Is Christmas A Relationship Test?

Summary

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U Up? – "Is Christmas A Relationship Test?"

Betches Media | Hosts: Jordana Abraham & Jared Freid
Released: December 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

This festive episode of U Up? tackles how Christmas acts as a relationship test, holiday dynamics with family and partners, navigating significant “meet the parents” milestones, and the emotions and quirks surrounding holiday gift-giving in dating. Hosts Jordana and Jared blend humor and honesty as they respond to listener emails and play their signature relationship games with a holiday twist.

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Episode Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Christmas Costumes & Holiday Spirits

• [00:53-04:28]:
  • Jordana and Jared, dressed as Santa and his elf for the YouTube version, poke fun at their costumes:
    • “This is Delray Beach Santa. Delray Daddy Santa. Midlife crisis Santa.” (Jared, 00:41)
  • Banter about Jared’s chest hair, waxing habits, and Christmas erotica traditions.
  • Jordana considers bringing her costume to her in-laws’ Christmas:
    • “Anything that gets you into the spirit…they love that.” (Jordana, 04:08)

2. Jared’s Book & Comedy Tour

• [04:28-08:13]:
  • Jared plugs his upcoming book "Walking Red Flags" and his comedy tour stops, reflecting on how friends and “the baby” (A friend? Inside joke) previewed his book and gave feedback.
  • “The baby made it. I’m sorry Joe and V, you guys didn’t make it!” (Jared, talking about his book dedication, 07:07)

3. Gym Routines and Taking Risks in Dating

• [08:13-12:58]:
  • Jared recounts debating whether to talk to a woman at Barry’s Bootcamp after seeing her take selfies, and how hesitation in such moments can reflect broader dating anxieties:
    • “Do I say something? Do I take that chance? …I know how this is gonna go, and I’m too cynical to almost get into it.” (Jared, 11:37)
  • He relates this to a single friend who only hooks up with former partners because “I’ve seen how the movie plays out. I don’t want to go through that again.” (Jared paraphrasing friend, 10:50)
  • Both hosts reflect on how cynicism or fear of pain stops people from pursuing new connections, especially as they grow older.

4. The Pressure of Holiday Relationship Milestones

• [22:16-32:46]:
  • First listener email: Woman dating boyfriend for 2 years but they’ve barely done a formal “meet the parents”; she’s anxious about inviting him to her family’s Christmas Eve “the one” rule.
  • Discussion about timeline/milestones for meeting family:
    • “Two years [with no family meeting] is a lot.” (Jordana, 24:28)
    • “A serious relationship is one where you’re integrated into each other’s lives. It’s not ‘what am I doing for Christmas this year’—it’s ‘what are we doing for Christmas?’” (Jordana, 28:09)
  • Jared calls out “outsourcing” relationship decisions to parental expectations rather than advocating for your own desires:
    • “At some point you have to admit, ‘I like you enough to invite you to my family thing.’” (Jared, 29:20)
  • They advise having a direct conversation and note that holidays often act as pop quizzes for relationships.

5. Petty or Prudent: The Ornament Dilemma

• [35:01-45:14]:
  • Listener broke up with her boyfriend of six years 11 months ago; wants her sentimental Christmas ornaments back.
  • Jordana and Jared agree it’s prudent, not petty, to reach out for truly sentimental items even after time has passed—but advise making the request as convenient as possible for the ex.
    • “If it’s so sentimental, as she describes it, then this person she’s reaching out to knows that... So she has a bar.” (Jared, 40:48)
    • Sample script is suggested for the ask, emphasizing clarity and logistics over emotional ambiguity.

6. The Book Gift from the Guy Best Friend

• [46:28-57:54]:
  • 25-year-old listener receives a rare, meaningful copy of The Great Gatsby from her male best friend (“L”) of nearly 20 years; her boyfriend finds the expensive and sentimental gift inappropriate, sparking debate.
  • Both hosts agree: This signals the friend is probably in love with her, and ignoring that aspect is a form of denial.
    • “To men, it’s so obvious… this is his line in the sand.” (Jared, 50:03)
    • “Not acknowledging it is [attention-seeking]. Not being like ‘no, this is weird,’… that’s humility.” (Jared, 54:46)
  • They discuss the complexities of “friend zone” friendships, male-female dynamics, and how to be honest with a partner about possible hidden feelings in such friendships.

7. Red Flag or Deal Breaker: Mocking Holiday Enthusiasm

• [62:04-69:55]:
  • Listener describes a holiday story: A man abruptly ends a date when his companion mocks his cheer about Christmas (doing a voice). Is it a red flag or deal breaker to have someone mock your enthusiasm for something you care about?
    • “I would say mocking someone would be a very clear deal breaker, especially on a first date. It’s like you’re making fun of someone’s enthusiasm.” (Jordana, 67:13)
    • Both agree that playful teasing is different from thoughtless or mean-spirited mocking.

8. Red Flag or Cultural Quirk: The $5 Christmas Gift

• [70:02-74:09]:
  • Email from a Swiss listener marrying into a Dutch family with strict, quirky Christmas rules (max $5 gifts, mandatory poems). Is her husband’s $10 bottle of olive oil in a heart bottle (with a poem) okay?
  • Hosts see this as harmless and “a green flag”—a thoughtful, creative tradition:
    • “To me, any traditional, thoughtful thing that a family does, I think that’s the coolest.” (Jared, 74:08)

9. Santa Belief at Age 21?

• [75:16-79:53]:
  • 23-year-old man writes: Is it weird or a deal breaker if his 21-year-old girlfriend repeatedly refers to “Santa got me” re: her Christmas gifts, appearing to genuinely believe in Santa?
  • While both hosts suspect she’s being cutesy/childlike, they’d find it odd if it’s not self-aware:
    • “It’s weird. …You don’t need an innocent, nice woman. You need a woman who can match you mentally, physically, erotically.” (Jared, 79:53)
  • They compare it to adults using “mommy/daddy” as terms—cringe unless self-aware or in proper context.

10. Holiday Family Traditions

• [74:13-86:45]:
  • Jordana and Jared wrap up with musings on Hanukkah vs. Christmas, family rituals, and the pressures of making holidays fun for future kids.
  • “Jewish holidays… There’s no good part of our holidays for a child.” (Jared, 86:18)
  • Jon Stewart’s comedy about Jewish families competing with Christmas is referenced.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Two years, not meeting the family. How do you feel about that?” (Jared, 23:54)
• “A me has to become a we at some point.” (Jared, 28:31)
• “Beware of holidays, bar mitzvahs, family occasions, global pandemics. All these things are forced pop quizzes of what this thing is.” (Jared, 27:33)
• “I think like, if your family’s input matters at all, wouldn’t you want it a lot earlier than ‘I’ve already decided I’m gonna marry this person’?” (Jordana, 25:13)
• “If it’s so sentimental as she describes it, then this person… knows that.” (Jared, 40:48)
• “Not acknowledging it is [attention-seeking]. Not being like, ‘No, this is weird’—that’s humility.” (Jared, 54:46)
• “I would never return the favor with something as meaningful or expensive as this for this person.” (Jordana, 58:53)
• “Mocking someone would be a very clear deal breaker, especially on a first date… You’re making fun of someone’s enthusiasm.” (Jordana, 67:13)
• “Santa got me a bunch of gifts this year. I don’t know what I’m gonna have to return to the North Pole.” (Jared, 78:40)
• “Jewish holidays… There’s no good part of our holidays for a child.” (Jared, 86:18)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:53–04:28 – Holiday costumes, chest hair, family holiday costumes banter
• 04:28–08:13 – Jared’s book tour, pre-orders, friend’s reading habits
• 08:13–12:58 – Barry’s Bootcamp, hesitation in flirting, analogy to dating risk-aversion
• 22:16–32:46 – Main listener email: Christmas as relationship milestone, “meet the parents” timeline, integration
• 35:01–45:14 – Petty or Prudent: Sentimental ornaments post-breakup
• 46:28–57:54 – Best friend’s vintage book gift, boyfriend jealousy, handling “the friend zone”
• 62:04–69:55 – Red flag/deal breaker: mocking holiday cheer on a date
• 70:02–74:09 – Dutch Christmas: $5 gifts, poems, harmless cultural quirks
• 75:16–79:53 – Santa at 21, childishness and deal breaker status
• 74:13–86:45 – Hanukkah vs. Christmas traditions, family rituals

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Episode Tone

Lighthearted, irreverent, and honest, with plenty of self-deprecating humor, direct advice, and insight into the social rituals and minefields that surround modern dating—especially magnified around the holidays.

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Perfect For…

• Listeners navigating holiday anxiety with partners
• Those wondering about relationship milestones or “tests” during the holidays
• Anyone dealing with exes and the politics of sentimental keepsakes
• People suspecting “friend zone” dynamics and secret crushes

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Summary prepared for listeners seeking the best of relationship insight and holiday laughs, without having to relive every family dinner themselves.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Santa.

[B]

Okay, this is. This is Delray Beach Santa.

[A]

Delray Daddy Santa. Okay, Midlife crisis Santa. Look at and his elf.

[B]

Hello, and welcome back to the U up podcast.

[A]

I'm Jordana Abraham and I am Santa Freed. Ho h. Merry Christmas, Jordana.

[B]

Merry Christmas. I We are here as promised.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In our, you know, as Santa and his elf Santa.

[A]

Sexy Santa.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Midlife crisis Santa and his pregnant elf.

[B]

We are like some, like, weird. Some weird, like, Borno Christmas situation.

[A]

You're right. I always get into sexy Santa having sex with a pregnant elf. That's kind of my category. Yeah. No, yeah. This is like. This is like the most progressive Christmas. You know, it's like very. A very New York City Christmas going on in here.

[B]

Indeed. I love it. This is more chest hair than we've ever gotten from Jared on. On camera. So enjoy it. If you're not listening on YouTube.

[A]

Yeah. If you are not watching.

[B]

Sorry. If you're not watching on YouTube, you.

[A]

Need to check I In my chest hair, known throughout the country in the shape of an eagle. A phoenix rising from the ashes. Nice. Yeah. It goes in and then out in a. A winged formation.

[B]

Is that what you ask for at European Center?

[A]

When I go to European, I say, samantha, put the phoenix on me. And that's what I do.

[B]

They call that the Jared Freed. You can order it, right.

[A]

It's a special. You get your. I got my eyebrows done.

[B]

I they look good, too. Wow.

[A]

I I Samantha, European Wax center on LaGuardia. She's my go. I never let anyone. When the first time I went in there, I was like, she's like, do you want me to do your eyebrows? I was like, no. No one touches these brows but me.

[B]

Have you had you ever gotten them wax?

[A]

Never gotten them waxed. Never. I only plucked them. I would do them myself. And then I was like, well, maybe I was. And she's like, you let me do them. I do a good job. I'm like, that's like a, I was like, this is like a lot of trust. I'm giving like cuz when you do eyebrows on men, badly or anyone, well.

[B]

It has to be. It can't be so good that you can't be manicured. Right. Or that it looks like it's been done right.

