makes it incredibly easy to start and run your own business. Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Shopify's got you from the get go with beautiful ready to go templates to match your brand style. Tackle all the important tasks in one place from inventory to payments to analytics and more. Spread your brand's word with built in marketing and email tools to find and keep new customers. And did I mention that iconic purple shop pay button that's used by millions of businesses around the world? It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. Your customers already love it. If you want to see less cards being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start sell selling today at shopify.com batches. Go to shopify.comshopify.com batches hello and welcome back to the Friday Feels episode of the UF podcast. I'm Jordana Abraham.
- [01:14]
B
And I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here with you, Jordana. But it is especially good to be here with our two special guests. They are the co hosts of the Dateable podcast. They are the co authors of the how to be dateable book which is out. It's out right now and you can go buy it in the link. I'm. And I'm sure the link is in the bio of this episode on wherever you're watching or listening. Thank you guys for coming on. We are joined by Julie Kraftchick and UA Zoo. Thank you for coming on.
- [01:48]
C
Thank you for having us.
- [01:49]
D
Thanks for having us. Good to see you both. It's been years.
- [01:54]
B
It's been years. We've both been on your shows. We've you, you guys have been here. It's great to see you guys again. It is. How are you? What's going on? What's, what's. And Julie, congratulations. You were just recently married last weekend.
- [02:09]
C
Thank you. And UA was my officiate.
- [02:12]
D
Yes.
- [02:13]
B
For the wedding that I gotta ask about. How was being an officiant? Ua, it is a different role than bridesmaid or best man. I've been Kind of asked to do these things. And I. I am always a no.
- [02:35]
C
It was a yes.
- [02:37]
B
I would never. I would never. I. I think it's different. I think it's different. I think you being podcast co hosts.
- [02:45]
A
That for a dating show, a dating.
- [02:48]
B
Show that, like, makes sense. It's like this, like, ending to a chapter of a story for you two as a relationship. Like, I. It's actually beautiful.
- [02:58]
A
Jared, would you not officiate my wedding?
- [03:04]
B
Well, here. Here's the difference.
- [03:06]
D
Me.
- [03:06]
B
Wow, A comedian officiating. It's like, oh, here comes Mr. Narcissist making it all him. I would be a hater. I just think of how I would hate on me doing the thing. Like, I would look at you. That would be my aunt. Ua. That would be my honest opinion. I'd be like, this is the sweetest thing. This makes the most sense. But if it was me, I'd be like, this Blow hard up his ass. Comic idiot is trying to get laid. His friend Jordana's wedding.
- [03:42]
A
Like, is that what everyone was saying to you about?
- [03:46]
C
That is exactly.
- [03:48]
D
Yeah. Everyone like, oh, my God.
- [03:50]
C
Killed it, though. Yeah.
- [03:53]
D
It was absolutely.
- [03:54]
A
I mean, it is a lot of pressure.
- [03:56]
D
It's a lot of pressure. It was a huge honor, though. It was so fun because I sent both of them questionnaires beforehand and I asked them different questions, and I asked them not to share the questions or the answers with each other. So it was kind of a nice surprise for both of them to hear what was asked and what they answered. And obviously, we talked a little bit about the podcast, but not really. It was not about the podcast. It was really about their graduation. Like, I really felt like this was a graduation from everything we've been discussing for 10 years. So such an honor. And it was just like, the most beautiful ceremony. I couldn't have asked for a better role in Julie's wedding.
- [04:37]
B
What were the questions that you asked them both? I think there's definitely. I'm interested. I want to know. I don't need to hear the answers, but, yeah, I want to hear how many questions were they and what were the hardest one?
- [04:50]
C
There was one I didn't answer. There was one I just left blank. And it was like, my. My partner did answer it, but his was, if, like, your relationship was a song, what would it be called? And he did answer. And then for me, it was like, if your relationship was a movie, what would it be called? And I just. I had no idea, so I just left.
- [05:09]
B
That you didn't have an answer.
- [05:11]
C
I Didn't have an answer for that. I don't know. You know when people ask you, like, your favorite movie and you just go blank because it's like so much pressure. But you asked some other really good questions. You know, just like the moment we knew, it was like. And like, quirks that we have of each other that, you know, you now find endearing. So really cute stuff.
- [05:31]
B
So you sent these to them separately. Ua and then you were like, you read them during your performance, so to speak. You go up and you say, I asked this question. And here are the answers from both. Like, is that how it was done?
- [05:45]
D
No, no, no, no. Yeah. In my one woman show, it was more of a woven story. I mean, it had a flow to it, and it wasn't like he said and then she said. It was just more of a story of how they came together and why they make so much sense and kind of the. The funny things they would say about each other and what makes it really personal for both of them. So, yeah, there was more of a. There was an arc. I can send you a script if you ever need it. Like, I. I have an outline.
- [06:13]
B
I. I am very interested because it does sound more fun and personal than rabbi or priest or justice of the peace. You mess you met with a couple times.
