Ryan Seacrest’s Dating Red Flags Make No Sense

Summary

U Up? – “Ryan Seacrest’s Dating Red Flags Make No Sense”

Hosts: Jordana Abraham & Jared Freid
Date: April 29, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into modern dating culture, celebrity “dating advice” (specifically Ryan Seacrest's recently publicized red flags), the realities of expectations versus dating app behaviors, and some highly relatable listener dilemmas. Jordana and Jared blend their signature sarcasm, honesty, and sharp insight, oscillating between playful banter and real, actionable dating advice.

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Main Themes & Notable Segments

1. Weather, Life Updates & Relocation Fantasies

00:31–03:37

• The hosts catch up, discussing Jordana’s upcoming Florida trip with her kids and Jared’s move to Delray, Florida.
• They bemoan the confusing spring weather in New York vs. the South.
• Banter about parents becoming more social after moving to Florida and the boomer-dinner phenomenon.

2. Game Show Hosts, Jeopardy, and Ryan Seacrest’s Career Obsession

04:15–06:48

• Jared fangirls over Jeopardy! champions (Ken Jennings, Jamie Ding) and muses about taking over Family Feud.
• “When is it enough money?” Jared wonders aloud regarding celeb hosts like Seacrest and Steve Harvey, tying it to dating app red flags.

3. Ryan Seacrest’s Contradictory Dating Red Flags

06:49–10:41

• Jared and Jordana dig into Seacrest’s viral “red flags,” like expecting a partner to say “hi” to strangers on walks and share coffee routines (“If you don’t say hi to people or like your coffee a certain way, it’s a red flag”).

• Both hosts find Seacrest’s takes to be bizarre and disconnected from reality.

  “Can you imagine if there was a woman out there who made a TikTok, ‘Story time: I dated Ryan Seacrest, and he ended it when I put Chobani creamer into my coffee’—you’d be like, this guy’s a crazy monster.” – Jared (08:31)

• They joke that Seacrest’s real “red flag” is being obsessed with money and public perception, not small talk etiquette.

  “Ryan Seacrest, you know, a woman has to be really into a guy who loves money.” – Jared (09:31)

  “If you don't like money as much as I do, that's a red flag!” – Jordana (09:47)

• Jared speculates about celeb “dating” and product placement: “He’s not on Tinder. It’s a deal with Tinder so he can keep talking about it. There's some sort of, like, under the table payment.” (08:01)

4. Celebrity Hosts & The Fraudulence of Media Soundbites

11:00–12:58

• Discussion expands to Kelly Ripa and Page Six culture.
• They reflect on how morning TV hosts manufacture relatable quotes for press – "Hosts live on sound bites, they're not having deep conversations." – Jordana (12:36)
• Critique of privileged celebrity narratives (Ripa "horrified" her son wants to act) and how media cycles these tales.

5. Listener Email #1: The ‘Let’s Be Friends First’ Guy

19:57–31:38

Context:

A 27F has been on six dates with a 27M from Hinge, but after some initial chemistry, he pulls back, says he prefers getting to know girls “platonically” first, and resists intimacy.

Key Insights & Quotes:

• Jared suggests the friend rationale is a smokescreen:

  “That's him trying to communicate something he doesn't know how to communicate: ‘I don’t want to lead you on, so I want to slow this down as much as I can…’” (23:00)

• Both agree “I’m just looking for friendship” on apps is delusional and a bad-faith excuse (24:49).
• Jordana notes, “Part of dating is vulnerability. There’s always the possibility you’ll go on several dates and realize you don’t want the same thing.” (26:24)
• Jared frames dating mindsets as “destination vs. journey” – women are often destination-focused (marriage/commitment), men more on the journey (fun/exploration), and both need some of each.
• Key practical advice:

  "Be turned off, don’t be confused. It's not about him wanting to be friends. It's about him doing stuff that's turning you off." – Jordana (29:58)

• No rules or early detection can fully prevent this from happening. Honesty with yourself and expressing your needs is still best practice.

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6. Icky or Picky: Is It Too Much to Expect My Date to Communicate Where They Are?

32:42–44:56

Context:

A 41F in Lake Tahoe asks whether it’s fair or “picky” to expect men to text when they've arrived at the date destination and provide their location inside a bar or restaurant.

Key Takeaways:

• Both hosts agree it’s courteous but not universally expected.
• Jared connects it to themes of safety and effort: “The theme of today is safety…she’s a little bit like, I don't want to walk into a dark bar and not know what I'm getting into.” (35:18)
• Jordana: “It might be indicative of a more thoughtful person.” (35:12)
• Not a hard “red flag,” but can be one small sign of overall effort/consideration.
• They play a tongue-in-cheek “worse date behavior” ranking game (43:00), landing on this as relatively minor compared to other missteps.

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7. Listener Email #2: Engagement Blue Balls—When Will He Propose?

46:08–57:52

Context:

A listener is frustrated after ring shopping with her boyfriend and, months later, still no proposal despite elaborate trips and clear momentum.

Key Insights & Quotes:

• Jordana spells out the faux-surprise trope:

  "The idea that it’s going to be so surprising...it shouldn’t be THAT surprising. You should have had many talks about getting engaged. This is 2026, not a man choosing you from a field. It's a two-way conversation." (49:53)

• Jared: “If I went shopping for rings with someone and then five months later still had not been engaged and planned a trip…every month that goes by after ring shopping, the pressure is more and more. There’s a reason he initiated that.” (53:40)
• Advice: Don’t suppress your needs for the sake of “romantic surprise.” Have a grown-up timeline conversation.
• Jared sets a hard limit: “How many months after you’ve looked at rings do you have to propose? Six months.” (56:52)
• Both host note: If your gut says “something’s up,” press for clarity.

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8. Red Flag / Deal Breaker: Suggesting Your Partner Use Your Ex’s Cologne

61:28–64:56

• The question: Is it a red flag or deal breaker if your partner wants you to wear the scent of their ex?
• Both hosts find it’s fine if you don’t volunteer too much context.
• “It’s all in how you say it. You don’t need to say, ‘My ex used to wear it.’” – Jared (62:18)
• “I don’t think relationships need to be completely honest about all things.” – Jordana (63:32)
• Broader lesson: Omit unnecessary details that don’t benefit anyone.

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9. Red Flag / Deal Breaker: Refuses Parental Leave Because It’s ‘Humiliating’

65:06–74:43

Context:

A Canadian listener split from her ex over his refusal to consider splitting parental leave (despite her out-earning him), claiming it would be “humiliating” for him.

Discussion:

• Both Jordana and Jared are critical of partners who refuse for ego reasons.

  “If a man said it’s humiliating and that’s why he’s not taking parental leave, that’s a loser move.” – Jared (70:57)

• Division of labor should “optimize” for the family’s well-being, not rigid 50/50.
• Jordana: “Just as crazy as saying, ‘I wouldn’t do it because it’s humiliating’ is saying ‘I won’t date anyone who won’t split 50/50’. You have to adapt to your situation.” (73:12)
• Couples should approach parenting as a partnership that maximizes family benefit, not as a strict fairness ledger.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Seacrest’s Coffee Red Flag:
  “That would be crazy. Like, so everything he's saying right there: 'I like to have coffee with a woman in the morning.' That's the end of your story. You know, cream in it—you're not ending it over cream. THAT’S crazy.” – Jared (08:45)
• On Relationship Mindsets:
  “A lot of guys are about the journey and a lot of women are about the destination. Destination-heavy, you’re seen as the hero. But you need a little journey in your destination.” – Jared (27:32)
• On the Dreaded Engagement Wait:
  “It felt like engagement blue balls.” – Listener email, read by Jordana (48:32)
• On Being Honest With Needs:
  “If you really want to be surprised, you wouldn’t say anything. But I cared more about knowing a general timeline than I did about being surprised. We have to stop pretending like we don’t care.” – Jordana (51:44)
• On “Team” Parenting:
  “Being a team doesn’t mean 50/50. It means figuring out how to optimize for the family’s good.” – Jordana (72:25)

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Recurring Topics & Overall Tone

• Sarcastic, banter-filled analysis of celebrity dating “advice” as mostly performative nonsense.
• Sincere encouragement for self-awareness and honest communication in real-life dating—over “rules,” vague “red flag” lists, or viral wisdom.
• Acknowledgement of the vulnerabilities in dating, proposing, and parenting—framed in actionable, constructive ways.
• Regular reminders to “be turned off, not confused,” and take people at their word (or actions, or lack thereof).
• Relatability is high: listener questions span various ages, stages, and communities.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |---------|-------------|-----------| | Opening Banter | Weather, travel, parents in FL | 00:31–03:37 | | Game Show Hosts | Jeopardy, Seacrest's career | 04:15–06:48 | | Seacrest Dating Flags | Odd red flags & analysis | 06:49–10:41 | | Celeb Host Soundbites | Kelly Ripa, media cycles | 11:00–12:58 | | Listener Dilemma #1 | ‘Let’s be friends first’ guy | 19:57–31:38 | | Icky or Picky | Date-arrival communication | 32:42–44:56 | | Engagement Blue Balls | Waiting for a proposal | 46:08–57:52 | | Red Flag / Deal Breaker | Wearing ex's cologne | 61:28–64:56 | | Parental Leave Debate | Splitting leave, ego, fairness | 65:06–74:43 |

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Summary

This episode is classic U Up?: deeply plugged into the absurdities of modern dating (“Ryan Seacrest’s Dating Red Flags Make No Sense”), but always circling back to grounded, real-life dating guidance: be authentic, clarify your needs, consider what truly matters, and let go of viral but meaningless “rules.” The hosts’ chemistry and sharpness make the advice approachable and the laughs generous, even as the discussion oscillates from pop culture to genuinely personal advice.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

He's, you know.