[A]

I have to look like. I was like, oh, yeah. My eyebrows were just. This is what happens. I've never even, like, looked at my face.

[B]

They look very good.

[A]

Thank you. No, she does a good job.

[B]

So we'll have to compare last week's video to this week's video.

[A]

Take a look. Do it back and forth. We'll see. Get a close up of both brows because it cleans up your whole face. So I, Yeah, so got my back waxed yesterday so that could be ready for sexy Santa today.

[B]

Looks great. And you said you have no Christmas erotica this year. Well, again, we're gonna share on the Instagram the Christmas erotica from last year. Please do.

[A]

Yeah, let's share last year's.

[B]

That traumatized the whole office.

[A]

It really did. I think that scared me out of poetry for the rest of my life. I was like, I think I'm done with poetry.

[C]

Now you.

[B]

Now you. There's my ear. Now you have a complex.

[A]

You can wear this for your Christmas. You're gonna have a Christmas.

[B]

I am. Generally they don't dress up as Christmas characters, but maybe I will.

[A]

I think that'd be fun. Like, what would Mike's mom say? Like, they take this, this holiday very seriously.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what would you come down in the morning and you're like, hey, everybody. Would they be like, pumped or would they be like, hey, what's the joke here?

[B]

I think they would love it, right? Yeah. They'd be like getting into anything that gets you into the spirit. They love that.

[A]

They love a good spirit.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I think you do it. I think you could dress Ronnie up. You get Ronnie a costume.

[B]

Oh, I should, yeah, I should definitely.

[A]

Get Ronnie a Santa costume. You wear the elf costume and then come downstairs, reindeer. That's right.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

There we go. So I, what else is going on? Anything? I, I, I, I mentioned this last time, the book. You can pre order my book, Sexy Santa and All his Hoes. Oh, is that not the name of the book? No, it's called Walking Red Flags, my friend. The baby read it. Oh, yeah, yeah. He, he, because he wanted to give. I was like, give Me some notes. I need some outside perspective.

[B]

And you have a few friends who read even if you don't.

[A]

I have friends. No. Well, the baby and I. The baby does most of my reading.

[B]

You're like, he's my nerdy friend.

[A]

Well, yeah. When he bought. Did I ever tell you about his engagement ring?

[B]

Oh, yeah. You said he. He reached. He did all the research.

[A]

He bought a book on engagement ring. So because he was like, I don't feel comfortable just buying an engagement ring. He was like, it just feels so crazy to me. And he's like, I'm gonna buy a book and learn about it. Like, just so I can come to terms with like, what this all means. Which is like, way more thoughtful than I would be. Like, to me buy a ring, shut the up. Give it to her so she'll you again.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Him. He's like, I need to like, come to terms with this. So he bought the book and I was like, how about I'll give you half the money for the book so that you can explain to me afterwards? And he was like, great. So I gave him 10 bucks and I was like, there we go. So now the book is out. You can pre order it right now. Walking red flag. He his.

[B]

Why haven't I gotten it?

[A]

Well, it's not out.

[B]

He.

[A]

I can send it to you if you want to read it. I needed some notes.

[B]

It's digital.

[A]

No, it's not anything.

[B]

No, I'm saying like, if you, if you send me a heart, like a. A full paged copy or, you know.

[A]

I can send you like what they've sent me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's not out.

[C]

A galley.

[B]

A gal as they call it.

[A]

Yeah, I think they call it a galley. So it's like a PDF version I can send. Do you want to read it?

[B]

I don't want to read it on a computer. I want to read it like on.

[A]

A Kindle with a. Yeah.

[B]

Or like in my hands.

[A]

Well, then you're not going to get. Okay, when I get those. All right, then you're out.

[B]

All right, bye.

[A]

This was the baby. Was I. I asked him. I was like, no. I was like, I need to like, there's like, we're in final voracious reader. Yeah. I'm not a big reader, so I don't know how this all works, but they were in final edits. That's why I was so surprised it's released. Yeah. Because I was like, wait a minute, we're still editing this thing though.

[B]

Like you're like, just a preview. It's not like, you're totally.

[C]

I.

[B]

He.

[A]

He got back to me. I mean, he was. He's usually pretty real with.

[B]

How long did it take him to read it?

[A]

Like a day. He reads.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

Yeah, he's a reader, so he was like.

[B]

And.

[A]

And he had a great note for, like, a fix to make that I appreciated. And then he was like, it's good. He's like. It's like re. He's like, there's some lines that really, like, hit me.

[B]

Oh, I love that.

[A]

I was like, that's really nice. So you.

[B]

Did you do a dedication?

[A]

Yeah. You made it.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

The baby made it. I'm sorry. Joe and V. You guys didn't make it.

[B]

Parents raising you to be a walking red flag.

[A]

That's what a. What a win for them. Every day, I'm just a prize for them. They get to see me on YouTube dressed as a. Yeah, a porno Santa. The American dream walking red flag. So, yeah, so the book is out. I'm on the road. If you're in San Diego, I'm there for New Year's. Philadelphia, sold out. Baltimore, New York, Atlanta. I'm coming. So jaredfree.com for tickets. I'm. I got. Still got cities. Tempe, Atlanta.

[B]

I love that. Maybe you're back in New York.

[A]

Charleston. Charleston, if you're out there. Charleston, New York. I'm doing a show in New York. So the New York one. We sold out two last time at Town Hall.

[C]

We're.

[A]

We're pretty much through with one almost. I don't know if we'll add a second one, so. You better get that ticket now.

[B]

Let's get it.

[A]

Otherwise, I went to Barry's boot camp last night. As much as it doesn't look like it in my Santa costume, I. I get it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I had to, like. I had to bring today. I was like, I'm going as this. I thought this would.

[B]

Do you feel like you're cheating on the Delray Gym?

[A]

I do. I feel I like Barry's, but I was. I was next to a girl. I was wondering what you'd think of this line. I saw her. I didn't say the line. I was, like, debating whether I should say something. She took a selfie before the class, as some people do, you know, they get on the treadmill and they go, like. They do, like, the head tilt. Like, I'm at the gym and I knew. I've seen the selfie.

[B]

Was she ashamed of it a little bit or.

[A]

No, she took it twice. She didn't seem too ashamed. I mean, the second time, you really are bought in. And I looked at her, I was like, and she's doing the thing and I, and then I like, kind of like go on my way. I'm doing my, you know, my stretches and all that stuff. And then we came back to like the second round. You do rounds, so you go to the treadmill, go to the floor. Then you come back to the treadmill and she picks up her phone and I was going to look at her and go have the post do.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I didn't, I was like, I don't know. I think that's it could be interpreted.

[B]

As you making fun of her.

[A]

Did it get any likes? I mean, I am.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But in a way that's like, I want to talk to her.

[B]

But you don't like when people do that to you.

[A]

I, I know, but I don't like when they do it over. I don't like when they do it over Instagram in person. I got a, I got a DM the other day. Last night, this girl wrote, we're pretty good looking. You know, we're, we're above average looking Jews. We should get a date. We. Yeah, right. Speak for your fucking self. I'm a porno Santa. Okay? I know. I didn't like that over dm.

[B]

So if someone said that to you in person, I feel like it would be different.

[A]

I feel like in person is way too. Listen, I do stand up. I write things all the time that bomb. I think they're the funniest things in the world. And then I go on stage and I say them and I go. And literally as the words come out of my mouth, I want to grab them and put them back in. I guess you, because I don't know what it sounds like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I know that as a standup, so I don't know if people know that, like, that written and how it comes off can be different, Right?

[B]

Yeah. And I guess you get tone. Although I could see you still being offended if someone said that to you.

[A]

I don't know. I, I, I'd like to think I would.

[B]

Maybe you wanted to have sex with them. Maybe not.

[A]

Right? Depends how hot that. Well, that's the point is, like, if I said to her, how many likes did it get? And she's like, what? And I'm like, the post, the selfie. And she's like, oh, off. That means she doesn't think I'm good looking.

[B]

I guess she's not attracted or she like, doesn't or. She is very. She's sensitive.

[A]

I feel like sensitive is, like, when I'm only as sensitive as off.

[B]

So you didn't say it?

[A]

No, I didn't say it. I pulled back, and I was thinking about something last night that happened. I was at the Cellar, and I'm doing shows, and it's, like, late night, and I'm talking to a friend, and he's older and he's single. Or. No, he's in a relationship.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But he was talking about how before he got in the relationship, he. He started talking about how he used to. He'd only hook up with the same girls, never a new girl.

[B]

He had, like, a rotation.

[A]

He's like, I only hook up with people I've hooked up with before.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And I was like, what's the reasoning? And I go, what? Why? And he goes, I've seen how the movie plays out. I don't want to go through that again.

[B]

What does that even mean?

[A]

Well, I actually understood it completely. That's the weird part. I was sitting there, and I'm, like, thinking. I'm, like, hearing this, being like, well, that's kind of fucked up.

[B]

What movie?

[A]

Basically, the movie of how it goes with someone you meet. Like, and it's weird that. How much I connected to the statement. Like, it's a little sad, but, like, I connected to the statement of, like, why say to the girl at Barry's, hey, look at the selfie. Because I know how this is gonna go. Because I'm. And I'm too cynical to almost get into it because we're gonna.

[B]

You know, you don't want to take the chance.

[A]

Taking the chance would involve me, you know, probability at. I think at a certain age, you're kind of like, man, if I even go this far, I'm gonna feel as bad as I've felt in the past with other people that this has gone that far with. So you almost, like, revert to doing nothing, right? And, I mean, he even.

[B]

Did that guy want to be in a relationship at some point?

[A]

He's in one now, but he's like. And I. He goes, but now I just watch porn. Like, it was like, I know you made. It was sad. It was sad. But then also, I kind of was like, it's weird how much I get what he's saying. Like, I think, like, that was like, you know, there's a. There's two sides of me. There's the side that's, like, laughing along with him. Like, wow, I totally get it. And then there's another side of me that's like, jared, do you want to be the guy who totally gets it? You know, Like, I'm not saying it's a. A worthy. Sorry. My nipples are your nipples. In the middle of the episode, I just started playing with my nipple at this point. Offend the Christian people? I don't think so. So I. Yeah, I just. It was like. And then I connected it kind of to this morning where I'm like, you know, you're like, do I say something? Do I take that chance? And it's like, what's gonna happen, Jared? Well, no, we're gonna fall in love. You know, and then you go, you can't lose that.

[B]

Right?

[A]

No, I heard it from him. I understood what he was saying.

[B]

He's like the pigeon woman.

[A]

He really is. But it's like, you can lose it, you know? You know, you can lose the whimsy, you can lose the, the sparkle. You can lose the pizzazz. You can. You lose, like, yeah, all those, all the stupid things. And I hear from it a lot because people feel they can confide in me, like, because I put out, you know, jokes about being single. So they're like. And they think they're joking, right? And they think, I get it. And they think they're joking. They think they're funny. And I'm like, again, when it says it out loud, you go like, he was kind of. Yeah. You go, oof. Okay. Are you okay? Like, no one wants to hear to their, like, thing that they think they're joking with you. Are you okay? But I.