- [06:26]
A
Like, you have this personal relationship.
- [06:29]
B
Yeah, personal relationship. And like, as a podcast co host, you've watched each other, you know, you've. You've had these zoned in conversations that. And about dating. Your show is about dating And Julie.
- [06:42]
A
How long were you dating? So where you got.
- [06:44]
C
Oh, how long was I dating my partner or just in general?
- [06:48]
D
No.
- [06:49]
A
Well, I'll get to that. That'll be the follow up forever.
- [06:53]
C
So we were. We were dating four years. So I think we met over the pandemic and people really saw, like, the shift happen because we'll get into it. My earlier dating life wasn't always so smooth sailing.
- [07:05]
A
Right. So you guys have been doing this podcast together for how long?
- [07:08]
C
10 years or 10 years.
- [07:10]
A
Wow, that's huge. So how do. I mean, UA how do you think Julie has changed in her, like, dating mindset? I mean, you've been hosting this. I assume you talk about personal dating lives every week when you're doing this show. What do you think she's, like, improved on, like, what got her there? People at home want to know, how do they. How do they get this? What's. What do you think is her biggest shift that got her to where she is?
- [07:33]
D
I think the major shift for Julie were Two things. There were two milestones. I see. One was Covid because she was forced to be alone. And I think that's when Julie realized, if I need to be alone for the rest of my life, this is pretty good. Like, my life is pretty good. So if someone comes into my life now, it's going to be an value add. It's going to just make my life better. But if they don't, then I'm okay being alone. So I think that was the first major shift. And the second major shift was we had a medium on our show, Nikki Novo. And before she came on our show, she gave both of us readings, and she told Julie, your person's right around the corner, but you're going to face rejection beforehand. You're gonna face people that are not right for you. So just keep going because your person's right around the corner. And then with that in mind, I felt Julie just lighten up. Like, you know, just like, let go. Because now if someone wasn't living up to her standards or wasn't returning her text or wasn't as communicative as she wanted them to be, she can just say bye instead of trying to make it work or wait around for was like, you're not my person because my person's right around the corner and you're not it.
- [08:45]
B
Right. I, I, I love hearing that because it's, it contains within it the hardest advice to give and to take. And it's like the one you can't really tell a friend, but, you know, it's what they need to do the most. And it's like, lighten up. Like, it is like, like that phrase is so annoying to hear from someone, but we know so many people in this dating thing, and I'm guilty of this, too. Of like, okay, let it go. Let it go. Lighten up. Stop being such a, you know, a negative Nancy. You know, it's, it's so hard.
- [09:25]
A
Yeah. And also, like, the energy, I think we talk about this a lot, like, the energy that you're bringing to a date. Like, if you're bringing that kind of, like, desperate, like, I don't think I'll ever eat again, so I, like, soak it all up feeling. I think that that feeds into itself. And kind of what you're saying is like, if I know, if I feel confident that there's someone out there for me and I, I'm going to, you know, find love, then I don't need to, I don't need to, like, stay focused on something that's not that great, because I know something better is, like, around the corner, as you've said.
- [09:57]
C
I mean, your listeners could probably relate to this, but I was such a type a dater, like, as it is in other parts of life, and I want to control everything. And I had to realize, like, you can't control it. You can only control, like, how you show up. And, you know, we, in our book, actually, we have a dating archetype quiz and people can just go to our website and take it even without the book. And this was something that we ua and I learned from talking to, like, thousands of daters over the last 10 years, that people just operate so differently and there's things that we all do that are strengths and things that we all do that are getting in our way. And for me, the two that I resonated the most with were the achiever, which has served me really well in professional life and just knowing what I want and always getting to the next milestone and taking control of situations. But in dating, it didn't make me stay present as much. And then with the other one that I really resonated with is what we call the dreamer, the person that gets ahead of themselves, that lives in the fantasy, that has so much love to give to the right people, but when you give it to the wrong people, you end up staying in the wrong situations. And I was the queen of situationships for years because I saw that great first date and didn't see, like, all the subsequent behavior when people weren't showing up or following up or outright telling me they didn't want a relationship. Instead of saying goodbye, I stayed. And that was like a huge shift for me, was recognizing those patterns and being able to, you know, exit quicker to the wrong people.
- [11:31]
B
Did you make a specific change with, you know, lighten up is like the vague version of that change. Like, that's like, that's the annoying advice that like the worst person at brunch, you know, gives you. But did you with. With your. With your current, your now husband, did you have a moment where you're like that? You look back on that, you're like, I did it. Like, you know, like the win where you're like, I'm not texting back this time. You know, like, was there a moment with your current that you're like, the vibe shift was done. Like, do you have a memory of that?