[A]

Oh, man, Ron's on his way out.

[B]

No, he's not. No.

[A]

You can feel it.

[B]

What are you, the Redditors?

[A]

I am the Redditors. Give her the run.

[B]

What? No.

[A]

Ron, find this guy home in the country.

[B]

I would never.

[A]

Another country.

[B]

I am obsessed with Ron, even though I'm a very love hate relationship with him right now.

[A]

We're figuring it out.

[B]

Yes. When he's. It's a little toxic. When he's sweet, he's very sweet. I forgive him. Right. When he's bad, he's very bad.

[A]

He's replaced toxic relationships.

[B]

Yes. My talks. I have a toxic relationship with my dog, but he is obsessed with me. So, you know, that's why I stay. Hello and welcome back to the UF podcast. I'm Jordana Abraham.

[A]

And I am Jared Freed. How are you, Jordana? What's going on? Good to see you.

[B]

I am good. I'm gearing up for my trip with. I. I don't want to call it a vacay because I'm seeing my mom, but.

[A]

A work trip. Yes.

[B]

A trip to Florida.

[A]

You're coming to. Yeah, Going to Florida. And you're bringing the.

[B]

And I'm bringing my kids. Yeah. So it doesn't feel like I'm like on my way to like kicking off my boots and having a relaxing time, but it is, it is a trip that I was excited to plant.

[A]

Well, I, you know, I don't, I don't like, we get into weather maybe too much on this show sometimes, but the weather here is like not the weather there. It is all over the place. It is as different here to Delray as it gets. Like I think through. I. Well, I guess the winter would be very different. But like the idea that here is like, put on maybe a jacket and it's a little cold and get ready for the day and there is like maybe the perfect time of year. So you're like flying into a destination.

[B]

That was my thought.

[A]

I'm like, you're doing the right time and you've had it with this.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I mean, end of April, like, people

[A]

are like, I want it to Be over. And it's not every day.

[B]

I've kind of felt that way for like a full month now.

[A]

I don't think you're alone. I think people have the Northeast and then this is my now Southern.

[B]

This is. We should move to Florida weather.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In New York. This is like, why are we still here? I don't understand. Like, it's going to soon. We're going to be happy with where we are. Be right now. It's like, right now I'm like, zillowing.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Should I just pack it all up and.

[A]

Well, you'll. You're going to get a tour of my apartment.

[B]

You guys are going to come over,

[A]

we're going to do a dinner. We already have a date in the calendar. We're going to go check out. I'm going to show you my Delray.

[B]

Indeed. You're going to. You're going to meet the girls.

[A]

I'm going to meet the girls.

[B]

Break out that Uncle J train hat.

[A]

I'll break out the hat. You'll meet my girl.

[B]

Yes. I. I mean, I've already met her, but I'll meet her again.

[A]

You're going to see her again.

[B]

I'm hoping the girls just start screaming. Screaming when they see you. So it's like a thing.

[A]

It would be amazing if every kid sees me. That's a throwback to the story of me meeting my girlfriend's niece who hated me. Yeah. I'm excited to have you down. We're. We're gonna have a good time. We'll. I'll show you Atlantic Avenue, the whole deal. So.

[B]

Yes. Oh, my God, my mom is so absurd. She's like, we should set up a dinner with, like, me and Jared's parents. I'm like, why would we ever do that?

[A]

Really?

[B]

That doesn't make any sense.

[A]

Why not? What I.

[B]

Well, I'm like, because I want to be able to, like, see these people again.

[A]

Well, you know, it's funny, like, you know, my parents since moving to Florida, and it sounds like your mom, too. There's this. They love being social. Like the get together. We need a dinner. I've been invited to so many dinners by, like, boomers that are like, let's do a dinner.

[B]

I think everyone also has a lot of time down there.

[A]

There's a lot of time on people's hands. Yeah, I. I haven't noticed. I got here yesterday. I went to the Cellar. I did shows last night.

[B]

Like, here, people like you have to squeeze in a dinner between like six. I mean, look. Look at you went on a date here. I feel like you were, like, doing it before the show and after the

[A]

podcast and, like, listen, I am watching Jeopardy. On a nightly basis. Like, that's how much time I have. I.

[B]

It's happening already.

[A]

I am a Jeopardy guy. I. Are you watching? You're not watching Jeopardy.

[B]

Jamie Ding. Mike. Mike and I watch Jeopardy. From time to time.

[A]

Have you seen this guy, Jamie Ding?

[B]

No. Is he on a roll?

[A]

27 episodes in a row, this guy.

[B]

And then I was the new Ken Jennings.

[A]

Well, Ken Jennings. Do you know how many. Can we Google how many episodes in a row? Ken Jennings.

[B]

Well, he hosts now.

[A]

He's the host. He's the wonderful host. He's really great at the job. I'm so happy he's the host.

[B]

Still miss Alex Trebek, but he is good.

[A]

Well, he ain't coming back. We gotta really. We gotta dig him up.

[B]

Sorry. I'll move on.

[A]

74 episodes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

74. And Jamie Ding is on, like, an incredible run. He's almost at a million dollars. What's he at now? 28.

[B]

The weird thing about Ken Jennings is he's definitely making a lot more money hosting than he was.

[A]

That's the gig of the century. That's why when Ryan Seacrest got the Wheel of Fortune job, I was like, what the. Yeah, that is in what get. If, like, was.

[B]

Sorry, no, ours.

[A]

Right. Made a million dollars, and they tape them in, like, three months for the whole year.

[B]

Yeah. That's a good job.

[A]

Seacrest, like, Jamie Ding is on a 28 game Jeopardy. Streak, and it's like, wow. And then you go, oh, what's the next time? Ken Jennings, 74, he's got a long time. That's Mickey Mantle. That's crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, so what game show would you

[B]

want to host if you could host one game show? I know. I know. What? I would pick one for you.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, the Bachel.

[B]

Oh, no. I think you should host Family Feud.

[A]

I would love to host Family Feud.

[B]

Goodbye.

[A]

Steve Harvey says. And Steve Harvey's pretty good.

[B]

Steve Harvey's really good at hosting. Steve Harvey's great. Like, if any. You know, he's getting older. If he retires, I think you should.

[A]

When is it enough money? That's. That's really the question. Like. Like Seacrest. I go, Seacrest. When is it enough? Why do you. And now Seacrest. Did you see? He's, like, complaining about dating. Do you know? Right. To make. This is the modern dating show. Ryan Seacrest is claiming he's on Tinder and he's talking about, like, his red flags.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And you're like, seacrest, what deal do you have with the match group? What? Who's paying you to do your. Because. Because when the bachelor got. The bachelorette got canceled, I was like, seacrest is in the dating game. Bring on all his matches from Tinder. Go through his phone, get a casting director. Contact all his matches. If he's supposedly on it, put him in the house. He's camera ready. He's got the makeup on.

[B]

He does. He said when his red flags.

[A]

When you're out on a run or

[B]

a walk or a bike ride, do you say hi to people that pass?

[A]

If you don't, I'm not sure about you. Oh, that's his red flag. Do you say hi to people? This is how removed.

[B]

He's saying hi to people on his walks.

[A]

Morning. Morning. Morning. Well, if we wrap this back like, this is a modern day.

[B]

That's someone who's desperate to be recognized.

[A]

Also. Also right. Wearing a name tag that says Ryan Seacrest on it. I also, if it's not even like a. It's a fraudulent dating take for you to be on a walk with someone and you're close enough to, like, go on some sort of date that includes you two going for a coffee together on a walk. You're not a first date going, hi, hi, hi. That would be crazy.

[B]

That's insane.

[A]

So you would have to be months in and then consider it a red flag that they don't say hi to people on the walk. You're like, no one would Ryan Seacrest. Right.

[B]

Who's, like, pretty famous.

[A]

Right? But I'm just saying, like, no one would end a relationship at that point.

[B]

That doesn't make any sense.

[A]

If you're at the other point, why

[B]

don't you come on here?

[A]

He won't. It's a lie. That's the point. Like, yeah, he's not on Tinder. And if he is, it's a deal with Tinder so that he can keep talking about it. There's some sort of, like, under the table payment going on. And it shows you how fraudulent all this dating talk is. This was a headline on page six for a while.

[B]

There's another one. I really look forward to getting up

[A]

and having my coffee.

[B]

I think if we can't share that

[A]

moment together, it's a red flag. So I need coffee is a green flag.

[B]

Don't have a lot. And please don't put milks and stuff in it.

[A]

Can you imagine milk and stuff in it if there was a woman out there who made a TikTok. Story time. Story time. I dated Ryan Seacrest, and he ended it. When I put it chabadi creamer into my coffee, you'd be like, this guy's a crazy monster. That's a crazy person. Like, so everything he's saying right there. I like to have coffee with a woman in the morning. Yeah. That's the end of your story. You know, cream in it. You're not ending it over cream. That's crazy.

[B]

It also sounds like he, like, put into chachi bt, like. So there was some AI version of, like, cheeky.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Cheeky dating. Right. Comment.

[A]

Right. Well, I love.

[B]

I love coffee. And if you don't like pizza, you're not for me.