[B]

Right where you're like, oh, I was. No, yeah, I was joking, but not really, right?

[A]

Yeah. So no, no Christmas season, I was like, you know, I think if you're out there and you're single and you're, you're having, you know, if you connect with that man, I don't try because I know it's going to go badly. Like, I think, like, well, that sounds very.

[B]

Just defeated.

[A]

I think there's a lot of people out there like that. I mean, like, this is a guy that in a relationship, you know, he. He's saying this as someone who doesn't feel he's defeated. What he's saying is fact, Right?

[B]

Well, it's only defeated if you're like, I would like a long term relationship.

[A]

I think everyone wants a long term relationship. This whole idea, like, I get asked that all the time. Do you want to find. Do you want to be in a relationship? It's like, do it. Yeah, of course. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't understand that perspective. Like, it's not like we're out here and there's 50, 50 people in relationships, not in relationships.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So to say to someone, do you want to be in a relationship? Okay, that's actually asking, do you want to live a weird life? And it's like some people might, but I'm saying I'm not gonna, like, I'm.

[B]

Not according to Leonardo DiCaprio.

[A]

Right. I, I mean, Leo, I'm. He has made his. I mean, he always has a girlfriend.

[B]

I guess, but I think it feels like he's got a girlfriend that knows that she's not going to be his long term.

[A]

But that's his whole. That's kind of what he's doing, right. He needs connection. He does end up with someone just with this, like, built in kind of. I, I would say Leonardo DiCaprio and this guy and myself are very much the same. I'm the Leonardo.

[B]

Three of you three musketeers.

[A]

That's us. Just we're the same guy. Same looks, same feel. No, but I'm saying Leonardo DiCaprio has that quote, unquote rule as we think he has it. We don't even. Right. The 25 year old rule that we all know he has, but we, like, he's never really said it, right?

[B]

I mean, if he said it, it would be really weird.

[A]

Well, that's right. But let's say that's his rule or the PR agent has kind of said it in as many words and. But Leonardo Caprio has that because he's afraid of feeling pain, Right. He gets in front of it in the same way. This guy only hooks up with people he's hooked up with before and that and that have half an understanding of how he operates.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So we're all the same, you know, like, we're all just trying to like side door away from pain. We're all trying to take an easier route.

[B]

Right? But when you do that, when you get, when you give up, when you like, don't take a risk in order to remain comfortable. Remain comfortable. It's hard to grow.

[A]

Listen, I am saying it out loud to you and on this podcast as a way to tell people that I feel the same way as them and I'm, I kind of like, I say it out loud because I fear it and I don't want to become that.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And I say it out loud because I think that, you know, there's a value to saying it out loud. On this show. Because I think it, like, if you just keep it in, you do it right, you know, you, you go, you don't say it, but when I heard it back to myself, he said it so perfectly. He's like, it's a movie I've already seen and I don't want to play that out again.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I was like, I've done that with so many people where I've not done the next thing. That would have been exciting.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Chance taking, you know, a risk. And you go, do I really want to tell someone, hey, I'm just too busy to be in a relationship right now again.

[B]

Right. But don't the people that he hooks up with, he's saying, he's saying he still hooks up just with the same people. Don't those people get tired of his and move on?

[A]

Apparently they're looking. I think, I think, you know, there was like a meme way back when. Like, you know, you're looking for someone whose trauma matches your trauma. You know, like I, I think there's a yin and a. Yeah. Like, I don't think it's all him. You know, the idea that all these men are master manipulators and, and, and also don't know what. They have no emotional capabilities.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not, not true. So, like, just like these, these women aren't being had.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, like, they don't. Maybe they were my sexy Santa suit. What's that?

[B]

Maybe at 22 they were being had, but I don't think they're being had. The older you get, right.

[A]

I think we all live and learn, right? So I don't know. Merry Christmas. This is my way of saying, don't lose hope.

[B]

Where are you going to be on. On Christmas?

[A]

I don't know yet. My mom invited me to a party in Boca. I was like, I don't know if I should do that there. I do love doing stand up on Christmas Eve in the city. Yeah.

[B]

Come back.

[A]

I might come back for a night and then fly back out on Christmas day and then be at the beach. But I don't know.

[B]

I haven't really wear this to the beach.

[A]

This is the Santa beach outfit. This is like, this is like what you see when, like there's an NFL game on Christmas and then they go to like Miami beach and there's like a guy dressed as Santa on the beach. You know, like, this is what he's wearing.

[B]

Did you grow a beard?

[A]

I had one today. I just shaved before I came here. I, I was, I didn't even remember I should have done.

[B]

I mean, if you're.

[A]

You're gonna be Santa, I. I'm in all my hoes.

[B]

You know that rush you get when.

[C]

You find something cute and it's on sale?

[B]

That's the thrill of the deal.

[C]

And Rakuten takes it to another level. I am a huge Rakuten user. I have the little widgets installed on my phone, on my computer, and to me it's like a no brainer. Like, why wouldn't everything I buy, I check Rakuten to see is there a percent that they're giving back on anything that I'm.

[A]

I'm using it because of you. It is honestly so easy, so wonderful. And it's like when you start using it, you think of all the days.

[B]

That you didn't use it right and.

[A]

You get mad at yourself.

[C]

Yeah, there's no reason not to use it.

[A]

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[C]

And that is how you live a fiscally responsible life.

[A]

So make sure you don't miss the highest cashback rates of the year with the best holiday sales. And keep an eye out for Rakuten Weekly. Big Deal reveals where one great store offers high cash back for one day only. Membership is free and it's super easy.

[B]

To sign up, download the free Rakuten.

[C]

App or go to rakuten.com to start saving today.

[B]

That's R A K U t e.

[C]

N rakuten.com Join today for a new member welcome bonus after minimum qualifying purchases, terms and conditions apply. This episode is sponsored by Abercrombie. If you're heading home for the holidays, Abercrombie has you covered. Their new winter collection has everything to keep you looking put together, even when your schedule is anything but. Their matching sweatsets are basically your holiday uniform. Cozy, cute and perfect for the airport. If you have a lot of travel ahead and back home, you've got family dinners, festive nights out, running errands, and last minute shopping. No problem. Cozy sweaters and Abercrombie denim fits every plan and every vibe. Honestly, the holidays are hectic enough, so Abercrombie just makes looking great way easier. I love all of my Abercrombie sweatpants and Sweatshirts. I have this amazing, like, grout fit sweatpants, zip up combo. It is the softest, most comfortable thing. I wear it everywhere. I wear it to do my errands. I wear it to brunch.

[B]

Literally.

[C]

I cannot wait to get home and put them on. So check them out. Get your holiday style sorted with Abercrombie. Abercrombie drops new arrivals every week. Shop in the app online or in stores.

[B]

All right, should we get into our.

[A]

Yeah, let's get into the episode. What's going on with you? What are you over sharing? All I did was, you know, all I do was talk about oversharing.

[B]

Check it out. We got a great subscription stuff over there. And fun episodes. You know, I always send you. A lot of people come right in about things related to you.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. You heard it?

[A]

I mean, well, yeah, I put in my 2 cents on overshare. It was fun to listen a few of those.

[B]

You know the woman who's like, took her parents to your show and they told her she wasn't funny.

[A]

Yes, the not funny one that. That, like, is. And then I think that, yeah, they came to the special taping. Yeah, yeah, that we're trying. That's special, man. We're trying to get so funny.

[B]

It's gonna be out there.

[A]

I just texted the guy from Netflix yesterday. I sent him like a. Like a situationship type of text. Like, what are we the kind of. No, I literally.

[B]

You don't. Right.

[A]

I'm either if anyone knows anyone Netflix.

[B]

Or I'm gonna wait around here.

[A]

Right. All right, let's do the episode.

[B]

All right, let's do it.

[A]

What are we talking about today?

[B]

All right. Hi. I'll read our first email. Hi, Jared and Dranna. Happy holidays. Love the show and long time listener. I have a question for you about loved ones and the holidays. I have been dating my boyfriend for two years. I'm 29, he's 33, and we live in New York City. I'm from upstate New York and my boyfriend is from Philly. I love him so much and things have been going really well. We definitely see a future together. We're both very close with our families. And just this past September, I met his family. He has met mine as well. But it was a brief visit since I was just picking something up from my childhood home and my parents were on their way out, but I counted as we've met each other's families.

[A]

Let me stop this for a second. Does that count? So let me reread this. It was a brief visit since I was just picking something up from my childhood home and my parents were on their way out, so it doesn't sound official. Hey, heard a lot about you. Nice to meet you. We gotta go, right?

[B]

Like, it's not the same.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They've met, technically, but in the past. Yeah. I wouldn't call this like a. I would call it a no sign. Wouldn't call it a good sign.

[A]

It's nothing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Now Christmas is coming up and I really want to invite him to my aunt's annual Christmas Eve party. The problem is my family is very old school and believes that whoever you bring home should be the one. It's a weird rule. How do you relate?

[A]

Well, I mean, that could be just how she feels, too.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

You know, I. It's. These gloves were not the expensive ones. They don't move the screen.

[B]

Another touchscreen.

[A]

Was that sexy? Me pulling off the glove.

[B]

I feel.

[A]

Chime in on YouTube comments.

[B]

So, okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

They've been dating for two years. Okay.

[A]

Two years, not meeting the family. How do you feel about that?

[B]

That's weird.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When do you meet the parents?

[B]

Within six months.

[A]

Within six months of dating someone?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Does age matter? You're 22. You're dating someone six months in.

[B]

I still think that's. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

22 is. I think if I. I think if I had a kid and they were dating for someone and they had a boyfriend of six months, Right. I would be like, why would I. When can I meet?

[A]

Where am I?

[B]

Yeah. You don't think?

[A]

I do think. I. I think, like, that's one of those things I hear and I'm like, good point.

[B]

Two years. Crazy.

[A]

Two years is a lot. And then to, like, count the passing each other in the hallway.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Nod.

[B]

Hey, maybe there's some exceptions if your parents live across the country.

[A]

Right? But this is not that, right.

[B]

Doesn't sound like that.

[A]

Well, but also, we have to take into account her rule. The rule that her family has. You better be the one. I don't think that's the rule.

[B]

I don't think that's a weird rule.

[A]

I don't think it's written above, you know, the kitchen, you know, doorway.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, let me.

[B]

Let me finish it and then I'll. I'll give my two cents on that, too. I feel ready, but I'm scared it might be too serious of a step. Is there a timeline or milestone that makes it appropriate? Do you need to be living together before bringing someone to a major family holiday? When is actually the right time to include your significant other in family holiday gatherings?

[A]

How do you feel about this?

