Is “Right Person, Wrong Time” Actually Real? ft Logan Ury

Summary

U Up? Podcast - Episode Summary

Episode Title: Is “Right Person, Wrong Time” Actually Real? ft Logan Ury

Date: March 18, 2026
Hosts: Jared Freed (comedian), Logan Ury (behavioral scientist, author of "How to Not Die Alone," Hinge’s director of relationship science)

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into one of the most perennial questions in modern dating: Is "right person, wrong time" actually real? Jared (subbing solo as cohost while Jordana’s on maternity) is joined by recurring guest Logan Ury to explore not only this theme, but also broader issues around timing in relationships, gendered timelines, the psychology of dating momentum, and much more. They share personal stories, listener emails, and the latest Hinge data to illuminate listener anxieties and break down some of today's most perplexing modern dating dilemmas.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up & Life Changes (00:42 - 09:00)

• Motherhood & Logistics

  • Logan shares what she loves and finds hardest about being a mom (more logistics, but more opportunity for silliness).

• Readiness for Life Changes

  • Jared reflects on feeling unprepared for the next "life phase" (settling down, parenting) compared to women who often seem more prepared—metaphor: women "build the nest"; men "swoop in" like eagles (06:04).

  "A lot of the women are building the nest… and I am this eagle… who’s gonna swoop in and now I gotta be in this nest that is very different than the cave I was wandering around in."
  — Jared (05:54)

  • Logan: The adjustment begins much sooner for women (pregnancy is a 9-month acclimation; men, often, become "dads" the day the baby is born) (07:25).

  "A woman starts getting used to it once she's pregnant… and the guy, I feel like, doesn't become a dad until, like, the baby comes out."
  — Logan (07:07)

2. Timing & Gendered Readiness (08:25 - 11:00)

• Many women feel ready for relationship milestones (engagement, kids) before men. Some of it is maturity; some is the biological clock. But not feeling ready doesn’t mean you won’t adapt when the time comes.

3. Personal Dating Reflections (12:13 - 20:26)

• Drinking on Dates
  Jared has stopped drinking on dates, noticing women seem relieved ("a lot of women are, like, oh thank God, I was kind of looking to wake up early tomorrow"), especially after moving from New York to Florida, where dating is more intentional (13:23).

• Self-Sabotage & Fear of Disappointment

  • Jared discusses how he sometimes pulls away before things get serious, grounded in fear of disappointing his dates and “being the guy” so many women write into the podcast about (02:47).
  • Logan relates this to empathy becoming a kind of anticipatory guilt:

  "You just have such vivid stories in your mind of how women feel when guys let them down. Like, you have an insane amount of empathy for them, but it also gives you a lot of fear: what if I am that guy?"
  — Logan (21:04)

• Validation & The Perpetual Single Guy Persona

  • Jared reflects on being encouraged (by fans, friends, even his own mom) to be the "single guy" for his podcast persona, and wondering whether a relationship would mean giving up the great aspects of his current life.

4. Hinge Data & Modern Effort in Dating (25:36 - 31:32)

• Effort as the New Sexy

  • Hinge data: 72% of women would prefer effort over wealth from their partner; “effort is the new currency in dating” (30:34).
  • Planning small, thoughtful dates is more important now than ever—“logistics is the new love language.”

  "It's not enough to just be a provider anymore. You have to have emotional intelligence and you have to put in effort and plan."
  — Logan (31:06)

• "Are apps holding back the good ones?" Myth

  • Logan dispels the myth that dating apps like Hinge "hide" desirable matches:

  "Every single person at Hinge is sitting there being like: how do we make better matches?... No one's ever like, how much time are you spending on here and how do we increase it?"
  — Logan (28:26)

5. Listener Emails and Case Studies

a) Boyfriend Never Plans Dates (30:23 - 39:39)

• Summary:
  • Woman frustrated her boyfriend never plans anything; claims he’s "stressed by planning" and claims his friends have "lower standards".
• Advice:
  • Planning is a skill; suggest using ChatGPT or simply choosing one thing a week.
  • But, "they have lower standards" is a red flag—he’s making his effort her problem.
  • It’s not about the plan, it’s about making her feel valued. If everything else is great, maybe accept it; if not, could be a dealbreaker. (36:43)
  • Relationships can be 50/50 overall, not always in every specific task.

b) 'Ick or Picky': The Voice Note Guy (41:43 - 45:41)

• Summary:
  • Woman is turned off by a Hinge date who insists on a voice note before they meet, even after she declines.
• Both agree:
  • The issue isn’t wanting a voice note—it's repeatedly ignoring a boundary ("This is really gross... he didn’t listen to her boundary").
  • Order of operations matters. Once a date is planned, don’t introduce new "tests".

c) Right Person, Wrong Time? (50:20 - 61:31)

• Summary:

  • 31-year-old woman ends a 3-month exclusive (but unlabeled) relationship full of minor fights. She wonders: Would this have worked if he’d been ready? Does timing matter, or was he just not right?

• Advice & Insight:

  • Logan: It wasn’t timing—it was incompatibility, since lots of disagreements happened in the “honeymoon period.”
  • Jared: If a man won’t put a label on it, he’s “buying time”—being open to being swept away, but not ready to commit.
  • Men often more romantic/delusional about love & timing than credited.

  "If it’s the right person, wrong time, then it’s the wrong person."
  — Logan (60:45)

  • Both note: Real, external timing issues exist (ill parents, moves, big life events)—but that's different from basic incompatibility.

  • Taxi Light Metaphor: "Men are like taxis. When they’re available, their light goes on… the next woman they pick up, boom, that’s the one they’ll marry." (61:31)

    • Both critique this for reducing relationships to luck and logic, stripping away some of the magic.

d) Red Flag/Deal Breaker: Only Good in Person, Not Via Text (65:03 - 75:09)

• Summary:

  • Woman dates a guy who’s great in person, but never initiates between-date contact.

• Advice:

  • Texting (digital body language, or DBL) is essential to connection at the start because it’s the only interaction most new couples have often.
  • If minimal text is fine for you, no problem—but if not, don’t downplay your need.
  • Married & older people might not get why it matters, but it’s not “just turkey and bread”—text is the pepper jack cheese (67:08).

  "I think she needs to say, this isn’t that small to me... It matters."
  — Jared & Logan (75:09)

e) NYC Women Too Rigid/Hard to Schedule (75:34 - 84:36)

• Summary:

  • Male listener complains that women he’s meeting have zero bandwidth for dating, scheduling him in between social events and self-care routines; he feels more like a calendar entry than a person.

• Advice:

  • Jared: This “aunt energy” is often a defense mechanism—people over-structure their lives to prevent disappointment. If you’re looking for spontaneous, organic connection, this isn’t your type.
  • Logan: These women represent a spectrum—it’s possible he keeps picking the extreme end (type-A/ultra-organized). There’s plenty of middle-ground.
  • Both caution: If someone can never make space, they’re not prioritizing a relationship—or you.

  "If you want love… you have to make space for someone in your life. The person who’s right for you is worth becoming more flexible for."
  — Logan (80:00)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fear and Commitment:

  "I don't want to make a promise that I might break, instead of just normalizing it being like, yeah... reaching out just means, I'm interested in a first date."
  — Logan on fear of taking initiative (17:53)

• On Dating App Conspiracies:

  "No one's ever like… how much time are you spending on here and how do we increase it? The best marketing we could ever do is someone finding their partner."
  — Logan (28:26)

• On ‘Effort Currency’

  "Effort is the new currency in dating… as women make more money, the bar is raised for men."
  — Logan (31:06)

• Texting = Pepper Jack Cheese:

  "Your friends are like, stop complaining. Just eat the turkey and bread… you're like, well, a little pepper jack cheese would be nice. That's what the texting is."
  — Jared (66:25)

• On Timing and Labels:

  "If it’s the right person, wrong time, then it’s the wrong person."
  — Logan (60:45) "Men are way more romantic than they're given credit for."
  — Jared (52:40)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Catching up, motherhood, and transitions: 00:42 – 07:33
• Timing and readiness in relationships: 07:33 – 11:23
• Personal growth & effort in dating: 12:13 – 20:26
• Hinge data & planning/effort: 25:49 – 31:34
• Email 1: Boyfriend never plans dates: 30:23 – 39:39
• Ick or Picky: The voice note guy: 41:43 – 45:41
• Email 2: Right person, wrong time: 50:20 – 61:31
• Red Flag/Deal Breaker: Bad texter: 65:03 – 75:09
• Email 3: NYC over-schedulers: 75:34 – 84:36

---

Tone & Takeaway

Rich with banter, personal reflection, research-backed insights and real listener stories, this episode unpacks how modern dating anxiety is shaped by timelines, effort, gendered expectations, and the psychological traps we set for ourselves when trying to “make it work.” Jared and Logan keep a light, honest, sometimes self-deprecating but always practical tone—it’s accessible, validating, and funny, even when dissecting hard truths.

Bottom line: Timing matters, but mutual readiness, consistent effort, and being honest about your own needs (not just analyzing the other person's "deficits") are what truly drive modern connection.

---

For full, original insights and a dose of real-time laughs, check out the full episode on Betches Media’s U Up? wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Logan Yuri]

So good, so good, so good.

[Jared Freed]

Spring styles are at Nordstrom Rack stores now and they're up to 60% off. Stock up and save on Rag and Bone, Madewell, Vince, All Saints and more of your favorites.

[Logan Yuri]

How did I not know Rack has Adidas? Why do we rack for the hottest?

[Jared Freed]

Still just so many good brands. Join the Nordy Club to unlock exclusive discounts. Shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favorite Rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack foreign. Welcome to the what Podcast. I'm Jared Freed and I am joined by today's special co host, Logan Yuri. Thank you for coming on the show.

[Logan Yuri]

Yay. I love being here with you, Logan.

[Jared Freed]

It is always a pleasure to have you on. You've been on our show. You're. You're like an OKP original key player you were on. You are one of our most listened to episode, Jared Gets a Dating Coach. That was like. That was on the benefits. So it's a benefits episode. If you want, you can go to the benefits sign up. The link is in the bio. You can get updates with Jordana, our regular co host who's definitely coming back. You know, we. The post, we tape these ahead of time, but the post with Jordana's babies, Charlie and Lucy are here. We're so excited. It is the UOP family has been completed. We want to wish Jordana and Mike a congratulations. We already done it a thousand times. By the time this comes out, the babies are going to be, you know, 18 years old and going to college. So if you want to hear updates from Jordana, go sign up for benefits. But you can also search through the benefits episode and see the episode that was like one of our biggest benefits episodes, Jared Gets a Dating Coach. Do you remember taping that?

[Logan Yuri]

Yes, of course. And I don't like to read Reddit comments, but I did find that I think in the U up Reddit subreddit, there's like 70 comments about that episode. So people were really 70.

[Jared Freed]

I don't go to Reddit. I don't deal with those monsters. Yeah, I think that's a lesser form of society, but I'm happy they enjoy the show.

[Logan Yuri]

I know you have enough Jared Freed snark in your own head.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, I don't. Right. Thank you. I don't need that. I don't need the, the, you know, the more things about me that I didn't even think of, you know, just

[Logan Yuri]

call your mom if you want someone to tell you what's wrong.