[A]

Right. That's exactly. That is exactly what's going on here. But then I. My brain starts going, how much money does Ryan Seacrest have? Like, need.

[B]

That's the thing. It's a lifestyle.

[A]

Well, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, Ryan Seacrest, you know, a woman has to be really into a guy who loves money. That's what he would have to say. You have to love that. I. I love money more than people.

[B]

Yes. That I'm willing to do anything for a dollar.

[A]

Literally anything. I'm willing to fake like I'm on Tinder.

[B]

And if you don't. And if you don't like money as much as I do, that's a red flag.

[A]

You're out.

[B]

I would. I would be like. I would swipe right on that person because they'd be, like, funnily honest. They'd be funny and honest.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. And there. There's a little bit of, like, you know, there's a little bit of, like, I'm. Yeah. Self deprecation. I'm a big money hungry. That's crazy person.

[B]

Nothing wrong with that. Back to the self awareness stance. As long as you own it.

[A]

Ryan Seacrest is either spending so much money a month that he has, like, the biggest nut that has ever need to be covered, or he grew up in such weird money circumstances that he is, like, a cheap guy who, like, hoards money, like, because money is very psychological. My opinion is that Ryan Seacrest has a psychological issue with money.

[B]

All right, you heard it here, Ryan.

[A]

If you're listening, you're more than welcome to come on the show, Ryan, and speak like a normal human being and not like an AI bot to talk about this, because this is. I. I've seen those quotes before, and it drives me crazy. Because you're like, he also had every job in the world like he was. He took over. He took over the top 10 on Sundays. The radio show was.

[B]

Well, he's a professional host. Right. That's just his job.

[A]

Right. Listen. And he's really good at it. Let me, like, not to, like, trash him for an hour. He's really good at the job. Like him on American Idol.

[B]

And he's good for Wheel of Fortune because he doesn't read, like, well, he couldn't host Jeopardy.

[A]

Don't get me started on Ripa and Consuelos. Their quotes are even weirder.

[B]

I think you're the only person who's still watching all this, like, morning tv.

[A]

No, I do my podcast. If people want another podcast, listen to every Thursday. I do Pop Culture Thursday, and I go to Page Six, and I just, like, find headlines that get me angry.

[B]

So you see all the.

[A]

I haven't.

[B]

Because I'm like, I haven't seen anything about any of these people.

[A]

I know. And this is the thing. Ryan Seacrest and Kelly Ripa are, like, very big Page Six people.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

There are these things. If you read Page Six enough, if you go through the headlines, there are people they, like, love to zone in on.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Ripa has a quote once a week that is, like, the most fraudulent quote you've ever heard. But she's like, in the pocket of Page Six. Page Six is in her pocket. Like, they promote each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, she'll have a quote. It was something like she. When her son said he wanted to be an actor, she was horrified. And it's like. Horrified. You were horrified to gift him your agent that was gonna find him any job he wanted. Like, whoa, what scary circumstance. This wasn't like the son of a. You know, the son of a. Middle management lawyer.

[B]

Yeah. You know, break into the industry.

[A]

Right. That doesn't have any savings to go do it. It's, you know. Right. Son of. I mean, dual In. Dual actors.

[B]

But I mean, these people who are hosts. Hosts are sort of like, live on. In sound bites. They're not having, like, deep conversations. They're very like, sort of like, again, like, makes sense that she'd be good at getting those Page Six things. That's like a headline.

[A]

Right. I mean, it's not like a.

[B]

Like, if you really dug into that, just like you just did, she would be awful at it.

[A]

Well, that's why I'd be an awful host myself. So let's do. I mean, as. As we. As we vamp hosting this show.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We have some emails to take care of. It's great to be in studio. We love doing this show. If you're watching on YouTube, subscribe. If you have a friend who's going through any of the issues we're talking about today, we don't, you know, we want you to share the show, but this show is to give you kind of like ammo for your group chat. If someone's talking about something similar to what we're talking about today or it's going to spur a conversation, we want you to, like, send this link to this episode to the group chat. I'm on the road. If you're listening right now or watching, I'm going to be in la, Los Angeles. We want to sell out this show. It's part of the Netflix as a joke festival. I'm also gonna be in West Hampton. I'm coming to the Hamptons. Coming to my house with Jordana and we'll see.

[B]

Oh, you're staying?

[A]

I'm staying.

[B]

I preserve.

[A]

Okay. The room is reserved.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. I'm going to Vegas this weekend. I'm in Vegas. Jacksonville. I got Austin, Texas. Cleveland, Ohio, Doral. I'm going to be in Miami. Mashantucket. I'm going to be a Foxwoods, Portland, Maine. And I got a book. I got a lot to promote. I'm sorry.

[B]

I got a lot of going on.

[A]

I got a lot of going on.

[B]

You also have a lifestyle to keep up.

[A]

I do. Listen, we're not Ryan secrets. Yeah, I'm hustling. You know, it's a big year for me. It is. And if it doesn't, you know, it's

[B]

the year all your dreams come true.

[A]

After this year, I don't know what I could do at this point. So not to depress everyone into buying my book. Just buy the book.

[B]

Really needs this.

[A]

I need this year.

[B]

What do you make, like a dollar on every book?

[A]

I know. I don't even. I gotta pay back.

[B]

You gotta get your advance back, right?

[A]

I spent already. It's all in my house. I got a place in Del Rey. You'll see.

[B]

Yeah, someone needs. We guys, we need to maintain the pool cabana. You guys need to buy those books. Are you still doing your videos?

[A]

I'll still do them. Some. Some have gone. They've all been wonderful. I gotta say. Like, so. Yeah. If you pre order the book for a friend. So the deal was if you pre order it for a friend, I'll make a video for the friend. Just give me the name. You. Sometimes the handles are like, you know, like ass liquor 69. And I'm like, okay, can you, can you give me your name? Like, I'm looking to like, you know, streamline this process. Like, I'm happy to do it, believe me, but sometimes I have to be like, your name, you know, so they're like, so give me your name, the person you want.

[B]

Now, you're, you're an admin, right? Yeah.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

You're. You're your own admin, right?

[A]

I'm the secretary. There's no team. Okay. So sometimes people and, and send me the receipt of the book you purchase. Also audiobook, you can pre order. Kindle, you can pre order, and hard copy, you can pre order. So like, all those help me get on the New York Times bestseller list, which is the goal here. But if you send it to me, sometimes people will just send me a receipt that they got the book for themselves.

[B]

Okay? So like, they want their own.

[A]

I, I guess I'm like, I guess they either didn't listen or just want their own video.

[B]

So I'm like, I originally thought that was what.

[A]

You're right. This was a, this, this was all a grift to get you to buy two books.

[B]

Oh, okay. It wasn't clear to me if I'm

[A]

to admit my thought process. Oh, I'll get it for a friend and then the video will be made.

[B]

I'll buy one. Buy one.

[A]

Buy. Right. So as you say, I will say if you send me any receipt, I'll. And give me the fact that you want me to. What you want me to say I'll. I'll send you a cameo.

[B]

Okay, I'm not gonna make you give me a cameo. I pre ordered the book, but I'm not. I'm not.

[A]

Have you read it yet?

[B]

No, I haven't. I don't have it. Oh, I'm gonna take it home today. Where is it?

[A]

It's right back.

[B]

All right, I'm gonna take it.

[A]

Red flag.

[B]

I'm gonna, I'm gonna read it on my, on my non vacation vacation.

[A]

Listen. Yes. Give it to your great summer read.

[B]

I will give it to my.

[A]

It is a good summer read. I've read it. The audiobook is fun.

[B]

I'll give it to my mom and then we'll, we can, we can call

[A]

her for her review and she's in the dating game.

[B]

She's married.

[A]

Oh, excuse me.

[B]

That's okay. She's been married for like eight years. It's hard to keep track. She married a lot, but this one's been around a while.

[A]

What are we talking about? Today. I've never heard of him.

[B]

Ken.

[A]

Ken.

[B]

My stepdad Ken.

[A]

Stepdad Ken.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

SDK.

[B]

SDK.

[A]

Stepdad Ken.

[B]

Step. Yeah. My stepdad Ken. I think stepdad's one word. It's okay. I will work on my sk. SK Yes.

[A]

I can't wait to meet Ken Papa,

[B]

as I call him. No, I don't.

[A]

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[A]

What are we doing?

[B]

All right, I will read our first email Hi J and J. I have a dating dilemma I'd love your take on. That's why we're here. Place to send it to I'm 27 female and have gone on about six dates with with a 27 year old male I I met on Hinge. From the start we had a great banter, a lot in common, and I genuinely thought it was headed somewhere for context. I've had about five relationships in my life, including my most recent ex who I lived with. Dating hasn't always been easy for me. I've been cheated on and I was previously in an abusive relationship. This guy, on the other hand, has never been in a relationship. I don't hold that against him, but it does feel relevant. Over the last two weeks I noticed a shift. He stopped making much effort to hang out, pulled back on being romantic, and even seemed hesitant with basic affection, like kissing. I finally brought it up thinking he was going to say he lost interest and no longer wants to see me. No one has ever said phrased it like that.

[A]

I've lost interest, right?

[B]

And I no longer want to see you.

[A]

That's the reason ghosting exists.

[B]

Yes. Instead he told me he prefers to get to know girls platonically first and then see where things go romantically. I'll admit it, I didn't respond perfectly. I am paraphrasing of of course this was an hour long conversation. I said that's not really how dating apps work and asked how that approach has worked out for him so far given he's never been in a relationship.