[B]

I feel like it's really weird to be like, don't bring someone home unless they're the one. And I get that they're not saying that explicitly, but to me, it's like, if your input. If your family's input matters at all, wouldn't you want it a lot earlier than, like, I've already decided that this per. I'm gonna marry this person.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it puts a lot of pressure on it. It takes something that could be smaller and makes it bigger. But for everybody, meeting the parents is different. Meeting my parents, not that big a deal when I was in my 20s. Now it's a bigger deal in my. That I'm 40. So I think what she's doing, and it's what a lot of us do, and I don't think she's wrong for. I. I think what she's doing is like, it would be annoying to me if I was the boyfriend.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's outsourcing her decision making. So instead of being like, I really like my boyfriend. I really want him to meet my family. She's going, well, they. The family's decision. I have to. The family says they have to be the one. He and I have never really discussed, when do we meet the family? It's like him. His opinion on meeting your family is of no con. Is of no interest to you.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You have to decide how important is it for me to have someone meet my family? Does it mean that they are the one to me? Doesn't mean it's less than that, but it really is on the road to being more serious. You know, like, I.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I've had that issue where I've introduced people to my family and it wasn't like a step for me. But then I came to find out that like. Or I came to realize or matured into realizing that that says something to someone else. And that's like a highly. That a step like that needs to be communicated.

[B]

Yeah. And I mean, speaking personally, if I was in a relationship with someone for two years and they're having a big family holiday party and they don't even think to invite me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That would be a very weird. On my end. I would question the seriousness of the relationship.

[A]

It's also weird that he doesn't say anything. How much does he care?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, if I was dating someone and wasn't sure about it and they didn't invite me to their Big holiday, you know, extravagance. After two years, I would, I would be kind of getting away with something. Something like, if I wasn't sure, I'd be like, thank God they didn't invite me to that. Right now I don't have to make a decision now. I don't have to like, be put to task with how I feel about this and where I see this going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Again, beware of holidays, bar mitzvahs, family occasions, global pandemics. All these things are, are, are forced pop quizzes of what this thing is.

[B]

Right. And I think it's weird that they haven't discuss that.

[A]

Right. Well, what they're doing is they're pushing off the test.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They're two years in, but they may as well be a month in. Honestly, like, what are they doing?

[B]

Right. That's what I'm saying. If you're not, if you're not being in. To me, like a serious relationship is one where you're integrated into each other's lives. It's not what am I doing for Christmas this year, it's what are we doing for Christmas?

[A]

I know, and I've done this, I've talked about this on here. I've had this happen so many times where a woman that I'm dating will be like, what's the Chris? What's the Thanksgiving plan? And I'm like, well, I'm gonna go home and I'm gonna, you know, go hang out at my parents house.

[B]

You're not on this, right?

[A]

You're not on the same page.

[B]

Like, can you imagine if I said to Mike, what are you doing for New Year's?

[A]

Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. You know, a me has to become a we at some point.

[B]

Yes. And that's when, you know, it's like, again, that's, I think like a. That's really the sign of a serious relationship. It's not necessarily time.

[A]

Well, you know, but also it. We have to figure out what this comes from. Is it her being afraid to lose her relationship so she asked no questions? Is it her not being sure that she wants to be in this? And she's like, I'm just gonna ignore the whole holiday thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because if she does, she has to admit her feelings. It can't be. Here's what will get her in trouble. Here's where this, this seems like the easier. This is the easier route, but it never is helpful. Well, if they like me, I like them. That never works. That sets you up for a really uneven emotional Relationship that you're getting into with someone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And at some point you have to admit, I like you enough to invite you to my family thing. Now your parents saying, are they the one? And dealing with that, that's something you have to like, that's on you. That's on you. That's not his problem.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But right now, she is either letting him off the hook or making him feel weird. I don't know which it is. He might be sitting there going, the fights. It is weird. She doesn't invite me to this family.

[B]

Thing after two years. This is a conversation that makes. That you would. That is a great opportunity. And you can think of these things as like, oh, my God, I have to like, deal with this. It's like, no, this is a great opportunity to have a conversation about, like, where you stand two years in.

[A]

Right. Well, but. And again. And this is a position I get into a lot with women where. And I, I'm just saying, like, it happens to me all the time. What are you gonna do? Tell me what you're gonna do and then I'll decide what I'm gonna do. And it's like, I fucking hate that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It always feels like I'm the one that's deciding whether we're in a relationship or not. It's never a joint. I, I feel this in this email, right? Like, if she just said, I really want you to come to this holiday, like be damned the world, right? That would be like, that's the moment where you either bring in someone to your holiday occasion or you're breaking up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But both will be fruitful. Both will be okay. You can move on from someone that was never going to be more than it is, or you guys get to move on from this purgatory of a relationship that you're in that's not growing and not getting bigger and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Moving down the road.

[B]

And if you're. It sounds like she's scared of scaring him.

[A]

It could be. Right. That's. That, that's the assumption I would make too.

[B]

Which after two years is not great.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I think you're afraid of hearing what back from your partner.

[B]

That's a little serious for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

For after two years in your late. And she's in her late 20s, he's 30, she's 29, he's 33.

[A]

All the timing is here that. Well, that's the problem is like she's sitting here going all. Everything's set up. You know, this is game seven, two outs, bottom of the ninth. Is it the time she knows all of the things are like, we are either gonna get engaged next.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or we break up. And I'm woman who has a story on the dating apps.

[B]

Right. I can't imagine saying to my kid, don't bring someone home for the family holiday party unless they're the one I would like. I just think it's such a weird way to think of it. It's like I would want to. I would want to see how they integrate into these things before I would, like, feel comfortable know, like with the person saying they're the one.

[A]

It's either her family said that because her dad's the dad from Dirty Dancing who doesn't want dancing in his town, or it's how she's interpreted how they feel about things.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which I'm not saying like it's a woman with her feelings. I'm just saying we all do that. Your parents say some things and then we take it a certain way. And I'm just saying she needs to. She needs to take some ownership. I think she's way. We have a lot of women that write in here and they're ready and mature and all this stuff. And I'm just saying to her, she is absolute as mature as she sounds and how as on it as she is, she's avoiding.

[B]

Right. This is your life. It's what you do for the holidays. Bring the person you're with there if you want to.

[A]

Right.

[C]

This episode is sponsored by Bilt. It's almost 2026 and you're still paying rent. Without Bilt, we can't have that. BILT is the loyalty program for renters that rewards you for your biggest monthly expense rent. With Bilt, every rent payment earns you points that can be used towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases and so much more. And when you pay rent through built, you unlock access to exclusive benefits from a network of more than 45,000 merchants. Just link your credit cards, spend at your favorite local spots, earn build points on top of your regular card rewards and get one step closer to that trip you wanted to take. Personally, I'd redeem my points for some Amazon purchases because literally I cannot stop buying stuff there and this would really help me out. Build points have been ranked the most valuable point currency by the points guy and they just announced build cash, a way to unlock even more value from builds partners. It's simple. Paying rent is better with built earn rewards and finally get something back for being a renter. Join the loyalty program for renters at join built.com/UUP that's Jo I N B I L T.com/UUP make sure you use our URL so they know we sent you.

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[A]

You you pitches dot com. Let's do another email. You ready?

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Petty or prudent? We love petty or prudent. You're dating someone, you break up, you gotta do something after the breakup. Is it petty or are you being prudent? Is this necessary?

[B]

It have to be done.

[A]

I need a petty or prudent ruling. I'm hoping you guys will go get to it before Christmas passes.

[B]

Well, it's Christmas Eve.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

We got it.

[A]

Santa freed and his trusty elf are here to save the day. Ho ho ho. How would sexy Santa. Ho ho ho ho. No, no.

[B]

That sounds like devious Santa.

[A]

Okay, how about ho ho ho.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Oh, oh.

[B]

I think you got to be like upbeat with like a little wink.

[A]

Ho ho ho. Was that it?

[B]

A little better.

[A]

Okay, we're getting there. We write to edit. Love you guys. I'm obsessed with the pod and all your advice. I did the complete opposite of what you all recommended in a recent show about breaking up after the holidays when you know you need to get the deed done beforehand. I broke up with my ex of six years on January 2 last year. And then promptly read an article that January 2 is the most common breakup day of the year. We have got to get our. Get your word out.

[B]

Did you know that I thought it was like the most common dating app download day, but maybe they're the same thing, right? Break up, get on right away.

[A]

There's a gravity to all these things.

[B]

What do you think is the. How long should you wait to get on an app after.

[A]

After you break up?

[B]

Yeah, I think we've tars maybe mentioned something.

[A]

I think the minute you break up.

[B]

You can get on.

[C]

You.

[A]

You are allowed to get on, what you're allowed to do and what you.

[B]

Wake up in the morning, someone tells you they see them on the app that evening.

[A]

Like, well, that's the thing that everyone. But I say that only because people are like, well, it should be this. It should be that. This. It's like, well, if both parties know that they are single, that's fine. Really the most technical. If it were me, I would take a month either way.

[B]

If you were broken up with or did the breakup.

[A]

I think a month as far as healing is concerned.

[B]

Yeah. Depending on how long the relationship.

[A]

Right. Like. But like a month. Like a month gives you time to breathe. It can. I think if you're running, I think you're doing yourself a disservice.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If you do it before a month.

[B]

I think if you break up with someone, it's tacky to download. If you're breaking up with someone, it's tacky to download an app the same day.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's tacky. Tacky doesn't mean wrong.

[B]

Fair.

[A]

Tacky means you will be judged.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

A month later, the judgments become less.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, just think of a group of women having brunch and seeing your profile. How would they react? A group of women who are friends with your ex, how would they react to seeing your profile on the day you download it?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Would you be defended by the people who want to defend you the least? Probably not on day one.

[B]

Not on day. Definitely not.

[A]

A month later, you would be. You'd have a couple people going, I've been there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's got a date.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Everyone's got to find someone. But for every seat.

[B]

Honestly, even two weeks.

[A]

Two weeks is fine. But I'm saying. Yeah, you'd have less defenders.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Two weeks, some chick at the end of the table digging into the table pancakes. Who does that after two weeks?

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Right. But then there'd be the one single girl who's done that after two weeks going. But she's not gonna, like, loudly.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, fight the woman who's been married for five years, yelling, two weeks. You know, Right. I know everyone at this table. I broke. I broke up with my ex of six years on January 2 last year, then promptly read an article that January 2 is the most common breakup day of the year. We have got to get our. Get your word out. So my ex of six years still has my Christmas ornaments at his place. They are inexpensive, but they're super sentimental. Can't really be replaced. We're not on speaking terms. He was pretty hurt by the breakup, so I'm worried asking will reopen old wounds. Is it petty to reach out just to get my ornaments back, or is it reasonable to ask for something that belongs to me? I guess it feels petty because we are no longer talking. He will be hurt if I reach out. Happy holidays and huge congratulations to both of your exciting new chapters. Thanks for the advice. Is he grinchy, or am I greedy?

[B]

Okay, so she's writing about a breakup that happened 11 months ago.

[A]

No, six years. Oh, her boyfriend of six years and it happened 11 months ago. Well, she said years ago.

[B]

No, my ex of six years.

[A]

Oh, my ex of six years. They dated for six years. It's been 11 months.

[B]

Yes, it's been 11 months because she broke up with him on January 2.

[A]

2025, and now she has ornaments and now that don't cost a lot, but they're sentimental. And now it's seven. And it's actually Christmas time.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And it's okay. The tough part is, is it's been a bit. Been a minute, and I can see why.