[Jared Freed]

With you. My mom, she's out of her mind. You. My mom is like, I think she's like, she might be on the Reddits.

[Logan Yuri]

Well, that's what was so funny about our episode. I mean, among many things was that I had a pre call with your mom and with Jordana.

[Jared Freed]

Oh, yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

And then I came in and I was like, this is what everyone in your life think wrong with you. Wait, I might have talked to someone that you dated.

[Jared Freed]

Oh, you did?

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. Like it. I really did like investigative reporting and then brought you my insights based on that.

[Jared Freed]

So what did from that episode? Your takeaway was that I needed to, like, give myself more to dating. Right. What was the takeaway?

[Logan Yuri]

There was a few things. One was that because you've been doing this for eight years and you have all these stories in your head of how guys have really messed up girls, you almost pull away before things get serious because you're like, I don't want to disappoint them. I don't want to hurt them. And it's like you can almost imagine it getting bad. So then you pull away before it gets serious.

[Jared Freed]

Well, you know, not. That makes me sound more heroic than, than I am. Like, I, I, I don't ever want to paint myself as a hero in this. I'm just a, you know, I would say I try to pay, I try to pay myself as a normal guy so it normalizes. Like, this is who you're dealing with. Like, I am. And, and so because a lot of those emails that we get in, I've done what these guys are doing, so, like, I am.

[Logan Yuri]

Would you call yourself a walking red flag?

[Jared Freed]

I, I guess if you want to write, you can read that book coming out in June, pre order the book. Logan, you have, you have a book out. You have a TV show on Netflix. Let's make sure we pimp all this stuff at Logan Yuri. She has a book out.

[Logan Yuri]

My book is called how to Not Die Alone.

[Jared Freed]

How to Not Die Alone. We keep things light here.

[Logan Yuri]

Ye.

[Jared Freed]

And you, you had a, you had a show. You have a show on Netflix that was, you were guiding, you know, El, the elders on their dating journey.

[Logan Yuri]

Hot. 55 plus.

[Jared Freed]

I love it. Well, yeah, no, nobody hates being called the elders more than 55.

[Logan Yuri]

No, now you're supposed to say older adult.

[Jared Freed]

Older adult.

[Logan Yuri]

Like, we don't say senior citizen anymore.

[Jared Freed]

One time I was, you know, I'm from Boca. I'm. I know. Well, this is. You're from Boca, and I live in Delray now, so I'm learning the. The insecurities of a certain age group and I age. Not a thing for me. I guess it. At some point it might be. Is angel things for you. Do you get insecure about age?

[Logan Yuri]

No.

[Jared Freed]

No. That's not what hits you.

[Logan Yuri]

I think there's. I think I will, but I'm not quite there yet.

[Jared Freed]

Okay.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

You have a kid now?

[Logan Yuri]

I do.

[Jared Freed]

Married? Child?

[Logan Yuri]

Married. Yeah. I have a two year old. She's really cute.

[Jared Freed]

Are you happy? Mom as a. Yeah. What's the worst part about being a mom?

[Logan Yuri]

Worst part. Okay. Worst part about being a mom is that there's just so many more logistics. Like you just have to like for this trip, it's like I'm coming in, I'm doing this and then I'm taking a 7am flight tomorrow. And if not I'd be like, I'm gonna stay and like go to your show tomorrow night. So I think logistics, I think best part is just being silly. Like it's a chance to be super silly with someone and kind of go back to that. Oh, sorry.

[Jared Freed]

No. Okay. No, that is nice. That's nice to hear. Like, that's. That's kind of like, you know, I. Not to make it about me, but in my dating life. But you've reminded me of like, you know, the thing that I think about with like dating a lot with. Did you feel like you were ready for the mom stuff? Did you feel like this was a preparation? Because I. Here's how I feel as a single guy who wants to be in a relationship or says that enough that I have to believe it. My next phase of life is so different than my current phase of life. And I think for a lot of women that I date, it feels like yes, their next phase of life is different in a relationship, but it's not as different as mine if I'm to compare. Like, it feels like a lot of the women are building the nest. Like they're the. The mama bird and they're slowly building the nest. And I am this eagle. Yeah. I'm calling myself an eagle or that is gonna swoop in and land in this nest and it's going to be set up and now I gotta be in this nest that is very different than the cave that I was kind of wandering around in. Does that.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts on this. So one is, I think the best quote that I've heard about becoming a parent is if you're sick of going to the party, it's time to throw the party. And what I interpret that to mean is, like, if you've kind of been doing one thing for a while and it doesn't feel that fulfilling anymore, it might be time to do something else or, like, be the host of it. And so what I mean about that for parenting is, like, I had kind of, like, been married in my 30s for a while, like, having a lot of friends, like, doing fun things. But I don't know, I just, like, had gotten used to it, and I was sort of ready for something else. And I would say being a mom is a completely new something else, and I really enjoy it. It, like, injects a lot of novelty into your life, especially because kids change so fast, like, every month. It's like you have a new kid. But then in terms of what you said about, like, the woman building the nest and the eagle coming from the cave, I think that's true. Like, what I experience, a lot of people experience is, like, a woman starts, like, getting used to it once she's pregnant. Like, I'm gonna be a mom, blah, blah, blah. And the guy, I feel like, doesn't become a dad until, like, the baby comes out. So I think the woman just does, for many reasons, like, adapt to that new identity sooner.

[Jared Freed]

Well, even with, like. If I even bring it back to, like, single woman right now. Yeah, her apartment. Right. A man could live there. Yeah, my apartment. I don't think a woman could just plop right in. Like, I look at these, you know, like, when I sleep at a woman's house, like, the pictures are up of her and the friends. You know, there's, like. You know, there's a bed made that is kind of emulating some sort of restoration hardware thing that they've seen. And that is just not what I'm living in. And. And this is kind of like metaphor for life. Like. And. And I like the pregnancy thing because, like, you're living with the baby as you're feeding it. You're literally feeding it inside of you. So, like, you know, you're preparing mentally, physically with this human, and the guy is just, like, sitting there.

[Logan Yuri]

He doesn't feel any different.

[Jared Freed]

No difference. So, like. And I kind of have that with, like, dating and men. And, like, you know, you have a lot of the. And again, the emails we get. Woman ready, man. Timings off. Not ready yet. A lot of them.

[Logan Yuri]

I think that's just always been the case.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

Forever. I think it's like, I was ready to get engaged probably two years before my husband proposed, and I feel like I had been ready to have a kid for a while. Like, I think it's just natural that women are ready a little bit earlier. And some of it, I think, is just biological clock and fertility and things like that. I think some of it is maturity. But I guess my point is, like, when the baby comes out, like, you adapt to it and you make it work. So even if you don't feel ready, that doesn't mean that when the time comes, you won't rise to the occasion.

[Jared Freed]

Right. You know, I. I think about this a lot because I'm like, you know, I'm not, like, looking for a baby, but I'm like, I know I'll be good in that next form of life, but I have to kind of trust it. Like, I kind of have to trust that, like, you know, my comedy will reflect.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

You know, be as good as it was doing, talking about my life in another form, or be as relatable.

[Logan Yuri]

And I think it'll be even better because, like, you've been doing the, like, single in 35, single in 36, single and 37 shtick for a long time. Like, Jared, like, I feel like, obviously John Mulaney is, like, the top of the industry right now, and I feel like his content since he's become a parent has been so good, especially for me as a parent, because I'm just like, yes. Like, you're taking the things that I experience every day, and then you're extracting, like, the funniest, most outrageous parts of it.

[Jared Freed]

And.

[Logan Yuri]

And I. I think his comedy right now is incredible. And it's like he aged with his comedy. He didn't age out of it.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, you can. And that happens to a lot of comics. I mean, you see that. That. Especially if they're not writing. That's one. But you see a lot of comics that, like, they're so. And I don't want to be this. But it's hard. It really. I think it's like a good. Again, the word metaphor. Because with standup, like, I'm like, yeah, I'm kind of done talking about dating. I hear a lot of bits being done that are things that I've done 10 years ago.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Like, I'm hearing other people do them, and I'm like, yeah, I kind of, like, have moved on from that. And when I do talk about dating, I do tend to get, like, somewhat more serious. Like, I'm like. Like, I've been thinking a lot about, like, the. Because I get asked, do you want to be in a relationship? But I'm like, that is an interesting thing to ask someone.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And I don't think women get asked that as much as a guy gets that. Like, I get asked, like, it's my. A big choice for me.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. And I think by women who are going out with you.

[Jared Freed]

By everyone.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Do you even want to? And it's like, do I look like someone who wants to just be alone forever?

[Logan Yuri]

I know.

[Jared Freed]

Like, that's like a weird.

[Logan Yuri]

I mean, I'm just sitting across from you and I, like, want to shake you and be like, obviously you're ready for a relationship. Like, I know, just like, get on the marriage train. Like, what are you waiting for? Like, a fear that, like, your comedy will change. It's like, yes, it will change for the better.

[Jared Freed]

Like, well, it's a life change, of

[Logan Yuri]

course, but, like, you'll just adapt to it. And is your life right now so great that you have to.

[Jared Freed]

Life is pretty good. I mean, I'm unbothered.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay.

[Jared Freed]

You know, like, I. There's no stress. There's no like.

[Logan Yuri]

But no, there is stress. There is.

[Jared Freed]

There is always stress. But I'm saying, like, it is interesting that, like, stay home, nothing will happen. But then nothing happens. You know, like, it's like a two way street. And I'm speaking vaguely. I don't mean to speak so vaguely, but like, I think a lot about the episode that we did in the coaching and like, yeah, this fear of, like, messing up is I think a lot, like, and I hear back from those people. I hear back from the people, like when I do, like a dating pep talk and I'm joking, I'll see people like, yep. Haven't had to deal with that in 10 years and thank God I don't anymore.

[Logan Yuri]

You mean from married people?

[Jared Freed]

From. No, from single people that are like. But I'm like you. You know, I used to do these pep talks where I'd be like, you know, you're single. And that's great because you could be with someone who does this, this and that. And it's like, yeah, you could, but then you'd have nothing to talk about. If you're not like, you. You have what's interesting, you know, like, I don't know, it's. It's. I. I do feel ready. I feel like the big change I have made since we've talked. I don't drink on dates.

[Logan Yuri]

Oh.

[Jared Freed]

So that's been one, which has been interesting to see how relieved the women seem to be.

[Logan Yuri]

Wait, was that a conscious choice?

[Jared Freed]

It was a pretty conscious choice to stop Drinking on dates.

[Logan Yuri]

Because you were like, I want to meet you. Not like the two cocktails I'm drinking.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah. And I tend to like, you didn't. I was like, I think the cocktails were softening, you know, the. The blow of a conversation. Like, I can make any cocktail conversation work.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

I was like, let me see what it is without. And that has been good because I just couldn't believe how relieved the women were. Like, I couldn't believe that they were like, oh, thank God. Like, yeah, no, I don't.

[Logan Yuri]

Because wouldn't be like, yeah, of course we're getting drinks. We should both get a drink.