[A]

Sounds like a sounds like a fun question to be asked. Then I clarify that going for you being that you've never had a relationship.

[B]

Sounds great.

[A]

Yeah, it's been going badly I guess.

[B]

Then I clarified we're both 27 and single, so clearly neither of us has it all figured out. But if he wants to pursue me romantically, then actually do it. And if he Just wants to be friends. I'm not unhinged for that. So we should part ways. So my question is, is there any way to prevent this from happening again? Or do some guys genuinely approach apps like Hinge looking for friends first? I know you'll probably say 27 is still young, but this one really frustrated me because it felt like it was going somewhere. And now I feel like I got friend zoned with the vague promise of something more down the line. A who dumped her situation.

[A]

I'm not gonna tell her that 27 is too young.

[B]

Nothing wrong with dating seriously at 27.

[A]

Nothing wrong with dating seriously at whatever age you want to do it. The 27 of it all doesn't really speak to me. What spoke to you?

[B]

Do you think it's the 27 of. Of him being. Him being 27 speaks to any of it or not?

[A]

No, I just. I. I think she's. She's kind of like, what's your take?

[B]

Is that. Is the. What's the man doing here that she's dating?

[A]

I think he's looking for safety in the same way she's looking for safety she wants. And I'm sorry for the dating stuff that she's gone through, which is, you know, ranges from being cheated on, being cheated on, to abusive, relate. These are all horrible things that no one should have to go through. But I. I would say that she is. She and him are, like, honest. Like, the whole friend thing. Don't even listen to that.

[B]

I agree. The friend thing is like an annoying thing to.

[A]

That's him trying to communicate something. He doesn't know how to communicate.

[B]

Right. What is he trying to communicate?

[A]

He's trying to communicate. I don't want to get in trouble for leading you on, so I need to slow this down, as slow as I can go to decide whether it is safe for me to go further. And she's saying I. And. And again, she's as. Let's. I think they're both the same. Like, they're both two sides of the coin.

[B]

The opposite.

[A]

Right. Like, she's saying, been in these relationships that were hard and difficult and had, you know, gave me trauma. So I need to make sure that, like, I need you to, like, give me commitment and make some promises so that I can feel safe, and they are just not a match in that way. I think. I think that version of what. What level of safety we can handle is how you find your match. And it's something that, like, people call timing. I don't. I don't think it's as much timing as it is. Okay. This is my version of safe, and your version of safe fits with mine.

[B]

So his version, when you're saying safe for him, you're saying that he wants to feel safe, that he's not gonna hurt her.

[A]

Safe. He's not gonna hurt her. I guess that's an emp. That's a heroic way of looking at him. There's a not heroic way of looking at him, which is like, I want to feel safe that I'm not a piece of when I leave you, because I'm not really into this.

[B]

Well, that's sort of like the. Yeah, they're saying the same thing.

[A]

Right. There's two ways to look at it.

[B]

Right. But I think that's kind of nice

[A]

in some ways in that. But she's like, he's not kissing or being affectionate. And he says this friend thing because it's the easy route he can go. Well, we're just friends, and it didn't work out, and I didn't see it going further. It's kind of like a step before a step.

[B]

Right. I mean, if he was very into her, do you think he would be doing this?

[A]

No, I. I don't think the. Anyone who says I'm on an app looking for friendship first is delusional and lying and.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not really.

[B]

Not true and.

[A]

And not really living in reality.

[B]

Like, why even keep speaking to her is my question.

[A]

If he's not, why would I? Well, because he doesn't know how to do it the other way. The other way to keep speaking to her is, hey, what's the plan this weekend? Oh, I can't hang out, but maybe late night tonight I can hang out. You know, like. And he feels. And again, everyone's affected by physical different. So maybe he feels like a huge liar for kissing someone while also dating other people or meeting other people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, everyone's level for that is different. Some people can have sex with multiple people and go, I'm just out there dating. It doesn't sound like he can do that. So he has, like, kind of invented this whole friendship angle.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because I. I don't think he's less of a liar than the guy who sleeps around. I think they're just doing it in different ways. And the guy who sleeps around is more destructive.

[B]

Well, I. Feels like he's being nicer than the guy who just sleeps.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

And I'm sure he's telling himself that, but it does feel that way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

An extent.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And now she you know what I mean? Like, because she can now move on from this. And she says, is there any way to prevent this from happening again? I don't. I mean, prevent someone from. And I think that's. I think that's a, That's a thing. I think women want a lot of control when it comes to dating. They want and safety. Feels like I'm gonna. If there's a rule, people. That's why people love dating rules. Like, if there's a rule, I can protect myself from getting hurt again.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or from being in a scenario where I like someone and then they're giving me, like, seem like they want to be my friend or something. And part of dating. That's why dating is a vulnerable thing, if you're doing it right, is like you're. There's a possibility that you're gonna go on a date or several dates with someone that doesn't want the same thing as you. And the only way to really find that out is to do it. There's really no shortcuts around it. And just being honest, as honest as you can, as early as you can, saves you the most time.

[A]

Yeah. I knew where she. I knew where her problem was gonna be from the first paragraph. I genuinely thought it was heading somewhere. She wrote that to me. All do. Right. Like that to me. I think she needs to get out of that. Like, I. Heading somewhere. I, I, you know, journey, destination would be like the thing. Like, I think a lot of guys are about the journey and a lot of women are about the destination, definitely. So I think there's gotta be a mix of both. You know, if you're destination heavy, you're kind of seen as the hero. I want to get married. Wow. That's a really nice thing.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Well, that's a lot of women along the way. Until I realize who I want to marry is not as likable.

[B]

I would agree with that.

[A]

So. But I do think they, you know, I do think you need a little journey in your destination.

[B]

I agree. So it's hard, right? It's harder to have that mindset for women.

[A]

But totally, totally different. You have to keep both in mind. He is keeping the destination in mind and protecting his journey.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So he's going, because I've been on dates and I'll try to have fun. Right. And he's trying to have fun. And I. I've been on dates where I'm girl likes me. I. I can tell she sees the.

[B]

She thinks it's heading somewhere.

[A]

She. Right. She is. She. I See her mind. I see the dream. I see the. I see the me meeting the eye. I can see the little twinkle. And then I'm like, whoa, easy there, big fella. You got to. I take the reins and I get a little weird. I get a little.

[B]

Now that you're an older person, you probably think that more, right? Or would you act the same way when you were younger? Or would you just kind of go, Go along for the journey?

[A]

Same way, different language.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is a young guy. This is a guy who's 27 who's like, I like to be friends first. Yeah, that's right. So, like the idea. So I, I.

[B]

What do you, what would you do when you saw the twinkle in her eye?

[A]

I mean, you got, you gotta slow it down. Find whatever way you can to, like, put the brakes on this hit. You know, pump on the gas, pump on the brake.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's what he, that's why the friend thing, like, when she. Anytime you're going into. Do guys really think, how do I get ahead of this? You're never gonna get a heart. Like, you're, you're gonna find. People just know that if you are thinking very globally and destination wise guys can feel that. I think for her, if you want to get ahead of this is like, let's get smaller.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, you know, what do you want out of a first date? What kind of first date do you want? What kind of second date do you want? What kind of physical, you know?

[B]

Well, they've gone on six dates. Right?

[A]

Right. Six days. What kind of promises do you want made to you to go on a

[B]

seventh date or what kind of act? What kind of action do you want to see going into a seventh date?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Is the action. Stop making as much effort to hang out. Pull back on being romantic and not kissing you.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. So I think, like, you, like. I think it goes back to your, you know what the advice you've always said, which is be turned off. Don't be, like, confused by this behavior. It's not about him wanting to be friends. It's about him doing stuff that's turning you off.

[A]

Right. And, And I think turned off, turned on turns into, like, very specific things. You did this. And I am turned off is different than. I could see this going somewhere. I could see this going somewhere is like, right. I'm looking for friends first. I got to make sure I connect on that level. So now he's protecting, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

His, his. His brand, so to speak.

[B]

Yes. And I'm sure she said, I brought it up thinking he was going to say he lost interest. That's again, waiting to hear his response. And what she should say when she brought it up, I'm sure she didn't say it like this, but she should say it the way that you would suggest, which is now, you know, it feels like you're. You're not making as much of an effort to hang out. That's kind of turning me off.

[A]

Right. Make that an I thing like, right. Yeah. Word to the wise.

[B]

Because she wants him to cut her off.

[A]

Right. On you will you forever. Right.

[B]

Right. Because she wants her. She wants him to cut her head off. That's why she would love it if the preferred. The preferred reaction would be if she said, it feels like you're making less of an effort to hang out. And he said, I'm sorry, I'm dating someone. We can't. I don't feel like, you know, like the way that you had to do that.

[A]

Well, she even wrote she would love

[B]

that because, like, she would love the clarity of that and said she's. She. She would prefer he said, I've lost interest and I no longer want to see you.

[A]

She already had prepared herself for the most horrific thing any human could say,

[B]

like she was lost interest and I no longer want to see you.

[A]

Right. No one has really ever said that in the history of dating other than on love on the spectrum.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So like, so unless you want to go on that show, which good for you, that's okay.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I don't think you're gonna get that unless you start living in I terms.

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

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[A]

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[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Ready? Uupatches.com Icky or picky means you date someone, you get the ick. Is it a valid ick or are you being picky? I like this one.