[C]

I would.

[B]

I can see why, one, they wouldn't want to hear from you after that long. And two, you know, we've. I think we've said, as a rule on this show, like, you've got, like, a month to get your shit back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it's.

[A]

And then, like, gone. Tossed. Right.

[B]

This is a little different because it's, like, seasonal, and you might not think about it until now.

[A]

Right. It goes into a box in the basement, and you only think about it, you know, November 26th.

[B]

Right. So I could see this being an exception. Here's the thing.

[A]

Is it petty, though?

[B]

Is it petty to ask?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think because they're sentimental. If it was because it was just the money, I think it'd be petty. If it's like your grandma's ornament from her childhood Christmases and you have to kind of weigh, like, the uncomfortableness of reaching out to a person who doesn't want to hear from you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And how much you want it back.

[A]

I don't think I've heard a more prudent, petty or prudent.

[B]

You think she should do it?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And everything you're saying is like, why I believe that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If it's so sentimental, as she describes it, then this person that she is reaching out to knows that they did it for six years. So if he doesn't know that these are sentimental ornaments, they're not that sentimental. So she has, like, a bar.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? So let's say they are as sentimental as she says, which would mean that he knows that they have emotional value to her now. His feelings are not her problem. She has no idea after 11 months how he's doing.

[C]

Right.

[B]

He might be over it.

[A]

Right. He might have gone to therapy or spoken to family.

[B]

Dating someone new.

[A]

Dating someone new. This might have. This breakup might have been the best thing that ever happened to him.

[B]

Right. And 11 months is maybe when you would figure that out. Yeah.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Even if you were mad. Right. When it happened.

[A]

Totally. And it's Christmas time and you need ornaments for Christmas, like, Right. All of this is prudent. So all of this, like, is a straight line. There's. I think, when it becomes petty is when you're taking right turns to try and get someone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And this is all down heavily prudent. Totally prudent. Here's the thing. Don't make your problem his problem. Make it as easy as possible on him because someone was hurt from the breakup, will grab on to anything they can as far right. To be victimized or to make this about, oh, they must like me. Or, you know.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Maybe this is their opera, their window to reach out to me.

[A]

Right. And it's holiday season. People are down. People are up. It's emotional.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you got to create a scenario where you have to say to him, it's got to be one text with all the information.

[B]

Craft this text for her.

[A]

If I'm her, hey, this is totally out of the blue and random, and I'm so sorry to reach out during the holidays. And you might not want to hear from me, but you have some ornaments that I know, you know, mean a lot to me. I really need them back. They mean a lot to me. They mean a lot to my family. I have a box that I'm gonna leave outside of your house for you to put them in. I will pick up that box Saturday at 10:00am if you want to put it in that box or put in your mailbox, whatever it is, set it up, you know, put in. I'm. I, I can plan on being your house whenever it is convenient for you.

[B]

That I think is a better.

[A]

Saturday.

[B]

Morning at 6:30am Right. Well, make sure that you're not home.

[A]

You. I plan. I would love these ornaments back. If you could place them in your mailbox at a specific time and let me know that time, I'll come by and grab them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I just really need these ornaments.

[B]

You want to throw in like a Hope all as well.

[A]

You could do that or something. Hope all as well. If he tries to continue the conversation, you can say, hey, this is really just about the ornaments. I'm not trying to extend the conversation.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it's petty.

[B]

If he doesn't give him back.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Maybe he doesn't know where they are.

[A]

That would be like he might have thrown them away. Yeah, I might have said this.

[B]

That's possible.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In which case, what do you say to that?

[A]

Hey, I threw them away. I. I would write back, hey, I threw him away when we ended things, you know, again, by our rule, that's actually prudent for him. A month later he went through the box of you know, of girlfriend's past and he said, let me get rid of these things.

[B]

And again, if he. I mean, assume if he threw up. Unless he's a monster. If he threw him out. He didn't know they were so sentimental.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or they're already on my tree. I'll give them to you next year.

[A]

I'm petting a doll made out of your hair while I look at your ornaments. Thank you. Yeah, I just think make it. Because any man thinks any. Reach out. Here's the thing.

[B]

He might. What if he doesn't answer?

[A]

You lost the ornaments. He's being a little petty. You're two adults. We're just trying to move on with our life. We're just trying to be on this big old marble called earth.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. As long as she's the one who's like, make it as convenient as possible.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Send out the ask. If he doesn't answer, he's being petty. But like, you just got to move on.

[A]

Here's the thing about men. We very rarely don't want to fuck you ever again.

[B]

Even if you. Even if we broke up with you.

[A]

That's right. That's the thing. Once you have been attracted to us, we think you're attracted to us forever. It's a very male thing. So this whole idea of like reaching out and being nice. Nuh.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Keep it to math, Keep it to schedules. Keep it to what you need. Keep it down the middle.

[B]

I have a hypothetical.

[A]

Yeah, go ahead.

[B]

Let's say she remembers the sentimental ornaments. Let's say she breaks up with him during Christmas season. They've already decorated the tree at his apartment. Her ornaments are on the tree?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it petty to take the ornaments off the tree?

[A]

Totally prudent.

[B]

And bring them with you?

[A]

Totally prudent.

[B]

Avoid this conversation.

[A]

Totally prudent. Leaving, putting place them in your ornament box. No, it's prudent. They don't mean anything to him.

[B]

If.

[A]

They bought them together. Yeah, but if they bought the ornaments together and they meant something to both of them and I'm taking the ornaments.

[B]

You know, like that would be.

[A]

That's petty.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But if they're.

[A]

I'm taking our dog too. He's mine. You know, like if they're her ornaments.

[B]

You can physically remove them from the tree and take them with you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think if I would hope he.

[B]

Would be gone when I would do that. But. Yeah, right.

[A]

I mean people have done.

[B]

You do it. You're. You're removing them as you're breaking up with them.

[A]

Hey, I've really been thinking about this relationship. Why are you taking the ornaments off the tree? No, I'm just doing some house cleaning. So you know, I haven't been in love with you about six months. Just love it all. Let's do another email.

[B]

Let's do it. Hi JJ longtime listener, first time writer. I'm a 25 year old woman and I'm really torn about a situation that felt sweet at first and now feels messy.

[A]

I love the range of ages we get here. I think this is really a show that I'm proud of that we help so many different types of people. See. So just want to put that in 25 year old woman. Like what? I don't even know what I would talk to a 25 year old woman about.

[B]

TikTok.

[A]

How are your tiktoks and your dances doing? Yeah, it sound 100 but I'm happy she connects.

[B]

Same. Some backstory. I have a guy best friend, let's call him L who I've known since. Since 6, 7, I assume 6, 7 years old or not another. Or unless this is a Gen z. Gen Z.

[A]

6 7. Right.

[B]

Unless this is a inside Gen Z.

[A]

People get so upset about six, seven. Or maybe that's just an Internet Thing where it's something to talk about that people connect to.

[B]

Like they think it's stupid.

[A]

I don't have any opinion. I'm just like, you shouldn't have any opinion.

[B]

Right, right. Neither should I.

[A]

But we, yeah, we, that. But that's, that's the hard part about getting older.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Is like the minute you start going and these kids doing six, seven, like you're just like.

[B]

It's so interesting. An old out of touch.

[A]

Right. Well you start to realize you're like, oh, all those like old people who are like. And the kids with their tick tocks like and getting angry about it. You're like, oh, they just had no personalities.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like to be mad at six, seven, like these kids like doing it. Yeah, like whatever.

[B]

And this, this woman has known her best friend since 6.

[A]

I also think I was like since.

[B]

June 7th or like 6 or 7 years old.

[A]

I don't want to the other one of the two. I don't know. Every time I see a little kid going six, seven, I think it's the funniest looking thing. Yeah, it's cute, right?

[B]

It'd be weird if you were doing it.

[A]

If I was doing it, I would need an intervention.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like sit me down, Jared. You just did six, seven, you're 40, right?

[B]

It's time to get off TikTok Right. Some back. So, okay, so. So I've known since six or seven years of age. I'm adding that in there.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Same school, family, friends. Our siblings are friends too. True. Family friends. I have been dating my boyfriend for eight months to the issue. Each year my friends get together and visit home and we have a small holiday dinner. At the dinner, Elle gave me a vintage copy of the Great Gatsby for Christmas. What is this, a rom com? I mean that's like a vintage copy. It's a very sentimental book because years ago when we lived in different countries, he read it just so we could see the movie together. It is still the only real book he has ever finished. It is a long running joke between us. Okay. My boyfriend found out the book is worth a lot of money and now thinks the gift is inappropriate. He wants me to give it back or have Elle keep it. I feel like it was thoughtful, not romantic. We've been fighting about it for a week. My mom says let Elle hold onto it for now. My dad thinks my boyfriend is being ridiculous. My friends are split. Am I wrong for wanting to keep the gift confused at Christmas?

[A]

Now what do you think of this? I hope my reactions to this Email were caught on camera, eye rolling as.

[B]

You hear the whole thing.

[A]

As I hear this woman talk about this friend who just wants to buy her a vintage book.

[B]

Expensive vintage.

[A]

It's the only book he's ever read. And here's the thing, nothing sounds okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

[B]

Here's the thing.

[A]

I'm just enraged.

[B]

Does this person want to have sex with her? Yes.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Is that her problem? Not really.

[A]

This is the friend zone conundrum. Because to men, it's so obvious. That's why her boyfriend's like, hey, this book that costs a lot of money. This is his line in the sand. This is like, he's watched this.

[B]

That cost a lot of money.

[A]

Well, he's watched this friendship where this guy obviously has a thing for his girlfriend. He's taken enough. This was like the last straw. There's probably a number of stories and things that have gone on with this family friend where the guy she's dating is like, doing. What I would do is eye rolling this guy, right?

[B]

Would you make your girlfriend return it to him?

[A]

No, but I would say, you know, there's a point with every man where you're like, I gotta say something. And I. Maybe you say it the wrong way. Which I think saying, don't take this gift from him is kind of the wrong way to play it. But you, you have this all the time and it. Sometimes it's not even insecurity. It's just like, dude, back off.

[B]

Right? Well, he hasn't done anything.

[A]

He's done nothing wrong. But you, you go, is it appropriate? Is it we've known each other, same school, family, friends, or true. It's not an inappropriate gift. It's inappropriate how little she's acknowledging that this guy's in love with her, right? And that's where, like, the friend. It's funny because you're like, is it a problem that this guy loves her? For her, it's like, no, but she's getting something out of it. Like the friend zone is someone playing the part of friend to try and get with you romantically, right? The whole idea of, like, I'm their best friend when you really like them. No, you're a good actor who's lying so that this person realizes the error of their ways and comes back to you as a romantic partner. Like, so it's just like when you're the guy who's like, honestly dating this woman and you're like, putting it all out there, you're being committed, like, we don't know the Boyfriend. We don't know his deal. We don't know his jealousy issues, but based on how this is written, this seems to be the one fight they've had about it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, and you go, I'm just seeing the boyfriend side, where you're like, can you just be real for two seconds and go, hey, this guy's in love with me. Yeah. I just want this. This book is pretty awesome. Like, you're like, I. I.