[Jared Freed]

Well, we should both get a drink and. But I say to them before, like, I'm not going to be drink. I just want to let you know. Or like, and, and, and like, I'll see like a. Oh, good. I was like, kind of like, I didn't really want to. Like, I was looking to wake up early tomorrow and like, oh, interesting. Which is interesting. I thought that was interesting. I've also moving to Florida. Dating there is way more intentional. You have to get in a car, you have to go somewhere. You have to this. It felt like dating New York was more. I could do it in an hour on the way to something else. And that's more. That's as much me a problem as it is the city. Like, I didn't have to do it that way, but I was on the way to shows or something. There was no other option but to go on the date. And yeah, I guess. And that's kind of the way I think that's a big difference for me.

[Logan Yuri]

Are you still drinking in general? Just not on dates.

[Jared Freed]

I have a drink here and there. Okay. But it's not a part of my life in the way it once was.

[Logan Yuri]

Oh, wow, that does feel bit. Because I feel like one time we were hanging out and you were like, you know, you get so you have so much adrenaline after your shows that sometimes you kind of have to come down with the drink.

[Jared Freed]

You have to like, sit somewhere and like, let the mind clear a little bit. And you know, I've been having like, you know, if I don't want to drink, I'll have like a non al after. And it kind of does the same thing for me.

[Logan Yuri]

I'm happy for you. It sounds like you're happy for you. And it's been a good change.

[Jared Freed]

It's been a good change. And also my parents being around, like, I'm kind of reminded of like, what's important, you know? Like, of, like, where I'm looking to go. They also have friends around them where I'm, like, seeing, like, people who aren't in relationships at an older age and who are. And ones that work and ones that don't. And, like, I'm getting this, like, view that has been informative where you're like,

[Logan Yuri]

oh, that's the path I don't want to take.

[Jared Freed]

Right. I don't want to be alone forever.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Even though. And I can see that there are people that stayed single.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

That you go, oh, that's like. That's a. That's an. I can see it on them. And then I realize it in myself that staying single is just opting out.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. I've definitely used that as a coaching technique where you have someone who keeps leaving relationships earlier, you know, all these reasons why they're not staying in relationships or dating at all. And then I have them close their eyes and think about, okay, like, it's 20 years from now, you met someone, you have a family. Like, walk me through that. And the other one is, like, you just opted out of dating. And it's really to get them to imagine what their life is like. And not that you can't have an amazing life without being married or having kids, but that you have to sort of proactively do something else to find meaning. And a lot of times it helps these people understand. Like, oh, I do want that. I'm just afraid of the steps it takes to get there.

[Jared Freed]

Right. Yeah, that. That speaks to me. I mean, like, it is, you know, I. You know. And the phone. We've joked that my phone is like, my girlfriend. And I try to think a lot about, like, would I be doing this if a phone didn't exist? And I don't think I would be. Like, a lot of times I'm doing these, like, food. Like, when I go on the road, I'll do food reviews. Like, I go to a restaurant and I'll, like, talk to the phone about the review of the restaurant. But I've never been negative about a restaurant or generally not. It's usually just me on a date with my phone. Like, I'm talking to the phone the way I would talk to my girlfriend.

[Logan Yuri]

Well, there's you talking to the phone, but then there's also all the validation and affirmation that you're getting from strangers.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

So I think there's, like, Jared without his phone. Is he now married? I also think there's Jared without being, like, an online personality. And I think it has of course, changed you a lot. Cause it's like you have all these stories in your head of nightmare things guys have done that impacts how you show up. But then there's also a lot of validation from the world.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

And then one other thing we talked about in our coaching session was that you had gone on a bunch of dates with, like, people that DM you. And then one of my challenges for you was like, can you actually proactively reach out to someone else? Because maybe you'll feel more into them if you're initiating versus just being like, here's what came to me.

[Jared Freed]

That's been very hard for me to do because I do get ahead on that. Where I do feel like me reaching out is me making a promise and making, like, that that would get used against me.

[Logan Yuri]

See that? I feel like there's, like, a lot of meaty stuff there, which is you're so afraid of making a promise that you might break instead of just normalizing it, being like, yeah, people reach out to people they're interested in all the time. And that just means I'm interested in a first date.

[Jared Freed]

Here's what I think of all the time. And it's maybe because I don't have, you know, people think as I go on stage or I do this show that I must have a lot of confidence. I have my own confidence issues like anyone else. I think there's, like, a certain type of confidence that there's a thing in my head that happens. And we're going to get to the emails. You can send in your emails. You don't want to turn this into a benefits episode, but I do. Yeah. Logan wants to turn this into. So we're going to get. We have advice emails that we're going to get to. Icky or picky. You can watch on YouTube. You can see me and Logan. Hash it out there, comment, subscribe, all those good things. But before we get to the email, I. I will say that the one thing I think of when I think of, like, reaching out to someone is the woman who's written in here like, I didn't even like him. And look where I am now. Miserable because a guy I didn't even know about or like is now telling me that they don't have time for a relationship with me after they reached out to me. And I think of that, and I get, like, a shiver down my spine because I'm like, you know, I. I do think I'm, like, Of that conversation afterwards where I'm not even there again. I'M inventing this.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And I. I'll admit it, I'm inventing it. Someone's gonna write in the comments that something horrific about this. But I'm like, I. I'm. I'm being vulnerable right now to say when I think of that, I just go, ugh. I don't. I'll just go masturbate. Like, I. I'm like, I'll just go masturbate to the idea of me, you know, with that person. And then I'll go away from it. Because that's a lot easier than the idea of, like, going on the date and being three months in and going, ah, I'm not really there yet. And then going, hey, I'm sorry I roped you into this with a big, nice text that wanted to take you out and made you feel good at the time. But I'm sorry I got to end it because timing's not right. Lie, lie, lie. Excuse, excuse. Excuse for what? The real answer is, I don't think I'll get married to you ever. And I've already. I've worn you as the girlfriend, and I'm going to take you off and toss you away. Which is very mean and hurtful to say in those terms. I would never say it that way, but that is how it could be taken. And I feel really badly even before that even happened. And if someone. I would say that I am not that far away from a lot of men who probably feel this way.

[Logan Yuri]

I think you have a very vivid imagination.

[Jared Freed]

Yes.

[Logan Yuri]

And so I think that, again, this

[Jared Freed]

takes a lot of confidence and lack of confidence to think this way. I think. But I'll stop interrupt.

[Logan Yuri]

To me, it's an imagination thing where you're like, if I send the text, then she thinks I'm promising that we're going to get married. And if it doesn't work out, she'll be so mad and she'll make a TikTok about it.

[Jared Freed]

And I'm like, I'm not even in the TikTok world. I won't even go that far. I'll just say that now I'm this memory.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

It's like, I don't like taking pictures with women when they've brought me to wedding because I don't want to be in that picture forever where they're like, look at. And I like, I don't want to be shown. You know, the wedding pictures come out 10 years later. Let's take out the book. And then it's like, and remember this loser.

[Logan Yuri]

I. Okay, I've talked to a lot of single guys about dating. I do think you're on the pretty extreme end of this, where because you've done this podcast for eight years, you just have such vivid stories in your mind of what. How women feel when guys let them down. Like, you have an insane amount of empathy for them, but it also gives you a lot of fear. What if I am that guy and I feel like it's. It's too far.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

Like, if you go to a wedding and they want to take a picture with you, great. Maybe they'll have a happy memory of it even if you didn't work out. And I think with the dm, it's like, the DM doesn't mean, like, I know I want to be with you forever. If you only see me, the DM means like, I think you're hot and I want to get to know you more. If in the process of getting to know them, like, it doesn't work out, I think it's fine.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, I know that rationally.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jared Freed]

But that's what I'm getting ahead of. And I. Okay, we got into a. We get into conversations a lot here with guests about, you know, why don't men just go up to women in bars? And I'm like, there's has to be a tinge of what I'm feeling for those men.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah, for sure.

[Jared Freed]

That idea that if I go up to. Why run and run up to that woman if I'm just gonna, like, have to go on date after date after date and make these promises that I don't know if I can keep because maybe I won't be that excited.

[Logan Yuri]

That's not what I ever hear. What I hear is like, I don't want to be perceived as creepy. I know from my female friends and online discourse that sometimes women don't like to be approached. And I don't know if she's single. Like, I could just look on an app to see who's single. And then I think it's also just fear of rejection. I really have never heard anyone other than you think about, I'm over promising and I might under deliver. Like, that does feel specific to Jared.

[Jared Freed]

Okay.

[Logan Yuri]

But I would just say in general, like, I know we want to get to the emails. Like, you can either run towards love or away from fear. And I feel like you're really in the fear mindset where it's like, this could go wrong and this could go wrong, and this could go wrong, and I could lose the stuff that I talk about in comedy and people see me as the single guy and like my life get more, might get more complicated and instead I would have you focus on what you could gain, which is like it feel really good to go to bed at night and like talk to the same person about my day and like hear about their day. Like it'd be, it'd feel really good to kind of move to the next stage of life. Like if you want to have kids, like it'd feel good to grow a family. And so I think of course it's more salient to you to think about what you would lose, but I would encourage you to think about what you could gain.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's 2026 and if you're still paying rent without Bilt, it's time for a change. BILT is the loyalty program for renters that rewards you for your biggest monthly expense rent. Let me explain. With Bilt, every rent payment earns you points that can be used towards flights, hotels, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases and so much more. And here's something I'm really excited about. Now BILT members can earn points on mortgage payments for the first time, get rewarded wherever you live, and unlock exclusive benefits with more than 45,000 restaurants, fitness studios, pharmacies and other neighborhood partners. Personally, I'd redeem my points towards Amazon purchases or get gift cards from over 120 brands. It's simple. Paying rent is better with Bilt. And now owning a home can be better with bill to earn rewards and get something back wherever you live, join the loyalty program for renters at joinbuilt.com UUP that's J O I N B I L T.com/UUP. Make sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. March is all about celebrating women, especially International Women's Day. First of all, women are incredible. We're the planners, the emotional support system, the ones keeping track of everything. But when we're showing up for everyone else, our own emotional well being can easily fall to the bottom of the list. If you're feeling the pressure, therapy can be such a helpful way to create balance, set boundaries and make space for yourself. You know, everyone is really still figuring it out, including me. And I think therapy is the best way to help figure yourself out your world, out what you want out, and just work through any issues that you really are having a tough time figuring out on your own. A licensed therapist can really help you get to the bottom of whatever has been bothering you. With over 30,000 fully licensed therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms. They do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences. And if you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recs. Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] UUP that's better. H E L P.com UUP let's do the emails.

[Jared Freed]

We're here with Logan Urie at Logan Uri. Go follow, go. Get involved. And you're working with Hinge? Yes, with Hinge. We want people check out Hinge. You have all the stats? Yeah. You have the numbers to back these things for sure.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. I am the lead relationship scientist at Hinge and I'm coming at you with all the Hinge data.

[Jared Freed]

Now. What is it that men want? Unhinge. What is it that women want? Unhinged. Do we want to get into that? Do we want to do the. Let's do the email first.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, great. I'm going to bring Hinge stats in wherever I can.

[Jared Freed]

So we're going to like reference Hinge stats. They're not sponsoring. This isn't like a paid advertisement. Logan just happens to work with them. And I think knowledge is power and knowing like, what's real, what's fake. Because here's the one thing that people. That really drives me crazy when I hear people say that I'm. They're. They're holding back the good ones from me. You hear a lot of like, that I'm not seeing the good ones.