- [12:08]
C
So it wasn't necessarily with my current. Although I did tell him, like, really early on, just needs. I had, like. I was like, look, I. The one thing that Gets me is when I don't get that text back, like I will get anxious, I will freak out. And this was like before he ever even like did anything. And the difference I knew with him was he is like, thank you for telling me. I want to make you happy. And if I see a text, like, I'll do what's in my power to respond quicker if that's a thing. And I think the shift though that you're saying Jared is before him, I feel like I just had like a different air to me. Like in the past, every rejection would just go to my self esteem. I was, I took dating so personally for years. Like I thought there was a flaw with me if things didn't progress. And in what UA was saying with like the medium being like, it's out there, just keep going. I had a very different mentality. And there was this guy right before my now husband that, you know, it was like one of those instant we really connected. It was over Covid. So it was a little weird. Like we were doing a lot of virtual stuff. I was in Boston, he was still at sf. It was so built up though. He's like, I'm coming to get you at the airport. Like this whole thing, of course, like the day of flying back, can't hear from this guy. He just like fades completely. And then all of a sudden he's just too busy, he can't meet up at all. And I'm like, what happened? The old me would have been like, well, you know, work's just busy. I'll just wait, I'll see how he goes. And the new me was like, look, I want someone that prioritizes me and if someone can't make an hour to meet up, like, good, you know, I'm moving on. And that's.
- [13:43]
B
Did you fly there to see him?
- [13:44]
A
Oh no.
- [13:45]
C
I was in Boston with my parents and he like, I flew back to SF just to be home. So it wasn't like going out of my way to be with him. But it was just the shift changed as soon as it became real that we were both back in the same place.
- [13:58]
B
Of course.
- [13:59]
C
And I think the old me would have held on for a lot longer in the new me was able to just like nicely say, like, hey, if you're not like able to make the time that I need right now, like, all good. But just so you know, I'm going to like move on.
- [14:14]
A
So you broke up with him?
- [14:15]
C
Yeah, I mean, I ended it, I guess. I don't know if we were really dating ever. But you know what I mean.
- [14:23]
A
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- [17:40]
B
Jane Austin UA what's the best part of the wedding? I. I kind of want to hear more about. I love a wedding.
- [17:47]
D
The wedding.
- [17:47]
B
I love a wedding dish. Yeah. I love. I love hearing food, dancing. What are. What are we talking here there.
- [17:54]
A
Where was the wedding?
- [17:55]
B
Yeah.
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D
Do you all kind of feel like Jared secretly wants to go to a wedding? I feel like you're like itching.
- [18:00]
B
I do.
- [18:02]
C
I wish I like had the wedding a week later so I could have you be invited.
- [18:08]
D
You could co officiate honeymoon.
- [18:12]
C
So it's Sebastopol which is in Sonoma county. So yeah.
- [18:16]
A
Cool.
- [18:17]
B
I love beautiful. A wine county, not Napa wedding.
- [18:23]
A
Right.
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C
That's where it's at. Not Napa. Sonoma is the underrated chill part.
- [18:29]
B
My. My good friend, he had his wedding in. In the other area. The. Not the people who don't have their wedding in Napa love telling you that it's not Napa. That is like a big favorite of theirs.
- [18:43]
C
It's the best spot.
- [18:46]
D
It's like there's so many.
- [18:47]
B
But it's also got the wine stuff. Yeah.
- [18:50]
D
Yeah. It's not booked out. The dancing, the Dancing was great, but my favorite part was meeting Julie's family. I had met a lot of them before, but never met them years.
- [19:03]
A
You've never met.
- [19:04]
C
She's met my aunts and uncles, ironically, but not my parents, which is weird. But.
- [19:09]
D
But they all felt like they knew me because they had, you know, heard my voice for so long, and I felt like I known them because I heard about them through Julie. So we were. I mean, it was like, I really got along with Julie's parents, and also she has an uncle that I love dearly. Like, I want to stay in contact with cousins. I walked away. I talked to more of Julie's family than our own friends at her wedding. I felt like I was part of the family.
- [19:35]
A
Jared.
- [19:35]
C
Everyone loved the Boston fam. That was. I'm sure they love the Boston accent.
- [19:40]
B
Yeah, yeah. They came on a flight wearing, you know, all Red Sox, Patriots, and Celtics gear. You ever see a flight from Boston? It looks like it's a pep rally. That's crazy.
- [19:54]
A
And you. You. You're in a relationship too, right?
- [19:56]
D
I am, yeah. Yes.
- [19:59]
A
And how long have you guys been together?
- [20:01]
D
It's been two years, just about.
- [20:03]
A
Okay. And how did. How does. How do they feel about you podcasting? Do they. Or how do both of your partners feel about you podcasting? Is that, like, a thing? Do they not want to be talked about? Do they like being talked about? How does that. How does that work for you guys?
- [20:19]
D
It's been such a good filter for us, because if someone's like, oh, no, I don't like that, then you go, all right, thanks. Bye. Because it's such a big part of our lives, and I think my partner and Julie's partner really embraces what we do. Like, my partner, I've known him for actually six years. Six or seven years now. So he's been in my life for a long time, and he's known that I've been doing this, and he's been cheering me on from the sidelines. And when I became single two years ago, he was like, I want to cheer for you, but, like, with you, I want to be, you know, that main cheerleader in your life, because I think what you're doing is incredible. So he actually was attracted to me because of the podcast and because of the work that I do.