[B]

Would you be okay with that if she was like.

[A]

I would look at her in a different way. I'd be like, oh, you take advantage of just some guy.

[B]

How is it taking advantage? Like, she thinks of him as a friend. Okay. Known each other since they're six.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Seven. Like, what is she gonna be like, off. Stop getting me.

[A]

But I. I think there's. At some point we gotta have an honest conversation about what's going on here.

[B]

I think she should have the honest conversation with the boyfriend.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. With the boyfriend. She doesn't have the honest conversation with the guy if he hasn't said anything.

[A]

Well, there's got to be. I think it starts with a boyfriend. I think, like, and. And that's where he's gone wrong to say, don't take this gift. Like, he's almost, like, pushing her into his penis.

[B]

Because.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because she's not acknowledging that it's weird.

[A]

Right, Right. Right. So that this is a communication issue between her and her.

[B]

Here's how I would do it. If I got a gift from this guy, I would say, I got this gift from L. It's really weird. It's. It's actually. It feels like, a little inappropriate. I, like. I actually love this book. But, like, I'm kind of getting. You know, I'm sure you've seen it. I kind of get this weird feeling like he has, like, kind of into me, but, like, he's my family friend. I've. And I would give my feelings about this person. We've always been really good friends. I'm not sexually attracted to him. Never have been.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I would say that if that was true. I don't know if they've ever hooked up.

[A]

There is nothing that is. Everything you're saying is exactly what she should say.

[B]

That's what you'd want to hear.

[A]

Right? That's what I would want to hear. I want to just feel bad for him. No, but can we live in reality? Yeah, that's the thing. This is what gets, like. I think people so mad at the person who doesn't acknowledge that someone Wants to them. Like, you don't want to be.

[B]

You know, you don't want to be braggy.

[A]

Right. This is what it comes off. So, like, such a liar, you know? Like, you know when someone just doesn't acknowledge that there's someone out there who's, like, actively hitting on them and they still have you as a partner, you're kind of feeling as the partner, you're like, how much attention do you need? Like, I can't provide at all. Like, this isn't enough for you. I. And listen, what about what she's doing.

[B]

Is saying, I need this attention.

[A]

Not acknowledging it is. Is. And not being like, no, this is weird. Like, what you just said is acknowledging it. That's. That's you being like that. There's a little humility. There's a little. When you say, like, yeah, it's a little bit of a weird gift. You know, maybe he has something for me, but I don't know. I've never really felt anything. All of that is vulnerability, right? That's you saying, I am kind of accepting this attention that might be coming from a place that I don't want to admit it's coming from.

[B]

Sure, but how do you not accept attention from someone who's just, like, in your life?

[A]

Well, I think it becomes, this is the beginning of the end. Like, relationships change, of course, but. But that's the problem. I. You know, it's funny because this email is making me, like, remember a certain type of person. You know, sometimes we get an email and I'm like, I remember that feeling, that feeling of dating someone that's like, not really. That's going to. That that's acting as if the world is black and white and that there's no change to anything. Like, they're my friend from childhood. That's it. And you go, well, yeah, but now you're 25. Your friend from childhood is 25, and you haven't spoken in 10 years, but now he's still getting you vintage books and texting you every time he feels sad. And you go. And it's like, can you admit that? Like, maybe they have changed, but maybe you. You. Their view of you has changed.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And maybe that, like, you know, it's like, if I was. It's like when people write in about being friends with an ax. To me, this is the same. Like, things have changed. Yeah. You guys could be friends after you guys broke up because you were both single and you both confided in each other with, like, how tough it is to be on the apps.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And then you found someone.

[B]

Now the friendship changes.

[A]

Now do you need that person? For what? What do you use them for? What are you getting out of this? And they're like, well, we, you know, I still keep in touch. I want to be nice. I don't want to be mean to someone who I genuinely like, but don't want to see a future with and don't want to date, and that's fine. But, like, at least when you say that, I think when she just says it's a gift.

[B]

Right. Why are you. You're kind of gaslighting the person into making them seem like they're crazy when it is. I wouldn't say it's inappropriate, but it does. It, it's extremely meaningful for someone who, you know, again, I think there's, like, a clear sense of this person has strong feelings for you.

[A]

Right. I, I, that is vague, too. I think, like, we don't know how the feelings the friend has for her.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We have no idea. So let's say on a spectrum, it's he's in love with her, has been in love with her his whole life, and it's kind of turned into this, you know, joke that he holds on to about the Great Gatsby. Or he just sees her as a friend and values their friendship. Both could be true.

[B]

You just said that it's not possible that the second.

[A]

I don't, I don't believe. I think chances are slim.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But from the boyfriend side, he's going through the same thing we are. We don't know. It's on a spectrum.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, yeah, you kind of need to.

[B]

Give him the assurance.

[A]

Right. You need to give him insurance. So, you know, do you say no to the gift? Hey, I'm accepting the gift. But also, I admit, like, this is like, a weird circumstance.

[B]

He might be into me. I have absolutely. I've never had any sort of.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Sexual or romantic feeling towards him.

[A]

Totally. And if I was a boyfriend, I would like to hear, do you feel the need to tell him that? Do you?

[B]

I would say no.

[A]

Okay. But that would be my question. As a boyfriend, I would be like, do you feel, do you ever feel weird by him? Do you ever feel like, you know, this, that you're, you know, holding on to this person for reasons that aren't a friendship that are a little bit more.

[B]

Okay, so let's play this out. So you say that to me.

[A]

Do you feel that you're holding on to this family friend because it kind of like, serves you like, ego wise?

[B]

No. I feel like this is a person that I've known since I was a kid. They've never said anything. If they ever said anything to the effect of, like, proclaiming a feeling for me, I would say something. Then it seems unnecessary to me to be, like, proactively saying, I don't want to. This is a. This is a purely platonic friendship to someone for no reason. If he hasn't crossed. If he hasn't crossed what I've seen to be, like, a line.

[A]

If you found out a decade from now he's been obsessed with you your whole life, would you feel badly?

[B]

No, because that. I wouldn't. I don't think I've done anything to contribute to that.

[A]

Okay. I'm just saying I can't help how someone else feels.

[B]

But I don't think I need to, like, break up with someone who hasn't said anything to me about wanting to be with me.

[A]

Right. No, that's fair. But you can also see how this is, like, a winner.

[B]

Of course, I would never return the favor with something as meaningful or expensive as this for this person.

[A]

Right. And here's what my move would be. If I were the boyfriend, I would say, that sounds great. We should hang out with them more.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was like, we need to all hang out. Because that would.

[B]

But wouldn't that be counter to your feeling of create some distance with this person?

[A]

No, I would say that to me, it would be like, if they're such a good friend to you, I wanna make sure that they're a good friend to me. And I wanna see. And what will end up happening is that guy will start saying no to hangouts and he'll see. He'll. He'll either become my best friend and we all get along, and that's great, but there's someone important to you, so I want to make sure they're important to me as well. And I like. Like, to me, I'm living in a world where he never hangs out with this, like, guy who's obsessed with her.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But that might not be true. So maybe they hang out all the time. And then this gift came out of nowhere and he's being. He's overreacting.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I do think with this, like, friend who you're, like, worried about, I think bringing them in is a better way to go.

[B]

Is it that you, as the boyfriend, would feel like it was disrespectful to you that this guy is getting your girlfriend this meaningful gift?

[A]

No, it's. It's more that I think as, as a man who has friend zoned women that he liked myself. So I know how this person might be operating. If it's the case, you're kind of like, okay, I don't want someone working behind the scenes behind my back to.

[B]

Try to like plot against me.

[A]

Right. I'd rather like, listen, if I was around both of them and I was like, oh, the relationship is totally normal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, it would make me feel more comfortable. And he's a cool guy. Like, oh, he talks about his dating life. We're figuring this out, you know? You know, like I, I, I think like to me, if you're dating someone seriously and they have a friend that you never come contact with and I think it's a little weird if they're a good friend. Yeah, right. Yeah, supposedly. But that's the thing. Like, are they being held on one side and you on the other side? I don't know. I, I find it weird that he's as crazy. There's more to this story, right? Like to not to just be like no gifts from him. Yeah, that is a little bit, you.

[B]

Know, like the wrong way to do it.

[A]

It's a. Yeah, it's a little garcon from Beauty and the Beast. When the holidays start to feel a.

[B]

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[A]

Let's play some games.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

UUP.com keep sending in your red flag or deal breakers. You're dating someone, one thing happens. It's either a red flag, you notice it, you keep going, or it's a deal breaker. So we got some holiday themed ones right here.

[B]

I'm enjoying enjoying jingling the jingle.

[A]

I forgot.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Last year it was on the hat.

[A]

This year, nothing makes you feel like it's the Season. Then that jingle.

[B]

A little jingle when you walk down the street.

[A]

Yeah. You gotta get Ronnie. This the reindeer.

[B]

I do My cute. My cute little rock.

[A]

Here. I'll give you this costume for Mike.

[B]

The whole family.

[A]

Yeah. Give this to Mike's dad. Hi. Riding in with the red flagger. Deal breaker. I'm a subscriber. Huge fan. Jordana, I'm so excited for you and your baby girls. My friend and I assemble the group chat to see Jared whenever he's in Chicago. Have also gone to the U up live. Bring it back on tour. Okay.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Anyways, want to share this story? Because I would love to see you debate this. I was setting up Christmas baskets in front of our building and this guy walked past, kind of lingering. So my guard weight went initially up this email. Let me just start with. Tough to read. Okay.

[B]

Not the best at the grammar.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

It's a lot. I understand what she was trying to do. It's just a lot of moving parts. So stick with me.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He. So she's setting up Christmas baskets in front of the building. So she's doing like the stuff I would never do. Okay. She's taking care. Very nice of her. To keep spirit alive at the building. Okay. Guy lingering around. And her guard goes up, which I would imagine any woman would feel. Just a guy lingering around. Right. He approached and asked, do you want to hear a funny story? At that point, I'd take out my mace.

[B]

You'd hold it next to you.

[A]

I'd be like, you'd have hands on the keys in the claw formation.

[B]

I'd have hands on my phone.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Just in case I needed to call someone. Yeah. But if the person. If I'm attracted and the person's like, do you want to hear a funny story?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I would be like, that's the kind of thing. Creepy. Creepy or cute.

[A]

I obviously was nervous of what was about to come out of his mouth. He goes, so I was just on a date on that coffee shop. You walked by with those trees. I had these large Christmas tree baskets in a wagon and had wheeled them from the back of my building and a wagon for my car.

[B]

Like Mother Christmas.