[Logan Yuri]

And we're talking about on and up on an app.

[Jared Freed]

Unless I'm paying. Unless, you know, they turn it into this, like, yeah, yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

Conspiracy theory.

[Jared Freed]

Right? Does that any of that apply? Are people. Is Hinge holding back the good matches?

[Logan Yuri]

No, I mean, before I worked at Hinge, I interviewed, like, it just.

[Jared Freed]

I'm sorry, it just sounds like someone, like, it's like a lie people tell themselves. It's like. Or they're not. The good ones aren't into you, you know. You know, like. Or you just get a lot of likes. And that's what happens on a dating app. And you have to sift through all this group of people that you would never date because you're just in a more public forum than you are a bar. There's more people that could approach you on Hinge than A bar, you know?

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. I mean, I think one that I hear a lot is like, of course Hinge doesn't want you to find someone, then they would lose you as a customer or lose you as a user. And that's what I thought before I joined Hinge and when I interviewed and

[Jared Freed]

then they started paying me me and my thoughts changed.

[Logan Yuri]

Well, it's sort of related to that, but it's like when I was writing my book before I worked at Hinge, I interviewed the now former CEO Justin McLeod, and I was like, this doesn't make any sense. Like, every time someone gets into a relationship, there's churn and you have to find a new user and all this stuff. And he was like, no, everyone, time someone deletes the app because they're in a relationship or they get married, like, that's the best marketing we could ever do.

[Jared Freed]

I totally agree with that. Yeah. That is someone who tells you to download a dating app, what do you are? The person who finds their partner is the person who then forever.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Because when I asked someone, how'd you meet men on Hinge?

[Logan Yuri]

That's how I feel. And like, I've been to so many weddings where they're like, let's read back the first hinge message from 2019.

[Jared Freed]

And no one thinks of that as marketing because it's so ingrained in our culture. But that's great marketing.

[Logan Yuri]

Of course. But it's. Every single person in the audience is like, okay, I gotta get on Hinge. Or like, I'm give Hinge another try. So, like, I genuinely believe it. And having been there now for a long time, I'm like, every single person at Hinge is sitting there being like, how do we make better matches? How can we help you feel more comfortable? What else can we learn about you to, like, make better, compatible matches? No one's ever like, how much time are you spending on here? And how do we increase it? So anyway, of course.

[Jared Freed]

Well, you're, you're, you're in that world. You, you live in. You know that area of the country that we're talking about 10x and yeah,

[Logan Yuri]

I live in the Bay Area.

[Jared Freed]

In the Bay Area. So, you know, the whole Silicon Valley, the whole private equity side of things is like, everyone's kind of like, bought into the lore of private equity where they're like, well, they wouldn't invest here if it wasn't going to be a 30x company. And it's like, well, the people who work there, you know, the best marketing is two people fall in love meet on Hinge. They talk about it until the day they die.

[Logan Yuri]

For sure. Yeah. And that's why when I met Justin, I was talking about, like, Churn, because, like, I come from a tech background and I come from the idea of, like, you know, acquiring users and cost per acquisition. And it's like, look, at the end of the day, if your friend met her husband on Hinge, that makes you want to use Hinge more.

[Jared Freed]

Right? Right. So let's do the email. You JJ and L. Big fan. I think I need your help. I can't tell if this is something I'm overthinking or if there's a real issue in my relationship. Me, 28, boyfriend, 28. Sweet, communicative move to my city for me, which I really appreciate. We live together now and things are going well, but he never plans dates or special things for us. I always have to take the lead, even for simple ideas like dinner or a walk. When I ask him to plan something, he says it stresses him out and he only plans things easily for his friends because they have lower standards. Quote, we have a trip coming up before he leaves for a few weeks, and even with a full day free, he couldn't come up with anything special. I ended up suggesting a walk to a bookstore, which was fun, but I wish he would have put in an effort to without me leading. He insists on paying for dates and I truly appreciate that, but thoughtful, inexpensive ideas like a picnic or museum visit seem beyond him. I love him, but this makes me question if he's right for me. His lack of planning is a turn off or am I being too picky? Just take me on a walk, babe. What do you think? Logan here.

[Logan Yuri]

Oh, my gosh, I have so many thoughts on this.

[Jared Freed]

Go for it.

[Logan Yuri]

Where do I start? I mean, planning.

[Jared Freed]

Planning. Planning. That's the easiest way to turn on a woman.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Is that kind of the hinge data?

[Logan Yuri]

It is. And you and I have talked about this, like, off mic, where the hinged data shows that 72% of women are like, I'd rather have a guy that puts in more effort than one who makes more money. And that, like, effort is just so important right now. It's like, logistics is the new love language. Effort is the new currency in dating. And that, like, as women make more money as they are perceived as, like, more equal in the financial world, the bar is raised for men. It's like, not enough to just be a provider anymore. You have to have emotional intelligence and you have to put in effort and plan and I think what some would

[Jared Freed]

say that's lowered the bar.

[Logan Yuri]

Yes. In some ways. No, no, no. I know what you're saying I have

[Jared Freed]

to do, cuz, like. Yeah, you know, I. I guess I'm a creative. As as many know, I'm an author, a comedian, improviser, actor, podcaster. To me, planning a date, like, that's stupid. Like, I could plan the dumbest date, and I think that would turn on a woman in a way that they'd be like, this was awesome. And it would cost me very little money.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

It would really take 10 minutes of brainstorming, and, like, I could right now walk in Central Park. We're gonna get a hot dog here. We're gonna go to this landmark here. We're gonna. There's a Dave Chappelle sketch from Chappelle's show where he talks about how much money he would put into a date. I think we can look this up. It's a Chappelle show sketch where it's like he has. He has, like, $3.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And the date is him, like, trying to figure out. It's really funny how to get this $3 to last the date to get them laid. I think if I'm remembering it correctly, am I misremembering? Am I thinking of a different sketch? But I just have this memory of this date, and I'm like, I could see a woman walking away from that being like, we went on a great walk. We got to talk. We got a hot dog, which is, like, so New York City. And, like. And then if you really explain that back, you know, again, like, at the brunch table, someone go, well, that's. That's all it took to make you turned on. Is that it? Is that the sketch? What's it called? Oh, it's Half Baked. You're right. Oh, it's from the movie Half Baked.

[Logan Yuri]

And then don't they have the numbers pop up about how much he has?

[Jared Freed]

$8.

[Logan Yuri]

And he's so funny. Oh, my gosh.

[Jared Freed]

With the woman. He gets the hot dog, and. And then she keeps ordering, and he's down to $6, and. And he's, like, sweating this $8.

[Logan Yuri]

Wait, this is a side. But do you remember when you had the Golden Bachelor on?

[Jared Freed]

Yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

And you were like, what's your favorite restaurant? And he was like, sparrow Pizza.

[Jared Freed]

When. Yeah, Gary. Gary. Really? The Golden Bachelor. When he was also wearing a suit, where the tag was on in the suit. And I really wish I had pointed that out during the episode. I don't know if you can see it in the YouTube.

[Logan Yuri]

You're like, you're a restaurateur. What's your favorite restaurant? New York. He said sparrow.

[Jared Freed]

He said sparrow or so. Yeah, it was. It was crazy. Well, I was like, where you going tonight?

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And he was like, I don't know. Maybe, like, he had a high voice. And I love Gary. Like, he's gotten kind of tied up in this, like, in the aftermath of, like, Golden Bachelor, you know, stuff. But he was always very nice. But, yeah, I was like, what? Yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

So, okay, going back to the email, I think there's a few things. So, one, like, what's the need behind the need? So her need that she's telling him is, I want you to plan it. But maybe the need behind the need is, like, I want what's important to me to be important to you. Or, like, I've asked you for this, but you say you're not willing to do it.

[Jared Freed]

Well, what about the feedback? They have lower standards.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

So I really don't. I mean, that, to me, is a problem.

[Logan Yuri]

I feel I. I think what I'm. What she's getting at there is, like, I want him to plan a trip where he books the Airbnbs, but he's afraid that if he books them, they won't be good enough for me, whereas if he books them for his friends, they don't care. Which, like, I have experienced in my life. Like, I feel like when I was first starting to date my husband, I was like, okay, we're going to Portland and Seattle. I'll plan half, you'll plan the other half. And then we got to Seattle, and I was like, I think this is a literal dorm room. Like, why are we here? Like. Like, it was upsetting to me, and.

[Jared Freed]

Because it's. I guess. Would you say that when you saw what he planned for his half, it's like, did you even think of me?

[Logan Yuri]

It wasn't that. I was just like, oh, you're very bad at travel planning. And it had stressed him out a lot. And that's why, like, there's so much I can about this. But I would say, like, I'm an extreme planner, and it's sort of part of being a control freak. It's like, I want to control as much as I can. Planning makes me feel like I'm in control. Like, there's a lot behind that. And then for my husband, it's like he, like, gets so nervous planning flights. Like, it just doesn't work out for him. And so I would say, like, Many years into our relationship, I'm just like, yeah, I'll do the travel planning. Like, because you hate it and I like it and you're bad at. And I'm good at it. But. But it's not like I feel like he doesn't do 50% in our relationship. It's just that he doesn't do 50% of travel planning.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

And so what I would say to her is, I would say if everything else in your relationship is great, he's just not a good planner, then maybe you just accept that and give him some tips and move on. But if this is a deeper feeling where you're like, this is a skill that he could develop and he refuses to do it, or he never prioritizes what I want to prioritize, then I would say it's a deal breaker. The other thing, going back to what you said about like there's a million good dates you can think of, it's like literally use chatgpt. Like type into chatgpt. My girlfriend loves reading, she loves these comedians, she loves these musicians and her favorite cuisine is this like plan me like a three part date in New York City for next Saturday. It will literally do that for you. And I don't think that's cheating. I think that's like being strategic. And so part of me is like, planning is a skill and he could definitely learn it.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, he trying to learn it. I think when you say to him he stresses it, it stresses him out. He only plans things easily for his friends because they, quote, have lower standards. Yeah, that's like annoying, really annoying feedback

[Logan Yuri]

because now you're making stresses out all the time. Like life isn't about just doing the things that are easy. It's like, do you want to make a presentation for work? It stresses me out. Well, guess what, you're still going to do it. It's like he could work through that stress. Especially with tools like Google.

[Jared Freed]

Well, they have lower standards. Is really like a way of pushing you away because it's making it your problem.

[Logan Yuri]

That's really smart.

[Jared Freed]

That's the problem. And I think when you say like make a presentation for work, he has to do that. Yeah, I think when you say like I'd like for you to plan, it doesn't sound like from my end, I wouldn't be like, well, yeah, I guess you'd like to, but like we're in a relationship, who cares? I think if she said it to him like I feel unloved when you have no plan at all ever. Like now it becomes like, you got to make me feel loved. Like, we have a real issue. So, like, if I heard that, I would probably make a plan at that point.

[Logan Yuri]

Like, I. I think that's exactly right. It's like, if she says to him, it's not about the plan, it's about how it makes me feel. This is really important to me. If he changes, great. If he doesn't change, I think that's a problem.