[B]

It is a good one. Very niche dating question.

[A]

This is like a perfect icky or picky. J and J. Huge fan. I'll get right into it. I'm a 41 year old female living in Lake Tahoe. Dating on Hinge. You ever been to Lake Tahoe? You have?

[B]

My bachelorette. I had my bachelorette in Lake Tahoe. It was wonderful.

[A]

Very big difference between Lake Tahoe and Reno. Yes, I've been to. I've been to Reno.

[B]

Blown into Reno. A lot of slot machines.

[A]

Yeah. You fly in Reno, Will you fly in Reno to go to Lake Tahoe? Different vibe worlds. Dating on Hinge and I keep running into the same issue. On first dates a plan is made to meet at a bar restaurant. But when the time to meet comes, there is no I'm on my way. I'm here or grabbed a table with zero indication of where they are inside this restaurant or bar. I end up walking in and scanning the room, usually dim, trying to find a man I've never seen in real life. I always end up texting first to let them know I've arrived and asking if they'd like me to grab a table. And there's typically a reply letting me know they're already inside. Location apparently not important in their mind. The latest example was last night. Guy confirmed our date at 6am but by 6.30pm daytime I'd heard nothing else. No, I'm on my way. No, I've arrived. Nothing. I wait in my car until 6:35 to text him that I've arrived and I get a reply that he's there waiting for me. Location not shared. Is it fair to expect a man to communicate that he's arrived to the date and share where he is when meeting a stranger? Is this me being picky? And most importantly, which one of us is the red flag if there is one in this scenario? I would absolutely love your take. Signed. Waiting my whole life for a man to be helpful.

[B]

Well, that's a fun sign off for any,

[A]

right?

[B]

She's going in with a good attitude.

[A]

Loving the dating life in Tahoe. What do you think?

[B]

You know it's funny, I was like a little torn on this one because part of me is like it's okay to have some agency and you text but I mean first date is all about judging everything everyone's doing right.

[A]

You have a right.

[B]

Yeah, I do think it's a little weird. Here's. I'm trying to. Here's the thing, if I'm being totally honest, I haven't been on a date in a very long time. But I do think it'd be nice if someone said, I'm here, I'm at the bar, blah, blah, blah. It's almost like when someone comes up to you and like, as if you already know them and they don't explain how they know you from somewhere.

[A]

Right. There is.

[B]

You're like a nice. A way of helping someone out. That's right. That is thoughtful and might be indicative of a more thoughtful person.

[A]

The theme of today is safety. You know, she's a little bit like, I don't want to walk into a dark bar and not know what I'm getting into.

[B]

Right. Safety and even just like awkwardness. Like I've. I remember doing that and being like. I just don't want to be like, like, like turning my head. Like, you know, I mean like, like looking, staring at strangers weirdly trying to figure out if it's you or not from like your hinge profile.

[A]

Right. No, I, I, you know, this has a point. I'm not gonna sit here and call this person a crazy person because it's very easy, I think, to like, be like, you're on a date. Stop being such a.

[B]

Or she, I mean, she could, she could what I would normally is like, she could text you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Let me know where you're sitting or something. That's an easy kind of solve. It sounds like no one's not answering that, but I agree, it does. It is a little indicative of something.

[A]

I do think she's connecting a little bit like the, the lack of like, hey, excited to see you tonight. Oh, it'll be fun to meet. I've picked a place. She's lacking a little bit of color to the text she's getting. This feels very. For whatever reason, in my mind's eye, like Arizona. Like, even the way she described the bar. Just like can see the bar. Like a lot of wood paneling and right. Like a. Maybe like late in the day, the sun's coming down, but it's like shining really bright and it's coming through the windows. And I just kind of see this like, lonely bar in the, you know, in the Southwest.

[B]

You want someone to like, help you facilitate a non awkwardness of an awkward of a situation that's inherently awkward. Anyway. Meeting a stranger off the Internet is an Awkward feeling.

[A]

Well, yeah, I, I understand that too. I do think that, like, for. I got an email on J Train about a guy complaining that women. Is it him or are all women late to dates? And I, in the non accusatory way, I agree with him that it seemed as though every date I went on, a lot of women wanted to make this five to 10 minute late entrance, not 30. It was always like, hey. And. And women would warn you, they'd be like, hey, just running a little behind, you know, I'm coming in. And it felt like it was like kind of like a rom comi. Like entrance they were trying to make. And. And also they have other things, you

[B]

know, it takes us longer to get ready.

[A]

That's like the, the. Of course, that's the excuse that, like, no one can deny, right? You know, that you go, okay. But it did feel like it was part of this grand plan of, like, let me walk in. And I do think a lot of men like the structural. The, the, the getting the bullet points done. Like the Mr. Fix it, where it's like, I have found the seat. I am in it. I am on time. I can't be blamed for this. I have done this correctly and right. I am in the spot where we will have the drink. Like, it's very like, for that to get there. I like to get there first because I like to sit and like, be comfortable in the seat and not be sweating, like, looking for a table.

[B]

Right. Use the bathroom.

[A]

Right. You know, I can be on my phone. I can like, just melt for a second. Yeah. So I was always okay with the dynamic of woman shows. 10 to 15 minutes after the date plan, which was fine. Like, I always thought it was fine, but I thought it was interesting that it did feel like all women engaged in this practice. So. But maybe it was also because I didn't tell him or tell her where I was in the bar. You know, like, now I'm hearing this, I'm like, this kind of plays into it.

[B]

Do you always, when you get there first, do you always text, hey, I'm here at this spot.

[A]

I've. I've done. I tried thinking. I was like, what's my move? I've done all versions. I'm sure there's a woman who's like, Jared has done. Just said, I'm at the bar.

[B]

Right. Or not even said anything, and.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, you're like, you should know what I look like. I'm a celeb.

[A]

Check out the Instagram handle. I've also done the thing where it's like, I. The text I know I've sent in the past is like, I'm at the bar. I'm the guy who's looking at his phone. Like, I, like, that's funny. Kind of like make a little joke like that. So I've done all versions.

[B]

Yeah. I don't. That's why I don't think it's a deal breaker. I could see how someone would not.

[A]

Is it a proper ick? Because I, I think to me, it's picky because if everything else went wonderfully, if you were like, excited about the date, I don't think. Not letting you know where, like, if you break this down, like, I think she was not excited for the date because there's a lack of communication and a lack of excitement coming from their end over the text chain. 6:00am hey, I'll see you tonight at 6:30. Is a little bit like, there's a. There's not as much romanticism to that. So I'm like, right, if you break this.

[B]

But also, like, how much. How excited can you be for a date with someone you've never met before? I agree with the other hard part.

[A]

If it's someone that you've met, like, there's. There's a. There's a group of people out there that would say that, like, we just want to get to the date. Like, I just want to get on the date. And you go, well, if you met on an app, it's like half a date on the app. You're doing a little bit of texting yourself. There's some sort of banter that should be there to make you excited to go on the date.

[B]

Right.

[A]

If there's none of that, you didn't really do the due diligence of what the app allows you to do.

[B]

Just have a little back and forth.

[A]

Right. And to have you to go on a date with no excitement, it's either going to be a setup that someone likes is pushing you to go on, or you shouldn't go on the date at all.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

I know the apps are not exciting, but that's why you have the app. That's why you can meet a lot of people. Is that, like, you can sit there and go, I. You can throw a lot of fish back in the sea.

[B]

Right. It's funny. I feel like I'm going on. Now that I'm in the suburbs, I feel like I'm going on, like, friendship dates.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I met someone for dinner the other. The other day and I Was feeling like I. I had met her once before and we met like almost a year ago. And then, you know, like just busy and plans happen. And then I like had plans to see her for dinner and I was like, I don't really remember what she looks like. Like, am I gonna be able to find her? It's like, been a while.

[A]

Welcome to my world.

[B]

We don't follow each other on social media. I was like. And it is. You know what I mean? I. I did. I would appreciate if she said I'm. I mean, maybe on the second meeting. It would be like insulting to say like this, but it had been a while.

[A]

I mean, but you could send a text. Hey, and if you don't remember I'm wearing this.

[B]

Right? I could have. That's what I'm saying.

[A]

Let me, let me do the thing. Let me do the thing. I think about you. But I'll say that you think about me.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That's the move.

[B]

Yeah, that is the move. Because that's self deprecating, right? A little bit.

[A]

And if you don't remember me, because who would remember me? I'm a big loser. No, I'm who? I'm unmemorable. Me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you could just. I'll be in my, you know, brown pants. Those brown.

[B]

I don't know, they're like rust colored or something.

[A]

I'd say rust, like orangey brown.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, it's like a fence that had been ran.

[B]

An old rusty fence. Yes. Old rusty fence pants color.

[A]

I'm in my old Rusties. Yes and no. So I was wondering as an icky or picky. I think she's being picky.

[B]

I think if you can note it or. Here's the thing. I think you could be turned on by someone saying I'm over here in this specific way, like the way she wants it. But I don't know. I agree. It's picky to be like turned off. Like it really affects your feeling about them.

[A]

Well, because I made a list and you tell me what's better or worse than someone not telling you where they are in the bar.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. So it's either this or someone who doesn't direct you to where they are in the restaurant that they have told you to be at.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And they are there on time.

[B]

Time.

[A]

They don't look like they're pictures. Better or worse?

[B]

Worse.

[A]

Met you outside, but they had no reservation and they had to find another place last second.