[A]

I mean, my God, good for her. Yeah. So he goes, my date says, why is this woman coming by with two full ass Christmas trees? And the guy I'm talking to? So the guy. The woman is talking to, the guy who's telling you the story says, you know, I replied, it's Christmas time in a. In like a fun way. And he goes. So my dates goes, it's Christmas time in, like, a mocking way. And the way he described this with, like, facial expressions, making fun of me, saying, it's Christmas time. So the guy I'm talking to goes. So I said, okay, nice meeting you. I'm going to leave now. So the guy was like, thank you for. She told this story in the least.

[B]

I get.

[A]

It's kind of hard.

[B]

It's hard to tell because it's like I'm gonna rehash. She's telling someone else's story that was told to her.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

You'll do a summary after.

[A]

She could have done a little bit of a reread.

[B]

So the guy could have helped her with this.

[A]

Yeah. So the guy was like, thank you for saving me from this awful man. So a guy's on a date. He sees her pass by with the Christmas trees. The guy he's on a date with is like, what you doing with all these Christmas trees? The guy then looks at her and goes, it's Christmas time. Looks at him and says, it's Christmas time.

[B]

And then the guy goes, wait, are these two men?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are you sure?

[A]

The way she describes it, it's a gay man.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Which, fine. I think that's why. I think it also adds to the confusion of the story.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Now.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Because I. I thought it was. I'm confused. Okay. Right.

[C]

So.

[A]

So two men are on a date. I mean, I can now it sounds like I'm telling a street joke.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Two men.

[B]

I mean, now that I know, it's too. It takes away the idea that this man is hitting on her by telling her this.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which I originally saw.

[A]

That's kind of where I thought the story was going as well.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's not where it was.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

She's setting up the Christmas trees. Guy looks at her. She notices him. He's like, I gotta tell you a story.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

She's like, okay. He's like, I was just on a date with this guy. You pass by with the trees.

[B]

I see. And I didn't even understand.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I read it in front of me.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

So I. I read this, like, five times. So. And then you pass by with the trees. So I. The guy goes, what was that girl walking by with all those trees? And I go, it's Christmas time. And he goes. Which. Quite a aggressive way to be on a date with someone.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you imagine doing that to someone with something they said?

[B]

Very. A little snarky for a little. A lot. Yeah.

[A]

So the guy was like, thank you for saving Me from this awful man. I thought it was so funny picturing me walking past this coffee shop and being the reason this guy came across his own deal breaker. So she was the one who made it so he left the date.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So red flagger, deal breaker. You're on a date and your date mimics your response about Christmas cheer. It was a deal breaker for him. And props to him for getting up and leaving. I'm not sure if I'd be able to be that direct. So I guess the.

[B]

The.

[A]

The red flag of deal breakers. It could be any time of the year. It doesn't have to just be holiday cheers. You get excited about something and they mock you that way.

[B]

Yeah. I would say mocking someone would be a very clear deal breaker, especially on a first date. But that even that way, it's like, not like she said something funny to make fun of him. That was like, cute and funny. Seems, like, mean.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like you're making fun of someone's enthusiasm.

[A]

Right. And for, like, liking Christmas.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And being pumped about it.

[B]

And not even a clever way.

[A]

Right. It's like the least clever way. It's actually the least thoughtful of jokes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, order a drink to the waitress.

[B]

Me?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'll have a dirty martini.

[A]

Dirty martini. Like, it's such an thing to do. Right.

[B]

It's not clever. Again, but if you.

[A]

Extra stone, blue cheese.

[B]

But if I ordered a dirty martini and you were like, wow, you're really into olives. Let's say that there was olives in the beginning of the. Of. There was some olives in the middle of the table. And then I ordered a. A dirty martini. I said, can I get three olives?

[A]

Whoa. A lot of olives for you.

[B]

Yeah. Like, that's kind of making fun of me, but, like, not in a. I mean, not in a clever way either, but like, not in a. Olive.

[A]

You're gonna be hungry for dinner. Is there a pun?

[B]

Okay, what if I ordered the dirty martini after eating the olives on the table? And then you said like, wow, it's like a pretty high salt content. Would that be a deal breaker?

[A]

It wouldn't be a deal break. I'd be like, yeah, I guess.

[B]

How's your cholesterol?

[A]

You have a salt issue. Yeah, I guess it would be aggressive.

[B]

That wouldn't be as bad as dirty work.

[A]

No, the voice is what does it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I'll have a margarita. So annoying. Yeah, Especially, I guess, you know, there's.

[B]

Like a playful way to, like, call someone out or make fun of them.

[A]

But does it have two men on a date. Like, I don't know, doing that to a woman feels like really, Like I'd be like, whoa, is he gonna like, is he dangerous? Like, it's like. It would piss me off.

[B]

Right?

[A]

It'll piss you off.

[B]

Would you leave?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I think anyone. But is there like a.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is there more talking on two men on a date? It could be a little more catty sometimes. Right? That's. That's kind of where I usually.

[B]

It's like you gotta like kind of build up to being made fun of.

[A]

Right? Yeah. I mean, to do the. The mocking voice is really.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

You'd be mad at your husband for doing that.

[B]

Yeah, I would.

[A]

Hey, guys, come in. You know, like, if you were like, I'm gonna get the chicken ala vodka.

[B]

Right. That seems like, like very mean.

[A]

Yeah, More.

[B]

I'm thinking of it. So deal breaker.

[A]

All right, let's do another.

[B]

All right. Dear J and J. I, female, 36, started dating my husband, male, 36, six years ago.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

On our first Christmas together, we agreed on small gifts. I probably should have clarified what that meant and maybe cultural differences played a role. I'm Swiss, he's Dutch, and he's always earned considerably more than me. Okay. It's a lot to. A lot of factors here. Yes. Anyway, come Christmas, I was a little surprised when he handed me a small, neatly wrapped box, looking very pleased with himself. I unwrap it to find a miniature heart shaped bottle of rosemary infused olive oil. Probably 10 bucks max. He cheerfully said. Because you like to cook. When he saw my face, he added, it's a heart. Because I love you. Turns out his family has.

[A]

Do you love me?

[B]

You like to cook?

[A]

Oh, look at. Oh, the chef cook me a meal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Turns out his family has strict Christmas rules. Five dollar gifts for everyone except a secret Santa who gets 15 in a poem you have to read aloud. All very Dutch. How do you even find a gift under $5?

[A]

Wouldn't you pay the 15 to not do the poem?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you imagine? It's a stand up. You're like, roses are red.

[B]

Dutch Christmas sounds like a nightmare.

[A]

Brutal. $5. Like, I guess a lot of titty magnets in that house.

[B]

Yes. At certain stores. More than that.

[A]

You got to go to the dollar store or the buy some mini wooden shoes. I don't know what. Yeah, yeah. Dutch Christmas sounds brutal. A poem you have to read aloud. What is this, homework assigned? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

None of this was a deal breaker for me, even though my Dutch is terrible and I had to read the poem in front of everyone because my husband is kind, funny, and generous in every other way, but let's just say he's never lived this one down. Red flag or harmless cultural quirk? Thanks for reading.

[A]

I, I think this is, like, fine. Like, I don't.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, all that matters is we agreed on small gifts on our first Christmas.

[B]

That's true. You already discussed this.

[A]

Right. This is something you discuss, and then it kind of plays into how his Christmas has always been.

[B]

Like, they're more, like, kitschy. It's not, like, a real gift.

[A]

Right. And it's also, it's how you've always done things. Like, I, I, I don't walk into anyone else's house and be like, well, this whole tradition's stupid. Like, it's kind of nice that they.

[B]

Do this behind their back.

[A]

Yeah, you do it like a normal person. I just, I just think this is, like, it all kind of. Again, to reuse something I've been saying a lot. Like, there's a straight line here, you know, like, from, like, we do small gifts, and then here's your small gift. And here, read the poem. And this is how we do it.

[B]

Right. It would almost be weirder if the family gave, like, extravagant gifts.

[A]

Right. I kind of, I mean, like, listen, I don't do. I've never done Christmas. But, like, this sounds like a, like a very sweet, like, as crazy, the poem. But it sounds like, you know, there's thought put into everything. When you have to, when you can only spend $5, you have to really think about, like, that's true. What you're gonna get for someone. Gum. Yeah. Like, or. But even this, like, olive oil does.

[B]

Feel like if you're, if you're, if you're capped at 15. The olive oil with the heart is cute.

[A]

Right? You were like, oh, and they like to cook and has the heart. It's all there. And I don't know, it takes a lot of, like, the, the pressure out of it.

[B]

I think you meet your dream girl, and her. She has a family holiday where they. You have to write and read a poem out loud. She's perfect in every other way.

[A]

Yeah, you're. Oh, I'm doing this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Oh, I'm going crazy on that poem.

[B]

Yeah. Dutch Christmas erotica.

[A]

That's right. Roses are red, violets are blue. My girlfriend's been a hoe. What about you?

[B]

I'm sure her father's gonna love that one. All right, so we're okay with this.

[A]

Happy, happy, happy Holidays from From the you are podcast to you and your family, straight to your.

[B]

Okay, thank you. I remember now. I'm being brought back to last year's. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

I get carried away every holidays season. No, this is like a green flag. I think, like, any, to me, any, like, traditional, thoughtful thing that a family does, like, I think that's, like, the coolest.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's kind of nice.

[B]

And then you don't have to be, like, worrying about a big gift too.

[A]

Right.

[B]

We had. The thing about getting big gifts is you have to then give big gifts.

[A]

Right in my house. Did you have any traditions like we had? No, we have no traditions. We have a lot of things that we do, but it was never like, hey, this is our family thing every year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was no, like, my, my family was never, like, thoughtful or creative. There was no creativity.

[B]

Surprised, because you're pretty thoughtful and creative.

[A]

I, I, this is something I've tried to do right. You know, I write my poetry. I, Yeah, I don't think fan fiction.

[B]

Nothing that was, like, unique to us.

[A]

It wasn't right. And when I hear about it from other families, I'm like, wow, good for them.

[B]

Maybe I should start some, like, I.

[A]

Think this is the year where I.

[B]

Dress like an elf.

[A]

You dress like an elf. The reindeer. There's got to be something you can.

[B]

Do when you change out of that.

[A]

His dad has a matching costume. Both would be sexy Santas.

[B]

Yes. Love it.

[A]

Let's do another one. Last one. Jared and Jordana. I'm a, I'm a. I'm a guy. Huge fan of the pot. I actually found Jared through your YouTube standup. Whoa. What a what a side door to enter this world.

[B]

Love it.

[A]

Yeah. I putting up stand up on YouTube. If you the YouTube channel. I have. I got to push it. V is doing amazing work. We got behind the scenes from the tour. Just fun videos.

[B]

Unpacking your apartment.

[A]

Unpacking my apartment. Stuff from the seller. So go, go, go. Okay. I've been officially dating this girl for about a month. She's 21. I'm 23. We met on Tinder. Both of us were looking for relationships. This afternoon, we were hanging out and talking about Christmas. She started going through past gifts and kept saying, Santa got me me. At first I thought she was joking about what her parents gave her. But then she listed everything her parents bought and still insisted Santa got me them. And still insisted Santa got me them in a completely serious way. I just stared blankly and changed the topic because it got really awkward. Unless she was messing around with me. She seems to fully believe Santa gives her Christmas presents. She's from a pretty religious family. She's also really innocent and kind. This kind of feels like she believes in Santa. Can this maybe be a green flag that she is innocent and kind of seems like a red. This seems like a red flag. Right? Do you still believe in Santa at 21?