[Jared Freed]

Right. And. And then you could say, here's a way to make. Here's the solve. Here's the. The key to the. The castle. Go to chat GBT and plan one thing a week. That's all I'm asking for.

[Logan Yuri]

Sure.

[Jared Freed]

One thing a week. And. And now you've made it. And I think, like, a lot of men are fixers and, you know, want the. The map and want to, you know, take, you know, lead you through the airport. We'll get to the gate and be there on time. So let's play to that. If he can't do that, that's kind of a final test to, like, his effort level to make you feel loved. Now, it's not an effort level to plan because planning sounds to me it wouldn't be important.

[Logan Yuri]

This one. Like, really, I have a lot of feelings about this one because I feel like I've gone through it my own relationship. So, like, I talked about, like, you know, planning the trip with my husband at the beginning, but it reminds me of when I was planning my wedding, and I also had, like, a Covid wedding, which means it got rescheduled. And, like, the. Our final wedding was 4.0. Like the fourth one.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

Anyway, I remember I was, like, in therapy at the time, and I said to my therapist, like, I'm doing 95 of the planning, and he's only doing 5%. And the 5% he's doing, he's not even doing well. And, like, I got so riled up about it, and I was like, does this mean that when we have kids, I'll have to do 95%?

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

And, like, what she has said, which was genuinely very helpful, was she was like, he doesn't care that much about the wedding. Like, the wedding is for you. It's not exciting to him. But if you have a kid and you decide to have a kid together, like, he. He will be, like, opting into that in a different way. And I would say that's been completely true. Like, I think for the wedding planning, I really did the majority of it, and I cared more, but, like, when we decided together to have a kid, I think we definitely are 50 50. And so I don't know if that's like me making an excuse for my husband or for men, but I think the point is that like, the relationship has to be 50 50, but it doesn't mean that every task has to be 50 50. So like, I like doing the laundry. It doesn't bother me. I do all of our laundry, but like, I don't do any of the cooking, any of the grocery ordering. Like, I have no idea what my child eats. My husband does all of that. And so I think as you're in a relationship longer, you realize you can actually like divide and conquer different activities. You don't have to try to make that person, like good at laundry or good at planning dates if that's something that you're really good at.

[Jared Freed]

Uupetches.com we're here with Logan Urie at Logan Urie. Go, follow, get involved. How to Not Die Alone is the book she is with Hinge. So go, you know, now this is the, this is. We're coming out here in March. It's spring. It's time. Download the app.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

At some point I looked in my drawer and I realized I owned a lot of underwear that I didn't actually want to wear. You know, like those backup pairs, the pairs that you're like, I'm out of everything else. I guess I'll put this on. But since I found skims, they're basically the only thing I wear. I am obsessed with skims underwear and bras. It's pretty much literally all I wear. I wear the bralettes around my house all the time. I'm constantly wearing their underwear.

[Jared Freed]

It.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's the only underwear that just feels like as comfortable as not wearing underwear, which for me is a pretty big thing. I really love their fits everybody T shirt bra. I wear it all around the house. I wear it out to do errands and their scoop rowlette because like, again, it's so, so comfy and it also looks great. It's really flattering, which is really hard to find. Shop my favorite bras and [e-mail] after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows.

[Logan Yuri]

Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right? And the best part, they accept Discover. Except Discover in a little place like this. I don't think so. Jennifer. Oh yeah. Huh. Discover is accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby. Get with the times. Right? So we shouldn't get the parachute pin. These are making a comeback, I think.

[Jared Freed]

Discover is accepted at 99 of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on the February 2025 Nielsen report. Let's play icky or picky. Okay, you're dating someone and you get the ick. Are you valid? Is that valid? Would you. You got the ick or are you being picky?

[Logan Yuri]

Wait, is being picky here good or bad?

[Jared Freed]

I, I, I guess we're giving feedback that this isn't like a valid ick.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, got it.

[Jared Freed]

JJ and L, longtime listener for some writer. This happened to me last year. It still makes me laugh and cringe. I matched with a guy on hinge and we had a really good banter, send flirty texts, and even had an inside joke about his dog before we even talked about going on a date. Playing the date was easy and all in all, normal and sweet. Then right before finalizing plans, he asked if I could send him a voice note. Anything, Just a voice note. That's weird.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah, I want to hear where this is going.

[Jared Freed]

I'm a little shy and felt weird about it. I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't really want to. I'd rather just meet in person. And in retrospect, maybe he thought it was weird that I wouldn't send a voice note. He sent me a voice note insisting it was no big deal, but kept pushing. I brushed it off. We finished planning the date and I headed to dinner. While I was in the Uber on the way, I get a voice note from him. This time in a super sing songy, deeply, ick inducing tone, saying, catherine, just one more thing. You gotta send me that voice note. I decided to not go on the date and unmatched him. So icky or picky. Is asking for a voice note before a first date a harmless preference or is repeatedly insisting on one a red flag? Thanks for all the laughs. What do you think?

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, first of all, that story is so bizarre and creepy. I, I think I have like, a pretty clear short answer, which is, I understand why some people want to hear your voice. Because a lot of people are impacted by voice or they want to make sure you're real.

[Jared Freed]

Right?

[Logan Yuri]

But there's so many other ways to do it. It's like, ask for a pre date phone call. Ask for a predate FaceTime. Like, I think that would be normal. But why? This is really gross. And a red flag is that she said no. She was like, my Boundary is. No. And he kept pushing. I think the fact that he didn't listen to her boundary and, like, kept trying to get something from her that she didn't want to give feels really gross. And I. I think she did the right thing by just being like, no, I don't like how this makes me feel.

[Jared Freed]

Totally. It's a lack of awareness. I think it's a total valid ick. Lack of awareness of the order of operations of it all. Because what you're saying is so right. Like, there is a way to hear a voice. If that is on your list of things. You need to go on a date with someone you meet online. You can go, I gotta hear a voice. Let's have a call. Hey, I know this might be a little weird. I think once you have a date planned, once that date is planned, I want no surprises.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay?

[Jared Freed]

I want. No vague. I want. No, you'll see what I get there. I want. No, none of that. I don't want any. You know, I might bring a friend. I may do this. Well, we'll show you when I get there. No, no, no. We are meeting. We are still strangers who have never met. Don't come at me with like, let me get a voice note out of you. No, we planned this date already. I've gotten past the point of. Of we don't know each other, and now we're gonna go meet.

[Logan Yuri]

Like, I totally agree. I think the order of operation things is really smart. Hey, like, I feel like we have a lot in common. Like, do you want to hop on the phone? I usually walk home from work around 6. Like, that's fine. Or she could say, like, no, but I could do this other time. Like, I think there's just a normal way to ask for it. But once you've planned the date, then being like, actually, there's this other hoop you need to jump through is really off.

[Jared Freed]

Right? And it's. It's not even even like, you're. As if I gotta, like, like, perform for you.

[Logan Yuri]

And like, the thing is, the data we've seen at Hinge is that people are really into voice. Like, when we added voice prompts, people loved it. They felt like there was a richness to it. You can see someone's sense of humor. I remember my favorite one was my friend had it as a benchmark for someone's sense of humor. So the Hinge prompt was how to pronounce my name. And his said Joe.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

Like, and then someone would be like, do you really think that I don't know how to pronounce your name. Joe. And he's like, nope, doesn't get my sense of humor. You're out. And like, I love that story. And we see at hinge that a third of Gen Z daters want to receive more voice notes. They a third feel like it really helps them feel connected to their date. Like, I'm pro voice note, but I'm not pro, like pushing a boundary when you've already set up a date. I just think that guy was off.

[Jared Freed]

It's off. It's an ick. It's and especially like to send someone a voice note that sounds like it could be sent from a murderer in a horror movie. Catherine.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, if you're.

[Jared Freed]

I still need that voice now.

[Logan Yuri]

It's really weird.

[Jared Freed]

Come out and play.

[Logan Yuri]

It's like the modern day scream. Like you pick up your phone.

[Jared Freed]

Catherine, I need a voice note or I won't be paying for the wine tonight. Give it to me in five minutes or you won't be seeing my face. Click. Like, yeah, I I don't like any of that. I hate a surprise. I I from someone I don't know. I don't want that. I don't want to play your game. This is not what I Especially from someone I've never met. I have no investment in you. I guess who this is. No. Even when I'm not guessing. Goodbye. I've had people guess who. Hey, I have to I write back if someone like has my number and they say, guess who. I write back. I have to block if you don't tell me who this is right away. No fudge fun. That's really gonna have fun with a number I don't have saved. We'll have fun after the name is in my phone. That's who I have fun with. I have plenty of people to have fun with.

[Logan Yuri]

So funny. Because I feel like obviously we all get all those text spam messages.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah.

[Logan Yuri]

And some of them, like, are so good. Like, I got one that was like, hey, do you want to hop on the phone later to talk? And I was like, wait, which one am I like anyway? That is funny. If somebody, if a spam message was like, guess who?

[Jared Freed]

I had someone. They were like, a friend of mine is getting into comedy. I would love for you to speak to them. I was like, of course, whatever you need. And, and it was like a week before and I told I was on like a group chat and I was like, hey, here's you have my number. Seven o' clock Tuesday. Just shoot me a text before to let me know.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay.

[Jared Freed]

That you want to do the call. So the next Tuesday comes along and they're like, hey, it's Angela. And I'm like, please. I, I wrote back. So seriously, like, I was like, this is not. I was like angered by it.

[Logan Yuri]

Wait, was the point that, that you didn't remember the name? Like, why was this?

[Jared Freed]

I didn't save the number. It's a week before. So, like this is a text chain with a friend of mine and this Angela. I don't even know if that's her name, but it's like. And then I get, hey, it's Angela. Like, no, no, no, no, no.

[Logan Yuri]

It should have said, hey, it's Angela comma so and so's friend. Are you still on to talk about comedy?

[Jared Freed]

That's the, that's the text. Okay, that's the text. And. And then I spoke to them and there were 24 and they were young. And I'm like. And I wrote back, I go, angela who? Like, I wrote back as if I was. Yeah, the stern principal. Like, I was like, Superintendent Freed. Like, I was like, angela who, who am I speaking with? Like, I was like. And I, I. And I said to them, I got on the phone with them, I was like, word of the wise, like, announce who you are. Hey, it's Angela. To a touring comedian, not a text. We want to get.

[Logan Yuri]

I think it's notable that they're 24 because it's like, it kind of maybe is like a professional etiquette thing that they don't have yet. Yet.