[B]

Worse. I've had that happen. It's the Worst.

[A]

Met you outside but realized it was closed.

[B]

Worse.

[A]

Wore their gym clothes.

[B]

Is it a lunch date?

[A]

It's no six o' clock posts.

[B]

No. Worse.

[A]

Their mom dropped them off. Or much worse, didn't make the plan and then complains about the place.

[B]

Worse.

[A]

So, like, yeah, all those things are ways to start a day.

[B]

It's all relative. Right?

[A]

Right. Like all those ways. I just found six ways to start a date that are way worse than.

[B]

Or, hey, was 20 minutes late.

[A]

20 minutes late is crazy.

[B]

That's worse too.

[A]

Way worse.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. If you're, if you're getting like. I think if she's getting that worked up over this thing, I agree it could be. It would be nice if it was different. But I think if she's getting that worked up, she might be a little burnt out.

[A]

I think she's a little burnt out because she's not even choosing to be the person she wants to be with. That's when you know you're burnt out. Like, if she. All you have to do is be so positive that the other person has

[B]

to be and feels weird that they're not right. If they're not as positive.

[A]

Like if she was like that day. Hey, really looking forward to tonight. Just let me know where you are in the bar so I can find you. I, I, you know, let me know

[B]

when you get there.

[A]

Never met. Let me know when you get there. I'll be coming from this. I might be about five minutes late.

[B]

I'm wearing this.

[A]

If you're the one doing that. It's like dealing with a toddler. Like, if someone is like, crying, I'm like, come on. If you laugh at them, if you are so excitable and I'm asking people to like, to like, fake it a little bit. You kind of smoke out the people that are not that great.

[B]

If you value a lot of communication predate. You should be more communicative.

[A]

Right. Because you'll get them to, yes, be who they are. Which might not be communicative.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

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[B]

Girl. Winter is so last season and now spring's got you looking at pictures of tank tops with hungry eyes. Your algorithm is feeding you cutoffs. You're thirsty for the sun on your shoulders. That perfect hang on the patio sundress those sandals you can wear all day and all night. And you've had enough of shopping from your couch. Done. Hoping it looks anything like the picture when you tear open that envelope. It's time for a little in person spring treat. It's time for a trip to Ross. Work your magic. All right, let's do another email.

[A]

I'll read it uup betches.com keep sending your emails. We love specificity.

[B]

We do. This one's pretty specific. All right J and J. Longtime listener and all the feathers. Coming to you with a situation I know is my own overthinking but would love your thoughts. My boyfriend and I have been together almost four years, lived together for two and a half and have an amazing relationship. I'm really proud of the life we've built. Engagement was never an if but a when. We were friends turned hookup buddies before dating and once we became official it always felt end game. Last fall he initiated ring shopping which I was so excited about. I picked a few styles and left the rest to him because I wanted it to be a surprise. I fast forward to now. Mid March, about five and a half months later and no proposal yet. I just turned 28. He will be soon. And he planned an incredible birthday weekend. Cute bnb, dinner, reservations, the works. I fully convinced myself this was the moment. My friends all said the same he has to be proposing, right? Wrong. He walked along the water before dinner and I was so sure it was happening. He walked along the water with her before dinner and didn't propose. This guy is a monster.

[A]

Well

[B]

that is crazy. The only time Mike has ever suggested a walk along the water was when he proposed.

[A]

That's hilarious.

[B]

I will say.

[A]

Yeah. I walk along. No water.

[B]

He walks along.

[A]

I would never walk along water.

[B]

You're making a plan.

[A]

Ever.

[B]

No man should ever make a plan and not propose.

[A]

If there's no ring, no water, walks. No water.

[B]

We walk along the street.

[A]

Yeah. No. We stay the sidewalks. We stay. We stay away from rivers. We stay away from seas. We stay away from law lakes. You should ponds. Do not go near any of those dams.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Don't walk near a dam.

[B]

What is that? Garden in the city. Madison Square. It's not Madison Square Park. It's like the Irving by Irving.

[A]

Like it's called Engagement Way.

[B]

Yes it is. What is the it kind of it's like, a little. You need a key to it.

[A]

Oh, it's Madison.

[B]

Is it grammar? Yeah. Yeah. If you. If he has a key to Gramercy park, you're getting engaged, right?

[A]

You or he's weird.

[B]

Like, who would ever. If you found a key to Gramercy park, that's the engagement.

[A]

So a walk along a body of water after you've looked at rings together.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

It's not just any walk along a body of water. Like, you can't. If someone was to, like, come back at you. Like, wait, you thought that walk along the water was to get engaged? Like, that would be a version of gaslighting that, like.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So wrong. We walked along the water before dinner, and I was so sure it was happening. When it didn't, I felt disappointed and, honestly, a little dumb. It was still such a thoughtful trip. But am I crazy for feeling a little sad and annoyed? Like, it. That it felt like engagement blue balls? I would agree with that. I know I built this up myself, so I really can't blame him. But this phase, being in a stable, loving relationship, knowing an engagement is coming but not when, feels like torture for context. I'm not in a rush to get married, and I love our life as is. I try to follow Dr. Naomi's advice about not being in a seeking mindset, but the lack of control over such a big moment, plus the awareness that people might be thinking they're not engaged yet, is putting me in my head. Jordana, did you drive yourself crazy with theories before Mike proposed? How do you enjoy this phase while knowing the next is coming? And can I express my disappointment without making him feel like he did something wrong or seeming ungrateful? Thanks for all you two do. Romantic getaway blue balls.

[A]

Well, I find so much wrong with her email. Okay. Like, her whole perspective to me is like. Like, Like, I. She's. And she's so worried about doing everyone's feelings but her own.

[B]

Right? Well, that was. That. What stood out to me. It's like, you don't want to be surprised, right?

[A]

Well, that.

[B]

Here's the thing. Like, I think that's, like, the big farce about engagement is, like, you. The idea that it's going to be so surprising. It shouldn't be that surprising. You should have had many talks about getting engaged, right? And you should have a general sense of when it's happening. You're. This is, like, 2026. Like, this isn't, like, a man choosing you from, like, a Field and you get to, you know, be his property. Like, this is like a two way conversation. Engagement is a big deal.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I think the element of surprise is very overrated. And she doesn't like it. That's what she has to stop saying. She doesn't really want to be surprised.

[A]

Right. I. That was my. One of my takeaways was like, I totally agree. Like, she's so. Some of these things, societal things, think you want to be is so ingrained into the culture that like she thinks she has to be surprised.

[B]

Right. She can be romantic, I guess.

[A]

Right. And you could be all levels of surprised, you know, like the surprise can be how he does it. The ring, the ring and maybe the day of the week. Like, but knowing it's coming that month.

[B]

Month. Right.

[A]

And he now letting him do it, it can be special still.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I felt the same. I mean, like you were you. Yeah.

[A]

You were sweating. Sweating it.

[B]

Yeah, I was. Well, because we were. I think we had talked about getting engaged in the spring.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Of whatever year it was. And then it didn't happen. And I was like. And I said to him, I'm like, what's going on? Did you change your mind?

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

I mean, it was Covid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he was, you know, he liked. Here's. Because if I really wanted to, if I really wanted to be surprised, I wouldn't have said anything and I would have just been like annoyed and done whatever. But I. I cared more about knowing a general timeline than I did about being surprised. And that's just me. Some people like surprises. Some people are less anxious. That's who you are. We have to stop pretending like we don't care. We care.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so I think to go back to him and say, listen, I know I said I wanted it to be a surprise and I do, but I need a general sense of timing because I actually kind of thought I was going to be on this trip when you asked me to walk along the water and planned the entire trip. Shocking. And I don't think any man, again, a man could say you were crazy for thinking that is gaslighting you.

[A]

Well, that's, I guess my job here. Having never been engaged and never been married and never gone through this. I've never looked for rings. But I will say, here's my job. I put myself in the shoes of his shoes. If I had gone ring shopping with someone and then five months later still had not been engaged and planned a trip, and then planned a trip and walked along the Water with them. Any body of water. Whether it be lake, pond, sea or dam.

[B]

Anything. Pool.

[A]

It would be pool or pool. Koi pond.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Pool.

[B]

Goldfish tank.

[A]

Goldfish tank. A bath filled bathtub or empty.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm staying away from all those. It would be on my mind too. So it would be something that I would be thinking about. So this is me giving her permission. Something is on his mind. I don't know what it is. And. And not to scare her. It ranges from I don't know if I want to marry this woman to the ring I want isn't something I can afford right now and I'm pushing this off until I have the savings

[B]

or something as innocent as I thought it would be. Ready. It wasn't ready.

[A]

There's like a billion possibilities. But let me just promise her one exists.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't know what that one is. It could be the worst thing that could ever happen to you.

[B]

You.

[A]

Or it could be the biggest relief of your life.

[B]

It.

[A]

But I'm saying to her based on this email. And listen, I'm not. That's why I like doing this show. Because it's all based on the email. The way she worded it. If I went shopping for rings with someone every month that goes by after that ring shopping event, the pressure is added more and more. And there's a reason he initiated the happening. He initiated or not sure. Because he is a human on earth who has the ability to say no to that trip. He didn't. Did he go ring shopping with you? Even though he initiated it because he knew you wanted it because he could feel it from you and the pressure of that made him go, I don't know if I could ever get married to this person. That might be it. I don't mean to like frighten her.

[B]

Okay. I don't want to scare you. But it could be the worst case scenario.