[B]

This is very funny.

[A]

This would be one of those weird things. It's like yeah, covet happened and yeah, we just didn't get into Santa.

[B]

And there's probably a whole cohort of people right.

[A]

That just know don't think Santa doesn't is like yeah, real.

[B]

This is crazy.

[A]

I think she meant it as like.

[B]

This is I think it's like a joke.

[A]

Well I think there's like the innocence part leads me to well, Santa got me this and like you're still talking about it.

[B]

It's almost like referring to your mom is like Mommy got me this.

[A]

Right. I totally agree. This is very similar to like daddy got me, mommy got me two people.

[B]

Like to someone you were dating.

[A]

Right. It's like you in your head voice said out loud.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like you don't know that people would be like kind of off put by this.

[B]

Weird.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Unless you're like literally under 8 years old.

[A]

Right. You just didn't make the evolution of like 8 year old. Santa got me to like yeah. So the gift I got like you say like a normal person or even.

[B]

If like you were going to be like yeah, if I I, I can imagine saying like and Santa got me this one. My parents are always like like literally still keeping up the thing of like saying that Santa.

[A]

Right. I don't even know how you would explain it. Like this one like these are laugh.

[B]

Yeah. Like these are, these are from like and these are from Santa. My parents actually like insist every year that these are from from Santa. It's like kind of absurd. But it's funny something like that.

[A]

Right. I wouldn't believe she believes in Santa Claus. Like that's like actually crazy. Like Right.

[B]

But it would be irritating to me if she like was referring to it in like that way without the acknowledgment that it's clearly Right. Like in the same way it would be off putting to me to hear a guy refer to his mom as mommy.

[A]

Right. You have at some point you have to reveal like I know this is like stupid.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right. 21 I I thanks buddy for writing in 23. He's dating at 20. I don't know. I Mean, like, be a deal breaker for you. It would be a deal breaker. I mean, I don't like when people call their mom and dad mom and dad.

[B]

Like, to you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's my mom.

[B]

My mom. Yeah. My dad.

[A]

That's my dad. Not dad did this.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, it's always off putting to me, so. I agree.

[B]

Even if you're like that in the family, like, if Mike was like, like, dad's coming over, you know, that would be weird.

[A]

Hate that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Too presumptive. Too. Like, we're not siblings.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I. Yeah. Santa got me a bunch of gifts this year. I don't know what I'm gonna have to return to the North Pole, but we're gonna have to figure this out. Yeah. Like, I. I don't. I don't know what you do. What do you do?

[B]

What do you do in that case? Like, I think it would just be, like, not a match. I'd be like, as someone who's doing. This is not.

[A]

Maybe they haven't grown up yet, you know, 21. But this guy's 23. I'm not saying he's the most mature person in the world, but, like, maybe you guys are on two different levels, maturity wise.

[B]

Like he said, she's very innocent.

[A]

Right. The whole innocent thing in kind. That's something very young men say.

[B]

Innocent kind is seen as like a good thing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Until a certain point.

[A]

I don't want any woman I date to be innocent or kind. I wanted her to be a who. So you feel better guilty as. No, I just want, like some.

[B]

A real.

[A]

A real human.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this is very living in the. I think there's a young man's version or there's also this, like, alpha bro, where it's like the innocent care of her. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like submission, submissive. Right. I don't know what other podcast this guy listens to. He's on. He found me on YouTube.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know where he's at. Let me. Let me try and help him as much as possible.

[B]

It's weird.

[A]

It's weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You don't need an innocent, nice woman. You need a woman who can match you mentally, physically, erotically.

[B]

Okay, one more. I'm throwing in the woman you're dating a woman. Her family has a Christmas tradition where two weeks before Christmas, they all the adult family members get together and write letters to.

[A]

To Santa about that actually makes more sense to me.

[B]

You're okay with that?

[A]

I'm okay with that. You're going like, I'm just like, I think that's fun. At least there's a tradition. Tradition. I would write a stupid letter.

[B]

You would write a letter?

[A]

Yeah. My letter would all be, like, with Santa. Like, I'd make fun of it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They'd have to be okay with me taking their tradition and making it my own.

[B]

But you would get into it.

[A]

Yeah, I would get into it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I like that. My friend sent me.

[B]

You wouldn't be like, this is ridiculous. Why are you adult children?

[A]

No. It would have to also be acknowledged. Like, yeah, we do this. We don't really believe, right? No, but we read them off to see how stupid we all sound. We laugh at each other. Like, that's kind of like, there's all of it for the bit. Would you like that? Would you be out? Mike's like, hey, we write to Santa every year, have your letter and said by 10, and I'm gonna read them at 11 to the whole family. Like, you'd get an opportunity to be creative and have fun with it.

[B]

That's true. I'd probably be pretty. I'd probably be better at it than he was, if I'm being totally honest.

[A]

You'd be, but you would do something fun with it.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

You know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My friend showed me the gift list from his kids.

[C]

Crazy.

[A]

Have you seen these?

[B]

I mean, I haven't seen.

[A]

They should start posting these things.

[B]

These. There's too many gifts.

[A]

One of them was like, I'll have a dragon, please. Like, how do you. What do you say to your kids?

[B]

A toy dragon? You get them.

[A]

I don't know. I don't even know what that means. A red or green dragon.

[B]

That's what it said.

[A]

Yeah. And I was like, dude, what's wrong with these kids? He's like, I don't know how long. I was like, you need to, like. I was like, do they know that you guys, you know, don't have the. He goes. He basically said. He was like, I gotta start telling the kids. Yeah, well, he. I was like. He goes, I have to tell him Santa doesn't exist so they can ask for more realistic gifts, right? He's like, because they think a magical fat man's gonna come in.

[B]

Whatever.

[A]

Right? So they're like, oh, you know, I'll take a Ferrari.

[B]

A horse.

[A]

Yeah. Drake May, the quarterback for the Patriots. I'll have him. You know, like, they're like. And they're showing me these lists, and it's so funny. He's like, I got to tell them, because these lists Are like, cr, I can't keep up.

[B]

Right. Well, why don't they just say, Santa has a budget?

[A]

Yeah. You could really play it up.

[B]

He doesn't have unlimited funds.

[A]

I would say Santa's going through a divorce this year.

[B]

Going through a divorce. The cost of the workshop has gone up.

[A]

Santa's on Ozempic. It costs a lot every month. It doesn't recover by his insurance. Yeah, I would. I. I was like, should I get them a gift? Would I. Would it be weird if I sent.

[B]

Here's the thing about getting a gift for the holidays.

[A]

I want to get them the noisiest, most annoying gift and I'm gonna send.

[B]

It to the kids with glitter.

[A]

Tough to clean up. Yeah, noisy.

[B]

The issue with getting someone a gift is that you kind of like now have to get them a gift every year.

[A]

Right. You're bought in.

[B]

Right. That's the issue. Having so many nieces and nephews.

[A]

What if. Oh, yeah.

[B]

It's sort of a thing where it's like, I can't really, I can't really start that because then it becomes like. And now I have like 11 of them.

[A]

Right. What if I wrote on the card.

[B]

This is a one time.

[A]

Hey, guys, I don't give gifts every year. I've heard you've been good. Like, I, I become sand.

[B]

If you clarify right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. There are rules with this gift. If I hear that you are a piece of shit this year, I ain't going to be back.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Santa J Train. Santa Train won't pull into town next year.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

The problem is it's, you know, it's my two friends I'm on a group chat with and I was like, one has three boys and one has a boy and a girl. So I'm like, the boys, I was like, are they all into the Patriots? And they were like, yeah, so what.

[B]

Are you gonna get em?

[A]

But then I got the girl. I gotta, like, I can't just assume they all, you know, like the Patriots. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I just was like, it'd be easy. What were you gonna get? No, the plan was to get them something that was annoying for the parents.

[B]

From the Patriots.

[A]

No. I started the pages and I was like. Then I thought of the girl and I was like, maybe I don't. I wouldn't be able to just get 5 of something. So why don't I get 5 VU? Remember those vuvuzuelas, the big horns? What if I got five of those?

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

Yeah, they would definitely Not. Not wanting you to give it. That would end your Christmas gift giving.

[A]

They'd stop giving me their address. Yeah, well, I might use UberEats to send some stuff over. You should, so.

[B]

Well, we did it.

[A]

We solved dating again. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays.

[B]

Happy Hanukkah.

[A]

Happy Hanukkah to you. What night is it? Do we have a night?

[B]

I think it. I think it's over.

[A]

It's over?

[B]

Yeah. I think it starts the 15th, so.

[A]

Does it start the 15th?

[B]

Yeah. So it's probably over by, like the 23rd.

[A]

I've never gotten.

[B]

Right transition.

[A]

That's right. 14th to the 22nd, so.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I hope you had a good Hanukkah.

[B]

I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was lovely.

[A]

I saw a video.

[B]

Did you get eight gifts as a kid? Never. No.

[A]

What are we, a bunch of losers? That was like, my parents, like, who gets eight gifts? You're a loser.

[B]

Parents don't really. It seems like you're not in a gift giving family at all. Right. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It was like, if you want something, just walk to the store.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's like. Yeah. Did you get egg nights?

[B]

Some years, maybe. When my parents were feeling more functional, nothing was, like, consistent.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But like, one night you'd get, like, a pack of pencils. It wasn't like you'd get it.

[A]

Well, yeah. Yeah. That was always the under. Under spoken about Hanukkah thing.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. Not every night was a good night for gifts.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you'd be like, is this. Oh, okay, I guess I'll wait till tomorrow for the big one.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Look at your parents.

[B]

Totally. But now I feel like it's annoying because Mike loves Christmas, so now I have to, like, compete.

[C]

Do you?

[B]

I think I'm gonna have to compete a little bit.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Of, like, I have to, like, like, that. Make them, like, Hanukkah, which is, like, sort of a objectively lamer holiday than Christmas.

[A]

Yeah, it's way lamer.

[B]

So I'm gonna have to, like, do some work to make it fun.

[A]

You know Jon Stewart, I opened for him a couple times, and he has a great joke about being Jewish and married to someone who's not Jewish.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, having to try and make.

[B]

The Jewish holidays more fun. Yeah.

[A]

And it's a really.

[B]

They're all about, like, fasting or eating, like, cardboard bread.

[A]

Yeah. It's, like, horrific.

[B]

There's no chocolate bunnies and shit.

[A]

There's no good part of our holidays for a child.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're all very adult. Like, I like Jewish holidays now because, like, it's just nice to, like, feel connected, I guess, right?

[B]

Or have a tradition of some sort.

[A]

Right? But the other shit, when I was.

[B]

A kid, here's an apple with some honey. Just as fun as Easter egg hunt.

[A]

Yeah, that's what we want. Well, we solved dating again.

[B]

We did it. We'll be back on Friday.

[A]

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