[Jared Freed]

Totally. Let's do another email. You ready? UUP BET.com Go sign up for the YouTube. We got so much great stuff on YouTube. We do these you up for more These you up extras. We do YouTube exclusives with all the guests that come on here. So you're going to get you up for more on YouTube. We want you to sign up. It is fun. And you can't get it on the audio stream unless you're a benefit subscriber, so. All right, ready? Let's do another email. J and J and L writing you about a breakup. That's been harder than I expected. I'd love your perspective. I'm 31, recently dated a 34 year old guy for about 3 months or early on. We talked about exclusivity and agreed to be exclusive, but he didn't want to put a boyfriend girlfriend label on things. He had gotten out of a two year relationship about six to eight months before we met. Said he always gets into serious Relationships right away. Monogamy wasn't really an issue for him. It was about moving too fast. I felt we were getting what we both wanted and I understood wanting to move slowly. I always felt that the breakup was hovering over us and holding things back. I was usually the one making plans and we saw each other a few times a week and texting in between. We connected well, but we started having small but frequent disagreements about plans, texting, and other petty things. I try to be patient, play it cool, but over time I realized I wasn't really feeling secure or happy. After a fight a couple weeks ago, he was. While he was on a work trip, I told him I didn't think we could keep moving forward. He was really upset and I told him I felt he needed more time to work on himself. Even though I believed it was the right decision, I was still heartbroken. I know three months isn't a long time, but the connection felt real. And I'm left wondering, if I had met him at a time when he was really ready for a relationship, would things have been different? Does timing really matter that much? Or is this just a case of the wrong person still thinking about what ifs? What do you think? Timing.

[Logan Yuri]

I like this one a lot. Yeah, I feel like I can answer it in a few ways. I can answer it broadly about just the concept of timing in relationships and I can answer it specifically about this person. So I think specifically for this person. I'm like, I don't think the issue was timing. Like you're telling me that within three months you're getting in a lot of disagreements and fights. I don't think it had to do with the fact that he got out of a two year relationship six to eight months before. I think you're just not a good fit. Like the first six months are the honeymoon phase. You only see the positives in people. Like you're still sort of wearing like your mask of, you know, seeming like you're this perfect person. And I find it's often after six months that the mask comes off and people are more their real selves. So I feel like they're just not a great fit because they're having this many disagreements such a short time in. And it doesn't sound like their disagreements are about him not being ready for a relationship or exclusivity or about title. Like she said, monogamy is easy for him. I think that they're actually just not a match. But she needs a story in her head to kind of understand why it didn't work out. And she's pointing to timing. But my guess based on the disagreement stuff is that it wasn't timing. And then for the broad timing, I

[Jared Freed]

would add on to that. Anytime I've said to someone, yeah, we're together, but we're not together. Yeah, we're together, but not whenever I've said to someone, let's check in. We're in a relationship. Let's not put a label on it yet. I'm not ready for that. That was me buying time. So he's buying time to make his decision. I think we have to acknowledge that a lot of men, myself included, are sitting there trying to be convinced to be more delusional than logical. So, like, a lot of women, they're like, I got it all ready. I'm, I'm ready to go. This is, I got my job and you got your job and I'm at the age and you're at the age. She even references his age and her age, which a lot of our listeners do. But I'm saying, like, a lot of that we went on a four hour date. A lot of women are like, give you all these facts to be like. And for this reason, we are good enough to see if we could be together forever. And I think what we have to, like, acknowledge the fact that I am delusional enough to think that I'm gonna be swept off my feet. Men are way more romantic than they're given credit for.

[Logan Yuri]

I agree.

[Jared Freed]

Do you hear this a lot?

[Logan Yuri]

Oh, yeah. And I think we see it in our research at Hinge. It's like, people think that Gen Z is so pragmatic that they're not romantic, but they're actually more romantic than millennials. Like, they're more likely to believe there's one person out there, there's a soulmate for you. And I don't have the exact stat, but. But I think men are way more romantic than people think.

[Jared Freed]

Right. And because I have this in me where I'm like, I'm just gonna be flying away on a love cloud, you know, after Cupid hits me with their arrow.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And the minute I say I'm having a good time, I'm just like, not there yet. Is the minute I'm trying to convince myself into this. Going with delusion versus staying in the reality of, like, I don't really see it and I don't really feel it. I have like a little pit in my stomach. So I think, like, when this guy says, like, I'll be to get, you know, let's be together. But I think he's really just buying time to like, yeah, maybe get. Have like something hit him over the head and he goes, you know what? I do love her.

[Logan Yuri]

I think I have a slightly different take, which is that I've talked to a lot of people about defining the relationship. What are we conversation. And I think, think nowadays, like there's a few things. There's like, are we exclusive or not? And what does exclusivity mean? There's. Are we deleting the app or not? And then there's, is there a label on it? And I do find that there are people that are just anti label, but they're interested in everything else. And I'm kind of like, how important is the label? But I feel like you're saying like, no, the label does matter because it's like a sign of your commitment or interest. And so I don't feel like what this guy did is that bad. Like, like, I don't know, maybe I'm just like relating to it a lot.

[Jared Freed]

I don't think it's bad.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Sorry to interrupt. I don't think it's bad. But I do think the label is what he tells people.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

When he's alone, that is what he says to someone. Are you in a relationship? And he can still say no.

[Logan Yuri]

That's true. You know the famous quote?

[Jared Freed]

What's that?

[Logan Yuri]

It's. I forget who it's from, but it's like, are you seeing anyone? Know, is there be a. Is there a person who'd be upset to hear you say that?

[Jared Freed]

Is it right? Is there a person that would be mad?

[Logan Yuri]

Is this like Dimitri Martin or something?

[Jared Freed]

Something like that. And I, I just think like, if someone's not getting the label, what he is doing is. I mean, honestly, if I don't have a. If I'm not in a boyfriend girlfriend thing, that leaves me open to the opportunity to be swept off my feet in the way. I was just referring to.

[Logan Yuri]

But if you're exclusive, theoretically, you're not pursuing other people.

[Jared Freed]

Theoretically, yeah. But if some dream scenario, and I think that's what they're opening up, but

[Logan Yuri]

that could even happen if you did have a label. Like, I think that's the thing about cheating is like if you're in a monogamous relationship, someone could still cheat. If you're in a polyamorous relationship, they're still cheating. It's like we, we tell ourselves that we're protected.

[Jared Freed]

Right. But then you're not a cheater. You know, like, okay, you know, I think there's a difference. Have you cheated? Well, there's the, there's no debatability, you know, you can't.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. You're saying he can. He has wiggle room.

[Jared Freed]

He has. I call it when someone doesn't want to put a label on.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

I call it a pre breakup. Like, I think he is just setting up the scene to be able to end this easier than it would have been had you put a label on it.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, so let me give you a different way of thinking about it.

[Jared Freed]

Okay.

[Logan Yuri]

And I feel like I have been this person, and I've seen this a lot in coaching someone's. Like, I always get into relationships too quickly. Like, in my book, I call this a hitcher. Like, they just hitch themselves to someone else's wagon. I want to move out of that.

[Jared Freed]

That.

[Logan Yuri]

So I'm promising myself that after this most recent breakup, I'm going to be single for six months. And then two months in, they meet someone they really like, and they don't want to let that opportunity go, but they also want to keep their promise to themselves in their mind, which is like, I'm not going to do what I always do, which is get into relationship too quickly. So there's a part of them that's like, I really do like you, and I am being swept off my feet, but I need to stay true to myself and not jump into things too quickly.

[Jared Freed]

Right. Don't you think that they're keeping that open because of this magical other thing that they're like, maybe that could happen?

[Logan Yuri]

I think that some people might feel that way, but in the example I'm giving, it's more of an identity piece, which is like, I've told my therapist, I've told my mom, I told my best friend, like, I am not gonna do it again, where I just jump into a relationship. And for them, it's about, like, staying true to the promise they made versus, well, if I have a label, I can't see anyone else, but if I don't have a label, I can see someone else. It's almost like they just want, they want to have the growth that they've sort of promised themselves. I think both could be true.

[Jared Freed]

Right. I, I just. When you're, like, saying, I want to have the growth I was promised myself, like, some of that is the magic, you know, the, the, the unknown, the not disappointing someone else, you know, Like, I don't know. I, I, we might be saying the same thing, I think.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. I just remember, like, the guy that I Dated before my husband. After, like, maybe a month of hanging out, he was like, do you want to be my girlfriend? And I was like, I really like you. But I got out of something kind of quickly. I just don't. I don't want to have that title again right now. And then, like, a month later, we had the conversation and we did it. But the reason I said no wasn't, I don't know if I like you or not. It's more like, I don't want to be this person that, like, Tarzan swings from one relationship to the next. So I think both can be true.

[Jared Freed]

But you're not with that guy anymore.

[Logan Yuri]

No, but it's not because of that.

[Jared Freed]

Okay, but I'm saying, like, when you say I don't want to, like, you know, I'm just like. When you say, like, well, not right now. Like, yeah, I feel like a lot of relationships are, like, sprinting into, like. Like, you have to be so, like, crazy to think that this is the one amongst all the other ones, this is the one that, like, we're going to definitely work out. Like, I don't even care about the other things. I don't know. I. Anytime I've been in the position where I'm like, let's not put a label on that. I'm like, it's me being like, all right, maybe this was, you know, I don't know. It's got caught in the contractual agreement. I'm like, why am I even sitting here thinking about this?

[Logan Yuri]

I think what you're saying makes sense, and probably a lot of people feel that way. But I also feel like it seems, like, very true to you and where you're at, because if you go back to the conversation we had at the beginning, it's like, I don't wanna make a promise I can't keep. Keep.

[Jared Freed]

Right?

[Logan Yuri]

So for you, a label is a promise you might not be able to keep. Or I think you have a fear of things not working out so you don't want to over commit or like, saying, like, all.

[Jared Freed]

You know, he rarely, you know, with. But even in this scenario, we connected well. But then. And. And she's sitting there like, well, should I go back? And because she ended it, she's wondering. He would have just sat around there in no relationship town. I think maybe a good. Like, she's wondering, did I make a mistake leaving a guy who was, like, really cool with this before relationship area? That was not that bad, but it wasn't what I wanted.

[Logan Yuri]

I don't think she broke up with him because she didn't have the label. I think what's happening is that she's 31, and she's like, wow, I don't meet that many guys that I like.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

I don't have that many chances to, like, meet someone great. I did feel a connection with him. Did I make a mistake in breaking it off? And should I have given him more time, or was it a timing thing? And what I would say to her if she was standing in front of us is, is you broke things off because it wasn't a good match. It didn't have to do with timing, and it didn't have to do with how you didn't have a label. Like, you guys were fighting super early on. You were having all these disagreements. And so, like, yes, it sucks that you met someone you had a connection with and didn't work out. But don't have regret over it, because when you're fighting that early, when it should be these, like, smooth sailing, honeymoon months, it was that you weren't the right match. Not timing.

[Jared Freed]

Uupetches.com let's play some games. We're gonna play games.

[Logan Yuri]

Oh, wait. Can I say one more thing? Okay. I did want to make the point about, like, general timing stuff. So I used to believe that the timing thing was an excuse, and if it was the right person, they would make the timing work. But I would say my thinking on that has evolved over the years where if it's the right person, wrong time, then it's the wrong person.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

And so do you know this, like, famous Sex and the City quote about, like, a taxi light?

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, Jordana's informed me about the taxi.

[Logan Yuri]

I'm not gonna say it perfectly, but it's. You know, men are like taxis. When their light is on, they are ready to commit, and they sort of, like, marry the next person they date. And then Charlotte is like, yeah, but with women, like, their light is always on. I think that's a generalization. But it goes to a lot of stuff you're saying where you're like, the woman is building the nest, and she's ready for the relationship. And so I think that timing does really matter and that if someone's caring for an ailing parent or about to move across the country or is, like, in medical school and doesn't have time, like, that timing does matter. But in this situation, I don't think it's an issue of timing.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, the timing does matter.