[A]

Right. But I. I don't know what it is. I don't. I. It would be.

[B]

Why would he plan this trip though?

[A]

It'd be weird. That would be weird. But it is weird. She's like, I don't want him to feel bad. How about you're doing a weird thing to me?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's different than he can feel. However he feels from that. You have done a weird thing to me. If I went on a trip with someone after going ring shopping, I would have proposed then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's how I would have operated. What happened? What's going on? Yeah. I don't think that she.

[B]

And that's A healthy relationship, I think to say, hey, remember when we went ring shopping a few months ago? I know I said I wanted it to be a surprise, but I'd like a general sense of when this is happening.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

You don't have to tell me the date and time and the place, but. But I need to know, like a

[A]

timeline or if there's something that's, like, on your mind that we need to discuss.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

There is something on his mind.

[B]

You think?

[A]

I know.

[B]

I need to know what it is.

[A]

I. I not think I know. That's why we are good at this show. Okay, I know this guy is up.

[B]

Please let us know. I am dying to know what it. What is it?

[A]

I've been him. I've had the one thing in my mind.

[B]

Why would you plan a walk along the water, though?

[A]

Maybe he was gonna get engaged right there and he decided to. Not for me. I don't know. There's on the water, but I'm just saying, like, we're not that far apart, right? Him, me, you, her, were all very similar. Okay, so what is it?

[B]

I need to know. Sorry.

[A]

I would love to know. I would love to hear him right into the show tell me. He could tell me. I didn't even think about it. That'd be weird too.

[B]

That would be weird too. That'd be a different red flag, right?

[A]

This guy's so not in tune with your emotions that he. Oh, I didn't even think about it. That's crazy. So you don't understand. This is my. This is my.

[B]

How long do you think a man should propose after he's looked at rings?

[A]

Oh, obviously not Jared with a girlfriend now.

[B]

Yeah, well, get.

[A]

Easy to answer this with no girlfriend.

[B]

Yeah, well, you know, get a lot of. Get a lot of women sending and saving. This.

[A]

This.

[B]

How many. How many months after you've looked at rings do you have to propose?

[A]

Six.

[B]

If there's no discussion around it.

[A]

Six months.

[B]

Six months.

[A]

I think you got six months. Okay, if I was to. You go together to a store.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You got to be pretty far along in that process. You can't be like, I don't know, six months within six months. Because I'm. I'm allowing for savings. Whether Talking to parents.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, these are all things getting.

[B]

If you're getting a ring made that takes.

[A]

Made all these things kind of work in six months. Seems appropriate.

[B]

It. Okay, you heard it here.

[A]

Men. That's right.

[B]

If it's been over six months and you've looked at those rings, you better Run.

[A]

You don't understand. I have this, like, curse that I feel everything. I know how right I am with this. Like, it is like.

[B]

I mean, it's only been five and a half years. It's been five and a half months for them, right?

[A]

He's almost there. My parents always like, you're so sensitive. You're so sensitive. And they make it into this ne. Negative thing. I'm like, no, no, I notice everything. I. I don't care, right? I don't care that there's something on this guy's mind.

[B]

You're not mad about it, but there's

[A]

something on this guy's mind. This is my superpower.

[B]

Gotta find out.

[A]

I had a woman come to me at the beach. She goes, my husband is a big fan of yours. And I go, my parents, my parents, my aunt, Uncle Emily. We're all there on the beach. We're all having a nice day, okay? This girl comes up. My husband is a huge fan of yours. Loves your comedy. I go, that's amazing. Thank you so much. She goes, I not. I don't really know your stuff, okay? But my husband is a big fan. And he ran away. He didn't want to say hello. But I. Well, I go. She goes, but I.

[B]

Who doesn't give. Who don't give a. I don't.

[A]

She goes, right? She goes, and I went to Penn State. And I don't even. I don't even remember you at Penn State. I have no memory of you. I was too busy getting drunk. I didn't know you at all. You. You don't. You didn't even exist to me at Penn State. Nobody but my husband likes your stuff. And I looked at her. I go, I guess you're gonna have to thank your husband for me. Don't take this. Thank you. This isn't for you. Thank him for being such a huge fan. That's such a nice thing. But you. I'm not thanking you. And I had this whole interaction in front of my whole family.

[B]

What did she say?

[A]

She was like, it was bizarre, right?

[B]

That all might be true. Which is fine. It's just weird that she would volunteer that information. It'd be one thing if you asked, do you listen to my stuff?

[A]

I would never do such a thing to myself. I would. I'm so protective of my own feelings. I don't want to be hurt. I. And also, she could have just said, hey, we're big fans. Nice to meet you. Hey, I went to Penn State, too. Nice to meet you. So crazy. We never Met. There's like a positive way to say everything she said.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She chose to say it in a horrific, I would say rude way.

[B]

Now we know why he's not hanging out with her at the beach.

[A]

Well, that's what. And why he didn't want to come say hello. She hates me.

[B]

No. So she walks away worse than she hates you. She has no idea who you are.

[A]

It was so weaponized. And I. She walks away.

[B]

I go, well, that's someone who's very self centered. She's just making the whole interaction about herself and she's coming up to you.

[A]

It was absolutely. And I hope she hears this. She doesn't know I should divorce her. Goodbye. She then walks away. My parents are like, jared is so sensitive. I go, I'm. I go, you didn't think that was a crazy interaction? They go, oh, you probably thought she was being mean. I go, I thought she was being rude. I thought it was like a crazy interaction. You guys are way off base. I go, why are you so. And I'm like, they go, you notice everything. I go, I don't think what just happened is unnoticeable. Like. And my aunt was like, yeah, that was weird.

[B]

How many people of your extended family are at the beach with you? And then my second cousin was like, I didn't think it was that bad. And then my middle school teacher was

[A]

like, I actually thought we invite any and all.

[B]

Yeah, your aunt.

[A]

Yeah, it's everyone. She at least heard it. I go, and my parents are like, oh, you're being. You can't say anything to Jared. I'm like, you didn't think that that's.

[B]

Your aunt thought it was rude too, thankfully.

[A]

And then Emily goes, no, that was absolutely crazy. And I was like, finally, right? Someone's here to see what. I'm not trying to make this a mean thing. Like, I. I didn't want. She could have.

[B]

The way you're describing, it sounds very rude.

[A]

You think I'm lying? What are you on my parents side? Let's play some red flag. Deal breaker. This is the game sweeping the country. You're dating someone. One thing happens. It is either a red flag, you see it and you keep going, or it's a deal breaker, you ended sight unseen. You ready?

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

J and J. Feather. Feather. Thanks for being the best part of my commute all these years at my best friend. At my friend's bachelorette party this weekend, we had a conversation that needs your input. The bride mentioned that the groom is looking for a new Cologne. And the bride loved the cologne of her ex. She was unsure if she should suggest the same cologne to her soon to be husband. The bridesmaids were split on if this is acceptable or not. Would you have to tell your husband that your ex wore it? So, red flagger, deal breaker. Your partner wants you to use the same cologne or perfume as your ex. Thanks for all you do. Smells before wedding bells. What do you think?

[B]

This is fine to me, right? Yeah. I don't think, first of all, I wouldn't say that. I don't think that'd be like that woman coming up to you at the beach, right?

[A]

There'd be like, you don't have to say, here's an.

[B]

I bought you a new cologne. My ex used to wear it. Very unnecessary. But is there, is it an issue? You, you enjoy the scent. You're putting it on the new person you're dating. I would do that.

[A]

So I'm with you. I think the way this is told, if my fiance bought me cologne and they were like, I really. It's all in how they serve it, right? Hey, this an ex, a guy, a data used to wear this. And it really like, I like the smell. I think it would smell amazing on you. See how you're like kind of selling that? See how you're like, some people were never made to be in sales.

[B]

You think they should be telling, though?

[A]

I used to date a guy who. This smell just always like made me think it would be really good on you. Like, I wouldn't be. Want to be caught in the lie. I don't think a lot of men are going to ask the question, well, where'd you find this cologne? Like, right? Tell me the whole story behind it. I don't think he'll, he'll ask that. So, like, that's the love. That's the luck of being a woman in this scenario.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think roles reversed if I looked at a woman I was getting married to and I was like, yeah, this woman that I used to date, I just, her smell stuck with me years later.

[B]

And I bought you this.

[A]

I got you the same perfume. I don't think it works.

[B]

I wouldn't say it. I. But I wouldn't be offended if someone got me a perfume that they liked.

[A]

How'd you know to get it? I don't even know how I went to.

[B]

I went and I. And I, I sent, tested a lot of them and I just really loved this one.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I thought you would love it too.

[A]

I thought you would really.

[B]

I don't think relationships need to be completely honest about all things.

[A]

No, I'm. I'm with you. If you are gonna say it's all in how you say it. If a woman said to me, oh, I dated this guy, and he smelled so sex.

[B]

Incredible.

[A]

Oh, my God. And the sex. Sex. So do you want to wear this cologne? Like, I would be like, yeah. No.

[B]

I mean, there's so many versions of that. Like, if you went to a restaurant with someone with your ex that you really liked, and you go there with the new person, like, that's fine. Would you need to say, I love this restaurant. I went there with my. My ex all the time. Like, you don't need to say that.

[A]

Well, again, to go back to the woman on the beach, there are ways to say things that make people feel good, and it's like, there's also ways they say they. There's ways to say things.

[B]

Food was great. Company Stank.