- [21:04]
A
Right. And so you said you were. You knew each other for six years. How did that. Like, was there a.
- [21:10]
B
Was there.
- [21:10]
A
Were you friends? Was there a tension? Like, how. How did this come about?
- [21:16]
D
If you asked him, there was always tension. If you asked me, I did not see it at all. I was like, this is just a. A professional contact. Contact that I had. We. So how we met is I interviewed for a job where he was on the interview panel. So I did not get the job. But we kept in touch. Cause he's like, I think that's a better job.
- [21:38]
A
You didn't get the job and he still got to date you.
- [21:41]
D
He's like, you'll get a job in six years with me. So he basically was like, let's keep in touch because I know a lot of people in the industry I can introduce you to. So we did the whole, you know, hey, what's up? On LinkedIn once a year, and then we would, like, get coffee. Then when I moved to la, because he lives in LA and I was in San Francisco this whole time. When I moved to la, it turned out that I moved a mile away from him. I mean, just what are the chances of how big LA is? And I happen to be right in his neighborhood and half a mile from.
- [22:15]
B
What are the chances that he looked up your information on LinkedIn and just happened to be within a mile?
- [22:22]
C
He's like, I just moved.
- [22:23]
B
Interview with me. Oh, okay.
- [22:25]
D
So weird. We live in a vibe, right?
- [22:28]
B
Yeah. This is crazy.
- [22:30]
D
It's like that tension that we've been building for six years. Let's do something about it.
- [22:35]
B
Yeah.
- [22:35]
D
So let's move in. Yeah. No, he actually had lived here. If anything, I stalked. I must have telepathically stalked him because he had lived there for almost 10 years. So it just so happened that we lived in the same neighborhood and we reconnected. And when I became single, he and I started hanging out some more and more as friends. But it was really just one night of doing Molly that really sealed the deal.
- [23:06]
A
Very lovely. La. Love it. Yeah, that. That changes your perspective. I think that's part of his long game. She'll see me in a different light.
- [23:22]
B
And what type of data are you on this? You know, you have these archetypes. And again, people can go to your website and take the archetype quiz. And I. That is very helpful because you kind of learn about who you are as a date or, you know, it screams back at you what you've always kind of knew, known, probably. But what are you. You are ua. What are your. What's your type of dating like? What. What was your issue?
- [23:50]
D
Yeah, Maverick. Maverick through and through. This is just a person who is very independent, who values their independence and their spirit space. They're very good at giving their partner their space as well. And they're very good at living life the way that they want to live their lives. But what was getting in my way, and for most mavericks, is we don't let people in that easily. I mean, like, I feel like sometimes people need to earn that right, and most people never earn that right. And when I feel like my independence is threatened or I'm feeling too vulnerable, I push people away or I run away. So for years, I would try to be the first one to end a thing because I wanted to be in control. I wanted to be the one to say, this is not working for me. I'm out. But I wouldn't give the relationship the chance to really go deeper because that meant I had to get deeper and I had to reveal more sides of myself. So I've learned quite a bit in 10 years of doing this podcast of running towards people instead of run. Running away from them.
- [24:56]
B
That's so interesting to give it a different name because, like, I think that Maverick, you know, archetype, you know, and Jordan and I talk a lot about this. This myth, or not a myth, but, like, what gets talked about is that, oh, men are intimidated by strong personalities from women and go getter women and that type of thing. And it's like, you know, there's. It's either it's not all one thing. It never is. It's never all men are intimidated. It's a. You know, I'm sure there are, and that exists. But like, you describe this Maverick character, and I could understand how someone would go, well, everyone's intimidated by me. It's like, well, you know, maybe, you know, yeah, maybe that's the part, you know.
- [25:38]
D
Yeah, we use a lot of that as an excuse for not wanting to be vulnerable or not willing to be. I think for years, I didn't have the capacity to be vulnerable because I didn't want to get the real me reflected back. So I just hid underneath this shell armor, if you want to call it, and just started pushing people away. But it took being in this relationship. Actually, no two things. It took being in my last relationship, which ended in infidelity after five years, that took me out of my armor and said I need to stop fighting with people who are good for me and then letting in people who are terrible for me, because the people who I was letting in were the ones who weren't trying to get deep with me. So then I felt safe in some ways. Right? They're not trying to get to know me. So it's fine. But then I was pushing away the people who were like, who are you really? Who are you truly? What are you trying to, to do in this world, like, tell me? And I, I would so easily be like, go away. You're not the person for me. And I let in someone who was not willing and not wanting to get to know the deeper sides of me. So after that relationship ended and now being with my current partner who calls me out all the time in the most loving way of saying, okay, the Maverick is coming out, what do we want to do about it? Do we want to have a discussion? Right. Yeah. And sometimes I have to be like, you know, I need to take a 20 minute walk, I need to take the Maverick out for a walk. And I come back and then we have a nice discussion.