[Logan Yuri]

Oh, I'm gonna say the quote. Okay. Men are like cabs. When they're available. Their light goes on. They wake up one day and decide they're ready to settle down, have babies, whatever, and they turn their light on. The next woman they pick up, boom, that's the one they'll marry.

[Jared Freed]

It makes it so not fun.

[Logan Yuri]

Which part?

[Jared Freed]

That kind of makes it like, that kind of takes the magic out of a relationship that this guy, like, I feel like both ends. Like, the women are just ready to be picked up by some random guy. Like, it would have happened with anybody who was just ready.

[Logan Yuri]

I know that is.

[Jared Freed]

It does take, like. It's a little depressing. I understand why It's. It's.

[Logan Yuri]

It's.

[Jared Freed]

It has truth.

[Logan Yuri]

Have you ever heard women say, like, there's something about me, like, I. Every guy I date, he marries the next girl he dates after me.

[Jared Freed]

I've had that with me where I've. I've dated a lot of women that they've married the next guy. I think that's because, like, they were

[Logan Yuri]

ready, and they would have been ready with you, but you weren't ready.

[Jared Freed]

Right? I think they would have been ready with me. I. Which is like. That's like, another scary part for me personally. Like, just any. Yeah, let's do this. Oh, let's just do this. Lifetime commitment.

[Logan Yuri]

I know we're not in, like, the Jared coaching part anymore, but I just feel, like, such a strong urge to say to you, like, I think. Think you just have so much fear, and I get it. It's like, right, well.

[Jared Freed]

But I. If they don't care, someone has to care.

[Logan Yuri]

What do you mean?

[Jared Freed]

I'm like. I think a lot of men, like, you know, especially from this show, I get. The takeaway is, like, that this will work.

[Logan Yuri]

Uhhuh.

[Jared Freed]

You know, And I don't know you. You know, this will work to get me where I'm going.

[Logan Yuri]

You're saying women say that?

[Jared Freed]

I think it feels like a lot of women's response to a lot of guys. Like, I can do with this.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

I can figure this out.

[Logan Yuri]

And you want be a woman who's like, jared, I've liked you more than anyone I've ever liked?

[Jared Freed]

No, I want to like them more than anyone I've ever liked. You know, And I think, like, that's also the performer in me. Like, I go on a date and I would, like, be like, yeah, this would be good with a lot of people. Like, I.

[Logan Yuri]

But I think that's, like, the reality of life is that you don't wait until you're 50 and you find the perfect person. You find someone great and then you build a wonderful relationship with them. And I do think the older you get, the more you're like, I've waited this long. Like she better be perfect. And that's just not realistic.

[Jared Freed]

Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney Plus. Let's go get ready for a new case.

[Logan Yuri]

We're the greatest partners of all time. New friends Gary the Snake and your

[Jared Freed]

last name the Snake Dream Team. New Habitats Zootopia has a secret reptile population. You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home. Zootopia 2 now available on Disney Plus. Rated PG and right now you can get Disney plus and Hulu for just $4.99@ cents point month for three months with a special limited time offer ends March 24th. After three months, Plan Auto renews at 1299amonth. Terms apply now at the Home Depot. Receive 12 months special financing and free basic installation on carpet projects with lifeproof Lifeproof with pet proof technology, Home decorators collection and traffic Master carpets bring a new look to your floors or give them a durable surface that stands up to life's tough messes. Get 12 months special financing on Instagram installed carpet projects right now at the Home Depot offer valid March 12 through March 29, 2026. Exclusions and additional charges may apply for licenses. See Home Depot.com license numbers let's play some games. UUP edges.com we'll play Red Flag or Deal Breaker this is the game sweeping the country. Something you're dating someone, one thing happens. Is it a red flag? You see it move on? Or is it a deal breaker? You end at sight unseen. Are you ready?

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

JJ and L I'm writing in with a red flag or deal breaker scenario. I'd love your take on I went on a few dates with a guy that were genuinely great, easy convers, effort in person and clear interest. When we were together, the issue was everything between the dates. He rarely followed up, didn't check in, plan stayed vague unless I initiated and confirmed them. At first I told myself this was just his communication style. But when I stopped filling in the gaps and matched his energy, the connection immediately fizzled. No follow up text, no had fun message, no attempt to make the next plan. Red flagger. Deal breaker. If someone only shows interest when you're face to face, is that a normal dating mismatch? Or is it? Or is the lack of follow through already the answer?

[Logan Yuri]

I love this one. I think people who aren't single would be surprised to hear how often like coaching clients or people in my dating classes. Ask about texting. Like, texting is such a big part of relationships, especially at the beginning, right?

[Jared Freed]

It is. It is one of those things married people have no empathy for. They don't think that the text in between matters at all. You're just going on a date. You've been on five dates. They're very caught up. It's like almost like being like. You didn't like the turkey sandwich? Well, it had nothing on it. And you're. And they're like, well, it's turkey and bread. And you're like, well, I kind of, like, want some mayonnaise and some lettuce and tomato and mustard. And, you know, I like when it's toasted. And they're like, well, you have turkey and bread.

[Logan Yuri]

Totally.

[Jared Freed]

Just eat the turkey and bread. You said you're hungry for a turkey sandwich. I gave you a turkey sandwich. And you're like, yeah, but, like, a little pepper Jack cheese on it would be nice. Really? You need pepper Jack. That's what the texting is.

[Logan Yuri]

I feel like you're.

[Jared Freed]

The texting is the pepper Jack cheese on a turkey sandwich. And your friends are like, stop complaining.

[Logan Yuri]

I feel like you're channeling your mom the day after Thanksgiving, giving you a turkey sandwich that's just turkey and bread. And you're like, mom, this isn't enough.

[Jared Freed]

Right. I want the. The. The gobbler. I want the cranberry sauce, and I want the stuffing that's put on the.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It's.

[Jared Freed]

It does feel like this is. Because I think the text in between does matter.

[Logan Yuri]

Well, I. Your metaphor is a little strange, but I do like it, which is the modern data is saying it's not a turkey sandwich without the condiments. And the married person is saying, all that matters is turkey sandwich. And I think more and more, the texting is a must have. And at Hinge, we have a good term for this digital body language. It's the way they.

[Jared Freed]

It's a great term.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. So does your DBL match or what is their dbl, their digital body language, mean? And so the person writing in is like, their IRL person is great. But their DBL Persona leaves a lot to be desired. And does it matter? And like, in our research at Hinge, we've seen that, like, in early dating, the first few weeks, the first few months, like, it does matter a lot because that's the majority of the time that you're spending together. You're not married, you're not in a house where there's more irl interactions. And so what I would say to the person who wrote in is if they were just like quote unquote a bad texter, but they still were in touch and they still were putting effort in just not as much as you want. I'd be like, okay, that's not ideal, but it's fine. It's like you are willing to accept this minimum and they're willing to give you that minimum even though you'd want more than that. But it seems like this person is so extreme they're not even like meeting her minimum. And I think at that point it's like, like you took a step back and he didn't take a step forward. And that's all you need to know.

[Jared Freed]

Well, I, I, I'm with you. I love digital body language because I think it helps when it comes to texting between dates. I think putting it in you form is like not a great way to go because you can't like force someone, you can't push a string.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

You can't force someone to be a good texter. And then who the person that takes over this conversation is usually a, a societally hot person will go, I'm a bad text. And it's an excuse. That's not a real excuse. That is someone who's societally hot who people go out with no matter what. Text or no text.

[Logan Yuri]

Right. Like I can get away with this.

[Jared Freed]

Right. They are in a way a head to put on someone's wall. So they've never had to do texting in between or never felt that texting between matter to them because it just didn't work into how they flirt and how they connect with someone because someone doesn't need connect with them. They are just a beautiful thing that can be chased. So I don't really acknowledge the people that say bad texter. I think if you keep it in eye terms the bad texter is actually like not a problem. Cuz I would say if I have nothing to text them. Yeah, we had a bad date.

[Logan Yuri]

Wait, what's the iterms thing here?

[Jared Freed]

So I'm saying saying they're a bad texter is like not and is not the way you should be talking about it.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

I would like to text them this inside joke that we had on the date. So I shall send that text.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Do they get back to it? Do they haha. Do they say hey this was so funny. I actually have this busy day today.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And I can't really text you but I'll see you this Tuesday and Let's discuss this. That is a normal way for anyone good text or a bad text or to respond to this that if so if I have nothing to text this person then I do not like this person enough to go out with them again, good or bad texter. So I, I think when this person's like, they don't text me in between I'm like what the are you doing?

[Logan Yuri]

Wait, I love this topic. Cuz I, I'm just like obsessed with this idea of like the role of texting and early dating. And it reminds me I hadn't thought about this in a while but like a few years ago I tweeted something like like unless you're a brain surgeon, you can get back to someone within 24 hours.

[Jared Freed]

Right?

[Logan Yuri]

And then somebody responded and was like I am a brain surgeon and I can definitely get back to someone quicker than in 24 hours.

[Jared Freed]

And listen, 24 hours is a low bar.

[Logan Yuri]

It's really low.

[Jared Freed]

Let's. So I've had people text me and I'm like wow, I didn't really get back to them. I'm like I must not be that interested. I know all it takes and especially with reaction emojis, I mean reaction, all you do. Ahaha. Makes someone feel really good. Do you care enough to make someone feel really good? Do you care enough to make someone like feel connected and feel heard? Okay.

[Logan Yuri]

I will say there is a certain type of person I like was seeing a guy a long time ago who had this personality and one of my best friends has this personality. When you're with them, they're incredibly present. You feel like the only person in the world. They never check their phone and it's amazing for the in real life. But they also are really bad at getting in touch with you because every time, time that they're with someone else or doing something, they're not on their phone. And so it's like the shadow side of how present they are is that they don't get back to you. But I think this person isn't describing that, they're describing something more intense. It's like even if you're super present with the person you're with, like literally while you're going to the bathroom, can you not respond for 15 seconds?

[Jared Freed]

It's not even about the response though. Yeah, like I actually. Let's take the response out of it.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

Your friends who don't respond that well or that or that that often, that's not the concern. Do you. Whenever I hear this. Yeah, this, this, this email we've gotten it before. It's always like, well, they're not a good texter. They're this, they're that. How about, what do you have to say to them?

[Logan Yuri]

So you think it's about the fact that they don't have enough in common?

[Jared Freed]

I think that they're not really connecting with this person and they're hoping that they're going to be as good on the date or think about them as much.

[Logan Yuri]

She's saying in person, we connect really well.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah. And they're saying, saying, because we connect. I was hoping that they would have, like, a fun thing to say to me in between these dates. Let's stop cons. Stop confusing hope for a plan. It's not a plan. The plan is. I, like, I just think there's. There's no responsibility taken with this person. When you go. If they'd said if their question was, hey, I went on this date with this guy. We really connected on football.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah.

[Jared Freed]

And then I sent them this. The guy who went streaking during the super bowl, and they didn't.

[Logan Yuri]

Is that a real thing that happened?

[Jared Freed]

The guy who ran on the field during the super bowl, he wore meta glasses and taped the whole experience. So I sent it to him. If you thought of that to send them, then you did have a good connection. You thought of something. And then if they didn't write back to that at all, I would be like, it would be a little weird.