[A]

Right. Well, you could also. You're being. You're. You're kind of trying to take them down a notch. I've. You told. Told stories to my girlfriend now that included other women that I'm like, I could leave that out. Yeah. The heart of the story is what I wanted to get at.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, it wasn't. But I would feel that adding in this other element of. Oh, and I was with this. It just takes a story in a direction that I'm not even looking to go. That's not why I'm telling it to her. And if I do include that other person that was in that story, what am I trying to get at?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right. You know, that's true.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Let's do another one.

[B]

Okay. Hey, jj, red flag. Deal breaker. Came to mind after your Jared meets the parents for the first time episode where you talked about paternity leave.

[A]

Okay. People were seemingly upset about my opinion on paternity leave. I don't think it was taken with the intent I gave it.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Because I. I. The idea that I don't think any man should paternity leave is, like, crazy. That's not how I've spoken about any issue on this show.

[B]

If you need me.

[A]

Need. If. If I have to join a team, then I would. My response to you is, why do you need me on a team?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I.

[B]

To validate their own opinion.

[A]

Right. The paternity leave thing, to me is way more gray than the.

[B]

Oh, it's very great.

[A]

Would allow you to believe. I think the way a man gets looked at and the privilege of it all.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

There's a money thing in this. Like the person who's taking leave from their job at Google with, you know, again, that's what we said.

[B]

I said you work for yourself. It's. The stakes are much higher.

[A]

Right, Listen, if a comedian cancels a weekend cuz they got sick, I'm like, what loser? Right? No, I'm like, you must not real. You did that. You must not have been able to spo speak. And if they, then anyone can go, well, they're protecting the other people because they don't want them to get sick. I would go, okay, well I think it'd be more opinion that I can't deny. But I would also look at the comedian different. I'd be like, they're not really that into doing comedy. Well, they might be life and death thing to me.

[B]

They might be protecting themselves from putting on a bad performance that's not doing great. They don't feel great.

[A]

That could be true. I wouldn't, I don't know those people. Yeah, I don't know from those.

[B]

The hardest working man in America.

[A]

There's a comedian, Pete Lee, who is, was fantastic. Everyone should follow Pete Lee. He is one of the best joke writers there is. He's unbelievable. He had to cancel a weekend for getting sick. I was like, are you serious? And he was like, I haven't done it in. He's like, I've been doing comedy 25 years. He's like, I've never canceled. He was like. I was like, you must have been so. He was like, yeah, I've never been sicker in my entire life.

[B]

I mean if someone is like has like a stomach virus or something, like would you prefer them to go on stage?

[A]

I'm not saying I prefer. I'm saying I can't believe it. It. Okay, like it's not prefer or not.

[B]

I'm just saying maybe you've never been really sick.

[A]

Maybe I haven't.

[B]

Have you ever had like a stomach bug?

[A]

I have one every day of my life. You should see the, you see. Have you ever had like a painting?

[B]

Have you ever been so sick that like the idea that, that you would go to work is crazy?

[A]

No, never.

[B]

You got a good immune system.

[A]

I, I just it to me again, I love what I do. I, you know, so I'm not saying I. Listen, I don't know. I, I just, just I, I've never been a sick guy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I just, I've, I don't take a lot of medication. I take one, I take three medic Three. Three medications.

[B]

What are they?

[A]

I take a multivitamin. Okay. Cholesterol medication.

[B]

Take a multivitamin. Like a Flintstones one.

[A]

The Flintstones Gummy. I take a D. Vitamin D. Tablet it.

[B]

Oh, why?

[A]

I was told to. Okay, Wegovy.

[B]

Okay. That's four medications. Okay, Nice.

[A]

And a little bit of sun.

[B]

Sun is vitamin D. I got a lot more. You got a lot of vitamin D.

[A]

A lot of D. All right.

[B]

Well, that's an interesting.

[A]

I just. Not a lot of Tylenol. I don't take a lot. You know, like if I have a headache, I, I don't think to take a tylenol.

[B]

Are you RFK Jr?

[A]

I guess I did eat a raccoon's penis the other day.

[B]

There you go. So you're in line.

[A]

Yeah. I thought it was a sausage.

[B]

I think if you had ever felt really sick, you might feel differently.

[A]

Maybe again. I'm not.

[B]

You're privileged. You and your immune system are so privileged.

[A]

Listen, I'm not trying to say sick people are weaker. I'm just saying comedians.

[B]

You're just saying I would never do it. And if you do it, I look at you differently.

[A]

I know stand up comics are a certain type.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm speaking specifically to stand up comic comics. And. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know how this makes me sound, but I, I'm okay with it.

[B]

No, I, I think it's good.

[A]

People are gonna love it. To me, the, the, the. This is kind of the same thing as the parental or paternity leave, right? Not all paternity leaves are the same.

[B]

I agree. Well, that's my. I agree with that sentiment. And I think every situation is different. Every work situation, every partner situation is different. But let's. Anyway, let's get into it. I'm in Canada where parents can share up to 18 months of leave. That's a good amount though. In my circles, it's usually the mom taking about 12 months and the dad a few weeks. That is a lot of maternity leave. Wow. This actually became a deal breaker in my marriage. In my late 20s, my career was moving quickly and I was earning significantly more than my then husband, who was a teacher with more flexibility but lower earning trajectory. When we started talking about kids, I didn't see a way to take a year off without seriously derailing my career year. I suggested we split leave or have him take most of it so we could both stay aligned with our goals. He saw it as humiliating and said it would make him look bad socially and that I was selfish for even suggesting it. That disagreement dragged on for about a year and ultimately contributed to us separating. Now that I'm dating again, I tell friends that I'd need a partner who's at least open to splitting paternal leave. They think I'm being too picky and I'm triggered by my ex. Or that I'll change my mind once I have kids. But I see it as a partnership issue. If we can't even fairly negotiate that, what are we doing? So I'm curious. Red flag or deal breaker? Your partner won't even consider taking parental leave when both parents are eligible. Sincerely, A We both made this baby, we both take leave batch.

[A]

See, it's funny. Like, even in this scenario, my opinion has changed. Like if. If a man said it's humiliating and that's why he's not taking parental leave, that's like a loser move. Yeah, like I'm not for that.

[B]

It's be right if the. The reason he won't do it is because it's humiliating.

[A]

That's crazy. Especially when the family will be better off considering her pay and his.

[B]

Why you don't date teachers.

[A]

This is, this is the number one reason. No, I, but I, I think in this scenario where she's like, I'm making more money, this career path I'm on will be changed by this maternity leave when you could do it and are less consequences. Right. As a family unit, we will be better off. But then I'm thinking, I'm like, if I was dating someone and they were questioning me on the parental leave situation, I'd be like, this feels early.

[B]

Well, yeah. Here's the thing about that. I think she's taking. I do agree she's taking this path last fight with her ex where her ex was being losery. I agree with her and sort of projecting it into this all or nothing thing when again I think she needs to look at it as like a nuanced thing. I don't even think it's something you could reasonably really discuss that far ahead without knowing the specifics of the situation at the time you have kids, right?

[A]

Her specifics with the teacher. I agree with her.

[B]

Yes. If it was then right.

[A]

If her sign off. I don't agree with her. Her we both made this baby. We both take leave is a we win together, we lose. I that's not like you two operating as a team that makes sure that you guys are the point of a spear. You know, like you team doesn't mean 5050.

[B]

And I think the Longer term, your relationship you're in and even when you have. When. What I've learned from having kids is that it's not about both people doing an equal amount of every single thing. It's about you working as a team to figure out what your own unique circumstances are and how to optimize for the whole family unit. Which is why I said it's kind of like a business a little bit more. It's not about, like, we're doing this because, like, women and men are equal and they should take equal leave. Like, no. What is our specific scenario as a couple with our own specific jobs and our own, you know, government rules? And how does that play into what makes the most sense for this family? I think to say, like, anyone who I'm eliminating, anyone who doesn't want to split it 50. 50 is also crazy. It's just as crazy as saying, I wouldn't do it because it's humiliating.

[A]

I'm with you. 100. You used a great word, Optimizing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You want the family to be optimized.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If the family can make 50,000 more dollars and be better off as a family because of whatever combination of paternity leave, maternity leave you take, that's the option, right? That's what you do. That's, that's, that's a mathematical equation that I, I, that I would have to have, really, an ego issue.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To go against. And that's what, again, the teacher guy has an ego issue.

[B]

If you married another comedian, right, let's say, and you both worked for yourselves and you both had this situation, like, would your stance still be the same?

[A]

No, no, it would be.

[B]

You would have to just. Right, totally. It would have to be factored into whatever you were doing.

[A]

Right. And, and, or if you married an

[B]

actress or anyone with, like, you know, someone who ran their own business or

[A]

whatever it was, the variables change. And I think, again, the theme of today's episode, if, you know, safety, like, this woman is trying to not get so far ahead that she's in the same position that she was with, with the teacher. Like, she had to separate with her husband. And she's like, well, I don't want to get into that scenario again.

[B]

It's like, well, it wasn't really about the leave. It was about the rigidity and the

[A]

way he looked in it, his own career and how he looked.

[B]

And you, you and you expressing your needs, which he called her selfish.

[A]

Right. I don't really agree with him. So, yeah, we solve dating again, Jordan.

[B]

We did it.

[A]

We did it. We do it every Wednesday and Friday. We'll be back on Friday.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Boom. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone. Paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the last love everything good in this world stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month, of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment. Anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront

[B]

payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] betches.