- [27:15]
B
I like the terminology. Got to bring this Maverick out for a walk. It sounds very, Yeah, I feel like.
- [27:22]
C
Yue and her partner really embrace these archetypes because he's the thinker. So you're like, okay, the thinker is getting in his head right now, maybe overanalyzing. I need to reassure.
- [27:32]
D
Sure.
- [27:32]
C
But I would say as someone that's watched UA's Journey, it's just been incredible. And like I said this, I mean, I love her partner, but I said to her like the other day, like, what I love so much too about their relationship is that she is the side, the best side of herself. And that comes out and I feel like I didn't necessarily always see you as your true self in other relationships and in this one you are. And that was like a non negotiable for you.
- [27:56]
B
I have a personal question based on something you just said. Ua, you were the time, based on the timelines you just gave, you were in a five year relationship that ended with infidelity and you've been doing the podcast for 10 years. I don't, you know, you can share as much as you want to share or whatever. I, I, you know, I'm not gonna push, but I, how do you, it's got to be so hard to have any sort of infidelity and then be on a dating podcast. You were started as a dating coach and a vlogger like you. You've been in the dating world a long time. Like I feel a lot of that pressure. Like when I go on a date, I do represent the podcast and I, you know, have to like back up my words and you know, I, I remember I got posted on, you know, I've mentioned this before, I brought it up before, but I've been, I was posted on like, are we dating the same guy? Facebook group? And in my mind, like it became. And it was like this fake story of like that. I, I don't, I honestly, I don't think I went on a date with them. It was just like a pretty vague telling of like Jared took me on a low effort date and they brought up a bunch of stuff that anyone could have known about me online. So like, I don't even know who the person was or what it was, but I did have those feelings swirling around in me of like, oh my God, you know, like, you know, just all the things of like your career mixing with your, your personal life and there's nothing you can do. Like people cheat, you know, like, you know, anyone can be lied to. So I don't know, how did, how did you get through that? And what, what about, you know, how hard was that?
- [29:32]
D
I think all four of us can understand that anything that we do in life and any actions we take and decisions that we make can affect our personal brand and of course is going to cross our mind. Like Jordana, when you got married. Julie, you getting married this weekend obviously affects your personal brand as well. Right. And you kind of, you have this extensive existential crisis in some ways. And for me, when I went through that breakup due to infidelity, we were in the middle of writing this book too. Can you imagine writing a book called how to be dateable and finding out your boyfriend of five years been cheating on you? It's not a great feeling, but. Right. It's a, it's a crazy.
- [30:12]
B
No, I can't imagine writing a book. Listen, I'm in the, I'm in that process now. It's horrific writing a book.
- [30:17]
C
Book.
- [30:17]
B
I. And then the amount of self reflection you have to do.
- [30:20]
A
Yes.
- [30:20]
B
Especially when you're like dating.
- [30:22]
A
Yeah.
- [30:23]
B
Yeah. You're being asked to tell stories and then. Yeah, I can't imagine what that was like to go through.
- [30:28]
D
In hindsight, the best thing to have happened to me and also to our book. I think from my point of view, from what I was able to contribute, because it's not about what happens to us in life because that is out of our control. People will cheat, people will be do. People will do whatever they want to do. I can't control that. What is in my control are my values and what I act on. What is something that I'm taking action on. And so in the book I actually reflect on this breakup and talk about how, yeah, things are going to Happen, Shitty things will happen. Shitty people are out there. But what I will stand so strongly in myself and in my beliefs and is I'm going to rise above all of this. I'm going to transcend this and in fact I'm going to tell this story and lean into it so hard that everyone's going to know what happened and I'm not trying to hide it. So what do we do as a result of it? And which I think is a great way of flipping the script is we had the Other Woman on our podcast. We interviewed her because she did not know about me. What else is going on? Exactly. It's an episode of the Other Woman.
- [31:44]
A
What episode number?
- [31:46]
B
Well.
- [31:48]
C
It'S good. Yeah, it's called the Other Woman.
- [31:50]
B
Best plug in the history of plugs right now.
- [31:53]
A
Wow, what a guess.
- [31:54]
D
Like it was.
- [31:55]
B
How did you find her? What?
- [31:57]
D
It, it's, it's nuts because I feel like, like getting a little woo woo here. But the universe guided me through all of this. And I remember just sitting there one day and a voice inside my head was like, you know what? You don't know her side of the story. You don't. You can make her into the villain if you want to, or you can choose to get to know her and find out what happened on her end. So there were multiple women, but I found one, I found one in particular because there were text messages.
- [32:28]
B
Did she co officiate the wedding with you? Are you guys best friends? And now.
- [32:32]
D
Yes, she's my partner of the last two years. Believe it or not, that would be.