[Logan Yuri]

I could talk about this with you for hours. Because to me, it actually gets it, like a pretty deep existential question, which is. Is like, what is real life? Is real life when you're in person, face to face, and everything else is just, like, connection to get you there? Or is your digital life your real life, too?

[Jared Freed]

And that's a philosophical debate that has nothing to do with their feelings. Do you feel underwhelmed by their response to something you brought up from the date if you do that.

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, okay, let me. Wait, let me just go back to what I was saying, because I do agree. I think you're right. But I'll just say it a different way, which is like, there are people out there who would be like. Like, real life is the only thing that matters and that's in person. And I think increasingly younger people, Gen Z, Gen Alpha would be like, my digital life. My Roblox life is just as much my life as seeing my friends. And so, of course, texting matters. And then I think in this situation, she's like, but how could we have such a good connection to person and like, genuinely bond, but have nothing over tax. And I think what it boils down to for this person is he doesn't like you enough. Enough to do the bare minimum to see you again. And once you stop trying, he didn't try at all. So this isn't your person.

[Jared Freed]

Well, and I. I think she has to admit I do get turned on by a text, a textual relationship, or

[Logan Yuri]

I need it to feel secure. And she's not getting what she needs to feel secure.

[Jared Freed]

Right. As opposed to they don't do this, they don't do that. Like, who gives a about them? Yeah, it's like she's got to acknowledge I do need these things in a relationship. You know, like, that's like the biggest. Like, Like, I. I agree with what you're saying. Like, there are these people, but, like, there are these people that I don't want to date.

[Logan Yuri]

I think that's exactly right. And if two people that don't care about texting don't text a lot, then that's great. But she is a person for whom texting, or at least making plans, needs to be there, and he can't give that to her. I think she has to walk away.

[Jared Freed]

The whole premise of this podcast always was these are the conversations that someone could go, oh, that's stupid. That's small. Small. And it's like, well, we're acknowledging they're not that small. So I think she needs to say, this isn't that small to me as it could be stupid to someone else. Let's do one more.

[Logan Yuri]

And also, that's why it's called you up. It's literally like a text that is common throughout early dating. And like, that text matters.

[Jared Freed]

It matters. It's not nothing. Let's do one more. Logan, Yuri, we're so happy you're here. Everyone go follow at Logan Yuri, JJ and L. I'm a guy writing in because I need to know if I'm losing my mind or if dating in New York City has just become. Become this. Lately, every woman I meet seems to have built a life so optimized, so perfectly scheduled, that there's literally no room for another human being. I'm not asking to be someone's whole world. I just want to exist somewhere on the priority list between Pilates and her nine step skincare routine. Don't get me wrong, these women are ambitious, organized, and clearly know what they want. But honestly, a lot of them are also rigid. I've tried suggesting a spontaneous dinner and get told it's her Sunday reset. Or I try to make make plans and it has to fit into a 90 minute window between her cold plunge and therapy. I even asked one girl to grab drinks and she said she'd have to check if it aligns with her bandwidth. Her bandwidth. I felt like I was negotiating a corporate merger. Boundaries are fine, I respect that. But here's something I can't stop thinking is a possible deal breaker. If someone's schedule is so rigid that making time for me is impossible, it signals they won't prioritize the relationship long term. That makes dating feel transactional, not human. And honestly, that's exhausting. Has dating always been like this or is this just an NYC thing? Am I missing something or is it just really that no one wants to make space for a relationship? Would love your thoughts. Exhausted but still trying. What do you think?

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, I have a lot of thoughts, but do you want to go first as a guy?

[Jared Freed]

Well, I would say there's two versions. There's I, I, I've met this person and I've also met the person that it's like open anytime. Make a plan. We are so pumped. Can't wait. To me, when I've dated this person, it felt like a defense mechanism to not get ahead of themselves. They built a whole life because maybe a relationship in the past or relationships in general have disappointed them where they've gotten ahead emotionally and they're like, I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm going to plan the out of my life with classes and girls nights and dinners and drinks. And I call them the aunt woman because they generally always have a nephew or a niece that they're way too into. Like, they always have a nephew or niece that they like, like do more for this nephew or niece than I've ever seen an aunt do ever. So they always have a nephew and a niece. They're so into that person. I can't even understand the amount they do for this nephew or niece. But they've put all of their effort and, and emotion into those things because if they even leave a little on the table for a guy to have a little fun and get a little carried away, then they might get disappointed by that and it will ruin everything for them. So that's my I've met this girl and to me it's like a no go on a date because now we have two different philosophies. Me, a guy who's looking to like casually get to know someone, to become like a friend who becomes a lover, who becomes this like, thing that makes me get away from the logical. And it's a person who's asking me to fit into their logical thing and then go on the line of logical, which I can't do. So they're generally someone I couldn't date.

[Logan Yuri]

Wait, have you ever done that on stage? The like, nefarious and energy? No, I think it's really funny.

[Jared Freed]

I. I will make it a clip. Do that. Yeah, I've talked about the aunt woman before. Okay. Yeah, it is a no. But I've never talked about on stage.

[Logan Yuri]

I just think it's very funny to be like, everyone's always like, she's such a great aunt. You're like, let's dig into that right there.

[Jared Freed]

Well, it's like, yeah, she's a great aunt because she doesn't want to deal with her own feelings in the fact she wants to play house with another person's family.

[Logan Yuri]

Really funny.

[Jared Freed]

I mean, I've seen this. You see it all the time. But it. There's. This is like the other edge of like, woman who's looking to. I've seen this from my end in dating, but what do you think?

[Logan Yuri]

Okay, so what I'd say to this guy is like, that's one type of woman and it exists. But why are you only dating that type of woman? And there is something there. It's like, are you particularly drawn to people that are super organized and type A and maybe you think that's who you should be with because you're disorganized and you want them to organize your life, but then it turns out they're too rigid for you. It's so. It's like, I think step one is like, just date a different type of person.

[Jared Freed]

Right.

[Logan Yuri]

The other thing I would say is that something I've seen a lot in my research at Hinge and I did this Gen Z panel is that people are so obsessed with self care. And I think at some point self care becomes selfish. And it's like, if you want love, if you want a relationship, you have to make space for someone in your life. And someone on this Hinge Gen Z panel said to me, like, I have my schedule really locked in and so I'll know I found the right person when they can fit exactly into my schedule. And I'm like, that is wild. Like, that is insane to me. Like, no, when you meet someone great, they are worth becoming more flexible for. Like, of course it's two different people coming together. They're not just like somebody that like, looks at your calendar and like, slots themselves in, like, I don't think that that's how romance works. And.

[Jared Freed]

And would they respect that person?

[Logan Yuri]

That's how I. It's like kind of pathetic. It's like, no, you want someone with a full life and then the two of you decide together other. We're gonna merge our lives. We're gonna merge our social lives. Like, it's not like they're your assistant and like they just meet when you're free. I think that that's just really like the wrong way of looking at it. And I'm passionate about this topic because I think that boundaries are a good thing when used correctly. But I think that people overuse that term, overuse that concept to kind of be like, everything is on my terms or else. And I think that it is what you said. I think it's kind of like a fear response where it's like I'm trying to control things or like I feel safer when things are in control. And then the way that they feel in control is like I have my nine step skincare routine. Or like I always go to bed at this time and it's like part of falling in love, part of meeting someone is like, sometimes like, you mix things up and.

[Jared Freed]

Yeah, I just, I also, I just don't think. I'm sorry.

[Logan Yuri]

No, no, no.

[Jared Freed]

I just don't think you're. How can you get to know someone that way? Of course it would feel more like inner view. Definitely those dates where it's like, I. I mean, I had this. I was. Someone tried to fix me up with this girl and she's so beautiful and tried to do it over Instagram. So I'm looking at her life and it's great, but she was like, she was always surfing.

[Logan Yuri]

Uhhuh.

[Jared Freed]

And always out east. And I'm like, well, what. How would a second date. And this is me getting ahead. I'm like, how does a second date happen? Like, like, am I going to be taking them away from the, you know, this, this travel out east surfing lifestyle? You know?

[Logan Yuri]

Like, I do think that's one where you're getting ahead of yourself because what if she's like, Jared, like, of course I would change my schedule if we fell in love. Like, surfing is something I do because I have free time, but if I had less free time, I'd surf less.

[Jared Freed]

Right?

[Logan Yuri]

It's funny you say surfing because like, a long time ago I dated this guy who was super athletic and it was like, I felt like he had this like, pin board or whatever that thing is where you, like, spin it, like, whatever. And I was like, oh, I feel like there's one that says surfing. There's one that says biking. There's one that says running. And that I was just like one of them. And it's like, if he happened to spin it and land on me, I got to see him. But I never came before those other activities. I was like, equal or below to them. And so that didn't work out. But so I think you can have hobbies and date someone, but it's really what you choose to prioritize. And so what I'm hearing from his letter is, is these women are not prioritizing me or they're not willing to prioritize me at the beginning. And I think that it takes a lot of momentum to get into a relationship. So, yeah, you do have to adjust your schedule.

[Jared Freed]

Right. Is it a deal breaker? I think for him, like, I think his type is showing itself, like, and this isn't his type.

[Logan Yuri]

And then that's not the only girl in New York.

[Jared Freed]

The problem is, I do understand where he's like, maybe he's turned on by, like, a type a businesswoman who's, like, a powerful career, you know, woman. It's like, like, it sucks that he's like, to get to the thing I want, like, there's no real easy way into that world, like, to, like, serve how I date someone. And, you know, maybe that's seeing what it's like to date, you know, a certain other type of woman.

[Logan Yuri]

Yeah. And I think everyone's on a spectrum. Like, there's probably a spectrum from, like, the most type A every minute of my day is scheduled to I'm always free. I'm super loosey goosey. And I think, think he needs to date someone, like, more in the middle.

[Jared Freed]

Right. And like, this is a deal breaker for him, you know? Like, I don't know if it's a deal breaker as a person, but I. Cause, like, I don't know. If I was told, like, I don't know, I, I, it wouldn't be for me either. You have 90 minutes to convince me that my skincare routine, I know, doesn't matter as much next week is, like, kind of a tough way to start dating.

[Logan Yuri]

Of course I think that he should talk to a therapist or somebody about this, which is. Why is he so drawn to this type of person? Because I have seen this pattern before, and I kind of said this before, but it's like someone who's, like, disorganized or indecisive or feel lost in their career. They want to partner with someone who seems like, really ambitious and they know what they're doing because they think that that decisiveness will rub off when, like, that's actually something he needs to change on his own. And you can't borrow that from your partner. And instead he needs to find someone who's honestly more on the same page as him and not date someone to become more like them.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Them.

[Jared Freed]

Logan Yuri, thank you for coming on the show. This was fantastic. Everyone go follow Logan at Logan Yuri how to Not Die Alone. The book is out right now. You can buy it. Go, go, go. Go get it. I'm Jared Freed. We're here every Wednesday and Friday. Back next episode. Boom. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right on in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles you can enjoy bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water in the second half. Stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft styles. Available at your local grocery store or online at athleticbrewing.com near Beer Fit for all times

[Logan Yuri]

betches.