- [32:40]
B
Turns into.
- [32:45]
D
I found her number through the text exchanges I just put into Google and her name popped up. And then I found her on Instagram. She has a public account. I DM'd her. I DM'd her, just his name. And she right away was like, let's get on a call. So we talked for two hours that night. When I found her and just released everything. I mean, I went on my side of the story, she told me her side of the story. She did not know about me. And he had all these lies about why he was. Anyway, later he had revealed that he was living with his girlfriend, but he had all these lies about why he was still with me. And she did not stay with him after he revealed that before for however long that they were engaging in whatever they're like, they were, they were going on dates in la, okay, under my nose in la. She didn't know about me. So she was like, I'm willing to tell her Story. Yeah, we were living together. We were actually in the middle of trying for a baby and planning, like, a ceremony by the end of the year.
- [34:00]
A
Oh, wow.
- [34:01]
C
Yeah.
- [34:02]
B
And did she. She didn't know about you, but were you, like, what did he say? I live with a roommate. Like, how do you. Like, how does.
- [34:10]
A
Never. She never went over.
- [34:12]
D
No, no, it was very much like, let's go out in public, let's hang out and let's. Yeah, let's. Because they were like, in the early days. They met on vacation. They met on vacation in Miami. Yeah. But they both live in la.
- [34:28]
A
Horrific thing to happen to you. Completely awful. I will say silver lining. As a dating podcast host and writer, the content you got from this must have been gold. Incredible. Like, you made a lot of money, I'm sure, on this. On what? These infractions.
- [34:49]
B
But that's so crazy.
- [34:54]
A
Horrific thing to go through.
- [34:56]
B
But that's even makes him more crazy.
- [34:58]
D
Like, exactly.
- [35:00]
B
I guess as like a. If you go inside the mind of a murderer, you go, like, how do you deal with having dated him? And he's that much of a careless cheater. You know what I mean? Like, I. I don't know. Like, I'm like, like, if I'm going to be a cheater, I'm going to not be with a dating podcast co host. Like, that's out of, like, it's kind of a movie, you know, that doesn't happen happen.
- [35:28]
C
I feel like I even was trying to analyze him for a really long time. And then you have to kind of realize, like, you can't analyze these people, like, because you're not. You're never going to do these behaviors. And I think this actually ties to dating. I mean, you probably see this all the time. We get so many messages of how dating is the worst, men are the worst, people are the worst. And the reality is, like, look, you can only control yourself at the end of the day and, you know, learn what your values are, what you'll stand for, and when you find out information, you act on it. And until then, you're going in with the best intent. And that's how you actually weed through people. And ultimately, like, you know, not everyone's going to be great. A lot of people aren't. A lot of people really, really suck. But there's a lot of really good people out there, too. And let's focus our attention there.
- [36:21]
A
Totally. I think that that speaks to so many emails we get where people have this huge fear of, like, wasting their time. They need to know every they need, they feel like they need to know everything about someone. People write in so angry that someone has, you know, looking for. They interpret looking for. They said he was looking for a relationship on, on the apps or he said he was looking for something casual. What does that mean? It's like you have to, there's a certain level of self trust that you have to have. It's like, I will be able to move on if this person, if this date doesn't work out, if this person isn't the person I thought I, I was. And it's just trusting your own instincts and your gut and your own, like, picker. And I think that gets refined over time. I think most people don't start off immediately knowing how to choose the best people. And that's what we always say about our show, is that we kind of try to teach you how to be a better buyer. We're not gonna, we're not gonna tell you every person that you date is going to be a perfect gentleman.
- [37:14]
C
Right?
- [37:14]
D
Yeah. But also be less of a target for the douchebags. Right. You can, you can attract less of those people, filter them out, or even.
- [37:23]
A
Put up with less. Yeah.
- [37:24]
C
Yeah.
- [37:27]
A
This episode is brought to you by Abercrombie, official fashion partner the NFL. When it comes to game day style this football season, Abercrombie's got you covered. Whether you're cheering in the stands, throwing a watch party, or celebrating a team victory, make sure you're dressed for the win. With official NFL by Abercrombie gear repping every team, they have so many great styles for both men and women. Oversized sweatshirts, camis, bomber jackets, sweatpants. They even have gear for your pets so no one is left out. I have this giant sweatshirt that I have been wearing all week. It is so comfortable. It is so cute. I feel like a real sports fan. And they really have the best apparel for everyone. Whether you're a hardcore fan, a casual fan, kind of like me, or somewhere in between, or you're just kind of like jumping on the bandwagon because your husband's making you go to a game. No matter the final score, make sure you're dressed in a game day outfit that always wins. Abercrombie drops new arrivals every week. Shop in the app, online or in stores.
- [38:23]
B
Bundle and safe with Expedia, you were made to follow your favorite band and from the front row, we were made to quietly save you. More Expedia made to travel savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected. Tron Ares has arrived I would like you to meet Ares, the ultimate AI soldier. He is biblical and supremely intelligent. You think you're in control of this? You're not.
- [38:52]
C
On October 10th.
- [38:53]
D
What are you?
- [38:54]
B
My world is coming to destroy yours.
- [38:57]
D
But I can help you.
- [38:58]
B
The war for our world begins in IMAX.
- [39:02]
C
Tron, Ares. Rated PG 13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters October 10th. Get tickets now.
- [39:09]
B
Listen, this has been great. Ua and Julie. We want everyone to go buy the book. You gotta go buy the book. How to be dateable. Also, go check out the dateable podcast. We're big fans over here. We want to do an Icky or Picky with you guys. Are you down for that?
- [39:27]
C
Of course.
- [39:28]
D
Down.
- [39:29]
B
We play a game here on the show, Icky or picky. People write in with a dating ick that they got from someone and we kind of tell them whether we agree with them or if they're being a little picky. Because that's the, you know, the hard part Again, you know, lighten up. Is. Is probably like what this could be called as well, because most ickies that are told we're, you know, our pickies is just someone that's being a little too hard on someone. So are you guys ready to do an Icky or Picky? Awesome.
- [40:05]
A
I'll read the email.
- [40:06]
B
Go for it.
- [40:07]
A
Hi, jj. I went on a first date the other day and I need some help. I've been talking to this guy on Bumble for a week or two and we finally set up a first date. He picked a pretty fancy restaurant that I've been wanting to try and I was really looking forward to it. He messaged me saying he was excited to take me somewhere so nice. And since he had previously complimented my fashion sense for my pictures, he told me he was excited to see me all dressed up in person. I took this as a cue to show off a little. I put together a super cute and fun outfit and was really feeling myself. He showed up wearing tattered sneakers, old jeans, and an eagle's T shirt. He looked super underdressed compared to me and the rest of the restaurant. I felt a bit embarrassed. He didn't acknowledge it at all, so I didn't either. I wouldn't mind him dressing like that if we were going somewhere casual like a bar or a brewery. But he specifically mentioned wanting to take me out somewhere nice and mentioned me dressing up. Why would he then show up looking like that? So icky or picky. He dresses down at a fancy restaurant. Thanks. Overdressed and unimpressed.
- [41:08]
B
So, Julie and Ua, what do you guys think of this predicament? Icky or picky? Do you have any thoughts on the email? Would love to hear what you guys think.
- [41:17]
C
Ooh.
- [41:18]
D
I, I mean, I think it's picky. It's picky.
- [41:23]
B
Picky.
- [41:23]
D
And yes, I think she's being picky. She's being picky because what, what I've noticed is people's fashion sense subjective. And to him, that may have been dressed up or he may have put some thought into his outfit or he thought, I'm. I just don't want to outshine her. I want her to be the star of this show. So I'm going to dress down a little bit. What this shows is that there needs to be a conversation. I think she could have easily asked him, like, is this how you normally dress when you go to a nice restaurant? I'm just curious. Or like, how do you dress up for special occasions? Because everybody has a different fashion sense and a different idea of what nice is. And for the last couple years we've been preaching like quiet luxury. You know, billionaires always dress like they're homeless. So maybe that's like what he's going for.
- [42:21]
B
He's going for very San Francisco of you. That's the San Francisco way.
- [42:27]
C
Maybe that's where our bias comes in too.
- [42:30]
B
Right? You know, this is a San Francisco tuxedo eagles T shirt.
- [42:35]
C
This is fancy. Now it's interesting because I feel like I like, logically, whenever people complain about clothing, I'm always like, oh, you're being too picky. But there was something about that that gave me an icky feeling and I don't know why that is. I think it's more that it was built up that she. And again, I don't know how much of this was her interpretation versus what he was saying, but it was like built up that she should be dressing nicer. They were going to this really nice place. Like, I think if they were just going to an average spot and that wasn't said, then who cares what they're wearing? But there's something about like the buildup for me. And then he just shows up. Like, did he come from somewhere? What was going on? I think I'd want to know more.
- [43:16]
A
I agree. I think this, I think I totally agree with you. If they had, if they just made a date at a fancy restaurant and he showed up, maybe this is like his vibe. He just, he's not like a dress up guy. But I think the fact that he said, like, can't wait to see you all dressed up. It's a little like, I don't know, it feels like almost like a sexual. Or like, like he's trying to like, like prop her up to be like, you know what I mean? And also other thing that would be an icky about this date is like I don't want to go to a really nice restaurant and dress up. I don't, I've never even met you.
- [43:50]
D
Yeah.
- [43:51]
A
So I think that like first date, I would keep it casual, drinks, whatever. Like I feel like the fact that he, he's talking about her fashion sense and we're gonna like, it's like an over posturing to me, which I would be turned off by.
- [44:04]
B
It's so funny. I'm, I'm, I'm with. It's funny. Like we're all kind of like ins, like a lot of it has to do with like the setup. Like all like the, like I felt like there was so many more icks that are that preceded what she's icked about. Like, yeah, like, like the, the like the idea of. I'm just trying to think of how creepy I would feel like I sounded if I was like, hey, I can't wait to see all dressed up.
- [44:36]
A
Yeah. Like it's like sexual. It feels like overly sexual.
- [44:40]
C
Yeah. Like you put in the work and then I'm gonna show up casual. Like that seems weird.
- [44:45]
D
Yeah.
- [44:45]
B
Just him rubbing his hand. Can't wait to see what you come up with. And that kind of feels like fifth date thing. Like, like this feels like it's too much too soon. Like where I'm not icked out by like, you know, like if someone was underdressed. I don't know. I, I'm okay with her ickiness. I guess. I'm, I'm, I think it should have been earlier. Like, I think like. But here's where I'll give him some empathy. If her profile is like a dressed up thing, like I, I, I'm just trying to think of like other fashion girly. Like fashion girly. Like bright. And it's mentioned like hey, I love your fashion. Like, like oh, I, your, your pictures. I, I could see it would be less creepy on the dating app. I could see myself like I was like wondering what I would write to someone. What scenario would get me to say I'm really excited to see what you are dressed up in next. How would that not be creepy to me? And the only option is that she's like somewhat fanciful in her profile and she has a. A very specific viewpoint for her fashion, and it gets mentioned. Hey, your pictures are great. I love. I love your fashion. Which, again, low probability for the men that we hear about on this show to be writing that. But I can see how, like, I just love your style.
- [46:20]
D
Yeah.
- [46:20]
B
Could be a message that a guy would send. I love your style. That would be actually normal and not creepy to me.
- [46:27]
A
Right.
- [46:27]
B
And then the conversation leads into a date. Hey, I got this great place. It's a little nicer. Would love to, like, take you there. Oh, I've been wanting to go there. Great day. We got it set. Can't wait to see how your style looks in person.
- [46:44]
A
He didn't say how your style looks. He said, can't wait to see you all dressed up.
- [46:49]
B
Okay. If it had the precedent. But she didn't write that, so I don't want to go based on what she didn't write. But I'm. I'm trying to find a way to this not being the weirdest thing. I feel weird saying out loud, can't wait to see you all dressed up, all cleaned up for a big date. And then he shows up in, like, his, like, grossy sweatpants. Like, I don't know. It's kind of weird.
- [47:16]
D
But maybe that was dressed up for him. You know? You never know. Maybe that's, like, the nicest outfit.
- [47:21]
B
I think it's okay to be unattract. Unattracted to someone's style and go, that we are two different versions. Like, I could see how that could be someone's.
- [47:30]
A
And if she was a fashion girl, wouldn't you bring your A game?
- [47:34]
C
That's what I was gonna say. Like, if you're not a fashion. If you're not into fashion, I feel like having the expectation that other people are is kind of weird. Like, you would just cool with whatever.
- [47:45]
B
Noticing it and then not bringing it is weird. It just doesn't make sense. Like, noticing someone's fashion and then being dressed down, it feels like it doesn't go together.
- [48:00]
A
Right. It also feels like, oh, you're here to entertain me. Like, I'm here to watch you.
- [48:05]
B
Right.
- [48:05]
A
Doesn't matter what I. That's why it feels somewhat transactional. I don't know.
- [48:09]
C
Although he could just be thinking, like, she's really into it, so I'm gonna double down on it. You know, everyone in dating is just trying to, like, do their best a lot of times, and sometimes it does come off weird. And I think it's because there's all these, like, Unwritten scripts of like, how you're supposed to date and act and all of that. That kind of just makes people not authentic. He would have probably done way better with someone that, like, wasn't a, like, fashionista.
- [48:35]
D
I just think his outfit is a fashion statement. Like, have you seen how Justin Bieber dresses? If he dressed like. If someone dressed like Justin Bieber out in public at a nice restaurant, you probably be like, that man looks homeless. But it's a statement.
- [48:49]
A
Justin Bieber has earned that right.
- [48:52]
C
He's earned that right.
- [48:53]
A
If he, you know, if this guy is a Grammy winning musical artist from the time he was 16, worldwide world known, you can show like, who can wear sneakers to work. Just because like Steve Jobs did doesn't mean like everyone can wear sneakers to work.
- [49:07]
D
So we need to know who this guy is.
- [49:09]
B
Yeah, maybe he's Justin Bieber.
- [49:12]
A
If it's Justin Bieber, I would be like, okay, fine. This is your style.
- [49:17]
B
Listen, this was great. Julian U.A. thank you guys so much for coming on the u up podcast. We want everyone go buy their book. I I loved hearing about your the wedding and the relationships and the drama and the cheating and the everything. So go listen to datable and also go buy the book how to be dateable. It's out right now. And Jordana, we solve dating again. That's it for us.
- [49:45]
A
We did it. We'll be back next week.
- [49:47]
B
Boom.